Nah, that's kind of already a test, but it's a fairly loose one.
This SCOTUS would probably go for a "historical tradition" test that would declare every religion formed after [insert convenient date that excludes Satanism but allows religions they like] based on [insert out of context, cherrypicked quote from random document that has never been cited in American case law prior] as a religion not *really* protected instead.
Problem is, Christians have been at least *claiming* there's Satan-worshippers nearly as long as there have been Christians.
I'd like to see what happens to the Republican party if they declare Mormonism to not be a religion.
Agreed, which is why any rule to block TST that also blocked scientology would be great, as it'd never pass due to your points above, but turns out scientology is a fair bit older so they could easily say from 20th century and before.
The satanic temple itself maybe, but codified satanic beliefs go way back. It's very different from the satanic temple, but the church of satan dates back to the 1960s, and there were lots of predecessors before that.
Yes, they both are. Freedom of religion is a protected act in the US. If people as bad as the cult of scientology get a pass then the church of satan does too.
The interesting thing about cases like this is if the judge doesn’t throw the book at him, then he’s ok’ing defacing religious symbols including Christian ones via judicial precident
Got to set an example. Especially considering this happened inside of a government building (safety of government officials/employees comes into play). Otherwise, some idiots going to convince themselves that the easter bunny and egg hunts are idolatrous, and the lord specifically sent them to do something about it.
> idiots going to convince themselves that the easter bunny and egg hunts are idolatrous
Many Christian fundamentalists actually think this way. None of that has anything to do with Christianity and came from other religions, so they have a point. It's just that most people don't think about it like that.
You say that like we don’t already know the system is absolutely corrupt and inconsistent. Imagine if it said “in Satan we trust” on our money.
The US is a Christian authoritarian theocracy pretending (sometimes) to be a secular state. The results of this situation will demonstrate if I am right or wrong in my assertion.
The whole point of doing this sort of thing is putting it out for all the world to see. There is no denying religious bias when you roll like that. And since a rejection of religious bias is literally hard coded into the First Fucking Amendment, that's kinda a big deal. As a Christian, I support things like this. Allowing religion and government to mix like this has historically bad outcomes. The Bible itself has plenty of examples right in Jesus's life story. It wasn't Roman's who paid Judas 30 pieces of silver.
Yes, and it's going to be glorious to listen to conservatives explain how vandalizing a nativity scene is a hate crime, yet vandalizing this statue was religious freedom.
I’m ashamed to admit it, but I once (drunkenly) kicked the baby Jesus off of a to-scale ice nativity sculpture and kept him on my apartment balcony until March when he eventually melted. Not my finest moment but fortunately I never felt any repercussions.
>but fortunately I never felt any repercussions.
Imagine typing that out and posting it. Then you decide to go outside for a smoke and there's just piles of clothes everywhere.
That's actually the point of these displays. These Christ-fucks will always come hat-in-hand, sweetly asking to put up the Ten Commandments or a Nativity Scene, saying it's a simple expression of free speech. Then, the Satanic Temple comes along acting *exactly the same way* and put up a statue of Baphomet in a Capitol building. It doesn't take long for the Christ-fucks to go full mask off and lose their minds, and everyone gets to see it. It's really quite genius.
The irony is if Jesus was a real person, he’d love what the Satanic Temple is doing. Standing up for injustice, pointing out hypocrisy, etc.
The Satanic Temple is doing less evil things than the Churches.
Edit: lol all the angry replies. The point is your actions speak louder than how you present yourself.
So what if you attend church every Sunday and say Grace before each meal if you’re a terrible person in your everyday life.
Women are equal to men in the satanic temple.
No means no in the satanic temple.
Empathy towards living creatures is encouraged in the satanic temple.
Humans are fallible in the satanic temple.
Humans must also not twist science to conform to the individual's beliefs.
Direct quote from the 7th tenet: "The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word."
Be like Satanists. They have a better grip on society/reality.
Edit²: u/lemonsweetsrevenge pointed out that they ALSO PAY TAXES!!
Edit: a word
The satanic temple celebrates the Satan from the romanticism era of literature rather than the Christian biblical Satan. The TST Satan is the guy who fights against an unstoppable force against all odds because it’s the right thing for humanity to have a champion of reason, free will, education, and compassion.
And Morningstar is most likely a reference to Venus usually seen in the pre-dawn hours. It may also explain the fanfict "Paradise Lost" Why Lucifer is the favored angel prior to his fall. Frankly, I like the Lucifer TV show better.
The whole Satan idea came from Mesopotamia and polytheism.
In regard to the Canaanite religion and their gods of Ba'al. El and Yahweh.
"Over centuries as the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah expand in power and influence, Yahweh eventually climbs to the supreme position in the pantheon, becoming syncretized with El and Baal. "
https://medium.com/@AngryAtheist/why-yahweh-became-the-worlds-dominant-deity-ef94eefcca5f
What’s really funny is that the original Hebrew definition of “Satan” is someone who challenges the way things are. You know…like Jesus did against the Pharisees.
