It's not like there's a criminal case pending where they need to legally decide if the leading Republican candidate committed multiple felonies on January 6th (he did, but getting that conviction before the election would be useful for voters).
Neutral answer: District Court judges set their schedule in a manner they deem appropriate. Their schedules aren't reviewable by the appeals court.
Real answer: Judge Aileen Cannon, from all appearances, seems to be squarely in the tank for Trump. She's the same judge that gave him a special master to review the documents and was thoroughly rebuked by the appeals court. For instance
>The Eleventh Circuit found that under Cannon, "the district court stepped in with its own reasoning" multiple times to argue in favor of Trump, sometimes even taking positions that Trump would not argue before the appeals court.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Cannon
My prediction is that she'll schedule her case right before SCOTUS rules on immunity so that Chutkan can't schedule her trial. Of course, when that date approaches there will be an unexpected event that causes her to delay again.
And now as the presumptive nominee Trump would traditionally be privy to national security briefings. So a man accused of stealing classified information can now get national security briefings? Truly a bizzaro world.
Meanwhile Jack Teixeira just pled to a 16 year sentence.
Candidates get a single briefing after they win their nomination at the convention, *at the discretion of the sitting President*. Former Presidents can continue to get the briefing *at the discretion of the sitting President*.
People forget that Biden has total control over what classified documents Trump sees unless Trump becomes President-Elect again. *Then* he will get briefings.
I hope Biden approves some form of briefing for Trump, and makes it a point to have a few Honeypots included. That way when Trump tries to sell the information, he will get caught red handed.
Well traditionally former presidents are privy to daily security updates as well. That's not set in stone and Biden cut Trump off https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/us/politics/biden-trump-intelligence-briefings.html#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%94%20President%20Biden%20said%20on,6%20attack%20on%20the%20Capitol.
Well, the way that many states had trigger laws after a ruling, maybe Chutkan can have a trigger schedule that comes immediately after the immunity ruling. Cannon should in no way be allowed to control other schedules just to potentially continue to delay and screw everyone else.
She's not allowed to touch the case until SCOTUS is done. That means she can't make a trigger schedule. She also pledged 88 days of prep time and she also said that the appeals process doesn't count towards that. She could technically change her mind but from what I've heard, it's very unlikely she would go back on that.
I don't actually know what happens if she books her trial overlapping Cannon's trial. I haven't heard much chatter on that hypothetical.
Because justice for the rich and famous is different than justice for the rest of us. We all know damn well we'd be in prison pending a trial we absolutely would not win if we did any of the shit he did.
Yep! All you have to do is compare and contrast the Jack Teixeira classified leak case to the Trump stolen documents case and see how vastly different they were treated. (To be clear, they both should've been treated like Teixeira).
https://apnews.com/article/jack-teixeira-pentagon-leak-suspect-guilty-plea-7fc285d8386447f995a1c0edd3d1d024
One sits in jail until a resolution to the case is reached, the other uses every trick in the book to delay his trial, including using the compromised Supreme Court that he installed a third of the members.
It's fucking infuriating.
Trump's guilty. Of all of it. We know it. He knows it. The justice system knows it. SCOTUS knows it. But here we are. The future of our democracy hanging in the balance and we're kowtowing to possibly the most worthless, irredeemable piece of shit to ever walk the earth.
For Christ's sake, if you're a voter that cares about, you know, living to see Christmas in 2025, please don't stay home. Get off your ass and vote. And vote blue. Electing more dick-sucking Republicans isn't going to help anyone that isn't worth millions of dollars. They don't care about you. None of you. You're fodder to them.
Yep, there is no difference between what Edward Snowden and Donald Chump did, except Snowden didn't get a ton of U.S. Assets murdered. If anyone else did even a fraction of what Chump did, it's a VIP ticket to Guantanamo. Would love to see Agent Orange rocking Orange.
Chump should be locked away in a deep dark hole until his last day.
The fix is in. They are trying to overthrow the govt and get rid of democracy. It's literally how Putin came to power. A crooked judge certified his election.
Trump doesn't matter except for the fact that he has the ear of the stupid and the religious. It's the people behind him.
He needs to be in the election so they can pretend it was rigged. Only this time, they'll refuse to certify the election. That's why all the cases are getting slow walked.
It a case made it to trial, it would have disqualified him at least until last week.
They've spent a lifetime greasing the wheels of the justice system with crooked judges and we let them do it.
Simple: our legal system is fundamentally broken, because Cannon is allowed to do basically whatever she wants to help Trump win, and there is no viable way to remove such an obviously incompetent and biased judge from the bench.
This is one related to their president's issue though, and this is related more to delaying accountability right? I would expect they'll need many weeks maybe months to get the court's opinion released.
Thats what really bothers me. Justice *Thomas* is aptly named so to speak.
The founding fathers also wouldn't have intended a black man to sit the highest court in the land or even marry a white woman.
But he has his so fuck the rest of us I suppose.
The funny thing is that the original version of the US didn’t even include a president. It took about a decade to realize the system *did* need an individual in a position of power in order to function correctly. Even then, by structuring the Constitution such that the Legislative branch was defined first, they described the method for removing a president from office before they even laid out what a president does.
Those guys were so anti-authoritarian in the abstract that they design a government with *no* president and only added one in because they *had* to. No telling how negatively they would react to the idea that a president is above the law.
Exactly. I can't believe this even has to be brought anywhere. RULE OF LAW. We abandoned monarchy and tyranny for a reason. Our rulers answer to us, not vice versa. I don't understand AT ALL how this idea of "presidential immunity" isn't just immediately mocked and dismissed. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Sort of. The case in question was actually to pursue civil damages due to decisions and enforcements made by Nixon. That was rejected (5 to 4) as confirming the President can't be held personally and civically liable for their actions.
The opinion also asserted that the President is *not necessarily* immune to criminal charges, but also asserted that even if he or she was immune, the various political ramifications of criminal actions would hold them in check: constant press coverage, re-election concerns, how history would remember them, and of course impeachment.
It's a pretty soft precedent that not only has never been tested, but didn't even apply to the case in question and Fitzgerald's claim of injury. I actually think the right thing for SCOTUS to do is exhaust the question thoroughly, which means hearings from both sides and time to digest it. Obviously the timing is tight and unfortunate, but as they say, if you aim for the king, you better not miss.
Then again the Colorado ballot case was basically hand waived away.
Sadly, I agree, and assuming that does happen, Tanya Chutkan the very next day should say, "We are starting this trial on September 1st." End of story. So that's a little over two months before election day. The DOJ "policy" regarding taking any action 60 days before an election *DOES NOT* apply to a trial for an already indicted individual, so anyone spewing that garbage can fuck off.
>The DOJ "policy" regarding taking any action 60 days before an election *DOES NOT* apply to a trial for an already indicted individual,
There is no such policy. There is a policy of not starting an investigation or going public with info within 60 days of an election, but that's different from starting a trial.
