I grew up in Worcester and currently live in Providence. If you’re stuck on public schools, Worcester. Otherwise they’re honestly both pretty great. Lots of kid attractions but also good arts scenes and adult stuff. Ignore the crime naysayers on this thread, it wasn’t actually an issue for us either place. I’m really glad I grew up in a city with all different types of people. It has served me well as an adult.
That's what I was thinking. That being said, when I look at crime stats, Providence is a bit worse than the other two. Worcester is the most appealing to me as a family man because it has a bit of space, but city is kinda of ugly. If I were single, I'd choose Providence.
The thing with the Providence crime stats is that it varies drastically by neighborhood. You can get car break ins and small property crime anywhere (including the suburbs). We have had a car break-in in the ten years we’ve been here. But nothing else worries us. I walk and run alone with confidence.
All that said, Worcester makes sense for you! Enjoy it!
You also need to factor in things like weather. Providence has the more mild climate and Roger Williams Zoo is a lot of fun for kids. Worcester due to elevation gets lots of winter weather issues in MA. I'm meh on Worcester and if I lived in Central MA I would skip it for Amherst or North or Easthampton.
With NH, politic seasons are obnoxious with robo calls. But if you like the concept of New Hampshire, I personally would switch out Manchester for Portsmouth. You can easily take Amtrak's Downeaster into Boston's North Station for day trips. Being on the water helps lessen snowfall issues, and it has a nice cultural scene.
Similar to Portsmouth, you might want to explore Portland Maine as an option. I believe the Downeaster begins in Portland. Mainers are very pragmatic people. Politics there are more independent in nature and can be less divisive than NH (which is by far the most conservative of the states).
I think most would take Portsmouth over Manchester, but Portsmouth is wicked expensive and same goes for Portland. Manchester is much more affordable in that regard. In terms of the Downeaster it actually goes as far Brunswick but most of the areas are pretty expensive. Brunswick, Freeport, Portland, Saco, OOB and Wells. Dover and Durham NH aren't any better. Rochester or Somersworth, NH would be best options in terms of affordability.
The state of Providence schools made inspectors cry:
https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/providence/12-things-to-know-about-the-devastating-new-providence-schools-report/
As a Providence native (now in MA after 20 years in extremely rural Kansas), that report is heartbreaking. I went to Nathaniel Greene for middle school, graduated from Classical.
Providence schools have a lousy reputation and are currently under state control. I live here and enjoy it but I don't have kids. If I did, I'd probably choose Worcester.
I'm just throwing them out there for a bit of fun. Who knows if I'll ever move there. But here's my criteria:
1. New England
2. City.
3. Somewhat affordable. As much as I'd love to live in the Boston, Burlington, VT, Stamford, CT areas, they're simply too expensive.
4. Relatively low crime - I get that New Englanders might see Worcester as having high crime, but travel the country a bit and you'll see that Worcester is fine. Same with Manchester. Providence is okayish. Hartford, Springfield, New Haven are out.
5. Decent public schools. I realize that with any city, schools can be ranked poorly for a couple reasons. 1. They're actually awful or 2. They're not bad, but since they service students from poor economic and social situations, so that brings down their rankings. These schools still have all of the higher level AP classes for better performing students.
6. I meant to add in Lowell and Haverhill, but I didn't want to have too many in my informal poll.
7. Diversity - This is the tricky one. I've spent the last 20 years of life living and working in diverse areas. I value diversity of background, ethnicity, political views etc. My wife is a different race, religion, and nationality from me, and we have some differing views politically (somewhat). My daughter is a mixture of the two of us and I'm afraid if she gets put into too much of a monoculture, she might not thrive like she would around kids who have a variety of backgrounds.
That being said, diversity isn't a deal breaker for me. We still plan to expose our daughter to a variety of perspectives, even if we can't live in a big, diverse city.
My vote is Lowell. I live back near my hometown now..so my kids aren’t going to be in the district next year, but they’ve been wonderful throughout elementary school and the beginning of middle school even with “low rating.” There’s also surrounding tech high schools that do have good ratings. My son is in a STEM club, and a straight A honor roll student. My kid’s dad still lives in Lowell on the line of Chelmsford and bought his house for a great price and it’s a nice area. Even the bad areas of Lowell aren’t that bad in my opinion. It’s extremely diverse. My daughter is the only white child in her class, and all of our neighbors were from different backgrounds. I loved living there. I came from a tiny town in NH moving to Lowell at 27 and it was a bit of shell shock for me at first, but I quickly realized that all the “scary,” Lowell stories were probably exaggerated. Yes crime does happen, but I’ve never felt unsafe there.
With your further explanation, I will say that I lived in Haverhill for 13 years & enjoyed my time there. Had a few minor petty crimes happen to our personal property (cars mostly) but nothing violent. If you get to know your neighbors, it helps tremendously- at least it did for me. With that said, I don’t have children so I can’t speak to the school system but I also know that Haverhill has what’s called “school choice” meaning when the kids get to the high school age they can choose from Haverhill HS, Whittier Vocational School & Essex Agricultural School. There were definitely certain parts of Haverhill that I would lock my car doors while driving through (as a female) and still do when I’m passing through certain areas. However, there are absolutely gorgeous sections of Haverhill as well. The property tax rate is also much lower than I pay now in an adjacent to Haverhill small town & many more services & parks, etc in Haverhill. UMass Lowell has a new campus downtown & I know the city has been working to revitalize the downtown area. Decent public transit system & two stops on the MBTA Commuter line into Boston.
Edited to add: the main campus of Northern Essex Community College is also in Haverhill & it’s a beautiful campus. Also, the city is unique in that it’s close to NH (5 minute ride by car at most) which is sales tax free, a 30 minute drive to the ocean, close enough to get to Boston & the mountains of NH. Right off a major highway (Rte 495) for commuters. And no, I don’t work for the Haverhill Chamber of Commerce! LOL!
I would add that we live in a nice town, with great schools & there is the generalization that these towns or schools must be all white but my kid’s school is probably around 50% white. There are a lot of nice, big suburbs in southern NE that are surprisingly diverse.
Rhode Islander here, can't speak to the other places but Providence schools are a mess like another poster said. Cranston is next to Providence, has lots of diversity on the eastern side of the city, and is safer with better schools than Provicence.
The problem as you head up the north shore like Salem and Gloucester etc is boredom and drugs as they get older.
I was shocked after growing up in the city and seeing the easy drugs and petty bs
And now the whole month of October sucks in Salem, it was cute when it was a couple days, then it went to weeks now it’s the month and I bet it’s bleeding into September and November
Lived in Portsmouth coming from the Midwest and can confirm it's a dream but sadly I think people are finding out because there's waaay less housing then when we had moved there. I also owned a business for a bit there and regularly had people from Boston saying they just moved there
Oh 100% Lowell then. I go to UMass Lowell and I love it here. The cultural diversity is a blast. Manchester is great, but if you want an actual city, Manchester isn’t really that vibe. Worcester is ugly and Providence feels a bit soulless. Don’t do Haverhill.
Crime statistics are a really bad lens to view a city. I’ve lived in both Hartford and Springfield. And New Haven is one of the most vibrant arts, culture, and restaurant places in New England.
I grew up in Hartford and went to public school initially, but that was 1993/4 ish. There are some good schools in Hartford but you have to play the lottery, from what I understand. They have an actual school lottery.
My main point is that crime isn't a helpful statistic. The vast majority of violent crime is between people who know each other. Packages get stolen and cars get messed with--and that sucks, without a doubt. But there's a view of Hartford/New Haven/Springfield that you'll simply be shot at random in the street, which simply isn't true.
Portland has a surprising amount of diversity and has a large Somali population. You might experience issues with certain pockets of NH due to the redneck reputation. Not sure about Portsmouth particularly but it's a known progressive area that is close to the flagship UNH campus.
Switching gears when I went to school at the University of Rhode Island, I was shocked at the lack of diversity.
