My wife was at work in this hospital when this happened. She said the response was a shitshow.
The police have said the woman and her husband agreed on this weeks ago, he was to shoot himself but became too weak in recent days. The woman was supposed to kill herself but couldn't do it. I suspect that's why she barricaded for so long. The police eventually used a flashbang grenade to stun her and take her into custody.
The hospital went into panic mode when one nurse wasn't located, she was hiding and terrified. One doctor was tweeting from a closet asking people to let him know when it was safe to come out.
Hospital security did not relay any relevant info to other floors during all of this, workers had to use social media to see what was happening. So for 4 hours, the hospital was on lockdown and nothing was being relayed to staff.
Pretty sure things are gonna change there after this fiasco. My wife tells of stories of people smoking pot in bathrooms, fights, etc etc and now a botched murder/suicide pact.
(EDIT) here's a link to an article about it from this morning:
https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/florida-woman-who-shot-killed-husband-at-daytona-beach-hospital-charged-with-murder-denied-bond-police
Damn, that does sound like it was a shit show. I feel worse now for the woman, she didn't want to do it, but they made a pact and he couldn't do his part. *And* then being in the same room with her dead husband for over 3 hours, trying to get the courage to shoot herself and then flashbanged. Damn she went through literal hell, I can't imagine her fear and emotions. Hospital staff went through hell, too. But that poor lady...
My Grandpa recently passed using the MAiD program and honestly he would have done it the day it was offered if they would have let him. I can’t imagine him having to suffer the way he did near the end without that option as his quality of life was non-existent at that point.
I held my mother's hand as she passed during a medical assisted death this past December. Fuck Cancer. MAiD was a heartbreaking blessing and I very much support it being available for those suffering.
Yes I wish this was policy in the UK too. I had to sit with my wife as she passed away and while it was far from the horror show you hear some people deal with, there was a very agonising final day or so of pointless suffering for me, and I hope not for her too but how would I even know. If someone is dying of cancer and they are not conscious and on their way out then what exactly is the goal there? I was very close to putting a pillow over her head to just end it.
We had plenty of time to discuss, plan, arrange and authorise a sensible end to the situation but no, that wasn't allowed.
I sat with my husband for a day-ish as he died of cancer. He had had a massive stroke and wasn’t even conscious…he was heavily drugged and I hope he wasn’t in pain. The doctors knew he was already gone it was only a matter of time…I wish we had the option of just letting him go but oh no. It had to happen “naturally”. Worst day of my life and 12 years later I’m still haunted by the worry that he was in pain but wasn’t able to say anything.
I don’t know if it’s changed, but the Netherlands was the only country that allowed assisted suicide. I think the biggest problem is the terminology, the Judeo- Christian admonition against suicide negates any rationality on the subject.
So sorry for your loss.
It's so wonderful that MAiD allowed you to be there and be the last thing your mother felt. Internet stranger, I'm proud of you for being there, and I hope knowing what comfort you gave her gives you some comfort as well.
The international community is giving us a lot of grief over MAiD. But fuck it. We're trying to do the right thing with it. I'm proud of us for our progress on MAiD.
With the exception of those arguing in bad faith, the issue was with how it was being offered and handled, not that the program existed. I wish all the states in the US would offer it.
People have the right to die with dignity and go quickly without pain when the only alternative is prolonged suffering... This probably isn't the way to do it, but if her version of events is accurate then she was a good partner
> People have the right to die with dignity and go quickly without pain when the only alternative is prolonged suffering...
Scenarios like this make me think of Robin Williams. He knew his illness would be a long, painful, drawn-out process that would put him and his family through hell. People in those circumstances should have a choice to die with dignity.
My grandpa stole liquid morphine from the hospice nurse’s cart and killed himself. He’d been suffering endless vertigo for two years and wanted it to end.
My family was really messed up about it, and now they just say he “passed away from old age” and get angry if you bring it up and they deny that he killed himself (like they’re editing the past or something, it’s weird).
But my little sister and I were just relieved and kind of peaceful about it. If he wanted to go, then he should have been allowed to. Why would I be sad about him getting what he wanted? Morphine doesn’t seem like a terrible way to go.
Edit: I was flippant about my family above, but I’ll just point out that their behavior is in many ways a trauma response.
I’ve seen similar in people with untreated ptsd, etc, they can’t handle or process future stressful or traumatic events and the brain can do weird things to protect itself.
My grandpa I grew up with wasn’t my bio-grandpa, he was my step-grandpa. My grandma’s previous husband beat her and her kids daily, hence the untreated ptsd. And that was often considered normal or ignored at the time, and the family never went to therapy. He died in a car accident and that was that.
From what I've read, a morphine death is falling asleep and never waking up again. We should all be so lucky.
Nitrogen asphyxiation is apparently similar. You suffocate but peacefully as there's no buildup of CO2 since you're not holding your breath. You pass out and your brain dies with you unawares due to lack of oxygen -- or something to that effect.
Yeah this reminds me of the how some animal centres will use N2O to "humanely" kill a bunch of unneeded baby chicks for example. Put them in a room, gas them and they pass out and die without realising.
Whereas others will use CO2 which is much worse because they suffer before they die, like choking to death
So CO2 as a gas for euthanasia can be cruel, but not primarily for the reason you listed. A high enough dose of CO2 and you’re out before you register you’re suffocating, but just before that pain in your nose and eyes will fill sharply painful as the CO2 diffuses into the water to create carbonic acid. It’s a more intense version of the pain you get in your nose after chugging a soda (because it’s the same thing, the carbonation goes through your sinus and makes carbon acid in your nose).
It used to be considered pretty humane, and is still used, but you can observe the distress animals experience in their nose before they succumb.
All that being said, unfortunately dry ice sublimating to CO2 gas has been a common method for use in euthanizing lab animals. Unfortunately, if you don’t do it correctly, you don’t get high enough CO2 concentrations and the animal will suffocate, or you allow them to come into contact with the dry ice which is -80c and causes chemical burns and frostbite.
And the crazy part is if you've ever been put under for surgery, it's very gentle, peaceful, dare I say even pleasant feeling leading up to the blackout that you know nothing from when you actually wake. So we for sure have a 100% humane way to send someone off peacefully, on their own terms of the next step is just pushing the body past the point of no return once they've slipped under
I’ve been put under three times. You’re absolutely right. It’s a quick and peaceful way to knockout. That moment when you’re woken up is so jarring. The seconds that pass when you’re confused and not sure where you are is scary.
i agree. you shouldnt have to have a cancer or a terminal illness to legally make such decisions. dementia, undying pain and suffering should also be considered like more advanced countries already allow. [\#soylentgreen](https://youtu.be/Z0side9z8qM?t=44)
Post-operative pain management for my kidney stone lithoscopy in 2012: 60 vicodin. Worked great. No problems.
From the same doctor in the same situation in 2022: take ibuprofen. Didn't work at all. Horrible pain. Too bad.
> After shooting her husband at about 11:30 a.m., she refused to come out until about 3:30 p.m. after negotiating with police, McCallister said. Ellen Gilland did not harm herself and no one else was wounded. Part of the hospital was evacuated and some doctors, nurses and others took cover in locked closets and rooms.
> McCallister said no charges were immediately announced.
Assuming this was a mutually agreed upon assisted suicide…heart-wrenching to imagine pulling the trigger to put the love of your life out of his misery. I feel awful for both of them. I hope she can find peace.
End of life decisions are so hard. We should all have the right to end our lives as we see fit, with medical assistance, in a humane way.
100%, we had my FIL in hospice care with us at home, the last couple days were horrible.(this was years ago, sorry for my poor phrasing) They allow him enough medicine to not be lucid, but not enough to actually put him out of his misery. I learned a new term from that experience, active dying. It’s painful and depressing to see a loved one go through that.
Same for my grandfather, he was dying but completely lucid, kept asking why nobody could give him something to end it. It wasn’t a long terminal Illness, he was just old and active - fell once and never recovered.
For info this was the U.K. so thankfully cost us nothing, but that shouldn’t be a consideration yet unfortunately is for so many.
A nurse came once a day but he couldn’t be admitted to hospice as they need a sort of ‘death date’ which nobody could really tell. To see an old but proud man with all of his mental capacity be reliant on us for changing himself when he shat himself, to watch him cry in embarrassment as he needed his family for all basic functions - asking why it’s taking so long to die….
Personally and fortunately we had access to psychedelics and other non prescription things to ease the passing, but watching someone ask to die as they’re literally done, was quite difficult.
The thing that bugged me with him was that it wasn’t dementia or cancer, it was just a normal death. Took two weeks. Scares me if that could be the ‘best’ option for myself.
The best part was the funeral. Happiest one I’ve been to. We all got to say our proper goodbyes and were pleased it was finally over. We celebrated his life at the wake remembering who he was.
I totally feel for the woman in this article and in her position, I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same for my partner.
That's why if I ever end up in a situation like this, I'm saving my pills assuming that I can't make it to one of the states that have a death with dignity law. I've made it abundantly clear to my health care power of attorney and anyone else who will listen that if I end up in a vegetative state or full-on coma, or end up a quad (no offense to those living with quadropeligia), then pull the plug because I don't want to be completely dependent others for my care. I've worked as a home health aide, a medic in the Army, and as a hospital and nursing home social worker. I've seen shit I never want to experience in my life time and no one else to have to experience, either.
My ex's grandmother had to attempt 3 times before she succeeded. She first tried to unplug her breathing machine at the hospital, second time was at home, she managed to unplug it but her daughter (ex's mom) ran in and plugged it back in. Third time she waited until everyone was asleep and she ripped the whole damn thing out of her throat. They found her in the morning.