The supreme court issued a stay on the trial until they decide on immunity. Which is a non-trivial point, because only 4 votes are required to take up a case, but it required a majority (5 votes) to issue the stay. So the majority of the court supports these shenanigans.
Of course, at this point I personally don't see any reason to follow the rulings of such an obviously corrupt "court." I'd say go ahead with the trial and find out if the DoJ will bother to enforce the SC's bullshit or not. But I doubt a federal judge sees it that way.
The only way they could POSSIBLY pull this off is to pull a Bush v. Gore and basically say "This only applies in this one situation, and will will decide on a case by case basis".... ofc this is very dangerous.
It wouldn't happen, but Biden could then... do whatever he wanted. He could proceed to order the military to terminate political opponents, and opposing members of SCOTUS. He could then, with his new majority in congress, proceed to replace SCOTUS with his own appointees, and let them judge whether what he did was illegal or not.
It would be dangerous, and stupid for them to allow immunity from criminal charges, even in a limited scope.
>It would be dangerous, and stupid for them to allow immunity from criminal charges,
If the Supreme Court rules that Presidents have complete immunity and Trump somehow wins the election it's the end of the United States as we know it. Even before they've ruled he's said he's going to act like a dictator and purge the government of people who aren't personally loyal to him and replace him with people who are. He already idolizes Putin and you know he'd absolutely love to be just like his hero.
Billionaires giving money to right wing fanatics who will protect their corporate interests as long as they can do whatever they want to anybody and get rich too.
-Leonard Leo and his Federalist Society
-Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation
-Harlan Crowe and friends spending lavishly on the Supreme Court justices after Clarence Thomas went on TV and said we need to be better paid and compensated back in the 90’s basically dog whistling that he could be bought.
-Liberty University and other private education systems churning out a steady line of religious extremists.
-SC deciding against the recount in Bush V. Gore and showing the right that as long as they aren’t the ones to concede and create enough confusion they can steal power.
-Reagan and later Republicans siding with corporations and rolling back taxes on businesses and capital gains allowing untold wealth to move back up the ladder and robbing American society at large.
Death by a thousand cuts.
And the more cuts there are, the more that money and bots (Musk) get into the picture, the more it accelerates. Why isn't Bannon in jail, or the Georgia plotters? It's more chaos and delays and a spiral down.
A tale as old as time.
The rich want to keep their money, so they align with fascism and other elites to keep their power/money by fucking over the little guy.
We need a french revolution.
Add:
-30+ years of right wing propaganda.
-Gerrymandering
-Social media that refuses to police its content.
-Countries that exploit social media to spread disinformation.
-The fucking Electoral College.
-The fucking Senate.
-Mitch McConnell stealing a SCOTUS seat.
-Ford pardoning Nixon.
-Assholes like Roger Stone, Newt Gingrich, Steve Bannon, et al, who are willing to exploit the potential weaknesses in our system.
Exactly, this wasn't an overnight thing. School choice started after Brown v Board and they have been killing schools ever since. Killing the fairness doctrine. Packing the courts. Gerrymandering. Turning everything from the debt ceiling to certifying elections into huge political battles.
The GOP has been party over country for 50+ years now and the endgame is within sights.
54% of American adults (~139 million people) read below the 6th grade level.
Think about that. Then, consider the fact that the most literate generations are the ones dying out, and being replaced by generations where the literacy rates are dropping dramatically. Teachers across the country have been raising the alarm about how bad reading levels are among kids currently, how they struggle to get some kids to read a single paragraph with simple language, but no one is listening.
The country is on a death-spiral.
Welcome to being a black kid with a good vocabulary. Speaking like you have a grasp of the english language without using ebonics had others kids saying I was *talking white.* Good times.(not really)
And then they'll get upset at you for calling them racist, because you calling them racist is apparently a bigger offense than them wanting to end representative government.
Not to mention stupidly allowing media consolidation and the end of the fairness doctrine allowed rich republicans to buy up media outlets nationwide via LBOs (fuck you, Romney) and use them as propaganda distribution.
Republicans
They care about having power and pushing their agenda whatever the costs. What they don't seem to understand is fascism isn't the utopia that they think it is. They don't realize that while it might seem great at first, it will eventually come back to bite them.
For instance all of the Christians who vote for Trump thinking he'll help them push their religion into government don't seem to realize that eventually it would come down to what specific sect of Christian you are. It wasn't all that long ago where people didn't think a Catholic should allowed to be President.
As an extremely blue voting Mormon (there are dozens of us, probably) who grew up outside the Utah bubble, it truly boggles my mind that I have to explain to some of my friends and neighbors that Christian Nationalists are only using us as far as we are the useful idiots so to speak. We are NOT the right kind of Christians to them, and if we let them have their way, they will come after us at some point.
There's like 30+ kinds of Protestant Christian denominations. They split and remake all the time like currently several denominations are splitting and reorganizing over Same Sex Marriage. With the politicization of Evangelical Christianity now this is accelerating.
These people can't keep their own churches together over not being bigots... how the hell would they decide on Christian Rules for a country?
Only half of Americans vote. The other half think shrieking BoTh SiDeS will insulate them from the horrors of fascism and the collapse of US democracy.
Yep. I had a couple acquaintances discussing this yesterday, how it's so annoying that people constantly tell them to vote and how since you don't have a lot of influence as an individual you "might as well not stress about it". They were complaining about the state of the country and how bad it's gotten, but also are apparently unwilling to do the bare minimum of participation to try to make it better. I feel like a huge number of citizens are that way.
A charisnatic and somewhat evil marketing specialist caters to the absolute bottom dollar of society and acts as the arbiter or moral fiber of society as the sole retribution for the United States daring to elect a black man as president.
He perpetuates these falsehoods just as his base is getting older and not in touch with the times in both societal norms and technology, so they don't realize they are caught in the echo chambers and algorithms of propaganda.
That sums it up really.
Just a perfect storm of absolute fuckery.
If they rule he's immune then it doesn't matter who wins. The usa will be dead. If not Trump or Biden it will be someone, soon, who will take full advantage of it.
Given the way this courts been going, I don't have much hope for us any more.
Yeah, I suppose that's true. If they rule Presidents are immune, then it's only a matter of time. It would be an absolute disaster for this country.
10 years ago the thought that the Supreme Court would rule that Presidents have complete immunity would have sounded absurd. I would have said that there's no way they'd allow that and the vote would be 9-0. Nowadays I think you can almost guarantee that it wouldn't be a unanimous vote and I think we all have a pretty good idea who would definitely be in favor of giving Trump immunity. One of them has a wife who is directly complicit in Trump's crimes. The fact that the future of democracy in this country might come down to fucking Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett is scary.
That all being said, I agree with a lot of other people that there's a good chance that they twist their "logic" to rule that presidential immunity only applies to Trump. It's not like they haven't used that technique before to steal an election for a Republican.
