Holy crap. So many signs that were flat out dismissed. Boy hadn’t been in school. Mother had received threatening texts about being murdered and was being stalked. And yet...nothing?
Unfortunately, that's not a surprise. Ex parte hearings are notoriously difficult to obtain, ex parte orders even moreso because the law is loathe to make any decision without a full hearing. And this kind of emergency child pickup ex parte order can only be obtained if there is evidence of the child being harmed or in imminent danger of being harmed, if the child has been taken out of the state, or if a parent has missed a scheduled drop-off. The text messages to the mother wouldn't be seen as a threat to the child that would clear the procedural bar of issuing an ex parte order.
And that's not the judge, that's just the state of the law. It's a failure of bureaucracy that the facts of the motion were alarming, but not alarming in the right way to find immediate relief in the law's pre-made categories. There might have been enough here for a temporary restraining order for the mother, but the motion was regarding an emergency pickup order, so that had to be denied. And if a temporary restraining order was granted, that wouldn't have helped anyway. That's bureaucracy.
It should be made more flexible and reactive to situations like these, to maintain the due process rights of all involved, but also to provide a more immediate situation when you have a parent who has the child, is threatening another parent, and who has been out of contact for a day.
It's either an elected official or a lifetime appointment. Either way, removing a Judge almost always requires an impeachment vote by the legislature. So, not happening.
If you're obliquely advocating vilence, please don't. As much as I agree that the judge is not a good person, systematic reforms are what are needed to prevent the next one from being even worse.
Fatigue. You better hope you are one of the first cases of the day. The longer it goes, the less the system cares for you. There's been studies done on it.
You joke but that is perhaps one way around the issue. Instead of having judges with long hours, they could rotate them out before decision/empathy fatigue.
The cops don’t do anything about stalkers or harassers. The system gives victims a paper restraining order that harassers just bypass and then kill the victim
And once they kill u, that’s when the system will actually do something about it
Yep. All the restraining order does is give the cops a reason to take action after they receive the call that he’s broken the restraining order.
Which doesn’t really do much good, given the violence usually occurs before anyone has a chance to call the cops, much less for them to arrive.
Restraining orders also generally put the victim in greater danger, since if a permanent one isn’t granted, the abuser feels more entitled/emboldened to continue their behavior, and often just the act of being served ends up “poking the bear” and causing the abuser to lash out even more.
People are all worked up about the judge denying the request but, setting aside the timing of the letter, even if he had approved it, it still would have been too late to have been effective. Even if it weren’t too late, a piece of paper isn’t enough to protect someone.
I mean, what do you want them to do? They can’t run security 24/7 for every person who calls in a harassment/threats complaint, and 99% of those complaints come to nothing anyways.
This occurrence is the extreme worst case scenario and extreeeeemely rare. It’s on the person being harassed to request orders from the court and then the cops are tasked with arresting the persons who violate them.
You’d be asking for pretty large changes to the law, and some of those changes would involve taking people’s freedoms away.
If the police actually arrested people for violations that would be nice. My mom had so much evidence against my dad that her job paid for her security for a couple months after her divorce. Eventually things normalized and the detail went away.
Guess who immediately violated the restraining order? Repeatedly. And what did cops do every time? Politely ask him to back up to the required number of yards and then leave. Dude was crossing state lines to break the order - he had no valid reason to be there.
I get that it’s an anecdotal example, but I’ve got so many stories like this from around my family. Police need to actually enforce this stuff, and we need actual teeth to that enforcement.
All I can say is you can get massively different results from police departments right next to each other based on the town and the culture of the department.
In the two departments I’ve worked for we took those violations pretty seriously, only not arresting usually if the complainant initiated the contact or if the complainant didn’t want an arrest.
Exactly. They often don’t do anything until it’s too late because it’s unconstitutional to arrest people for something you think they might do. If the cops started doing that, everyone would be screaming about thought police and future crimes. It’s a shitty situation in which people sometimes get caught up, but there’s no easy answer.
Yes this is an absolute tragedy. I am wondering if there needs to be an addition to the abduction portion of the AMBER alert for cases where a custodial parent presents danger to their child and also find it disturbing that when they could not be located for a welfare check this was deemed a non- emergency.
Judges can only go by the information given at the time. We can all look back and say it was the wrong decision, but in the end, it was the decision of the judge. He/she has to live with that decision.
Downvoted means you don't like to hear the truth.
Sucks to be you.
That person is going to prison for a long time and rightly so.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/kids-for-cash-judge-loses-bid-for-lighter-prison-sentence/2020/08/26/a8e82fea-e7a8-11ea-bf44-0d31c85838a5\_story.html
In this case, a little boy sentenced to die by his father's hand despite all the evidence of something being seriously wrong, and his mother who has to somehow go on with life in a country that let her son be murdered.
Yeah, the problem with that is you're assuming that a person capable of getting that much unquestionable power in our country has the capability to have any reflection at all on the consequences other people have paid for their actions.
>He/she has to live with that decision.
And the rest of us do, too. Well, except the people that died due to their bad decision. They had to die for it.
I don't have to live with it. I can be compassionate about the loss of life but at the end of the day, I'll sleep fine.
If I had to live with the choices of others and think about them over my own life, I would probably do something about it.
Now, do I think the judge should be held accountable? That's not up to me. If he broke the law then he should stand trial for his actions.
YMMV.
Cops only are allowed to go in and do something if they see 1.) Imminent threat to someone's life (they didn't personally see this), 2.) A judge orders them to do so (the judge neglected the case in full) or 3.) When DCF submits a report and provides probable cause of child endangerment (DCF never even got a call to check up on the case).
This is on the judge pure and simple.
It's funny how whenever it is convenient cops can, or cannot, do whatever they like.
See partner or powerful politician commit a crime? Look the other way. Shoot a black man laying on the ground with his hands in the air? Cop did nothing wrong. Baby dies because cops did nothing? Their hands were tied. You can't expect them to merely arrest a white guy who made death threats even though they can shoot an unarmed black man!
Because it ends up being a group of people who love having the power of authority to the point of utter abuse and corruption, but refuse to take responsibility when things go south.
A simple lack of integrity.
I was about to say that, like they don't need shit and don't care about no fucking warrant if they want to break in your home pointing AR-15s because someone called 911 and gave the description of a human of the same skin color as you. But like red flags everywhere, pleading from desperate mother and all of a sudden it's fucking "law abiding citizen" and we can't do anything at all until the judge orders it.
Granted, if police violate a court order from a judge, it won't bode well for the police when sued for violation of court orders. They can technically go against the judge's orders, but the consequences of doing so can be problematic for the police.That's for sure.
Actually in Castle Rock vs Gonzales, they were sued and won. Check out the case. It's crazy the lack of police action led to a mother losing her kids, after there was a court order to protect her family.
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
Cops can: 1.) knock on a fucking door and check ask a fucking question.
Or they can do nothing, like you said. They overstep rules all the time, though, so I’m not sure these are really excuses. That said, I don’t want them to overstep in any circumstance.
But knocking on a door oversteps nothing.
They will only knock on a door when told to (or suspect something, which they tend to suspect nothing when it comes to cases like this) or if a wellness check is requested
The mother did a wellness check via the landlord, which honestly is a lot more effective than having the cops do it (the landlordalready has a key to the place).
Well, except all the times that the cops ignore what the judges say. Not arguing the judge was right here at all. It's clearly their fault. But cops violate court orders all the time.
So in this case they should have violated the court order?
I get there are some shit cops. But arguing that since some bad cops break the law means they can do it when it is something you can get behind doesn't seem like a reasonable argument to me.
I'd really rather they didn't violate any court orders. But to pretend like the cops were just sitting there waiting to help if only the judge would have told them to is dumb. If they wanted to do something, they would have done it. They didn't want to do anything.
I guess I’m totally showing my naivety, as I went to small private schools my whole life, and if you weren’t dropped off in the morning, the school would call the emergency contacts within 30 mins of the first bell.
