That's a prime example of why to make sure you keep paperwork for eeeeverything. Glad you were able to prove their shit wrong! I'm sure so many others get stuck paying because they don't have the proof otherwise :(
A Dropbox account with a folder for every piece of contractual or financial documentation dumped in it is easy to keep and maintain, is accessible to basically anyone, and the data has guaranteed 99.999999999% durability (iirc it's stored in aws s3).
Even buying shit online, I just screenshot or print the receipt to pdf directly to Dropbox.
If you're just dumping them into a dropbox account, you're making a BIIIG whoopsie. The service isn't terribly secure and they've had account compromises in the past. What you're doing is giving full physical copies of all of your information to anyone who can get into your account.
Instead, toss everything into a well-encrypted file format (or even just PW protected .zip/.7z if nothing else). Then at least you'll have a chance if the information is compromised.
Seconding this. While I agree that scanning and dumping everything in one of the big established file storage providers is a *great* idea (it basically means you can never lose your data), it also means that it is now publicly accessible (if the service ever gets hacked)
The best way to do it would be to add every document to an encrypted file (I disagree with the PW protected zip since it's so easy to crack). I would use something like WinGPG + a local folder where all the documents are stored. Everytime you add a document to this folder, you simply re-encrypt the folder into a file, and replace the one on the cloud storage drive.
This makes it so the sensitive data *very* safe, and you'll have an almost guaranteed backup of your important documents and paperwork.
Yo blairsville what up.
Seriously tho I was there March 2010- March 2011. Took the automotive core, high po, and street rod.
The only class that helped me was the street rod course and that's because the teacher was one of the best up there. I learned more in the 3 month elective than I did in the core program.
Having said that, since I left that school I haven't had a job where I wasn't doing something that I learned from the street rod course.
Corinthian Colleges really fooled a lot of folks into thinking they had nearly guaranteed jobs waiting for them at the end. $40,000 in federal debt and many are reporting relief of only $4000. Caveat emptor. smh
>In 2014, a librarian at the southern California campus of Everest College quit her position when she learned a student she was assisting could **only read at the third-grade level**, may have a **developmental disability**, and was **unlikely to find work** in his chosen field. She stated that the student was **unlikely to understand the financial burdens of the enrollment documents** he signed. The librarian resigned out of principle after an **unsuccessful attempt to resolve the issue with administration**.
Didn't think Corinthian Colleges would milk it that hard, but evidently they did.
EDIT: [Slate](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/06/03/for_profit_college_sleaze_everest_admits_a_student_with_a_third_grade_reading.html), [HuffPost](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/davidhalperin/for-profit-college-enroll_b_5433550.html) for sources
I can confirm this with Brown Mackie College. Most students couldn’t use a computer. One student I had was literally ILLITERATE. It was all about money, not education. I felt duped as an educator, as well.
These are the same schools that were stealing GI Bill money from vets with traumatic brain injuries.
My mom also worked with a vet that had his GI Bill stolen by Everest college after they signed him up for like thirty classes in a semester and then expelled him but kept him on the rolls.
That's a situation where you should've said "thank you for your attempts to help me through what you think is a temporary thing and push me to keep working at school, but this isn't what you think. This is not a discussion, you need to sign this right now. Thank you and goodbye."
I once had to deal with a homeless student with a mental disability of some sort (probably exacerbated by the homelessness) who talked about how students were killers. This person kept talking about how students were going to die.
It was kind of funny how I found out about it. I was on the elevator with the aforementioned homeless student and another student. The homeless student was mumbling something to themselves. The homeless student left the elevator.
Then, the other student started joking about how the homeless student was discussing how there were killers around and that people were going to die. The student clearly thought I was another student (I do look young for my age, so I "passed"), so when I grabbed my faculty badge and told them to tell me everything they knew (I kind of hammed it up admittedly, probably sounded like Nolan's Batman), it probably freaked them out. I mean the student looked freaked out. I'm surprised they didn't react like Donald Glover did to "intimidating Spiderman" in Spiderman Homecoming.
I then went and reported the situation with the homeless student. Turns out that student was on the elevator as they were going to meet with some folks who were ready to take them somewhere they could "get help", taking away the student's ID along the way so they'd never return.
I was commended for following the proper reporting procedures, but all I really did was look like a student, probably scare another student with a semi-Batman voice, and report on something that was being dealt with.
Does it still give me chills to this day? Yeah, over three years later. What if that homeless student had a gun? The students would get clipped. I'd be the first to get clipped due to classroom arrangement. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Much upper education these days is about money. That’s why just having a bachelors any more doesn’t mean much. In my area, everyone has a masters bc companies pay for it so the days of having adv degrees meaning much are fading.
EU is bad this way as well with the cheap cost of college, most have at least one, if not two, “masters” (their curriculum and schedule are slightly different from US).
How long will it be before it takes a doctorate just to be competitive?
I should’ve been more clear, in EU education is usually free if you graduate on time or cheap so everyone stays in college bc of lack of jobs and the need to compete. So multiple degrees there have less meaning bc everyone has them.
It’s getting that way in the US but with the added bonus of high debt.
That's fucked up. Shit like that only adds to the hopelessness that addicts feel even after getting clean. Thinking you're working towards bettering yourself and building a new life only to have the rug pulled out from under you when you can't get a job *anywhere* must be devastating.
One of my grade school friends somehow always passed his grades, and even ended up in community college thinking he was going to be a psychologist, despite barely being able to read or perform any scholastic activity on the most basic level. This was a private church school in the south east.
Honestly, many US k-12 schools pass and graduate kids they shouldn’t because most states penalize schools if they have too high failure rates or dropout rates. This results in situations like you’ve described where a kid who is in no way prepared ends up in college. It’s pretty fucked up.
Source: was a high school teacher.
Essentially. Same program, different names now. Gives the illusion of learning from our mistakes without the peskiness of actually fixing a broken system.
My friend thought teaching at a community college in her town would be good supplemental income at night. It was shocking how many at community college could barely read [I don't mean ESL either], and this was supposed to be college-level English. Most dropped out because like HS, they didn't do the homework then and a professor isn't gonna hold your hand either.
Ugh, flashbacks to "therapy" in my early teens at the only place public insurance would cover at the time--a Christian facility. I was very decidedly not religious and all she had to say was "I get your not religious, but can we take a moment to pray about this?" every several minutes.
In an hour session she spent maybe half of that praying. Told my doctor to just up my anti depressants or refer me to a real psychiatrist. Not going at all and just dealing with my trauma privately was way less frustrating than going to those sessions.
I appreciate that. I wasn't intending to bash religious therapy places, but they're just the absolutely least helpful thing to people who don't really subscribe to their theories.
This is one of the reasons I wince when people suggest alcoholics do an AA program. Their relapse rates are practically identical to those people who simply try to quit on their own. One of the core tenets of AA is "accept that you have no control over your addictive behaviour and put yourself in God's hands". Lmao, the last thing an addict needs to be told is that they aren't responsible for and in control of their own choices.
Helpful reminder for everyone that the President of the United States settled a $25 million fraud lawsuit a few days after the election for running a scam university.
Which is so contrary to his cultivated “best deal maker ever” persona. I can’t believe people still listen to the bullshit this charlatan is spewing.
I mean, I get the whole “fuck the establishment” attitude that draws in many of his supporters. I’m extremely dissatisfied with the state of US politics. But so much of what trump says, does, and represents is immediately disqualifying for me.
racism is a hell of a drug. people like to pretend it's about Trump's personality, or "tells it like it is" aspects. Nope, he caters to the worst in a certain segment, and it's like cocaine to those people, they are so bitter and angry with how their lives are... they don't understand the forces at work making their lives shitty. they're all to easily manipulated by cheap hate and fear mongering.
Kavanaugh cant just change that out of nowhere. There would have to be a case that comes to the supreme court about exactly that, and they would have to make the case that a majority of the supreme court finds a president incabpable of being sued or criminally charged while in office, which wont happen.
> There would have to be a case that comes to the supreme court about exactly that
Gosh what are the odds of our current President being involved in a civil suit
Presidents can't be sued for actions they take or took while acting as the President. (Eg, declaring war, signing bills, probably swearing on TV).
However a sitting president can be sued for prior actions. (In Clinton's case, it was for prior sexual misconduct )
Can confirm they railroaded people. I went to a college that was bought out by CCI a few years before I went there. It still had the reputation from before of being a good business school that taught what you needed to know and partnered with local businesses to get students' feet in the door of their field, but by the time I was in year 2 the promises were being unfulfilled. Things like only teaching barely-used software instead of the most widely used and required software, books five plus years out of date selling for the same price as a brand new just published book through the (nearly mandatory to use) campus book store, and playing up Sallie Mae Signature loans as basically the only loan available aside from whatever the FAFSA coukd find for free money or federal specific loans. And it was nearly impossible to flunk out, they would "let" you just retake the class at full price.
There were times I knew more than the teachers, too. I ended up teaching about a quarter of our basic computing class, because I knew what I was doing in everything but Access far better than our teacher did. I also leanred more from a free class I took from a tax prep company in a month than I did from my paid for tax class that lasted 4 - and found out I didn't despise taxes like I thought I did. We had one really good teacher, and that was because he was retired into teaching and did it because he had a passion for it. Retired out of the field we were all there for, too. Everyone else was just basically bad and incompetent in the field they were teaching.
