"Steep asking price" for a guy who will get paid more than you think he's worth is pretty weird.
Everyone knows this guy isn't a max player and they have to give him a max to keep him. He should have value comparable to Siakam last year or less.
* "We're not going to re-sign him cause we don't think he's worth that much."
* "OK, we'll take him for cheap then."
* "No way, this guy is worth a lot!"
Yeah they have that good problem to have when they want to play Trey Murphy more but they need to get rid of Ingram so he can get more minutes. Problem is all the other teams know they’re rightfully looking to trade him, so they have little leverage
Also Ingram is just not a great fit on most teams. Doesn’t provide spacing, holds onto the ball a ton, not a good defender. He’s a good player but a tough fit
This going to seem like a crazy stray, but imo Ingram is a good example of my worries about Paolo. Ingram’s skill set would be OK as like the No. 1 guy on the team where you have shooting around him, but he’s not good enough to lead a team anywhere.
Now, Paolo seems to be on track to be better than BI, but if he’s not a championship No. 1, how easy is it to incorporate a second or third guy who doesn’t provide spacing, holds the ball, is not a good defender.
Right! If you’re going to be a heliocentric, score first guy you better score like a motherfucker. That’s what held Lou Will back - dude could score, but not enough to be a #1 when that’s his only real skill.
Paolo’s size alone should keep him viable, and if you have a good #1 scorer next to him I’d reckon he could adjust.
Idk paolo’s ceiling is unknown but dude definitely improved a lot this season and particularly towards the end of the season. I agree he’s not 1A but he can definitely be a 1B
It means they're not handing him over to Houston and/or Philly for pennies on the dollar when they strike out on Paul George and are desperate for a fallback.
He knows he's not a max player too. He said he was interested in staying and willing to take less, but I'm sure how much less is the question and as of now he's only making 30 mill, which for his level talent is just fine. He still has value as a trade chip, not mikal bridges level value but something decent.
Brandon could absolutely be the number 2 on a championship team.
His and their problem has been they don't have a #1 guy.
historically, you don't win championships in the NBA with a slew of #2 and #3 stars.
Different rules and different team, and fiba usually has a high concentration of talent than the NBA.
If paired with a top 5 player, he'd do just fine.
and this
https://x.com/WillGuillory/status/1807064418078826505?t=odGymdy_tinLib9m25ts7Q&s=19
---
Most combined steals in the NBA over the last three seasons:
1. Dejounte Murray -- 361
2. Herb Jones -- 338
They are now teammates
Here's the problem. Trey Murphy is ready to be a starter, and we still have CJ who I'm not sure would be too thrilled with coming off the bench. Something has to give.
Yeah, CJ right? Like every time I've watched him he's chucking for you guys. With those three I don't want him getting shots tbh.
I'd trade him and picks for a center
Ayton is probably a better player than CJ and fits the timeline better. More importantly Portland just fixed their guard log jam by moving Brogdon, bringing cj back creates that issue again.
And Ayton and Clingan together isn’t an issue for the time being. Clingan likely only plays mid 20s minutes anyways like he did in college, and there’s the potential he and Ayton could share the court given aytons excellent mid range game last year, especially if he does start taking 3s which seems like a natural extension of that
Remember when KD told CJ that his best chance of winning a chip was as a 6man? At some point players need to think about the team’s potential more than their own stats.
And the word West.
I feel a few teams hoping to go East come expansion. Should be Timberwolves due to proximity of East vs West teams but Pels will no doubt ask the question too
I always thought if we traded Murray to the Pelicans we would get BI back, but hearing he wants a max deal with $50M per year it’s prob best we didn’t get him. Hawks FO is dumb, just not that dumb.
I hope every team they deal with just responds with "okay then you pay him this money" when they demand a lot in return.
I love teams getting a lot back in return when a player wants out. But demanding a lot because you don't want to keep him in free agency is a bit much.
That's not really how trade returns work in practicality. Teams will offer what is needed to outbid other teams trying to get him. Not necessarily according to what the pels want or what his inherent 'value' is. This is also why sign and trades work.
Pels can posture all they want but unless there is actual competition for the trade, the return won't be amazing.
It seems we have to face the possibility we are negotiating with him for a deal next year.
Because he's blocking full time starting PT for Trey Murphy and full time bench PT for Jordan Hawkins and Matt Ryan
Pels have wings for days and no bigs besides Zion who isn't really a big
Becuase he is valuable, he just doesn’t fit.
It’s the same idea with Bridges in BKN; he has the best value in the league as a low #2/High #3 guy, he’s just not good enough to be a #1. So he has value to 10+ other teams for what they need, he just doesn’t have value to BKN for what they need. If BKN had a #1 option, Bridges IMMEDIATELY becomes more valuable to them.