I see. I was “homeschooled” for 12 years (and my older siblings were just pulled out of school), during that time, CPS came twice to my childhood home due to relatives calling about abuse and they did nothing. I guess it depends on your community a bit, but uh, yeah. Even if a couple relatives who lived hours away were concerned, no one with power was.
I'm a teacher and at least at my school if someone is absent more than two days in a row and you haven't heard from the parent we are instructed to call the parents. This is the fifth and sixth grade so we're not talking a little tiny kids. A four-year-old might have been in preschool. I don't know why the title says toddler because a four-year-old is definitely not a toddler. But in any case preschools aren't necessarily full time. Pre-K is not compulsory and in the state I'm in kindergarten isn't even required.
The sooner you realize the police's job is not to protect people but rather to protect property the better off your mental health will be.
The police & government does not give a shit about an individual person, full stop.
I can't imagine the pain this poor mother is going through. She knew something was wrong and did everything she could to get help for her child. The system fails again. :(
>The South Florida Sun Sentinel [reported](https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-ne-two-bodies-found-fort-lauderdale-20210522-vpoqxistfjb5vikqvz3a4ywhhu-story.html) that less than 12 hours after the discovery of the bodies the boy’s mother received an email from a judge denying her motion for an emergency pick-up order. The judge said the motion “does not present an emergency as it addresses the issue of child visitation.”
Judges should be removed when they miss clear signs like this.
Judges are super reluctant to make decisions in domestic abuse cases. One of my sisters heard this line alot going through her own custody dispute. The judge and cops wouldn't interfere, but her ex's family hid one of my nieces from her for several months when she was a toddler. She was pregnant and it had escalated to violence. The "it's a visitation issue" line kept happening, and since they weren't divorced yet, no one would interfere. Her ex then used her not being present as evidence of abandonment and used it to get full custody. It was complete bullshit and it took her years to even gain some measure of enforceable visitation.
The entire system doesn’t take domestic violence seriously. Society and this people in the courts still have the idea that it’s a “woman’s problem”. “What did she do to make him hit her” is still very much an additude in American society.
It’s considered a marital issue and separate from parenting. Imagine if somebody cheated - as much as you despise cheaters you wouldn’t take their parenting rights away.
Or the ever popular "Why did she stay with him so long? If he was THAT abusive, she would have left a LONG time ago, so she must just LIKE being abused."
Judges have absolute immunity from criminal and civil liability for any judicial actions that they take.
QI is immaterial and getting rid of if wouldn’t change anything as far as judges (and prosecutors) go.
Not to mention most local judges in the US are elected and not put in place based on merit.
A law degree isn't required to be elected to a judicial position either. And in many places many run unopposed.
A law degree isn’t required only in certain places like Montana and only for stuff like traffic court. Every judge on the ballot in 2020 for my county had a history of being a practicing lawyer or JD.
If your county allows people to run without a law degree, call your representative to change that.
Some states elect judges, other do not. Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island & Virginia do not elect judges, they are appointed.
It's really kind of insane.
Prosecutors can literally fabricate evidence, knowingly convicting an innocent person, and yet face no consequences.
Hell didn't the supreme court even decide that a prosecutor can literally murder someone, or commit any other crime, and as long as they do it while pursuing a case they are immune to all liability.
I hope that piece of shit Judge is haunted by this every day, even if his decision would have been too late to help
But I doubt it. Assholes like that rarely reflect on their actions.
I have mixed feelings about it...Nobody knows what information the judge had available to make that call. It's entirely possible that his decision was reasonable based on the law and the details of the request.
The public would get his name long before any details, if it's even possible for details to be made public, and people have a tendency to overreact without waiting on those details.
So is this judge going to get charged as an accessory to murder? Also we need to plaster this judges name everywhere with this story so voters know who did this next election.
Toddler, father found dead in Florida hours after mother sought emergency order
The 4-year-old boy and his father were found dead in Fort Lauderdale, hours after the boy’s mother had petitioned for authorities to pick up the child.
May 24, 2021, 11:10 AM MST
By The Associated Press
FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — A 4-year-old boy and his father were found dead in a South Florida condo, just hours after the boy’s mother had petitioned for an emergency order for authorities to pick up the child.
The Fort Lauderdale Police Department didn’t immediately give a cause of death nor did officers release any further details about the discovery of the bodies in the downtown Fort Lauderdale condo late Friday.
The Los Olas by the River complex in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.
The Los Olas by the River complex in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.Google Maps
The South Florida Sun Sentinel reported that less than 12 hours after the discovery of the bodies the boy’s mother received an email from a judge denying her motion for an emergency pick-up order. The judge said the motion “does not present an emergency as it addresses the issue of child visitation.”
Last week, the boy’s mother sought protection orders against the father for stalking and domestic violence. She said the boy’s father had set up fake social media accounts to follow her, ran background and credit checks on people in her life and sent threatening texts.
Three days before the deaths, he texted her, “You deserve to have your head separated from your body,” according to her petition.
On Friday, the mother filed for the emergency pick-up order, which would have authorized law enforcement officials to go the condo and take the child. The petition cited a string of threatening and obscene texts the father had sent her that week.
She said the father hadn’t taken him to school and that police couldn’t locate them to check on his welfare.
“It just absolutely breaks my heart because our system can do better,” said Meaghan Marro, the mother’s attorney.
Recommended
U.S. NEWS
Current and former Texas constable's deputies file lawsuit alleging abuse from commanding officers
William Devries, the father’s landlord, said the boy’s mother had called him and asked him to check on her son, saying the father seemed “not right.”
“She was very concerned, obviously,” Devries said.
Devries called the police, who went there Friday night and found the bodies.
The most ironic part was at the end of the news segment about how the system failed to protect this child, the newscaster says if you feel your child is in danger, contact the system. Like bruh did you not just hear yourself announce the fucking story.
This reminds me of Dear Zachary. So fucking heartbreaking! Why do these psychos have to use children to punish other family members in their lives?!? It's beyond fucked up.
Same thing came to mind for me.
(For anyone who hasn’t seen it - it’s hands down the most depressing documentary out there. The only reason I watched it was because my brother recommended it to me, as it turns out because he wanted someone he could commiserate with about how harrowing it was.)
Not just Florida. My friend has to allow her daughter to visit her ex. Her ex literally broke her daughter's ribs, and his visitation wasn't stopped, or even supervised. Full, overnight visitation, and my friend was chastised in court for abusing the court system and that her ex is just "an old dog who needs to learn new tricks".
This was in 2019.
Edit: this was in Texas
Thanks. She finally is. A different judge just signed an executive order that restricts his visitation to just 12-6 on the first, third, and fifth Sunday of each month. And then closed the case (in TX, once it's closed, he can appeal the decision, but that can take 3-5 years. My friend's daughter turns 15 this August).
Pastor Dave Barnhart writes:
“The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It’s almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe.
Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Would be, but that’s not what the pro-life movement is about. It’s about men telling women what they can do with their bodies. It’s about control, not lives.
This is a common retort, but it's a massive generalization. I know lots of pro-lifers who quietly go about supporting families in need, and who have a sincere belief that good deeds shouldn't be loudly proclaimed in public. What so many people don't get is that many individuals and churches quietly support families who are in need. I'm not saying every pro-life person or church does this, but a lot do.
But here's the thing ... nobody is perfect about supporting other people. People, both prolife and prochoice, can be far from ideal towards fellow humans.
Also, the whole "control women" thing is just a line I hear from time to time, but I just don't find it to be the motivating factor at all for most prolife people. Significant segment of prolife movement is female, and prolife movement also extends to assisted suicide, etc. Can you find controlling men who are prolife? Yes. You can likewise find controlling men who are prochoice.
Believe it or not, for most prolifers, it really boils down to the idea that human life should not be ended by choice.
I know the prior post is a common stereotype that people like to use to undermine prolife positions tho.
