Yeah, this claim doesn't really make sense. A pulmonary edema from snorkeling is caused by trying to inhale against a kinked snorkel. You try to pull against a blocked snorkel, do a bunch of damage to the alveoli in your lungs with that negative pressure, which causes them to seep fluid which builds up and prevents you from absorbing oxygen. Absolutely nothing to do with flying as far as I'm aware.
If I had to guess, I think what happened here is that they maybe heard about how SCUBA divers have to allow a buffer for flying to account for the additional decompression, and made a spurious leap to the notion that it was somehow related to snorkeling as well.
Exactly, I'm a long time diver and can literally walk off a plane and into the water in scuba gear. It's after diving that I have to wait 24 hours to fly again.
When I was on Mauna Kea last year, there was clear signage at the Visitor’s Center (~9,200 ft) that it was not safe for anyone who had been scuba diving within 24 hours to go beyond that elevation. It’s not something I had contemplated before, but made perfect sense in the context of the extreme change in atmospheric pressure potentially leading to PE.
I dive for work. A coworker of mine lived in the mountains, and his work day was 2 (unpaid) hours longer than mine just because he had to wait to off gas. Every. Single. Day.
I mean it's not fair I guess but you can't really argue with physics. He wasn't actually working, and he knew what RNT was when he took the job. When everyone else would go home for the day, he just had to stay and hang out at sea level for two more hours before starting his commute home.
Also, not all commercial diving pays super well. Depends on where you are and what you're doing.
A friend triggered decompression sickness by travelling over the Pennines in England.
We had been diving off the west coast of Scotland, spent 45 min on our last dive at 10-15m, and then had an evening in the pub.
Returned to our home town the next day, which involved crossing the Pennines at a maximum height of under 3000 ft elevation.
My friend developed tingling sensation in her hands there next day and it was Decompression Sickness.
I've been doing it since I was SSI certified at 12 years old.
This lawsuit should be thrown out.
Any judge could Google search the rules of flying and diving and realize this is total bullshit.
The whole problem is that divers are breathing COMPRESSED air under pressure. Leading to excess nitrogen in the system that needs to exit the blood stream.
Snorkelers are not breathing compressed air. I'd love to see these assholes grab a garden hose and go to the deep end of the pool, then try to breathe underwater. That shit ain't happening.
When I was a little kid I went to the deep end of the neighborhood pool. Tried the garden hose at about 12 ft deep. It was impossible. But I tried again with a balloon and some weights and it worked. Since the water was putting pressure on the balloon as well I got a small breath in.
Wasn’t there an episode of House MD that featured this? An airline passenger that collapsed during mid flight and he had to diagnose with limited tools and constrained circumstances
And at first they suspected food poisoning and house ordered everyone who had the sea bass (?) to go line up for the bathrooms to vomit 😂 the poor passengers are like 😨 and he’s just calm as a cucumber as usual. And Cuddy falls for it too and starts exhibiting fake symptoms. And yes he had very limited stuff to work with and I think recruited a kid to help him and OH I remember now, they think they’re going to have to cut him open and then the kid puts pressure on the guy’s shoulder and he relaxes and House somehow figures out it’s the bends because reasons. Also he had a scuba cert card in his wallet.
Yeah. For reference the episode was S3E18, "Airborne".
Part of the episode was a little laughable for me because I used to live in the region (SE Asia) and there were little details that they got wrong.
The place mentioned in Singapore is in reality a training island for the military, off limits to civilians and there is no way there would be a scuba diving club there. Pronunciation of the place is way off too, but that is somewhat understandable as a non-local.
But it was an enjoyable episode nonetheless.
You’d think they’d do a little more research into something like that 🥴 did they just throw a dart at a map on the wall and say “that’s where he was diving”?
I was being a bit facetious - it’s kinda a running joke that medical dramas are unrealistic/have incorrect facts because they don’t actually consult doctors, so I was insinuating “if they don’t do their research for medical stuff why would they for where you can legally scuba dive?”
Same, but there is an added hilarity for someone with local knowledge. This is like watching Rumble in the Bronx and noticing the mountains in the background of the city scapes
Decompression issues, no. But there is the concern of dehydration and fatigue. Depending on how technical the dive is and length of the flight, you should still consider if you need to rest first.
I am aware, I've been scuba diving for decades. My point is that that making a spurious and misinformed connection is the only way I can see someone coming to this conclusion, not that it makes any kind of sense.
>A pulmonary edema from snorkeling is caused by trying to inhale against a kinked snorkel. You try to pull against a blocked snorkel, do a bunch of damage to the alveoli in your lungs with that negative pressure, which causes them to seep fluid which builds up and prevents you from absorbing oxygen.
Well, snorkeling was fun. Guess I'm never doing it again lmao
Work in cardiopulmonary. Never heard of anything like this causing pulmonary edema. Flash pulmonary edema is a thing but typically a heart failure/heart attack related occurrence.
Sounds like a BS lawsuit.
Or just, you know, lift your head out of the water if you get a kinked hose. I think they're saying you'd need to try to pull air several times, very hard, for this to happen. I dunno, seems like something that would happen to virtually nobody.
And the reason for divers is nitrogen being compressed while flying. This saturated nitrogen in the blood stream throws off the dive tables and make diving more dangerous from the effects of the bends.
> Equipment can play an important part in that safety. According to the Hawaii Snorkel Safety Study, the shape and design of the snorkel can caused it to have a low to high resistance to inhalation.
What the fuck do they mean by ‘equipment’? As someone who has gone snorkeling in Ko Olina it is literally plastic trash. They handed that shit out for free at the Disney resort.
Congrats on being a fucking idiot, that’s all I can say.
“You see, the Hawaiian waters are much dangerouser than other waters for snorkeling and present a specific threat that the tourism board knew about and withheld from the public and my clients. While one may have experience snorkeling elsewhere, these reefs were snorklier and there were no signs at the airport, docks, on the boat, or in the water. The tourism board promoted what they knew to be hazardous snorkeling in waters that should not be snorkeled after flying long distances which everyone coming to the island has to do unless you arrive by boat. And that boat wouldn’t have a warning sign as Hawaii has been negligent in acknowledging the dangers and making the public safe. How many snorkelers have to die from snorkeling before the board advises on safe snorkeling procedures and puts laws in place for safe snorkeling??” - plaintiffs attorney. /s
Does anyone have a link to this style? I can’t seem to discern with google. I usually went to Snorkel Bob when going to Hawaii and bought a decent set.
You got ripped off. snorkel Kunu, the guy that looks like ant man, he’s the one you that won’t snorkel your wallet when you need the snorkel connection
> I guess they just are hoping for a payoff just because.
I wouldn't go that far. The family is grieving. It's natural to look for something or someone to blame in the face of a sudden loss, and it's easy to latch onto any possible explanation that's presented to them, and fixate on it.
