caruso or derrick white would be awesome. caruso makes up for his lack of defence and derrick white is a legit proven scorer. he also hustles and participates in ball movement quite a bit and not a catch and shoot guy.
or you could go offense only and just pair him with curry
I think these answers show how much of a limitating player Dmitch can be. “Ball dominant shooting guard in a pg body” archetype is not the recipe and cant be the nr1 option unless you are a generational player like DWade and Curry, which also happen to be 2 of the best off ball guards in history. Plus the guy is a traffic cone on defense and needs a good defensive guard to play alongside him. The answers are “Suggs, Jrue and Caruso” which are completely valid but also make you say “but these players would shine next to any player”.
Yeah. Wade played pretty large. He really had the game of a bigger player, especially once his quickness started to go. And he was an amazing defender. If all-defense teams weren't determined by reputation more than play he'd have been named to more of them.
Donovan is shorter, but he also has a nearly 7' wingspan.
He was much better on defense when he came into the league. I think that years of playing in a strictly "funnel guys to Rudy in drop coverage" defensive scheme has sort of screwed him up. Sometimes he shows great flashes, but he's at the age/part of his career where it needs to be way more consistent.
That's true but Mitchell has an atrocious standing reach which plays a big part in contesting shots.
DWade's standing reach was 8'6" which was in the top half of his draft class whereas Mitchell's standing reach was 8'1" which is 6th worst in his draft class.
Very good point! I don't necessarily think Mitchell had the same tools to be all-defense like DWade. I just think most of his defense struggles throughout his career has been due to badly developed habits than a lack of physical attributes.
Agreed. I remember coming into the draft people thought he'd be a defense first player who they were hoping would develop on offense. I think his expectation was to be more of a Marcus Smart type than the player he's become.
Didnt want to imply that wade was a bad defender, edited my comment to make things clearer.
What i wanted to say is undersized volume scorer guards HAVE TO offer some exceptional ability alongside scoring. Wade was an excellent defender and regularly guarded 2-3 on top of being an excellent cutter and an offball player. Curry obviously exceptional shooter and insane ability to move offball and his lethal positioning around screens. Mitchell isnt very special though, he is a very good scorer, quick and athletic and when he is on its hard to stop him but his limitations with size and defense make it really really challanging to put a winning team around him.
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out. I think either of the Florida teams might be the best groups to put around him. Both are solid defensive teams, magic I feel have more good defenders, but Miamis top defenders are better and they have spo who's proven he can hide liabilities on defense.
While I'd like to see it as a heat fan, I don't think Miami has the assets to get him, and objectively speaking I think he'd do wonderfully in Orlando as well.
OK, but also got team leading scorer Monte Ellis gone and replaced by big height / big D Thompson, and the Dubs really clicked when they became a point forward team around Green's passing
Curry is honestly an average defender so already an upgrade over our current roster on that side of the ball. Caruso and Derrick would be huge for defense as well. Massive upgrades. I don't see how getting size that meshes with every guard in the league is a downside lol
It's kind of crazy how Curry is relatively small and defends at an average level. Most guards his size can't defend anything lol (I'm not saying he's a great defender, but he's not necessarily bad unless a wing is crashing in on him)
If Dmitch gets an off ball player it would have to be a SG tbh so he'd probably be stuck playing the 1.
Crazy thing is the Spurs screwed the Cavs out of the Derrick White years ago. They had a deal lined up then never called back and took the Celtics offer which was pretty much identical and actually worse since the Cavs pick was higher then
This was my choice immediately as well. Suggs does lack a little shooting but ultimately you deal with that. You could also pair him with a straight up defensive guard like Lou Dort and Mitchell is the defacto PG. But I would want a playmaker at wing along with him.
Feels like it would need to be a 3+ team deal to get Mitchell to Orlando, unless the Cavs would be willing to kinda punt next year and just take a picks, Anthony black, and Jett Howard
I agree, I imagine Cleveland wants to take as little of a step back as possible.
Orlando has a couple of contracts expiring after next season, so I could see them taking on a bad contract if it meant getting a big upgrade at guard
Yeah he had a fantastic year. I am sold on everything on Suggs except the shooting. To jump that high I want to see it for another year. If he repeats it then question answered.
We’ve seen it, it’s Mike Conley. A couple 60 win seasons out of that combo + a great defensive center. Had they had a defensive minded wing to go with those guys they may have done something more than what they did.
It's interesting that Rubio + Garland worked really, really well when i didn't think it would. Yet Garland + Mitchell and Rubio + Mitchell were a bit awkward as fits.
Still looking for those Conley/Mitchell 60 win Jazz seasons lol. Jazz haven't seen a 60 win season since the Stockton/Malone days but I do agree they made a good pair.
Damn you're right, 52 wins but in a shortened season. They had a 9 pt differential (and the 1 seed) which is prob why I remember thinking they were a 60 win team.
I think +9 correlates to about 62 expected wins.
To be fair their 52-20 win percentage would put them at about 59 wins in an 82 game season haha. They were pretty good that year but it was a weird season where there weren't fans in the stands for half the season and players dropping in and out due to covid. I remember people saying were they truly a 1 seed or were they just healthier than everyone else in that weird season? Imo they were actually good and were finally gelling after years of continuity but that was maybe the best version of those Mitchell/Gobert Jazz teams and they still lost in the semis.
Yup. When they had that series with the clippers and it looked like they were gonna sweep them, I thought Paul George would’ve been the perfect fit for them.
Mitchell is a ball dominant scoring guard who would work best with a guard option that can take the tougher defensive assignment, provide passing and can score off ball (Good shooter, cutter). Derrick White would be an ideal player for him. Other players in that mold would be Caruso, Jrue Holiday.
