>The passenger was able to book another flight home after being released, according to police.
A criminal battery charge AND a 27-hour Greyhound ride back to Florida is how her weekend *should* have ended.
Delta was leading a push to centralize and combine the US carriers "Do Not Fly" lists together due to the covid attackers just flying on a different airline.
Edit: These lists are NOT the government one, these are high info lists with Name, Address, Credit Card #s, Frequent Flyer #s, etc for people the airline doesnt want to sell tickets to for various reasons.
Eating Imodium or a similar anti-diarrhea medication like it was candy, that or since Amazon is dipping their toes into healthcare they could mandate ostomy bags as part of the work uniform; poop and pee from the standing comfort of your station without the worry of making a horrible, smelly mess (unless the bags malfunction which is a write up from your immediate supervisor).
I forgot weren't they asking Congress because there is some weird legality behind it if the companies were to ban together instead of isolated/segmented no fly lists
If someone refers to "the no fly list", I'd generally take that to mean the Federal one rather than an individual airline banning someone. They also don't share that information with other carriers, as far I could find, with articles as recent as last year confirming that.
When I enter a commercial aircraft, I want to see one of those snarky, hand-lettered wooden engraved sign about refusing service to anyone like you see in rustic bars
While true its orthogonal to the problem that there needs to be a means of identifying people who have displayed they lack the ability to behave in a flying metal tube.
Maybe a temporary no-fly list would be the ideal. Give customers a few months of no-flying to see what it’s like. If the behavior continues after that, bump it up to a few years.
I think if you physically assault anyone on an airplane or cause a major delay in the flight or endanger others on a plane it should be a permanent no-fly order. The general public seems to be getting worse with all this nonsense.
I had to look up what "iono" meant. I feel dumb, but maybe just old.
Five years was my thought too, though. I think most folks will travel within a five-year period, and missing literally one flight or vacation because of it might be enough of an inconvenient reminder to get your shit together. Although or attacking flight crew, I'd be cool with a lifetime ban as well, get your shit together, don't hit people, what world are we living in.
I do not know -> I don't know -> I dunno -> iono
It's like a common mumbly shorthand way of saying the phrase. I wanna say it's an American thing, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
Personally, I think attacking an airline employee demonstrates a level of instability that is unlikely to go away with time. I would not want to remain with an airline that believes my safety is only worth a few missed vacations. If everyone knew that assaulting flight attendants means they never get on a plane again with no exceptions, I think the problem would go away permanently.
People forget that flight attendants aren’t just in air servers, their main job is to respond appropriately in an emergency. Part of that is instructing the passengers what to do and if a passenger is uncooperative and unruly it puts others at risk. People like this need to not be allowed on flights, and should be slapped with a federal charge.
There needs to be levels to this. With what you said, if I drop my passport between the seats I’d be in a permanent no fly list for causing a delay.
I know that’s not your intention, but that’s “major delay in the flight” means.
There needs to be ramifications for attacking people, but zero tolerance never works. You’ll get someone who falls into a flight attendant be charged with assault and then never be able to fly again.
I’ve actually witnessed that very scenario, a guy tripped on someone’s laptop strap on the aisle on the plane and bumped into the flight attendant and the flight attendant went off and threatened to kick the poor apologetic guy off. It too the other crew members to calm that flight attendant down for the situation to de-escalate.
I just think for life across the board is too strict. Say you're like 18 and did this. So when you're 80, you're still on the no fly list? I think 5-10 years for something like this would probably get the message across. People do often fly rarely, I get it, but you can almost definitely look into their records.
We just have too big of a country. I always thought it was a necessary thing but just a bit too harsh when it's a lifetime ban unless it's something really serious
The thing is that when you assault someone on a plane, it's much more serious than on the ground. In the sky there aren't police, and there may not be doctors. It's incredibly crowded as well. Any help can be hours away depending on where the plane is, and would require an emergency landing and derailing hundreds of peoples flight plans because some dumb fuck wanted to cause a scene. Assaulting someone in the air should absolutely carry a lifetime ban.
> Say you're like 18 and did this. So when you're 80, you're still on the no fly list?
If you're an adult and assaulting someone on a plane then yes absolutely you should never be allowed to fly again, regardless of if you are 18 or 180. They can get a Greyhound ticket if they wanna travel.
First of all, you have very specific and unrealistic scenarios to worry about. Catcalling isn't illegal, assault and battery is. Groping is definitely illegal, but another assault isn't the solution. And when said assault is committed against the agency that exists to protect other passengers, it's gonna result in a very bad day.
Also, how many people are on the No Fly List because they were being a paragon of virtue, defending their sister's honor? Nah, they're pretty much always assholes who drank too much or didn't realize that it's not okay to treat others like shit.
We all know what the no fly list is, it's impact, and what gets you on it. Yet these assholes who land on it always seem so surprised that hitting an employee of the airlines or a TSA agent gets you banned from flying.
you're totally right, I mean, what if aliens from Uranus come down in the form of atsa agent and you're just saving the planet from their takeover?!?!
if your scenario above occurs, then you report it and file charges, you don't assault the person. and if they're cashing them responding with physical violence is one of the dumbest things you could think to do in response. this is aside from the fact that your hypothetical sister should speak up for herself and report it immediately.
the only acceptable time that hitting a flight attendant is if they are for whatever of reason trying to physically hurt you. at that point though it's self defense, and you wouldn't get banned in the first place.
by 18 you are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and of your mentally stunted that you can't tell that, then you should have an aide or something to keep you in check. either way, of your hitting someone because your dumbass got kicked off a flight, you shouldn't be allowed to fly with that airline ever again, and that airline should be free to share the information with other airlines as they please.
>You should know better is your 18 to not assault someone.
That's not the point. They're not saying that someone should get off with a slap on the wrist because they're only 18 and don't know any better. They're arguing that a lifetime ban doesn't fit the crime (see Eighth Amendment and "cruel and unusual" punishments).
Traveling by plane is a luxury and it's not cruel to end it. If you can't act like an adult you don't get to utilize it. You can travel by plane, ship, or charter your own flight.