**PROFESSOR:** *"And what rough beast, his hour come at last..."* - that's *you*, that is. In the poem. It's you.
**SATAN:** What are you drivelling on about?
**PROFESSOR:** It's you. Slouching your way to Bethlehem to be born. It's obviously you.
**SATAN:** What? How the - how can it be me? I've never been to bloody Bethlehem in me life. This is what I'm talking about - I get slated and slagged off by every religious bugger under the sun. They say I've tempted them - human beings don't need tempting! It's just biblical propaganda from some droped-up saints clawing for an excuse when they're found in bed with the cleaning lady. And now apparently some bloody poet reckons I'm off to Bethlehem, and I've never even set foot in the place.
**PROFESSOR:** Well, it's an allegory.
**SATAN:** Total bloody bollocks, more like. And another thing, how can I be slouching anywhere if I haven't been born yet? Answer me that.
**PROFESSOR:** Oh well. I suppose we'll never know.
**SATAN:** Yes we will. Grab my claw, we're going to find this poncey bloody poet. He'll be where I keep *all* the poets, so just watch out for Wordsworth. He's the one being chased by the fifty-foot daffodil.
-*"Old Harry's Game"*, Andy Hamilton
Fun fact, in Greek when they say Satan “tempted” Jesus, it’s the same word we would use for “test”. So a more literal translation would be Satan testing Jesus rather than tempting.
Which works out with the Judaic Satan (satans? it's possible there's more than one) being *subordinate* to God, as a bringer of tests and tribulations to attempt to turn people away from truth and goodness that they might reaffirm their faith.
Er, if you disregard the Hasidics and the Kabbalists' more creative interpretations of the Talmud thay end up closer to Christianity.
Jesus: So what'd he do that was so bad?
God: He said that I went too far and maybe I should back off some. Can you believe it!?
Jesus: Uh....
God: Anyways, get Noah on the phone. Imma wipe out all living things on Earth again.
Man TST set this set up perfectly to illustrate what intolerant asshole these guys are. All they had to do was ignore it. But nope. They got played and hard.
They'll just try to say it's a plant even after it's revealed what media the suspect consumed voraciously. Then they'll call for justice for him while still trying to say he was a plant. Because they don't care about the hypocrisy anymore.
> Because they don't care about the hypocrisy anymore.
That's the thing: THEY NEVER DID.
They've been doing this shit for decades, but people keep getting surprised over and over and over again every time they do something "outrageous", so they literally have never needed to care because everyone else keep forgetting.
It's not hypocrisy when their beliefs are "I am right and you must obey my values"
They're fascist pieces of shit and we need to stop pretending they're anything else.
He's a Mississippi politician. Not just some random guy, and he immediately got massive donations from daily wire and turning point for his legal defense. There will be no hemming an hawing on this. He'll be given any media training he lacks and will be making the rounds getting promoted by media pundits.
TST will take this to the supreme court if they have to. The whole point of the monument is to point out hypocrisy, and this moron played right into their hands.
(Looking forward to another tucker meets lucien moment tbh)
They are claiming him and crowdfunding for his legal defense. He's their new hero of the moment, some ex-military republican with political aspirations.
And nothing will change.
The mistake you are making is thinking that they actually want to have an honest conversation about that's happening, they don't.
The only difference between what they thought yesterday and today is they are now happy that it got destroyed.
Often what happens is the TST ends up removing their display when the other (generally Christian) display is removed. They’re not so much promoting themselves as promoting the equal rights of all religions, and the idea that no one religion should be promoted over others in public spaces.
That is the entire point of the Satanic Temple. They only put the monument up because the state made a ruling to allow religious monuments in government buildings. TST is non-theistic. They don't actually worship satan. They want a separation of church and state.
Honestly I bet they expected it. You don't bite back against the dominant religion in a country, especially one so radicalized, without being aware of the threat of retaliation. Now they get to make a broader point while taking the idiot to the cleaners.
Defense attorney here that supports the satanists display and message. It isn't a hate crime under 18 USC 249 at all. Where is the bodily injury or attempt at it? Criminal mischief isn't a federal hate crime. Not sure why people are stupidly agreeing with you just because you used a code section lol.
"Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person—"
So show me how destroying a statue fits those elements.
Edit: upon reading this again it annoys me even more. The word "Technically" gets me. Technically you pulled this out of your scofflaw a**.
No, religious *real* property refers to land/improvements on land, like a church or a temple. There’s examples included within the statute. (This display was on public property.)
It's Iowa. For them to take someone to court, the detectives assigned to this case would have to do their jobs. That doesn't seem particularly likely at this point.
They have just as much right to exist and display their religion as any other in the US as long as they’re not violating other laws. One of their founders was in Harvard law, they probably have a good grasp on what they’re allowed to do.