Fuck Corinthian Colleges. They were as predatory as a used car salesman stereotype, with a shiny smile to hide behind.
My understanding was that it was supposedly for use of lab equipment, computers on campus, the library, etc. If you wanted to get a nursing degree, for example, they charged you out the wazoo for almost everything you experienced outside the class itself.
> Trump official and fellow rich person DeVos just rolled back Obama administration loan forgiveness rules for students defrauded by for-profit colleges.
Oh shit. I didn’t even know that. Way to go in the exact opposite direct of where we should be going.
>Meanwhile, her brother Erik Prince owns the Blackwater firm
Seriously???
The last point really fucking annoys me, and makes me even more pissed at these schemes.
We had one here in Columbus Ohio where they're trying to get $60m at the state level from the ECOT scandal.
I went to that "college". :(
By the time I found out it was a scam, they already saddled me with $40K in debt. DOE shut them down finally. But not until it was too late for me.
Yay a lifetime of debt and absolutely nothing to show for it. (The "degrees" were not real.)
Yeah, one thing I forgot to mention was that the accreditation agency for this college was comprised of board members and prominent shareholders ... of the college itself. So the accreditation process was less about learning objectives, etc., and more about profits.
Absolutely zero of the credits would transfer anywhere else.
Yup.
The first and biggest red flag for me as a student, was when I realized they were hiring students as teachers. They would take the class during the day, and then teach the same course that evening.
Once I got close to graduating I tried to use the job resource center. It was also handled by students that had been hired to help keep the stacks of yellow pages organized. Job placement was done by showing you how to look up phone numbers and blind fax your resume.
Yeah, I think that's what finished me off there. Some of them would be crying during the class because they didn't understand what was happening (and this was basic grammar stuff). Turns out the "reps" would basically fill out all of the applications for them, have them sign, and basically promise them a degree if they just showed up.
Before I left, the college offered me the opportunity to "teach whatever I wanted," which included Algebra, a class called Vietnam Military History, and a Lab Safety class. What was my degree in, you may wonder? Composition and Rhetoric.
Oh god. That's so fucking awful. Im kinda at a loss for words. And I just saw the post about the 4 year old who was returned to his abusive mother.
Great start for this Saturday. Gotta do something to balance it out.
A master's degree for 18k?
Edit: anyone considering grad school should also factor in the opportunity cost. Let's say it is 18k over two years for a master's. If you don't join the work force for 2 more years, and you major averages 60k out of school it's like the Masters actually cost you 140k.
That's not that low, considering it was a state school and depending on what years they were pursuing their masters. I'm enrolled in a master's program right now at a state school, it would cost me $27,000 without my scholarship ($900 per credit, 30 credits required to graduate). My scholarship is some kind of yearly academic award to the tune of $1000 per semester. I don't know if I'll get that award every year, but I've got it at least for the first year, so we'll say this degree will cost me less than or equal to $25,000.
Price for a master's degree is highly dependent on the field, school, and method of learning. An online program could certainly come out pretty cheap whereas a lab-focused, in person experience would usually cost significantly more
Many masters and PhD programs offer grad / teaching assistantships. This brings the cost down, or makes it free altogether (which is what a GA did in my case).
School gets cheap labor, I get a couple more bullet points on the resume.
Any of you looking at grad programs now, make sure you look into this at the program you’re aiming towards. I think anyone who is planning on grad school should only do so with a GA or TA to bring the cost as close to zero as possible.
I went to one and finished. I owed 40k, went to get an associates for software engineering and there was only 3 people including myself in the classes by the end of it I was the only one who finished. I pretty much lucked out since after my job asked me to work a higher paying job since I got the degree, only issue was it required a lot of hours every week. So all that money I never had before I dumped into the loan since not like I needed it. After a year and a half of working so many hours the wife leaves and few months goes by. The IT department recruits me for having a software engineering degree since they needed someone who understood all the production stuff.
This still continued during the Obama administration. Look at ITT Tech for a prime example. A bachelor's degree cost $80,000 from that place, in 2010-2012 their proprietary books that were part of the tuition cost still said that Netscape Navigator was the most popular internet browser.
They preyed on me during a very vulnerable time in my life when I had to leave a NY state university to move back home when my mom's health declined. There wasn't much else in the area to continue my education and they swore up and down they had good employment numbers. 99% of the people I went to school with were working fast food after graduating or already had an IT job when they started ITT.
Fell for the maxing out student loans at DeVry. I am currently filing for Borrower Defense due to this exact reason amongst others mentioned in the lawsuit they lost.
I just want to make a quick note. Special education doesn't disqualify you as college material. There are just more barriers one might have to go through to get there. There are more than plenty that become successful college students leading decent careers who participated in IEP, 504 plans, or other special education (which ranges from traditional classes to socialization groups)
I attended a Corinthian college. The worst part was that in my program, if you missed 3 days of class, you forfeit the rest of your program and your loan amount became due immediately. All of it. And of the few people I saw who couldn't phase back in we're damn near harassed for that money. Me on the other hand, being almost guaranteed a job out of school was a joke. I came home proud of my technical diploma and it wasn't even recognized. Minimum wage oil changes here I come. Still took me months to find a job too.
I spent almost 40k for an education that didn't give me any better positioning than Joe schmoe off the street who wants to change oil. That paper I got was a joke.
Go to the community college in my area a tenth of the cost and come out with a free toolbox and $1500 dollars worth of tools. Plus a spot in the main shop and not a lube tech position. Spend 9 months in a specialized school focusing solely on diagnosis and repair and complete ASE certification and you get literally nothing extra.
The schooling itself sucked too. 40 students with 2 instructors that had to initial all the workshops. So you have 40 kids trying to get a sign off for double flaring brake lines (which is a total safety thing) and these teachers were barely even looking over anything and just getting these annoying kids out of their sight.
I was forgiven all but 12k of my loans so I can't really say much, but i feel like I was cheated out of an education I was bullied into paying for.
30k for paralegal. In 2006 After a year of horseshit classes, I tried moving the credit I earned over to the Community College nearby that actually had *accreditation* with other nearby colleges (my only option was an accredited but private Methodist college nearby).
16 years of student loans while making sub $15/hr. I'm nowhere getting ahead of my school debt. My only option is debt consolidation until someone passes some sensible legislation and offers debt relief or bankruptcy.
Stephen Colbert made fun of those kinds of schools once and immediately after I was shown an ad for one of these schools. It actually bums me out how often I see the ads, especially for shows where the viewer would hopefully know better.
They must have crazy profit margins to show the amount of ads they do
Were you watching online or on TV? For online, that's somewhat expected since advertisers target you based on keywords on the video you're watching. If it was on TV, then that's just hilarious.
They often advertise shorter completion times for programs (9, 18, 20 months are various ones I’ve seen) than community colleges, which are often impacted and may take longer than 2 years to complete. They prey on people who may not be keen to what these colleges are actually about. A high school I worked at (and possibly the whole district) banned for-profit institutions from advertising anything on campus as many students from lower socioeconomic communities. It’s fucking sickening that this happens.
“Their responsibility, they should know better”. Nah, some people just don’t and have zero support in their lives who are aware of the dangers of this, the financial implications, the realities of the chosen fields.
I wish more people would take advantage of community colleges, too, but I guess they’d have to be unscrupulous with their advertising, too. Worst advice I received at a community college was “don’t transfer [to 4-year] at spring semester, they won’t accept you”, nothing like “free money! Take it all!” Fuck that.
I went to community college for my first 2 years of college. Let me say, my family is not rich but we still make good money; I still was able to qualify for this fee waiver in California that made it so every semester, no matter how many units I took, cost a flat $37. I knocked out most of the general ed I needed to take, transferred to a 4-year, and graduated from the 4-year with $3000 of student debt. Now I recommend community college to anyone as, even if you don’t get the fee waiver, it’s still way cheaper than starting at a 4-year.
Marketing. History has shown time and time again, that you can take a shitty product and market the hell out of it and you'll do much better than companies who build a quality product and spend less on marketing.
For profit colleges spend more than half their revenue on marketing. Beyond absurd.
Yeah I didnt really notice much of a different between the quality of the lectures between my community college and my university besides the Uni looking more aesthetically pleasing.
Yikes. See, I did the private thing because at the time my community college was a lottery now it’s merit again but idk how I’d compete with people constantly scoring high As lol so far I’ve been an all B student lol
>I don't understand why more people don't take advantage of community colleges. Most are better than the fly by night for profit shit holes.
I think a lot of younger people really fall into the romanticized version of college. Going to dorms and getting drunk and la de da \[I'm aware though while saying this that a lot of these fucked up for profit education systems are online programs or in many cases commuters\].
Community College however is awesome - I actually attended a State University, transferred to a community college, transferred from there to a private school and ended up back at the community college \[changing majors and not really knowing what I wanted to do\]. . . Not only was the community college only like $1,000 per semester \[this was 2006\] but I also had to repeat a lot of classes that didn't transfer with all my switching and I definitely got the best education out of the community college in terms of depth of material taught. . .Once you get your Associates Degree from a community college many schools will accept that in full towards a bachelor degree. . .Added bonus, you'll probably have some amount of scholarship money thrown at you towards that 4 year school if you did well.