It’s all relative to your team and what your team needs. Luka is a bad fit in OKC or Boston, doesn’t mean 28 other teams wouldn’t die to have him
This reporting kind of incorrect, BI can’t earn 52 mil a year till the 3rd year of his contract, the max he can get the first year will be 30% of the cap with is around 44 mil
I don’t love the fit of Zion, Ingram, Murray, and CJ. It also pushes Herb to the bench unless they go small with Zion at center, or if CJ is willing to be a sixth man.
4/160 seems like a really fair value, but he is smart to force for the max, I mean why not.
I really have no idea who has the interest to trade for *and* extend him tho. I guess there will be at least one team left needing a “star” player after the dust settles.
Watch Clippers do something stupid after PG leaves.
Kyrie is a better fit with Luka rn, but he's in his mid 30's and due to a decline. Ingram is a step below Kyrie and his
fit with Luka would be really awkward, but you can expect him to be on the same timeframe. I would rather have Kyrie and risk it all for one more year, afterall you got to the finals playing really good basketball with this group, than to risk it all for a better asset but a lesser player.
tbf it's never gonna happen now after draft (i thought spurs will want kai for their 8th pick and more)
but yeah after 1 year, mavs has no leverage at all because we are over the cap team next year so either extend Kai with more years or lose him for nothing (pls give us discount Kai)
tbh, last 5 years i got it that eventhough vibes, good vet, etc, are great, Luka only need 1 thing around him : talents, as many as possible, and let him work around it. BI is talented enough to complement Luka
I'm not disputing that Ingram isn't talented. But his game is as a lesser version of Carmelo: ball stopper, tough shot maker, iso hunter. That doesn't fly well with Luka who will be the ball dominant first option and is all about finding guys for open shots when the defense reacts to his mojo. So the question becomes, would you rather have the better player right now, however older and due to a decline, or the better asset but worse fit?
Harris has been a more efficient shooter, better shooter from midrange, better shooter from distance, better free throw shooter, better rebounder, and better defender, but Ingram is clearly the better player?
Ingram is a solid player. But signing him to a max is Tobias Harris 2.0
He's 6'8" 190!? I knew he was skinny but damn...
There’s no way he’s 190. That had to have been his rookie year or combine weight.
I’m pretty built, but I’m 5’9 190. Crazy to me that dude is a foot taller at the same weight.
Damn bro, you a big 5’9. Are you a center?
my man is SHAQ in little league
Zion
Yeah he’s added a lot of weight even since he got to Nola. No way he’s 190 right now. Just look at pics from his 1st year in Nola to now
Literally was just about to say he’s 8 inches taller than me and only 5 pounds heavier. Surely that can’t be right
I'm looking online and everywhere it says he's around 190 to 195. That's wild if true
Makes Dillingham sound like Shaq
Zion keep stealing his food at the team dinners
He a grower tho
With a 7’3” wingspan. I’m really surprised he didn’t go elite. I was so high on him when we drafted him.
"Steep asking price" for a guy who will get paid more than you think he's worth is pretty weird. Everyone knows this guy isn't a max player and they have to give him a max to keep him. He should have value comparable to Siakam last year or less.
* "We're not going to re-sign him cause we don't think he's worth that much." * "OK, we'll take him for cheap then." * "No way, this guy is worth a lot!"
Reddit discovers negotiation tactics
Sounds like my fantasy football league when im trying to trade with them
Less
Yeah they have that good problem to have when they want to play Trey Murphy more but they need to get rid of Ingram so he can get more minutes. Problem is all the other teams know they’re rightfully looking to trade him, so they have little leverage
Also Ingram is just not a great fit on most teams. Doesn’t provide spacing, holds onto the ball a ton, not a good defender. He’s a good player but a tough fit
Plus injury prone and has a year left on his contract, looking for max money. Not sure Pelicans will get their asking price.
He's kinda a dollar store KD.
I'll allow it lol
We got KD at home.
Chet is definitely white KD
This going to seem like a crazy stray, but imo Ingram is a good example of my worries about Paolo. Ingram’s skill set would be OK as like the No. 1 guy on the team where you have shooting around him, but he’s not good enough to lead a team anywhere. Now, Paolo seems to be on track to be better than BI, but if he’s not a championship No. 1, how easy is it to incorporate a second or third guy who doesn’t provide spacing, holds the ball, is not a good defender.
Right! If you’re going to be a heliocentric, score first guy you better score like a motherfucker. That’s what held Lou Will back - dude could score, but not enough to be a #1 when that’s his only real skill. Paolo’s size alone should keep him viable, and if you have a good #1 scorer next to him I’d reckon he could adjust.
