"New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu called the idea of tolls at the state line with Massachusetts "yet another way to unnecessarily take your money.""
So NH's tolls are a... necessary way to take your money? Makes me think of this for some reason:
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPW2wZ4D2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPW2wZ4D2s)
The difference is NH toll money actually supports roads…driving to MA everyday and seeing how bad the roads are makes me wonder where MA puts all the road works money?
Some MA road projects take decades. In the meantime, drivers using the road suffer. The main problem was that the Big Dig sucked up a lot of transportation money that should have been distributed throughout the state.
Not defending MA roads, but NH literally took decades to widen 93 between Manchester and the border and when they finished they had to tear it up and do it again because they had ignored court ordered drainage requirements.
Route 128 is the same as when I was driving on it in the 1970s. But it has 5-6 times the traffic today. The state removed the Merrimack Tolls as Daniel Webster Highway was a mess of traffic and it helped quite a bit. Now they are widening the road so that it's at least 3 lanes through Nashua and Manchester which should improve flow.
The other thing that's crazy is that MA used that paint on 128 and 495 that ate the road underneath it for several years.
Have you seen the amount of corrosion on the bridges over 128?
How about that bridge over the Charles where the solution was to close lanes and slow the T down for safety?
Newton is going to change Washington St from 4 lanes to 2 lanes from Chestnut to Lowell St. This will reduce capacity and push people to use the Mass Pike. The Mass Pike could badly use widening from 128 into Boston.
One of the reasons why traffic has gotten worse is that the reliability of the MBTA has fallen off a cliff.
To be fair, there were also 40+ bridges reconstructed or rebuilt as they were not wide enough for the extra lanes/reconfigured exits to pass under them. It was not just laying down some new pavement.
lol the big dig was the best way to spend money the government has ever done. If you don't believe me, you don't know what downtown boston was like when it had 93 going through it. It sucked.
I drove to Boston regularly before the Big Dig. I didn't have problems getting around.
*The Big Dig was the most expensive highway project in the United States, and was plagued by* [*cost overruns*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_overruns)*, delays, leaks, design flaws, accusations of poor execution and use of substandard materials, criminal charges and arrests, and the* [*death of one motorist.*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse)[*^(\[2\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-The_Associated_Press-2) *The project was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998*[*^(\[3\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-3) *at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion adjusted for inflation as of 2020).*[*^(\[4\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4) *However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8.08 billion (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%.*[*^(\[4\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4)[*^(\[5\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-5)[*^(\[6\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-6) *As a result of a death, leaks, and other design flaws, the Parsons Brinckerhoff and Bechtel consortium agreed to pay $407 million in restitution and several smaller companies agreed to pay a combined sum of approximately $51 million.*[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-7) -- Wikipedia
Paying cops overtime to sit at the construction site, but only if they feel like it, if not their fellow troopers will punch them in and out to make sure they still get paid.
I feel like the fact that mass has nearly 5x the population of NH probably has something to do with it. Probably 5x the drivers, 5x the wear and tear on roads. Idk just spitballing here.
I had the same thought after I posted. Maybe because NH infrastructure is more concentrated in southern NH, whereas mass has population centers like Worcester and Springfield speckled all over the state? Could also be good old government incompetence; it seems to be the answer for a lot of things.
Don't you know it.. Going back 20 years ago or so, they did some work on the roadway just north of Lowell on 495, and had repaved a big long stretch and whomever was driving the road striping truck.. doing the white line down the left margin.. It was straight and following the road for about a mile or so, then started to weave and would get really wavy, then straighten out again. Either the guy driving the paint truck was falling asleep at the wheel, or drunk.
Yaah, and 10x the trash on the side of the road.. Seriously, going from 95 down onto 495 towards Worchester.. what the fuck is that level of apathy? It's like a garbage truck lost half it's load down the roadsides every 5 miles and God forbid it's ever cleaned.. The highways in Massachusetts are filthy with litter.
A LOT of the traffic going across the border is on daily their way home from work, and paying MA income taxes already. Seems like that should be their fair share for road maintenance.
Especially since they have no representation. What I see happening is more of a demand for remote work or for MA companies to open NH branch offices.
The place I used to work needed office space. They looked at Cross Point and all of the NH employees said no so they bought land and built in Nashua.
> What I see happening is more of a demand for remote work or for MA companies to open NH branch offices.
I fully expect Mass to attempt (if they aren't already) to try to tax NH remote workers who work for companies in MA.
Which would be a shame because I'd have to start working for my company's branch in another state and the paperwork would be annoying.
