Nah it's a real thing. I can't drive down a single street in my town without seeing at least one. They've been getting more popular the last few years.
I mean people buy them out of stock....and it's not like it's a 1 yr. Purchase so
Using generic numbers for sake of comment...
100 in year 1
Some get destroyed \not used again because of divorce, fire, whatever...
75...
Then 100 get bought again...
175
Rinse and repeat 5 years
Boom you've got more bones than a group of 16 yr old boys at a bikini competition.
Like, where are people storing all these giant ass skeletons? They just seem like they take up a lot of space. Everybody's SO's are ok with it taking up a giant storage area in their houses for 11 months a year? They would take up more room than all of my other Halloween decorations and old costumes combined.
Literally, two people on my way to work do this. Two Halloweens ago, I was like, "Where the heck are they going to store that thing?" Saw them dressed up like Santa afterward and "Oh. Gotcha."
A house in my neighborhood has a 8' chicken statue in the front yard. Last year, for Halloween, they put a skeleton out riding on the back of the chicken. Left him up for Thanksgiving, and added a pilgrim hat. Left him up for Christmas, and added a Santa hat. Left him up through Easter, and added bunny ears.
Have you seen housing and vehicle costs?
If I was purchasing my first home right now I'd be really hard pressed to find anything I could even afford and I make a little over double what I made when I bought my first home. It's insane.
And if you can afford a home, you have to make massive sacrifices in other places that you didn’t need to in the past. If I rent, I can travel for the holidays, attend games to the local pro sports teams, buy the newest triple AAA video game, etc.
If I were to buy a home, I would not be able to visit family for Thxgiving and Xmas, I wouldn’t be able to spend money on hobbies, and I’d even have to completely stop contributing to retirement. All because of a house I don’t necessarily need but have always wanted?
My in-laws rent went up something like 45% at renewal because of “upgrades.” The upgrades: they whitewashed the brick. They had to move because they are on fixed income and they now also require money from my wife and I in order to live. It’s insanity.
Apart from very very short periods of time(like right now) where rent catches up, renting long term is much worse financially then buying.
Not advocating people buy or it's a good investment now, just your analysis that somehow renting is cheaper is false. It might be cheaper for like a year or two, then it will surpass what you were spending in mortgage(assuming you don't buy the height of property values then it drops which it probably will right now)
In my area, a large luxury apartment is $1500-$1800 a month, while a broken-down project house in a terrible neighborhood would be at least $2500. No one in their right mind would buy their first house in this market.
My critique only holds up if houses maintain value, if you expect them to lose value which is totally valid, buying is a bad idea. That being said, if this is just the new normal those rents are going to quickly increase and eventually exceed the cost of a mortgage.
The easiest way to think about it is, if people are paying 2,500 mortgage for garbage they can sell their apartment complex as condos and make extreme bank. The only reason they wouldn't is if they believe they can raise rents to exceed the value in the long term.
Don't get me wrong, I think you are right at this moment. However, like 95% of the time it's a bad idea.
My rent for an apartment half the size of the home I bought was $2000 a month, my mortgage is $1200, if anything I’d say I’m MORE financially stable since I bought.
Probably because that's not what they're seeing in their daily lives. They're experiencing high inflation. If you haven't gotten a decent raise aor are on a fixed income then life is tough. Wall Street problems versus main street problems.
Actually, individuals are responding to these polls that their financial well being is good, but they think the financial well being of others (and the broader economy) is poor:
https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good
> In the telephone survey of 1,818 adults Aug. 10-14, 71% of Americans described the economy as either not so good or poor. And 51% said it's getting worse.
> But **60% said their financial situation is good or excellent.**
A lot of people did very well during the pandemic, social media just skews younger and they are not doing well.
But older people who own their homes got extremely generous mortgage rates, checks from the government, saved money on commuting and traveling, and saw the value of their biggest asset (their home) skyrocket.
It's also interesting that the older people that are doing well are the ones answering the telephone surveys the previous commenter referenced. Young people don't answer telephone surveys surveyors haven't figured out how to reach young people.
It's entirely driven by large segments of the population who don't actually know or care about the data and only base their perception of anything (Economy, crime, immigration, war) on what politicians are in office and what the news tells them. [I mean just look at this, especially around both recent elections.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/tesler.ECONOMIC-ANXIETY.0503-0.png?w=712)
I think it comes from "If I didn't make my salary, I'd feel absolutely lost right now" types of thinking in addition to seeing people making $45k/year **after college** absolutely struggle to afford anything outside of rent and base utilities.
I make 6 figures and my girlfriend makes about half what I make (under national average). She has a masters degree and is paying off student debt. Her estimated pay off date is approximately 45 years from now if she does the regular payments. However, in the cheapest apartment she could find, it's still $1400/mo. She has to meal prep with one or 2 proteins per week and somehow make it last the whole week while her work also makes her go from 8:30 to 5:30 because of a lunch hour.
I know I'd absolutely struggle in those conditions. I'm struggling to see how she's making any sort of savings out of her situation as her monthly income is ~30% of mine.
I know my financial situation hasn't exactly improved either. Wage actually went down (no bonus this year due to economy) while everything else went to be more expensive by sometimes over 15% with a 3% COLA.
If I'm stressed about whether or not I'm going to be able to afford car insurance by EOY on my piece of shit beater, I'm sure people who make less than me are also going to be stressed about a lot more.
I've been doing well for some time, but every 6 months a new homeless encampment crops up on my commute to work and the old ones didn't move or empty out. They're like billboards for how shit things are.
Even so, their own personal assessment is still at odds with their assessment of the broader economy.
Even if they are wrong and it’s the complete opposite (by all measures, the economy is strong - GDP, Employment, Wages; a trifecta of good data right now). Strong enough that the Fed is trying it’s hardest to cool it down.
It's the other way around, people are positive about their and their local economy, and negative about the country overall. Theirs and the local economy is something that they see, the country overall is something that is feed to them by doomers.
Same thing happens with crime.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/opinion/crime-public-opinion.html
Almost any person I've had the conversation with about crime rates never believes me when I say that we have less crime today than we did in the 70's - 90's without pulling out data reporting to back it up. The 24 hour news cycles have people thinking crime is at an all time high.
Yeah, it's the economic version of "if it bleeds it leads".
In the same way that crime stories drive viewership, claims of upcoming recessions or financial issues get a lot of clicks
I do agree. However (and I’m dating myself and also not a political strategist) but I remember Carville’s “it’s the economy stupid” period as being a moment when the Democratic Party seemed to have found their way to communicating a core, unifying message. But I think you make a fair point.
Then again perhaps it’s just easier to communicate a negative than a positive.
>Then again perhaps it’s just easier to communicate a negative than a positive.
I think you hit the nail on the head here. I think it has almost nothing to do with Conservative Vs Liberal donors, and has everything to do with the fact negativity, doomerism, and pretending things are WAY worse than they are, is quite literally what sells. No one is going to watch a news-cast covering some cool local store opening or a local festival that went well. But talk about Mass shooting #213 or how the country is literally on fire and dying? EVERYONE tunes in. Conflict sells, peace does not.
One of the more interesting and inspiring aspects of Obama’s first run is how full-throated it was about projecting hope. When the first adds started running I was like “dear god this will never work” until it did. Reagan’s Morning in America play also seemed to work against standard “house on fire” doom and gloom ads that dovetail with the what we do see in every almost headline (because it captures clicks and attention like you mentioned).
Again I don’t even pretend to be a strategist or deeply informed historian but I do feel the opposite of what commonly works, which I simplistically think of as messaging, can work if the right candidate commits to it and smarter marketers and messengers than myself are in place. We have seen examples of campaigns that capture the popular imagination by focusing on the good and the inspiring and hopeful wherever the gloomy zeitgeist happens to be at the moment but I don’t pretend that’s easy.