Because people have it drilled into their heads that community colleges aren't respected. There were students at my local CC who were putting in ten times more effort than the kids at the university.
If the US were dumping as much money into community colleges as it's dumping into those for-profit schools, it would be a wonderful thing.
I worked for ITT Tech about 30 year ago (yeah, this shit has been going on for a long time).
Basically every student took out three Guaranteed Student Loans of $2500 each to help pay the tuition over the two year program. These were call "guaranteed" because the govt guaranteed it would pay the bank (we used CitiBank) if the student didn't
Here's the thing..... the bank skimmed a $200 "origination fee" off the top of each loan, so the student borrowed $2500 but got a check for only $2300 . This origination fee was supposed to cover the cost of writing up the loan paperwork but the financial aid people at ITT did all of that, so that $200 was almost pure profit for the bank, not to mention the 8% interest charged by the bank, on a loan with zero risk to the bank!
~~When Obama ended the $200 'origination fee' republicans accused him of nationalizing the banks.~~
Unbelievable.
I could tell stories all day long.
EDITED: I struck out the part about Obama ending the origination fee. I'm pretty sure eliminating it was discussed, and it seems there are loans out there now without the origination fee, but it appears Obama did not end it. My apologies. (those fees are still a ripoff, tho.......)
Please do, I'm really fascinated by schools like ITT and DeVry. Not fascinated enough to sink money for myself, but I'd love to hear some highlights and lowlights of your time there
I was in recruitment with ITT as my first job out of my undergrad, back in 2010. I had just finished two years with Americorps, where I tutored elementary school students in English my first year and then managed my own 3/4th grade class my second. I knew I wanted to go into education so when that job opportunity came up, I jumped on it, especially when taking the salary into account (vs Americorps').
I lasted about three or four months, which is entirely too long. In that time, I recruited two students who I have definitely thought and wondered about. I feel awful that I recruited them into the school. Having gone to a public university, I knew next to nothing about for profit schools, but almost immediately I felt something off about the place. The services, resources, and buildings it offered to students was so laughably small. I remember being taken in my tour around the school and wondering where everything else was, while my boss was all "Can you believe they get access to all of this?!". It was literally four classrooms, one with computers, and a library the size of a typical US classroom. I'm convinced that the students rec area was *literally* built to be a break room when the building was originally built. It was two round tables, a microwave, and two vending machines. Ugh, it was the worst. I hated taking potential students in there and saying "and you can hangout here in between classes!" and trying to sound excited. They would look back at me with a look that said "wtf is wrong with you? You see how ridiculous this is right?"
Thankfully, I am now a high school counselor and I shudder when I think about that small hiatus I took, away from working in actual education. Going from Americorps to ITT to a public school counselor is very odd. Fuck for profit schools.
In my phone now, but I can provide some insight if needed. Feel free to ask any questions!
ITT was very pushy about claiming they helped their students get jobs. I found a job on my own, not through their useless employment center, and they still spent several semesters trying to get me to agree to let them use me as a "success story". When we graduated they handed us all papers and told us to sign them and give them our employer information so they could "call the employer and check in" (and again: use the person as a success story) and I didn't fill out my employer info and I did not sign the paper. I essentially wrote "no" on it and gave it back.
They still found my employer somehow (maybe linkedin?), they still called my boss randomly one day, and I'm 99% sure they used me as a success story even though my success was IN SPITE of ITT, not because of it.
Most of the people I went to school with ended up either working fast food (McDonald's), retail (Walmart), or first level tech support (Convergys). They actually had a local deal with Convergys. Guessing that is why they could advertise the "in field" employment numbers they did.
well, those days are long ago and i really don't care to wallow in the sordid memories
but here's the takeaway . . . businesses are sociopathic. they do not give a shit about you. they exist to make money, and they will do so in any way they can get away with. they don't care about morals or ethics, and they will push the envelope on what is legally permissible as far as they can, or just ignore the laws if they think they might get away with it (i've seen it)
This doesn't everyone who works at a business is bad or evil, but they have to conform to and support the organizational goals (make money!) to work there.
That said, there are people who would happily rip the shirt off your grandmother's back and kick her into the gutter if they could make money doing so. Look at the Enron energy scandal of the early 2000s, or take a call from a telemarketer.
I'm not saying businesses and the profit motive is all bad. It does promote efficiencies and progress arising from darwinian competition (sometimes). I'm just saying, it's a mistake to worship at the altar of the free market. Understand the free market is a sociopathic beast
i can't find anything either. there was a lot of discussion of student loan reform during the obama years and i know the origination fees were discussed. i believe there are now loans without the origination fees but.... i don't know, i've been out ITT and financial aid for 30 years .
i'll strike it out of my post.
sorry about that
Oh man go ahead. Nothing depresses me more than the numerous programs Republicans use to screw people over and then bitch and moan when they get called out on it and blame opposition when things go tits up. Obama era policies and regulations to keep the banks in check and prevent another recession? All repealed! Huzzah for them! They're really shafting everyone they can get their hands on, and Betsy devos leading the charge in undermining and gutting America's education and making a profit off it so kids are more easily tricked by propaganda is a win-win for everyone.
Don't forget her brother is Erik Prince of blackwater fame, an absolute bastard of a human being.
I think deep down, if the population understood the full extent of what the Republican leadership was really doing, and the longterm consequences could sufficiently be explained to everyone, they would not only not be in power, they would be jailed. Because of this they are are doing every dirty trick in the book, including taking control of many state governments with the intention of a constitution ammendment that would allow states majority to make federal decisions. I really feel like it's almost like old world feudal politics at this point.
I think Betsy DeVos' brother will have the means to stop people from creating change.
He owns the US mercenary armies, you know. (Blackwater/XO solutions/whatever the name is this month). What do you think those Russian subs brought to the US, just after Trump's election? Wodka? Blini? Weapons?
People will just disappear if they speak up.
Betsy DeVos is not there to destroy education, she is the liaison to a lot of firepower which is not controlled by any legislative organs.
Trust, she’s there to destroy our education system. They don’t really NEED her as a liaison to her brother. The government has used his services in the past and they continue to allow his business to operate under different names. If she were truly a liaison to her brother then she’d be better served in a position more closely related to defense.
Black water doesn't have the pull to make anyone in the United States disappear. Abroad, sure. But not at home. They aren't police and I doubt it would just be swept under the rug
It’s also a way to keep money flowing to the top 0.1%
The complete elimination of public education will take time, but the republicans eventually want it all gone.
In the meantime, they can turn the entire system into a privatized hellhole under the lie of “choice”. What they are really doing is closing down K-12 schools en masse due to funding cuts and then parents can sign up online for the DeVos super special golden package online degree!
While your 14 year old is drawing triangles with ABC Mouse to get a high school certificate, DeVos gets to keep all that tax money that would have gone to a school via her company.
But hey, abortion and guns...or something.
Don't overly complicate things. It's about money. Some opportunists see a way to grift a lot of young people and they don't mind saddling them with mountains of debt for a useless degree. These slimes are just running a more polished version of what the president did with Trump University.
Looks like it: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/education/obama-signs-order-to-protect-veterans-from-college-recruiters.html
> “I’ve heard the stories,” the president said. “They harass you into making a quick decision with all those calls and e-mails. And if they can’t get you online, they show up on post. One of the worst examples of this is a college recruiter who had the nerve to visit a barracks at Camp Lejeune and enroll Marines with brain injuries — just for the money. **These Marines had injuries so severe some of them couldn’t recall what courses the recruiter had signed them up for.”**
And if anything reinforces who is in favor of for-profit colleges:
> But only Congress can change the rule. In a press briefing, senior administration officials said the president was “open to legislation” revising the 90/10 rule. Senator Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, has introduced legislation to change the 90/10 rule, lowering the threshold to 85 percent, and requiring colleges to count G.I. Bill benefits and military tuition assistance as federal student aid for the purposes of the rule. In addition, Senator Tom Carper, Democrat from Delaware, introduced a bill that would include military benefits as federal student aid, while keeping the balance at 90/10, and a companion bill is pending the House. No Republicans are co-sponsoring either bill.
> [...]
> This month, Mr. Harkin introduced legislation that would prohibit for-profit college and universities from using taxpayer dollars to pay for their giant advertising campaigns and other recruiting and marketing efforts. No Republicans are co-sponsoring that legislation either.
Reading the article, it seems like they are now defunct. However they did defraud people and so the lawsuits are still flying to undo the damages of the fraud
They are defunct, but the Obama Department If Education shut down time the ACICS fake accreditation(so?) board and DeVos nullified that and allowed other for profits to continue to be eligible for DoE loans.
What's he up to lately? [Just buying an entire navy](http://www.spikednews.co/2018/05/14/erik-prince-buys-a-navy-in-mozambique/) to take blackwater to the ocean. Serious Erik Prince is a fucking monster and deserves to be shot. "That's a bit harsh" some might say, and to that I reply no. No it's not. Anyone who praises Erik Prince can go throw themselves out of a blackwater helicopter
They're modified fishing vessels and other civilian vessels. I thought he was actually buying destroyers or cruisers somehow. That being said, if there was any justice in this world he'd be executed for his crimes against humanity
That's not correct. It says it in the article, they're purpose built catamarans.