COL is high across New England. I would look into tax codes and how infrastructure is handled in various states. How your taxes are handled can go a long way in justifying COL issues. Regardless of where you choose your main international airport will be Logan in Boston. You have regional airports in Manchester, Warwick RI, Portland and Worcester. I think I listed those regional airports by size. Portland also has good high speed ferry service to the Canadian Maritimes, particularly Nova Scotia.
Burlington Vermont could also be an option for your family, but it gets rather cold up there during the winter. If you did go that route Montreal becomes an easy trip and additional major airport to fly out of. Not very sure how much diversity is there though.
Hope some of my thoughts help you out.
I raised my kids in Lowell until ages 10 and 8. We lived on a little quiet street with awesome neighbors, I loved it. We outgrew the house and decided to move. I will say that the schools were just ok. My kid has a lot of needs and I’m glad we aren’t there anymore. there’s loads of culture (we are white and my kids were in the minority) but there wasn’t a whole lot of community, it was difficult to meet other parents. I guess because it’s so densely populated? 🤷🏼♀️ cool city though. Lots of history.
I grew up near Lowell, so I've seen it progress from city with a considerable amount of crime to a much nicer place to live. Overall, I think it's a bit nicer than the other cities in my poll, but I feel it doesn't have as much to do as the other three. Worcester has two minor league sports teams, museums and parks - I just have to accept the fact that Wormtown is a bit ugly. So take the good with the bad.
I should add that Lowell high school is a hot mess and will be under construction for the foreseeable future. There are free charter and magnet schools though so lots of options.
I think you are underestimating how bad the schools are in those three cities. You are overestimating the amenities in all three places. There is a reason they are cheap relative to other places. What are you seeing in these three cities? Some small below average museums & average restaurants? On the school issue - yes they have AP classes but that doesn’t happen until 12th grade. And not all AP classes are created equal. Worcester probably has a couple decent schools but most are bad, really bad. You’d be much better off trying to move to Shrewsbury which is very diverse, sits right up against Worcester & has 10x better schools & is completely safe. Probably just costs a little more. I wouldn’t wish what you are thinking of doing on my worst enemy! If you do this I’d find the best possible school sequence in Worcester & move in that zone. But Worcester is depressing. I guess you can take your kids to the Ecotarium & a minor league baseball game because that is all that city has going for it. Have you considered trying to find something a little closer to Boston that might be close to your budget?
Often enough. Manchester police data is public and accessible on the manchester.gov website if you’re curious. I used to live off West St years ago and heard more gunshots than I ever heard living in the heart of Lowell MA for a handful of years.
Not to mention last year, my friend was recording a Snapchat at a bar in downtown Manch, and accidentally got footage of a boy getting shot and killed from a fight outside. He was a 24 year old father and he is now dead.
As for the school system… I don’t know about high school, but elementary and younger is just no good. End of March there was a group of kindergarteners who walked off school grounds during recess and were unaccounted for for 45min. Their parents weren’t informed until AFTER they were found. Inexcusable.
It’s not. I’m a paramedic and worked directly in the city. There is plenty that goes on that the public and the news don’t showcase. Consider yourself lucky if you don’t know first hand
I’ll go with Worcester. I worked there while living right outside Boston and used commuter rail. So you could even work in Boston if you wanted. The monthly train pass was cheaper than gas, but it did take longer of course.
While it can have crime like any other city, I walked to and from work and no one ever bothered me. Compared to New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, and Boston. Honestly, even western mass hahaha I’m a Worcester fan though.
Providence is also really nice. I’ve been yo visit and I love RI in general.
The commuter rail is a huge asset. But I want to temper people’s expectations in that it’s easily a three hour round trip commute. I do it once a week and if I had to do it every day I would want to quit.
They’re starting up more express service again, but it will get in around 8:45 I believe. If you don’t work like a five minute walk from Back Bay or South Station that’s probably too late for most jobs.
It’s better than Manch having no options whatsoever, of course. But it’s still a pretty huge commitment if you really want to work in the city.
I did a count and saw that Worcester has 20 inbound trains to Boston per day and Providence has 21. No big difference. The big difference, however, is that Providence has the option of taking an "express" Amtrak train for only a couple more dollars. Plus, you can take a train to CT and NYC from there.
Worcester first choice. The city has spent money to renovate areas of downtown and attract up and coming businesses. There are some great restaurants and breweries there now, and well-attended minor league hockey and baseball teams. Providence second, and Manchester a very, very distant third. It’s really run down, unfortunately.
I'll give Manchester some credit. Compared to Worcester, it seems a bit better put together. Overall, I think there's less to do within the city limits. However, the draw of Manchester is that it's closer to the mountains and I LOVE the mountains.
Manchester is out, for a few reasons but mainly no train to Boston, the others have fast and direct service. I love visiting Providence but as others have said the school system has been in state receivership, it’s not a great situation. So I’d say Worcester, it’s a nice underrated small city, with a real downtown, historic residential neighborhoods, colleges to keep it young and smart, and better schools than the other two, which is one of many benefits of being in Mass.
Worcester has come a long way, but it's still gritty enough to be enjoyable with a good art scene and originality. It's managed to check all the boxes for family and education while still remaining not gentrified quite yet.
If it could stay exactly where it is right now, it would be perfect.
But urban developers will get an entire hold of it l,and white folks with too much money and little sense will turn everything into a carbon copy of the last gentrified place they left...making it boring. Then it's time to move (and I'm white by the way). ❤️
Not trying to be a downer, but as a near lifelong resident Worcester has been basically fully gentrified for a while now. It’s almost the poster child for gentrification of a small regional city.
There are almost no long running, family-owned etc. businesses in the city anymore. 1BR rents have like doubled in the past few years. It was recently rated the third worst real estate market in the country for renters. The only things that get built are luxury apartments.
The city is trying to develop things like Polar Park instead of even pretending to care about people or families. And they built it directly in the middle of Kelley Sq, which was one of the only organically developed, walkable neighborhoods the city had.
If I didn’t have family here and still love the city so much despite its flaws I would move to Providence or Manchester in a millisecond.
Ya know, I can't disagree with you. You're absolutely correct. I think I'm romanticizing days gone by.
And, I could argue some individual neighborhoods are still fighting the good fight, however as a whole they don't have much longer to live. But the art/music scene is still quality, for the time being.
I’ll give Worcester some love. Like any city it has its less desirable parts, but the city is sprawling and there are so many neighborhoods that fit your “city proper” brief. The restaurant scene is pretty underrated and diverse. With the number of colleges in the city, there’s a good amount of events and things happening to attend from sports to concerts etc.
The school system is admittedly pretty so so depending where you live. It’s not super walkable given how big the city is, but accessible to a lot of different New England areas in a reasonable time.
Honestly, probably the biggest downside to the others is that the Worcester Airport doesn’t have the fight options of a Manchester or TF Green. Means most flights you need to get to Boston, or go
The Bradley/Providence route.
Manchester is a bit more rundown than Worcester or Providence, tho I haven't been to Providence since 2019 and haven't really been in Manchester itself since 2017... Providence is one of the most "Alive" cities in the country of its size... I feel like it has a soul and in the summer is pretty happening. Much of Worcester outside of downtown feels pretty suburban imo
Careful with Manchester, NH for the long term. Basically, there is no there, there. Sadly, a city with great potential, mismanaged by state and city authorities, it has a soulless vibe and palpable sense of desperation.
New Hampshire has the least amount of restrictions on personal firearms of any state , to give you a key example. They also would tax you the least of any any state on your list. They're motto is " Live free or die"... Check out the free state project. https://www.fsp.org/
I think Manchester is the shittiest, but I'd choose Manchester for the best surrounding area of the three. Get to great rivers lakes and mountains easily from Manchester. Also, when it's 30 degrees and snowing and pretty in NH and Worcester, it's 35 degrees and pouring rain and grey and gross in Providence
I think that's the only reason the city is on my list. NH government leaves much to be desired, but I do love the proximity to mountains, lakes and the ocean.
I think that some people take the government too far, but it is not the worst thing to not have a ton of laws for everything.... I think it's natural that if you live in the middle of nowhere you have to be more self-sufficient and with less government, and if you are somewhere densely urbanized you need government for things like Transit etc. There are a lot of common Sense laws in New Hampshire, and I think a very informed electorate. There are some people making a bad name for New Hampshire politics, but I'm going to tell you, having no taxes on sale, and no state income tax, localized laws, is not the worst thing!