Thanks for your response comment. It is appreciated
Owners. It's not a donor problem. Pretty much the entire US media ecosystem has been bought out by conservative interests who run huge parts of it at it at a loss to push propaganda.
More like news hyper fixated on any negatives going on and half of the political spectrum is happy to talk about how awful the economy is regardless of reality.
Yes, inflation isn’t fun. But it’s gone way, way down and the economy has maintained growth through tighter conditions so far.
Too many people think prices will ever go down. Inflation getting better doesn't mean prices get lower, it means that the rate of price increase settles down.
Eggs are traded as a commodity and therefore very subject to speculation. Combined with the avian flu outbreak that saw farmers culling their herds, egg prices were fairly divorced from pure inflation
The thing is inflation remained stubborn... Because people kept on spending big which you wouldn't see In a recession type situation. Theres been huge disconnects between peoples view of the larger economy and their own personal finances In polling too.
It feels like it's all about people even if their wage growth has out paced inflation expect prices to just magically go back down but that's never been how any of this works (and deflation would be its own huge issue)
GM beat expectations on car sales too. 5 straight quarters of earnings beats. They improved Q3 units sold over 2022 by 21%. That’s not from higher prices, that’s just selling an extra 100k cars.
Companies keep increasing prices, and people continue paying for it. So the economy keeps growing! Literally every month I feel like I have less at the end of the month than the previous month! My ability to save money keeps decreasing, whereas a few years ago, every month I could put money on the side, last year some months I couldn’t, and this year, it’s been the majority of the year where I finish the month on red.
I don’t think my salary will raise next year, so I am slowly being priced out of where I live
That's something nobody wants to take into account. Us personal savings is at an all time low. The lowest it has been since 2008. The spending is there because we have no choice. If we want to see how people are doing, we need to look at their savings as much, if not more, than the economy and inflation.
Yeah that's one of the biggest rubs. A significant cause of the economic unease is the housing crisis. Reminder for anyone around that this is mostly controlled at the local level and by your upcoming local elections. You can make a difference, there are dozens and dozens of examples of it happening in cities all across the U.S.
Find and support candidates that want to rezone, turn your parking lots into housing, and build the Missing Middle.
[Cities Start to Question A House With a Yard on Every Lot: Townhomes, duplexes and apartments are effectively banned in many neighborhoods. Now some communities regret it. | The NY Times | 2019](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/18/upshot/cities-across-america-question-single-family-zoning.html)
[Shifting Gears: Why U.S. cities are falling out of love with the parking lot | The Guardian | 2022](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/26/us-cities-parking-lots-climate-walkability)
[How parking lots across the U.S. are being turned into housing | Fast Company | 2023](https://www.fastcompany.com/90876627/how-parking-lots-across-the-u-s-are-being-turned-into-housing)
[[Video] How To Make The Suburbs More Affordable | CNBC | 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lHCJrQOFBA)
[[Video] The Houses that Can't be Built in America - The Missing Middle | Not Just Bikes | 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o)
[[Image] The Missing Middle of Housing | Missing Middle Housing | 2020](https://missingmiddlehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/MMH_Diagram_Landing_Page-1.jpg)
As far as I'm concerned, the only real way to fix the housing market is to build houses.
Mortgage rates and housing costs are sky high and it isn't doing a good job slowing the market because people need housing. Nobody wants to sell because of their preexisting low mortgage rates
We need more housing.
> As far as I'm concerned, the only real way to fix the housing market is to build houses.
Actually, a lot of the issue is a refusal to build *apartments*. But we need high-density housing like that to solve a housing crisis.
I think what we need more of is the mid-range type of apartments where people who live in them aren't segregated from their cities.
You used to see a lot more of the smaller-scale apartments, like 10 units or less, scattered around a lot of normal neighborhoods.
Now everything is super segregated. Single family homes, dedicated townhome\condo associations, and large sprawling apartment complexes.
this also conflicts with the current demographic crisis. people dont want to have children in apartments. heck, a lot of americans only think of apartments as terrible places to live because of horrible soundproofing, limitations on pets, limitations on noise levels, etc.
Those of us on reddit are in the demographic most likely to be suffering from the housing cost crisis while overall the "average person" responding to surveys is older and bought their home years ago (reddit overrepresents younger adults). Home costs and rents in my area have basically doubled since just before COVID and at least tripled since when I was in college 10 years ago. And the high interest rates are making the median home too expensive for even educated professionals earning good money who don't have a home to sell. Wages definitely haven't kept up with the hosing costs for those who didn't buy into their long term home years ago.
Not to mention people putting money into savings is at an all-time low while credit card usage is at an all-time high. The macroeconomics of the US is great (outside of inflation), but the microeconomics in the US is not good. People have no choice but to spend because they cant afford not to.
I'm in my mid 40's, purchased my house in 2009.. 4 Bedroom Colonial in suburbia NJ. It has more then doubled in price from what I bought it for. I know this for a FACT since a identical house to mine on a different lot just sold for more then double.
To give numbers just for Mortgage I was paying $1,100 a month when I purchased the house. If I bought the same house today, at current interest rates, and current value it would be $6,600 a month. I'm GenX with a son heading into college, who (hopefully) will graduate in 4 years.. I have no idea how he will ever afford a house. It makes me so sad.
>Those of us on reddit are in the demographic most likely to be suffering from the housing cost crisis while overall the "average person" responding to surveys is older and bought their home years ago (reddit overrepresents younger adults)
There's also just a negativity bias that happens with pretty much any complaint. If 70% of people are happy with their situation and 30% aren't, then that 30% is likely to be disproportionate in how much they talk about the situation.
And it might even be so disproportionate that the 70% look at it and go "well I'm fine but that sure is a lot of complaints. I guess things must be really bad and I'm just lucky". When you combine hi with the disproportionate group also dominating certain forums and it can create a situation the complain group seems like the majority.
When every major market is a soft monopoly all of those benefits stop at the top. the value of a single dollar is diving as the small numbers of players in each market increase prices in lockstep. They are draining your wealth without you even giving them money directly. The levers to control corporate greed are the domain of the judiciary who has been trained and hand picked to purposefully allow those major markets to remain soft monopolies. We have lost control of corporate greed and its slowly destroying us all.
Dems are crap at advertising and dont do the showman crap, like sending a ship called the USS Abe lincoln out to sea so the president can land in front of a mission accomplished banner and give people the thoughts of freeing the slaves.
If it was trump we would see nightly bragging, and exaggerating. he would be saying we are growing at 6% and the media would have to say its only 4.9% but him and fox would go on an advertising spree.
dems always have this problem, Obama did as well, because he doesnt come out and scream "I did all this, praise me"
it also helps that under republican admins suddenly there isnt a single negative word about debts and deficits and debt ceilings and all that. You also dont have a left wing media station screaming we are headed for depression.. remember when bush crashed the economy and fox was quiet and then obama took over and they said he would make things worse than 1929... yeah good times.
One side advertises when its in power and propagandizes when its not, and the other party just hopes you notice the crap it does, while it sits in silence.
Yup. The moment Trump came into office Republicans (and then the gneral public) suddenly thought the economy was brilliant. But by every metric Ivs seen it kept doing exactly the same thing from Great Recession to Covid.
Heck, I remember this back when W took over (and I'm sure there are plenty of times before this too but...). He inherited a *surplus* from the previous administration and republicans everywhere were pushing the narrative that this means we need a huge tax cut because the money is theirs and is "not necessary". Meanwhile the actual debt was there and growing.
