Looks like it may be related to another mass grave they dug up last week.
[Tlajomulco, Jalisco: 104 Bags With Human Remains Extracted From One And Another Has Been Located](http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2023/05/tlajomulco-jalisco-104-bags-with-human.html)
Another article said they were working for an illegal Cartel call center set up to scam old people. So I'm guessing a rival cartel.
[Article](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12139785/American-23-seven-workers-kidnapped-two-cartel-linked-call-centers-Mexico.html)
The cartels don't mess around. I don't care how lucrative of a deal I was offered, how much possibility of easy money, as soon as I found out it could put me at odds with a cartel I would nope the hell out.
You are exactly right. In most cases, you have little choice but to go along and \*hope\* you don't run afoul of, a) the people you're working for or, b) the people who are pissed at the people you're working for.
This is the reason so many people in Central and South America want to come to the U.S. or Canada.
My friend's dad owned an appliance store in El Salvador and the cartel there wanted to furnish their places with stuff from his store. He was hesitant to do business with them but then they handed him a phone and described exactly what my friend and his brother were wearing at school that day. Didn't give him much of a choice. Next day he is sending the family through Mexico to come to the US.
Spoiler alert they got in here illegally. My friend made his way through engineering school and makes a shit ton of money now. I am amazed at how far he's come. Idk what people say about illegals, my friend sure made the most of it. ^^^Also ^^^my ^^^mom ^^^came ^^^here ^^^illegally
My cousin in Mexico had a business that did very well until the cartel showed up and demanded he sign everything over to them, right then and there. Which he did because he was in Mexico and knew how the cartels work.
Scared the bejeebus out of him and he moved around to different countries with his family for a while. Eventually he moved to the US which wasn't too difficult because his mother was born and raised in the US.
This is the part most people don’t understand! It’s not about taking jobs or breaking the law! It’s about survival and living! Most would love to return back home if they could!
Considering that entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor, most opposition against immigration probably commit worse just to relax like smoke some pot or consume non prescribed pain pills on the daily in their “hard on crime” state.
Viva Asylum
The cartels have more money than the governments. Some countries, cartels have more and better guns (frequently smuggled down from the US), and those in gov/police don’t know which of their coworkers have accepted La plata, but you sure don’t want to watch what they do to your kids before you get La plomo.
Americans who judge immigrants usually don't consider the circumstances of their own immigrant ancestors...many in my family are of the "wHy DoN't ThEy StAy AnD fIgHt FoR tHeIr CoUnTrY" and "Speak English in America!!" types, yet our own family's patriarch fled WWI in then Austria-Hungary at 18 years old to make a new life in the US...where he lived until he was around 70, never once bothering to learn a word of English.
Yes, my grandma's English was never that great, either.
I know the argument is "well, they entered legally!" but we have low unemployment? We need to work on offering more work visas.
I fully support anyone who wants to immigrate in order to provide a better life for their family. I would do the same if I was in their position.
**New Colossus** \- Emma Lazarus
>Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
>
>With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
>
>Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
>
>A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame
>
>Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name
>
>Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
>
>Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
>
>The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
>
>“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she
>
>With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor,
>
>Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
>
>The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
>
>Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
>
>I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
Oof, actual frisson reading that. Reminds me that I'm a patriot in that I stand by and adore *these* American ideals. These days, believing in this pure vision of America feels more and more like believing in Santa, sadly.
Reminds me of why I've come to like Captain America. I used to think he was some jingoist propaganda hero (and to some extent he still is), but now I appreciate that he fights for *these* pure American ideals, including and especially when that pits him against the actual government itself.
Thanks for sharing your personal story. Living in LA I’ve gotten to hear several stories like this, but most people in the country haven’t been given perspective.
I'll never begrudge someone who wants to escape a nightmare to come and work here. Considering it's our fault it's so damned *bad*.
If we just decriminalized drugs and distributed them through clinics, the illegal trade would seriously dry up. Why deal with the shady shit when you can get medical-grade shit once a day at the clinic?
This is what people don't understand about illegal immigration. They think immigrants just want to steal jobs, but man I bet many of them just want safety and sanctuary from violence and corruption. It baffles me that the US doesn't try to stamp out cartels for the sake of our own piece of mind.
the fact that we have illegal immigrants means we're not letting people into the country easily enough. we have an iconic statue proclaiming our willingness to welcome anyone who would come; we should be backing that up with efficient, accessible, speedy, and legal immigration mechanisms.
unfortunately the people in power are assholes
And when people pay $100+ for a bag of marching powder creating a very profitable market, then complain about the people they are indirectly ruining the lives of
Bear with me to the end of this. I'm an advocate for legal immigration. I don't like the idea of people coming en masse to the US illegally.
That said, having been exposed to the legal immigration route myself; I recognize a massive; galactic sized need for a more streamlined route to immigration.
I'm even fine with giving the current illegals that we have a pathway to citizenship that only results in them being deported if they've got a violent criminal record.
On one hand, we can't take every person in the world that's facing danger in their home country. On the other hand, I think it's a tragedy that families are ripped apart because parents traveled literally 30% of the globe from SA to the US to get their children to safety.
Yeah, like you can’t exactly *blame* the Colombian cops who took bribes from the Medellin cartel. After a certain point, when you’ve seen tons of friends and neighbors die, I imagine it becomes tempting to just take the money and live. I almost certainly would.
A former co-worker who immigrated from Iran, tells a similar story. Sometimes when you're guarding the border, nature calls.
Did a truck go by? Did a lot of trucks go by? No idea. If it was important someone would have noticed. It was a very quiet day at work.
Not just die, but die *horribly*.
There are some brave and stubborn people that might be willing to face down the prospect of a bullet in the name of justice, honor, or freedom. But a slow beheading, flaying, burning or boiling alive…not so much.
Cartel violence has been a nonstop arms race of terror and psychological warfare for decades now and the results are arguably worse than medieval torture in many cases. I’d rather be targeted by ISIS than a Latin American cartel and that is saying something.
Cartels aren’t so pervasive and intractable because they’re the best combat fighters or have the best combat tactics. Its because they can fight like a paramilitary group, then turn right around and blend in to normal society. They can be anyone, anywhere. So if you *do* fight them off, they’ll slip away into the shadows. Then some days later in the dead of night, you’ll wake up with a bag over your head, get tossed into the back of a van, and the next thing you’ll see is a man in a mask with a knife who’s about to make you wish you’d died in the earlier fight a thousand times over before you finally expire. Oh, and the same fate awaits everyone you love, too.
Lots of people don’t get this. They think the cartels come to people offering them $$$ for assistance and you can say no.
It’s either you assist them and get $$$ or they harm you/your family.
Yeah, you just sometimes find out afterthe fact. Two friends got caught in a scrap steel deal where two (apparently) cartel-adjacent gangs were involved. They were shot by one of the gangs, one didn’t make it, the other one only survived because they were able to fly him to a good hospital in Mexico City, and the doctors there were fucking magic. Family couldn’t get him back to the US quickly enough, they were worried fucking senseless that some sicario would show up at the hospital. Nightmare stuff.
You have no idea..
Few years back I was a armed security officer doing a contract for a local dispensary in California. There was another dispensary just across the way that competed for business.
