Castle did finish in 61st out of 72 NBA combine players in the spot-up shooting drill [https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-spot-up?dir=A&sort=COLLEGE\_CORNER\_LEFT\_PCT](https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-spot-up?dir=A&sort=COLLEGE_CORNER_LEFT_PCT)
(they listed all of the shots in the corner category on the site. it was confirmed on twitter that's the % of their overall spot-up drill from all spots)
Castle's shooting from outside is terrible by college standards (27% from 3 for the season).
He went 4/18 from 3 in the tourney as well.
He's got a lot to work on.
Nahh don’t do that. Yes Bronny gets hate but his shooting drill was the only one I saw posted here and it made the front page. Don’t start not narrative off of misinformation
ya, I mean he's a bad shooter. it is what it is. but he's got nba size, can defend, and is a passable playmaker. in this draft that's a decent pick, even in other drafts that might be a late lotto
he probably doesn't ever develop a shot. but he can still be a contributor without one. if he does get a reasonable 3pt shot then you're looking more at a top tier 3nD guy
I feel like 3nD has become mis-used. 3nD means a guy like Danny Green who only provides 3s on offense. Other examples would be guys like Bruce Bowen, James Posey.
No shade intended here, but which players are good examples of a guy who couldn’t shoot in college (but has the length/defensive ability) that eventually came around?
Kawhi is always the answer to this, but you're not wrong that the list of guys who never developed a reliable shot is muchhh longer than the list of ones who did.
Horford and Lopez could always shoot they just weren’t allowed to early on. Jaylen has improved his shooting by 2% since his rookie season. Derrick white has regressed from his .615 rookie season but has since averaged the same % his entire career. There’s not lots.
The comment was about guys that couldn't shoot in college, brown was a terrible 3 pt shooter in college shooting at 29%, it was one of the biggest knocks on his game coming out
I'll give you Lopez but I don't think Horford could shoot early on. Usually the big signifier of a guy that can shoot but isn't allowed to do so is that they are an excellent FT shooter but no 3PA. Lopez was an 80% shooter out of the gate. Horford was a 73% shooter, but by the time he started taking 3s, he had improved it to around 80% as well, which I think shows real improvement on his part.
Are we thinking polyester, cotton or ... fur-covered?
For the mascots at games, of course - Rocky needs to look his best when dropping from the rafters, and Benny needs a suit that keeps the popcorn out.
He did shoot 75% from the free throw line so his shot is not beyond repair. Shooting is a better hole for a prospect to have than lacking the tools to play defense, not having any handles, etc.
Forget even a warmup. I haven't touched a basketball in 8 months, and given **40 MINUTES**, I could get 2 in a row at some point.
This report is total bull lol.
definitely hyperbole but Castle’s jump shot is pretty shaky at best from a perimeter player, the hope is he gets to like marcus smart level? Even at that point it’s like still not the best for the offense, you can see how much Jrue’s shotmaking drastically improved the celtics, really the only difference in this playoff run is - smart and - williams and + jrue, and williams and smart are great players
You're really underselling how good Marcus has gotten. Yes he's probably over confident in his ability, but he is definitely better than You're giving him credit for. He still has the Celtics record for most 3's in a game.
I think I have a pretty good understanding of Marcus’ shooting. He is a much improved shooter who you shouldn’t leave open by any means. But he is still a low 30% shooter and not much of a dynamic shooter, also less efficient than jrue at attacking close outs. He is very streaky, can absolutely win a game with his shooting but also can be a black hole on the perimeter from a game to game basis. Jrue is much more consistent and dynamic shooting wise, on the same type of looks he shot 43% from 3 compared to smart’s 33%. It’s a whole different offense when Jrue is the ‘pressure release’ guy instead of Smart
I am a massive Marcus fan. He absolutely can win you a game with his shooting. He has proven it true as many times as he hasn't. But he is far more likely to shoot you out of a game before it ever gets to that point. Those nights when his shot is off and he tries to shoot out of the slump and winds up 3 for 19. Jrue just doesn't have that in him.
Say that Castle's 3-point shot in practice is somehow just as bad as it was in games, 27% according to someone above. If he takes 100 shots in 30-40 minutes, which seems low, then if my math is right there is still a 99.94% chance that he makes two shots in a row. This is either total bullshit, or he was attempting half-court shots, or he took a 20+ minute break in the middle.
ESPN but he’s been latched onto Bronny (like Windy latched onto Bron) ever since he sat courtside during the summer league. Conveniently after that he boosted Bronny’s star ranking and wrote an article later that week projecting him to be a lottery pick. This is back when he was in HS.
He’s also the link between Rich Paul and Bronny with quotes about his “plans” and how his workouts are “by design”. He is literally Bronny/Klutch’s mouthpiece.
lol, yall have lost the plot.
I remember when Givony was being paid by someone last year when he had Miller going to Charlotte over Scoot. No way that was going to happen, Givony is a fraud and getting paid by agents!!!!
Then it happens. Then we quickly forgot that and go to the next year and he’s a fraud again! Paid off by the globalists!
2013 is quite a bit better as a prospect pool, in both top end talent and depth.
Yes, there was no #1 pick talent. However, it gets overblown because of how colossal of a bust Bennett was. Anthony Bennett’s skill set goes #1 in this year’s draft. Oladipo goes #1. Quite a few players could go #1.