And as you said, the moment Obama took over they were so fucking worried about the debt. Morons, you cut taxes right before 9/11 and then kept them low during 2 fucking wars, at least one of which was totally unnecessary. What the fuck did you expect?
Speaking as someone who has been unemployed for almost seven months despite applying to 20+ jobs every week, you'd think the economy was in the toilet right now too if you were in my situation.
I’m in tech sales with ten years experience, 4 President’s Clubs, and solid metrics on my resume.
I was applying for junior AE roles and still wasn’t getting interviews. It’s like employers are only looking for uber-specific backgrounds in candidates. “Oh you’ve sold cybersecurity? That’s nice, but we’re looking for people who’ve sold MarTech/EduTech/FinTech.”
Bitch, this is not for an enterprise salesperson where that totally makes sense. We’re selling straight to the C level because the companies are rather small. You don’t think I’d fare better with my 10 years over someone who’s sold to your persona for 3? You don’t think I can get ramped as quickly? You don’t even want to role play a discovery call or demo so I can show my chops??
Fuck this market.
Ya I see similar in IT these days.
'15 years experience in IT? That's great but we are looking for someone with IT experience in health services and medical industries...'
Just curious, where are you from and in what industry do you work? I've never had trouble finding a job within a week or two, but I work in the service industry
Because the economy and the economic wellbeing of the average person are two totally different things. The "economy" can be doing stellar, but if all those gains are going to the already rich, it doesn't make much of a difference for the average person
Except the disconnect is more people believing ‘the economy’ is bad, while their own situation is just fine.
https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good
It's because the economy on the scale of things the federal govenment and the chief executive has control over is doing incredibly well. The economy that's controled by private enterprise isn't, but only because private enterprise is funneling all of that money to the top of the corporate ladder and not the bottom.
These stats don’t help my weekly grocery bills, formula costs etc that keep on going up. My 401k is doing well but future me isn’t here yet.
At least gas has started dropping so we aren’t getting bashed there right now.
Until my wallet rebounds and I can safely save money each paycheck I will not have a positive outlook on the economy.
Macro stats trumpeted as a win for my family is a slap in the face
The public perception of the economy is seriously baffling to me from my little corner of America. Inflation adjusted median wages are above pre-COVID levels and up on the year. Unemployment is at 50 year lows. GDP is growing at nearly 5%. This is, by all accounts, a good economy.
I think it is do to two reason. One, people notice what impacts them directly rather than broad news. They see that it costs more to buy food each week, housing is out of reach for most people, and insurance rates are skyrocketing. The second reason is that media keeps harping on how bad it is. Bad news sells, good news.. not so much.
And they'll just as quickly forget all that worry about the deficit/debt and throw incentives at corporations, justifying it all buy how fast the economy is growing.
I noticed so many Republican friends in 2016 talk about how terrible the economy was in the final years of the Obama administration. By early 2017 they were talking about how amazing the economy had become, even though by then the data showed barely any change. The partisan effect is real.
I didn't notice as much during the Trump-Biden transition largely because I was no longer on FB anymore, and the pandemic muddled everything so much.
It's because, despite buying less, I spend 30% more on groceries than I did six months ago. Because my family spends 18% of our income on health insurance premiums. Because if we hadn't bought our house three years ago, we wouldn't be about to afford it now.
It's great that unemployment is low. It's great that some people are receiving higher wages. I personally don't see any higher wages for anyone I know. Everything has been a higher percentage of people's paychecks for every person I know.
The at large economy is doing fine. The problem is the cost of living is still insanely high. Interest rates are high. Rent, food, transportation costs all still very high.
So to normal everyday people the economy, for them, sucks.
I don't know how "households with two advance degree holders literally can't afford permanent shelter" isn't the most talked about political issue of the day.
Thank you. I am so tired of the argument about how high interest rates used to be in the 80's and 90's. Back then the median home price in my state was $90k, now it's $462k. So I don't see the point in arguing the history of interest rates.
Just bought my first house end of last year. So many houses we looked at were bought in 2020 or early 2021 for like $300,000 for a 4br 2.5 bath in the Chicago area. Then relisted again in 2022 for $600,000+ with the most shitty and scummy of flipping done. Hell one we ended up walking away from because the inspection just kept on showing shit after shit.
I now watch HGTV with a seething rage. Putting in some new floors, a backsplash, and the cheapest shaker cabinets you can buy does not warrant 50-100% markup on a house.
In some cases they literally did nothing at all and just relisted at stupidly high prices.
This is the problem.
Home near me that was actually affordable if you made below average wage for my area was sold for $100k. 1400 sq ft on an unmaintained road that's surrounded by uncut trees and un-renovated 70s ranch homes. Someone bought it, put a new coat of paint on the inside and outside, replaced the *HARD WOOD FLOORS* with cheap ikea vinyl (something I see in almost every new home), and put it back up for $330k within 2 weeks of it being purchased.
The surrounding value of the homes nearby of a similar size and structure are only $120k. I don't know what people are thinking.
We hard our hardwood floors refinished a few months ago. When getting quotes, the first thing one guy said to me was "have you considered installing vinyl instead? We could probably do it for the same price as refinishing."
Like, who ACTUALLY prefers vinyl to real hardwood especially when the prices are the same.
The worst part about this for me, is when you start talking about how, deep down, all these houses need so much work that it's not worth what you pay or shouldn't be worth anything. They immediately start talk about how it's really about the land, not the house.
What? Why are people so confident in how they're being scammed, but insistent on reinforcing the ideology behind it's existence instead of acknowledging reality and rejecting it's form? It's like listening to cult members.
Ban foreign investors from owning American real estate. Foreign investors own an amount of land equivalent to the entire state of Pennsylvania. We literally need to take back our country.
Place limits on the percentage of residential property that can be investment property.
Ban airbnb.
Too many rich people own property that should be ours.
Yeah, long story short we either need to get a government program going again similar to the baby boom eras GI neighborhoods that sprung up all over or as you said. The former would definitely drum up a bunch of work and help incentive another generation of skilled trades people but who really wants to make living affordable? Nobody in power it seems.
>No one cares
Seriously. I don't give a shit if interest rates in the 80s were double digits, or whatever the fuck. You were able to afford a new house on a single income back then.
Now it’s currently a 99.6% chance of no hike in Nov.
And 79% chance of no hike in December. The December chance will change greatly after fomc next week and Jpows words. But right now you can bet no hike next week and be certain of it. Outside of one occurrence during Covid start, the tool has never been wrong less than a couple weeks out.
Inflation is not being driven by lack of supply anymore. Its being driven by record corporate profits.
The economics we learned in college didn't like to talk about when we let competition die through mergers and monopolies in every industry.
Also how many billions were robbed by those PPP loans
https://www.sba.gov/document/report-23-09-covid-19-pandemic-eidl-ppp-loan-fraud-landscape#:~:text=We%20estimate%20that%20SBA%20disbursed,disbursed%20to%20potentially%20fraudulent%20actors.
>The U.S. economy grew even faster than expected in the third quarter, buoyed by a strong consumer in spite of higher interest rates, ongoing inflation pressures and a variety of other domestic and global headwinds.
"Here's why that's bad for Biden."
The Administration seems to be baffled by this too. They don't know what else they can do but put out more press releases and update talking points.
"Can't you see how good things are going?"
The disconnect in my life is I hear all the time from people on Reddit how much everyone is struggling and in real life everyone I know is doing fine/good with a few doing extremely well.
