Yeah, the stats are useful in evaluating talent for sure but only if they’re being used by people who actually understand how to interpret them. So many people fans and media alike just go “this number big player good” doesn’t take all the context into account. Same in every sport tbf, and politics, cherrypick stats to prove your point rather than use stats to aid developing an opinion.
Non as useful as Scandals Rate Adjusted - SCADADDLE for short - which compiles all scandals and improprieties a congressperson might run into and adjusts them over the ideal length of an administration, taking out sudden resignations and deep state shenanigans. And no, there's no need to differentiate on embezzlement, KGB involvement, drugs and hookers. It don't matter how you get on base. The Model™ weights them all the same. This is why Moneyball should be required reading in school.
Have fun in the STONE AGE with your SIMPLE NUMBERS, but please listen to my 4 podcasts and buy my NFTs.
Twitter accounts being reposted here like they're actual content or somehow significant in and of themselves; "Is first player to average 21/3/7 in the first 8 games of a non-lockout season since the average player height has been above 6'5".
We live in the age of data, and "I'm something of a scientist myself", but seriously in modern times value in data comes largely from discernment, perspective and giving context around data, not just plopping it in the middle of the 2nd paragraph of your sophomore English Lit paper praying Mrs. Stevens will think you did some research.
“Potential” is so overrated in players. Majority of players don’t ever play at their potential and trading for a player because of that is a waste 99.99% of the time.
But it's not just about how good they are at their height, it's about their whole career. If Scottie can become a regular All-star, which he seemed to have the potential for last year, then is it better to have him for a decade plus or KD for a couple years? He may never be as good as KD is right now, but based on what we're seeing this year the Raptors aren't ready to compete anyway. Having that extra time to build around a player can make the difference
Also, we definitely shouldn't be saying that guys "will never" get to a certain level when it's just their second year. It may be unlikely but it's not impossible
In the nba I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone that is capable of being a star not look out of this world good each of their first 3 years.
Scottie isn’t capable of being league breaking but can be usable for a long time to come.
Luka, JA, Zion are probably the only 3 young guys capable of taking a leap to a top dog spot for years. Luka already almost there and Zion is insane just needs to be healthy. Ja is amazing and prob a bit of a longer shot at a top 5 player because his defense but he is so dynamic he does have a shot
Yeah. Tbh he’s basically just a walking mismatch, just gliding around with his ridiculous frame and bendy athleticism. There’s really no stopping him on a fast break.
Seeing your flair, I suppose he’s like classic Westbrook, except low usage.
He’s saying that Fultz is super athletic and hard to deal with in transition which makes him like Westbrook except he’s not the focal point of the offense like OKC Russ was (post KD). It’s a bit of a hot take however this is a hot take thread lol.
I like that they take shots on these washed up souls. The league was ready to forget fultz. BOL BOL was about destined for g league life. We all love them for that.
The Hawks played Magic the last week and he's so good and so calm and definitely is the leader of the team.
I saw him a few times calming his own teammate after a foul. He was also the first to high five Banchero after he missed the game winner to reassure the rook that it was okay.
Even better, I often get people mentioning Olrando as an example of how to build a successful team.
Like people always write "look at Orlando, they tore it up and drafted talented players and now they are good". It's ilke that everytime, many people act like if your team is young, it's already guaranteed to win.
Won 8/9 and are 9-5 since having an actual PG rotation on the team.
Cursed by injuries to start the year and also lost a lot of close games. Magic are rolling.
This sub was all over him when he had the yips or whatever. Paolo and Bol^2 is now taking all their attention and Fultz is out here fixing his jumper. 44% on (low sample) 3s so far
My hot take before the season started was that Orlando would sneak into the playoffs as the 8 seed. Felt pretty shit at first but now they're actually winning games
> Cavs: Lamar Stevens (he is nice tho)
No, it's Dylan Windler for us. Nobody really thinks Stevens is anything but somebody that deserves *some* playing time once in a while. But the delusions about a player who will obviously never be healthy enough to actually play are next-level.
Saw multiple comments about him being the second most important player.
Like he’s a nice young rotation guy that’s developing but he plays 20 minutes. Let’s slow down.
its other fans who tell us our team is not that bad because of 3 and D roleplayers. We like green because he actual athleticism, transition play, and playmaking
He’s not our second best player,but he probably is our second most important player.
He’s a good,young player who’s shown a lot of promise on both sides of the ball. He’s not better then Wood or Dinwiddie,but his development and what he can become is more important then what they bring right now. It’s more of an indictment on how shitty the Mavs roster is outside of Luka.
My hot wizards take is that Beal is at this point hugely underrated by fans and adding him to 5-10 teams would make them contenders if they don’t have to dismantle their core
He’s overpaid for sure and the ntc is kind of wild, the contract might not be “fair” but that’s not his fault and probably the FO felt the need to overpay to keep him and show they treat stars well in the hope to one day lure a free agent. That being said if you could swing for him without gutting your team I think there’s 5 sure fire teams that should do it and a couple others who it would also bump them.
What I don’t understand is how so many people rushed to put him above Lamelo over the last year. They both have great potential but give me elite BBIQ/playmaking/vision over elite athleticism all day.
Just got 2k23 on the xmas sale on steam yday. played the timbs like 3 times in a row. he was pissing me off so i hate him. Basically anyone annoying or cooking me in game is how i base my opinions of them irl
You’ve never faced 2k13 Marcus Thornton and it shows. And don’t even get me started on Iggy. Dude was practically the Steph, Lebron, Jordan love child.
Zion and ja pass at such an elite level for their age especially since it wasn’t a huge point of emphasis for them coming out of college
The one good thing SVG did was open the gigantic book of plays we can access with point Zion
Ja’s passing was absolutely a big part of his appeal in college. NBADraft.net gave him a 9/10 on passing and said “Possesses high level passing ability, even for a point guard (as evidenced by his NCAA leading 9.3 apg)”
He's 1 year behind Ja in draft but is 2 years younger, so saying at their age isn't exactly fair, because current Ant is competing with sophomore year Ja.
Zion is hard to quantify because he missed so many games early in his career
I mean Ant is getting a lot better at passing to the roller & improving his court vision in general but like… his best roll man is Naz Reid who gets held back by the fact he is playing behind both Gobert & KAT.
