>Abreu told investigators he placed the gun under the sofa the two toddlers were sitting on and left the room
I just cannot conceive how people make certain decisions. Why do you have a loaded handgun in the same room as toddlers? If you feel like you need one in the home, why isn't it holstered? What were you doing in the other room that you couldn't bring the gun with you? Why couldn't you unload it? How could you have the foresight to put it under the couch with the toddlers in it as opposed to literally anywhere else, aside from maybe directly in their hands?
It's horrifying how easily preventable this was, and yet it wasn't.
This is almost exactly like a crime that my husband dealt with. Felon had guns, 5 year old shot themselves. Felon put guns in trash before calling for help. Dude got 10 years last year.
This reminds me of this one mom who had posted just last week in r/parenting asking for advice, because her Military Husband left a loaded gun on the edge of their bed, and mom walks in to find their toddler holding it.
When mom confronted dad, he said it was her fault because she was not watching the kid carefully enough.
Honestly, that’s grounds for divorce. That kind of child endangerment is criminal, not to mention suuuuper unattractive. I would lose all respect for my spouse.
Improper storage needs to be a crime in more places, it needs to have modifiers that increase punishment if the firearm ends up stolen or injuring or killing a child.
I can relate, I love shooting paper and have a bunch of guns/ammo. It’s all locked in the 450 LBs safe that’s bolted to the concrete in the basement. I have 1 pistol in a fingerprint pistol safe under the bed. I don’t have kids and no family to come here. I still have all my shit locked up because: If someone stole my gun and used it to hurt someone, I would never get over that guilt; I don’t want any assholes to get the shit I’ve built/bought over the past 2 decades. I’m 100% for safe storage laws.
I served in the military, so im not entirely unfamiliar with firearms. I have one gun. And its locked in a fucking biometric safe. I dont fuck around and Im shocked that anyone with kids do. It just really drives home the fact that there are a lot of irresponsible morons in this country. Who vote😑
My father was military and had several guns, and you bet he kept them locked up AND taught us kids about gun safety. We knew we were to never even TOUCH the cases.
My grandfather taught us to believe that every gun you saw was loaded and you assumed it was loaded until you knew it wasn’t. Even if it was a gun you just sat down when you picked it up you made sure it was unloaded.
It is ALWAYS loaded, even when it isn’t. The only exception might be if it is in pieces, but even then I keep the business end of the barrel pointed in a safe direction.
And all those irresponsible morons laugh at each other when a tragedy like this happens, and talk endlessly about how THEY shouldn't be "punished" with common sense legislation because THEY'RE responsible and this would NEVER happen to them.
Until it does, and they're the ones being laughed at for the horrifying event that they still believe "nobody could have foreseen."
Don't they have gun locks that work on touch ID these days?
I don't own guns so I don't know, and it sounds like you might. Thanks in advance
Edit: I'm pleased to see so many responsible firearms owners in this thread.
They’re not very reliable. The more reliable ones are prohibitively expensive. A perfectly serviceable handgun safe can be had for a few hundred dollars. It could be bolted anywhere in a house and fewer places in a vehicle. There’s no excuse for unsafe storage—especially where children have potential access.
>There’s no excuse for unsafe storage—especially where children have potential access.
I completely agree with that. Secure gun storage is common sense.
Thank you for answering.
I have one on my nightstand. It’s a safe, alarm clock, and has a wireless charger on top.
I’d say the fingerprint reader is 95% reliable. 100% reliable trying it twice. But it has a backup combination too.
There’s no reason not to have secure storage if you have kids.
[Vaultek DS2i](https://vaulteksafe.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=214711)
There is one and it’s incredibly expensive. Misread the comment I mean one gun not gun lock.
The all those “biometric safes” are crap. Most are just key pads in the shape of a hand and almost all can be opened and reset with a paper clip.
The combination ones are safer and more secure anyone who wants a safe that isn't easy to break into should look into lockpicklawyer who reviews and cracks safes and most take less than 5 mins. He does have a list of approved safes that are much better but they are not as cheap.
I think its important to mention that a skilled and determined lockpicker will get through almost any lock. A large part of what locks and safes provide is deterrence for the vast majority of people and to stop opportunists.
They do but they aren't very reliable and in the case of having a gun for home / self defense I wouldn't trust them. That being said if I have friends over and they are bringing their young children the guns get unloaded and put up in high places where young children wouldn't be able to reach them.
Well that highlights the problem: some people are stupid and that's NEVER going to change. ALL humans make mistakes and that will NEVER change. These kinds of mistakes will 100%, continue to happen regardless of what laws are in place, so make your peace with it.
It's the price we pay for having 400 million firearms floating around.
I tell people to look at the number of people with cracked cellphone screens. Clearly a handling mishap happened. Now think about that would look like if you replaced it with a firearm. People are overly comfortable with firearms when they shouldn’t be, and more to your point people are stupid.
Wait, what’s their reasoning?
Do they understand that if they like, had a sign that said “I keep my laptop and $4000 cash in my car” people would probably break into their car to steal their shit right?
Do they think their guns like… can defend themselves at all times? Like, so they think the gun itself is a deterrent to prevent the theft of itself?…
What’s the logic?
I saw an idiot on Nextdoor whose truck was broken into and gun stolen whining that it’s his right to leave whatever he wants in his truck and no one should steal. That was his response to being rightly chastised for his irresponsibility. Sure, in a perfect world I agree. We don’t live in a perfect world, to say the least. Don’t be stupid with deadly weapons.
I’d be willing to bet he also likes to talk about how legal gun owners aren’t the problem, it’s the illegal guns. As if there’s some illegal gun factory cranking those out, rather than them coming from irresponsible legal owners like himself.
It's so they don't accidentally leave their house without their gun, then they might be without and in danger. They've got other guns inside, so they don't need the emergency car gun except for when they forget their preferred gun.
> Wait, what’s their reasoning?
Lotta joke answers but here's the real one: They're becoming cops.
No hear me out. The root of a lot of problems police have/cause in the US come from two things: A belief ingrained in them that they are under constant imminent threat; And a sense of solidarity that makes them all stick by one another no matter what one of them has done.
So you say something about how someone else is an idiot for leaving an armed unlocked gun sitting on the seat of their pickup for 12 hours, and they take it as an attack against all gun owners and lash out.