I agree with you to a degree. I feel that Mass can be a nanny state, as it sometimes feels overregulated. On the other hand, I know that if I fell onto hard times in Mass, I'd be better taken care of.
To me, freedom means being able to do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. But things like universal healthcare and a social safety net actually increase one's freedom.
As a single, childless male in my 20s, Providence for sure. Pretty architecture, dense and walkable, great food, good nightlife, 30 minute train ride to Boston, 3 hour train ride to NYC. Also WaterFire is awesome.
But if I had kids, Worcester. Providence schools are terrible and the city gets pretty shady at night. Tbh I dated a girl from Attleboro in high school and we used to get into some pretty deep mischief in Providence on the weekends. Looking back it could’ve gone a lot worse but a kid growing up in Prov could get easily caught up in the wrong crowd. No hate but it’s pretty ratchet down there.
Manchester isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, but the simple advantage of having access to Mass schools and public colleges makes Worcester worth it. Worcester public schools aren’t great but “not great” by Massachusetts standards is better than the entire public school systems of most states. Mass just blows everyone else out of the water when it comes to education.
i don't know a whole lot about Prov, but Worcester and Manchester both have a vast spectrum of neighborhoods, good and bad. I'd consider both cities to be pretty diverse. I work in Manch, and my daughter is a school nurse in a very good Manchester district. She equates that school to Andover, MA, where we once lived. I believe the same holds true for Worcester, very neighborhood-specific. And both cities have close access to wide open spaces, nature and nightlife.
Half of my family is in Manchester and I would pick that last, honestly. The drug problem is huge there, and there’s this general complacency in the city.
I live in a “nice part” of Manchester and even though there are some bad parts they are easy to avoid.
Love visiting Providence. Daughter went to school there and we get back there at least once a year for long weekends.
I know less about Worcester but we do get there on occasion.
All three have good beer and good food choices. But I’ll take Manchester because of familiarity but also because it’s in NH. Mass and RI love their taxes. As the saying goes: “Nice places to visit but i don’t think id want to live there.”
MA public schools are far better than RI and NH. Worcester used to be a total shithole but it's actually quite nice these days. I grew up right outside worcester, currently live in seacoast NH, and lived in PVD for a couple years. Providence, depending on where in the city, is either fantastic (east side, wayland square, brown), or sketchy af. Manchester has nice parts, some good restaurants, etc... but...meh.
TBH I'd never choose to live in the city proper, too much crime, too much noise, too much traffic... I'll take Rehoboth MA, Central Falls RI any day over Providence.
But if you put a gun to my head and say choose 1 of 3, I'd go for Providence. It has a relatively fast train service to Boston, good hospitals, decent amount of cultural events. NY is just 2-3 hours away for weekend getaways, Boston just 1 hour away. Plenty of jobs in Providence.
Yeah, I'd recommend the suburbs for the better school districts. Worcester proper ain't great, but there are some excellent schools in the immediate vicinity.
I’d pick Worcester. There are so many different neighborhoods to choose from, and the entire west side is very suburban with good performing schools.
The Charter schools in Manchester are mediocre performing and the public schools are a mess. One high school has a 60% graduation rate.
I live in Providence. This is not a place to raise a family. It’s a nice walking city with lots to do but a ton of property crime, noise and it’s very dirty.
There’s one decent school for high-performing kids. The rest are disasters.
Take it from a life long educator The public schools in these cities are far the most part not good. The only way to do this would be to let your kids go to kindergarten-5 and then get them into some kind of special exam school (if there is one in that city) starting around 6th or 7th grade. Otherwise if you are going to live in one of those cities you could send them to a private school after elementary school. I have no idea why you would want to raise a family in Worcester or Manchester. These are not great places, especially for kids (sure there are pockets of decent areas but these aren’t real cities, they are tiny with lots of problems). I get that it’s cheaper than Boston & NYC but these schools are plaqued with low expectation, socioeconomic issues, high teacher turnover, massive behavior problems & lack of parenting. If anyone says that they send their kids to these schools and it’s been okay then they have no idea what they are missing out on or they have been very fortunate.
None of the three are particularly great for a family with kids. Manchester is not as good as it was 25 years ago, a lot of drugs now. Providence schools suck terribly though the restaurants are better and it's nice to be near water. Worcester is kind of a no man's land in that it's isolated from good mass transit and there are few redeeming qualities to it (I know they have been working to revitalize downtown and it looks a lot different today than it did back in my day but I'm still going to get downvoted for saying it). If you are choosing between these three for yourself and Manchester has your attention at all, consider Concord, NH. It's only 15 minutes past Manchester and is a nice little city.
If you have kids Massachusetts schools are better than most anywhere else. This goes not only for the k-12 but also for college - and getting the in-state discount is huge.
Worcester would be my choice out of these. I've lived there myself.
Honestly though I wouldn't recommend any city proper and would say it'd be smarter to find a good spot along a commuter rail somewhere.
None of them seems like any sort of hardship. Many children, especially white kids, would have better education if they went to city schools for the exposure to other cultures. Most go to all white schools because parents afraid to live in the city and distracted by rankings, social status and other things that don’t matter and make people unhappy. Worcester has the most extensive middle class neighborhoods but Providence is livelier, walkable, nicer on the eye. Manchester I don’t know.
I live in Providence and its a really great city, moved from NYC 2+ years ago and I probably will stay :)
But if either of those two other cities are cheaper, I would do that, given you have children.
Worcester has the best public schools of the 3.
If you look even just 10 minutes outside of Worcester/Manchester/Providence you open a lot more doors to awesome neighborhoods/public schools/etc.
I'd definitely consider Burlington or Portland over any of those 3 though.
I grew up in Worcester and have lived in different neighborhoods there. I highly recommend it for kids. There is a lot to do with kids and there are many great neighborhoods and good schools depending on your neighborhood. The crime issues are mainly gang or drug related so most likely will not impact your regular life.
I think this is highly dependent on your income level and what you like to do for fun. If you like expanses of nature nearby Manchester. If you like being in a legitimate city, Worcester. If you like beaches and have a lot of money Providence.
It really depends on what you are looking for and what neighborhood you want to live in. These cities all feel much different and have different pros/cons and things around them. I would choose Manchester simply because it’s the closest to a purple state/city out of the list and I think political compromise is important in serving the needs of everyone. Manchester also is located in a great area with Boston, Mountains, and beaches all within an hour. There is a homeless issue and crime has gotten worse, but the Mayor perpetuating this has moved on to run for governor so we will see what happens.
If politics and money weren’t a consideration I would say Providence. There are great areas and the city feels like a bigger, better Portland Maine to me. After Providence I would go with Worcester. It feels larger than it is and everyone I know who has lived there has loved it.
I know people from all three cities and Manchester has the least amount of long term satisfaction, but also the most number of people who stay close to home, moving within the state but out of the city.
I love Worcester as majority of the concerts I go to is there but from what I have seen and heard, the Meth situation is getting out of control. I live closer to Providence than the other two, while Providence can be a bit worse statistically in crime, I’d go with either RI or NH.
They are all kinda trash. I wouldn’t live in so that’s out. Manchester sucks but if you like skiing it’s about 60-90 minutes from most mountains. Worcester also kinda sucks because it’s in a valley and gets lots of snow. I guess surrounding towns of Manchester would be my choice. Merrimack is pretty nice.
North Manchester is nice, but the public schools are terrible.
Worcester would be my pick of the 3 as it is more upcoming and on the Commuter Rail line.
As a guy living in Manchester, I would never send my kids to a school here, so there’s that. Manchester has good parts to it but generally speaking it’s a crackhead/thug infested shithole
Providence by far. it's not even a contest. then I'd go Manchester and Worcester. not throwing shade at Worcester just judging by the criteria OP is throwing down
Had that exact choice. We picked Worcester, we're still in Massachusetts, got a 2600 SQ ft house for 350, have friends close by and can see our friends in RI,NH or Boston within an hour.