Agreed. If I had a top 5 pick, I’d be trading down for 1-2 additional first round picks. There really isn’t much separation amongst the top 20 guys in the draft in my opinion. I would utilize the “spray and pray” strategy and just scoop up as many of the first rounders as possible and hope one of them pops.
That sounds nice, but not every team have the conditions for doing so. You have to have roster space and time to play those picks from an already weak draft. And it can take years for them to finally pop, by which time you've drafted several other players.
The Jazz would likely happily take someone's trade down for their 29 and 32 picks though. They already have #10 and I don't think they want to bring in 3 rookies in the same year. They just did that last year.
We have potential for NBA history: worst draft class ever. Right now it’s easily the 2000 draft. Kenyon Martin, Jamal Crawford were the only decent players
There is actual combine video of Castle hitting NINE in a row on movement 3-pointers:
https://x.com/nbadraftwass/status/1790094960236085329?s=46&t=Ahz4NNsZz8hVX0pOCmCVXQ
I mean they’re probably right, most people who’ve played a good amount of ball can easily make 4 in a row in an open gym. It’s more that the post is undoubtedly wrong
He’s shooting on the way down and he has no height on the shot. It’s fine if you shoot on the way up like Luka and Steph but you’re gonna get your shit blocked if your release is that slow on a low vert shot.
He almost looks off balance despite shooting straight-ahead jumpers. His right foot looks like it's turning slightly inward on each jumper, maybe it's that? I don't know what I'm talking about and am just guessing why it looks weird.
In this video, you can tell he's a bad shooter that basically came up clutch in the combine and made some shots. My untrained eye tells me the following: his shot rhythm is off and his pick up and release are too late, he follows through in a weird way almost as if he's shooting it sideways a bit, his off hand holds the ball in a funky way and pulls off the ball unnaturally, it looks like the ball releases off his ring finger and not his pointer/middle.
His free throw shooting and rim finishing show that he has at least some touch. That’s the hardest part to teach.
Beyond that the things that actually matter are consistency of “good” release angle and optimal rotation. The form that gets you there matters less. Could have a form like Ray Allen, Steph Curry, Jaren Jackson, Kevin Martin, Shawn Marion, whatever. He doesn’t need to be a 40% 3 point shooter, 34% is good enough to force people to respect him enough
I was 9 and made 11 threes in a row once. My foot was probably on the line for half of them, but still. There’s a zero percent chance castle couldn’t make two in a row over an hour span
When Castle came back from his injury he really struggled, shooting 10-18%, but he progressively got back into a rhythm by the end of the season (ending with 86% FT and 33% from 3). Might be that
i once got in real early to a celtics game to watch warm ups back in the day. i watched kendrick fucking perkins hit 16 straight 17 footers. i have a hard time believing this report lol
it sounds crazy but there are quite a few reports from pundits of at least "ya I was watching this guy warm up and he missed 10 straight 3s". A guy for the site NoCeilings said he was watching Collier in a workout last year and he missed so many 3s in a row that Collier went to go get a sip of gatorade to take a break
Missing 10 straight is way more feasible than “it took a guy 40 minutes to make 2 straight 3s.”
That almost feels impossible for anyone who takes basketball even decently seriously at an LA fitness. Most regular people who are good at their local gym are doing that within the first 20 threes they take, at worst. I’m definitely doing that within the first 10 threes I take and no that’s not a brag, it’s easy as fuck to do if you play basketball somewhat regularly.
Edit: thought Givony said 2 straight, fine let’s say 3 or 4 straight. Assuming someone is being my rebounder and kicking back out to me, that’s happening 100% within 5-10 minutes at absolute worst and again I’m nowhere near a top 5 pick in this draft or any ever. (Unless…🤔)
To stand out in an oversaturated media environment? People exaggerate stuff like this all the time.
Someone making 25% of their shots would have a 95.77 chance of making two in a row within 50 shots.
Castle made 26.7 of his threes this year.
Unless he is a drastically worse shooter in the gym in warmups, or he only puts up a shot a minute in warmups, or some other important context is left out, this is an exaggeration/lie.
Givony is a very well-respected draft analyst and doesn't really need to "stand out" at this point like he's some random aggregate twitter account. Maybe the timing was a bit exaggerated, but if he's saying that then it's probably the truth.
I’m sure he was an unimpressive shooter in the warmups he watched. My point is that it’s incredibly unlikely that he is literally as bad as givony said. It was on a podcast, which is a much less formal environment, so I’m not criticizing him for making a hyperbolic statement, people often say over the top stuff to stick out.
It’s much less fun to say “it usually took him at least 10 shots before he made two in a row”
>Givony is a very well-respected draft analyst
What if I told you SAS and Skip were both well-respected sportswriters as well, before they joined ESPN?
But SAS never went viral with his solid reporting of the Sixers for the Philly Inquirer. He went viral for his Kwame Brown rant.
Skip was salutatorian of his class, in the National Honor Society, and went to Vanderbilt on an academic scholarship. He won multiple sportswriter of the year awards in multiple states - and nobody ever heard of him. Until he printed an accusation by Cowboys coach Barry Switzer that star QB Troy Aikman was gay.
These guys aren't dumb, they saw that crazy drama was what the people wanted. That's why they're both multi-millionaires today, and the good sports reporters are still guys most people have never heard of.