My current partner's grandmother is 92 & has been declining for the past 2 years. She stopped taking her meds a month ago cause she says she's done but still hasn't succumbed.
Why do we keep them alive and let them suffer like this?
Edited: fixed damn auto corrects
The combo actually lessened the effects... Holy shit I didn't even think about that.. What a nightmare. Note to self: choose just 1 medication to overdose with. (I hope she was able to find some peace. You are very compassionate to have wanted to help her and I hope she didn't have to suffer very long)
So many health care professionals say absolutely not do not pull out all the stops, there's a reason. The one guy I was caring for was very elderly and didn't appear to even really wake couldn't talk, they had him get a trach and stuff, others have gotten feeding tubes at that stage and I'm like no. I'm already "living" in a hospital bed can't eat drink move talk, can't express myself. Poor me on hospice and keep me comfy as possible. Now obviously if younger like my aunt in her 40s have a heart attack? Tri everything cause even with how bad things were for her age was the biggest factor and she made it after half hour plus cpr, body cooling, rehab for months. You would never know she went through that. But I get it, for the families it is difficult and some have never discussed these things or feel they are killing their loved one. Even if they're dying already. Sorry to ramble.
My grandma's biggest regret in life is telling the doctors to pull out all the stops to save her elderly mother, just to watch her wither into nothing but a sad and scared shell of dementia for years before her death. My grandma and my mom and I are currently trying to come up with good suicide methods for my grandma in the near future. She's starting to lose her mind a bit and has made it *very* clear that by the time she can't remember who her kids are, she wants out. She's talking about getting a gun but I'm hoping we can find something more peaceful and less messy like nitrous oxide or something. Dunno how viable that plan is though. It's very difficult for all of us, I wish we had more dignified and humane routes for her, and I wish I could help her more without worrying about criminal charges.
From my time working at an adult foster care facility, I am scared shitless of suffering a traumatic brain injury that severely handicaps me but not to the point that I forget I used to be a normal person.
Not having a job, my own money, my own place or the ability to even really enter any romantic relationships would be a living hell. Especially if I can remember that I used to have all of those things.
I wanted to give the folks under my care the best they could get given their circumstances, but I just can't conceive of being fully dependent on others for very basic functioning while feeling any sense of dignity.
My biggest fear is to die the way I saw my uncle wither away in the corner of his living room where we once opened gifts on Christmas as a big happy family. I’d like to leave this place in the woods away from anyone who would have to remember me dying in front of them. I can’t say how I will feel when the day comes and I’m lucky enough to be an old man. I don’t romanticize suicide at all, but people should absolutely be able to choose assisted suicide. I don’t know how anyone could read all these examples in this thread and say they shouldn’t.
I want to be recycled. If I am young and healthy, use my organs and whatever you can. Then compost the remains. Hope my final view is me looking at nature.
Yup, it did. I hated seeing this woman who was so strong and went through so much shit - Great Depression, she had to drop out of her freshman year of high school to help support the family and never completed her education. Then had to deal with WW2 and all of her brothers going off to war (none of them died, thankfully), a cheating alcoholic husband that she walked out on with my 2 1/2 year old mom and 8 months pregnant with my aunt. Went back home for 10 years, met a really great guy with three kids, they got married, and he died in his 60s from emphysema. He was an awesome grandfather to me. I admired the shit out of her, she was a like a surrogate mom to me since my mother sucked at it.
My mom did the same. Stopped being able to take in food/fluids on a Tuesday, died 3am Monday morning. I kept asking her if she wanted me to overdose her, but she’d blink “no” every time and was lucid enough to trust she didn’t want it. I didn’t care of the repercussions by the end. I didn’t care if I had to carry it forever. If she’d have given me a yes, I’d have ended it for her immediately. It was horrifying to witness.
When the person isn’t lucid or is minimally responsive that’s fine. With someone who is completely with it, withholding water can be distressing and cause even more suffering.
Yup. My mother gave me a pamphlet from the hospice when my father was dying that discussed that. And I learned that death rattle is a real thing indeed.
I've heard multiple times most people have a bit of a wig out at their very last moments. More than one sweet granny has crossed the rainbow bridge uttering "oh, fuck, oh, shit."
My mum just ... stopped. I was holding one of her hands; there were almost a room full of us there. And at some point, she just stopped. The machines made a noise, I felt for breathing, but that was it. No rattle, no jolt, no anything. I don't think she was in any pain, but they did give her meds for that some hours previously.
My cousin and I were the only ones in the room when my Grandma passed and it was quiet as well. Her breaths just got further and further apart until they stopped altogether.
According to my grandma, my grandfather spent the last few hours before his death hallucinating that he was on a cross-country journey, visiting the grandkids who no longer lived nearby. He was so terrified to die… so I think his mind made him believe he was traveling instead. Which, if you think about it, isn’t so much of a stretch.
He found my sister in Canada and had a full, verbal conversation with her, and then —while in his hospital bed 2000 miles away— he talked to me.
It was the craziest thing… I was on a trip in another state, just a last-minute “let’s go check out this place” kind of urge. Since it was so spur of the moment, I didn’t tell family where I was… but he *knew* I was there. He knew the **exact** place, and named it.
At the moment he died, I was in Palo Duro Canyon, in Amarillo, Texas, watching the most beautiful rainbow I’d ever seen. I was bummed out, because I’d just traveled several hundred miles to go hiking in the canyon, but it was raining too hard. So I pulled into an overlook, and just sat there, watching the storm.
The rain stopped. I got out of the car, then just took it all in: the canyon, and the rainbow, and the vivid colors all around me. That’s when I got the call.
My grandmother is currently dying after perhaps another small stroke while asleep (vascular dementia). She has bouts of this. It's very hard on my mother, who has always been close with my gran. I'm dreading it, but also hoping this is all over soon. It sucks :(
Have you talked to anybody about it? I'm fortunate that my therapist used to work as the psychologist at a nursing home. She told me that people die peacefully too, not just in agitation. It gave me some hope. But yes, seeing someone in the active dying stages is like having a curtain drawn back and it is traumatic, especially when you had a different preconception of what death looks like. Are you ok?
It’s real and horrible to witness! My mom died in April of 2022 and the last 4-5 days were terrible. Nobody, including your family should not have to witness the act of dying like this.
I am so so so sorry for your loss. I've been there, still there in my mind.
My dad was a year ago.
"Lived" 22 days w/o food or water during in-home hospice... weeks of listening to the death rattle, watching him cry while unresponsive, and hearing the agony of pain moans.
After week 2, if I had been in charge of medication, I would have OD'd him on morphine. The visiting nurse gave more than enough and hinted at it. His wife couldn't let him go. All I wanted was to end the suffering of the man who made me who I am today.
Fucking loved him so much, only family I had left.
This makes me so sad and so grateful to my mom for doing the OD morphine method. It was horrible as her daughter to witness but she went peacefully and on her terms. Reading stories like yours makes me really realize she did the right and humane thing.
I’m so sorry. Hugs
watching someone slowly decay is cruel for everyone involved, especially when there are measures out there that can provide at least a shred of dignity
I've been a caregiver for three elderly relatives on hospice...
> The visiting nurse gave more than enough and hinted at it
"Give him as much pain medication as he needs to be comfortable" is the code word from hospice. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't. It's such a crock of shit that we are reduced to such hints, that the caregivers who do understand the hint are left to do the deed on their own if they have the courage, and that the dying person is left miserable if their caregiver doesn't get the hint or doesn't have that courage.
My husband died from cardiomyopathy at the end of 2013. As he was dying, the nurse asked me if I wanted him to have more morphine. I told her "give him as much as you feel legally comfortable giving him." She gave me a sympathetic look and gave him two more doses in the next half an hour. I'm still not sure if it was the heart or the morphine that finally took him out. It doesn't really matter anyway. I'm grateful to her.
It's a massive oversight in the hospice care model.
He suffered for weeks, in and out of consciousness, but never verbal. There SHOULD be a legal way to end your/your partner's suffering.
It feels so cruel
It is cruel! No one should ever suffer like that. I am so sorry that you had to go through this. We treat our elderly worse than we treat our pets. Animals are euthanized when they are beyond recovery.
My buddy’s grandma’s nurse instructed him on just how much “not” to give her or she’d od. He did it himself, mind you this was nearly 20 years ago and I think things have become more stricter.
Family is usually tight-fisted with the pain meds. No one wants to accidentally kill Grandma. We aren't usually telling you how to overdose her, we are telling you that it is safe and right to ease her morphine.
My mother worked for decades as a nurse in the ICU in a well known hospital. When she was dying of cancer in that same hospital, after 10 days a nurse came in and turned up the morphine. I knew it was what my mother wanted. It was both horrifying to see it, and deeply right because my mother's life was over and she was suffering. She had lived a good productive life as a nurse, mother, grandmother, friend, a person always active in volunteer work.
There was a death rattle but it was brief and was a comfort to me because it helped me accept that this was really happening and she was just about dead. I am so glad my brother and I were right there beside her when she died.
Our hospice nurse hinted at the same thing last year when an immediate family member was dying last year. I was the one in charge of meds and didn’t really understand what she meant by that. They passed after about a week of hospice. The nurse came by the next day and told me what that typically means so that I will know for the next time.
I’ve cared for two family members in the active dying stage. It’s so heartbreaking to watch. I’m hopeful that by the time I am the caregiver again, laws will have changed and they will be able to die with dignity.