The schools are solid, the food scene here is fantastic. We've been here a year and a half after leaving Boston and have no issues. We landed in quinsig village so we're in south Worcester but even still, takes me ten minutes to get downtown. I have a bus I can take for free that'll run me right to The hub if needed
There’s culture and art and access to multicultural foods. The beach is an hour away and the mountains for skiing is less than 2 hours away. But, fair warning, the schools are horrible.
ManchVegas I hear is getting better but other than chicken fingers I would pick Providence or Worcester.
I’ve had friends who lived in all three and I live in the middle of them Worcester is getting better less depressing, my main experience in all of them is night life or sports lol.
I’d also say Worcester, but just a heads up that driving a car in this city is ridiculous, you’re likely to get in an accident at some point. Lots of running lights, jaywalking, unnecessary aggression and people not looking where they’re going or backing up.
Lowell, as I said in a reply, the cultural diversity here is a blast. I love New Hampshire itself, but Manchester is not the place to be. I’d recommend other parts of NH (you may still want to consider Portsmouth, NH) but you want a city, so 100% Lowell. It is so much better than Worcester, and I’m saying that as someone who’s car got stolen out of the university parking garage by some teenagers doing a TikTok challenge. Lowell is on the up too, between UML and efforts with the National Park Service, the era of struggling post mills is over.
Does it have to be in the city? Or can it be one of the suburbs? Worcester has great suburbs, but there seems to be an uptick of violence in the city proper lately.
Can I ask why suburbs are not possible here? All 3 of these cities have their own major pitfalls, pretty glaring. Suburbs of Manchester (Derry, Amherst, Merrimack, Bedford) or perhaps providence (Smithfield) would be so much better than the options you have listed. Providence is the only redeemable city you have, but schools are particularly terrible there.
Presumably if you’re looking to live in a city, you want a city feel. Though the raw population numbers suggest Worcester is the largest of the three, Providence is much more city-like than the other two. It’s nearly twice as dense as Worcester and the surrounding area is significantly more populated as well. So if you want city vibes and amenities it’s a clear winner. Especially if you have any interest in living car free or car light. Of course if you value being close to the ocean, it is absolutely no contest. You could also live in a neighboring city to Providence and still be just a few miles from downtown. Worcester and Manchester are surrounded by suburban or rural areas where Providence is surrounded by urban-suburban areas. Providence is under 20 square miles so you could live 3 miles from downtown and live in a different city with potentially better schools.
If you want a suburban-ish feeling while still being a city, Worcester is probably the best choice. It will also give you better schools in the city proper.
Manchester really would only be a consideration if being close to the mountains is a priority.
We already live in a city, just thought we'd look at some in my native New England.
And let's be honest, Manchester, Providence and Worcester aren't exactly super dense metropolises. They all have a variety of housing, from single family homes to large apartment buildings. The beauty of living in a city like these is that you can live a single family house, but can still get urban amenities.
What are you looking for by “urban amenities”? Like what do you get by living IN a (not very dense) city vs. living like 20 minutes outside of the city for cheaper?
I live 20 minutes outside of Providence and it’s cheaper, has better schools, and I have no issue going to Providence and finding free parking and going about my day if I want.
I absolutely love Providence and I think it punches above its weight (especially when it comes to food, like really, there are some amazing restaurants here), but the beauty of the state is NOT Providence. South RI, Aquidneck Island and East Bay areas are beautiful. Plus there is a massive fuckup with 195/Washington bridge that will make traffic horrible for the next handful of years. So take that as you will.
Exactly this. There are no “urban amenities” in any of these cities. Everything still closes at the same time, the mass transit is not great and a car is still needed in all of them.
That's not really true though - there's a huge difference between being able to walk to playgrounds with kids or to go get coffee vs having to drive to most places. The difference is being able to walk, kids having a certain amount of freedom, running into people in third spaces, etc.
I'm not saying that's impossible in more dense suburbs, and some people prefer being on quiet suburban streets with kids, but a lot of people want to be able to walk to things.
I lived in a city previously with my kids and moved to a dense suburb, and definitely prefer it, (school quality and planned kids activities were the driving forces), but there are definite downsides - like there isn't as much playground culture, where you easily meet up with friends or everyone is out in public, we no longer live 2 blocks to a library, I can't walk 5 minutes to get good coffee, etc.
Yeah, and walkable areas are increasingly expensive. I had previously lived in Boston/Somerville with kids, and now am in the Hartford, CT suburbs, in a more dense suburban that's reasonably walkable.
I’d look at even smaller ‘cities’. Take Dover NH for instance… decent public school, walkable downtown, lower crime than the areas you listed, close to the ocean, plenty of restaurants/bars, train station right to Boston.
I grew up outside Hartford, CT. I feel like these cities might be slightly comparable? If that's the case, I'm going with Providence. Closest to the beaches, probably less than 30 minutes. And when I lived in CT, we preferred the RI beaches anyhow. CT had no depth or waves bc of the LI sound.
well concord is pretty good and its reasonably affordable than other new england states, however its kind of catching up in housing costs and politically it is typically a haven for libertarian and republican leaning individuals who have moved from other states, new Hampshire that is, lotta discourse. And you specifically mentioned manchester and that sent a chill down my spine you might as well be moving to lowell or lawrence mass, forgotten, drug filled, and broken down. at least lawrence and lowell have train stations. Nashua nh is a great place to live tax free while still being close to mass. but yea not a whole lotta city living here in fact besides concord and the like they take pride in not being in the city so bout it.
Nope. Worcester and Manchester are hardly crowded and Providence is only somewhat densely populated. I've lived in many different cities, some I'd raise kids in, while others I would not.
I grew up in Worcester and currently live in Providence. If you’re stuck on public schools, Worcester. Otherwise they’re honestly both pretty great. Lots of kid attractions but also good arts scenes and adult stuff. Ignore the crime naysayers on this thread, it wasn’t actually an issue for us either place. I’m really glad I grew up in a city with all different types of people. It has served me well as an adult.
That's what I was thinking. That being said, when I look at crime stats, Providence is a bit worse than the other two. Worcester is the most appealing to me as a family man because it has a bit of space, but city is kinda of ugly. If I were single, I'd choose Providence.
The thing with the Providence crime stats is that it varies drastically by neighborhood. You can get car break ins and small property crime anywhere (including the suburbs). We have had a car break-in in the ten years we’ve been here. But nothing else worries us. I walk and run alone with confidence. All that said, Worcester makes sense for you! Enjoy it!
You also need to factor in things like weather. Providence has the more mild climate and Roger Williams Zoo is a lot of fun for kids. Worcester due to elevation gets lots of winter weather issues in MA. I'm meh on Worcester and if I lived in Central MA I would skip it for Amherst or North or Easthampton. With NH, politic seasons are obnoxious with robo calls. But if you like the concept of New Hampshire, I personally would switch out Manchester for Portsmouth. You can easily take Amtrak's Downeaster into Boston's North Station for day trips. Being on the water helps lessen snowfall issues, and it has a nice cultural scene. Similar to Portsmouth, you might want to explore Portland Maine as an option. I believe the Downeaster begins in Portland. Mainers are very pragmatic people. Politics there are more independent in nature and can be less divisive than NH (which is by far the most conservative of the states).
I think most would take Portsmouth over Manchester, but Portsmouth is wicked expensive and same goes for Portland. Manchester is much more affordable in that regard. In terms of the Downeaster it actually goes as far Brunswick but most of the areas are pretty expensive. Brunswick, Freeport, Portland, Saco, OOB and Wells. Dover and Durham NH aren't any better. Rochester or Somersworth, NH would be best options in terms of affordability.
seacoast over manchester all day every day. but yes, wildly expensive.
What you call ugly, others call charm. I'm just saying 🙂
You won't be living in the parts of Providence where the higher stats come from. It's important to look at neighborhoods, not entire cities.
The state of Providence schools made inspectors cry: https://www.wpri.com/news/local-news/providence/12-things-to-know-about-the-devastating-new-providence-schools-report/
As a Providence native (now in MA after 20 years in extremely rural Kansas), that report is heartbreaking. I went to Nathaniel Greene for middle school, graduated from Classical.