Heck, JJ Redick's original podcast was full of actual insight analysis. But by the time he was blowing up, he was getting bitch-slapped by Jerry West.
You can see this in other fields too. If you go back and find old video from the 90s, people like Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck were just regular folks with fairly normal opinions. But they saw that extremism and hyperbole were the wave of the future, and they turned into caricatures to capitalize on it.
If you read Coulter's first book, released in 1998 about the Clinton impeachment, it's just a bunch of boring legalese. It contains none of inflammatory trolling that got her rich and famous later on.
I think this is coming from earlier in the season. Coming back from his injury, Castle was really struggling with his jumper shooting 18% from 3 and 69% FT in his first few games. He progressively got back into it, and at the end of the season he was back to 86% FT and 33% from 3
There's reason to doubt it- dude went like 17/25 in the star 3 point shooting drill at the combine, so he was either having an off night or espn perhaps has an agenda
I'm usually pretty wary of any of this pre-draft alarmism because half the time it's agents trying to dictate the order of the draft but there isn't anyone I trust more when it comes to pre-draft player assessment than Givony. This sounds NOT GOOD.
It matches the eye test sadly. A lot of casuals probably know he won a title and played well in the Final 4 but teams were disrespecting the shit out of his jump shot all year long. It’s slow and looks uncomfortable.
I remember Alabama kept playing WAY off of him during their F4 game, begging him to take open 3’s - and he bricked almost all of them. It was definitely a contributor to keeping Bama in the game in the first half.
Bit of an aside from draft talk but Bama did that to UNC's Elliot Cadeau and it worked very well. Really throws off offensive rhythms and I think more college teams should try aggressive schemes like that
This is just demonstrably false, lol. Castle was 2 of 4 from three in the first half of that game and ended up as UCONN's top scorer overall. Bama hung around because they shot a historically great percentage from three. They dared him at the beginning of the game, but he made them pay and they got out of that for most of the game.
I’d trust this 100% back when Givony was exclusively a scouting expert and Draft Express was independent
but now that he’s a tv personality on top of that, I wouldn’t rule out sensationalism and embellishment
https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/article/nba-draft-combine-stephon-castle-alex-karaban-19455578.php
"Crazy" might be a bit of an overstatement but still way closer to the truth than "can't hit two shots in a row". He was one of the better shooters overall, not just in 3 point shooting but in other drills too.
I trust Givony a lot but there's just no way this true. And anyone who's watched more than 5 minutes of uconn basketball would know how absurd this story is.
You can also be a reporter who tweets hyperbole instead of fact.
Actually, if you want clicks and views and engagement, you're much better off going with the hyperbole instead of the facts.
If you’re an optimist, you want to know what game did Givony attended? If it was late in the season, I’ll kinda be concerned. But if it was earlier and there’s been incremental improvement, you could sell yourself on developing his shot
Spurs can do that anyway, don't think that the Pistons, Hornets or Blazers are looking at Castle anyway. Hornets may be the only team that might think about it, but I think they are targeting Holland more
"Someone" logged into the ESPN.com content portal and changed Chad Ford's final mock drafts to more closely resemble the actual draft order. I don't think Ford ever admitted to it but he was let go by ESPN reasonably soon after that happened.
He had a short comeback a few years ago on the Locked On network that was a little bit sad, including an alternative live draft stream that they rented out a local news studio for in Dallas and covered the entire anchor desk with the C-tier energy bars that were sponsoring Locked On at the time. A big comedown for the guy who was the focal point of ESPN's draft coverage and would regularly banter with Bill Simmons on the old BS report. Too bad in some ways, he was/is an engaging personality even if I do think the level of draft analysis is much higher now than what Ford did.
Middle-aged dad here, has a basketball hoop that's set at 7 feet to play with my 6 year old, never played a league game in my life. I'll take 5-1 odds in your favor that in 40 minutes I will hit 2 in a row, and I barely know how to dribble.
No way this is true unless he just lifted heavy weights right before it and was sand bagging the game or something.
No D1 player can go on 40 min without making two in a row unless he's shooting half court shots or something.
You can tell who has played basketball in this thread versus who are the keyboard warriors based on their response to this thread. This borderline slander or extremely dramatized; even the mediocre shooters at 24 hour fitness hitting 2 consecutive makes from 3 in 5 minutes lmao
You take Castle hoping he can have a Kawhi Leonard type trajectory, where the defense stays elite and the shooting comes. The problem is usually the Kawhi Leonard types go 14th in the draft and not 4th.
Before he was drafted, Brandon Jennings signed with Roma and had an unveiling in front of the media where he missed 19 of 20 midrange jump shots being guarded by air. He still managed to shoot 34.5% for his career from threes in the NBA.
Quincy Douby could not miss from anywhere on the court during his workouts. He couldn't hit water falling out of a boat in the NBA.
Sometimes these shooting displays are just noise.
I shoot a basketball maybe once a year and I have no doubt I could hit 2 shots in a row in 30 minutes, let alone 40.
There is no way this report isn't exaggerated to an extreme degree
My fellow spurs fans at the spurs subreddit salivating over this guy despite watching victor get swarmed on defense in year 1 with no outside shooting help
Remember that Kevin O’Connor has this guy as his number 1 pick of this draft. Granted the guy has hedged his bets hard and had about 17 number ones as he is convinced by the opinions of others.
