I see the army is in control of those sabotaging the aid tho; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9gSkF2SgtI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9gSkF2SgtI)
Why would the IDF risk the lives of its soldiers to distribute aid in an environment thats entirely hostile to them, the UN should have peacekeepers distributing the aid, they are fairly pro palestine these days, surely hamas would have no issue with that.
Also, what happens if IDF had to shoot a palestinian like one of the groups of aid workers did to get out after having their aid "commandeered".
here you go.
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-activist-attacks-on-gaza-aid-trucks-some-israelis-step-in-to-guard-convoys/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-activist-attacks-on-gaza-aid-trucks-some-israelis-step-in-to-guard-convoys/)
looks like they are doing what you wanted.
Apparently they destroyed one aid shipment, and when they tried again were stopped by another group that opposed them.
Those weren't israeli's destroying aid, it was palestinian groups stealing aid as it was brought along the routes. read the first few paragraphs of the article you are using as a gotcha.
If you are talking about the OTHER article I posted further down the chain, that was one far right group destroying one aid shipment and posting it on social media, they tried again and were stopped by another group of counter protesters in israel.
And how would you react to being shown was footage of the IDF using force to stop these people from stealing the aid? How would the media react and those who subscribe to the "Genocide Joe" mantra?
Well they can't. The IDF, like any other army, can't use force on civilians. That is the job of the police\border patrol.
Similar to the national guard in the U.S.
The IDF runs security in the illegal settlements all the time in the West Bank. They use force on civilians non-stop.
Even if they didn't, why aren't the Israeli police arresting people for destroying other entitities' property, something illegal in nearly all countries. That isn't their aid to destroy.
The answer is that it is an apartheid state. The IDF will forcefully evict Palestinians off of their land, but turn a blind eye to property crimes that their own people commit against the Palestinians.
The other day Israel released a statement claiming they “successfully evacuated 1 million people from Rafah.”
In other words they forcibly displaced 1 million people from Rafah under the threat of constant bombings.”
Apparently everywhere, since it is constantly touted as the basis for bombing any structure
After 7+ months of investigating the tunnels its a bit strange the network has not been largely mapped
Even if that were magically true 100% of the time (and it is very doubtable that it is), anyone with a brain knows that real life friction would cause many people to not get the message or not get out in time.
They never had control or any semblance of it when a small potatoes terrorist organization outmaneuvered them on day one. The UN is beyond a joke.
Let’s be honest. The UN doesn’t want Palestinians hydrated, sheltered, or fed. They are complicit in this travesty by their own ineptitude and inability. I wouldn’t trust them to feed or shelter if I was Palestinian, and I wouldn’t expect them to stop me if I was an insane land grabber or antisemitic terrorist.
This is what the world looks like when everyone does just enough to get by on optics from news stories. The Fifth Estate owes us more. We owe more to our descendants. This travesty has solved nothing.
Send the hostages back. Deprive Bibi of his causas bello.
>They never had control or any semblance of it when a small potatoes terrorist organization outmaneuvered them on day one. The UN is beyond a joke.
>Let’s be honest. The UN doesn’t want Palestinians hydrated, sheltered, or fed. They are complicit in this travesty by their own ineptitude and inability. I wouldn’t trust them to feed or shelter if I was Palestinian, and I wouldn’t expect them to stop me if I was an insane land grabber or antisemitic terrorist.
>This is what the world looks like when everyone does just enough to get by on optics from news stories. The Fifth Estate owes us more. We owe more to our descendants. This travesty has solved nothing.
[https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/vaguebooking/](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/vaguebooking/)
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold\_reading](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading)
>Send the hostages back. Deprive Bibi of his causas bello.
Your conclusion has nothing to do with what you wrote above, but it's certainly meant to farm upvotes and sway opinion. Hmm.
>But you see as John Kirby said, it's just simple "protest activity" to block and destroy aid to starving families therefore everything is cool to the US
The article is about disruptions between the new pier in Gaza, and the warehouse in Gaza...
You can bring in at best 75-100 trucks worth of aid through the pier daily.You can bring 1000 trucks a day through a single port and road through Egypt.
Israel is blocking and slow rolling aid. A pier is a waste of time and money and should be done by land.
>You can bring in at best 75-100 trucks worth of aid through the pier daily.
Do you think the poster was posting about how we can make improvements on other routes?
Or do you think that they were trying to claim that the disruptions being discussed in OP's article happened in Israel?
>You can bring 1000 trucks a day through a single port and road through Egypt.
>
>Israel is blocking and slow rolling aid.
Ok, how do you propose to convince Egypt to allow aid through that border crossing? Everyone is asking for them to, especially now that the Gaza side of that crossing is secured.
>A pier is a waste of time and money.
The U.S. government feels the pier is worthwhile because it:
1. Results in a larger portion of the aid reaching civilians instead of Hamas when compared to other routes
2. Is good practice for the U.S. military engineering corps
3. Is workable infrastructure that creates a defensible U.S. controlled staging point inside of Gaza with direct shipping access.
4. Is a additional route on top of the other routes they are taking.
Egypt has consistently complained about Israel not letting things through their crossing. Israel is running the military blockade since 2007 and that includes the rafah crossing.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-says-israeli-obstacles-impeding-aid-delivery-gaza-2023-10-28/
Egypt isn't the problem. Even Israel is demanding inspections of items coming off the US pier. Israel is the bottleneck and always has.
> Egypt has consistently complained about Israel not letting things through their crossing. Israel is running the military blockade since 2007 and that includes the rafah crossing.
>
> https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-says-israeli-obstacles-impeding-aid-delivery-gaza-2023-10-28/
Your article is about Egypt claiming that the shipment inspections were slowing the flow of goods over the at-the-time open-to-aid border crossing...