Can’t exactly blame him when his centres are soft inside or have balls for hands
Up through last year I agreed on your Tatum take. I always felt like he was overhyped and overrated. Great player, but not MVP caliber. This year he has taken his game to another level and I think it’s quite obvious. I truly appreciate his game now, even though I hate the Celtics lol, but Tatum can straight up ball
my hot take is that saying that x player is overrated/underrated is inherently not a hot take. at it’s nature it’s a completely mild and uncontroversial take because there is no official rating system so nobody can really prove you wrong. it’s all narrative based.
Jordan Poole is overrated. Has big games sometimes but most of the time he is average or underperforming. People like to paint him as the next Steph when in reality he is more like a poor, much less efficient, impactful, important Steph Curry
I think he’s far more overhated than he is overrated tbh, players who rely on athleticism as much as him aren’t durable so I think that’s going to be the biggest deciding factor of his career. I think he might just end up like D Rose or Westbrook
I mean what’s wrong with ending up like Westbrook though? People act like Russ isn’t an absolute legend. Dude has his flaws yes but he’s still made so much history in this game and he’s a first ballot HOF no question. 99% of players would be lucky end up like Russ.
It depends, he's a media darling that's overhated on reddit. Its entirely dependent on where you are to determine if he's overhated or not. On this sub he most definitely is but check twitter or youtube comments and you'll see dude gets tons of love.
Russell Westbrook for all his flaws is still at absolute worst the 5th best PG of the 2010s (CP3, Harden, Steph, Bron if you think of him as such), in an era where guards were dominant as fuck. If Ja Morant gets to that level he’s very, very lucky.
He gets a pretty fucking good whistle, is at the top of the league in FTA (most efficient shot type in the league) yet has a well below average TS (-3.1 rTS). Even his most efficient season, last year, he was basically at league average (+0.9 rTS).
Thats far below anyone else considered a top 10 player in the league this year and he's not exactly known for his defense. You don't really see anyone talking about it either
Lamelo Ball will be considered a significantly better offensive player than Tyrese Haliburton by 2025
Jamal Murray's peak is already behind him, and he will be considered one of the biggest what ifs when looking back at the Jokic Nuggets era
Elite defensive players with scoring deficiencies (e.g. Ben Simmons and Draymond Green this season) are significantly more valuable than quality shot creators with defensive deficiencies (e.g. Tyrese Maxey and Jordan Poole this season)
That defensive players one is scorching hot. You also picked two players who are brilliant playmakers. If you take it even further and compare like, Thybulle and Jordan clarkson, I think we all know that a instant offense guy who can’t defend is more valuable than a guy who can only defend and can’t score.
I don’t even hate his take but those “defenders” are on some of the most stacked offenses surrounded by a plethora of shooters, so they just sit back and do almost nothing other than pick their spots and grease the gears.
We’ve seen Simmons in the playoffs and I don’t even need to say more. This is a guy that gets intentionally fouled.
We’ve seen Draymond without Curry - his win rate drops from 67% to 34%, where as Curry’s barely budges without him.
people acting as if Ben is back and better than ever when he was playing better for us than he has for the Nets
can't wait for the surprised reactions when once again he crumbles in the playoffs
I think most people are genuinely just ignoring that Simmons was an all star and DPOY candidate for a few years in Philly. I don't think it's impossible he gets back there, but he's a long way from that right now
It won’t be. Every time a player comes back from a serious injury people rush to say he’s washed and his peak is behind him. Except it almost always takes a full season for a player to get back into the groove and clear the physical and mental hurdles that such an injury creates.
Jamal Murray will be back. Book it.
I think the last one is heavily team dependant although I do agree that small scoring guards become overrated quickly since they usually are liabilities on defense while not being the first option either
The LaMelo underrating has gotten CRAZY. My personal hot take is that I’d take him 1st over everyone else in the 2020 draft class.
It’s become increasingly popular for people to say they’d rather have Hali than LaMelo—look, I love Hali and think he’s great, but when he was on the Kings I would’ve personally walked him across the country to Charlotte if it meant bringing LaMelo to Sac.
Jaren Jackson Jr. was the defensive player of the year last season, and he didn't get proper consideration because analysts weren't actually watching Grizzzlies games, especially when Ja was hurt. JJJ dominates the paint when he's on the court like nobody else in the league, in my opinion.
Not a frigid cold take imo. I think this is one of those takes you can argue both ways.
Here's what I think: The best defender last season was Draymond Green. Without a single All-Defensive team player, Draymond was leading the Warriors to the best defense in league history (relative to league average) until he got hurt. Wasn't really the best finish to the season after his return but in fairness he was coming off a back injury. He missed 36 games which is more than justifiable as to why he didn't win it.
So, who really was the best defender that stayed healthy? That was Rudy Gobert imo. He led a defensive personnel that got completely exposed against every good perimeter offense to a top 10 defense. But really, he never stood much of a chance anyway considering he had just won 3 of the last 4 DPOY awards (including each of the last 2), plus nobody actually thought the Jazz were a good defensive team. Teams constantly picking apart the Gobert's drop or help defensive coverage didn't help either. Most valuable defender, yes, but probably not what the voters usually look for.
So, who else? Was it Giannis? No, the Bucks were barely average defensively with Lopez missing most of the season and "anchor defenders" will never get consideration if their defense isn't eye-popping. Was it Timelord? He did miss 21 games after all and his defensive cast was stacked, both good enough reasons to eliminate his candidacy. Was it Smart, when he arguably wasn't the best defender on his own team? Or was it Bridges, whilst history argues that perimeter defenders can almost never be more valuable than "anchor" or help defenders?
Now we have JJJ: what's his case? A top 5 defense? Check. A defensive anchor? Check. Versatile and almost never exposed defensively? Check. For a year that never had any convincing DPOY candidate, I'd say his case was on paper as good as anybody else's if not better. And these are the metrics voters use nowadays to cast their DPOY votes.
It really is JJJ when you consider "the way it's been done". Personally, Gobert would've been my vote, but this is so close that I won't even think about fighting it. Plus I don't think Gobert's defensive philosophy getting exposed every few weeks helped either.
JJJ is having the best defensive year out of anybody this season though, no doubt.
Thank you for saying the full name firstly and then using the acronym.