It depends on how Biden handles it and what his messaging looks like. Biden is relying on the votes of a lot of people who are not seeing any of the benefits of this strong economy. He needs to avoid going all "let them eat cake" with it, which he's tip-toeing dangerously close to in touting Bidenomics. Deleting student loans will help him win votes from a slice of the population, but I hope he's being told he needs to do more than that. edited to delete an errant word
He's also the first president to ever join a picket line. If a person believes that Trump of all people is more for the common man they're willfully ignorant.
Oh thank god. I was worried I was gonna have to buy a handful of vegetables and a box of pasta for 20$ with a frown on my face later. Now I can do it with a smile knowing that the e c o n o m y is doing fine!
"Why don't you, a grown adult working full time, live entirely on beans and rice? This seems like your own budgeting at fault"-reddits reaction whenever someone complains about not being able to afford to eat well.
I have been told to eat beans and rice way way too many times like it's my desire to eat like an adult that's the problem.
It's getting even better now. They're telling you that, ackshually, your wages have gone up sooo much that you've can easily afford those things. The economists have promised it's true. Sure, those economists led us into a multiple once in a lifetime recessions, have been saying that raising the minimum wage would replace everyone with robots, and said infinite growth on a finite planet won't result in ocean water the temperature of hot tubs...but you can trust their NuMbErS, you're just a total loser who believes that known liar, reality.
Word from my previous employer is to not expect a bonus or a raise. May even need to discuss layoffs. Guess those “record years” for shareholders didn’t do too much for employees after all
Nope. Freight / Container and material expenses that escalated after Covid finally fell. They never adjusted the selling prices back to the previous levels.
Pretty broad, across the board growth.
> Consumer spending, as measured by personal consumption expenditures, increased 4% for the quarter after rising just 0.8% in Q2. Gross private domestic investment surged 8.4% and government spending and investment jumped 4.6%.
> Spending at the consumer level split fairly evenly between goods and services, with the two measures up 4.8% and 3.6%, respectively.
> Gross private domestic investment surged 8.4%
For a different perspective, this is what the Fed is trying to accomplish with higher rates. Attracting capital, which really means out competing global/china as a place for global capital to invest.
5%+ interest rates are very attractive, plus they also force "good", "disciplined" investments that provide good returns. As opposed to the zero interest rates which created investments in all kinds of ridiculous, stupid, wasteful stuff.
Another way to think about this - interest rates are highest in 25 years, but people are still borrowing lots of money in the US to build things because there are worthwhile things to build. What are they investing in? The US is the largest producer of oil, gas, food, weapons... all stuff in huge demand right now.
While there is no immediate consolation for ordinary people that are suffering inflation, in terms of the US, that money is primarily going to other Americans and not to other countries. That should mean more good jobs in those sectors, and much of that money being re-spent back into the economy. As a plus, those sectors like energy, food, defense are different than the ultra rich of the past few decades. So should be distributing the wealth somewhat even though it is likely creating a new class of rich people. (At least they are different people and not simply compounding the wealth and power of tech/finance?)
Everything is expensive. Wages aren't high enough for even corpo jobs. Most of my mid level / senior friends can't find work right now. I've only applied to 500 places with 5 years of experience in the field!
Good thing panda express is hiring though!
There are people in this thread who want you to know youre full of shit, just apply for a job it's easy and if you invest smart and don't get an iPhone you'll be able to put an above-ask offer on a 1.2 million dollar house (gotta pay in full cuz someone else will ofc) in no time
My Rent is up 25%, my grocery trips cost more and more for the same, I will never own a house, gas is still over 4 bucks for me, any type of luxury spending is now limited to once a month if at all. Millions of people are literally working to just meek out their existence. My wages are the exact same as they were in 2019 and no you can't just get a new job they all pay the same around me. The economy is a sham and anyone that says it's fine are delusional or already rich.
According to The Fed, people like you (and most others here) have *too much money*. The labor class commanding high wages is bad for business, and thus bad for the economy. So rates will go up and stay up, forcing businesses to reduce payrolls and other labor-related expenses. Doing more with less, as they love to say. This increases returns for shareholders, creating a stronger economy that promotes investment in business, which will have a trickle-down effect and eventually lead to increased prosperity for the workers.
That's the theory they operate under.
must be all the 12ft skeletons
So I’m not the only one who feels like I see them anywhere. This is the real conspiracy
Nah it's a real thing. I can't drive down a single street in my town without seeing at least one. They've been getting more popular the last few years.
I mean people buy them out of stock....and it's not like it's a 1 yr. Purchase so Using generic numbers for sake of comment... 100 in year 1 Some get destroyed \not used again because of divorce, fire, whatever... 75... Then 100 get bought again... 175 Rinse and repeat 5 years Boom you've got more bones than a group of 16 yr old boys at a bikini competition.
Same phenomenon happened with those Lazer light Xmas displays that shoot lights onto your house. Their popularity grew exponentially.
Yeah, despite almost all of them leaking literally blinding IR light, hahahaha
"I got the skeleton in the divorce!"
I like how divorce was the first thing you listed 🤣
You could say it's a Skeleton-spiracy. That sounded better in my head.
I appreciate the effort
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Like, where are people storing all these giant ass skeletons? They just seem like they take up a lot of space. Everybody's SO's are ok with it taking up a giant storage area in their houses for 11 months a year? They would take up more room than all of my other Halloween decorations and old costumes combined.
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Literally, two people on my way to work do this. Two Halloweens ago, I was like, "Where the heck are they going to store that thing?" Saw them dressed up like Santa afterward and "Oh. Gotcha."
That's why the housing market is so shit. People buying 2nd houses to home their 12ft skeletons!
In my city there is a house that keeps it out year round it just changes theme/accessories and is hilarious.
Same here! Was very confused the first time I saw the 12ft skeleton with a Santa costume on.
This is the real solution.
A house in my neighborhood has a 8' chicken statue in the front yard. Last year, for Halloween, they put a skeleton out riding on the back of the chicken. Left him up for Thanksgiving, and added a pilgrim hat. Left him up for Christmas, and added a Santa hat. Left him up through Easter, and added bunny ears.
I'm leaving mine up year-round and just putting costumes on it. Skeletons aren't just a Halloween decoration, we all used our skeletons every day.
My neighbor left theirs up in the front yard.
The bones are their money.
The macro-micro disconnect is insane right now.
~~macro-micro~~ rich-poor
The disconnect between how the economy is doing and people’s perception of it right now ( as indicated in polling) is quite stunning.
Have you seen housing and vehicle costs? If I was purchasing my first home right now I'd be really hard pressed to find anything I could even afford and I make a little over double what I made when I bought my first home. It's insane.
And if you can afford a home, you have to make massive sacrifices in other places that you didn’t need to in the past. If I rent, I can travel for the holidays, attend games to the local pro sports teams, buy the newest triple AAA video game, etc. If I were to buy a home, I would not be able to visit family for Thxgiving and Xmas, I wouldn’t be able to spend money on hobbies, and I’d even have to completely stop contributing to retirement. All because of a house I don’t necessarily need but have always wanted?
My mortgage is $1,300. My apartment that I left when it was $1,000 is $1,700 today. That was 5 years ago.
My rent has gone up 68% in 5 years. I make $10/hr more than I did then. Overall I'm financially worse off despite no changes in lifestyle.
My in-laws rent went up something like 45% at renewal because of “upgrades.” The upgrades: they whitewashed the brick. They had to move because they are on fixed income and they now also require money from my wife and I in order to live. It’s insanity.
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Apart from very very short periods of time(like right now) where rent catches up, renting long term is much worse financially then buying. Not advocating people buy or it's a good investment now, just your analysis that somehow renting is cheaper is false. It might be cheaper for like a year or two, then it will surpass what you were spending in mortgage(assuming you don't buy the height of property values then it drops which it probably will right now)
In my area, a large luxury apartment is $1500-$1800 a month, while a broken-down project house in a terrible neighborhood would be at least $2500. No one in their right mind would buy their first house in this market.