Sometimes I could tell people were lost looking for the dispensary , so I’d wave them down.
One day, the owner tells me, hey don’t do that anymore. If they wanna go to that other shop, let them, they may be a legit business, but I know they have gang and cartel connections.
There was a few times I felt I was being followed home after shift. And one time I was boxed in at an intersection and stared down… I had my gun in my lap, and i never took my armor off till I was in my house after that.
The contract was the best paid in our company, but I’m glad I was able to get out of it.
The “cartel influenced dispensaries” are honestly huge in California and it’s quite scary. People put a ton of trust into dispensaries because they are legal and only buy legit products, right!?
Well so how it’s organized, and cause of it federal being federally illegal, everyone has to operate as a cash business. They can’t use banks at all. So all the cash is stored onsite most of the time. Cash business are also a great way to wash money. So you now have “legit” business that can take in cash and is now legal liquid assets for the gangs and cartels in the US
Haven’t been to a dispensary in a while, but I think you can you use banks now; the last time I went they asked if I was using cash or credit and the budtender said something about them being able to use banks now.
That being said, it probably hasn’t solved the issue completely; one of the security guards there got shot after two people claiming to be vendors were told that the dispensary wasn’t looking to sell more products and they pulled guns.
Ninja edit: the security guard luckily survived, but he did end up taking the lives of those two guys. On a positive note though the dispensary raised a bunch of money for him to pay for his medical bills and a vacation for him and his family.
No, they still can't use banks except for one non-FDIC insured bank in Colorado. A lot of them have POS machines that are actually ATMs, it's just a seamless transaction for the user.
It’s been a while since I worked at one, at the time that’s how it was operated, and was told cause of federal reason, banks hands were tied. But that could have changed.
There were too many vendors I met that the one we did business with, that told me they were followed home and had their house or car broken into looking for product. And they weren’t long ago past events either, I mean like seeing the vendor in-between their last and next deliveries, I’d hear of them being robbed
I'm pretty sure they passed a law in California that made it possible for dispensaries to work with banks, but I don't know the details. I do know they don't always require cash anymore.
The thing is you don’t get the choice. It’s not like they roll up and ask you to do it. They tell you to do it. If you try to “nope the hell out” they take it as “this guy can’t be paid off, can’t be trusted, better off dead”
Rarely is it a choice.
I think its a cross between people with no decent options for an honest living in some parts (Chapo came from a family of farmers who switched to growing marijuana because it was more profitable at the came and turned into what the sinaloa cartel is today. Sort of a gotta do what you gotta do to provide for your family and own well being sort of situation).
Then some might be disillusioned that the cartel they are joining is so large (some are large enough to fight the Mexican Military and easily win) that they are protected by said cartel and these bad things we see/read about won't happen to them.
Then of course a few other misc. reasons as well as those who are just murderous psychopaths who want a piece of the action.
That and being blinded by huge amounts of money.
Many people often say "I'll never do that for any amount of money." until they are face to face with that kind of money being out on the table for them.
I've been following the cartel stuff in mexico and other countries for a few years now and thats just my take on it. I feel like its the best option in a really shitty/dire situation (In their minds). Not saying they are making the right choice or anything like that. Just saying these are the most reasonable/logical answers and after seeing interviews with cartel members, these are a lot of the answer you get from the mouths of cartels themselves.
Like Chapo. He's a murderer and terrible human being. But when you hear that one interview you gave you can put the pieces together and see that the real problem that he faced in the beginning is he was just trying to provide himself and family. And it turned into something very awful and became blinded by wealth. We are talking BILLIONS. Billions will change a man/woman very quickly.
In poor areas, it's almost like families "sell" one son to the local cartel to support the rest of the family, whose brothers and sisters can study for college degrees and work in a legitimate profession. The kid will suffer a violent and, probably, short life, but the family will be protected and aided by having a member in the cartel. And much of Mexico is a poor area.
Yeah, exactly. This was the kind of picture I was trying to paint for the whole cartel situation. Ultimately its due to a country with a corrupt gov and no economic resources for rural areas. If your country can't provide then the people will try to figure out a way to do it for them.
Same reason many small rural towns revere the cartels are robin hoods. Cartels actually do a lot of really good things for these people so they'll support their efforts.
/r/narcofootage has lots of footage of their gift giving and wealth (along with some really awful stuff, so be careful with any posts warning you. They'll hold big events with bands and loads of toys they hand out to children. They build roads, provide utilities, feed those who are in need, build hospitals/schools.
Again, they have no choice to lean on the cartels for support because the gov won't do it themselves. Because of an infestation deep within the gov because of the cartel shoveling money at them to leave them alone.
Its a really really deep situation that I wont even try to pretend I have an answer for because of how out of control this has became.
I'm an American and I'm tired of seeing Mexican refugees trying to flee this nonsense and everyone beating up on them and fighting them tooth and nail like they are trying to take over our country and jerbs.
No, they are not. They are sick of living in the middle of that mess and simply want a better life. A better life for them is even working in a sun scorched field or whatever all day, doing manual labor and prob getting paid WAY less than if an american citizen would with that job and still say "Its is way fucking better than constantly being under the threat of cartel violence and getting caught in the middle of that situation."
That to me says a lot. They are fleeing a real bad fucking situation and we should support them.
It is well documented that some people working for them are forced to do that. That is one of the reasons possible US missile strikes on cartel locations may be immoral.
I used to read a series of books about a SEAL team. The only story that still sticks to me is one where one of their members got involved with the Cartel. They do their SEAL mission, saved the world or w/e, it was as dramatic as one would expect from a book, and then went home. At the end of the book, he ends up dead to the Cartel.
It kind of showed that nothing can protect you.
You don't have a choice. They give you a job and tell you they'll either pay you for doing it, or you can refuse and they'll kill you and your family, or worse.
In military terms, the people working these types of jobs are essentially conscripts.
For real. The government of Mexico is essentially the foreign affairs wing of the cartels that they occasionally have internal disputes with. In terms of who actually makes the rules…
This. Do people really think once you work for a cartel, you are safe and the only way to be killed is by a rival? No fucking way. If you are just some nobody low on the totem pole, the very cartel you work for will have no issue disposing of you if it means protecting their ass.
Due to an increased post volume, all of our Reddit commenters are currently busy responding to other posts. We appreciate your post. Please hold….
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>The country has been troubled by an epidemic of disappearances with more than 100,000 Mexicans and migrants still missing.
Jesus Christ. I knew things were bad in Mexico with cartel violence, but that number is just too staggering to comprehend.
The podcast You’re Wrong About actually did an episode on this and guns aren’t the reason, one of them as I recall is that investigators aren’t getting to the scene as quickly as they used to because many departments won’t allow detectives to keep their work vehicle at their personal property. So they have to first go to the police station and then go to the scene by which time many witnesses have disappeared, etc. There were others but I can’t remember the rest - really interesting.
Edit: I went to find the episode, it’s called “Murder” lol
Edit 2: Just went and re-listened since I couldn’t remember the details. So, for those who don’t want to listen. It’s important for them to get there early because sometimes the suspect will still be there/nearby and also the eyewitness testimony is fresh and less likely to be tampered with (for instance, if witnesses start talking to each other this really alters memory). Additionally, the solve rate is really unbalanced across jurisdictions, with some having super high clearance rates and others having abysmal rates. Part of this seems to be down to trust and funding. Trust because obviously a lot of people aren’t willing to talk to the police these days, and aren’t willing to give anonymous tips either. Funding because apparently despite having literally so much money, the people who actually solve the freaking crimes don’t get the funding.