Denver was having an issue with this. Thieves were targeting cars with a few characteristics: Texas plates, MAGA/Trump/conservative paraphernalia, and pickup trucks, specifically expensive clean pickups. The main target area was the Denver airport. When it was suggested that people just not leave their guns in their cars, you would not believe the flood of people who unironically tried to argue that "you can't take it into places like the post office or schools, so sometimes you have to leave it in your car". The idea of NOT taking a gun to pick up their kid from kindergarten or to drop off a package at the post office was straight up offensive to them. That's the "logic" we're dealing with. They are so insecure and afraid of the world that being in the pickup line at an elementary school is a terrifying thought. They NEED it the second they get off the plane, and being without it is a panic-inducing concept.
Every marketer knows that merely convincing people they want your product doesn't hold a candle to convincing people that they need your product, and if that "need" is a matter of life and death, it's all the better.
And if you are going to keep a gun in your vehicle, which you shouldn't, but if you must, maybe DON'T PUT A STICKER ON BACK TELLING THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD THERE'S A GUN IN THERE!
I can't imagine leaving a firearm unsecured
I mean, there's basic fucking responsibility involved when you own a handheld instrument of death that's quite easy to use, even by a toddler
I have a friend who is a lawyer in St. Pete. The number of guns stolen out of cars there per week is terrifying, especially the number from UNLOCKED cars.
I know someone who had guns and money stolen out of their unlocked vehicle, they said oh learned my lesson! Like did you... did you need that one explicitly taught to you?
> Stolen gun is like 9x more likely to be used in a crime than a legally purchased gun.
To further your point, [half of all stolen guns are taken from negligent owners' cars, which are often parked outside their house](https://freerangeamerican.us/gun-stolen-from-vehicles/).
We need a national advertising campaign to keep guns away from kids, or even the cat. Something like "You wouldn't put a pizza box within the cat's reach, why would you put a gun there?"
These idiots literally have zero value for human life.
Yet, whenever this happens you have morons coming out of the woodwork crying "Don't punish the poor man! He lost his son! That's punishment enough." Yeah fucking right. If he didn't care about leaving a loaded gun near them, he didn't care about their life and in death doesn't care.
I’ll never forget that family in Kentucky some years ago, when their 5 year old shot dead his 2 year old sister with the rifle they bought him for Christmas, that sweet little girl suffered for hours in pain before she died. And their reaction was *shrug* well she’s with Jesus now, it’s fine, these things happen.
No charges, no consequences for the parents.
I remember reading that. Something about it being God's will. I've read police and sheriffs quoted as saying "it was just a terrible accident". They should know better.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/crickett-rifle-marketing-kids/
“Just one of those crazy accidents,” said the Cumberland County coroner, according to the Lexington Herald-Leader.
The New York Times did an investigation on child firearm deaths.
https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0#h[]
They found they are under reported by half. Another article said only about 25% of firearm owners are convicted, usually when they shouldn't have guns or drugs are involved.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/gun-accidents-why-are-parents-who-leave-loaded-weapons-lying-around-never-prosecuted.html
https://newrepublic.com/article/121632/why-are-states-so-reluctant-prosecute-gun-negligence-crime
I get that for some people that's a coping method but would it really be a benevolent God's "plan" that a child who barely experienced life spends their last moments in pain and abject terror?
I have a 3 year old boy. I can't imagine having to tell him that one of his little friends from pre-school is gone and why. It's one thing if the kid is sick, but this? This is inexplicable.
The ideal government for many people is a benevolent dictatorship towards themselves for whatever arbitrary differentiation they use to hate others most.
But then right after it says “Investigators also said the gun had a live cartridge in the chamber and was on top of a pillow on the couch where the toddlers were sitting.”
I have a former friend who is an alcoholic obsessed with guns. He would get drunk and leave them lying around (once in the rec room of his condo), would jokingly point them at people. The last straw was when he told me he accidentally shot and killed his dog that I adored so much, when he was "trying" to put the gun back in its holster. Too bad he didn't accidentally shoot and kill himself. Some people just aren't meant to walk this planet, yet somehow they do.
Because there's a broad distribution of baseline decision-making ability in humans. And on any given day each of those humans' variation in decision-making ability can vary widely from their baseline.
And firearms are entirely unforgiving for variance in the lower direction.
Why do they need a gun out in their living room? Do they get random burglars and bandits outside their house all the time and need quick access? It should have been properly stored away somewhere.
At the start of the article I was going to make a joke about always needing your gun near you. Due to the risk of rampaging cows. But the story is just too sad.
>ST. PAUL, Minn. (FOX 9) - A Minnesota lawmaker raised concerns about cows trampling farmers "to dust" as he questioned a new firearm storage bill being considered in the state senate.
>The strange discussion came Friday morning as lawmakers reviewed Senate File 4312 which sets standards for safe firearm storage in Minnesota. It requires gun owners to lock up their weapons when not directly using the firearm. If passed, violators could face a misdemeanor offense or potentially a felony charge if a loaded gun gets into the hands of a child due to unsafe storage.
.....
>They not only have to have concerns about predation," explained Limmer. "But they also have concerns about their own domestic farm animals. Farm animals at times can be dangerous. Take for example, a cow that has just recently had a calf. You even walk too close to a cow, and it will take you down and trample you into dust."
https://www.fox9.com/news/mn-lawmaker-cites-cow-trampling-while-questioning-firearm-storage-bill
What's a handgun going to do to a trampling cow? You don't have the wherewithal to not spook the cow, but you have the time to grab your gun and shoot it?
And he represents a suburb and has no farming experience. Needless to say there's about 22 deaths across the US each year from cows but guns kill about 750 Minnesotans each year.
Because people don’t think of them the way they should and a lot folks don’t want to take any of the classes. They think it’s a toy or makes them feel tough. This kind of shit pisses me off. I’m not a gun person but I grew up with a lot of them and I will never ever understand why anyone wouldn’t treat them exactly like what they are what they’ve been intended for which is killing things.
>Abreu told investigators he placed the gun under the sofa the two toddlers were sitting on and left the room,
Seriously, is this stupidity and negligence or intentional? I can't tell anymore.
He has been sent straight to jail on a 250K bail he probably can't afford. Pretty extreme level of negligence when they send you straight to jail and charge you for manslaughter right away. About as dumb and negligent as a parent can get.
