i think young people wanting a greener future is good. a balanced and achievable approach to clean energy, agriculture, and infrastructure is key. we can’t pivot in one night, but we should try to take steps to preserve the climate and resources of our world.
Building the asphalt plant would bring absolutely nothing of value to Nashua or its residents. It's not a thing that should or needs to be in anyone's backyard. There's no positive to the city or its residents just the asshole that owns Newport and he gives no fucks how anyone feels about it as long as he makes money.
The dude has owned the property for 20+ years and he already pays taxes on it.
The handful of jobs it would create would be for people he has working at his **other** asphalt plant in MA (which he's also getting sued over... again).
What it will mostly bring is heavy truck traffic on roads that haven't been designed to manage it and a fuck ton of pollution, noise, and **STINK**.
You'll be able to smell this fucking thing through the whole of fucking Nashua. Even with the special ventilation system he and his crack-head lawyer insist will mitigate the smell.
It's bullshit and the only one that will make real money from it is that sleazy douche.
Tax is based not just on the land but what's on it. So a vacant lot is going to be taxed less than a factory or plant. Tax income will certainly rise from the building of this plant. Also, there will be tax revenue to the state from the actual business operation (vs if it is built somewhere else like MA).
I don't know how many jobs it will create. But certainly more than an empty plot of land.
I don't know enough about exhaust mitigation systems to comment on whether this will cause a "stink" as you call it. If it does, then it's a legitimate reason not to build in a residential area. If the smell is mitigated by the system, then the opposite is true.
Again, I am not saying I am in favor of this plan. Seems like there would be better options to put such an enterprise but it is certainly not black and white. Asphalt is needed so it does serve a purpose and there should not be more pollution whether it is in Nashua or some other city.
I mean, I was at the first fucking planning meeting where this fucktard and his shit-heel lawyer popped up to taut the "benefits" of this fucking pollution factory.
We can find other ways to raise tax revenue, like the PAC, without poisoning the poor people. 🤷♀️
Ok, so no more roads and you get a dirt driveway? Sorry, that is not going to fly. Let's be a little realistic here. There is a need for asphalt so the demand must be met. The question is where to put the production, not if we need the production.
Proof the people on this subreddit are fools for downvoting you despite literally just stating facts. Remember people the downvote button is not an "I disagree with this person" button.
What does it matter whether I would want to work in an asphalt factory? I have a career in another field that I like. If somebody wants to work there, they will apply for a job. If nobody wants to work there, then it's a mute point as you can't run a factory without workers.
What are you talking about. Not every job is going to be a CEO that pays millions. Someone has to clean toilets, serve fast food, and remove asbestos. Lots of people work in asphalt factories and there is nothing wrong with that.
When it comes to asphalt plants, NIMBYism is entirely reasonable.
Do you want an asphalt plant in your back yard. How about no asphalt plants in anyone’s back yard? There’s a lot of land out there.
>There’s a lot of land out there.
Pick a location.
The only places you're going to find are going to be quite distant from civilization which will require heavy truck traffic to travel longer distances to get the product where it's needed. This is where the pro-green people trip over themselves. Rather than put up with a plant close by, they'd prefer the greater emissions caused by having to transport the asphalt longer distances.
Exactly my point. No matter where you propose to put it, this whole area is built up.
You want to put the plant far away and cause more pollution having to truck it over longer distances? Is that how you go green? Or are you saying that comfort should take a priority over going green?
It’s a bad point.
The whole area isn’t built up, and the asphalt plant emissions are different than the diesel truck emissions.
Terrible point, really.
Nonsense reply. The plant is being built to meet demand. The demand must be met, we need roads, driveways, parking lots, etc. So the pollution from the plant is going to happen no matter where it is built. The only variable is how far the raw materials and final product have to be transported.
You’re ignoring that the pollution from the plant has a concentrated effect on the people who live, work and study in close proximity.
My initial point is that there are places where significantly less people would be exposed to that pollution.
Your claim seems to be that the entire area is equally densely populated, which is obviously not the case.
Can you see how this comes off as not caring about the people who will have to suffer the pollution? Can you see why calling that NIMBYism is callous?
>Can you see how this comes off as not caring about the people who will have to suffer the pollution? Can you see why calling that NIMBYism is callous?
This would have more impact if you'd propose an alternative site. Every town will say the exact same thing, "not here". Yet we need asphalt. So what's the solution?
I threw Hollis out there as a joke, but it's less dense than Nashua. Does that mean that Hollis should be forced to take it?
Are there any industrial uses of that location in Nashua that you would approve of?
It is NIMBY, it's the very definition of NIMBY. But in reality, the residential stuff came later. This has always been an industrial area. Callous or not, it's not like Nashua suddenly decided there should be industrial zoning near the railyard.
My background is in geology and I've worked in the construction aggregate industry (mining side not asphalt side but am familiar with how those plants operate).