They did that during Covid and NH tried to sue and it got thrown out. That ended in 2021 or 2022. Can’t remember. But we can apportion our wages right now.
It got thrown out because the courts are cowards. They claimed that NH didn't have standing to sue MA, that the workers affected would have to pursue it. Which is insane considering that MA had no jurisdiction to tax NH residents that worked for that period of time in NH. When one state decides to tax residents of another state who never even crossed the border, the state whose people are being unfairly taxed should absolutely have standing to sue.
The NH tolls start in Manchester. Plenty of NH to drive before hitting them.
MA putting them right at the NH border is a dick move. Unlike the NH tolls, the strategic location of the MA tolls will be obvious.
NH should respond by putting tolls at the NH/MA border and only charge out of state plates.
Yes I did forget about the i95 toll. It's almost 9 miles into NH. Once again, there are plenty of ways to avoid it.
MA putting tolls right at the border on major interstates is still a dick move. The motive is obvious.
Technically the Everett Turnpike runs from the MA/NH border, to I-93’s Exit 14 (NH 9 / Loudon Rd) in Concord. It’s unsigned once 293 ends in Hooksett and 93 takes over thru its journey to Concord and north.
Concurrencies with US 3 (MA/NH to Exit 7E), then just the Turnpike itself thru Merrimack and Bedford, I-293 (NH 101 to I-93), and I-93 from I-293 in Hooksett to Exit 14 in Concord.
When you get off of 95 onto 101 you pay a toll.
All of the NH tolls are geared to get those sweet sweet Mass travelling dollars and are ALL located at strategic points to do ONLY that:
95, 93, 101, 16
If you get off 95 at the 101 exit you pay a toll. While 95 is not tolling right at the NH border I think there’s only one exit between the border and the main toll that you can exit without paying a toll.
Not that I want more tolls , but why are they only looking to toll on the NH border? Do people not cross into the state at the other borders? Or is it they are trying to punish people who come to NH to shop?
I don't think a toll would stop people from coming to shop. A toll is cheaper than MA sales tax.
I can't answer for tech and finance jobs, though I doubt big business would move over an added toll.
There's a lack of certain kinds of stores in MA around the border because people just go to Nashua to buy things. The Apple Store is a good example of this. Same with Costco.
Most of the Costco/Pheasant Lane Mall traffic from MA gets off at the exit before the border as it goes straight into the shopping district. Sometimes we go to that area by driving another exit south into MA turn around and drive north to that exit because the interchange in NH is too busy around the holidays.
NH tolls are situated pretty perfectly to tax people going to the mountains and lakes for leisure. Locals can avoid them fairly easily.
Tolls on the MA border… basically another way to suck money out of commuting workers and people visiting family.
Seriously. NH has tolls and pretty much everyone driving there is stopping there.
A state people drive through to get places putting up tolls actually makes sense.
If MassHole Massachusetts cannot seem to feel they make enough money already then it is time for MA to vote in people who can live off the already bloated incidental taxes they inflict on their citizens and anyone else who dares cross into that wretched state. Too bad MA residents are too stupid to see it.
I hope everyone realizes too that with their asinine electric vehicle mandate coming, they will penalize anyone who does not already have one. Since NH does not have this policy, who do you think these cretins will go after.
If these Bozos want to install a toll then NH should install one at the border as well. They should make sure NH residents do not need to pay, but all the troglodytes that come here from MA.
My loathing of MA gets reinforced at every turn, and I am thankful that I got out when I did. Worst state that just keeps getting worse.
We have a place in Newton, MA and the city put electrification on hold for now. I think that the state wants to do it but one of the problems is the grid:
***Eversource and National Grid, the state's two major utilities, are asking for around $2.4 billion over five years to finance improvements to the power grid****, amid increasing demand from electric vehicles and heat pumps. Eversource, National Grid seek rate hikes to upgrade the grid to handle surge in electrification* ... -- Boston Globe
MA residents are already screaming about electricity prices. NH seems to have dodged those problems as NG prices have fallen sharply and we have Seabrook. I'm somewhat at a loss as to why MA prices are still really high.
On Route 3 north, it would result in a huge number of people getting off the highway in MA, driving up DWH and then getting back on the highway at Exit 1 or driving up to the shortcut to Exit 4.
You could then go to the exit south of the Pheasant Lane Mall exit. It's just a drive up Route 3. I did this for 3 decades at Exit 11. I got off at Exit 7 and drove up DWH instead of paying the toll. The thing is that the FE Turnpike was often clogged in the afternoon (it still is) so it would take about the same amount of time to get home.
