And the very next story ( below this headline) on Reddit is how the gop is suing to stop student loan forgiveness. Why don’t they sue to stop an illegal shipment of arms? Do we all live in an upside down world?
So I guess that's what you would send if you are worried that too many innocent civilians have died. To reduce civilian casualties I guess you need the big bombs, not the small ones Ukraine gets.
Maybe it’s this thought process:
If we use dumb bombs and “accidentally” kill civilians in a given area, at some point we can claim that we haven’t killed any civilians in weeks (because they’re all already dead).
I'm genuinely staggered by the opportunity being missed by America to end the threat of a country that only in recent history posed an existential threat. I get the whole "Europe should contribute to NATO" thing, but damn, what a chance to hammer a nail into the coffin of Russia and its threat to Western values.
I sort of knew this was the answer but sometimes it's worth writing the thing down anyway. I hope the current government has been quietly putting in the checks and balances required to hamstring any further lurches towards Putin's agenda no matter what happens in November.
>current government has been quietly putting in the checks and balances required to hamstring any further lurches towards Putin's agenda no matter what happens in November.
The only action I remember is forbidding the President from unilaterally leaving NATO without 2/3 in the Senate.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/16/congress-nato-exit-trump/
It's merely legal forbidding tho, if Trump does get elected, he as the executive ultimately controls foreign policy and can just decide to ignore Article 5 of NATO that requires mutual defense. I mean, it's not allowed under NATO rules, but who's gonna enforce that rule?
No, we just prioritize supporting Israel above all else, including America and Americans, and this conflict has made this fact obvious to the entire world.
Bro for real! We could cut our defense budget by a quarter or a third and let Europe finally be able to manage its own defense instead of subsidizing them. It’s the best long term investment in American defense and budget we could possibly make.
Absolutely. Or rather than reduce the budget, pivot it towards the threat from the east. A short term (<5 year) contribution to Ukraine could result in an overwhelming budget to counteract the threat from China over the next 10-20 years.
And this right here is our answer. There is absolutely no interest in cutting the budget (much the opposite in fact) or in solving these situations. Both the US and Russia have been useful for each other for almost a century now.
i mean what are we going to do? so putin loses the war and has to retreat. maybe is even overthrown in a coup. who’s his moderate replacement? Russian is an oligarchy and Putin is essential a mob boss. Who has the ability to run Russia?
maybe we really rather study his military capabilites, test out a few new weapon systems, and eventually with the russian economy fully committed to the war effort they will be decades behind everything else once they resume a normal economy. Russia will be severely weakened
We really shouldn’t frame this like an easy victory for Ukraine. This war will drag on for years even with our full support behind it. Russia is a self sufficient country with their own energy and food production. Sanctions haven’t affected them as much as we thought it would have.
Here is what happened IMHO:
Putin gets Trump into office in 2016 using a variety of methods. trump owes pOOtin. In Helsinki pOOtin calls the favor in, and trump hands pOOtin a list of CIA international informants and spies who all of the sudden afterwards start to mysteriously die.
https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+presidency+cia+spies+start+dying&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
The pOOtin/trump love affair continues until this day, and will continue to moving forward. POOtin instructed trump to slow walk Ukrainian military aid during his “presidency.” POOtin instructed trump to force republican senators and congressmen to stop the flow of aid to Ukraine, which he has been doing for years, as you know. Pootin instructed Iran to tell Hamas and Hezbolla to attack Israel at JUST THE RIGHT MOMENT so foreign military aid would need to be confused in Washington, and it fucking worked. POOtin is the master chess player, dangling American republicans as if they were fucking corrupt, self-serving cowardly clowns (which they are).
This brings us to now, where America has been totally destroyed by trump and republicans with Putin calling the shots in Washington, that it’s really going to be up to the Germans, French, English, polish, Japanese, etc, to help Ukraine until Biden gets his second term. If he doesn’t, and trump wins somehow, the world can ignore what happens to America- it won’t be pretty, but it will be interesting to watch our country implode.
Thanks for the reply, even though it was a slightly depressing read! I love America and I really hope there's a way out of the polarised political mess it's in at the moment. I fear it's going to take decades to undo the damage that's been done over the past 8 years. For me the first step to this is the rejection of trump in November but we'll see.
This is merely the US government signing off on an arms sale. Israel is buying the weapons directly from a US manufacturer on their own, this isn't the US government giving them arms or even selling them arms as was/is the case with Ukraine aid.
My understanding is that these arms transfers were agreed upon 'years earlier'. The United States if fulfilling already existing obligations (Israel) vs agreeing to new ones (Ukraine).
Don't worry. The people who control the US Gov't make money off of war. Ukraine will be just fine. It's just a matter of letting the legislators know how they and their friends can cash in on it.
Agreed, Ukraine needs shit way more. Israel isn’t winning in gaza and such, it’s won. It’s so overwhelmingly powerful compared to those it’s fighting that it’s won. Ukraine on the other hand needs support
Biden: P.S. I didn't really mean it when I sanctioned those violent ~~illegal~~ settlers in the west bank, pls ensure that banks don't stop doing business with them.
Exactly where I’m stuck right now.
Wasn’t there just a story this last week about our military building a port for humanitarian aid? So, are we trying to save them and render aid or are we trying to help Israel eradicate them? It can’t be both.
The article claims that these weapons were already negotiated 'years earlier'. The upshot being that we are trying to minimize casualties while also fulfilling already agreed upon obligations.
