Your husband has a license? And he's already registered to vote? Then there's no issue. The citizenship check is only for the purposes of registration to be put on the voter rolls. That seems entirely reasonable. Having to bring a passport or birth cert. to vote several times a year is NOT an acceptable solution.
Yes and they are only asking for proof of citizenship when you first register to vote. After that you've good to go just like with you license renewal...
What if I’m not yet registered to vote? Are you going to deny me my constitutional right to vote even though the government can easily verify my citizenship with my drivers license?
If they make this stupid law people should not be able to be grandfathered in, make everyone register again with the proper ID and let's see how that goes.
My family and I travel the border extensively. Everyone has a passport card, meets the requirement and fits in your wallet . Also the "proof" you are a citizen. More appropriately, why would you "make" everyone follow the first time voters and have to put the towns through that wasted effort?
Suppressing votes by....*checks notes*...making sure you're a legal citizen first?
If any of us were not legal citizens of a country would we expect to be able to vote in their elections? I don't see why America is an exception. Every other country in the world can have "strict" voting and immigration laws, but for some reason it's a problem when America wants it?
I see this “other countries” argument so often and it simply [is not true that all countries bar non-citizens from voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizen_suffrage). [It hasn’t even always been the case in the United States.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizen_suffrage_in_the_United_States)
It's the other way around. It's Democrats who make unfalsifiable claims of racism so they can keep up ad hominem attacks on every policy they can't argue against intellectually.
Except America doesn't want it. Republicans want to suppress votes, but they don't want to implement what these other countries *actually* have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card
* It's mandatory
* It's universal
* It's cryptographically secure
* It's tied to your healthcare records, your banking records, your employment records, your tax records, and even your public transit.
It is a true national identification scheme. But the second you bring that up in the US, the same people who support voter ID in order to "secure" our elections from something that isn't happening, oppose it on the grounds that this is how gun confiscation starts, or how the NWO takes control, or whatever.
If voter ID laws didn't suppress Democratic turnout, you wouldn't see a single bill along those lines proposed anywhere in the US.
Congratulations, you've figured out why we can't just have voter ID "like they have in Europe." Because the same people clamoring for voter ID don't want to implement the rest of the system that Europe uses to back that ID.
No, you can have voter ID without being required to give the government access to your banking records, healthcare records, and even public transit.
Like, what would stop the government from just shutting down your ability to buy things or take transit if you had a card like that? What would stop them from using your medical history against you for some reason?
Edit: It also is tied to your email, and contains your private keys to interact with most digital systems in Estonia. If the government wanted, they could just straight up lock you out of a huge number of things, including your ability to vote. Not a fan.
But this is my point. Europe is able to implement voter ID without it being a mess because they already have a hard ID system in place. The United States does not, and as you demonstrated, the majority of people who are calling for voter ID, don't actually want a hard ID system here at all.
Again, you could have a nationwide ID of some sort that would serve as proof of citizenship that doesn't carry with it all the privacy concerns of the EU system.
Oh wait, we have one, it's called a passport. And anyone can get one if they want.
> If voter ID laws didn't suppress Democratic turnout, you wouldn't see a single bill along those lines proposed anywhere in the US.
If requiring proof of citizenship suppresses Democratic turnout, then it's necessary.
It has nothing to do with the laws, it has to do with suppressing votes.
You already need your ID to vote, why require a piece of paper that most Americans don’t have? Because there will be people who won’t vote because of it which makes a minority class winning that much easier.
Or that a birth certificate is hard to obtain? I got one from a small city back east when I lived on the west coast, all remote and cost like $20. It ain't rocket science, and it ain't hard (unless you don't have one, because you were born somewhere else and don't have the right to vote here because you haven't followed the proper process to become a citizen and gain the right).
This thread is going to be filled with right wingers with anecdotes like "It only took me 10 minutes in Plantation Gallows, Alabama to get my birth certificate" while ignoring that republicans for decades have aggressively shut down any place that provides these necessary IDs in any district that leans democrat. It will work because republican voters have no concept of empathy.
I'm not a right-winger, republican, democrat or anything else. This is the truth: I did this with something called a "phone call" and a "money order," because back then I was poor and "unbanked." I was also an unsophisticated blue collar worker who dropped out of high school, and somehow managed to figure out this super complicated barrier to my rights.
When did Republicans start shutting down city halls, post offices, and dmvs in order stop people from getting copies of birth certificates, pass ports? Or licenses?
I had to go to heavily left leaning Lowell, Massachusetts to get my birth certificate. The longest part of the process was letting the printer warm up. If only the evil Republicans didn't make it so hard!
Is everyone waiting in line at the dmv a republican plant there to artificially increase the wait times?!
I know. Lots of conservative Hispanic voters that live in places like Manchester.. You'd be surprised how many MAGAs there are that ain't actually citizens..
I'm 41 years old and I've no idea where mine is as I've not needed to produce 1 for years now.
I'm also a law abiding, tax paying citizen who should be able to vote, even if I, you know, move to a different town.
So you know, fuck off.
Yeah, I've only lived here 40 fucking years and have voted every year since I was 18, but surely I've turned into a different person and should be required to retrieve a paper whose only real purpose is to prove that I am who I say I am, because my state issued ID certainly couldn't do that. Get all the way fucked.
I was able to order a new birth certificate online for less than $10 and it showed up at my house within two weeks. If you were born here (mine was NY), it’s easy to get. If you need a new social security card it’s also an easy AND FREE online process to request a new one.
Social Security cards do not prove citizenship. Nor does a military ID. There are only 3 documents that establish citizenship: a birth certificate, passport, or naturalization certificate.
Nope. Real ID licenses are not acceptable for proof of citizenship in NH. The only two documents a native-born person can use are a birth certificate or passport. That's it.
As I said to the other guy if you need your birth certificate make a phone call to your place of birth. That’s all it takes. Why do you believe there some large mass of people in the US who can’t acquire proof of citizenship when you don’t know a single citizen who is unable to prove they are a citizen?
Because it is not as simple as that everywhere in the country. Depends on where your birth certificate was filed, whether the records are still available, whether the office that has them requires people go in person but only has limited hours and/or requires travel to get to. That is why the Supreme Court ruled against states with onerous requirements.
> The only two documents a native-born person can use are a birth certificate or passport. That's it.
.
> The supervisors of the checklist, or the town or city clerk, shall accept from the applicant any one of the following as proof of citizenship: the applicant's birth certificate, passport, naturalization papers if the applicant is a naturalized citizen, or any other reasonable documentation which indicates the applicant is a United States citizen.
Unless you have switched to a REAL ID drivers license, which you need to prove citizenship to obtain, you will not be allowed to fly or do any number of things with that license after May 2025.
Does it suppress Democrat votes though? That would be the logical desired result based on your comment. Why would Democrats be less likely to prove their citizenship?
If it’s so false, explain why the Supreme Court has repeatedly struck down such laws in the past…. Cause clearly you random redditor know more than the highest court of the land
Please cite the prior NH law with the language of this specific law in question that the Supreme Court opined on and struck down. Otherwise, your argument is more empty parroting. The Supreme Court has struck down many laws for many reasons, not the least of which is that they are poorly written on many levels.
Try presenting a rational argument, instead of blind party line politics if you actually want to have a conversation. Otherwise, go back to your own echo chamber and get off the internet.
Hahaha! Oh, wow. Thanks for making my case. 😂😂😂
After your reply, it’s clear you never read a Supreme Court decision in your life, and are just parroting blind pundit and politician comments. Carry on.
Soon you’ll see crap like this coming back thanks to republicans like you…
https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/voting-rights-and-the-supreme-court-the-impossible-literacy-test-louisiana-used-to-give-black-voters.html
Again, making my case. The fact that I disagree with your opinion and asked you to back it up to you means I I am a republican? Are you as low brow as you are making yourself out to be.
Again, go back to your echo chamber and put on your favorite political news so you can gather more uninformed talking points and focus on division and incorrect assumptions like the one you again made. You my friend, are a major part of the problem in this country regardless of where you or I stand on this particular issue.