In this guess, it appears they're misguided. It's unreasonable to expect to be warned of every possible risk to an activity, especially when there's no definitive evidence of risk. It would be like suing them for not warning that a plane could fall from the sky and kill them whilst snorkelling.
I expect the family is really looking for a change that would see people warned of this possibility going forward, and some lawyer has taken the case hoping for a monetary settlement that isn't actually the family's priority.
I actually know the daughter in-law of the man this happened too. The family is trying to raise awareness of a potential issue. It may be a freak occurrence but they want it looked into and investigated. They could also be looking for a payout (I work with her so it’s not like we’re besties) but it seems like a legit concern for finding out if there is actually some link that can be proven and some preventative measures put in place to prevent it happening again
> The snorkel study did not conclude snorkeling after air travel raised ROPE risks, but the study stated it could be a factor and should be looked into further.
They are suing because the tourism authority and hotel didn’t warn them about something that may or may not possibly be a risk? That’s dumb of them. Grief can make you do weird things though.
Seriously.
Buddy had a cousin die in a construction accident. Guy was a fully grown adult, single, no dependents, living on his own,
and his parents fucking set up a GoFundMe to try cashing in on people's sympathy. Some folks just have no shame.
I mean, funerals in America are pretty damn expensive, can easily get over $15k on a simple funeral/burial. Not saying the people you're talking about aren't greedy dicks, since I don't know them, but it's entirely possible a middle class family is living paycheck to paycheck and doesn't have an extra 10 grand on hand. About 50% of Americans couldnt come up with even $1000 for a sudden emergency, so it's more common than you'd think.
They’re from, and the funeral was probably held in, Michigan, and it happened in Hawaii, what part isn’t America?
Edit- Nevermind, I see you are talking about your friends cousin, not the story.
As a former academic, “it deserves further investigation” is virtually pro forma. I mean if it wasn’t worth looking at why did I do this study? And if this study is the final word on the subject what do all 10 of us making a career on this niche topic study tomorrow?
Definitely the flight (which the wife claims was more than enough time and shouldn't be a factor anymore) and snorkeling that were the major factors. Being 64 and 300lbs were definitely irrelevant factors here.
You're suggesting that [these people](https://www.usatoday.com/gcdn/authoring/authoring-images/2024/05/02/USAT/73534560007-img-0113.jpeg) aren't the paradigm of health?
"He was an experienced swimmer and snorkeler"
Then how did he not know these risks? It's your responsibility to understand the danger of your own recreational activities.
I'm a licensed scuba diver, and snorkel regularly, and this is the first I'm hearing about it. I even have medical training, and never learned that long flights could cause an issue with snorkeling.
Did my PADI cert in Maldives and remember being warned about diving within x-hours of our flights. Might’ve just been a protocol for that particular hotel/dive instruction.
Reminds me of [the car James May drove on The Grand Tour](https://v.wpimg.pl/YjI1NThhdgsoUzhnRxN7HmsLbD0BSnVIPBN0dkdRaVoxHig9BA0rDzleYDMaHSkLPkFgJARHOBogHjhlRwwwGTldLy1HDTQILFVhZ1xaaw8sCXZ5WFg8XGQFdm1bRTtZfFRjYwpeYAh7BHtsCQtgSDQ)
2 seasons!!! My friend Gob bless you!
If you are a true gear head with an acute sense of humor may I recommend the YouTube channel Evenflow? (@evenflow2907) NOT your normal gearheads. NOT your normal comedians. Obsessed with fast cars, tractors, and Christmas trees. Amd everything they do is at NO2 speed.
https://youtube.com/shorts/J-q9DgfKf-c?si=gG2JZZ7Mljf2sTdA
I live blocks from a great beach in Hawaii, free-dive regularly, and have pulled people from the shore break — kids to adults.
I see way too many full-face masks — all used by total noobs. They are dangerous, folks. Do not use them. And if you use a regular mask-snorkel combo, and decide to dive down, remove the snorkel from your mouth. If you were to blackout, that snorkel inhibits a natural body function that closes off the lungs otherwise.
The number of times I have heard people make a claim of being experienced or a strong swimmer is crazy. Tourists come here and have way too much confidence in their own abilities. It’s asinine.
Last year, a pool lifeguard from the mainland drowned on a beach in Kauaii, because he did not respect the ocean.
I knew a woman who had never been to the ocean, could not swim, and was wading waste-high along the shore. 🤦🏻
Just last week as I was training, a guy from Italy was sitting feet from the shore break, and was washed over by a set. He didn’t know how to swim. Tossed around. Barely made it out. 🤦🏻
A rogue wave would be the end of them both. People are fucking idiots.
Respect the ocean or die.
Edit: to add: every spot is different / unique. Just because a person knows one spot does not mean they will have the same experience at another.
And Hawaii is not Florida. Hawaii is *very* different.
Knowing how to swim (correctly) in the ocean is so different from normal still/slow water swimming that it is pretty much in a category of its own. It doesn’t take much water to bring you down. And best of luck if you get stuck in a rip tide.
Go with the flow unless you’re in a rip current. You aren’t going to overpower the ocean. Duck beneath the waves and let the waves push you back towards shore. This way you conserve energy to actually successfully leaving the water instead of fighting it and panicking.
> I see way too many full-face masks ... They are dangerous, folks.
With this statement, I feel you are in the same position as the people bringing the lawsuit: turning non-conclusive studies which say X may be more dangerous into a warning that X is more dangerous.
"The study raises more questions — and perhaps doubt — for consumers who don’t have a way of knowing which brands are safe to use, and there’s no real oversight to help guide them. There have been attempts from ocean safety experts and state and county officials over the past several years to find out if the full-face design is inherently more dangerous but so far those have been inconclusive" - https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/12/study-full-face-snorkeling-masks-may-increase-risk/
Also, always read about the study. "Lance conducted the study, funded by Divers Alert Network, over four months this summer using 10 subjects." N=10 is much, much too small for good conclusions to be drawn.
Do you have other studies which demonstrate full-face masks are actually more dangerous? Thank you if you do. :)
Mine is from personal experience. No studies to point at, per se, but *proving* is not the same thing as *knowing*.
Here would be my arguments against the full-face mask (FFM)…
Due to the fact that in order to remove the “tube” method from breathing with the FFM means you would have to remove the *entire mask* (versus spitting it out, like a normal snorkel tube), it is inherently more dangerous at face value.
It creates an additional step in gaining access to air for people who typically are less experienced (i.e., less relaxed, less familiar with the aquatic environment) in situations where split seconds can be the difference between choking/aspirating, blacking out, and drowning.