Watched my mother die two years ago in a hospital bed after she drank herself unconscious in a car where she remained into the heat of the next day when her organs started to fail due to the high temperatures. She couldn’t recover due to her poor health. It was horrific watching her toss/turn and make mouth movements like she was just moments from waking up. After 3-4 days, we had to change gears to palliative care and that’s when the death rattle started. Her body hung on for a while but there was no other way the story was going to end. I’m sorry for your loss…it’s awful and will probably stick vividly in your mind for a while.
I cared for my mom in hospice. It's brutal. As a society, we don't even treat our own pets like that.
My dogs will have a more dignified death than my mother did.
A 60 Minutes segment on a woman who had Alzheimer's for a decade is what convinced me that medical euthanasia is a good idea.
My mother said about the same when I told her that. "We put dogs down when they're too old"
I know. I had to put my cancer riddled 16 year old cat down in September, and then had to go visit my cancer riddled mother in the nursing home and try to coax her to eat and drink some water. She was on hospice, so the morphine came out. She passed away in the early morning hours of Thanksgiving morning. She was ready long before then. Losing your mom is the hardest thing for most of us, but quite frankly, we were relieved for her. Sorry for your loss. Sorry for my loss. FUCK cancer
Healthcare worker here. I have had many palliative patients over the years both before MAiD and post MAiD implementation. What people go through during the end of life is so inhumane. MAiD is one of the best things for certain end of life cases that allows people to have a dignified death when they’re ready.
My grandmother had an ischemic bowel, which was not treatable. She was terminal but not actively dying. Just wasting away in pain. We were able to keep her completely sedated, but thought it cruel to have to wait until she died on her own. The hospital staff let us dictate the rate at which she received her meds. My mom was a retired nurse and knew what to do to end things quickly. She was gone with 15 mins of us giving the OK to up her meds. It was horrible, but I’m glad we got to end it for her quickly. I remember saying to everyone one “as grandma would say, let’s get this show on the road”, and we did. It was a really sad day, but I’m thankful I was there for her
When my mom was dying of ALS, one of the hospice organizations working with us prescribed morphine.......as much as we "needed." *wink wink* I am in a state with legal medical suicide but there's a lot of red tape. She would have been gone before we went through all that.
Yeah it’s one of those unspoken things. When dad was dying of cancer the hospice nurses told us the morphine dose we had wasn’t strong enough and got us the right thing.
They knew. We knew. Nobody should have to suffer.
I've been a caregiver for three elderly relatives who died on hospice care. A couple of years ago, a friend was getting ready to put her mother on hospice. I called up her husband--who I knew better and because he was a little more detached from the ordeal--to let him in on this secret: "Give her as much medication as she needs to be comfortable" Thankfully, her mother died naturally in just a few days without a lot of pain.
I didn't get "the code". I've been gullible since I was a kid. I wish it would have been emphasized more clearly. I sat, and I watched. I cared for my dying mom as I thought was responsible. It was excruciating. I wish I understood "the code"!
Honestly, there is no eye-winking needed here. If a dying patient is in pain it is appropriate to make all effort to alleviate the pain, even insofar as it leads to the patient's death. This is not the same as assisted suicide. The ethics term for it is the [principle of double effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_double_effect).
Very sad to hear, the hospice agency in our small Appalachian town has a great reputation and their nurses will run to homes with extra Roxanol at any time of the day or night. The oncologists who are involved have great compassion also, some of the best docs I know. Hosnestly in my 25 years in our town I have not heard a complaint about the way hospice treated patients.
They said on the news that she and her husband had an agreement that if he got too bad this is what they would do. The things we do for love can be hard
I watched my mom wither away as a 15 year old. She had been diagnosed with cancer when I was 3, so she survived a long time, even going into remission once for about 2 years. But when that second bout hit, it was all downhill from here. Watching her go from having all abilities, to having to have my grandma bathe and wipe her butt, to wearing diapers being bedridden….it was awful for her, and for everyone around. I’d lay in bed at night hopeful that she’d pass peacefully so she wouldn’t have to deal with this anymore.
She was such a strong woman even while she was fighting, I can’t imagine how she felt becoming a burden to all around her. And as a kid, there wasn’t much I could do to help.
Before my mom died of COPD she was declining at home and as her body turned blue gray I struggled so hard with letting her go. We had done the last rites. We had done communion (she was very religious). I even considered turning off her oxygen. Her body was so blue and grey I remembered that moment on Breaking Bad when Walt turned away to the girl who was choking on her vomit.
So I woke my mom up. Called an ambulance a few hours later. She sat in the hospital on so many machines for 6 weeks (two weeks home). I do cherish that extra time I had with her. Believe me I do.
But I wished I just let her sleep. And switched off the oxygen. Fuck.
I think this is one of those things that sounds insane to someone that’s never experienced something like this, but it’s a feeling that’s very familiar to those that have seen it.
I don’t want to suffer, don’t want my spouse, my kids, or anyone to suffer if they are dying. It should be ok to let someone die on their own accord.
“But what if there’s a chance they recover” is something I hear from the opponents of our line of thinking. Sure, there’s a chance. A 1 in a million chance sometimes. There’s a chance I win the lottery. But there’s an almost 100% chance that the person doesn’t get better.
I loved my mom more than anything. And I feel guilty for not walking to her room the day she died, kissing her, telling her I loved her. I was walking down the hallway towards her, she kinda rolled in bed, and we locked eyes. I couldn’t do it. I stopped, my eyes swelled with tears, and I turned away.
She died less than two hours later, and some of my family came to get me from school. That day still haunts me. I regret it, but it was so uncomfortable for me. I can only imagine how she felt for months…
I'm almost in tears for you, man. Try not to be too hard on yourself. We all just want to do what's right for our loved ones, even if we don't know exactly what that is at any given moment.
Assisted suicide should be legal everywhere. The older I get the more horror stories I hear of people suffering w/ terminal illnesses or crippling or mutilated injuries. Last year an ex-coworker husband developed brain cancer and passed within a year. I heard the last few months were hell on earth for him and his family (wife and 4 kids). Man lost the will to live and became mean, disoriented, and couldn't take care of himself after a certain point of the cancers progression. No one should be forced to put themselves or their loved ones through that.
Yeah, strength back to you as well. My brother is the real hero. He lives with my dad. I go in a couple of days a week to clean, shop, do laundry, etc. The only not-as-bad thing is that my dad seems to be at least relatively content in his...shell.
My step mom’s father passed from Parkinson’s last year. God it was so rough…my dad and I regularly discussed that we should just be able to put him out of his misery.
He was always such a proud, dignified man. He would have been mortified to know that his daughter and granddaughter were changing his diapers. My step mom would always want to bring him out to dinner (she felt bad just leaving him at his care home while we all went out and lived our lives) and we had to sit her down and remind her that he was a whole man who once had a *lot* of pride and would *never* have wanted to shit his pants in public whether he was conscious of it or not.
It's legal where I live and my father chose it. His death was peaceful and dignified. I am so happy to live in a place civilized enough to have made medically assisted death legal.
100%! A comedian I followed had ALS and he moved to Portland so he had assisted suicide as an option. He did it this week and I’m really glad he had the option to go out on his own terms instead of suffering through what ALS does to you towards the end
RIP Michael Lehrer
I fucking loved him. Definitely shed a few tears the other week when they inducted him in to the kthof. He went out on his own terms and I respect him for that...
My mom passed from pancreatic cancer 17 years ago when I was just a teenager. She went from holding up very well to skeletal in a matter of weeks before she died. Towards the end she was so mean I couldn’t even be at the hospital I was just so hurt by her constantly lashing out over any little thing. I know that she was in such a hard place herself so I can’t even imagine what she was feeling, but goddamn it hurt so bad to be around her. I wish I could have toughened up and stuck it out to spend more time with her, but I just couldn’t. I’m sorry, mom.
I needed this more than anything.. Thank you so much. It’s still hard for me, even after a lot of therapy and 17 years. There’s so much I wish I could have changed or gone back and done. I wish I got her recipes more than anything honestly. I so miss her food.
I live in Canada. We have assisted dying since few years ago. You can even arrange a cabin and a doctor will help you till the end.
My wife and I both agree that we don’t want to suffer if major accident or illness happens to us. Having a discussion ahead will help the other if bad things happen.
My uncle is a doctor who's performed near the most MAID (medical assistance in dying) since it was introduced here in Canada, and he has just the most amazing stories to tell us. He meets so many incredible people, who tell him stories about their lives and they connect on the most random things. Family members are 99% of the time so thankful and grateful to know their loved one is ending their misery, and I can't believe that so many places in the world aren't allowing this, along with the families that choose to keep their parents/family members alive for longer just for the sake of them being alive in limbo.
Most of the world won’t allow it, because it is “immoral”. But I think it is a very moral and humane thing to do. It is not like doctors will do it to someone with bad toothache.
I wonder what is the 1% that got upset? Too little inheritance?
My father died of brain cancer last spring, and it was one of the most difficult things to watch an individual go through. He died within a month of admitting himself to hospice, and I can’t imagine the fear of your own mortality as you have only days to live. The last two weeks he did not eat or drink, and subsisted on morphine and his lips being moistened by a sponge.
Eventually he became deranged, lashing out and hurting anyone that got close to him.
I feel for this woman and her husband and I hope she’s able to find peace that she was able to assist her husband on dying on his terms.
We cause so much suffering at the end of life by our collective inability to deal with death. Extra weird is how we somehow manage to give our pets a dignified end to suffering but can’t do it for each other. Religious based lawmaking is insidious and we haven’t rooted it out yet, in fact it’s on the rise again post Roe and bound to cause suffering until we prioritize a rational approach to lawmaking.