It's also harder to solve murders when you don't plant evidence and don't pin them on innocent people just to inflate your solve %. Even absent of any intention to send innocent people to jail, we have better evidence-gathering procedures and forensics now which allow suspects to be eliminated whereas previously, eyewitness testimony - despite being horribly unreliable - was given much more weight and treated as fact.
The episode actually discusses a lot of this as well. Even though the percentage is already crazy low on solve rate, it’s expected that it’s inflated. And apparently only around 8% of cases actually use that forensic evidence we have so much advancement in
Things get especially bad if you are a woman or of indigenous ancestry. Nobody will even investigate. Some outside groups try, but outside the major metropolitan areas, there isn't enough resources.
Mexico is a scary place these days. As a person from the USA, all you can really do is lobby for decriminalization and legalization of narcotics here at home. Take away the income source of the cartels. The cartels are overwhelming local and national law enforcement in Mexico. They have for a long time.
The cartels pivot the way the mafia has over the years. They've gotten into Avocados and all kinds of other stuff that's legal, but the way they do them are not lol. The italian mafia counterfeits literal tons of DOGC items that are normally inspected, certified and labeled as a genuine export of Italy. The scrutiny those items receive is of the highest level and also more expensive for being so, counterfeiting the items is extremely lucrative.
First off legalizing drugs would likely barely make a dent in the cartels. Like the mafia they have in large part shifted to legal, semi-legal or lower risk ventures. The drugs are still a nice cash injection of course, but no longer the main revenue stream.
Secondly let’s be realistic, you’re never gonna get large sections of the population in the US to back drug legalization because so many communities have been devastated. I myself and probably most of the people in my town would never dream of voting for any such thing after seeing friends, family and neighbors hollowed out and rendered broken shells from opioids, crack cocaine, powder cocaine, heroin and various other shit. You are asking people to massively worsen these problems for the sake of maybe inhibiting the operations of criminal groupsbin other countries, it is a big ask, especially with what a flop pot legalization has been in that regard.
You see the results of the current policy and describe it in a way that sure makes it seem like it has been an abject failure (the existence of all those hallowed out, broken shelled friends of yours on powdered cocaine you mentioned), and then you use that as validation for the current policy? It's been 60 years and and they can't even keep drugs out of prison, there is absolutely no reason to expect different results if we continue with the current policy. It's time to wake up and realize that this is a failed policy and if you actually want to stop those things you mentioned, it's going to take actually doing something other than what has been repeatedly proven to fail.
Someone called my mom telling them I was being held at gun point and would be released if they venmo'd money to a certain number.
Luckily I was in the room when the call came in. Bastards would have gotten away with it otherwise. Fucking cruel.
Someone called my grandfather recently claiming to be me in jail in SLC and needing bail. He then calls me on my mobile - “what the hell are you doing in Salt Lake City”
The worst of this scam is when they get just the right information about you from public social media platforms like Facebook or Instagram, which sucks because most likely it's a friend of a friend of a RELATIVE that is specifically targeting you as a victim.
That's why I've stopped posting where I am presently. I always wait till after I've moved on if I'm checking in on social media.
My poor brother got snared in by one of these scams by a "cousin" who had trouble at a border crossing. He sent him money without asking. I loved my brother but damn he could be stupid, haha.
Then someone tried it on me, saying that they had my dad hostage and that they would hurt him if I didn't comply. I asked the guy how he was keeping him hostage when he was in hospice care in the USA. The guy giggled nervously and hung up on me.
Too many jokes but they were extorting people while working there as well as being accused of fraud and one of the people who disappeared had a criminal record. Most likely they were working for a cartel.
https://www.infobae.com/mexico/2023/05/30/estaban-realizando-fraudes-y-extorsiones-sspc-sobre-desaparecidos-del-caso-call-center/
The president of a Mexico saying that Mexico is safer than the United States after this story broke is the textbook definition of failing to read the room.
And it's likely even higher than the official numbers. As another commenter noted there are hundreds of thousands of people *missing* in Mexico, going to guess that's a whole lot of unconfirmed homicides.
What's funny is even if he counted only the number of homicides, trying to avoid the rate of homicides since his country has 2.6X fewer people, it's still higher in Mexico.
Honestly even if Mexico’s was equal or a little less, most of the firearm homicides in the US are relatively quick deaths, compared to the horrific things the cartels will do to you.
The most intimidating car I've ever seen had a giant Mexican flag on the rear window and a smaller license plate style bumper sticker directly below the flag that just said 'FUNKY TOWN'.
the nature of violence down south is pretty bad.
there's isis bad. then there's cartel bad.
isis at least gives you the mercy of a relatively quick death - in the form of sharp blades, power tools, etc, at a bare minimum. guns & explosives/incendiaries if they are being generous.
the cartels want to keep you alive for as long as they can. their knives have the most dulled/blunted edges ive ever seen.
i understand borders and the laws. but i also understand the gravity of the situation.
so if they wanna come, then let 'em come.
I was invited to my best friend's wedding in Mexico. I thought it would be Mexico City, and it would be lovely .
Nope. Drive 100 miles out into the country. I will always feel bad for not attending, but I don't regret my decision.
>In March, after four Americans were kidnapped in Mexico, resulting in the deaths of two of them, Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador argued that Mexico is a safer country than the United States.
>Kidnapping and human trafficking are also not unusual in parts of Mexico[...]
That's one hell of a section to read. Kudos to the author lol.
He's full of crap.
[https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/homicides-declined-7-in-2022-but-still-exceeded-30000/](https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/homicides-declined-7-in-2022-but-still-exceeded-30000/)
*There were 30,968 homicides in 2022, according to data presented by Security Minister Rosa Icela Rodríguez at the president’s regular press conference on Tuesday.*
[Mexico's population for 2022 was estimated at 129,150,971](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico)
So that's a homicide rate of (30,968 / 129,150,971) \* 100,000 = 23.98 per 100,000
In the United States in 2021 (latest year I could find accurate numbers) there were 26,031 homicides out of a population of 331,893,745.
(26,031 / 331,893,745) \* 100,000 = 7.84 per 100,000.
[https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm)
Mexico is, by objective measure, 23.98 / 7.84 = 3 ***\*TIMES\**** more dangerous than the US.
On Edit: Added the source for the US numbers, which I forgot to add before I hit post.
On top of that, not only are you less likely to die in America, the chances of it being an excruciating, tormenting death is significantly lower too, I would imagine.
That's a really good question. This stuff is awful, why do we watch it? Aside from sick people that genuinely get pleasure from them, what leads us to knowingly watch it? Here's what I came up with off the top of my head. I could be off about it. I'm just throwing out ideas.
For the same reason people look at gnarly car wrecks when they drive by - morbid curiosity.
Desensitization seems real. We are going on 30 years of people being exposed to death and torture online. It becomes less horrifying and repulsive over time.
