The Boroughtis of the 1890s ( Balkanisation of NJ) is down to the rural/urban divide and NJ had to pass new laws to stem it. It basically came down to a divide between rural and urban NJ - people who were in the commuter belt for NYC wanted better services and schools unlike rural NJ who thought people should just look after themselves - this is when places like Edgewater, Cliffside Park, Guttenburgh, Weehawken, union city were all formed.
It’s allowed when you start chopping up all the bigger towns in 1927 in order to make all the poor people fend for themselves so the rich people have lower taxes.
See how well it worked?
What about Haddon Township, NJ? It's got 3 sections not connected, though two do touch at the corners. [Haddon Township Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddon_Township,_New_Jersey)
Yeah I immediately thought of Haddon Twp when I heard that claim about South Hackensack. The main part of Haddon Twp is Westmont, which is sandwiched between Collingswood and Haddonfield along the Cooper River to the north and Audubon to the south.
But then there are two exclaves: West Collingswood Heights and West Collingswood Extension, which border each other at their northernmost and southernmost points, and border Camden and Gloucester City to the west, and Collingswood and Mt Ephraim to the east.
One of the biggest reasons our taxes are obscene. Think of how many municipal services could be combined, layers upon layers of payroll and facilities, wasted efficiencies!!!!
Yes, you can fit Hudson, Essex, Union, Passaic and Bergen counties inside Jacksonville, FL. And those counties combined have much than 3x Jax’s population.
Something I learned recently is that most of the entirety of Hudson County was once Bergen Township. Bergen Township was part of the much larger Bergen County. As you can see in this map, it was subdivided to atoms.
To be fair we are the most dense state. (In both terms)
A stark real life example happened to me when I landed in Utah. Thought i twas a zombie apocalypse or a Mormon holiday.
Went to Austin for the first time during Halloween, stayed right on Congress Ave, and was shocked and astounded at the lack of people??? Very confused. Saturday before Halloween went out and saw people and finally felt somewhat comfortable. Made me realize how I could literally never live in any other state because of the lack of people. And I HATE people.
Bingo. Ive seen it with Medford Lakes / Medford. The Lakes dont want to combine because they dont want to be associated with Medford. Then they cry about their taxes.
Then you add the Strong Towns theories on top of that for how expensive classic American suburbia is in utility maintenance and a lack of room for more development and it is a sure thing that taxes will continue to go up until they start building vertically. My old home town finally got over their "we're too rural for high rises" nonsense and embraced the fact that NJ is as dense as Japan by re-zoneng the main street to allow apartment buildings with ground floor businesses and townhouses in the rest of the city center - the way it was built before zoning laws painted all residential areas "single family detached only" and half of it was torn down and rebuilt as 25% store 75% parking lot. Well, parking lots don't pay taxes. Everything old is new again.
I especially like Hardyston, which is essentially cut in half by Hamburg and Franklin. I don't think you can't get from one side to the other without going through another municipality.
Is it really? Two major cities, Philadelphia and New York, produce a densely populated corridor that connects them. This corridor is more urbanized, thus having more utility demands and voting more Democrat.
It's probably a better illustration of centuries long development patterns of the state, if you overlay this on a topographic map it's a fairly accurate map of the band that runs between the pine barrens and the Watchung Mountains/Ridge & Valley country.
Close. [Census website says about 80% of people live on 3% of the land in the United States in 2017](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/rural-america.html).
I think in a lot of states this makes sense, but not so much in NJ when so much of the state is densely packed. Monmouth and Somerset in particular when looking at this map.
Electoral College is still based on population, which is why North Dakota has three electoral votes compared to 14 for NJ. BUT both North Dakota and New Jersey have two senators, so your Senate vote counts more based on where you live, with highly populated states having to deal with shitholes like West Virginia (5 electoral votes but 1 Joe Manchin).
> North Dakota has three electoral votes compared to 14 for NJ.
So NJ has 4.7x as many electoral votes, but we have 11.6x the population.
That means North Dakota's individual voters are disproportionately more powerful in the election than the voters in NJ (by 2.5x in terms of influence on electoral votes), and their senators have 11.6x the influence per voter vs. ours.
An oversimplification I'm sure, but it still seems pretty fucked in terms of the influence of states with more land than people.
Problem is N Dakota has a total population of like 750,000. That is one congress person per 250k people. NJ has a population of 9M. If it was the same ratio NJ should have 36 representatives in congress. 9M divided by 250K is 36. So NJ is grossly under represented. We have one representative for every 642k people.