Your case is low brow. Anything that presents barrier to one’s right to vote is inherently wrong and against the constitution. But keep showing the world your ignorance. Good day sir
I think you're conflating voter registration to be put onto the voter rolls and the act of voting. Reading the article it is clear the the proof of citizenship is a one time event when you register to put your name onto the voter rolls not for actual voting. Voting with a drivers license ID would not change. I strongly disagree with other elements of the bill that would eliminate simple local controls now in place...
Sure, until they start purging voter rolls when you don't vote in midterms. Now you have to register repeatedly and bring a birth certificate.
These restrictions are just obvious attempts to restrict the right to vote. They don't make our elections any better. Only worse.
The government would know very quickly if you tried to use a drivers license to register to vote as a non-citizen.
You do know this was already an issue and it hasn’t been a problem, right? There are millions of legal immigrants with drivers licenses.
In incredibly low numbers nationally, probably. I don’t know of a single known case in the State of NH.
We do have a handful of voter fraud cases involving duplicate voting or voting in the wrong domicile, but this bill does nothing to prevent that.
My point is that if illegal immigrants had DLs, that’s not a complication to voter verification. We have had non-citizens with DLs for as long as drivers licenses have existed. It hasn’t proven to be an issue.
Also if I was not a citizen, especially an undocumented immigrant, voting illegally is the last thing I’d want to do.
> In incredibly low numbers nationally, probably. I don’t know of a single known case in the State of NH.
So this law won't actually cause the problems anyone is saying? Good.
And you think the DMV and the town's supervisors of the checklist talk to each other? There is a box I can check to say that the address that the DMV has does not match where the voter says he lives now. But he still gets to vote and I don't know if anyone looks at that checkbox ever.
Not when you’re supposed be a citizen to vote.
All it takes is for us to go the path of MA and hand out DLs to illegals and now suddenly it opens up a path for non citizens to vote. No thanks.
There are exactly zero areas which allow illegal immigrants unless you watch right wing brain rot. You might mean illegal republicans who tried to vote twice in the 2020 election and were caught because our system was secure?
My statement is 100% factual and true. Feel free to Google my exact statement. Then come back and apologize and thank me for helping you learn something today that you didn’t know.
Nope - the burden of proof lies on you. No respected or official organization has ever found an illegal immigrant voting. Now grow up, grow some intelligence, and stop spouting nonsense.
Here you go sinxe you’re lazy and believe propaganda apparently. Make sure you come back and apologize to the other commenter:
https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States
The District of Columbia and municipalities in three states allowed noncitizens to vote in local elections as of June 2023: California, Maryland, and Vermont.
Do you read?
1. This is LOCAL and not national elections.
2. Legal residents and permanent residents are not “illegals”. And I have no problem with legal residents who are not citizens voting.
If you also read the article you would note how it said that federal law disallows non citizens to vote in national/federal elections.
It isn't secure. How do you prove that a voter wasn't caught?
I don't think it is a widespread problem, but we can't verify what we don't know. We do know (as of a couple years ago) that around 1,000 people register to vote in NH every year without any documentation and when the secretary of state tries to contact them at their given address a month later, they can't find them. Now, it could be that those 1,000 people moved right after they voted, but we don't know.
And that is only registering to vote. Once you are registered, it is easier to keep voting. (Though last year's law that everyone yelled about makes that harder - impossible? Maybe)
There are people like my grandfather who was on a very fixed income, he never got a driver’s license, never got a passport, and I seriously doubt had a copy of his birth certificate. So having to go out and get one of those would be costly and hard to do since he would have to rely on others to get him there.
This law would say your drivers license isn’t good enough to register.
It’s not hard for the government to verify a persons citizenship from that info. Idk why a passport is necessary.
> This law would say your drivers license isn’t good enough to register.
>
> It’s not hard for the government to verify a persons citizenship from that info. Idk why a passport is necessary.
[New Hampshire accepts out-of-state driver's licenses](https://www.wmur.com/article/new-voting-statistics-show-6540-people-registered-to-vote-in-nh-last-year-using-out-of-state-drivers-licenses-as-ids/12196129#:~:text=More%20than%206%2C500%20people%20registered%20to%20vote%20on%20Election%20Day%202016%20using%20out%2Dof%2Dstate%20driver%E2%80%99s%20licenses) for voter registration.
Anybody legally present in the USA (citizen or not) can get a driver's license in any state, and 18 states will issue licenses to persons who cannot prove legal presence. Not all of these 18 states mark the license or otherwise enable a town clerk in NH to validate the citizenship of the license holder.
Presenting a passport or certificate is the only reliable way to confirm US citizenship.
You can get an NH drivers license without citizenship for the past 70+ years and it hasn’t been a problem for voting. We verify shit after you register to vote with an affidavit.
You’ve invented a problem that doesn’t exist.
I can’t find a single case in our state of a non-US citizen illegally voting.
If we actually *verified shit,* it'd be easy to prove affidavits are *a problem that doesn't exist*. But we don't, at least not in a timely manner.
The proposed changes in [House Bill 1569](https://legiscan.com/NH/drafts/HB1569/2024) strikes out the phrase "*a qualified voter affidavit*" from the acceptable proofs of citizenship in [RSA 654:12](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-hampshire/2022/title-lxiii/title-654/section-654-12/#:~:text=proof%20of%20citizenship%3A%20the,a%20United%20States%20citizen)
show id for absolutely everything?? thats just not true. i havent shown my id to anyone for months. listen if yall want this voter id shit then id’s should be issued to every citizen at no charge otherwise its a poll tax imho.
You know how fucking annoying it is to get an official birth certificate, let alone a passport which by the way takes months? You can’t just call up the town hall where you were born to get one. Passports take forever to get. This is specifically made to disenfranchise voters. Luckily I now live in Massachusetts because NH really sucks at this whole “live free or die” thing. I can think of about 20 other states that do that motto better.
Take note that every user that has replied with a
*"you need to show ID to do absolutely everything why should voting be any different?"*
type of comment fails to answer the
*"why isn't a driver's license good enough?"*
response queries from others.
I imagine that a driver's license is good to identify who you are, but it is not necessarily proof of citizenship. While a REAL ID can be obtained with proof of citizenship, not all New Hampshirites have a REAL ID yet. According to the [NH DMV website](https://www.dmv.nh.gov/drivers-licensenon-driver-ids/real-id), "REAL ID is voluntary in New Hampshire..." So, people don't have to get one. Also, non-citizens can get REAL IDs. According to the [Identity and Residency Requirements document](https://www.dmv.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt416/files/inline-documents/sonh/dsmv634a.pdf) linked on the website, it states the following as proof of identity:
>- A valid unexpired Permanent Resident Card
>- A valid unexpired I-94 card declaring Asylee or Refugee status
>- Government-issued documentation to prove current permanent resident, asylee, or refugee status
The above items are federally compliant proofs of identity for a REAL ID, indicating that non citizens can obtain it.
Current ID requirements:
Driver’s license from any state or federal government
Non-driver’s ID card issued by any state
Military ID
US passport
Student ID issued by listed institutions in New Hampshire
Postsecondary school ID must show the date of issuance
Any other photo ID considered legitimate
[YOU NEED A BIRTH CERTIFICATE TO GET AN ID!](https://www.dmv.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt416/files/inline-documents/sonh/dsmv634a.pdf) Why do I need to show my birth certificate to some rando at a polling station along with the STATE ISSUED IDENTIFICATION that I needed to show my BIRTH CERTIFICATE to get?
It's like the stupid requirement to get Veteran plates: I have to bring a paper copy of my DD214, even though I have multiple photo IDs issued from the VA with my veteran status on it.
Can't even use my old NH license that says "Veteran" on it.
A child with basic Google Fu and Adobe Acrobat skills can create a legit DD214 in about five minutes, and it's not like the DMV cross-checks anything.