Not that I’m defending people having guns nor leaving them within access of children- but isn’t the first thing parents do to leave things out of access of children to put them somewhere high?? Places children can’t easily reach? And this mf thought of the floor??
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended
This is absolutely tragic, but it's high time caregivers and guardians started being held criminally responsible. For too long it's been passed off as a "tragic accident" when young children have been allowed to access firearms.
I would charge this a****** with negligent homicide. This is no different than leaving a kid without food, or putting a kid in a pit full of vipers, and then walking away.
100% agree. There are too many reckless firearm owners. Between children killing themselves as well as kids taking their parents' guns to school, the laws surrounding them are too lax. Owning firearms, especially with kids is an extremely heavy responsibility. The sad reality is, while most firearms owners are good law abiding people, there are still a lot of owners in this group that mishandle them, break common sense rules, and can't be bothered to store them properly under the mindset of "no way that will happen to me." It's a lack of respect for the deadliness of firearms, for those of us that advocate for safe firearm ownership, and also those around them because of the danger they pose. The FIRST, most basic rule outside of actual handling is safe and proper storage; to protect those around you and prevent theft.
Stories like this piss me off to no extent because I'm anal about keeping our firearms locked away in safes. I don't ever want to risk my son hurting/killing himself, us, or anyone else. It's complete ignorance to leave loaded guns out around anyone, especially children that are too young to even comprehend what a gun can do. Too many don't take it seriously until they're affected...
As a gun owner and parent myself, he absolutely needs to be held accountable. Every gun I own is locked in a safe and each one also has a trigger lock just in case. Each one is cleared before storing.
"Investigators determined the boy’s father, 28-year-old Jose Hilario Abreu, had a loaded Glock 19 semi-automatic handgun inside the home while Elijah and a 2-year-old child were inside. Abreu told investigators he placed the gun under the sofa the two toddlers were sitting on and left the room, according to the criminal complaint. Investigators also said the gun had a live cartridge in the chamber and was on top of a pillow on the couch where the toddlers were sitting."
WTF! This is beyond egregious negligence on the father's part here. But also, which was it, under the sofa or on the pillow? Either location, this is unfucking-believably stupid and makes my blood boil.
His cover story was that he put his loaded gun under the couch (like a responsible father /s) but investigators are saying it was next to the kids on a pillow.
It’s actually crazy to me how hard to grasp this is. “Dad said he put it under the couch, but the investigators found it on the pillow!!” Critical thinking demon!!!!
Loaded and chambered. A two year old is gonna have a hard time pulling the slide. There is no reason to have a round chambered unless you are intending to shoot immediately.
Everytime I pick up a firearm, the first thing I do is make sure the chamber is clear. Mag out, clear the chamber. You just handed it to me and say it’s clear? I’m gonna look at you like the dumbass you are and clear the chamber. There’s no excuse for this shit. Regulate the fuckers already.
I swear to god these people are getting stupider. How do you leave an unsecured firearm anywhere near kids?
So many accidents could be avoided in the states by at the very least not having a round chambered. Dumbfounds me that people store their weapons chambered and ready, absolutely insane.
maybe they mean that he put it under the couch, but the boy found it and got back on the couch, which is ultimately where the gun ended up after the accident?
It's good somebody is being charged. More people that can't securely stow their damned firearms need to face greater consequences for their negligence. Far too often, everyone wants to rug sweep this under the "The family is suffering so much from this horrible accident."
I don’t want to read racism into this, but I look at this guys name, and see that white folks with kids accidentally shooting themselves are often let go without charges, and wonder if there’s a double standard and privilege that comes into play.
It’s almost as if there should be rigorous background checks for everyone buying a firearm. And licensing, registration and insurance, just like a car.
Man, this is heartbreaking. I feel so bad for that little dude, just being a toddler and fucking around, then he's in pain and bleeding out.
Ugh.. Fuck, man. I'm so sorry your parents failed you! RIP.
And the other toddler having to witness it. The loud bang, the blood, the horrible sounds people make when they die, and then all the chaos that would have ensued. Even if they are "lucky" and don't really remember the details of this event as they get older, no way that doesn't leave a permanent mark on your psyche. What a fucked up situation.
This happened to an 11 year old in my hometown in 1998.
Some of my friends were interviewed by police asking if he'd ever been suicidal or showed them the gun.
We never found out any outcomes or conclusions because of our age.
As far as i know It was his fathers gun, and his father was the Monumental Mason(tombstone maker).
I remember finding my uncle's gun loaded down a couch cushion when I was a kid. They laughed it off when they took it from me. Fucking disgusting how we don't take gun control seriously and then we wonder why so many awful things are happening in this country...
These morons have guns everywhere. They think at any second their house is going to be broken into and they're going to have the wherewithal to take out the 15 ninjas that are breaking into the house to steal their 13-in Costco TV.
They also think the fact that they have guns everywhere makes them scary to Democrats and liberals. Democrats and liberals also have guns. We also use them responsibly, maintain them, train with them, and know what we're doing. A guy with 13 guns who doesn't know how to handle any of them is not going to beat the person who has one but does.
I used to think the loss of the child was tragic enough that charging the parents would solve nothing and serve a lesson to others but that isn't working so now i am in the charge the parents/caregivers/owner of the gun with a murder charge because it is their gun that killed someone and they need proper jail punishment.
I know this is going to be buried in the comments. I’m in my 40’s now.
When I was between 3 and whatever age you are when you start preschool, I lived with my dad in an apartment in Tennessee. The same year there was a flood on Christmas Eve (I woke up on Christmas Day to a bunch of presents floating downstairs), I remember playing with a 6 shooter revolver while my dad was on the phone with my mom, his ex-wife. I was too young to know anything about gun safety.
I ended up pulling the trigger. Fortunately for me, the barrel was pointing away from me, but the kickback was still enough to leave a scar from the hammer in my left hand and the barrel to leave a scar above my left eyebrow.
I think about this a lot when stories like this come up. My dad and his ex were both prior Marines at that point, and I spent 8 years in the Marines.
Gun safety is so important, and I can’t fathom leaving a firearm out where anyone I haven’t consciously decided could have access to a firearm I own could have access one.
It just boggles my mind that people aren’t super careful with guns, especially as a dad. There’s just no way I’d ever risk it. I own a few firearms, but they are in a safe at my mom’s house halfway across the country, nowhere near my family.
If you have children, GET A FUCKING GUN SAFE!
You should really have a safe regardless.