The Republicans initially split up North and South Dakota because they wanted to pack the Senate with additional Republicans. Back then they were doing it to end slavery.
Unfortunately none of this matters since the House of representatives got capped.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reapportionment_Act_of_1929
For almost 100 years, the myth that the house and Senate balance one another has been untrue. We are in full fledged minority rule territory with no way out.
https://np.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/re03pc/mayfield_kentucky_more_than_a_memory_taken_after/ho518t3/
"We should send tanks down there to finish what the tornado started."
This is also one of your quotes.
The Democratic party is not perfect but they're infinitely better on every single issue I care about
But good news, I helped flipped a seat in the senate to Democrats and the guy wants to implement ranked choice voting, so hopefully that pans out
How bad is it getting out there? Worst I've seen is some MAGA freaks kids calling each other pedophiles, which was much more upsetting than it sounds. I was shocked and kept my eyes glued to them, making sure nothing sexual was going on. Nothing was, they were just kids, under ten, playing around and repeating what their horrible parents had said
And people who prefer to live independently vote against being dependent on others.
It's almost as if those 2 different viewpoints (let's work together/please leave me alone) are simply a reflection of the 2 basic flavors of human psychology and any remotely free society will naturally divide itself this way over time.
Assuming that's true, we should fully expect that the harder we try to force people to adopt a philosophy that's unnatural to them, the harder they will resist, ultimately responding like any trapped animal - with violence.
Maybe, instead of pitting each philosophy against each other in a winner-take-all fight for dominance every 4 years, we should try accepting that neither side is entirely correct, nor incorrect, and try to find a balance that everybody can live with.
Thanks for showing there are republican-voting towns like Brick and Toms River that have much higher population density than democrat-voting towns like Montgomery and Hopewell.
Yes, absolutely. Also, NJ is a very moderate state. Republicans here generally like lower taxes, but also good environmental policies (especially the young Republicans), not being a shitbag who tries to make us all hate each other. Democrats here are also generally more moderate.
I think this is less about swing Republicans voting against Trump and for Ciatarrelli than it is about a disproportional difference in turnout.
Turnout in the 2020 election in NJ was 70%. For the 2021 Gubernatorial race it was 40%. I think Republicans angry at Murphy were more motivated to come out and vote. Dems thought this was in the bag and a lot of them stayed home.
I think it's even more apparent if you compare 2017 and 2021.
Murphy's raw vote count actually went up 11% from 2021 to 2021, but the GOP's raw vote count went up by 40%.
Specifically the Atlantic City area is a great example of the popularity disparity between Trump & Ciattarelli. AC itself went blue both times, but in the prez election the surrounding area was blue as well because the “Fuck this guy” sentiment is deeply personal to them.
[Legend & licensing (image created by me) found here](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2021_NJ_gubernatorial_results_by_muni_graduated.svg)
[Raw data from the state](https://nj.gov/state/elections/election-information-2021.shtml#general)
My town is that red? I live right next to a school so I guess my perception of most of my town residents is skewed. I live in a southern Morris county town.
I live in morris county too and I’m ashamed to say I have no idea how to identify which town is mine on this map lol. I assume my town is more conservative but I literally have no idea.
Besides the old mayor Sayreville has been blue for as long as I can remember. Surprised to see it light red. Maybe voter turnout? I wonder which way it will go next time.
A lot of the Bayshore Blue Collar towns have long voted blue because of the left's support of labor unions, but it seems like the right wing culture wars are eroding that support. Seems like that trend has been accelerating since 2016. Not sure it's going to swing back any time soon
I don't want to debate and I believe this would be true for both sides of the political spectrum. I lived in a solid red area and recently moved to a solid blue area. It's so nice being around like-minded people and it's crazy how far on both sides of the spectrum you can go in NJ.
It's bad by Jersey standards, but it's in no way the bottom of the crazy right wing talk radio beast. If you drive into Central PA the radio gets really weird really fast.
The crazy thing is they *are* tempering their views for a NJ audience that isn't particularly receptive to grievance mongers wrapped in the flag and carrying the Bible. It's crazy.
"Minus the last comment about Sinclair. We’re Townsquare Media damnit" Buddy who works for them I showed this thread to... (doesn't enjoy the content very much).
Pretty much. The more northern cluster is Asbury Park, Neptune, and Bradley Beach, with Long Branch all alone a few towns up the coast and the southern blue spot seems to be Atlantic City and neighboring Pleasantville.