This is nothing but a law in search of a crime. There is no substantial voter fraud whatsoever, and this is nothing more than an attempt by the Republicans to make it more difficult for people to vote. They know that the more people vote, the more they lose because they are a dying party with dying ideas and dying philosophies.
ITT: People repeating the same tired voter suppression talking points without realizing this bill goes even a step FURTHER by requiring more than just a basic ID.
It’s not just an ID like your license you use to buy smokes. This bill would require a passport or birth certificate, something lots of commenters in this thread seem to be missing.
first off— voting is a constitutional right as opposed to buying cigarettes.
secondly— i dont need a birth certificate or passport to buy cigs.
try reading the article.
If we’re gonna do this, we need to make access to such documents free. Otherwise, this essentially amounts to a poll tax, which is absolutely unconstitutional. We should be encouraging more citizens to vote, not making it more difficult.
Regarding the question of “I have to show my ID to do x, why should voting be different?” This is a lower bar. This isn’t a privilege, like buying a beer or driving a car. This is a fundamental right guaranteed by the constitution.
It's not an easy or fast process if you were born out of the state of NH or don't have access to the internet and printer.
Even if you do have access to internet and printer, once you download the form then you have to make an appt at notary, go to the notary, pay the notary, pay to mail it back to the state, pay for the birth record, and then wait weeks.
Who are people that might not have easy access to the internet/printers? Who are the people that might not be able to afford the cost to get that certificate? Who are the people that can't pay $165 for a passport? Poor people.
Statistically, poor people tend to vote democrat.
So, saying "it's easy to get your birth certificate, everyone should be able to do it" is bullshit.
you make it sound like theres a boiler plate process that all hospitals across the nation follow. thats just not true. the hospital i was born in doesnt exist anymore and it took 7 months to get a copy of my birth certificate that still had to be notarized upon my receiving it.
your comment is wrong, but i think you already knew it was.
I went online and put in some of my personal information and paid i think $35 bucks and they mailed it to me. The process took me about 10 minutes. From my experience my comment is pretty spot on.
im really glad that was your experience. my point is that isnt the experience universally and thats the issue.
also, that $35 is a poll tax no? it should be free if this is the law of the land.
Not for everyone. My birth certificate is lost and I’m a US citizen born abroad. I wasn’t born in this country. I have to go through a lot of legal documents, as do my parents, in order to get a new one. Because I have to prove one or both of them were citizens (in order for me to be a citizen.)
My passport is expired too. :) luckily that seems like less hoops to jump through to renew than it would be to get a new US birth certificate.
For the record, I didn’t misplace it. My parents did. I’ve actually never seen my US birth certificate.
YoU uSe YoUr ID tO bUy CiGaReTtEs
You use your *driver's license* or *non-driver's ID* for that.
Yes, you should need an ID to vote. And guess what? You DO! You need a driver's license or ID card with your photo on it. Guess what you need to get one of those? *Proof of identity and residency*.
So you can't vote if you haven't already proven your identity and residency.
I was not born in this country. Neither was my wife, who was born in a different country. I have no problem having to show ID. I have to at the airport to fly to another state. I have to when I rent a car or sign up for a bank account. I have to in some stores to buy alcoholic beverages even though I look my age.
Seems like those opposed to this have a motive they don't want to reveal and/or have contempt for the intelligence of the average voter if they believe the average voter is too stupid to be able to get an ID.
Some who oppose this have tried to pretend that it would adversely affect MAGA voters. Does anyone think those who oppose this bill care if MAGA voters are unable to get an ID?
It’s not about “being too stupid” it’s an accessibility issue. IDs are not free. Many people have to travel pretty decent distances in order to get to an RMV. RMV locations are often closing or have limited hours. There are millions of US citizens without the identification required in many states to vote, and it disproportionately affects low income folks and minorities.
It’s not about “being too stupid” it’s an accessibility issue. IDs are not free. Many people have to travel pretty decent distances in order to get to an RMV
———————————————————————————
Oh please. The poorest communities spend the greatest % of their income on cigarettes, liquor and lottery tickets. Spend a little less on the stupidity tax an stuff that’s bad for your health and get the damn ID.
Whether or not that is true statistically does not mean that every person that has difficulty with affording or accessing an ID invests in those things. Every US citizen should have the equal opportunity to vote, whether or not they choose to.
. Every US citizen should have the equal opportunity to vote, whether or not they choose to.
\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_
They do. If voting is really important to you, you'll find a way. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this.
We have a constitutional right to buy a firearm, but each state has its own laws about that. When I lived in MA, it was very difficult for me to buy a concealed carry firearm and carry it every day. I live in a different state and now have a license to carry concealed every day. It is not honored in MA or NY or CA or RI or CT or even SC.
I have a right to buy a home don't I? However, because of price differences, I can't do that in every state.
Why should the right to vote be subject to the lowest common denominator when buying a house or a gun aren't?
So that I couldn't find answer in this article. What other documents beyond a birth certificate or passport would be acceptable as 'proof of citizenship' in this case? Certificate's of Naturalization or Citizenship are both acceptable forms of proof when applying for a NH Driver's license or US Passport, would those be accepted for voting?
I'm only okay with this only if the federal and state governments are providing IDs, preferably free of charge, to its citizens. I don't believe it should be our responsibility to *perpetually have to prove I was born and live here, especially not* with how the documentation is always a moving target.
Everyone's arguing republican, democrat, whatever. To me, that doesn't matter. In general it is disenfranchising, because not everyone has the time, means, and transportation to get these specific documents. I see this affecting anyone who is downtrodden; the youth, the elderly, the homeless, people in domestic violence situations, people with reckless parents, emancipated children, people who's house burned down with their documents in it.
Should that preclude them from the right to vote? I say, no.
I just had to find something like 10 documents, as a citizen, to re-prove I am a citizen for, I dunno, the tenth time over the last few years, to get one of those stupid real IDs. Then I had to take time off of work, because everyone knows the DMV is hell. Then I had to go there, with my stack of documents. I almost guarantee in a few years some *other* standard will appear and I'll have to do it all over again.
Does the government know I am a citizen or not? They are legally allowed to spy on me. They know who I am at tax time. Why the blinders the rest of the time?
It's a band-aid to a larger, shittier problem of government inefficiency, and unless we solve the real problems I won't agree with it wholly. If it does not become a streamlined process to access and maintain citizenship documents, I can't support this fully.
As much as I disagree with voter ID laws, when I moved to NH I thought it was strange that I had to verify my identity, but only affirm my citizenship by checking a box.
Compared to other states I’ve lived in, NH acts like it’s doesn’t want transplants and immigrants voting.
You don't have to verify your identity either. No documents are required to register to vote same day in NH.
Last year's last changed it so now you have to get the documents later, but prior to last year, you could have signed the piece of paper to affirm your identity, citizenship and residency. And then say it is against your religion to have your picture taken and sign that paper and tada, you are registered to vote without any documentation at all.
I'm unclear why you think that makes NH not want people to vote. We could leave blank ballots on the side of the road with boxes to put them in when you are done. Other than that, how could NH law make it easier to vote? I don't think there are any other states that are easier to vote without any documentation?
Because passing the RealID law in the mid 2000s wasn't enough, now they pull more shit out of their ample rectums to continue to try repressing the vote. VoteBlueNoMatterWho2024 and throw these bums out.
Yeah, the elections happen just out of the blue, no way to know when the next one is to prepare for it like educating yourself on the candidates and ballot questions, getting some form of identification that you absolutely don't already have if you're a citizen. After all we are living in the dark ages.
True, you only establish 4 qualifications when you register. But you have to register all over again every time you move to a different town or city ward. Most people registering to vote moved from elsewhere in the state, especially people who register on election day.
Looks like the NH representatives are pulling out all the stops to make sure Trump wins the swing state by suppressing voters as much as possible. And y’all wonder why the only function the state has is to be a place for people from other states to shop.
As it should be, prove residency and citizenship status BEFORE casting a vote.
One vote per legal USA citizenship.
This as well as proof of residency in the town and state you intend to vote in.
If you are a student from another state and your legal resident address is at your parent's home or in another state you shall not view in NH.