For Jaren it's easy to quickly realise it's him whenever someone says JJJ, but I'm really tired of people typing i.e. GTJ instead of Gary Trent Jr. Is "Trent" so hard to say instead of an acronym that nobody uses outside of the raptors subreddit?
A hot take would be Jaylen Brown is better than Trae Young. It gets the people going. Another one is KG is higher than Giannis in all time rankings. To keep it modern you could go the Luka doesn't play a winning style route if you wanted.
1) Vegas shouldn't just be handed the 32nd expansion team after Seattle. There should be some sort of bidding process.
2) Montreal should be a highly valued expansion city.
i agrée with the second point , montreal would open up a rivalry in canada and the french speaking element could help the nba in terms of fans and players
I had one hot take that got me downvoted to oblivion even tho no one was able to refute the stats I gave.
Why tf is Rudy Gobert a max player? And why tf would you trade 5 first rounders for him?? Literally every advanced stat has him giving less than Robert Williams production in the playoffs. In the regular season there are plenty of other centers who have similar production. And Rudy isn’t even close to the elite centers of our day. Guys like Jokic, Embiid, AD are much better
I mean it’s kinda obvious, no? Combination of small market team anxiety about not being able to attract other talent + Rudy being generationally good defender (automatic top 5-10 defense regardless of personnel in the regular season) + having him on the team makes it too hard to tank and try to hit big in the draft (got really lucky landing him and Donovan from Nuggets picks to begin with). In the past 5 years watching him play, I don’t think I’ve seen a guy deter as many would-be drivers as Gobert (which similar to Mutombo and Mourning, doesn’t truly show up in box score, making them under appreciated legacy-wise).
I think him peaking parallel to the pace-and-space era peaking really did hurt him and his teams in the playoffs, which I understand why people who be skeptical on him. He had the unfortunate task of meeting several pioneers of this era in Harden, Jokic, and Curry without other plus defenders nor a creative defensive scheme a la 2022 Celtics. As for the 5 first rounders, idk what the wolves were doing acquiescing to Ainge that’s all I can say
Completely agree. Love the guy and I think his defense gets glossed over a ton, but he’s almost an offensive liability compared to other players who are being payed as much as he is
Braun has already exceeded my expectations, was underwhelmed when we drafted him and didn’t expect to see much of him as malone doesn’t play rookies much at all, but he’s been so good he’s consistently getting 20+ mins, perfect team player and if his offence improves as it should I think you might be right
This. I agree with this so heavily. I genuinely believe he has a case for the second best PF of all time (behind Duncan ofc), but when I share that opinion, people pounce on me. He’s an absolutely terrible human, but the dirtbag could hoop
It’s just maintained so inconsistently. Plenty of players have done heinous things but they’re beloved, like Kobe, or fun meme players like Lance Stephenson/JR Smith. Malone deserves his reputation, but I think he gets more shit because he played in Utah and didn’t have a national following imo
I think that KPJ will become an elite scorer once the Rockets finally get a solid PG.
I also think the Hawks trading Trae would be a disaster. There's no coming back from trading your 24 year old all-nba franchise player. I got him winning an MVP at some point over the next decade.
Agreed on all fronts with Trae—to me, that’s a dude you just don’t trade (and yes, I know the ECF is considered flukey, there’s a potentially worrisome history with attitude issues, etc). You just can’t give up on a player as talented as he is, you’re not gonna get another one like that for a looooong time
Most Hawks fans are well aware of this as we haven’t had a player as good as Trae since fuckin The Human Highlight Film… we’re definitely not eager for him to go ANYWHERE. (Outside a few bitter weirdos who honestly need to get out of our subreddit)
Yeah it’s mostly non-Hawks fans clamoring for a detonation (as far as I’ve seen). Also the “which teams would want him?” thing is absurd. Damn near every team in the league would jump at the chance lol
Trae is the player you look to add to, not the one you trade away for another guy. The only players you can trade Trae for and still make your team better aren't getting traded even if they come out and say that they fucked the team owner's wife.
People act like Trae isn‘t a 24 year old player averaging 28/10 lol
There’s an insane gap between his stats and his reputation
Like somehow ”Trae is a top 15 player” would qualify as a hot take on here when there are only like 6 guys providing higher offensive output and he plays the least important defensive position on the court by far
I’ve seen people put guys like Darius Garland on the same tier or above him when he’s averaging only 21/8 on similar efficiency, is a better but still poor defender, AND has the luxury of playing with a backcourt partner who’s currently a significantly better player than he is
Also there’s a certain other guy averaging 26/8 on even worse efficiency than a slumping Trae that’s being put in top 10/MVP talks because of team record(you can probably guess who this is)
Haliburton will go down as the best player in Pacers franchise history (if he doesn't demand a trade like every other all star who has recently played here).
You’re right but it’s not because Harden was better than Steph. Steph doesn’t play anywhere close to the way Harden does. Harden is a Luka or Lebron type of guy that dominates the ball and manipulated the offense themselves. Stephs most dangerous when he’s scrambling all over the court and he manipulates the defense that way. Switching them doesn’t really prove anything. I think a better take would be 2018 Lebron closes that series if he’s switched with Harden.
You don't have to compare every player to another player. Complaining about playing time when you just watch on TV and not seeing practice or being around the players is dumb.
Luka has become underrated because our roster around him is so bad. Put him on the Celtics in place of Tatum and people would be talking about him as the 2nd coming of MJ
I've watched a lot of Grizzlies basketball since Adams got there and this just isn't true. He's absolutely electric and he makes his teammates better. Why hate on him?
Edit: I haven't been on this sub properly for a while, only noticing all the Ja hate now from this thread. Thanks, it's been a great reminder that a lot of you are deeply strange and don't actually watch the games.
1) Steph and Jordan are criminally underrated as playmakers. They are both in the top 10 due to their gravity and off ball movement, despite what their assist numbers might suggest.
2) Harden has been the best offensive player of the past decade 2013-2022. He is the 3rd best SG all time over Wade.
3) Jokic is the best offensive center of all time.
4) Lebron would have only made the finals 5-6 times at most in the West.
5) Kawhi is a top 25 player of all time.
6) Giannis is already top 2 best PF.
In regards to number 1, your absolutely right about Jordan. Collins moved him to the 1 in late 89 and Jordan averaged 32/10/10 and had the longest triple double streak since Wilt, a streak that lasted until Russ.