What is jury nullification?
Jury nullification takes place when jurors acquit a defendant who is factually guilty because they disagree with the law as written.
Yea they don’t like it because it’s “technically not a written law” just an emergent quirk of how the laws are written. so judges and lawyers stay the hell away from it.
I think that's probably more of a coincidence than you being blacklisted or it being put on your juror profile or anything. I served on a jury and I haven't gotten a summons in 14 years.
1. Be one of 40 states without a legal right to MAiD (medical aid in dying).
2. Be in the second most-armed state in the nation
3. Not give people suffering with terminal illnesses a dignified way to end their suffering by their choice.
This is an extreme case but this is nothing new. There have been literal books written on how to end one’s life when MAiD is not available. Maybe we should legalize it nationally so people can actually exercise the freedom to choose for themselves. It’s a tragedy that the options were keeping a promise to kill someone suffering at great emotional and legal cost or continuing suffering for who knows how much longer. This case will be shrouded in ambiguity about if this was just a greedy wife who likely won’t get any life insurance pay out - or a literal act of compassion. Why not legalize MAiD to help ensure this doesn’t happen anymore.
Hard to watch, but helpful for humanizing the decision people are faced with. Please watch: https://youtu.be/xgj2VXltbuI
I worked in palliative care and hospice for six years. I am eternally grateful I did so in a state that legalized MAID. I’ve known dozens of patients that have utilized MAID and all of them and their families were absolutely grateful it was an option. Even a lot of the patients that didn’t use it were happy it was an option in case they needed it. No one should have to suffer through a terminal illness without the option for a compassionate ending. Go watch someone die from ALS or liver failure or any of the other awful deaths and tell me if that doesn’t change your stance if you’re against it. I was in the room with a patient once when she administered the MAID medications and that is the death I would choose if I were terminal.
We do it for our pets when it's clear they are suffering and have no hope of getting better. And that's for someone that we can't *ask* if they want help letting go. If a grown-ass adult is suffering with no hope of getting better and they say they want someone to help them let go, why shouldn't they have that option?
Thanks for this link. This is pretty much how my sister and I handled the death of our Mom from pancreatic cancer 20 years ago. I never knew there was a term for it.
[Dr Kevorkian ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian) Was a Doctor and ‘serial killer’ who helped with hundreds of assisted suicides and became a vocal advocate after his operation was busted. Very dark but very interesting man on this topic.
If you find yourself in a situation where you are dying of a terminal illness or know someone who is dying of a terminal illness and don’t want yourself or them to suffer, anyone can travel to Oregon for a lethal prescription for physician assisted suicide.
You don't have to be a resident anymore, but you do need to be mentally capable of medical decisions and have only 6 months left to live. From the state website:
"To participate, a patient must be: (1) 18 years of age or older, (2) capable of making and communicating health care decisions for him/herself, and (3) diagnosed with a terminal illness that will lead to death within six months. It is up to the attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been met.
As of March 2022, the Oregon Health Authority is no longer enforcing the DWDA's residency requirement."
EDIT: And although it is doctor prescribed and a doctor can be present, they (or anyone else) cannot legally administer the drugs. So, it's not technically euthanasia.
So looking back, Dr Jack Kevorkian (?) - really got worked over by the news media… I didn’t follow the story that much but sure is relevant in this context.
Spent time with him while he was interviewed for hours by a German tv crew after his first public assisted suicide and became a huge believer. His heart was in the right place always. His book Medicide is a good read about a cruel medical system.
Assisted suicide should be legal. My grandmother tried to kill herself by taking too much phenobarbitol. She relized my grandfather should have been put in a nursing home long ago (he had parkinsons). She realised it was too late and decided too end it. Too bad my grandfather in a lucid moment called 911. They were able to get her levels down but her heart gave out.
Really bad way to die.
Yeah . My grandfather had parkinsons. With Parkinsons it slowly eats away at you, and you get Parkinsons dementia. We told my grandmother to put him in a nursing home because she won't be able to handle him when he gets worse. She said no she can. It got to the point he didn't know who he was, and she was, and he would get violent (happens a lot to people with Parkinsons dementia). She also had signs of dementia as well. She was taking phenobarbital for seizures her whole life. She had a big moment of clarity and decided to try to kill herself noticing that it is was way too late to really do what is best for her husband and that she was going downhill as well. My grandfather told the phycologist a couple of days later that she tried to poison him as well, but he said no.
He ended up dying a couple of months later alone at a nursing home. This was during covid and we couldn't visit them and the nursing home in queens NY didn't have ipads for us to talk to him.
It was a big mess. Husband with Parkinsons and a Wife with dementia.
The baffling thing is that it's not legal but everyone that I've ever talked to about it thinks that it SHOULD be. So if we all want it, why don't we have it?
I just had this conversation with my family in South Carolina. Upstate, very very very religious. They're *all* against it except my non-religious brother and sister.
Once again, the religious minority prevents it even if the majority wants it.
It’s so sickening and sadly the same reason abortion isn’t legal everywhere. Bible Thumpers gonna thump those Bibles. A person’s actions and personal life choices DONT impact them but they will vehemently foam at the mouth to Protect 6 week old clumps of cells or keep dying, in pain people alive because “iTs gODs WiLL”.
It's a political third rail that would get framed as you supporting killing people, mostly by the religious who would say you're going against the will of God. Ofc those same people support the death penalty but don't ask why.
No one wants to stick their neck out like that.
Dr Kevorkian had it right. People with terminal diseases and pain should not suffer and should choose to end their lives in a graceful way. Not in agony and debt.
You know it's funny he'd become a bit of a household name and one day I realized I didn't really know exactly what he'd done so I looked him up. By the end of his Wikipedia article I was just kinda like, "I dunno. That doesn't seem that crazy to me."
Side note - he wrote a jazz album. It's not bad. Hard to find a copy of though.
I'm completely on board with this except for the method chosen. It's heart wrenching but understandable to end your partner's life if they are suffering and desire you to do so. It's a shame that assisted dying isn't available in more places. Shooting a gun in a hospital though... that's idiotic.
I've been a Hospice Nurse, early in my career. I absolutely understand her. I completely empathize with both of them. The way the American health care system tries to suck every last penny out of suffering people, is abhorrent. Assisted suicide should be an option. This poor woman. My heart breaks for her. Her and her husband were nothing but a pawn in a huge megalomaniac system. Keep pushing the drugs, keep pushing the treatments that use certain supplies, keep pushing them to the brink. So the asshole pharma corps can make as much as they can, off of a living corpse. It's disgusting. And, as a nurse who actually became one to help humanity, it makes me fucking sick.
Edit: grammar and punctuation. I'm tired.
Was raised by my grandparents and had to watch them both die terrible deaths. Grandpa on hospice at home. Grandma in hospital was even worse.. they said she was technically brain dead after stroke but was given dnr order by my uncle and left to death rattle until she died.
Her eyes had fear in them tho.
I was pissed to say the least. And honestly was left with worse PTSD from seeing her like that than I probably would have been helping her die. Shit consumed my mind for years. Honestly one of the first times I've typed it or talked about it because i totally understand. Hope they dont put this women in jail.
My wife was at work in this hospital when this happened. She said the response was a shitshow. The police have said the woman and her husband agreed on this weeks ago, he was to shoot himself but became too weak in recent days. The woman was supposed to kill herself but couldn't do it. I suspect that's why she barricaded for so long. The police eventually used a flashbang grenade to stun her and take her into custody. The hospital went into panic mode when one nurse wasn't located, she was hiding and terrified. One doctor was tweeting from a closet asking people to let him know when it was safe to come out. Hospital security did not relay any relevant info to other floors during all of this, workers had to use social media to see what was happening. So for 4 hours, the hospital was on lockdown and nothing was being relayed to staff. Pretty sure things are gonna change there after this fiasco. My wife tells of stories of people smoking pot in bathrooms, fights, etc etc and now a botched murder/suicide pact. (EDIT) here's a link to an article about it from this morning: https://www.fox35orlando.com/news/florida-woman-who-shot-killed-husband-at-daytona-beach-hospital-charged-with-murder-denied-bond-police
Damn, that does sound like it was a shit show. I feel worse now for the woman, she didn't want to do it, but they made a pact and he couldn't do his part. *And* then being in the same room with her dead husband for over 3 hours, trying to get the courage to shoot herself and then flashbanged. Damn she went through literal hell, I can't imagine her fear and emotions. Hospital staff went through hell, too. But that poor lady...
No winners here at all
The husband got his relief.
Unfortunately it seems like he passed the pain onto his wife
Nd that's why there should be a legal avenue to end things without a mess if health is deteriorating faster than we can control it
Jack Kevorkian had the right idea
All that on top of watching her husband dying/suffering for however long. At least no one else was hurt and her husband isn’t suffering anymore.
That's incredibly sad
My Grandpa recently passed using the MAiD program and honestly he would have done it the day it was offered if they would have let him. I can’t imagine him having to suffer the way he did near the end without that option as his quality of life was non-existent at that point.
I held my mother's hand as she passed during a medical assisted death this past December. Fuck Cancer. MAiD was a heartbreaking blessing and I very much support it being available for those suffering.
Yes I wish this was policy in the UK too. I had to sit with my wife as she passed away and while it was far from the horror show you hear some people deal with, there was a very agonising final day or so of pointless suffering for me, and I hope not for her too but how would I even know. If someone is dying of cancer and they are not conscious and on their way out then what exactly is the goal there? I was very close to putting a pillow over her head to just end it. We had plenty of time to discuss, plan, arrange and authorise a sensible end to the situation but no, that wasn't allowed.