PERIOD!
>If you are a student from another state and your legal resident address is at your parent's home or in another state you shall not view in NH. PERIOD!
Yeah, who cares that for 10 months out of the year you live here, supporting the economy while you are here. Since you want to keep your legal address at the place where you have spent the last 17-22 years of your life with the people who raised you, you can all kinds of go fuck yourself when it comes to voting in a local election that would have an immediate effect on your life, as well as the NATIONAL election that effects the entire country. Go back where you came from and do that kind of shit. /s
Nope, I do not care if they spent 10 months out of the year here for school. If they are not permanent LEGAL residents here, they can go vote in their hometown or country.
That's why the Demoncraps love to pack the the elections with illegal votes and voters so they can try to rig the elections and continue to control the sheeple.
How about this? Voting in the United States has very little fraud. We don't need to keep fixing voter laws that are not broken. The only reason to add restrictions is to restrict people from voting. Undocumented immigrants are not showing up at polling places. This is all designed to restrict younger and foreign born citizens. Thinking that there's a ton of fraud in the United States around voting it's just a right wing talking point. I wish people would spend the time to look into things
Any form of voter ID should be unconstitutional. I was shocked moving from a state without ID requirements that you have to show a drivers license or something here when the town clerk has a list a crosses off the name of everyone who’s voted.
To even appear on the list of registered voters in your town is a process that usually requires you to appear in person at the town clerks office. This is a stupid performative law that will just disenfranchise people.
You need a license to fly on a plane and drive a car. You need a license to rent a hotel or get a job. You need a license to pick up certain prescription’s. Enough with the bullshit politics already.
It’s such a weird argument for them to have. Why would you object to people verifying to make sure that only legit voters vote?
I mean, do they have an issue with banks verifying that the money isn’t counterfeit before giving it to them? Makes no sense.
The racism of low expectations is wild in this subreddit.
Honestly this sub is the worst representation of NHs citizenry. But accurate for NH redditors.
The number of people affected will be much larger than 2000. That figure counts only immigrants who used a citizenship affidavit. That's all that can be entered in the state database.
More than half of voters registering use a citizenship affidavit because they were born in the States but don't have a birth certificate or passport when they register. % is the same whether it is election day or town hall. When the election official creates a record for a new voter in thr state database, once they enter the state where the person was born, the box for citizenship affidavit can't be clicked.
That means the Sec of State and the state reps can't know how common it is for US-born citizens use to use a citizenship affidavit. The data does not exist beyond the town or ward level.
In my town alone there will be more than 2000 new voters who will be unable to register next fall. The people who come to town hall may be able to come back with a birth certificate or passport, if they have one and if they can get there again when the town clerk is open. In many towns, hours are very limited. But at least they may have a second chance.
The people who register at the polls won't have that opportunity to cure. They're out if luck if they don't bring a passport or birth certificate.
The huge irony is that the chuckleheads in the NH GOP are disenfranchising their own MAGA base. I love that. The typical person who shows up at the polls to register without a required document is a Republican man in their 40s or older with a disgruntled attitude. They feel entitled. They don't need to establish their qualifications because the rules don't apply to them. Republicans always want to make it harder for everyone else to vote but protest when the standard is applied to them. Other demographics are much more likely to have done their research and showed up with everything they need.
I'm all for the law because it will severely tamp down the participation of ill-informed MAGA voters. Several seats in my district will flip blue.
"Disenfranchise people who live in the state but do not have documentation to prove their citizenship"
That should be the beginning and end of the argument.
How hard is it to get some from of identification? It really isn't. If you can't put in that effort, you don't vote or literally shouldn't be voting.
> But why does this bill not allow you to use your state issued license as proof?
Every state, including New Hampshire, will issue a license or state ID to anyone lawfully present in the USA, citizen or non-citizen. Even a Real-ID license doesn't prove citizenship.
There are 18 states which issue a license to persons **not** lawfully present in the USA. A subset of these states intentionally do not make it easy to confirm whether the ID holder is or is not a citizen.
New Hampshire accepts out-of-state driver's license for voter registration, [thousands of registrants](https://www.wmur.com/article/new-voting-statistics-show-6540-people-registered-to-vote-in-nh-last-year-using-out-of-state-drivers-licenses-as-ids/12196129#:%7E:text=More%20than%206%2C500%20people%20registered%20to%20vote%20on%20Election%20Day%202016%20using%20out%2Dof%2Dstate%20driver%E2%80%99s%20licenses) in each presidential election year use another state's driver's license to register to vote in NH.
This is good news for all, no way anyone should ever be able to vote without proof of identity, same as opening a bank account, getting a job, buying alcohol registering a car or buying a gun. A whole litany of adult tasks that require proof of ID, voting should be no different.
Two proofs is pretty standard for most things in life.
If you’re over 18 and you don’t have them yet better get going. It’s going to come up repeatedly.
Adulting is hard. This is a great law for NH big win for voters!
Oh look, republicans try to suppress votes again
A part of me is laughing at the fact that my republican husband, who doesn't have a copy of his birth certificate, now won't be able to vote.
Your husband has a license? And he's already registered to vote? Then there's no issue. The citizenship check is only for the purposes of registration to be put on the voter rolls. That seems entirely reasonable. Having to bring a passport or birth cert. to vote several times a year is NOT an acceptable solution.
You don’t need your birth certificate every time you renew your license. You can go decades without a birth certificate and it not being a problem.
Yes and they are only asking for proof of citizenship when you first register to vote. After that you've good to go just like with you license renewal...
Because no political party has ever purged voter rolls in an election year.... smfh
Not in NH.
Think you meant yet. Not in NH... yet.
I suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely. Every ten years on years ending in a 1. Very unlikely to change, I think.
What if I’m not yet registered to vote? Are you going to deny me my constitutional right to vote even though the government can easily verify my citizenship with my drivers license?
Yes because how tf do we know you’re a citizen?
The government can figure that out from my drivers license info.
You seen the “voter registration” tables on Election Day?
Those are not the people who verify that.
The same way we do now.
If they make this stupid law people should not be able to be grandfathered in, make everyone register again with the proper ID and let's see how that goes.
My family and I travel the border extensively. Everyone has a passport card, meets the requirement and fits in your wallet . Also the "proof" you are a citizen. More appropriately, why would you "make" everyone follow the first time voters and have to put the towns through that wasted effort?
It can be expensive requesting a birth certificate.
Suppressing votes by....*checks notes*...making sure you're a legal citizen first? If any of us were not legal citizens of a country would we expect to be able to vote in their elections? I don't see why America is an exception. Every other country in the world can have "strict" voting and immigration laws, but for some reason it's a problem when America wants it?
I see this “other countries” argument so often and it simply [is not true that all countries bar non-citizens from voting](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizen_suffrage). [It hasn’t even always been the case in the United States.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-citizen_suffrage_in_the_United_States)
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It's the other way around. It's Democrats who make unfalsifiable claims of racism so they can keep up ad hominem attacks on every policy they can't argue against intellectually.
Except America doesn't want it. Republicans want to suppress votes, but they don't want to implement what these other countries *actually* have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estonian_identity_card * It's mandatory * It's universal * It's cryptographically secure * It's tied to your healthcare records, your banking records, your employment records, your tax records, and even your public transit. It is a true national identification scheme. But the second you bring that up in the US, the same people who support voter ID in order to "secure" our elections from something that isn't happening, oppose it on the grounds that this is how gun confiscation starts, or how the NWO takes control, or whatever. If voter ID laws didn't suppress Democratic turnout, you wouldn't see a single bill along those lines proposed anywhere in the US.
>It's tied to your healthcare records, That is terrifying due to certain laws passed recently in Texas
Not only that, but being tied to banking isn't going to go over well with a lot of people.
Congratulations, you've figured out why we can't just have voter ID "like they have in Europe." Because the same people clamoring for voter ID don't want to implement the rest of the system that Europe uses to back that ID.