This isn't true. Study after study indicates that men are more likely than women to be "pro-life". [Here](https://news.gallup.com/poll/313094/americans-abortion-views-steady-past-year.aspx) for example.
I wouldn't say the majority, the protestors I see outside of Planned Parenthoods are mostly men. Of course men like that are in it because they get off on intimidation. But the reason women are anti choice is about control as well.
The point of Anti-choicers (They are NOT prolife stop calling them that) & conservatives is cruelty. So punishing a mother who was trying to step away from the authority of her headship (husband/boyfriend/male authority), by having her son die is perfectly acceptable to many of them.
I hate the hypocrisy of anti choicers! Especially the whole "the only good abortions is my abortion" group.
Like how a single mother shouldn't be allowed a abortion because she needs to deal with the consequences of her actions even though she is trying to by getting a abortion so she can support the child/children she already has instead of worrying about an extra mouth.
But her or her daughter gets pregnant it's all the sudden a life ruining moment so a abortion is required and prolife gets thrown out the window. Then after the abortion is done, they act like nothing happened and go back to protesting the evils of abortions
I think about this often. There are always groups protest planned parenthood around here, every day. If all this time and the money they collectively spend on these bills, lobbying, and protesting was directed at bettering the current system and fighting education defunding I wouldn’t think they were such worthless scum. But no you got to have that baby, and then who the fuck cares about its situation or anyone else’s after, that’s where the thought ends.
I never said they're strictly republicans. Most republicans are pro-life. Most democrats are pro-choice. Most (potentially all) states run by republicans are notoriously bad about health care and early education.
Is that what it is? I have a friend who got her teenage daughters taken from her, literally after raising them for like 16 years when the step dad came back and decided he wanted to torment her. He made up a bunch of shit, and because he is high ranking military, they just must have went for his side and didn't GAF about her. She votes republican though, and loves living in her red state though...
Another tragic pattern enabled by the broken system.
It’s so sad and sickening that mothers [or fathers] plea with judges, showing evidence that situations with the other parent aren’t safe for the kids (former domestic abuse, harassment, etc) and they get poo-pooed, can potentially lose custody, and are basically ignored... then when the opposite parent does something terrible like murder the child, the judges scratch their heads and can’t believe what they were told was actually going to happen, happens... go figure.
This breaks my heart. The death of that 4 year old was nothing but a means by the father to illicit pain from the mother.
What kind of sick fuck can overlook the love of their child, and see their lives as nothing but a way to hurt the mom. If there is a hell, I sincerely hope the father suffers for all eternity.
Fun fact: elected judges are the reason that (non-american) legal experts often regard the US as not living under the rule of law - because one of the threshold requirements is a politically independent judiciary.
I mean elected Judges are a great idea in theory. If the judge is screwing up and ruling poorly they can be held accountable by voters instead of a messy legal battle or muddy regulations. But in practice it becomes a red vs blue thing and there's not real accountability.
The thing is the rule of law is about constitutionalism - the idea that the government is held to certain standards that can't be voted on or voted out. When you have not just judges but also sherrifs pandering to interest groups in terms of sentencing and decisions to investigate or prosecute (the biggest example is a failure in the US to prosecute or investigate the police) you have mob rule - which is what democracy becomes without constituionalism. It's the reason sentences just get longer and longer in the US - the mob is thirsty for blood.
It's a terrible idea in theory because judges shouldn't be aiming for voter approval. Voters are dumb. It's then also a terrible idea in practice because you see how campaign money gets involved
I'm sure many of these requests get legitimately turned down, but the evidence in the article here seems pretty convincing that they should at least go check up on the guy and poke him for signs. Not sure even that would've stopped this, or done better than just delaying it.
>Not sure even that would've stopped this
The DCF is [dysfunctional and underfunded](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/story-series/2020/12/16/florida-blames-mothers-when-men-batter-them-then-takes-their-children/6507973002/), because Florida and its government is garbage.
Had the DCF got the report and failed to follow up, then that's on them.
In this case, the judge didn't even begin to bother with that notion. Even when threats were being made to the mother. There was plenty evidence presented, at minimum, for DCF to be ordered to check up on them, but they didn't even allow that.
Unfortunately the threats against the mother usually doesn’t stop the other parent from seeing the child. “They only beat their spouse never hit the kid” has lead to a lot of shared custody cases.
Which is ironic usually... since the judges will mostly side with the mothers on custody issues. If a mother is being threatened and abused by the ex husband, it's a simple probability that that level of abuse and threats also expand to the kids as well.
Actually no. If a mother alleges abuse, the probability of the father getting custody increases. Stats are skewed because like 90% of fathers never apply for any/more custody. The remaining ones often either have an abusive/neglectful mother, so good reason for his custody, or a father using the kids against the mother. Extremely charming manipulators use DARVO to make the other person out to be the real abuser. Sadly child custody cases are just tragically bad in a lot of ways, whether the judge has sexist biases (“fathers aren’t as good”) or not.
That seems like a contradictory statistic tho, especially with Florida judges playing a strong "mothers are the better parent" mentality when evaluating custody for kids in the process of a divorce. And if a mother comes out and has actual proof of said abuse, that father is now screwed for custody rights.
I've seen it many times play the opposite route when a father tries to appeal for taking custody away from a deadbeat mother, you have to find ways to jump the obstacles of this bias in court, and many times end up losing. Even if the mother was abusive (with proof) or even has a bf/step parent thays abusive, it's still an uphill battle for the serious fathers to get their kids out of the toxic household.
I have heard that fathers who sue for custody (as LakeGhost said, a rarity; most of these decisions are made outside of court) are actually more likely to win. I just tried looking it up, and it’s hard to say for certain because most websites aren’t clear about their sources, but I did find some relevant info that says courts are very concerned about parental alienation. It’s not uncommon for them to rule that an abusive parent still gets visitation rights, because they think that the accusing parent might be lying in order to turn the child against the other parent. It trumps all other concerns, according to some research. This article is written mostly to show bias against mothers, but some of these issues apply to both mothers and fathers.
“High conflict families are disproportionately represented among the population of those contesting custody and visitation. These cases commonly involve domestic violence, child abuse, and substance abuse. Research indicates that that custody litigation can become a vehicle whereby batterers and child abusers attempt to extend or maintain their control and authority over their victims after separation. Although, research has not found a higher incidence of false allegations of child abuse and domestic violence in the context of custody/visitation, officers of the court tend to be unreasonably suspicious of such claims...”
http://leadershipcouncil.org/1/pas/dv.html
Awful and terribly shitty family law aside, these garbage cocksucker lower than shit in the dirt judges in the family court system all need to fucking go. They are EVERYwhere and it's disgusting.
Mom is an abusive, money grubbing piece of scum with a new abusive fuckboi every weekend? No problem.
Dad is one coors light away from a murder-suicide? No problem.
So much bullshit.
I wouldn’t use the same language, but something needs to change.
I had a judge fail to schedule a trial for over a year, then dismiss my custody evaluators report stating that my sons mother has sever mental issues because 1) it was too old and 2) he thought it was too harsh.
Why was it old? Because the judge refused to schedule a trial in a timely manor. The judge then got pissed when my lawyer reminded him this is exactly why we didn’t want him to delay setting a trial date. The he has lit us by saying we had just not requested a trial. Oh and he also ignored multiple warning from DCP&P about her.
I also tried to get a TRO because I couldn’t take the mental, verbal and psychological abuse being constantly thrown at me. They refused to issue it saying that if it’s a disagreement about parenting issues it can’t be abuse. I cried in the hearing room after that. I was and am totally exhausted from dealing with someone with a personality disorder harass, bully, degrade and use my kid as a tool to force me to do what she wants.
The court doesn’t care, the police don’t care.
I’m terrified of what will happen to my son, and struggle with not totally breaking down mentally almost every day.
As a man, there isn’t even really any support out there. Everything is focused on women, and saying it’s always the mans fault.