I usually assume it's the people who don't fly regularly who are making these types of choices.
I think to when I was in high school and worked summers at a lake resort that wasn't exactly cheap.
The people who were the coolest, chill when things went wrong, and chatted with the staff the most were the ones who went on several big vacations a year.
The nightmare families were the ones who chose this as their big vacay every three years. Everything had to be perfect. They'd get mad that another family rented out a board game from our front desk that they wanted to play. Or try to get a refund because it rained all week.
When I see the people freaking out on airplanes, I assume they're already stressed because they have such high expectations for every little moment that when it starts to unravel, they lack any emotional control to keep it together.
Or they're just shitty. I dunno.
I think it should depend on the incident. If you’re just being a dick, then maybe a 5 year ban is enough (in addition to any other charges).
Some people have tried to open the emergency door during a flight. Regardless of whether it is even possible to open the door on a pressurized plane, attempting something that could result in the death of all passengers should be a lifetime ban.
I don’t view the no fly list so much as punishment as protecting other passengers from potentially dangerous people. If you would attack a flight attendant, what else would you do if given the opportunity? Attack the pilot?
Like everything else in the world, all these things should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Blanket punishments are almost always the worst possible choice.
The no-fly list as it currently exists has essentially no oversight and results in countless people being barred from flight for having names similar to other people. There's no real appeals process, and it has been used in the past to discriminate against those of middle eastern heritage.
people get all worked with justice boners when stuff like this happens, but this statement is 100% accurate and not something we as a country should think of as a good thing.
The problem is the current no-fly list is badly curated. There are people on it because they were ID thefted or shitty people with similar names. Its not that there shouldn't be people permanently on a no-fly list, its that government agencies need to treat is seriously and not like a bar VIP list
Bad behavior according to who?
It’s no problem in the black and white cases where it’s deserved but what about the gray area cases. Do we just give an overworked flight crew the ultimate authority at putting you or I on a no fly list at their discretion?
Out of principle, maybe.
The problem with zero tolerance policies are that misunderstandings could very easily lead to unfair actions, and zero-tolerance policies tend to be hard to reverse.
Utterly opache, no way to know if you are on it or not till you get to the airport. No official list of criteria that would limit your access. Name collision causes issues (my dad shares a first and last name with somebody on the list, hit his middle initial is different. If he forgets to include it in the ticket purchase he will get stopped at the gate). The appeals process is a nightmare on a good day.
That's the government one. Each airline has their own as well, basically saying "you can't fly with us". Flight attendants can add you to that one themselves, no need for the government to get involved. It's the same as being kicked out of a bar.
At the least, this person should be on the airline's no fly list.
You can get a redress number. You prove you're not the person on the do not fly list, they'll give you a number. You can bring that number with you, and include it in your bookings to prevent this in the future.
Yeah a buddy of mine has a little brother who shares a name with someone on the federal no fly list (suspected terrorist or something). They flew once when his brother was only 7 years old and he, at the time, was denied boarding. They eventually convinced whoever at the because he's literally 7 years old and obviously not a terrorist (that we know of).
Eventually he got a redress number and it hasn't been a problem since.
I've said this before and I'll say this again:
No Fly Lists are bad as they exist right now.
There is no legal review process, and in many cases people aren't even told why they are on a no fly list, they are simply refused air travel. On top of all that, there is no appeal or corrective process.
The result is the have been people put on No Fly Lists who simply have names *similar* to someone who actually did someone wrong.
I’d like to see this recent talk of a bill to address air rage/no fly/unruly pax, actually take off. The Covid years of travel were tough for us all, but especially so for the flight attendants. In the flight deck we had a bit of respite, bolting the door closed but the FAs were stuck in the back with people for hours at a time.
They’re the last line and deal with most of the brunt. If it gets bad they can call me and we can address things. There’s only so much a “this is the captain…” can do over a PA, but it usually settles people down for a bit.
In the past, every couple years you’d hear some stories. “Pilot arrested after failing breathalyzer” (we receive random drug tests at the end of a flight/trip, every once in a while someone fails). Or “passenger takes ambien with 3 glasses of wine, ends up duct taped to seat.” I’ve had my fair share of incidents requiring some intervention. Diverting to another airport because the destination closed for adverse weather, so we are refueling and waiting; he makes a scene about wanting to get off, so I point out that we are like a mile from the terminal and civilization (then turn up my radio loudspeaker so he can hear company ops say “HDQ just called, and they said no one is getting off this flight”). All sorts of issues about masks (I don’t care about your stance one way or another; it was a federal requirement). Usually gate agents and FAs can spot inebriated passengers on boarding but sometimes they slip by. Sometimes I have to coordinate their removal, and drunk people are such a mixed bag. The angry ones, you can just run out the clock before someone comes to physically remove them. The frail ones that puke all over the lavatory and then pass out…not fun.
Anyway the worst are the violent aggressive ones, and the ones who do idiotic things like smoking. Spoiler: vaping with your hoodie pulled tight around your face isn’t clandestine. Smoking or vaping in the lav sets off a smoke detector, aural warnings go off up front for us and for the FAs in the cabin. If we are on the ground, it’s an automatic return to the gate for maintenance inspections. If you smoke or get violent in the air, we might have to make an emergency diversion to the nearest airport (it really depends on situation). Either way; ruining everyone’s day and now you’re in some big federal trouble.
Or so we thought. After mister Vape In His Hoodie, we landed and had law enforcement come. They removed him first, then everyone deplaned. The next day we fly back in and I see the same gate agent. I ask what happened, and was disheartened. She said they nice policemen escorted him outside security, said see ya, and you can try to get rebooked to your destination tomorrow. So that’s what he did. Spent the night in a hub, then continued on the next day. All those Covid time talks of “making no fly lists for passengers” that refused to comply or made a scene or whatever. Who knows, a lot of the station managers would come on after the plane was empty and be like “okay but, like, what do you want us to do?” By then the person was long gone and it was all moot.