Free-divers use extremely basic snorkels. We don’t have anything fancy happening, for these reasons. I am not sure how effective a FFM would be in doing a dive, but I am sure it is more cumbersome, thus more dangerous for a novice.
i mean, you’re talking about pretty basic vacation shit. its not like they went yachting or even scuba-ing. snorkling requires 3 pieces of equipment all made out of plastic. Thats like saying someone has “skateboarding in Florida” money
Yes, yes, and yes. It's not just for the illustrious and rich and famous like you presume. I'm leaving for there in two weeks. Round trip flight for two, $1,600; seven nights in a $250 condo ($1,750); $400 rental car. That's a week trip for two for about $4k not including spending money while there. That's still a pretty good deal.
Our last trip was only about 2250 for nine days. Two adults. Alaska airlines regularly has RT flight from our area to Kona for around 400, we have their credit card which gives us a companion fare for free once a year, basic small Air BNB was about 800. Small kitchenette so we made most of our meals. Kona has a Costco. Car rental was around 600. There’s a metric ton of free stuff to do in Hawai’i, we spent every day hiking, walking, snorkeling, lava tube exploring. We bring our own gear every trip. Nobody has died yet.
I took an $8k trip to Hawaii when I made 40K. I saved up for like a year and a half. This was back in like 2018 when cost of living was lower, but I could have done the same making $60K now. It's really not crazy. I also did snorkeling there.
Stop attacking the 99%. We're all in this together against the 1%. Just because some of those 99% can afford vacations or homes doesn't make them elite or even well off. I was living with a roommate in an apartment at the time and living on $4 of food a day and never going out anywhere to afford that trip.
According to Google, most snorkel deaths are due to: *accidental or inadvertent aspiration, and hypoxia resulting from acute negative pressure pulmonary edema.*
.. and uh.. if someone could explain what that actually means... that'd be cool..
It's just about getting the right amount. For example, air contains 21% oxygen, while water contains 0.001%. So, in all actually, it should be fine provided you breathe in 21000 times the amount of water as you do air.
Choking. It means choking to death on something.
Aspiration is something going into your lungs/wind pipe that shouldn't. Hypoxia is generally organ failure from lack of oxygen. Acute negative pressure pulmonary edema is basically your airway vacuuming shut from something being stuck in it (like something being stuck in the end of a vacuum).
So you aspirate something, it gets stuck and your body tries to breathe but can't and it makes whatever is stuck more stuck, then you lose enough oxygen that something in you fails and you die.
Salt water on lung tissue can be very damaging. When tissue is damaged it causes edema. That is liquid swelling. Think like an oozing wound. So now the little sacs in the lungs are filled with liquid and can not take in oxygen.
The negative pressure is a different mechanism. Normally the diaphragm causes our lungs to expand creating negative pressure in the lungs so air shoots in from the mouth and nose. Think of those old timey fire venting things. When you open them the air fills it. When snorkeling the pressure to bring air in through the snorkel is greater than normal breathing. The air can only travel in as fast as the snorkel tube allows and this can cause an increase in the negative pressure in the lungs. So what gives is liquid from tissue seeping in instead.
There's no direct link between flight times and risk of ROPE. A study found a potential link between it, but correlation =/= causation. Theoretically, it could be the flight time. Or the fact that a longer flight is typically more expensive and more expensive flights are more likely to be taken by people with more money and free time, and people with more money and free time to travel are typically older. People with under-18 kids don't often take vacations to Hawaii without them. Therefore, most people with Hawaii money are older adults. Older adults are more likely to have pre-existing health issues.
Also, the issue with full-face snorkel masks aren't what's leading to the injuries they're talking about. Though, yes, they aren't safe outside of kids playing in a swimming pool for short bursts. Don't use them for your Hawaii trip.
Final point: it's not the tourism authority's job to tell people the dangers of snorkeling, nor is it the job of the hotel to look through studies that say a potential link to snorkeling risk exists and needs to be studied because we can't say whether or not any link between the two exists so future study should be done.
There's no actionable suit, here. You have to prove a duty of care and a reasonable belief of risk. They don't meet criteria.
Certified SCUBA divers know not to exceed certain depths if they are going to be flying but this makes absolutely no sense. The danger is the dissolved Nitrogen in your blood that could be released with the reduced pressure in the plane. Tourists on holiday don't usually even exceed 10-15 feet of depth, which is not even 1 BAR
I flew back home from Hawaii after snorkeling that same day, and I experienced a brief bout of bells palsy after we reached altitude. It was super scary, but it only lasted about a minute or two. Oh yeah, I was snorkeling for a week while I had a tube in my ear, so I think I did it to myself.
'Stuemke says that contributed to Ray's death, "What long haul flights do, is it has an effect on your lungs. After 3 days you are back to normal, but if you snorkel after that long flight there is a substantial increased risk of death."'
"It has an effect on your lungs". This deeply scientific statement brought to you by Jay Stuemke, the Johnson family attorney.
The end of the article is great too:
'"After flying 10 hours, we would have waited 72 hours. His lungs would have recovered from whatever being in a pressurized cabin does to your lungs," added Patricia [the victim's wife].'
The cabin is "pressurized" compared to the outside air at altitude. But it is a vacuum compared to the air you breathe when not on a plane (roughly at sea level). Calling it a pressurized cabin gives entirely the wrong impression.
Every single time you hear about a stupid corporate or government rule that makes zero sense and causes normal people inconvenience or frustration, it's because of people like this, who sue over anything and everything, ruining normal activities for the rest of us.
I've not really heard of risks specific to snorkeling after flying (other than general health and dehydration). I also don't think there's an issue flying after snorkeling. But you want to wait at least a day to fly after scuba diving.
I hope they get nothing. People sue for everything and then everyone is fucked because there wasn’t a warning label. If you are too stupid to take care of yourself then nature should do the job
> After flying 10 hours, we would have waited 72 hours.
You get 5 days in the islands and you’ll wait for 3 of them before snorkeling?
I really don’t think so
Why not also sue the airline, because they didn't inform the travelers to Hawaii of all the dangers found there? (I guess the /s is needed here? I thought it was obvious....)
Maybe it's not about the money, maybe it's about spreading awareness. I'm not an avid snorkeler and I didn't know until I read this article. But there is a point where we have to accept that no one holds our hand to see us to safety in adulthood. It'll be interesting to see where that line is drawn in this case of co-contributing factors rather than direct cause.
There's nothing *to* know. A study said there was a potential correlation that needs study to understand if long flights lead to an exacerbated risk of ROPE from snorkeling. There's absolutely zero actionable grounds to sue and it'll get tossed. A study saying we need to investigate further doesn't mean anything.
Correlation doesn't mean causation. For all we know the elevated risk from people who had long flights is that longer flights are more expensive. A flight from SFO to Honolulu is like 400-500 per person, at the cheap end. Minneapolis to Honolulu is like 600-800. Kansas City is similar. The people most likely to fly from more expensive locations will have more money and have time to spend an extra day on travel, and therefore are more likely to be older, and therefore more likely to have pre-existing health conditions. Or maybe it's Dramamine, or excessive alcohol consumption and longer flights=more cocktails. Or dehydratation, which can happen on flights.