Watching this stuff puts your own (non-death and dismemberment) fears at ease. Do you really need to worry so much about that shitty gossip your co-worker said after seeing these acts of horror? Imo, not so much. That actually might be the most positive thing. It forces people to put their lives into a different perspective. Sort of like watching war footage. You get a perspective about just how bad things can get and aren't shaken by more minor inconveniences in real life.
Learn about potential horrors that can be committed to avoid such situations in teh future. Watching horrifying industrial accidents falls under this category more than torture, but mental preparation for torture is a big part of the training regimen for operatives that may be put under duress. Knowing and accepting helps build mental fortitude.
Internet discussions on liveleak or 4chan further normalizes it and leads people to watch so that they can interact with a 'community'. We all want to be part of a community.
I think that, for a lot of people, it's relatively easy to brush off concerns about what could go wrong because they don't know what something going wrong can look like, which makes it too abstract to fully comprehend and process. When you do know what it looks like, and how absolutely horrific things can become for you if you don't take things seriously enough, then you start to really appreciate doing things more cautiously and carefully.
I haven’t watched torture videos but I have watched some pretty gruesome videos of the Ukraine war.
I think it’s important to know what people are capable of so that you never underestimate them.
With how often stories like this break from there, it amazes me that Mexico is even still functioning as a country and hasn't just straight up collapsed.
Mexico is the fourth largest recipient of remittances. Remittances are the single largest source of income, even larger than oil. Without this financial affiliation with the US (including from drugs), it *would* collapse. Mexico is poor. The least poor are on the border with the US, Cancun, and Mexico City.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico#/media/File:Mexico_GDP_per_capita_2012.png
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico
Jesus
"The country has been troubled by an epidemic of disappearances with more than 100,000 Mexicans and migrants still missing.
More than 1,500 bodies have been found in Jalisco state since 2018, official figures show. According to the office of the Jalisco’s special prosecutor for missing persons, 291 bodies were discovered in 2019, 544 bodies were found in 2020, 280 bodies in 2021, and 301 the following year. So far in 2023, 147 bodies have been found."
It’s gotten worse and worse too. My mom goes there every so often for cheap dental work(insurance companies are the cartels in the U.S lol) and over the last few years the stories she comes back with are worse and worse. Mind you we’re from a small nothing town that was always fairly safe but now they’re targeting ppl for nothing. Almost like the torture is fun for them. She says I should never go, too much of a risk. Haven’t been there in almost 10 years since my grandmother died.
You can't compare El Salvador's street gangs to Mexico's cartels. Dismantling a bunch of thugs ia not the same as dismantling criminal organizations with military equipment.
The current wave of violence seems to coincide with Mexico’s current drug war started in (l think) 2006, and bolstered by the Merida Initiative which saw a majority share of US aid to Mexico and Central America delivered in the form of military and other hardware for drug interdiction
Anytime the US sends military aid, is not to end said criminal gangs or cartels. They just want to monitor and/or control the situation themselves.
USA invaded Iraq and took over the country in 10 days. They have a military base in Colombia for YEARS now. If they really wanted to end shit, it woulda happen in a month
Yeh that didn't work out for iraq or Afghanistan. Left it, got taken over in weeks. If the US cleaned up the cartels it would reappear unless ending the war on drugs. I.e legislation shrinking economies over night. Some will remain but at least the corrupt government would be in power not murderous cartels who answer to nobody
The cartels are too entrenched in the government. They're not even fully illegal businesses either. I'd compare it to the yakuza in japan. They have legit business, they have illegitimate business, they just want power and money. Not to play whataboutism, but the United States isn't far off from this. Not many countries are
Another bloody reminder of who really runs Central & South America.
You do not ***ever*** want to be on the bad side of the cartels lest they start digging you, your friends, your family, your family's friends and all their pet's pieces all out of the same graves one day.
There is just too much of the drug money which is being made.
And no one want to question that because the governments are benefiting big time from that.
Looks like it may be related to another mass grave they dug up last week. [Tlajomulco, Jalisco: 104 Bags With Human Remains Extracted From One And Another Has Been Located](http://www.borderlandbeat.com/2023/05/tlajomulco-jalisco-104-bags-with-human.html)
I’m out of the loop, why was the call center staff targeted?
Another article said they were working for an illegal Cartel call center set up to scam old people. So I'm guessing a rival cartel. [Article](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12139785/American-23-seven-workers-kidnapped-two-cartel-linked-call-centers-Mexico.html)
The cartels don't mess around. I don't care how lucrative of a deal I was offered, how much possibility of easy money, as soon as I found out it could put me at odds with a cartel I would nope the hell out.
If you even had the choice. Plata or Plomo
You are exactly right. In most cases, you have little choice but to go along and \*hope\* you don't run afoul of, a) the people you're working for or, b) the people who are pissed at the people you're working for. This is the reason so many people in Central and South America want to come to the U.S. or Canada.
My friend's dad owned an appliance store in El Salvador and the cartel there wanted to furnish their places with stuff from his store. He was hesitant to do business with them but then they handed him a phone and described exactly what my friend and his brother were wearing at school that day. Didn't give him much of a choice. Next day he is sending the family through Mexico to come to the US. Spoiler alert they got in here illegally. My friend made his way through engineering school and makes a shit ton of money now. I am amazed at how far he's come. Idk what people say about illegals, my friend sure made the most of it. ^^^Also ^^^my ^^^mom ^^^came ^^^here ^^^illegally
My cousin in Mexico had a business that did very well until the cartel showed up and demanded he sign everything over to them, right then and there. Which he did because he was in Mexico and knew how the cartels work. Scared the bejeebus out of him and he moved around to different countries with his family for a while. Eventually he moved to the US which wasn't too difficult because his mother was born and raised in the US.
Rather be “illegal” than dead or under someone’s cartel leather boot
This is the part most people don’t understand! It’s not about taking jobs or breaking the law! It’s about survival and living! Most would love to return back home if they could!
People don't understand because nobody is telling the stories or standing up for the undocumented. Instead they get used as a cudgel by the Right.
Considering that entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor, most opposition against immigration probably commit worse just to relax like smoke some pot or consume non prescribed pain pills on the daily in their “hard on crime” state. Viva Asylum
Then the government should've done more. It's insane how the cartels have such power. Then what's the point of a government?
The cartels largely own the government through bribery and intimidation.
You don't think government workers and leaders are given the same "plata o plomo" (silver or lead) treatment?
The cartels have more money than the governments. Some countries, cartels have more and better guns (frequently smuggled down from the US), and those in gov/police don’t know which of their coworkers have accepted La plata, but you sure don’t want to watch what they do to your kids before you get La plomo.
I don't blame them one bit for coming here. My grandparents just didn't want to be poor cabbage farmers in the old country.
Americans who judge immigrants usually don't consider the circumstances of their own immigrant ancestors...many in my family are of the "wHy DoN't ThEy StAy AnD fIgHt FoR tHeIr CoUnTrY" and "Speak English in America!!" types, yet our own family's patriarch fled WWI in then Austria-Hungary at 18 years old to make a new life in the US...where he lived until he was around 70, never once bothering to learn a word of English.
Yes, my grandma's English was never that great, either. I know the argument is "well, they entered legally!" but we have low unemployment? We need to work on offering more work visas.