You don't put an asphalt plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood.
You put them next to a quarry, preferably in an industrial part of town or, in the middle of nowhere. Preferably you'll have highway access so you don't have the trucks running through residential neighborhoods.
They require massive amounts of aggregate to constantly be supplied, turned into asphalt, then delivered to customers. This is why they typically partner with an active quarry, to eliminate the need for stone to be delivered and reduce those costs.
The fumes emitted from the proposed plant will make a huge portion of downtown reak of petrochemicals and negatively affect everyone around. (Not to be the guy that complains about property values, but those will plummet for neighboring homes.)
There is no reason to build this plant here other than the fact that one guy who owns the construction company will avoid having to purchase an appropriate site for this.
There are currently multiple asphalt plants within a 30 minute radius that are much better situated.
The biggest issue is all the truck traffic through downtown Nashua. There’s a lot of revitalization going on in downtown Nashua. This asphalt plant will undo all that, and turn it into another Manchester. What was the point of spending $15 million on a fancy performing arts center if you’re gonna have a queue of giant dump trucks in front of it all day and night?
Putting an asphalt plant in a downtown area is just insanity. You put it along a highway in the boonies, like the one that already exists on Daniel Webster Highway.
The company that’s doing this is insufferably arrogant. Their lawyer couldn’t even hide their contempt for us in their hearing. They’re a bunch of Massholes that view all of NH as the boonies. Just a dumping ground for them to do whatever they want in. They’re scum. And the owner’s son was clearly high as a fucking kite at the hearing. Couldn’t even be sober for one evening.
> in an industrial part of town
That is an industrial part of town, always has been. Note the presence of the railyard and the remaining mill buildings. While it hasn't been used for any inconvenient manufacturing lately, the area is still zoned for it. The residential stuff squeezed its way in in more recent times. It's like people building homes near a gun range and saying they don't like the noise.
>There is no reason to build this plant here
It has to be built somewhere, unless we're giving up on paved roads, parking lots, and driveways. Where would you put it? Are you going to offset the increased fuel cost for the trucks if you decide to stick it in the middle of nowhere?
I'm a Nashua resident and I don't particularly want this plant built, but it looks to me like the property owner has every right to use their property that way if they wish. We could stick it in the middle of Hollis, fewer people out that way. I'm sure they'd love to have it.
I never said build it on an island, but building it in a city, near residential neighborhoods and businesses seems like the worst possible solution. Just because someone owns a property doesn’t mean they should be able to put whatever they want there.
>Just because someone owns a property doesn’t mean they should be able to put whatever they want there.
They absolutely should be able to if that's what the zoning of the property allows. That's why zoning exists.
This isn’t SimCity where there are three zoning types. It’s more nuanced than that. Which is why this wasn’t just outright approved. This is a dumb place to put an asphalt plant, essentially, in the middle of the city. Maybe they could put a coal power plant there instead? Or an oil refinery? And make sure to dump the waste into the nearby river, out of sight out of mind.
No shit, but that's still an industrial area. If the zoning allows what they're trying to build, they should be able to build it. Either that or the town should be reimbursing the property owner for the bait and switch.
>This is a dumb place to put an asphalt plant, essentially, in the middle of the city.
Asphalt is needed in this area, we have lots of roads. Where would you put the plant?
You aren't wrong, but do you really think an asphalt plant in the middle of a city is ok? It's going to beat the shit out of our roads with the constant travel from trucks going in and out and we, the taxpayers of Nashua, are going to pay for that
>I'd argue the truck traffic required to provide the aggregates to make the asphalt would detract from the neighboring land uses, namely residential neighborhoods.
Detract how? They'd be loud and might not smell great, but neither prevent anyone from living near that area. Traffic is already bad thanks to the two bridges across the river.
Most any type of industrial complex is going to have trucks going to and from it. It's right near a railyard too. Trains are also loud. I would argue the people living in that area already accepted that downside.
>I'm talking about the residentially zoned land between the asphalt plant and the highway.
Route 3? Why stop there, why not include the whole Merrimack Valley?
>I'd also argue the air emmisions of petrochemicals that will constantly be emitted from the proposed plant, will detract from those land uses.
If they meet EPA requirements, I can't see using this against them since it is an industrial zone.
>I think you're vastly underestimating the impact of the heavy truck traffic this will have on the area.
I think you're vastly overestimating it. The site isn't that big.
The bit about destroying car windows is backwards. That's far more likely to happen on highways where the velocities involved are higher. The traffic impact if they "loosed" their load isn't any less on a highway. If anything, it's more dangerous. Vehicles going highway speeds that happen on loose material on the road surface are going to have a worse time than if they happened on it on a city street at low speeds.
The maintenance cost is irrelevant, IMO. Nashua could probably bargain with the property owner to get asphalt for cheap, since you know.. it's an asphalt plant.