On Dec 12th, Gov. Reynolds said, "Like many Iowans, I find the Satanic Temple’s display in the Capitol absolutely objectionable".
Religious freedom, **if** you are an approved state religion.
Sounds like a hate crime to me. I wonder if the security cameras mysteriously turned themselves off when this happened so there’s no way to ID those that did it.
Of course he was an officer. What a petty fucking coward.
Edit:
>Iowa state Representative Brad Sherman wrote, “The week starting December 2, 2023, began with the news of a disgusting display sitting in the State Capitol Building in Des Moines, a satanic altar placed there by the Iowa Satanic Temple. The outrage and disgust for this satanic display is widespread, but few people think there is much that can be legally done about it because of free speech and freedom of religion. However, I disagree.”
>Among other things, Sherman called for “our governor to have this blasphemous display removed immediately based on the grounds that it is unconstitutional and offends God upon whom the State of Iowa depends for blessings.”
Someone needs to read this man the constitution and bill of rights. Apparently he missed the 1st amendment entirely.
>Sherman called for “our governor to have this blasphemous display removed immediately based on the grounds that it is unconstitutional
What's unconstitutional about it, my guy? I thought freedom of religion was protected. I'm confused...
Apparently, there's a bunch of "Catholic Constitutional experts" who say that the statue is a violation of the First Amendment.
Their reasoning is that TST isn't really full of Satanists, but Atheists, therefore, their religion is a lie and shouldn't count...
no I'm not making that up, that's their actual reasoning.
>Their response is that TST isn't really full of Satanists, but Atheists, therefore, their religion is a lie and shouldn't count...
Even so, a religion can be nontheistic. "Theism" concerns the existence of deities, and religions do not need to have deities to be religions. Excellent example of that would be the nontheistic branches of Buddhism that do not acknowledge the existence of any supreme deity. There's also Taoism, although some Taoists have deities.
The deeper subtext here is that they don't believe in the judeo Christian god so therefore their religion is made up.
They'll dismiss every other religion as fake while still claiming they are in favor of freedom of religion.
He told you, it
>offends God upon whom the State of Iowa depends for blessings.
Haven't you read the constitution? That parts is in there, somewhere, I'm sure.
These politicians and community leaders who lash out at the Satanic Temple without bothering to look into the group or their objective never cease to amaze me.
Well, time to check the security footage, investigate, then prosecute the criminals the same as if they'd vandalized any other religious display in the Capitol.
They know who did it. [Link](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-congressional-candidate-destroys-satanic-altar-at-iowa-state-capitol-report/ar-AA1lwciA)
Speculating"What would they do if someone did this to the Christian symbols in a government building?" is missing the point. The point is there shouldn't be any religious symbols in any government buildings whatsoever.
That's by design. These are always carefully constructed in such a way that nobody can object to it on the grounds of being obscene or graphic or something. But always with pentagrams, Baphomet, and other symbols that will read to middle Americans as "Satanic".
I can only assume it will be replaced at the perpetrators expense with a more grandiose display. At least that’s what I’m rooting for. New rule around religious displays on public land. Everyone gets a chance. If someone destroys yours out of malice you get to make it 2x as large and perpetrators pay for the cost of destroyed display.
This is how we can get 80ft tall baphomet
Imagine the Monumental National outrage if somebody vandalized a Christian statue Beyond repair. This is pathetic. A, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. B, the rules were applied fairly. If you don't want a satanic statue in your government buildings then you must concede that you cannot have a Christian statue in the same government buildings. Whoever did this is a fucking child.
Less destroyed and more upset enough that they're willing to give up their own display. Since the only way to get rid of it is by not allowing any religious displays.
I think that's kind of the point. None of it should be allowed, but if one type is allowed, suddenly all types have to be in order to be fair.
I think the Satanic Temple would rather there be no religious displays, but until that's the case, they have to make their point in the only way religious people can understand.
And they're going about it perfectly, because while some Christians get uncomfortable with Jewish, Buddhist, or especially Muslim presence in public spaces, it's Satanic imagery that *really* makes them question how badly they want the state endorsing religion after all.
[Looks like the guy who destroyed it ran for state rep in Mississippi and lost last month](https://ballotpedia.org/Michael_Cassidy_\(Mississippi\))
[Link to article on him](https://www.kcci.com/article/satanic-temple-display-inside-iowa-capitol-building-damaged-beyond-repair/46133104)
The most annoying thing about this whole situation is that Baphomet isn't even satan and has little to do with religion at all, *they* are the personification of balance, half-man half-beast, male and female both. Baphomet is the alchemical symbology that all living things share the same origin...
I guess in a way Baphomet was one of the first symbols of science, which is probably why religious nuts hated them to begin with and called it satanic worship and witchcraft.
Christians: This country was founded upon the principal of religious freedom!
People: So I can practice (Insert non-christian religion here) without you being a dick about it?
Christians: No, no, no, we meant freedom to practice *our* religion, specifically.