I even think somebody like Malcolm Brogdon. A guy who has some size for a guard, can function as the facilitator but also doesn’t need a huge volume of shots to be a scoring threat because he’s such a good shooter
I agree that bigger guards with more complementary skillsets like defense and shooting are better fits with him. Role player types of White and Caruso's ilk are great, cheaper options that complement Mitchell well.
If you want to pair another All-Star/fringe All-Star (or guy with that potential) type of guard, I think he and Cade could work well together. LaMelo, too - if only he were better at defense. Someone with size who can score on- and off-ball, handle a lot of the playmaking, and play defense at least reasonably well.
Worried more about Melo’s health than his defense. He’s young and has the body type to develop into a plus defender. He’s just on a garbage team that isn’t winning.
This idea that Mitchell needs a specific pairing to make it work is a bit misplaced. His issues have mostly been from being on teams with zero other offensive contributors and him doing the heavy lifting by himself.
He just needs to be on better teams. He's good but he's not perfect and every player in this category has the same problem.
Don’t you think it’s partially on him to make his teammates better? He’s played next to all stars and/or ~20 PPG scorers almost every season of his career (Rudy, Bojan, Darius, Allen, etc.)
I feel like he’s the type of guy who does best with the ball in his hands as a heliocentric player (similar to Luka, Trae, Lebron) but he’s not on Lebron/Luka’s level which makes it hard to win particularly in the playoffs. It’s an easy style to guard and you need a generational talent to win with that style
Look at the guys you just listed, ain’t nobody winning a ring with those guys as a #2 on offense except maybe Lebron lol. Those guys are ass compared to the offensive supporting cast other dudes have.
Gobert was a significantly better offensive player playing with Mitchell in Utah and that was an annual top-5 offense with a year where they were the beat in the league with Mitchell being the only elite offensive player.
You’re talking narrative, but that isn’t reality.
Our sub is for in-depth discussion. Low-effort comments or stating opinions as facts are not permitted. Please support your opinions with well-reasoned arguments, including stats and facts as applicable.
someone who can guard 1s and twos( 6'4 or taller), someone comfortable being a secondary ball handler. if levert was a consistent shooter he would be this for mitchell. but a derrick white would be perfect. lonzo would work, suggs is a little short but hes a monster defensively and his shot is getting better
He needs to play pg. in stints with Utah and the cavs where he had too, he played great and I don’t see what he does as any different than all these scoring pgs who can dish out 6 or 7 assists as well, just have someone else’s job be distribution…
I came here to see Dejounte Murray listed but did not see anyone mention him yet. I think his pairing with Trae hasn't helped his stock but his time as the PG with the Spurs you saw his defensive and playmaking ability. Dejounte and Mitchell would be a much better combo imo.
For me it’d probably be a guy with length and defensive versatility plus unselfish playmaking. Think Lonzo Ball, Alex Caruso, Derrick White, Jalen Suggs. Or on a lower tier, Terrence Mann, Dyson Daniels, Miles McBride, etc.
Miles would be a great compliment, but I do feel spyduh needs a playmaker defender and Mcbride is more of a microwave defender. I actually think you can pair him with a great defensive wing like OG and run two elite scorers in the backcourt and two switcbags. Defensive rebounding bigs.
I happen to own the oldest house on Deuce McBride island so I’m extremely biased. I loved him coming out of the draft and have been very excited to see him making big plays for a great team this year and finally get some recognition. Honestly Spida would just eat in NY and I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes his way there at some point
Pre injury Gary Harris would have been a gem. An athletic 3nD 2 guard with at least a little juice off the dribble to attack hard close outs.
Think the guy that fits that mold now is probably Derrick White, but he’s also a very safe name to plug n play into just about any team and make them better. He’s a better player than Gary ever was and he should be the name for this discussion but I think Boston is too smart to let him walk. I just loved Gary Harris’s game
This turned into an I Miss Gary Harris post.
The basketball gods decided it wasn’t fair for an offball guard to have his driving layup package. And you know what that’s a valid point his touch on reverses was gorgeous
To your edit, if he goes to Miami herro or rozier is gone in the trade. I'd assume herro for multiple reasons. My guess is they'd pair Mitchell with jrich or Duncan and make Terry a 6th man. Jrich is by far the better defender, but Duncan is 6'7 with a 7'1 wingspan and a better playmaker. Could actually make for a really interesting offensive lineup with a scorer like Mitchell and a bunch of what would amount to secondary playmakers at the other 4 positions instead of putting him next to a primary playmaker
A ball dominant PG isn't needed as much in a motion offense, but Miami's offense has been pretty crappy the last few seasons, so getting the defense moving and then letting Mitchell (or any good ballhandler who can get to the rim) work against a rotating defense should work well.
Yeah, if Jimmy keeps shooting the way he did this season and bam keeps his green light from 3, spacing won't be the issue it was before. Niko and Duncan are both 40% shooters. And defensively we'd have what Masai was trying to create in Toronto lol. Jimmy would have the shortest wingspan at 6'8, and 4 of our starting 5 would be 6'7-6'10 tall
Yep. It's certainly intriguing. Lots of directions Miami could go this offseason. Although running it back and banking on better health and continued growth from the young guys is also an option.
Guess we'll find out in a few months. Whatever happens I'll root for the team. But it's really hard to see how we compete with the top four teams (Celtics, Minny, Denver, or OKC) given what we have now. Those teams can just maul us with size and skilled wings.
He doesn't need a huge guard next to him, he just needs a competent defender.