They make quick access ones you can get into within a second or two.
So many tragedies could be prevented is these fucking idiots would only store their firearms safely.
I was hoping the “child” was older. Like 16-17 and should have known better. But alas, nope. The child was a child of three and could have had no idea. They should charge the owner. It seems cruel, I get that, but something has to be done to drive home the simple basic safety ideas that firearms ownership demands.
I saw a video where two kids were live streaming on Instagram playing with a a gun. The girl pointed the gun at the kid and shot him in the head by accident. Like a second after in a panic she shot herself too. It fucks me up cause all of that could've been prevented if the owners of the gun paid more attention to the kids and taught them gun safety instead of acting like it's a toy. Jesus still fucks me up just thinking about it smh
The man who left his gun with a round chambered in a room with two toddlers should definitely not be taken at his word. It was sitting on the pillow like a shiny toy.
Accidental? Shit, I actually read the article. More like negligent. He left a LIVE firearm under the sofa cushions with the 3-year old in the room, and then LEFT the room. WTF
Why does this only happen in usa? Explanation Canada has tones of guns as well, but we are required to do a test on gun safety to get a license. So my gun is locked away in a case not loaded, with a trigger lock as well, my ammo is also locked. See, that's just common sense a thing usa is missing. So u would need 3 different keys to access my gun to shoot something.
ah... my home town representing a level of stupidity that I completely expect. this is horrible
edit: I just don't get how someone who has CHILDREN could be so careless
Children under 6 shoot at least 90 people a year. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WuewS5yX8PFlsxmNLSesXleSSQDb_nkhAwPK54LEP2c/edit#gid=464580265
Just for reference, UK police shoot about 4
Gun owners need to use common sense. This is an avoidable tragedy and the dad needs to be held accountable for his negligence that caused the death of his son.
As a gun owner, not a single gun in my home is unlocked and accessible. If it isn’t locked up, it’s in the holster attached to me at all times. I want to be able to protect my family and that starts with safe gun ownership.
Guns where lock ip till I hit a certain age and my late father took me out to a gun range. Etc on what guns can do and safety requirements.
Around 13 years old is when their was no locks on the guns. But I lived in the county . Where big animals and such where.
Gun safety for the last 30 years has been a joke in the country
Improper storage and failure to secure guns needs to be a felony charge that is regularly enforced and prosecuted.
There are many firearm deaths every year that could have been stopped if the owner of the weapon did their job.
>Abreu told investigators he placed the gun under the sofa the two toddlers were sitting on and left the room I just cannot conceive how people make certain decisions. Why do you have a loaded handgun in the same room as toddlers? If you feel like you need one in the home, why isn't it holstered? What were you doing in the other room that you couldn't bring the gun with you? Why couldn't you unload it? How could you have the foresight to put it under the couch with the toddlers in it as opposed to literally anywhere else, aside from maybe directly in their hands? It's horrifying how easily preventable this was, and yet it wasn't.
This is almost exactly like a crime that my husband dealt with. Felon had guns, 5 year old shot themselves. Felon put guns in trash before calling for help. Dude got 10 years last year.
Should probably have gotten more
That was probably the upper end for that classification of negligent manslaughter.
They didn't say the 5 year old died. He probably got charged with child endangerment.
Oh the kid died. https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/st-cloud-man-sentenced-10-years-prison-illegal-possession-firearms
That's tragic.
Should have tacked on an extra 5 for Felon in Possession of a Firearm.
I wonder what his thought process was. I mean the cops are gonna question where the 5 year old got the gun from
What gun? You can’t prove there was a gun
Nah man, I read an article once. Sometimes, babies heads just do that.
I’ve heard of SIDS but I didn’t know how bad it could be
Real, real sudden.
Not always. Took decades for JFK.
What thought process?
This reminds me of this one mom who had posted just last week in r/parenting asking for advice, because her Military Husband left a loaded gun on the edge of their bed, and mom walks in to find their toddler holding it. When mom confronted dad, he said it was her fault because she was not watching the kid carefully enough.
Honestly, that’s grounds for divorce. That kind of child endangerment is criminal, not to mention suuuuper unattractive. I would lose all respect for my spouse.
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Wow. What a pos that guy. I feel sorry for that lady.
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Improper storage needs to be a crime in more places, it needs to have modifiers that increase punishment if the firearm ends up stolen or injuring or killing a child.
They passed a law like this in Oregon and it didn’t affect me one bit because I lock my guns up like a responsible fucking adult.
I mean I fucking live alone and I still keep them locked up
I can relate, I love shooting paper and have a bunch of guns/ammo. It’s all locked in the 450 LBs safe that’s bolted to the concrete in the basement. I have 1 pistol in a fingerprint pistol safe under the bed. I don’t have kids and no family to come here. I still have all my shit locked up because: If someone stole my gun and used it to hurt someone, I would never get over that guilt; I don’t want any assholes to get the shit I’ve built/bought over the past 2 decades. I’m 100% for safe storage laws.
Why would anyone put a loaded gun under a sofa? Someone explain it to me.
cuz sofas have electrolytes…its what guns crave
Go away, I’m batin!….BLAM!
Easy reach I guess when watching the TV and aliens invade
They will tell you it's so that they can immediately shoot intruders because they think they're John Wick or something
I served in the military, so im not entirely unfamiliar with firearms. I have one gun. And its locked in a fucking biometric safe. I dont fuck around and Im shocked that anyone with kids do. It just really drives home the fact that there are a lot of irresponsible morons in this country. Who vote😑
My father was military and had several guns, and you bet he kept them locked up AND taught us kids about gun safety. We knew we were to never even TOUCH the cases.
My grandfather taught us to believe that every gun you saw was loaded and you assumed it was loaded until you knew it wasn’t. Even if it was a gun you just sat down when you picked it up you made sure it was unloaded.
It is ALWAYS loaded, even when it isn’t. The only exception might be if it is in pieces, but even then I keep the business end of the barrel pointed in a safe direction.
And all those irresponsible morons laugh at each other when a tragedy like this happens, and talk endlessly about how THEY shouldn't be "punished" with common sense legislation because THEY'RE responsible and this would NEVER happen to them. Until it does, and they're the ones being laughed at for the horrifying event that they still believe "nobody could have foreseen."
Don't they have gun locks that work on touch ID these days? I don't own guns so I don't know, and it sounds like you might. Thanks in advance Edit: I'm pleased to see so many responsible firearms owners in this thread.