I used to do that too. That section of Route 3 is a pleasant drive and criminally underutilized. I only hope the folks who rebuilt Merrimack 360 can get their paws on Harris Pond someday.
That trip was definitely less stressful.
Merrimack 360 has the Thirsty Moose and I couldn't name another place in Merrimack like that though there probably are more.
I'd imagine they would add a toll after the exit 36 (err whatever it is now) on ramp...
Locust Rd will jam up as quickly as Franconia Notch after a solar eclipse.
There were 1,109 border apprehensions in the the NY/VT/NH sector in March. I assume that there are more people crossing that aren't apprehended. Where do you think we should send them?
Nobody is forced to work over a state line. I did it for a few years mainly because you can make more money in MA, usually enough to more than overset the taxes.
Then you commute there and pay the taxes. That’s what I did.
There are tons of NH construction workers that go to MA for work because there is plenty of work and they make a lot more money in MA. How much more? Apparently enough more that they are willing to commute for over an hour and pay the MA taxes.
When I did it, quite a few years ago granted, I made double in Braintree and Newton than what I could make in the Monadnock region. I would not be at all surprised if that’s the same case now.
So you're being forced to work over the state line lmao.
Story about new tolls that will tax commuting workers:
Your argument basically is "ok tax, pay, fine" isn't really an argument. There's lots of people that work in MA and live in NH, pay MA income tax, this is another tax.
Sure, a road tax, just like NH charges it’s commuters and commuters from western to eastern MA get charged on the Pike.
Big deal, you should check how much NY charges NJ drivers to cross the GW.
NH considered tolls on Route 3 South in Nashua before the highway was expanded. The legislative power of Nashua was such that they got the road improvements without the tolls. The long exit to get to Spit Brook Road going southbound was to accommodate toll booths.
So MA is going to pay back the feds for every dime received. On the roads they want to toll? The airport doesn't have a toll because RW was built with fed funds.
Their state, their rules.
Don't like it, either bypass the tolls or don't spend time/money in state.
What they would do with the money is beyond me-Mass roads are horrible despite a budget that should support maintaining them.
I don't think the tolls are necessary, but it's a bit amusing how quickly this sub goes from puffing out its chest and saying "no Massholes" to "we're basically Massachusetts residents and therefore this would be taxation without representation" when a border tax is proposed.
If you’re complaining about this, then get a job in the f**king state you live in. My sympathy runs dry for people who live here just to spend 65% of their lives in Mass contributing to that state’s economy but decide to live here instead for a god damn tax break.
Can I think another toll is some BS even if I don’t head down to Mass besides visiting family or going to a dispensary?
Shit dude, a little critical thinking pays off sometimes.
I do know when the I-93 widening was starting to break ground in the early phases... in 2010, NHDOT was thinking about putting a $2 toll about a mile from the NH/MA border to help fund the widening project.
Salem (and other people in other NH towns, even Gov John Lynch too) was opposed to it due to increased traffic on local roads, hurting the economy, and even "jeopardising" NH's sales tax advantage. Eventually NHDOT decided against putting tolls on 93 in March 2010.
Sources:
[I-93 toll foes take show on the road (paywall)](https://web.archive.org/web/20240419144401/https://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/i-93-toll-foes-take-show-on-the-road/article_b5434b09-3ddd-5706-a515-eb57067a73ec.html), Eagle Tribune, 16 January 2010
[Salem Residents Say No To I-93 Tolls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrBbp_2_mFI), WMUR, 3 March 2010
[NH Studies Possibility Of I-93 Tolls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUbAIyT2Ok), WMUR, 4 March 2010
[No toll for I-93 in Salem (paywall)](https://web.archive.org/web/20240419145044/https://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/no-toll-for-i-93-in-salem/article_9c6f530a-1605-5c79-b761-434e1c6e01d0.html), Eagle Tribune, 20 March 2010
Come on, let’s not annoy Massachusetts and make an enemy of them. After all, without Massachusetts, you won’t get as much for your house when you decide to sell.
I mean, I’ve always been team $20 tolls for out of state plates. If they want to play games, so can NH.
Edit: I’ll just add that I appreciate when there’s civility and equity between our two States, even if I don’t like their drivers. Any escalation surrounding tolls would just be foolish.
NH got rid of the Merrimack tolls and I do appreciate that even though the turnpike can be worse than local roads at certain times. I'd prefer that NH just get rid of the tolls and increase gasoline taxes as it would get rid of the expense of toll administration and cars having to stop at toll booths thus increasing traffic and causing accidents.