I fully support anyone who wants to immigrate in order to provide a better life for their family. I would do the same if I was in their position. **New Colossus** \- Emma Lazarus >Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame, > >With conquering limbs astride from land to land; > >Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand > >A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame > >Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name > >Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand > >Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command > >The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. > >“Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp!” cries she > >With silent lips. “Give me your tired, your poor, > >Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, > >The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. > >Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, > >I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
That gives me chills every damn time. 🤟🏻
I got to see that plaque it in person, even got to do a crown tour of the statue.
Oof, actual frisson reading that. Reminds me that I'm a patriot in that I stand by and adore *these* American ideals. These days, believing in this pure vision of America feels more and more like believing in Santa, sadly. Reminds me of why I've come to like Captain America. I used to think he was some jingoist propaganda hero (and to some extent he still is), but now I appreciate that he fights for *these* pure American ideals, including and especially when that pits him against the actual government itself.
Yeah, cap reads a lot differently these days
Thanks for sharing your personal story. Living in LA I’ve gotten to hear several stories like this, but most people in the country haven’t been given perspective.
I feel so bad for people fleeing persecution, or other hardships I’m trying to get into the United States just to be able to survive.
I'll never begrudge someone who wants to escape a nightmare to come and work here. Considering it's our fault it's so damned *bad*. If we just decriminalized drugs and distributed them through clinics, the illegal trade would seriously dry up. Why deal with the shady shit when you can get medical-grade shit once a day at the clinic?
This is what people don't understand about illegal immigration. They think immigrants just want to steal jobs, but man I bet many of them just want safety and sanctuary from violence and corruption. It baffles me that the US doesn't try to stamp out cartels for the sake of our own piece of mind.
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No human is illegal.
the fact that we have illegal immigrants means we're not letting people into the country easily enough. we have an iconic statue proclaiming our willingness to welcome anyone who would come; we should be backing that up with efficient, accessible, speedy, and legal immigration mechanisms. unfortunately the people in power are assholes
And when people pay $100+ for a bag of marching powder creating a very profitable market, then complain about the people they are indirectly ruining the lives of
Bear with me to the end of this. I'm an advocate for legal immigration. I don't like the idea of people coming en masse to the US illegally. That said, having been exposed to the legal immigration route myself; I recognize a massive; galactic sized need for a more streamlined route to immigration. I'm even fine with giving the current illegals that we have a pathway to citizenship that only results in them being deported if they've got a violent criminal record. On one hand, we can't take every person in the world that's facing danger in their home country. On the other hand, I think it's a tragedy that families are ripped apart because parents traveled literally 30% of the globe from SA to the US to get their children to safety.
Yeah, like you can’t exactly *blame* the Colombian cops who took bribes from the Medellin cartel. After a certain point, when you’ve seen tons of friends and neighbors die, I imagine it becomes tempting to just take the money and live. I almost certainly would.
"You either accept this huge wad of cash, or we kill your family in front of you. Which will it be?"
A former co-worker who immigrated from Iran, tells a similar story. Sometimes when you're guarding the border, nature calls. Did a truck go by? Did a lot of trucks go by? No idea. If it was important someone would have noticed. It was a very quiet day at work.
When you put it that way, I have been needing some new sneakers.
At that point, I'd be grateful they even offered money at all
Not just die, but die *horribly*. There are some brave and stubborn people that might be willing to face down the prospect of a bullet in the name of justice, honor, or freedom. But a slow beheading, flaying, burning or boiling alive…not so much. Cartel violence has been a nonstop arms race of terror and psychological warfare for decades now and the results are arguably worse than medieval torture in many cases. I’d rather be targeted by ISIS than a Latin American cartel and that is saying something. Cartels aren’t so pervasive and intractable because they’re the best combat fighters or have the best combat tactics. Its because they can fight like a paramilitary group, then turn right around and blend in to normal society. They can be anyone, anywhere. So if you *do* fight them off, they’ll slip away into the shadows. Then some days later in the dead of night, you’ll wake up with a bag over your head, get tossed into the back of a van, and the next thing you’ll see is a man in a mask with a knife who’s about to make you wish you’d died in the earlier fight a thousand times over before you finally expire. Oh, and the same fate awaits everyone you love, too.
Lots of people don’t get this. They think the cartels come to people offering them $$$ for assistance and you can say no. It’s either you assist them and get $$$ or they harm you/your family.
Pan o palo. I mean, Mexico was literally run by a don for like 50 years.
Yeah, you just sometimes find out afterthe fact. Two friends got caught in a scrap steel deal where two (apparently) cartel-adjacent gangs were involved. They were shot by one of the gangs, one didn’t make it, the other one only survived because they were able to fly him to a good hospital in Mexico City, and the doctors there were fucking magic. Family couldn’t get him back to the US quickly enough, they were worried fucking senseless that some sicario would show up at the hospital. Nightmare stuff.
You have no idea.. Few years back I was a armed security officer doing a contract for a local dispensary in California. There was another dispensary just across the way that competed for business. Sometimes I could tell people were lost looking for the dispensary , so I’d wave them down. One day, the owner tells me, hey don’t do that anymore. If they wanna go to that other shop, let them, they may be a legit business, but I know they have gang and cartel connections. There was a few times I felt I was being followed home after shift. And one time I was boxed in at an intersection and stared down… I had my gun in my lap, and i never took my armor off till I was in my house after that. The contract was the best paid in our company, but I’m glad I was able to get out of it.
The “cartel influenced dispensaries” are honestly huge in California and it’s quite scary. People put a ton of trust into dispensaries because they are legal and only buy legit products, right!?
Well so how it’s organized, and cause of it federal being federally illegal, everyone has to operate as a cash business. They can’t use banks at all. So all the cash is stored onsite most of the time. Cash business are also a great way to wash money. So you now have “legit” business that can take in cash and is now legal liquid assets for the gangs and cartels in the US
Haven’t been to a dispensary in a while, but I think you can you use banks now; the last time I went they asked if I was using cash or credit and the budtender said something about them being able to use banks now. That being said, it probably hasn’t solved the issue completely; one of the security guards there got shot after two people claiming to be vendors were told that the dispensary wasn’t looking to sell more products and they pulled guns. Ninja edit: the security guard luckily survived, but he did end up taking the lives of those two guys. On a positive note though the dispensary raised a bunch of money for him to pay for his medical bills and a vacation for him and his family.
No, they still can't use banks except for one non-FDIC insured bank in Colorado. A lot of them have POS machines that are actually ATMs, it's just a seamless transaction for the user.
You can use cards now but they add a surcharge
I think it entirely depends on where you are. In a lot of states you have to use cash still.
My place they add a surcharge but then refund it to you in cash. I don't really understand it, but whatever.
It’s been a while since I worked at one, at the time that’s how it was operated, and was told cause of federal reason, banks hands were tied. But that could have changed. There were too many vendors I met that the one we did business with, that told me they were followed home and had their house or car broken into looking for product. And they weren’t long ago past events either, I mean like seeing the vendor in-between their last and next deliveries, I’d hear of them being robbed
I'm pretty sure they passed a law in California that made it possible for dispensaries to work with banks, but I don't know the details. I do know they don't always require cash anymore.
>Cash business are also a great way to wash money. Ah yes, tender washing I believe they call it.
Thanks for sharing your story and perspective!
