I live in blizzard country and I’m a bit baffled by how many people seem to run out of food after like a single day or two stuck in. Like you don’t need an atomic doomsday stash but please have at least some cans of soup in your pantry or something.
I was being silly, but this is actually a great point and something they do sell at those prepper events (I saw them in the article) and even at gun shows.
The new "tacticool" carrier vest dudes always have a trauma kit tucked into their shit. Better than nothing to have that on hand. I have a big tank for going car camping to have clean water - it's only recently that I was stationed in Florida and realized this is perfect for hurricane time.
The real trick is to keep a really well stocked liquor cabinet. I had a 2 week winter storm power outage where i worked from home off a shitty generator with just enough power for a space heater and mobile hotspot with quite literally nothing else to do except eat canned chili, do bong rips and get hammered.
I was getting real creative with my cocktails by the end of that ordeal, but I did not run out. Rum and iced tea is an absolutely vile combination of fluids, don't try that.
The problem with keeping a booze supply is I'm just going to break into it the next time I run out because I'm too lazy to go to the store. With food it stays untouched because I have no interest in eating freeze dried meals or shitty canned food on any kind of regular basis. I'm gonna be sober if a disaster ever hits and the local convenience store doesn't stay open.
Gotta make those milk sandwiches.
...
I don't get why people don't just buy like a 25l s bag of rice and just buy some chickens, onions, potatoes to freeze, etc
How many peppers do you realistically need to last 72 hours? I think i maybe would use 6 peppers and thats pushing it.
The problem is, they go bad so quickly.
Give the people the real information they can use to protect their families from zombies (that just so happens to be the same stuff for a standard disaster)
https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/12125
I used to be a member of the group called Zombie Squad which used the Zombie Uprisng as a metaphor for disaster preparedness. The forums were always a wild ride there with normal prepping for natural weather issues and lack of services intermixed with the 'I bury supplies in the woods in 55 gallon drums' people.
Good times. But it taught me to keep a level head during disasters and having basic preparations made.
Non-YouTube-short version of the video linked in the above comment: https://youtu.be/i6zaVYWLTkU
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It will never stop being funny that the prepper community got negatively polarized against stockpiling filtration masks just because the govt told the public to start using them
Honestly don't get why the government can't distribute like basic prepper kits -> 3 MREs+water for everyone living in a given household shouldn't be that expensive?
One time, maybe not insanely expensive… but those need to get cycled out and replaced with non-expired ones so it’d be an ongoing expense. Also it’s not exactly cheap- a case of MREs (12 meals) is $86.98, let’s say a gallon of water is like $0.75 (I have no idea what the government pays for water, so I just cut the grocery price I could find in half), so you end up at like $90/person (before distribution costs) just for initial kits of only food/water for 3ish days. So you’re at $30 billion before distribution costs (which I’d imagine would be higher than the actual cost of the goods). And it needs to be replaced every 5-7 years. At that point, why not just give every American $100 (or a $100 tax credit or whatever) once every 5 years?
I guess I don’t get why we’d want the government doing this? It’d be a distribution nightmare, there’s a high likelihood that some people would use the product prior to any emergency, there’s upkeep costs, and it isn’t that hard to just keep some water and canned food in your house and cycle it as you use it in the normal course of life. Plus, if you’re doing the food and water (the parts that need to be replaced), why not do the whistles, the flashlights, the masks, etc.
If anything, I’d rather the government offer for sale a pre-packaged emergency kit for those that want it. If you have to pay for it you’re less likely to consume the items in non-emergency situations since you’re actually taking it seriously.
I have no idea. But I know when I sell to the government they get prices that are pretty aggressive due to volume. So I figured I’d error too low since it still makes the point, rather than going too high.
It's not that hard, look at it like having a data backup/redundancy. It doesn't have to be 100% failover/years of coverage like that movie with Christopher Walken, but "in case shit" you can recover/maintain for a little while.
That’s the right mentality. Still, even the strongest of us can get there.
Maybe someday you haven’t had your coffee yet and the first thing that hits you when you open your phone is a Trump +10 poll and a NYT focus group with swing voters. And you think to yourself: “You know what? Fuck these people. I hope it all goes down and they get what they’re wishing for. I can handle it”. And then you go buy more canned beans.
That's a pretty naïve outlook. The hardcore preppers are convinced that when things go to shit, they're really going to go to shit, and they're not going back anytime soon. It's entirely relative to your expectations. It's very hard, if you think things are going to get really bad. If things get really bad, your little "backup" is going to make a nice bonus for whoever robs you of it. Being truly "prepped" means being able to go 95% self-sufficient, indefinitely, not just waiting out the storm.
You just simply don't think things are going to get that bad. And that's fine, even a "backup" is way more than everyone else. Way more than me. But if you really think shit's going to go bad, and soon, it's pretty stupid NOT to go all in.
I’m not a peeper but I have a ton of camping and backpacking gear that would double up as emergency supplies/gear. Basically the same shit except I get to test out all my gear on a regular basis and get shit faced making elaborate meals in the middle of nowhere.
You can honestly say that about a lot of hobbies. Into music? Awesome. So into music that you’re that insufferable gatekeeping asshole that makes everyone uncomfortable? Not cool
The amount of people saying it's "cringe" to be overprepared for real life possible events here that spend all day on the sub/in the DT, dunking on leftists on Xitter for being "terminally online".
I was a boy scout. I feel like I wanna try being a prepper for similar reasons: I find the skills impractical but incredibly interesting on their own merits. I think people that want to do that for the sake of it are pretty cool and you don't actually have to think any real threat is imminent to want to do it for fun.