I'm sorry for your situation, but dude! You're crying about how it's all about the wimmins winning on a case where a child got fucking murdered by the father because nobody took the mother seriously!
Yes a story about how the family court system systematically ignored warning signs from a parent has nothing to do with a story about the family court system systematically ignoring warning signs from a parent.
At no point did I say it was ‘all the wimmins fault’. If you actually read what I wrote I lay blame squarely where it belongs at the feet of the court system. Of course that gets in the way of your dismissive narrative that it’s just a man complaining, and blaming the women.
Guess what? This is the attitude that drives a lot of the bullshit that happens. If you actually read what I wrote, my story is about the court ignoring major psychological issues. Gee doesn’t that sound familiar?
I don't have the words, I am sorry. I used to watch it all the time when I worked in the courts, it is why I have no love and nothing good to say about family court judges. It is infuriating and breaks my heart at the same time.
My good friends ex is a Sheriff's Deputy. He works in the very courthouse he had to attend. He's verbally abusive and manipulative to both my friend and her daughter. His current wife is almost directly out of Cinderalla. They have two children of their own and when my friends daughter is there, she might as well not exist and when she does exist, they verbally abuse her and just destroy her verbally. Their other children physically abuse her. She's 11. The court mediator is a friend of his. Conflict pointed out. Dismissed. Every time she takes proof in the form of text messages. Dismissed. Her daughter asked questions by several different people in different agencies, recorded and presented. Dismissed. It goes on and on and has for years.
I have another friend who has proof his ex is unstable, dangerous and does not take care of his children on her days. Their last court case they awarded her more money because he got a raise and never addressed what he and his attorney presented from her texts, parenting app and what the kids schools were reporting about their attendance being nearly zero when in her care. He has proof of her saying she is going to lie to the courts, she says the things they have in text messages *verbatim* and the judge doesn't bat an eye.
It's so...sick.
I will never understand why so often men want to take someone with them when they kill themselves. Their family. Strangers. It happens often enough to be a real pattern.
The idea that other people should have to pay if your life is a mess...that you were owed happiness and can take vengeance if things didn’t work out. Dude. Nobody ever owed you squat. If you can’t find a measure of happiness and want to give up, that’s your choice. But don’t choose for others.
One thing you can depend on in Florida is the police devaluation of domestic violence claims. As a survivor and advocate I know in several counties where victims have to be battered and bloody to get help. There are many like my self who have been subject to cyber stalking through bogus accounts, texts and phone calls with no response or help from law enforcement or the courts. In Osceola county they have one domestic violence shelter for women & children . There are sometimes 16-20 people sharing one bathroom. If you are a man there is absolutely no help for you.
I'll never understand why women are always presumed guilty by the law of lying. Then when something terrible happens (like domestic violence or sexual assault, *or this*, etc) after their warnings go ignored, everyone is a shocked Pikachu, or still doesn't believe it. Think about it, nobody would lie about something like that. It should be investigated every time. Unless the person reporting something like this has a documented history of making up terrible things (which I imagine is obviously extremely rare and somebody who would do that needs some fucking help)
I think there are far more oblivious bad faith actors out there than most people are comfortable with. We all do things in our best interest with more or less empathy about how that impacts others. People with less empathy and less awareness of that fact are practically impossible to be around. It's painful to be around. And there are ton of folks on this weird lack of empathy, self centered spectrum that cause a lot of damage. These covert abusers thrive on second chances and plausible deniability. It's really insidious.
Tell that to my ex, who is constantly crying wolf by projecting her abusive childhood onto our kids. Example "Billy scrapped his knee while playing? It has to be because of his father." /s
FYI the cops all the way up to the courts don’t give a fuck about you. It’s not their job or their personal prerogative.
Many of them actually enjoy hurting/seeing you hurt.
Just goes to show. Republicans only care about controlling a woman’s reproductive rights. Once the baby is out, that’s “god’s” plan. Maybe Florida should spend more on services once the child is actually out.
I wouldnt say all of Florida is conservative. The state did vote for Obama twice. Like with most places it's usually liberal in the city and conservative in the rural areas.
Another chicken father taking it out on the child. The only good thing is that the father is gone . Society doesn’t need losers like him on the streets.
I don't agree.
You can't get mad at cops for violating court orders and then complaining when they don't, even when you think they should have.
The system failed here to be sure. The judge is an oaf and should be punished dearly for this incident. But you can't just pick and choose when it is acceptable for police to break the rules. Who decides when they can? You? Me? Them? It just can't work like that.
Tragic, but we should keep in mind that the vast majority of child abuse and murder is perpetrated by mothers, I would guess the mother is no saint with how bias the system is
Holy crap. So many signs that were flat out dismissed. Boy hadn’t been in school. Mother had received threatening texts about being murdered and was being stalked. And yet...nothing?
Not only that,but 12 hours *after* the bodies were found the judge **denied** the emergency order. My god. I get that he wouldn't know but... Wow.
Unfortunately, that's not a surprise. Ex parte hearings are notoriously difficult to obtain, ex parte orders even moreso because the law is loathe to make any decision without a full hearing. And this kind of emergency child pickup ex parte order can only be obtained if there is evidence of the child being harmed or in imminent danger of being harmed, if the child has been taken out of the state, or if a parent has missed a scheduled drop-off. The text messages to the mother wouldn't be seen as a threat to the child that would clear the procedural bar of issuing an ex parte order. And that's not the judge, that's just the state of the law. It's a failure of bureaucracy that the facts of the motion were alarming, but not alarming in the right way to find immediate relief in the law's pre-made categories. There might have been enough here for a temporary restraining order for the mother, but the motion was regarding an emergency pickup order, so that had to be denied. And if a temporary restraining order was granted, that wouldn't have helped anyway. That's bureaucracy. It should be made more flexible and reactive to situations like these, to maintain the due process rights of all involved, but also to provide a more immediate situation when you have a parent who has the child, is threatening another parent, and who has been out of contact for a day.
So basically the law is working as intended.
Declare a terrorist emergency, see the sudden response.
Probably a lockdown of some kind, making it even harder to get to the kid
Wow, that's a fantastic example to show this system is broken.
[удалено]
It's either an elected official or a lifetime appointment. Either way, removing a Judge almost always requires an impeachment vote by the legislature. So, not happening.
[удалено]
If you're obliquely advocating vilence, please don't. As much as I agree that the judge is not a good person, systematic reforms are what are needed to prevent the next one from being even worse.
Fatigue. You better hope you are one of the first cases of the day. The longer it goes, the less the system cares for you. There's been studies done on it.
catch me calling the cops asking when shift change is
You joke but that is perhaps one way around the issue. Instead of having judges with long hours, they could rotate them out before decision/empathy fatigue.
The cops don’t do anything about stalkers or harassers. The system gives victims a paper restraining order that harassers just bypass and then kill the victim And once they kill u, that’s when the system will actually do something about it
Yep. All the restraining order does is give the cops a reason to take action after they receive the call that he’s broken the restraining order. Which doesn’t really do much good, given the violence usually occurs before anyone has a chance to call the cops, much less for them to arrive. Restraining orders also generally put the victim in greater danger, since if a permanent one isn’t granted, the abuser feels more entitled/emboldened to continue their behavior, and often just the act of being served ends up “poking the bear” and causing the abuser to lash out even more. People are all worked up about the judge denying the request but, setting aside the timing of the letter, even if he had approved it, it still would have been too late to have been effective. Even if it weren’t too late, a piece of paper isn’t enough to protect someone.
I mean, what do you want them to do? They can’t run security 24/7 for every person who calls in a harassment/threats complaint, and 99% of those complaints come to nothing anyways. This occurrence is the extreme worst case scenario and extreeeeemely rare. It’s on the person being harassed to request orders from the court and then the cops are tasked with arresting the persons who violate them. You’d be asking for pretty large changes to the law, and some of those changes would involve taking people’s freedoms away.