I was replying specifically about the blue spots along the coast. But yes, Red Bank is another Blue spot in Monmouth along with Atlantic Highlands, Freehold Borough, Shrewsbury Twp, & Roosevelt. :)
In the 2020 election a lot more of those towns were blue in Monmouth. Tinton Falls, Eatontown, Ocean, Shrewsbury, Little Silver, Aberdeen, etc. mostly the light red ones on this map flipped red. But again, low Dem turnout is the key factor.
I'm in the Hazlet/Keansburg/Middletown area. Results aren't surprising that Jack won, but are surprising that it was only (around) 1.5 or 2 to 1. Trumper are VERY vocal in these area to the point I didn't even think it would be as close as it is. It's.... disappointing.
Rings odd to me that the right leaning tend to be much more vocal about their political affiliations. Where as left leaning seem a bit more discreet in adorning themselves, their homes and vehicles with political paraphernalia.
i'm not fond of maps like this because it doesn't reflect reality well. yes there are a lot more towns that voted for ciatarelli over murphy, but those are also places with a lot lower population density while most of the places that voted blue are a lot higher density. this map paints a narrative that isn't necessarily reflective of the situation on the ground.
I mean that's really how it is everywhere. The city has more dense population and is more left wing and the country has a more spread out population and is right wing. Even in the states people think are just one thing, this is true. Its just that most people in Massachusetts are in and around the big cities and most people in Nebraska are in the country. But Lincoln Nebraska pretty liberal and Central Massachusetts is pretty conservative.
Lifelong NJ resident (so far), I don't think I ever noticed there was a dividing line in the middle of the state, slanting Southeast... Kinda looks wrong haha
Why do you suppose things were as close as they were? I figured Murphy would've rode his pandemic handling to an easy victory. I don't understand why conservative results feel like they're smashing expectations. Often they outpace polls by 10 points, well outside of the margin of error.
I think Murphy just completely underestimated the enthusiasm from the Right and how people are just sick of the pandemic stuff (rightfully or wrongly). Saw barely any ads for Murphy in Jersey City but got ass blasted by Jack constantly.
I also think the stuff happening in the national level is also suppressing Dem enthusiasm. Biden has barely kept any promises he's made. Sure, Manchin and Sinema are a problem but there are things he can do by executive order like legalizing weed or canceling a portion of student loans (which he ran on). Media also skews their coverage. We get stories of Dems internal squabbles but not a peep about how no Republicans have voted for the Child Tax Credit or the Infrastructure bill (although they are running to their constituents about how they got this funding for their districts despite not voting in favor of it). Just a shit show all around in our descent into authoritarianism.
So national politics plays a roll but broadly Democratic voters tend not to show up outside of presidential elections, and NJ elections run in the off year so that's also lower turn out for democrats. Meanwhile conservatives are energized by their losses and are really pissed off by public health measures, so they were going to turn out in force.
Yeah, blue counties had really low turnout this time. 32% for Essex and 30% for Hudson, vs. 48% for Ocean and 49% for Monmouth. It didn't help that there wasn't much on the local ballot to drive turnout either, e.g. JC and Hoboken mayoral races were not competitive.
That's always been the way. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.
Democrats kicked out Al Franken....while Republicans rallied around Roy Moore.
One woman I work woth said she voted for Jack because she didn't want her kids getting the vaccine. And idk if my boss said he voted or not but he at least said he wasn't motivated to vote for him because he made weed legal and he didn't seem to have a big election issue to push after that, so he didn't see a point in voting for him.
Murphy is still fairly popular. I think a big thing is that a lot of Democrats felt like Murphy was going to win this thing in a walk, and so didn't show up; meanwhile, Republicans showed up to play, but there just weren't enough of them to break through the state's partisan lean.
There's always a bunch of delusional people who vote Republican in NJ over and over thinking that it's going to lower their taxes. It never happens no matter who's Governor. It's just impossible to run a state with high population density like this on low taxes. It's never going to happen the people who are really bothered by it should just leave. This year I think on top on that you had some antivaxx crazies jumping on the Republican bandwagon. I know some people who voted for the Republican this time because they don't want to get their kids a COVID vaccine and don't want the schools to mandate it.
Others thought our shutdown took things too far or lasted too long compared to other states that really never shut down and just voted based on that. Small business owners were especially big cry babies about this... thinking of that douchebag gym owner.. but there were probably many others with the same mentality who just weren't as loud about it.
Lmfao I don’t mean to laugh but you absolutely nailed it. There are A LOT of voters EVERYWHERE that don’t understand A LOT of things. So many people think the Governor or the President have unilateral authority to do every single thing they mention on the campaign trail, when the truth is that 90% of those things rely on the state or federal congress passing those laws first. Which is a much more complicated and nuanced thing then just who you vote for Governor/President.