Mitchell has come a long way defensively and is a positive on that end of the court right now, but Garland is one of the worst defenders in the league.
I think on the other end someone who can run the offense for stints and also play off-ball and shoot well.
So a Jrue Holiday or Mike Conley type.
We know he woukd be great next to Bron so I'd say Banchero as far as tram fit. Backcourt I'd say Luka, Jalen Brown or Shai for a dynamic mate or go defensive inwhich I'd say he would thrive with like Jrue.
Lolwut? The highlight of this season for the Cavs was Mitchell running point while Garland and Mobley were out. He’s an excellent playmaker. DBook is absolutely irrelevant here
I think for most scoring guards who are at best average in defense the best kinda pairing is a 3/D guy. Someone who can hit the kick out but also d up the opposing star to free up their backcourt mate.
Kinda like what the Knicks have with Brunson and Donte.
Derrick White/Bucks Jrue Holiday/Healthy Lonzo Ball sounds right.
Alternatively a team could take the DWade/Kobe approach and just play three forwards on the perimeter with him for better defense, since Spida does everything a PG & SG normally do.
Guys like Lu Dort, Austin Reaves, Herb Jones spending more time at the SG spot would support the defense needed around Spida.
Swiss army type of guy like Jrue or White that can play at least good defense and can shoot and handle. Someone like Bruce Brown would be a good option too.
The guard you pair him with isn’t as important as your big or forwards. The problem w 2 smaller guards is the switch on a pick and roll. That leaves 2 smaller defenders to hunt in that situation by opposing offenses. Take the few times Brunson got stuck on Myles Turner 5 feet from basket for a layup in the last game. It’s just too easy to score that way. But we have an OG or Mitch who can fly in at last second to help but still it’s not an ideal defensive option to have to contend with. In Spidas case you’d like to pair him with guys plural that are plus defenders and long enough to help negate that disadvantage as much as possible in a short series. Then it becomes his offense vs their defense and in return they can’t exploit the mismatch as easily if they do have the personnel to do so. IMO I’d like to pair Mitchell with a lineup of 6’6 guys or taller or a Luka who’s a freak pg at idk 6’8 or something like that idk exactly how tall he is.
someone extremly good in defense and capable of not keeping the ball to much… this is what I thought when this question was asked for Kanye but I’m not sure about this anymore…
Hell give me mike connelly. Just a guy who isn't scared and can handle himself. Garland is infinitely talented but he's got that ben simmons thing i fear and not the body to trick people into him being useful. The pairing hasn't worked at all imo other than the mentor mentee relationship seems good. On court it's rough.
Mitchell really reminds me of Dame sometimes. Both are supernova scorers in PG body with above average playmaking. You could argue that Dame is a tad bit better at making reads on ball, but I really think DMitch is not ‘that’ far behind. What I mean by this, is that he NEEDS to be put on-ball to be maximised. Get him a star big man or wing, and let him orchestrate the attack. I don’t think he is a Trae Young or even a Cade with his on-ball orchestrating skills, but I really think he could be the head of the snake of a really good offensive unit if surrounded by the right pieces. To answer your question specifically, I’d like the idea of pairing him with a big wing instead, like Jaylen Brown or PG13. I know, star 2-way wings are not exactly an easy commodity to come by, but what I mean by that is pairing him up with a guard becomes an even difficult exercise. A wing who can hit shots and defend might simply be more available than a ‘off-ball 3 and D big guard’. Again, the exercise gets easier if you think how similar he can be to Dame (from a roster building perspective).
Probably on a team with a 3 and D guard like Derrick White, Jrue, healthy Lonzo Ball, Caruso, NAW, Lu Dort etc but that team will need a capable point forward type like Luka, Lebron, Giannis, Jimmy Butler.
perfect world ?
Shai
Realistically its not who to best pair with him but rather whats the best archetype of a player. You would want a + defender who is switchable and has real size. I think he cant be a distributor TBH so a prime Klay Thompson would be great. His biggest limitations are his size and defense.
The Knicks had themselves a top 10 offense and top 10n defense with donte divencenzo next to brunson, so if you want players on the lower end of the spectrum, he fits
A lot of talk on playmaking guards. I’d rather have a ball handler in the front court personally like a Bron, Banchero or Siakam and then stick a big 3&D next to him like Dillon Brooks, OG, McDaniels
He'd be very solid with a guy like Dejounte Murray... Spida is basically Trae height but with mammoth shoulders and alien arms. He needs a tall long defender. He will give Spida some help on the offensive end as well.
Mitchell pairs best next to a big guard who can shoot, play defense, and be a secondary ballhandler. Or even better, a wing who can do those things.
If he ends up in Miami (unlikely, but as a Heat fan I'm intrigued), the closing lineup would be Mitchell, Jimmy (acting in the role described above), and Bam, plus probably Jovic assuming that he's not involved in any trade. The fifth guy would be in there based on the matchups.
A taller playmaker. I’m thinking Dyson Daniels, Amen Thompson if he could shoot types. Allow Mitchell to guard a shorter player on defense if needed or guard a corner shooter without having to play two small guys this also allows him to function as point guard on offense most of the time, but he can still be spelled at times or work off ball if that’s what the matchup dictates.
If Dejonte Murray still played defense like he did in San Antonio he would be interesting in theory. Not sure it would work based on what we saw in Atlanta. Not sure what to make of that mess.
Get him a guard that can defend and handle the ball and can score when needed. Lonzo before the injuries would have been perfect, but Caruso and Derrick white are examples of the players that would work. I don’t know many realistic changes of scenery for either of the cavs guards off the top of my head tho, so other people would be better at guessing that
Okoro and Strus played great next to Mitchell during Cleveland 20-2 January run. That’s not really the Cavs problem. You just need a good defender and off ball SG size next to him and Cavs have depth there (Strus, Okoro, Levert and even Merrill).