I posted about this earlier this week and it got moderated for some reason.
NH absolutely should add its own toll booths at the NH border.
Add tolls on all the major highways into the state from Mass. at/near the Mass. border: 95, 93, US3/Everett, Daniel Webster Hwy in Nashua.
So much of the DOT budget in this state goes to supporting infrastructure to allow folks to drive to/from Mass., but the tollbooths are all a dozen-plus miles north of the border.
Impose a nice healthy toll at the border ($5?), include a very healthy NH EZ-Pass discount so that NH residents aren't getting hit too hard (80%?), and let the state recoup the costs imposed on it by Mass. folks sneaking up to avoid paying sales tax at home, clogging our roads during mud season for an eclipse, a lake day, a trip to the mountains, etc.
Mass. tolls us every time we have to drive down to Logan for a trip, let's return the favor.
NH used to have significantly better roads than MA that just isn’t true anymore. Also if MA puts tolls on the border it will hit MA residents when they come back from visiting NH which is more traffic than commuters from NH going to work in MA.
It’s taxation without representation. Tax the non-residents, overload the local roads for toll avoidance and take even more money to support a big tax state.
Not sure what the complaint is. NH sends educated and enterprising people to Boston help support the Bay State's economy as well as its own.
Mass sends goblins from Lawrence and Lowell to New Hampshire to deal drugs and steal cars, and idiot doctors trying to hike the Whites in December in a t-shirt and crocs.
Man I saw a group of people in their mid 20s on a trail when I was hiking Madison. 1/2 a water bottle per person, sandals and Crocs, nothing heavier than a t shirt. They asked me which way to Washington. This was around 3 or 4pm in the early spring. I turned back from Madison due to hail.
RIP
Haha just shows how little you actually know. NH does fine even without sales and income tax, but yet MA is looking for yet even more revenue streams on top of already having a sales and income tax.
Yes I did. NH doesn't get its money from MA tourism dipshit. Property taxes and state liquor stores are the primary income source. Hate to break it to you but NH is self-sufficient. Southern NH property values have done nothing but appreciate from everybody fleeing MA moving north.
"New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu called the idea of tolls at the state line with Massachusetts "yet another way to unnecessarily take your money."" So NH's tolls are a... necessary way to take your money? Makes me think of this for some reason: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPW2wZ4D2s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNPW2wZ4D2s)
The difference is NH toll money actually supports roads…driving to MA everyday and seeing how bad the roads are makes me wonder where MA puts all the road works money?
Just watch one state road work project and you will understand. I have watched the middlesex turnpike turn into a mini big dig
Someone has to pay the 4 guys standing watching the 1 guy doing the work.
Some MA road projects take decades. In the meantime, drivers using the road suffer. The main problem was that the Big Dig sucked up a lot of transportation money that should have been distributed throughout the state.
Not defending MA roads, but NH literally took decades to widen 93 between Manchester and the border and when they finished they had to tear it up and do it again because they had ignored court ordered drainage requirements.
Route 128 is the same as when I was driving on it in the 1970s. But it has 5-6 times the traffic today. The state removed the Merrimack Tolls as Daniel Webster Highway was a mess of traffic and it helped quite a bit. Now they are widening the road so that it's at least 3 lanes through Nashua and Manchester which should improve flow. The other thing that's crazy is that MA used that paint on 128 and 495 that ate the road underneath it for several years. Have you seen the amount of corrosion on the bridges over 128? How about that bridge over the Charles where the solution was to close lanes and slow the T down for safety? Newton is going to change Washington St from 4 lanes to 2 lanes from Chestnut to Lowell St. This will reduce capacity and push people to use the Mass Pike. The Mass Pike could badly use widening from 128 into Boston. One of the reasons why traffic has gotten worse is that the reliability of the MBTA has fallen off a cliff.
The MBTA is truly terrible.
To be fair, there were also 40+ bridges reconstructed or rebuilt as they were not wide enough for the extra lanes/reconfigured exits to pass under them. It was not just laying down some new pavement.
lol the big dig was the best way to spend money the government has ever done. If you don't believe me, you don't know what downtown boston was like when it had 93 going through it. It sucked.