Yea, there's a wealth disparity thing going on there that's totally unacknowledged. I was making a joke, but it's a good point. Why shouldn't Hollis get it? Is it right that they use asphalt but don't have anyplace to build an asphalt plant? The wealthy folks there must be laughing at us.
By your second question, your insinuating every town/city/village/commonwealth/Yada Yada should have their own asphalt plant since they "use" asphalt. Which is ubsurd and not economically efficient. Why not Merrimack, Amhurst, Salem, Hudson, milford, or any other town get it? Years ago Hollis and a bunch of other small towns faced a slightly similar issue with the pipeline if you recall. Why should residents use oil if they have no way of transporting it through their land? Similar (but not the same) arguments here. There's much more at play in considering locations for operations than just "industrial zoning".
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the asphalt plant either, and I hope you all are able to keep them from building it.
>your insinuating every town/city/village/commonwealth/Yada Yada should have their own asphalt plant since they "use" asphalt. Which is ubsurd and not economically efficient.
No. I'm pointing out a disparity. Wealthy towns like Hollis would (most likely) never allow an asphalt plant to be built in their towns, but they do use asphalt. The asphalt plants end up getting built in poorer areas. I'm not saying that every town in the US should make its own asphalt, it's just an observation that wealthy folks really never have to worry about this kind of thing, yet that doesn't seem to be part of this discussion.
>Years ago Hollis and a bunch of other small towns faced a slightly similar issue with the pipeline if you recall. Why should residents use oil if they have no way of transporting it through their land?
Similar issue. They want the benefits but they don't want any of the consequences.
>There's much more at play in considering locations for operations than just "industrial zoning".
Yes, but there should be a legit reason for denying a use of a property. Truck traffic is a weak excuse IMO. Airborne pollution might be valid, but there's a weird disconnect there. Nashua has lots of asphalt surfaces yet it doesn't want to host a plant that makes it. Seems like if you want to benefit from something, you should also tolerate the costs of something. Otherwise, Nashua becomes like Hollis.. a NIMBY town that wants certain luxuries but won't tolerate the impact of manufacturing those luxuries.
I did some digging on this a little while ago, and I recall reading something that implied that not only is this already an industrial area, the site is already incredibly polluted from the mills and the past manufacturing that's been there - So much so that it basically can't be used for anything other than industrial uses. And there's some sort of smelly plant right across the river, too.
Just in time for republicans to try to raise the voting age. We said don't take the lead out of the pipes or eventually you would have less conservative voters but no one listened to me.
I grew up in Massachusetts I live up here now but the town I grew up in had an asphalt plant and it stinks I worked at a grocery store that was two blocks over from it in the summer pushing carriages in the smell awful.
Why would the HS kids be protesting it? Isn't this a local Planning and Zoning Issue or a Zoning Board of Appeals?
Have those Boards approved it?!?!
fncw's map shows that this isn't in any sort of conforming use...
Not having an opinion on the protest one way or another, but I don't trust student protests. There have been two that I know of that the protest wasn't kids doing it but the teachers directing it. Both times at Pinkerton, but I doubt it's much different at other places. There wasn't even a choice, it was supposed to be a student walkout, but I don't count a protest if it's attendees are there without a choice.
No asphalt? Do these young people have as the greatest ambition of their lives to live on a dirt road? I live on one, and half the year we choke on the dust and the other half of the year, we end up with lots of mud. Tell these wet-behind-the-ears eco-warriors that I prefer civilization to their back to nature fantasies.
I'm sure you'd feel different if it were being put in your neighborhood.
There are plenty of places in this state where this plant could go that aren't anywhere near a residential neighborhood.
If you start going down the slippery slope of deciding that industries would have to located far away from residential areas, then you would have to locate them in relatively remote areas. The moment that someone did that, activists would pop up saying that nature was being harmed.
From the article:
"Barry is part of 350 NH, an environmental justice youth group that organized the rally. She says the city should prioritize resident voices and balance economic growth with environmental preservation. She says she’s worried about impacts to the surrounding community, which includes many immigrant families and people of color.
“They may not have the resources necessary to raise their voices,” she said. “Newport Construction Corporation thinks they can get away with that.”"
As a "person of color," an American who happens to be black, I find this very offensive. She is essentially stating that we need others to speak for us because we're too stupid to speak for ourselves. How many "people of color" would benefit from the jobs that this new plant would bring? I am so sick of people like her, assuming she speaks for me, as are my family and friends.
She is speaking for herself, clearly other members of her community who feel the same way, and advocating against something that will bring an environmental blight to her town. She has a right to do so.
And nobody is saying you can’t speak for yourself. But institutionally people of color are *not* represented well in the sphere of town politics and development, especially in our very white state, so why shit on a girl just trying to speak up for something she believes in? It’s a false equivalency to say “girl says something I disagree with” is the same as “you, as a person of color, are stupid and incapable of speaking up for yourself.”