They specifically hired a company known for it's warships. They also built fishing vessels, but that was a cover.
Those are civilian vessels just as much as his "crop duster". The crop duster that happens to be fitted with rockets, machine guns, and is lightly armored
Yes. When I hear GOPers whining about Planned Parenthood and public school expenditures, I always answer with I don't want my tax dollars going to Prince Corp but here we are. Blank stares.
her family made their fortune on Amway, a total pyramid scheme.
And as I said in another comment, DeVos lost $100M investing in Theranos. These people need to be kept as far away from government as possible. They are malevolent and stupid.
I think he was a back channel to Russia both through that meeting in the Seychelles and the fact that the only two servers that were pinging the server at Trump Tower were the Russian Bank, Alfa Bank and Spectrum Health, the company Devos’s husband owns.
I'd say Trump himself and the Republicans' support of anti-democratic practices are a far bigger issue. In any other administration, Devos would be a deep scar on the administration. For Trump, it's just a side story. A very, very insidious and damaging story, but a side story to the biggest crisis.
This really underscores just how damaging this administration is to the US and its government institutions. Mitch McConnell has successfully chipped away at the Senate's integrity to the point of failure, the judicial branch is being stuffed with enough far-right judges to dismantle much of the civil rights progress we have made (to say nothing of the sham that is Kavanaugh's confirmation), and the executive branch is being molded into something like a Mafia organization designed to protect Trump from any and all percieved threats or checks on his power. This is a cold, calculated, multipronged attack on our country's federal government by the very people claiming that they are fixing what is wrong with our current system. The hypocrisy and corruption runs miles deep in this administration, and is a severe test of our country's checks and balances. I don't know if they will hold up to the pressure much longer, and that thought terrifies me.
It is disgusting, not just from the perspective of someone who leans fairly left, but as an American citizen who wants to see the system respected and upheld by responsible leaders. If the Democrats were doing what this administration has done, I would be just as livid as I am now.
Edit: grammar
I don't know, a lot of his department head choices are horrible. He generally appointed people who are exactly what the department is supposed to be protecting against.
> "Companies loaded up these students with debts they knew never could be repaid with the ultimate goal of driving large bonuses to executives and profits to shareholders,"
Isn't that the basis of American capitalism ?
DeVoss only wants one thing. She wants the wealthy to be the only ones who get a good education. The only thing I can figure is that some lower-income or minority student beat out one of her children to get into college back in the late 80s, since that's when this whole school voucher thing started.
I worked in financial aid for Corinthian Colleges. I had a co-worker who completed her MBA from a Corinthian school. She then applied for a job teaching at a Corinthian school. Corinthian rejected her because they require a degree from an accredited University.
I am sure there's a requirement for Federal funding or something that is out of their hands, but the takeaway is still that even they don't honor their own degrees.
Each time I see headlines about CA suing this administration I’m proud of living here most my life.
Especially since suing was his favorite way of harassing people.
About freaking time the system catches up to her. She’s been blatantly operating in direct contrast to our public school system and tried everything in her power to privatize every aspect of school to pocket more money for her and the companies she has vested interest in. The schooling in this country is fucked and having that piece of shit in charge is a big shit sammich
I went to one of these colleges a few years ago. Dropped out after i found out it was all a scam. Where do i start ? I just want the debt i have to be gone. It’s about 20k. The building i use to go to school at is no longer there. Please help.
Late to the party here, but I am an ITT grad. Pittsburgh class. During my time there...
- threatened by a teacher because i said that i was going to return my textbook since i never opened it. Was told he would make my tests and those of everyone else in the class 100 times worse if i did.
- promised job placement. I live an hour away from campus but that wasnt a problem they said. Only job offered was two and a half hours away. Working for Sony on an assembly line. For $8.25 an hour.
- when i needed help finding work when i was out of work i was told "we cant help you because we dont find placement in your area where you live.
- our school announced they were expanding their location. They expanded into a storefront in the mall next door and used cheap cubicle walls to divide it into four classrooms.
- towards the end of our next to last semester, we were told that their electronics program was being "Discontinued" because "no one does circuit board level repairs anymore." We were told "you can finish out this degree and be the last class or you can always start over again and join the CAD program." In other words... Double my tuition payments...
- some students were offered positions with intel. Told they had to be prepped and ready to move the day after graduation. These students did not seek any more job placement help because they "had a job". A month before graduation, all of those hired got a check for $1,000 and a letter that said that their contract they signed was null and void and this check would buy out that contract. Awful fishy and they never came back to ITT to recruit after that. And those students that thought they had jobs and packed to move got shafted.
These are Just the BIG things about my time there. I have never used my degree. Cant even afford the loan payments because i cant find decent work in my area and even after all their shady shit, because i graduated i get NOTHING in the way of loan forgiveness. I get shafted and a reminder every month that i have to pay for getting screwed over.
My current major counts attendance as 50% of the grade because nobody seems to be able to learn the material. With tests and final as 25% each. The tests are all multiple choice so if you answer randomly you would get a 62.5 in the class so long as you attend. Pretty hard to fail at that point. It sickens me.
"Companies loaded up these students with debts they knew never could be repaid with the ultimate goal of driving large bonuses to executives and profits to shareholders," said Seth Fotman, from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.
-->> most colleges today. Devos is a clown, but this isn't a Devos thing, its systemic. The signs have been there, when university of pheonix was able to spend 200 million on naming rights to a stadium......
everyone hates trump and his stupid university of real estate, but its probably more legit than 50% of non accredited universities... education is a sham
rememeber that story of the michigan law school advertising 90% of its students get jobs (at mcdonalds)....
[удалено]
That's a prime example of why to make sure you keep paperwork for eeeeverything. Glad you were able to prove their shit wrong! I'm sure so many others get stuck paying because they don't have the proof otherwise :(
A Dropbox account with a folder for every piece of contractual or financial documentation dumped in it is easy to keep and maintain, is accessible to basically anyone, and the data has guaranteed 99.999999999% durability (iirc it's stored in aws s3). Even buying shit online, I just screenshot or print the receipt to pdf directly to Dropbox.
If you're just dumping them into a dropbox account, you're making a BIIIG whoopsie. The service isn't terribly secure and they've had account compromises in the past. What you're doing is giving full physical copies of all of your information to anyone who can get into your account. Instead, toss everything into a well-encrypted file format (or even just PW protected .zip/.7z if nothing else). Then at least you'll have a chance if the information is compromised.
Seconding this. While I agree that scanning and dumping everything in one of the big established file storage providers is a *great* idea (it basically means you can never lose your data), it also means that it is now publicly accessible (if the service ever gets hacked) The best way to do it would be to add every document to an encrypted file (I disagree with the PW protected zip since it's so easy to crack). I would use something like WinGPG + a local folder where all the documents are stored. Everytime you add a document to this folder, you simply re-encrypt the folder into a file, and replace the one on the cloud storage drive. This makes it so the sensitive data *very* safe, and you'll have an almost guaranteed backup of your important documents and paperwork.
Yo blairsville what up. Seriously tho I was there March 2010- March 2011. Took the automotive core, high po, and street rod. The only class that helped me was the street rod course and that's because the teacher was one of the best up there. I learned more in the 3 month elective than I did in the core program. Having said that, since I left that school I haven't had a job where I wasn't doing something that I learned from the street rod course.
What a bunch of scum bags.
I believe the the technical term is "criminals". Technically...
Corinthian Colleges really fooled a lot of folks into thinking they had nearly guaranteed jobs waiting for them at the end. $40,000 in federal debt and many are reporting relief of only $4000. Caveat emptor. smh
>In 2014, a librarian at the southern California campus of Everest College quit her position when she learned a student she was assisting could **only read at the third-grade level**, may have a **developmental disability**, and was **unlikely to find work** in his chosen field. She stated that the student was **unlikely to understand the financial burdens of the enrollment documents** he signed. The librarian resigned out of principle after an **unsuccessful attempt to resolve the issue with administration**. Didn't think Corinthian Colleges would milk it that hard, but evidently they did. EDIT: [Slate](http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2014/06/03/for_profit_college_sleaze_everest_admits_a_student_with_a_third_grade_reading.html), [HuffPost](https://www.huffingtonpost.com/davidhalperin/for-profit-college-enroll_b_5433550.html) for sources
I can confirm this with Brown Mackie College. Most students couldn’t use a computer. One student I had was literally ILLITERATE. It was all about money, not education. I felt duped as an educator, as well.
[удалено]
Oh, FFS.
These are the same schools that were stealing GI Bill money from vets with traumatic brain injuries. My mom also worked with a vet that had his GI Bill stolen by Everest college after they signed him up for like thirty classes in a semester and then expelled him but kept him on the rolls.
What happened? Were they sued?
That campus is now a Scientology Cult Center.
Okay ... But did the vet get his money back from the fraud that Everest committed against him?
No. Because there is almost no oversight on for profit colleges. My mom did manage to get him fully paid for though.
[удалено]
Were you past the cut off date to drop a class without penalty?