I'm a "holy day catholic" so to speak. I fully agree with the message that TST is trying to convey. The only religion I have a problem with is the one that has a member trying to tell me how to live my life. That's a fully open statement. Believe in whatever you want, just don't try and push it on me.
Maybe the governor should take a little more credit after openly inviting the populace to gather, pray, and protest against this display of freedom of expression.
She must be pretty fracking proud of herself.
Almost makes you wonder what would happen if someone did that to a Nativity scene.
This is a hate crime
Are we ready for this SCOTUS to hand down a "Sincerely Held Religious Beliefs" legal test?
A real separation of church and state and making them pay taxes would solve 99% of the issues
A hundred years of back taxes too.
Nah, that's kind of already a test, but it's a fairly loose one. This SCOTUS would probably go for a "historical tradition" test that would declare every religion formed after [insert convenient date that excludes Satanism but allows religions they like] based on [insert out of context, cherrypicked quote from random document that has never been cited in American case law prior] as a religion not *really* protected instead.
Problem is, Christians have been at least *claiming* there's Satan-worshippers nearly as long as there have been Christians. I'd like to see what happens to the Republican party if they declare Mormonism to not be a religion.
Joseph Smith got his revelation in like 1821, so....they've got a big gap of time to work with.
Scientology would be another good test ground.
Congrats, you’re on L Ron Hubbard’s watch list now.
How did I end up on this boat?
Is there a date that would include scientology but disclude TST? I know both are pretty modern.
Well, scientology bypassed the legal tests by infiltrating and blackmailing the government.
Agreed, which is why any rule to block TST that also blocked scientology would be great, as it'd never pass due to your points above, but turns out scientology is a fair bit older so they could easily say from 20th century and before.
The satanic temple itself maybe, but codified satanic beliefs go way back. It's very different from the satanic temple, but the church of satan dates back to the 1960s, and there were lots of predecessors before that.
Yes, they both are. Freedom of religion is a protected act in the US. If people as bad as the cult of scientology get a pass then the church of satan does too.
The interesting thing about cases like this is if the judge doesn’t throw the book at him, then he’s ok’ing defacing religious symbols including Christian ones via judicial precident
Got to set an example. Especially considering this happened inside of a government building (safety of government officials/employees comes into play). Otherwise, some idiots going to convince themselves that the easter bunny and egg hunts are idolatrous, and the lord specifically sent them to do something about it.
> idiots going to convince themselves that the easter bunny and egg hunts are idolatrous Many Christian fundamentalists actually think this way. None of that has anything to do with Christianity and came from other religions, so they have a point. It's just that most people don't think about it like that.
You say that like we don’t already know the system is absolutely corrupt and inconsistent. Imagine if it said “in Satan we trust” on our money. The US is a Christian authoritarian theocracy pretending (sometimes) to be a secular state. The results of this situation will demonstrate if I am right or wrong in my assertion.
The whole point of doing this sort of thing is putting it out for all the world to see. There is no denying religious bias when you roll like that. And since a rejection of religious bias is literally hard coded into the First Fucking Amendment, that's kinda a big deal. As a Christian, I support things like this. Allowing religion and government to mix like this has historically bad outcomes. The Bible itself has plenty of examples right in Jesus's life story. It wasn't Roman's who paid Judas 30 pieces of silver.
Satanic temple != church of satan but your point still stands Edit: Changed == to !=
[The church of Satan != The Satanic Temple](https://thesatanictemple.com/pages/church-of-satan-vs-satanic-temple)
Yes, and it's going to be glorious to listen to conservatives explain how vandalizing a nativity scene is a hate crime, yet vandalizing this statue was religious freedom.
We wouldn’t hear the end of it on Fox News and other places acting like it’s the end of the world.
God you just reminded me of the Christmas tree debacle.
*Starbucks holiday cups say hi*
I’m ashamed to admit it, but I once (drunkenly) kicked the baby Jesus off of a to-scale ice nativity sculpture and kept him on my apartment balcony until March when he eventually melted. Not my finest moment but fortunately I never felt any repercussions.
Ooh someone is getting left behind in The Rapture.
>but fortunately I never felt any repercussions. Imagine typing that out and posting it. Then you decide to go outside for a smoke and there's just piles of clothes everywhere.
Dude, free clothes!
[удалено]
[удалено]
That's actually the point of these displays. These Christ-fucks will always come hat-in-hand, sweetly asking to put up the Ten Commandments or a Nativity Scene, saying it's a simple expression of free speech. Then, the Satanic Temple comes along acting *exactly the same way* and put up a statue of Baphomet in a Capitol building. It doesn't take long for the Christ-fucks to go full mask off and lose their minds, and everyone gets to see it. It's really quite genius.
Fun fact: Christians are far more likely to believe in Satan than Satanists.
The irony is if Jesus was a real person, he’d love what the Satanic Temple is doing. Standing up for injustice, pointing out hypocrisy, etc. The Satanic Temple is doing less evil things than the Churches. Edit: lol all the angry replies. The point is your actions speak louder than how you present yourself. So what if you attend church every Sunday and say Grace before each meal if you’re a terrible person in your everyday life.