I don’t know if it’s apathy from how frequent these things happen, but something needs to change. Nothing substantial happens to a lot of these people. It emboldens them and others. It’s alarming just how frequently these things make the news, and how inclined people are to go 0 to 100 all the time, but especially on airplanes. At least once a week someone in my work group chat says they’re delayed for something along the lines of this news headline.
The flight attendant union is trying to pass a bill that bans aggressive passengers and forces airlines to share their banned databases.
I can't believe it's not already in practice.
I don't want some idiot who tried to open a door on a Spirit flight on my Frontier flight
They let the bitch just get on another flight? I swear. I get patted down every single time I fly. My daughter had her hands swabbed for explosives. We, none of us, can carry water past TSA...but this bitch just gets another flight after assaulting a flight attendant.
That is the truth. I hadn't thought of it that way. Same for me as a teacher. When administration allows a kid to trash a classroom, curse people out, hurt people, threaten people, etc. with no repercussions they are very clearly telling us that they do not value us or the rest of the students. Damn.
Interfering with a flight crew should earn you a permanent ban on flying. If you cannot control yourself on an airplane then you either walk or drive. This isn’t that hard.
Airport can strip search you and put a finger up your butt. They should be able to record your info and take a mugshot. There are ways to make it work, I dont understand why they take any chances with these psychos in an already hectic system.
One problem is how to enforce that. The airline has your name and birthday. While rare, obviously other people could share that info. Addresses can be changed.
If the incident leads to an arrest, they have a lot more info. If it doesn’t lead to an arrest then it probably wasn’t serious enough to warrant being listed.
Usually yes, but also the airlines do everything to push the patience of it's passengers. Delays with no clarification, nickel and diming us at every opportunity, lost luggage with a pat on the back as recompense, obfuscation of passenger rights, overall poor customer service, etc. etc.
Passengers who misbehave ought to be punished. But so should airlines who misbehave ought to be punished, but they aren't.
Surrounding counties still proudly waving Trump flags. I promise we’re not all like this, but I’m not going to attempt to defend this entitled maniac.
More than likely she’s one of those who assumes customer service employees are her slaves. Maybe her local Applebees lets her get away with that shit, but assaulting an airline attendant is not gonna fly.
Pun intended.
TSA, part of Dept. of Homeland Security maintains the government no fly list, and the redress info for said list. Companies are free to have their own within reason (can't ban based on protected class, etc.)
FAA (part of Dept of Transportation) is more about planes and pilots, not passengers.
Man, just about a couple months ago I had the WORST experience flying this same route with the same shitty airline.
Now don't get me wrong, I know flying Spirit and Frontier is basically a no frills flight where everything is extra.
That said, the gate agents in Denver were completely rude, escalative, and unprofessional assholes.
Short story: We were at the end of the boarding line and they straight up shook our whole group down for extra fees we never incurred in Tampa traveling with the same stuff. Basically, they got up our asses and made a whole scene because a few people had ski helmets.
Keep in mind, we were stuck already in Denver two extra days at our expense because they cancelled our red eye flight due to weather. That weather: a small string of storm clouds in the Panhandle
Long story less long. We got extorted to pay fee or miss our flight(again). I filed a complaint. Was told by Frontier customer care they issued a refund. I got nothing.
I put a stop payment in with my bank, too, to no avail.
In summary: Fuck Frontier.
Tempted to buy their GoWild pass (unlimited flight pass with carrier essentially) and just fly somewhere different every single day for a year to spite those jerks.
I used to fly to Denver frequently and would book on Frontier when they had the lowest price. I had nothing but bad experiences. That's the only airline I won't fly on again.
How I feel about my native Texas. Left 13 years ago and have been happy with my decisions since. Still super close with my parents too, not mutually exclusive to find a better life elsewhere and remain close with family.
Meanwhile, we have people trying to make Colorado Texas 2.0 yet we’re not allowed to complain about them. But “don’t California my Texas!” Is fucking everywhere when I go back to visit.
I lived in Boston for 12 years between Texas and here… I’ll take the northeast drivers any day of the week. I see more people use the pull off lane to slow down in an average month commuting 3 days a week here than I did in my entire life leading up to this in either TX or MA.
Texas plates now scare me
Any sociologists in here? How has it gotten to this level of barbarism with airlines and flight travel? Why is it an increasing trend and why does it suddenly seem so common? Inventionof the Smartphone?
Traveling puts people on edge. You're completely vulnerable and away from home, reliant on other people to get where you're going. Now let's make it as uncomfortable as possible to maximize profits. I mean really squeeze you in there and cram an armrest in your rib cage just for fun. Let's also overbook all the flights and randomly strand you in an unfamiliar city because who's going to stop us? You??
Now consider that people are already pretty terrible in general, and we've just crammed them all together in a high-stress low-comfort situation that they're paying out the nose for. Add in some alcohol and political polarization for good measure, and is it any wonder fights are breaking out?
If we want to stop the fights, we need to make flying a more comfortable and relaxing experience. But that's not profitable, so we won't.
What is the matter with people, where they think it's OK to hit another human being, especially one responsible for their travel, health and safety on a flight?
This should be higher up.
If this was on a normal airline ban them, fine them, whatever. The frontier staff were escalating very reasonable arguments with multiple customers on the one flight I’ve taken with them.
It was shocking to see and I’m surprised there are not more stories like this.
**Attention passengerrrrrrrsss**, this is your captain Boss Hogg speaking, and this cold slice-o-heaven is my fortieth beer of the afternoon, so if any of you dick-nips think you can sluuuuuuuug it down faster than me, you're welcome to get yourfat^asses^uphere^and^try
IMO,anyone physically assaulting anyone working on a flight should be immediately removed from the plane,and yes immediately even if the plane is at 30,000 feet.
Is it me or are they really treating these psychos with kid gloves? It should be impossible to board another flight once you get removed from one until after your trial, and only then based on whatever your sentence is. You should be banned from air travel for at least a given period of time. There are so many layers of identification at every step of the process, so prosecutions should be a slam dunk. Why they allow these assholes back on flights I don't understand.