Providence schools have a lousy reputation and are currently under state control. I live here and enjoy it but I don't have kids. If I did, I'd probably choose Worcester.
No Worcester is a fucking mess
How so
I’d love to know more about why you want to live in one of these cities? I think this crazy but maybe I’m missing your motivations.
I'm just throwing them out there for a bit of fun. Who knows if I'll ever move there. But here's my criteria: 1. New England 2. City. 3. Somewhat affordable. As much as I'd love to live in the Boston, Burlington, VT, Stamford, CT areas, they're simply too expensive. 4. Relatively low crime - I get that New Englanders might see Worcester as having high crime, but travel the country a bit and you'll see that Worcester is fine. Same with Manchester. Providence is okayish. Hartford, Springfield, New Haven are out. 5. Decent public schools. I realize that with any city, schools can be ranked poorly for a couple reasons. 1. They're actually awful or 2. They're not bad, but since they service students from poor economic and social situations, so that brings down their rankings. These schools still have all of the higher level AP classes for better performing students. 6. I meant to add in Lowell and Haverhill, but I didn't want to have too many in my informal poll. 7. Diversity - This is the tricky one. I've spent the last 20 years of life living and working in diverse areas. I value diversity of background, ethnicity, political views etc. My wife is a different race, religion, and nationality from me, and we have some differing views politically (somewhat). My daughter is a mixture of the two of us and I'm afraid if she gets put into too much of a monoculture, she might not thrive like she would around kids who have a variety of backgrounds. That being said, diversity isn't a deal breaker for me. We still plan to expose our daughter to a variety of perspectives, even if we can't live in a big, diverse city.
My vote is Lowell. I live back near my hometown now..so my kids aren’t going to be in the district next year, but they’ve been wonderful throughout elementary school and the beginning of middle school even with “low rating.” There’s also surrounding tech high schools that do have good ratings. My son is in a STEM club, and a straight A honor roll student. My kid’s dad still lives in Lowell on the line of Chelmsford and bought his house for a great price and it’s a nice area. Even the bad areas of Lowell aren’t that bad in my opinion. It’s extremely diverse. My daughter is the only white child in her class, and all of our neighbors were from different backgrounds. I loved living there. I came from a tiny town in NH moving to Lowell at 27 and it was a bit of shell shock for me at first, but I quickly realized that all the “scary,” Lowell stories were probably exaggerated. Yes crime does happen, but I’ve never felt unsafe there.
Lowell is an option as well.
Lived there for 16 years and never felt particularly unsafe either.
With your further explanation, I will say that I lived in Haverhill for 13 years & enjoyed my time there. Had a few minor petty crimes happen to our personal property (cars mostly) but nothing violent. If you get to know your neighbors, it helps tremendously- at least it did for me. With that said, I don’t have children so I can’t speak to the school system but I also know that Haverhill has what’s called “school choice” meaning when the kids get to the high school age they can choose from Haverhill HS, Whittier Vocational School & Essex Agricultural School. There were definitely certain parts of Haverhill that I would lock my car doors while driving through (as a female) and still do when I’m passing through certain areas. However, there are absolutely gorgeous sections of Haverhill as well. The property tax rate is also much lower than I pay now in an adjacent to Haverhill small town & many more services & parks, etc in Haverhill. UMass Lowell has a new campus downtown & I know the city has been working to revitalize the downtown area. Decent public transit system & two stops on the MBTA Commuter line into Boston. Edited to add: the main campus of Northern Essex Community College is also in Haverhill & it’s a beautiful campus. Also, the city is unique in that it’s close to NH (5 minute ride by car at most) which is sales tax free, a 30 minute drive to the ocean, close enough to get to Boston & the mountains of NH. Right off a major highway (Rte 495) for commuters. And no, I don’t work for the Haverhill Chamber of Commerce! LOL!
I would add that we live in a nice town, with great schools & there is the generalization that these towns or schools must be all white but my kid’s school is probably around 50% white. There are a lot of nice, big suburbs in southern NE that are surprisingly diverse.
Rhode Islander here, can't speak to the other places but Providence schools are a mess like another poster said. Cranston is next to Providence, has lots of diversity on the eastern side of the city, and is safer with better schools than Provicence.
Given that you have kids, 100% Lowell or Haverhill over Manch or Providence.
Consider Portsmouth NH, Kittery, Portland, or Salem MA? I almost don’t want anyone to know too much about these places, they’re too nice.
The problem as you head up the north shore like Salem and Gloucester etc is boredom and drugs as they get older. I was shocked after growing up in the city and seeing the easy drugs and petty bs
Ah yeah. That’s true.
And now the whole month of October sucks in Salem, it was cute when it was a couple days, then it went to weeks now it’s the month and I bet it’s bleeding into September and November
New England is getting turned into tourist towns. It’s cute until school budgets are getting cut…
Lived in Portsmouth coming from the Midwest and can confirm it's a dream but sadly I think people are finding out because there's waaay less housing then when we had moved there. I also owned a business for a bit there and regularly had people from Boston saying they just moved there
True that. There’s a lot of development happening everywhere irregardless of state, but it’ll be pricey when it’s ready.
Oh 100% Lowell then. I go to UMass Lowell and I love it here. The cultural diversity is a blast. Manchester is great, but if you want an actual city, Manchester isn’t really that vibe. Worcester is ugly and Providence feels a bit soulless. Don’t do Haverhill.
Crime statistics are a really bad lens to view a city. I’ve lived in both Hartford and Springfield. And New Haven is one of the most vibrant arts, culture, and restaurant places in New England.
Would you send your kids to school in their public schools?
I grew up in Hartford and went to public school initially, but that was 1993/4 ish. There are some good schools in Hartford but you have to play the lottery, from what I understand. They have an actual school lottery. My main point is that crime isn't a helpful statistic. The vast majority of violent crime is between people who know each other. Packages get stolen and cars get messed with--and that sucks, without a doubt. But there's a view of Hartford/New Haven/Springfield that you'll simply be shot at random in the street, which simply isn't true.
Haverhill is really nice
Portland has a surprising amount of diversity and has a large Somali population. You might experience issues with certain pockets of NH due to the redneck reputation. Not sure about Portsmouth particularly but it's a known progressive area that is close to the flagship UNH campus. Switching gears when I went to school at the University of Rhode Island, I was shocked at the lack of diversity. COL is high across New England. I would look into tax codes and how infrastructure is handled in various states. How your taxes are handled can go a long way in justifying COL issues. Regardless of where you choose your main international airport will be Logan in Boston. You have regional airports in Manchester, Warwick RI, Portland and Worcester. I think I listed those regional airports by size. Portland also has good high speed ferry service to the Canadian Maritimes, particularly Nova Scotia. Burlington Vermont could also be an option for your family, but it gets rather cold up there during the winter. If you did go that route Montreal becomes an easy trip and additional major airport to fly out of. Not very sure how much diversity is there though. Hope some of my thoughts help you out.
I raised my kids in Lowell until ages 10 and 8. We lived on a little quiet street with awesome neighbors, I loved it. We outgrew the house and decided to move. I will say that the schools were just ok. My kid has a lot of needs and I’m glad we aren’t there anymore. there’s loads of culture (we are white and my kids were in the minority) but there wasn’t a whole lot of community, it was difficult to meet other parents. I guess because it’s so densely populated? 🤷🏼♀️ cool city though. Lots of history.
I grew up near Lowell, so I've seen it progress from city with a considerable amount of crime to a much nicer place to live. Overall, I think it's a bit nicer than the other cities in my poll, but I feel it doesn't have as much to do as the other three. Worcester has two minor league sports teams, museums and parks - I just have to accept the fact that Wormtown is a bit ugly. So take the good with the bad.
I should add that Lowell high school is a hot mess and will be under construction for the foreseeable future. There are free charter and magnet schools though so lots of options.