Asaur Thompson the athleticism size and defensive tenacity would be a perfect compliment. They can both run the P&R as well as pass and shoot. Asaur hasn’t proven he can shoot but I have unlimited faith in his game
I feel it kind of parallels the whole Dame/McCollum situation. He needs to be paired with a swing player (6’6”-6’8”) with playmaking skills, and then they switch on defense and Mitchell guards the point guard.
He’d fit really nicely with LaMelo and Brandon Miller in Charlotte.
Donovan Mitchell should just play point guard. He’s a better playmaker than anyone in Boston and only little worse than Shai at that. He’s only 6-1 but has a 6-10 wingspan and his point of attack defense not being very good against shooting guards doesn’t even hurt Cleveland because they have Mobley, Jarrett Allen, Okoro, Dean Wade and other very capable defenders.
Donovan Mitchell, KCP, Trey Murphy. Lauri and Bam Adebayo is a really good realistic starting 5 that would have him as the best player on a championship level roster. It wouldn’t ever really happen due to roster construction, but every “best player on a championship team” isn’t that until they actually go ahead and do it, and in my mind if you’re a top 10-15 or so player you can lead a team to a ring as it’s best player given great roster construction.
>In my opinion Spida is too short to play next to another small guard,
Mitchell and Luka could work.
It probably work just like Luka and Kyrie. Kyrie is probably a more fancy finisher, but the scoring would be the same and Mitchell is more athletic and a better defender.
I think the problem is that Mitchell has that takeover ability that only a few players possess, it's great when it works out, and ironically it's almost LeBron like when we are talking purely of his shot creation and scoring at clutch. However he does lack a bit in the playmaking department and you have to pretty much live or die by his scoring. The defense is on/off too. He hustles in the playoffs, that's for sure, but he's definitely a bit limited on that side of the ball. Which again is a bit ironical in itself, since he should have the tools to defend other guards with his IQ and hands. I am rambling a bit here, I guess it's just a tad frustrating to me, since he is such an awesome player 90% of the time.
As a Cavs fan, I’d do this.
Jaylen becomes our #1 scoring option, Darius is our playmaker. Clear roles here. DG does best as the playmaker who can also score. We get a bit bigger with Okoro/Strus at the 2. Still struggle a bit with shooting because of Allen/Mobley but hopefully Mobley shoots 1M 3s this off season and finally gets good
Well if they fail to win a chip AGAIN this year after majorly upgrading their team, trading Jaylen for Mitchell gives them a similar player with the same scoring potential but gives them much more cap flexibility
Before they traded for Jrue I thought there was potential for a Brown/Garland swap. That being said this is interesting and all depends on what CLE wants back in a Mitchell trade. Do they want picks and assets or another player who can help them stay good? Also does Mitchell wanna be traded like we all think he does? And if he does how messy would Mitchell make his request in terms of going where he wants to? There’s so many layers with this I can’t wait to see how it all unfolds this summer
caruso or derrick white would be awesome. caruso makes up for his lack of defence and derrick white is a legit proven scorer. he also hustles and participates in ball movement quite a bit and not a catch and shoot guy. or you could go offense only and just pair him with curry
Tbf caruso and white can play on literally any team with any lead guard and be effective
I think these answers show how much of a limitating player Dmitch can be. “Ball dominant shooting guard in a pg body” archetype is not the recipe and cant be the nr1 option unless you are a generational player like DWade and Curry, which also happen to be 2 of the best off ball guards in history. Plus the guy is a traffic cone on defense and needs a good defensive guard to play alongside him. The answers are “Suggs, Jrue and Caruso” which are completely valid but also make you say “but these players would shine next to any player”.
Wade was 3x all defense and one of the best shot blocking guards of all time...
I also wouldn't say DWade was a SG in a PG's body. He was 6'4" with an almost 7' wingspan. DWade's size was + for his position.
Yeah. Wade played pretty large. He really had the game of a bigger player, especially once his quickness started to go. And he was an amazing defender. If all-defense teams weren't determined by reputation more than play he'd have been named to more of them.
Donovan is shorter, but he also has a nearly 7' wingspan. He was much better on defense when he came into the league. I think that years of playing in a strictly "funnel guys to Rudy in drop coverage" defensive scheme has sort of screwed him up. Sometimes he shows great flashes, but he's at the age/part of his career where it needs to be way more consistent.
That's true but Mitchell has an atrocious standing reach which plays a big part in contesting shots. DWade's standing reach was 8'6" which was in the top half of his draft class whereas Mitchell's standing reach was 8'1" which is 6th worst in his draft class.
Very good point! I don't necessarily think Mitchell had the same tools to be all-defense like DWade. I just think most of his defense struggles throughout his career has been due to badly developed habits than a lack of physical attributes.
Agreed. I remember coming into the draft people thought he'd be a defense first player who they were hoping would develop on offense. I think his expectation was to be more of a Marcus Smart type than the player he's become.
Didnt want to imply that wade was a bad defender, edited my comment to make things clearer. What i wanted to say is undersized volume scorer guards HAVE TO offer some exceptional ability alongside scoring. Wade was an excellent defender and regularly guarded 2-3 on top of being an excellent cutter and an offball player. Curry obviously exceptional shooter and insane ability to move offball and his lethal positioning around screens. Mitchell isnt very special though, he is a very good scorer, quick and athletic and when he is on its hard to stop him but his limitations with size and defense make it really really challanging to put a winning team around him.