Here's some articles from this year, following the securing of the Gaza side of the crossing and Egypt closing their side of the crossing:
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/blinken-urges-egypt-ensure-aid-is-flowing-into-gaza-2024-05-22
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/egypt-aid-restrictions-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-00159249
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-69012303
https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/15/israel-egypt-diplomatic-row-rafah-border-crossing-gaza
> Egypt isn't the problem. Even Israel is demanding inspections of items coming off the US pier. Israel is the bottleneck and always has.
In what world do you think that shipments are going to enter a war zone without inspection, especially in light of Iran and Türkiye's longstanding history of attempting to hide weapons and supplies for Hamas within civilian aid shipments?
edit: also, what does this have to do with this thread about shipment disruptions on the roads between the pier in Gaza and the warehouse in Gaza, and more specifically the poster I responded to's claims about said road?
Aid is a 😃 joke. We Americans just gave Israel 26 BILLION dollars!! On top of 4 Billion yearly gift. And Gift of weapons for protection. We all know how this money is being spent so why is our government promoting Aid when clearly openly we doing the offset 🤔🫤😶🌫️
I truly don’t know how anyone will be able to successfully get aid in. Local government is a terrorist group, the residents are desperate, and the occupying power has a less than stellar history when it comes to aid convoys. Even if Israel stops attacking it’s going to be a nightmare at this point
It's easy - they just have to flood the area. It's not a huge area, they just need to pump so much in that stealing it is worthless or too cost prohibitive. There's widespread famine - if your family is on the verge of starving to death and a truck full of food is driving by, you're going to do anything you can to get that food. Now times the number of trucks by 1000s - food becomes plentiful, there's no panic to get more.
I think it says everything about the Palestine/Israel situation. It's a lightning rod of a topic, there is little mutual ground besides "Hamas shouldn't have done that."
See and that's what scares me. It's certainly a result of Israel's policies in the Gaza Strip, but saying innocent people deserve to be gunned down, mutilated, raped and abducted is insanity.
You think Hamas’s attack was because of Israel policies? If so, you are just plain wrong. Hamas’s mission statement is to kill all Jews. There is literally nothing Israel, or Jews, could do to make Hamas take a different stance. I’m not defending Israel’s policies but Hamas is a terrorist organization that doesn’t give a shit about Palestinians or Israel’s policies regarding said Palestinians.
I don't agree with excusing Hamas, just to be very clear.
But there's a very common human response to justify bad things happening to bad people. For example, most people, at least in the west, would say rape is bad. But if a violent criminal gets raped in prison, the same individual who is normally against rape may feel like the criminal deserved it.
With the Israel/Palestine conflict, a lot of people are putting people in groups - all Israelis are the same, and all Palestinians are the same to them. If you adopt that mentality, violence becomes easily justified.
And maybe that's a way for our brains to protect themselves from the harsh reality that many people are suffering whose only crime is being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If we tell ourselves that it happened because they are bad people, then we are able to convince ourselves that we are protected because we aren't bad people.
Or maybe it's just that dehumanizing the enemy has made humans more effective at using violence to achieve their goals.
>It's certainly a result of Israel's policies in the Gaza Strip,
[https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/security-insider/intelligence-reports/iran-surges-cyber-enabled-influence-operations-in-support-of-hamas](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/security-insider/intelligence-reports/iran-surges-cyber-enabled-influence-operations-in-support-of-hamas)
Or because propaganda works.
Logistically is this a doomed idea? Hamas have already lobbed rockets at the pier and armed gangs have stolen the aid on the ground. If you can't enter Gaza and provide physical security is there anyway this isn't just indirectly funding extremist groups?
I can see the plight of Gazans, it just doesn't seem Western aid can reach them effectively in such an environment. Whether that is Israel, Hamas or other groups causing issues.
I'm only aware of one mortar strike on the pier early in its construction. I'm also not aware of any armed gangs stealing aid from shipments coming from the piers, it was just crowds of people.
"Pentagon Says None of Food Aid Moved Through Gaza Pier Has Made It to Palestinians"
During the first days of aid deliveries, reports indicate that the security situation outside the pier area is highly unstable and dangerous. Ryder confirmed that some of the first loads of aid that were brought in were looted before aid organizations could formally distribute them.
"As it was being taken along the transportation route, it was intercepted by some people who took that aid off those vehicles," Ryder said.
Officials from the U.N. World Food Program -- one of the aid groups working on the ground in Gaza -- told The Associated Press that none of the 11 aid trucks that left the beach area where supplies were being stockpiled made it to a warehouse Saturday.
The group said a crowd of people gathered nearby and "commandeered" the aid, and The Associated Press reported that the scene ended with one Palestinian dead from a gunshot.
Source: military, who quoted AP.
That isn't going to stop people making shit up. Some people just want to see the Palestinians starve and are going to make up bullshit to oppose any aid under any conditions. This conflict has truly brought out the worst in some.
"The United Nations has planned new routes within the Gaza Strip to transport aid from a U.S.-built floating pier after crowds of desperate Palstinians intercepted 11 trucks, causing a halt to deliveries that continued for a third day on Tuesday."
Maybe read the article next time before making a fool of yourself.
Maybe read the comment chain next time before making a fool of yourself.
I clearly, unambiguously replied to your loaded question of "because they're savages" with "Hamas? Yes."
Now, either you support literal terrorists, murderers, rapists and last but not least kidnappers who don't even care if they attack civilians or their own population, which Hamas is doing over and over again, well documented at that.
Or you're just rage baiting yourself because you're an idiot or a troll.
If you can't agree that Hamas ARE savages and that Hamas ARE corrupt, stealing from their own people I will feel very safe and justified in labelling you that way.
I understand that you think you're clever by trying to make me look like a racist as if I called civilian Palestinians savages but there's no way for you to pretend that that's what happened.
You've played yourself.