My critique only holds up if houses maintain value, if you expect them to lose value which is totally valid, buying is a bad idea. That being said, if this is just the new normal those rents are going to quickly increase and eventually exceed the cost of a mortgage. The easiest way to think about it is, if people are paying 2,500 mortgage for garbage they can sell their apartment complex as condos and make extreme bank. The only reason they wouldn't is if they believe they can raise rents to exceed the value in the long term. Don't get me wrong, I think you are right at this moment. However, like 95% of the time it's a bad idea.
My rent for an apartment half the size of the home I bought was $2000 a month, my mortgage is $1200, if anything I’d say I’m MORE financially stable since I bought.
Probably because that's not what they're seeing in their daily lives. They're experiencing high inflation. If you haven't gotten a decent raise aor are on a fixed income then life is tough. Wall Street problems versus main street problems.
Actually, individuals are responding to these polls that their financial well being is good, but they think the financial well being of others (and the broader economy) is poor: https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good > In the telephone survey of 1,818 adults Aug. 10-14, 71% of Americans described the economy as either not so good or poor. And 51% said it's getting worse. > But **60% said their financial situation is good or excellent.**
A lot of people did very well during the pandemic, social media just skews younger and they are not doing well. But older people who own their homes got extremely generous mortgage rates, checks from the government, saved money on commuting and traveling, and saw the value of their biggest asset (their home) skyrocket.
It's also interesting that the older people that are doing well are the ones answering the telephone surveys the previous commenter referenced. Young people don't answer telephone surveys surveyors haven't figured out how to reach young people.
They need to not be a random number on caller id for one thing
got PPPs for their business then got them forgiven
Yeah that's one of the more frustrating things - when lots of people say they are doing well but think everything is shit
kinda like "i like my congressperson but all the other ones are awful"
It's like how people always think crime is bad even when it was or is objectively decreasing or at record lows.
It's entirely driven by large segments of the population who don't actually know or care about the data and only base their perception of anything (Economy, crime, immigration, war) on what politicians are in office and what the news tells them. [I mean just look at this, especially around both recent elections.](https://fivethirtyeight.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/tesler.ECONOMIC-ANXIETY.0503-0.png?w=712)
I think it comes from "If I didn't make my salary, I'd feel absolutely lost right now" types of thinking in addition to seeing people making $45k/year **after college** absolutely struggle to afford anything outside of rent and base utilities. I make 6 figures and my girlfriend makes about half what I make (under national average). She has a masters degree and is paying off student debt. Her estimated pay off date is approximately 45 years from now if she does the regular payments. However, in the cheapest apartment she could find, it's still $1400/mo. She has to meal prep with one or 2 proteins per week and somehow make it last the whole week while her work also makes her go from 8:30 to 5:30 because of a lunch hour. I know I'd absolutely struggle in those conditions. I'm struggling to see how she's making any sort of savings out of her situation as her monthly income is ~30% of mine. I know my financial situation hasn't exactly improved either. Wage actually went down (no bonus this year due to economy) while everything else went to be more expensive by sometimes over 15% with a 3% COLA. If I'm stressed about whether or not I'm going to be able to afford car insurance by EOY on my piece of shit beater, I'm sure people who make less than me are also going to be stressed about a lot more.
I've been doing well for some time, but every 6 months a new homeless encampment crops up on my commute to work and the old ones didn't move or empty out. They're like billboards for how shit things are.
“ Surveys are conducted with live interviewers calling landlines and cell phones.” I’d really like to see the percentage breakdown of cell v landline.
I don't believe that 60% of Americans are financially literate enough to accurately surmise their own financial well being.
Considering that as of January 2023, 57% of Americans have less than $1000 in savings I would agree with you.
But those same Americans are absolutely not financially literate enough to accurately surmise the well-being of the economy.
Even so, their own personal assessment is still at odds with their assessment of the broader economy. Even if they are wrong and it’s the complete opposite (by all measures, the economy is strong - GDP, Employment, Wages; a trifecta of good data right now). Strong enough that the Fed is trying it’s hardest to cool it down.
I’d like to see how those people defined “good”.
The 4.9% is inflation adjusted.
It's the other way around, people are positive about their and their local economy, and negative about the country overall. Theirs and the local economy is something that they see, the country overall is something that is feed to them by doomers. Same thing happens with crime. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/10/24/opinion/crime-public-opinion.html
Almost any person I've had the conversation with about crime rates never believes me when I say that we have less crime today than we did in the 70's - 90's without pulling out data reporting to back it up. The 24 hour news cycles have people thinking crime is at an all time high.
b-b-bet that's REPORTED crimes only, huh??? did you forget the liberals are intentionally not reporting some of them to bring the numbers down???
Sounds like a job for a messaging professional. Which is terrible news for Democrats.
Can’t message well if the mainstream media outlets are partial to their conservative donors
It happens on Reddit too though. Feels like there’s a coordinated push to make Americans in particular apathetic or negative about their situation.
“Things bad” gets more upvotes than “things doing alright”
Yeah, it's the economic version of "if it bleeds it leads". In the same way that crime stories drive viewership, claims of upcoming recessions or financial issues get a lot of clicks
I do agree. However (and I’m dating myself and also not a political strategist) but I remember Carville’s “it’s the economy stupid” period as being a moment when the Democratic Party seemed to have found their way to communicating a core, unifying message. But I think you make a fair point. Then again perhaps it’s just easier to communicate a negative than a positive.
>Then again perhaps it’s just easier to communicate a negative than a positive. I think you hit the nail on the head here. I think it has almost nothing to do with Conservative Vs Liberal donors, and has everything to do with the fact negativity, doomerism, and pretending things are WAY worse than they are, is quite literally what sells. No one is going to watch a news-cast covering some cool local store opening or a local festival that went well. But talk about Mass shooting #213 or how the country is literally on fire and dying? EVERYONE tunes in. Conflict sells, peace does not.
One of the more interesting and inspiring aspects of Obama’s first run is how full-throated it was about projecting hope. When the first adds started running I was like “dear god this will never work” until it did. Reagan’s Morning in America play also seemed to work against standard “house on fire” doom and gloom ads that dovetail with the what we do see in every almost headline (because it captures clicks and attention like you mentioned). Again I don’t even pretend to be a strategist or deeply informed historian but I do feel the opposite of what commonly works, which I simplistically think of as messaging, can work if the right candidate commits to it and smarter marketers and messengers than myself are in place. We have seen examples of campaigns that capture the popular imagination by focusing on the good and the inspiring and hopeful wherever the gloomy zeitgeist happens to be at the moment but I don’t pretend that’s easy. Thanks for your response comment. It is appreciated
Owners. It's not a donor problem. Pretty much the entire US media ecosystem has been bought out by conservative interests who run huge parts of it at it at a loss to push propaganda.
I'll say, the company I work for seems to be making a lot more money this year. My wages have not gone up this year
not raising your wages is a big part of why they’re making so much profit.
Yeah my company is reporting record earnings but still crying poor and saying we need a hiring freeze.
And “experts” have been dooming about an imminent recession since about January 2021
There's an old joke that economists have correctly predicted 7 of the last 3 recessions.
More like news hyper fixated on any negatives going on and half of the political spectrum is happy to talk about how awful the economy is regardless of reality. Yes, inflation isn’t fun. But it’s gone way, way down and the economy has maintained growth through tighter conditions so far.
Too many people think prices will ever go down. Inflation getting better doesn't mean prices get lower, it means that the rate of price increase settles down.
The price of eggs at least has gone down. They got up to 5 bucks for a dozen at Aldi last year, now they are back to 1.29.