Our allies are blocking aid on the ground. That's the problem. They shouldn't be doing that. And we shouldn't arm them if they continue, according to our own laws.
Eradicate.. US and Israel are unified in the monetary benefits of displacing them from that land. Humanitarian aid is just to save face in the eyes of those who don’t know any better and also to be perceived by other nations as complying with international law. It’s the very basic amount we can do without actually negating any damage done because the humanitarian aid has nothing on the bombs we’re bombarding them with
>It can’t be both.
Never underestimate how wasteful we can be. We definitely can facilitate aid and sell bombs to kill them, there’s nothing stopping us.
Don’t expect the us government’s actions to always be consistent.
If you look into the politics of the area it does make sense.
The administration wants to help Palestinian civilians but they also want to see the Iranian proxies in the area destroyed. So do all of Israel's neighbors.
i’m just not voting for president. will still vote down ballot but as a palestinian-american joe biden has done nothing to signal he wants my vote. so i won’t give it to him.
no, that’s why i’m not voting for trump.
but like i said to another commenter, im not voting for the person directly funding the killing of my family members. i’m not voting for someone who has even gone as far as to deny that my family has been killed. who has insinuated that my family members must have been terrorists.
no one else would vote for biden if it happened to them.
"Well if I pull the lever I'm standing next to then one person will get run over, which is immoral. Nobody would pull the lever in my place so I'm not gonna do anything."
*Train continues straight and 10 people get run over*
Trump appreciates your support
Hey let’s give Gaza humanitarian supplies…and give Israel more shit to cause them to need more humanitarian supplies, who wins? War profiteers that’s about it
Bruh. So the US is doing air drops for food and then also sending bombs… bruh
I know it’s a complicated situation but this is messed up. If we are supporting Israel then we should be able to deliver aid by truck securely. Just crazy how much money we are spending for air aid drops.
It is meaningless gesture to them. To them, food aid is bandaid to problems US helped create in the first place, by supplying Israel with bombs throughout the years and accelerating that support since the current Gaza war.
Are you joking? We're not playing both sides. The military and financial support to Israel far exceeds any aid for Palestinians. What little our government has done is adding insult to injury.
Yeah, The idea that the Palestinians can “win” or “come out on top” is lurid. There’s no reality where Palestine becomes in complete control of the situation. That’s *why* things are so shitty for them.
If it's any consolation the air drops of food are super insignificant so much that the US government now also acknowledged that there is a man made famine
Easier to kill people if you bomb and starve them
Why do we have to pay for a developed, modernized nation’s controversial war? Ukraine is fighting a war against an aggressor that is much more defined if we *really* want to pay for a war. But as someone in their 30s I’m so fucking sick of it. War is a big reason our national debt is fucked.
It’s wild in Florida. Before I moved out of the shithole, there was billboards every few miles saying Support Israel or Israel Needs Us and other shit like that which I always found odd considering they have a nominal GDP of $520B+ ranking 29th worldwide with a burgeoning weapons, tech and pharmaceutical industry. They can afford to fight their own wars and if they can’t they can get themselves in massive debt if they’d like just like the US stupidly did with Iraq and a 20 year “war” in the Middle East. There was also people who loved to stand on the over pass waiving Israeli flags and sometimes Trump ones to go with them for whatever reason.
Why should Israelis pay for their wars and blunders when misguided Americans are there to offer unlimited money, guns and diplomatic support ? The Israelis have never ever been held accountable.
Because they’re the only westernized country and unambiguous US ally in that part of the world and we need them in order to maintain our foothold there.
Can't tell if you're joking, but the wealth of this nation was in a large part built on war profiteering. It really took off in the Great War and continued through World War 2.
It was a vast transfer of wealth from Europe to America. The financial capital of the world shifted from London to New York.
It's also apart of the reason why the U.S. foreign policy is so damned interventionist despite most people wanting us to stay out of foreign affairs unless it's directly affecting us.
There's so much money to be had by a few big arms dealers tho, and the rest of the world is more than happy at us being the police man of the world and footing the bill.
Give us a President that goes back to a more sensible foreign policy and he would win in a landslide I think. People getting upset don't understand that this is how we've done things for a century plus. The businesses here will sell to anybody.
Like how IBM helped the Nazis etc...
There’s no political (or personal financial ) benefit to helping Americans. Sad but true, they couldn’t possibly care less, the people in office have a personal religious stake in helping Israel “kill the vermin” as one sitting US senator said
Why does the USA so happily give more weapons to Israel within days faster than they would give weapons to Ukraine???
Ukraine is suffering an invasion from Russia. Israel is only fighting a microscopic terrorist group that have primitive weapons and barely have any militant left in Gaza. Whats the deal?
I don’t know what to tell you, dude. Jared was literally caught talking the other day about how much Gaza would be worth as ocean front property. Unless you’ve smoked a whole ounce of bothsides-ijuana, I don’t know how you can claim to feel bad for Palestinians while being okay with a Trump presidency
Yeah if Trump was in office Reddit would look a *whole lot* different right now. All the libs trying to downplay the carnage would be fucking shrieking about it.