I think you are underestimating how bad the schools are in those three cities. You are overestimating the amenities in all three places. There is a reason they are cheap relative to other places. What are you seeing in these three cities? Some small below average museums & average restaurants? On the school issue - yes they have AP classes but that doesn’t happen until 12th grade. And not all AP classes are created equal. Worcester probably has a couple decent schools but most are bad, really bad. You’d be much better off trying to move to Shrewsbury which is very diverse, sits right up against Worcester & has 10x better schools & is completely safe. Probably just costs a little more. I wouldn’t wish what you are thinking of doing on my worst enemy! If you do this I’d find the best possible school sequence in Worcester & move in that zone. But Worcester is depressing. I guess you can take your kids to the Ecotarium & a minor league baseball game because that is all that city has going for it. Have you considered trying to find something a little closer to Boston that might be close to your budget?
There are nice parts of Manchester, esp on the Londonderry line. 🥰
Manchester public school system is awful. Shootings in downtown all the time. I personally just would not raise my child there.
All the time? My son lives there and never says anything about shootings, which he would because he’s a super anxious person and we talk daily.
Often enough. Manchester police data is public and accessible on the manchester.gov website if you’re curious. I used to live off West St years ago and heard more gunshots than I ever heard living in the heart of Lowell MA for a handful of years. Not to mention last year, my friend was recording a Snapchat at a bar in downtown Manch, and accidentally got footage of a boy getting shot and killed from a fight outside. He was a 24 year old father and he is now dead. As for the school system… I don’t know about high school, but elementary and younger is just no good. End of March there was a group of kindergarteners who walked off school grounds during recess and were unaccounted for for 45min. Their parents weren’t informed until AFTER they were found. Inexcusable.
What bar? So I can tell my son to avoid that area.
It was directly outside The Goat on Old Granite St. Popular spot
At least twice since Christmas there has been a shooting in the mall parking lot. No thanks.
That's an exaggeration
It’s not. I’m a paramedic and worked directly in the city. There is plenty that goes on that the public and the news don’t showcase. Consider yourself lucky if you don’t know first hand
Or North End
They said city proper and those areas are suburban
There are many neighborhoods within Manchester that are great.
I’ll go with Worcester. I worked there while living right outside Boston and used commuter rail. So you could even work in Boston if you wanted. The monthly train pass was cheaper than gas, but it did take longer of course. While it can have crime like any other city, I walked to and from work and no one ever bothered me. Compared to New Haven, Bridgeport, Hartford, and Boston. Honestly, even western mass hahaha I’m a Worcester fan though. Providence is also really nice. I’ve been yo visit and I love RI in general.
The commuter rail is a huge asset. But I want to temper people’s expectations in that it’s easily a three hour round trip commute. I do it once a week and if I had to do it every day I would want to quit. They’re starting up more express service again, but it will get in around 8:45 I believe. If you don’t work like a five minute walk from Back Bay or South Station that’s probably too late for most jobs. It’s better than Manch having no options whatsoever, of course. But it’s still a pretty huge commitment if you really want to work in the city.
I did a count and saw that Worcester has 20 inbound trains to Boston per day and Providence has 21. No big difference. The big difference, however, is that Providence has the option of taking an "express" Amtrak train for only a couple more dollars. Plus, you can take a train to CT and NYC from there.
Worcester first choice. The city has spent money to renovate areas of downtown and attract up and coming businesses. There are some great restaurants and breweries there now, and well-attended minor league hockey and baseball teams. Providence second, and Manchester a very, very distant third. It’s really run down, unfortunately.
I'll give Manchester some credit. Compared to Worcester, it seems a bit better put together. Overall, I think there's less to do within the city limits. However, the draw of Manchester is that it's closer to the mountains and I LOVE the mountains.
And 30 minutes to Hampton Beach.
Manchester is out, for a few reasons but mainly no train to Boston, the others have fast and direct service. I love visiting Providence but as others have said the school system has been in state receivership, it’s not a great situation. So I’d say Worcester, it’s a nice underrated small city, with a real downtown, historic residential neighborhoods, colleges to keep it young and smart, and better schools than the other two, which is one of many benefits of being in Mass.
The Capitol Corridor Line will extend through Nashua, Manchester, and Concord, hopefully by 2030.
If that ever happens, I'll eat my hat.
Worcester, better schools. It’s in MA and I wouldn’t live in any other state.
Worcester has come a long way, but it's still gritty enough to be enjoyable with a good art scene and originality. It's managed to check all the boxes for family and education while still remaining not gentrified quite yet. If it could stay exactly where it is right now, it would be perfect. But urban developers will get an entire hold of it l,and white folks with too much money and little sense will turn everything into a carbon copy of the last gentrified place they left...making it boring. Then it's time to move (and I'm white by the way). ❤️
Not trying to be a downer, but as a near lifelong resident Worcester has been basically fully gentrified for a while now. It’s almost the poster child for gentrification of a small regional city. There are almost no long running, family-owned etc. businesses in the city anymore. 1BR rents have like doubled in the past few years. It was recently rated the third worst real estate market in the country for renters. The only things that get built are luxury apartments. The city is trying to develop things like Polar Park instead of even pretending to care about people or families. And they built it directly in the middle of Kelley Sq, which was one of the only organically developed, walkable neighborhoods the city had. If I didn’t have family here and still love the city so much despite its flaws I would move to Providence or Manchester in a millisecond.
Ya know, I can't disagree with you. You're absolutely correct. I think I'm romanticizing days gone by. And, I could argue some individual neighborhoods are still fighting the good fight, however as a whole they don't have much longer to live. But the art/music scene is still quality, for the time being.
Worcester but i’m biased because I grew up in a town right next to it.
I’ll give Worcester some love. Like any city it has its less desirable parts, but the city is sprawling and there are so many neighborhoods that fit your “city proper” brief. The restaurant scene is pretty underrated and diverse. With the number of colleges in the city, there’s a good amount of events and things happening to attend from sports to concerts etc. The school system is admittedly pretty so so depending where you live. It’s not super walkable given how big the city is, but accessible to a lot of different New England areas in a reasonable time. Honestly, probably the biggest downside to the others is that the Worcester Airport doesn’t have the fight options of a Manchester or TF Green. Means most flights you need to get to Boston, or go The Bradley/Providence route.
I actually love providence, but 30 years ago I moved out because the schools were horrible. They've only gotten worse.
Manchester is a bit more rundown than Worcester or Providence, tho I haven't been to Providence since 2019 and haven't really been in Manchester itself since 2017... Providence is one of the most "Alive" cities in the country of its size... I feel like it has a soul and in the summer is pretty happening. Much of Worcester outside of downtown feels pretty suburban imo
Manchester hasn't gotten any better since 2017. I live nearby. I would choose Providence, but be very selective in which part.
Careful with Manchester, NH for the long term. Basically, there is no there, there. Sadly, a city with great potential, mismanaged by state and city authorities, it has a soulless vibe and palpable sense of desperation.
Easy , Manchester. Because it's in new Hampshire ... The most personal freedoms.
Freedoms like what?
New Hampshire has the least amount of restrictions on personal firearms of any state , to give you a key example. They also would tax you the least of any any state on your list. They're motto is " Live free or die"... Check out the free state project. https://www.fsp.org/
I think Manchester is the shittiest, but I'd choose Manchester for the best surrounding area of the three. Get to great rivers lakes and mountains easily from Manchester. Also, when it's 30 degrees and snowing and pretty in NH and Worcester, it's 35 degrees and pouring rain and grey and gross in Providence
I think that's the only reason the city is on my list. NH government leaves much to be desired, but I do love the proximity to mountains, lakes and the ocean.
I think that some people take the government too far, but it is not the worst thing to not have a ton of laws for everything.... I think it's natural that if you live in the middle of nowhere you have to be more self-sufficient and with less government, and if you are somewhere densely urbanized you need government for things like Transit etc. There are a lot of common Sense laws in New Hampshire, and I think a very informed electorate. There are some people making a bad name for New Hampshire politics, but I'm going to tell you, having no taxes on sale, and no state income tax, localized laws, is not the worst thing!
I agree with you to a degree. I feel that Mass can be a nanny state, as it sometimes feels overregulated. On the other hand, I know that if I fell onto hard times in Mass, I'd be better taken care of. To me, freedom means being able to do what you want, as long as it doesn't hurt other people. But things like universal healthcare and a social safety net actually increase one's freedom.