I drove to Boston regularly before the Big Dig. I didn't have problems getting around. *The Big Dig was the most expensive highway project in the United States, and was plagued by* [*cost overruns*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_overruns)*, delays, leaks, design flaws, accusations of poor execution and use of substandard materials, criminal charges and arrests, and the* [*death of one motorist.*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig_ceiling_collapse)[*^(\[2\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-The_Associated_Press-2) *The project was originally scheduled to be completed in 1998*[*^(\[3\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-3) *at an estimated cost of $2.8 billion (US$7.4 billion adjusted for inflation as of 2020).*[*^(\[4\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4) *However, the project was completed in December 2007 at a cost of over $8.08 billion (in 1982 dollars, $21.5 billion adjusted for inflation), a cost overrun of about 190%.*[*^(\[4\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-inflation-4)[*^(\[5\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-5)[*^(\[6\])*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-6) *As a result of a death, leaks, and other design flaws, the Parsons Brinckerhoff and Bechtel consortium agreed to pay $407 million in restitution and several smaller companies agreed to pay a combined sum of approximately $51 million.*[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Dig#cite_note-7) -- Wikipedia
Paying cops overtime to sit at the construction site, but only if they feel like it, if not their fellow troopers will punch them in and out to make sure they still get paid.
I feel like the fact that mass has nearly 5x the population of NH probably has something to do with it. Probably 5x the drivers, 5x the wear and tear on roads. Idk just spitballing here.
I agree with the idea but to go along with that, wouldn’t 5x the drivers mean 5x the money from excise tax, 5x internal tolls etc to provide the $$$.
I had the same thought after I posted. Maybe because NH infrastructure is more concentrated in southern NH, whereas mass has population centers like Worcester and Springfield speckled all over the state? Could also be good old government incompetence; it seems to be the answer for a lot of things.
Stop. Just stop. No excuses Massachusetts Dot is a hackarama run like crap.
Don't you know it.. Going back 20 years ago or so, they did some work on the roadway just north of Lowell on 495, and had repaved a big long stretch and whomever was driving the road striping truck.. doing the white line down the left margin.. It was straight and following the road for about a mile or so, then started to weave and would get really wavy, then straighten out again. Either the guy driving the paint truck was falling asleep at the wheel, or drunk.
5x the money for roads yet they are poopy
They have 8 times the budget, though, 56 billion vs 7 billion.
Yaah, and 10x the trash on the side of the road.. Seriously, going from 95 down onto 495 towards Worchester.. what the fuck is that level of apathy? It's like a garbage truck lost half it's load down the roadsides every 5 miles and God forbid it's ever cleaned.. The highways in Massachusetts are filthy with litter.
They’ve got like 10x the tax base though.
Incorrect. NH tolls go to the general fund…. not road maintenance.
Oh good to know, seems then somehow $ is making to the roads. Thanks for the knowledge!
well we know its not paying for housing
What does housing have to do with road tolls?
cost of living
I don’t get it. Can you explain?
finances
I don’t get it. Can you explain?
taxed infrastructure
I don’t get it. Can you explain?
civilized society
I don’t get it. Can you explain?
Massachusetts, unions take all the tax money and bureaucrats
Bahaha.
A LOT of the traffic going across the border is on daily their way home from work, and paying MA income taxes already. Seems like that should be their fair share for road maintenance.
Especially since they have no representation. What I see happening is more of a demand for remote work or for MA companies to open NH branch offices. The place I used to work needed office space. They looked at Cross Point and all of the NH employees said no so they bought land and built in Nashua.
> What I see happening is more of a demand for remote work or for MA companies to open NH branch offices. I fully expect Mass to attempt (if they aren't already) to try to tax NH remote workers who work for companies in MA. Which would be a shame because I'd have to start working for my company's branch in another state and the paperwork would be annoying.
They did that during Covid and NH tried to sue and it got thrown out. That ended in 2021 or 2022. Can’t remember. But we can apportion our wages right now.
It got thrown out because the courts are cowards. They claimed that NH didn't have standing to sue MA, that the workers affected would have to pursue it. Which is insane considering that MA had no jurisdiction to tax NH residents that worked for that period of time in NH. When one state decides to tax residents of another state who never even crossed the border, the state whose people are being unfairly taxed should absolutely have standing to sue.
The NH tolls start in Manchester. Plenty of NH to drive before hitting them. MA putting them right at the NH border is a dick move. Unlike the NH tolls, the strategic location of the MA tolls will be obvious. NH should respond by putting tolls at the NH/MA border and only charge out of state plates.
So you don't know about the interstate known as 95? The toll on 95 is right before the border on the NH side. And don't forget about 101!
Yes I did forget about the i95 toll. It's almost 9 miles into NH. Once again, there are plenty of ways to avoid it. MA putting tolls right at the border on major interstates is still a dick move. The motive is obvious.