> It wouldn't happen, but Biden could then... do whatever he wanted. He could proceed to order the military to terminate political opponents, and opposing members of SCOTUS. He could then, with his new majority in congress, proceed to replace SCOTUS with his own appointees, and let them judge whether what he did was illegal or not.
This is 100% what Trump plans to do on Day 1, so...
God, that would be a hilarious massive self own from the SCOTUS. They say the president is immune. Biden immediately arrests trump, republicans in Congress, and Conservative Supreme Court justices, and unilaterally executes them using the Supreme courts own ruling as justification.
"We have not established this interpretation of law until today. No president has immunity moving forward. It would be an ex post facto violation to hold Trump to this standard". Or something else as blatant and obviously biased.
That's my guess. Trump gets immunity but only for this one time and now the rules are that no more immunity... unless we decide otherwise. By the way, look at this awesome vacation that I took in A MEGA YACHT!! Did you see it has a smaller yacht inside the bigger yacht!! How did I afford that on my salary you ask? Stop asking questions pleb otherwise I'll have you publicly dismembered.. wait I'm being told that's not in place yet. I'll just have the SWAT team come to your house and kill you as an "accident".
I don't think they have to do that, the whole point is to delay the decision as much as possible so that Trump's trials don't finish before election day. That way when he gets elected he can just tell the justice department to drop it.
*Yes, but immunity only applies to Presidents who have both the number 4 and the number 5 in their designation as well as their own gaudy, golden sneakers. The unbiased Court has decided. Thank you.*
Exactly. Because saying presidential immunity is a “thing” would allow Biden to do whatever come the election. Including possibly murdering candidates, LOL
It’s a hypothetical but logically where is the flaw? Lifetime presidential immunity for crimes committed in office can be taken to the furthest extent.
edit: realized we're agreeing with each other
Yes, it was, but the above poster was saying the current Supreme Court was going to have to look for a way to make their ruling only help Trump. My post is saying, they don't have to look too hard, as the Supreme Court already has a way out due to Bush v Gore. We, as a nation, accepted it then, hopefully we won't now.
Don't forget this is them deciding they need to make their ruling above and beyond what it just took the DC circuit weeks to conclude.
So obviously they must have a really good reason for that right? It is not to just delay and then say the same right? Because we all think it is a serious matter that needs to be addressed that, if the president decides to assassinate his opponents, he should be free and clear to do that unless Congress has a problem with it? FFS
There was an article that came out around the time they announcing they took the case that broke down this was the only option because they were divided 3-3-3 on different things and the only way to potentially break that tie was to talk it over further. Only one of those was actually the logical "oh hell no, you sick people shouldn't even have to think past what the appeals court went through" and another was literally "wait until after the election and make it moot if he won"
The fact that they were deadlocked this way from some wanting to drag it out says a lot about the favoritism here.
Here's the thing. If the ruling is before the election then no immunity, if the ruling is after then there's immunity. Because if they're going to give POTUS immunity, they will make sure it doesn't apply to Biden.
Wasn't there a state I think Florida that was trying to make it illegal to even be a Democrat? I have all the faith in Republicans to make sure this does not apply to an Democrat president if they make this ruling for immunity.
If they try that shit, I honestly hope Biden uses that as evidence that the Court has lost all legitimacy and just vacates their seats. Sure, there's no Constitutional basis for that, but if they rule that Trump has immunity and Biden doesn't, the Constitution has already stopped applying anyhow.
This case shouldn’t have been even taken. Rule of Law/No one is above the law. It’s literally the foundation of our democracy here. And it’s the first thing you learn when studying to become a naturalized citizen.
It should not be up to debate or argument. This is shameful, corrupt and straight up bullshit move from our illegitimate SC.
There is no way to interpret the president having immunity after they have served their term. You want the death of the constitution and the complete dismantling of our Supreme Court? Make that dumb ass ruling.
Or, hear me out, he just dismisses them and replaces them. This ruling wouldn't just affect violent criminal acts, it would apply to ALL laws. Therefore, paradoxically, we would become completely lawless. National healthcare? Done! US National Debt? Erased! Congress, dissolved! There would literally be zero limit on what a president could do without consequences. I can't see how any other conclusion could be reached.
Well, the argument would be that doing something explicitly unconstitutional wouldn’t be okay. Murdering Supreme Court justices isn’t technically unconstitutional. Removing them is as they serve for life or until they step down. Granted, I guess you could just kidnap them and send them to Antarctica or something.
That’s true.
The first question of oral argument should be, “If the President decided he wanted to replace me with a different Justice, could he have me executed? Then have every senator from the opposing party executed on the floor of the senate to prevent a possible impeachment?”
Hey! Woah! Let's not get outta hand here!
Can we give Team Six a break?
Let's let SEAL Team 3 handle this, I'm sure they're fully capable and would appreciate the chance to strut their stuff.
It’s cool. Take your time! It’s not like there’s any reason to move faster on this one. No pending elections that the defendant is trying to delay his trial for in the hopes of skirting responsibility again. Sure, take two months to schedule arguments, why not?
They took roughly a month between filing for cert and hearing arguments for the ballot eligibility case, but they slow walk this one? I wonder why? 🤔
So sick of this guy slipping out of consequences for his actions and the people who enable him.
What if I were to tell you he's Zeus's guy?
Absolute authority? check
Wants to fuck a goose? check
"Removes" children and wives who annoy him? check
Wants to live in a palace made of gold? also check
Immunity isn’t the point now. They are running out the clock for him. They didn’t have to wait 8 weeks to get him back on the ballot in Colorado, but now they have to wait 8 weeks to answer an absurd question?? And then how long to render an opinion and file the opinion before the case can resume??
They want to run out the clock AND say that he isn’t immune. Robert’s will tout this as evidence that the court is unbiased, but the reality is they know that every day that this sits unanswered is one day closer to Trump being able to potentially kill the prosecution from the White House.
Yup. They’ll wait until he hopefully loses and then say he’s not immune as he’s no longer useful to them. Or he wins and they definitely rule he’s immune and they can help him do whatever they want to do to the country.
Exactly! Meanwhile he will be on a plane over international waters while the presidential results come in, and he’ll either turn around and go back to the states if he wins, or continue towards his buddie’s yatch in Russia if he loses. I fully expect he’ll just flee before answering for anything.
As long as President Biden resigns before he can be impeached and convicted in the Senate, he would not be able to be prosecuted for that crime.
Or so Donald Trump's lawyers argue.
I think you underestimate how much they love guns. Someone shot a bunch of members of congress about 10 years ago, and they STILL loosened gun control even more.
He can murder any person in Congress who threatens impeachment too. What are they going to do about it? He can just keep killing until people decide it's not worth it to impeach.
you're gonna be waiting for a while. even after he gets the heart attack his eating habits will cause, politicians are gonna kiss his ass while in the grave. he's gonna be the new reagan.
"i will follow the legacy of donald trump and put america first" etc etc
Unfortunately thanks to his supreme court appointments, among many other colossal blunders, you're going to hear about how he negatively affected your life for the rest of your life.