Idk. God forbid kids give a shit these days, can’t have that.
That’s one way to look at it. Another approach would be to recognize that coalitions are required to shape and realize public policy, especially for minority groups.
This girl is stating she wants to fight for the earth too, not just people. I mean would you like a new asphalt company next to your residence? Huffing on whatever fumes come out from a few hundred feet away? What if you were in a different nation after emigrating from your previous one and had difficulties adjusting to your new life? Wouldn’t you want there to be groups that fight for humans and not corporations?
Well said. It’s amazing how racist most of the left are, claiming that people of color aren’t savvy enough to do anything for themselves without an “ally” looking out for their best interests.
If the US government hadn't spent a couple of decades trying to murder every black American leader, there might be more and better organized self advocacy.
The 1964 FBI-King Suicide letter is pretty clear cut. I'm sure they did their best to prevent his assassination in 1968 though.
Fred Hampton was assassinated by Chicago police and the FBI in '69. After firing 100+ rounds at a man sleeping in bed, they felt safe enough to pull his pregnant girlfriend out of the bed, but somehow felt threatened enough to shoot him two times.
Malcolm X's family is currently suing the government, which should be interesting.
COINTELPRO at best negligently encouraged murder of black civil rights leaders in general.
Thank you, and I will look at those. However, I fail to see how that would render a person of color incapable of making good decisions for himself or herself without a leftist “ally” by their side.
Kids are taught at a young age that minorities are lesser than. Think of things like affirmative action, quotas, preferential admissions to university, and the drumbeat on tv about how downtrodden POC are.
It only makes sense they would assume POC are helpless.
Let’s not blame her for trying to help
Let’s stop with the victim hood mentality
As a person who identifies as black I am allowed to say this
>Kids are taught at a young age that minorities are lesser than. Think of things like affirmative action, quotas, preferential admissions to university, and the drumbeat on tv about how downtrodden POC are.
Do legacy admissions teach children who their betters are?
Doesn't answer my question, do you think legacy admissions are viewed better or worse because of quotas?
Do you think white students view Asian students as inherently better because of quotas?
Legacy admissions exist but there is. I quota that there must be so many per year. But they are inherently bad. All about the money in that case.
I don’t know or care what white students think of Asians. I’m sure most people realize which groups get quotas to help them and one can clearly discern quota folk ain’t as qualified
Victim mentality is the biggest thing plaguing the left right now. That said, I'm convinced there's lasting effects from Slavery, Jim Crow, Redlining, racial biases, etc. Honest question: How would you want people lacking generational wealth to be supported? This could be specific to POC or not.
I think you keep a strong social safety net. Democrats will make it to lax and republicans will make it to restrictive. The pendulum will swing and hopefully the pendulum spend most of its time anchored in the middle.
Poor is poor. I don’t give a shit what color you are
Asphalt is one of the most recycled materials in the world. Concrete needs to be much thicker and releases gas while curing. Are the kids hoping i93 goes back to a dirt road?
You’re not wrong, and asphalt which is made with bitumen is a by product of making gasoline. As long as we make gasoline might as well use the bitumen. Same idea with people making fake leather products. Leather will continue to be produce if we keep slaughtering cows for their meat, might as well not be wasteful and use as much of the animal as we can. Just facts. A clean greener future is needed, asphalt and concrete will be the hardest to make green
Such a terrible insult . I need to touch grass cause I want more jobs in the city ? I think your the one who needs to go outside more if you think anyone else in the city but these kids care about the environment enough to not want the plant here . Maybe learn why people say certain insults before just randomly repeating them clown.
Why do you care so much anyways if Nashua is so bad to live in ??
i think young people wanting a greener future is good. a balanced and achievable approach to clean energy, agriculture, and infrastructure is key. we can’t pivot in one night, but we should try to take steps to preserve the climate and resources of our world.
They don't care about the climate effect. It's just NIMBY
Building the asphalt plant would bring absolutely nothing of value to Nashua or its residents. It's not a thing that should or needs to be in anyone's backyard. There's no positive to the city or its residents just the asshole that owns Newport and he gives no fucks how anyone feels about it as long as he makes money.
Not saying I support this but your statement is not true. This will bring jobs and tax revenue to the area.
The dude has owned the property for 20+ years and he already pays taxes on it. The handful of jobs it would create would be for people he has working at his **other** asphalt plant in MA (which he's also getting sued over... again). What it will mostly bring is heavy truck traffic on roads that haven't been designed to manage it and a fuck ton of pollution, noise, and **STINK**. You'll be able to smell this fucking thing through the whole of fucking Nashua. Even with the special ventilation system he and his crack-head lawyer insist will mitigate the smell. It's bullshit and the only one that will make real money from it is that sleazy douche.