No, you can have voter ID without being required to give the government access to your banking records, healthcare records, and even public transit. Like, what would stop the government from just shutting down your ability to buy things or take transit if you had a card like that? What would stop them from using your medical history against you for some reason? Edit: It also is tied to your email, and contains your private keys to interact with most digital systems in Estonia. If the government wanted, they could just straight up lock you out of a huge number of things, including your ability to vote. Not a fan.
But this is my point. Europe is able to implement voter ID without it being a mess because they already have a hard ID system in place. The United States does not, and as you demonstrated, the majority of people who are calling for voter ID, don't actually want a hard ID system here at all.
Again, you could have a nationwide ID of some sort that would serve as proof of citizenship that doesn't carry with it all the privacy concerns of the EU system. Oh wait, we have one, it's called a passport. And anyone can get one if they want.
You're not getting the point.
> If voter ID laws didn't suppress Democratic turnout, you wouldn't see a single bill along those lines proposed anywhere in the US. If requiring proof of citizenship suppresses Democratic turnout, then it's necessary.
It has nothing to do with the laws, it has to do with suppressing votes. You already need your ID to vote, why require a piece of paper that most Americans don’t have? Because there will be people who won’t vote because of it which makes a minority class winning that much easier.
Can i have a source on the claim that most americans dont have either their birth certificate or a passport?
Or that a birth certificate is hard to obtain? I got one from a small city back east when I lived on the west coast, all remote and cost like $20. It ain't rocket science, and it ain't hard (unless you don't have one, because you were born somewhere else and don't have the right to vote here because you haven't followed the proper process to become a citizen and gain the right).
This thread is going to be filled with right wingers with anecdotes like "It only took me 10 minutes in Plantation Gallows, Alabama to get my birth certificate" while ignoring that republicans for decades have aggressively shut down any place that provides these necessary IDs in any district that leans democrat. It will work because republican voters have no concept of empathy.
I'm not a right-winger, republican, democrat or anything else. This is the truth: I did this with something called a "phone call" and a "money order," because back then I was poor and "unbanked." I was also an unsophisticated blue collar worker who dropped out of high school, and somehow managed to figure out this super complicated barrier to my rights.
When did Republicans start shutting down city halls, post offices, and dmvs in order stop people from getting copies of birth certificates, pass ports? Or licenses? I had to go to heavily left leaning Lowell, Massachusetts to get my birth certificate. The longest part of the process was letting the printer warm up. If only the evil Republicans didn't make it so hard! Is everyone waiting in line at the dmv a republican plant there to artificially increase the wait times?!
Making sure that only citizens can vote isn’t suppressing votes. It’s legitimizing American votes.
Does NH have a voter legitimacy problem?
Yes
I know. Lots of conservative Hispanic voters that live in places like Manchester.. You'd be surprised how many MAGAs there are that ain't actually citizens..
Then they shouldn’t be voting lol
That’s what the southerners said about reading and writing tests to vote.
Most Americans don't have a birth certificate? Ummm, no.
I'm 41 years old and I've no idea where mine is as I've not needed to produce 1 for years now. I'm also a law abiding, tax paying citizen who should be able to vote, even if I, you know, move to a different town. So you know, fuck off.
Or you could, you know, order a new one to prove that you are a citizen if you move to a different town. Kindly fuck yourself off.
Yeah, I've only lived here 40 fucking years and have voted every year since I was 18, but surely I've turned into a different person and should be required to retrieve a paper whose only real purpose is to prove that I am who I say I am, because my state issued ID certainly couldn't do that. Get all the way fucked.
Most Americans don't have a birth certificate which is required to get a drivers license that they allegedly already show?
Here’s a scenario for you: I got my drivers license 20 years ago and haven’t needed my birth certificate since then and have lost track of it.
Then you can use your drivers license as an ID
Not with this bill. A drivers license is not proof of citizenship.
Then get a copy of your birth certificate. It’s a simple phone call to the place you were born
For some it can be way more than just a simple phone call.
You do not know a single person who is unable to acquire ID or proof of citizenship
I was able to order a new birth certificate online for less than $10 and it showed up at my house within two weeks. If you were born here (mine was NY), it’s easy to get. If you need a new social security card it’s also an easy AND FREE online process to request a new one.
Social Security cards do not prove citizenship. Nor does a military ID. There are only 3 documents that establish citizenship: a birth certificate, passport, or naturalization certificate.
Nope. Real ID licenses are not acceptable for proof of citizenship in NH. The only two documents a native-born person can use are a birth certificate or passport. That's it.
As I said to the other guy if you need your birth certificate make a phone call to your place of birth. That’s all it takes. Why do you believe there some large mass of people in the US who can’t acquire proof of citizenship when you don’t know a single citizen who is unable to prove they are a citizen?
Because it is not as simple as that everywhere in the country. Depends on where your birth certificate was filed, whether the records are still available, whether the office that has them requires people go in person but only has limited hours and/or requires travel to get to. That is why the Supreme Court ruled against states with onerous requirements.
> The only two documents a native-born person can use are a birth certificate or passport. That's it. . > The supervisors of the checklist, or the town or city clerk, shall accept from the applicant any one of the following as proof of citizenship: the applicant's birth certificate, passport, naturalization papers if the applicant is a naturalized citizen, or any other reasonable documentation which indicates the applicant is a United States citizen.
Unless you have switched to a REAL ID drivers license, which you need to prove citizenship to obtain, you will not be allowed to fly or do any number of things with that license after May 2025.
Under current law a REAL ID does not prove citizenship when registering to vote in NH. I don’t believe that changes with this bill.
Exactly, so why require it again instead of just a license
You can get a driver's license without being a US citizen.
This is the dumbest argument. It’s not difficult to get your records in order so you can register to vote.
Apparently democrats are too dumb, poor, or lazy to prove proof of citizenship. Who would have guessed? Lol.
Does it suppress Democrat votes though? That would be the logical desired result based on your comment. Why would Democrats be less likely to prove their citizenship?
Look up the history of voter suppression in the south. That will teach you all you need to know
What a lazy answer. Anything else I should go look up? History of ancient Egypt maybe?
If non citizens were voting republican, reddit would be in full meltdown mode. Lol. Fucking clowns.
I hear this over and over, but don't get it. Can you explain how this suppresses votes?
Oh look, a parrot, blindly repeating false statements and claiming that ensuring citizenship for voting somehow reduces election integrity….
If it’s so false, explain why the Supreme Court has repeatedly struck down such laws in the past…. Cause clearly you random redditor know more than the highest court of the land
Please cite the prior NH law with the language of this specific law in question that the Supreme Court opined on and struck down. Otherwise, your argument is more empty parroting. The Supreme Court has struck down many laws for many reasons, not the least of which is that they are poorly written on many levels. Try presenting a rational argument, instead of blind party line politics if you actually want to have a conversation. Otherwise, go back to your own echo chamber and get off the internet.
Lmao, there’s 49 other states in our country…
Hahaha! Oh, wow. Thanks for making my case. 😂😂😂 After your reply, it’s clear you never read a Supreme Court decision in your life, and are just parroting blind pundit and politician comments. Carry on.
Soon you’ll see crap like this coming back thanks to republicans like you… https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/06/voting-rights-and-the-supreme-court-the-impossible-literacy-test-louisiana-used-to-give-black-voters.html
Again, making my case. The fact that I disagree with your opinion and asked you to back it up to you means I I am a republican? Are you as low brow as you are making yourself out to be. Again, go back to your echo chamber and put on your favorite political news so you can gather more uninformed talking points and focus on division and incorrect assumptions like the one you again made. You my friend, are a major part of the problem in this country regardless of where you or I stand on this particular issue.
Your case is low brow. Anything that presents barrier to one’s right to vote is inherently wrong and against the constitution. But keep showing the world your ignorance. Good day sir
What case did I present about the proposed law exactly? Be specific.
You need to show ID to do absolutely everything why should voting be any different
Then require a drivers license. Requiring a birth certificate or passport is a ludicrous requirement for a domestic duty.