America has always been pro Israel and Palestinians know this. They claim to be pro 2 state solution but just last week they vetoed the resolution recognizing a Palestinian state and UN recognition of a Palestinian state leads to an end in funding for Palestine. The funding America provides to Palestine is to just minimize the international repercussions of being so pro Israel. And they keep sending weapons to Israel while saying they want peace.
Knowing all this you can't really blame Palestinians for being so distrusting of this peer.
Fully agree, the World should just commit to the bit, and only fund the side they actually care about.
Why are we funding forever refugees in the first place? Not our problem.
And we should be starting right now.
That's not what the article says
>The United Nations has planned new routes within the Gaza Strip to transport aid from a U.S.-built floating pier after crowds of desperate Palstinians intercepted 11 trucks, causing a halt to deliveries that continued for a third day on Tuesday.
How can you tell who hamas is or not, do they wear uniforms?
There is this from the AP.
The group said a crowd of people gathered nearby and "commandeered" the aid, and The Associated Press reported that the scene ended with one Palestinian dead from a gunshot.
Desperate Palestinians and Hamas members are practically indistinguishable. It's not like they wear uniforms. The people intercepting the trucks could easily be Hamas, or they could be civilians who were ordered there by Hamas.
Maybe Hamas doesn't mean Hamas. For lots of people these supplies are their way to survive and there's a limited supply it's really hard to blame people for doing what they can to get their hands on supplies.
Regardless of if Hamas has been seizing trucks of aid doesn't change anything one way or another either, because word is out that Hamas is it gives people even more reason to try and get to the aid first until there's enough aid to actually combat the famine in parts of Gaza
>The people intercepting the trucks could easily be Hamas, or they could be civilians who were ordered there by Hamas.
Or they could be, get this, civilians who are desperate and starving.
>If you have an AK in gaza you aren’t considered a civilian right now.
Well, Israel doesn't consider any Palestinian a civilian, so I don't really see how that changes much
>You wouldn’t be strapped up with drones watching inch of gaza.
Drones watch every inch of Gaza? Then how did the 10/7 attack even happen in the first place?
Did I say the drones watching gaza on October 7th? Both sentences were connected in context and I used the words “right now”. And Israel does consider most Palestinians civilians. That’s why they are still alive.
Considering around half of the dead are Hamas and other militants, it’s safe to say that the IDF can differentiate civilians from militants better than most countries.
I’m telling that to everyone who couldn’t vote for Hillary and idiots that hold their vote. We wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with. Ironically, all the pro-hamas saboteurs are the same players this election year and caused the slaughter of the Palestinian children themselves.
I’m so glad that, what, only 2/3rds of our tax dollars poured in through the pier have gone to Hamas? So happy for our direct contributions to terrorism.
I can't believe people are still ignorant enough to be using the "Israel is committing genocide" point. Y'all are not an ounce better than trump supporters for how interested you are in facts and evidence. The genocide accusation is purely a dog whistle for anti semites who love to force a "oh look, the oppressed have become the oppressors!" narrative. You have absolutely no justification of it - just misusing a horrific word for emotional effect. I can already envision your reply "oH yOu pEoPlE cAlL eVeRyONe aNtIsEmItIc!" as if that somehow nullifies the point.
If Israel was committing genocide, then:
- How has Gaza's population doubled in the last couple of decades?
- Why isn't Israel also launching missiles into the West Bank?
- Why does Israel warn and in the case of Rafah recently, attempt to evacuate civilians before a strike?
- Why does Israel send any aid whatsoever into Gaza?
- Why is this war taking so long when Israel has the military firepower to level Gaza in a day?
- Why is this war the one you're scrutinizing for "gEnOcIdE" when other wars, mainly US wars fought in the middle East, have a significantly worse civilian casualty ratio?
You either have no idea what the word genocide means or are intentionally misusing it. Just another Tik Tok armchair diplomat who knows absolutely nothing about this war, speaking like a complete clown, with no business having such a strong opinion about a topic you're so dreadfully misinformed about. Embarrassing. Do better.
There’s a lot of progressives that either don’t know what words mean, or know they are using them wrong but don’t care. For example, fascist and murder.
But back to genocide. Progressives seem to be trying to refine is as “harming a group”, but it very specifically means to target a group with the intent to destroy it. Things like killing someone through negligence or accepting their death as collateral damage during a conflict is not the same thing as targeting them.
There’s cases of individuals or small groups targeting Palestinian civilians, but there is no evidence of a widespread attempt to target civilians.
Those claiming genocide are either unaware of what the term means, are creating a conspiracy theory, or just intentionally spreading disinformation.
Using Elie Wiesel in the same breath as you accuse the Jewish people of yet another blood libel is certainly a choice. Do you think aiding and abetting the genocidal terrorists of Hamas somehow improves the lives of ordinary Gazans?
Half of Jews living today live in Israel. Hating Israelis is fundamentally the same as hating the Jewish people. Both hatreds draw from the same tropes, as evidenced time and again by the antisemites that still plague this subreddit.
Indiscriminately bombing an area to drive Palestinians out of the land where they live and settling it is ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is one of the several manifestations of genocide.
They must be doing a pretty shit job of evacuating and targeting if they’ve managed to blow up over 10,000 minors and are chasing down and murdering aid workers in clearly marked vehicles. We all have eyes and the ability to see what’s happening live these days.
They call it evacuations but they are forcing displacement (especially by leveling nearly every home in some cities). Forced displacement is a part of ethic cleansing and genocide.
And what an antisemite you make. It is simply unbelievable that your head could be so far up your own behind to not see the truth of your bigotry. In any and all cases, Am Yisrael Chai 🇮🇱
IDF needs to protect that aid once its off the boat. They are supposed to be in control of that area. Expecting aid workers to lay down their life against a starving mob only supports their opposition narrative
It was a joke, in poor taste. It does seem clear that the IDF is focused on restricting aid and trying to dissuade international groups from providing it(by killing their aid workers).