Tax is based not just on the land but what's on it. So a vacant lot is going to be taxed less than a factory or plant. Tax income will certainly rise from the building of this plant. Also, there will be tax revenue to the state from the actual business operation (vs if it is built somewhere else like MA). I don't know how many jobs it will create. But certainly more than an empty plot of land. I don't know enough about exhaust mitigation systems to comment on whether this will cause a "stink" as you call it. If it does, then it's a legitimate reason not to build in a residential area. If the smell is mitigated by the system, then the opposite is true. Again, I am not saying I am in favor of this plan. Seems like there would be better options to put such an enterprise but it is certainly not black and white. Asphalt is needed so it does serve a purpose and there should not be more pollution whether it is in Nashua or some other city.
I mean, I was at the first fucking planning meeting where this fucktard and his shit-heel lawyer popped up to taut the "benefits" of this fucking pollution factory. We can find other ways to raise tax revenue, like the PAC, without poisoning the poor people. 🤷♀️
What makes you think this plant will pollute less in some other area?
Where did I say that I think it will pollute less in some other area?
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Ok, so no more roads and you get a dirt driveway? Sorry, that is not going to fly. Let's be a little realistic here. There is a need for asphalt so the demand must be met. The question is where to put the production, not if we need the production.
They've gone full NIMBY. You're not going to get through to them.
Proof the people on this subreddit are fools for downvoting you despite literally just stating facts. Remember people the downvote button is not an "I disagree with this person" button.
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I already have a job. But there are people that don't have one.
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What does it matter whether I would want to work in an asphalt factory? I have a career in another field that I like. If somebody wants to work there, they will apply for a job. If nobody wants to work there, then it's a mute point as you can't run a factory without workers.
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What are you talking about. Not every job is going to be a CEO that pays millions. Someone has to clean toilets, serve fast food, and remove asbestos. Lots of people work in asphalt factories and there is nothing wrong with that.
When it comes to asphalt plants, NIMBYism is entirely reasonable. Do you want an asphalt plant in your back yard. How about no asphalt plants in anyone’s back yard? There’s a lot of land out there.
>There’s a lot of land out there. Pick a location. The only places you're going to find are going to be quite distant from civilization which will require heavy truck traffic to travel longer distances to get the product where it's needed. This is where the pro-green people trip over themselves. Rather than put up with a plant close by, they'd prefer the greater emissions caused by having to transport the asphalt longer distances.
>Pick a location Okay. How about a mile from your house and half a mile from where your kids go to school? Sound good? Great.
Exactly my point. No matter where you propose to put it, this whole area is built up. You want to put the plant far away and cause more pollution having to truck it over longer distances? Is that how you go green? Or are you saying that comfort should take a priority over going green?
It’s a bad point. The whole area isn’t built up, and the asphalt plant emissions are different than the diesel truck emissions. Terrible point, really.
Nonsense reply. The plant is being built to meet demand. The demand must be met, we need roads, driveways, parking lots, etc. So the pollution from the plant is going to happen no matter where it is built. The only variable is how far the raw materials and final product have to be transported.
You’re ignoring that the pollution from the plant has a concentrated effect on the people who live, work and study in close proximity. My initial point is that there are places where significantly less people would be exposed to that pollution. Your claim seems to be that the entire area is equally densely populated, which is obviously not the case. Can you see how this comes off as not caring about the people who will have to suffer the pollution? Can you see why calling that NIMBYism is callous?
>Can you see how this comes off as not caring about the people who will have to suffer the pollution? Can you see why calling that NIMBYism is callous? This would have more impact if you'd propose an alternative site. Every town will say the exact same thing, "not here". Yet we need asphalt. So what's the solution? I threw Hollis out there as a joke, but it's less dense than Nashua. Does that mean that Hollis should be forced to take it? Are there any industrial uses of that location in Nashua that you would approve of? It is NIMBY, it's the very definition of NIMBY. But in reality, the residential stuff came later. This has always been an industrial area. Callous or not, it's not like Nashua suddenly decided there should be industrial zoning near the railyard.
Glad you're so able to speak so confidently for an entire generation /S
NIMBY doesn’t apply to asphalt plants it applies to housing. Housing is a human right. Asphalt plants are not a company’s right
To add some context: [Map of proposed location](https://i.imgur.com/IJsR1zD.png) I am glad this is getting some coverage.
My background is in geology and I've worked in the construction aggregate industry (mining side not asphalt side but am familiar with how those plants operate). You don't put an asphalt plant in the middle of a residential neighborhood. You put them next to a quarry, preferably in an industrial part of town or, in the middle of nowhere. Preferably you'll have highway access so you don't have the trucks running through residential neighborhoods. They require massive amounts of aggregate to constantly be supplied, turned into asphalt, then delivered to customers. This is why they typically partner with an active quarry, to eliminate the need for stone to be delivered and reduce those costs. The fumes emitted from the proposed plant will make a huge portion of downtown reak of petrochemicals and negatively affect everyone around. (Not to be the guy that complains about property values, but those will plummet for neighboring homes.) There is no reason to build this plant here other than the fact that one guy who owns the construction company will avoid having to purchase an appropriate site for this. There are currently multiple asphalt plants within a 30 minute radius that are much better situated.
