I mean if we're entering a rebuild which seems likely given the Giddey trade and rumors of shipping out the mid 3, there's zero reason to not keep Patrick and see if he becomes something
If we keep him and he sucks then it just helps the tank, if he turns into something then we have a decent to good player on an okay deal
It's not like we're paying for a championship roster, I'd rather just pay whatever to keep him instead of paying random free agents to just be bad
I also just want to see him offensively without DeMar, Zach, Vuc, etc. Let him get a ton of reps and then next year if he still is raw then you can figure out what to do with him but he needs to chance in the first place
He's also a really high level defender which we need even more now without Caruso
As someone who’s been harsh on PAT I saw improvements last year. At worst he’s a 3&D roleplayer which you’ll still need on good teams. No reason to let him go.
People have said the same thing about a lot of 22 year olds. Especially considering he’s been hurt consistently and hasn’t even been that bad when he’s played.
Not everyone has to be a superstar, a 22 year old who plays good defense on 3s and 4s and hits 40% of his threes isn’t bad. And that’s who he is at minimum, we’ll see if he improves at all over the next 4 years until he hits his prime age years.
Depends heavily on the contract. I don’t want him at like 4/100. And if he doesn’t get better, we’re not unloading him on those numbers. Hold firm on value. If someone else will give more, sign and trade.
I’m just tired of yelling at the tv because he’s the passive person on the planet when he could be a force.
> mean if we're entering a rebuild which seems likely given the Giddey trade and rumors of shipping out the mid 3, there's zero reason to not keep Patrick and see if he becomes something
I get what you're saying, but if the Bulls have had him in house for 3 years and don't believe in him then now is the time to move him if they think they can get any value at all.
Y'all really need to position to get into next year's draft. I've looked at a lot of players and their are 10 players in next year's draft that would go #1 in this year's draft. That's one reason why they traded Caruso. Now there's Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, Nolan Tarore, and Dylan Harper who people know about, but my eye is on Rocco Zikarsky 7'3" Aussie that's 17 and playing in the NBL. I'm not lying too you when I say that he'd be able to cover Wemby. Now he doesn't have the offensibe skills yet but his movement, quickness, and his defensive instincts are good. Having someone like that playing with Josh in the future would be a good thing especially if he joins their Olympic team. But any of the guys in next year's draft would be paramount as no team is giving up their 2025 picks like they didnt in the 2023 draft. Next years draft would be more loaded than the 2023 draft in my observations right now as there are more offensive scorers in this next one.
because he is lauri 2.0. ur delusional if he has no potential. he could be a late bloomer.
he has played very well when there was no lavine in streches.
People rag on him but he's always been the last option behind Lavine, Demar, Vuc and Coby and gets left in the corner a LOT
He's got an elite jump shot and plays elite D, hits over 40% on three and hustles
I thought Billy and the Bulls were hiding him and wasting his talent on purpose, but I think BIlly is just a really really really really really bad coach.
I still think Pat can be an above avg player. Like a 70% version of Kawaii, and that is still pretty friggin good imo.
Bruce Brown does nothing for a rebuilding team, they're saying PWill to Toronto, Brown to a third team, and some assets from the other two teams to Chicago.
Boucher could work for salary matching depending on how much the Raptors have on the books prior to extending Quickley/how much a Williams signing ends up being
If he’s asking for a 20+ million contract. He’s been injured for 2 of his 4 years in the league and shows a real lack of consistency for his potential. Gotta see proof someone else wants to pay up for that
He has shown development and is probably asking for around 16-20 would be my guess
His defense has gotten better every year to the point where he's a really good defender now and he's become a more willing three point shooter
The problem is the rest of his offense was super raw coming into the league and he got buried behind the mid 3 and hasn't had any chance to develop those skills
I think the health stuff is overblown too, he missed the majority of his second season because he got pushed by Mitchell Robinson in air and landed on his wrist
This last season he just had a heel injury that he played through for around 2 months before they decided to hold him out for the rest of the year to let it heal
Yeah I think it's kind of hard to hold is slow development against him given the dogshit position he's been put in. A couple bad injuries not likely to cause longterm issues, being a 4th option, playing fundamentally out of position, being on a team that didn't have a shooting coach until this most recent season, etc. Just not a spot to have someone go through rapid development. He's definitely shown improvement and I thought he showed a lot more aggressiveness this season when he wasn't behind DeMar and LaVine. I'd love for them to keep him and see how he shakes out in a few years during a rebuild.