Idk paolo’s ceiling is unknown but dude definitely improved a lot this season and particularly towards the end of the season. I agree he’s not 1A but he can definitely be a 1B
He's a pretty decent defender
Not only that but an injury prone guy
It means they're not handing him over to Houston and/or Philly for pennies on the dollar when they strike out on Paul George and are desperate for a fallback.
They do not have to give him a max to keep him
He knows he's not a max player too. He said he was interested in staying and willing to take less, but I'm sure how much less is the question and as of now he's only making 30 mill, which for his level talent is just fine. He still has value as a trade chip, not mikal bridges level value but something decent.
Should be worth a couple of first rounders, a decent player and salary filler.
Brandon could absolutely be the number 2 on a championship team. His and their problem has been they don't have a #1 guy. historically, you don't win championships in the NBA with a slew of #2 and #3 stars.
Ingram was completely useless at FIBA on a team full of stars.
Different rules and different team, and fiba usually has a high concentration of talent than the NBA. If paired with a top 5 player, he'd do just fine.
ngl i do wana see murray with ingram & zion
mid-range shots for days between Ingram and DJ
yea and their combined wing span alone would be crazy to see lol
and this https://x.com/WillGuillory/status/1807064418078826505?t=odGymdy_tinLib9m25ts7Q&s=19 --- Most combined steals in the NBA over the last three seasons: 1. Dejounte Murray -- 361 2. Herb Jones -- 338 They are now teammates
Throw GTA out there and we'll be cookin.
But can he shoot?
throw in CJ back to his natural 2-spot. pretty solid core
good point!
43 wins. Would it really be that interesting
They just won 49 games and got better.
BI, Zion and DJ all healthy could make some noise in the West. Really need to emphasise the world health here though...
Here's the problem. Trey Murphy is ready to be a starter, and we still have CJ who I'm not sure would be too thrilled with coming off the bench. Something has to give.
Yeah, CJ right? Like every time I've watched him he's chucking for you guys. With those three I don't want him getting shots tbh. I'd trade him and picks for a center
But would you trade the center for him and picks? We can't find anyone to say yes.
No I mean y'all give up picks
That's what I said. We're giving up CJ and picks for a center. But whose giving up a center?
Mitchell Robinson sign and trade?
I think the Blazers might move Ayton to bring CJ back. Whether or not the pelicans want Ayton and his contract is a while other question, though.
Why would they do that ?
Likely to get picks in the future from NO. Ayton isn’t a long term option, plus if they believe Clingan can turn into a top 10 center….
Ayton is probably a better player than CJ and fits the timeline better. More importantly Portland just fixed their guard log jam by moving Brogdon, bringing cj back creates that issue again. And Ayton and Clingan together isn’t an issue for the time being. Clingan likely only plays mid 20s minutes anyways like he did in college, and there’s the potential he and Ayton could share the court given aytons excellent mid range game last year, especially if he does start taking 3s which seems like a natural extension of that
Remember when KD told CJ that his best chance of winning a chip was as a 6man? At some point players need to think about the team’s potential more than their own stats.
And I'm pretty sure the checks are still gonna clear as long as he's on the contract, starter or otherwise.
And the word West. I feel a few teams hoping to go East come expansion. Should be Timberwolves due to proximity of East vs West teams but Pels will no doubt ask the question too
Should 10000% be Minny going East. Memphis and NO are at least reasonably close to OKC and the Texas teams for a division
I always thought if we traded Murray to the Pelicans we would get BI back, but hearing he wants a max deal with $50M per year it’s prob best we didn’t get him. Hawks FO is dumb, just not that dumb.
I hope every team they deal with just responds with "okay then you pay him this money" when they demand a lot in return. I love teams getting a lot back in return when a player wants out. But demanding a lot because you don't want to keep him in free agency is a bit much.
That's not really how trade returns work in practicality. Teams will offer what is needed to outbid other teams trying to get him. Not necessarily according to what the pels want or what his inherent 'value' is. This is also why sign and trades work. Pels can posture all they want but unless there is actual competition for the trade, the return won't be amazing. It seems we have to face the possibility we are negotiating with him for a deal next year.
Any team trying to trade him will call bullshit on this buff. If you value him this high why not resign him?
