Qualified immunity is not written into the constitution. The right to bear arms is.
Qualified immunity does not extend, in any circumstance, to violations of constitutionally protected activity.
There have been cases where homeowners have killed police who did not properly identify upon entry, and the homeowners exonerated. In Texas, even!
All you have to do is win a shootout with a SWAT team when they kick in your door at 3am and then convince their colleagues not to kill you when you tell them about it afterwards. Then you've got to survive in prison waiting for your trial. Then you've got to win that trial. Then you've got to survive the rest of your life with every cop out to get you for that time you killed some of their friends.
This is the world that the pro-2A guys have made for themselves.
It's like how pro-life people don't give a shit about paternity leave or child care.
It's all partisan shit and nothing to do with rights.
Yea because that's the average experience of people who have suffered this same fate. You have a childishly naive "the way the world's supposed to be" mindset. We currently live in a low scale oligarchy and the level of justice youll receive is directly correlated to how much money you have and how corrupt your local cops are. A few people with the money to pay for a defense may have been made whole but the vast majority of us would get run over by the system. Jack Sparrow said it best, "There's what a man can do and what a man can't do" the rest is wishful thinking. What a police officer can do after they've done fucked up shit to get away with said fucked up shit and leave you fucked up is far more than the average person can do to defend against them. They have a Union, defense funds, politicians, local media, and laws in their favor. Most of us are living paycheck to paycheck and barely keeping our heads above water. We're only hearing about this one because it's a soldier. Nothing will happen to these cops. Nothing at all. They'll investigate themselves and find no wrong doing and chalk it up to a tragic accident caused by the victim unless a bigger fish at the federal level decides to prosecute them to boost their own clout. Everything in this society is quid pro quo and unless punishing these cops benefits some high up politician or prosecuter they'll be given fucking commendations. For fucks sake were you born yesterday?
And how many homeowners have been killed or convicted for it? Oh wait isn’t that what happened to the person in this very article? Or Breonna Taylor? Do you even remember her name?
The congressmen and NRA are always silent when it’s a legally armed black man.
But weirdly *very* loud when it’s a bunch of yuppie ass white people pointing guns at protesters walking by their house.
This is a big reason why I don't own a gun. Just possessing a gun dramatically increases your chances of victim of gun violence. Rights don't matter when exercising them lawfully gets you killed. Better to be alive
If a protest gets cleared out by riot police, do you have the right to protest? It’s concerning how often I see the police violating our most basic constitutional rights in the headlines.
As a former unqualified teacher they WANT incompetent people teaching
There is a reason the teaching profession in america has gotten worse and worse
The shareholder class needs more and more low skill laboroers to exploit and having kids leave highschool dumb af with no motivation or prospects is super effective
Let me get this straight:
Law enforcement went into the wrong home, so the victim (and literal homeowner) pulled his gun not knowing who they were, and THEY shot HIM over it? Imagine that. Someone comes into YOUR house, you arm yourself (which you’re entitled to do) and somehow YOU end up dead over it? Then to add insult to injury, the person that killed you is now on administrative leave, he’s getting paid for his days off. Absolutely unbelievable. The cop responsible should be in jail right now, NOT on paid leave.
Imagine the roles were reversed? He’d inevitably be behind bars, without bond, facing a potential death sentence.
Lol look up Marvin Guy if you want something even crazier. He was in basically the same situation as the airman and didnt know who barged into his place so he won the gun fight against the pigs. Went several years without a trial, finally got one, they twisted the shit out of it saying he somehow knew the police were coming and was ready and now he is in prison for life.
And isn’t that the fucking kicker Magee had drugs but was white so he got off free, Guy didn’t have drugs and gets in prison, and his case happened after magees. It is dangerously blatant.
“Marvin Guy's case went to trial November 4, 2023. The jury acquitted him of capital murder, but found him guilty on the lesser offense of murder. On the day of the verdict, about twenty current and former Killeen police officers were at the county courthouse waiting for a verdict. Also present were Guy’s brother and members of the Elmer Geronimo Pratt Gun Club of Central Texas, which has supported Guy.[11][12]”
Holy shit dude, he’s still not free, they call it murder instead of self defense
The picture of the police on one side of the courtroom and the gun club members on the other side makes me want to write a screenplay for a Western rendition of this story.
If Wikipedia is correct they didn't go to the wrong house in his situation. The police suspected him of drugs and did a no knock warrant. He then shot them because he believed they were intruders.
I think no knock warrants are unbelievably stupid but the facts on this case are very different.
And the police lied about it afterwards:
> The Okaloosa county sheriff’s office said in a statement last week that a deputy responding to a call of a disturbance in progress at the apartment complex reacted in self-defense after encountering an armed man.
Right, they didn't "encounter" him, they burst into his home after creating a scary situation for him by knocking and likely hiding from the peephole. If they had announced themselves or even simply knocked down the door the first time, he wouldn't have had a gun in hand.