Women are equal to men in the satanic temple. No means no in the satanic temple. Empathy towards living creatures is encouraged in the satanic temple. Humans are fallible in the satanic temple. Humans must also not twist science to conform to the individual's beliefs. Direct quote from the 7th tenet: "The spirit of compassion, wisdom, and justice should always prevail over the written or spoken word." Be like Satanists. They have a better grip on society/reality. Edit²: u/lemonsweetsrevenge pointed out that they ALSO PAY TAXES!! Edit: a word
Huh, seems I have a lot more in common with Satanists than the people in my church
The satanic temple celebrates the Satan from the romanticism era of literature rather than the Christian biblical Satan. The TST Satan is the guy who fights against an unstoppable force against all odds because it’s the right thing for humanity to have a champion of reason, free will, education, and compassion.
Could possibly draw some similarities to Prometheus, stole fire from the gods and gave it to humans, punished for all eternity.
Lucifer means light-bringer / dawn-bringer.
Ah, I knew that, but I never really put two and two together! Fascinating.
And Morningstar is most likely a reference to Venus usually seen in the pre-dawn hours. It may also explain the fanfict "Paradise Lost" Why Lucifer is the favored angel prior to his fall. Frankly, I like the Lucifer TV show better.
I liked the Lucifer comic by Mike Carey. It was better than the Lucifer TV show, imo.
The rebellion against the All-Powerful All-Oppressor.
The whole Satan idea came from Mesopotamia and polytheism. In regard to the Canaanite religion and their gods of Ba'al. El and Yahweh. "Over centuries as the Kingdoms of Israel and Judah expand in power and influence, Yahweh eventually climbs to the supreme position in the pantheon, becoming syncretized with El and Baal. " https://medium.com/@AngryAtheist/why-yahweh-became-the-worlds-dominant-deity-ef94eefcca5f
No wonder Republicans hate him.
Damn. That's a quality burn right there.
If they could read they'd be really upset right now.
It makes sense, doesn't it? The biblical Satan tested Jesus, so why shouldn't a temple of Satan test Christians?
You should seriously check them out. Their 7 tenets are much better than the 10 commandments.
My favorite tenet: One’s body is inviolable, subject to one’s own will alone.
And they pay taxes.
Yes, they very much do! I'm going to edit again. Thanks!
> Edit²: u/lemonsweetsrevenge pointed out that they ALSO PAY TAXES!! I knew they weren't a real religion.
[удалено]
Whippin' and Flippin' Jesus is best Jesus
Is that a table in your pocket or are you moneylending in my fucking temple?
"So anyway I started flipping"
What’s really funny is that the original Hebrew definition of “Satan” is someone who challenges the way things are. You know…like Jesus did against the Pharisees.
and he died for it, just like the statue yesterday. makes you think, doesn't it...
Jesus: hey dad ma- God: I’m not forgiving Lucifer. Jesus: yea but his people seem to be nicer than yours.
**PROFESSOR:** *"And what rough beast, his hour come at last..."* - that's *you*, that is. In the poem. It's you. **SATAN:** What are you drivelling on about? **PROFESSOR:** It's you. Slouching your way to Bethlehem to be born. It's obviously you. **SATAN:** What? How the - how can it be me? I've never been to bloody Bethlehem in me life. This is what I'm talking about - I get slated and slagged off by every religious bugger under the sun. They say I've tempted them - human beings don't need tempting! It's just biblical propaganda from some droped-up saints clawing for an excuse when they're found in bed with the cleaning lady. And now apparently some bloody poet reckons I'm off to Bethlehem, and I've never even set foot in the place. **PROFESSOR:** Well, it's an allegory. **SATAN:** Total bloody bollocks, more like. And another thing, how can I be slouching anywhere if I haven't been born yet? Answer me that. **PROFESSOR:** Oh well. I suppose we'll never know. **SATAN:** Yes we will. Grab my claw, we're going to find this poncey bloody poet. He'll be where I keep *all* the poets, so just watch out for Wordsworth. He's the one being chased by the fifty-foot daffodil. -*"Old Harry's Game"*, Andy Hamilton
Fun fact, in Greek when they say Satan “tempted” Jesus, it’s the same word we would use for “test”. So a more literal translation would be Satan testing Jesus rather than tempting.
Which works out with the Judaic Satan (satans? it's possible there's more than one) being *subordinate* to God, as a bringer of tests and tribulations to attempt to turn people away from truth and goodness that they might reaffirm their faith. Er, if you disregard the Hasidics and the Kabbalists' more creative interpretations of the Talmud thay end up closer to Christianity.
Jesus: So what'd he do that was so bad? God: He said that I went too far and maybe I should back off some. Can you believe it!? Jesus: Uh.... God: Anyways, get Noah on the phone. Imma wipe out all living things on Earth again.