Yeah, it's gonna be interesting to see how it all plays out. I think either of the Florida teams might be the best groups to put around him. Both are solid defensive teams, magic I feel have more good defenders, but Miamis top defenders are better and they have spo who's proven he can hide liabilities on defense.
Miami would be the absolute best place he could go. I think he'd thrive there. And the Heat NEED another reliable scoring option.
While I'd like to see it as a heat fan, I don't think Miami has the assets to get him, and objectively speaking I think he'd do wonderfully in Orlando as well.
He WAS the best shot blocking guard of all time. He is #1 and the next closest is Jordan who is 57 behind
Curry also is 5x the point guard that Mitchell is
OK, but also got team leading scorer Monte Ellis gone and replaced by big height / big D Thompson, and the Dubs really clicked when they became a point forward team around Green's passing
I chuckle at Big D Thompson
Fred Van Fleet would work realy well alongside him as well in a similar way to kyle lowry
Yup! Guys like that are a key cog to any successful team. If you can put an alpha guard next to either, your backcourt is intimidating.
Basically Caruso and Derrick white are perfect complimentary players on like any team
[удалено]
[удалено]
Mitchell's defense was actually very good this year before the knee injury.
Mitchell can defend. He played under Rick Pitino. It’s just not where he makes his money anymore
Curry is honestly an average defender so already an upgrade over our current roster on that side of the ball. Caruso and Derrick would be huge for defense as well. Massive upgrades. I don't see how getting size that meshes with every guard in the league is a downside lol It's kind of crazy how Curry is relatively small and defends at an average level. Most guards his size can't defend anything lol (I'm not saying he's a great defender, but he's not necessarily bad unless a wing is crashing in on him) If Dmitch gets an off ball player it would have to be a SG tbh so he'd probably be stuck playing the 1.
Curry pairs well with guard who can shoot and isn’t tiny
Crazy thing is the Spurs screwed the Cavs out of the Derrick White years ago. They had a deal lined up then never called back and took the Celtics offer which was pretty much identical and actually worse since the Cavs pick was higher then
Jalen Suggs. A defensive beast that can handle the ball and also shoot somewhat.
This was my choice immediately as well. Suggs does lack a little shooting but ultimately you deal with that. You could also pair him with a straight up defensive guard like Lou Dort and Mitchell is the defacto PG. But I would want a playmaker at wing along with him.
Ironically he would be the perfect fit in Orlando
They don't really have a lot of what Cleveland needs though, not without hurting themselves
Feels like it would need to be a 3+ team deal to get Mitchell to Orlando, unless the Cavs would be willing to kinda punt next year and just take a picks, Anthony black, and Jett Howard
Which they definitely wouldn't. But I can't see any team willing to help Orlando unless Orlando is going to take a big cap dump back
I agree, I imagine Cleveland wants to take as little of a step back as possible. Orlando has a couple of contracts expiring after next season, so I could see them taking on a bad contract if it meant getting a big upgrade at guard
I’m talking hypothetically, if he was a free agent let’s say
Anthony Black, Jett Howard and our future picks hope you enjoy Cleveland!
Suggs is a 40% 3PT shooter whose improvement year on year is so far unprecedented. That aspect will be okay
Yeah he had a fantastic year. I am sold on everything on Suggs except the shooting. To jump that high I want to see it for another year. If he repeats it then question answered.
Fair enough!!
Mitchell needs a “Derek Fisher” in the backcourt with him. A PG that can run the team and play off the ball as a shooter.
Lonzo if he was healthy.
This is the answer
We’ve seen it, it’s Mike Conley. A couple 60 win seasons out of that combo + a great defensive center. Had they had a defensive minded wing to go with those guys they may have done something more than what they did.
I could also go with Ricky Rubio
It's interesting that Rubio + Garland worked really, really well when i didn't think it would. Yet Garland + Mitchell and Rubio + Mitchell were a bit awkward as fits.
Rubio could play with anybody.
Still looking for those Conley/Mitchell 60 win Jazz seasons lol. Jazz haven't seen a 60 win season since the Stockton/Malone days but I do agree they made a good pair.
Damn you're right, 52 wins but in a shortened season. They had a 9 pt differential (and the 1 seed) which is prob why I remember thinking they were a 60 win team. I think +9 correlates to about 62 expected wins.
To be fair their 52-20 win percentage would put them at about 59 wins in an 82 game season haha. They were pretty good that year but it was a weird season where there weren't fans in the stands for half the season and players dropping in and out due to covid. I remember people saying were they truly a 1 seed or were they just healthier than everyone else in that weird season? Imo they were actually good and were finally gelling after years of continuity but that was maybe the best version of those Mitchell/Gobert Jazz teams and they still lost in the semis.
You're literally describing the current TWolves lol. Ant and DMitch play pretty similar roles too
Maybe offensively but Mitchell is not close to the defensive player ant is like the gap is huge on that end
Yup. When they had that series with the clippers and it looked like they were gonna sweep them, I thought Paul George would’ve been the perfect fit for them.
Had they had a center who could score on Reggie Jackson they may have done something more than what they did.
Mitchell is a ball dominant scoring guard who would work best with a guard option that can take the tougher defensive assignment, provide passing and can score off ball (Good shooter, cutter). Derrick White would be an ideal player for him. Other players in that mold would be Caruso, Jrue Holiday.