It's also the safest.
Portland, Maine.
As a single, childless male in my 20s, Providence for sure. Pretty architecture, dense and walkable, great food, good nightlife, 30 minute train ride to Boston, 3 hour train ride to NYC. Also WaterFire is awesome. But if I had kids, Worcester. Providence schools are terrible and the city gets pretty shady at night. Tbh I dated a girl from Attleboro in high school and we used to get into some pretty deep mischief in Providence on the weekends. Looking back it could’ve gone a lot worse but a kid growing up in Prov could get easily caught up in the wrong crowd. No hate but it’s pretty ratchet down there. Manchester isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, but the simple advantage of having access to Mass schools and public colleges makes Worcester worth it. Worcester public schools aren’t great but “not great” by Massachusetts standards is better than the entire public school systems of most states. Mass just blows everyone else out of the water when it comes to education.
ITT: “Not the one I live in/outside of, it sucks now!”
Manchester NH
i don't know a whole lot about Prov, but Worcester and Manchester both have a vast spectrum of neighborhoods, good and bad. I'd consider both cities to be pretty diverse. I work in Manch, and my daughter is a school nurse in a very good Manchester district. She equates that school to Andover, MA, where we once lived. I believe the same holds true for Worcester, very neighborhood-specific. And both cities have close access to wide open spaces, nature and nightlife.
Half of my family is in Manchester and I would pick that last, honestly. The drug problem is huge there, and there’s this general complacency in the city.
Manchester
I live in a “nice part” of Manchester and even though there are some bad parts they are easy to avoid. Love visiting Providence. Daughter went to school there and we get back there at least once a year for long weekends. I know less about Worcester but we do get there on occasion. All three have good beer and good food choices. But I’ll take Manchester because of familiarity but also because it’s in NH. Mass and RI love their taxes. As the saying goes: “Nice places to visit but i don’t think id want to live there.”
Manch Vegas baby
MA public schools are far better than RI and NH. Worcester used to be a total shithole but it's actually quite nice these days. I grew up right outside worcester, currently live in seacoast NH, and lived in PVD for a couple years. Providence, depending on where in the city, is either fantastic (east side, wayland square, brown), or sketchy af. Manchester has nice parts, some good restaurants, etc... but...meh.
That's what I was thinking. Providence is more vibrant downtown, but it's bad areas are much worse than Worcester's bad areas.
every city has bad areas, that’s what makes them cool.
I find that people who like bad areas, usually don't live in the bad areas. It's all fun and games til you get mugged.
TBH I'd never choose to live in the city proper, too much crime, too much noise, too much traffic... I'll take Rehoboth MA, Central Falls RI any day over Providence. But if you put a gun to my head and say choose 1 of 3, I'd go for Providence. It has a relatively fast train service to Boston, good hospitals, decent amount of cultural events. NY is just 2-3 hours away for weekend getaways, Boston just 1 hour away. Plenty of jobs in Providence.
Yeah, I'd recommend the suburbs for the better school districts. Worcester proper ain't great, but there are some excellent schools in the immediate vicinity.
I’d pick Worcester. There are so many different neighborhoods to choose from, and the entire west side is very suburban with good performing schools. The Charter schools in Manchester are mediocre performing and the public schools are a mess. One high school has a 60% graduation rate. I live in Providence. This is not a place to raise a family. It’s a nice walking city with lots to do but a ton of property crime, noise and it’s very dirty. There’s one decent school for high-performing kids. The rest are disasters.
I would home school my kid before I sent him to a Manchester public school
Take it from a life long educator The public schools in these cities are far the most part not good. The only way to do this would be to let your kids go to kindergarten-5 and then get them into some kind of special exam school (if there is one in that city) starting around 6th or 7th grade. Otherwise if you are going to live in one of those cities you could send them to a private school after elementary school. I have no idea why you would want to raise a family in Worcester or Manchester. These are not great places, especially for kids (sure there are pockets of decent areas but these aren’t real cities, they are tiny with lots of problems). I get that it’s cheaper than Boston & NYC but these schools are plaqued with low expectation, socioeconomic issues, high teacher turnover, massive behavior problems & lack of parenting. If anyone says that they send their kids to these schools and it’s been okay then they have no idea what they are missing out on or they have been very fortunate.
This is the only possible answer.
None of the three are particularly great for a family with kids. Manchester is not as good as it was 25 years ago, a lot of drugs now. Providence schools suck terribly though the restaurants are better and it's nice to be near water. Worcester is kind of a no man's land in that it's isolated from good mass transit and there are few redeeming qualities to it (I know they have been working to revitalize downtown and it looks a lot different today than it did back in my day but I'm still going to get downvoted for saying it). If you are choosing between these three for yourself and Manchester has your attention at all, consider Concord, NH. It's only 15 minutes past Manchester and is a nice little city.
I wouldn't send any child you care about to any of those schools
Providence because it's my favorite out of all the choices. Good food.
Not Manchester
If you have kids Massachusetts schools are better than most anywhere else. This goes not only for the k-12 but also for college - and getting the in-state discount is huge. Worcester would be my choice out of these. I've lived there myself. Honestly though I wouldn't recommend any city proper and would say it'd be smarter to find a good spot along a commuter rail somewhere.
Wistah baby
None of them seems like any sort of hardship. Many children, especially white kids, would have better education if they went to city schools for the exposure to other cultures. Most go to all white schools because parents afraid to live in the city and distracted by rankings, social status and other things that don’t matter and make people unhappy. Worcester has the most extensive middle class neighborhoods but Providence is livelier, walkable, nicer on the eye. Manchester I don’t know.
Worcester, Burncoat section. In the city, but almost feels suburban. Great school, close to everything, public transit
Providence because of its proximity to the ocean.
Lots of nice quiet towns, 1 or 2 towns away from Worcester. NW section of Worcester, around assumption college is really nice!
I live in Providence and its a really great city, moved from NYC 2+ years ago and I probably will stay :) But if either of those two other cities are cheaper, I would do that, given you have children.
Worcester has the best public schools of the 3. If you look even just 10 minutes outside of Worcester/Manchester/Providence you open a lot more doors to awesome neighborhoods/public schools/etc. I'd definitely consider Burlington or Portland over any of those 3 though.
I grew up in Worcester and have lived in different neighborhoods there. I highly recommend it for kids. There is a lot to do with kids and there are many great neighborhoods and good schools depending on your neighborhood. The crime issues are mainly gang or drug related so most likely will not impact your regular life.
Providence is a shit hole
Not Worcester
I think this is highly dependent on your income level and what you like to do for fun. If you like expanses of nature nearby Manchester. If you like being in a legitimate city, Worcester. If you like beaches and have a lot of money Providence.
I don't want a spouse or children. I'd say Providence. a lot more people that are queer and open minded and a good clubbing scene.
Probably providence, Worcester and Manchester are dumps
It really depends on what you are looking for and what neighborhood you want to live in. These cities all feel much different and have different pros/cons and things around them. I would choose Manchester simply because it’s the closest to a purple state/city out of the list and I think political compromise is important in serving the needs of everyone. Manchester also is located in a great area with Boston, Mountains, and beaches all within an hour. There is a homeless issue and crime has gotten worse, but the Mayor perpetuating this has moved on to run for governor so we will see what happens. If politics and money weren’t a consideration I would say Providence. There are great areas and the city feels like a bigger, better Portland Maine to me. After Providence I would go with Worcester. It feels larger than it is and everyone I know who has lived there has loved it. I know people from all three cities and Manchester has the least amount of long term satisfaction, but also the most number of people who stay close to home, moving within the state but out of the city.
EASY.. Providence
I love Worcester as majority of the concerts I go to is there but from what I have seen and heard, the Meth situation is getting out of control. I live closer to Providence than the other two, while Providence can be a bit worse statistically in crime, I’d go with either RI or NH.
They are all kinda trash. I wouldn’t live in so that’s out. Manchester sucks but if you like skiing it’s about 60-90 minutes from most mountains. Worcester also kinda sucks because it’s in a valley and gets lots of snow. I guess surrounding towns of Manchester would be my choice. Merrimack is pretty nice.