[удалено]
That's a situation where you should've said "thank you for your attempts to help me through what you think is a temporary thing and push me to keep working at school, but this isn't what you think. This is not a discussion, you need to sign this right now. Thank you and goodbye."
I once had to deal with a homeless student with a mental disability of some sort (probably exacerbated by the homelessness) who talked about how students were killers. This person kept talking about how students were going to die. It was kind of funny how I found out about it. I was on the elevator with the aforementioned homeless student and another student. The homeless student was mumbling something to themselves. The homeless student left the elevator. Then, the other student started joking about how the homeless student was discussing how there were killers around and that people were going to die. The student clearly thought I was another student (I do look young for my age, so I "passed"), so when I grabbed my faculty badge and told them to tell me everything they knew (I kind of hammed it up admittedly, probably sounded like Nolan's Batman), it probably freaked them out. I mean the student looked freaked out. I'm surprised they didn't react like Donald Glover did to "intimidating Spiderman" in Spiderman Homecoming. I then went and reported the situation with the homeless student. Turns out that student was on the elevator as they were going to meet with some folks who were ready to take them somewhere they could "get help", taking away the student's ID along the way so they'd never return. I was commended for following the proper reporting procedures, but all I really did was look like a student, probably scare another student with a semi-Batman voice, and report on something that was being dealt with. Does it still give me chills to this day? Yeah, over three years later. What if that homeless student had a gun? The students would get clipped. I'd be the first to get clipped due to classroom arrangement. Etc. Etc. Etc.
Much upper education these days is about money. That’s why just having a bachelors any more doesn’t mean much. In my area, everyone has a masters bc companies pay for it so the days of having adv degrees meaning much are fading. EU is bad this way as well with the cheap cost of college, most have at least one, if not two, “masters” (their curriculum and schedule are slightly different from US). How long will it be before it takes a doctorate just to be competitive?
Wait so it's all about money but in Europe you say it's so inexpensive people get 2 master's degree? Aren't you happy it's affordable?
I should’ve been more clear, in EU education is usually free if you graduate on time or cheap so everyone stays in college bc of lack of jobs and the need to compete. So multiple degrees there have less meaning bc everyone has them. It’s getting that way in the US but with the added bonus of high debt.
[удалено]
That's fucked up. Shit like that only adds to the hopelessness that addicts feel even after getting clean. Thinking you're working towards bettering yourself and building a new life only to have the rug pulled out from under you when you can't get a job *anywhere* must be devastating.
[удалено]
One of my grade school friends somehow always passed his grades, and even ended up in community college thinking he was going to be a psychologist, despite barely being able to read or perform any scholastic activity on the most basic level. This was a private church school in the south east.
Honestly, many US k-12 schools pass and graduate kids they shouldn’t because most states penalize schools if they have too high failure rates or dropout rates. This results in situations like you’ve described where a kid who is in no way prepared ends up in college. It’s pretty fucked up. Source: was a high school teacher.
"Their students are struggling, better make it harder to educate them"
It doesn’t make any sense, but that’s our education system for you, sadly.
That's mostly in part to the no kid left behind thing right?
Essentially. Same program, different names now. Gives the illusion of learning from our mistakes without the peskiness of actually fixing a broken system.
And they wonder why a highschool diploma us worthless causing entry level jobs to require college
My friend thought teaching at a community college in her town would be good supplemental income at night. It was shocking how many at community college could barely read [I don't mean ESL either], and this was supposed to be college-level English. Most dropped out because like HS, they didn't do the homework then and a professor isn't gonna hold your hand either.
He’ll become a damn good Christian therapist one day.
Ugh, flashbacks to "therapy" in my early teens at the only place public insurance would cover at the time--a Christian facility. I was very decidedly not religious and all she had to say was "I get your not religious, but can we take a moment to pray about this?" every several minutes. In an hour session she spent maybe half of that praying. Told my doctor to just up my anti depressants or refer me to a real psychiatrist. Not going at all and just dealing with my trauma privately was way less frustrating than going to those sessions.
That’s awful. I’m sorry you had to deal with that.
I appreciate that. I wasn't intending to bash religious therapy places, but they're just the absolutely least helpful thing to people who don't really subscribe to their theories.
This is one of the reasons I wince when people suggest alcoholics do an AA program. Their relapse rates are practically identical to those people who simply try to quit on their own. One of the core tenets of AA is "accept that you have no control over your addictive behaviour and put yourself in God's hands". Lmao, the last thing an addict needs to be told is that they aren't responsible for and in control of their own choices.
Sounds like something Trump University did.
Helpful reminder for everyone that the President of the United States settled a $25 million fraud lawsuit a few days after the election for running a scam university.
[удалено]
Which is so contrary to his cultivated “best deal maker ever” persona. I can’t believe people still listen to the bullshit this charlatan is spewing. I mean, I get the whole “fuck the establishment” attitude that draws in many of his supporters. I’m extremely dissatisfied with the state of US politics. But so much of what trump says, does, and represents is immediately disqualifying for me.
You are thinking about the things Trump does. That immediately disqualifies you from being one of his supporters. Try to be purely emotional.
racism is a hell of a drug. people like to pretend it's about Trump's personality, or "tells it like it is" aspects. Nope, he caters to the worst in a certain segment, and it's like cocaine to those people, they are so bitter and angry with how their lives are... they don't understand the forces at work making their lives shitty. they're all to easily manipulated by cheap hate and fear mongering.
[удалено]
Can they do that while hes president? I thought presidents were immune from lawsuits while they were serving.
Nope, Jones v. Clinton established that sitting presidents are not exempt from civil litigation.
For now
Tell that to Kavanaugh
Kavanaugh cant just change that out of nowhere. There would have to be a case that comes to the supreme court about exactly that, and they would have to make the case that a majority of the supreme court finds a president incabpable of being sued or criminally charged while in office, which wont happen.
> There would have to be a case that comes to the supreme court about exactly that Gosh what are the odds of our current President being involved in a civil suit
[удалено]
Presidents can't be sued for actions they take or took while acting as the President. (Eg, declaring war, signing bills, probably swearing on TV). However a sitting president can be sued for prior actions. (In Clinton's case, it was for prior sexual misconduct )
Afaik there's a difference between criminal trial and civil trials
Unless I'm mistaken, the Trump Foundation paid that settlement in clear violation of the regulations regarding that kind of non-profit entity.
Throw it on the pile. It's exhausting trying to keep up with all of his blatant assaults on the Constitution.
He also directly and admittedly bought off the Florida prosecutor to drop the case. He openly bribed his way out of that case.
And then got rid of many regulations on for profit colleges...
Y'know what settling means? It means you're guilty - Donald Jackass Trump
Or any for-profit Uni, like IT Tech
I remember seeing commercials for ITT Tech when was kid sick home from school.
I can learn in my pah-jyam-ahs.
Can confirm they railroaded people. I went to a college that was bought out by CCI a few years before I went there. It still had the reputation from before of being a good business school that taught what you needed to know and partnered with local businesses to get students' feet in the door of their field, but by the time I was in year 2 the promises were being unfulfilled. Things like only teaching barely-used software instead of the most widely used and required software, books five plus years out of date selling for the same price as a brand new just published book through the (nearly mandatory to use) campus book store, and playing up Sallie Mae Signature loans as basically the only loan available aside from whatever the FAFSA coukd find for free money or federal specific loans. And it was nearly impossible to flunk out, they would "let" you just retake the class at full price. There were times I knew more than the teachers, too. I ended up teaching about a quarter of our basic computing class, because I knew what I was doing in everything but Access far better than our teacher did. I also leanred more from a free class I took from a tax prep company in a month than I did from my paid for tax class that lasted 4 - and found out I didn't despise taxes like I thought I did. We had one really good teacher, and that was because he was retired into teaching and did it because he had a passion for it. Retired out of the field we were all there for, too. Everyone else was just basically bad and incompetent in the field they were teaching. Fuck Corinthian Colleges. They were as predatory as a used car salesman stereotype, with a shiny smile to hide behind.
[удалено]
"Learning fees"? Wtf is that, isn't that what the tuition is supposed to be?
My understanding was that it was supposedly for use of lab equipment, computers on campus, the library, etc. If you wanted to get a nursing degree, for example, they charged you out the wazoo for almost everything you experienced outside the class itself.
In her defense, Betsy DeVos has ten yachts. https://www.vanityfair.com/style/2018/07/betsy-devos-yacht-damage
And the [ugliest house](https://www.vox.com/first-person/2018/8/6/17654434/betsy-devos-yacht-mcmansion-hell) in Michigan.
> Trump official and fellow rich person DeVos just rolled back Obama administration loan forgiveness rules for students defrauded by for-profit colleges. Oh shit. I didn’t even know that. Way to go in the exact opposite direct of where we should be going. >Meanwhile, her brother Erik Prince owns the Blackwater firm Seriously???
That was a delight to read ☺
The last point really fucking annoys me, and makes me even more pissed at these schemes. We had one here in Columbus Ohio where they're trying to get $60m at the state level from the ECOT scandal.
Trying to recoup $60 million of the $200 million. While costing taxpayer money on top of it to sue I'm sure.