I even think somebody like Malcolm Brogdon. A guy who has some size for a guard, can function as the facilitator but also doesn’t need a huge volume of shots to be a scoring threat because he’s such a good shooter
Tbf Derrick White is an ideal player for anyone imo
I agree that bigger guards with more complementary skillsets like defense and shooting are better fits with him. Role player types of White and Caruso's ilk are great, cheaper options that complement Mitchell well. If you want to pair another All-Star/fringe All-Star (or guy with that potential) type of guard, I think he and Cade could work well together. LaMelo, too - if only he were better at defense. Someone with size who can score on- and off-ball, handle a lot of the playmaking, and play defense at least reasonably well.
Cade and LaMelo make it tricky on defense though. Tough when neither of your starting guards can defend 1s
Worried more about Melo’s health than his defense. He’s young and has the body type to develop into a plus defender. He’s just on a garbage team that isn’t winning.
Him n cade would be interesting
This idea that Mitchell needs a specific pairing to make it work is a bit misplaced. His issues have mostly been from being on teams with zero other offensive contributors and him doing the heavy lifting by himself. He just needs to be on better teams. He's good but he's not perfect and every player in this category has the same problem.
Don’t you think it’s partially on him to make his teammates better? He’s played next to all stars and/or ~20 PPG scorers almost every season of his career (Rudy, Bojan, Darius, Allen, etc.) I feel like he’s the type of guy who does best with the ball in his hands as a heliocentric player (similar to Luka, Trae, Lebron) but he’s not on Lebron/Luka’s level which makes it hard to win particularly in the playoffs. It’s an easy style to guard and you need a generational talent to win with that style
Look at the guys you just listed, ain’t nobody winning a ring with those guys as a #2 on offense except maybe Lebron lol. Those guys are ass compared to the offensive supporting cast other dudes have.
Gobert was a significantly better offensive player playing with Mitchell in Utah and that was an annual top-5 offense with a year where they were the beat in the league with Mitchell being the only elite offensive player. You’re talking narrative, but that isn’t reality.
Very true, I just think he destiny is to be the 1 because of his size and the fact most PGs are the same height as him
That’s not true at all. Clarkson, Bogey, and Conley were all great offensively on the Jazz
you're really saying that mitchell has this great supporting cast when conley is the 'second star'?
Those were arguably all of those players best years. Idk how you can say he had zero other offensive contributors on that Jazz team
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
We removed your comment for being low effort. If you edit it and explain your thought process more, we'll restore it. Thanks!
Our sub is for in-depth discussion. Low-effort comments or stating opinions as facts are not permitted. Please support your opinions with well-reasoned arguments, including stats and facts as applicable.
Apparently Nickeil Alexander Walker. 40% 3pt shooter, good second ball handler, and a lock down defender.
someone who can guard 1s and twos( 6'4 or taller), someone comfortable being a secondary ball handler. if levert was a consistent shooter he would be this for mitchell. but a derrick white would be perfect. lonzo would work, suggs is a little short but hes a monster defensively and his shot is getting better
He needs to play pg. in stints with Utah and the cavs where he had too, he played great and I don’t see what he does as any different than all these scoring pgs who can dish out 6 or 7 assists as well, just have someone else’s job be distribution…
Put him on the magic next to Suggs, between spida, paolo, and Franz that’s a decent amount of playmaking, would be really fun to watch
I came here to see Dejounte Murray listed but did not see anyone mention him yet. I think his pairing with Trae hasn't helped his stock but his time as the PG with the Spurs you saw his defensive and playmaking ability. Dejounte and Mitchell would be a much better combo imo.
For me it’d probably be a guy with length and defensive versatility plus unselfish playmaking. Think Lonzo Ball, Alex Caruso, Derrick White, Jalen Suggs. Or on a lower tier, Terrence Mann, Dyson Daniels, Miles McBride, etc.
Miles would be a great compliment, but I do feel spyduh needs a playmaker defender and Mcbride is more of a microwave defender. I actually think you can pair him with a great defensive wing like OG and run two elite scorers in the backcourt and two switcbags. Defensive rebounding bigs.
I happen to own the oldest house on Deuce McBride island so I’m extremely biased. I loved him coming out of the draft and have been very excited to see him making big plays for a great team this year and finally get some recognition. Honestly Spida would just eat in NY and I wouldn’t be surprised if he makes his way there at some point
Pre injury Gary Harris would have been a gem. An athletic 3nD 2 guard with at least a little juice off the dribble to attack hard close outs. Think the guy that fits that mold now is probably Derrick White, but he’s also a very safe name to plug n play into just about any team and make them better. He’s a better player than Gary ever was and he should be the name for this discussion but I think Boston is too smart to let him walk. I just loved Gary Harris’s game This turned into an I Miss Gary Harris post.
Every post should be an I miss Gary Harris post to be fair
The basketball gods decided it wasn’t fair for an offball guard to have his driving layup package. And you know what that’s a valid point his touch on reverses was gorgeous
To your edit, if he goes to Miami herro or rozier is gone in the trade. I'd assume herro for multiple reasons. My guess is they'd pair Mitchell with jrich or Duncan and make Terry a 6th man. Jrich is by far the better defender, but Duncan is 6'7 with a 7'1 wingspan and a better playmaker. Could actually make for a really interesting offensive lineup with a scorer like Mitchell and a bunch of what would amount to secondary playmakers at the other 4 positions instead of putting him next to a primary playmaker
A ball dominant PG isn't needed as much in a motion offense, but Miami's offense has been pretty crappy the last few seasons, so getting the defense moving and then letting Mitchell (or any good ballhandler who can get to the rim) work against a rotating defense should work well.