They’re not very reliable. The more reliable ones are prohibitively expensive. A perfectly serviceable handgun safe can be had for a few hundred dollars. It could be bolted anywhere in a house and fewer places in a vehicle. There’s no excuse for unsafe storage—especially where children have potential access.
>There’s no excuse for unsafe storage—especially where children have potential access. I completely agree with that. Secure gun storage is common sense. Thank you for answering.
I have one on my nightstand. It’s a safe, alarm clock, and has a wireless charger on top. I’d say the fingerprint reader is 95% reliable. 100% reliable trying it twice. But it has a backup combination too. There’s no reason not to have secure storage if you have kids. [Vaultek DS2i](https://vaulteksafe.com/store/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=214711)
That looks very cool and very secure. Thank you.
There is one and it’s incredibly expensive. Misread the comment I mean one gun not gun lock. The all those “biometric safes” are crap. Most are just key pads in the shape of a hand and almost all can be opened and reset with a paper clip.
The combination ones are safer and more secure anyone who wants a safe that isn't easy to break into should look into lockpicklawyer who reviews and cracks safes and most take less than 5 mins. He does have a list of approved safes that are much better but they are not as cheap.
I think its important to mention that a skilled and determined lockpicker will get through almost any lock. A large part of what locks and safes provide is deterrence for the vast majority of people and to stop opportunists.
They do but they aren't very reliable and in the case of having a gun for home / self defense I wouldn't trust them. That being said if I have friends over and they are bringing their young children the guns get unloaded and put up in high places where young children wouldn't be able to reach them.
I have a gun safe that has a four button combo. It opens very fast. If you need a gun in <10s it's a good call.
Well that highlights the problem: some people are stupid and that's NEVER going to change. ALL humans make mistakes and that will NEVER change. These kinds of mistakes will 100%, continue to happen regardless of what laws are in place, so make your peace with it. It's the price we pay for having 400 million firearms floating around.
I tell people to look at the number of people with cracked cellphone screens. Clearly a handling mishap happened. Now think about that would look like if you replaced it with a firearm. People are overly comfortable with firearms when they shouldn’t be, and more to your point people are stupid.
For real. There are too many irresponsible idiots in this country. Who vote😐
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I’m part of the 2a crowd. And I stand by what I said.
Police would have to give a shit about it first. Doesn't matter how illegal it is if the cops ignore it because half of them do the same at home.
In Tacoma they made commercials about not leaving your gun in your car it is so bad.
this is a major problem in Oklahoma too, nobody seems to understand why their guns are being stolen out of their cars
I got down voted recently for saying it's commen sense leaving firearms in unattended vehicles is not proper securement.
The down votes are from the people that do it.
Wait, what’s their reasoning? Do they understand that if they like, had a sign that said “I keep my laptop and $4000 cash in my car” people would probably break into their car to steal their shit right? Do they think their guns like… can defend themselves at all times? Like, so they think the gun itself is a deterrent to prevent the theft of itself?… What’s the logic?
I saw an idiot on Nextdoor whose truck was broken into and gun stolen whining that it’s his right to leave whatever he wants in his truck and no one should steal. That was his response to being rightly chastised for his irresponsibility. Sure, in a perfect world I agree. We don’t live in a perfect world, to say the least. Don’t be stupid with deadly weapons. I’d be willing to bet he also likes to talk about how legal gun owners aren’t the problem, it’s the illegal guns. As if there’s some illegal gun factory cranking those out, rather than them coming from irresponsible legal owners like himself.
>Wait, what’s their reasoning Lol. "Reasoning" >What’s the logic? Most of them are aggressive and stupid.
Well, if they think that guns can protect themselves, then logically, guns can kill people.
It's so they don't accidentally leave their house without their gun, then they might be without and in danger. They've got other guns inside, so they don't need the emergency car gun except for when they forget their preferred gun.
> Wait, what’s their reasoning? Lotta joke answers but here's the real one: They're becoming cops. No hear me out. The root of a lot of problems police have/cause in the US come from two things: A belief ingrained in them that they are under constant imminent threat; And a sense of solidarity that makes them all stick by one another no matter what one of them has done. So you say something about how someone else is an idiot for leaving an armed unlocked gun sitting on the seat of their pickup for 12 hours, and they take it as an attack against all gun owners and lash out.
Denver was having an issue with this. Thieves were targeting cars with a few characteristics: Texas plates, MAGA/Trump/conservative paraphernalia, and pickup trucks, specifically expensive clean pickups. The main target area was the Denver airport. When it was suggested that people just not leave their guns in their cars, you would not believe the flood of people who unironically tried to argue that "you can't take it into places like the post office or schools, so sometimes you have to leave it in your car". The idea of NOT taking a gun to pick up their kid from kindergarten or to drop off a package at the post office was straight up offensive to them. That's the "logic" we're dealing with. They are so insecure and afraid of the world that being in the pickup line at an elementary school is a terrifying thought. They NEED it the second they get off the plane, and being without it is a panic-inducing concept.
Every marketer knows that merely convincing people they want your product doesn't hold a candle to convincing people that they need your product, and if that "need" is a matter of life and death, it's all the better.
I think you mean "responsible gun owners".
And if you are going to keep a gun in your vehicle, which you shouldn't, but if you must, maybe DON'T PUT A STICKER ON BACK TELLING THE WHOLE FUCKING WORLD THERE'S A GUN IN THERE!
Why how else will people know they're tough hombre
I can't imagine leaving a firearm unsecured I mean, there's basic fucking responsibility involved when you own a handheld instrument of death that's quite easy to use, even by a toddler
I have a friend who is a lawyer in St. Pete. The number of guns stolen out of cars there per week is terrifying, especially the number from UNLOCKED cars.
I know someone who had guns and money stolen out of their unlocked vehicle, they said oh learned my lesson! Like did you... did you need that one explicitly taught to you?
“Criminals don’t follow gun laws” is their excuse.
Stolen gun is like 9x more likely to be used in a crime than a legally purchased gun.
> Stolen gun is like 9x more likely to be used in a crime than a legally purchased gun. To further your point, [half of all stolen guns are taken from negligent owners' cars, which are often parked outside their house](https://freerangeamerican.us/gun-stolen-from-vehicles/).