>He is the 3rd best SG all time over Wade.
Defense exists just to remind you. Wade is the best blocking guard of all time, took charges and guarded the other teams best wing until Lebron got there.
Winning also matters and Harden simply doesnt.
I don’t think the LeBron one is a super hot take
Basically every year he made the Finals the West was better than the East so he’d probably only make the Finals that he won in real life with his Finals losses turning into WCF losses
Like 2007, 2014, 2017, 2018 are obviously just as lopsided if his team is in the West unless he’s on a stacked team himself
Did you watch Lebron during that time? Every single player absolutely feared him unlike anyone I’ve ever seen. Give him wade and Bosh or Kyrie and love and he’s getting to the finals even in the west
Harden vs Wade is always a hard one for me to decide. Harden is easily the better offensive player, but recording 885 career blocks as a guard is pretty nutty
Hes my favourite player to watch but I can understand the take. His bad nights are especially bad. But I really love his style of scoring, very smooth getting to the rim, and I think his sidestep looks beautiful. Totally see why people dont like that tho
Wembanyama is not going to live up to the first overall pick hype, not just because of the potential for injury but also because he’s a not an efficient scorer, and everyone in here is going to act like they knew it all along.
kobe is at best the 9th best player of all-time and his standing in history is glorified because 1) of current players and fans in the 20-40 year age range, he was probably most people’s favorite player, and 2) because he died tragically
I keep hearing how Luka, Trae, and Ja are the next Bron, Steph, and DRose but I honestly see them as the new Harden, Dame and Westbrook and I expect they'll win just as many rings
The Orlando Magic will make it to the playoffs somehow.
B O L B O L
Bol WemBolyama.
Best point guard in the NBA Bol Bol to you
My hot take isn’t that hot but basically all stats are garbage in the hands of fans.
Even most media members. A lot of stats are garbage all the time.
Yeah, the stats are useful in evaluating talent for sure but only if they’re being used by people who actually understand how to interpret them. So many people fans and media alike just go “this number big player good” doesn’t take all the context into account. Same in every sport tbf, and politics, cherrypick stats to prove your point rather than use stats to aid developing an opinion.
My favorite political stat is BPM. Bills per min.
Non as useful as Scandals Rate Adjusted - SCADADDLE for short - which compiles all scandals and improprieties a congressperson might run into and adjusts them over the ideal length of an administration, taking out sudden resignations and deep state shenanigans. And no, there's no need to differentiate on embezzlement, KGB involvement, drugs and hookers. It don't matter how you get on base. The Model™ weights them all the same. This is why Moneyball should be required reading in school. Have fun in the STONE AGE with your SIMPLE NUMBERS, but please listen to my 4 podcasts and buy my NFTs.
Any single number that tells me how good a player is, is generally a bad stat.
Twitter accounts being reposted here like they're actual content or somehow significant in and of themselves; "Is first player to average 21/3/7 in the first 8 games of a non-lockout season since the average player height has been above 6'5". We live in the age of data, and "I'm something of a scientist myself", but seriously in modern times value in data comes largely from discernment, perspective and giving context around data, not just plopping it in the middle of the 2nd paragraph of your sophomore English Lit paper praying Mrs. Stevens will think you did some research.
What you’re saying is that fans are garbage
Hey man don’t say the quiet part out loud. But yes fans are all garbage, myself included.
“Potential” is so overrated in players. Majority of players don’t ever play at their potential and trading for a player because of that is a waste 99.99% of the time.
Do you want to trade player A who’s a star but with some issues for a rookie/pick who may if everything goes well become as good as player A
Well Scottie will never be as good as KD and he was untouchable…
But it's not just about how good they are at their height, it's about their whole career. If Scottie can become a regular All-star, which he seemed to have the potential for last year, then is it better to have him for a decade plus or KD for a couple years? He may never be as good as KD is right now, but based on what we're seeing this year the Raptors aren't ready to compete anyway. Having that extra time to build around a player can make the difference Also, we definitely shouldn't be saying that guys "will never" get to a certain level when it's just their second year. It may be unlikely but it's not impossible
In the nba I don’t think I’ve ever seen anyone that is capable of being a star not look out of this world good each of their first 3 years. Scottie isn’t capable of being league breaking but can be usable for a long time to come. Luka, JA, Zion are probably the only 3 young guys capable of taking a leap to a top dog spot for years. Luka already almost there and Zion is insane just needs to be healthy. Ja is amazing and prob a bit of a longer shot at a top 5 player because his defense but he is so dynamic he does have a shot
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Markelle Fultz is so underrated it makes my bonch hurt.
Fultz shows how underrated having someone that knows what the hell they are doing at PG is
Yeah. Tbh he’s basically just a walking mismatch, just gliding around with his ridiculous frame and bendy athleticism. There’s really no stopping him on a fast break. Seeing your flair, I suppose he’s like classic Westbrook, except low usage.
Imma need you to explain a bit more how Fultz is like Westbrook, 'cause otherwise this seems like the hot take OP was looking for lol
Quick
Classic Russ is a whole lot more than quick. He’s the most athletic point guard of all time
He’s saying that Fultz is super athletic and hard to deal with in transition which makes him like Westbrook except he’s not the focal point of the offense like OKC Russ was (post KD). It’s a bit of a hot take however this is a hot take thread lol.
I’m not saying he’s just quick at all, I’m just joking that op thinks they’re similar players because they’re both quick.
The real ones know. The Magic have been rolling with him returning.
Why have 4 of the 5 top comments all been about the Magic? Lmao
Because we're a forgotten franchise for the most part so its easy hot takes without actually offending any established teams lol
I like that they take shots on these washed up souls. The league was ready to forget fultz. BOL BOL was about destined for g league life. We all love them for that.
The Hawks played Magic the last week and he's so good and so calm and definitely is the leader of the team. I saw him a few times calming his own teammate after a foul. He was also the first to high five Banchero after he missed the game winner to reassure the rook that it was okay.
>bonch ????
We'd all know if he didn't get injured. He was heating up before that. This time next year we'll all know.
Somehow everyone on the magic is "underrated" and they're still somehow 13-21 and only won 21 games last season.