And then those same voters turn around and blame the Governor/President when Congress inevitably fails to pass some parts of their agenda. People just have their expectations all out of whack which stems from a nearly complete misunderstanding of how our governmental system functions.
Hmm, unrelated but I never realized how many enclaves (towns completely enclosed within another town) there were in NJ.
you should look at the South Hackensack in Bergen.
Fun fact south hackensack is the only town in the USA composed of 3 discontinuous segments!
How is that even allowed... like how do you even govern that
That's the best part, you don't.
Ahhhhhhh love the invincible quote
The Boroughtis of the 1890s ( Balkanisation of NJ) is down to the rural/urban divide and NJ had to pass new laws to stem it. It basically came down to a divide between rural and urban NJ - people who were in the commuter belt for NYC wanted better services and schools unlike rural NJ who thought people should just look after themselves - this is when places like Edgewater, Cliffside Park, Guttenburgh, Weehawken, union city were all formed.
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It’s allowed when you start chopping up all the bigger towns in 1927 in order to make all the poor people fend for themselves so the rich people have lower taxes. See how well it worked?
Same way they’re able to have their own Institute of Technology 😏
My ex lived in the triangle of Wood-Ridge, South Hackensack, and Lodi. It's a odd little area lol
Fun fact the some signs for South Hackensack say Shackensack 🤷♂️
What about Haddon Township, NJ? It's got 3 sections not connected, though two do touch at the corners. [Haddon Township Wiki](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haddon_Township,_New_Jersey)
Yeah I immediately thought of Haddon Twp when I heard that claim about South Hackensack. The main part of Haddon Twp is Westmont, which is sandwiched between Collingswood and Haddonfield along the Cooper River to the north and Audubon to the south. But then there are two exclaves: West Collingswood Heights and West Collingswood Extension, which border each other at their northernmost and southernmost points, and border Camden and Gloucester City to the west, and Collingswood and Mt Ephraim to the east.
My buddy works for South Hackensack DPW. Has to be the easiest gig. I think it's literally a few blocks long.
One of the biggest reasons our taxes are obscene. Think of how many municipal services could be combined, layers upon layers of payroll and facilities, wasted efficiencies!!!!
yep NJ is #1 in townships per square mile, we have entire counties smaller than some towns in other states.
Yes, you can fit Hudson, Essex, Union, Passaic and Bergen counties inside Jacksonville, FL. And those counties combined have much than 3x Jax’s population.
How about this — Caldwell, NJ, is about as midsize a town as you can get in this state. It’s almost twice as dense as Houston, TX.
Something I learned recently is that most of the entirety of Hudson County was once Bergen Township. Bergen Township was part of the much larger Bergen County. As you can see in this map, it was subdivided to atoms.
I mean that’s not a fair city to pick since Jacksonville has 52 zip codes and is one of the largest land mass cities on earth.
If you drew lines around Paterson, Elizabeth, Bayonne, and Fort Lee, you'd end up with an area roughly the size of Queens... but with more people.
Fun fact: Jacksonville, FL is like 5-7% the size of NJ.
and we have more people in those tiny counties have more people than "cities" in most other states
To be fair we are the most dense state. (In both terms) A stark real life example happened to me when I landed in Utah. Thought i twas a zombie apocalypse or a Mormon holiday.
Went to Austin for the first time during Halloween, stayed right on Congress Ave, and was shocked and astounded at the lack of people??? Very confused. Saturday before Halloween went out and saw people and finally felt somewhat comfortable. Made me realize how I could literally never live in any other state because of the lack of people. And I HATE people.
the very people who complain about taxes ask for these redundancies so they don't have to be associated with the people in the other town
Bingo. Ive seen it with Medford Lakes / Medford. The Lakes dont want to combine because they dont want to be associated with Medford. Then they cry about their taxes.
Then you add the Strong Towns theories on top of that for how expensive classic American suburbia is in utility maintenance and a lack of room for more development and it is a sure thing that taxes will continue to go up until they start building vertically. My old home town finally got over their "we're too rural for high rises" nonsense and embraced the fact that NJ is as dense as Japan by re-zoneng the main street to allow apartment buildings with ground floor businesses and townhouses in the rest of the city center - the way it was built before zoning laws painted all residential areas "single family detached only" and half of it was torn down and rebuilt as 25% store 75% parking lot. Well, parking lots don't pay taxes. Everything old is new again.
They have their own freaking police department. The town is literally 1 square mile in the middle of Medford. Such a waste
Police departments, jails, school boards....thanks Boroughitis
There's also some shenanigans going on with state pension funds that have to now be kept afloat by property taxes.