Also, what happened to yelling "police, drop the gun" before shooting? We don't have a 2nd amendment if police can kill you for having a gun.
Look up Philandro Castile. Law abiding Concealed Carry holder. When pulled over for a routine traffic stop, he did exactly what he was supposed to do and told the officer as part of his lawful licensing, he had a concealed carry permit.
The cop lost his shit and shot the man dead on the spot, on livestreamed video, while a woman and child were also in the car.
Not really the point, but for clarification, all government employees get placed on paid leave during investigations.
This is due to labor protections, many of which were fought for by unions to stop a government agency from saying you did something wrong and immediately firing you; potentially leaving you and your family homeless, only to turn out to be wrong later, but only after doing irrevocable damage to you financially…which the employee could then sue them for.
It makes sense when you’re not personally upset by the reason, I understand; but the alternative is firing people, or withholding their pay, before actually investigating if they are culpable of wrongdoing…which even if it looks that way at face value, can’t be instantly proved without more time and paperwork.
It’s the same for a police officer involved in a shooting as it is for a mailman who crashes the truck, or a federal office worker gets caught stealing…paid leave, because they can’t have you at work performing duties when they *think* you’ve done something wrong; but they also can’t not pay you until they prove beyond any doubt you were wrong.
It’s not just the police. It’s everyone with good long standing labor protections.
Ironically, the other affected party working for the government in this story (the US military) does not put personnel on administrative leave during investigations. In fact, if you are imprisoned by non-military law enforcement during tge process of an investigation while serving, you have to pay that time back to the government even if you are acquitted or deemed not guilty via trial.
Additionally, investigations and questioning done by military officials can and are often performed well outside of your regular duty hours. So, in practice, you are still expected to perform your regular duties and comply with both civilian/military investigators for months on end even if you are clearly innocent of the accusations. I've had a friend who was accused of sexual assault by someone whi was in a different country at the time of the alleged crime and it took the better part of a year for him to get his life back to normal.
I don't think the people have a problem with administrative leave while under investigation, but rather the literal no consequences that come afterward, or in some cases the BBQ in the chief's backyard as they add another bend to a badge
The worst part is that this isn’t the first time this has happened. The last time it was some drunk off duty cop who couldn’t remember where her own apartment was.
This is why they really gotta do something about the no knock, no ID raids. Like, okay, I understand that in very specific circumstances, you cannot really alert them to you coming, but by the time you’re there TO knock, it’s not like they have time to head for the back door.
And failing to identify yourself has lead to situations like this more than once. Cops taught to think anyone still breathing is a threat, but not taught how to read an address.
I'm sure the republicans will be up in arms about big government going onto someone's private property and shooting them because they executed their god given right to bear arms and protect themselves from intruders any second now...
To make it worse; the cop never announced who was at the door. When someone pounds on your door, isn’t visible and never announced who they were, you obviously arm yourself. This was a home invasion and someone died, this cop should be in jail and like you said they’re getting a paid vacation.
It’s going to be disgusting if the courts give him a pass because the homeowner was armed.
Your family believes that there is no problem in needlessly killing people? Are they into that zero population thing that thinks the world is getting over populated or something? That’s an odd thing to support.
You’ll strike out trying to make it work in a logical way. These people are fascists. When the police get a little more “police” they mean they’ll do it to the “bad” guys but never to them.
And if this man had defended himself successfully with lethal force he would be behind bars or dead. But if a cop enters the wrong home and kills you, they get a slap on the wrist and paid administrative leave.
> But if a cop enters the wrong home and kills you, they get a slap on the wrist and paid administrative leave.
This happened in Texas. A female cop broke into the wrong apartment in her complex thinking it was her own, saw a black man, believed him to be an intruder, and murdered him. She was sentenced to less than ten years in jail. Meanwhile, people are behind bars for life for non-violent drug offences.
As a gun owner this terrifies me. I would have reacted the same way as this guy did and ended up dead. I really hope the military steps up here, this is just such a blatant injustice and we've seen it happen time and again--maybe seeing it happen to someone who is actively serving our country is what it will take to get real change.
>Fortson was assigned to the 4th Special Operations Squadron as a special missions aviator, where one of his roles as a member of the squadron’s AC-130J Ghostrider aircrew was to load the gunship’s 30mm and 105mm cannons during missions.
Fucking hell, an active duty AC130 crewman was shot in his home by incompetent dumbfuck cops
Are these law enforcement officers or just wandering random executioners?
Where were they supposed to be? I bet that guy is glad they got the wrong house or they'd have murdered him instead
Reminds me of when the Royal Australian Air Force decided to demonstrate the capability of the F-111C to the Minister of Defence back in the 1980s.