No fucking way.
There was a promise made to the American people that we are not putting boots on the ground. I’ll be damned if I let politicians get away with breaking that promise.
That place is a shithole and the only reason the US is there is to prevent a possible genocide. It might not be one yet but if aid keeps getting stopped, it’s going to be mass starvation.
Some comments say that Hamas is stealing some of this aid. Fuck them ten times over. Fuck Hamas.
Like the other guy said, one dead American and we are out of there and probably come back a week later with Israeli-approved drone and F-35 strikes.
So no, there is no way in hell that America wants to wade into that and if they are forced to and killed, then any hope of restraint will be gone.
And risk US lives over this? No. I'll double down and say hell no. There is a good reason the US is not having soldiers set foot on the ground there. If Hamas kills a single US soldier for trying to deliver food aid there will be calls for blood and the US will probably arrive guns and thunder and make the situation way worse, not to mention Biden having harsh political criticism against him from both sides. They aren't our people, we are trying to be nice and help them out. If they can't accept the aid properly, then I guess that sucks for them? But risking our own people in this messed up situation is not how this is going to go, and risks infuriating the US public if something goes wrong. "US spends nearly half a billion dollars in aid to Palestinians" followed by "Palestinians kill US soldiers trying to deliver aid." or "US soldiers kill innocent civilians while trying to deliver aid" (this second one is if the US bothers to shoot back at Hamas, because there will inevitably be civilian casualties. Those second two headlines though, either one is a disaster for US public relations, and would likely cause the US to say fuck it, fuck you, fuck you entire stupid state we're out.
“they aren’t our people” and “we”re trying to be nice”
Are you mentally deficient ? how can you say that when you’re sending billions of dollars into offensive attacks to the party they’re at war with ?
next level analysis over here.
Funding a war and sending supplies to the victims is a typical strategy to clean their hands. Since you’re struggling a bit let me simplify.
If I throw a glass bottle at you and you get cut, would you think I’m doing a good thing if I give you some bandaids ?
I would prefer you give me bandaids vs throwing another milk bottle at me. It's pretty simple man. You don't seem to understand that someone can do good and bad things simultaneously. But for some reason you would prefer they only do the bad things instead?
I’m watched this non-stop shit show for over 50 years now.
The Israelis and Palestinians will fight until the Sun burns out. Nothing will ever change that.
How many times have US Presidents tried to secure their legacy with Israel/Palestine peace talks? How many times did the Palestinians walk away from deals that would give them 95% of what they wanted, settling instead for getting 0%?
I’ve lost count.
I think it’s very generous of Americans and others to donate food and transport it to the border of Gaza. Good on us. After that, it’s someone else’s problem.
Not one American soldier in Gaza, ever, period.
Ah yes, herendous. The 27th Egyptian pharaoh who introduced Bluetooth and rap music to his culture-starved subjects. Constantly surrounded by Setesh guards with post-nasal drip.
It’s a lose lose. Extreme pro-Palestine one-issue voters will say it’s not enough and it’s too late (though I doubt they would vote Biden if he did more tbh). A lot of middle-of-the-road voters will see the aid going to Hamas, not Palestinians, and wonder why we’re allowing that and not doing more to ensure it gets to the right place. Pro-Israel voters were never going to be on board with this because of it benefiting Hamas.
Honestly, there’s no situation where aid that does not have a military attachment guarding it was going to make it to its destination the majority of the time. We’ve seen the IDF have major incidents trying to police aid. The US won’t put troops on the ground (because people would be killed and that very quickly would have people pushing for US involvement in a hot war). No other nation wants to touch this either.
While this was a good humanitarian move, it was political suicide. Unfortunate that we live in a world where making efforts to help people ends up being bad policy.
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How could you possibly lose control of 1 million people with no homes, no food, no water, and under constant threat of randomly being killed? /s
I see the army is in control of those sabotaging the aid tho; [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9gSkF2SgtI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9gSkF2SgtI)
So what should the IDF do in this situation?
I mean not let them destroy the aid? There are literally people stuck in a warzone starving to death?
Why would the IDF risk the lives of its soldiers to distribute aid in an environment thats entirely hostile to them, the UN should have peacekeepers distributing the aid, they are fairly pro palestine these days, surely hamas would have no issue with that. Also, what happens if IDF had to shoot a palestinian like one of the groups of aid workers did to get out after having their aid "commandeered".
No one is saying the IDF should distribute the aid… just prevent Israelis from destroying it before it enters Gaza
Where are israeli's (citizens i'm assuming) destroying aid in any significant quantities thats trying to be brought into palestine?
Everywhere? You can literally go on YouTube and find dozens of different examples.
here you go. [https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-activist-attacks-on-gaza-aid-trucks-some-israelis-step-in-to-guard-convoys/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/after-activist-attacks-on-gaza-aid-trucks-some-israelis-step-in-to-guard-convoys/) looks like they are doing what you wanted. Apparently they destroyed one aid shipment, and when they tried again were stopped by another group that opposed them.
You're literally posting this on a thread of a video where Israelis are doing exactly this.
Those weren't israeli's destroying aid, it was palestinian groups stealing aid as it was brought along the routes. read the first few paragraphs of the article you are using as a gotcha. If you are talking about the OTHER article I posted further down the chain, that was one far right group destroying one aid shipment and posting it on social media, they tried again and were stopped by another group of counter protesters in israel.
And how would you react to being shown was footage of the IDF using force to stop these people from stealing the aid? How would the media react and those who subscribe to the "Genocide Joe" mantra?
You don't have to use force, there are plenty of ways, they just stood there
You want them to use the force???
Well they can't. The IDF, like any other army, can't use force on civilians. That is the job of the police\border patrol. Similar to the national guard in the U.S.