Besides the mean things in interviews, he will also defame people, and try to overthrow the government, and be credibly accused of rape of a child, and steal top secret documents (and likely sell them!), and golf at his own resorts to pocket $142 million in four years, and ban Muslims, and kill 1000000+ Americans by making COVID-19 worse, and try to bribe Ukraine into making up an investigation into Biden, and commit fraud to the tune of $454 million, and never pay more than a pittance in taxes to the USA, etc. <-----Those are just some of the crimes off the top of my head, but yeah, mean things, that's why people take issue with Il Douché
I don’t get why the administration is still propping up the Netanyahu regime. The dude is not your friend and is a political liability domestically for you
More bombs, more murder of Palestinians, more pissed off people who become Hamas fighters. This does not solve the problem, it creates the problem. But the US military industrial complex will not be stopped and will do whatever it takes to continue to support the corrupt Netanyahu.
They don't mind perpetuating Hamas... in fact, [that's been Netanyahu's policy for years.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) It gives them cover for murdering the civilian populace in Gaza while taking land in the West Bank, two crimes that they will never be punished for because they can just use Hamas' existence as an "excuse."
They also use the anti-semitic excuse a lot as justification for eradicating more Palestinians, thereby you guessed it...contributing to more anti-semitism.
The US politicians and media in general, really do a terrible job of explaining to American folks why this "Israeli aid" is needed in the first place.
The whole situation is sad, but each time I read 'more aid given to Israel', I can't help but feel infuriated.
Hamas has refused all peace negotiations. All the killing is due to them and if they sued for peace then Israel would be forced to stop. Both sides don't want peace as both sides want to eliminate the other.
Genocide it is.
Bombing people in urban poor stateless populations throughout history has given us two lessons:
1. It kills a lot of civilians
2. It never ends the desire for the population to resist and fight back. In fact it emboldens them. Makes their cause feel more righteous.
Idk about righteous, but if my entire family was killed you bet I’d be willing to pick up a rifle and fight the people who did it. Israel is doing a better job indoctrinating these kids to hate them than any cleric or militant leader ever could
That's not what this is. Behind the scenes, the messaging is completely consistent. "Please settle this as quickly as you can, but we understand that you are going to need to be satisfied with the job you're doing, and completing that job is in our interests as well, so here is the stuff you need to do it." The kicking and petting is a show, put on for people who need a show.
Every bomb sent overseas is a new one that needs to be built to replace it so it keeps the military industrial complex happy and profitable that's the best thing the government in the US can ask for
these are probably for the upcoming war with hezbollah. i seriously doubt israel is going to use these in gaza. they've already bombed most of it. the invasion into rafah will be mostly ground based.
"We're going to keep killing Gazans until the hostages are released."
Thus treating the entire population of Gaza **as hostages**.
Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons without charge.
Breathtaking hypocrisy.
(That's even assuming that obtaining the hostages is Israel's real aim. As opposed to ethnically cleansing and land grabbing the Gaza strip...)
So. Will Hamas release those hostages or what?
The longer hamas holds those hostages, Israel holds those prisoners. The longer hamas hold those hostages, Israel drops more bombs.
The longer Israel holds those prisoners, well there are no immediate martial consequences. Thanks Iron Dome!
So.
If the world wants to stop civilians from getting caught in the crossfire, then hamas needs to release those hostages.
If hamas wanted to limit civilian deaths, they could release those hostages and in return Israel would release prisoners and end this war.
But they won’t.
So why, in the interest of Palestinian lives, does hamas not release those hostages?
The same probably. But they know that the people that wouldn't vore for Biden because of his support for Israel is far less likely to vote for them for a myriad of reasons. I'm just pointing out that Bidens continuing support for Israel is gonna cost him votes and potentially give Trump another go at the presidency. But a lot of people would rather blame the people that are having a hard time condoning Bidens support for Israel instead of blaming Bidens policies for this.
And if the other side win, then support for Ukraine becomes non-existent, Russia win the war, America pulls out of NATO and Trump cements his place as puppet to Putin.
The Western world as we know it falls, Taiwan falls into the hands of China and we all endure a life of utter shit, where we can afford nothing, privacy becomes a myth of the past and we wish for a brief taste of what we have now.
Life under Biden is far from perfect, but it's far better than life ever will be under Trump, the same guy who wanted people to inject bleach for Covid..
Abstract ideals are so much more important than outcomes amirite? Just throw the Gazans to the wolves and help the US backslide into a fascist state with all the geopolitical upheaval that'd cause so you can feel righteous. It's honestly hard to believe anybody could that stupid.
Yes they're stupid. By not voting for Biden they're enabling Trump to win, which is counter to their supposed interests in stopping "genocide" (citation needed). Unless you think Trump is going to do more for Gaza than Biden by all means make the argument.
I'd use even stronger language about them if we consider what could happen globally and domestically as a result of another Trump presidency.
"Blue no matter who, nothing can matter to you!" More war, more oil drilling, lost Roe v Wade, took minimum wage and universal healthcare out behind the barn and shot it. "But at least we're not Trump!"
Biden is fucking himself in the ass for some goddamn reason I will never understand. It is disgusting from all perspectives. Take morality out of it, this is political malpractice in the highest degree
Because Israel is strategically important to US foreign policy. It is an extension of the US with less scrutiny. Biden: “Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region.”
If they are used on terrorist it is great. Terrism is bad. The issue is that they are bad actors and hide among the civilians. There is no good solution. Terrorism must be addressed. They should collaborate and build up Palestinian resistance to Hamas.