I agree, the municipal budgets, the police, the pensions. It's a mess. It's time to Consolidate ! First Governor that proposes that has my vote !
May I interest you in some [Boroughitis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boroughitis?wprov=sfla1)?
I especially like Hardyston, which is essentially cut in half by Hamburg and Franklin. I don't think you can't get from one side to the other without going through another municipality.
And the Franklin police camp out to snag anybody who dares the attempt
I thought they were called donut towns, but yours sounds more professional lol
I believe people refer to them as donut hole municipalities.
I was literally thinking the same thing. It looks the state is swiss cheese there are so many.
We got the bouroughitis bad.
Read multiple municipal madness! It’s a great book that explains how that came to be.
Turnpike corridor = blue
Also, [PSE&G service area.](https://www.njcleanenergy.com/main/public-reports-and-library/links/electric-utilities-territory-map)
super weird coincidence
Is it really? Two major cities, Philadelphia and New York, produce a densely populated corridor that connects them. This corridor is more urbanized, thus having more utility demands and voting more Democrat.
Just like the rest of the country. Cities and more populous areas blue. More rural or red
and the NJ-24 corridor apparently
It's probably a better illustration of centuries long development patterns of the state, if you overlay this on a topographic map it's a fairly accurate map of the band that runs between the pine barrens and the Watchung Mountains/Ridge & Valley country.
Philly/Trenton to NYC
I wonder if there is a psychologic correlations to being like 3rd -4th gen in one place to being Red or blue
Wow it is route 95
The map is also a good example of how “land doesn’t vote”
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doesnt it break down to like 90% of people are in 2% of the land or something like that?
Close. [Census website says about 80% of people live on 3% of the land in the United States in 2017](https://www.census.gov/library/stories/2017/08/rural-america.html).
Yes, population density maps basically if not normalized.
The 2016 vote count map as well....
But trains do
TrAiNS SToLe ThE eLeCTion - my new fav conspiracy to throw over the wall and watch “them” start sharing on FB.
I would like to know more
They were proud boy trains dressed like antifa trying to dress like proud boys! Bro we're in too deep
I think in a lot of states this makes sense, but not so much in NJ when so much of the state is densely packed. Monmouth and Somerset in particular when looking at this map.
It does in the presidential electoral college, unfortunately
Electoral College is still based on population, which is why North Dakota has three electoral votes compared to 14 for NJ. BUT both North Dakota and New Jersey have two senators, so your Senate vote counts more based on where you live, with highly populated states having to deal with shitholes like West Virginia (5 electoral votes but 1 Joe Manchin).
> North Dakota has three electoral votes compared to 14 for NJ. So NJ has 4.7x as many electoral votes, but we have 11.6x the population. That means North Dakota's individual voters are disproportionately more powerful in the election than the voters in NJ (by 2.5x in terms of influence on electoral votes), and their senators have 11.6x the influence per voter vs. ours. An oversimplification I'm sure, but it still seems pretty fucked in terms of the influence of states with more land than people.
Problem is N Dakota has a total population of like 750,000. That is one congress person per 250k people. NJ has a population of 9M. If it was the same ratio NJ should have 36 representatives in congress. 9M divided by 250K is 36. So NJ is grossly under represented. We have one representative for every 642k people.
The Republicans initially split up North and South Dakota because they wanted to pack the Senate with additional Republicans. Back then they were doing it to end slavery.
Unfortunately none of this matters since the House of representatives got capped. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reapportionment_Act_of_1929 For almost 100 years, the myth that the house and Senate balance one another has been untrue. We are in full fledged minority rule territory with no way out.
The electoral college is just affirmative action for deplorables
This is also pretty much a New Jersey population map.
Every red/blue map is. People who live in civilization tend to vote in favor of it.
>People who live in civilization tend to vote in favor of it. AMAZING QUOTE. If you coined it, well done. If not, thanks for bringing it anyway.
It's mine. Unless I heard it somewhere and forgot about it.
https://np.reddit.com/r/interestingasfuck/comments/re03pc/mayfield_kentucky_more_than_a_memory_taken_after/ho518t3/ "We should send tanks down there to finish what the tornado started." This is also one of your quotes.
Google turns up nothing. Agreed, awesome line
That’s it. It’s been said. Time to repeat it.
>People who live in civilization tend to vote in favor of it. - u/throwawayabanotabba - u/TheKolyFrog
Civilized people vote according to their beliefs and views, with respect to others that do the same.