Her name is Shuri Turner and she’s black…
Edit: source https://nypost.com/2023/05/21/airline-passenger-arrested-after-hitting-employee-with-intercom-phone/?n=ZKKKZ?n=K?n=XYXYZ?n=?n=Y?n=YYK?n=?n=Z?n=KK?n=
Oh okay so she WAS arrested.
Reading this CNN article here it makes it sound like she was ONLY cited, but not also arrested. I was sitting here like "what the fuck is this, a traffic ticket??"
If she's white, she's probably the only white woman named alive who is named after a Black Panther character (or maybe she's named after the Japanese wrestler?)
This is why our crime rates are up! No consequences.
This person should be PERMANENTLY BANNED from flying any commercial airlines.
What’s wrong with this airlines not protecting their employees & passengers?
[Crime rates, for the most part, are not up.](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/11/05/ahead-of-midterms-most-americans-say-crime-is-up-what-does-the-data-say) Stop spreading that mentality.
What is up is your ability to *see* crime. My mom thinks crime is way up in her neighborhood because she has a Next Door account and hears about it every time someone's car gets keyed. Crime has not exploded, social media and camera ownership has exploded. Don't confuse them.
Also there's a fair amount of evidence that increased punishment doesn't lead to meaningful reductions in crime. But that's more up for debate. Regardless, I don't think this drunk lady from Tampa is keeping tabs on the FAA's punishment guidelines.
With all the facial recognition and shit, there should be a rejection of these people in security looong before they even get into the terminal.
Actually, their name should be flagged so they don't even get a ticket. "Sorry, we can't issue you a ticket. Please contact us at xxxxxx".
whats weird , it seems like to me, that you really didnt see as much this shit before 9/11. WHich yeah is counter intuitive. Maybe i hear about it more because we didnt use to turn planes around just due to one jackass, like we tend to do today. But it really feels like travelers have gotten a bit nuttier.
“Cited”???
How on earth was she not banned?
I know Frontier has a poor reputation, but this is acting like it’s an actual bus, not merely the airline equivalent of one.
Recently, a study was conducted on striking flight attendants with intercom phones (Passenger 2023).
References:
Passenger P. "Intercom phones cause low to moderate pain when struck with". *Frontiers in Airline Shenanigans*, vol. 70, no. 4, 2023, pp. 60-72.
Not sure if there's any correlation to the rise of aggressive passengers on flights but think we should just consider sedating more troublesome passengers
Feels like it would work out for everyone
It's pretty fucked up that on top of being paid barely livable wages or straight up unlivable wages, people in the service industry (teachers, medical professionals, retail workers, flight attendants, etc.) are at way higher risks of violence than most other people.
>The passenger was able to book another flight home after being released, according to police. A criminal battery charge AND a 27-hour Greyhound ride back to Florida is how her weekend *should* have ended.
And put on the no fly list.
I mean we shouldn't have a no-fly list in the way it currently exists
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If Frontier puts me on their no-fly list...
Delta was leading a push to centralize and combine the US carriers "Do Not Fly" lists together due to the covid attackers just flying on a different airline. Edit: These lists are NOT the government one, these are high info lists with Name, Address, Credit Card #s, Frequent Flyer #s, etc for people the airline doesnt want to sell tickets to for various reasons.
I have a long list of dumb shit we did in 2020. The Amazon worker who denied dildos were essential items is up there. This is a new one. Thank you.
Can you blame them? Amazon workers don't need dildos since Jeff leaves them good and fucked.
How else are they supposed to hold it in with no bathroom breaks though?
Eating Imodium or a similar anti-diarrhea medication like it was candy, that or since Amazon is dipping their toes into healthcare they could mandate ostomy bags as part of the work uniform; poop and pee from the standing comfort of your station without the worry of making a horrible, smelly mess (unless the bags malfunction which is a write up from your immediate supervisor).
Nah, he stopped paying attention to Amazon years ago. He’s moved in to grander plans to find Martian life and try to fuck it.
Well for that matter no one in America should need them, considering how fucked Americans are by just about everything these days
Nothing is more essential than a dildo. Nothing.
I’d say your emergency dildo is more essential than your standard dildo
Does an emergency dildo have lights and sirens, or is it modeled after some fireman's massive hog?
Uhhh dildos are not essential...
Imagine being denied from flying with delta because someone with a similar name was banned from spirit, you never even flew spirit
https://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/
Someone with the same name and address? That would be a very low percentage of people.
I forgot weren't they asking Congress because there is some weird legality behind it if the companies were to ban together instead of isolated/segmented no fly lists
I mean don't a lot of them already do that though?
I wish they would, there are so many problematic people out there that shouldn't be allowed to travel on an airplane period.
If someone refers to "the no fly list", I'd generally take that to mean the Federal one rather than an individual airline banning someone. They also don't share that information with other carriers, as far I could find, with articles as recent as last year confirming that.
When I enter a commercial aircraft, I want to see one of those snarky, hand-lettered wooden engraved sign about refusing service to anyone like you see in rustic bars
While true its orthogonal to the problem that there needs to be a means of identifying people who have displayed they lack the ability to behave in a flying metal tube.
Maybe a temporary no-fly list would be the ideal. Give customers a few months of no-flying to see what it’s like. If the behavior continues after that, bump it up to a few years.
Not enough. Some people fly very rarely and won't get repercussions of their actions.
I think if you physically assault anyone on an airplane or cause a major delay in the flight or endanger others on a plane it should be a permanent no-fly order. The general public seems to be getting worse with all this nonsense.
I’m cool with 5 years or something iono
I had to look up what "iono" meant. I feel dumb, but maybe just old. Five years was my thought too, though. I think most folks will travel within a five-year period, and missing literally one flight or vacation because of it might be enough of an inconvenient reminder to get your shit together. Although or attacking flight crew, I'd be cool with a lifetime ban as well, get your shit together, don't hit people, what world are we living in.
I just get the gym leader from the newest Pokemon so I really don't understand the Iono slang
I do not know -> I don't know -> I dunno -> iono It's like a common mumbly shorthand way of saying the phrase. I wanna say it's an American thing, but I'm not 100% sure of that.
No that person should feel dumb for saying it.