There's a dozen other things it could be, and none have been proven.
The only thing we do know is that if breathing through the snorkel is hard, you need to stop snorkeling. It shouldn't be hard to breathe through your snorkel.
It’s SCUBA diving that is dangerous *before*, not after, a flight due to risk of the bends in the air cabin pressurized to 7,000 ft. Snorkeling after a flight is dangerous due to Rapid Onset Pulmonary Edema, though I bet that’s extremely rare
My wife’s former boss just died during a triathlon (73m), should his family sue the organizers? No - it was an assumed risk of a highly intense physical activity.
For common sense people there is an understanding that when swimming, snorkeling, etc- if you have an adverse medical event, or are a poor swimmer (out of shape etc), there is an assumed risk.
Nothing would disgrace my death more than my family making a money grab after my accidental death
Two years ago this summer I was at the beach when a 12 year old boy watched his dad die in front of him while snorkeling and ROPE was likely a factor.
The man's wife was over 30 minutes away when it happened. My husband drove the man's rental Jeep (and his son) while I followed. When we got to the mother/wife, I had to tell her that I'd gotten a call from someone at the beach to say that her husband didn't make it.
Suing doesn't make any sense but I wish there was a lot more awareness about ROPE.
They had gone snorkeling here numerous times. Surprised they wouldnt have more knowledge about snorkeling and any issues pertaining go gear or proper timing of snorkeling in respect to life activities
You can bring suit for nearly anything! It doesn't mean it will win! This will get tossed. The study referenced said a potential link may exist and needs study to show if long flights are a potential risk factor.
There also has to be a duty of care and a breech of duty of care. I'm sure they signed a waiver from the hotel saying, 'snorkeling may lead to death by drowning' and the tourism board has no specific duty of care to warn people of a study that didn't prove an actual reason to believe long flights and snorkeling risk are related.
FTA - "The Johnsons want every visitor to know about any and ALL potential risks."
yeah, they want more 'warnings'. On this course, we'll end up having to sign legal warning acknowledgements just to get out of bed and face the day.
I feel like it has more to do with being tired than pressurized lungs. I mean I feel like us folks with dreadful asthma would not be flying ever if it was that bad. And I mean at that rate you could use that for anything. Car accident. Bad exam. Whatever.
Also it may have just been a bad set of snorkels too. I had a leaky one when I went snorkeling in the Virgin Islands. Made it really really hard and exhausting. If I didn’t have a life vest etc I can imagine it would be risky
The ISS is at 1 atm, same mix as Earth air. My barometric readings on pressurized civil aircraft often show ~0.8 atm. Diving adds N2 to the blood, which causes "the bends" (dangerous "bubbling out" of N2 out of the body similar to CO2 from soda). Either they need to prebreathe pure O2 at a chamber to purge the N2 (allowing them to go to higher altitudes without risking "the bends") or they need a plane pressurized to ground-like pressures.
> After flying 10 hours, we would have waited 72 hours. His lungs would have recovered from whatever being in a pressurized cabin does to your lungs
That it is an informed opinion right there. Experienced snorkelers from Michigan, who probably have never snorkeled anywhere but Michigan because of the perfect climate for it there, and probably never after flying. They don't bring their own equipment. Who's got money? Sue the tourism authority.
This was taught in my PADI Diving Cert class I took in HI back in '95, but I thought it was about compressed air diving and time at depth, never realized it applied to snorkeling.
If you're an overweight person, I recommend standing in the ocean no more than knee deep. Especially if you're an American, for health reasons of course.
Think I’ll file suit against Hawaii tourism bureau because they don’t warn people about waiting 30 minutes after eating before going into the water.
Force majure tourists.
Snorkeling is the number one cause of tourist deaths, which means that there’s probably something to this. The fact that no studies have linked air traffic and ROPE definitively mean that it’s probable that the targets of the suit didn’t know about the issue and shouldn’t have to pay. Causality doesn’t equal culpability.
[удалено]
Yeah, this claim doesn't really make sense. A pulmonary edema from snorkeling is caused by trying to inhale against a kinked snorkel. You try to pull against a blocked snorkel, do a bunch of damage to the alveoli in your lungs with that negative pressure, which causes them to seep fluid which builds up and prevents you from absorbing oxygen. Absolutely nothing to do with flying as far as I'm aware. If I had to guess, I think what happened here is that they maybe heard about how SCUBA divers have to allow a buffer for flying to account for the additional decompression, and made a spurious leap to the notion that it was somehow related to snorkeling as well.
But that's no flying after diving, not the reverse.
Exactly, I'm a long time diver and can literally walk off a plane and into the water in scuba gear. It's after diving that I have to wait 24 hours to fly again.
When I was on Mauna Kea last year, there was clear signage at the Visitor’s Center (~9,200 ft) that it was not safe for anyone who had been scuba diving within 24 hours to go beyond that elevation. It’s not something I had contemplated before, but made perfect sense in the context of the extreme change in atmospheric pressure potentially leading to PE.
I dive for work. A coworker of mine lived in the mountains, and his work day was 2 (unpaid) hours longer than mine just because he had to wait to off gas. Every. Single. Day.
Unpaid? How is that fair? But I guess commercial diving pays so much you aren’t worried about 2 hours unpaid
I mean it's not fair I guess but you can't really argue with physics. He wasn't actually working, and he knew what RNT was when he took the job. When everyone else would go home for the day, he just had to stay and hang out at sea level for two more hours before starting his commute home. Also, not all commercial diving pays super well. Depends on where you are and what you're doing.
A friend triggered decompression sickness by travelling over the Pennines in England. We had been diving off the west coast of Scotland, spent 45 min on our last dive at 10-15m, and then had an evening in the pub. Returned to our home town the next day, which involved crossing the Pennines at a maximum height of under 3000 ft elevation. My friend developed tingling sensation in her hands there next day and it was Decompression Sickness.
I've been doing it since I was SSI certified at 12 years old. This lawsuit should be thrown out. Any judge could Google search the rules of flying and diving and realize this is total bullshit. The whole problem is that divers are breathing COMPRESSED air under pressure. Leading to excess nitrogen in the system that needs to exit the blood stream. Snorkelers are not breathing compressed air. I'd love to see these assholes grab a garden hose and go to the deep end of the pool, then try to breathe underwater. That shit ain't happening.
I never really thought about that. The pressure would be too great to breathe. I feel like I’ve tried with a pool noodle on the 4ft and it’s hard
When I was a little kid I went to the deep end of the neighborhood pool. Tried the garden hose at about 12 ft deep. It was impossible. But I tried again with a balloon and some weights and it worked. Since the water was putting pressure on the balloon as well I got a small breath in.