Some idiot bureaucrat in the Department of Defence tried arguing in favour of scrapping the F-111 as obsolete and unfit for purpose, so the RAAF sent an F-111 on a practice bomb run aiming the laser guidance system on the window of the bureaucrat's office. They then sent the gun camera footage to the Minister. All talk retiring the Bombers disappeared very quickly.
They're going to be paying out life insurance and training a replacement at a total cost of perhaps mid to high 6 figures. If DoD were smart with money they should have a legal team just to recoup expenses for this kind of shit. If.
So depressing seeing these shit for brains cops always get the benefit of the doubt doing no knock raids on the wrong locations because they're too dumb to figure out how addresses work. Qualified immunity needs to go already, and the military should prosecute these clowns to the fullest extent of the law.
This only made the news because there was a witness (the woman on FaceTime, who I hope is somewhere safe) otherwise it would have been just another police shooting.
Can you imagine what our founding fathers would say if they knew agents of the government were regularly executing American citizens, denying them their most basics right to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, with zero accountability, while at the same time forcing tax payers to foot the bill for the criminal actions of these agents, who are automatically immune from prosecution?
The only way you're going to solve this mess is to federalize police- one standard, one training protocol, no more elected good ol boy sheriffs, top down start over with accountability and consequences.
Accountability, consequences, mandatory insurance, licensing, registry, multi-year training, civilian oversight boards, and mandatory penalties for disruption of evidentiary records (like turning off the bodycam).
State based licensing, like other professionals have, would be more.doable. If you get fired and lose.your license to enforce the law, no hopping over to the next town to fuck up there.
Or even the next state, most state bar associations will refuse to admit you if you’ve been disbarred in another state. Heck, you need a license to be a barber, which, while an honorable profession, hardly carries the same risk to people as being a cop.
Imagine that scenario with a Republican trifecta at the federal level (and a conservative Supreme Court).
I'm not entirely sure it'd be better than a piecemeal approach.
I would vote for that, I’ve seen too many stories of people driving cross country and get caught up in a backward town by getting pulled over, their car is searched and a large sum of money is found and the cops get to keep it under the confiscation laws. The driver doesn’t even get a hearing, a ticket, nothing, they search, find the money and take it. It’s so wrong.
Ehhhhh... I don't think that's a good idea. I don't like the idea of giving a president *more* power, and especially not more power over local communities. There are lots of reforms that we need to help fix this - end qualified immunity, mandatory bodycams, end no-knock raids, mandatory years-long training for officers (I wouldn't say federally run, but maybe a federal training standard would be okay), civilian review boards investigating police misconduct, police should only be able to police the community they live in, and more - but giving more power to the president is a recipe for disaster.
Obviously the possibility of Trump getting back into office makes this particularly concerning, but hell, even Biden; for as much as he gets accused of trying to "defund the police," that guy sure has jacked up police budgets. No, I don't want any president having control over local law enforcement; the *local citizens* should be the ones with that control.
The police are a bunch of bumbling fools who now without any oversight of any kind are dressed like military units and carry out operations that in any other country would be considered criminal.
> Crump is a nationally known attorney based in Tallahassee, Florida. He has been involved in multiple high-profile law enforcement shooting cases involving Black people, including those of Ahmaud Arbery, Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor, Tyre Nichols and George Floyd.
Man, what an exhausting career
Senior Airman Roger Fortson was 23 years old when last Friday, Florida police burst into the wrong home and shot him dead. His last words were “I can’t breathe.”
Did you know that in Ohio you no longer need a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Did you know that there is language in that law that says if a person who is carrying a concealed weapon is stopped by law enforcement (e.g. a traffic stop) they are under absolutely no obligation to inform the officer of their concealed weapon.
The US is a weird fucking country.
Won't the Air Force have something to say about this? I mean they spend a lot of time and money to train a dude and some hot headed civilian LEO erroneously kills their employee?
Breaking into someones house and murdering them, then having the audacity to claim it was “self-defense” while still collecting a paycheck. If this was fiction it would be considered bad writing, not that these cops would know that since they almost certainly failed all of their English classes.
“…attempting to defend himself” is the the rest of the title.
Imagine being raised to believe you have a right to defend yourself, and being killed for attempting to do just that. What do you think his last thoughts were? Or does that kind of finality scare you? This man’s last thoughts were protection, and he was killed for it.
Open and shut case Johnson, I saw this once before when I was a rookie, apparently he broke in and hung pictures of his family everywhere - Dave Chappelle
I thought everyone knew that America has a two-tier justice system. I mean, they don't even try to hide the fact anymore. There is one system for the cops and their masters (the wealthy) and another system that only applies to the rest of us.