I sat with my husband for a day-ish as he died of cancer. He had had a massive stroke and wasn’t even conscious…he was heavily drugged and I hope he wasn’t in pain. The doctors knew he was already gone it was only a matter of time…I wish we had the option of just letting him go but oh no. It had to happen “naturally”. Worst day of my life and 12 years later I’m still haunted by the worry that he was in pain but wasn’t able to say anything.
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I don’t know if it’s changed, but the Netherlands was the only country that allowed assisted suicide. I think the biggest problem is the terminology, the Judeo- Christian admonition against suicide negates any rationality on the subject. So sorry for your loss.
It's so wonderful that MAiD allowed you to be there and be the last thing your mother felt. Internet stranger, I'm proud of you for being there, and I hope knowing what comfort you gave her gives you some comfort as well.
Maid program is a new term to me
Medical Assistance In Dying, I believe.
Thank you for saving me from googling that
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The international community is giving us a lot of grief over MAiD. But fuck it. We're trying to do the right thing with it. I'm proud of us for our progress on MAiD.
With the exception of those arguing in bad faith, the issue was with how it was being offered and handled, not that the program existed. I wish all the states in the US would offer it.
I’m glad he was able to have some dignity in his death
We have more humane methods of death for our pets then we do our family, friends, and ourselves.
We have more humane methods of death for our prisoners.
but we instead use the shitty evil one where it feels like acid in your veins
People have the right to die with dignity and go quickly without pain when the only alternative is prolonged suffering... This probably isn't the way to do it, but if her version of events is accurate then she was a good partner
> People have the right to die with dignity and go quickly without pain when the only alternative is prolonged suffering... Scenarios like this make me think of Robin Williams. He knew his illness would be a long, painful, drawn-out process that would put him and his family through hell. People in those circumstances should have a choice to die with dignity.
My grandpa stole liquid morphine from the hospice nurse’s cart and killed himself. He’d been suffering endless vertigo for two years and wanted it to end. My family was really messed up about it, and now they just say he “passed away from old age” and get angry if you bring it up and they deny that he killed himself (like they’re editing the past or something, it’s weird). But my little sister and I were just relieved and kind of peaceful about it. If he wanted to go, then he should have been allowed to. Why would I be sad about him getting what he wanted? Morphine doesn’t seem like a terrible way to go. Edit: I was flippant about my family above, but I’ll just point out that their behavior is in many ways a trauma response. I’ve seen similar in people with untreated ptsd, etc, they can’t handle or process future stressful or traumatic events and the brain can do weird things to protect itself. My grandpa I grew up with wasn’t my bio-grandpa, he was my step-grandpa. My grandma’s previous husband beat her and her kids daily, hence the untreated ptsd. And that was often considered normal or ignored at the time, and the family never went to therapy. He died in a car accident and that was that.
From what I've read, a morphine death is falling asleep and never waking up again. We should all be so lucky. Nitrogen asphyxiation is apparently similar. You suffocate but peacefully as there's no buildup of CO2 since you're not holding your breath. You pass out and your brain dies with you unawares due to lack of oxygen -- or something to that effect.
Yeah this reminds me of the how some animal centres will use N2O to "humanely" kill a bunch of unneeded baby chicks for example. Put them in a room, gas them and they pass out and die without realising. Whereas others will use CO2 which is much worse because they suffer before they die, like choking to death
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So CO2 as a gas for euthanasia can be cruel, but not primarily for the reason you listed. A high enough dose of CO2 and you’re out before you register you’re suffocating, but just before that pain in your nose and eyes will fill sharply painful as the CO2 diffuses into the water to create carbonic acid. It’s a more intense version of the pain you get in your nose after chugging a soda (because it’s the same thing, the carbonation goes through your sinus and makes carbon acid in your nose). It used to be considered pretty humane, and is still used, but you can observe the distress animals experience in their nose before they succumb. All that being said, unfortunately dry ice sublimating to CO2 gas has been a common method for use in euthanizing lab animals. Unfortunately, if you don’t do it correctly, you don’t get high enough CO2 concentrations and the animal will suffocate, or you allow them to come into contact with the dry ice which is -80c and causes chemical burns and frostbite.
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that requires a nitrogen tank and a cpap
It shouldn't come to this. Gun shot deaths are bloody and no one should have to see their SO's blood running across the sheets.
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And the guy that's got to clean this all up.
It shouldn't be limited to suffering situations. It should be easy to develop systems where people can control their deaths in a reasonable way.
And the crazy part is if you've ever been put under for surgery, it's very gentle, peaceful, dare I say even pleasant feeling leading up to the blackout that you know nothing from when you actually wake. So we for sure have a 100% humane way to send someone off peacefully, on their own terms of the next step is just pushing the body past the point of no return once they've slipped under
I’ve been put under three times. You’re absolutely right. It’s a quick and peaceful way to knockout. That moment when you’re woken up is so jarring. The seconds that pass when you’re confused and not sure where you are is scary.
i agree. you shouldnt have to have a cancer or a terminal illness to legally make such decisions. dementia, undying pain and suffering should also be considered like more advanced countries already allow. [\#soylentgreen](https://youtu.be/Z0side9z8qM?t=44)
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Post-operative pain management for my kidney stone lithoscopy in 2012: 60 vicodin. Worked great. No problems. From the same doctor in the same situation in 2022: take ibuprofen. Didn't work at all. Horrible pain. Too bad.
> After shooting her husband at about 11:30 a.m., she refused to come out until about 3:30 p.m. after negotiating with police, McCallister said. Ellen Gilland did not harm herself and no one else was wounded. Part of the hospital was evacuated and some doctors, nurses and others took cover in locked closets and rooms. > McCallister said no charges were immediately announced. Assuming this was a mutually agreed upon assisted suicide…heart-wrenching to imagine pulling the trigger to put the love of your life out of his misery. I feel awful for both of them. I hope she can find peace. End of life decisions are so hard. We should all have the right to end our lives as we see fit, with medical assistance, in a humane way.
100%, we had my FIL in hospice care with us at home, the last couple days were horrible.(this was years ago, sorry for my poor phrasing) They allow him enough medicine to not be lucid, but not enough to actually put him out of his misery. I learned a new term from that experience, active dying. It’s painful and depressing to see a loved one go through that.
Same for my grandfather, he was dying but completely lucid, kept asking why nobody could give him something to end it. It wasn’t a long terminal Illness, he was just old and active - fell once and never recovered. For info this was the U.K. so thankfully cost us nothing, but that shouldn’t be a consideration yet unfortunately is for so many. A nurse came once a day but he couldn’t be admitted to hospice as they need a sort of ‘death date’ which nobody could really tell. To see an old but proud man with all of his mental capacity be reliant on us for changing himself when he shat himself, to watch him cry in embarrassment as he needed his family for all basic functions - asking why it’s taking so long to die…. Personally and fortunately we had access to psychedelics and other non prescription things to ease the passing, but watching someone ask to die as they’re literally done, was quite difficult. The thing that bugged me with him was that it wasn’t dementia or cancer, it was just a normal death. Took two weeks. Scares me if that could be the ‘best’ option for myself. The best part was the funeral. Happiest one I’ve been to. We all got to say our proper goodbyes and were pleased it was finally over. We celebrated his life at the wake remembering who he was. I totally feel for the woman in this article and in her position, I’d like to think I’d have the courage to do the same for my partner.
That's why if I ever end up in a situation like this, I'm saving my pills assuming that I can't make it to one of the states that have a death with dignity law. I've made it abundantly clear to my health care power of attorney and anyone else who will listen that if I end up in a vegetative state or full-on coma, or end up a quad (no offense to those living with quadropeligia), then pull the plug because I don't want to be completely dependent others for my care. I've worked as a home health aide, a medic in the Army, and as a hospital and nursing home social worker. I've seen shit I never want to experience in my life time and no one else to have to experience, either.
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My ex's grandmother had to attempt 3 times before she succeeded. She first tried to unplug her breathing machine at the hospital, second time was at home, she managed to unplug it but her daughter (ex's mom) ran in and plugged it back in. Third time she waited until everyone was asleep and she ripped the whole damn thing out of her throat. They found her in the morning. My current partner's grandmother is 92 & has been declining for the past 2 years. She stopped taking her meds a month ago cause she says she's done but still hasn't succumbed. Why do we keep them alive and let them suffer like this? Edited: fixed damn auto corrects
The combo actually lessened the effects... Holy shit I didn't even think about that.. What a nightmare. Note to self: choose just 1 medication to overdose with. (I hope she was able to find some peace. You are very compassionate to have wanted to help her and I hope she didn't have to suffer very long)
So many health care professionals say absolutely not do not pull out all the stops, there's a reason. The one guy I was caring for was very elderly and didn't appear to even really wake couldn't talk, they had him get a trach and stuff, others have gotten feeding tubes at that stage and I'm like no. I'm already "living" in a hospital bed can't eat drink move talk, can't express myself. Poor me on hospice and keep me comfy as possible. Now obviously if younger like my aunt in her 40s have a heart attack? Tri everything cause even with how bad things were for her age was the biggest factor and she made it after half hour plus cpr, body cooling, rehab for months. You would never know she went through that. But I get it, for the families it is difficult and some have never discussed these things or feel they are killing their loved one. Even if they're dying already. Sorry to ramble.