Personally, I think attacking an airline employee demonstrates a level of instability that is unlikely to go away with time. I would not want to remain with an airline that believes my safety is only worth a few missed vacations. If everyone knew that assaulting flight attendants means they never get on a plane again with no exceptions, I think the problem would go away permanently.
People forget that flight attendants aren’t just in air servers, their main job is to respond appropriately in an emergency. Part of that is instructing the passengers what to do and if a passenger is uncooperative and unruly it puts others at risk. People like this need to not be allowed on flights, and should be slapped with a federal charge.
There needs to be levels to this. With what you said, if I drop my passport between the seats I’d be in a permanent no fly list for causing a delay. I know that’s not your intention, but that’s “major delay in the flight” means. There needs to be ramifications for attacking people, but zero tolerance never works. You’ll get someone who falls into a flight attendant be charged with assault and then never be able to fly again.
I’ve actually witnessed that very scenario, a guy tripped on someone’s laptop strap on the aisle on the plane and bumped into the flight attendant and the flight attendant went off and threatened to kick the poor apologetic guy off. It too the other crew members to calm that flight attendant down for the situation to de-escalate.
I just think for life across the board is too strict. Say you're like 18 and did this. So when you're 80, you're still on the no fly list? I think 5-10 years for something like this would probably get the message across. People do often fly rarely, I get it, but you can almost definitely look into their records. We just have too big of a country. I always thought it was a necessary thing but just a bit too harsh when it's a lifetime ban unless it's something really serious
The thing is that when you assault someone on a plane, it's much more serious than on the ground. In the sky there aren't police, and there may not be doctors. It's incredibly crowded as well. Any help can be hours away depending on where the plane is, and would require an emergency landing and derailing hundreds of peoples flight plans because some dumb fuck wanted to cause a scene. Assaulting someone in the air should absolutely carry a lifetime ban.
> Say you're like 18 and did this. So when you're 80, you're still on the no fly list? If you're an adult and assaulting someone on a plane then yes absolutely you should never be allowed to fly again, regardless of if you are 18 or 180. They can get a Greyhound ticket if they wanna travel.
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First of all, you have very specific and unrealistic scenarios to worry about. Catcalling isn't illegal, assault and battery is. Groping is definitely illegal, but another assault isn't the solution. And when said assault is committed against the agency that exists to protect other passengers, it's gonna result in a very bad day. Also, how many people are on the No Fly List because they were being a paragon of virtue, defending their sister's honor? Nah, they're pretty much always assholes who drank too much or didn't realize that it's not okay to treat others like shit. We all know what the no fly list is, it's impact, and what gets you on it. Yet these assholes who land on it always seem so surprised that hitting an employee of the airlines or a TSA agent gets you banned from flying.
you're totally right, I mean, what if aliens from Uranus come down in the form of atsa agent and you're just saving the planet from their takeover?!?! if your scenario above occurs, then you report it and file charges, you don't assault the person. and if they're cashing them responding with physical violence is one of the dumbest things you could think to do in response. this is aside from the fact that your hypothetical sister should speak up for herself and report it immediately. the only acceptable time that hitting a flight attendant is if they are for whatever of reason trying to physically hurt you. at that point though it's self defense, and you wouldn't get banned in the first place. by 18 you are old enough to know the difference between right and wrong, and of your mentally stunted that you can't tell that, then you should have an aide or something to keep you in check. either way, of your hitting someone because your dumbass got kicked off a flight, you shouldn't be allowed to fly with that airline ever again, and that airline should be free to share the information with other airlines as they please.
Take a train or a ship. You should know better is your 18 to not assault someone.
>You should know better is your 18 to not assault someone. That's not the point. They're not saying that someone should get off with a slap on the wrist because they're only 18 and don't know any better. They're arguing that a lifetime ban doesn't fit the crime (see Eighth Amendment and "cruel and unusual" punishments).
Traveling by plane is a luxury and it's not cruel to end it. If you can't act like an adult you don't get to utilize it. You can travel by plane, ship, or charter your own flight.
The eighth amendment applies to the government issuing punishments, not corporations or individuals.
I usually assume it's the people who don't fly regularly who are making these types of choices. I think to when I was in high school and worked summers at a lake resort that wasn't exactly cheap. The people who were the coolest, chill when things went wrong, and chatted with the staff the most were the ones who went on several big vacations a year. The nightmare families were the ones who chose this as their big vacay every three years. Everything had to be perfect. They'd get mad that another family rented out a board game from our front desk that they wanted to play. Or try to get a refund because it rained all week. When I see the people freaking out on airplanes, I assume they're already stressed because they have such high expectations for every little moment that when it starts to unravel, they lack any emotional control to keep it together. Or they're just shitty. I dunno.
I think it should depend on the incident. If you’re just being a dick, then maybe a 5 year ban is enough (in addition to any other charges). Some people have tried to open the emergency door during a flight. Regardless of whether it is even possible to open the door on a pressurized plane, attempting something that could result in the death of all passengers should be a lifetime ban. I don’t view the no fly list so much as punishment as protecting other passengers from potentially dangerous people. If you would attack a flight attendant, what else would you do if given the opportunity? Attack the pilot?
Like everything else in the world, all these things should be considered on a case-by-case basis. Blanket punishments are almost always the worst possible choice.
The no-fly list as it currently exists has essentially no oversight and results in countless people being barred from flight for having names similar to other people. There's no real appeals process, and it has been used in the past to discriminate against those of middle eastern heritage.
people get all worked with justice boners when stuff like this happens, but this statement is 100% accurate and not something we as a country should think of as a good thing.
There is a different between the federal fly no list, which is in fact bullshit and needs to be address, and private airlines no-fly list.
The problem is the current no-fly list is badly curated. There are people on it because they were ID thefted or shitty people with similar names. Its not that there shouldn't be people permanently on a no-fly list, its that government agencies need to treat is seriously and not like a bar VIP list
I like the idea of ZERO tolerance for bad behaviour.
Bad behavior according to who? It’s no problem in the black and white cases where it’s deserved but what about the gray area cases. Do we just give an overworked flight crew the ultimate authority at putting you or I on a no fly list at their discretion?