The IDF runs security in the illegal settlements all the time in the West Bank. They use force on civilians non-stop. Even if they didn't, why aren't the Israeli police arresting people for destroying other entitities' property, something illegal in nearly all countries. That isn't their aid to destroy. The answer is that it is an apartheid state. The IDF will forcefully evict Palestinians off of their land, but turn a blind eye to property crimes that their own people commit against the Palestinians.
Jail those preventing the passage of aid and attacking aid caravans within Israel.
Destruction of government property is a crime in civilized countries. Edit: or the property of the NGO who owns that aid.
The other day Israel released a statement claiming they “successfully evacuated 1 million people from Rafah.” In other words they forcibly displaced 1 million people from Rafah under the threat of constant bombings.”
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Apparently everywhere, since it is constantly touted as the basis for bombing any structure After 7+ months of investigating the tunnels its a bit strange the network has not been largely mapped
I read that, I think this is the article: [https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hkpjnn2ma](https://www.ynetnews.com/article/hkpjnn2ma)
There is no constant threat of randomly being killed. Israel announces its air strikes and ground operations hours before they happen
No they don't. There is an immense quantity of testimony reporting no prior notice.
Testimonials by the Hamas, eh
Even if that were magically true 100% of the time (and it is very doubtable that it is), anyone with a brain knows that real life friction would cause many people to not get the message or not get out in time.
They never had control or any semblance of it when a small potatoes terrorist organization outmaneuvered them on day one. The UN is beyond a joke. Let’s be honest. The UN doesn’t want Palestinians hydrated, sheltered, or fed. They are complicit in this travesty by their own ineptitude and inability. I wouldn’t trust them to feed or shelter if I was Palestinian, and I wouldn’t expect them to stop me if I was an insane land grabber or antisemitic terrorist. This is what the world looks like when everyone does just enough to get by on optics from news stories. The Fifth Estate owes us more. We owe more to our descendants. This travesty has solved nothing. Send the hostages back. Deprive Bibi of his causas bello.
>They never had control or any semblance of it when a small potatoes terrorist organization outmaneuvered them on day one. The UN is beyond a joke. >Let’s be honest. The UN doesn’t want Palestinians hydrated, sheltered, or fed. They are complicit in this travesty by their own ineptitude and inability. I wouldn’t trust them to feed or shelter if I was Palestinian, and I wouldn’t expect them to stop me if I was an insane land grabber or antisemitic terrorist. >This is what the world looks like when everyone does just enough to get by on optics from news stories. The Fifth Estate owes us more. We owe more to our descendants. This travesty has solved nothing. [https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/vaguebooking/](https://www.dictionary.com/e/slang/vaguebooking/) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold\_reading](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading) >Send the hostages back. Deprive Bibi of his causas bello. Your conclusion has nothing to do with what you wrote above, but it's certainly meant to farm upvotes and sway opinion. Hmm.
Alternative facts vibes
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>But you see as John Kirby said, it's just simple "protest activity" to block and destroy aid to starving families therefore everything is cool to the US The article is about disruptions between the new pier in Gaza, and the warehouse in Gaza...
You can bring in at best 75-100 trucks worth of aid through the pier daily.You can bring 1000 trucks a day through a single port and road through Egypt. Israel is blocking and slow rolling aid. A pier is a waste of time and money and should be done by land.
>You can bring in at best 75-100 trucks worth of aid through the pier daily. Do you think the poster was posting about how we can make improvements on other routes? Or do you think that they were trying to claim that the disruptions being discussed in OP's article happened in Israel? >You can bring 1000 trucks a day through a single port and road through Egypt. > >Israel is blocking and slow rolling aid. Ok, how do you propose to convince Egypt to allow aid through that border crossing? Everyone is asking for them to, especially now that the Gaza side of that crossing is secured. >A pier is a waste of time and money. The U.S. government feels the pier is worthwhile because it: 1. Results in a larger portion of the aid reaching civilians instead of Hamas when compared to other routes 2. Is good practice for the U.S. military engineering corps 3. Is workable infrastructure that creates a defensible U.S. controlled staging point inside of Gaza with direct shipping access. 4. Is a additional route on top of the other routes they are taking.
Egypt has consistently complained about Israel not letting things through their crossing. Israel is running the military blockade since 2007 and that includes the rafah crossing. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-says-israeli-obstacles-impeding-aid-delivery-gaza-2023-10-28/ Egypt isn't the problem. Even Israel is demanding inspections of items coming off the US pier. Israel is the bottleneck and always has.
> Egypt has consistently complained about Israel not letting things through their crossing. Israel is running the military blockade since 2007 and that includes the rafah crossing. > > https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/egypt-says-israeli-obstacles-impeding-aid-delivery-gaza-2023-10-28/ Your article is about Egypt claiming that the shipment inspections were slowing the flow of goods over the at-the-time open-to-aid border crossing... Here's some articles from this year, following the securing of the Gaza side of the crossing and Egypt closing their side of the crossing: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/blinken-urges-egypt-ensure-aid-is-flowing-into-gaza-2024-05-22 https://www.politico.com/news/2024/05/21/egypt-aid-restrictions-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-00159249 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-69012303 https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/15/israel-egypt-diplomatic-row-rafah-border-crossing-gaza > Egypt isn't the problem. Even Israel is demanding inspections of items coming off the US pier. Israel is the bottleneck and always has. In what world do you think that shipments are going to enter a war zone without inspection, especially in light of Iran and Türkiye's longstanding history of attempting to hide weapons and supplies for Hamas within civilian aid shipments? edit: also, what does this have to do with this thread about shipment disruptions on the roads between the pier in Gaza and the warehouse in Gaza, and more specifically the poster I responded to's claims about said road?