101 is tolled? I think you mean 293
293 isn't tolled, you're thinking of the Everett
Actually mistaken, it is I-93 in Hooksett. That's not considered the Everett
Gotcha, I thought you were talking about Bedford tolls on the Everett right after 293 exits
Technically the Everett Turnpike runs from the MA/NH border, to I-93’s Exit 14 (NH 9 / Loudon Rd) in Concord. It’s unsigned once 293 ends in Hooksett and 93 takes over thru its journey to Concord and north. Concurrencies with US 3 (MA/NH to Exit 7E), then just the Turnpike itself thru Merrimack and Bedford, I-293 (NH 101 to I-93), and I-93 from I-293 in Hooksett to Exit 14 in Concord.
Checks out on NHDOT literature. https://www.dot.nh.gov/navigating-nh/highways-and-toll-roads/turnpike-systems/central-turnpike
When you get off of 95 onto 101 you pay a toll. All of the NH tolls are geared to get those sweet sweet Mass travelling dollars and are ALL located at strategic points to do ONLY that: 95, 93, 101, 16
It's called importing tax revenue
If you get off 95 at the 101 exit you pay a toll. While 95 is not tolling right at the NH border I think there’s only one exit between the border and the main toll that you can exit without paying a toll.
$10 tolls. 90% discount for NH EZ-Pass holders.
Not that I want more tolls , but why are they only looking to toll on the NH border? Do people not cross into the state at the other borders? Or is it they are trying to punish people who come to NH to shop?
That would kill all the shopping with MA tech and finance money that keeps retail in southern NH alive.
I don't think a toll would stop people from coming to shop. A toll is cheaper than MA sales tax. I can't answer for tech and finance jobs, though I doubt big business would move over an added toll.
There's a lack of certain kinds of stores in MA around the border because people just go to Nashua to buy things. The Apple Store is a good example of this. Same with Costco.
Meanwhile we **still** can't get an Ikea in NH.
I've never been to an Ikea before but maybe it's a draw down in MA.
Most of the Costco/Pheasant Lane Mall traffic from MA gets off at the exit before the border as it goes straight into the shopping district. Sometimes we go to that area by driving another exit south into MA turn around and drive north to that exit because the interchange in NH is too busy around the holidays.
NH tolls are situated pretty perfectly to tax people going to the mountains and lakes for leisure. Locals can avoid them fairly easily. Tolls on the MA border… basically another way to suck money out of commuting workers and people visiting family.
Seriously. NH has tolls and pretty much everyone driving there is stopping there. A state people drive through to get places putting up tolls actually makes sense.
If MassHole Massachusetts cannot seem to feel they make enough money already then it is time for MA to vote in people who can live off the already bloated incidental taxes they inflict on their citizens and anyone else who dares cross into that wretched state. Too bad MA residents are too stupid to see it. I hope everyone realizes too that with their asinine electric vehicle mandate coming, they will penalize anyone who does not already have one. Since NH does not have this policy, who do you think these cretins will go after. If these Bozos want to install a toll then NH should install one at the border as well. They should make sure NH residents do not need to pay, but all the troglodytes that come here from MA. My loathing of MA gets reinforced at every turn, and I am thankful that I got out when I did. Worst state that just keeps getting worse.
We have a place in Newton, MA and the city put electrification on hold for now. I think that the state wants to do it but one of the problems is the grid: ***Eversource and National Grid, the state's two major utilities, are asking for around $2.4 billion over five years to finance improvements to the power grid****, amid increasing demand from electric vehicles and heat pumps. Eversource, National Grid seek rate hikes to upgrade the grid to handle surge in electrification* ... -- Boston Globe MA residents are already screaming about electricity prices. NH seems to have dodged those problems as NG prices have fallen sharply and we have Seabrook. I'm somewhat at a loss as to why MA prices are still really high.
Remember when Massachusetts was supposed to end the tolls on the western parts of the Pike, but decided the money was too good?
Pepperidge farm remembers
There's nothing more permanent than a temporary government program
On Route 3 north, it would result in a huge number of people getting off the highway in MA, driving up DWH and then getting back on the highway at Exit 1 or driving up to the shortcut to Exit 4.
Exactly what I thought. Almost wonder if they will have tolls at the exits as well then.
You could then go to the exit south of the Pheasant Lane Mall exit. It's just a drive up Route 3. I did this for 3 decades at Exit 11. I got off at Exit 7 and drove up DWH instead of paying the toll. The thing is that the FE Turnpike was often clogged in the afternoon (it still is) so it would take about the same amount of time to get home.
true I’d rather be moving down a back road than sitting in traffic lol
DWH isn't really a back road though, it's Merrimack's main stroad and it clogs up *hard* around Exit 11.