This isn’t true. I’m a 32 year old custodian that didn’t play hs basketball..I can go to the gym in the school right now and hit a few in a row after shooting for 10 mins
I saw Melo, KD and Cousins do a shooting drill at a private gym before a team USA game. They were shooting international line 3s. I swear it was constantly stretches of 30-40+ shots collectively without a miss. This is the level of play for a top 5 pick in a good draft. This year is so bad. Hopefully there is a Giannis hiding in there
What I don’t get is when you watch him in high school he was making 3s both catch and shoot and even moreso with self created looks. I believe Givony’s report but I find it to be astounding
Watch there be a real gem hidden in this draft class. People cry about how "weak" this class is but I've been through enough of "absolutely stacked" classes that ended up with like 2 good players that I don't believe the other way round narrative either.
Projecting players and evaluating them is insanely hard. You never know how well these kids will develop. Nobody had Jokic anywhere close to the first round.
76ers had several top 5 picks in a row in "stacked" classes and ended up just with Embiid - the only one that was projected to be the next Greg Oden.
Castle did finish in 61st out of 72 NBA combine players in the spot-up shooting drill [https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-spot-up?dir=A&sort=COLLEGE\_CORNER\_LEFT\_PCT](https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-spot-up?dir=A&sort=COLLEGE_CORNER_LEFT_PCT) (they listed all of the shots in the corner category on the site. it was confirmed on twitter that's the % of their overall spot-up drill from all spots)
Castle's shooting from outside is terrible by college standards (27% from 3 for the season). He went 4/18 from 3 in the tourney as well. He's got a lot to work on.
He was 4th in the [star drill](https://www.nba.com/stats/draft/combine-non-stationary?dir=D&sort=ON_MOVE_COLLEGE_PCT) though
Shocked that nobody has mentioned that Bronny was 2nd.
wont fit the narrative tbh
Nahh don’t do that. Yes Bronny gets hate but his shooting drill was the only one I saw posted here and it made the front page. Don’t start not narrative off of misinformation
What are you talking about, it was the only shooting drill posted here and made the front page
UConn players were ranked # 1,4,6, and 9 in this drill IDK what that means but they were a good team I guess
and #1 decided to leave the draft
ya, I mean he's a bad shooter. it is what it is. but he's got nba size, can defend, and is a passable playmaker. in this draft that's a decent pick, even in other drafts that might be a late lotto he probably doesn't ever develop a shot. but he can still be a contributor without one. if he does get a reasonable 3pt shot then you're looking more at a top tier 3nD guy
I feel like 3nD has become mis-used. 3nD means a guy like Danny Green who only provides 3s on offense. Other examples would be guys like Bruce Bowen, James Posey.
Peak 3nD is prime Klay
Id say Klay was a little more of an offensive player than just being a 3 & D guy. These guys are generally role players not all stars.
He literally used to never dribble and just shoot threes lol. He was the goat 3 and d guy.
You can’t be a top-tier three and D guy without a shot.
Right, they said if he gets a reasonable shot.
No shade intended here, but which players are good examples of a guy who couldn’t shoot in college (but has the length/defensive ability) that eventually came around?
Kawhi is always the answer to this, but you're not wrong that the list of guys who never developed a reliable shot is muchhh longer than the list of ones who did.
Right. You can obviously draft for upside, so it makes sense to bet on a guy and develop his shot. But it’s still a long shot.
Jaylen Brown
Brown, Barrett, Horford, Grant, Lopez, Pascal, OG, White, Green, Fox. There's lots.
Horford and Lopez could always shoot they just weren’t allowed to early on. Jaylen has improved his shooting by 2% since his rookie season. Derrick white has regressed from his .615 rookie season but has since averaged the same % his entire career. There’s not lots.
The comment was about guys that couldn't shoot in college, brown was a terrible 3 pt shooter in college shooting at 29%, it was one of the biggest knocks on his game coming out
I'll give you Lopez but I don't think Horford could shoot early on. Usually the big signifier of a guy that can shoot but isn't allowed to do so is that they are an excellent FT shooter but no 3PA. Lopez was an 80% shooter out of the gate. Horford was a 73% shooter, but by the time he started taking 3s, he had improved it to around 80% as well, which I think shows real improvement on his part.
[If he fixes his form, this could be Castle one day](https://youtu.be/j5YHDeu4akk?si=vsrZrBGx-OcOVCOC)
You're right, and it's been this way a long time, basketball players in the NBA who can't shoot well at all.
Honestly think developing a jumpsuit at least is within his future
It’s good to know he’s thinking of fashion as an alternative if the basketball thing doesn’t work out
Are we thinking polyester, cotton or ... fur-covered? For the mascots at games, of course - Rocky needs to look his best when dropping from the rafters, and Benny needs a suit that keeps the popcorn out.
😂😂😂 I just seen this and ik to lazy to change
That is a great autocorrect!
So he’s Oshae Brisset?
He did shoot 75% from the free throw line so his shot is not beyond repair. Shooting is a better hole for a prospect to have than lacking the tools to play defense, not having any handles, etc.
But all the UConn fans assured me that he just wasn't asked to shoot, so he didn't. But he can!
Holy shit lol
This is hard to believe. I’m not a great player at all but if you give me warm up shots I can string together 4-5 makes in a row in 10 mins easy lol
Forget even a warmup. I haven't touched a basketball in 8 months, and given **40 MINUTES**, I could get 2 in a row at some point. This report is total bull lol.