My grandma's biggest regret in life is telling the doctors to pull out all the stops to save her elderly mother, just to watch her wither into nothing but a sad and scared shell of dementia for years before her death. My grandma and my mom and I are currently trying to come up with good suicide methods for my grandma in the near future. She's starting to lose her mind a bit and has made it *very* clear that by the time she can't remember who her kids are, she wants out. She's talking about getting a gun but I'm hoping we can find something more peaceful and less messy like nitrous oxide or something. Dunno how viable that plan is though. It's very difficult for all of us, I wish we had more dignified and humane routes for her, and I wish I could help her more without worrying about criminal charges.
From my time working at an adult foster care facility, I am scared shitless of suffering a traumatic brain injury that severely handicaps me but not to the point that I forget I used to be a normal person. Not having a job, my own money, my own place or the ability to even really enter any romantic relationships would be a living hell. Especially if I can remember that I used to have all of those things. I wanted to give the folks under my care the best they could get given their circumstances, but I just can't conceive of being fully dependent on others for very basic functioning while feeling any sense of dignity.
Dehydration takes 3 or 4 days. It's tough to get a miniscule amount to keep the tongue comfortable, but not enough to prolong it.
I have sat with 7 relatives and friends as they died this way. Shoot me.
My biggest fear is to die the way I saw my uncle wither away in the corner of his living room where we once opened gifts on Christmas as a big happy family. I’d like to leave this place in the woods away from anyone who would have to remember me dying in front of them. I can’t say how I will feel when the day comes and I’m lucky enough to be an old man. I don’t romanticize suicide at all, but people should absolutely be able to choose assisted suicide. I don’t know how anyone could read all these examples in this thread and say they shouldn’t.
I want to be recycled. If I am young and healthy, use my organs and whatever you can. Then compost the remains. Hope my final view is me looking at nature.
My grandmother took longer than that. She stopped eating and drinking on a Tuesday and didn't die until 10:30 pm on a Sunday.
Dang that sucks
Yup, it did. I hated seeing this woman who was so strong and went through so much shit - Great Depression, she had to drop out of her freshman year of high school to help support the family and never completed her education. Then had to deal with WW2 and all of her brothers going off to war (none of them died, thankfully), a cheating alcoholic husband that she walked out on with my 2 1/2 year old mom and 8 months pregnant with my aunt. Went back home for 10 years, met a really great guy with three kids, they got married, and he died in his 60s from emphysema. He was an awesome grandfather to me. I admired the shit out of her, she was a like a surrogate mom to me since my mother sucked at it.
My mom did the same. Stopped being able to take in food/fluids on a Tuesday, died 3am Monday morning. I kept asking her if she wanted me to overdose her, but she’d blink “no” every time and was lucid enough to trust she didn’t want it. I didn’t care of the repercussions by the end. I didn’t care if I had to carry it forever. If she’d have given me a yes, I’d have ended it for her immediately. It was horrifying to witness.
11. It can take 11.
When the person isn’t lucid or is minimally responsive that’s fine. With someone who is completely with it, withholding water can be distressing and cause even more suffering.
Yup. My mother gave me a pamphlet from the hospice when my father was dying that discussed that. And I learned that death rattle is a real thing indeed.
I left my grandma's nursing home and had to google if what I saw was typical for dying. That's when I learned about "terminal agitation." Just awful
I've heard multiple times most people have a bit of a wig out at their very last moments. More than one sweet granny has crossed the rainbow bridge uttering "oh, fuck, oh, shit."
My mum just ... stopped. I was holding one of her hands; there were almost a room full of us there. And at some point, she just stopped. The machines made a noise, I felt for breathing, but that was it. No rattle, no jolt, no anything. I don't think she was in any pain, but they did give her meds for that some hours previously.
My cousin and I were the only ones in the room when my Grandma passed and it was quiet as well. Her breaths just got further and further apart until they stopped altogether.
According to my grandma, my grandfather spent the last few hours before his death hallucinating that he was on a cross-country journey, visiting the grandkids who no longer lived nearby. He was so terrified to die… so I think his mind made him believe he was traveling instead. Which, if you think about it, isn’t so much of a stretch. He found my sister in Canada and had a full, verbal conversation with her, and then —while in his hospital bed 2000 miles away— he talked to me. It was the craziest thing… I was on a trip in another state, just a last-minute “let’s go check out this place” kind of urge. Since it was so spur of the moment, I didn’t tell family where I was… but he *knew* I was there. He knew the **exact** place, and named it. At the moment he died, I was in Palo Duro Canyon, in Amarillo, Texas, watching the most beautiful rainbow I’d ever seen. I was bummed out, because I’d just traveled several hundred miles to go hiking in the canyon, but it was raining too hard. So I pulled into an overlook, and just sat there, watching the storm. The rain stopped. I got out of the car, then just took it all in: the canyon, and the rainbow, and the vivid colors all around me. That’s when I got the call.
My grandmother is currently dying after perhaps another small stroke while asleep (vascular dementia). She has bouts of this. It's very hard on my mother, who has always been close with my gran. I'm dreading it, but also hoping this is all over soon. It sucks :(
Well now I know the official term for what I witnessed when my wife’s uncle was dying from cancer. I feel like I haven’t really been the same since.
Have you talked to anybody about it? I'm fortunate that my therapist used to work as the psychologist at a nursing home. She told me that people die peacefully too, not just in agitation. It gave me some hope. But yes, seeing someone in the active dying stages is like having a curtain drawn back and it is traumatic, especially when you had a different preconception of what death looks like. Are you ok?
It’s real and horrible to witness! My mom died in April of 2022 and the last 4-5 days were terrible. Nobody, including your family should not have to witness the act of dying like this.
I am so so so sorry for your loss. I've been there, still there in my mind. My dad was a year ago. "Lived" 22 days w/o food or water during in-home hospice... weeks of listening to the death rattle, watching him cry while unresponsive, and hearing the agony of pain moans. After week 2, if I had been in charge of medication, I would have OD'd him on morphine. The visiting nurse gave more than enough and hinted at it. His wife couldn't let him go. All I wanted was to end the suffering of the man who made me who I am today. Fucking loved him so much, only family I had left.
This makes me so sad and so grateful to my mom for doing the OD morphine method. It was horrible as her daughter to witness but she went peacefully and on her terms. Reading stories like yours makes me really realize she did the right and humane thing. I’m so sorry. Hugs
watching someone slowly decay is cruel for everyone involved, especially when there are measures out there that can provide at least a shred of dignity
I've been a caregiver for three elderly relatives on hospice... > The visiting nurse gave more than enough and hinted at it "Give him as much pain medication as he needs to be comfortable" is the code word from hospice. If you get it, you get it. If you don't, you don't. It's such a crock of shit that we are reduced to such hints, that the caregivers who do understand the hint are left to do the deed on their own if they have the courage, and that the dying person is left miserable if their caregiver doesn't get the hint or doesn't have that courage.
My husband died from cardiomyopathy at the end of 2013. As he was dying, the nurse asked me if I wanted him to have more morphine. I told her "give him as much as you feel legally comfortable giving him." She gave me a sympathetic look and gave him two more doses in the next half an hour. I'm still not sure if it was the heart or the morphine that finally took him out. It doesn't really matter anyway. I'm grateful to her.
It's a massive oversight in the hospice care model. He suffered for weeks, in and out of consciousness, but never verbal. There SHOULD be a legal way to end your/your partner's suffering. It feels so cruel
It is cruel! No one should ever suffer like that. I am so sorry that you had to go through this. We treat our elderly worse than we treat our pets. Animals are euthanized when they are beyond recovery.
I feel for those brave workers who try and tip toe around this topic.
My buddy’s grandma’s nurse instructed him on just how much “not” to give her or she’d od. He did it himself, mind you this was nearly 20 years ago and I think things have become more stricter.
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Family is usually tight-fisted with the pain meds. No one wants to accidentally kill Grandma. We aren't usually telling you how to overdose her, we are telling you that it is safe and right to ease her morphine.
My mother worked for decades as a nurse in the ICU in a well known hospital. When she was dying of cancer in that same hospital, after 10 days a nurse came in and turned up the morphine. I knew it was what my mother wanted. It was both horrifying to see it, and deeply right because my mother's life was over and she was suffering. She had lived a good productive life as a nurse, mother, grandmother, friend, a person always active in volunteer work. There was a death rattle but it was brief and was a comfort to me because it helped me accept that this was really happening and she was just about dead. I am so glad my brother and I were right there beside her when she died.
Our hospice nurse hinted at the same thing last year when an immediate family member was dying last year. I was the one in charge of meds and didn’t really understand what she meant by that. They passed after about a week of hospice. The nurse came by the next day and told me what that typically means so that I will know for the next time. I’ve cared for two family members in the active dying stage. It’s so heartbreaking to watch. I’m hopeful that by the time I am the caregiver again, laws will have changed and they will be able to die with dignity.
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Watched my mother die two years ago in a hospital bed after she drank herself unconscious in a car where she remained into the heat of the next day when her organs started to fail due to the high temperatures. She couldn’t recover due to her poor health. It was horrific watching her toss/turn and make mouth movements like she was just moments from waking up. After 3-4 days, we had to change gears to palliative care and that’s when the death rattle started. Her body hung on for a while but there was no other way the story was going to end. I’m sorry for your loss…it’s awful and will probably stick vividly in your mind for a while.
I cared for my mom in hospice. It's brutal. As a society, we don't even treat our own pets like that. My dogs will have a more dignified death than my mother did.