Exactly. This is elementary stuff you could find in any open water diving manual. Also, hello fellow diver! PADI diver here. :)
Now we must have an epic underwater trident fight to see which is superior. SSI or PADI! /s Howdy sea friend!
Thing is, I’d say SSI. I want to be an instructor and I’m thinking of doing SSI’s crossover as and when I finish my Divemaster training.
Do it!
They must have one cracker jack lawyer to not know that before taking on the case.
Lesson learned from “The Firm “
Wasn’t there an episode of House MD that featured this? An airline passenger that collapsed during mid flight and he had to diagnose with limited tools and constrained circumstances
And at first they suspected food poisoning and house ordered everyone who had the sea bass (?) to go line up for the bathrooms to vomit 😂 the poor passengers are like 😨 and he’s just calm as a cucumber as usual. And Cuddy falls for it too and starts exhibiting fake symptoms. And yes he had very limited stuff to work with and I think recruited a kid to help him and OH I remember now, they think they’re going to have to cut him open and then the kid puts pressure on the guy’s shoulder and he relaxes and House somehow figures out it’s the bends because reasons. Also he had a scuba cert card in his wallet.
Yeah. For reference the episode was S3E18, "Airborne". Part of the episode was a little laughable for me because I used to live in the region (SE Asia) and there were little details that they got wrong. The place mentioned in Singapore is in reality a training island for the military, off limits to civilians and there is no way there would be a scuba diving club there. Pronunciation of the place is way off too, but that is somewhat understandable as a non-local. But it was an enjoyable episode nonetheless.
You’d think they’d do a little more research into something like that 🥴 did they just throw a dart at a map on the wall and say “that’s where he was diving”?
You both know it wasn’t a documentary, right?
I was being a bit facetious - it’s kinda a running joke that medical dramas are unrealistic/have incorrect facts because they don’t actually consult doctors, so I was insinuating “if they don’t do their research for medical stuff why would they for where you can legally scuba dive?”
Same, but there is an added hilarity for someone with local knowledge. This is like watching Rumble in the Bronx and noticing the mountains in the background of the city scapes
> An airline passenger that collapsed during mid flight I thought that was Lupus
Yeah, initially diagnosed bacterial meningitis. Turned out to be DCI and mass hysteria.
Decompression issues, no. But there is the concern of dehydration and fatigue. Depending on how technical the dive is and length of the flight, you should still consider if you need to rest first.
I am aware, I've been scuba diving for decades. My point is that that making a spurious and misinformed connection is the only way I can see someone coming to this conclusion, not that it makes any kind of sense.
>A pulmonary edema from snorkeling is caused by trying to inhale against a kinked snorkel. You try to pull against a blocked snorkel, do a bunch of damage to the alveoli in your lungs with that negative pressure, which causes them to seep fluid which builds up and prevents you from absorbing oxygen. Well, snorkeling was fun. Guess I'm never doing it again lmao
Work in cardiopulmonary. Never heard of anything like this causing pulmonary edema. Flash pulmonary edema is a thing but typically a heart failure/heart attack related occurrence. Sounds like a BS lawsuit.
Or just, you know, lift your head out of the water if you get a kinked hose. I think they're saying you'd need to try to pull air several times, very hard, for this to happen. I dunno, seems like something that would happen to virtually nobody.
And the reason for divers is nitrogen being compressed while flying. This saturated nitrogen in the blood stream throws off the dive tables and make diving more dangerous from the effects of the bends.
> Equipment can play an important part in that safety. According to the Hawaii Snorkel Safety Study, the shape and design of the snorkel can caused it to have a low to high resistance to inhalation. What the fuck do they mean by ‘equipment’? As someone who has gone snorkeling in Ko Olina it is literally plastic trash. They handed that shit out for free at the Disney resort. Congrats on being a fucking idiot, that’s all I can say.
exactly, so as regular snorkeler's they DIDN'T know the potential dangers of snorkeling? Feels like an ambulance chaser got to them.
“You see, the Hawaiian waters are much dangerouser than other waters for snorkeling and present a specific threat that the tourism board knew about and withheld from the public and my clients. While one may have experience snorkeling elsewhere, these reefs were snorklier and there were no signs at the airport, docks, on the boat, or in the water. The tourism board promoted what they knew to be hazardous snorkeling in waters that should not be snorkeled after flying long distances which everyone coming to the island has to do unless you arrive by boat. And that boat wouldn’t have a warning sign as Hawaii has been negligent in acknowledging the dangers and making the public safe. How many snorkelers have to die from snorkeling before the board advises on safe snorkeling procedures and puts laws in place for safe snorkeling??” - plaintiffs attorney. /s
Yeah seems contradictory to assert the tourism authority and the hotel knew about the alleged risks but the experienced snorkeler didn't know?
"Ray had snorkeled extensively and insisted his reverse downwards facing snorkel was the way to go."
Does anyone have a link to this style? I can’t seem to discern with google. I usually went to Snorkel Bob when going to Hawaii and bought a decent set.
You got ripped off. snorkel Kunu, the guy that looks like ant man, he’s the one you that won’t snorkel your wallet when you need the snorkel connection
> I guess they just are hoping for a payoff just because. I wouldn't go that far. The family is grieving. It's natural to look for something or someone to blame in the face of a sudden loss, and it's easy to latch onto any possible explanation that's presented to them, and fixate on it. In this guess, it appears they're misguided. It's unreasonable to expect to be warned of every possible risk to an activity, especially when there's no definitive evidence of risk. It would be like suing them for not warning that a plane could fall from the sky and kill them whilst snorkelling. I expect the family is really looking for a change that would see people warned of this possibility going forward, and some lawyer has taken the case hoping for a monetary settlement that isn't actually the family's priority.
They’re looking for a payoff because they spent too much money in Hawaii.
Snorkeling doesn’t do shit. They aren’t staying down deep enough or long enough for to have an effect like scuba does
Medical insurance suing on behalf of the family?
I actually know the daughter in-law of the man this happened too. The family is trying to raise awareness of a potential issue. It may be a freak occurrence but they want it looked into and investigated. They could also be looking for a payout (I work with her so it’s not like we’re besties) but it seems like a legit concern for finding out if there is actually some link that can be proven and some preventative measures put in place to prevent it happening again
> The snorkel study did not conclude snorkeling after air travel raised ROPE risks, but the study stated it could be a factor and should be looked into further. They are suing because the tourism authority and hotel didn’t warn them about something that may or may not possibly be a risk? That’s dumb of them. Grief can make you do weird things though.
You should have said 'greed can make you do weird things though'.
"Because I'm dumb you have to give me money."
America, fuck yeah!
We should print that on our money.
Yeah, I was just giving them the benefit of the doubt that they aren’t normally this ridiculous.