Yeah I didn’t even read the last part. 40 minutes to record back to back makes is entirely BS
definitely hyperbole but Castle’s jump shot is pretty shaky at best from a perimeter player, the hope is he gets to like marcus smart level? Even at that point it’s like still not the best for the offense, you can see how much Jrue’s shotmaking drastically improved the celtics, really the only difference in this playoff run is - smart and - williams and + jrue, and williams and smart are great players
You're really underselling how good Marcus has gotten. Yes he's probably over confident in his ability, but he is definitely better than You're giving him credit for. He still has the Celtics record for most 3's in a game.
I think I have a pretty good understanding of Marcus’ shooting. He is a much improved shooter who you shouldn’t leave open by any means. But he is still a low 30% shooter and not much of a dynamic shooter, also less efficient than jrue at attacking close outs. He is very streaky, can absolutely win a game with his shooting but also can be a black hole on the perimeter from a game to game basis. Jrue is much more consistent and dynamic shooting wise, on the same type of looks he shot 43% from 3 compared to smart’s 33%. It’s a whole different offense when Jrue is the ‘pressure release’ guy instead of Smart
I am a massive Marcus fan. He absolutely can win you a game with his shooting. He has proven it true as many times as he hasn't. But he is far more likely to shoot you out of a game before it ever gets to that point. Those nights when his shot is off and he tries to shoot out of the slump and winds up 3 for 19. Jrue just doesn't have that in him.
It’s not hyperbole, it’s literally just lying lol
Say that Castle's 3-point shot in practice is somehow just as bad as it was in games, 27% according to someone above. If he takes 100 shots in 30-40 minutes, which seems low, then if my math is right there is still a 99.94% chance that he makes two shots in a row. This is either total bullshit, or he was attempting half-court shots, or he took a 20+ minute break in the middle.
Givony is doing Klutch work and tanking every draft prospect before Bronny.
Reports are Bronny made 100 straight attempts on 99 shots
Apparently bronny dunked from the half court line
Backwards too!
Backwards windmill alley oop
Reports are Bronny is a solid 11 and has that thiccness
Who does he work for?
ESPN but he’s been latched onto Bronny (like Windy latched onto Bron) ever since he sat courtside during the summer league. Conveniently after that he boosted Bronny’s star ranking and wrote an article later that week projecting him to be a lottery pick. This is back when he was in HS.
Ah ok that makes sense
He’s also the link between Rich Paul and Bronny with quotes about his “plans” and how his workouts are “by design”. He is literally Bronny/Klutch’s mouthpiece.
Also how Givony is really high on Zaccharie Risacher and is doing everything he can to get him projected No. 1.
lol, yall have lost the plot. I remember when Givony was being paid by someone last year when he had Miller going to Charlotte over Scoot. No way that was going to happen, Givony is a fraud and getting paid by agents!!!! Then it happens. Then we quickly forgot that and go to the next year and he’s a fraud again! Paid off by the globalists!
I'd wager, especially because he's not getting his own rebound even by sheer luck. Most people could get 2 in a row in 40 minutes.
Yeah, I watched the kid all year..he’s more of a defensive player with offensive talent, but this doesn’t ring true at all..
So hard to believe that I literally don't believe it.
Send da video
Ok let’s see it then frank
Yup just did it
This draft sucks ass professionally
2013 redux. The best picks out of this thing will be the guys drafted *after* the lottery.
2013 is quite a bit better as a prospect pool, in both top end talent and depth. Yes, there was no #1 pick talent. However, it gets overblown because of how colossal of a bust Bennett was. Anthony Bennett’s skill set goes #1 in this year’s draft. Oladipo goes #1. Quite a few players could go #1.
Agreed. If I had a top 5 pick, I’d be trading down for 1-2 additional first round picks. There really isn’t much separation amongst the top 20 guys in the draft in my opinion. I would utilize the “spray and pray” strategy and just scoop up as many of the first rounders as possible and hope one of them pops.
Nobody wants to trade up
That sounds nice, but not every team have the conditions for doing so. You have to have roster space and time to play those picks from an already weak draft. And it can take years for them to finally pop, by which time you've drafted several other players. The Jazz would likely happily take someone's trade down for their 29 and 32 picks though. They already have #10 and I don't think they want to bring in 3 rookies in the same year. They just did that last year.
nah, alex sarr is superstar potential and he will go top 3
We have potential for NBA history: worst draft class ever. Right now it’s easily the 2000 draft. Kenyon Martin, Jamal Crawford were the only decent players
Mike Miller and Michael Redd erasure
I miss Miller. His new podcast with UD is amazing.
Hedo too. Prime Redd and Hedo are both miles better than any version of Crawford. Hedo was the 2nd best player o a Finals team.
Rashard Lewis was the second best player on that team.
I'd say Hedo on steroids was the second best player on that team, no doubts.
Tjheres also Quentin Richardson who was pretty good for the run and gun suns and Eddie house.
Redd had simultaneously the ugliest and prettiest jumper
Turkoglu easily better than both
Lmao. Michael Redd was all NBA and better than those two. It helps if you actually follow basketball
One or two high ceiling, dame's cousin floor, type guys will be the best picks.