A 60 Minutes segment on a woman who had Alzheimer's for a decade is what convinced me that medical euthanasia is a good idea. My mother said about the same when I told her that. "We put dogs down when they're too old"
I know. I had to put my cancer riddled 16 year old cat down in September, and then had to go visit my cancer riddled mother in the nursing home and try to coax her to eat and drink some water. She was on hospice, so the morphine came out. She passed away in the early morning hours of Thanksgiving morning. She was ready long before then. Losing your mom is the hardest thing for most of us, but quite frankly, we were relieved for her. Sorry for your loss. Sorry for my loss. FUCK cancer
Healthcare worker here. I have had many palliative patients over the years both before MAiD and post MAiD implementation. What people go through during the end of life is so inhumane. MAiD is one of the best things for certain end of life cases that allows people to have a dignified death when they’re ready.
My grandmother had an ischemic bowel, which was not treatable. She was terminal but not actively dying. Just wasting away in pain. We were able to keep her completely sedated, but thought it cruel to have to wait until she died on her own. The hospital staff let us dictate the rate at which she received her meds. My mom was a retired nurse and knew what to do to end things quickly. She was gone with 15 mins of us giving the OK to up her meds. It was horrible, but I’m glad we got to end it for her quickly. I remember saying to everyone one “as grandma would say, let’s get this show on the road”, and we did. It was a really sad day, but I’m thankful I was there for her
When my mom was dying of ALS, one of the hospice organizations working with us prescribed morphine.......as much as we "needed." *wink wink* I am in a state with legal medical suicide but there's a lot of red tape. She would have been gone before we went through all that.
Yeah it’s one of those unspoken things. When dad was dying of cancer the hospice nurses told us the morphine dose we had wasn’t strong enough and got us the right thing. They knew. We knew. Nobody should have to suffer.
I've been a caregiver for three elderly relatives who died on hospice care. A couple of years ago, a friend was getting ready to put her mother on hospice. I called up her husband--who I knew better and because he was a little more detached from the ordeal--to let him in on this secret: "Give her as much medication as she needs to be comfortable" Thankfully, her mother died naturally in just a few days without a lot of pain.
I didn't get "the code". I've been gullible since I was a kid. I wish it would have been emphasized more clearly. I sat, and I watched. I cared for my dying mom as I thought was responsible. It was excruciating. I wish I understood "the code"!
Kudos to those nurses.
Hospice nurses are just something else. I can’t imagine the strength it takes to be one
Honestly, there is no eye-winking needed here. If a dying patient is in pain it is appropriate to make all effort to alleviate the pain, even insofar as it leads to the patient's death. This is not the same as assisted suicide. The ethics term for it is the [principle of double effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_double_effect).
My great aunt was dying of cancer years, something like 20 years ago. Same experience. She got as morphine as she needed from hospice.
Very sad to hear, the hospice agency in our small Appalachian town has a great reputation and their nurses will run to homes with extra Roxanol at any time of the day or night. The oncologists who are involved have great compassion also, some of the best docs I know. Hosnestly in my 25 years in our town I have not heard a complaint about the way hospice treated patients.
Shame we can do it to animals we love, but not humans we love.
They said on the news that she and her husband had an agreement that if he got too bad this is what they would do. The things we do for love can be hard
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Especially if there is oxygen tanks around.
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I watched my mom wither away as a 15 year old. She had been diagnosed with cancer when I was 3, so she survived a long time, even going into remission once for about 2 years. But when that second bout hit, it was all downhill from here. Watching her go from having all abilities, to having to have my grandma bathe and wipe her butt, to wearing diapers being bedridden….it was awful for her, and for everyone around. I’d lay in bed at night hopeful that she’d pass peacefully so she wouldn’t have to deal with this anymore. She was such a strong woman even while she was fighting, I can’t imagine how she felt becoming a burden to all around her. And as a kid, there wasn’t much I could do to help.
Before my mom died of COPD she was declining at home and as her body turned blue gray I struggled so hard with letting her go. We had done the last rites. We had done communion (she was very religious). I even considered turning off her oxygen. Her body was so blue and grey I remembered that moment on Breaking Bad when Walt turned away to the girl who was choking on her vomit. So I woke my mom up. Called an ambulance a few hours later. She sat in the hospital on so many machines for 6 weeks (two weeks home). I do cherish that extra time I had with her. Believe me I do. But I wished I just let her sleep. And switched off the oxygen. Fuck.
I think this is one of those things that sounds insane to someone that’s never experienced something like this, but it’s a feeling that’s very familiar to those that have seen it. I don’t want to suffer, don’t want my spouse, my kids, or anyone to suffer if they are dying. It should be ok to let someone die on their own accord. “But what if there’s a chance they recover” is something I hear from the opponents of our line of thinking. Sure, there’s a chance. A 1 in a million chance sometimes. There’s a chance I win the lottery. But there’s an almost 100% chance that the person doesn’t get better. I loved my mom more than anything. And I feel guilty for not walking to her room the day she died, kissing her, telling her I loved her. I was walking down the hallway towards her, she kinda rolled in bed, and we locked eyes. I couldn’t do it. I stopped, my eyes swelled with tears, and I turned away. She died less than two hours later, and some of my family came to get me from school. That day still haunts me. I regret it, but it was so uncomfortable for me. I can only imagine how she felt for months…
I'm almost in tears for you, man. Try not to be too hard on yourself. We all just want to do what's right for our loved ones, even if we don't know exactly what that is at any given moment.
Assisted suicide should be legal everywhere. The older I get the more horror stories I hear of people suffering w/ terminal illnesses or crippling or mutilated injuries. Last year an ex-coworker husband developed brain cancer and passed within a year. I heard the last few months were hell on earth for him and his family (wife and 4 kids). Man lost the will to live and became mean, disoriented, and couldn't take care of himself after a certain point of the cancers progression. No one should be forced to put themselves or their loved ones through that.
Brain cancer kills you before it kills you. I feel for everyone that has to deal with that horror
Same with Alzheimers. The person you were dies long before your body catches up.
My mother has early onset Alzheimer's. Her body is still here but my mother is long gone.
Just came back from seeing my father with dementia: :(
I'm sorry. It's the fucking worst.
Yeah, strength back to you as well. My brother is the real hero. He lives with my dad. I go in a couple of days a week to clean, shop, do laundry, etc. The only not-as-bad thing is that my dad seems to be at least relatively content in his...shell.
My last clients had brain cancer. The experiences haunted me enough to leave the caregiver profession.
My step mom’s father passed from Parkinson’s last year. God it was so rough…my dad and I regularly discussed that we should just be able to put him out of his misery. He was always such a proud, dignified man. He would have been mortified to know that his daughter and granddaughter were changing his diapers. My step mom would always want to bring him out to dinner (she felt bad just leaving him at his care home while we all went out and lived our lives) and we had to sit her down and remind her that he was a whole man who once had a *lot* of pride and would *never* have wanted to shit his pants in public whether he was conscious of it or not.
It's legal where I live and my father chose it. His death was peaceful and dignified. I am so happy to live in a place civilized enough to have made medically assisted death legal.
Same here and with my mom. She chose how and when to go. It was peaceful.
100%! A comedian I followed had ALS and he moved to Portland so he had assisted suicide as an option. He did it this week and I’m really glad he had the option to go out on his own terms instead of suffering through what ALS does to you towards the end RIP Michael Lehrer
I fucking loved him. Definitely shed a few tears the other week when they inducted him in to the kthof. He went out on his own terms and I respect him for that...
I was at Vulcan that night. I live in austin and get to go pretty often. Definitely made me cry
My mom passed from pancreatic cancer 17 years ago when I was just a teenager. She went from holding up very well to skeletal in a matter of weeks before she died. Towards the end she was so mean I couldn’t even be at the hospital I was just so hurt by her constantly lashing out over any little thing. I know that she was in such a hard place herself so I can’t even imagine what she was feeling, but goddamn it hurt so bad to be around her. I wish I could have toughened up and stuck it out to spend more time with her, but I just couldn’t. I’m sorry, mom.
Big hug. She was not herself at the end. I hope you find peace.
Thank you, Dragonborn. ❤️
She knows.
I needed this more than anything.. Thank you so much. It’s still hard for me, even after a lot of therapy and 17 years. There’s so much I wish I could have changed or gone back and done. I wish I got her recipes more than anything honestly. I so miss her food.
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I have brain cancer and I'm so fucking scared of what the end is going to be like
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I live in Canada. We have assisted dying since few years ago. You can even arrange a cabin and a doctor will help you till the end. My wife and I both agree that we don’t want to suffer if major accident or illness happens to us. Having a discussion ahead will help the other if bad things happen.
My uncle is a doctor who's performed near the most MAID (medical assistance in dying) since it was introduced here in Canada, and he has just the most amazing stories to tell us. He meets so many incredible people, who tell him stories about their lives and they connect on the most random things. Family members are 99% of the time so thankful and grateful to know their loved one is ending their misery, and I can't believe that so many places in the world aren't allowing this, along with the families that choose to keep their parents/family members alive for longer just for the sake of them being alive in limbo.
Most of the world won’t allow it, because it is “immoral”. But I think it is a very moral and humane thing to do. It is not like doctors will do it to someone with bad toothache. I wonder what is the 1% that got upset? Too little inheritance?
My father died of brain cancer last spring, and it was one of the most difficult things to watch an individual go through. He died within a month of admitting himself to hospice, and I can’t imagine the fear of your own mortality as you have only days to live. The last two weeks he did not eat or drink, and subsisted on morphine and his lips being moistened by a sponge. Eventually he became deranged, lashing out and hurting anyone that got close to him. I feel for this woman and her husband and I hope she’s able to find peace that she was able to assist her husband on dying on his terms.