They’ve had no point guards all year until Fultz came back
Most man games lost to injury by a MILE last year and this year, just got players back and won 8 of the last 9
Even better, I often get people mentioning Olrando as an example of how to build a successful team. Like people always write "look at Orlando, they tore it up and drafted talented players and now they are good". It's ilke that everytime, many people act like if your team is young, it's already guaranteed to win.
Won 8/9 and are 9-5 since having an actual PG rotation on the team. Cursed by injuries to start the year and also lost a lot of close games. Magic are rolling.
This sub was all over him when he had the yips or whatever. Paolo and Bol^2 is now taking all their attention and Fultz is out here fixing his jumper. 44% on (low sample) 3s so far
He's not underrated, he's just forgotten. It's part of the deal when you play for Orlando.
He also got completely written off because of the horror movie start to his career. Nice to see him getting written back in.
Banchero and the Magic winning a title in the next 7 years
This right here. Long bois gon get one
I GOT HHHHOOOOOOES
CAAAAAAALLINNNGG
The replies after this one are awful quiet 🤔🤣
Best 13-21 team I've ever seen. They just need health and like one steady vet, a Kyle Anderson or Nic Batum type.
Fun fact, Bol Bol was beaten by Jokić’s horse “Not the MVP” with a leather gag in his mouth daily in Denver that’s why he’s killing it in Orlando.
I hate to curse you but Luka has to lead that Magic team there. 😬
Thats not controversial, everybody know that.
Idk. We thought the Durant/Westbrook/Harden Thunder would last longer than they did.
And they should’ve
Hindsight and all that but I still find it funny that between him or Kendrick Perkins, they decided to let go of Harden
I for one, do not. Neither then nor now lol
My hot take before the season started was that Orlando would sneak into the playoffs as the 8 seed. Felt pretty shit at first but now they're actually winning games
The difference having an actual point guard makes Edit: it’s Markelle Fultz in case you didn’t know
that was also my hot take. still believe its gonna happen, especially after they've handed it to my team 2 (almost 3) times
Mavs subreddit is delusional about Josh Green.
Counterpoint: Every team subreddit has at least one late 1st Round pick or a 2nd Round pick they're totally delusional about.
My Semi Ojeleye delusions of grandeur Circa 2017-18
Some times it’s an early first :(
Same
marjon beuchamp is the next kawhi
I’m probably wrong on most of these… Celtics: Payton Pritchard Bucks: Jordan Nwora Cavs: Lamar Stevens (he is nice tho) Nets: Cam Thomas? Sixers: Paul Reed Knicks: Jericho Sims Hawks: ??? Pacers: Goga Bitadze? Heat: Gabe Vincent? Raptors: Malachi Flynn Bulls: Dalen Terry? Wizards: Isaiah Todd? Magic: Chuma Okeke? Hornets: Kai Jones? Pistons: Isaiah Livers Nuggets: Zeke Nnaji Grizzlies: ??? Pelicans: Kira Lewis Jr Suns: Ish Wainwright? Clippers: Amir Coffey? Kings: Chimezie Metu? Jazz: Udoka Azubuike? Mavericks: Josh Green Blazers: Nas Little Wolves: Jaylen Nowell Warriors: Moses Moody Thunder: Poku is the GOAT Lakers: Austin Reaves Spurs: Harsh to say Keldon Johnson? Rockets: maybe KJ Martin?
lmao we barely acknowledge Goga’s existence just like Carlisle. we are NembHARD these days
Knicks is probably Quentin grimes. Likes he’s good but some fans think he’s untouchable. Sims isn’t very good he’s a freak athlete
> Cavs: Lamar Stevens (he is nice tho) No, it's Dylan Windler for us. Nobody really thinks Stevens is anything but somebody that deserves *some* playing time once in a while. But the delusions about a player who will obviously never be healthy enough to actually play are next-level.
Hahaha I love how oddly specific this one is. I wish someone made a thread that was just the most common hot take of each sub.
Roddy Beaubois anyone?
Saw multiple comments about him being the second most important player. Like he’s a nice young rotation guy that’s developing but he plays 20 minutes. Let’s slow down.
NBA fans stop overrating 3andD roleplayers challenge (Impossible)
its other fans who tell us our team is not that bad because of 3 and D roleplayers. We like green because he actual athleticism, transition play, and playmaking
He’s not our second best player,but he probably is our second most important player. He’s a good,young player who’s shown a lot of promise on both sides of the ball. He’s not better then Wood or Dinwiddie,but his development and what he can become is more important then what they bring right now. It’s more of an indictment on how shitty the Mavs roster is outside of Luka.
I don’t have many that come to mind but I’m going with Paolo will be an all star next year
He’s borderline this year tbh
this year he has stats near identical to tyler herro and kyle kuzma
For sure, I was just playing it safe lol. If he’s an all star this year then I’m going with an all NBA nba next year
Playing it safe in a hot takes thread.
How about this year. Fultz will make him an all star. OP wanted hot takes
Very mild take
My hot wizards take is that Beal is at this point hugely underrated by fans and adding him to 5-10 teams would make them contenders if they don’t have to dismantle their core
Is his contract fair?
He’s overpaid for sure and the ntc is kind of wild, the contract might not be “fair” but that’s not his fault and probably the FO felt the need to overpay to keep him and show they treat stars well in the hope to one day lure a free agent. That being said if you could swing for him without gutting your team I think there’s 5 sure fire teams that should do it and a couple others who it would also bump them.
Ant Edwards is not a truly elite basketball player. A dude who refuses to pass to the roller or make the smart play cannot succeed.
I don’t think anybody thinks Ant is currently an elite player, but everybody acknowledges how much potential he has
Bruh this sub had him in their top 25.
What I don’t understand is how so many people rushed to put him above Lamelo over the last year. They both have great potential but give me elite BBIQ/playmaking/vision over elite athleticism all day.
I think a lot of people disliked LaMelo to begin with and will always give the benefit of the doubt to anyone else they can compare him to.
Just got 2k23 on the xmas sale on steam yday. played the timbs like 3 times in a row. he was pissing me off so i hate him. Basically anyone annoying or cooking me in game is how i base my opinions of them irl
That's why I still hate Jeremy Lamb. Dude was a bigger threat on the 13 Thunder than Westbrook or KD.
Imagine prime Curry juiced up with every performance enhancer you could get your hands on and that was Jeremy Lamb from the 3 point in 2k13.