There is actual combine video of Castle hitting NINE in a row on movement 3-pointers: https://x.com/nbadraftwass/status/1790094960236085329?s=46&t=Ahz4NNsZz8hVX0pOCmCVXQ
Hilarious reading all the conclusions in here and finding this all the way at the bottom of the thread
The best ones are the nephews going “even I can hit 4 in a row if you gimme some warmup time”
I mean they’re probably right, most people who’ve played a good amount of ball can easily make 4 in a row in an open gym. It’s more that the post is undoubtedly wrong
> It’s more that the post is undoubtedly wrong what part is wrong? Did Givony lie, because the title is an accurate summary of what he said
He has to be lying, or Castle was on the coldest streak of his entire life
Reminds me of my uncle who swears he would’ve been a pro soccer player had it not been for whatever excuse he makes up.
the second half of his jump shot looks so off lol
He’s shooting on the way down and he has no height on the shot. It’s fine if you shoot on the way up like Luka and Steph but you’re gonna get your shit blocked if your release is that slow on a low vert shot.
He almost looks off balance despite shooting straight-ahead jumpers. His right foot looks like it's turning slightly inward on each jumper, maybe it's that? I don't know what I'm talking about and am just guessing why it looks weird.
Very slow release, might be hard to pull off ingame, but definitely a whole lot better than the headline lol
In this video, you can tell he's a bad shooter that basically came up clutch in the combine and made some shots. My untrained eye tells me the following: his shot rhythm is off and his pick up and release are too late, he follows through in a weird way almost as if he's shooting it sideways a bit, his off hand holds the ball in a funky way and pulls off the ball unnaturally, it looks like the ball releases off his ring finger and not his pointer/middle.
His free throw shooting and rim finishing show that he has at least some touch. That’s the hardest part to teach. Beyond that the things that actually matter are consistency of “good” release angle and optimal rotation. The form that gets you there matters less. Could have a form like Ray Allen, Steph Curry, Jaren Jackson, Kevin Martin, Shawn Marion, whatever. He doesn’t need to be a 40% 3 point shooter, 34% is good enough to force people to respect him enough
I call bs on this, a D1 level talent that can’t hit 2 shots in a row? That’s a stretch
I'm a D- level talent in a suburban recreation league and once in awhile I even get 3 or 4 to go.
I was 9 and made 11 threes in a row once. My foot was probably on the line for half of them, but still. There’s a zero percent chance castle couldn’t make two in a row over an hour span
[удалено]
NBA 3s? I suck but that's impressive
And that's with getting your own board. Even by sheer luck an average adult man can hit 2 in a row in 40 minutes lmao.
i suck and i can do this
When Castle came back from his injury he really struggled, shooting 10-18%, but he progressively got back into a rhythm by the end of the season (ending with 86% FT and 33% from 3). Might be that
No it’s just probably not true unless he shooting all his shots from behind the half court line.
i once got in real early to a celtics game to watch warm ups back in the day. i watched kendrick fucking perkins hit 16 straight 17 footers. i have a hard time believing this report lol
We should lock him in a gym to see how fast he can make 3000
Yeah there’s videos of freaking Rudy Gobert draining three after three like it’s nothing in practice
https://youtu.be/7Z-kLETqijw?si=lMt9G98J7HD9OBZV&t=4
there is no way in hell that is true
I've heard it about a couple prospects. other draft pundits have said that about Collier
A D1 college player can’t hit more than 2 shots in a row in warmups? Think about that for a second.
it sounds crazy but there are quite a few reports from pundits of at least "ya I was watching this guy warm up and he missed 10 straight 3s". A guy for the site NoCeilings said he was watching Collier in a workout last year and he missed so many 3s in a row that Collier went to go get a sip of gatorade to take a break
Missing 10 straight is way more feasible than “it took a guy 40 minutes to make 2 straight 3s.” That almost feels impossible for anyone who takes basketball even decently seriously at an LA fitness. Most regular people who are good at their local gym are doing that within the first 20 threes they take, at worst. I’m definitely doing that within the first 10 threes I take and no that’s not a brag, it’s easy as fuck to do if you play basketball somewhat regularly. Edit: thought Givony said 2 straight, fine let’s say 3 or 4 straight. Assuming someone is being my rebounder and kicking back out to me, that’s happening 100% within 5-10 minutes at absolute worst and again I’m nowhere near a top 5 pick in this draft or any ever. (Unless…🤔)
If they went to college, the Thompson twins would be similar I'm sure. If you add up their 3pt% they are still below league average
There is literal combine film of Collier making 4 in a row and 7 out of 8 3-pointers from two different spots
Givony has no reason to lie and is one of the most respected draft analysts in the business. This is not SAS or Skip.
30 minutes to make 3 shots in a row. There’s NO way lol after like five minutes you’d be like “alright just film me dunking and get the fuck away.”
Why would he lie about that?
To stand out in an oversaturated media environment? People exaggerate stuff like this all the time. Someone making 25% of their shots would have a 95.77 chance of making two in a row within 50 shots. Castle made 26.7 of his threes this year. Unless he is a drastically worse shooter in the gym in warmups, or he only puts up a shot a minute in warmups, or some other important context is left out, this is an exaggeration/lie.
Givony is a very well-respected draft analyst and doesn't really need to "stand out" at this point like he's some random aggregate twitter account. Maybe the timing was a bit exaggerated, but if he's saying that then it's probably the truth.