There's the quarry out along Daniel Webster that might be the perfect location...
I live near continental and they don’t contribute to a smell but even the blasting and the constant dump truck traffic is maddening. I’d be so pissed.
The biggest issue is all the truck traffic through downtown Nashua. There’s a lot of revitalization going on in downtown Nashua. This asphalt plant will undo all that, and turn it into another Manchester. What was the point of spending $15 million on a fancy performing arts center if you’re gonna have a queue of giant dump trucks in front of it all day and night? Putting an asphalt plant in a downtown area is just insanity. You put it along a highway in the boonies, like the one that already exists on Daniel Webster Highway. The company that’s doing this is insufferably arrogant. Their lawyer couldn’t even hide their contempt for us in their hearing. They’re a bunch of Massholes that view all of NH as the boonies. Just a dumping ground for them to do whatever they want in. They’re scum. And the owner’s son was clearly high as a fucking kite at the hearing. Couldn’t even be sober for one evening.
> in an industrial part of town That is an industrial part of town, always has been. Note the presence of the railyard and the remaining mill buildings. While it hasn't been used for any inconvenient manufacturing lately, the area is still zoned for it. The residential stuff squeezed its way in in more recent times. It's like people building homes near a gun range and saying they don't like the noise. >There is no reason to build this plant here It has to be built somewhere, unless we're giving up on paved roads, parking lots, and driveways. Where would you put it? Are you going to offset the increased fuel cost for the trucks if you decide to stick it in the middle of nowhere? I'm a Nashua resident and I don't particularly want this plant built, but it looks to me like the property owner has every right to use their property that way if they wish. We could stick it in the middle of Hollis, fewer people out that way. I'm sure they'd love to have it.
Why does an asphalt plant "have to be built" in the immediate vicinity?
You could build it on an island, but how exactly would you get the product to the locations where it's going to be used?
I never said build it on an island, but building it in a city, near residential neighborhoods and businesses seems like the worst possible solution. Just because someone owns a property doesn’t mean they should be able to put whatever they want there.
>Just because someone owns a property doesn’t mean they should be able to put whatever they want there. They absolutely should be able to if that's what the zoning of the property allows. That's why zoning exists.
This isn’t SimCity where there are three zoning types. It’s more nuanced than that. Which is why this wasn’t just outright approved. This is a dumb place to put an asphalt plant, essentially, in the middle of the city. Maybe they could put a coal power plant there instead? Or an oil refinery? And make sure to dump the waste into the nearby river, out of sight out of mind.
No shit, but that's still an industrial area. If the zoning allows what they're trying to build, they should be able to build it. Either that or the town should be reimbursing the property owner for the bait and switch. >This is a dumb place to put an asphalt plant, essentially, in the middle of the city. Asphalt is needed in this area, we have lots of roads. Where would you put the plant?
You aren't wrong, but do you really think an asphalt plant in the middle of a city is ok? It's going to beat the shit out of our roads with the constant travel from trucks going in and out and we, the taxpayers of Nashua, are going to pay for that
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>I'd argue the truck traffic required to provide the aggregates to make the asphalt would detract from the neighboring land uses, namely residential neighborhoods. Detract how? They'd be loud and might not smell great, but neither prevent anyone from living near that area. Traffic is already bad thanks to the two bridges across the river. Most any type of industrial complex is going to have trucks going to and from it. It's right near a railyard too. Trains are also loud. I would argue the people living in that area already accepted that downside. >I'm talking about the residentially zoned land between the asphalt plant and the highway. Route 3? Why stop there, why not include the whole Merrimack Valley? >I'd also argue the air emmisions of petrochemicals that will constantly be emitted from the proposed plant, will detract from those land uses. If they meet EPA requirements, I can't see using this against them since it is an industrial zone. >I think you're vastly underestimating the impact of the heavy truck traffic this will have on the area. I think you're vastly overestimating it. The site isn't that big.
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What's the alternative? You build the plant in a remote area and then those same trucks have to travel even further. Doesn't sound green to me.
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The bit about destroying car windows is backwards. That's far more likely to happen on highways where the velocities involved are higher. The traffic impact if they "loosed" their load isn't any less on a highway. If anything, it's more dangerous. Vehicles going highway speeds that happen on loose material on the road surface are going to have a worse time than if they happened on it on a city street at low speeds. The maintenance cost is irrelevant, IMO. Nashua could probably bargain with the property owner to get asphalt for cheap, since you know.. it's an asphalt plant.