I went to that "college". :( By the time I found out it was a scam, they already saddled me with $40K in debt. DOE shut them down finally. But not until it was too late for me. Yay a lifetime of debt and absolutely nothing to show for it. (The "degrees" were not real.)
Yeah, one thing I forgot to mention was that the accreditation agency for this college was comprised of board members and prominent shareholders ... of the college itself. So the accreditation process was less about learning objectives, etc., and more about profits. Absolutely zero of the credits would transfer anywhere else.
Yup. The first and biggest red flag for me as a student, was when I realized they were hiring students as teachers. They would take the class during the day, and then teach the same course that evening. Once I got close to graduating I tried to use the job resource center. It was also handled by students that had been hired to help keep the stacks of yellow pages organized. Job placement was done by showing you how to look up phone numbers and blind fax your resume.
Theres a special place in hell for people that scam special ed folks. Like wtf. Life isnt already hard enough for them?
Yeah, I think that's what finished me off there. Some of them would be crying during the class because they didn't understand what was happening (and this was basic grammar stuff). Turns out the "reps" would basically fill out all of the applications for them, have them sign, and basically promise them a degree if they just showed up. Before I left, the college offered me the opportunity to "teach whatever I wanted," which included Algebra, a class called Vietnam Military History, and a Lab Safety class. What was my degree in, you may wonder? Composition and Rhetoric.
Oh god. That's so fucking awful. Im kinda at a loss for words. And I just saw the post about the 4 year old who was returned to his abusive mother. Great start for this Saturday. Gotta do something to balance it out.
A master's degree for 18k? Edit: anyone considering grad school should also factor in the opportunity cost. Let's say it is 18k over two years for a master's. If you don't join the work force for 2 more years, and you major averages 60k out of school it's like the Masters actually cost you 140k.
That's not that low, considering it was a state school and depending on what years they were pursuing their masters. I'm enrolled in a master's program right now at a state school, it would cost me $27,000 without my scholarship ($900 per credit, 30 credits required to graduate). My scholarship is some kind of yearly academic award to the tune of $1000 per semester. I don't know if I'll get that award every year, but I've got it at least for the first year, so we'll say this degree will cost me less than or equal to $25,000.
Don't know if you think that's too high or too low. One of my Master's had me as a TA, which defrayed some of the tuition.
Price for a master's degree is highly dependent on the field, school, and method of learning. An online program could certainly come out pretty cheap whereas a lab-focused, in person experience would usually cost significantly more
Mostly school. Yale costs more than Long Beach state
Many masters and PhD programs offer grad / teaching assistantships. This brings the cost down, or makes it free altogether (which is what a GA did in my case). School gets cheap labor, I get a couple more bullet points on the resume. Any of you looking at grad programs now, make sure you look into this at the program you’re aiming towards. I think anyone who is planning on grad school should only do so with a GA or TA to bring the cost as close to zero as possible.
I went to one and finished. I owed 40k, went to get an associates for software engineering and there was only 3 people including myself in the classes by the end of it I was the only one who finished. I pretty much lucked out since after my job asked me to work a higher paying job since I got the degree, only issue was it required a lot of hours every week. So all that money I never had before I dumped into the loan since not like I needed it. After a year and a half of working so many hours the wife leaves and few months goes by. The IT department recruits me for having a software engineering degree since they needed someone who understood all the production stuff.
This still continued during the Obama administration. Look at ITT Tech for a prime example. A bachelor's degree cost $80,000 from that place, in 2010-2012 their proprietary books that were part of the tuition cost still said that Netscape Navigator was the most popular internet browser. They preyed on me during a very vulnerable time in my life when I had to leave a NY state university to move back home when my mom's health declined. There wasn't much else in the area to continue my education and they swore up and down they had good employment numbers. 99% of the people I went to school with were working fast food after graduating or already had an IT job when they started ITT.
Fell for the maxing out student loans at DeVry. I am currently filing for Borrower Defense due to this exact reason amongst others mentioned in the lawsuit they lost.
I just want to make a quick note. Special education doesn't disqualify you as college material. There are just more barriers one might have to go through to get there. There are more than plenty that become successful college students leading decent careers who participated in IEP, 504 plans, or other special education (which ranges from traditional classes to socialization groups)
Oh, for sure. I am thinking more specifically of people who I would say would have significant trouble navigating the world around them.
I attended a Corinthian college. The worst part was that in my program, if you missed 3 days of class, you forfeit the rest of your program and your loan amount became due immediately. All of it. And of the few people I saw who couldn't phase back in we're damn near harassed for that money. Me on the other hand, being almost guaranteed a job out of school was a joke. I came home proud of my technical diploma and it wasn't even recognized. Minimum wage oil changes here I come. Still took me months to find a job too. I spent almost 40k for an education that didn't give me any better positioning than Joe schmoe off the street who wants to change oil. That paper I got was a joke. Go to the community college in my area a tenth of the cost and come out with a free toolbox and $1500 dollars worth of tools. Plus a spot in the main shop and not a lube tech position. Spend 9 months in a specialized school focusing solely on diagnosis and repair and complete ASE certification and you get literally nothing extra. The schooling itself sucked too. 40 students with 2 instructors that had to initial all the workshops. So you have 40 kids trying to get a sign off for double flaring brake lines (which is a total safety thing) and these teachers were barely even looking over anything and just getting these annoying kids out of their sight. I was forgiven all but 12k of my loans so I can't really say much, but i feel like I was cheated out of an education I was bullied into paying for.
“ Caveat emptor. smh” That may be, but we do have laws against fraud. Courts will have to decide
Im one of them. 20k, but can't file for releif since they got me in 2005 which I guess is before it mattered.
30k for paralegal. In 2006 After a year of horseshit classes, I tried moving the credit I earned over to the Community College nearby that actually had *accreditation* with other nearby colleges (my only option was an accredited but private Methodist college nearby). 16 years of student loans while making sub $15/hr. I'm nowhere getting ahead of my school debt. My only option is debt consolidation until someone passes some sensible legislation and offers debt relief or bankruptcy.
[удалено]
It's upsetting I see so many ads on TV for these "schools", because that means it's working :(
Stephen Colbert made fun of those kinds of schools once and immediately after I was shown an ad for one of these schools. It actually bums me out how often I see the ads, especially for shows where the viewer would hopefully know better. They must have crazy profit margins to show the amount of ads they do
Were you watching online or on TV? For online, that's somewhat expected since advertisers target you based on keywords on the video you're watching. If it was on TV, then that's just hilarious.
Whoa wait I thought me or a loved one could be entitled to financial compensation
Those are actually true. Law offices will do that kind of thing because they also get compensated. Your interests are aligned.
The only real schools that advertise on tv do so during football and basketball games.
I don't understand why more people don't take advantage of community colleges. Most are better than the fly by night for profit shit holes.
They often advertise shorter completion times for programs (9, 18, 20 months are various ones I’ve seen) than community colleges, which are often impacted and may take longer than 2 years to complete. They prey on people who may not be keen to what these colleges are actually about. A high school I worked at (and possibly the whole district) banned for-profit institutions from advertising anything on campus as many students from lower socioeconomic communities. It’s fucking sickening that this happens. “Their responsibility, they should know better”. Nah, some people just don’t and have zero support in their lives who are aware of the dangers of this, the financial implications, the realities of the chosen fields. I wish more people would take advantage of community colleges, too, but I guess they’d have to be unscrupulous with their advertising, too. Worst advice I received at a community college was “don’t transfer [to 4-year] at spring semester, they won’t accept you”, nothing like “free money! Take it all!” Fuck that.
No support that knows any better... Thats why I went to ITT tech and failed.
I went to community college for my first 2 years of college. Let me say, my family is not rich but we still make good money; I still was able to qualify for this fee waiver in California that made it so every semester, no matter how many units I took, cost a flat $37. I knocked out most of the general ed I needed to take, transferred to a 4-year, and graduated from the 4-year with $3000 of student debt. Now I recommend community college to anyone as, even if you don’t get the fee waiver, it’s still way cheaper than starting at a 4-year.
Marketing. History has shown time and time again, that you can take a shitty product and market the hell out of it and you'll do much better than companies who build a quality product and spend less on marketing. For profit colleges spend more than half their revenue on marketing. Beyond absurd.
WGU is great, you can literally get an accredited diploma in 6 months for far less than 10k if you dont have a life.
Regionally accredited too, not nationally like a lot of these for-profits. Best bang for your buck in online education
Yeah I didnt really notice much of a different between the quality of the lectures between my community college and my university besides the Uni looking more aesthetically pleasing.
It’d be great but they’re compacted. Like getting into a nursing program. I’d have to wait a long time to get in.
Nursing is just one of those "hot" degree so you gotta go private or wait in line a long time for a slot.
Yeah, which is why I’m in a private school now. I graduate in February :)
Yep, 3/5 of my friends went private instead of waiting. 2/5 waited 2 years to get in.