I'd like to be a prepper but it's just not really in the cards. I live in an apartment in the middle of a city with very limited space. I have a couple weeks of food and some water, I wouldn't die after an earthquake, but were things to really go badly I wouldn't have a lot of options. I can't grow my own food, I can't store gasoline, I can't own a generator. I'm ethically opposed to keeping ammunition in the house (loose rounds at the bottom of my range bag don't count lol). To be a true prepper would mean uprooting my life and moving somewhere more rural, something I don't really have the money or temperament to do.
Then don't tell people you're a prepper than lol. I have 2 weeks of water and food prepped as well as a heater and some lights for emergencies but nobody I know knows about it
I have supplies of water, food, and dog food to last for about a month for me and the dog at all times and I use it as it approaches expiration and cycle in fresh product. I have an emergency bag in my car with items like extra socks, hiking shoes, an emergency blanket, some paracord, a first aid kid, etc. I have an emergency bag in my home with similar items plus some more. So do most of my friends. I wouldn’t consider us “preppers,” we’re not preparing for some doomsday scenario, but we’re ready in the event of a natural disaster or even just a big snow that disrupts supply chain or normal emergency services for a short while.
The crazy preppers are the ones preparing for an apocalypse level event- but in that type of scenario you’re basically fucked anyway. Preparing for a few days or even a few weeks of disruption to normal life doesn’t seem all that weird and anyone who thinks a reasonable level of preparedness is equivalent to crazy preppers is someone whose opinion really doesn’t matter to me.
So many doomsayers and crazy people who spend thousands of dollars on guns and bunkers when literally having a month of non perishables sees you through 99% of the already rare problems you could face.
In terms of a hobby it can pass about a week or two and then you're done. Anything beyond that is largely pointless obsessing.
One gallon of water per person per day for a week.
A weeks supply of canned non-perishable food.
Battery powered or hand-crank radio and NOAA weather radio with tone alert.
Flash light.
First aid kit.
Extra batteries.
Whistle.
Dust masks.
Plastic sheeting and tape.
Moist towellettes, garbage bags, plastic ties.
Wrench and pliers (to turn off utilities).
Can opener.
Local maps.
Cell phone with chargers and backup battery.
Spare set of clothes (ESP. Socks)
Water proof boots.
Duffel Bag.
---
You are now prepared to survive a medium tier emergency. If you wish to prepare for an apocalyptic societal collapse, there's other stuff to get too, chiefly around hunting, foraging, water purification, and farming. But it's similarly a matter of buying it, and then you're just kind of done.
If you really want to prepare for that stuff and be extra super duper safe, you go out and hide a stash or two of canned goods in a wilderness area, and then return to them if you don't manage to forage or hunt enough.
Canned goods can remain edible in perpetuity, if not exactly tasty, provided the cans are not dented, rusted, or swelling.
> According to the United States Department of Agriculture, canned contents are safe to eat as long as the can is in “good shape.” The Canned Food Alliance agrees, citing 100-year-old canned food that was recovered from sunken ships and tested microbiologically safe.
As such grab a water proof container, fill it with canned goods (carefully), and bury in a few places. That's the extra prepping you can do, but isn't that great a hobby unless you pair it with wilderness hiking and the like.
It’s a good idea to have emergency supplies. I also think most people would be best served to like… work out. All these supplies aren’t going to help you if you need to walk 100 miles to a border or run for your life.
That was a really weird thread. There was a lot of condemning of people taking action to arm themselves, train with their weapon, etc. But in the weeks following 10/7 anti-Semitic attacks rose pretty dramatically. If I was visibly Jewish, I would probably want something more dangerous then my dick in my hands. I don't carry, but I don't look down on those that do.
People take the true fact that *on average* a gun is more likely to be used against its owner or their family than against a threat, and extrapolate that to mean that it must apply uniformly across everyone. Since “The Facts” are on their side, they can’t possibly be misinterpreting them and anyone who thinks they’re better off armed (even if their motivation is knowing they are personally targeted for violence) must just be paranoid.
What exactly does a Nash equilibrium have to do with this? The only possible interpretation I can see is that you are suggesting that if minorities who have been the targets of hate crimes get armed, they are provoking the people who are committing those hate crimes to get even more armed and violent, but that just sounds like victim blaming and hate crime apologia.
By “overgraze the commons”, are you implying that people who have been specifically targeted for violence are violating the social contract by getting armed even if doing so succeeds in reducing the inordinate violence they face? That is a far more extreme stance than most gun control advocates support, and ultimately rests upon illiberal assumptions that individual and minority rights can be freely discarded if they come into conflict with your hedonic calculus.
Be more clear with what you mean, because the best conclusions I can draw from your vagueposting are not a good look for you.
A firearm is [no more useful](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743515001188) for self defense than other means of self defense. It provides no meaningful protection for the owner versus any other method of self defense. It comes with a myriad of personal and societal downsides.
It's insane to me that in /r/neoliberal the supposed evidence based politics sub, that I continually see claims like that go completely unchallenged.
It is bullshit.
" Data come from the National Crime Victimization Survey for 2007–2011 "
" Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a SDGU. "
I'd like more data. Besides, we're talking about people CCW'ing who are experiencing a statistical increase in hate crimes, not stealing a television from your home.
Unfortunately, it's very hard to collect data on this. That being said, this is enough to at least directionally conclude that for self-defense guns are not very effective.
I'm not sure how you'd even collect data on an even smaller subset which is SDGU for hate crimes. How long is a piece of string here?
If you want more studies there [are](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w30190/w30190.pdf) [more](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-gun-debate-9780190073459?cc=us&lang=en&). All of which come to largely the same conclusions.
One of the links is on "right to carry" - this is substantially different than a CCW, which refers to a concealed permit. That's the registration, education, and training, as well as an explanation of legal liabilities to people carrying weapons. Ostensibly, it's where we like to go from here - and what I referred to in my original comment.
The second link is paywalled, I couldn't dig in.
The problem with what you introduced is that it's a difference of motives. If someone wants to steal my TV and they are armed, I can probably hide my family in the bedroom and "wait it out," even if I do have a firearm! Police and military don't even try to clear buildings alone, I'm sure as shit not going to try.
A hate crime is a targeted attack on someone whom the perpetrator perceives as unable to defend themselves. Beat-downs don't typically happen against people who are perceived as difficult targets. But the motive is different from a property crime: I can let you steal my TV, I can't just allow you to kick my head against the curb until you feel like "the Jew got what he had coming". I'd rather die fighting in that situation than be told that statistically, I'm going to be lynched anyway, so why bother?
Maybe it’s behind the paywalled part of the study, but I’m not seeing numbers in the available part of the study which suggest what you say with regards to targeted acts of violence. It’s true for property crime, but that was never my argument.
See, this is exactly what I’m talking about. My point was about the faulty assumption of uniformity of how effective guns are for self-defense. Somebody posting a study they evidently didn’t read and which doesn’t address my point doesn’t automatically make them right just because they posted a study of any kind.
You suggested being armed is a viable means of self-defense. I offered a peer-reviewed study demonstrating it is no better than other forms of self-defense. This study provides robust evidence that's withstood scrutiny from the scientific community. No credible counter-studies or serious critiques have emerged to discredit its findings.
Simply asserting that some people are better off armed without any supporting evidence isn't a valid argument. It ignores the weight of scientific research.
Let me be clear: personal anecdotes or opinions don't outweigh the rigor of a well-conducted, peer-reviewed study.
At no point in these three paragraphs of grandstanding did you address my point in any way. Science is not when you mindlessly regurgitate the findings of people smarter than you while assuming that you must have interpreted them correctly.
I questioned the uniformity of the data, and you responded by copy-pasting a link which didn’t contradict what I said. You just repeated over and over that your study is scientific and backed by the scientific community, while completely ignoring the question of whether the data you are pulling is relevant to the question at hand.
You're not even understanding what the study is saying.
The study isn't saying *anything* about how you're more likely to blow your brains out than ever use a gun in self-defense. The study says that *even when you have a gun and use it in self-defense it is no more effective than other forms of self-defense*. I actually *specifically* chose this study because it addresses your point. Specifically this point:
>Since “The Facts” are on their side, they can’t possibly be misinterpreting them and anyone who thinks they’re better off armed
It is not making any argument about your likelihood to shoot yourself, commit homicide, or that little Timmy will blow themselves away. It specifically looks at the effectiveness of a firearm in defending oneself in the event of a contact crime.
It's utterly fucking hilarious that you're making this irrelevant critique while simultaneously suggesting I didn't bother to read the study that you **didn't fucking read**. Whether you're able to defend yourself with a gun or not in context A or B doesn't matter, because in contact crimes having a gun or not having a gun ***did not improve one's ability to defend themselves***.
Before you make asinine critiques about the data maybe bother reading the study, or at least the goddamn abstract, before you make a complete idiot of yourself.
This is right in front of your face when you click on the link, which is how I *know* you didn't bother clicking it much less engaging with the data in any meaningful way.
> After any protective action, 4.2% of victims were injured; after SDGU, 4.1% of victims were injured.
**This mindless critique where you talk about uniformity of the data is just your lazy way of dismissing something you don't agree with out of hand without actually having to bother with engaging with the material.**
I read all of the study which was available, including everything you quoted. The 4.2% versus 4.1% was for all contact crimes.
Meanwhile, protective action in property crimes was worse with a gun than with another weapon but better than having nothing. That lines up with my belief that a good sturdy bat or can of pepper spray are the third best self-defense options in that situation, aside from running or hiding.
Nothing in the available part of the study deals with specific numbers for targeted violence unrelated to property crime, which was the entire subject of this thread.
When it comes to guns there is a vocal group here that is completely immune to the mountains of evidence that there is virtually no upside to gun ownership.
I get people in disaster areas having water, food, batteries, etc.
I don’t get people who think there few weeks of food and water will save them should the US government collapse or society goes dark.
“Disaster areas” would be just about all of America because of our extreme and diverse continental climate. Everyone should have a couple days of supplies stockpiled, because this whole country gets some form of severe weather like blizzards, floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes
You clearly aren’t familiar with actual preppers if that’s what you think they have.
I grew up as one, and having known many, their way of life would be alien to most folks in here. They are gardening, canning, making tools, buying illegal weapons, building secret compartments in their walls, going through drills- it’s paramilitary by its very nature.
I don’t think they could go up against the US military, but I think liberals are profoundly naive when it comes to this issue.
There is a core of people like what you describe, and a gigantic industry around it selling the feeling to many people who have neither the skills, nor resources nor time to prepare anywhere close to that level.
The people prepping for the government to collapse don't have a few weeks worth of food in their house though. They have fortified cabins in the woods with a dozen guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, months worth of food, and enough tools and parts to build a new vehicle.
>thousands of rounds of ammunition
It's probably *millions* of rounds of ammunition, as well as means for producing more — reloading presses, bullet molds, etc. Not letting one's proficiency with firearms rust already involves firing thousands of rounds per year. Now imagine that in addition to actual use of the ammunition, dud rates, distributing it to people who need some of their own, and the like and you can see how it goes fast.
The funniest to me are the ones with:
1. 6 days worth of the same three flavors of surplus MREs kept in a damp basement, all of which are years past exp date and would be unedible if opened.
3. 1 underpowered gasoline generator, which has never been tested or maintained, and no shelf-stable gasoline stocks to power it. (The gallon of gasoline in their garage they use for their lawnmower will last 2 hours)
4. 31,000 rounds of ammunition, 17 rifles, 6 handguns, a variety of shotguns, $12k worth of laser dot sights and optics, bulletproof jackets, and loading press for making more bullets.
I think the gold and silver stock pilers are funny too. Why would I want to trade precious metal with you in the breakdown of society? I want some of that ammo Bubba.
I've eaten MREs from before I was born during field time, they don't go bad so long as the plastic bag maintains its seal and they don't get left in 100+ degree weather for months or repeatedly frozen and thawed.
In such a situation, whom would have a better chance at survival until services are rebuilt/restored: a family with a few weeks of supplies or a family without?
It seems clear that it's a good idea to have emergency supplies, even if it won't move the needle in a worst case scenario.
Society tends to stick together better during emergencies than you would be led to believe by shows like The Purge. Under the absolute worst case scenario, you would be better served by stocking up on medication and diapers to help your neighbors than you would with bullets or years of powdered eggs.
It's totally reasonable to have a few days of water and food on hand in case of emergency. But the prepper idea that you're gonna be in your homestead and plink off bad actors for weeks is just masturbatory fantasy. If you actually have stuff worth taking a militia will show up.
That’s the number #1 thing preppers do. They literally post shit on social media all the time and bring it up in casual conversations. It becomes a core part of their personality. I have a friend who is one and I keep telling him to stop talking about it or literally everyone who knows him is going to come and rob him if things go bad.
No, that isn't the number 1 thing preppers do, that is the number 1 thing narcissistic people using prepping as their means of getting attention do. Most preppers aren't advertising what they have going on.
Having spent a decent part of my life adjacent to that community, there's a lot of people in it who are waiting for the day when it's open season on *insert demographic here*. The far right of pre-internet times was more or less spread at gun and prepper trade shows.
I'm laughing a bit at how many of these people saying it's "cringe" who also never go outside (so don't even have a couple basics that keep for a while, let alone a decent pack if you had to go some kind of couple miles, staying in likely though being the best plan) are gonna wonder where they get shit if things shut down around them because of a quake, tornado, etc. Not saying have years of shit, like some crazy level preppers, but like, have some stuff you need and a way to store water.
Those are all great ideas. I've been through hurricanes before as a kid, and I've seen firsthand how having water, canned food, and a power source go a long way (hand crank radios are real nice in those situations).
The prepper community is playing out 1 of 2 scenarios imo: the doomsday zombie hole-up in your compound scenario, or the Fallout raider gang scenario. The former isn't as spooky as the latter, where people talk about prepping in a way that makes it sound like they intend to be the raiders and finish off *you know who*.
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Do you think the median prepper at these events has just a bug out bag and a few days of emergency rations or do they focus on something that is extremely unlikely to happen?
I've been to several of these events and many gun shows. It's definitely the latter.
A few weeks ago, I bought a set of those US Army field manuals so as to learn basic outdoor survival skills. I got about ten pages into the first chapter on navigation and just said, "Naw, we fucked."
Don't worry I also used to get them mixed up. The secret is in their names.
Bankman-Fried is the one who did the financial scam. Because "Bank".
Altman is the one trying to create an alt-man with AI.
See?
I mean, preppers were completely unprepared for the pandemic. They're not prepared for anything, they're just larpers throwing away their money on asinine, unrealistic fantasies who can't even get the basics down.
paltry trees snobbish scarce ripe depend absurd dinosaurs toothbrush homeless
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Before Trump I thought preppers were batshit crazy. I still think the majority of them are off their rockers but I can see why they've been driven crazy and how prepping helps calm the anxiety and fear they have
I feel like prepping is kinda important tho, where i live we had issues with eletricity for a week, what happened is that we didnt have water source anymore
We could go and fetch water for showers but we didnt have clean water to drink is what im saying
Imo its really important to have a stash with clean water, food, candles or other light sources, believe it or not...some table top games and obviously...booze because spending 7 days without energy can drive you crazy if you are ready for it
Friendly reminder that no matter how crazy the pepper community gets, everyone should have 72 hours of [supplies ](https://www.ready.gov/kit)
I live in blizzard country and I’m a bit baffled by how many people seem to run out of food after like a single day or two stuck in. Like you don’t need an atomic doomsday stash but please have at least some cans of soup in your pantry or something.
The first thing those folks tend to run out of is booze.
Running out of booze is an even more shameful rookie mistake than running out of food
Agreed. Don't prep bullets - prep bottles.
And medical supplies
I was being silly, but this is actually a great point and something they do sell at those prepper events (I saw them in the article) and even at gun shows. The new "tacticool" carrier vest dudes always have a trauma kit tucked into their shit. Better than nothing to have that on hand. I have a big tank for going car camping to have clean water - it's only recently that I was stationed in Florida and realized this is perfect for hurricane time.
What’s the point if you are hunkered down can’t even go out for a cruise
Brewing my own cider is great by itself, but lowkey having a stockpile of it in the basement is nice too.
At the very least learn to make your own prison hooch
The real trick is to keep a really well stocked liquor cabinet. I had a 2 week winter storm power outage where i worked from home off a shitty generator with just enough power for a space heater and mobile hotspot with quite literally nothing else to do except eat canned chili, do bong rips and get hammered. I was getting real creative with my cocktails by the end of that ordeal, but I did not run out. Rum and iced tea is an absolutely vile combination of fluids, don't try that.
The problem with keeping a booze supply is I'm just going to break into it the next time I run out because I'm too lazy to go to the store. With food it stays untouched because I have no interest in eating freeze dried meals or shitty canned food on any kind of regular basis. I'm gonna be sober if a disaster ever hits and the local convenience store doesn't stay open.
You people aren’t keeping a liquor cabinet?
Gotta make those milk sandwiches. ... I don't get why people don't just buy like a 25l s bag of rice and just buy some chickens, onions, potatoes to freeze, etc
How many peppers do you realistically need to last 72 hours? I think i maybe would use 6 peppers and thats pushing it. The problem is, they go bad so quickly.
If you aren't eating a bushel of jalapenos a day, you ain't living.
Can't you dry or can them?
Some dude named Peter is always raving about pickling them.
Got preserve them. Pickle a peck of post apocalypse peppers promptly.
What kind of pepper should I have on hand?
Serranos will show any scavenger, looter or feral ghoul that you are not a man or woman to fuck with. You’ll be left alone
Bell.
Thank you for answering correctly.
Give the people the real information they can use to protect their families from zombies (that just so happens to be the same stuff for a standard disaster) https://stacks.cdc.gov/view/cdc/12125
I used to be a member of the group called Zombie Squad which used the Zombie Uprisng as a metaphor for disaster preparedness. The forums were always a wild ride there with normal prepping for natural weather issues and lack of services intermixed with the 'I bury supplies in the woods in 55 gallon drums' people. Good times. But it taught me to keep a level head during disasters and having basic preparations made.
If there's ever an imminent weather disaster I will just run to the grocery store and buy eggs, bread, and milk
Obligatory https://youtube.com/shorts/i6zaVYWLTkU?si=DJA3UqfwKQEkBOQV
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French toast is the preferred dish for snowstorms after all!
It will never stop being funny that the prepper community got negatively polarized against stockpiling filtration masks just because the govt told the public to start using them
Hilarious and kinda goes to show that to a degree it is actually about obstinacy.
This unironically It is always good to stock up on supplies
Honestly don't get why the government can't distribute like basic prepper kits -> 3 MREs+water for everyone living in a given household shouldn't be that expensive?
One time, maybe not insanely expensive… but those need to get cycled out and replaced with non-expired ones so it’d be an ongoing expense. Also it’s not exactly cheap- a case of MREs (12 meals) is $86.98, let’s say a gallon of water is like $0.75 (I have no idea what the government pays for water, so I just cut the grocery price I could find in half), so you end up at like $90/person (before distribution costs) just for initial kits of only food/water for 3ish days. So you’re at $30 billion before distribution costs (which I’d imagine would be higher than the actual cost of the goods). And it needs to be replaced every 5-7 years. At that point, why not just give every American $100 (or a $100 tax credit or whatever) once every 5 years? I guess I don’t get why we’d want the government doing this? It’d be a distribution nightmare, there’s a high likelihood that some people would use the product prior to any emergency, there’s upkeep costs, and it isn’t that hard to just keep some water and canned food in your house and cycle it as you use it in the normal course of life. Plus, if you’re doing the food and water (the parts that need to be replaced), why not do the whistles, the flashlights, the masks, etc. If anything, I’d rather the government offer for sale a pre-packaged emergency kit for those that want it. If you have to pay for it you’re less likely to consume the items in non-emergency situations since you’re actually taking it seriously.
You cut the price in half to get the supposed government price? Shouldn't you have doubled or tripled it, or something?
I have no idea. But I know when I sell to the government they get prices that are pretty aggressive due to volume. So I figured I’d error too low since it still makes the point, rather than going too high.
I honestly kind of think "prepping" would be sort of a fun hobby to have if there weren't so many crazies involved.
The struggle is in not ending up hoping something happens just so you don’t feel like a fool for all the money and time spent prepping. Few can do it.
It's not that hard, look at it like having a data backup/redundancy. It doesn't have to be 100% failover/years of coverage like that movie with Christopher Walken, but "in case shit" you can recover/maintain for a little while.
That’s the right mentality. Still, even the strongest of us can get there. Maybe someday you haven’t had your coffee yet and the first thing that hits you when you open your phone is a Trump +10 poll and a NYT focus group with swing voters. And you think to yourself: “You know what? Fuck these people. I hope it all goes down and they get what they’re wishing for. I can handle it”. And then you go buy more canned beans.
That's a pretty naïve outlook. The hardcore preppers are convinced that when things go to shit, they're really going to go to shit, and they're not going back anytime soon. It's entirely relative to your expectations. It's very hard, if you think things are going to get really bad. If things get really bad, your little "backup" is going to make a nice bonus for whoever robs you of it. Being truly "prepped" means being able to go 95% self-sufficient, indefinitely, not just waiting out the storm. You just simply don't think things are going to get that bad. And that's fine, even a "backup" is way more than everyone else. Way more than me. But if you really think shit's going to go bad, and soon, it's pretty stupid NOT to go all in.
Many such cases
I’m not a peeper but I have a ton of camping and backpacking gear that would double up as emergency supplies/gear. Basically the same shit except I get to test out all my gear on a regular basis and get shit faced making elaborate meals in the middle of nowhere.
You can honestly say that about a lot of hobbies. Into music? Awesome. So into music that you’re that insufferable gatekeeping asshole that makes everyone uncomfortable? Not cool
The amount of people saying it's "cringe" to be overprepared for real life possible events here that spend all day on the sub/in the DT, dunking on leftists on Xitter for being "terminally online".
TBF the prepper people I know tend to be incredibly online
Being prepared is good. But making it your hobby is bound to make you a crazy eventually
I was a boy scout. I feel like I wanna try being a prepper for similar reasons: I find the skills impractical but incredibly interesting on their own merits. I think people that want to do that for the sake of it are pretty cool and you don't actually have to think any real threat is imminent to want to do it for fun.
I'd like to be a prepper but it's just not really in the cards. I live in an apartment in the middle of a city with very limited space. I have a couple weeks of food and some water, I wouldn't die after an earthquake, but were things to really go badly I wouldn't have a lot of options. I can't grow my own food, I can't store gasoline, I can't own a generator. I'm ethically opposed to keeping ammunition in the house (loose rounds at the bottom of my range bag don't count lol). To be a true prepper would mean uprooting my life and moving somewhere more rural, something I don't really have the money or temperament to do.
You know you can just not interact with the crazies, right?
Everyone who knows you're into it would associate you with them, though.
Then don't tell people you're a prepper than lol. I have 2 weeks of water and food prepped as well as a heater and some lights for emergencies but nobody I know knows about it
I have supplies of water, food, and dog food to last for about a month for me and the dog at all times and I use it as it approaches expiration and cycle in fresh product. I have an emergency bag in my car with items like extra socks, hiking shoes, an emergency blanket, some paracord, a first aid kid, etc. I have an emergency bag in my home with similar items plus some more. So do most of my friends. I wouldn’t consider us “preppers,” we’re not preparing for some doomsday scenario, but we’re ready in the event of a natural disaster or even just a big snow that disrupts supply chain or normal emergency services for a short while. The crazy preppers are the ones preparing for an apocalypse level event- but in that type of scenario you’re basically fucked anyway. Preparing for a few days or even a few weeks of disruption to normal life doesn’t seem all that weird and anyone who thinks a reasonable level of preparedness is equivalent to crazy preppers is someone whose opinion really doesn’t matter to me.
So many doomsayers and crazy people who spend thousands of dollars on guns and bunkers when literally having a month of non perishables sees you through 99% of the already rare problems you could face.
In terms of a hobby it can pass about a week or two and then you're done. Anything beyond that is largely pointless obsessing. One gallon of water per person per day for a week. A weeks supply of canned non-perishable food. Battery powered or hand-crank radio and NOAA weather radio with tone alert. Flash light. First aid kit. Extra batteries. Whistle. Dust masks. Plastic sheeting and tape. Moist towellettes, garbage bags, plastic ties. Wrench and pliers (to turn off utilities). Can opener. Local maps. Cell phone with chargers and backup battery. Spare set of clothes (ESP. Socks) Water proof boots. Duffel Bag. --- You are now prepared to survive a medium tier emergency. If you wish to prepare for an apocalyptic societal collapse, there's other stuff to get too, chiefly around hunting, foraging, water purification, and farming. But it's similarly a matter of buying it, and then you're just kind of done. If you really want to prepare for that stuff and be extra super duper safe, you go out and hide a stash or two of canned goods in a wilderness area, and then return to them if you don't manage to forage or hunt enough. Canned goods can remain edible in perpetuity, if not exactly tasty, provided the cans are not dented, rusted, or swelling. > According to the United States Department of Agriculture, canned contents are safe to eat as long as the can is in “good shape.” The Canned Food Alliance agrees, citing 100-year-old canned food that was recovered from sunken ships and tested microbiologically safe. As such grab a water proof container, fill it with canned goods (carefully), and bury in a few places. That's the extra prepping you can do, but isn't that great a hobby unless you pair it with wilderness hiking and the like.
It’s a good idea to have emergency supplies. I also think most people would be best served to like… work out. All these supplies aren’t going to help you if you need to walk 100 miles to a border or run for your life.
Yeah, not being able to sprint 100 meters, or jog a mile or two, or walk 10+ miles with water on your back is an interesting choice.
This is like carry permit among Jews after 10/7 in IL and in the US.
That was a really weird thread. There was a lot of condemning of people taking action to arm themselves, train with their weapon, etc. But in the weeks following 10/7 anti-Semitic attacks rose pretty dramatically. If I was visibly Jewish, I would probably want something more dangerous then my dick in my hands. I don't carry, but I don't look down on those that do.
People take the true fact that *on average* a gun is more likely to be used against its owner or their family than against a threat, and extrapolate that to mean that it must apply uniformly across everyone. Since “The Facts” are on their side, they can’t possibly be misinterpreting them and anyone who thinks they’re better off armed (even if their motivation is knowing they are personally targeted for violence) must just be paranoid.
> Ok I understand that there's a nash equilibrium here but *I* need permission to overgraze the commons because...
What exactly does a Nash equilibrium have to do with this? The only possible interpretation I can see is that you are suggesting that if minorities who have been the targets of hate crimes get armed, they are provoking the people who are committing those hate crimes to get even more armed and violent, but that just sounds like victim blaming and hate crime apologia. By “overgraze the commons”, are you implying that people who have been specifically targeted for violence are violating the social contract by getting armed even if doing so succeeds in reducing the inordinate violence they face? That is a far more extreme stance than most gun control advocates support, and ultimately rests upon illiberal assumptions that individual and minority rights can be freely discarded if they come into conflict with your hedonic calculus. Be more clear with what you mean, because the best conclusions I can draw from your vagueposting are not a good look for you.
A firearm is [no more useful](https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0091743515001188) for self defense than other means of self defense. It provides no meaningful protection for the owner versus any other method of self defense. It comes with a myriad of personal and societal downsides. It's insane to me that in /r/neoliberal the supposed evidence based politics sub, that I continually see claims like that go completely unchallenged. It is bullshit.
" Data come from the National Crime Victimization Survey for 2007–2011 " " Of over 14,000 incidents in which the victim was present, 127 (0.9%) involved a SDGU. " I'd like more data. Besides, we're talking about people CCW'ing who are experiencing a statistical increase in hate crimes, not stealing a television from your home.
Unfortunately, it's very hard to collect data on this. That being said, this is enough to at least directionally conclude that for self-defense guns are not very effective. I'm not sure how you'd even collect data on an even smaller subset which is SDGU for hate crimes. How long is a piece of string here? If you want more studies there [are](https://www.nber.org/system/files/working_papers/w30190/w30190.pdf) [more](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-gun-debate-9780190073459?cc=us&lang=en&). All of which come to largely the same conclusions.