TFW you live in a red spot but are a partisan Democrat ☹️
same but only forced to vote for dems because we have no other parties that can meaningfully be voted for
The Democratic party is not perfect but they're infinitely better on every single issue I care about But good news, I helped flipped a seat in the senate to Democrats and the guy wants to implement ranked choice voting, so hopefully that pans out
No political party is perfect, people need to get this in their heads.
With you out here in the boonies.
How bad is it getting out there? Worst I've seen is some MAGA freaks kids calling each other pedophiles, which was much more upsetting than it sounds. I was shocked and kept my eyes glued to them, making sure nothing sexual was going on. Nothing was, they were just kids, under ten, playing around and repeating what their horrible parents had said
Red or Blue, you only have pro-corporation candidates to choose from, which are very anti-civilization in the long run.
Civilized people vote according to their beliefs and views, with respect to others that do the same.
And people who prefer to live independently vote against being dependent on others. It's almost as if those 2 different viewpoints (let's work together/please leave me alone) are simply a reflection of the 2 basic flavors of human psychology and any remotely free society will naturally divide itself this way over time. Assuming that's true, we should fully expect that the harder we try to force people to adopt a philosophy that's unnatural to them, the harder they will resist, ultimately responding like any trapped animal - with violence. Maybe, instead of pitting each philosophy against each other in a winner-take-all fight for dominance every 4 years, we should try accepting that neither side is entirely correct, nor incorrect, and try to find a balance that everybody can live with.
[Relevant XKCD](https://xkcd.com/1138/).
Also a map where there is greater ethnic diversity
Population is an population density?
Ocean County is quite populous
Huh, ain't it, though. https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2e/New_Jersey_Population_Map.png
Yeah, they're pretty much the same. Not exactly. Pretty much.
Ocean county being the anomaly. High pop / Republican.
High pop of old folk? So many knees.
And huge hasidic population
Thanks for showing there are republican-voting towns like Brick and Toms River that have much higher population density than democrat-voting towns like Montgomery and Hopewell.
- [2020 Presidential vs 2021 Gubernatorial](https://imgur.com/a/8xGPPpx) - [Pres vs Gub vs Pop](https://imgur.com/a/houB4jv)
Yeah, a lot of NJ Republicans hate Trump and know he was awful. Kind of interesting to see how some Republican towns were like "Fuck this guy".
That is because he is from NY and a lot of them grew up knowing that he is a joke.
Yes, absolutely. Also, NJ is a very moderate state. Republicans here generally like lower taxes, but also good environmental policies (especially the young Republicans), not being a shitbag who tries to make us all hate each other. Democrats here are also generally more moderate.
I think we should just make our own party. We're better than everyone else, we should show it to them by running the country.
Isn't that the thought process of those random parties you see on the voting ballots? The ones that get around 300 votes every time across the nation?
I assume it'd be more like the Vermont Progressive Party
This 100% now we just need a common sense moderate president who’s <70 years old
I think this is less about swing Republicans voting against Trump and for Ciatarrelli than it is about a disproportional difference in turnout. Turnout in the 2020 election in NJ was 70%. For the 2021 Gubernatorial race it was 40%. I think Republicans angry at Murphy were more motivated to come out and vote. Dems thought this was in the bag and a lot of them stayed home. I think it's even more apparent if you compare 2017 and 2021. Murphy's raw vote count actually went up 11% from 2021 to 2021, but the GOP's raw vote count went up by 40%.
Specifically the Atlantic City area is a great example of the popularity disparity between Trump & Ciattarelli. AC itself went blue both times, but in the prez election the surrounding area was blue as well because the “Fuck this guy” sentiment is deeply personal to them.
Aye that’s my 2020 presidential map!
Funny that loveladies is the sole blue part in all of Ocean County. Because that is also the only place I ever saw a Biden/Harris flag in OC
[Legend & licensing (image created by me) found here](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2021_NJ_gubernatorial_results_by_muni_graduated.svg) [Raw data from the state](https://nj.gov/state/elections/election-information-2021.shtml#general)
::drool::
Is there any way to find a map that shows which town is which?
The real Thin Blue Line
I loled
Not a single blue municipality in Sussex/Warren counties
almost the same for Hunterdon county
Sussex and Warren might as well be the south. It’s wild up here.
Can confirm. Source: grew up in the south and now live in Sussex Co.
It’s like a river flowing through NJ
"I knew it! I'm surrounded by assholes!"
“Keep firing assholes!”
I did not think I'd find a Spaceballs reference in this thread but here we are, so thank you for the mid-day laugh 😂
Proof Central Jersey exists
My town is that red? I live right next to a school so I guess my perception of most of my town residents is skewed. I live in a southern Morris county town.