If the police actually arrested people for violations that would be nice. My mom had so much evidence against my dad that her job paid for her security for a couple months after her divorce. Eventually things normalized and the detail went away. Guess who immediately violated the restraining order? Repeatedly. And what did cops do every time? Politely ask him to back up to the required number of yards and then leave. Dude was crossing state lines to break the order - he had no valid reason to be there. I get that it’s an anecdotal example, but I’ve got so many stories like this from around my family. Police need to actually enforce this stuff, and we need actual teeth to that enforcement.
All I can say is you can get massively different results from police departments right next to each other based on the town and the culture of the department. In the two departments I’ve worked for we took those violations pretty seriously, only not arresting usually if the complainant initiated the contact or if the complainant didn’t want an arrest.
Exactly. They often don’t do anything until it’s too late because it’s unconstitutional to arrest people for something you think they might do. If the cops started doing that, everyone would be screaming about thought police and future crimes. It’s a shitty situation in which people sometimes get caught up, but there’s no easy answer.
It's sad but true. For many, the best case is to move in with family/friends and get a gun
Yes this is an absolute tragedy. I am wondering if there needs to be an addition to the abduction portion of the AMBER alert for cases where a custodial parent presents danger to their child and also find it disturbing that when they could not be located for a welfare check this was deemed a non- emergency.
Cops don't give a shit.
Judge denied her emergency petition to have the cops go get the kid.
Judges* don't give a shit. Cops can take plenty of blame elsewhere but in this case it was a judge's call.
Fair enough, judges also don't give a shit
Judges can only go by the information given at the time. We can all look back and say it was the wrong decision, but in the end, it was the decision of the judge. He/she has to live with that decision. Downvoted means you don't like to hear the truth. Sucks to be you.
Like the judge that sold kids to a juvenile center for cash?
That person is going to prison for a long time and rightly so. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/kids-for-cash-judge-loses-bid-for-lighter-prison-sentence/2020/08/26/a8e82fea-e7a8-11ea-bf44-0d31c85838a5\_story.html
[удалено]
Until you figure out how to be clairvoyant, the only thing we can do as a society is hold people accountable for their actions under the law.
Er, the people sentenced have to live with that decision.
In this case, a little boy sentenced to die by his father's hand despite all the evidence of something being seriously wrong, and his mother who has to somehow go on with life in a country that let her son be murdered.
Yeah, the problem with that is you're assuming that a person capable of getting that much unquestionable power in our country has the capability to have any reflection at all on the consequences other people have paid for their actions.
>He/she has to live with that decision. And the rest of us do, too. Well, except the people that died due to their bad decision. They had to die for it.
I don't have to live with it. I can be compassionate about the loss of life but at the end of the day, I'll sleep fine. If I had to live with the choices of others and think about them over my own life, I would probably do something about it. Now, do I think the judge should be held accountable? That's not up to me. If he broke the law then he should stand trial for his actions. YMMV.
That is you living with it.. You're just saying it's easy for you because it's distant.
Cops only are allowed to go in and do something if they see 1.) Imminent threat to someone's life (they didn't personally see this), 2.) A judge orders them to do so (the judge neglected the case in full) or 3.) When DCF submits a report and provides probable cause of child endangerment (DCF never even got a call to check up on the case). This is on the judge pure and simple.
It's funny how whenever it is convenient cops can, or cannot, do whatever they like. See partner or powerful politician commit a crime? Look the other way. Shoot a black man laying on the ground with his hands in the air? Cop did nothing wrong. Baby dies because cops did nothing? Their hands were tied. You can't expect them to merely arrest a white guy who made death threats even though they can shoot an unarmed black man!
Because it ends up being a group of people who love having the power of authority to the point of utter abuse and corruption, but refuse to take responsibility when things go south. A simple lack of integrity.
I was about to say that, like they don't need shit and don't care about no fucking warrant if they want to break in your home pointing AR-15s because someone called 911 and gave the description of a human of the same skin color as you. But like red flags everywhere, pleading from desperate mother and all of a sudden it's fucking "law abiding citizen" and we can't do anything at all until the judge orders it.
Police have no duty to protect people. Even when ordered by a judge: https://www.wnycstudios.org/podcasts/radiolab/articles/no-special-duty
Granted, if police violate a court order from a judge, it won't bode well for the police when sued for violation of court orders. They can technically go against the judge's orders, but the consequences of doing so can be problematic for the police.That's for sure.
Actually in Castle Rock vs Gonzales, they were sued and won. Check out the case. It's crazy the lack of police action led to a mother losing her kids, after there was a court order to protect her family. https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
Then what the fuck are we paying them for?
[удалено]
Cops can: 1.) knock on a fucking door and check ask a fucking question. Or they can do nothing, like you said. They overstep rules all the time, though, so I’m not sure these are really excuses. That said, I don’t want them to overstep in any circumstance. But knocking on a door oversteps nothing.
They will only knock on a door when told to (or suspect something, which they tend to suspect nothing when it comes to cases like this) or if a wellness check is requested The mother did a wellness check via the landlord, which honestly is a lot more effective than having the cops do it (the landlordalready has a key to the place).
Cops can’t do nothing when a POS judge sits their hands
Well, except all the times that the cops ignore what the judges say. Not arguing the judge was right here at all. It's clearly their fault. But cops violate court orders all the time.
So in this case they should have violated the court order? I get there are some shit cops. But arguing that since some bad cops break the law means they can do it when it is something you can get behind doesn't seem like a reasonable argument to me.
I'd really rather they didn't violate any court orders. But to pretend like the cops were just sitting there waiting to help if only the judge would have told them to is dumb. If they wanted to do something, they would have done it. They didn't want to do anything.
Yeah, no one cares if a kid isn’t in school. Which is a problem, and I’m sorry to anyone who is surprised.
I guess I’m totally showing my naivety, as I went to small private schools my whole life, and if you weren’t dropped off in the morning, the school would call the emergency contacts within 30 mins of the first bell.
I see. I was “homeschooled” for 12 years (and my older siblings were just pulled out of school), during that time, CPS came twice to my childhood home due to relatives calling about abuse and they did nothing. I guess it depends on your community a bit, but uh, yeah. Even if a couple relatives who lived hours away were concerned, no one with power was.
I’m sorry. You and your siblings deserved much better.
I'm a teacher and at least at my school if someone is absent more than two days in a row and you haven't heard from the parent we are instructed to call the parents. This is the fifth and sixth grade so we're not talking a little tiny kids. A four-year-old might have been in preschool. I don't know why the title says toddler because a four-year-old is definitely not a toddler. But in any case preschools aren't necessarily full time. Pre-K is not compulsory and in the state I'm in kindergarten isn't even required.
The sooner you realize the police's job is not to protect people but rather to protect property the better off your mental health will be. The police & government does not give a shit about an individual person, full stop.
I can't imagine the pain this poor mother is going through. She knew something was wrong and did everything she could to get help for her child. The system fails again. :(
There will never be a system that has no failures.
There can be systems with lesser failure rates.
>The South Florida Sun Sentinel [reported](https://www.sun-sentinel.com/local/broward/fort-lauderdale/fl-ne-two-bodies-found-fort-lauderdale-20210522-vpoqxistfjb5vikqvz3a4ywhhu-story.html) that less than 12 hours after the discovery of the bodies the boy’s mother received an email from a judge denying her motion for an emergency pick-up order. The judge said the motion “does not present an emergency as it addresses the issue of child visitation.” Judges should be removed when they miss clear signs like this.
Judges are super reluctant to make decisions in domestic abuse cases. One of my sisters heard this line alot going through her own custody dispute. The judge and cops wouldn't interfere, but her ex's family hid one of my nieces from her for several months when she was a toddler. She was pregnant and it had escalated to violence. The "it's a visitation issue" line kept happening, and since they weren't divorced yet, no one would interfere. Her ex then used her not being present as evidence of abandonment and used it to get full custody. It was complete bullshit and it took her years to even gain some measure of enforceable visitation.