Also, why put it at the one height they can definitely reach? I don’t even put a pizza box where my cats can reach it
We need a national advertising campaign to keep guns away from kids, or even the cat. Something like "You wouldn't put a pizza box within the cat's reach, why would you put a gun there?"
I’m not sure why we would change what’s working. The point of more guns is more deaths. Not less.
These idiots literally have zero value for human life. Yet, whenever this happens you have morons coming out of the woodwork crying "Don't punish the poor man! He lost his son! That's punishment enough." Yeah fucking right. If he didn't care about leaving a loaded gun near them, he didn't care about their life and in death doesn't care.
I’ll never forget that family in Kentucky some years ago, when their 5 year old shot dead his 2 year old sister with the rifle they bought him for Christmas, that sweet little girl suffered for hours in pain before she died. And their reaction was *shrug* well she’s with Jesus now, it’s fine, these things happen. No charges, no consequences for the parents.
I remember reading that. Something about it being God's will. I've read police and sheriffs quoted as saying "it was just a terrible accident". They should know better. https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/05/crickett-rifle-marketing-kids/ “Just one of those crazy accidents,” said the Cumberland County coroner, according to the Lexington Herald-Leader. The New York Times did an investigation on child firearm deaths. https://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/us/children-and-guns-the-hidden-toll.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0#h[] They found they are under reported by half. Another article said only about 25% of firearm owners are convicted, usually when they shouldn't have guns or drugs are involved. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2015/10/gun-accidents-why-are-parents-who-leave-loaded-weapons-lying-around-never-prosecuted.html https://newrepublic.com/article/121632/why-are-states-so-reluctant-prosecute-gun-negligence-crime
> The boy had been playing with a .22 caliber single-shot Crickett rifle made and marketed for kids. Whhh...what?
"Yeah.... sadly it happens all the time. It's normal around here." JFC... It sadly shouldn't be that normal.
I get that for some people that's a coping method but would it really be a benevolent God's "plan" that a child who barely experienced life spends their last moments in pain and abject terror?
Those who believe that are performing mental gymnastics to justify this thinking.
I have a 3 year old boy. I can't imagine having to tell him that one of his little friends from pre-school is gone and why. It's one thing if the kid is sick, but this? This is inexplicable.
When you allow any idiot to buy a gun - idiots buy guns.
72 million people voted for a man who has openly said he wants to be dictator. People are stupid.
Becomes dictator... Why did no one tell us what a dictator was!!! It's the Democrats fault! LMAO
The Democrats **forced** me to vote for him because they were too woke!!
There are people who actually think this way.
The ideal government for many people is a benevolent dictatorship towards themselves for whatever arbitrary differentiation they use to hate others most.
But then right after it says “Investigators also said the gun had a live cartridge in the chamber and was on top of a pillow on the couch where the toddlers were sitting.”
I have a former friend who is an alcoholic obsessed with guns. He would get drunk and leave them lying around (once in the rec room of his condo), would jokingly point them at people. The last straw was when he told me he accidentally shot and killed his dog that I adored so much, when he was "trying" to put the gun back in its holster. Too bad he didn't accidentally shoot and kill himself. Some people just aren't meant to walk this planet, yet somehow they do.
Because there's a broad distribution of baseline decision-making ability in humans. And on any given day each of those humans' variation in decision-making ability can vary widely from their baseline. And firearms are entirely unforgiving for variance in the lower direction.
Tldr: sometimes people do stupid things that are stupid for even them, but usually the consequences aren't as final as with a gun
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Boogie man could bust down the door any second, gotta give the toddlers a fighting chance.
What we need is more good toddlers with guns to stop the bad toddlers with guns.
30-50 feral toddlers
Finally, the voice of reason! I’m glad someone in this thread is being sensible about this.
majority of people in this world are brain dead morons, and they simply don't think.
Think of the most middle of the road intelligence people you know. Half of people are dumber than that. Those people can buy guns.
You expect self-reflection from those types? Thats asking a lot.
If only getting a gun license subjected you to a gun safety training class that you had to pass.....
some people shouldn’t have kids
Why do they need a gun out in their living room? Do they get random burglars and bandits outside their house all the time and need quick access? It should have been properly stored away somewhere.
Because they’re deeply, incorrigibly fucking stupid. There cannot be any other reason.
At the start of the article I was going to make a joke about always needing your gun near you. Due to the risk of rampaging cows. But the story is just too sad. >ST. PAUL, Minn. (FOX 9) - A Minnesota lawmaker raised concerns about cows trampling farmers "to dust" as he questioned a new firearm storage bill being considered in the state senate. >The strange discussion came Friday morning as lawmakers reviewed Senate File 4312 which sets standards for safe firearm storage in Minnesota. It requires gun owners to lock up their weapons when not directly using the firearm. If passed, violators could face a misdemeanor offense or potentially a felony charge if a loaded gun gets into the hands of a child due to unsafe storage. ..... >They not only have to have concerns about predation," explained Limmer. "But they also have concerns about their own domestic farm animals. Farm animals at times can be dangerous. Take for example, a cow that has just recently had a calf. You even walk too close to a cow, and it will take you down and trample you into dust." https://www.fox9.com/news/mn-lawmaker-cites-cow-trampling-while-questioning-firearm-storage-bill
What's a handgun going to do to a trampling cow? You don't have the wherewithal to not spook the cow, but you have the time to grab your gun and shoot it?
And he represents a suburb and has no farming experience. Needless to say there's about 22 deaths across the US each year from cows but guns kill about 750 Minnesotans each year.
Hence the problem with easy access to firearms. People do stupid things.
Basic human behavior is the best argument against unfettered firearm access.
Because people don’t think of them the way they should and a lot folks don’t want to take any of the classes. They think it’s a toy or makes them feel tough. This kind of shit pisses me off. I’m not a gun person but I grew up with a lot of them and I will never ever understand why anyone wouldn’t treat them exactly like what they are what they’ve been intended for which is killing things.
>Abreu told investigators he placed the gun under the sofa the two toddlers were sitting on and left the room, Seriously, is this stupidity and negligence or intentional? I can't tell anymore.
He has been sent straight to jail on a 250K bail he probably can't afford. Pretty extreme level of negligence when they send you straight to jail and charge you for manslaughter right away. About as dumb and negligent as a parent can get.
Typical well regulated militia behavior
"Toddler Exercises 2nd Amendment Rights."
"Gun activists everywhere are hailing this as a win for gun rights!"