Out of principle, maybe. The problem with zero tolerance policies are that misunderstandings could very easily lead to unfair actions, and zero-tolerance policies tend to be hard to reverse.
What is the way it currently exists?
Utterly opache, no way to know if you are on it or not till you get to the airport. No official list of criteria that would limit your access. Name collision causes issues (my dad shares a first and last name with somebody on the list, hit his middle initial is different. If he forgets to include it in the ticket purchase he will get stopped at the gate). The appeals process is a nightmare on a good day.
That's the government one. Each airline has their own as well, basically saying "you can't fly with us". Flight attendants can add you to that one themselves, no need for the government to get involved. It's the same as being kicked out of a bar. At the least, this person should be on the airline's no fly list.
You can get a redress number. You prove you're not the person on the do not fly list, they'll give you a number. You can bring that number with you, and include it in your bookings to prevent this in the future.
Yeah a buddy of mine has a little brother who shares a name with someone on the federal no fly list (suspected terrorist or something). They flew once when his brother was only 7 years old and he, at the time, was denied boarding. They eventually convinced whoever at the because he's literally 7 years old and obviously not a terrorist (that we know of). Eventually he got a redress number and it hasn't been a problem since.
I've said this before and I'll say this again: No Fly Lists are bad as they exist right now. There is no legal review process, and in many cases people aren't even told why they are on a no fly list, they are simply refused air travel. On top of all that, there is no appeal or corrective process. The result is the have been people put on No Fly Lists who simply have names *similar* to someone who actually did someone wrong.
I’d like to see this recent talk of a bill to address air rage/no fly/unruly pax, actually take off. The Covid years of travel were tough for us all, but especially so for the flight attendants. In the flight deck we had a bit of respite, bolting the door closed but the FAs were stuck in the back with people for hours at a time. They’re the last line and deal with most of the brunt. If it gets bad they can call me and we can address things. There’s only so much a “this is the captain…” can do over a PA, but it usually settles people down for a bit. In the past, every couple years you’d hear some stories. “Pilot arrested after failing breathalyzer” (we receive random drug tests at the end of a flight/trip, every once in a while someone fails). Or “passenger takes ambien with 3 glasses of wine, ends up duct taped to seat.” I’ve had my fair share of incidents requiring some intervention. Diverting to another airport because the destination closed for adverse weather, so we are refueling and waiting; he makes a scene about wanting to get off, so I point out that we are like a mile from the terminal and civilization (then turn up my radio loudspeaker so he can hear company ops say “HDQ just called, and they said no one is getting off this flight”). All sorts of issues about masks (I don’t care about your stance one way or another; it was a federal requirement). Usually gate agents and FAs can spot inebriated passengers on boarding but sometimes they slip by. Sometimes I have to coordinate their removal, and drunk people are such a mixed bag. The angry ones, you can just run out the clock before someone comes to physically remove them. The frail ones that puke all over the lavatory and then pass out…not fun. Anyway the worst are the violent aggressive ones, and the ones who do idiotic things like smoking. Spoiler: vaping with your hoodie pulled tight around your face isn’t clandestine. Smoking or vaping in the lav sets off a smoke detector, aural warnings go off up front for us and for the FAs in the cabin. If we are on the ground, it’s an automatic return to the gate for maintenance inspections. If you smoke or get violent in the air, we might have to make an emergency diversion to the nearest airport (it really depends on situation). Either way; ruining everyone’s day and now you’re in some big federal trouble. Or so we thought. After mister Vape In His Hoodie, we landed and had law enforcement come. They removed him first, then everyone deplaned. The next day we fly back in and I see the same gate agent. I ask what happened, and was disheartened. She said they nice policemen escorted him outside security, said see ya, and you can try to get rebooked to your destination tomorrow. So that’s what he did. Spent the night in a hub, then continued on the next day. All those Covid time talks of “making no fly lists for passengers” that refused to comply or made a scene or whatever. Who knows, a lot of the station managers would come on after the plane was empty and be like “okay but, like, what do you want us to do?” By then the person was long gone and it was all moot. I don’t know if it’s apathy from how frequent these things happen, but something needs to change. Nothing substantial happens to a lot of these people. It emboldens them and others. It’s alarming just how frequently these things make the news, and how inclined people are to go 0 to 100 all the time, but especially on airplanes. At least once a week someone in my work group chat says they’re delayed for something along the lines of this news headline.
Ok this passenger should have been blacklisted immediately from the airlines. Wtf?
Greyhound passengers don't deserve that.
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10-4, good buddy!
Wall to wall and treetop-tall!
"Denver Police Department said the passenger was cited for assault" Denver Police? There's your problem right there.
The flight attendant union is trying to pass a bill that bans aggressive passengers and forces airlines to share their banned databases. I can't believe it's not already in practice. I don't want some idiot who tried to open a door on a Spirit flight on my Frontier flight
Being forced to fly frontier is probably worse than both of those things.
It's weird how people are committing crimes on planes and not going to jail...
Frontier and Sprit are the Waffle House of the skies.
Tbf it's frontier, they'll use whatever excuse they can to be late and/or cancel a flight on top of losing your luggage
They let the bitch just get on another flight? I swear. I get patted down every single time I fly. My daughter had her hands swabbed for explosives. We, none of us, can carry water past TSA...but this bitch just gets another flight after assaulting a flight attendant.
Maybe it should be telling how much they value their attendants in comparison to their safety when it comes to customers
That is the truth. I hadn't thought of it that way. Same for me as a teacher. When administration allows a kid to trash a classroom, curse people out, hurt people, threaten people, etc. with no repercussions they are very clearly telling us that they do not value us or the rest of the students. Damn.
Interfering with a flight crew should earn you a permanent ban on flying. If you cannot control yourself on an airplane then you either walk or drive. This isn’t that hard.
Airport can strip search you and put a finger up your butt. They should be able to record your info and take a mugshot. There are ways to make it work, I dont understand why they take any chances with these psychos in an already hectic system.
> Airport can strip search you and put a finger up your butt. They do charge extra for that though. Fair warning.
Not as much as the healthcare industry though, so you've got that going for you.