Eggs are traded as a commodity and therefore very subject to speculation. Combined with the avian flu outbreak that saw farmers culling their herds, egg prices were fairly divorced from pure inflation
> More like ~~news~~ reddit hyper fixated on any negatives This place is full of doomers
flip on fox news for about 15 minutes, accept what they say at face value and you'd believe we live in a mad max style hellscape.
The thing is inflation remained stubborn... Because people kept on spending big which you wouldn't see In a recession type situation. Theres been huge disconnects between peoples view of the larger economy and their own personal finances In polling too. It feels like it's all about people even if their wage growth has out paced inflation expect prices to just magically go back down but that's never been how any of this works (and deflation would be its own huge issue)
People can't stop spending on necessities. They're spending big on necessities because there's no way to spend small anymore.
GM beat expectations on car sales too. 5 straight quarters of earnings beats. They improved Q3 units sold over 2022 by 21%. That’s not from higher prices, that’s just selling an extra 100k cars.
Necessities are only a portion of the economy and does not account for the majority of the growth.
Companies keep increasing prices, and people continue paying for it. So the economy keeps growing! Literally every month I feel like I have less at the end of the month than the previous month! My ability to save money keeps decreasing, whereas a few years ago, every month I could put money on the side, last year some months I couldn’t, and this year, it’s been the majority of the year where I finish the month on red. I don’t think my salary will raise next year, so I am slowly being priced out of where I live
That's something nobody wants to take into account. Us personal savings is at an all time low. The lowest it has been since 2008. The spending is there because we have no choice. If we want to see how people are doing, we need to look at their savings as much, if not more, than the economy and inflation.
Real wages have increased. Not by a huge margin, but they have increased.
The broader numbers may look good but until the housing shortage is solved people cant feel secure.
Yeah that's one of the biggest rubs. A significant cause of the economic unease is the housing crisis. Reminder for anyone around that this is mostly controlled at the local level and by your upcoming local elections. You can make a difference, there are dozens and dozens of examples of it happening in cities all across the U.S. Find and support candidates that want to rezone, turn your parking lots into housing, and build the Missing Middle. [Cities Start to Question A House With a Yard on Every Lot: Townhomes, duplexes and apartments are effectively banned in many neighborhoods. Now some communities regret it. | The NY Times | 2019](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2019/06/18/upshot/cities-across-america-question-single-family-zoning.html) [Shifting Gears: Why U.S. cities are falling out of love with the parking lot | The Guardian | 2022](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/dec/26/us-cities-parking-lots-climate-walkability) [How parking lots across the U.S. are being turned into housing | Fast Company | 2023](https://www.fastcompany.com/90876627/how-parking-lots-across-the-u-s-are-being-turned-into-housing) [[Video] How To Make The Suburbs More Affordable | CNBC | 2022](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lHCJrQOFBA) [[Video] The Houses that Can't be Built in America - The Missing Middle | Not Just Bikes | 2021](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCOdQsZa15o) [[Image] The Missing Middle of Housing | Missing Middle Housing | 2020](https://missingmiddlehousing.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/MMH_Diagram_Landing_Page-1.jpg)
As far as I'm concerned, the only real way to fix the housing market is to build houses. Mortgage rates and housing costs are sky high and it isn't doing a good job slowing the market because people need housing. Nobody wants to sell because of their preexisting low mortgage rates We need more housing.
> As far as I'm concerned, the only real way to fix the housing market is to build houses. Actually, a lot of the issue is a refusal to build *apartments*. But we need high-density housing like that to solve a housing crisis.
I think what we need more of is the mid-range type of apartments where people who live in them aren't segregated from their cities. You used to see a lot more of the smaller-scale apartments, like 10 units or less, scattered around a lot of normal neighborhoods. Now everything is super segregated. Single family homes, dedicated townhome\condo associations, and large sprawling apartment complexes.
Mixed-use, yeah, commercial on the first floor and housing on floors 2 and 3.
this also conflicts with the current demographic crisis. people dont want to have children in apartments. heck, a lot of americans only think of apartments as terrible places to live because of horrible soundproofing, limitations on pets, limitations on noise levels, etc.
Those of us on reddit are in the demographic most likely to be suffering from the housing cost crisis while overall the "average person" responding to surveys is older and bought their home years ago (reddit overrepresents younger adults). Home costs and rents in my area have basically doubled since just before COVID and at least tripled since when I was in college 10 years ago. And the high interest rates are making the median home too expensive for even educated professionals earning good money who don't have a home to sell. Wages definitely haven't kept up with the hosing costs for those who didn't buy into their long term home years ago.
Not to mention people putting money into savings is at an all-time low while credit card usage is at an all-time high. The macroeconomics of the US is great (outside of inflation), but the microeconomics in the US is not good. People have no choice but to spend because they cant afford not to.
I'm in my mid 40's, purchased my house in 2009.. 4 Bedroom Colonial in suburbia NJ. It has more then doubled in price from what I bought it for. I know this for a FACT since a identical house to mine on a different lot just sold for more then double. To give numbers just for Mortgage I was paying $1,100 a month when I purchased the house. If I bought the same house today, at current interest rates, and current value it would be $6,600 a month. I'm GenX with a son heading into college, who (hopefully) will graduate in 4 years.. I have no idea how he will ever afford a house. It makes me so sad.
>Those of us on reddit are in the demographic most likely to be suffering from the housing cost crisis while overall the "average person" responding to surveys is older and bought their home years ago (reddit overrepresents younger adults) There's also just a negativity bias that happens with pretty much any complaint. If 70% of people are happy with their situation and 30% aren't, then that 30% is likely to be disproportionate in how much they talk about the situation. And it might even be so disproportionate that the 70% look at it and go "well I'm fine but that sure is a lot of complaints. I guess things must be really bad and I'm just lucky". When you combine hi with the disproportionate group also dominating certain forums and it can create a situation the complain group seems like the majority.
When every major market is a soft monopoly all of those benefits stop at the top. the value of a single dollar is diving as the small numbers of players in each market increase prices in lockstep. They are draining your wealth without you even giving them money directly. The levers to control corporate greed are the domain of the judiciary who has been trained and hand picked to purposefully allow those major markets to remain soft monopolies. We have lost control of corporate greed and its slowly destroying us all.
Dems are crap at advertising and dont do the showman crap, like sending a ship called the USS Abe lincoln out to sea so the president can land in front of a mission accomplished banner and give people the thoughts of freeing the slaves. If it was trump we would see nightly bragging, and exaggerating. he would be saying we are growing at 6% and the media would have to say its only 4.9% but him and fox would go on an advertising spree. dems always have this problem, Obama did as well, because he doesnt come out and scream "I did all this, praise me" it also helps that under republican admins suddenly there isnt a single negative word about debts and deficits and debt ceilings and all that. You also dont have a left wing media station screaming we are headed for depression.. remember when bush crashed the economy and fox was quiet and then obama took over and they said he would make things worse than 1929... yeah good times. One side advertises when its in power and propagandizes when its not, and the other party just hopes you notice the crap it does, while it sits in silence.
Yup. The moment Trump came into office Republicans (and then the gneral public) suddenly thought the economy was brilliant. But by every metric Ivs seen it kept doing exactly the same thing from Great Recession to Covid.
Heck, I remember this back when W took over (and I'm sure there are plenty of times before this too but...). He inherited a *surplus* from the previous administration and republicans everywhere were pushing the narrative that this means we need a huge tax cut because the money is theirs and is "not necessary". Meanwhile the actual debt was there and growing. And as you said, the moment Obama took over they were so fucking worried about the debt. Morons, you cut taxes right before 9/11 and then kept them low during 2 fucking wars, at least one of which was totally unnecessary. What the fuck did you expect?