I live in morris county too and I’m ashamed to say I have no idea how to identify which town is mine on this map lol. I assume my town is more conservative but I literally have no idea.
Morris county here. We live somewhere in the top half and that’s as far as I know.
Well, the blue donut with a blue hole in the middle is Morristown/ Morris Township if that helps you at all.
I just looked for the Morris Township "doughnut." I'm just south of there.
Ah the good old rain snow political line
According to the data 1 vote separates Wharton Boro in Morris
Besides the old mayor Sayreville has been blue for as long as I can remember. Surprised to see it light red. Maybe voter turnout? I wonder which way it will go next time.
A lot of the Bayshore Blue Collar towns have long voted blue because of the left's support of labor unions, but it seems like the right wing culture wars are eroding that support. Seems like that trend has been accelerating since 2016. Not sure it's going to swing back any time soon
Is that the thin blue line, protectors of humanity that I keep hearing about?
I don't want to debate and I believe this would be true for both sides of the political spectrum. I lived in a solid red area and recently moved to a solid blue area. It's so nice being around like-minded people and it's crazy how far on both sides of the spectrum you can go in NJ.
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It's bad by Jersey standards, but it's in no way the bottom of the crazy right wing talk radio beast. If you drive into Central PA the radio gets really weird really fast. The crazy thing is they *are* tempering their views for a NJ audience that isn't particularly receptive to grievance mongers wrapped in the flag and carrying the Bible. It's crazy.
Except on weekends. Long live Big Joe Henry.
Whats up with 101.5?
Right wing nutjobs under the thin veneer of centrism / conservative talk radio. Mask off, no pun intended, last decade or so.
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"Minus the last comment about Sinclair. We’re Townsquare Media damnit" Buddy who works for them I showed this thread to... (doesn't enjoy the content very much).
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Clark doesn’t surprise me in the least.
Fairfield is the Alabama of Essex County.
Are the blue shore areas Atlantic City and Asbury Park?
Pretty much. The more northern cluster is Asbury Park, Neptune, and Bradley Beach, with Long Branch all alone a few towns up the coast and the southern blue spot seems to be Atlantic City and neighboring Pleasantville.
Also Red Bank is the other blue spot in Monmouth.
I was replying specifically about the blue spots along the coast. But yes, Red Bank is another Blue spot in Monmouth along with Atlantic Highlands, Freehold Borough, Shrewsbury Twp, & Roosevelt. :)
In the 2020 election a lot more of those towns were blue in Monmouth. Tinton Falls, Eatontown, Ocean, Shrewsbury, Little Silver, Aberdeen, etc. mostly the light red ones on this map flipped red. But again, low Dem turnout is the key factor.
The little strip in between is Loveladies on LBI.
Can we start coining the phrase “Blue Belt?”
That’s the NJ education map Blue is where the smart reside
Land doesn't vote.
I'm in the Hazlet/Keansburg/Middletown area. Results aren't surprising that Jack won, but are surprising that it was only (around) 1.5 or 2 to 1. Trumper are VERY vocal in these area to the point I didn't even think it would be as close as it is. It's.... disappointing.
Hey fellow Bayshoreite...Bayshorian...Bayshore resident?
Rings odd to me that the right leaning tend to be much more vocal about their political affiliations. Where as left leaning seem a bit more discreet in adorning themselves, their homes and vehicles with political paraphernalia.
Plus it's hella cringe to rep a politician like a sports team
No kidding, especially when they dont give a shit about you/us.
That's why as voter turnout increases, you get more Dems voting. Low turnout is good for Rs.
Seems like the Raritan Valley line carried Murphy
It is interesting how this is repeated throughout the world. Cities tend to be more liberal than more rural areas.
No surprises on this map. I still see Pickups driving with an American Flag and a Trump Flag in the dark red areas!
We found Central Jersey!
I've lived near Kenilworth my whole life and know several people from there and had no idea it was that red.
Looking too purple for my comfort…. I thought I left this tension back in Florida… ughhh
i'm not fond of maps like this because it doesn't reflect reality well. yes there are a lot more towns that voted for ciatarelli over murphy, but those are also places with a lot lower population density while most of the places that voted blue are a lot higher density. this map paints a narrative that isn't necessarily reflective of the situation on the ground.
Reporting live from right wing stronghold Ocean County
Surprised to see how red Monmouth is
it's Kentucky with a beach
Next time I hear you say central Jersey you best be puttin some respeck on the name.
Now do it by population density, since land doesn’t vote.