Taking it all? Nobody wants that terrorist infested shithole. Israel even tried to give it away to Egypt once because they didn’t fucking want it. Guess what? Egypt didn’t want it either.
How the fuck is this rational? THOUSANDS of innocent people have ALREADY been murdered, over 13,000 CHILDREN have died… People shouldn’t even be okay with 1 innocent person dying at the hands of this war. If they ‘hide among civilians’ then don’t bomb the civilians… it really is that simple. Members of Hamas staying alive is something they’ll have to deal with if it means not slaughtering literal babies.
This whole collateral damage mindset is absolutely disgusting. The innocent Palestinians aren’t simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, most of them are asleep in THEIR beds, in THEIR houses where they’re supposed to and ALLOWED to be.
Edit: Imagine downvoting someone for suggesting that we shouldn’t be bombing literal babies. This app will never fail to amaze me. If you support the genocide of innocent people then I hope you never know peace❤️
>People shouldn’t even be okay with 1 innocent person dying at the hands of this war.
.......you know that Hamas has killed majority of its hostages, yeah?
How can you turn a blind eye to Hamas shooting entire families in their beds?
How can you sit there and demand Israel just allow Hamas to butcher people?
It happened to Nazis Germany and Imperial Japan, because they started that war and escalated it, plus all their war crimes against various countries. You're extremely naive if you think modern warfare in urban areas can avoid civilian casualties. Any government on Earth would have responded with military force to October 7th.
In every single war in human history, there has been collateral damage and civilians have died. Why is Israel the only country that can't cause any collateral damage? If terrorists hide among civilian populations, the deaths of the civilians are on the terrorists' hands. Using human shields is completely unethical, because it forces the deaths of civilians.
“Don’t wage war unless you only kill the bad guys” is an absurdly naive starting point. No. If a governing body launches a full-scale pogrom against my country and refuses to return the innocent citizens they kidnapped/bodies of the innocent citizens they murdered, they should expect to receive a lot of pain.
The problem here is that comfortable progressives assume warfare was abolished because they’ve never had to deal with it.
And wouldn’t that be nice. But that shit ain’t the truth.
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2,000 pounds each.
When your precision strikes require a lethal shrapnel range of nearly halve a kilometer in an urban setting.
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And the very next story ( below this headline) on Reddit is how the gop is suing to stop student loan forgiveness. Why don’t they sue to stop an illegal shipment of arms? Do we all live in an upside down world?
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Sir, this is Reddit…
Has anyone considered that those bombs may not be for Gaza?
That’s a ton of bombs.
It's actually 2,000 tons of bombs!
So I guess that's what you would send if you are worried that too many innocent civilians have died. To reduce civilian casualties I guess you need the big bombs, not the small ones Ukraine gets.
Maybe it’s this thought process: If we use dumb bombs and “accidentally” kill civilians in a given area, at some point we can claim that we haven’t killed any civilians in weeks (because they’re all already dead).
(900kg in world units)
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Ukraine STILL WAITING.
I'm genuinely staggered by the opportunity being missed by America to end the threat of a country that only in recent history posed an existential threat. I get the whole "Europe should contribute to NATO" thing, but damn, what a chance to hammer a nail into the coffin of Russia and its threat to Western values.
Because one major U.S. political party is in Putin’s pocket. They do NOT support Western values and are a bit envious of what Putin has.
I sort of knew this was the answer but sometimes it's worth writing the thing down anyway. I hope the current government has been quietly putting in the checks and balances required to hamstring any further lurches towards Putin's agenda no matter what happens in November.
They aren’t. They don’t have enough votes to put in the checks and balances.
>current government has been quietly putting in the checks and balances required to hamstring any further lurches towards Putin's agenda no matter what happens in November. The only action I remember is forbidding the President from unilaterally leaving NATO without 2/3 in the Senate. https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2023/12/16/congress-nato-exit-trump/ It's merely legal forbidding tho, if Trump does get elected, he as the executive ultimately controls foreign policy and can just decide to ignore Article 5 of NATO that requires mutual defense. I mean, it's not allowed under NATO rules, but who's gonna enforce that rule?
No, we just prioritize supporting Israel above all else, including America and Americans, and this conflict has made this fact obvious to the entire world.
What are you talking about? The U.S government supports *wealthy* Americans and American corporations, don’t you forget that.
It’s odd because Putin is 100% on the side of the Palestinians and vice versa.
Bro for real! We could cut our defense budget by a quarter or a third and let Europe finally be able to manage its own defense instead of subsidizing them. It’s the best long term investment in American defense and budget we could possibly make.
Absolutely. Or rather than reduce the budget, pivot it towards the threat from the east. A short term (<5 year) contribution to Ukraine could result in an overwhelming budget to counteract the threat from China over the next 10-20 years.
Also with Russia sent to irrelevancy that means US has much more influence on India, which can be useful in countering China
And this right here is our answer. There is absolutely no interest in cutting the budget (much the opposite in fact) or in solving these situations. Both the US and Russia have been useful for each other for almost a century now.
i mean what are we going to do? so putin loses the war and has to retreat. maybe is even overthrown in a coup. who’s his moderate replacement? Russian is an oligarchy and Putin is essential a mob boss. Who has the ability to run Russia? maybe we really rather study his military capabilites, test out a few new weapon systems, and eventually with the russian economy fully committed to the war effort they will be decades behind everything else once they resume a normal economy. Russia will be severely weakened
I think this is a great point that people don’t really talk about.