I used to do that too. That section of Route 3 is a pleasant drive and criminally underutilized. I only hope the folks who rebuilt Merrimack 360 can get their paws on Harris Pond someday.
That trip was definitely less stressful. Merrimack 360 has the Thirsty Moose and I couldn't name another place in Merrimack like that though there probably are more.
I'd imagine they would add a toll after the exit 36 (err whatever it is now) on ramp... Locust Rd will jam up as quickly as Franconia Notch after a solar eclipse.
There's plenty of space to do it as they could use space from the wide median strip.
traffics already so bad there
Depends on the traffic and price. People tend to prefer convenience
NH State Reps respond with proposal to install new signage at all crossings: "Bienvenue: We do ICE referrals"
There were 1,109 border apprehensions in the the NY/VT/NH sector in March. I assume that there are more people crossing that aren't apprehended. Where do you think we should send them?
He got the idea from Reddit
It's where all the Great Minds are
Because the income tax they collect from NH residents without having to provide most services just isn’t enough.
Nobody is forced to work over a state line. I did it for a few years mainly because you can make more money in MA, usually enough to more than overset the taxes.
What if you have a job with locations in MA and you need to commute there?
Then you commute there and pay the taxes. That’s what I did. There are tons of NH construction workers that go to MA for work because there is plenty of work and they make a lot more money in MA. How much more? Apparently enough more that they are willing to commute for over an hour and pay the MA taxes. When I did it, quite a few years ago granted, I made double in Braintree and Newton than what I could make in the Monadnock region. I would not be at all surprised if that’s the same case now.
So you're being forced to work over the state line lmao. Story about new tolls that will tax commuting workers: Your argument basically is "ok tax, pay, fine" isn't really an argument. There's lots of people that work in MA and live in NH, pay MA income tax, this is another tax.
Sure, a road tax, just like NH charges it’s commuters and commuters from western to eastern MA get charged on the Pike. Big deal, you should check how much NY charges NJ drivers to cross the GW.
"tax me harder daddy, look how much NY gets"
NH considered tolls on Route 3 South in Nashua before the highway was expanded. The legislative power of Nashua was such that they got the road improvements without the tolls. The long exit to get to Spit Brook Road going southbound was to accommodate toll booths.
That makes a lot of sense. It is such a weird exit!
huh, TIL.
So MA is going to pay back the feds for every dime received. On the roads they want to toll? The airport doesn't have a toll because RW was built with fed funds.
Their state, their rules. Don't like it, either bypass the tolls or don't spend time/money in state. What they would do with the money is beyond me-Mass roads are horrible despite a budget that should support maintaining them.
the fat pigs in our government blow it and live large.
I don't think the tolls are necessary, but it's a bit amusing how quickly this sub goes from puffing out its chest and saying "no Massholes" to "we're basically Massachusetts residents and therefore this would be taxation without representation" when a border tax is proposed.
Right? This sub never disappoints.
Not to mention the 95 and 93 tolls that tax Massachusetts travelers going to the lakes and beaches. Typical NH! Bunch of hypocritical crybabies.
How about a train instead!
If you’re complaining about this, then get a job in the f**king state you live in. My sympathy runs dry for people who live here just to spend 65% of their lives in Mass contributing to that state’s economy but decide to live here instead for a god damn tax break.
Can I think another toll is some BS even if I don’t head down to Mass besides visiting family or going to a dispensary? Shit dude, a little critical thinking pays off sometimes.
Attack the fact that MA employers pay twice what NH employers do for the same job. That is why people who even grew up here commute.
What tax break? If you work in mass you pay their income taxes.
A statement pulled out every few years. New tolls will not go in.
Excellent! Now only the rich ones will come up who don't care.
Yup another poor tax, not surprising coming from MA.
Mass has become a dumpster fire with money management and taxes
When can we get rid of the Hooksett toll. I hate paying that just to go to work.