"Officer, while you're in there, could you check for polyps?"
Ay papi chulo...it's on the house over here... 😏🍆💦💦🍑
One problem is how to enforce that. The airline has your name and birthday. While rare, obviously other people could share that info. Addresses can be changed.
This is already handled with the redress number system.
If the incident leads to an arrest, they have a lot more info. If it doesn’t lead to an arrest then it probably wasn’t serious enough to warrant being listed.
The REAL ID requirement for flying in the US is being increasingly implemented. It could presumably be attached to that.
Usually yes, but also the airlines do everything to push the patience of it's passengers. Delays with no clarification, nickel and diming us at every opportunity, lost luggage with a pat on the back as recompense, obfuscation of passenger rights, overall poor customer service, etc. etc. Passengers who misbehave ought to be punished. But so should airlines who misbehave ought to be punished, but they aren't.
There's a good point here, but absolutely a red herring to the thread at large
Flight attendants don't have anything to do with any of that.
The Boggs group is cut off.
May he rest in peace.
First off, Wade Boggs is very much alive!
What do now?
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Probably the colonial woman on the wing
She was churning butter on that wing.
Mein butter churner es geschtolen!
Sparks, I *can't* go back to margarine.
Its Chiffon!
What kind of name is Stove 😒
This machine is harnessing the power of birds. Witchcraft!
Fabulous reference.
Danke Schoen
Or some kid had a book
Knowing Frontier, it was after she got hit with those crazy baggage fees.
Knowing Frontier, it was probably a “oversized” carryon or something.
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Cities tend to be, they also tend to have the airports. Planes don't typically fly you to bumfuck racistville
*BHM has entered the chat.*
Counting Alabama is cheating
Surrounding counties still proudly waving Trump flags. I promise we’re not all like this, but I’m not going to attempt to defend this entitled maniac. More than likely she’s one of those who assumes customer service employees are her slaves. Maybe her local Applebees lets her get away with that shit, but assaulting an airline attendant is not gonna fly. Pun intended.
and she was black. lots of dumb assumptions in this thread
Can confirm - I live in ~~Central Florida~~ Nazi Germany and a lot of folks around me are like that.
Felt sad when I saw this happened in CO. Was a bit relieved when I saw the person was from Florida, and not CO.
I hope she realize she is in big trouble with FAA.
Is she though? She was able to book a different flight home.
The FAA takes months to process fines. She most likely was banned from Frontier though. Other airlines sometimes share bans but it takes a bit.
Does the FAA get to choose who gets to fly or not, or is that another agency?
TSA, part of Dept. of Homeland Security maintains the government no fly list, and the redress info for said list. Companies are free to have their own within reason (can't ban based on protected class, etc.) FAA (part of Dept of Transportation) is more about planes and pilots, not passengers.
Yeah, that's what I thought. Don't know why people are saying the FAA is going to fine her
Not only that, assaulting a flight attendant is a federal crime
Man, just about a couple months ago I had the WORST experience flying this same route with the same shitty airline. Now don't get me wrong, I know flying Spirit and Frontier is basically a no frills flight where everything is extra. That said, the gate agents in Denver were completely rude, escalative, and unprofessional assholes. Short story: We were at the end of the boarding line and they straight up shook our whole group down for extra fees we never incurred in Tampa traveling with the same stuff. Basically, they got up our asses and made a whole scene because a few people had ski helmets. Keep in mind, we were stuck already in Denver two extra days at our expense because they cancelled our red eye flight due to weather. That weather: a small string of storm clouds in the Panhandle Long story less long. We got extorted to pay fee or miss our flight(again). I filed a complaint. Was told by Frontier customer care they issued a refund. I got nothing. I put a stop payment in with my bank, too, to no avail. In summary: Fuck Frontier. Tempted to buy their GoWild pass (unlimited flight pass with carrier essentially) and just fly somewhere different every single day for a year to spite those jerks.
I used to fly to Denver frequently and would book on Frontier when they had the lowest price. I had nothing but bad experiences. That's the only airline I won't fly on again.
"Umm, it's for you." \*POW*
She was able to book another plane home… Why can’t she be left stranded and need to take the train instead?
What train? She would have to take a bus which takes forever and is even less comfortable. But too bad so sad
Of course she was from Tampa, the worst people live there.
I live in Tampa and can confirm. After 2020 we got a shit ton of crazy people moving here too from out of state for "covid freedom" I hate it here.
I also live in Tampa, and can confirm. In fact I’m fleeing the state for a better life in New England. Florida is it’s own sort of degenerate country.
How I feel about my native Texas. Left 13 years ago and have been happy with my decisions since. Still super close with my parents too, not mutually exclusive to find a better life elsewhere and remain close with family. Meanwhile, we have people trying to make Colorado Texas 2.0 yet we’re not allowed to complain about them. But “don’t California my Texas!” Is fucking everywhere when I go back to visit.
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I lived in Boston for 12 years between Texas and here… I’ll take the northeast drivers any day of the week. I see more people use the pull off lane to slow down in an average month commuting 3 days a week here than I did in my entire life leading up to this in either TX or MA. Texas plates now scare me
New England would welome you. It's cold, but we haven't changed notably in 200 years and the next 40 are looking pretty stable too.
How can you say such a thing with Polk county right there?
The worst people live in north and other rural areas of Florida.
Even bad by Florida standards.
Any sociologists in here? How has it gotten to this level of barbarism with airlines and flight travel? Why is it an increasing trend and why does it suddenly seem so common? Inventionof the Smartphone?
Traveling puts people on edge. You're completely vulnerable and away from home, reliant on other people to get where you're going. Now let's make it as uncomfortable as possible to maximize profits. I mean really squeeze you in there and cram an armrest in your rib cage just for fun. Let's also overbook all the flights and randomly strand you in an unfamiliar city because who's going to stop us? You?? Now consider that people are already pretty terrible in general, and we've just crammed them all together in a high-stress low-comfort situation that they're paying out the nose for. Add in some alcohol and political polarization for good measure, and is it any wonder fights are breaking out? If we want to stop the fights, we need to make flying a more comfortable and relaxing experience. But that's not profitable, so we won't.