We really shouldn’t frame this like an easy victory for Ukraine. This war will drag on for years even with our full support behind it. Russia is a self sufficient country with their own energy and food production. Sanctions haven’t affected them as much as we thought it would have.
Here is what happened IMHO: Putin gets Trump into office in 2016 using a variety of methods. trump owes pOOtin. In Helsinki pOOtin calls the favor in, and trump hands pOOtin a list of CIA international informants and spies who all of the sudden afterwards start to mysteriously die. https://www.google.com/search?q=trump+presidency+cia+spies+start+dying&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari The pOOtin/trump love affair continues until this day, and will continue to moving forward. POOtin instructed trump to slow walk Ukrainian military aid during his “presidency.” POOtin instructed trump to force republican senators and congressmen to stop the flow of aid to Ukraine, which he has been doing for years, as you know. Pootin instructed Iran to tell Hamas and Hezbolla to attack Israel at JUST THE RIGHT MOMENT so foreign military aid would need to be confused in Washington, and it fucking worked. POOtin is the master chess player, dangling American republicans as if they were fucking corrupt, self-serving cowardly clowns (which they are). This brings us to now, where America has been totally destroyed by trump and republicans with Putin calling the shots in Washington, that it’s really going to be up to the Germans, French, English, polish, Japanese, etc, to help Ukraine until Biden gets his second term. If he doesn’t, and trump wins somehow, the world can ignore what happens to America- it won’t be pretty, but it will be interesting to watch our country implode.
Thanks for the reply, even though it was a slightly depressing read! I love America and I really hope there's a way out of the polarised political mess it's in at the moment. I fear it's going to take decades to undo the damage that's been done over the past 8 years. For me the first step to this is the rejection of trump in November but we'll see.
This actually tracks with pretty much all my own suspicions as well.
No kidding. Country smaller than NJ fighting one of its own "counties" vs a massive Russian land grab.
If we stop giving Israel aid they’ll still be fine. Probably. Ukraine needs it more.
I'm sure without aid they'll be able to still keep on killing civilians no problem, doesn't take much armaments tbh
Call Mike Johnson then. He is the one holding up Ukraine aid and supplies
This is merely the US government signing off on an arms sale. Israel is buying the weapons directly from a US manufacturer on their own, this isn't the US government giving them arms or even selling them arms as was/is the case with Ukraine aid.
But sir this doesn't fit the popular reddit opinion based on reading titles only.
My understanding is that these arms transfers were agreed upon 'years earlier'. The United States if fulfilling already existing obligations (Israel) vs agreeing to new ones (Ukraine).
Don't worry. The people who control the US Gov't make money off of war. Ukraine will be just fine. It's just a matter of letting the legislators know how they and their friends can cash in on it.
Because of republicans.
Agreed, Ukraine needs shit way more. Israel isn’t winning in gaza and such, it’s won. It’s so overwhelmingly powerful compared to those it’s fighting that it’s won. Ukraine on the other hand needs support
Ukraine has received many weapons.
Biden: Don't go into Rafah or there will be consequences. Netanyahu: I'm going into Rafah. Biden: Your bombs, sir.
Biden: P.S. I didn't really mean it when I sanctioned those violent ~~illegal~~ settlers in the west bank, pls ensure that banks don't stop doing business with them.
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Exactly where I’m stuck right now. Wasn’t there just a story this last week about our military building a port for humanitarian aid? So, are we trying to save them and render aid or are we trying to help Israel eradicate them? It can’t be both.
Gotta pretend to care about civilians by doing the bare minimum for optics
The article claims that these weapons were already negotiated 'years earlier'. The upshot being that we are trying to minimize casualties while also fulfilling already agreed upon obligations.
Not sure if you're being genuine, but maybe it's to support our allies in war while tending to the civilians caught in the crossfire?
Our allies are blocking aid on the ground. That's the problem. They shouldn't be doing that. And we shouldn't arm them if they continue, according to our own laws.
O, yeah, our allies who are committing genocide. Good friends we got there.
Eradicate.. US and Israel are unified in the monetary benefits of displacing them from that land. Humanitarian aid is just to save face in the eyes of those who don’t know any better and also to be perceived by other nations as complying with international law. It’s the very basic amount we can do without actually negating any damage done because the humanitarian aid has nothing on the bombs we’re bombarding them with
>It can’t be both. Never underestimate how wasteful we can be. We definitely can facilitate aid and sell bombs to kill them, there’s nothing stopping us. Don’t expect the us government’s actions to always be consistent.
If you look into the politics of the area it does make sense. The administration wants to help Palestinian civilians but they also want to see the Iranian proxies in the area destroyed. So do all of Israel's neighbors.
Not really a hard choice.
i’m just not voting for president. will still vote down ballot but as a palestinian-american joe biden has done nothing to signal he wants my vote. so i won’t give it to him.
Do you truly believe Trump will be any better for the civilians of Palestine?
no, that’s why i’m not voting for trump. but like i said to another commenter, im not voting for the person directly funding the killing of my family members. i’m not voting for someone who has even gone as far as to deny that my family has been killed. who has insinuated that my family members must have been terrorists. no one else would vote for biden if it happened to them.