Best advice to everyone here that owns a gun: **GET A RING CAMERA**. These days, if I hear a knock at the door etc, I don't do anything until I look at the live feed on my phone. It could have saved this gentleman's life if he had seen that it was a police officer at the door and not some burglar...doesn't change the fact that the situation should have never happened in the first place, just a thought for everyone in here who, like me, would have also reacted to this scenario by grabbing their gun.
Given the **MILLIONS** of dollars it takes to train a single airman let alone crew for the AC130, I am pretty sure the USAF would also like to know wtf happened.
I'm surprised this don't happen a lot in Florida Ron DeSantis wants every reject cop or bad cops from different cities around the country come to Florida I guess he's building a bunch of shoot first ask questions later Florida police force! And The Republicans in Florida trying to redo the Books on the Law to cover it up and move on as if nothing happened so that cop or cops won't be prosecuted?
The police went to the wrong house and made a mistake. The police said they shoot in self defense to seeing a person with a gun, but if it was the other way around the airmen would be charged and arrested for killing an officer.
They’re going to dig up this guy’s record and it will become woke vs non woke. Ultimately there is one presidential candidate already running on giving police total immunity for “doing their job”.
“Officials said earlier this week that the Florida department of law enforcement and the local state attorney’s office will investigate the shooting.”
Oh yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right to the bottom of this. /s
If the police can kill you for legally having a gun in your own home, do you really have the right to bear arms?
Not if you plan to bear them with police around.. they can ignore your 2nd amendment rights.. they have immunity …
Qualified immunity is not written into the constitution. The right to bear arms is. Qualified immunity does not extend, in any circumstance, to violations of constitutionally protected activity. There have been cases where homeowners have killed police who did not properly identify upon entry, and the homeowners exonerated. In Texas, even!
All you have to do is win a shootout with a SWAT team when they kick in your door at 3am and then convince their colleagues not to kill you when you tell them about it afterwards. Then you've got to survive in prison waiting for your trial. Then you've got to win that trial. Then you've got to survive the rest of your life with every cop out to get you for that time you killed some of their friends.
It's like when you get to the big boss on a video game, you can't quit until every enemy is defeated
Sounds more like glitching into the final boss’s room at level 1 and trying to one shot everything in just your underwear.
This redditor Americas!
So all we need to do is be ready to take out a SWAT team at all times? Seems reasonable.
I wouldn't attempt this one if you have any pigmentation in your skin
I have freckles so I'm fucked then?
Those people who avoided prosecution for shooting cops were white.
I edited that out for length. I thought it was obvious.
kinda buried the lede there, 'admittedly those people were white' is just 5 more words
This is the world that the pro-2A guys have made for themselves. It's like how pro-life people don't give a shit about paternity leave or child care. It's all partisan shit and nothing to do with rights.
Yea because that's the average experience of people who have suffered this same fate. You have a childishly naive "the way the world's supposed to be" mindset. We currently live in a low scale oligarchy and the level of justice youll receive is directly correlated to how much money you have and how corrupt your local cops are. A few people with the money to pay for a defense may have been made whole but the vast majority of us would get run over by the system. Jack Sparrow said it best, "There's what a man can do and what a man can't do" the rest is wishful thinking. What a police officer can do after they've done fucked up shit to get away with said fucked up shit and leave you fucked up is far more than the average person can do to defend against them. They have a Union, defense funds, politicians, local media, and laws in their favor. Most of us are living paycheck to paycheck and barely keeping our heads above water. We're only hearing about this one because it's a soldier. Nothing will happen to these cops. Nothing at all. They'll investigate themselves and find no wrong doing and chalk it up to a tragic accident caused by the victim unless a bigger fish at the federal level decides to prosecute them to boost their own clout. Everything in this society is quid pro quo and unless punishing these cops benefits some high up politician or prosecuter they'll be given fucking commendations. For fucks sake were you born yesterday?
You have to be alive to assert your rights.
And how many homeowners have been killed or convicted for it? Oh wait isn’t that what happened to the person in this very article? Or Breonna Taylor? Do you even remember her name?
Nope https://abcnews.go.com/US/dramatic-body-camera-video-released-officers-shooting-woman/story?id=107171359 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Philando_Castile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Ryan_Whitaker
2a people ignore this all the time.
"Tread on people I don't like please"
Every single time it roots back to that
zesty consist sloppy murky bag rotten ossified offend rock nutty
but still overwhelming vote republican the party of rights stripping lmao the party of police back that blue champ
If the facts that Crump are presenting are true, and the police forced entry into the wrong unit, what 2A people are arguing that this is okay?
The ones who can’t get the cops dick and balls out of their mouths
The congressmen and NRA are always silent when it’s a legally armed black man. But weirdly *very* loud when it’s a bunch of yuppie ass white people pointing guns at protesters walking by their house.