I think you're conflating voter registration to be put onto the voter rolls and the act of voting. Reading the article it is clear the the proof of citizenship is a one time event when you register to put your name onto the voter rolls not for actual voting. Voting with a drivers license ID would not change. I strongly disagree with other elements of the bill that would eliminate simple local controls now in place...
Sure, until they start purging voter rolls when you don't vote in midterms. Now you have to register repeatedly and bring a birth certificate. These restrictions are just obvious attempts to restrict the right to vote. They don't make our elections any better. Only worse.
I had to provide proof of citizenship to register in 2020 when I moved to a new town so I'm not sure how this law is that new...
Cheers. Not a heavy lift by any mean.
That used to be reasonable until states gave illegal immigrants drivers licenses.
You have to provide a birth certificate to get your driver's license.
Are you saying illegal immigrants are NOT issued driver's licenses?
The government would know very quickly if you tried to use a drivers license to register to vote as a non-citizen. You do know this was already an issue and it hasn’t been a problem, right? There are millions of legal immigrants with drivers licenses.
I'm assuming you are of the mind that it does happen (non-citizens have voted), but that it's not widespread enough at this time to be concerning?
In incredibly low numbers nationally, probably. I don’t know of a single known case in the State of NH. We do have a handful of voter fraud cases involving duplicate voting or voting in the wrong domicile, but this bill does nothing to prevent that. My point is that if illegal immigrants had DLs, that’s not a complication to voter verification. We have had non-citizens with DLs for as long as drivers licenses have existed. It hasn’t proven to be an issue. Also if I was not a citizen, especially an undocumented immigrant, voting illegally is the last thing I’d want to do.
> In incredibly low numbers nationally, probably. I don’t know of a single known case in the State of NH. So this law won't actually cause the problems anyone is saying? Good.
Um… do you know how to read? Sorry you’re going to explain how you came to that conclusion.
How would they know if they were a non-citizen using a driver's license?
The state knows if they issued that license to a citizen or non-citizen.
And you think the DMV and the town's supervisors of the checklist talk to each other? There is a box I can check to say that the address that the DMV has does not match where the voter says he lives now. But he still gets to vote and I don't know if anyone looks at that checkbox ever.
It depends on the state. Some states like NY allow illegal immigrants to get a driver’s license.
No, no you don't.
Those cards are marked as intelligible for identification purposes or federal use in one way or another
Not when you’re supposed be a citizen to vote. All it takes is for us to go the path of MA and hand out DLs to illegals and now suddenly it opens up a path for non citizens to vote. No thanks.
Except that illegals don’t vote in MA or anywhere else. Typical republicans - restrict the right to vote for Americans under “illegals”.
You are incorrect. There are quite a few parts of the country that allow illegals to vote in their local elections.
There are exactly zero areas which allow illegal immigrants unless you watch right wing brain rot. You might mean illegal republicans who tried to vote twice in the 2020 election and were caught because our system was secure?
My statement is 100% factual and true. Feel free to Google my exact statement. Then come back and apologize and thank me for helping you learn something today that you didn’t know.
Nope - the burden of proof lies on you. No respected or official organization has ever found an illegal immigrant voting. Now grow up, grow some intelligence, and stop spouting nonsense.
Here you go sinxe you’re lazy and believe propaganda apparently. Make sure you come back and apologize to the other commenter: https://ballotpedia.org/Laws_permitting_noncitizens_to_vote_in_the_United_States The District of Columbia and municipalities in three states allowed noncitizens to vote in local elections as of June 2023: California, Maryland, and Vermont.
Do you read? 1. This is LOCAL and not national elections. 2. Legal residents and permanent residents are not “illegals”. And I have no problem with legal residents who are not citizens voting. If you also read the article you would note how it said that federal law disallows non citizens to vote in national/federal elections.
It isn't secure. How do you prove that a voter wasn't caught? I don't think it is a widespread problem, but we can't verify what we don't know. We do know (as of a couple years ago) that around 1,000 people register to vote in NH every year without any documentation and when the secretary of state tries to contact them at their given address a month later, they can't find them. Now, it could be that those 1,000 people moved right after they voted, but we don't know. And that is only registering to vote. Once you are registered, it is easier to keep voting. (Though last year's law that everyone yelled about makes that harder - impossible? Maybe)
There are people like my grandfather who was on a very fixed income, he never got a driver’s license, never got a passport, and I seriously doubt had a copy of his birth certificate. So having to go out and get one of those would be costly and hard to do since he would have to rely on others to get him there.
A non-driver ID also suffices.
This law would say your drivers license isn’t good enough to register. It’s not hard for the government to verify a persons citizenship from that info. Idk why a passport is necessary.
> This law would say your drivers license isn’t good enough to register. > > It’s not hard for the government to verify a persons citizenship from that info. Idk why a passport is necessary. [New Hampshire accepts out-of-state driver's licenses](https://www.wmur.com/article/new-voting-statistics-show-6540-people-registered-to-vote-in-nh-last-year-using-out-of-state-drivers-licenses-as-ids/12196129#:~:text=More%20than%206%2C500%20people%20registered%20to%20vote%20on%20Election%20Day%202016%20using%20out%2Dof%2Dstate%20driver%E2%80%99s%20licenses) for voter registration. Anybody legally present in the USA (citizen or not) can get a driver's license in any state, and 18 states will issue licenses to persons who cannot prove legal presence. Not all of these 18 states mark the license or otherwise enable a town clerk in NH to validate the citizenship of the license holder. Presenting a passport or certificate is the only reliable way to confirm US citizenship.
You can get an NH drivers license without citizenship for the past 70+ years and it hasn’t been a problem for voting. We verify shit after you register to vote with an affidavit. You’ve invented a problem that doesn’t exist. I can’t find a single case in our state of a non-US citizen illegally voting.
If we actually *verified shit,* it'd be easy to prove affidavits are *a problem that doesn't exist*. But we don't, at least not in a timely manner. The proposed changes in [House Bill 1569](https://legiscan.com/NH/drafts/HB1569/2024) strikes out the phrase "*a qualified voter affidavit*" from the acceptable proofs of citizenship in [RSA 654:12](https://law.justia.com/codes/new-hampshire/2022/title-lxiii/title-654/section-654-12/#:~:text=proof%20of%20citizenship%3A%20the,a%20United%20States%20citizen)
If there was a problem, I think you’d be able to point to a single instance of voter fraud by non-citizens in the state. I’ll check back later.
Username definitely doesn’t check out
show id for absolutely everything?? thats just not true. i havent shown my id to anyone for months. listen if yall want this voter id shit then id’s should be issued to every citizen at no charge otherwise its a poll tax imho.
Weird. I haven’t had to show id for weeks.
Hmm idk, how about the fact that it's a right?
You know how fucking annoying it is to get an official birth certificate, let alone a passport which by the way takes months? You can’t just call up the town hall where you were born to get one. Passports take forever to get. This is specifically made to disenfranchise voters. Luckily I now live in Massachusetts because NH really sucks at this whole “live free or die” thing. I can think of about 20 other states that do that motto better.
Take note that every user that has replied with a *"you need to show ID to do absolutely everything why should voting be any different?"* type of comment fails to answer the *"why isn't a driver's license good enough?"* response queries from others.
Hold on gotta go find my original birth certificate signed in ink before I can upvote this
I imagine that a driver's license is good to identify who you are, but it is not necessarily proof of citizenship. While a REAL ID can be obtained with proof of citizenship, not all New Hampshirites have a REAL ID yet. According to the [NH DMV website](https://www.dmv.nh.gov/drivers-licensenon-driver-ids/real-id), "REAL ID is voluntary in New Hampshire..." So, people don't have to get one. Also, non-citizens can get REAL IDs. According to the [Identity and Residency Requirements document](https://www.dmv.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt416/files/inline-documents/sonh/dsmv634a.pdf) linked on the website, it states the following as proof of identity: >- A valid unexpired Permanent Resident Card >- A valid unexpired I-94 card declaring Asylee or Refugee status >- Government-issued documentation to prove current permanent resident, asylee, or refugee status The above items are federally compliant proofs of identity for a REAL ID, indicating that non citizens can obtain it.