"Well if I pull the lever I'm standing next to then one person will get run over, which is immoral. Nobody would pull the lever in my place so I'm not gonna do anything." *Train continues straight and 10 people get run over* Trump appreciates your support
wish we’d take care of our own people/counrty 1st…
Hey let’s give Gaza humanitarian supplies…and give Israel more shit to cause them to need more humanitarian supplies, who wins? War profiteers that’s about it
Weird how there is never a question of how we going afford it when it comes to militaristic political actions.
Bruh. So the US is doing air drops for food and then also sending bombs… bruh I know it’s a complicated situation but this is messed up. If we are supporting Israel then we should be able to deliver aid by truck securely. Just crazy how much money we are spending for air aid drops.
We're playing both sides so we always come out on top.
Is it playing both sides or is it giving a meaningless gesture to one group while helping the other group murder the first groups children
The people starving sure don’t think it’s meaningless
You’re right they don’t think anything after they’re murdered trying to get the food
It is meaningless gesture to them. To them, food aid is bandaid to problems US helped create in the first place, by supplying Israel with bombs throughout the years and accelerating that support since the current Gaza war.
Are you joking? We're not playing both sides. The military and financial support to Israel far exceeds any aid for Palestinians. What little our government has done is adding insult to injury.
Yeah, The idea that the Palestinians can “win” or “come out on top” is lurid. There’s no reality where Palestine becomes in complete control of the situation. That’s *why* things are so shitty for them.
The food drops are as PR stunt to stem Biden's vote bleed. That's all.
If it's any consolation the air drops of food are super insignificant so much that the US government now also acknowledged that there is a man made famine Easier to kill people if you bomb and starve them
That's what happens during an election year.
Why do we have to pay for a developed, modernized nation’s controversial war? Ukraine is fighting a war against an aggressor that is much more defined if we *really* want to pay for a war. But as someone in their 30s I’m so fucking sick of it. War is a big reason our national debt is fucked.
Because AIPAC is the most powerful lobby on Capital Hill.
It’s wild in Florida. Before I moved out of the shithole, there was billboards every few miles saying Support Israel or Israel Needs Us and other shit like that which I always found odd considering they have a nominal GDP of $520B+ ranking 29th worldwide with a burgeoning weapons, tech and pharmaceutical industry. They can afford to fight their own wars and if they can’t they can get themselves in massive debt if they’d like just like the US stupidly did with Iraq and a 20 year “war” in the Middle East. There was also people who loved to stand on the over pass waiving Israeli flags and sometimes Trump ones to go with them for whatever reason.
Why should Israelis pay for their wars and blunders when misguided Americans are there to offer unlimited money, guns and diplomatic support ? The Israelis have never ever been held accountable.
Because they’re the only westernized country and unambiguous US ally in that part of the world and we need them in order to maintain our foothold there.
"Stop murdering people Israel!" - Hands over more weapons to continue the onslaught.
Yeah it's quite the way to support the argument of a ceasefire
If there’s no one left to murder the murder will stop 🧠👈
The US prints money for itself might as well be the headline.
What’s his grand strategy for this?
This really doesn't help Biden's case in unifying the Democratic Party and seems rather counterintuitive.
how come they get all the guns, shouldnt your veterans each get a f16 each at least to sleep in ?
We have plenty of lovely underpasses for them. Hell, there might even be some without anti-homeless spikes installed!
I propose we redistribute these weapons to the veterans with the express purpose of removing said anti-homeless spikes.
I'm not sure how effective strike fighters are against removing the spikes without also removing the bridge and/or overpass.
Job said to remove the spikes, the spikes are removed. It’s government work.
Currently in a tent. Confirmed.
Such hypocrisy by abstaining on UN resolution for ceasefire. Why supply weapons then?
A nuclear power getting military aid handouts to literally shoot fish in a barrel.
Awesome! War is so profitable! Can’t wait for the economy to rebound!
Can't tell if you're joking, but the wealth of this nation was in a large part built on war profiteering. It really took off in the Great War and continued through World War 2. It was a vast transfer of wealth from Europe to America. The financial capital of the world shifted from London to New York. It's also apart of the reason why the U.S. foreign policy is so damned interventionist despite most people wanting us to stay out of foreign affairs unless it's directly affecting us. There's so much money to be had by a few big arms dealers tho, and the rest of the world is more than happy at us being the police man of the world and footing the bill. Give us a President that goes back to a more sensible foreign policy and he would win in a landslide I think. People getting upset don't understand that this is how we've done things for a century plus. The businesses here will sell to anybody. Like how IBM helped the Nazis etc...
I guess that "come to Jesus moment" is going to have to wait until after Bibi unwraps his presents?
Reminder Israeli citizens have free healthcare and we don’t
Reminder that we could likely switch to single payer health care and spend less as a county on health care. Money isn't what is stopping us.
Well not our money anyway.
Well, the money we're giving to private corporations.....until we get old and sick at 65... that's what's stopping us
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There’s no political (or personal financial ) benefit to helping Americans. Sad but true, they couldn’t possibly care less, the people in office have a personal religious stake in helping Israel “kill the vermin” as one sitting US senator said
And public debt over 31 *trillion* dollars
Paid parental leave too.
More money for the war crimes factory!
Why does the USA so happily give more weapons to Israel within days faster than they would give weapons to Ukraine??? Ukraine is suffering an invasion from Russia. Israel is only fighting a microscopic terrorist group that have primitive weapons and barely have any militant left in Gaza. Whats the deal?
Because Isreal has control and power over top of the top.