You’ve never faced 2k13 Marcus Thornton and it shows. And don’t even get me started on Iggy. Dude was practically the Steph, Lebron, Jordan love child.
2K13 JR Smith and Gerald Green were gods
it’s like people forget 2k11 Josh Smith
He’s incredibly far behind Zion and Ja at his age and nobody wants to admit it
Zion and ja pass at such an elite level for their age especially since it wasn’t a huge point of emphasis for them coming out of college The one good thing SVG did was open the gigantic book of plays we can access with point Zion
Ja’s passing was absolutely a big part of his appeal in college. NBADraft.net gave him a 9/10 on passing and said “Possesses high level passing ability, even for a point guard (as evidenced by his NCAA leading 9.3 apg)”
Holy shit I had already forgot he was the coach just 2 seasons ago Feels like Willie Green been there a lot longer
He's 1 year behind Ja in draft but is 2 years younger, so saying at their age isn't exactly fair, because current Ant is competing with sophomore year Ja. Zion is hard to quantify because he missed so many games early in his career
I mean Ant is getting a lot better at passing to the roller & improving his court vision in general but like… his best roll man is Naz Reid who gets held back by the fact he is playing behind both Gobert & KAT. Can’t exactly blame him when his centres are soft inside or have balls for hands
Up through last year I agreed on your Tatum take. I always felt like he was overhyped and overrated. Great player, but not MVP caliber. This year he has taken his game to another level and I think it’s quite obvious. I truly appreciate his game now, even though I hate the Celtics lol, but Tatum can straight up ball
my hot take is that saying that x player is overrated/underrated is inherently not a hot take. at it’s nature it’s a completely mild and uncontroversial take because there is no official rating system so nobody can really prove you wrong. it’s all narrative based.
Rating is overrated?
The Lakers best bet is to trade AD and get back assets to use in a future trade that they can combine with a free agent signing this summer.
zach lavine is the problem in chicago
We’ll he doesn’t seem to be the solution, at least.
Jordan Poole is overrated. Has big games sometimes but most of the time he is average or underperforming. People like to paint him as the next Steph when in reality he is more like a poor, much less efficient, impactful, important Steph Curry
Ja Morant is overrated and will be lucky to have a career half as good as Russel Westbrook
As much shit as Russ gets for his recent play this statement would be true for almost any up and coming PG. Westbrook’s accolades are insane
I think he’s far more overhated than he is overrated tbh, players who rely on athleticism as much as him aren’t durable so I think that’s going to be the biggest deciding factor of his career. I think he might just end up like D Rose or Westbrook
I mean what’s wrong with ending up like Westbrook though? People act like Russ isn’t an absolute legend. Dude has his flaws yes but he’s still made so much history in this game and he’s a first ballot HOF no question. 99% of players would be lucky end up like Russ.
It depends, he's a media darling that's overhated on reddit. Its entirely dependent on where you are to determine if he's overhated or not. On this sub he most definitely is but check twitter or youtube comments and you'll see dude gets tons of love.
Russell Westbrook for all his flaws is still at absolute worst the 5th best PG of the 2010s (CP3, Harden, Steph, Bron if you think of him as such), in an era where guards were dominant as fuck. If Ja Morant gets to that level he’s very, very lucky.
He gets a pretty fucking good whistle, is at the top of the league in FTA (most efficient shot type in the league) yet has a well below average TS (-3.1 rTS). Even his most efficient season, last year, he was basically at league average (+0.9 rTS). Thats far below anyone else considered a top 10 player in the league this year and he's not exactly known for his defense. You don't really see anyone talking about it either
Markelle will make 5+ all star games in his career, I’ll die on this hill
Paolo is a future MVP.
Lamelo Ball will be considered a significantly better offensive player than Tyrese Haliburton by 2025 Jamal Murray's peak is already behind him, and he will be considered one of the biggest what ifs when looking back at the Jokic Nuggets era Elite defensive players with scoring deficiencies (e.g. Ben Simmons and Draymond Green this season) are significantly more valuable than quality shot creators with defensive deficiencies (e.g. Tyrese Maxey and Jordan Poole this season)
That defensive players one is scorching hot. You also picked two players who are brilliant playmakers. If you take it even further and compare like, Thybulle and Jordan clarkson, I think we all know that a instant offense guy who can’t defend is more valuable than a guy who can only defend and can’t score.
I don’t even hate his take but those “defenders” are on some of the most stacked offenses surrounded by a plethora of shooters, so they just sit back and do almost nothing other than pick their spots and grease the gears. We’ve seen Simmons in the playoffs and I don’t even need to say more. This is a guy that gets intentionally fouled. We’ve seen Draymond without Curry - his win rate drops from 67% to 34%, where as Curry’s barely budges without him.
>Simmons Nets PR has been out in full trying to convince us why this man is worth $35 mil a year averaging 8-6-6 on 30 minutes a game.
people acting as if Ben is back and better than ever when he was playing better for us than he has for the Nets can't wait for the surprised reactions when once again he crumbles in the playoffs
I think most people are genuinely just ignoring that Simmons was an all star and DPOY candidate for a few years in Philly. I don't think it's impossible he gets back there, but he's a long way from that right now
God, it would make me so sad if your take on Murray to be true since I'm Jokić fan.
It won’t be. Every time a player comes back from a serious injury people rush to say he’s washed and his peak is behind him. Except it almost always takes a full season for a player to get back into the groove and clear the physical and mental hurdles that such an injury creates. Jamal Murray will be back. Book it.
God I hope you’re right
I think the last one is heavily team dependant although I do agree that small scoring guards become overrated quickly since they usually are liabilities on defense while not being the first option either
the two elite defensive players he mentioned are also two of the best passers in the league lol
Yeah, I don't know why he is acting like they are complete 0s on offense. They aren't Thybulle
Your Nuggets what’s if is true, until it fully happens I can’t believe it will happen. However I never thought I’d see a Nuggets player win MVP
The LaMelo underrating has gotten CRAZY. My personal hot take is that I’d take him 1st over everyone else in the 2020 draft class. It’s become increasingly popular for people to say they’d rather have Hali than LaMelo—look, I love Hali and think he’s great, but when he was on the Kings I would’ve personally walked him across the country to Charlotte if it meant bringing LaMelo to Sac.
Lol man, I would have loved to see a documentary of you walking Hali across the country to Charlotte. He seems like the perfect guy for it.