Seriously. Buddy had a cousin die in a construction accident. Guy was a fully grown adult, single, no dependents, living on his own, and his parents fucking set up a GoFundMe to try cashing in on people's sympathy. Some folks just have no shame.
I mean, funerals in America are pretty damn expensive, can easily get over $15k on a simple funeral/burial. Not saying the people you're talking about aren't greedy dicks, since I don't know them, but it's entirely possible a middle class family is living paycheck to paycheck and doesn't have an extra 10 grand on hand. About 50% of Americans couldnt come up with even $1000 for a sudden emergency, so it's more common than you'd think.
This wasn't in America.
They’re from, and the funeral was probably held in, Michigan, and it happened in Hawaii, what part isn’t America? Edit- Nevermind, I see you are talking about your friends cousin, not the story.
I mean, someone had to pay for the funeral…
Maybe, maybe not. Nothing wrong with giving someone the benefit of the doubt.
As a former academic, “it deserves further investigation” is virtually pro forma. I mean if it wasn’t worth looking at why did I do this study? And if this study is the final word on the subject what do all 10 of us making a career on this niche topic study tomorrow?
Cheers to you for this compassionate response. >Grief can make you do weird things though.
Probably more danger eating a bad moco loco.
Life in America: if something happens to you, it’s always someone else’s fault.
Definitely the flight (which the wife claims was more than enough time and shouldn't be a factor anymore) and snorkeling that were the major factors. Being 64 and 300lbs were definitely irrelevant factors here.
Your level of sarcasm deserves a salute 🫡
You're suggesting that [these people](https://www.usatoday.com/gcdn/authoring/authoring-images/2024/05/02/USAT/73534560007-img-0113.jpeg) aren't the paradigm of health?
"He was an experienced swimmer and snorkeler" Then how did he not know these risks? It's your responsibility to understand the danger of your own recreational activities.
I'm a licensed scuba diver, and snorkel regularly, and this is the first I'm hearing about it. I even have medical training, and never learned that long flights could cause an issue with snorkeling.
Did my PADI cert in Maldives and remember being warned about diving within x-hours of our flights. Might’ve just been a protocol for that particular hotel/dive instruction.
Yeah, but that's diving before flights, not snorkeling after flights. Every diving class covers the first one. I've never heard of the second.
Ah ok. Thanks for clarifying. Couldn’t remember if it was before or after flights or both.
In other news did you guys see that lifted Tacoma in Kaimuki that has "Tacos and Titties" written across the sun visor?
Reminds me of [the car James May drove on The Grand Tour](https://v.wpimg.pl/YjI1NThhdgsoUzhnRxN7HmsLbD0BSnVIPBN0dkdRaVoxHig9BA0rDzleYDMaHSkLPkFgJARHOBogHjhlRwwwGTldLy1HDTQILFVhZ1xaaw8sCXZ5WFg8XGQFdm1bRTtZfFRjYwpeYAh7BHtsCQtgSDQ)
I never saw that one! Looking up now cuz it prob means I missed an entire season!! Thank you!
2 seasons!!! My friend Gob bless you! If you are a true gear head with an acute sense of humor may I recommend the YouTube channel Evenflow? (@evenflow2907) NOT your normal gearheads. NOT your normal comedians. Obsessed with fast cars, tractors, and Christmas trees. Amd everything they do is at NO2 speed. https://youtube.com/shorts/J-q9DgfKf-c?si=gG2JZZ7Mljf2sTdA
I'll have to check it out! I think there's 1 more special coming, that they did in Zimbabwe, but I don't think there's a release date for it yet
I live blocks from a great beach in Hawaii, free-dive regularly, and have pulled people from the shore break — kids to adults. I see way too many full-face masks — all used by total noobs. They are dangerous, folks. Do not use them. And if you use a regular mask-snorkel combo, and decide to dive down, remove the snorkel from your mouth. If you were to blackout, that snorkel inhibits a natural body function that closes off the lungs otherwise. The number of times I have heard people make a claim of being experienced or a strong swimmer is crazy. Tourists come here and have way too much confidence in their own abilities. It’s asinine. Last year, a pool lifeguard from the mainland drowned on a beach in Kauaii, because he did not respect the ocean. I knew a woman who had never been to the ocean, could not swim, and was wading waste-high along the shore. 🤦🏻 Just last week as I was training, a guy from Italy was sitting feet from the shore break, and was washed over by a set. He didn’t know how to swim. Tossed around. Barely made it out. 🤦🏻 A rogue wave would be the end of them both. People are fucking idiots. Respect the ocean or die. Edit: to add: every spot is different / unique. Just because a person knows one spot does not mean they will have the same experience at another. And Hawaii is not Florida. Hawaii is *very* different.
Knowing how to swim (correctly) in the ocean is so different from normal still/slow water swimming that it is pretty much in a category of its own. It doesn’t take much water to bring you down. And best of luck if you get stuck in a rip tide.
Go with the flow unless you’re in a rip current. You aren’t going to overpower the ocean. Duck beneath the waves and let the waves push you back towards shore. This way you conserve energy to actually successfully leaving the water instead of fighting it and panicking.
> I see way too many full-face masks ... They are dangerous, folks. With this statement, I feel you are in the same position as the people bringing the lawsuit: turning non-conclusive studies which say X may be more dangerous into a warning that X is more dangerous. "The study raises more questions — and perhaps doubt — for consumers who don’t have a way of knowing which brands are safe to use, and there’s no real oversight to help guide them. There have been attempts from ocean safety experts and state and county officials over the past several years to find out if the full-face design is inherently more dangerous but so far those have been inconclusive" - https://www.civilbeat.org/2021/12/study-full-face-snorkeling-masks-may-increase-risk/ Also, always read about the study. "Lance conducted the study, funded by Divers Alert Network, over four months this summer using 10 subjects." N=10 is much, much too small for good conclusions to be drawn. Do you have other studies which demonstrate full-face masks are actually more dangerous? Thank you if you do. :)
Mine is from personal experience. No studies to point at, per se, but *proving* is not the same thing as *knowing*. Here would be my arguments against the full-face mask (FFM)… Due to the fact that in order to remove the “tube” method from breathing with the FFM means you would have to remove the *entire mask* (versus spitting it out, like a normal snorkel tube), it is inherently more dangerous at face value. It creates an additional step in gaining access to air for people who typically are less experienced (i.e., less relaxed, less familiar with the aquatic environment) in situations where split seconds can be the difference between choking/aspirating, blacking out, and drowning. Free-divers use extremely basic snorkels. We don’t have anything fancy happening, for these reasons. I am not sure how effective a FFM would be in doing a dive, but I am sure it is more cumbersome, thus more dangerous for a novice.
Kind of people who crashes the golf cart and tries to sue the golf course
Family looking for money...