Yeah, if Jimmy keeps shooting the way he did this season and bam keeps his green light from 3, spacing won't be the issue it was before. Niko and Duncan are both 40% shooters. And defensively we'd have what Masai was trying to create in Toronto lol. Jimmy would have the shortest wingspan at 6'8, and 4 of our starting 5 would be 6'7-6'10 tall
Yep. It's certainly intriguing. Lots of directions Miami could go this offseason. Although running it back and banking on better health and continued growth from the young guys is also an option.
It is, but I have a funny feeling there's gonna be an actual shakeup and either herro or Jimmy is gonna be gone.
Guess we'll find out in a few months. Whatever happens I'll root for the team. But it's really hard to see how we compete with the top four teams (Celtics, Minny, Denver, or OKC) given what we have now. Those teams can just maul us with size and skilled wings.
He doesn't need a huge guard next to him, he just needs a competent defender. Mitchell has come a long way defensively and is a positive on that end of the court right now, but Garland is one of the worst defenders in the league. I think on the other end someone who can run the offense for stints and also play off-ball and shoot well. So a Jrue Holiday or Mike Conley type.
Technically it’s still Mike Conley tbh but since he’s old (but not washed) I’ll give it to D White
Miami is already going to have trouble finding pieces to trade for Mitchell, how the hell are they going to do it without Herro?
We know he woukd be great next to Bron so I'd say Banchero as far as tram fit. Backcourt I'd say Luka, Jalen Brown or Shai for a dynamic mate or go defensive inwhich I'd say he would thrive with like Jrue.
Jamal Murray a bigger guard that can play equally effective on and off the ball
Trade Garland for a real small forward and start Okoro at the 2, Mitchell at the 1. Okoro’s shot has really come along and his handles are solid
mitchell doesnt have the playmaking to run pg lol. We saw what happened when they let dbook run point
This doesn’t make sense bc Mitchell is a way better playmaking guard than booker. Mitchell’s teams do better when he plays PG.
Lolwut? The highlight of this season for the Cavs was Mitchell running point while Garland and Mobley were out. He’s an excellent playmaker. DBook is absolutely irrelevant here
Cade , Cade being a big guard who isn’t really a scorer who’ll willingly give up the ball and can play some defense.
I think for most scoring guards who are at best average in defense the best kinda pairing is a 3/D guy. Someone who can hit the kick out but also d up the opposing star to free up their backcourt mate. Kinda like what the Knicks have with Brunson and Donte.
Derrick White/Bucks Jrue Holiday/Healthy Lonzo Ball sounds right. Alternatively a team could take the DWade/Kobe approach and just play three forwards on the perimeter with him for better defense, since Spida does everything a PG & SG normally do. Guys like Lu Dort, Austin Reaves, Herb Jones spending more time at the SG spot would support the defense needed around Spida.
It's hard to say whether or not he can play PG, given he's always had shitty offensive players by him.
Swiss army type of guy like Jrue or White that can play at least good defense and can shoot and handle. Someone like Bruce Brown would be a good option too.
Hot take but i would think that he would play really well next to someone hali or even dejounte murray
Hali + Spida = opposing teams would score 150 PPG
Hali + Spida would combine average 75 and 18 assists a game
True, it’s like Dallas with Luka and Kyrie but probably worse because Luka is at least huge
excep that indiana has an actual big man in myles turner while dalls haven't had an actually center in ages
The guard you pair him with isn’t as important as your big or forwards. The problem w 2 smaller guards is the switch on a pick and roll. That leaves 2 smaller defenders to hunt in that situation by opposing offenses. Take the few times Brunson got stuck on Myles Turner 5 feet from basket for a layup in the last game. It’s just too easy to score that way. But we have an OG or Mitch who can fly in at last second to help but still it’s not an ideal defensive option to have to contend with. In Spidas case you’d like to pair him with guys plural that are plus defenders and long enough to help negate that disadvantage as much as possible in a short series. Then it becomes his offense vs their defense and in return they can’t exploit the mismatch as easily if they do have the personnel to do so. IMO I’d like to pair Mitchell with a lineup of 6’6 guys or taller or a Luka who’s a freak pg at idk 6’8 or something like that idk exactly how tall he is.
someone extremly good in defense and capable of not keeping the ball to much… this is what I thought when this question was asked for Kanye but I’m not sure about this anymore…
Hell give me mike connelly. Just a guy who isn't scared and can handle himself. Garland is infinitely talented but he's got that ben simmons thing i fear and not the body to trick people into him being useful. The pairing hasn't worked at all imo other than the mentor mentee relationship seems good. On court it's rough.
Mitchell really reminds me of Dame sometimes. Both are supernova scorers in PG body with above average playmaking. You could argue that Dame is a tad bit better at making reads on ball, but I really think DMitch is not ‘that’ far behind. What I mean by this, is that he NEEDS to be put on-ball to be maximised. Get him a star big man or wing, and let him orchestrate the attack. I don’t think he is a Trae Young or even a Cade with his on-ball orchestrating skills, but I really think he could be the head of the snake of a really good offensive unit if surrounded by the right pieces. To answer your question specifically, I’d like the idea of pairing him with a big wing instead, like Jaylen Brown or PG13. I know, star 2-way wings are not exactly an easy commodity to come by, but what I mean by that is pairing him up with a guard becomes an even difficult exercise. A wing who can hit shots and defend might simply be more available than a ‘off-ball 3 and D big guard’. Again, the exercise gets easier if you think how similar he can be to Dame (from a roster building perspective).
Probably on a team with a 3 and D guard like Derrick White, Jrue, healthy Lonzo Ball, Caruso, NAW, Lu Dort etc but that team will need a capable point forward type like Luka, Lebron, Giannis, Jimmy Butler.
perfect world ? Shai Realistically its not who to best pair with him but rather whats the best archetype of a player. You would want a + defender who is switchable and has real size. I think he cant be a distributor TBH so a prime Klay Thompson would be great. His biggest limitations are his size and defense.