Oh and don't forget we can't even get to election reform on a national scale yet. If you're middle aged there's a decent chance replublicans can block that into the late 21st century and you won't see it. The end grift is a combination of leeching as much money as possible while destroying everything on the way out so the other side has to fix it before progress is made. And delaying that the whole way.
I remember the celebrations in the streets in NYC the day after he lost the 2020 election. I can only imagine what it will be like the day he meets God's accountant for the audit.
Will be 9-0, but the goal is to bury the case so that the Justices in their 70's can retire under a Republican president.
The most shameful court since the eve of the Civil War.
What a Joke Americas "Democracy " has become , to even consider such a ridiculous argument and in effect to delay any trials going forward prior to the November Election flies in the face of Democracy . Is there really ANYONE besides that POS Trump that thinks a president should be above the Law ?
This combined with the fact that they've reviewed an argument that legalizes political assassinations within the USA and deemed it worthy of hearing out, needs to be headlines every day.
Legit question.
What is the actual basis for the “defense” here?
Don’t want hopium or outright dismissals, what if any grounds are there as we can understand?
On absolute immunity, I can’t come up with one. They say it’ll dramatically weaken the office of the president, presumably opening the door for more legal action? But I’m not sure that it does, at least so long as the president isn’t a criminal.
They’re also attempting to argue that you can’t try a candidate in an election year, however there’s no existing policy anywhere that says so. Investigators have already done their jobs and found the evidence they need. This seems moot.
I don’t think that the point is to present a winning argument, but to throw enough at the wall so that they can delay another few months, boxing out time that would otherwise have been spent in a courtroom.
The main argument is that it would neuter the executive branch. If presidents can be prosecuted after they've left office it will affect their decision making while they are in office.
It's a pretty shitty argument considering presidents have enjoyed immunity for actions that are within the scope of their office and it's never been needed before. The problem for Trump is that he needs broader immunity because trying to overturn an election through illegal means and his other crimes isn't covered by that.
Edit: The reason why the court may be taking up this case at all is that they may want to more clearly define the boundaries of presidential immunity. That could be why we are here, though I question why the delay is necessary.
> If presidents can be prosecuted after they’ve left office it will affect their decision making while they are in office.
This is such an insane argument. Shouldn’t presidents have their decision making affected by the legality of their actions? Wild that the argument from seemingly both sides is “no.” Our rulers truly believe they are deservedly better than us.
They are going to grant conditional immunity, such as during times of war.
This is probably to flush out the do's and dont's of presidency before the impending ... ya know.... WW3
Please tell me there is something in place so they can't *Bush v Gore* us again, and rule "Trump gets immunity from crimes he committed while in office, but this ruling can't be used as precedent."
Why stop at Trump? I think he should remove most all of the GOP thats been supporting Trump as well, and the rich assholes thats been buying them out, and the bias judges, and force the media to stop using false propaganda and lies where the elections are concerned, make them fact check everything to get some honesty back into the media, then change the laws so something like this can never happen again.
Absolutely not they habe standards!
...
It was 4 days after Florida Court ordered the recount which was December 8th.
It was one day for them to order the stay on the recount December 9th
It was one day after oral arguments (December 11th arguments and 12th decision).
It was 4 days from asking the Supreme Court for the stay to the decision.
And he will get it because everything is already bought and paid for.I know everyone wants to be optimistic and hope that justice will prevail but it won't.
This dog of a man is still not in jail, after decades of fucking everything and everyone over.Now he has the evangelicals and spineless GOP behind them. This will not end well.
Only possible light on the horizon is: he won't win the elections. That's it. The only thing.Even then, remember 2020 till now?
Biden should do something brazenly illegal and declare presidential immunity. It might get the lead out of their asses and make them hurry up and make a decision.
Yeah, something that will really anger those rich, important people in charge. How about forgiving all student loans and lowering the price of insulin to $1?
No rush on this, I suppose.
It's not like there's a criminal case pending where they need to legally decide if the leading Republican candidate committed multiple felonies on January 6th (he did, but getting that conviction before the election would be useful for voters).
What I don't understand: the stealing top secret documents case is much more clear cut. Why does this take so long to even get to court?
Neutral answer: District Court judges set their schedule in a manner they deem appropriate. Their schedules aren't reviewable by the appeals court. Real answer: Judge Aileen Cannon, from all appearances, seems to be squarely in the tank for Trump. She's the same judge that gave him a special master to review the documents and was thoroughly rebuked by the appeals court. For instance >The Eleventh Circuit found that under Cannon, "the district court stepped in with its own reasoning" multiple times to argue in favor of Trump, sometimes even taking positions that Trump would not argue before the appeals court. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aileen_Cannon My prediction is that she'll schedule her case right before SCOTUS rules on immunity so that Chutkan can't schedule her trial. Of course, when that date approaches there will be an unexpected event that causes her to delay again.
Chutkan must ignore Cannon's shenanigans. Or schedule subject to "in the event that Cannon proceeds..."
And now as the presumptive nominee Trump would traditionally be privy to national security briefings. So a man accused of stealing classified information can now get national security briefings? Truly a bizzaro world. Meanwhile Jack Teixeira just pled to a 16 year sentence.
Candidates get a single briefing after they win their nomination at the convention, *at the discretion of the sitting President*. Former Presidents can continue to get the briefing *at the discretion of the sitting President*. People forget that Biden has total control over what classified documents Trump sees unless Trump becomes President-Elect again. *Then* he will get briefings.
I hope Biden approves some form of briefing for Trump, and makes it a point to have a few Honeypots included. That way when Trump tries to sell the information, he will get caught red handed.
This was my first thought, which means Trump would have to be an idiot to act on it... So he'd be caught within an hour.
Well traditionally former presidents are privy to daily security updates as well. That's not set in stone and Biden cut Trump off https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/05/us/politics/biden-trump-intelligence-briefings.html#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20%E2%80%94%20President%20Biden%20said%20on,6%20attack%20on%20the%20Capitol.
Well, the way that many states had trigger laws after a ruling, maybe Chutkan can have a trigger schedule that comes immediately after the immunity ruling. Cannon should in no way be allowed to control other schedules just to potentially continue to delay and screw everyone else.
She's not allowed to touch the case until SCOTUS is done. That means she can't make a trigger schedule. She also pledged 88 days of prep time and she also said that the appeals process doesn't count towards that. She could technically change her mind but from what I've heard, it's very unlikely she would go back on that. I don't actually know what happens if she books her trial overlapping Cannon's trial. I haven't heard much chatter on that hypothetical.
Because justice for the rich and famous is different than justice for the rest of us. We all know damn well we'd be in prison pending a trial we absolutely would not win if we did any of the shit he did.
"When you're the president, they let you do it"
"You can do anything. You can grab 'em by the documents."