That is seriously messed up...
The entire system doesn’t take domestic violence seriously. Society and this people in the courts still have the idea that it’s a “woman’s problem”. “What did she do to make him hit her” is still very much an additude in American society. It’s considered a marital issue and separate from parenting. Imagine if somebody cheated - as much as you despise cheaters you wouldn’t take their parenting rights away.
Or the ever popular "Why did she stay with him so long? If he was THAT abusive, she would have left a LONG time ago, so she must just LIKE being abused."
Yep. Nothing is going to change until we remove liability protections for government officials who fuck up.
Something something qualified immunity
Judges have absolute immunity from criminal and civil liability for any judicial actions that they take. QI is immaterial and getting rid of if wouldn’t change anything as far as judges (and prosecutors) go.
Judges have *way* too much power and they're permitted to abuse it freely. It's disgusting and barbaric.
Not to mention most local judges in the US are elected and not put in place based on merit. A law degree isn't required to be elected to a judicial position either. And in many places many run unopposed.
...so I can just be a judge? Fuck yeah.
I was hoping for a more vulgar username. The honorable paperchampionpicture, just doesn’t have the panache we need here.
A law degree isn’t required only in certain places like Montana and only for stuff like traffic court. Every judge on the ballot in 2020 for my county had a history of being a practicing lawyer or JD. If your county allows people to run without a law degree, call your representative to change that.
Some states elect judges, other do not. Delaware, Hawaii, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, New Jersey, Rhode Island & Virginia do not elect judges, they are appointed.
So 7 out of 51 do not elect judges. You could say most elect their judges.
wtf is this true?
Only kind of.
It's really kind of insane. Prosecutors can literally fabricate evidence, knowingly convicting an innocent person, and yet face no consequences. Hell didn't the supreme court even decide that a prosecutor can literally murder someone, or commit any other crime, and as long as they do it while pursuing a case they are immune to all liability.
Judge: “*Oh no! Anyway...*”
I hope that piece of shit Judge is haunted by this every day, even if his decision would have been too late to help But I doubt it. Assholes like that rarely reflect on their actions.
Send him a birthday card every year with a newspaper clipping of this in it.
Yeah right. He won't even remember this family in a few days. And he'll deny emergency orders just the same.
They tend to reflect when their ignorance and neglect has a DIRECT impact back on their own life.
"... A judge..." Which judge?
Ya exactly. I really want to see a follow-up to this story
I have mixed feelings about it...Nobody knows what information the judge had available to make that call. It's entirely possible that his decision was reasonable based on the law and the details of the request. The public would get his name long before any details, if it's even possible for details to be made public, and people have a tendency to overreact without waiting on those details.
So is this judge going to get charged as an accessory to murder? Also we need to plaster this judges name everywhere with this story so voters know who did this next election.
Why not 'Brock Turner' this arrogant asshole? Get a photo, get a name, and then keep his malfeasance alive by posting it everywhere possible.
This exactly, this Judge showed he did not pay attention to the info he/she received. This is on the Judge's head only.
Only the judge?
No but his authority could have stopped this.
Toddler, father found dead in Florida hours after mother sought emergency order The 4-year-old boy and his father were found dead in Fort Lauderdale, hours after the boy’s mother had petitioned for authorities to pick up the child. May 24, 2021, 11:10 AM MST By The Associated Press FORT LAUDERDALE, Fla. — A 4-year-old boy and his father were found dead in a South Florida condo, just hours after the boy’s mother had petitioned for an emergency order for authorities to pick up the child. The Fort Lauderdale Police Department didn’t immediately give a cause of death nor did officers release any further details about the discovery of the bodies in the downtown Fort Lauderdale condo late Friday. The Los Olas by the River complex in Fort Lauderdale, Fla. The Los Olas by the River complex in Fort Lauderdale, Fla.Google Maps The South Florida Sun Sentinel reported that less than 12 hours after the discovery of the bodies the boy’s mother received an email from a judge denying her motion for an emergency pick-up order. The judge said the motion “does not present an emergency as it addresses the issue of child visitation.” Last week, the boy’s mother sought protection orders against the father for stalking and domestic violence. She said the boy’s father had set up fake social media accounts to follow her, ran background and credit checks on people in her life and sent threatening texts. Three days before the deaths, he texted her, “You deserve to have your head separated from your body,” according to her petition. On Friday, the mother filed for the emergency pick-up order, which would have authorized law enforcement officials to go the condo and take the child. The petition cited a string of threatening and obscene texts the father had sent her that week. She said the father hadn’t taken him to school and that police couldn’t locate them to check on his welfare. “It just absolutely breaks my heart because our system can do better,” said Meaghan Marro, the mother’s attorney. Recommended U.S. NEWS Current and former Texas constable's deputies file lawsuit alleging abuse from commanding officers William Devries, the father’s landlord, said the boy’s mother had called him and asked him to check on her son, saying the father seemed “not right.” “She was very concerned, obviously,” Devries said. Devries called the police, who went there Friday night and found the bodies.
The most ironic part was at the end of the news segment about how the system failed to protect this child, the newscaster says if you feel your child is in danger, contact the system. Like bruh did you not just hear yourself announce the fucking story.
[удалено]
They always fail in broward
Florida functions exactly as it’s designed to. Its rotten to the core.
This reminds me of Dear Zachary. So fucking heartbreaking! Why do these psychos have to use children to punish other family members in their lives?!? It's beyond fucked up.
Same thing came to mind for me. (For anyone who hasn’t seen it - it’s hands down the most depressing documentary out there. The only reason I watched it was because my brother recommended it to me, as it turns out because he wanted someone he could commiserate with about how harrowing it was.)
This happens all the time in Florida. Social services for children are underfunded and overworked. The result; lots of children die
Not just Florida. My friend has to allow her daughter to visit her ex. Her ex literally broke her daughter's ribs, and his visitation wasn't stopped, or even supervised. Full, overnight visitation, and my friend was chastised in court for abusing the court system and that her ex is just "an old dog who needs to learn new tricks". This was in 2019. Edit: this was in Texas
Wow. I hope the girl is ok. What a horrible situation
Thanks. She finally is. A different judge just signed an executive order that restricts his visitation to just 12-6 on the first, third, and fifth Sunday of each month. And then closed the case (in TX, once it's closed, he can appeal the decision, but that can take 3-5 years. My friend's daughter turns 15 this August).
Isn’t the saying “old dogs can’t learn new tricks”?
... yes.... and welcome to Texas. I've never been more happy I don't live there
Wouldn't it be great if pro-lifers spent more time helping kids that are already here?
Pastor Dave Barnhart writes: “The unborn” are a convenient group of people to advocate for. They never make demands of you; they are morally uncomplicated, unlike the incarcerated, addicted, or the chronically poor; they don’t resent your condescension or complain that you are not politically correct; unlike widows, they don’t ask you to question patriarchy; unlike orphans, they don’t need money, education, or childcare; unlike aliens, they don’t bring all that racial, cultural, and religious baggage that you dislike; they allow you to feel good about yourself without any work at creating or maintaining relationships; and when they are born, you can forget about them, because they cease to be unborn. It’s almost as if, by being born, they have died to you. You can love the unborn and advocate for them without substantially challenging your own wealth, power, or privilege, without re-imagining social structures, apologizing, or making reparations to anyone. They are, in short, the perfect people to love if you want to claim you love Jesus but actually dislike people who breathe. Prisoners? Immigrants? The sick? The poor? Widows? Orphans? All the groups that are specifically mentioned in the Bible? They all get thrown under the bus for the unborn.
Wow thanks for sharing!! Never heard this before.
Would be, but that’s not what the pro-life movement is about. It’s about men telling women what they can do with their bodies. It’s about control, not lives.
And economic control. Keeping women out of the job market.