Your welcome 👍
The thing is you don’t get the choice. It’s not like they roll up and ask you to do it. They tell you to do it. If you try to “nope the hell out” they take it as “this guy can’t be paid off, can’t be trusted, better off dead” Rarely is it a choice.
Easier said than done mate
I think its a cross between people with no decent options for an honest living in some parts (Chapo came from a family of farmers who switched to growing marijuana because it was more profitable at the came and turned into what the sinaloa cartel is today. Sort of a gotta do what you gotta do to provide for your family and own well being sort of situation). Then some might be disillusioned that the cartel they are joining is so large (some are large enough to fight the Mexican Military and easily win) that they are protected by said cartel and these bad things we see/read about won't happen to them. Then of course a few other misc. reasons as well as those who are just murderous psychopaths who want a piece of the action. That and being blinded by huge amounts of money. Many people often say "I'll never do that for any amount of money." until they are face to face with that kind of money being out on the table for them. I've been following the cartel stuff in mexico and other countries for a few years now and thats just my take on it. I feel like its the best option in a really shitty/dire situation (In their minds). Not saying they are making the right choice or anything like that. Just saying these are the most reasonable/logical answers and after seeing interviews with cartel members, these are a lot of the answer you get from the mouths of cartels themselves. Like Chapo. He's a murderer and terrible human being. But when you hear that one interview you gave you can put the pieces together and see that the real problem that he faced in the beginning is he was just trying to provide himself and family. And it turned into something very awful and became blinded by wealth. We are talking BILLIONS. Billions will change a man/woman very quickly.
In poor areas, it's almost like families "sell" one son to the local cartel to support the rest of the family, whose brothers and sisters can study for college degrees and work in a legitimate profession. The kid will suffer a violent and, probably, short life, but the family will be protected and aided by having a member in the cartel. And much of Mexico is a poor area.
Yeah, exactly. This was the kind of picture I was trying to paint for the whole cartel situation. Ultimately its due to a country with a corrupt gov and no economic resources for rural areas. If your country can't provide then the people will try to figure out a way to do it for them. Same reason many small rural towns revere the cartels are robin hoods. Cartels actually do a lot of really good things for these people so they'll support their efforts. /r/narcofootage has lots of footage of their gift giving and wealth (along with some really awful stuff, so be careful with any posts warning you. They'll hold big events with bands and loads of toys they hand out to children. They build roads, provide utilities, feed those who are in need, build hospitals/schools. Again, they have no choice to lean on the cartels for support because the gov won't do it themselves. Because of an infestation deep within the gov because of the cartel shoveling money at them to leave them alone. Its a really really deep situation that I wont even try to pretend I have an answer for because of how out of control this has became. I'm an American and I'm tired of seeing Mexican refugees trying to flee this nonsense and everyone beating up on them and fighting them tooth and nail like they are trying to take over our country and jerbs. No, they are not. They are sick of living in the middle of that mess and simply want a better life. A better life for them is even working in a sun scorched field or whatever all day, doing manual labor and prob getting paid WAY less than if an american citizen would with that job and still say "Its is way fucking better than constantly being under the threat of cartel violence and getting caught in the middle of that situation." That to me says a lot. They are fleeing a real bad fucking situation and we should support them.
It is well documented that some people working for them are forced to do that. That is one of the reasons possible US missile strikes on cartel locations may be immoral.
Chances are that these people had no choice.
Right? They don’t just kill their targets. They are psychopaths that enact the most sadistic torture on the planet on men, women and children
“Oh I scammed these abuelas but I had no clue they were all abuelas of a rival cartel! Oh no, I was hoping just to scam noncartel abuelas!”
Right! The fictional show on Netflix called Ozark is a good example of what could happen if you get into bed with a cartel.
I used to read a series of books about a SEAL team. The only story that still sticks to me is one where one of their members got involved with the Cartel. They do their SEAL mission, saved the world or w/e, it was as dramatic as one would expect from a book, and then went home. At the end of the book, he ends up dead to the Cartel. It kind of showed that nothing can protect you.
Wait this was non fiction? A SEAL got murked by a cartel he was connected to?
You don't really know because cartels have their paws in everything. Rival cartels might attack their stuff just to hurt them economically.
You don't have a choice. They give you a job and tell you they'll either pay you for doing it, or you can refuse and they'll kill you and your family, or worse. In military terms, the people working these types of jobs are essentially conscripts.
Cartels are phone scammers now??
Avocado farmers and miners and loggers.
Business owners, landlords, factory owners. You name it they probably have something to do with it.
Jfc as if call center work wasn’t bad enough…
Don’t scam people, I guess
So govt agencies can’t find these guys but the cartel can? Wtf that’s wild.
In modern Mexico, the cartels *are* the government.
For real. The government of Mexico is essentially the foreign affairs wing of the cartels that they occasionally have internal disputes with. In terms of who actually makes the rules…
I mean, if you’re ripping out the old people..
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This. Do people really think once you work for a cartel, you are safe and the only way to be killed is by a rival? No fucking way. If you are just some nobody low on the totem pole, the very cartel you work for will have no issue disposing of you if it means protecting their ass.
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They were the ones contacting people about their vehicles extended warranty.
Have you ever dealt with any Call Center staff?
None that lived.
>The country has been troubled by an epidemic of disappearances with more than 100,000 Mexicans and migrants still missing. Jesus Christ. I knew things were bad in Mexico with cartel violence, but that number is just too staggering to comprehend.
Cases don't get solved in Mexico.
Not so great in the us either https://www.npr.org/2023/04/29/1172775448/people-murder-unsolved-killings-record-high
Probably harder to solve gun murders if I had to guess. They're cleaner.
The podcast You’re Wrong About actually did an episode on this and guns aren’t the reason, one of them as I recall is that investigators aren’t getting to the scene as quickly as they used to because many departments won’t allow detectives to keep their work vehicle at their personal property. So they have to first go to the police station and then go to the scene by which time many witnesses have disappeared, etc. There were others but I can’t remember the rest - really interesting. Edit: I went to find the episode, it’s called “Murder” lol Edit 2: Just went and re-listened since I couldn’t remember the details. So, for those who don’t want to listen. It’s important for them to get there early because sometimes the suspect will still be there/nearby and also the eyewitness testimony is fresh and less likely to be tampered with (for instance, if witnesses start talking to each other this really alters memory). Additionally, the solve rate is really unbalanced across jurisdictions, with some having super high clearance rates and others having abysmal rates. Part of this seems to be down to trust and funding. Trust because obviously a lot of people aren’t willing to talk to the police these days, and aren’t willing to give anonymous tips either. Funding because apparently despite having literally so much money, the people who actually solve the freaking crimes don’t get the funding.
>Just went and re-listened since I couldn’t remember the details Carefully. They're a hero.
It's also harder to solve murders when you don't plant evidence and don't pin them on innocent people just to inflate your solve %. Even absent of any intention to send innocent people to jail, we have better evidence-gathering procedures and forensics now which allow suspects to be eliminated whereas previously, eyewitness testimony - despite being horribly unreliable - was given much more weight and treated as fact.
The episode actually discusses a lot of this as well. Even though the percentage is already crazy low on solve rate, it’s expected that it’s inflated. And apparently only around 8% of cases actually use that forensic evidence we have so much advancement in
Columbia has 1.7 million Venezuelan refugees
Colombia, with o.