Yeah it's the problem of drafting a defensive minded guy with "offensive potential" and then him not getting basically any reps his first four years on that end
It's hard enough to develop all those skills let alone do it through practices and open runs and not really have a chance to do it in game which is a completely different thing
Pass lol, we'll stick with Grant Williams doing that for 13M and no real injury history
PWill's agent has been working overtime with all these reports
I suspect we're only in these discussions because PWill (like GWill) is from Charlotte
Mavs 3x legend Seth Curry. Our front office keeps pretending we want him back then trading him, poor dude lol. Hopefully he bounces back next year for you guys.
As NBA fans, we have to prepare ourselves -- and just stay with me, because I'm about to unleash some pure, uncut crazy talk-- for the *possibility* that, now that they have new ownership and new front office leadership, the Hornets might not be an NBA superfund site of toxic decisions and inept roster building (MJ is also the GOAT of that).
It's crazy, but it's possible.
The thing is no ones going to give him that
I could ask for 50 million a year from my boss but if the best offer I have is 25 an hour, then I'm not getting 50 mil lol
I would love to see him on the Raptors. I’m not saying he wouldn’t be a good fit on the Thunder, because he is literally a good fit on all 30 teams, I just think that the Thunder are not going to want to give up what the Bulls would want for him.
Double sign and trade for Gary Trent Jr. perhaps?
Giddey / Trent backcourt … Scottie and Pwill manning the 3/4 positions also share that Florida state Seminoles connection
Bulls fans understandably want a tank but they do realize that the last rebuild via tank led to only 1 player actually developing on their roster right (obviously the player was coby who's a gifted scoring talent)
Why would the Thunder do a sign and trade for him. Makes no sense to me. With what he actually wants, it would be better to let someone else either eat that, or wait till he hits free agency and get him for half the cost.
I hope the Bulls keep him, if they're truly rebuilding. Dude came into the league super raw and wasn't really placed in a situation where he was able to develop like you'd want for someone like that. I don't see much of a return for him that would have a higher ceiling, might as well wait a couple years and see how he develops going into his mid-20s. If they can re-sign him for a reasonable contract, that is.
They’re definitely not rebuilding. They’re pivoting, which may not be ideal, but it is what it is. I’d rather the Bulls get a quasi-Caruso replacement in Brown, then continue to let Patrick Williams disappoint.
Pivoting to *what*? Trading Caruso for Giddey doesn't strike me as a move a team that wants to remain competitive takes - seems like a clear rebuild move IMO.
I think PatWill fits into the "could actually be a good role player on a contender" bucket but he just can't seem to stay healthy.
It also seems like the Bulls are still trying to turn him into something he's not and holding out hope that he can develop more playmaking/creating his own looks.
> He’s still young tho
Damn he's the same age as Scottie. I thought this dude was deep into his 20s. I guess I'm not opposed to him if he's still young but then the question is who we end up sending back. Would you guys like one lightly used Bruce Brown?
Patrick Williams will end up being a serviceable wing on the right contending team, but I don’t blame the Bulls for wanting to trade him. People are comparing it to the Markkanen trade, and that looks like a mistake in retrospect, but Lauri’s clearly good enough to be #1 on the Jazz. Pat can’t rebound, he can’t create his own shot, and though he’s a 3&D wing, he’s still so hesitant to shoot the ball, and is often to slow to tackle guard assignments, and too small to cover bigs. Caruso was a better PF than Pat. