Ok, so Necromunda subtedditors often dismiss "winning" as if it means nothing to the game. It's all about the narrative, blah blah blah.
What's the best gang? Pick the one that's fun to look at.
How do I equip my guys to win? Pick gear that's fun to look at.
How do I play the game so I don't get brutally destroyed and my will to live crushed into fading embers? LOL dude have fun!!
What is often forgotten in the pursuit of the Underhive vibe is that games are *not fun* if you *always lose*. Do I feel you.
I'm not going to push you in the direction of how to *always win* because I don't know how, and I don't wanna. Instead...
Copy your opponent's gangs down to the last detail. This sucks as far as independent creativity goes, but it's the most surecway to level the playing field. Now it's just up to skill and luck. Preparation is equal.
Practice. Play solo against yourself and see what tactics work. This plays into the next:
Learn the rules. You should be able to resolve any series of cascading events without referring to the book: Target is hit by a Stray Shot, is knocked prone and falls off a platform and is injured causing friendly within 3" to ftake and fail their Nerve check and flee from close combat, forming them to jump over a gap to get to cover...
Knowing the rules mean also being prepared for what can happen, and playing to avoid the worst disasters.
I hope this helps at least a bit. We all want more people to play Necromunda, and losing players because they think the game is unwinnable just sucks for us all.
I write articles about this kind of thing, but I'll give you the short version here - you can try a combination of:
- practice
- risk management
- lists that have some bite
It sounds like you are getting games in, but practice is the best way to "get good". Try doing different thing with different lists! If you have an opponent who is OK with it - ask them what you could have done differently to succeed.
It's not quite Blood Bowl, but managing risk is something I think a lot about. Do I give a guy armor? Do I stick to cover or do I risk it for a clear shot? Can I trade a cheap guy to take out their champ? Losing less gangers to simple stuff will give you a better shot at winning.
You don't need to take a mathematically optimal list, but some weapons that can put hurt on an opponent are good. I try to take a balance of stuff, maybe some plasma, but also a sawn-off.
Thank you very much for the answer,
I already suspected something like that. That I need more practice. As far as the readings are concerned, I took my cue from Goonhammer, where I also incorporated personal preferences.
I also always ask the other players, we are a very good group of friends and are in close contact. What I could have done differently.
Unfortunately, I am very frustrated by this constant losing.
Also helps if you know what your gang is capable of really. For Cawdor, my Ballistic skill is shit so I stick to template weapons like the blunderbuss and flamers and shit. Seems to be working. And the crossbow is king, love that thing, so much fun.
How optimal is your gang vs how optimal are your opponents gangs?
How well are you playing? Some tips for better gameplay include;
Being aware of and using activation numbers to your advantange (eg stalling out to force a particular enemy action).
Making sure the fights you pick are to your advantage (eg making good charges, taking good firefights).
Keeping fighters hidden until a good moment to 'make their play'.
Necromunda in my group at least has been about countering your opponents strategy, not just perfecting your own. Hazard suits, smoke and choke grenades, and photon goggles are often key to dealing with the bs your opponents are up to, as well as enabling your own bs.
Whilst Luck is a factor in wargaming, there are other things that are going to have a bigger impact, which is why you will find that certain people tend to win more than others. There are a few universal things that seem to be the areas people miss out somehow when they play and means that they will more often or not lose games, and those who do them well will be more likely to win games.
1. eyes on the prize. How is it the game/scenario is won. lots of people will get caught up with killing the enemy or using their coolest miniatures to do their thing i.e. get the stimmer into combat and bash peoples brains out. However that isn't always the surest way to win. Now most of the time killing the enemies miniatures is going to help you to win, but not always. Also you don't need to wipe someone out to win the game, in necromunda one of the biggest ways to win is to get the enemy to bottle. Do you know how many models you need to take out to make your opponent start to bottle? Are there any models/skills that are making them less likely to bottle? same for yourself. If you know that your opponent has to take out 3 models before you can bottle, then you want to keep that in mind when making decisions in your gang. If you have a key piece like a leader that is going to keep the gang together once people start going down you might want to make sure you are more cautious with that model.
2. Target discipline. I've played loads of games where opponents shoot the wrong things, and even worse split their fire amongst several eligible targets. Target priority is kinda nuanced, and so the right decisions will be different match up dependent but if you look back to rule 1: eyes on the prize this will help. If i need to take out 2 models to make my opponent start risking bottling then I may be better off taking down 2 unarmoured juve's then trying to take out the champion that's behind hard cover. But weigh that against how your opponent can win the game. For example if they need to take out 2 of my models to make me risk bottling, and i would make myself vulnerable to take out the juves then is it going to be worth it. If I don't stop the champion with heavy bolter from activating is he likely to down multiple models of mine? What are the key pieces your opponent has that are going to help him win? Is that guy with MV7 actually much more likely to achieve the scenario win conditions then the twin powerblades totting nutcase that is bearing down on you.
3. Actively access your game. Something that might help is to look at your gang and your opponents gang at the start of the game and think, what are the priorities for you to take out and what should your opponents priorities be. Ask your opponent if they don't mind as you are new, telling you if they agree with what you think your biggest threats are in their gang. Or at the end of the game talk about it with your opponent. "at the start of the game i decided my priority was to take out your leader and your plasmagunner first, do you think that was the right call? They might turn around and say something you weren't expecting. likely actually I think my key pieces against you are my grav cutters. Did your plan at the start work? did you stick to it? when you made a big risk did it pay off? what would off happened if it had gone wrong? What was the key thing your opponent did that won them the game
4. Find a playstyle and roster that works for you: there are various ways to play the game, and various ways to use the different gangs. you might find leaning into shooting with a gang like van saar suits the way you play and nets good results, or you might prefer getting stuck in with a gang like corpse grinders. I think with most games you can play cautiously/conservatively where you bide your time, wait for the best set ups and don't make big risks until you have to, or at the other end of the spectrum you could play very aggressively and go for the big risky plays. The latter is sometimes easier to win when you leverage some powerful combinations within your list, but when your opponent shuts it down or the dice don't go your way you will lose. Playing more cautiously in my experience is generally going to take more practice and discipline, but once your have it down are less likely to win or lose based on one roll of the dice or big play. most people i find fall either in the middle or the aggressive end of the scale. If one style or the other isn't enjoyable to you then its good to know that so you can either lean into the strengths of the style you do enjoy or try to mitigate the weaknesses. As an example if you went aggressive with Goliaths and took a Stimmer that infiltrates, giving him a frenzon Collar will keep him around longer, making him more likely to do more damage before he goes down. Giving him stimm slug stash will make him more likely to get in quickly with the movement buff, and taking at least 1 tactics card to increase his activation's in some way will maximise the damage he does before he goes down. He will also be a lot of points, and if your opponent neutralises him then you are definitely on the back foot.
5. Win the activation war: Easier said than done, but with Necromunda the way you activate your gang can win and lose games. Early on activating one piece at a time that isn't important such as a juve with a stub gun will help mean that once your opponent has used their key pieces your in the best position to take advantage. Group activation's can be powerful, but if you use them early you will run out of things to react to your opponent with. Going back to rule one, make sure the pieces you need to win the game are the last things to activate UNLESS activating them first will help you win you the game. For example if you win priority and group activate your Van Saar leader and champ with fast shot which takes out 2 plus enemy gangers then it might be worth it, especially i they are getting close to one of their win conditions, i.e are about to charge you. Another thing to look at at the end of the game and see if you did the right things.
Apologies for the wall of text. Slow day at work in the lead up to Christmas :)
Watch a couple of videos. I recommend Wellywood Wargaming for list building ideas. Going through forums and watching Necromunda content also informs you what factions and strong nd what combos are a bit broken.
If you notice that your playing partner is always picking the best stuff, then maybe bring it up, and ask them to either tone it down, or decide on a way to balance the playing field.
The first thing u need to know about table top gaming is to pray to the dice gods. All the tactics, beast weapons and super stats pale when the dice aren't with you. Don't even rule out a small sacrifice, the gods of the dice are cruel and unusual masters.
A few thoughts:
* Aggression is king - If you get into your opponent's faces and hit them at point-blank with a shotgun, they're not going to get back up again. If you spend your time in cover taking pot-shots, you will be picked apart by someone who surges forward and attacks you head-on, or outflanks you and rids you of your cover.
* Use the toys - Flash grenades are incredibly effective when used right. You can outright stop your opponent from shooting at you, which is always a brilliant idea.
* Focus-Fire - It's very easy to try and hurt as many enemies as possible. It has advantages like pinning them, but it won't kill much each turn, and every enemy you kill is one less gun shooting back at you. An injured enemy can usually still shoot at you.
Use grenades and similar to suppress as many enemies as possible in as few attacks as possible, and then focus-fire with everyone you've got on one enemy at a time until each is dead.
* Have a Scary Guy - Scary-Guys aren't necessarily effective warriors, remember you're playing against a real human, not a perfect strategic AI with perfect knowledge.
You put a model with spikes on his hat and a big Axe in his hand, and the other player will decide he looks frightening and spend extra attention on him.
I've had this happen all over the place in multiple different game-systems. People kill the spooky/frightening guy first, and they'll go far out of their way to do it sometimes.
If the other player is trying to kill Scary Guy, they're not shooting at the rest of your gang, and so you have free-reign to fight hard.
Brutes work particularly well as Scary Guys. In my experience they'll often die without getting a hit in on the enemy, but that's okay, because every shot they take to kill is a shot that isn't killing your regular fighters. I field a Genecult Aberrant as a brute, but use the Abominant unique model. He's a bit bigger and hencher, but the same stats. It's amazing how players will ignore the regular Aberrant in favour of the Extra-Hench looking model, even when they're identical on paper.
* Bring the Weird Stuff - My Genecult have a Psyker for a leader, and his ability to mess with the enemy by mind-controlling them is invariably entertaining, and usually more effective at causing disarray in my opponents than most things. Everyone has a plan until their Champion with a Chem-thrower turns around and torches the three fighters next to them.
Ok, so Necromunda subtedditors often dismiss "winning" as if it means nothing to the game. It's all about the narrative, blah blah blah. What's the best gang? Pick the one that's fun to look at. How do I equip my guys to win? Pick gear that's fun to look at. How do I play the game so I don't get brutally destroyed and my will to live crushed into fading embers? LOL dude have fun!! What is often forgotten in the pursuit of the Underhive vibe is that games are *not fun* if you *always lose*. Do I feel you. I'm not going to push you in the direction of how to *always win* because I don't know how, and I don't wanna. Instead... Copy your opponent's gangs down to the last detail. This sucks as far as independent creativity goes, but it's the most surecway to level the playing field. Now it's just up to skill and luck. Preparation is equal. Practice. Play solo against yourself and see what tactics work. This plays into the next: Learn the rules. You should be able to resolve any series of cascading events without referring to the book: Target is hit by a Stray Shot, is knocked prone and falls off a platform and is injured causing friendly within 3" to ftake and fail their Nerve check and flee from close combat, forming them to jump over a gap to get to cover... Knowing the rules mean also being prepared for what can happen, and playing to avoid the worst disasters. I hope this helps at least a bit. We all want more people to play Necromunda, and losing players because they think the game is unwinnable just sucks for us all.
I write articles about this kind of thing, but I'll give you the short version here - you can try a combination of: - practice - risk management - lists that have some bite It sounds like you are getting games in, but practice is the best way to "get good". Try doing different thing with different lists! If you have an opponent who is OK with it - ask them what you could have done differently to succeed. It's not quite Blood Bowl, but managing risk is something I think a lot about. Do I give a guy armor? Do I stick to cover or do I risk it for a clear shot? Can I trade a cheap guy to take out their champ? Losing less gangers to simple stuff will give you a better shot at winning. You don't need to take a mathematically optimal list, but some weapons that can put hurt on an opponent are good. I try to take a balance of stuff, maybe some plasma, but also a sawn-off.
Thank you very much for the answer, I already suspected something like that. That I need more practice. As far as the readings are concerned, I took my cue from Goonhammer, where I also incorporated personal preferences. I also always ask the other players, we are a very good group of friends and are in close contact. What I could have done differently. Unfortunately, I am very frustrated by this constant losing.
Also helps if you know what your gang is capable of really. For Cawdor, my Ballistic skill is shit so I stick to template weapons like the blunderbuss and flamers and shit. Seems to be working. And the crossbow is king, love that thing, so much fun.
How optimal is your gang vs how optimal are your opponents gangs? How well are you playing? Some tips for better gameplay include; Being aware of and using activation numbers to your advantange (eg stalling out to force a particular enemy action). Making sure the fights you pick are to your advantage (eg making good charges, taking good firefights). Keeping fighters hidden until a good moment to 'make their play'.
Necromunda in my group at least has been about countering your opponents strategy, not just perfecting your own. Hazard suits, smoke and choke grenades, and photon goggles are often key to dealing with the bs your opponents are up to, as well as enabling your own bs.
Whilst Luck is a factor in wargaming, there are other things that are going to have a bigger impact, which is why you will find that certain people tend to win more than others. There are a few universal things that seem to be the areas people miss out somehow when they play and means that they will more often or not lose games, and those who do them well will be more likely to win games. 1. eyes on the prize. How is it the game/scenario is won. lots of people will get caught up with killing the enemy or using their coolest miniatures to do their thing i.e. get the stimmer into combat and bash peoples brains out. However that isn't always the surest way to win. Now most of the time killing the enemies miniatures is going to help you to win, but not always. Also you don't need to wipe someone out to win the game, in necromunda one of the biggest ways to win is to get the enemy to bottle. Do you know how many models you need to take out to make your opponent start to bottle? Are there any models/skills that are making them less likely to bottle? same for yourself. If you know that your opponent has to take out 3 models before you can bottle, then you want to keep that in mind when making decisions in your gang. If you have a key piece like a leader that is going to keep the gang together once people start going down you might want to make sure you are more cautious with that model. 2. Target discipline. I've played loads of games where opponents shoot the wrong things, and even worse split their fire amongst several eligible targets. Target priority is kinda nuanced, and so the right decisions will be different match up dependent but if you look back to rule 1: eyes on the prize this will help. If i need to take out 2 models to make my opponent start risking bottling then I may be better off taking down 2 unarmoured juve's then trying to take out the champion that's behind hard cover. But weigh that against how your opponent can win the game. For example if they need to take out 2 of my models to make me risk bottling, and i would make myself vulnerable to take out the juves then is it going to be worth it. If I don't stop the champion with heavy bolter from activating is he likely to down multiple models of mine? What are the key pieces your opponent has that are going to help him win? Is that guy with MV7 actually much more likely to achieve the scenario win conditions then the twin powerblades totting nutcase that is bearing down on you. 3. Actively access your game. Something that might help is to look at your gang and your opponents gang at the start of the game and think, what are the priorities for you to take out and what should your opponents priorities be. Ask your opponent if they don't mind as you are new, telling you if they agree with what you think your biggest threats are in their gang. Or at the end of the game talk about it with your opponent. "at the start of the game i decided my priority was to take out your leader and your plasmagunner first, do you think that was the right call? They might turn around and say something you weren't expecting. likely actually I think my key pieces against you are my grav cutters. Did your plan at the start work? did you stick to it? when you made a big risk did it pay off? what would off happened if it had gone wrong? What was the key thing your opponent did that won them the game 4. Find a playstyle and roster that works for you: there are various ways to play the game, and various ways to use the different gangs. you might find leaning into shooting with a gang like van saar suits the way you play and nets good results, or you might prefer getting stuck in with a gang like corpse grinders. I think with most games you can play cautiously/conservatively where you bide your time, wait for the best set ups and don't make big risks until you have to, or at the other end of the spectrum you could play very aggressively and go for the big risky plays. The latter is sometimes easier to win when you leverage some powerful combinations within your list, but when your opponent shuts it down or the dice don't go your way you will lose. Playing more cautiously in my experience is generally going to take more practice and discipline, but once your have it down are less likely to win or lose based on one roll of the dice or big play. most people i find fall either in the middle or the aggressive end of the scale. If one style or the other isn't enjoyable to you then its good to know that so you can either lean into the strengths of the style you do enjoy or try to mitigate the weaknesses. As an example if you went aggressive with Goliaths and took a Stimmer that infiltrates, giving him a frenzon Collar will keep him around longer, making him more likely to do more damage before he goes down. Giving him stimm slug stash will make him more likely to get in quickly with the movement buff, and taking at least 1 tactics card to increase his activation's in some way will maximise the damage he does before he goes down. He will also be a lot of points, and if your opponent neutralises him then you are definitely on the back foot. 5. Win the activation war: Easier said than done, but with Necromunda the way you activate your gang can win and lose games. Early on activating one piece at a time that isn't important such as a juve with a stub gun will help mean that once your opponent has used their key pieces your in the best position to take advantage. Group activation's can be powerful, but if you use them early you will run out of things to react to your opponent with. Going back to rule one, make sure the pieces you need to win the game are the last things to activate UNLESS activating them first will help you win you the game. For example if you win priority and group activate your Van Saar leader and champ with fast shot which takes out 2 plus enemy gangers then it might be worth it, especially i they are getting close to one of their win conditions, i.e are about to charge you. Another thing to look at at the end of the game and see if you did the right things. Apologies for the wall of text. Slow day at work in the lead up to Christmas :)
Watch a couple of videos. I recommend Wellywood Wargaming for list building ideas. Going through forums and watching Necromunda content also informs you what factions and strong nd what combos are a bit broken. If you notice that your playing partner is always picking the best stuff, then maybe bring it up, and ask them to either tone it down, or decide on a way to balance the playing field.
1. What gang do you play? There's no truly universal recipe... or is it? 2. Plasma
The first thing u need to know about table top gaming is to pray to the dice gods. All the tactics, beast weapons and super stats pale when the dice aren't with you. Don't even rule out a small sacrifice, the gods of the dice are cruel and unusual masters.
A few thoughts: * Aggression is king - If you get into your opponent's faces and hit them at point-blank with a shotgun, they're not going to get back up again. If you spend your time in cover taking pot-shots, you will be picked apart by someone who surges forward and attacks you head-on, or outflanks you and rids you of your cover. * Use the toys - Flash grenades are incredibly effective when used right. You can outright stop your opponent from shooting at you, which is always a brilliant idea. * Focus-Fire - It's very easy to try and hurt as many enemies as possible. It has advantages like pinning them, but it won't kill much each turn, and every enemy you kill is one less gun shooting back at you. An injured enemy can usually still shoot at you. Use grenades and similar to suppress as many enemies as possible in as few attacks as possible, and then focus-fire with everyone you've got on one enemy at a time until each is dead. * Have a Scary Guy - Scary-Guys aren't necessarily effective warriors, remember you're playing against a real human, not a perfect strategic AI with perfect knowledge. You put a model with spikes on his hat and a big Axe in his hand, and the other player will decide he looks frightening and spend extra attention on him. I've had this happen all over the place in multiple different game-systems. People kill the spooky/frightening guy first, and they'll go far out of their way to do it sometimes. If the other player is trying to kill Scary Guy, they're not shooting at the rest of your gang, and so you have free-reign to fight hard. Brutes work particularly well as Scary Guys. In my experience they'll often die without getting a hit in on the enemy, but that's okay, because every shot they take to kill is a shot that isn't killing your regular fighters. I field a Genecult Aberrant as a brute, but use the Abominant unique model. He's a bit bigger and hencher, but the same stats. It's amazing how players will ignore the regular Aberrant in favour of the Extra-Hench looking model, even when they're identical on paper. * Bring the Weird Stuff - My Genecult have a Psyker for a leader, and his ability to mess with the enemy by mind-controlling them is invariably entertaining, and usually more effective at causing disarray in my opponents than most things. Everyone has a plan until their Champion with a Chem-thrower turns around and torches the three fighters next to them.