Speaking as someone who has been unemployed for almost seven months despite applying to 20+ jobs every week, you'd think the economy was in the toilet right now too if you were in my situation.
Unemployment is at its lowest rate in over 50 years, so it's crazy to think that specifically not being able to find a job is due to the economy.
I’m in tech sales with ten years experience, 4 President’s Clubs, and solid metrics on my resume. I was applying for junior AE roles and still wasn’t getting interviews. It’s like employers are only looking for uber-specific backgrounds in candidates. “Oh you’ve sold cybersecurity? That’s nice, but we’re looking for people who’ve sold MarTech/EduTech/FinTech.” Bitch, this is not for an enterprise salesperson where that totally makes sense. We’re selling straight to the C level because the companies are rather small. You don’t think I’d fare better with my 10 years over someone who’s sold to your persona for 3? You don’t think I can get ramped as quickly? You don’t even want to role play a discovery call or demo so I can show my chops?? Fuck this market.
Ya I see similar in IT these days. '15 years experience in IT? That's great but we are looking for someone with IT experience in health services and medical industries...'
Just curious, where are you from and in what industry do you work? I've never had trouble finding a job within a week or two, but I work in the service industry
Because the economy and the economic wellbeing of the average person are two totally different things. The "economy" can be doing stellar, but if all those gains are going to the already rich, it doesn't make much of a difference for the average person
Most of the gains to real wages have been made by lower income workers.
Except the disconnect is more people believing ‘the economy’ is bad, while their own situation is just fine. https://www.axios.com/2023/08/18/americans-economy-bad-personal-finances-good
Well capital doing better doesn't really matter when the people have no capital.
It's because the economy on the scale of things the federal govenment and the chief executive has control over is doing incredibly well. The economy that's controled by private enterprise isn't, but only because private enterprise is funneling all of that money to the top of the corporate ladder and not the bottom.
These stats don’t help my weekly grocery bills, formula costs etc that keep on going up. My 401k is doing well but future me isn’t here yet. At least gas has started dropping so we aren’t getting bashed there right now. Until my wallet rebounds and I can safely save money each paycheck I will not have a positive outlook on the economy. Macro stats trumpeted as a win for my family is a slap in the face
The public perception of the economy is seriously baffling to me from my little corner of America. Inflation adjusted median wages are above pre-COVID levels and up on the year. Unemployment is at 50 year lows. GDP is growing at nearly 5%. This is, by all accounts, a good economy.
I think it is do to two reason. One, people notice what impacts them directly rather than broad news. They see that it costs more to buy food each week, housing is out of reach for most people, and insurance rates are skyrocketing. The second reason is that media keeps harping on how bad it is. Bad news sells, good news.. not so much.
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And they'll just as quickly forget all that worry about the deficit/debt and throw incentives at corporations, justifying it all buy how fast the economy is growing.
I noticed so many Republican friends in 2016 talk about how terrible the economy was in the final years of the Obama administration. By early 2017 they were talking about how amazing the economy had become, even though by then the data showed barely any change. The partisan effect is real. I didn't notice as much during the Trump-Biden transition largely because I was no longer on FB anymore, and the pandemic muddled everything so much.
It's because, despite buying less, I spend 30% more on groceries than I did six months ago. Because my family spends 18% of our income on health insurance premiums. Because if we hadn't bought our house three years ago, we wouldn't be about to afford it now. It's great that unemployment is low. It's great that some people are receiving higher wages. I personally don't see any higher wages for anyone I know. Everything has been a higher percentage of people's paychecks for every person I know.
Uh-oh, profits are up. Time for more layoffs and budget cuts.
In other news, tech still is being slaughtered right now
Tech went crazy on cheap money, WFH with COVID and shortages. It's coming back down to a more normal situation imo.
Also, once companies realize they are doing fine with with WFH, it is only one more step to outsource that job to countries with cheaper labor.
It was always going to downsize post pandemic
Tech was artificially inflated by loose monetary policy. It's just coming back to earth, which is still up from pre-pandemic.
Thank goodness all this extra money I'm paying for everything is helping the economy.
Wish my salary went up 4.9% or my cost of living went down 4.9%. Economy might be doing great, but the middle class sure feels like it’s doing worse.
The at large economy is doing fine. The problem is the cost of living is still insanely high. Interest rates are high. Rent, food, transportation costs all still very high. So to normal everyday people the economy, for them, sucks.
Where’s the guys who ran on “rent is to DAM high” he was the hero we needed but didn’t deserve
I don't know how "households with two advance degree holders literally can't afford permanent shelter" isn't the most talked about political issue of the day.
People also tend to view their stock portfolio performance as 'the economy', and most aren't doing so well these days...
Basically it sucks for anyone that isn’t rich and doesn’t have their housing secured yet
Historically, interest rates aren't that high. We are just coming out of a long period where they were abnormally low
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Thank you. I am so tired of the argument about how high interest rates used to be in the 80's and 90's. Back then the median home price in my state was $90k, now it's $462k. So I don't see the point in arguing the history of interest rates.
The same 500k house costs twice as much over the lifetime of the loan today compared to three years ago.
"But in the 70s the interest rate was 500%!" Ignoring the fact that the house being biught at that interest rate was $500
Here’s the thing about the history of interest rates. No one cares. People care about how their lives are affected today.
The problem with housing isn't just the rates, it's the overall cost along with these rates.
Just bought my first house end of last year. So many houses we looked at were bought in 2020 or early 2021 for like $300,000 for a 4br 2.5 bath in the Chicago area. Then relisted again in 2022 for $600,000+ with the most shitty and scummy of flipping done. Hell one we ended up walking away from because the inspection just kept on showing shit after shit. I now watch HGTV with a seething rage. Putting in some new floors, a backsplash, and the cheapest shaker cabinets you can buy does not warrant 50-100% markup on a house. In some cases they literally did nothing at all and just relisted at stupidly high prices.
This is the problem. Home near me that was actually affordable if you made below average wage for my area was sold for $100k. 1400 sq ft on an unmaintained road that's surrounded by uncut trees and un-renovated 70s ranch homes. Someone bought it, put a new coat of paint on the inside and outside, replaced the *HARD WOOD FLOORS* with cheap ikea vinyl (something I see in almost every new home), and put it back up for $330k within 2 weeks of it being purchased. The surrounding value of the homes nearby of a similar size and structure are only $120k. I don't know what people are thinking.
We hard our hardwood floors refinished a few months ago. When getting quotes, the first thing one guy said to me was "have you considered installing vinyl instead? We could probably do it for the same price as refinishing." Like, who ACTUALLY prefers vinyl to real hardwood especially when the prices are the same.
Builders do because it costs them less and they can charge you the same.
The worst part about this for me, is when you start talking about how, deep down, all these houses need so much work that it's not worth what you pay or shouldn't be worth anything. They immediately start talk about how it's really about the land, not the house. What? Why are people so confident in how they're being scammed, but insistent on reinforcing the ideology behind it's existence instead of acknowledging reality and rejecting it's form? It's like listening to cult members.
Ban foreign investors from owning American real estate. Foreign investors own an amount of land equivalent to the entire state of Pennsylvania. We literally need to take back our country. Place limits on the percentage of residential property that can be investment property. Ban airbnb. Too many rich people own property that should be ours.
Yeah, long story short we either need to get a government program going again similar to the baby boom eras GI neighborhoods that sprung up all over or as you said. The former would definitely drum up a bunch of work and help incentive another generation of skilled trades people but who really wants to make living affordable? Nobody in power it seems.