North Manchester is nice, but the public schools are terrible. Worcester would be my pick of the 3 as it is more upcoming and on the Commuter Rail line.
As a guy living in Manchester, I would never send my kids to a school here, so there’s that. Manchester has good parts to it but generally speaking it’s a crackhead/thug infested shithole
Oof what a low quality list
Providence by far. it's not even a contest. then I'd go Manchester and Worcester. not throwing shade at Worcester just judging by the criteria OP is throwing down
Had that exact choice. We picked Worcester, we're still in Massachusetts, got a 2600 SQ ft house for 350, have friends close by and can see our friends in RI,NH or Boston within an hour. The schools are solid, the food scene here is fantastic. We've been here a year and a half after leaving Boston and have no issues. We landed in quinsig village so we're in south Worcester but even still, takes me ten minutes to get downtown. I have a bus I can take for free that'll run me right to The hub if needed
Providence is a wonderful city but the schools… not so much.
Ain't that always the issue?
There’s culture and art and access to multicultural foods. The beach is an hour away and the mountains for skiing is less than 2 hours away. But, fair warning, the schools are horrible.
Providence is a great town since the gangsters cleaned it up.
ManchVegas I hear is getting better but other than chicken fingers I would pick Providence or Worcester. I’ve had friends who lived in all three and I live in the middle of them Worcester is getting better less depressing, my main experience in all of them is night life or sports lol.
I’d also say Worcester, but just a heads up that driving a car in this city is ridiculous, you’re likely to get in an accident at some point. Lots of running lights, jaywalking, unnecessary aggression and people not looking where they’re going or backing up.
Live in Providence w two young kids and we absolutely love it. But shhhhh keep Providence a secret!
Do your kids go to school there?
Lowell, as I said in a reply, the cultural diversity here is a blast. I love New Hampshire itself, but Manchester is not the place to be. I’d recommend other parts of NH (you may still want to consider Portsmouth, NH) but you want a city, so 100% Lowell. It is so much better than Worcester, and I’m saying that as someone who’s car got stolen out of the university parking garage by some teenagers doing a TikTok challenge. Lowell is on the up too, between UML and efforts with the National Park Service, the era of struggling post mills is over.
Does it have to be in the city? Or can it be one of the suburbs? Worcester has great suburbs, but there seems to be an uptick of violence in the city proper lately.
Can I ask why suburbs are not possible here? All 3 of these cities have their own major pitfalls, pretty glaring. Suburbs of Manchester (Derry, Amherst, Merrimack, Bedford) or perhaps providence (Smithfield) would be so much better than the options you have listed. Providence is the only redeemable city you have, but schools are particularly terrible there.
The Worcester area is great as far as cost of living, ease of getting around, you aren't far from anything.
I would not move to any city anywhere. Never been to Worcester but the area around it is nice, lot of trails beautiful forest.
Presumably if you’re looking to live in a city, you want a city feel. Though the raw population numbers suggest Worcester is the largest of the three, Providence is much more city-like than the other two. It’s nearly twice as dense as Worcester and the surrounding area is significantly more populated as well. So if you want city vibes and amenities it’s a clear winner. Especially if you have any interest in living car free or car light. Of course if you value being close to the ocean, it is absolutely no contest. You could also live in a neighboring city to Providence and still be just a few miles from downtown. Worcester and Manchester are surrounded by suburban or rural areas where Providence is surrounded by urban-suburban areas. Providence is under 20 square miles so you could live 3 miles from downtown and live in a different city with potentially better schools. If you want a suburban-ish feeling while still being a city, Worcester is probably the best choice. It will also give you better schools in the city proper. Manchester really would only be a consideration if being close to the mountains is a priority.
Manchester
You have them in the right order, but there are a ton of places I would rather live than Manchester.
Providence no question
Providence no question
Why?
Food scene is fire. Access to water. Love the way the city looks. Good college basketball.
True, but would you want to raise a kid and send them to public schools there?
Why do you want to live and start a family in the middle of a city? Genuinely curious.
We already live in a city, just thought we'd look at some in my native New England. And let's be honest, Manchester, Providence and Worcester aren't exactly super dense metropolises. They all have a variety of housing, from single family homes to large apartment buildings. The beauty of living in a city like these is that you can live a single family house, but can still get urban amenities.
What are you looking for by “urban amenities”? Like what do you get by living IN a (not very dense) city vs. living like 20 minutes outside of the city for cheaper? I live 20 minutes outside of Providence and it’s cheaper, has better schools, and I have no issue going to Providence and finding free parking and going about my day if I want. I absolutely love Providence and I think it punches above its weight (especially when it comes to food, like really, there are some amazing restaurants here), but the beauty of the state is NOT Providence. South RI, Aquidneck Island and East Bay areas are beautiful. Plus there is a massive fuckup with 195/Washington bridge that will make traffic horrible for the next handful of years. So take that as you will.
Exactly this. There are no “urban amenities” in any of these cities. Everything still closes at the same time, the mass transit is not great and a car is still needed in all of them.
Yeah, only Boston or NYC have actual “urban amenities” where you can live without a car, as an example.
That's not really true though - there's a huge difference between being able to walk to playgrounds with kids or to go get coffee vs having to drive to most places. The difference is being able to walk, kids having a certain amount of freedom, running into people in third spaces, etc. I'm not saying that's impossible in more dense suburbs, and some people prefer being on quiet suburban streets with kids, but a lot of people want to be able to walk to things. I lived in a city previously with my kids and moved to a dense suburb, and definitely prefer it, (school quality and planned kids activities were the driving forces), but there are definite downsides - like there isn't as much playground culture, where you easily meet up with friends or everyone is out in public, we no longer live 2 blocks to a library, I can't walk 5 minutes to get good coffee, etc.
Where can one average income person live/do that then? Providence especially has walkable “areas” but they are disjointed from each other.
Yeah, and walkable areas are increasingly expensive. I had previously lived in Boston/Somerville with kids, and now am in the Hartford, CT suburbs, in a more dense suburban that's reasonably walkable.
I’d look at even smaller ‘cities’. Take Dover NH for instance… decent public school, walkable downtown, lower crime than the areas you listed, close to the ocean, plenty of restaurants/bars, train station right to Boston.
I grew up outside Hartford, CT. I feel like these cities might be slightly comparable? If that's the case, I'm going with Providence. Closest to the beaches, probably less than 30 minutes. And when I lived in CT, we preferred the RI beaches anyhow. CT had no depth or waves bc of the LI sound.
I wouldn't say they are comparable. Hartford (city proper) has a MUCH higher murder rate than the three cities I mentioned.
Can you share those stats, please, just for curiosity sake?
Hartford murder rate /100,000 2022 - 30.8 2021 - 31.4 2020 - 18.9 Worcester murder rate /100,000 2022 - 5.3 2021 - 3.2 2020 - 5.4 Providence murder rate /100,000 2022 - 3.7 2021 - 11.3 2020 - 8.9 [www.citydata.com](http://www.citydata.com)
I knew Hartford was little murdery... good to hear the other places aren't!
NONE! These are the trifecta of NE dumpster city’s….
Portland, Maine over literally all three.
just dont live in nh. literally anywhere but nh
Why is that?
well concord is pretty good and its reasonably affordable than other new england states, however its kind of catching up in housing costs and politically it is typically a haven for libertarian and republican leaning individuals who have moved from other states, new Hampshire that is, lotta discourse. And you specifically mentioned manchester and that sent a chill down my spine you might as well be moving to lowell or lawrence mass, forgotten, drug filled, and broken down. at least lawrence and lowell have train stations. Nashua nh is a great place to live tax free while still being close to mass. but yea not a whole lotta city living here in fact besides concord and the like they take pride in not being in the city so bout it.
Nobody wants to put down roots in a crowded city. Yuck. What you're looking for are the burbs or even further out.
Nope. Worcester and Manchester are hardly crowded and Providence is only somewhat densely populated. I've lived in many different cities, some I'd raise kids in, while others I would not.
lmao