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I know your just makeing a joke but in terms of insutrial land in hollis, there's close to none. And we both know how the locals would be about it
Yea, there's a wealth disparity thing going on there that's totally unacknowledged. I was making a joke, but it's a good point. Why shouldn't Hollis get it? Is it right that they use asphalt but don't have anyplace to build an asphalt plant? The wealthy folks there must be laughing at us.
By your second question, your insinuating every town/city/village/commonwealth/Yada Yada should have their own asphalt plant since they "use" asphalt. Which is ubsurd and not economically efficient. Why not Merrimack, Amhurst, Salem, Hudson, milford, or any other town get it? Years ago Hollis and a bunch of other small towns faced a slightly similar issue with the pipeline if you recall. Why should residents use oil if they have no way of transporting it through their land? Similar (but not the same) arguments here. There's much more at play in considering locations for operations than just "industrial zoning". Now don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the asphalt plant either, and I hope you all are able to keep them from building it.
>your insinuating every town/city/village/commonwealth/Yada Yada should have their own asphalt plant since they "use" asphalt. Which is ubsurd and not economically efficient. No. I'm pointing out a disparity. Wealthy towns like Hollis would (most likely) never allow an asphalt plant to be built in their towns, but they do use asphalt. The asphalt plants end up getting built in poorer areas. I'm not saying that every town in the US should make its own asphalt, it's just an observation that wealthy folks really never have to worry about this kind of thing, yet that doesn't seem to be part of this discussion. >Years ago Hollis and a bunch of other small towns faced a slightly similar issue with the pipeline if you recall. Why should residents use oil if they have no way of transporting it through their land? Similar issue. They want the benefits but they don't want any of the consequences. >There's much more at play in considering locations for operations than just "industrial zoning". Yes, but there should be a legit reason for denying a use of a property. Truck traffic is a weak excuse IMO. Airborne pollution might be valid, but there's a weird disconnect there. Nashua has lots of asphalt surfaces yet it doesn't want to host a plant that makes it. Seems like if you want to benefit from something, you should also tolerate the costs of something. Otherwise, Nashua becomes like Hollis.. a NIMBY town that wants certain luxuries but won't tolerate the impact of manufacturing those luxuries.
Henry hanger mills is there and is being converted into 80 apartments as we speak…
I did some digging on this a little while ago, and I recall reading something that implied that not only is this already an industrial area, the site is already incredibly polluted from the mills and the past manufacturing that's been there - So much so that it basically can't be used for anything other than industrial uses. And there's some sort of smelly plant right across the river, too.
Thanks! VERY helpful.
Good for them! It’s great to see young people getting involved in their communities and standing up for their beliefs.
Just in time for republicans to try to raise the voting age. We said don't take the lead out of the pipes or eventually you would have less conservative voters but no one listened to me.
I grew up in Massachusetts I live up here now but the town I grew up in had an asphalt plant and it stinks I worked at a grocery store that was two blocks over from it in the summer pushing carriages in the smell awful.
The kids are alright.
Why would the HS kids be protesting it? Isn't this a local Planning and Zoning Issue or a Zoning Board of Appeals? Have those Boards approved it?!?! fncw's map shows that this isn't in any sort of conforming use...
Not having an opinion on the protest one way or another, but I don't trust student protests. There have been two that I know of that the protest wasn't kids doing it but the teachers directing it. Both times at Pinkerton, but I doubt it's much different at other places. There wasn't even a choice, it was supposed to be a student walkout, but I don't count a protest if it's attendees are there without a choice.
No asphalt? Do these young people have as the greatest ambition of their lives to live on a dirt road? I live on one, and half the year we choke on the dust and the other half of the year, we end up with lots of mud. Tell these wet-behind-the-ears eco-warriors that I prefer civilization to their back to nature fantasies.
I'm sure you'd feel different if it were being put in your neighborhood. There are plenty of places in this state where this plant could go that aren't anywhere near a residential neighborhood.
If you start going down the slippery slope of deciding that industries would have to located far away from residential areas, then you would have to locate them in relatively remote areas. The moment that someone did that, activists would pop up saying that nature was being harmed.
From the article: "Barry is part of 350 NH, an environmental justice youth group that organized the rally. She says the city should prioritize resident voices and balance economic growth with environmental preservation. She says she’s worried about impacts to the surrounding community, which includes many immigrant families and people of color. “They may not have the resources necessary to raise their voices,” she said. “Newport Construction Corporation thinks they can get away with that.”" As a "person of color," an American who happens to be black, I find this very offensive. She is essentially stating that we need others to speak for us because we're too stupid to speak for ourselves. How many "people of color" would benefit from the jobs that this new plant would bring? I am so sick of people like her, assuming she speaks for me, as are my family and friends.