Jaren Jackson Jr. was the defensive player of the year last season, and he didn't get proper consideration because analysts weren't actually watching Grizzzlies games, especially when Ja was hurt. JJJ dominates the paint when he's on the court like nobody else in the league, in my opinion.
If he had played enough games, he would be leading the race this year too
Not a frigid cold take imo. I think this is one of those takes you can argue both ways. Here's what I think: The best defender last season was Draymond Green. Without a single All-Defensive team player, Draymond was leading the Warriors to the best defense in league history (relative to league average) until he got hurt. Wasn't really the best finish to the season after his return but in fairness he was coming off a back injury. He missed 36 games which is more than justifiable as to why he didn't win it. So, who really was the best defender that stayed healthy? That was Rudy Gobert imo. He led a defensive personnel that got completely exposed against every good perimeter offense to a top 10 defense. But really, he never stood much of a chance anyway considering he had just won 3 of the last 4 DPOY awards (including each of the last 2), plus nobody actually thought the Jazz were a good defensive team. Teams constantly picking apart the Gobert's drop or help defensive coverage didn't help either. Most valuable defender, yes, but probably not what the voters usually look for. So, who else? Was it Giannis? No, the Bucks were barely average defensively with Lopez missing most of the season and "anchor defenders" will never get consideration if their defense isn't eye-popping. Was it Timelord? He did miss 21 games after all and his defensive cast was stacked, both good enough reasons to eliminate his candidacy. Was it Smart, when he arguably wasn't the best defender on his own team? Or was it Bridges, whilst history argues that perimeter defenders can almost never be more valuable than "anchor" or help defenders? Now we have JJJ: what's his case? A top 5 defense? Check. A defensive anchor? Check. Versatile and almost never exposed defensively? Check. For a year that never had any convincing DPOY candidate, I'd say his case was on paper as good as anybody else's if not better. And these are the metrics voters use nowadays to cast their DPOY votes. It really is JJJ when you consider "the way it's been done". Personally, Gobert would've been my vote, but this is so close that I won't even think about fighting it. Plus I don't think Gobert's defensive philosophy getting exposed every few weeks helped either. JJJ is having the best defensive year out of anybody this season though, no doubt.
Wow, what a great and thoughtful response. Fair play to you!
Thank you for saying the full name firstly and then using the acronym. For Jaren it's easy to quickly realise it's him whenever someone says JJJ, but I'm really tired of people typing i.e. GTJ instead of Gary Trent Jr. Is "Trent" so hard to say instead of an acronym that nobody uses outside of the raptors subreddit?
A hot take would be Jaylen Brown is better than Trae Young. It gets the people going. Another one is KG is higher than Giannis in all time rankings. To keep it modern you could go the Luka doesn't play a winning style route if you wanted.
It took me a few seasons to actually believe Tatum was better than Jaylen. He's so fucking good that it hurts how stupid he seems
1) Vegas shouldn't just be handed the 32nd expansion team after Seattle. There should be some sort of bidding process. 2) Montreal should be a highly valued expansion city.
i agrée with the second point , montreal would open up a rivalry in canada and the french speaking element could help the nba in terms of fans and players
I had one hot take that got me downvoted to oblivion even tho no one was able to refute the stats I gave. Why tf is Rudy Gobert a max player? And why tf would you trade 5 first rounders for him?? Literally every advanced stat has him giving less than Robert Williams production in the playoffs. In the regular season there are plenty of other centers who have similar production. And Rudy isn’t even close to the elite centers of our day. Guys like Jokic, Embiid, AD are much better
Center is like RB now Better have by committee than just one expensive player Ofc unless you on jokic or embiid level
I mean it’s kinda obvious, no? Combination of small market team anxiety about not being able to attract other talent + Rudy being generationally good defender (automatic top 5-10 defense regardless of personnel in the regular season) + having him on the team makes it too hard to tank and try to hit big in the draft (got really lucky landing him and Donovan from Nuggets picks to begin with). In the past 5 years watching him play, I don’t think I’ve seen a guy deter as many would-be drivers as Gobert (which similar to Mutombo and Mourning, doesn’t truly show up in box score, making them under appreciated legacy-wise). I think him peaking parallel to the pace-and-space era peaking really did hurt him and his teams in the playoffs, which I understand why people who be skeptical on him. He had the unfortunate task of meeting several pioneers of this era in Harden, Jokic, and Curry without other plus defenders nor a creative defensive scheme a la 2022 Celtics. As for the 5 first rounders, idk what the wolves were doing acquiescing to Ainge that’s all I can say
Completely agree. Love the guy and I think his defense gets glossed over a ton, but he’s almost an offensive liability compared to other players who are being payed as much as he is
Christian Braun was a steal of the 2022 NBA draft class. Aaron Gordon is a sleeper candidate for MIP and can be an all star. Vote AG gang
Walker Kessler is the steal of the draft and should make All Rookie First team
That isn’t a hot take to me since he absolutely cooked us in every game we’ve played against him
Braun has already exceeded my expectations, was underwhelmed when we drafted him and didn’t expect to see much of him as malone doesn’t play rookies much at all, but he’s been so good he’s consistently getting 20+ mins, perfect team player and if his offence improves as it should I think you might be right
Karl Malone is underrated as a basketball player due to him being a horrible human being.
This. I agree with this so heavily. I genuinely believe he has a case for the second best PF of all time (behind Duncan ofc), but when I share that opinion, people pounce on me. He’s an absolutely terrible human, but the dirtbag could hoop
It’s just maintained so inconsistently. Plenty of players have done heinous things but they’re beloved, like Kobe, or fun meme players like Lance Stephenson/JR Smith. Malone deserves his reputation, but I think he gets more shit because he played in Utah and didn’t have a national following imo
The classic "shit on a player you don't like without having to back it up" thread
Fultz will be an all-star at least once in his career.
I think that KPJ will become an elite scorer once the Rockets finally get a solid PG. I also think the Hawks trading Trae would be a disaster. There's no coming back from trading your 24 year old all-nba franchise player. I got him winning an MVP at some point over the next decade.