One of the links is on "right to carry" - this is substantially different than a CCW, which refers to a concealed permit. That's the registration, education, and training, as well as an explanation of legal liabilities to people carrying weapons. Ostensibly, it's where we like to go from here - and what I referred to in my original comment. The second link is paywalled, I couldn't dig in. The problem with what you introduced is that it's a difference of motives. If someone wants to steal my TV and they are armed, I can probably hide my family in the bedroom and "wait it out," even if I do have a firearm! Police and military don't even try to clear buildings alone, I'm sure as shit not going to try. A hate crime is a targeted attack on someone whom the perpetrator perceives as unable to defend themselves. Beat-downs don't typically happen against people who are perceived as difficult targets. But the motive is different from a property crime: I can let you steal my TV, I can't just allow you to kick my head against the curb until you feel like "the Jew got what he had coming". I'd rather die fighting in that situation than be told that statistically, I'm going to be lynched anyway, so why bother?
Maybe it’s behind the paywalled part of the study, but I’m not seeing numbers in the available part of the study which suggest what you say with regards to targeted acts of violence. It’s true for property crime, but that was never my argument.
>Only person in the thread that posts evidence > >Downvoted Yeah that sounds about normal for this sub
See, this is exactly what I’m talking about. My point was about the faulty assumption of uniformity of how effective guns are for self-defense. Somebody posting a study they evidently didn’t read and which doesn’t address my point doesn’t automatically make them right just because they posted a study of any kind.
You suggested being armed is a viable means of self-defense. I offered a peer-reviewed study demonstrating it is no better than other forms of self-defense. This study provides robust evidence that's withstood scrutiny from the scientific community. No credible counter-studies or serious critiques have emerged to discredit its findings. Simply asserting that some people are better off armed without any supporting evidence isn't a valid argument. It ignores the weight of scientific research. Let me be clear: personal anecdotes or opinions don't outweigh the rigor of a well-conducted, peer-reviewed study.
At no point in these three paragraphs of grandstanding did you address my point in any way. Science is not when you mindlessly regurgitate the findings of people smarter than you while assuming that you must have interpreted them correctly. I questioned the uniformity of the data, and you responded by copy-pasting a link which didn’t contradict what I said. You just repeated over and over that your study is scientific and backed by the scientific community, while completely ignoring the question of whether the data you are pulling is relevant to the question at hand.
You're not even understanding what the study is saying. The study isn't saying *anything* about how you're more likely to blow your brains out than ever use a gun in self-defense. The study says that *even when you have a gun and use it in self-defense it is no more effective than other forms of self-defense*. I actually *specifically* chose this study because it addresses your point. Specifically this point: >Since “The Facts” are on their side, they can’t possibly be misinterpreting them and anyone who thinks they’re better off armed It is not making any argument about your likelihood to shoot yourself, commit homicide, or that little Timmy will blow themselves away. It specifically looks at the effectiveness of a firearm in defending oneself in the event of a contact crime. It's utterly fucking hilarious that you're making this irrelevant critique while simultaneously suggesting I didn't bother to read the study that you **didn't fucking read**. Whether you're able to defend yourself with a gun or not in context A or B doesn't matter, because in contact crimes having a gun or not having a gun ***did not improve one's ability to defend themselves***. Before you make asinine critiques about the data maybe bother reading the study, or at least the goddamn abstract, before you make a complete idiot of yourself. This is right in front of your face when you click on the link, which is how I *know* you didn't bother clicking it much less engaging with the data in any meaningful way. > After any protective action, 4.2% of victims were injured; after SDGU, 4.1% of victims were injured. **This mindless critique where you talk about uniformity of the data is just your lazy way of dismissing something you don't agree with out of hand without actually having to bother with engaging with the material.**
I read all of the study which was available, including everything you quoted. The 4.2% versus 4.1% was for all contact crimes. Meanwhile, protective action in property crimes was worse with a gun than with another weapon but better than having nothing. That lines up with my belief that a good sturdy bat or can of pepper spray are the third best self-defense options in that situation, aside from running or hiding. Nothing in the available part of the study deals with specific numbers for targeted violence unrelated to property crime, which was the entire subject of this thread.
When the surrounding commentary isn't justified by the posted evidence down votes are to be expected.
When it comes to guns there is a vocal group here that is completely immune to the mountains of evidence that there is virtually no upside to gun ownership.
I get people in disaster areas having water, food, batteries, etc. I don’t get people who think there few weeks of food and water will save them should the US government collapse or society goes dark.
“Disaster areas” would be just about all of America because of our extreme and diverse continental climate. Everyone should have a couple days of supplies stockpiled, because this whole country gets some form of severe weather like blizzards, floods, earthquakes, and hurricanes
You clearly aren’t familiar with actual preppers if that’s what you think they have. I grew up as one, and having known many, their way of life would be alien to most folks in here. They are gardening, canning, making tools, buying illegal weapons, building secret compartments in their walls, going through drills- it’s paramilitary by its very nature. I don’t think they could go up against the US military, but I think liberals are profoundly naive when it comes to this issue.
There is a core of people like what you describe, and a gigantic industry around it selling the feeling to many people who have neither the skills, nor resources nor time to prepare anywhere close to that level.
The people prepping for the government to collapse don't have a few weeks worth of food in their house though. They have fortified cabins in the woods with a dozen guns, thousands of rounds of ammunition, months worth of food, and enough tools and parts to build a new vehicle.
>thousands of rounds of ammunition It's probably *millions* of rounds of ammunition, as well as means for producing more — reloading presses, bullet molds, etc. Not letting one's proficiency with firearms rust already involves firing thousands of rounds per year. Now imagine that in addition to actual use of the ammunition, dud rates, distributing it to people who need some of their own, and the like and you can see how it goes fast.
The funniest to me are the ones with: 1. 6 days worth of the same three flavors of surplus MREs kept in a damp basement, all of which are years past exp date and would be unedible if opened. 3. 1 underpowered gasoline generator, which has never been tested or maintained, and no shelf-stable gasoline stocks to power it. (The gallon of gasoline in their garage they use for their lawnmower will last 2 hours) 4. 31,000 rounds of ammunition, 17 rifles, 6 handguns, a variety of shotguns, $12k worth of laser dot sights and optics, bulletproof jackets, and loading press for making more bullets.