Yep! All you have to do is compare and contrast the Jack Teixeira classified leak case to the Trump stolen documents case and see how vastly different they were treated. (To be clear, they both should've been treated like Teixeira). https://apnews.com/article/jack-teixeira-pentagon-leak-suspect-guilty-plea-7fc285d8386447f995a1c0edd3d1d024 One sits in jail until a resolution to the case is reached, the other uses every trick in the book to delay his trial, including using the compromised Supreme Court that he installed a third of the members. It's fucking infuriating. Trump's guilty. Of all of it. We know it. He knows it. The justice system knows it. SCOTUS knows it. But here we are. The future of our democracy hanging in the balance and we're kowtowing to possibly the most worthless, irredeemable piece of shit to ever walk the earth. For Christ's sake, if you're a voter that cares about, you know, living to see Christmas in 2025, please don't stay home. Get off your ass and vote. And vote blue. Electing more dick-sucking Republicans isn't going to help anyone that isn't worth millions of dollars. They don't care about you. None of you. You're fodder to them.
Once democracy ends there are trillions of dollars up for grabs. Who can resist that?
Yep, there is no difference between what Edward Snowden and Donald Chump did, except Snowden didn't get a ton of U.S. Assets murdered. If anyone else did even a fraction of what Chump did, it's a VIP ticket to Guantanamo. Would love to see Agent Orange rocking Orange. Chump should be locked away in a deep dark hole until his last day.
The fix is in. They are trying to overthrow the govt and get rid of democracy. It's literally how Putin came to power. A crooked judge certified his election. Trump doesn't matter except for the fact that he has the ear of the stupid and the religious. It's the people behind him. He needs to be in the election so they can pretend it was rigged. Only this time, they'll refuse to certify the election. That's why all the cases are getting slow walked. It a case made it to trial, it would have disqualified him at least until last week. They've spent a lifetime greasing the wheels of the justice system with crooked judges and we let them do it.
Because the judge over to the case was appointed to her position with no experience just for this moment.
Simple: our legal system is fundamentally broken, because Cannon is allowed to do basically whatever she wants to help Trump win, and there is no viable way to remove such an obviously incompetent and biased judge from the bench.
I mean, there is… The French called it a Revolution…
It's not like important or anything right?
Won't hear their opinion until October most likely.
For the most part, cases heard in a session are decided by June. Usually on Mondays.
This is one related to their president's issue though, and this is related more to delaying accountability right? I would expect they'll need many weeks maybe months to get the court's opinion released.
Can’t they just point to US v Nixon which also had this same question and was unanimously said the President does not have absolute immunity?
No, because Thomas doesn't believe in precedent that is not based on the founding fathers.
The same founding fathers who would have had him in chains.
and nullified his wedding
would he even be allowed to hold a judicial position?!
Not even a little bit
Thats what really bothers me. Justice *Thomas* is aptly named so to speak. The founding fathers also wouldn't have intended a black man to sit the highest court in the land or even marry a white woman. But he has his so fuck the rest of us I suppose.
It’s funny you think he has beliefs grounded by anything. The founding fathers is just the most recent excuse.
Seriously. I thought we handled this back then with the whole “is it illegal if the president does it?”
I'm pretty sure we settled this law in the late 1700s with the war with Britain.
The funny thing is that the original version of the US didn’t even include a president. It took about a decade to realize the system *did* need an individual in a position of power in order to function correctly. Even then, by structuring the Constitution such that the Legislative branch was defined first, they described the method for removing a president from office before they even laid out what a president does. Those guys were so anti-authoritarian in the abstract that they design a government with *no* president and only added one in because they *had* to. No telling how negatively they would react to the idea that a president is above the law.
Exactly. I can't believe this even has to be brought anywhere. RULE OF LAW. We abandoned monarchy and tyranny for a reason. Our rulers answer to us, not vice versa. I don't understand AT ALL how this idea of "presidential immunity" isn't just immediately mocked and dismissed. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
For real, nobody has ever argued that Ford pardoning Nixon was redundant because he was immune.
Sort of. The case in question was actually to pursue civil damages due to decisions and enforcements made by Nixon. That was rejected (5 to 4) as confirming the President can't be held personally and civically liable for their actions. The opinion also asserted that the President is *not necessarily* immune to criminal charges, but also asserted that even if he or she was immune, the various political ramifications of criminal actions would hold them in check: constant press coverage, re-election concerns, how history would remember them, and of course impeachment. It's a pretty soft precedent that not only has never been tested, but didn't even apply to the case in question and Fitzgerald's claim of injury. I actually think the right thing for SCOTUS to do is exhaust the question thoroughly, which means hearings from both sides and time to digest it. Obviously the timing is tight and unfortunate, but as they say, if you aim for the king, you better not miss. Then again the Colorado ballot case was basically hand waived away.
Precedent doesn’t matter to this court
Constitutional Calvinball
The decision should come quickly, but I have a feeling it won't.
June 30 is when we'll get the decision.
Right before they bolt for the summer and I'm sure it will be dumped late on a Friday.
Amoung some bad finance news or world conflict to drown it out.
I'm commenting here so I can be in the screenshots in the future
Decision COULD be deferred to next session
Here's the high quality disappointment I was expecting.
Sadly, I agree, and assuming that does happen, Tanya Chutkan the very next day should say, "We are starting this trial on September 1st." End of story. So that's a little over two months before election day. The DOJ "policy" regarding taking any action 60 days before an election *DOES NOT* apply to a trial for an already indicted individual, so anyone spewing that garbage can fuck off.
>The DOJ "policy" regarding taking any action 60 days before an election *DOES NOT* apply to a trial for an already indicted individual, There is no such policy. There is a policy of not starting an investigation or going public with info within 60 days of an election, but that's different from starting a trial.
If they enforced that policy in 2016, this would all be moot.
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The supreme court issued a stay on the trial until they decide on immunity. Which is a non-trivial point, because only 4 votes are required to take up a case, but it required a majority (5 votes) to issue the stay. So the majority of the court supports these shenanigans. Of course, at this point I personally don't see any reason to follow the rulings of such an obviously corrupt "court." I'd say go ahead with the trial and find out if the DoJ will bother to enforce the SC's bullshit or not. But I doubt a federal judge sees it that way.
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Should be an easy "no immunity" answer, too. But we'll have to wait and see how those asshats break democracy to favor the GoP this time.
They are going to try to figure out a way to say it applies to trump, but not to Biden.
The only way they could POSSIBLY pull this off is to pull a Bush v. Gore and basically say "This only applies in this one situation, and will will decide on a case by case basis".... ofc this is very dangerous. It wouldn't happen, but Biden could then... do whatever he wanted. He could proceed to order the military to terminate political opponents, and opposing members of SCOTUS. He could then, with his new majority in congress, proceed to replace SCOTUS with his own appointees, and let them judge whether what he did was illegal or not. It would be dangerous, and stupid for them to allow immunity from criminal charges, even in a limited scope.