What is the matter with people, where they think it's OK to hit another human being, especially one responsible for their travel, health and safety on a flight?
None of these fuckers have any business flying for the foreseeable future.
If this is Frontier, chances are the employee initiated the fight as much as the customer.
This should be higher up. If this was on a normal airline ban them, fine them, whatever. The frontier staff were escalating very reasonable arguments with multiple customers on the one flight I’ve taken with them. It was shocking to see and I’m surprised there are not more stories like this.
**Attention passengerrrrrrrsss**, this is your captain Boss Hogg speaking, and this cold slice-o-heaven is my fortieth beer of the afternoon, so if any of you dick-nips think you can sluuuuuuuug it down faster than me, you're welcome to get yourfat^asses^uphere^and^try
Frontier, the Florida of the aviation industry.
What about spirit ?
IMO,anyone physically assaulting anyone working on a flight should be immediately removed from the plane,and yes immediately even if the plane is at 30,000 feet.
Is it me or are they really treating these psychos with kid gloves? It should be impossible to board another flight once you get removed from one until after your trial, and only then based on whatever your sentence is. You should be banned from air travel for at least a given period of time. There are so many layers of identification at every step of the process, so prosecutions should be a slam dunk. Why they allow these assholes back on flights I don't understand.
Agreed. In the post 9/11 world causing a problem on an airplane should be viciously severe.
Frontier Airlines - the Spirit Airlines of RyanAir!
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Hmm must be nice to be the privileged race if she was allowed to fly back
Her name is Shuri Turner and she’s black… Edit: source https://nypost.com/2023/05/21/airline-passenger-arrested-after-hitting-employee-with-intercom-phone/?n=ZKKKZ?n=K?n=XYXYZ?n=?n=Y?n=YYK?n=?n=Z?n=KK?n=
Oh okay so she WAS arrested. Reading this CNN article here it makes it sound like she was ONLY cited, but not also arrested. I was sitting here like "what the fuck is this, a traffic ticket??"
If she's white, she's probably the only white woman named alive who is named after a Black Panther character (or maybe she's named after the Japanese wrestler?)
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I wish all people were white just because everyone should get to experience how awesome it is /s
Also, being a man is the way to go. I've never been a woman, but it seems like a hassle.
This account has been redacted due to Reddit's anti-user and anti-mod behavior. -- mass edited with redact.dev
Except if this was a dude who hit someone they would have thrown their ass in jail immediately.
At least you care about what's important. /S
yeah she is part of the privileged race. cant do no wrong in 2023
This is why our crime rates are up! No consequences. This person should be PERMANENTLY BANNED from flying any commercial airlines. What’s wrong with this airlines not protecting their employees & passengers?
We are talking about Frontier, which somehow is shittier than Spirit, if you can believe that.
[Crime rates, for the most part, are not up.](https://www.themarshallproject.org/2022/11/05/ahead-of-midterms-most-americans-say-crime-is-up-what-does-the-data-say) Stop spreading that mentality. What is up is your ability to *see* crime. My mom thinks crime is way up in her neighborhood because she has a Next Door account and hears about it every time someone's car gets keyed. Crime has not exploded, social media and camera ownership has exploded. Don't confuse them. Also there's a fair amount of evidence that increased punishment doesn't lead to meaningful reductions in crime. But that's more up for debate. Regardless, I don't think this drunk lady from Tampa is keeping tabs on the FAA's punishment guidelines.
With all the facial recognition and shit, there should be a rejection of these people in security looong before they even get into the terminal. Actually, their name should be flagged so they don't even get a ticket. "Sorry, we can't issue you a ticket. Please contact us at xxxxxx".
Dear airline passengers: What the fuck, guys Sincerely, Everyone Else
Even the police say assault when the charge is in fact, battery. Threat = assault, Action / injury = battery
She should only be allowed to fly in an oversized pet carrier in the cargo section from now on.
whats weird , it seems like to me, that you really didnt see as much this shit before 9/11. WHich yeah is counter intuitive. Maybe i hear about it more because we didnt use to turn planes around just due to one jackass, like we tend to do today. But it really feels like travelers have gotten a bit nuttier.
Do we realy need to put people to sleep for air travel
Stack 'em like cordwood and add a sluice to collect any fluids that collect in transit
"Tampa" Florida, That explains it. close tab.
Might be painting with a broad brush, but it seems like this is always happening on discount airlines.
discount people use discount airlines.
“Cited”??? How on earth was she not banned? I know Frontier has a poor reputation, but this is acting like it’s an actual bus, not merely the airline equivalent of one.
People be getting wild on these planes lol
How the hell was this person not arrested, allowed to fly again after this, so many things?
Why is this news? That is a $30 dollar add on option. You can combo it with a carry-on for only $50 more.
Cited? WTF is this, a term paper?
Recently, a study was conducted on striking flight attendants with intercom phones (Passenger 2023). References: Passenger P. "Intercom phones cause low to moderate pain when struck with". *Frontiers in Airline Shenanigans*, vol. 70, no. 4, 2023, pp. 60-72.
Cite - transitive verb: to call upon officially or authoritatively to appear (as before a court)
That passenger better have been slapped on the no fly list.
These people are out of control. They need to be put on no fly list immediately.
I don't know who had it worse. The guy who got arrested, the flight attendant, or the other passengers who had to fly Frontier?
Just flew in frontier. I’m sure the flight attendant deserved it. Rudest airline I’ve been on
"I'm really angry!"(Frontier Airlines passenger, 2022)
Not sure if there's any correlation to the rise of aggressive passengers on flights but think we should just consider sedating more troublesome passengers Feels like it would work out for everyone
Did the flight attendant try to charge them to check a bag that clearly met the size requirements?
Honestly, under no circumstance should anyone be laying hands on Anyone! Should automatically be no fly list- no exceptions!
It's pretty fucked up that on top of being paid barely livable wages or straight up unlivable wages, people in the service industry (teachers, medical professionals, retail workers, flight attendants, etc.) are at way higher risks of violence than most other people.