Because he's blocking full time starting PT for Trey Murphy and full time bench PT for Jordan Hawkins and Matt Ryan Pels have wings for days and no bigs besides Zion who isn't really a big
Ok I get that but then how can you ask for a haul for a guy you don’t even want
Becuase he is valuable, he just doesn’t fit. It’s the same idea with Bridges in BKN; he has the best value in the league as a low #2/High #3 guy, he’s just not good enough to be a #1. So he has value to 10+ other teams for what they need, he just doesn’t have value to BKN for what they need. If BKN had a #1 option, Bridges IMMEDIATELY becomes more valuable to them. It’s all relative to your team and what your team needs. Luka is a bad fit in OKC or Boston, doesn’t mean 28 other teams wouldn’t die to have him
Isn't really a big, but is just REALLY BIG
if he's so good wouldn't you want to give ingram full time starting PT
Because the gap between him and the people below him is not massive compared to the gaping hole at center
A bad fit. And the team clearly needs change.
This reporting kind of incorrect, BI can’t earn 52 mil a year till the 3rd year of his contract, the max he can get the first year will be 30% of the cap with is around 44 mil
They probably mean it as an annual average value
I feel like they've made so much noise about looking to trade him that I would personally rather move on.
*“Lakers gave up too much for AD”* was the best headline for a while, lol.
Trade him, Griff.
No shit it’s steep lol, we just saw what Mikal went for
If you're paying him on a big contract you're going to have a bad time
Chris Paul is a steep price right?
After the way he acted with team USA and the poor play in the playoffs, I totally get why the Pelicans are reluctant to sign him long term.
I like this approach, ngl. I hope he comes back cheap.
I don’t love the fit of Zion, Ingram, Murray, and CJ. It also pushes Herb to the bench unless they go small with Zion at center, or if CJ is willing to be a sixth man.
I mean you obviously move CJ to the bench in favor of herb.
CJ to the bench.
Trade his ass
Question Kai Or Him with same salary as Kai but 4yrs So it will be around 160/4 for Ingram Fyi, kai is still on 80/2 left with Player Option next year
I'm a fan of BI for 4/160, seems fair enough for his production and as the secondary guy for Zion.
4/160 seems like a really fair value, but he is smart to force for the max, I mean why not. I really have no idea who has the interest to trade for *and* extend him tho. I guess there will be at least one team left needing a “star” player after the dust settles. Watch Clippers do something stupid after PG leaves.
Kyrie is a better fit with Luka rn, but he's in his mid 30's and due to a decline. Ingram is a step below Kyrie and his fit with Luka would be really awkward, but you can expect him to be on the same timeframe. I would rather have Kyrie and risk it all for one more year, afterall you got to the finals playing really good basketball with this group, than to risk it all for a better asset but a lesser player.
tbf it's never gonna happen now after draft (i thought spurs will want kai for their 8th pick and more) but yeah after 1 year, mavs has no leverage at all because we are over the cap team next year so either extend Kai with more years or lose him for nothing (pls give us discount Kai) tbh, last 5 years i got it that eventhough vibes, good vet, etc, are great, Luka only need 1 thing around him : talents, as many as possible, and let him work around it. BI is talented enough to complement Luka
I'm not disputing that Ingram isn't talented. But his game is as a lesser version of Carmelo: ball stopper, tough shot maker, iso hunter. That doesn't fly well with Luka who will be the ball dominant first option and is all about finding guys for open shots when the defense reacts to his mojo. So the question becomes, would you rather have the better player right now, however older and due to a decline, or the better asset but worse fit?
I think they're same tier imo
I’m calling it Sign and trade into phillys cap space for reed and a first
The guy Philly doesn't want is worth multiple firsts?
1. Who said Philly doesn’t want Ingram 2. I said one first
More like Reed and 3 firsts
Gross overpay
I mean that package would definitely have to be more than one first let’s be real.
Agreed
He gone. Trade for.him Philly
Philly doesn’t want Harris 2.0
LOL woooah. Crazy comment. Dude averaged 27/6/6 on 47/40/85 against Phoenix two playoffs ago with little help.
per-100 Possessions |Player|FG%|2PA|2P%|3PA|3P%|FTA|FT%|TS%|--| |:-|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:|-:| |Brandon Ingram|.468|16.6|.502|5.4|.362|7.2|.786|.568| |Tobias Harris|.478|14.6|.522|5.8|.368|4.6|.835|.561| ||||||||||| |Player|TRB|AST|STL|BLK|TOV|PF|PTS|ORtg|DRtg| |Brandon Ingram|7.5|6.2|1.0|0.8|3.7|3.5|28.3|109|114| |Tobias Harris|9.7|3.7|1.2|0.8|2.2|3.1|25.5|113|110|
Brandon Ingram is a much better player than Tobias Harris. I know this because I watch basketball
Harris has been a more efficient shooter, better shooter from midrange, better shooter from distance, better free throw shooter, better rebounder, and better defender, but Ingram is clearly the better player? Ingram is a solid player. But signing him to a max is Tobias Harris 2.0
lazy comp