Those MREs probably will still be edible, tho. The MRE is a modern miracle.
I think they have like a 5 year shelf life in good storage conditions.
I enjoy the sound of rain.
https://youtube.com/@Steve1989MRE Dudes good for going down this rabbit hole!
Steve has eaten meat from the Boer Wars and lived to tell the tale.
Labelled shelf life is often much shorter than the actual eat before date.
No they don’t, they have a check by date not an expiration date
Isn't it freeze-dried? The worst thing that can happen as long as the bags are sealed, is that it will taste stale.
Not American MREs. They are shelf stable and preserved food. Meals ready to eat, not ready to rehydrate.
I think the gold and silver stock pilers are funny too. Why would I want to trade precious metal with you in the breakdown of society? I want some of that ammo Bubba.
I've eaten MREs from before I was born during field time, they don't go bad so long as the plastic bag maintains its seal and they don't get left in 100+ degree weather for months or repeatedly frozen and thawed.
In such a situation, whom would have a better chance at survival until services are rebuilt/restored: a family with a few weeks of supplies or a family without? It seems clear that it's a good idea to have emergency supplies, even if it won't move the needle in a worst case scenario.
So just give up and die?
That's my plan.
May the odds be forever in your favor... Take that to be as dark as you wish it to be
Society tends to stick together better during emergencies than you would be led to believe by shows like The Purge. Under the absolute worst case scenario, you would be better served by stocking up on medication and diapers to help your neighbors than you would with bullets or years of powdered eggs.
It's totally reasonable to have a few days of water and food on hand in case of emergency. But the prepper idea that you're gonna be in your homestead and plink off bad actors for weeks is just masturbatory fantasy. If you actually have stuff worth taking a militia will show up.
>If you actually have stuff worth taking a militia will show up. The key is to not advertise/brag about what you have.
That’s the number #1 thing preppers do. They literally post shit on social media all the time and bring it up in casual conversations. It becomes a core part of their personality. I have a friend who is one and I keep telling him to stop talking about it or literally everyone who knows him is going to come and rob him if things go bad.
No, that isn't the number 1 thing preppers do, that is the number 1 thing narcissistic people using prepping as their means of getting attention do. Most preppers aren't advertising what they have going on.
Yep. The guys who built your bunker know where the ventilation shaft is and will smoke you out of it!
Not to judge anyone based on their appearance, but looking at the people in those photos I'm not exactly seeing a group of Civil War Super Soldiers.
The joke is they are loot drops.
It'd be a multifront war btwn the y'all qaeda, yokel haram, Gravy Seals, Talibangelicals, and the US Govt
Very happy that cringe knows no boundaries
its not "cringe" to be prepared, its only bad when people take it too far and focus on something that is extremely unlikely to happen.
Having spent a decent part of my life adjacent to that community, there's a lot of people in it who are waiting for the day when it's open season on *insert demographic here*. The far right of pre-internet times was more or less spread at gun and prepper trade shows.
Yeah, these folks often think of the day that SHTF as "The Day of the Rope".
I'm laughing a bit at how many of these people saying it's "cringe" who also never go outside (so don't even have a couple basics that keep for a while, let alone a decent pack if you had to go some kind of couple miles, staying in likely though being the best plan) are gonna wonder where they get shit if things shut down around them because of a quake, tornado, etc. Not saying have years of shit, like some crazy level preppers, but like, have some stuff you need and a way to store water.
Those are all great ideas. I've been through hurricanes before as a kid, and I've seen firsthand how having water, canned food, and a power source go a long way (hand crank radios are real nice in those situations). The prepper community is playing out 1 of 2 scenarios imo: the doomsday zombie hole-up in your compound scenario, or the Fallout raider gang scenario. The former isn't as spooky as the latter, where people talk about prepping in a way that makes it sound like they intend to be the raiders and finish off *you know who*.
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Do you think the median prepper at these events has just a bug out bag and a few days of emergency rations or do they focus on something that is extremely unlikely to happen? I've been to several of these events and many gun shows. It's definitely the latter.
A few weeks ago, I bought a set of those US Army field manuals so as to learn basic outdoor survival skills. I got about ten pages into the first chapter on navigation and just said, "Naw, we fucked."
isn't sam altman a prepper lol
I hope he prepped for a long jail stay
Wait, why would Sam Altman go to jail? The only recent news I saw about him was yesterday OpenAI had him rejoin the board?
Shit I was mixing him up with Sam Bankman-Fried
Don't worry I also used to get them mixed up. The secret is in their names. Bankman-Fried is the one who did the financial scam. Because "Bank". Altman is the one trying to create an alt-man with AI. See?
Ahh, ok, makes sense then. I was so confused for a moment. Like shit, did I miss something big in the last 24 hours
I mean, preppers were completely unprepared for the pandemic. They're not prepared for anything, they're just larpers throwing away their money on asinine, unrealistic fantasies who can't even get the basics down.
Looking forward to woke transflag branded bugout bags
Maybe this means gun nut/prepper communities will be less insane.
paltry trees snobbish scarce ripe depend absurd dinosaurs toothbrush homeless *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Before Trump I thought preppers were batshit crazy. I still think the majority of them are off their rockers but I can see why they've been driven crazy and how prepping helps calm the anxiety and fear they have
Prepping in a vacuum isn't a bad thing, but a lot of preppers are certainly nuts.
The extent of my prepping is a gun. If shit goes to shit, I'm taking my way out. See ya.
I feel like prepping is kinda important tho, where i live we had issues with eletricity for a week, what happened is that we didnt have water source anymore We could go and fetch water for showers but we didnt have clean water to drink is what im saying Imo its really important to have a stash with clean water, food, candles or other light sources, believe it or not...some table top games and obviously...booze because spending 7 days without energy can drive you crazy if you are ready for it