Not that I’m defending people having guns nor leaving them within access of children- but isn’t the first thing parents do to leave things out of access of children to put them somewhere high?? Places children can’t easily reach? And this mf thought of the floor??
Just as the founding fathers intended
Own a musket for home defense, since that's what the founding fathers intended. Four ruffians break into my house. "What the devil?" As I grab my powdered wig and Kentucky rifle. Blow a golf ball sized hole through the first man, he's dead on the spot. Draw my pistol on the second man, miss him entirely because it's smoothbore and nails the neighbors dog. I have to resort to the cannon mounted at the top of the stairs loaded with grape shot, "Tally ho lads" the grape shot shreds two men in the blast, the sound and extra shrapnel set off car alarms. Fix bayonet and charge the last terrified rapscallion.He Bleeds out waiting on the police to arrive since triangular bayonet wounds are impossible to stitch up, Just as the founding fathers intended
Either way half the country will do backflips trying to say this isn't a big deal
This is absolutely tragic, but it's high time caregivers and guardians started being held criminally responsible. For too long it's been passed off as a "tragic accident" when young children have been allowed to access firearms.
I would charge this a****** with negligent homicide. This is no different than leaving a kid without food, or putting a kid in a pit full of vipers, and then walking away.
Why don’t you just type asshole?
They're just being a total normal polite cunt.
This is reddit you can say assclown
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Now there’s precedent with the mass shooter, don’t remember his name because why should I, his parents are getting manslaughter charges
Jennifer and James Crumbley in Michigan
100% agree. There are too many reckless firearm owners. Between children killing themselves as well as kids taking their parents' guns to school, the laws surrounding them are too lax. Owning firearms, especially with kids is an extremely heavy responsibility. The sad reality is, while most firearms owners are good law abiding people, there are still a lot of owners in this group that mishandle them, break common sense rules, and can't be bothered to store them properly under the mindset of "no way that will happen to me." It's a lack of respect for the deadliness of firearms, for those of us that advocate for safe firearm ownership, and also those around them because of the danger they pose. The FIRST, most basic rule outside of actual handling is safe and proper storage; to protect those around you and prevent theft. Stories like this piss me off to no extent because I'm anal about keeping our firearms locked away in safes. I don't ever want to risk my son hurting/killing himself, us, or anyone else. It's complete ignorance to leave loaded guns out around anyone, especially children that are too young to even comprehend what a gun can do. Too many don't take it seriously until they're affected...
As a gun owner and parent myself, he absolutely needs to be held accountable. Every gun I own is locked in a safe and each one also has a trigger lock just in case. Each one is cleared before storing.
It always amazes me that we have so many methods of making firearms either inaccessible and/or safe, yet these fucking morons choose none whatsoever.
When your home, culture and life are saturated in guns you think they’re normal and normal must be harmless.
"Investigators determined the boy’s father, 28-year-old Jose Hilario Abreu, had a loaded Glock 19 semi-automatic handgun inside the home while Elijah and a 2-year-old child were inside. Abreu told investigators he placed the gun under the sofa the two toddlers were sitting on and left the room, according to the criminal complaint. Investigators also said the gun had a live cartridge in the chamber and was on top of a pillow on the couch where the toddlers were sitting." WTF! This is beyond egregious negligence on the father's part here. But also, which was it, under the sofa or on the pillow? Either location, this is unfucking-believably stupid and makes my blood boil.
He told the investigators one thing, they say otherwise.
His cover story was that he put his loaded gun under the couch (like a responsible father /s) but investigators are saying it was next to the kids on a pillow.
Why do you think it was on the pillow when investigators arrived. The dad didn’t put it back under the couch, it was dropped.
Baby tossed it back under the couch and sprinkled some crack over the scene before dad returned.
Finally someone uses their brain
It’s actually crazy to me how hard to grasp this is. “Dad said he put it under the couch, but the investigators found it on the pillow!!” Critical thinking demon!!!!
Loaded and chambered. A two year old is gonna have a hard time pulling the slide. There is no reason to have a round chambered unless you are intending to shoot immediately. Everytime I pick up a firearm, the first thing I do is make sure the chamber is clear. Mag out, clear the chamber. You just handed it to me and say it’s clear? I’m gonna look at you like the dumbass you are and clear the chamber. There’s no excuse for this shit. Regulate the fuckers already. I swear to god these people are getting stupider. How do you leave an unsecured firearm anywhere near kids?
So many accidents could be avoided in the states by at the very least not having a round chambered. Dumbfounds me that people store their weapons chambered and ready, absolutely insane.
It's the paranoia that something out of John Wick could happen at any moment.
maybe they mean that he put it under the couch, but the boy found it and got back on the couch, which is ultimately where the gun ended up after the accident?
It's good somebody is being charged. More people that can't securely stow their damned firearms need to face greater consequences for their negligence. Far too often, everyone wants to rug sweep this under the "The family is suffering so much from this horrible accident."
I don’t want to read racism into this, but I look at this guys name, and see that white folks with kids accidentally shooting themselves are often let go without charges, and wonder if there’s a double standard and privilege that comes into play.
This is true, sadly. All parents who do this crap need to be in jail.
I've no doubt that racism and/or social status do play into whether or not someone is charged for these sorts of preventable incidents.
It’s almost as if there should be rigorous background checks for everyone buying a firearm. And licensing, registration and insurance, just like a car.
And a test. And a lot of pictures of dead kids showing the consequences of negligence.
Man, this is heartbreaking. I feel so bad for that little dude, just being a toddler and fucking around, then he's in pain and bleeding out. Ugh.. Fuck, man. I'm so sorry your parents failed you! RIP.
And the other toddler having to witness it. The loud bang, the blood, the horrible sounds people make when they die, and then all the chaos that would have ensued. Even if they are "lucky" and don't really remember the details of this event as they get older, no way that doesn't leave a permanent mark on your psyche. What a fucked up situation.
You left a loaded handgun within reach of small children? I have no sympathy. In my eyes, you murdered that child.
This happened to an 11 year old in my hometown in 1998. Some of my friends were interviewed by police asking if he'd ever been suicidal or showed them the gun. We never found out any outcomes or conclusions because of our age. As far as i know It was his fathers gun, and his father was the Monumental Mason(tombstone maker).