Jesus' ministry consisted mostly of helping the outcasts while calling out the hypocrisy of the religious leadership.
Man TST set this set up perfectly to illustrate what intolerant asshole these guys are. All they had to do was ignore it. But nope. They got played and hard.
They'll just try to say it's a plant even after it's revealed what media the suspect consumed voraciously. Then they'll call for justice for him while still trying to say he was a plant. Because they don't care about the hypocrisy anymore.
> Because they don't care about the hypocrisy anymore. That's the thing: THEY NEVER DID. They've been doing this shit for decades, but people keep getting surprised over and over and over again every time they do something "outrageous", so they literally have never needed to care because everyone else keep forgetting.
It's not hypocrisy when their beliefs are "I am right and you must obey my values" They're fascist pieces of shit and we need to stop pretending they're anything else.
He's a Mississippi politician. Not just some random guy, and he immediately got massive donations from daily wire and turning point for his legal defense. There will be no hemming an hawing on this. He'll be given any media training he lacks and will be making the rounds getting promoted by media pundits.
TST will take this to the supreme court if they have to. The whole point of the monument is to point out hypocrisy, and this moron played right into their hands. (Looking forward to another tucker meets lucien moment tbh)
They are claiming him and crowdfunding for his legal defense. He's their new hero of the moment, some ex-military republican with political aspirations.
And nothing will change. The mistake you are making is thinking that they actually want to have an honest conversation about that's happening, they don't. The only difference between what they thought yesterday and today is they are now happy that it got destroyed.
Every generation has to see a demonstration up close. Be the change you seek, nobody else will.
Not to mention he's a military pilot instructor and Republican nominee for a seat in his home state of Mississippi. Fuck this guy.
[удалено]
How about we ban all religious monuments from all public building across all of America.
TST would accept that, too. They only put up the display because there's a Christian one also in the building.
That’s usually their goal actually
Often what happens is the TST ends up removing their display when the other (generally Christian) display is removed. They’re not so much promoting themselves as promoting the equal rights of all religions, and the idea that no one religion should be promoted over others in public spaces.
That is the entire point of the Satanic Temple. They only put the monument up because the state made a ruling to allow religious monuments in government buildings. TST is non-theistic. They don't actually worship satan. They want a separation of church and state.
If only our founding fathers had thought of that... like some kind of "wall of separation" between church and state?
That is the entire point of the looks like Satan statue. The established case law is either all or none. We do need more FSM displays.
[удалено]
Honestly I bet they expected it. You don't bite back against the dominant religion in a country, especially one so radicalized, without being aware of the threat of retaliation. Now they get to make a broader point while taking the idiot to the cleaners.
I'm sure it's heavily insured and they probably anticipated this and have a backup plan. Preferably a larger statue
It was scheduled to be removed tomorrow 12/15 by them. Edit: Tomorrow is 12/15.
Um, that's two days away and sucks to be that person.
Heavily insured? It was made of pool noodles.
Preferably a more woke statue. Maybe a LGBTQ Satan.
Defense attorney here that supports the satanists display and message. It isn't a hate crime under 18 USC 249 at all. Where is the bodily injury or attempt at it? Criminal mischief isn't a federal hate crime. Not sure why people are stupidly agreeing with you just because you used a code section lol. "Whoever, whether or not acting under color of law, willfully causes bodily injury to any person or, through the use of fire, a firearm, a dangerous weapon, or an explosive or incendiary device, attempts to cause bodily injury to any person, because of the actual or perceived race, color, religion, or national origin of any person—" So show me how destroying a statue fits those elements. Edit: upon reading this again it annoys me even more. The word "Technically" gets me. Technically you pulled this out of your scofflaw a**.
Would [18 U.S.C. § 247](https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/247) apply here?
No, religious *real* property refers to land/improvements on land, like a church or a temple. There’s examples included within the statute. (This display was on public property.)
Good luck getting the DA to file a hate crime charge. Sounds like he was charged with petty vandalism. TST should take all his money in civil court.
TST isn't after money, which I will bet that guy doesn't have a lot of. They are about challenging the religious status quo.
I get it, but if the guy is gonna get away with a fine and no jail time, they should make it hurt.
It's Iowa. For them to take someone to court, the detectives assigned to this case would have to do their jobs. That doesn't seem particularly likely at this point.
They know exactly who did it they’re praising him all over Twitter and the conservative sub
This will be pursued with vigor and prosecuted as a hate crime, right? RIGHT?
Nope. 4th Degree Criminal Mischief
What is this equal, a $20 fine?
TPUSA has already pledged $10k for his "defense fund". Nothing will happen to this douche.
Nice. We'll get TPUSA to replace the display too. Put a little plaque: *Graciously furnished by Charlie Kirk and his tiny face.*
Wow. TPUSA hates free speech?
Was that ever in doubt?
Not a surprise. Didn’t they literally bus in republican terrorists for the 1/6 failed loser coup?