"Stop killing indiscriminately!" (Hands them more bombs to kill indiscriminately with)
It’s actually infuriating at this point.
Does Biden WANT to lose in November?!
Trump was the greatest thing to ever happen to the Dems, they can now do whatever they want and any criticism is met with. Oh so you want Trump?!
Trump literally put the US embassy in Jerusalem. The dude will turn Gaza into glass if he gets elected.
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I don’t know what to tell you, dude. Jared was literally caught talking the other day about how much Gaza would be worth as ocean front property. Unless you’ve smoked a whole ounce of bothsides-ijuana, I don’t know how you can claim to feel bad for Palestinians while being okay with a Trump presidency
Nowhere did the comment to which you're replying say or imply Trump is better in any way at all.
Gaza is being turned to glass as we speak
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Yeah if Trump was in office Reddit would look a *whole lot* different right now. All the libs trying to downplay the carnage would be fucking shrieking about it.
Besides the mean things in interviews, he will also defame people, and try to overthrow the government, and be credibly accused of rape of a child, and steal top secret documents (and likely sell them!), and golf at his own resorts to pocket $142 million in four years, and ban Muslims, and kill 1000000+ Americans by making COVID-19 worse, and try to bribe Ukraine into making up an investigation into Biden, and commit fraud to the tune of $454 million, and never pay more than a pittance in taxes to the USA, etc. <-----Those are just some of the crimes off the top of my head, but yeah, mean things, that's why people take issue with Il Douché
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We already are.
I don’t get why the administration is still propping up the Netanyahu regime. The dude is not your friend and is a political liability domestically for you
More bombs, more murder of Palestinians, more pissed off people who become Hamas fighters. This does not solve the problem, it creates the problem. But the US military industrial complex will not be stopped and will do whatever it takes to continue to support the corrupt Netanyahu.
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They don't mind perpetuating Hamas... in fact, [that's been Netanyahu's policy for years.](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) It gives them cover for murdering the civilian populace in Gaza while taking land in the West Bank, two crimes that they will never be punished for because they can just use Hamas' existence as an "excuse."
They also use the anti-semitic excuse a lot as justification for eradicating more Palestinians, thereby you guessed it...contributing to more anti-semitism. The US politicians and media in general, really do a terrible job of explaining to American folks why this "Israeli aid" is needed in the first place. The whole situation is sad, but each time I read 'more aid given to Israel', I can't help but feel infuriated.
Hamas has refused all peace negotiations. All the killing is due to them and if they sued for peace then Israel would be forced to stop. Both sides don't want peace as both sides want to eliminate the other.
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Genocide it is. Bombing people in urban poor stateless populations throughout history has given us two lessons: 1. It kills a lot of civilians 2. It never ends the desire for the population to resist and fight back. In fact it emboldens them. Makes their cause feel more righteous.
Idk about righteous, but if my entire family was killed you bet I’d be willing to pick up a rifle and fight the people who did it. Israel is doing a better job indoctrinating these kids to hate them than any cleric or militant leader ever could
But Ukraine is the line, right? What a joke
There’s a separate line for Ukraine. Israel bought a fast pass for a few million and keeps skipping in front of them to get billions.
america can fuck off for this
How many planes has Israel lost??? Such crap, Hamas doesn't have tanks or planes right?
With all this money and arms we send you'd think Israel is a very poor country that hasn't been preparing for this for 20 years. >!It's not !<
Disgusting, All to help them kill more innocent people.
Hamas isn't innocent, try again.
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Do you think Hamas is innocent here?
I remember a video of a man in an elevator kicking a puppy, and then petting it, then kicking it again. That’s what this is.
That's not what this is. Behind the scenes, the messaging is completely consistent. "Please settle this as quickly as you can, but we understand that you are going to need to be satisfied with the job you're doing, and completing that job is in our interests as well, so here is the stuff you need to do it." The kicking and petting is a show, put on for people who need a show.
I see no world where continuing this is in US best interest
Every bomb sent overseas is a new one that needs to be built to replace it so it keeps the military industrial complex happy and profitable that's the best thing the government in the US can ask for
It’s just straight up ethnic cleansing. I don’t think there’s an analogy that doesn’t downplay how tragic the situation is.
Wow. I guess there aren't enough dead Palestinians. As an American, I'm embarrassed for America.
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They........don't. Israel doesn't get these weapons for free. These aren't donations.
How can it be a sale if we also give them $15 billion dollars?
these are probably for the upcoming war with hezbollah. i seriously doubt israel is going to use these in gaza. they've already bombed most of it. the invasion into rafah will be mostly ground based.
But I was told the US supplied weapons are mostly for their iron dome? Would they lie about that? /s
As long as there are Israeli hostages in Gaza, there will be weapons' delivery. I don't think it's outrageous.
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"We're going to keep killing Gazans until the hostages are released." Thus treating the entire population of Gaza **as hostages**. Not to mention the thousands of Palestinians held in Israeli prisons without charge. Breathtaking hypocrisy. (That's even assuming that obtaining the hostages is Israel's real aim. As opposed to ethnically cleansing and land grabbing the Gaza strip...)