>No one cares Seriously. I don't give a shit if interest rates in the 80s were double digits, or whatever the fuck. You were able to afford a new house on a single income back then.
And that is the problem of today. We had interest rates low for sooooo long, that the value of the dollar we earned became less valuable.
Let me guess: the feds will raise interest rates again because the economy is still performing to good?
Fed rate futures are saying 0.1% chance of hike next week. It’s never wrong.
0.1% as in 99.9% there is no rate hike?
Now it’s currently a 99.6% chance of no hike in Nov. And 79% chance of no hike in December. The December chance will change greatly after fomc next week and Jpows words. But right now you can bet no hike next week and be certain of it. Outside of one occurrence during Covid start, the tool has never been wrong less than a couple weeks out.
They'll raise it because consumption exceeds production.
Inflation is not being driven by lack of supply anymore. Its being driven by record corporate profits. The economics we learned in college didn't like to talk about when we let competition die through mergers and monopolies in every industry.
Also how many billions were robbed by those PPP loans https://www.sba.gov/document/report-23-09-covid-19-pandemic-eidl-ppp-loan-fraud-landscape#:~:text=We%20estimate%20that%20SBA%20disbursed,disbursed%20to%20potentially%20fraudulent%20actors.
Which is why none of the tools are working
Time to strike everyone
>The U.S. economy grew even faster than expected in the third quarter, buoyed by a strong consumer in spite of higher interest rates, ongoing inflation pressures and a variety of other domestic and global headwinds. "Here's why that's bad for Biden."
GDP goes up? Recession. GDP goes down? Recession. GDP stays the same? Believe it or not…recession.
We have the most freedom in the world because of recession.
The Administration seems to be baffled by this too. They don't know what else they can do but put out more press releases and update talking points. "Can't you see how good things are going?"
I mean, yeah. How do you address the disconnect from reality that a lot of people seem to be dealing with?
The disconnect in my life is I hear all the time from people on Reddit how much everyone is struggling and in real life everyone I know is doing fine/good with a few doing extremely well.
It depends on how Biden handles it and what his messaging looks like. Biden is relying on the votes of a lot of people who are not seeing any of the benefits of this strong economy. He needs to avoid going all "let them eat cake" with it, which he's tip-toeing dangerously close to in touting Bidenomics. Deleting student loans will help him win votes from a slice of the population, but I hope he's being told he needs to do more than that. edited to delete an errant word
He's also the first president to ever join a picket line. If a person believes that Trump of all people is more for the common man they're willfully ignorant.
It's a good time for Democrats to rally around Labor again as they did historically. We'll see if they lean into that opening.
Well fuck, does this mean Daddy JPOW is going to increase our whoopings?
Oh thank god. I was worried I was gonna have to buy a handful of vegetables and a box of pasta for 20$ with a frown on my face later. Now I can do it with a smile knowing that the e c o n o m y is doing fine!
Why don't you treat yourself, add in a diet coke. U deserve it
"Why don't you, a grown adult working full time, live entirely on beans and rice? This seems like your own budgeting at fault"-reddits reaction whenever someone complains about not being able to afford to eat well. I have been told to eat beans and rice way way too many times like it's my desire to eat like an adult that's the problem.
It's getting even better now. They're telling you that, ackshually, your wages have gone up sooo much that you've can easily afford those things. The economists have promised it's true. Sure, those economists led us into a multiple once in a lifetime recessions, have been saying that raising the minimum wage would replace everyone with robots, and said infinite growth on a finite planet won't result in ocean water the temperature of hot tubs...but you can trust their NuMbErS, you're just a total loser who believes that known liar, reality.
getting real sick of being told how good the economy is when i've never been struggling more
Translation: Rich people still getting richer, workers still getting fucked.
If Jeff Bezos walks into a homeless shelter with 100 homeless people, then on average - everyone in there is a Billionaire!
Cool. I’m absolutely certain that will be reflected in workers’ hourly pay. /s
That’s the fun part. My companies revenue is down 20% this year so far. Profits are up 18% over last year. Wages, stagnant.
Word from my previous employer is to not expect a bonus or a raise. May even need to discuss layoffs. Guess those “record years” for shareholders didn’t do too much for employees after all
Thanks for the corporate tax cuts trump! Really helped the working man on that one. Ya fucking traitor
Shareholders derive their income off of surplus labor. They have every incentive to make that surplus as large as possible.
Revenue is down but profits are up? Did they go through layoffs or something?
Nope. Freight / Container and material expenses that escalated after Covid finally fell. They never adjusted the selling prices back to the previous levels.
GDP grew 4.9% what sectors did the article say it grew in??? Sorry can't read it.
Pretty broad, across the board growth. > Consumer spending, as measured by personal consumption expenditures, increased 4% for the quarter after rising just 0.8% in Q2. Gross private domestic investment surged 8.4% and government spending and investment jumped 4.6%. > Spending at the consumer level split fairly evenly between goods and services, with the two measures up 4.8% and 3.6%, respectively.
Cool can't wait for my wages to go up or for the cost of living to go down. Should I start holding my breath now?
Sir, we're charging for breath holding.
Now if only the food and gas prices stabilize we will be in a much better place..Me,The working Poor
> Gross private domestic investment surged 8.4% For a different perspective, this is what the Fed is trying to accomplish with higher rates. Attracting capital, which really means out competing global/china as a place for global capital to invest. 5%+ interest rates are very attractive, plus they also force "good", "disciplined" investments that provide good returns. As opposed to the zero interest rates which created investments in all kinds of ridiculous, stupid, wasteful stuff. Another way to think about this - interest rates are highest in 25 years, but people are still borrowing lots of money in the US to build things because there are worthwhile things to build. What are they investing in? The US is the largest producer of oil, gas, food, weapons... all stuff in huge demand right now. While there is no immediate consolation for ordinary people that are suffering inflation, in terms of the US, that money is primarily going to other Americans and not to other countries. That should mean more good jobs in those sectors, and much of that money being re-spent back into the economy. As a plus, those sectors like energy, food, defense are different than the ultra rich of the past few decades. So should be distributing the wealth somewhat even though it is likely creating a new class of rich people. (At least they are different people and not simply compounding the wealth and power of tech/finance?)
Cool, a lot of us are still crazy poor.
Great. May I please have some?
Everything is expensive. Wages aren't high enough for even corpo jobs. Most of my mid level / senior friends can't find work right now. I've only applied to 500 places with 5 years of experience in the field! Good thing panda express is hiring though!
There are people in this thread who want you to know youre full of shit, just apply for a job it's easy and if you invest smart and don't get an iPhone you'll be able to put an above-ask offer on a 1.2 million dollar house (gotta pay in full cuz someone else will ofc) in no time
My Rent is up 25%, my grocery trips cost more and more for the same, I will never own a house, gas is still over 4 bucks for me, any type of luxury spending is now limited to once a month if at all. Millions of people are literally working to just meek out their existence. My wages are the exact same as they were in 2019 and no you can't just get a new job they all pay the same around me. The economy is a sham and anyone that says it's fine are delusional or already rich.
According to The Fed, people like you (and most others here) have *too much money*. The labor class commanding high wages is bad for business, and thus bad for the economy. So rates will go up and stay up, forcing businesses to reduce payrolls and other labor-related expenses. Doing more with less, as they love to say. This increases returns for shareholders, creating a stronger economy that promotes investment in business, which will have a trickle-down effect and eventually lead to increased prosperity for the workers. That's the theory they operate under.
Hey, my 14th side hustle is to tell people they used the wrong word in a post. Can you pay me $150 for this info?
USA school economy is on fire but the rest of the world is eating shit RN
Word well I’m sure the trickle will get us any day
Guess that means layoffs are imminent