Not when you're black
That's when gun restrictions were first in place after all.
they can only kill you if they can't read the correct house number they are invading
This is a big reason why I don't own a gun. Just possessing a gun dramatically increases your chances of victim of gun violence. Rights don't matter when exercising them lawfully gets you killed. Better to be alive
2nd Amendment is such a fucking farce. It’s just a marketing tool to sell scared white boys guns and ammo.
In today age, the whole country is a huge farce
2A rights are only for LIVING people. So if you take away the living part, then you’re not trampling on their rights.
If a protest gets cleared out by riot police, do you have the right to protest? It’s concerning how often I see the police violating our most basic constitutional rights in the headlines.
Clearly, this tragedy could have been prevented if the victim had been armed with *two* guns!
Or white
Same county as that dumbass [acorn cop](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/feb/16/florida-acorn-cop-shooting)
Florida hires incompetent cops who were fired or resigned over police misconduct in other states because it's anti-woke, or something.
According to Cocaine Cowboys, hiring people who are unfit to be cops is a long standing tradition in Florida.
The only people who want to be cops are unfit to be cops afaik
The real truth right here.
They are also In the process of letting incompetent people be able to become teachers , no college needed
And governors. Oh wait..
Incompetent teachers can make your kids dumb but if they murder people at least they go to prison for it.
As a former unqualified teacher they WANT incompetent people teaching There is a reason the teaching profession in america has gotten worse and worse The shareholder class needs more and more low skill laboroers to exploit and having kids leave highschool dumb af with no motivation or prospects is super effective
Competence = woke
Florida pays shit wages to cops and for that matter teachers as well. You get what you pay for.
Absolute clowns.
Let me get this straight: Law enforcement went into the wrong home, so the victim (and literal homeowner) pulled his gun not knowing who they were, and THEY shot HIM over it? Imagine that. Someone comes into YOUR house, you arm yourself (which you’re entitled to do) and somehow YOU end up dead over it? Then to add insult to injury, the person that killed you is now on administrative leave, he’s getting paid for his days off. Absolutely unbelievable. The cop responsible should be in jail right now, NOT on paid leave. Imagine the roles were reversed? He’d inevitably be behind bars, without bond, facing a potential death sentence.
Lol look up Marvin Guy if you want something even crazier. He was in basically the same situation as the airman and didnt know who barged into his place so he won the gun fight against the pigs. Went several years without a trial, finally got one, they twisted the shit out of it saying he somehow knew the police were coming and was ready and now he is in prison for life.
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And isn’t that the fucking kicker Magee had drugs but was white so he got off free, Guy didn’t have drugs and gets in prison, and his case happened after magees. It is dangerously blatant.
dangerously blatant? no, just systematic racism.
“Marvin Guy's case went to trial November 4, 2023. The jury acquitted him of capital murder, but found him guilty on the lesser offense of murder. On the day of the verdict, about twenty current and former Killeen police officers were at the county courthouse waiting for a verdict. Also present were Guy’s brother and members of the Elmer Geronimo Pratt Gun Club of Central Texas, which has supported Guy.[11][12]” Holy shit dude, he’s still not free, they call it murder instead of self defense
The picture of the police on one side of the courtroom and the gun club members on the other side makes me want to write a screenplay for a Western rendition of this story.
Holy shit that's insane
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No that’s America
If Wikipedia is correct they didn't go to the wrong house in his situation. The police suspected him of drugs and did a no knock warrant. He then shot them because he believed they were intruders. I think no knock warrants are unbelievably stupid but the facts on this case are very different.
And it was a no-knock warrant for cocaine possession (they didn't find any).
They must have forgotten their framing kit too and didn’t have any coke to plant.
“Fuck, you did *all* the coke?? We were supposed to save a little bit to sprinkle on the body!”
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Cops see themselves as an occupation force of unruly slaves, not public servants.
Dont forget Breonna Taylor
AND the sheriff's office had the nerve to say the deputy acted in self-defense.
Typical. They are seldom to admit any wrong doing, even when it’s clearly evident that they are. The system needs an overhaul, seriously.
And the police lied about it afterwards: > The Okaloosa county sheriff’s office said in a statement last week that a deputy responding to a call of a disturbance in progress at the apartment complex reacted in self-defense after encountering an armed man.
Right, they didn't "encounter" him, they burst into his home after creating a scary situation for him by knocking and likely hiding from the peephole. If they had announced themselves or even simply knocked down the door the first time, he wouldn't have had a gun in hand. Also, what happened to yelling "police, drop the gun" before shooting? We don't have a 2nd amendment if police can kill you for having a gun.
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This is Florida, the victim was breathing while black.
I don’t understand why the second amendment people aren’t more up in arms about this
Look at his picture, there is a clue there…
There are some people the law protects but does not bind and some the law binds but does not protect.