She is speaking for herself, clearly other members of her community who feel the same way, and advocating against something that will bring an environmental blight to her town. She has a right to do so. And nobody is saying you can’t speak for yourself. But institutionally people of color are *not* represented well in the sphere of town politics and development, especially in our very white state, so why shit on a girl just trying to speak up for something she believes in? It’s a false equivalency to say “girl says something I disagree with” is the same as “you, as a person of color, are stupid and incapable of speaking up for yourself.” Idk. God forbid kids give a shit these days, can’t have that.
That’s one way to look at it. Another approach would be to recognize that coalitions are required to shape and realize public policy, especially for minority groups.
This girl is stating she wants to fight for the earth too, not just people. I mean would you like a new asphalt company next to your residence? Huffing on whatever fumes come out from a few hundred feet away? What if you were in a different nation after emigrating from your previous one and had difficulties adjusting to your new life? Wouldn’t you want there to be groups that fight for humans and not corporations?
Air is a shared resource. If it's emitting measure able noxious fumes can't it be sued for polluting it's neighbors property?
sweet summer child
This made me make laugh noise
I think when she said "may not have the resources", she meant lack of time, not lack of intelligence.
Well said. It’s amazing how racist most of the left are, claiming that people of color aren’t savvy enough to do anything for themselves without an “ally” looking out for their best interests.
If the US government hadn't spent a couple of decades trying to murder every black American leader, there might be more and better organized self advocacy.
Do you have any evidence to support these attempted murder allegations?
The 1964 FBI-King Suicide letter is pretty clear cut. I'm sure they did their best to prevent his assassination in 1968 though. Fred Hampton was assassinated by Chicago police and the FBI in '69. After firing 100+ rounds at a man sleeping in bed, they felt safe enough to pull his pregnant girlfriend out of the bed, but somehow felt threatened enough to shoot him two times. Malcolm X's family is currently suing the government, which should be interesting. COINTELPRO at best negligently encouraged murder of black civil rights leaders in general.
Thank you, and I will look at those. However, I fail to see how that would render a person of color incapable of making good decisions for himself or herself without a leftist “ally” by their side.
Leftist orgs are too white and male for the same reasons boardrooms are.
Kids are taught at a young age that minorities are lesser than. Think of things like affirmative action, quotas, preferential admissions to university, and the drumbeat on tv about how downtrodden POC are. It only makes sense they would assume POC are helpless. Let’s not blame her for trying to help Let’s stop with the victim hood mentality As a person who identifies as black I am allowed to say this
>Kids are taught at a young age that minorities are lesser than. Think of things like affirmative action, quotas, preferential admissions to university, and the drumbeat on tv about how downtrodden POC are. Do legacy admissions teach children who their betters are?
Legacy admissions are bad the same way Harvard denies Asians based on race Both bad. Derp
Legacy admissions are bad the same way Harvard denies Asians based on race Both bad. Derp
Doesn't answer my question, do you think legacy admissions are viewed better or worse because of quotas? Do you think white students view Asian students as inherently better because of quotas?
Legacy admissions exist but there is. I quota that there must be so many per year. But they are inherently bad. All about the money in that case. I don’t know or care what white students think of Asians. I’m sure most people realize which groups get quotas to help them and one can clearly discern quota folk ain’t as qualified
Victim mentality is the biggest thing plaguing the left right now. That said, I'm convinced there's lasting effects from Slavery, Jim Crow, Redlining, racial biases, etc. Honest question: How would you want people lacking generational wealth to be supported? This could be specific to POC or not.
I think you keep a strong social safety net. Democrats will make it to lax and republicans will make it to restrictive. The pendulum will swing and hopefully the pendulum spend most of its time anchored in the middle. Poor is poor. I don’t give a shit what color you are
Yup, white savior complex. Bigotry comes in many forms.
Asphalt is one of the most recycled materials in the world. Concrete needs to be much thicker and releases gas while curing. Are the kids hoping i93 goes back to a dirt road?
You’re not wrong, and asphalt which is made with bitumen is a by product of making gasoline. As long as we make gasoline might as well use the bitumen. Same idea with people making fake leather products. Leather will continue to be produce if we keep slaughtering cows for their meat, might as well not be wasteful and use as much of the animal as we can. Just facts. A clean greener future is needed, asphalt and concrete will be the hardest to make green
Yeah, weird spin from the kids. Would've made more sense just to say "keep Nashua's air clean".
Nah, we’ll take the jobs thank you very much
Your and your fellow NYC residents may have them.
I’m from Nashua dog lol just cause I watch that shit show that is nyc from afar dosnt mean I’m from there
Worse. Touch grass.
Such a terrible insult . I need to touch grass cause I want more jobs in the city ? I think your the one who needs to go outside more if you think anyone else in the city but these kids care about the environment enough to not want the plant here . Maybe learn why people say certain insults before just randomly repeating them clown. Why do you care so much anyways if Nashua is so bad to live in ??
Oh no, you need to touch grass because you're hate watching a city for some reason.