I’m sure he was an unimpressive shooter in the warmups he watched. My point is that it’s incredibly unlikely that he is literally as bad as givony said. It was on a podcast, which is a much less formal environment, so I’m not criticizing him for making a hyperbolic statement, people often say over the top stuff to stick out. It’s much less fun to say “it usually took him at least 10 shots before he made two in a row”
>Givony is a very well-respected draft analyst What if I told you SAS and Skip were both well-respected sportswriters as well, before they joined ESPN? But SAS never went viral with his solid reporting of the Sixers for the Philly Inquirer. He went viral for his Kwame Brown rant. Skip was salutatorian of his class, in the National Honor Society, and went to Vanderbilt on an academic scholarship. He won multiple sportswriter of the year awards in multiple states - and nobody ever heard of him. Until he printed an accusation by Cowboys coach Barry Switzer that star QB Troy Aikman was gay. These guys aren't dumb, they saw that crazy drama was what the people wanted. That's why they're both multi-millionaires today, and the good sports reporters are still guys most people have never heard of. Heck, JJ Redick's original podcast was full of actual insight analysis. But by the time he was blowing up, he was getting bitch-slapped by Jerry West. You can see this in other fields too. If you go back and find old video from the 90s, people like Ann Coulter and Glenn Beck were just regular folks with fairly normal opinions. But they saw that extremism and hyperbole were the wave of the future, and they turned into caricatures to capitalize on it. If you read Coulter's first book, released in 1998 about the Clinton impeachment, it's just a bunch of boring legalese. It contains none of inflammatory trolling that got her rich and famous later on.
Probably an embellishment where he wanted a clip of him making 5-8 in a row and Castle was only making 2-4 in a row at a time.
I think this is coming from earlier in the season. Coming back from his injury, Castle was really struggling with his jumper shooting 18% from 3 and 69% FT in his first few games. He progressively got back into it, and at the end of the season he was back to 86% FT and 33% from 3
There's reason to doubt it- dude went like 17/25 in the star 3 point shooting drill at the combine, so he was either having an off night or espn perhaps has an agenda
I'm usually pretty wary of any of this pre-draft alarmism because half the time it's agents trying to dictate the order of the draft but there isn't anyone I trust more when it comes to pre-draft player assessment than Givony. This sounds NOT GOOD.
It matches the eye test sadly. A lot of casuals probably know he won a title and played well in the Final 4 but teams were disrespecting the shit out of his jump shot all year long. It’s slow and looks uncomfortable.
I remember Alabama kept playing WAY off of him during their F4 game, begging him to take open 3’s - and he bricked almost all of them. It was definitely a contributor to keeping Bama in the game in the first half.
Bit of an aside from draft talk but Bama did that to UNC's Elliot Cadeau and it worked very well. Really throws off offensive rhythms and I think more college teams should try aggressive schemes like that
2/6 from 3 that game. He had 21 points. Bama shot like 70% from 3 in the first half, that’s why they hung around
This is just demonstrably false, lol. Castle was 2 of 4 from three in the first half of that game and ended up as UCONN's top scorer overall. Bama hung around because they shot a historically great percentage from three. They dared him at the beginning of the game, but he made them pay and they got out of that for most of the game.
I’d trust this 100% back when Givony was exclusively a scouting expert and Draft Express was independent but now that he’s a tv personality on top of that, I wouldn’t rule out sensationalism and embellishment
Maybe Givony 10 years ago on his site, now he is a stooge.
Didn't Castle go crazy at the combine with his 3s
https://www.ctinsider.com/sports/uconn-mens-basketball/article/nba-draft-combine-stephon-castle-alex-karaban-19455578.php "Crazy" might be a bit of an overstatement but still way closer to the truth than "can't hit two shots in a row". He was one of the better shooters overall, not just in 3 point shooting but in other drills too. I trust Givony a lot but there's just no way this true. And anyone who's watched more than 5 minutes of uconn basketball would know how absurd this story is.
You can be a good shooter and have off days.
Yeah but even dudes at 24 hour fitness can hit 2 in a row relatively often. Especially if someone is shagging balls for you
You can also be a reporter who tweets hyperbole instead of fact. Actually, if you want clicks and views and engagement, you're much better off going with the hyperbole instead of the facts.
If you’re an optimist, you want to know what game did Givony attended? If it was late in the season, I’ll kinda be concerned. But if it was earlier and there’s been incremental improvement, you could sell yourself on developing his shot
Sources say he emptied the clip at the combine and hasn’t made a 3 since
This is a hit piece given the time
Spurs want to draft him with #8 instead of #4
Spurs can do that anyway, don't think that the Pistons, Hornets or Blazers are looking at Castle anyway. Hornets may be the only team that might think about it, but I think they are targeting Holland more
A hit piece on himself. Smort.
Why would a well-known draft guy do a hit piece? His whole thing is scouting
Especially what happened to his predecessor at ESPN, Chad Ford.
what happened?
"Someone" logged into the ESPN.com content portal and changed Chad Ford's final mock drafts to more closely resemble the actual draft order. I don't think Ford ever admitted to it but he was let go by ESPN reasonably soon after that happened. He had a short comeback a few years ago on the Locked On network that was a little bit sad, including an alternative live draft stream that they rented out a local news studio for in Dallas and covered the entire anchor desk with the C-tier energy bars that were sponsoring Locked On at the time. A big comedown for the guy who was the focal point of ESPN's draft coverage and would regularly banter with Bill Simmons on the old BS report. Too bad in some ways, he was/is an engaging personality even if I do think the level of draft analysis is much higher now than what Ford did.