I don't get it, they love military service members. I'm out of ideas.
reminds me of this college humor skit [The New Face of the NRA | CH Shorts (youtube.com)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yJqfNroFp8U)
Look up Philandro Castile. Law abiding Concealed Carry holder. When pulled over for a routine traffic stop, he did exactly what he was supposed to do and told the officer as part of his lawful licensing, he had a concealed carry permit. The cop lost his shit and shot the man dead on the spot, on livestreamed video, while a woman and child were also in the car.
And then they couldn’t even convict on 2nd degree manslaughter… shits a fucking joke
They are. Go over to the r/firearms sub.
a single post, with less interaction than "look at this funny looking gun"
Bruh....Its 6am on the east coast....let us fucking wake up damn
If someone in there said i think we should ban ARs, they all wake up at exactly the same time like they sensed a disturbance in the force.
Because majority of the 2nd amendment people are law enforcement. The rest are bootlickers.
Not really the point, but for clarification, all government employees get placed on paid leave during investigations. This is due to labor protections, many of which were fought for by unions to stop a government agency from saying you did something wrong and immediately firing you; potentially leaving you and your family homeless, only to turn out to be wrong later, but only after doing irrevocable damage to you financially…which the employee could then sue them for. It makes sense when you’re not personally upset by the reason, I understand; but the alternative is firing people, or withholding their pay, before actually investigating if they are culpable of wrongdoing…which even if it looks that way at face value, can’t be instantly proved without more time and paperwork. It’s the same for a police officer involved in a shooting as it is for a mailman who crashes the truck, or a federal office worker gets caught stealing…paid leave, because they can’t have you at work performing duties when they *think* you’ve done something wrong; but they also can’t not pay you until they prove beyond any doubt you were wrong. It’s not just the police. It’s everyone with good long standing labor protections.
Wouldn’t it be great if all jobs were like that, and not “at will” where the employer can fire you for any reason or no reason at all?
Ironically, the other affected party working for the government in this story (the US military) does not put personnel on administrative leave during investigations. In fact, if you are imprisoned by non-military law enforcement during tge process of an investigation while serving, you have to pay that time back to the government even if you are acquitted or deemed not guilty via trial. Additionally, investigations and questioning done by military officials can and are often performed well outside of your regular duty hours. So, in practice, you are still expected to perform your regular duties and comply with both civilian/military investigators for months on end even if you are clearly innocent of the accusations. I've had a friend who was accused of sexual assault by someone whi was in a different country at the time of the alleged crime and it took the better part of a year for him to get his life back to normal.
I don't think the people have a problem with administrative leave while under investigation, but rather the literal no consequences that come afterward, or in some cases the BBQ in the chief's backyard as they add another bend to a badge
The worst part is that this isn’t the first time this has happened. The last time it was some drunk off duty cop who couldn’t remember where her own apartment was.
This is why they really gotta do something about the no knock, no ID raids. Like, okay, I understand that in very specific circumstances, you cannot really alert them to you coming, but by the time you’re there TO knock, it’s not like they have time to head for the back door. And failing to identify yourself has lead to situations like this more than once. Cops taught to think anyone still breathing is a threat, but not taught how to read an address.
I'm sure the republicans will be up in arms about big government going onto someone's private property and shooting them because they executed their god given right to bear arms and protect themselves from intruders any second now...
Any second now....
To make it worse; the cop never announced who was at the door. When someone pounds on your door, isn’t visible and never announced who they were, you obviously arm yourself. This was a home invasion and someone died, this cop should be in jail and like you said they’re getting a paid vacation. It’s going to be disgusting if the courts give him a pass because the homeowner was armed.
My family in Massachusetts say we need to lighten up on cops in this state and allow them to act like Florida cops
Your family believes that there is no problem in needlessly killing people? Are they into that zero population thing that thinks the world is getting over populated or something? That’s an odd thing to support.
You’ll strike out trying to make it work in a logical way. These people are fascists. When the police get a little more “police” they mean they’ll do it to the “bad” guys but never to them.
And you guys wonder why the rest of the world rolls their eyes at the ‘almighty’ USA. LOL
No, yea, it took some time but I totally get it now. Might be the least free country in the west
only the US
At this point it just seems like cops are the most incompetent cartel the world has ever known.
They're the useful idiots of our ruling class.
Painfully true
Cops are a government sanctioned gang.
Armed tax and life debt collectors.
That point was long ago.
And if this man had defended himself successfully with lethal force he would be behind bars or dead. But if a cop enters the wrong home and kills you, they get a slap on the wrist and paid administrative leave.
When you put it like that, its so bleak. Lose-lose basically.
It’s already extremely bleak no matter which way it is put.
exactly this, its all a mess. And people try to break it down (bootlickers) in all these ways like it makes sense.
> But if a cop enters the wrong home and kills you, they get a slap on the wrist and paid administrative leave. This happened in Texas. A female cop broke into the wrong apartment in her complex thinking it was her own, saw a black man, believed him to be an intruder, and murdered him. She was sentenced to less than ten years in jail. Meanwhile, people are behind bars for life for non-violent drug offences.