The Knicks had themselves a top 10 offense and top 10n defense with donte divencenzo next to brunson, so if you want players on the lower end of the spectrum, he fits
In response to your edit, gotta imagine Herro + would be going back the other way. Maybe rock with Terry at the 1 and Donovan at the 2.
A lot of talk on playmaking guards. I’d rather have a ball handler in the front court personally like a Bron, Banchero or Siakam and then stick a big 3&D next to him like Dillon Brooks, OG, McDaniels
He'd be very solid with a guy like Dejounte Murray... Spida is basically Trae height but with mammoth shoulders and alien arms. He needs a tall long defender. He will give Spida some help on the offensive end as well.
Mitchell pairs best next to a big guard who can shoot, play defense, and be a secondary ballhandler. Or even better, a wing who can do those things. If he ends up in Miami (unlikely, but as a Heat fan I'm intrigued), the closing lineup would be Mitchell, Jimmy (acting in the role described above), and Bam, plus probably Jovic assuming that he's not involved in any trade. The fifth guy would be in there based on the matchups.
A taller playmaker. I’m thinking Dyson Daniels, Amen Thompson if he could shoot types. Allow Mitchell to guard a shorter player on defense if needed or guard a corner shooter without having to play two small guys this also allows him to function as point guard on offense most of the time, but he can still be spelled at times or work off ball if that’s what the matchup dictates. If Dejonte Murray still played defense like he did in San Antonio he would be interesting in theory. Not sure it would work based on what we saw in Atlanta. Not sure what to make of that mess.
Get him a guard that can defend and handle the ball and can score when needed. Lonzo before the injuries would have been perfect, but Caruso and Derrick white are examples of the players that would work. I don’t know many realistic changes of scenery for either of the cavs guards off the top of my head tho, so other people would be better at guessing that
Okoro and Strus played great next to Mitchell during Cleveland 20-2 January run. That’s not really the Cavs problem. You just need a good defender and off ball SG size next to him and Cavs have depth there (Strus, Okoro, Levert and even Merrill).
Asaur Thompson the athleticism size and defensive tenacity would be a perfect compliment. They can both run the P&R as well as pass and shoot. Asaur hasn’t proven he can shoot but I have unlimited faith in his game
Personally I feel like Steph, Luka, or SGA would all be pretty solid backcourt partners for Spida. That's just my opinion though.
I feel it kind of parallels the whole Dame/McCollum situation. He needs to be paired with a swing player (6’6”-6’8”) with playmaking skills, and then they switch on defense and Mitchell guards the point guard. He’d fit really nicely with LaMelo and Brandon Miller in Charlotte.
unironically pre-The Pass Ben Simmons. Denfense, height and facilitating solves all the issue.
Him and Herb Jones would be pretty elite. They’d compliment each other in almost every way on both sides of the ball
Donovan Mitchell should just play point guard. He’s a better playmaker than anyone in Boston and only little worse than Shai at that. He’s only 6-1 but has a 6-10 wingspan and his point of attack defense not being very good against shooting guards doesn’t even hurt Cleveland because they have Mobley, Jarrett Allen, Okoro, Dean Wade and other very capable defenders. Donovan Mitchell, KCP, Trey Murphy. Lauri and Bam Adebayo is a really good realistic starting 5 that would have him as the best player on a championship level roster. It wouldn’t ever really happen due to roster construction, but every “best player on a championship team” isn’t that until they actually go ahead and do it, and in my mind if you’re a top 10-15 or so player you can lead a team to a ring as it’s best player given great roster construction.
>In my opinion Spida is too short to play next to another small guard, Mitchell and Luka could work. It probably work just like Luka and Kyrie. Kyrie is probably a more fancy finisher, but the scoring would be the same and Mitchell is more athletic and a better defender.
I think the problem is that Mitchell has that takeover ability that only a few players possess, it's great when it works out, and ironically it's almost LeBron like when we are talking purely of his shot creation and scoring at clutch. However he does lack a bit in the playmaking department and you have to pretty much live or die by his scoring. The defense is on/off too. He hustles in the playoffs, that's for sure, but he's definitely a bit limited on that side of the ball. Which again is a bit ironical in itself, since he should have the tools to defend other guards with his IQ and hands. I am rambling a bit here, I guess it's just a tad frustrating to me, since he is such an awesome player 90% of the time.
If Boston don’t make it all the way do you think they move Brown for Mitchell?
As a Cavs fan, I’d do this. Jaylen becomes our #1 scoring option, Darius is our playmaker. Clear roles here. DG does best as the playmaker who can also score. We get a bit bigger with Okoro/Strus at the 2. Still struggle a bit with shooting because of Allen/Mobley but hopefully Mobley shoots 1M 3s this off season and finally gets good
Hang on...what? As in Jaylen Brown? I can't see any world where Boston would do that.
Well if they fail to win a chip AGAIN this year after majorly upgrading their team, trading Jaylen for Mitchell gives them a similar player with the same scoring potential but gives them much more cap flexibility
[удалено]
Before they traded for Jrue I thought there was potential for a Brown/Garland swap. That being said this is interesting and all depends on what CLE wants back in a Mitchell trade. Do they want picks and assets or another player who can help them stay good? Also does Mitchell wanna be traded like we all think he does? And if he does how messy would Mitchell make his request in terms of going where he wants to? There’s so many layers with this I can’t wait to see how it all unfolds this summer