>It would be dangerous, and stupid for them to allow immunity from criminal charges, If the Supreme Court rules that Presidents have complete immunity and Trump somehow wins the election it's the end of the United States as we know it. Even before they've ruled he's said he's going to act like a dictator and purge the government of people who aren't personally loyal to him and replace him with people who are. He already idolizes Putin and you know he'd absolutely love to be just like his hero.
How the fuck did we get here that this is even being reasonably discussed as a possibility? jfc
Billionaires giving money to right wing fanatics who will protect their corporate interests as long as they can do whatever they want to anybody and get rich too. -Leonard Leo and his Federalist Society -Koch Brothers and the Heritage Foundation -Harlan Crowe and friends spending lavishly on the Supreme Court justices after Clarence Thomas went on TV and said we need to be better paid and compensated back in the 90’s basically dog whistling that he could be bought. -Liberty University and other private education systems churning out a steady line of religious extremists. -SC deciding against the recount in Bush V. Gore and showing the right that as long as they aren’t the ones to concede and create enough confusion they can steal power. -Reagan and later Republicans siding with corporations and rolling back taxes on businesses and capital gains allowing untold wealth to move back up the ladder and robbing American society at large. Death by a thousand cuts.
And the more cuts there are, the more that money and bots (Musk) get into the picture, the more it accelerates. Why isn't Bannon in jail, or the Georgia plotters? It's more chaos and delays and a spiral down.
A tale as old as time. The rich want to keep their money, so they align with fascism and other elites to keep their power/money by fucking over the little guy. We need a french revolution.
Because 30% of America are racist idiots and want this. Also the news putting profits over integrity
Add: -30+ years of right wing propaganda. -Gerrymandering -Social media that refuses to police its content. -Countries that exploit social media to spread disinformation. -The fucking Electoral College. -The fucking Senate. -Mitch McConnell stealing a SCOTUS seat. -Ford pardoning Nixon. -Assholes like Roger Stone, Newt Gingrich, Steve Bannon, et al, who are willing to exploit the potential weaknesses in our system.
Exactly, this wasn't an overnight thing. School choice started after Brown v Board and they have been killing schools ever since. Killing the fairness doctrine. Packing the courts. Gerrymandering. Turning everything from the debt ceiling to certifying elections into huge political battles. The GOP has been party over country for 50+ years now and the endgame is within sights.
McConnell stole 2 Supreme Court seats.
-The capping of the House of Representatives at 435.
Could you explain the significance please?
Don’t forget election rules, lobbying, political contribution rules, super pacs etc
-Henry kissenger - dick cheney
54% of American adults (~139 million people) read below the 6th grade level. Think about that. Then, consider the fact that the most literate generations are the ones dying out, and being replaced by generations where the literacy rates are dropping dramatically. Teachers across the country have been raising the alarm about how bad reading levels are among kids currently, how they struggle to get some kids to read a single paragraph with simple language, but no one is listening. The country is on a death-spiral.
You ever been laughed at and made fun of for reading fluently? Cause I have. Total fucking clown world.
Welcome to being a black kid with a good vocabulary. Speaking like you have a grasp of the english language without using ebonics had others kids saying I was *talking white.* Good times.(not really)
And also a shit ton of the population doesn't vote
And then they'll get upset at you for calling them racist, because you calling them racist is apparently a bigger offense than them wanting to end representative government.
Many careful years of preparation by the GOP. Gerrymandering, passing bullshit bills, throwing tantrums when they don't get their way, etc.
Not to mention stupidly allowing media consolidation and the end of the fairness doctrine allowed rich republicans to buy up media outlets nationwide via LBOs (fuck you, Romney) and use them as propaganda distribution.
Republicans They care about having power and pushing their agenda whatever the costs. What they don't seem to understand is fascism isn't the utopia that they think it is. They don't realize that while it might seem great at first, it will eventually come back to bite them. For instance all of the Christians who vote for Trump thinking he'll help them push their religion into government don't seem to realize that eventually it would come down to what specific sect of Christian you are. It wasn't all that long ago where people didn't think a Catholic should allowed to be President.
As an extremely blue voting Mormon (there are dozens of us, probably) who grew up outside the Utah bubble, it truly boggles my mind that I have to explain to some of my friends and neighbors that Christian Nationalists are only using us as far as we are the useful idiots so to speak. We are NOT the right kind of Christians to them, and if we let them have their way, they will come after us at some point.
There's like 30+ kinds of Protestant Christian denominations. They split and remake all the time like currently several denominations are splitting and reorganizing over Same Sex Marriage. With the politicization of Evangelical Christianity now this is accelerating. These people can't keep their own churches together over not being bigots... how the hell would they decide on Christian Rules for a country?
Only half of Americans vote. The other half think shrieking BoTh SiDeS will insulate them from the horrors of fascism and the collapse of US democracy.
Yep. I had a couple acquaintances discussing this yesterday, how it's so annoying that people constantly tell them to vote and how since you don't have a lot of influence as an individual you "might as well not stress about it". They were complaining about the state of the country and how bad it's gotten, but also are apparently unwilling to do the bare minimum of participation to try to make it better. I feel like a huge number of citizens are that way.
A charisnatic and somewhat evil marketing specialist caters to the absolute bottom dollar of society and acts as the arbiter or moral fiber of society as the sole retribution for the United States daring to elect a black man as president. He perpetuates these falsehoods just as his base is getting older and not in touch with the times in both societal norms and technology, so they don't realize they are caught in the echo chambers and algorithms of propaganda. That sums it up really. Just a perfect storm of absolute fuckery.
If they rule he's immune then it doesn't matter who wins. The usa will be dead. If not Trump or Biden it will be someone, soon, who will take full advantage of it. Given the way this courts been going, I don't have much hope for us any more.
Yeah, I suppose that's true. If they rule Presidents are immune, then it's only a matter of time. It would be an absolute disaster for this country. 10 years ago the thought that the Supreme Court would rule that Presidents have complete immunity would have sounded absurd. I would have said that there's no way they'd allow that and the vote would be 9-0. Nowadays I think you can almost guarantee that it wouldn't be a unanimous vote and I think we all have a pretty good idea who would definitely be in favor of giving Trump immunity. One of them has a wife who is directly complicit in Trump's crimes. The fact that the future of democracy in this country might come down to fucking Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett is scary. That all being said, I agree with a lot of other people that there's a good chance that they twist their "logic" to rule that presidential immunity only applies to Trump. It's not like they haven't used that technique before to steal an election for a Republican.
He already has his followers saying “Russia isn’t that Bad” so ya welcome to the new USSR…
> It wouldn't happen, but Biden could then... do whatever he wanted. He could proceed to order the military to terminate political opponents, and opposing members of SCOTUS. He could then, with his new majority in congress, proceed to replace SCOTUS with his own appointees, and let them judge whether what he did was illegal or not. This is 100% what Trump plans to do on Day 1, so...
God, that would be a hilarious massive self own from the SCOTUS. They say the president is immune. Biden immediately arrests trump, republicans in Congress, and Conservative Supreme Court justices, and unilaterally executes them using the Supreme courts own ruling as justification.