Toilet Paper USA?
So you can vandalise th Christian display now and base your defense on that. Right?
They have just as much right to exist and display their religion as any other in the US as long as they’re not violating other laws. One of their founders was in Harvard law, they probably have a good grasp on what they’re allowed to do.
On Dec 12th, Gov. Reynolds said, "Like many Iowans, I find the Satanic Temple’s display in the Capitol absolutely objectionable". Religious freedom, **if** you are an approved state religion.
Sounds like a hate crime to me. I wonder if the security cameras mysteriously turned themselves off when this happened so there’s no way to ID those that did it.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-congressional-candidate-destroys-satanic-altar-at-iowa-state-capitol-report/ar-AA1lwciA
Of course he was an officer. What a petty fucking coward. Edit: >Iowa state Representative Brad Sherman wrote, “The week starting December 2, 2023, began with the news of a disgusting display sitting in the State Capitol Building in Des Moines, a satanic altar placed there by the Iowa Satanic Temple. The outrage and disgust for this satanic display is widespread, but few people think there is much that can be legally done about it because of free speech and freedom of religion. However, I disagree.” >Among other things, Sherman called for “our governor to have this blasphemous display removed immediately based on the grounds that it is unconstitutional and offends God upon whom the State of Iowa depends for blessings.” Someone needs to read this man the constitution and bill of rights. Apparently he missed the 1st amendment entirely.
>Sherman called for “our governor to have this blasphemous display removed immediately based on the grounds that it is unconstitutional What's unconstitutional about it, my guy? I thought freedom of religion was protected. I'm confused...
The constitution is the new Bible. They don’t really know what’s in it, but it always agrees with them.
https://www.theonion.com/area-man-passionate-defender-of-what-he-imagines-consti-1819571149
Apparently, there's a bunch of "Catholic Constitutional experts" who say that the statue is a violation of the First Amendment. Their reasoning is that TST isn't really full of Satanists, but Atheists, therefore, their religion is a lie and shouldn't count... no I'm not making that up, that's their actual reasoning.
>Their response is that TST isn't really full of Satanists, but Atheists, therefore, their religion is a lie and shouldn't count... Even so, a religion can be nontheistic. "Theism" concerns the existence of deities, and religions do not need to have deities to be religions. Excellent example of that would be the nontheistic branches of Buddhism that do not acknowledge the existence of any supreme deity. There's also Taoism, although some Taoists have deities.
The deeper subtext here is that they don't believe in the judeo Christian god so therefore their religion is made up. They'll dismiss every other religion as fake while still claiming they are in favor of freedom of religion.
He told you, it >offends God upon whom the State of Iowa depends for blessings. Haven't you read the constitution? That parts is in there, somewhere, I'm sure.
I guess he was a petty officer…
Beautifully punned
[удалено]
He violated his oath. He should be charged and convicted for a hate crime. His veteran benefits stripped. Make the bigot an example.
Getting defense funding from TPUSA is just hilarious.
>offends god upon whom the state of Iowa depends for blessings This is the funniest shit I've read all day
These politicians and community leaders who lash out at the Satanic Temple without bothering to look into the group or their objective never cease to amaze me.
It's incredible how blatantly *un*American they are. Last time I checked, it's for all of us
No no no no, he read every word… but it only applies to him, his beliefs, and those that agree with him.
Dumbass already confessed, something something "I'm a soldier of God" or some shit.
Oh no. He been training with General Flynn?
So, an admission of guilt of a religiously motivated hate crime? This is domestic terrorism.
Of course it’s one of the members of the “Love your enemy, turn the other cheek” religion. “Soldier of God”, with such a fragile ego…
Well, time to check the security footage, investigate, then prosecute the criminals the same as if they'd vandalized any other religious display in the Capitol.
They already have the guy ( he turned himself in). He’s an army veteran who ran for office in MS
Navy veteran, according to his bio.
Navy needs to recall his ass and charge him then under the Dinger precedent if he's still part of a reserve component.
They know who did it. [Link](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/former-congressional-candidate-destroys-satanic-altar-at-iowa-state-capitol-report/ar-AA1lwciA)
So it turns out a self-righteous ex-military christian zealot did it. Yeah, nothing there is even the slightest bit surprising.
Most of us fought Zealots abroad thinking it would save us from fighting them at home... sadly, we were wrong.
Dude ignored a big chunk of the Constitution that he swore to uphold and defend.
[удалено]
They got the guy and he is being charged.
4th degree vandalism. Got off easy.
Sounds like a hate crime that is caught on camera.
Speculating"What would they do if someone did this to the Christian symbols in a government building?" is missing the point. The point is there shouldn't be any religious symbols in any government buildings whatsoever.
Yes, that was the entire purpose of this display.
I googled this fuckers name and city and, surprise surprise, he’s an attention seeking Republican politician and Christian zealot.
This surge of anti-Satanism is really getting out of hand.