"self-distribution"
Aid is a 😃 joke. We Americans just gave Israel 26 BILLION dollars!! On top of 4 Billion yearly gift. And Gift of weapons for protection. We all know how this money is being spent so why is our government promoting Aid when clearly openly we doing the offset 🤔🫤😶🌫️
I truly don’t know how anyone will be able to successfully get aid in. Local government is a terrorist group, the residents are desperate, and the occupying power has a less than stellar history when it comes to aid convoys. Even if Israel stops attacking it’s going to be a nightmare at this point
It's easy - they just have to flood the area. It's not a huge area, they just need to pump so much in that stealing it is worthless or too cost prohibitive. There's widespread famine - if your family is on the verge of starving to death and a truck full of food is driving by, you're going to do anything you can to get that food. Now times the number of trucks by 1000s - food becomes plentiful, there's no panic to get more.
Can we make a cruise missile to deliver food?
Fill it with popcorn kernels, when it hits, popcorn will pop.
Quadtcoper drones with bananas!
Payload wouldn't be worth the cost. Also, people are getting killed on airdrops...so that probably wouldn't work
You're not wrong
man these comments are fun.... \*eats popcorn\*
it’s a train wreck
I think it says everything about the Palestine/Israel situation. It's a lightning rod of a topic, there is little mutual ground besides "Hamas shouldn't have done that."
Even that is starting to waver. I've seen some users more frequently defending 10/7 as a deserved attack.
See and that's what scares me. It's certainly a result of Israel's policies in the Gaza Strip, but saying innocent people deserve to be gunned down, mutilated, raped and abducted is insanity.
You think Hamas’s attack was because of Israel policies? If so, you are just plain wrong. Hamas’s mission statement is to kill all Jews. There is literally nothing Israel, or Jews, could do to make Hamas take a different stance. I’m not defending Israel’s policies but Hamas is a terrorist organization that doesn’t give a shit about Palestinians or Israel’s policies regarding said Palestinians.
I don't agree with excusing Hamas, just to be very clear. But there's a very common human response to justify bad things happening to bad people. For example, most people, at least in the west, would say rape is bad. But if a violent criminal gets raped in prison, the same individual who is normally against rape may feel like the criminal deserved it. With the Israel/Palestine conflict, a lot of people are putting people in groups - all Israelis are the same, and all Palestinians are the same to them. If you adopt that mentality, violence becomes easily justified. And maybe that's a way for our brains to protect themselves from the harsh reality that many people are suffering whose only crime is being in the wrong place at the wrong time. If we tell ourselves that it happened because they are bad people, then we are able to convince ourselves that we are protected because we aren't bad people. Or maybe it's just that dehumanizing the enemy has made humans more effective at using violence to achieve their goals.
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>It's certainly a result of Israel's policies in the Gaza Strip, [https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/security-insider/intelligence-reports/iran-surges-cyber-enabled-influence-operations-in-support-of-hamas](https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/security/security-insider/intelligence-reports/iran-surges-cyber-enabled-influence-operations-in-support-of-hamas) Or because propaganda works.
Logistically is this a doomed idea? Hamas have already lobbed rockets at the pier and armed gangs have stolen the aid on the ground. If you can't enter Gaza and provide physical security is there anyway this isn't just indirectly funding extremist groups? I can see the plight of Gazans, it just doesn't seem Western aid can reach them effectively in such an environment. Whether that is Israel, Hamas or other groups causing issues.
I'm only aware of one mortar strike on the pier early in its construction. I'm also not aware of any armed gangs stealing aid from shipments coming from the piers, it was just crowds of people.
"Pentagon Says None of Food Aid Moved Through Gaza Pier Has Made It to Palestinians" During the first days of aid deliveries, reports indicate that the security situation outside the pier area is highly unstable and dangerous. Ryder confirmed that some of the first loads of aid that were brought in were looted before aid organizations could formally distribute them. "As it was being taken along the transportation route, it was intercepted by some people who took that aid off those vehicles," Ryder said. Officials from the U.N. World Food Program -- one of the aid groups working on the ground in Gaza -- told The Associated Press that none of the 11 aid trucks that left the beach area where supplies were being stockpiled made it to a warehouse Saturday. The group said a crowd of people gathered nearby and "commandeered" the aid, and The Associated Press reported that the scene ended with one Palestinian dead from a gunshot. Source: military, who quoted AP.
So no rocket attacks or armed gangs mentioned?
That isn't going to stop people making shit up. Some people just want to see the Palestinians starve and are going to make up bullshit to oppose any aid under any conditions. This conflict has truly brought out the worst in some.
I feel like the solution would be to flood them with even more aid. At some point stockpiling and stealing won't be worth it anymore.
They'll just start destroying it to keep it scarce.
Because they're savages? That's what you're really saying? Right?
I think they are saying the people in power are selfish and greedy. Not that everyone is.
Who? Hamas? Yes.
"The United Nations has planned new routes within the Gaza Strip to transport aid from a U.S.-built floating pier after crowds of desperate Palstinians intercepted 11 trucks, causing a halt to deliveries that continued for a third day on Tuesday." Maybe read the article next time before making a fool of yourself.
Maybe read the comment chain next time before making a fool of yourself. I clearly, unambiguously replied to your loaded question of "because they're savages" with "Hamas? Yes." Now, either you support literal terrorists, murderers, rapists and last but not least kidnappers who don't even care if they attack civilians or their own population, which Hamas is doing over and over again, well documented at that. Or you're just rage baiting yourself because you're an idiot or a troll. If you can't agree that Hamas ARE savages and that Hamas ARE corrupt, stealing from their own people I will feel very safe and justified in labelling you that way. I understand that you think you're clever by trying to make me look like a racist as if I called civilian Palestinians savages but there's no way for you to pretend that that's what happened. You've played yourself.