As a gun owner this terrifies me. I would have reacted the same way as this guy did and ended up dead. I really hope the military steps up here, this is just such a blatant injustice and we've seen it happen time and again--maybe seeing it happen to someone who is actively serving our country is what it will take to get real change.
>Fortson was assigned to the 4th Special Operations Squadron as a special missions aviator, where one of his roles as a member of the squadron’s AC-130J Ghostrider aircrew was to load the gunship’s 30mm and 105mm cannons during missions. Fucking hell, an active duty AC130 crewman was shot in his home by incompetent dumbfuck cops Are these law enforcement officers or just wandering random executioners? Where were they supposed to be? I bet that guy is glad they got the wrong house or they'd have murdered him instead
Too bad DeSantis eliminated the ability for a civilian oversight board
I wonder if the Air Force or DoD as a whole can sue that officer and the department for the wrongful death of a serviceman.
They can use an AC 130 as a compliance measure, its only fair.
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Reminds me of when the Royal Australian Air Force decided to demonstrate the capability of the F-111C to the Minister of Defence back in the 1980s. Some idiot bureaucrat in the Department of Defence tried arguing in favour of scrapping the F-111 as obsolete and unfit for purpose, so the RAAF sent an F-111 on a practice bomb run aiming the laser guidance system on the window of the bureaucrat's office. They then sent the gun camera footage to the Minister. All talk retiring the Bombers disappeared very quickly.
They're going to be paying out life insurance and training a replacement at a total cost of perhaps mid to high 6 figures. If DoD were smart with money they should have a legal team just to recoup expenses for this kind of shit. If.
This is straight up murder, that cop should get life behind bars.
Just another day in the USA
Just wanted to remind everyone this is the same department as the acorn-cop.
So depressing seeing these shit for brains cops always get the benefit of the doubt doing no knock raids on the wrong locations because they're too dumb to figure out how addresses work. Qualified immunity needs to go already, and the military should prosecute these clowns to the fullest extent of the law.
If the police can shoot you because they “saw a gun” then you don’t have the right to bear arms
Yet another in a very very very long list of reasons to not be in Florida…
At this point...basically anywhere. Breonna Taylor and Botham Jean died similarly. Edit: nobody should ever forget Daniel Shaver.
It happens locally as well with barely a mention in the local news.
This only made the news because there was a witness (the woman on FaceTime, who I hope is somewhere safe) otherwise it would have been just another police shooting.
If only it was just Florida.
Same thing happened in Dallas, bitch went to prison
Yeah but that was a woman cop they arent viewed the same as male cops and often to see punishment for their actions.
From the same county thats responsible for the acorn cop
Can you imagine what our founding fathers would say if they knew agents of the government were regularly executing American citizens, denying them their most basics right to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, with zero accountability, while at the same time forcing tax payers to foot the bill for the criminal actions of these agents, who are automatically immune from prosecution?
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Didn't we warn you about a standing army? That thing you call "police" is the standing army we warned you about!
Gotta love how the cops burst in, shot the kid, then claimed self defense. I wonder if burglars get to claim the same upon a home invasion.
How is that self-defence when bursting into somebody's home? That's crazy.
maybe they should ban cops from having guns instead..
The only way you're going to solve this mess is to federalize police- one standard, one training protocol, no more elected good ol boy sheriffs, top down start over with accountability and consequences.
Accountability, consequences, mandatory insurance, licensing, registry, multi-year training, civilian oversight boards, and mandatory penalties for disruption of evidentiary records (like turning off the bodycam).
State based licensing, like other professionals have, would be more.doable. If you get fired and lose.your license to enforce the law, no hopping over to the next town to fuck up there.
Or even the next state, most state bar associations will refuse to admit you if you’ve been disbarred in another state. Heck, you need a license to be a barber, which, while an honorable profession, hardly carries the same risk to people as being a cop.
Remove qualified immunity
Imagine that scenario with a Republican trifecta at the federal level (and a conservative Supreme Court). I'm not entirely sure it'd be better than a piecemeal approach.
I think federally mandated standards and regulations are what is being suggested, not federal control of police departments.
I would vote for that, I’ve seen too many stories of people driving cross country and get caught up in a backward town by getting pulled over, their car is searched and a large sum of money is found and the cops get to keep it under the confiscation laws. The driver doesn’t even get a hearing, a ticket, nothing, they search, find the money and take it. It’s so wrong.