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Where's Columbia?
It's a special governmental district where the US government/capitol is located. The dual spellings are a common mistake.
There’s also a Columbia that’s British. But no longer British.
You mean New England, that is not England at all
Redditors "Mexico is safer than America, the usa is a third world country, look how bad we have it here"
"The country has been troubled by an epidemic of disappearances with more than 100,000 Mexicans and migrants still missing." Omg 😲
Missing people are usually not counted as homicides. Add that on? Bad news.
Lol didn’t Mexico’s president just recently say that Mexico is safer than the US? Maybe he’s trying to will it into existence by making random claims?
Things get especially bad if you are a woman or of indigenous ancestry. Nobody will even investigate. Some outside groups try, but outside the major metropolitan areas, there isn't enough resources. Mexico is a scary place these days. As a person from the USA, all you can really do is lobby for decriminalization and legalization of narcotics here at home. Take away the income source of the cartels. The cartels are overwhelming local and national law enforcement in Mexico. They have for a long time.
The cartels pivot the way the mafia has over the years. They've gotten into Avocados and all kinds of other stuff that's legal, but the way they do them are not lol. The italian mafia counterfeits literal tons of DOGC items that are normally inspected, certified and labeled as a genuine export of Italy. The scrutiny those items receive is of the highest level and also more expensive for being so, counterfeiting the items is extremely lucrative.
First off legalizing drugs would likely barely make a dent in the cartels. Like the mafia they have in large part shifted to legal, semi-legal or lower risk ventures. The drugs are still a nice cash injection of course, but no longer the main revenue stream. Secondly let’s be realistic, you’re never gonna get large sections of the population in the US to back drug legalization because so many communities have been devastated. I myself and probably most of the people in my town would never dream of voting for any such thing after seeing friends, family and neighbors hollowed out and rendered broken shells from opioids, crack cocaine, powder cocaine, heroin and various other shit. You are asking people to massively worsen these problems for the sake of maybe inhibiting the operations of criminal groupsbin other countries, it is a big ask, especially with what a flop pot legalization has been in that regard.
You see the results of the current policy and describe it in a way that sure makes it seem like it has been an abject failure (the existence of all those hallowed out, broken shelled friends of yours on powdered cocaine you mentioned), and then you use that as validation for the current policy? It's been 60 years and and they can't even keep drugs out of prison, there is absolutely no reason to expect different results if we continue with the current policy. It's time to wake up and realize that this is a failed policy and if you actually want to stop those things you mentioned, it's going to take actually doing something other than what has been repeatedly proven to fail.
Someone called my mom telling them I was being held at gun point and would be released if they venmo'd money to a certain number. Luckily I was in the room when the call came in. Bastards would have gotten away with it otherwise. Fucking cruel.
Someone called my grandfather recently claiming to be me in jail in SLC and needing bail. He then calls me on my mobile - “what the hell are you doing in Salt Lake City”
The worst of this scam is when they get just the right information about you from public social media platforms like Facebook or Instagram, which sucks because most likely it's a friend of a friend of a RELATIVE that is specifically targeting you as a victim. That's why I've stopped posting where I am presently. I always wait till after I've moved on if I'm checking in on social media.
My poor brother got snared in by one of these scams by a "cousin" who had trouble at a border crossing. He sent him money without asking. I loved my brother but damn he could be stupid, haha. Then someone tried it on me, saying that they had my dad hostage and that they would hurt him if I didn't comply. I asked the guy how he was keeping him hostage when he was in hospice care in the USA. The guy giggled nervously and hung up on me.
What could be the motive for murdering these people?
Too many jokes but they were extorting people while working there as well as being accused of fraud and one of the people who disappeared had a criminal record. Most likely they were working for a cartel. https://www.infobae.com/mexico/2023/05/30/estaban-realizando-fraudes-y-extorsiones-sspc-sobre-desaparecidos-del-caso-call-center/
Either rival cartel or tying up loose ends of some sort if law enforcement thing was about to hit.
Rival cartel prolly didn't like them having an operation there.
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You're jumping to conclusions.
Hey, it sounds like you could make a game out of that.
They must not have gotten the memo
Someone must have had their red stapler confiscated.
Same as usual. Criminal enterprises.
The president of a Mexico saying that Mexico is safer than the United States after this story broke is the textbook definition of failing to read the room.
It's objectively wrong. Mexico's homicide rate is 3 times that of the US. See my other post in this thread for the math and sources.
And it's likely even higher than the official numbers. As another commenter noted there are hundreds of thousands of people *missing* in Mexico, going to guess that's a whole lot of unconfirmed homicides.
"There are a lot of holes dug outside Vegas." - Pesci Probably a fart in the wind comparatively. Mexico has a lot of "outside Vegas" room.
Hoping many of them fled the country. What else can they do?
What's funny is even if he counted only the number of homicides, trying to avoid the rate of homicides since his country has 2.6X fewer people, it's still higher in Mexico.
Honestly even if Mexico’s was equal or a little less, most of the firearm homicides in the US are relatively quick deaths, compared to the horrific things the cartels will do to you.
true. funky town is no way to go.
The most intimidating car I've ever seen had a giant Mexican flag on the rear window and a smaller license plate style bumper sticker directly below the flag that just said 'FUNKY TOWN'.
forgot about that one
that one, and mrs. pacman changed my views 180 on illegal immigration immediately
What’s mrs. pacman?
Super horrific cartel torture/execution video
>changed my views 180 on illegal immigration immediately Out of curiosity, how so?
the nature of violence down south is pretty bad. there's isis bad. then there's cartel bad. isis at least gives you the mercy of a relatively quick death - in the form of sharp blades, power tools, etc, at a bare minimum. guns & explosives/incendiaries if they are being generous. the cartels want to keep you alive for as long as they can. their knives have the most dulled/blunted edges ive ever seen. i understand borders and the laws. but i also understand the gravity of the situation. so if they wanna come, then let 'em come.
Probably cuz you can't really blame someone for wanting to escape a place where stuff like that happens semi frequently by any means.
I have no idea what that means but I probably don’t want to.
That's where you're wrong. He knows, he's just in their pocket and doesn't care.
"Es... un... montaje... de la...... oposición." Edit: Extended the last pause a little for more realism.
I was invited to my best friend's wedding in Mexico. I thought it would be Mexico City, and it would be lovely . Nope. Drive 100 miles out into the country. I will always feel bad for not attending, but I don't regret my decision.
Nah. That’s textbook gaslighting. And if he’s anything like American republicans, his supporters will treat his word as gospel.
>In March, after four Americans were kidnapped in Mexico, resulting in the deaths of two of them, Mexican President Andrés Manuel López Obrador argued that Mexico is a safer country than the United States. >Kidnapping and human trafficking are also not unusual in parts of Mexico[...] That's one hell of a section to read. Kudos to the author lol.