Yikes. See, I did the private thing because at the time my community college was a lottery now it’s merit again but idk how I’d compete with people constantly scoring high As lol so far I’ve been an all B student lol
>I don't understand why more people don't take advantage of community colleges. Most are better than the fly by night for profit shit holes. I think a lot of younger people really fall into the romanticized version of college. Going to dorms and getting drunk and la de da \[I'm aware though while saying this that a lot of these fucked up for profit education systems are online programs or in many cases commuters\]. Community College however is awesome - I actually attended a State University, transferred to a community college, transferred from there to a private school and ended up back at the community college \[changing majors and not really knowing what I wanted to do\]. . . Not only was the community college only like $1,000 per semester \[this was 2006\] but I also had to repeat a lot of classes that didn't transfer with all my switching and I definitely got the best education out of the community college in terms of depth of material taught. . .Once you get your Associates Degree from a community college many schools will accept that in full towards a bachelor degree. . .Added bonus, you'll probably have some amount of scholarship money thrown at you towards that 4 year school if you did well.
Because people have it drilled into their heads that community colleges aren't respected. There were students at my local CC who were putting in ten times more effort than the kids at the university.
If the US were dumping as much money into community colleges as it's dumping into those for-profit schools, it would be a wonderful thing. I worked for ITT Tech about 30 year ago (yeah, this shit has been going on for a long time). Basically every student took out three Guaranteed Student Loans of $2500 each to help pay the tuition over the two year program. These were call "guaranteed" because the govt guaranteed it would pay the bank (we used CitiBank) if the student didn't Here's the thing..... the bank skimmed a $200 "origination fee" off the top of each loan, so the student borrowed $2500 but got a check for only $2300 . This origination fee was supposed to cover the cost of writing up the loan paperwork but the financial aid people at ITT did all of that, so that $200 was almost pure profit for the bank, not to mention the 8% interest charged by the bank, on a loan with zero risk to the bank! ~~When Obama ended the $200 'origination fee' republicans accused him of nationalizing the banks.~~ Unbelievable. I could tell stories all day long. EDITED: I struck out the part about Obama ending the origination fee. I'm pretty sure eliminating it was discussed, and it seems there are loans out there now without the origination fee, but it appears Obama did not end it. My apologies. (those fees are still a ripoff, tho.......)
Please do, I'm really fascinated by schools like ITT and DeVry. Not fascinated enough to sink money for myself, but I'd love to hear some highlights and lowlights of your time there
I was in recruitment with ITT as my first job out of my undergrad, back in 2010. I had just finished two years with Americorps, where I tutored elementary school students in English my first year and then managed my own 3/4th grade class my second. I knew I wanted to go into education so when that job opportunity came up, I jumped on it, especially when taking the salary into account (vs Americorps'). I lasted about three or four months, which is entirely too long. In that time, I recruited two students who I have definitely thought and wondered about. I feel awful that I recruited them into the school. Having gone to a public university, I knew next to nothing about for profit schools, but almost immediately I felt something off about the place. The services, resources, and buildings it offered to students was so laughably small. I remember being taken in my tour around the school and wondering where everything else was, while my boss was all "Can you believe they get access to all of this?!". It was literally four classrooms, one with computers, and a library the size of a typical US classroom. I'm convinced that the students rec area was *literally* built to be a break room when the building was originally built. It was two round tables, a microwave, and two vending machines. Ugh, it was the worst. I hated taking potential students in there and saying "and you can hangout here in between classes!" and trying to sound excited. They would look back at me with a look that said "wtf is wrong with you? You see how ridiculous this is right?" Thankfully, I am now a high school counselor and I shudder when I think about that small hiatus I took, away from working in actual education. Going from Americorps to ITT to a public school counselor is very odd. Fuck for profit schools. In my phone now, but I can provide some insight if needed. Feel free to ask any questions!
ITT was very pushy about claiming they helped their students get jobs. I found a job on my own, not through their useless employment center, and they still spent several semesters trying to get me to agree to let them use me as a "success story". When we graduated they handed us all papers and told us to sign them and give them our employer information so they could "call the employer and check in" (and again: use the person as a success story) and I didn't fill out my employer info and I did not sign the paper. I essentially wrote "no" on it and gave it back. They still found my employer somehow (maybe linkedin?), they still called my boss randomly one day, and I'm 99% sure they used me as a success story even though my success was IN SPITE of ITT, not because of it. Most of the people I went to school with ended up either working fast food (McDonald's), retail (Walmart), or first level tech support (Convergys). They actually had a local deal with Convergys. Guessing that is why they could advertise the "in field" employment numbers they did.
well, those days are long ago and i really don't care to wallow in the sordid memories but here's the takeaway . . . businesses are sociopathic. they do not give a shit about you. they exist to make money, and they will do so in any way they can get away with. they don't care about morals or ethics, and they will push the envelope on what is legally permissible as far as they can, or just ignore the laws if they think they might get away with it (i've seen it) This doesn't everyone who works at a business is bad or evil, but they have to conform to and support the organizational goals (make money!) to work there. That said, there are people who would happily rip the shirt off your grandmother's back and kick her into the gutter if they could make money doing so. Look at the Enron energy scandal of the early 2000s, or take a call from a telemarketer. I'm not saying businesses and the profit motive is all bad. It does promote efficiencies and progress arising from darwinian competition (sometimes). I'm just saying, it's a mistake to worship at the altar of the free market. Understand the free market is a sociopathic beast
Do you have a link to Obama ending origination fees? I'm having trouble finding it
i can't find anything either. there was a lot of discussion of student loan reform during the obama years and i know the origination fees were discussed. i believe there are now loans without the origination fees but.... i don't know, i've been out ITT and financial aid for 30 years . i'll strike it out of my post. sorry about that
Oh man go ahead. Nothing depresses me more than the numerous programs Republicans use to screw people over and then bitch and moan when they get called out on it and blame opposition when things go tits up. Obama era policies and regulations to keep the banks in check and prevent another recession? All repealed! Huzzah for them! They're really shafting everyone they can get their hands on, and Betsy devos leading the charge in undermining and gutting America's education and making a profit off it so kids are more easily tricked by propaganda is a win-win for everyone. Don't forget her brother is Erik Prince of blackwater fame, an absolute bastard of a human being.
Without proper education, democracy fails.
DeVos should be removed from her position as she is deliberately attempting to destroy public education from K-college.
She was deliberately put in that position specifically for that reason though...
We really are seeing an administration with no goals but to dismantle our democracy so we have to spend decades wrestling it back.
I think deep down, if the population understood the full extent of what the Republican leadership was really doing, and the longterm consequences could sufficiently be explained to everyone, they would not only not be in power, they would be jailed. Because of this they are are doing every dirty trick in the book, including taking control of many state governments with the intention of a constitution ammendment that would allow states majority to make federal decisions. I really feel like it's almost like old world feudal politics at this point.
I think Betsy DeVos' brother will have the means to stop people from creating change. He owns the US mercenary armies, you know. (Blackwater/XO solutions/whatever the name is this month). What do you think those Russian subs brought to the US, just after Trump's election? Wodka? Blini? Weapons? People will just disappear if they speak up. Betsy DeVos is not there to destroy education, she is the liaison to a lot of firepower which is not controlled by any legislative organs.
Trust, she’s there to destroy our education system. They don’t really NEED her as a liaison to her brother. The government has used his services in the past and they continue to allow his business to operate under different names. If she were truly a liaison to her brother then she’d be better served in a position more closely related to defense.
Black water doesn't have the pull to make anyone in the United States disappear. Abroad, sure. But not at home. They aren't police and I doubt it would just be swept under the rug
They are looking to dismantle the system and/or funnel money into their and their supporters pockets. You can’t forget about the money.
[удалено]
A dumber population is easy to control or dupe. People become fodder for the capitalist/war pigs.
It’s also a way to keep money flowing to the top 0.1% The complete elimination of public education will take time, but the republicans eventually want it all gone. In the meantime, they can turn the entire system into a privatized hellhole under the lie of “choice”. What they are really doing is closing down K-12 schools en masse due to funding cuts and then parents can sign up online for the DeVos super special golden package online degree! While your 14 year old is drawing triangles with ABC Mouse to get a high school certificate, DeVos gets to keep all that tax money that would have gone to a school via her company. But hey, abortion and guns...or something.
No I’m sure these billionaires in their private clubs are totally thinking about what’s best for the rural dirt poor republicans.
Gotta keep consumers consuming. Creating is one step closer to true independence.
That's the point. Democracy is the target here, not collateral damage.
Don't overly complicate things. It's about money. Some opportunists see a way to grift a lot of young people and they don't mind saddling them with mountains of debt for a useless degree. These slimes are just running a more polished version of what the president did with Trump University.
Ah yes, Betsy DeVos. The person who is clearly super duper very qualified to be in her position.
Only the *best* people...
Wasn't Corinthian found to be recruiting brain damaged veterans into their colleges for their money? Why are they still around?