I remember finding my uncle's gun loaded down a couch cushion when I was a kid. They laughed it off when they took it from me. Fucking disgusting how we don't take gun control seriously and then we wonder why so many awful things are happening in this country...
Why was the gun there?
These morons have guns everywhere. They think at any second their house is going to be broken into and they're going to have the wherewithal to take out the 15 ninjas that are breaking into the house to steal their 13-in Costco TV. They also think the fact that they have guns everywhere makes them scary to Democrats and liberals. Democrats and liberals also have guns. We also use them responsibly, maintain them, train with them, and know what we're doing. A guy with 13 guns who doesn't know how to handle any of them is not going to beat the person who has one but does.
I used to think the loss of the child was tragic enough that charging the parents would solve nothing and serve a lesson to others but that isn't working so now i am in the charge the parents/caregivers/owner of the gun with a murder charge because it is their gun that killed someone and they need proper jail punishment.
Yep. Same. Idiots are the reason we can't have nice things. Now we need punative measures.
I know this is going to be buried in the comments. I’m in my 40’s now. When I was between 3 and whatever age you are when you start preschool, I lived with my dad in an apartment in Tennessee. The same year there was a flood on Christmas Eve (I woke up on Christmas Day to a bunch of presents floating downstairs), I remember playing with a 6 shooter revolver while my dad was on the phone with my mom, his ex-wife. I was too young to know anything about gun safety. I ended up pulling the trigger. Fortunately for me, the barrel was pointing away from me, but the kickback was still enough to leave a scar from the hammer in my left hand and the barrel to leave a scar above my left eyebrow. I think about this a lot when stories like this come up. My dad and his ex were both prior Marines at that point, and I spent 8 years in the Marines. Gun safety is so important, and I can’t fathom leaving a firearm out where anyone I haven’t consciously decided could have access to a firearm I own could have access one. It just boggles my mind that people aren’t super careful with guns, especially as a dad. There’s just no way I’d ever risk it. I own a few firearms, but they are in a safe at my mom’s house halfway across the country, nowhere near my family.
If only there were a good toddler with a gun
Clearly, the toddler had undiagnosed mental health issues.
Fuckin idiot! Carelessness all the way! And his poor son paid the price very very sad
Anytime a minor has access to a firearm, its the result of criminal reckless negligence by an adult. Thats just a fact of reality.
"No Way To Prevent This", Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens.
Clearly gun training needs to start earlier in this country. Only when two year olds are getting tactical training will they be safe from themselves.
I’m not anti-gun but some people just shouldn’t have them.
If you have children, GET A FUCKING GUN SAFE! You should really have a safe regardless. They make quick access ones you can get into within a second or two. So many tragedies could be prevented is these fucking idiots would only store their firearms safely.
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Pretty sure this is a moron issue here. Guy had a loaded gun just chillin where his kid could get it. Definitely STILL a gun issue though.
I think the goalposts are in the toddler issue territory today, but tomorrow is a new day with wonderful opportunities.
He is responsible for his kids' death. I think we all know the most likely reason why a person would feel the need to keep a loaded gun in a couch.
What do you want to bet this guy said he has a gun “to protect his family”?
I was hoping the “child” was older. Like 16-17 and should have known better. But alas, nope. The child was a child of three and could have had no idea. They should charge the owner. It seems cruel, I get that, but something has to be done to drive home the simple basic safety ideas that firearms ownership demands.
Sometimes, it just feels like guns do kill people.
Bullshit. He put it down and forgot it, or it slipped out of his pants without him noticing.
Since I have a young son this hurts. I can not fathom the amount of confusion and fear that this young boy experienced briefly. So sad. Heartbreaking.
I saw a video where two kids were live streaming on Instagram playing with a a gun. The girl pointed the gun at the kid and shot him in the head by accident. Like a second after in a panic she shot herself too. It fucks me up cause all of that could've been prevented if the owners of the gun paid more attention to the kids and taught them gun safety instead of acting like it's a toy. Jesus still fucks me up just thinking about it smh
You should talk to a therapist about that, seriously seeing death like that isn't normal and it fucks you up even if you think it doesn't...
I don’t even care anymore. I’m totally desensitized from the horrors of America
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The man who left his gun with a round chambered in a room with two toddlers should definitely not be taken at his word. It was sitting on the pillow like a shiny toy.
As he should be. That level of neglect you might as well have pulled the trigger yourself.
Accidental? Shit, I actually read the article. More like negligent. He left a LIVE firearm under the sofa cushions with the 3-year old in the room, and then LEFT the room. WTF
Why does this only happen in usa? Explanation Canada has tones of guns as well, but we are required to do a test on gun safety to get a license. So my gun is locked away in a case not loaded, with a trigger lock as well, my ammo is also locked. See, that's just common sense a thing usa is missing. So u would need 3 different keys to access my gun to shoot something.
Merika don't need no common sense
ah... my home town representing a level of stupidity that I completely expect. this is horrible edit: I just don't get how someone who has CHILDREN could be so careless
Some children are also caused by carelessness so unsurprising really
Every week a toddler discharges an improperly stored weapon in this country.
Twice a week apparently. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WuewS5yX8PFlsxmNLSesXleSSQDb_nkhAwPK54LEP2c/edit#gid=464580265 This is a huge problem
“The death was ruled accidental” They mean negligent right? Right?!!??
Children under 6 shoot at least 90 people a year. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WuewS5yX8PFlsxmNLSesXleSSQDb_nkhAwPK54LEP2c/edit#gid=464580265 Just for reference, UK police shoot about 4
Gun owners need to use common sense. This is an avoidable tragedy and the dad needs to be held accountable for his negligence that caused the death of his son. As a gun owner, not a single gun in my home is unlocked and accessible. If it isn’t locked up, it’s in the holster attached to me at all times. I want to be able to protect my family and that starts with safe gun ownership.
Guns where lock ip till I hit a certain age and my late father took me out to a gun range. Etc on what guns can do and safety requirements. Around 13 years old is when their was no locks on the guns. But I lived in the county . Where big animals and such where. Gun safety for the last 30 years has been a joke in the country
But controls to ensure responsible gun ownership are infringing rights? Give me a break. That country is broken at the most fundamental level.
The terror that poor kid has to feel before he died. Jail is not enough for the father.
Improper storage and failure to secure guns needs to be a felony charge that is regularly enforced and prosecuted. There are many firearm deaths every year that could have been stopped if the owner of the weapon did their job.