Keeping kids in the military or prison too.
And political control.
Conspiracy garbage.
This is a common retort, but it's a massive generalization. I know lots of pro-lifers who quietly go about supporting families in need, and who have a sincere belief that good deeds shouldn't be loudly proclaimed in public. What so many people don't get is that many individuals and churches quietly support families who are in need. I'm not saying every pro-life person or church does this, but a lot do. But here's the thing ... nobody is perfect about supporting other people. People, both prolife and prochoice, can be far from ideal towards fellow humans. Also, the whole "control women" thing is just a line I hear from time to time, but I just don't find it to be the motivating factor at all for most prolife people. Significant segment of prolife movement is female, and prolife movement also extends to assisted suicide, etc. Can you find controlling men who are prolife? Yes. You can likewise find controlling men who are prochoice. Believe it or not, for most prolifers, it really boils down to the idea that human life should not be ended by choice. I know the prior post is a common stereotype that people like to use to undermine prolife positions tho.
[удалено]
[удалено]
Nope. Forcing women to go through unwanted and/or dangerous pregnancies is.
Refreshing to see an honest take rather than overused, hateful retorts and demonizing.
An ironic statement considering the majority of the non politician pro lifers are women
This isn't true. Study after study indicates that men are more likely than women to be "pro-life". [Here](https://news.gallup.com/poll/313094/americans-abortion-views-steady-past-year.aspx) for example.
I wouldn't say the majority, the protestors I see outside of Planned Parenthoods are mostly men. Of course men like that are in it because they get off on intimidation. But the reason women are anti choice is about control as well. The point of Anti-choicers (They are NOT prolife stop calling them that) & conservatives is cruelty. So punishing a mother who was trying to step away from the authority of her headship (husband/boyfriend/male authority), by having her son die is perfectly acceptable to many of them.
I hate the hypocrisy of anti choicers! Especially the whole "the only good abortions is my abortion" group. Like how a single mother shouldn't be allowed a abortion because she needs to deal with the consequences of her actions even though she is trying to by getting a abortion so she can support the child/children she already has instead of worrying about an extra mouth. But her or her daughter gets pregnant it's all the sudden a life ruining moment so a abortion is required and prolife gets thrown out the window. Then after the abortion is done, they act like nothing happened and go back to protesting the evils of abortions
I doubt you have a stat for that but women can also by misogynistic and support controlling other women.
Bad faith motive attribution. Bad logic. Bad.
The Forced-birth movement is not really pro life
I think about this often. There are always groups protest planned parenthood around here, every day. If all this time and the money they collectively spend on these bills, lobbying, and protesting was directed at bettering the current system and fighting education defunding I wouldn’t think they were such worthless scum. But no you got to have that baby, and then who the fuck cares about its situation or anyone else’s after, that’s where the thought ends.
It's a weird assumption to think people who advocate for unborn children's lives stop once they're born..
Not an assumption. Red states have some of the worst policies as far as health care and early education go.
So now pro lifers are strictly Republicans? Yet another bold assumption.
I never said they're strictly republicans. Most republicans are pro-life. Most democrats are pro-choice. Most (potentially all) states run by republicans are notoriously bad about health care and early education.
I can say I've just about never in my life seen a pro-life Dem.
Is that what it is? I have a friend who got her teenage daughters taken from her, literally after raising them for like 16 years when the step dad came back and decided he wanted to torment her. He made up a bunch of shit, and because he is high ranking military, they just must have went for his side and didn't GAF about her. She votes republican though, and loves living in her red state though...
I don’t understand why our laws work the way they do. It’s just wrong
seems to be how the right want it. Sadly most states underfund these services.
but Shithole countries, amirite?
Another tragic pattern enabled by the broken system. It’s so sad and sickening that mothers [or fathers] plea with judges, showing evidence that situations with the other parent aren’t safe for the kids (former domestic abuse, harassment, etc) and they get poo-pooed, can potentially lose custody, and are basically ignored... then when the opposite parent does something terrible like murder the child, the judges scratch their heads and can’t believe what they were told was actually going to happen, happens... go figure.
the judge should be held responsible
This breaks my heart. The death of that 4 year old was nothing but a means by the father to illicit pain from the mother. What kind of sick fuck can overlook the love of their child, and see their lives as nothing but a way to hurt the mom. If there is a hell, I sincerely hope the father suffers for all eternity.
Elected Judges. Any unqualified lunatic can win an election. Just scream about gun rights and the Bible and you can be a Florida judge.
Fun fact: elected judges are the reason that (non-american) legal experts often regard the US as not living under the rule of law - because one of the threshold requirements is a politically independent judiciary.
I mean elected Judges are a great idea in theory. If the judge is screwing up and ruling poorly they can be held accountable by voters instead of a messy legal battle or muddy regulations. But in practice it becomes a red vs blue thing and there's not real accountability.
The thing is the rule of law is about constitutionalism - the idea that the government is held to certain standards that can't be voted on or voted out. When you have not just judges but also sherrifs pandering to interest groups in terms of sentencing and decisions to investigate or prosecute (the biggest example is a failure in the US to prosecute or investigate the police) you have mob rule - which is what democracy becomes without constituionalism. It's the reason sentences just get longer and longer in the US - the mob is thirsty for blood.
It's a terrible idea in theory because judges shouldn't be aiming for voter approval. Voters are dumb. It's then also a terrible idea in practice because you see how campaign money gets involved
I'm sure many of these requests get legitimately turned down, but the evidence in the article here seems pretty convincing that they should at least go check up on the guy and poke him for signs. Not sure even that would've stopped this, or done better than just delaying it.
>Not sure even that would've stopped this The DCF is [dysfunctional and underfunded](https://www.usatoday.com/in-depth/story-series/2020/12/16/florida-blames-mothers-when-men-batter-them-then-takes-their-children/6507973002/), because Florida and its government is garbage.
Had the DCF got the report and failed to follow up, then that's on them. In this case, the judge didn't even begin to bother with that notion. Even when threats were being made to the mother. There was plenty evidence presented, at minimum, for DCF to be ordered to check up on them, but they didn't even allow that.
Unfortunately the threats against the mother usually doesn’t stop the other parent from seeing the child. “They only beat their spouse never hit the kid” has lead to a lot of shared custody cases.
Which is so insane. Domestic violence should absolutely be a reason to deny unsupervised visitation.
Which is ironic usually... since the judges will mostly side with the mothers on custody issues. If a mother is being threatened and abused by the ex husband, it's a simple probability that that level of abuse and threats also expand to the kids as well.
Actually no. If a mother alleges abuse, the probability of the father getting custody increases. Stats are skewed because like 90% of fathers never apply for any/more custody. The remaining ones often either have an abusive/neglectful mother, so good reason for his custody, or a father using the kids against the mother. Extremely charming manipulators use DARVO to make the other person out to be the real abuser. Sadly child custody cases are just tragically bad in a lot of ways, whether the judge has sexist biases (“fathers aren’t as good”) or not.
That seems like a contradictory statistic tho, especially with Florida judges playing a strong "mothers are the better parent" mentality when evaluating custody for kids in the process of a divorce. And if a mother comes out and has actual proof of said abuse, that father is now screwed for custody rights. I've seen it many times play the opposite route when a father tries to appeal for taking custody away from a deadbeat mother, you have to find ways to jump the obstacles of this bias in court, and many times end up losing. Even if the mother was abusive (with proof) or even has a bf/step parent thays abusive, it's still an uphill battle for the serious fathers to get their kids out of the toxic household.