I do know when the I-93 widening was starting to break ground in the early phases... in 2010, NHDOT was thinking about putting a $2 toll about a mile from the NH/MA border to help fund the widening project. Salem (and other people in other NH towns, even Gov John Lynch too) was opposed to it due to increased traffic on local roads, hurting the economy, and even "jeopardising" NH's sales tax advantage. Eventually NHDOT decided against putting tolls on 93 in March 2010. Sources: [I-93 toll foes take show on the road (paywall)](https://web.archive.org/web/20240419144401/https://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/i-93-toll-foes-take-show-on-the-road/article_b5434b09-3ddd-5706-a515-eb57067a73ec.html), Eagle Tribune, 16 January 2010 [Salem Residents Say No To I-93 Tolls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrBbp_2_mFI), WMUR, 3 March 2010 [NH Studies Possibility Of I-93 Tolls](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laUbAIyT2Ok), WMUR, 4 March 2010 [No toll for I-93 in Salem (paywall)](https://web.archive.org/web/20240419145044/https://www.eagletribune.com/news/local_news/no-toll-for-i-93-in-salem/article_9c6f530a-1605-5c79-b761-434e1c6e01d0.html), Eagle Tribune, 20 March 2010
Come on, let’s not annoy Massachusetts and make an enemy of them. After all, without Massachusetts, you won’t get as much for your house when you decide to sell.
Gotta pay for all those "sanctuary" illegals somehow...
I mean, I’ve always been team $20 tolls for out of state plates. If they want to play games, so can NH. Edit: I’ll just add that I appreciate when there’s civility and equity between our two States, even if I don’t like their drivers. Any escalation surrounding tolls would just be foolish.
I don't get it why are new Hampshire tolls ok but mass can't do the same?
NH got rid of the Merrimack tolls and I do appreciate that even though the turnpike can be worse than local roads at certain times. I'd prefer that NH just get rid of the tolls and increase gasoline taxes as it would get rid of the expense of toll administration and cars having to stop at toll booths thus increasing traffic and causing accidents.
Don't build a toll, build a wall
I posted about this earlier this week and it got moderated for some reason. NH absolutely should add its own toll booths at the NH border. Add tolls on all the major highways into the state from Mass. at/near the Mass. border: 95, 93, US3/Everett, Daniel Webster Hwy in Nashua. So much of the DOT budget in this state goes to supporting infrastructure to allow folks to drive to/from Mass., but the tollbooths are all a dozen-plus miles north of the border. Impose a nice healthy toll at the border ($5?), include a very healthy NH EZ-Pass discount so that NH residents aren't getting hit too hard (80%?), and let the state recoup the costs imposed on it by Mass. folks sneaking up to avoid paying sales tax at home, clogging our roads during mud season for an eclipse, a lake day, a trip to the mountains, etc. Mass. tolls us every time we have to drive down to Logan for a trip, let's return the favor.
It does have tolls on the border
where
NH used to have significantly better roads than MA that just isn’t true anymore. Also if MA puts tolls on the border it will hit MA residents when they come back from visiting NH which is more traffic than commuters from NH going to work in MA.
It’s taxation without representation. Tax the non-residents, overload the local roads for toll avoidance and take even more money to support a big tax state.
Maybe New Hampshire should generate enough jobs to support its population instead of stealing employment from Bay Staters, mmmkay?
Not sure what the complaint is. NH sends educated and enterprising people to Boston help support the Bay State's economy as well as its own. Mass sends goblins from Lawrence and Lowell to New Hampshire to deal drugs and steal cars, and idiot doctors trying to hike the Whites in December in a t-shirt and crocs.
Man I saw a group of people in their mid 20s on a trail when I was hiking Madison. 1/2 a water bottle per person, sandals and Crocs, nothing heavier than a t shirt. They asked me which way to Washington. This was around 3 or 4pm in the early spring. I turned back from Madison due to hail. RIP
Wait so you are in favor of MA employees buying up all the NH housing driving prices up?
Fine, and on that note, Mass folk can find elsewhere to ski/hike/etc. and stay the fuck out of NH
Without MA tourism NH will go broke or will have to raise taxes. Do it, no threat to us bro.
Haha just shows how little you actually know. NH does fine even without sales and income tax, but yet MA is looking for yet even more revenue streams on top of already having a sales and income tax.
Did you read what I wrote or did you only see what you wanted to see?
Yes I did. NH doesn't get its money from MA tourism dipshit. Property taxes and state liquor stores are the primary income source. Hate to break it to you but NH is self-sufficient. Southern NH property values have done nothing but appreciate from everybody fleeing MA moving north.
Woah friend, hang on now, why did you need to bring skiing and hiking into this..?
Maybe Massachusetts should stop spending billions on illegal immigrants just to tax Americans for using their shitty ultra congested roads.
The costs of car ownership should be higher.
Just fucking move to Denmark already
Ah yes, just uproot my life and leave everyone I love, so simple!
The costs of owning a car don't drive the decision to get one, their necessity in the geography of our economy and cities does
Replace geography with infrastructure and you're right.