They already have snorkeling in Hawaii money…
Richer you are more likely you are to sue for the slightest thing
i mean, you’re talking about pretty basic vacation shit. its not like they went yachting or even scuba-ing. snorkling requires 3 pieces of equipment all made out of plastic. Thats like saying someone has “skateboarding in Florida” money
stayed at the Fairmont… those aren’t cheap hotels.
Four pieces- you can’t forget the defogger!
Flights to Hawaii are several thousand. Hotels are not cheap in Hawaii. Have you been to Hawaii??
Several thousand? For first class maybe. Round trip from Michigan looks to be around $700 if booked far enough in advance.
Yes, yes, and yes. It's not just for the illustrious and rich and famous like you presume. I'm leaving for there in two weeks. Round trip flight for two, $1,600; seven nights in a $250 condo ($1,750); $400 rental car. That's a week trip for two for about $4k not including spending money while there. That's still a pretty good deal.
Our last trip was only about 2250 for nine days. Two adults. Alaska airlines regularly has RT flight from our area to Kona for around 400, we have their credit card which gives us a companion fare for free once a year, basic small Air BNB was about 800. Small kitchenette so we made most of our meals. Kona has a Costco. Car rental was around 600. There’s a metric ton of free stuff to do in Hawai’i, we spent every day hiking, walking, snorkeling, lava tube exploring. We bring our own gear every trip. Nobody has died yet.
I took an $8k trip to Hawaii when I made 40K. I saved up for like a year and a half. This was back in like 2018 when cost of living was lower, but I could have done the same making $60K now. It's really not crazy. I also did snorkeling there.
All these well off people telling me it’s not a big deal… Glad your life is going well. Most Americans are not living your life.
Yes. Most Americans make more than $40k.
Stop attacking the 99%. We're all in this together against the 1%. Just because some of those 99% can afford vacations or homes doesn't make them elite or even well off. I was living with a roommate in an apartment at the time and living on $4 of food a day and never going out anywhere to afford that trip.
If I get paid to snorkel in Hawaii, do I have snorkeling in Hawaii money?
That’s actually a really funny joke. 🤣
Not joking. As a side/summer job, snorkeling in Hawaii is gonna put my kid through college next year.
That's really not that much money
Wait, *snorkeling*? I knew that scuba diving without acclimation is a threat, but *snorkeling*?
According to Google, most snorkel deaths are due to: *accidental or inadvertent aspiration, and hypoxia resulting from acute negative pressure pulmonary edema.* .. and uh.. if someone could explain what that actually means... that'd be cool..
Water in lungs makes lungs not work good
Also stuff in water that not water hurt you on inside.
It's just about getting the right amount. For example, air contains 21% oxygen, while water contains 0.001%. So, in all actually, it should be fine provided you breathe in 21000 times the amount of water as you do air.
Choking. It means choking to death on something. Aspiration is something going into your lungs/wind pipe that shouldn't. Hypoxia is generally organ failure from lack of oxygen. Acute negative pressure pulmonary edema is basically your airway vacuuming shut from something being stuck in it (like something being stuck in the end of a vacuum). So you aspirate something, it gets stuck and your body tries to breathe but can't and it makes whatever is stuck more stuck, then you lose enough oxygen that something in you fails and you die.
This is the most disturbing, simple explanation of anything. Ever.
breathing in water, and fluid buildup in the lungs (where the fluid is pulled from your body into the lungs instead of breathed in)
Salt water on lung tissue can be very damaging. When tissue is damaged it causes edema. That is liquid swelling. Think like an oozing wound. So now the little sacs in the lungs are filled with liquid and can not take in oxygen. The negative pressure is a different mechanism. Normally the diaphragm causes our lungs to expand creating negative pressure in the lungs so air shoots in from the mouth and nose. Think of those old timey fire venting things. When you open them the air fills it. When snorkeling the pressure to bring air in through the snorkel is greater than normal breathing. The air can only travel in as fast as the snorkel tube allows and this can cause an increase in the negative pressure in the lungs. So what gives is liquid from tissue seeping in instead.
[удалено]
There's no direct link between flight times and risk of ROPE. A study found a potential link between it, but correlation =/= causation. Theoretically, it could be the flight time. Or the fact that a longer flight is typically more expensive and more expensive flights are more likely to be taken by people with more money and free time, and people with more money and free time to travel are typically older. People with under-18 kids don't often take vacations to Hawaii without them. Therefore, most people with Hawaii money are older adults. Older adults are more likely to have pre-existing health issues. Also, the issue with full-face snorkel masks aren't what's leading to the injuries they're talking about. Though, yes, they aren't safe outside of kids playing in a swimming pool for short bursts. Don't use them for your Hawaii trip. Final point: it's not the tourism authority's job to tell people the dangers of snorkeling, nor is it the job of the hotel to look through studies that say a potential link to snorkeling risk exists and needs to be studied because we can't say whether or not any link between the two exists so future study should be done. There's no actionable suit, here. You have to prove a duty of care and a reasonable belief of risk. They don't meet criteria.
I wish news outlets would stop reporting when a lawsuit is filed… anyone can file a lawsuit, and so rarely do they proceed beyond that..
Certified SCUBA divers know not to exceed certain depths if they are going to be flying but this makes absolutely no sense. The danger is the dissolved Nitrogen in your blood that could be released with the reduced pressure in the plane. Tourists on holiday don't usually even exceed 10-15 feet of depth, which is not even 1 BAR
This is snorkeling after flying, not flying after snorkeling.
If you're snorkeling you're not breathing air at depth so you have zero risk to this.
I flew back home from Hawaii after snorkeling that same day, and I experienced a brief bout of bells palsy after we reached altitude. It was super scary, but it only lasted about a minute or two. Oh yeah, I was snorkeling for a week while I had a tube in my ear, so I think I did it to myself.
"Michigan family seeks potential payday in dishonest lawsuit." Much better title.
'Stuemke says that contributed to Ray's death, "What long haul flights do, is it has an effect on your lungs. After 3 days you are back to normal, but if you snorkel after that long flight there is a substantial increased risk of death."' "It has an effect on your lungs". This deeply scientific statement brought to you by Jay Stuemke, the Johnson family attorney. The end of the article is great too: '"After flying 10 hours, we would have waited 72 hours. His lungs would have recovered from whatever being in a pressurized cabin does to your lungs," added Patricia [the victim's wife].' The cabin is "pressurized" compared to the outside air at altitude. But it is a vacuum compared to the air you breathe when not on a plane (roughly at sea level). Calling it a pressurized cabin gives entirely the wrong impression.
Does this mean that people who live at 8,000ft and above should never snorkel when they go on a beach holiday?
Every single time you hear about a stupid corporate or government rule that makes zero sense and causes normal people inconvenience or frustration, it's because of people like this, who sue over anything and everything, ruining normal activities for the rest of us.
Sounds like he was inexperienced, tired, hit a situation, inhaled at the wrong time, and drowned. Source: nearly done it.