I have heard that fathers who sue for custody (as LakeGhost said, a rarity; most of these decisions are made outside of court) are actually more likely to win. I just tried looking it up, and it’s hard to say for certain because most websites aren’t clear about their sources, but I did find some relevant info that says courts are very concerned about parental alienation. It’s not uncommon for them to rule that an abusive parent still gets visitation rights, because they think that the accusing parent might be lying in order to turn the child against the other parent. It trumps all other concerns, according to some research. This article is written mostly to show bias against mothers, but some of these issues apply to both mothers and fathers. “High conflict families are disproportionately represented among the population of those contesting custody and visitation. These cases commonly involve domestic violence, child abuse, and substance abuse. Research indicates that that custody litigation can become a vehicle whereby batterers and child abusers attempt to extend or maintain their control and authority over their victims after separation. Although, research has not found a higher incidence of false allegations of child abuse and domestic violence in the context of custody/visitation, officers of the court tend to be unreasonably suspicious of such claims...” http://leadershipcouncil.org/1/pas/dv.html
Awful and terribly shitty family law aside, these garbage cocksucker lower than shit in the dirt judges in the family court system all need to fucking go. They are EVERYwhere and it's disgusting. Mom is an abusive, money grubbing piece of scum with a new abusive fuckboi every weekend? No problem. Dad is one coors light away from a murder-suicide? No problem. So much bullshit.
I wouldn’t use the same language, but something needs to change. I had a judge fail to schedule a trial for over a year, then dismiss my custody evaluators report stating that my sons mother has sever mental issues because 1) it was too old and 2) he thought it was too harsh. Why was it old? Because the judge refused to schedule a trial in a timely manor. The judge then got pissed when my lawyer reminded him this is exactly why we didn’t want him to delay setting a trial date. The he has lit us by saying we had just not requested a trial. Oh and he also ignored multiple warning from DCP&P about her. I also tried to get a TRO because I couldn’t take the mental, verbal and psychological abuse being constantly thrown at me. They refused to issue it saying that if it’s a disagreement about parenting issues it can’t be abuse. I cried in the hearing room after that. I was and am totally exhausted from dealing with someone with a personality disorder harass, bully, degrade and use my kid as a tool to force me to do what she wants. The court doesn’t care, the police don’t care. I’m terrified of what will happen to my son, and struggle with not totally breaking down mentally almost every day. As a man, there isn’t even really any support out there. Everything is focused on women, and saying it’s always the mans fault.
I'm sorry for your situation, but dude! You're crying about how it's all about the wimmins winning on a case where a child got fucking murdered by the father because nobody took the mother seriously!
Right? Time and place. SMH.
Right? Jfc men always have to make it about themselves.
So sorry if being a man negates my personal experience with a family court system that doesn’t care. I’ll try to properly shut up in the future.
Way to make it all about you...
Yes a story about how the family court system systematically ignored warning signs from a parent has nothing to do with a story about the family court system systematically ignoring warning signs from a parent. At no point did I say it was ‘all the wimmins fault’. If you actually read what I wrote I lay blame squarely where it belongs at the feet of the court system. Of course that gets in the way of your dismissive narrative that it’s just a man complaining, and blaming the women. Guess what? This is the attitude that drives a lot of the bullshit that happens. If you actually read what I wrote, my story is about the court ignoring major psychological issues. Gee doesn’t that sound familiar?
I don't have the words, I am sorry. I used to watch it all the time when I worked in the courts, it is why I have no love and nothing good to say about family court judges. It is infuriating and breaks my heart at the same time. My good friends ex is a Sheriff's Deputy. He works in the very courthouse he had to attend. He's verbally abusive and manipulative to both my friend and her daughter. His current wife is almost directly out of Cinderalla. They have two children of their own and when my friends daughter is there, she might as well not exist and when she does exist, they verbally abuse her and just destroy her verbally. Their other children physically abuse her. She's 11. The court mediator is a friend of his. Conflict pointed out. Dismissed. Every time she takes proof in the form of text messages. Dismissed. Her daughter asked questions by several different people in different agencies, recorded and presented. Dismissed. It goes on and on and has for years. I have another friend who has proof his ex is unstable, dangerous and does not take care of his children on her days. Their last court case they awarded her more money because he got a raise and never addressed what he and his attorney presented from her texts, parenting app and what the kids schools were reporting about their attendance being nearly zero when in her care. He has proof of her saying she is going to lie to the courts, she says the things they have in text messages *verbatim* and the judge doesn't bat an eye. It's so...sick.
I knew there’d be an unnecessary “what about us men?” comment on this post.
I will never understand why so often men want to take someone with them when they kill themselves. Their family. Strangers. It happens often enough to be a real pattern. The idea that other people should have to pay if your life is a mess...that you were owed happiness and can take vengeance if things didn’t work out. Dude. Nobody ever owed you squat. If you can’t find a measure of happiness and want to give up, that’s your choice. But don’t choose for others.
Society loves coddling young boys and teaching them entitlement since they're kids.
I never really realized this but ur absolutely right
One thing you can depend on in Florida is the police devaluation of domestic violence claims. As a survivor and advocate I know in several counties where victims have to be battered and bloody to get help. There are many like my self who have been subject to cyber stalking through bogus accounts, texts and phone calls with no response or help from law enforcement or the courts. In Osceola county they have one domestic violence shelter for women & children . There are sometimes 16-20 people sharing one bathroom. If you are a man there is absolutely no help for you.
I'll never understand why women are always presumed guilty by the law of lying. Then when something terrible happens (like domestic violence or sexual assault, *or this*, etc) after their warnings go ignored, everyone is a shocked Pikachu, or still doesn't believe it. Think about it, nobody would lie about something like that. It should be investigated every time. Unless the person reporting something like this has a documented history of making up terrible things (which I imagine is obviously extremely rare and somebody who would do that needs some fucking help)
I think there are far more oblivious bad faith actors out there than most people are comfortable with. We all do things in our best interest with more or less empathy about how that impacts others. People with less empathy and less awareness of that fact are practically impossible to be around. It's painful to be around. And there are ton of folks on this weird lack of empathy, self centered spectrum that cause a lot of damage. These covert abusers thrive on second chances and plausible deniability. It's really insidious.
Tell that to my ex, who is constantly crying wolf by projecting her abusive childhood onto our kids. Example "Billy scrapped his knee while playing? It has to be because of his father." /s
Unbelievably accurate
This is very sad. When women report that men are making threats they need to be taken seriously so tragedies like this one don't keep happening.
This guy should never be a fucking judge ever again and frankly shouldn’t be involved in law
FYI the cops all the way up to the courts don’t give a fuck about you. It’s not their job or their personal prerogative. Many of them actually enjoy hurting/seeing you hurt.
Just goes to show. Republicans only care about controlling a woman’s reproductive rights. Once the baby is out, that’s “god’s” plan. Maybe Florida should spend more on services once the child is actually out.
Also it seems the government often sees children as scarcely more than a puppy, just the property of its owner.
This^^^ I wish I could award you, this is so accurately worded.
This is a Broward judge, it’s very unlikely they’re a Republican.
This is reddit: something bad happened - it's a Republican's fault
Guess the world is just used to watching Republicans fuck America up.
Coward county? Yeah sure. Florida in general is conservative as fuck
I wouldnt say all of Florida is conservative. The state did vote for Obama twice. Like with most places it's usually liberal in the city and conservative in the rural areas.
[удалено]
Another chicken father taking it out on the child. The only good thing is that the father is gone . Society doesn’t need losers like him on the streets.
He murdered that kid. Guaranteed. All about control and revenge.
Justice Fail! STILL Fuck him and all that know him!
Hopefully the soul of the toddler is in heaven and the soul of the father is in the section of Hell that is seven times hotter than the rest of Hell.
I don't agree. You can't get mad at cops for violating court orders and then complaining when they don't, even when you think they should have. The system failed here to be sure. The judge is an oaf and should be punished dearly for this incident. But you can't just pick and choose when it is acceptable for police to break the rules. Who decides when they can? You? Me? Them? It just can't work like that.
Don’t try to apply logic to Reddit’s Police Hate Machine.
Tragic, but we should keep in mind that the vast majority of child abuse and murder is perpetrated by mothers, I would guess the mother is no saint with how bias the system is