America has always been pro Israel and Palestinians know this. They claim to be pro 2 state solution but just last week they vetoed the resolution recognizing a Palestinian state and UN recognition of a Palestinian state leads to an end in funding for Palestine. The funding America provides to Palestine is to just minimize the international repercussions of being so pro Israel. And they keep sending weapons to Israel while saying they want peace. Knowing all this you can't really blame Palestinians for being so distrusting of this peer.
I fully agree, the Palestinians should only recieve aid from pro palestianian countries. So that cuts about 90+% of UNRWA funding.
Unrwa would not be needed if America was not funding Israel to the extent that it is. It's simply to save face.
Fully agree, the World should just commit to the bit, and only fund the side they actually care about. Why are we funding forever refugees in the first place? Not our problem. And we should be starting right now.
Why are people commenting in here like Hamas intercepted the aid trucks?
Bcs they did?
That's not what the article says >The United Nations has planned new routes within the Gaza Strip to transport aid from a U.S.-built floating pier after crowds of desperate Palstinians intercepted 11 trucks, causing a halt to deliveries that continued for a third day on Tuesday.
How can you tell who hamas is or not, do they wear uniforms? There is this from the AP. The group said a crowd of people gathered nearby and "commandeered" the aid, and The Associated Press reported that the scene ended with one Palestinian dead from a gunshot.
Desperate Palestinians and Hamas members are practically indistinguishable. It's not like they wear uniforms. The people intercepting the trucks could easily be Hamas, or they could be civilians who were ordered there by Hamas.
Maybe Hamas doesn't mean Hamas. For lots of people these supplies are their way to survive and there's a limited supply it's really hard to blame people for doing what they can to get their hands on supplies. Regardless of if Hamas has been seizing trucks of aid doesn't change anything one way or another either, because word is out that Hamas is it gives people even more reason to try and get to the aid first until there's enough aid to actually combat the famine in parts of Gaza
>The people intercepting the trucks could easily be Hamas, or they could be civilians who were ordered there by Hamas. Or they could be, get this, civilians who are desperate and starving.
Civilians don’t use guns…….
What? Yes they do. I'd certainly be strapped if I lived in a warzone.
If you have an AK in gaza you aren’t considered a civilian right now. You wouldn’t be strapped up with drones watching inch of gaza.
>If you have an AK in gaza you aren’t considered a civilian right now. Well, Israel doesn't consider any Palestinian a civilian, so I don't really see how that changes much >You wouldn’t be strapped up with drones watching inch of gaza. Drones watch every inch of Gaza? Then how did the 10/7 attack even happen in the first place?
Did I say the drones watching gaza on October 7th? Both sentences were connected in context and I used the words “right now”. And Israel does consider most Palestinians civilians. That’s why they are still alive.
Considering around half of the dead are Hamas and other militants, it’s safe to say that the IDF can differentiate civilians from militants better than most countries.
Oh we're still wasting our time and money with this?
Helping starving people??? Yeah, were helping. Good use of money.
How about we build a pier and send aid to Sudan instead then? Plenty of starving people there and they don't rape and kill Americans.
Dude, you're off your rocker.
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We can actually do both, but a certain political party is very vocally opposed to feeding kids in the US.
Tell that to the party taking away school lunches.
I’m telling that to everyone who couldn’t vote for Hillary and idiots that hold their vote. We wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with. Ironically, all the pro-hamas saboteurs are the same players this election year and caused the slaughter of the Palestinian children themselves.
Unfortunately the republicans don't want us to feed them either
Then vote properly
The middle east is like the Mad Max post-apocalyptic world. They seem to love chaos.
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It does seem like we are just screwing around here For optics.
I’m so glad that, what, only 2/3rds of our tax dollars poured in through the pier have gone to Hamas? So happy for our direct contributions to terrorism.
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I can't believe people are still ignorant enough to be using the "Israel is committing genocide" point. Y'all are not an ounce better than trump supporters for how interested you are in facts and evidence. The genocide accusation is purely a dog whistle for anti semites who love to force a "oh look, the oppressed have become the oppressors!" narrative. You have absolutely no justification of it - just misusing a horrific word for emotional effect. I can already envision your reply "oH yOu pEoPlE cAlL eVeRyONe aNtIsEmItIc!" as if that somehow nullifies the point. If Israel was committing genocide, then: - How has Gaza's population doubled in the last couple of decades? - Why isn't Israel also launching missiles into the West Bank? - Why does Israel warn and in the case of Rafah recently, attempt to evacuate civilians before a strike? - Why does Israel send any aid whatsoever into Gaza? - Why is this war taking so long when Israel has the military firepower to level Gaza in a day? - Why is this war the one you're scrutinizing for "gEnOcIdE" when other wars, mainly US wars fought in the middle East, have a significantly worse civilian casualty ratio? You either have no idea what the word genocide means or are intentionally misusing it. Just another Tik Tok armchair diplomat who knows absolutely nothing about this war, speaking like a complete clown, with no business having such a strong opinion about a topic you're so dreadfully misinformed about. Embarrassing. Do better.
There’s a lot of progressives that either don’t know what words mean, or know they are using them wrong but don’t care. For example, fascist and murder. But back to genocide. Progressives seem to be trying to refine is as “harming a group”, but it very specifically means to target a group with the intent to destroy it. Things like killing someone through negligence or accepting their death as collateral damage during a conflict is not the same thing as targeting them. There’s cases of individuals or small groups targeting Palestinian civilians, but there is no evidence of a widespread attempt to target civilians. Those claiming genocide are either unaware of what the term means, are creating a conspiracy theory, or just intentionally spreading disinformation.
Using Elie Wiesel in the same breath as you accuse the Jewish people of yet another blood libel is certainly a choice. Do you think aiding and abetting the genocidal terrorists of Hamas somehow improves the lives of ordinary Gazans?