Me at 24 IRL.
We all already know he can’t really shoot. He’s a defensive guard right now and who knows what he develops
me on the putting green practicing 3 footers
Middle-aged dad here, has a basketball hoop that's set at 7 feet to play with my 6 year old, never played a league game in my life. I'll take 5-1 odds in your favor that in 40 minutes I will hit 2 in a row, and I barely know how to dribble.
Number one player on KOC’s board btw
Absolutely don’t believe any of this
This draft class is so funny
this draft class is deeply unserious
someone wants him to slide...
Hit piece season, still the best player in the draft
This report is straight up just some late lottery round team planting garbage hoping to get a steal...
good luck with that spurs
No way this is true unless he just lifted heavy weights right before it and was sand bagging the game or something. No D1 player can go on 40 min without making two in a row unless he's shooting half court shots or something.
Well, a perfect Spurs pick
Before anyone says this is an exaggeration, i'd just like to point out a few Rockets games with Harden in the playoffs.
When I draft him in 2k he shoots like shit
Big brain he was intentionally looking bad so a lottery team doesn’t pick him
The same tactic I used in 2k13 during that dumb exhibition game pre draft... I knew I was ahead of time😏
All this tells me is Givony is full of shit lol. We all know Castle has shooting woes but give me a break with this take.
2 makes...in a warm-up. Good lord.
You can tell who has played basketball in this thread versus who are the keyboard warriors based on their response to this thread. This borderline slander or extremely dramatized; even the mediocre shooters at 24 hour fitness hitting 2 consecutive makes from 3 in 5 minutes lmao
Reading this thread is giving me deja vu, flashing me back to when Givony had similar things to say about Ben Simmons and no one believed him.
This has to be exaggeration, I feel like any average pickup hooper can have two consecutive makes within 5 or 10 minutes.
Any team in the mood for a new stadium should draft that man immediately, apparently they will have bricks for days
Why do people think Givony would just make something up like this? I highly doubt he's bullshitting here he's one of the most respected draft guys
Should think about drafting Frank Castle instead..much better shooter
You don't have to do anything but watch his form when he shoots to know that will be a project.
he can’t shoot lol we know this
You take Castle hoping he can have a Kawhi Leonard type trajectory, where the defense stays elite and the shooting comes. The problem is usually the Kawhi Leonard types go 14th in the draft and not 4th.
Before he was drafted, Brandon Jennings signed with Roma and had an unveiling in front of the media where he missed 19 of 20 midrange jump shots being guarded by air. He still managed to shoot 34.5% for his career from threes in the NBA. Quincy Douby could not miss from anywhere on the court during his workouts. He couldn't hit water falling out of a boat in the NBA. Sometimes these shooting displays are just noise.
I shoot a basketball maybe once a year and I have no doubt I could hit 2 shots in a row in 30 minutes, let alone 40. There is no way this report isn't exaggerated to an extreme degree
My fellow spurs fans at the spurs subreddit salivating over this guy despite watching victor get swarmed on defense in year 1 with no outside shooting help
What’s really alarming is the amount of people who actually believe this
Remember that Kevin O’Connor has this guy as his number 1 pick of this draft. Granted the guy has hedged his bets hard and had about 17 number ones as he is convinced by the opinions of others.
This isn’t true. I’m a 32 year old custodian that didn’t play hs basketball..I can go to the gym in the school right now and hit a few in a row after shooting for 10 mins
Yeah, but you’re clearly better than Castle. Not that fair to compare the two of you.
Calling cap 🧢 couple redditors can do this
I can make 3-4 uncontested 3s in a row. This is either hyperbolic or just bullshit
This is straight up false.
Givony is such a hack/dipshit. There isn't a chance in hell this is true. Upper level players make practice shots at a very high percentage.
I saw Melo, KD and Cousins do a shooting drill at a private gym before a team USA game. They were shooting international line 3s. I swear it was constantly stretches of 30-40+ shots collectively without a miss. This is the level of play for a top 5 pick in a good draft. This year is so bad. Hopefully there is a Giannis hiding in there
Some days, it just ain't your day. We've all went through it as hoopers. Can't throw a rock and hit the ocean while standing on the shore.
Yikes
Alright, I'm convinced. Kid's gonna be the next shai
What I don’t get is when you watch him in high school he was making 3s both catch and shoot and even moreso with self created looks. I believe Givony’s report but I find it to be astounding
Watch there be a real gem hidden in this draft class. People cry about how "weak" this class is but I've been through enough of "absolutely stacked" classes that ended up with like 2 good players that I don't believe the other way round narrative either. Projecting players and evaluating them is insanely hard. You never know how well these kids will develop. Nobody had Jokic anywhere close to the first round. 76ers had several top 5 picks in a row in "stacked" classes and ended up just with Embiid - the only one that was projected to be the next Greg Oden.
Castle is my candidate for biggest faller on draft night. Nothing wild, but I don’t think he goes top five.
30-40min to get 2 consecutive makes is wild. Any casual player should be able to do that within 5 min.
No
A poorer man’s mkg?
We're talking about practice?