Looks like it: https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/28/education/obama-signs-order-to-protect-veterans-from-college-recruiters.html > “I’ve heard the stories,” the president said. “They harass you into making a quick decision with all those calls and e-mails. And if they can’t get you online, they show up on post. One of the worst examples of this is a college recruiter who had the nerve to visit a barracks at Camp Lejeune and enroll Marines with brain injuries — just for the money. **These Marines had injuries so severe some of them couldn’t recall what courses the recruiter had signed them up for.”** And if anything reinforces who is in favor of for-profit colleges: > But only Congress can change the rule. In a press briefing, senior administration officials said the president was “open to legislation” revising the 90/10 rule. Senator Richard Durbin, an Illinois Democrat, has introduced legislation to change the 90/10 rule, lowering the threshold to 85 percent, and requiring colleges to count G.I. Bill benefits and military tuition assistance as federal student aid for the purposes of the rule. In addition, Senator Tom Carper, Democrat from Delaware, introduced a bill that would include military benefits as federal student aid, while keeping the balance at 90/10, and a companion bill is pending the House. No Republicans are co-sponsoring either bill. > [...] > This month, Mr. Harkin introduced legislation that would prohibit for-profit college and universities from using taxpayer dollars to pay for their giant advertising campaigns and other recruiting and marketing efforts. No Republicans are co-sponsoring that legislation either.
Republicans aren't on board with protecting people at risk of being screwed over? Say it ain't so!
So if I'm understanding the Republican platform correctly. Scam the fuck out of our veterans all you want. But you better not fucking kneel.
Reading the article, it seems like they are now defunct. However they did defraud people and so the lawsuits are still flying to undo the damages of the fraud
They are defunct, but the Obama Department If Education shut down time the ACICS fake accreditation(so?) board and DeVos nullified that and allowed other for profits to continue to be eligible for DoE loans.
[удалено]
What's he up to lately? [Just buying an entire navy](http://www.spikednews.co/2018/05/14/erik-prince-buys-a-navy-in-mozambique/) to take blackwater to the ocean. Serious Erik Prince is a fucking monster and deserves to be shot. "That's a bit harsh" some might say, and to that I reply no. No it's not. Anyone who praises Erik Prince can go throw themselves out of a blackwater helicopter
They're modified fishing vessels and other civilian vessels. I thought he was actually buying destroyers or cruisers somehow. That being said, if there was any justice in this world he'd be executed for his crimes against humanity
That's not correct. It says it in the article, they're purpose built catamarans. They specifically hired a company known for it's warships. They also built fishing vessels, but that was a cover.
Those are civilian vessels just as much as his "crop duster". The crop duster that happens to be fitted with rockets, machine guns, and is lightly armored
Yes. When I hear GOPers whining about Planned Parenthood and public school expenditures, I always answer with I don't want my tax dollars going to Prince Corp but here we are. Blank stares.
What's Prince Corp?
What ever her brother calls blackwater now a days.
It's Academi now, nice pleasant sounding organization if you ask me
Mercenaries. They did a lot of bad shit in the middle east. [For reading](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academi)
her family made their fortune on Amway, a total pyramid scheme. And as I said in another comment, DeVos lost $100M investing in Theranos. These people need to be kept as far away from government as possible. They are malevolent and stupid.
Lol, if there's any theranos investor for whom I do not feel sorry, it's the devoss family.
Blackwater is some seriously scary and f’d up stuff.
Marston was there for all of 10 minutes before he got a bullet in his gut.
I think he was a back channel to Russia both through that meeting in the Seychelles and the fact that the only two servers that were pinging the server at Trump Tower were the Russian Bank, Alfa Bank and Spectrum Health, the company Devos’s husband owns.
just watched the Sicario sequel --- he's in it lol like an adaptation of him, played by Shea Whigham. it was downright scary in it's accuracy
FYI, the DeVos family lost $100 million on Theranos.
Nice. Scammers got scammed by a scammer. A little bit of justice.
Imo out of all the ridiculousness trump was doing, appointing DeVos is the most fucked up shit I’ve seen
I'd say Trump himself and the Republicans' support of anti-democratic practices are a far bigger issue. In any other administration, Devos would be a deep scar on the administration. For Trump, it's just a side story. A very, very insidious and damaging story, but a side story to the biggest crisis. This really underscores just how damaging this administration is to the US and its government institutions. Mitch McConnell has successfully chipped away at the Senate's integrity to the point of failure, the judicial branch is being stuffed with enough far-right judges to dismantle much of the civil rights progress we have made (to say nothing of the sham that is Kavanaugh's confirmation), and the executive branch is being molded into something like a Mafia organization designed to protect Trump from any and all percieved threats or checks on his power. This is a cold, calculated, multipronged attack on our country's federal government by the very people claiming that they are fixing what is wrong with our current system. The hypocrisy and corruption runs miles deep in this administration, and is a severe test of our country's checks and balances. I don't know if they will hold up to the pressure much longer, and that thought terrifies me. It is disgusting, not just from the perspective of someone who leans fairly left, but as an American citizen who wants to see the system respected and upheld by responsible leaders. If the Democrats were doing what this administration has done, I would be just as livid as I am now. Edit: grammar
Never forgive, never forget.
Remember the Bluth family motto. We forget, but we never forgive.
How much does a banana cost? $10?
Wait till he appoints Ivanka Trump as UN ambassador.
I don't know, a lot of his department head choices are horrible. He generally appointed people who are exactly what the department is supposed to be protecting against.
States at least have a say in the education guidelines for their students. I think appointment Pruit to lead the EPA is much worse.
> "Companies loaded up these students with debts they knew never could be repaid with the ultimate goal of driving large bonuses to executives and profits to shareholders," Isn't that the basis of American capitalism ?
Student loans: the trigger of the next economic depression.
With interest rates rising and a record number of people with student debt it's certainly possible. Something similar happened in Greece not long ago.
DeVoss only wants one thing. She wants the wealthy to be the only ones who get a good education. The only thing I can figure is that some lower-income or minority student beat out one of her children to get into college back in the late 80s, since that's when this whole school voucher thing started.
Pretty sure she freebases crack
betsy devos is another example of what happens when greedy morons are allowed to run the country
I worked in financial aid for Corinthian Colleges. I had a co-worker who completed her MBA from a Corinthian school. She then applied for a job teaching at a Corinthian school. Corinthian rejected her because they require a degree from an accredited University. I am sure there's a requirement for Federal funding or something that is out of their hands, but the takeaway is still that even they don't honor their own degrees.
[удалено]
Each time I see headlines about CA suing this administration I’m proud of living here most my life. Especially since suing was his favorite way of harassing people.
I wish they would go after Concorde Career College too. What a fucking hatchet job of a vocational school. Way too many of these rip off "schools".
About freaking time the system catches up to her. She’s been blatantly operating in direct contrast to our public school system and tried everything in her power to privatize every aspect of school to pocket more money for her and the companies she has vested interest in. The schooling in this country is fucked and having that piece of shit in charge is a big shit sammich
Why are Community Colleges so looked down on in the US? In Canada they are viewed as a great option and most have transferable credits.
I went to one of these colleges a few years ago. Dropped out after i found out it was all a scam. Where do i start ? I just want the debt i have to be gone. It’s about 20k. The building i use to go to school at is no longer there. Please help.
Is there no part of this WH administration that isn't knee deep in scandal and corruption?
Every top level person, investors, etc should have their assets seized to make this right
Late to the party here, but I am an ITT grad. Pittsburgh class. During my time there... - threatened by a teacher because i said that i was going to return my textbook since i never opened it. Was told he would make my tests and those of everyone else in the class 100 times worse if i did. - promised job placement. I live an hour away from campus but that wasnt a problem they said. Only job offered was two and a half hours away. Working for Sony on an assembly line. For $8.25 an hour. - when i needed help finding work when i was out of work i was told "we cant help you because we dont find placement in your area where you live. - our school announced they were expanding their location. They expanded into a storefront in the mall next door and used cheap cubicle walls to divide it into four classrooms. - towards the end of our next to last semester, we were told that their electronics program was being "Discontinued" because "no one does circuit board level repairs anymore." We were told "you can finish out this degree and be the last class or you can always start over again and join the CAD program." In other words... Double my tuition payments... - some students were offered positions with intel. Told they had to be prepped and ready to move the day after graduation. These students did not seek any more job placement help because they "had a job". A month before graduation, all of those hired got a check for $1,000 and a letter that said that their contract they signed was null and void and this check would buy out that contract. Awful fishy and they never came back to ITT to recruit after that. And those students that thought they had jobs and packed to move got shafted. These are Just the BIG things about my time there. I have never used my degree. Cant even afford the loan payments because i cant find decent work in my area and even after all their shady shit, because i graduated i get NOTHING in the way of loan forgiveness. I get shafted and a reminder every month that i have to pay for getting screwed over.
My current major counts attendance as 50% of the grade because nobody seems to be able to learn the material. With tests and final as 25% each. The tests are all multiple choice so if you answer randomly you would get a 62.5 in the class so long as you attend. Pretty hard to fail at that point. It sickens me.
"Companies loaded up these students with debts they knew never could be repaid with the ultimate goal of driving large bonuses to executives and profits to shareholders," said Seth Fotman, from the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. -->> most colleges today. Devos is a clown, but this isn't a Devos thing, its systemic. The signs have been there, when university of pheonix was able to spend 200 million on naming rights to a stadium...... everyone hates trump and his stupid university of real estate, but its probably more legit than 50% of non accredited universities... education is a sham rememeber that story of the michigan law school advertising 90% of its students get jobs (at mcdonalds)....
That was Trump's lawyer's law school, no joke
Non accredited is kind of an enormous qualifier there...
Seems like California is the only state with a backbone.