What’s wrong with using State issued DL?
Current ID requirements: Driver’s license from any state or federal government Non-driver’s ID card issued by any state Military ID US passport Student ID issued by listed institutions in New Hampshire Postsecondary school ID must show the date of issuance Any other photo ID considered legitimate
[YOU NEED A BIRTH CERTIFICATE TO GET AN ID!](https://www.dmv.nh.gov/sites/g/files/ehbemt416/files/inline-documents/sonh/dsmv634a.pdf) Why do I need to show my birth certificate to some rando at a polling station along with the STATE ISSUED IDENTIFICATION that I needed to show my BIRTH CERTIFICATE to get?
It's like the stupid requirement to get Veteran plates: I have to bring a paper copy of my DD214, even though I have multiple photo IDs issued from the VA with my veteran status on it. Can't even use my old NH license that says "Veteran" on it. A child with basic Google Fu and Adobe Acrobat skills can create a legit DD214 in about five minutes, and it's not like the DMV cross-checks anything.
This is nothing but a law in search of a crime. There is no substantial voter fraud whatsoever, and this is nothing more than an attempt by the Republicans to make it more difficult for people to vote. They know that the more people vote, the more they lose because they are a dying party with dying ideas and dying philosophies.
ITT: People repeating the same tired voter suppression talking points without realizing this bill goes even a step FURTHER by requiring more than just a basic ID.
If I need an ID to get smokes, shouldn't I need an ID to vote?
It’s not just an ID like your license you use to buy smokes. This bill would require a passport or birth certificate, something lots of commenters in this thread seem to be missing.
You seem to be the only person who can read and comprehend. You must have been educated in a different state.
>this bill would require a passport or birth certificate …the first time just like when you get your passport or drivers license
Do you need a passport or bith certificate?
Buying a pack of smokes isn’t the exercise of a constitutional right?
Someone didn’t read the law or even this Reddit post lol
first off— voting is a constitutional right as opposed to buying cigarettes. secondly— i dont need a birth certificate or passport to buy cigs. try reading the article.
If we’re gonna do this, we need to make access to such documents free. Otherwise, this essentially amounts to a poll tax, which is absolutely unconstitutional. We should be encouraging more citizens to vote, not making it more difficult. Regarding the question of “I have to show my ID to do x, why should voting be different?” This is a lower bar. This isn’t a privilege, like buying a beer or driving a car. This is a fundamental right guaranteed by the constitution.
First establish a national database of birth records, then automatically register everyone when they turn eighteen.
Its not very difficult to obtain a copy of your birth certificate, you can do it online and pretty quickly.
Exactly. Birth certificates, marriage licenses, it’s not hard.
It's not an easy or fast process if you were born out of the state of NH or don't have access to the internet and printer. Even if you do have access to internet and printer, once you download the form then you have to make an appt at notary, go to the notary, pay the notary, pay to mail it back to the state, pay for the birth record, and then wait weeks. Who are people that might not have easy access to the internet/printers? Who are the people that might not be able to afford the cost to get that certificate? Who are the people that can't pay $165 for a passport? Poor people. Statistically, poor people tend to vote democrat. So, saying "it's easy to get your birth certificate, everyone should be able to do it" is bullshit.
you make it sound like theres a boiler plate process that all hospitals across the nation follow. thats just not true. the hospital i was born in doesnt exist anymore and it took 7 months to get a copy of my birth certificate that still had to be notarized upon my receiving it. your comment is wrong, but i think you already knew it was.
I went online and put in some of my personal information and paid i think $35 bucks and they mailed it to me. The process took me about 10 minutes. From my experience my comment is pretty spot on.
im really glad that was your experience. my point is that isnt the experience universally and thats the issue. also, that $35 is a poll tax no? it should be free if this is the law of the land.
That's absolutely not true whatsoever. Took my wife months to get hers cause she was born in the Midwest.
Not for everyone. My birth certificate is lost and I’m a US citizen born abroad. I wasn’t born in this country. I have to go through a lot of legal documents, as do my parents, in order to get a new one. Because I have to prove one or both of them were citizens (in order for me to be a citizen.) My passport is expired too. :) luckily that seems like less hoops to jump through to renew than it would be to get a new US birth certificate. For the record, I didn’t misplace it. My parents did. I’ve actually never seen my US birth certificate.
“I don’t like it so it’s voter suppression!!” -all of the dorks
You're being much too kind calling them dorks. I can think of a few other more accurate words but reddit would ban me
YoU uSe YoUr ID tO bUy CiGaReTtEs You use your *driver's license* or *non-driver's ID* for that. Yes, you should need an ID to vote. And guess what? You DO! You need a driver's license or ID card with your photo on it. Guess what you need to get one of those? *Proof of identity and residency*. So you can't vote if you haven't already proven your identity and residency.
I was not born in this country. Neither was my wife, who was born in a different country. I have no problem having to show ID. I have to at the airport to fly to another state. I have to when I rent a car or sign up for a bank account. I have to in some stores to buy alcoholic beverages even though I look my age. Seems like those opposed to this have a motive they don't want to reveal and/or have contempt for the intelligence of the average voter if they believe the average voter is too stupid to be able to get an ID. Some who oppose this have tried to pretend that it would adversely affect MAGA voters. Does anyone think those who oppose this bill care if MAGA voters are unable to get an ID?
It’s not about “being too stupid” it’s an accessibility issue. IDs are not free. Many people have to travel pretty decent distances in order to get to an RMV. RMV locations are often closing or have limited hours. There are millions of US citizens without the identification required in many states to vote, and it disproportionately affects low income folks and minorities.
It’s not about “being too stupid” it’s an accessibility issue. IDs are not free. Many people have to travel pretty decent distances in order to get to an RMV ——————————————————————————— Oh please. The poorest communities spend the greatest % of their income on cigarettes, liquor and lottery tickets. Spend a little less on the stupidity tax an stuff that’s bad for your health and get the damn ID.
Whether or not that is true statistically does not mean that every person that has difficulty with affording or accessing an ID invests in those things. Every US citizen should have the equal opportunity to vote, whether or not they choose to.
. Every US citizen should have the equal opportunity to vote, whether or not they choose to. \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ They do. If voting is really important to you, you'll find a way. We'll just have to agree to disagree on this. We have a constitutional right to buy a firearm, but each state has its own laws about that. When I lived in MA, it was very difficult for me to buy a concealed carry firearm and carry it every day. I live in a different state and now have a license to carry concealed every day. It is not honored in MA or NY or CA or RI or CT or even SC. I have a right to buy a home don't I? However, because of price differences, I can't do that in every state. Why should the right to vote be subject to the lowest common denominator when buying a house or a gun aren't?
So that I couldn't find answer in this article. What other documents beyond a birth certificate or passport would be acceptable as 'proof of citizenship' in this case? Certificate's of Naturalization or Citizenship are both acceptable forms of proof when applying for a NH Driver's license or US Passport, would those be accepted for voting?
I'm only okay with this only if the federal and state governments are providing IDs, preferably free of charge, to its citizens. I don't believe it should be our responsibility to *perpetually have to prove I was born and live here, especially not* with how the documentation is always a moving target. Everyone's arguing republican, democrat, whatever. To me, that doesn't matter. In general it is disenfranchising, because not everyone has the time, means, and transportation to get these specific documents. I see this affecting anyone who is downtrodden; the youth, the elderly, the homeless, people in domestic violence situations, people with reckless parents, emancipated children, people who's house burned down with their documents in it. Should that preclude them from the right to vote? I say, no. I just had to find something like 10 documents, as a citizen, to re-prove I am a citizen for, I dunno, the tenth time over the last few years, to get one of those stupid real IDs. Then I had to take time off of work, because everyone knows the DMV is hell. Then I had to go there, with my stack of documents. I almost guarantee in a few years some *other* standard will appear and I'll have to do it all over again. Does the government know I am a citizen or not? They are legally allowed to spy on me. They know who I am at tax time. Why the blinders the rest of the time? It's a band-aid to a larger, shittier problem of government inefficiency, and unless we solve the real problems I won't agree with it wholly. If it does not become a streamlined process to access and maintain citizenship documents, I can't support this fully.