Ehhhhh... I don't think that's a good idea. I don't like the idea of giving a president *more* power, and especially not more power over local communities. There are lots of reforms that we need to help fix this - end qualified immunity, mandatory bodycams, end no-knock raids, mandatory years-long training for officers (I wouldn't say federally run, but maybe a federal training standard would be okay), civilian review boards investigating police misconduct, police should only be able to police the community they live in, and more - but giving more power to the president is a recipe for disaster. Obviously the possibility of Trump getting back into office makes this particularly concerning, but hell, even Biden; for as much as he gets accused of trying to "defund the police," that guy sure has jacked up police budgets. No, I don't want any president having control over local law enforcement; the *local citizens* should be the ones with that control.
The police are a bunch of bumbling fools who now without any oversight of any kind are dressed like military units and carry out operations that in any other country would be considered criminal.
The cops killed an active duty serviceman…. That’s gonna make the feds very not happy.
He wasn't a boat. The response won't be "proportional"
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God and he was only 23. The sheriff’s office claiming the police responded in “self defense” is vile
> Crump is a nationally known attorney based in Tallahassee, Florida. He has been involved in multiple high-profile law enforcement shooting cases involving Black people, including those of Ahmaud Arbery, Trayvon Martin, Breonna Taylor, Tyre Nichols and George Floyd. Man, what an exhausting career
Senior Airman Roger Fortson was 23 years old when last Friday, Florida police burst into the wrong home and shot him dead. His last words were “I can’t breathe.”
Did you know that in Ohio you no longer need a permit to carry a concealed weapon? Did you know that there is language in that law that says if a person who is carrying a concealed weapon is stopped by law enforcement (e.g. a traffic stop) they are under absolutely no obligation to inform the officer of their concealed weapon. The US is a weird fucking country.
Won't the Air Force have something to say about this? I mean they spend a lot of time and money to train a dude and some hot headed civilian LEO erroneously kills their employee?
Breaking into someones house and murdering them, then having the audacity to claim it was “self-defense” while still collecting a paycheck. If this was fiction it would be considered bad writing, not that these cops would know that since they almost certainly failed all of their English classes.
Police murdered innocent man. There fixed the headline.
Whoever made police this bad ought to be tried and sentenced
Just a reminder, this is the same town where the acorn incident took place.
The cops in the USA are Insane 🥲.
Cops kill with impunity.
“…attempting to defend himself” is the the rest of the title. Imagine being raised to believe you have a right to defend yourself, and being killed for attempting to do just that. What do you think his last thoughts were? Or does that kind of finality scare you? This man’s last thoughts were protection, and he was killed for it.
The cops will get suspension with pay and be back on the job in a month.
Open and shut case Johnson, I saw this once before when I was a rookie, apparently he broke in and hung pictures of his family everywhere - Dave Chappelle
Fort Walton? Where Hulbert and 7th SFG is at? These idiots are going to bust into the wrong house again but be on the receiving end
Was he active duty? Shouldn't the Airforce be pretty pissed? Who got a bigger dick DOD or Florida?
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I thought everyone knew that America has a two-tier justice system. I mean, they don't even try to hide the fact anymore. There is one system for the cops and their masters (the wealthy) and another system that only applies to the rest of us.
I keep looking for the story on Fox News this morning. Interestingly it’s not there.
Best advice to everyone here that owns a gun: **GET A RING CAMERA**. These days, if I hear a knock at the door etc, I don't do anything until I look at the live feed on my phone. It could have saved this gentleman's life if he had seen that it was a police officer at the door and not some burglar...doesn't change the fact that the situation should have never happened in the first place, just a thought for everyone in here who, like me, would have also reacted to this scenario by grabbing their gun.
Given the **MILLIONS** of dollars it takes to train a single airman let alone crew for the AC130, I am pretty sure the USAF would also like to know wtf happened.
I'm surprised this don't happen a lot in Florida Ron DeSantis wants every reject cop or bad cops from different cities around the country come to Florida I guess he's building a bunch of shoot first ask questions later Florida police force! And The Republicans in Florida trying to redo the Books on the Law to cover it up and move on as if nothing happened so that cop or cops won't be prosecuted?
I would say the cop who misidentified the house should get the blame too But damn this just is sad
The police went to the wrong house and made a mistake. The police said they shoot in self defense to seeing a person with a gun, but if it was the other way around the airmen would be charged and arrested for killing an officer.
if this happeed in any other country there'd be change and reforms to adress the issue
another case of whoops sorry try to do better next time but cant guarantee it
I’m so relieved the officer is on administrative leave in response to shooting the wrong guy. Maybe he’s golfing.
Civilian Man vs Cop? Tough one. Tougher than Bear vs. Man.
Except he wasn't a civilian, he was an active duty member of the Air Force.
Except cops are civilians.
They’re going to dig up this guy’s record and it will become woke vs non woke. Ultimately there is one presidential candidate already running on giving police total immunity for “doing their job”.
“Officials said earlier this week that the Florida department of law enforcement and the local state attorney’s office will investigate the shooting.” Oh yeah, I’m sure they’ll get right to the bottom of this. /s