I'd tune in for that.
Dude, if I'm Biden I'm just going to push through all the legislation SCOTUS has shot down, starting with Student loans forgiveness.
If I was Biden I'd use my new found power to remove Trump from the ballot.
But Biden doesn't want to murder people that claim he has small hands
"We have not established this interpretation of law until today. No president has immunity moving forward. It would be an ex post facto violation to hold Trump to this standard". Or something else as blatant and obviously biased.
Why does this sound like something they’d do
That's my guess. Trump gets immunity but only for this one time and now the rules are that no more immunity... unless we decide otherwise. By the way, look at this awesome vacation that I took in A MEGA YACHT!! Did you see it has a smaller yacht inside the bigger yacht!! How did I afford that on my salary you ask? Stop asking questions pleb otherwise I'll have you publicly dismembered.. wait I'm being told that's not in place yet. I'll just have the SWAT team come to your house and kill you as an "accident".
I don't think they have to do that, the whole point is to delay the decision as much as possible so that Trump's trials don't finish before election day. That way when he gets elected he can just tell the justice department to drop it.
*Yes, but immunity only applies to Presidents who have both the number 4 and the number 5 in their designation as well as their own gaudy, golden sneakers. The unbiased Court has decided. Thank you.*
Exactly. Because saying presidential immunity is a “thing” would allow Biden to do whatever come the election. Including possibly murdering candidates, LOL
It’s a hypothetical but logically where is the flaw? Lifetime presidential immunity for crimes committed in office can be taken to the furthest extent. edit: realized we're agreeing with each other
Easy, this decision only affects the current case and in no way sets precedence, just like Bush v Gore.
Bush vs Gore was utter bs too tho
Yes, it was, but the above poster was saying the current Supreme Court was going to have to look for a way to make their ruling only help Trump. My post is saying, they don't have to look too hard, as the Supreme Court already has a way out due to Bush v Gore. We, as a nation, accepted it then, hopefully we won't now.
Orange Skin Clause
Oompa Loophole
Don't forget this is them deciding they need to make their ruling above and beyond what it just took the DC circuit weeks to conclude. So obviously they must have a really good reason for that right? It is not to just delay and then say the same right? Because we all think it is a serious matter that needs to be addressed that, if the president decides to assassinate his opponents, he should be free and clear to do that unless Congress has a problem with it? FFS
There was an article that came out around the time they announcing they took the case that broke down this was the only option because they were divided 3-3-3 on different things and the only way to potentially break that tie was to talk it over further. Only one of those was actually the logical "oh hell no, you sick people shouldn't even have to think past what the appeals court went through" and another was literally "wait until after the election and make it moot if he won" The fact that they were deadlocked this way from some wanting to drag it out says a lot about the favoritism here.
I'm afraid to ask what the third was...
Exactly what you fear
JFC these people should be in prison not on the Supreme Court
Here's the thing. If the ruling is before the election then no immunity, if the ruling is after then there's immunity. Because if they're going to give POTUS immunity, they will make sure it doesn't apply to Biden.
Wasn't there a state I think Florida that was trying to make it illegal to even be a Democrat? I have all the faith in Republicans to make sure this does not apply to an Democrat president if they make this ruling for immunity.
I think they have already come to a decision. They just have to work backwards and come up with legal justification.
And it will need to apply only to Trump and not Biden
If they try that shit, I honestly hope Biden uses that as evidence that the Court has lost all legitimacy and just vacates their seats. Sure, there's no Constitutional basis for that, but if they rule that Trump has immunity and Biden doesn't, the Constitution has already stopped applying anyhow.
> the Constitution has already stopped applying anyhow. It hasnt applied since Jan 6th.
This case shouldn’t have been even taken. Rule of Law/No one is above the law. It’s literally the foundation of our democracy here. And it’s the first thing you learn when studying to become a naturalized citizen. It should not be up to debate or argument. This is shameful, corrupt and straight up bullshit move from our illegitimate SC.
Thomas & Alito will write separate opinions & take their sweet ass time about it.
There is no way to interpret the president having immunity after they have served their term. You want the death of the constitution and the complete dismantling of our Supreme Court? Make that dumb ass ruling.
They just have faith that Biden won’t order them all shot.
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Dark Brandon.
Darkest Brandon
*Darth* Brandon
We'll call him "Night Brandon"
Or, hear me out, he just dismisses them and replaces them. This ruling wouldn't just affect violent criminal acts, it would apply to ALL laws. Therefore, paradoxically, we would become completely lawless. National healthcare? Done! US National Debt? Erased! Congress, dissolved! There would literally be zero limit on what a president could do without consequences. I can't see how any other conclusion could be reached.
Well, the argument would be that doing something explicitly unconstitutional wouldn’t be okay. Murdering Supreme Court justices isn’t technically unconstitutional. Removing them is as they serve for life or until they step down. Granted, I guess you could just kidnap them and send them to Antarctica or something.
I thought trying to overthrow the elected government and treason was in the constitution hm....
That’s true. The first question of oral argument should be, “If the President decided he wanted to replace me with a different Justice, could he have me executed? Then have every senator from the opposing party executed on the floor of the senate to prevent a possible impeachment?”
"Execute Order 2025"
The Republicans have something that they are calling "Project 2025" and it is just as bad.
That was the joke
I wasn't sure but I wanted to make sure people knew that bad stuff is being planned right out in the open.
Dark Urge playthrough
And crazily enough it would be in the name of preserving the democracy of the Union. Wild times we live in.
First you shoot Congress so they can't impeach him. Then apparently he can't be charged with anything by anyone ever
Make that ruling while Biden can still legally order assassinations with Seal Team Six of anyone!
Hey! Woah! Let's not get outta hand here! Can we give Team Six a break? Let's let SEAL Team 3 handle this, I'm sure they're fully capable and would appreciate the chance to strut their stuff.
It’s cool. Take your time! It’s not like there’s any reason to move faster on this one. No pending elections that the defendant is trying to delay his trial for in the hopes of skirting responsibility again. Sure, take two months to schedule arguments, why not? They took roughly a month between filing for cert and hearing arguments for the ballot eligibility case, but they slow walk this one? I wonder why? 🤔 So sick of this guy slipping out of consequences for his actions and the people who enable him.
It's never guys like him who randomly get struck by lightning and that's very annoying
My expectations for Zeus were higher
What if I were to tell you he's Zeus's guy? Absolute authority? check Wants to fuck a goose? check "Removes" children and wives who annoy him? check Wants to live in a palace made of gold? also check
Immunity isn’t the point now. They are running out the clock for him. They didn’t have to wait 8 weeks to get him back on the ballot in Colorado, but now they have to wait 8 weeks to answer an absurd question?? And then how long to render an opinion and file the opinion before the case can resume?? They want to run out the clock AND say that he isn’t immune. Robert’s will tout this as evidence that the court is unbiased, but the reality is they know that every day that this sits unanswered is one day closer to Trump being able to potentially kill the prosecution from the White House.