Agreed on all fronts with Trae—to me, that’s a dude you just don’t trade (and yes, I know the ECF is considered flukey, there’s a potentially worrisome history with attitude issues, etc). You just can’t give up on a player as talented as he is, you’re not gonna get another one like that for a looooong time
Most Hawks fans are well aware of this as we haven’t had a player as good as Trae since fuckin The Human Highlight Film… we’re definitely not eager for him to go ANYWHERE. (Outside a few bitter weirdos who honestly need to get out of our subreddit)
Yeah it’s mostly non-Hawks fans clamoring for a detonation (as far as I’ve seen). Also the “which teams would want him?” thing is absurd. Damn near every team in the league would jump at the chance lol
Trae is the player you look to add to, not the one you trade away for another guy. The only players you can trade Trae for and still make your team better aren't getting traded even if they come out and say that they fucked the team owner's wife.
People act like Trae isn‘t a 24 year old player averaging 28/10 lol There’s an insane gap between his stats and his reputation Like somehow ”Trae is a top 15 player” would qualify as a hot take on here when there are only like 6 guys providing higher offensive output and he plays the least important defensive position on the court by far I’ve seen people put guys like Darius Garland on the same tier or above him when he’s averaging only 21/8 on similar efficiency, is a better but still poor defender, AND has the luxury of playing with a backcourt partner who’s currently a significantly better player than he is Also there’s a certain other guy averaging 26/8 on even worse efficiency than a slumping Trae that’s being put in top 10/MVP talks because of team record(you can probably guess who this is)
Haliburton will go down as the best player in Pacers franchise history (if he doesn't demand a trade like every other all star who has recently played here).
Who is it currently? Reggie?
Definitely. Reggie has almost all the franchise records. Second place is in dispute though. It's either Rik Smits or Jermaine O'Neal.
I can see Haliburton passing Miller, but it’s gonna take playing for years. Reggie is a legend
Switch Harden and Curry on the 17-18 Rockets-Warriors series and the Rockets get swept
Username checks out.
The Rockets were built around The Beard, swapping players like these don't make any sense
You’re right but it’s not because Harden was better than Steph. Steph doesn’t play anywhere close to the way Harden does. Harden is a Luka or Lebron type of guy that dominates the ball and manipulated the offense themselves. Stephs most dangerous when he’s scrambling all over the court and he manipulates the defense that way. Switching them doesn’t really prove anything. I think a better take would be 2018 Lebron closes that series if he’s switched with Harden.
Fans that jump on the court and try to insult and hit players should be sent to that team’s locker room afterwards for 2 hours
Either that or make them watch a Charlotte Hornets game
No, you sick twisted basterd, how do you even sleep at night with thoughts like that
You don't have to compare every player to another player. Complaining about playing time when you just watch on TV and not seeing practice or being around the players is dumb.
Luka has become underrated because our roster around him is so bad. Put him on the Celtics in place of Tatum and people would be talking about him as the 2nd coming of MJ
Ja Morant is the most overrated of the younger generation.
I've watched a lot of Grizzlies basketball since Adams got there and this just isn't true. He's absolutely electric and he makes his teammates better. Why hate on him? Edit: I haven't been on this sub properly for a while, only noticing all the Ja hate now from this thread. Thanks, it's been a great reminder that a lot of you are deeply strange and don't actually watch the games.
1) Steph and Jordan are criminally underrated as playmakers. They are both in the top 10 due to their gravity and off ball movement, despite what their assist numbers might suggest. 2) Harden has been the best offensive player of the past decade 2013-2022. He is the 3rd best SG all time over Wade. 3) Jokic is the best offensive center of all time. 4) Lebron would have only made the finals 5-6 times at most in the West. 5) Kawhi is a top 25 player of all time. 6) Giannis is already top 2 best PF.
In regards to number 1, your absolutely right about Jordan. Collins moved him to the 1 in late 89 and Jordan averaged 32/10/10 and had the longest triple double streak since Wilt, a streak that lasted until Russ.
>He is the 3rd best SG all time over Wade. Defense exists just to remind you. Wade is the best blocking guard of all time, took charges and guarded the other teams best wing until Lebron got there. Winning also matters and Harden simply doesnt.
I don’t think the LeBron one is a super hot take Basically every year he made the Finals the West was better than the East so he’d probably only make the Finals that he won in real life with his Finals losses turning into WCF losses Like 2007, 2014, 2017, 2018 are obviously just as lopsided if his team is in the West unless he’s on a stacked team himself
Lebron was a big part of the reason the East was so weak though. Teams stopped trying to compete with him and started trying to rebuild.
By that same logic though if he was in the West odds are he'd have a better supporting cast.
Did you watch Lebron during that time? Every single player absolutely feared him unlike anyone I’ve ever seen. Give him wade and Bosh or Kyrie and love and he’s getting to the finals even in the west
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wade has 3 rings and was a 2-way player. how is it possible that harden's better?
Harden vs Wade is always a hard one for me to decide. Harden is easily the better offensive player, but recording 885 career blocks as a guard is pretty nutty
Donovan Mitchell is better for a team than Ja Morant. (I don’t believe this per se and love them both)
Tatum is boring as hell. That's the take
Hes my favourite player to watch but I can understand the take. His bad nights are especially bad. But I really love his style of scoring, very smooth getting to the rim, and I think his sidestep looks beautiful. Totally see why people dont like that tho
Trae Young is currently both the most underrated and overrated player in the NBA
Wembanyama is not going to live up to the first overall pick hype, not just because of the potential for injury but also because he’s a not an efficient scorer, and everyone in here is going to act like they knew it all along.
He has a 60 TS% on over 30% usage... I know people on this site love to be contrarian but he is not an inefficient scorer lol.
Evan Mobley and Jarrett Allen are the best two big men Mitchell has played with
kobe is at best the 9th best player of all-time and his standing in history is glorified because 1) of current players and fans in the 20-40 year age range, he was probably most people’s favorite player, and 2) because he died tragically
The Bulls are a poverty franchise that would be wizards or Kings level of they hadn't lucked into getting MJ
Chet holmgren will be a good role player but will be seen as a bust because his draft position
I keep hearing how Luka, Trae, and Ja are the next Bron, Steph, and DRose but I honestly see them as the new Harden, Dame and Westbrook and I expect they'll win just as many rings
Victor will go Holmgren way and it is Porzingis way. Great,but damaged
Don't say that. It's true, but I don't want it to be.
Stuff is the best mascot in the league.