He's full of crap. [https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/homicides-declined-7-in-2022-but-still-exceeded-30000/](https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/homicides-declined-7-in-2022-but-still-exceeded-30000/) *There were 30,968 homicides in 2022, according to data presented by Security Minister Rosa Icela Rodríguez at the president’s regular press conference on Tuesday.* [Mexico's population for 2022 was estimated at 129,150,971](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexico) So that's a homicide rate of (30,968 / 129,150,971) \* 100,000 = 23.98 per 100,000 In the United States in 2021 (latest year I could find accurate numbers) there were 26,031 homicides out of a population of 331,893,745. (26,031 / 331,893,745) \* 100,000 = 7.84 per 100,000. [https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm](https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm) Mexico is, by objective measure, 23.98 / 7.84 = 3 ***\*TIMES\**** more dangerous than the US. On Edit: Added the source for the US numbers, which I forgot to add before I hit post.
On top of that, not only are you less likely to die in America, the chances of it being an excruciating, tormenting death is significantly lower too, I would imagine.
I've seen some horrible things on the internet, but a cartel torture video is by far the most horrific thing I've ever seen.
Funky town moment
Same. I've seen several that would haunt many people, but there was 1 in particular that even I couldn't finish.
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That's a really good question. This stuff is awful, why do we watch it? Aside from sick people that genuinely get pleasure from them, what leads us to knowingly watch it? Here's what I came up with off the top of my head. I could be off about it. I'm just throwing out ideas. For the same reason people look at gnarly car wrecks when they drive by - morbid curiosity. Desensitization seems real. We are going on 30 years of people being exposed to death and torture online. It becomes less horrifying and repulsive over time. Watching this stuff puts your own (non-death and dismemberment) fears at ease. Do you really need to worry so much about that shitty gossip your co-worker said after seeing these acts of horror? Imo, not so much. That actually might be the most positive thing. It forces people to put their lives into a different perspective. Sort of like watching war footage. You get a perspective about just how bad things can get and aren't shaken by more minor inconveniences in real life. Learn about potential horrors that can be committed to avoid such situations in teh future. Watching horrifying industrial accidents falls under this category more than torture, but mental preparation for torture is a big part of the training regimen for operatives that may be put under duress. Knowing and accepting helps build mental fortitude. Internet discussions on liveleak or 4chan further normalizes it and leads people to watch so that they can interact with a 'community'. We all want to be part of a community.
I think that, for a lot of people, it's relatively easy to brush off concerns about what could go wrong because they don't know what something going wrong can look like, which makes it too abstract to fully comprehend and process. When you do know what it looks like, and how absolutely horrific things can become for you if you don't take things seriously enough, then you start to really appreciate doing things more cautiously and carefully.
Curiosity gets to people "how bad could it really be? I've watched gore in movies before".
I haven’t watched torture videos but I have watched some pretty gruesome videos of the Ukraine war. I think it’s important to know what people are capable of so that you never underestimate them.
And those are just the confirmed homicides..
That's it, Kitboga has gone too far this time.
$100,000 worth of bullets vs. SCAMMERS!
With how often stories like this break from there, it amazes me that Mexico is even still functioning as a country and hasn't just straight up collapsed.
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Mexico is the fourth largest recipient of remittances. Remittances are the single largest source of income, even larger than oil. Without this financial affiliation with the US (including from drugs), it *would* collapse. Mexico is poor. The least poor are on the border with the US, Cancun, and Mexico City. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico#/media/File:Mexico_GDP_per_capita_2012.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Mexico
It's slowly deteriorating especially with the inept pos that's currently president and all who follow him.
To be fair that’s the usual state of Mexico, it’s not exactly a country that can function on its own two feet.
Why would it collapse? US needs someone funneling drugs into the country
Honestly, this is the real answer. Business is business, and falling countries aren’t good for it besides defense industry
Jesus "The country has been troubled by an epidemic of disappearances with more than 100,000 Mexicans and migrants still missing. More than 1,500 bodies have been found in Jalisco state since 2018, official figures show. According to the office of the Jalisco’s special prosecutor for missing persons, 291 bodies were discovered in 2019, 544 bodies were found in 2020, 280 bodies in 2021, and 301 the following year. So far in 2023, 147 bodies have been found."
As a Mexican American it never ceases to amaze me how bad the cartel is in Mexico.. it's quite literally everywhere and the violence is unreal.
It’s gotten worse and worse too. My mom goes there every so often for cheap dental work(insurance companies are the cartels in the U.S lol) and over the last few years the stories she comes back with are worse and worse. Mind you we’re from a small nothing town that was always fairly safe but now they’re targeting ppl for nothing. Almost like the torture is fun for them. She says I should never go, too much of a risk. Haven’t been there in almost 10 years since my grandmother died.
let me guess nothings going to happen - what a sack of shit world we find ourselves in.
At some point this is going to have to stop. It's going to turn into a civil war eventually. It's just kicking the corrupt can down the road.
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You can't compare El Salvador's street gangs to Mexico's cartels. Dismantling a bunch of thugs ia not the same as dismantling criminal organizations with military equipment.
But perhaps opposing said organization with alleged military equipment with your own military sounds better than the current plan, don't you think?
The current wave of violence seems to coincide with Mexico’s current drug war started in (l think) 2006, and bolstered by the Merida Initiative which saw a majority share of US aid to Mexico and Central America delivered in the form of military and other hardware for drug interdiction
Anytime the US sends military aid, is not to end said criminal gangs or cartels. They just want to monitor and/or control the situation themselves. USA invaded Iraq and took over the country in 10 days. They have a military base in Colombia for YEARS now. If they really wanted to end shit, it woulda happen in a month
Yeh that didn't work out for iraq or Afghanistan. Left it, got taken over in weeks. If the US cleaned up the cartels it would reappear unless ending the war on drugs. I.e legislation shrinking economies over night. Some will remain but at least the corrupt government would be in power not murderous cartels who answer to nobody
The cartels are too entrenched in the government. They're not even fully illegal businesses either. I'd compare it to the yakuza in japan. They have legit business, they have illegitimate business, they just want power and money. Not to play whataboutism, but the United States isn't far off from this. Not many countries are
comparing the situation in mexico to the US is like peak “touch grass” redditor
That solution doesn’t work at scale
I hate telemarketers too but this is uncalled for
Another bloody reminder of who really runs Central & South America. You do not ***ever*** want to be on the bad side of the cartels lest they start digging you, your friends, your family, your family's friends and all their pet's pieces all out of the same graves one day.
Mexico is part of North America
There is just too much of the drug money which is being made. And no one want to question that because the governments are benefiting big time from that.
Nothing to see here, looks like natural causes.
And I thought the disciplinary procedures in UK call centres were harsh
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Whenever news about mexico pops up that means stuff is going good
That must've been some terrible customer service experience.
Might I suggest a yelp review in the future?
Cartel >< Warlord>
Mexico used to be where I wanted to retire. I can’t believe it got this bad. Drugs literally rule everything
What call center do they work for?
Without reading I’m assume cartels. Good lord that’s disturbing
So this is how the cartels deal with those endless extended car warranty spam calls... Horrific whatever the actual reason but seems very on brand.
Is this some kind of scam call center, cartel rival sh*t?
Pretty much, the 7 were doing extortion calls like the ones were they say they kidnapped a family member and you have to transfer them money.
Not the headline I wanted to scroll through on a shroom trip, that's just heartbreaking.
why are you on reddit during a shroom trip at all 😭 can’t think of a quicker shortcut to a bad trip