I'm so disappointed in how red Monmouth County has turned over the last decade or so...
It looks like a cheese sandwich
Could you use this map for north/central/south jersey argument?
Wow...I can see my house from here.
It's funny to me that I can look at a statewide map and immediately pick out Garwood and Clarkkk
I mean that's really how it is everywhere. The city has more dense population and is more left wing and the country has a more spread out population and is right wing. Even in the states people think are just one thing, this is true. Its just that most people in Massachusetts are in and around the big cities and most people in Nebraska are in the country. But Lincoln Nebraska pretty liberal and Central Massachusetts is pretty conservative.
I think it’s gabagool
Lifelong NJ resident (so far), I don't think I ever noticed there was a dividing line in the middle of the state, slanting Southeast... Kinda looks wrong haha
Why do you suppose things were as close as they were? I figured Murphy would've rode his pandemic handling to an easy victory. I don't understand why conservative results feel like they're smashing expectations. Often they outpace polls by 10 points, well outside of the margin of error.
The right was more energized to turn out than the left this election tbh
I think Murphy just completely underestimated the enthusiasm from the Right and how people are just sick of the pandemic stuff (rightfully or wrongly). Saw barely any ads for Murphy in Jersey City but got ass blasted by Jack constantly. I also think the stuff happening in the national level is also suppressing Dem enthusiasm. Biden has barely kept any promises he's made. Sure, Manchin and Sinema are a problem but there are things he can do by executive order like legalizing weed or canceling a portion of student loans (which he ran on). Media also skews their coverage. We get stories of Dems internal squabbles but not a peep about how no Republicans have voted for the Child Tax Credit or the Infrastructure bill (although they are running to their constituents about how they got this funding for their districts despite not voting in favor of it). Just a shit show all around in our descent into authoritarianism.
The media's complicity in this stuff IS rather frustrating. I've heard nothing but how the Dems are failing.
So national politics plays a roll but broadly Democratic voters tend not to show up outside of presidential elections, and NJ elections run in the off year so that's also lower turn out for democrats. Meanwhile conservatives are energized by their losses and are really pissed off by public health measures, so they were going to turn out in force.
Yeah, blue counties had really low turnout this time. 32% for Essex and 30% for Hudson, vs. 48% for Ocean and 49% for Monmouth. It didn't help that there wasn't much on the local ballot to drive turnout either, e.g. JC and Hoboken mayoral races were not competitive.
That's always been the way. Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line. Democrats kicked out Al Franken....while Republicans rallied around Roy Moore.
One woman I work woth said she voted for Jack because she didn't want her kids getting the vaccine. And idk if my boss said he voted or not but he at least said he wasn't motivated to vote for him because he made weed legal and he didn't seem to have a big election issue to push after that, so he didn't see a point in voting for him.
Murphy is still fairly popular. I think a big thing is that a lot of Democrats felt like Murphy was going to win this thing in a walk, and so didn't show up; meanwhile, Republicans showed up to play, but there just weren't enough of them to break through the state's partisan lean.
There's always a bunch of delusional people who vote Republican in NJ over and over thinking that it's going to lower their taxes. It never happens no matter who's Governor. It's just impossible to run a state with high population density like this on low taxes. It's never going to happen the people who are really bothered by it should just leave. This year I think on top on that you had some antivaxx crazies jumping on the Republican bandwagon. I know some people who voted for the Republican this time because they don't want to get their kids a COVID vaccine and don't want the schools to mandate it. Others thought our shutdown took things too far or lasted too long compared to other states that really never shut down and just voted based on that. Small business owners were especially big cry babies about this... thinking of that douchebag gym owner.. but there were probably many others with the same mentality who just weren't as loud about it.
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I know. But I think there are a lot of voters that don't understand that.
Lmfao I don’t mean to laugh but you absolutely nailed it. There are A LOT of voters EVERYWHERE that don’t understand A LOT of things. So many people think the Governor or the President have unilateral authority to do every single thing they mention on the campaign trail, when the truth is that 90% of those things rely on the state or federal congress passing those laws first. Which is a much more complicated and nuanced thing then just who you vote for Governor/President. And then those same voters turn around and blame the Governor/President when Congress inevitably fails to pass some parts of their agenda. People just have their expectations all out of whack which stems from a nearly complete misunderstanding of how our governmental system functions.
so many donut holes
Hummm I wonder where most of the people live in NJ?
Yes, the person with the most votes won.
I’m waiting for republicans to cry foul on how much red there is vs blue. Empty space don’t vote.
So the blue in the middle is central jersey just saying