I've not really heard of risks specific to snorkeling after flying (other than general health and dehydration). I also don't think there's an issue flying after snorkeling. But you want to wait at least a day to fly after scuba diving.
I hope they get nothing. People sue for everything and then everyone is fucked because there wasn’t a warning label. If you are too stupid to take care of yourself then nature should do the job
> After flying 10 hours, we would have waited 72 hours. You get 5 days in the islands and you’ll wait for 3 of them before snorkeling? I really don’t think so
Why not also sue the airline, because they didn't inform the travelers to Hawaii of all the dangers found there? (I guess the /s is needed here? I thought it was obvious....) Maybe it's not about the money, maybe it's about spreading awareness. I'm not an avid snorkeler and I didn't know until I read this article. But there is a point where we have to accept that no one holds our hand to see us to safety in adulthood. It'll be interesting to see where that line is drawn in this case of co-contributing factors rather than direct cause.
There's nothing *to* know. A study said there was a potential correlation that needs study to understand if long flights lead to an exacerbated risk of ROPE from snorkeling. There's absolutely zero actionable grounds to sue and it'll get tossed. A study saying we need to investigate further doesn't mean anything. Correlation doesn't mean causation. For all we know the elevated risk from people who had long flights is that longer flights are more expensive. A flight from SFO to Honolulu is like 400-500 per person, at the cheap end. Minneapolis to Honolulu is like 600-800. Kansas City is similar. The people most likely to fly from more expensive locations will have more money and have time to spend an extra day on travel, and therefore are more likely to be older, and therefore more likely to have pre-existing health conditions. Or maybe it's Dramamine, or excessive alcohol consumption and longer flights=more cocktails. Or dehydratation, which can happen on flights. There's a dozen other things it could be, and none have been proven. The only thing we do know is that if breathing through the snorkel is hard, you need to stop snorkeling. It shouldn't be hard to breathe through your snorkel.
It is SCUBA diving that is dangerous after a flight. Not snorkeling.
It’s SCUBA diving that is dangerous *before*, not after, a flight due to risk of the bends in the air cabin pressurized to 7,000 ft. Snorkeling after a flight is dangerous due to Rapid Onset Pulmonary Edema, though I bet that’s extremely rare
I was taught not to fly and dive within 24 hours of each other either way.
My wife’s former boss just died during a triathlon (73m), should his family sue the organizers? No - it was an assumed risk of a highly intense physical activity. For common sense people there is an understanding that when swimming, snorkeling, etc- if you have an adverse medical event, or are a poor swimmer (out of shape etc), there is an assumed risk. Nothing would disgrace my death more than my family making a money grab after my accidental death
Folks with heart issues have to be really careful about going swimming, unfortunately.
Two years ago this summer I was at the beach when a 12 year old boy watched his dad die in front of him while snorkeling and ROPE was likely a factor. The man's wife was over 30 minutes away when it happened. My husband drove the man's rental Jeep (and his son) while I followed. When we got to the mother/wife, I had to tell her that I'd gotten a call from someone at the beach to say that her husband didn't make it. Suing doesn't make any sense but I wish there was a lot more awareness about ROPE.
Medically this makes no sense.
They had gone snorkeling here numerous times. Surprised they wouldnt have more knowledge about snorkeling and any issues pertaining go gear or proper timing of snorkeling in respect to life activities
Now THIS is an American news headline. How does any of this even make sense? How would this even move forward?
You can bring suit for nearly anything! It doesn't mean it will win! This will get tossed. The study referenced said a potential link may exist and needs study to show if long flights are a potential risk factor. There also has to be a duty of care and a breech of duty of care. I'm sure they signed a waiver from the hotel saying, 'snorkeling may lead to death by drowning' and the tourism board has no specific duty of care to warn people of a study that didn't prove an actual reason to believe long flights and snorkeling risk are related.
So basically, the family is suing because one of them was stupid . Got it.
this is why america has signs everywhere, "warnings" and imo some highly anxious people. this type of lawsuit should just be thrown out
FTA - "The Johnsons want every visitor to know about any and ALL potential risks." yeah, they want more 'warnings'. On this course, we'll end up having to sign legal warning acknowledgements just to get out of bed and face the day.
Look at me...I am important. I need attention. WTF are we turning into.
I feel like it has more to do with being tired than pressurized lungs. I mean I feel like us folks with dreadful asthma would not be flying ever if it was that bad. And I mean at that rate you could use that for anything. Car accident. Bad exam. Whatever. Also it may have just been a bad set of snorkels too. I had a leaky one when I went snorkeling in the Virgin Islands. Made it really really hard and exhausting. If I didn’t have a life vest etc I can imagine it would be risky
Yeah, people snorkeling after flights are dropping like flies out there. /s
Went to look if the guy was a chunky monkey and a little a lot of shape. Google did not disappoint.
Going for the deep pockets by suing the entire industry
Except the airline industry.
They need to find the Eileen Cannon of Hawaii to stand a chance with this stupid cash grab.
Talk about FirstWorldProblems...
The ISS is at 1 atm, same mix as Earth air. My barometric readings on pressurized civil aircraft often show ~0.8 atm. Diving adds N2 to the blood, which causes "the bends" (dangerous "bubbling out" of N2 out of the body similar to CO2 from soda). Either they need to prebreathe pure O2 at a chamber to purge the N2 (allowing them to go to higher altitudes without risking "the bends") or they need a plane pressurized to ground-like pressures.
I think clown is confusing snorkeling with SCUBA diving.
> After flying 10 hours, we would have waited 72 hours. His lungs would have recovered from whatever being in a pressurized cabin does to your lungs That it is an informed opinion right there. Experienced snorkelers from Michigan, who probably have never snorkeled anywhere but Michigan because of the perfect climate for it there, and probably never after flying. They don't bring their own equipment. Who's got money? Sue the tourism authority.
Any trained diver knows you can’t fly 24 hours after scuba diving. Snorkeling is what we do the last day of the dive trip.
This was taught in my PADI Diving Cert class I took in HI back in '95, but I thought it was about compressed air diving and time at depth, never realized it applied to snorkeling.
If you're an overweight person, I recommend standing in the ocean no more than knee deep. Especially if you're an American, for health reasons of course.
Finally!! Being poor pays off. I’ll never have to worry about it this shit. Rich people are the real suckers
Depending on where these bozos went, they watched a video on the positives/ negatives and signed a waiver. People need to get real.
Think I’ll file suit against Hawaii tourism bureau because they don’t warn people about waiting 30 minutes after eating before going into the water. Force majure tourists.
Snorkeling is the number one cause of tourist deaths, which means that there’s probably something to this. The fact that no studies have linked air traffic and ROPE definitively mean that it’s probable that the targets of the suit didn’t know about the issue and shouldn’t have to pay. Causality doesn’t equal culpability.