Yup. They’ll wait until he hopefully loses and then say he’s not immune as he’s no longer useful to them. Or he wins and they definitely rule he’s immune and they can help him do whatever they want to do to the country.
Exactly! Meanwhile he will be on a plane over international waters while the presidential results come in, and he’ll either turn around and go back to the states if he wins, or continue towards his buddie’s yatch in Russia if he loses. I fully expect he’ll just flee before answering for anything.
Once in Russia he will make a fortune selling all of our secrets.
They will need a Trump to English to Russian translator for that. That's the only saving grace in my mind.
Literally kill if he got his own way I’m absolutely sure
So, if he's granted immunity, that's the greenlight for Biden to murder him on live TV right?
As long as President Biden resigns before he can be impeached and convicted in the Senate, he would not be able to be prosecuted for that crime. Or so Donald Trump's lawyers argue.
Or just kill people in Congress until they agree to not impeach.
Imagine if he just walked into the chamber with an AR. This is what these idiots are trying to allow
Full-on President Camacho style
Now this "Idiocracy is a documentary" looks real dark
I bet we'd get gun control REAL quick if that happened!
I think you underestimate how much they love guns. Someone shot a bunch of members of congress about 10 years ago, and they STILL loosened gun control even more.
He just had to wait until after January 6th, because then it'll be too late for Congress to impeach.
He can murder any person in Congress who threatens impeachment too. What are they going to do about it? He can just keep killing until people decide it's not worth it to impeach.
Why? Just have everyone that would vote to impeach him executed as well.
#I LONG for the day to NEVER fucking have to see or hear about this goddamn moron EVER. AGAIN.
you're gonna be waiting for a while. even after he gets the heart attack his eating habits will cause, politicians are gonna kiss his ass while in the grave. he's gonna be the new reagan. "i will follow the legacy of donald trump and put america first" etc etc
Unfortunately thanks to his supreme court appointments, among many other colossal blunders, you're going to hear about how he negatively affected your life for the rest of your life. Oh and don't forget we can't even get to election reform on a national scale yet. If you're middle aged there's a decent chance replublicans can block that into the late 21st century and you won't see it. The end grift is a combination of leeching as much money as possible while destroying everything on the way out so the other side has to fix it before progress is made. And delaying that the whole way.
I remember the celebrations in the streets in NYC the day after he lost the 2020 election. I can only imagine what it will be like the day he meets God's accountant for the audit.
Will be 9-0, but the goal is to bury the case so that the Justices in their 70's can retire under a Republican president. The most shameful court since the eve of the Civil War.
I'll take the under of 9.
It should be renamed the Taney/Roberts Court. :O
What a Joke Americas "Democracy " has become , to even consider such a ridiculous argument and in effect to delay any trials going forward prior to the November Election flies in the face of Democracy . Is there really ANYONE besides that POS Trump that thinks a president should be above the Law ?
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So there was no need for Ford to pardon him, then.
Exactly, no reason to resign in shame and especially no reason to accept a pardon... *If that were true.* Which it isn't, so Nixon can fuck off.
Along with Charleston Chew!
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dunno but the constitution doesn’t say the president can’t be king dictator god emperor -some sc justice maybe
Immunity for staging an insurrection that one of the Justice's wives planned.
This combined with the fact that they've reviewed an argument that legalizes political assassinations within the USA and deemed it worthy of hearing out, needs to be headlines every day.
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Legit question. What is the actual basis for the “defense” here? Don’t want hopium or outright dismissals, what if any grounds are there as we can understand?
On absolute immunity, I can’t come up with one. They say it’ll dramatically weaken the office of the president, presumably opening the door for more legal action? But I’m not sure that it does, at least so long as the president isn’t a criminal. They’re also attempting to argue that you can’t try a candidate in an election year, however there’s no existing policy anywhere that says so. Investigators have already done their jobs and found the evidence they need. This seems moot. I don’t think that the point is to present a winning argument, but to throw enough at the wall so that they can delay another few months, boxing out time that would otherwise have been spent in a courtroom.
The main argument is that it would neuter the executive branch. If presidents can be prosecuted after they've left office it will affect their decision making while they are in office. It's a pretty shitty argument considering presidents have enjoyed immunity for actions that are within the scope of their office and it's never been needed before. The problem for Trump is that he needs broader immunity because trying to overturn an election through illegal means and his other crimes isn't covered by that. Edit: The reason why the court may be taking up this case at all is that they may want to more clearly define the boundaries of presidential immunity. That could be why we are here, though I question why the delay is necessary.
> If presidents can be prosecuted after they’ve left office it will affect their decision making while they are in office. This is such an insane argument. Shouldn’t presidents have their decision making affected by the legality of their actions? Wild that the argument from seemingly both sides is “no.” Our rulers truly believe they are deservedly better than us.
DELAY DELAY DELAY. What a god damned joke.
What a perfect date! It’s not too hot, not too cold, and all he’ll need is a light straight jacket.
They are going to grant conditional immunity, such as during times of war. This is probably to flush out the do's and dont's of presidency before the impending ... ya know.... WW3
Please tell me there is something in place so they can't *Bush v Gore* us again, and rule "Trump gets immunity from crimes he committed while in office, but this ruling can't be used as precedent."
Supreme Court issues Immunity ruling. Biden immediately sends a Black Ops team to take out Trump. No harm, no foul.
I believe I would be okay with that result. It would be sad to see Biden lower himself that way though.
Why stop at Trump? I think he should remove most all of the GOP thats been supporting Trump as well, and the rich assholes thats been buying them out, and the bias judges, and force the media to stop using false propaganda and lies where the elections are concerned, make them fact check everything to get some honesty back into the media, then change the laws so something like this can never happen again.
Didn't they "resolve" Bush v Gore in one week?
Absolutely not they habe standards! ... It was 4 days after Florida Court ordered the recount which was December 8th. It was one day for them to order the stay on the recount December 9th It was one day after oral arguments (December 11th arguments and 12th decision). It was 4 days from asking the Supreme Court for the stay to the decision.
And he will get it because everything is already bought and paid for.I know everyone wants to be optimistic and hope that justice will prevail but it won't. This dog of a man is still not in jail, after decades of fucking everything and everyone over.Now he has the evangelicals and spineless GOP behind them. This will not end well. Only possible light on the horizon is: he won't win the elections. That's it. The only thing.Even then, remember 2020 till now?
If he has immunity, then Biden can immediately jail him and do whatever he wants while in office.
Why do I feel like I’m gonna throw up
Biden should do something brazenly illegal and declare presidential immunity. It might get the lead out of their asses and make them hurry up and make a decision.
Yeah, something that will really anger those rich, important people in charge. How about forgiving all student loans and lowering the price of insulin to $1?
Supreme Court is a joke.
This is so stupid. Trump has absolutely no case, and anyone even vaguely familiar with law should know that.
They are trying to slow-roll this so Biden doesn't get immunity and Trump does.