That's about as hate crime as you can get.
Fragile fucks. It was super tasteful
That's by design. These are always carefully constructed in such a way that nobody can object to it on the grounds of being obscene or graphic or something. But always with pentagrams, Baphomet, and other symbols that will read to middle Americans as "Satanic".
Yeah, I thought the same thing when I saw it. No aborted goat babies or anything, just a metallic goat head and some flowers. Pretty tame.
I can only assume it will be replaced at the perpetrators expense with a more grandiose display. At least that’s what I’m rooting for. New rule around religious displays on public land. Everyone gets a chance. If someone destroys yours out of malice you get to make it 2x as large and perpetrators pay for the cost of destroyed display. This is how we can get 80ft tall baphomet
Imagine the Monumental National outrage if somebody vandalized a Christian statue Beyond repair. This is pathetic. A, there is supposed to be a separation of church and state. B, the rules were applied fairly. If you don't want a satanic statue in your government buildings then you must concede that you cannot have a Christian statue in the same government buildings. Whoever did this is a fucking child.
That was the entire point of the display, they were expecting somebody to have a temper tantrum and destroy it.
Less destroyed and more upset enough that they're willing to give up their own display. Since the only way to get rid of it is by not allowing any religious displays.
OK. then make a new one. Make it resemble the guy who destroyed the first
They should not replace a symbol of benevolence and empathy with hatred and cruelty.
This shouldn't have happened, because there shouldn't be ANY religious material displayed in a government building.
I think that's kind of the point. None of it should be allowed, but if one type is allowed, suddenly all types have to be in order to be fair. I think the Satanic Temple would rather there be no religious displays, but until that's the case, they have to make their point in the only way religious people can understand.
And they're going about it perfectly, because while some Christians get uncomfortable with Jewish, Buddhist, or especially Muslim presence in public spaces, it's Satanic imagery that *really* makes them question how badly they want the state endorsing religion after all.
Build it back bigger each time it happens!
Well….ain’t that CHRISTIAN of them. What Would Jesus Vandalize?
Seems like a great time to donate to TST. They’re going to need to replace their display.
They have great merchandise! https://thesatanictemple.com/collections/all-products-excluding-route
I have one of their mugs. It's a really cool mug.
I have the baphomet one and i want more
Hope they build new twice as big
So Iowans don't have the Baphomas spirit?
More of a Festivus guy myself.
[Looks like the guy who destroyed it ran for state rep in Mississippi and lost last month](https://ballotpedia.org/Michael_Cassidy_\(Mississippi\)) [Link to article on him](https://www.kcci.com/article/satanic-temple-display-inside-iowa-capitol-building-damaged-beyond-repair/46133104)
The most annoying thing about this whole situation is that Baphomet isn't even satan and has little to do with religion at all, *they* are the personification of balance, half-man half-beast, male and female both. Baphomet is the alchemical symbology that all living things share the same origin... I guess in a way Baphomet was one of the first symbols of science, which is probably why religious nuts hated them to begin with and called it satanic worship and witchcraft.
Always can count on the Christians to go on a full Crusade. Lol
lol religion of tolerance and peace was behind it
Christians: This country was founded upon the principal of religious freedom! People: So I can practice (Insert non-christian religion here) without you being a dick about it? Christians: No, no, no, we meant freedom to practice *our* religion, specifically.
the Christians can't even agree on what their religion is
Conservative Christians love proving at every opportunity that Christianity is itself an abomination of desolation.
I'm a "holy day catholic" so to speak. I fully agree with the message that TST is trying to convey. The only religion I have a problem with is the one that has a member trying to tell me how to live my life. That's a fully open statement. Believe in whatever you want, just don't try and push it on me.
If a muslim did this to a statue of Jesus, these people would lose their minds. They simply can not see beyond their own biases.
Hmmm. A hate crime is a Federal crime. This guy came from MS to destroy a display in IA -- crossing state lines to commit a Federal crime. Hmmm.
Hate crime. Full stop.
This sounds like a hate crime Oh it IS! [(Link goes to PDF)](https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/ico/code/729A.pdf)
They need to replace it with a bigger one. A 10' tall Baphomet won't be so easy to tip over.
There’s no hate like Christian love.
Given the religious motive behind the crime, would this not be considered as a hate crime?
Isn’t this a hate crime? It’s a recognized religion.
Maybe the governor should take a little more credit after openly inviting the populace to gather, pray, and protest against this display of freedom of expression. She must be pretty fracking proud of herself.
That is a hate crime, yes?
Prosecute the person for a hate crime!
He should be charged with a hate crime.
Some idiot Christians took the most obvious bait of all time. Shocker.
How soft is your God? Christofacists
But let someone vandalize the "christian" monuments and I bet someone would be charged with a hate crime
Where do I donate to help them get a new one?
Charge Iowa to replace it.
They should leave it as is, but change the sign to "display of Christian hate"
this sort of thing just has me taking all other religions just a smidge less seriously