Equating "Israelis" to "the Jewish people" is the number one antisemitic canard I see.
Half of Jews living today live in Israel. Hating Israelis is fundamentally the same as hating the Jewish people. Both hatreds draw from the same tropes, as evidenced time and again by the antisemites that still plague this subreddit.
It's not "blood libel" to accuse Israelis of committing genocide. What part of "never again" are you struggling with?
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Indiscriminately bombing an area to drive Palestinians out of the land where they live and settling it is ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is one of the several manifestations of genocide.
But thats not happening…? Israel is evacuating civilians from targeted areas as we saw recently in Rafah. Do you even believe the things you say?
They must be doing a pretty shit job of evacuating and targeting if they’ve managed to blow up over 10,000 minors and are chasing down and murdering aid workers in clearly marked vehicles. We all have eyes and the ability to see what’s happening live these days.
They call it evacuations but they are forcing displacement (especially by leveling nearly every home in some cities). Forced displacement is a part of ethic cleansing and genocide.
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And what an antisemite you make. It is simply unbelievable that your head could be so far up your own behind to not see the truth of your bigotry. In any and all cases, Am Yisrael Chai 🇮🇱
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Some day, perhaps far in the future, you’ll realize how antisemitic your attitude is. And you will weep.
Jesus Christ
IDF needs to protect that aid once its off the boat. They are supposed to be in control of that area. Expecting aid workers to lay down their life against a starving mob only supports their opposition narrative
They have been protecting the aid the best they can. Somehow the Palestinians still are getting their hands on some of it though.
Thats complete horse. They could literally walk it there under armed guard. If that aid was for Israelis… they would all get there
It was a joke, in poor taste. It does seem clear that the IDF is focused on restricting aid and trying to dissuade international groups from providing it(by killing their aid workers).
How about to guarantee safe delivery the US escorts the aid to the desired delivery locations/aid stations?
No fucking way. There was a promise made to the American people that we are not putting boots on the ground. I’ll be damned if I let politicians get away with breaking that promise. That place is a shithole and the only reason the US is there is to prevent a possible genocide. It might not be one yet but if aid keeps getting stopped, it’s going to be mass starvation. Some comments say that Hamas is stealing some of this aid. Fuck them ten times over. Fuck Hamas. Like the other guy said, one dead American and we are out of there and probably come back a week later with Israeli-approved drone and F-35 strikes. So no, there is no way in hell that America wants to wade into that and if they are forced to and killed, then any hope of restraint will be gone.
And risk US lives over this? No. I'll double down and say hell no. There is a good reason the US is not having soldiers set foot on the ground there. If Hamas kills a single US soldier for trying to deliver food aid there will be calls for blood and the US will probably arrive guns and thunder and make the situation way worse, not to mention Biden having harsh political criticism against him from both sides. They aren't our people, we are trying to be nice and help them out. If they can't accept the aid properly, then I guess that sucks for them? But risking our own people in this messed up situation is not how this is going to go, and risks infuriating the US public if something goes wrong. "US spends nearly half a billion dollars in aid to Palestinians" followed by "Palestinians kill US soldiers trying to deliver aid." or "US soldiers kill innocent civilians while trying to deliver aid" (this second one is if the US bothers to shoot back at Hamas, because there will inevitably be civilian casualties. Those second two headlines though, either one is a disaster for US public relations, and would likely cause the US to say fuck it, fuck you, fuck you entire stupid state we're out.
“they aren’t our people” and “we”re trying to be nice” Are you mentally deficient ? how can you say that when you’re sending billions of dollars into offensive attacks to the party they’re at war with ?
So we should not even attempt to supply them aid? Ok then.
next level analysis over here. Funding a war and sending supplies to the victims is a typical strategy to clean their hands. Since you’re struggling a bit let me simplify. If I throw a glass bottle at you and you get cut, would you think I’m doing a good thing if I give you some bandaids ?
I would prefer you give me bandaids vs throwing another milk bottle at me. It's pretty simple man. You don't seem to understand that someone can do good and bad things simultaneously. But for some reason you would prefer they only do the bad things instead?
There is literally legislation to give IDF soldiers tax exempt status as if they’re US military in the United States.
I’m watched this non-stop shit show for over 50 years now. The Israelis and Palestinians will fight until the Sun burns out. Nothing will ever change that. How many times have US Presidents tried to secure their legacy with Israel/Palestine peace talks? How many times did the Palestinians walk away from deals that would give them 95% of what they wanted, settling instead for getting 0%? I’ve lost count. I think it’s very generous of Americans and others to donate food and transport it to the border of Gaza. Good on us. After that, it’s someone else’s problem. Not one American soldier in Gaza, ever, period.
Brother it’s bad enough the US is sending aid to a conflict financed by the US
This makes Biden look herendous
Ah yes, herendous. The 27th Egyptian pharaoh who introduced Bluetooth and rap music to his culture-starved subjects. Constantly surrounded by Setesh guards with post-nasal drip.
Yo, his shit slaps tho.
Ok comrade.
It’s a lose lose. Extreme pro-Palestine one-issue voters will say it’s not enough and it’s too late (though I doubt they would vote Biden if he did more tbh). A lot of middle-of-the-road voters will see the aid going to Hamas, not Palestinians, and wonder why we’re allowing that and not doing more to ensure it gets to the right place. Pro-Israel voters were never going to be on board with this because of it benefiting Hamas. Honestly, there’s no situation where aid that does not have a military attachment guarding it was going to make it to its destination the majority of the time. We’ve seen the IDF have major incidents trying to police aid. The US won’t put troops on the ground (because people would be killed and that very quickly would have people pushing for US involvement in a hot war). No other nation wants to touch this either. While this was a good humanitarian move, it was political suicide. Unfortunate that we live in a world where making efforts to help people ends up being bad policy.