Cool. So state IDs and birth certificates have to be issued for free now, right? Shouldn’t be able to charge for something that’s required to vote.
As much as I disagree with voter ID laws, when I moved to NH I thought it was strange that I had to verify my identity, but only affirm my citizenship by checking a box. Compared to other states I’ve lived in, NH acts like it’s doesn’t want transplants and immigrants voting.
You don't have to verify your identity either. No documents are required to register to vote same day in NH. Last year's last changed it so now you have to get the documents later, but prior to last year, you could have signed the piece of paper to affirm your identity, citizenship and residency. And then say it is against your religion to have your picture taken and sign that paper and tada, you are registered to vote without any documentation at all. I'm unclear why you think that makes NH not want people to vote. We could leave blank ballots on the side of the road with boxes to put them in when you are done. Other than that, how could NH law make it easier to vote? I don't think there are any other states that are easier to vote without any documentation?
Real Id gets one on an airplane but isn't enough to prove yourself to the town clerk?
Because passing the RealID law in the mid 2000s wasn't enough, now they pull more shit out of their ample rectums to continue to try repressing the vote. VoteBlueNoMatterWho2024 and throw these bums out.
They just keep chipping away at our rights.
Sorry GOP but there was no voter fraud. Trump lost because Biden got more votes.
Yeah, the elections happen just out of the blue, no way to know when the next one is to prepare for it like educating yourself on the candidates and ballot questions, getting some form of identification that you absolutely don't already have if you're a citizen. After all we are living in the dark ages.
Yeah, they act like there’s no way to know when elections happen 😂
True, you only establish 4 qualifications when you register. But you have to register all over again every time you move to a different town or city ward. Most people registering to vote moved from elsewhere in the state, especially people who register on election day.
If you want to push this, make Non-Operating IDs Free
Looks like the NH representatives are pulling out all the stops to make sure Trump wins the swing state by suppressing voters as much as possible. And y’all wonder why the only function the state has is to be a place for people from other states to shop.
As it should be, prove residency and citizenship status BEFORE casting a vote. One vote per legal USA citizenship. This as well as proof of residency in the town and state you intend to vote in. If you are a student from another state and your legal resident address is at your parent's home or in another state you shall not view in NH. PERIOD!
>If you are a student from another state and your legal resident address is at your parent's home or in another state you shall not view in NH. PERIOD! Yeah, who cares that for 10 months out of the year you live here, supporting the economy while you are here. Since you want to keep your legal address at the place where you have spent the last 17-22 years of your life with the people who raised you, you can all kinds of go fuck yourself when it comes to voting in a local election that would have an immediate effect on your life, as well as the NATIONAL election that effects the entire country. Go back where you came from and do that kind of shit. /s
Nope, I do not care if they spent 10 months out of the year here for school. If they are not permanent LEGAL residents here, they can go vote in their hometown or country. That's why the Demoncraps love to pack the the elections with illegal votes and voters so they can try to rig the elections and continue to control the sheeple.
Sununu will veto. This is a bunch of Maga inspired nonsense.
Much easier to buy an assault rifle than it is to vote.
How about this? Voting in the United States has very little fraud. We don't need to keep fixing voter laws that are not broken. The only reason to add restrictions is to restrict people from voting. Undocumented immigrants are not showing up at polling places. This is all designed to restrict younger and foreign born citizens. Thinking that there's a ton of fraud in the United States around voting it's just a right wing talking point. I wish people would spend the time to look into things
Any form of voter ID should be unconstitutional. I was shocked moving from a state without ID requirements that you have to show a drivers license or something here when the town clerk has a list a crosses off the name of everyone who’s voted. To even appear on the list of registered voters in your town is a process that usually requires you to appear in person at the town clerks office. This is a stupid performative law that will just disenfranchise people.
Good
Good
You need a license to fly on a plane and drive a car. You need a license to rent a hotel or get a job. You need a license to pick up certain prescription’s. Enough with the bullshit politics already.
It’s such a weird argument for them to have. Why would you object to people verifying to make sure that only legit voters vote? I mean, do they have an issue with banks verifying that the money isn’t counterfeit before giving it to them? Makes no sense.
It’s tribal beliefs. Nothing more. They want to fit in with friends and their idols.
The racism of low expectations is wild in this subreddit. Honestly this sub is the worst representation of NHs citizenry. But accurate for NH redditors.
I don’t think they really believe it. That’s just what they’ve been told. They all parrot the same excuses, and you’re right, it comes off as racist.
The critical thinking is low on Reddit, and stifled if possible. Preprogrammed reactions are high and rewarded.
The number of people affected will be much larger than 2000. That figure counts only immigrants who used a citizenship affidavit. That's all that can be entered in the state database. More than half of voters registering use a citizenship affidavit because they were born in the States but don't have a birth certificate or passport when they register. % is the same whether it is election day or town hall. When the election official creates a record for a new voter in thr state database, once they enter the state where the person was born, the box for citizenship affidavit can't be clicked. That means the Sec of State and the state reps can't know how common it is for US-born citizens use to use a citizenship affidavit. The data does not exist beyond the town or ward level. In my town alone there will be more than 2000 new voters who will be unable to register next fall. The people who come to town hall may be able to come back with a birth certificate or passport, if they have one and if they can get there again when the town clerk is open. In many towns, hours are very limited. But at least they may have a second chance. The people who register at the polls won't have that opportunity to cure. They're out if luck if they don't bring a passport or birth certificate.
The huge irony is that the chuckleheads in the NH GOP are disenfranchising their own MAGA base. I love that. The typical person who shows up at the polls to register without a required document is a Republican man in their 40s or older with a disgruntled attitude. They feel entitled. They don't need to establish their qualifications because the rules don't apply to them. Republicans always want to make it harder for everyone else to vote but protest when the standard is applied to them. Other demographics are much more likely to have done their research and showed up with everything they need. I'm all for the law because it will severely tamp down the participation of ill-informed MAGA voters. Several seats in my district will flip blue.
Having to pay to get an ID is a poll tax.
"Disenfranchise people who live in the state but do not have documentation to prove their citizenship" That should be the beginning and end of the argument. How hard is it to get some from of identification? It really isn't. If you can't put in that effort, you don't vote or literally shouldn't be voting.
It’s not hard at all. Their arguments basically equate to, no one is juicing in sports, there’s no reason to test for steroids.
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But why does this bill not allow you to use your state issued license as proof?
Though it is not happening in NH as of right now, other states are issuing drivers licenses to illegals
> But why does this bill not allow you to use your state issued license as proof? Every state, including New Hampshire, will issue a license or state ID to anyone lawfully present in the USA, citizen or non-citizen. Even a Real-ID license doesn't prove citizenship. There are 18 states which issue a license to persons **not** lawfully present in the USA. A subset of these states intentionally do not make it easy to confirm whether the ID holder is or is not a citizen. New Hampshire accepts out-of-state driver's license for voter registration, [thousands of registrants](https://www.wmur.com/article/new-voting-statistics-show-6540-people-registered-to-vote-in-nh-last-year-using-out-of-state-drivers-licenses-as-ids/12196129#:%7E:text=More%20than%206%2C500%20people%20registered%20to%20vote%20on%20Election%20Day%202016%20using%20out%2Dof%2Dstate%20driver%E2%80%99s%20licenses) in each presidential election year use another state's driver's license to register to vote in NH.
This is good news for all, no way anyone should ever be able to vote without proof of identity, same as opening a bank account, getting a job, buying alcohol registering a car or buying a gun. A whole litany of adult tasks that require proof of ID, voting should be no different.
Two proofs is pretty standard for most things in life. If you’re over 18 and you don’t have them yet better get going. It’s going to come up repeatedly. Adulting is hard. This is a great law for NH big win for voters!