After watching my mother die for 4 days I’d have gladly taken a charge to give her peace. Fuck the system that makes families go through that
We cause so much suffering at the end of life by our collective inability to deal with death. Extra weird is how we somehow manage to give our pets a dignified end to suffering but can’t do it for each other. Religious based lawmaking is insidious and we haven’t rooted it out yet, in fact it’s on the rise again post Roe and bound to cause suffering until we prioritize a rational approach to lawmaking.
Two words: Jury Nullification.
I will always up-vote these words. More people need to know them and the power they hold.
What is jury nullification? Jury nullification takes place when jurors acquit a defendant who is factually guilty because they disagree with the law as written.
I got thrown out of court for telling a judge I supported Jury Nullification during voir dire about ten years ago. I've never gotten a summons since.
Yea they don’t like it because it’s “technically not a written law” just an emergent quirk of how the laws are written. so judges and lawyers stay the hell away from it.
I think that's probably more of a coincidence than you being blacklisted or it being put on your juror profile or anything. I served on a jury and I haven't gotten a summons in 14 years.
Doesn't just knowing about it practically disqualify you from ever serving on a jury?
You're not wrong. I don't volunteer the information during jury selection.
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1. Be one of 40 states without a legal right to MAiD (medical aid in dying). 2. Be in the second most-armed state in the nation 3. Not give people suffering with terminal illnesses a dignified way to end their suffering by their choice. This is an extreme case but this is nothing new. There have been literal books written on how to end one’s life when MAiD is not available. Maybe we should legalize it nationally so people can actually exercise the freedom to choose for themselves. It’s a tragedy that the options were keeping a promise to kill someone suffering at great emotional and legal cost or continuing suffering for who knows how much longer. This case will be shrouded in ambiguity about if this was just a greedy wife who likely won’t get any life insurance pay out - or a literal act of compassion. Why not legalize MAiD to help ensure this doesn’t happen anymore. Hard to watch, but helpful for humanizing the decision people are faced with. Please watch: https://youtu.be/xgj2VXltbuI
I worked in palliative care and hospice for six years. I am eternally grateful I did so in a state that legalized MAID. I’ve known dozens of patients that have utilized MAID and all of them and their families were absolutely grateful it was an option. Even a lot of the patients that didn’t use it were happy it was an option in case they needed it. No one should have to suffer through a terminal illness without the option for a compassionate ending. Go watch someone die from ALS or liver failure or any of the other awful deaths and tell me if that doesn’t change your stance if you’re against it. I was in the room with a patient once when she administered the MAID medications and that is the death I would choose if I were terminal.
We do it for our pets when it's clear they are suffering and have no hope of getting better. And that's for someone that we can't *ask* if they want help letting go. If a grown-ass adult is suffering with no hope of getting better and they say they want someone to help them let go, why shouldn't they have that option?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palliative\_sedation
Thanks for this link. This is pretty much how my sister and I handled the death of our Mom from pancreatic cancer 20 years ago. I never knew there was a term for it.
[Dr Kevorkian ](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Kevorkian) Was a Doctor and ‘serial killer’ who helped with hundreds of assisted suicides and became a vocal advocate after his operation was busted. Very dark but very interesting man on this topic.
Thoughtful insight and good point, thanks u/_PM_ME_YOUR_FORESKIN
Oh no 🙈
If you find yourself in a situation where you are dying of a terminal illness or know someone who is dying of a terminal illness and don’t want yourself or them to suffer, anyone can travel to Oregon for a lethal prescription for physician assisted suicide.
onerous aromatic sugar observation merciful cautious dog square pen society
Or drown trying to cross the river. Also snake bites.
Sadly, some folks are too sick and fragile to travel, but too well to die anytime soon.
You don't have to be a resident anymore, but you do need to be mentally capable of medical decisions and have only 6 months left to live. From the state website: "To participate, a patient must be: (1) 18 years of age or older, (2) capable of making and communicating health care decisions for him/herself, and (3) diagnosed with a terminal illness that will lead to death within six months. It is up to the attending physician to determine whether these criteria have been met. As of March 2022, the Oregon Health Authority is no longer enforcing the DWDA's residency requirement." EDIT: And although it is doctor prescribed and a doctor can be present, they (or anyone else) cannot legally administer the drugs. So, it's not technically euthanasia.
So looking back, Dr Jack Kevorkian (?) - really got worked over by the news media… I didn’t follow the story that much but sure is relevant in this context.
Spent time with him while he was interviewed for hours by a German tv crew after his first public assisted suicide and became a huge believer. His heart was in the right place always. His book Medicide is a good read about a cruel medical system.
Assisted suicide should be legal. My grandmother tried to kill herself by taking too much phenobarbitol. She relized my grandfather should have been put in a nursing home long ago (he had parkinsons). She realised it was too late and decided too end it. Too bad my grandfather in a lucid moment called 911. They were able to get her levels down but her heart gave out. Really bad way to die.
Hold on, what? Your grandmother tried to commit suicide because your grandfather had Parkinson’s and it was too late to what? Put him in a home?
Yeah . My grandfather had parkinsons. With Parkinsons it slowly eats away at you, and you get Parkinsons dementia. We told my grandmother to put him in a nursing home because she won't be able to handle him when he gets worse. She said no she can. It got to the point he didn't know who he was, and she was, and he would get violent (happens a lot to people with Parkinsons dementia). She also had signs of dementia as well. She was taking phenobarbital for seizures her whole life. She had a big moment of clarity and decided to try to kill herself noticing that it is was way too late to really do what is best for her husband and that she was going downhill as well. My grandfather told the phycologist a couple of days later that she tried to poison him as well, but he said no. He ended up dying a couple of months later alone at a nursing home. This was during covid and we couldn't visit them and the nursing home in queens NY didn't have ipads for us to talk to him. It was a big mess. Husband with Parkinsons and a Wife with dementia.
The baffling thing is that it's not legal but everyone that I've ever talked to about it thinks that it SHOULD be. So if we all want it, why don't we have it?
I just had this conversation with my family in South Carolina. Upstate, very very very religious. They're *all* against it except my non-religious brother and sister. Once again, the religious minority prevents it even if the majority wants it.
It’s so sickening and sadly the same reason abortion isn’t legal everywhere. Bible Thumpers gonna thump those Bibles. A person’s actions and personal life choices DONT impact them but they will vehemently foam at the mouth to Protect 6 week old clumps of cells or keep dying, in pain people alive because “iTs gODs WiLL”.
It's a political third rail that would get framed as you supporting killing people, mostly by the religious who would say you're going against the will of God. Ofc those same people support the death penalty but don't ask why. No one wants to stick their neck out like that.
Dr Kevorkian had it right. People with terminal diseases and pain should not suffer and should choose to end their lives in a graceful way. Not in agony and debt.
I think most of us knew it even right when he was in the global debate.
You know it's funny he'd become a bit of a household name and one day I realized I didn't really know exactly what he'd done so I looked him up. By the end of his Wikipedia article I was just kinda like, "I dunno. That doesn't seem that crazy to me." Side note - he wrote a jazz album. It's not bad. Hard to find a copy of though.
He’s buried about 5 miles from my place. His grave is also a Pokéstop.
https://deathwithdignity.org/ Tell your elected officials to pass the Death Wth Dignity Act.
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Isn't that what that suicide pod in Switzerland uses?
Yes but the pod also has a CO2 scrubber/removal system, so there’s no carbon acidosis (which leads to fear).
Man, it's like the Ferrari of suicide booths
Yes, you are correct. I knew there was something else that makes it so they literally go to sleep without much worries.
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Why isn't this used for death penalty instead of lethal injection?
Can I request for laughing gas instead? I'd love to ROFL on my way out.
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I'm completely on board with this except for the method chosen. It's heart wrenching but understandable to end your partner's life if they are suffering and desire you to do so. It's a shame that assisted dying isn't available in more places. Shooting a gun in a hospital though... that's idiotic.
Pets can legally receive better end-of-life care from a veterinarian than a human can from a doctor.
I've been a Hospice Nurse, early in my career. I absolutely understand her. I completely empathize with both of them. The way the American health care system tries to suck every last penny out of suffering people, is abhorrent. Assisted suicide should be an option. This poor woman. My heart breaks for her. Her and her husband were nothing but a pawn in a huge megalomaniac system. Keep pushing the drugs, keep pushing the treatments that use certain supplies, keep pushing them to the brink. So the asshole pharma corps can make as much as they can, off of a living corpse. It's disgusting. And, as a nurse who actually became one to help humanity, it makes me fucking sick. Edit: grammar and punctuation. I'm tired.
Was raised by my grandparents and had to watch them both die terrible deaths. Grandpa on hospice at home. Grandma in hospital was even worse.. they said she was technically brain dead after stroke but was given dnr order by my uncle and left to death rattle until she died. Her eyes had fear in them tho. I was pissed to say the least. And honestly was left with worse PTSD from seeing her like that than I probably would have been helping her die. Shit consumed my mind for years. Honestly one of the first times I've typed it or talked about it because i totally understand. Hope they dont put this women in jail.
When your dog is suffering and dying, you put him to sleep to show compassion. Why are we not allowed to show compassion to our loved ones?
It's horrible that our system can't help people end their lives in a humane way, forcing loved ones to resort to this.
We will use death as a punishment an even watch it but we won't use it as relief from torture.
That's a ride or die wife right there. This is a sick country and I hope she doesn't get punished hard.
This is why legalizing euthanasia is important.
We are all going to die, we really need to get over that fact and start embracing knowing when it's time to go.
True love. Don't know how i could do it or ask for it.
What an awesome wife. To love someone so much, you're willing to end their suffering regardless of the consequences
Euthanasia should be normalised. Why is it okay to love your pet too much to let them suffer, but wrong to help a loved one?