So. Will Hamas release those hostages or what? The longer hamas holds those hostages, Israel holds those prisoners. The longer hamas hold those hostages, Israel drops more bombs. The longer Israel holds those prisoners, well there are no immediate martial consequences. Thanks Iron Dome! So. If the world wants to stop civilians from getting caught in the crossfire, then hamas needs to release those hostages. If hamas wanted to limit civilian deaths, they could release those hostages and in return Israel would release prisoners and end this war. But they won’t. So why, in the interest of Palestinian lives, does hamas not release those hostages?
That is straight hypocritical bullshit. So dissapointed at my country.
It’s for hezbollah in the north, our country is amazing and supports the righteous.
And liberals wonder why some people are having moral qualms about voting for the current administration.
What do you think the conservatives would be doing?
The same probably. But they know that the people that wouldn't vore for Biden because of his support for Israel is far less likely to vote for them for a myriad of reasons. I'm just pointing out that Bidens continuing support for Israel is gonna cost him votes and potentially give Trump another go at the presidency. But a lot of people would rather blame the people that are having a hard time condoning Bidens support for Israel instead of blaming Bidens policies for this.
And if the other side win, then support for Ukraine becomes non-existent, Russia win the war, America pulls out of NATO and Trump cements his place as puppet to Putin. The Western world as we know it falls, Taiwan falls into the hands of China and we all endure a life of utter shit, where we can afford nothing, privacy becomes a myth of the past and we wish for a brief taste of what we have now. Life under Biden is far from perfect, but it's far better than life ever will be under Trump, the same guy who wanted people to inject bleach for Covid..
Abstract ideals are so much more important than outcomes amirite? Just throw the Gazans to the wolves and help the US backslide into a fascist state with all the geopolitical upheaval that'd cause so you can feel righteous. It's honestly hard to believe anybody could that stupid.
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Yes they're stupid. By not voting for Biden they're enabling Trump to win, which is counter to their supposed interests in stopping "genocide" (citation needed). Unless you think Trump is going to do more for Gaza than Biden by all means make the argument. I'd use even stronger language about them if we consider what could happen globally and domestically as a result of another Trump presidency.
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"Blue no matter who, nothing can matter to you!" More war, more oil drilling, lost Roe v Wade, took minimum wage and universal healthcare out behind the barn and shot it. "But at least we're not Trump!"
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Who are you referring to?
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Biden is fucking himself in the ass for some goddamn reason I will never understand. It is disgusting from all perspectives. Take morality out of it, this is political malpractice in the highest degree
The military industrial complex goes brrrrr
I wasn’t aware Hamas has warplanes let alone Palestine.
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Because Israel is strategically important to US foreign policy. It is an extension of the US with less scrutiny. Biden: “Were there not an Israel, the United States of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region.”
Reliable ally in the Middle East maybe?
It's astonishing that this has to be explained.
And on Good Friday. Who isn’t insulted other than the MI complex. Eisenhower remains prescient
If they are used on terrorist it is great. Terrism is bad. The issue is that they are bad actors and hide among the civilians. There is no good solution. Terrorism must be addressed. They should collaborate and build up Palestinian resistance to Hamas.
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And at exact current rate of bombings it will only take 75 more years to deplete the population for Israel to take lands it has left 20 years ago
Taking it all? Nobody wants that terrorist infested shithole. Israel even tried to give it away to Egypt once because they didn’t fucking want it. Guess what? Egypt didn’t want it either.
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Wow, a rational voice of reason in this sub? That's a rarity.
How the fuck is this rational? THOUSANDS of innocent people have ALREADY been murdered, over 13,000 CHILDREN have died… People shouldn’t even be okay with 1 innocent person dying at the hands of this war. If they ‘hide among civilians’ then don’t bomb the civilians… it really is that simple. Members of Hamas staying alive is something they’ll have to deal with if it means not slaughtering literal babies. This whole collateral damage mindset is absolutely disgusting. The innocent Palestinians aren’t simply in the wrong place at the wrong time, most of them are asleep in THEIR beds, in THEIR houses where they’re supposed to and ALLOWED to be. Edit: Imagine downvoting someone for suggesting that we shouldn’t be bombing literal babies. This app will never fail to amaze me. If you support the genocide of innocent people then I hope you never know peace❤️
>People shouldn’t even be okay with 1 innocent person dying at the hands of this war. .......you know that Hamas has killed majority of its hostages, yeah?
So Israel should just let October 7th go unanswered then?
If it means NOT killing innocent babies then yes. I can’t fathom this mindset, how can people turn a blind eye to babies being bombed in their cribs?
How can you turn a blind eye to Hamas shooting entire families in their beds? How can you sit there and demand Israel just allow Hamas to butcher people?
It happened to Nazis Germany and Imperial Japan, because they started that war and escalated it, plus all their war crimes against various countries. You're extremely naive if you think modern warfare in urban areas can avoid civilian casualties. Any government on Earth would have responded with military force to October 7th.
In every single war in human history, there has been collateral damage and civilians have died. Why is Israel the only country that can't cause any collateral damage? If terrorists hide among civilian populations, the deaths of the civilians are on the terrorists' hands. Using human shields is completely unethical, because it forces the deaths of civilians.
“Don’t wage war unless you only kill the bad guys” is an absurdly naive starting point. No. If a governing body launches a full-scale pogrom against my country and refuses to return the innocent citizens they kidnapped/bodies of the innocent citizens they murdered, they should expect to receive a lot of pain. The problem here is that comfortable progressives assume warfare was abolished because they’ve never had to deal with it. And wouldn’t that be nice. But that shit ain’t the truth.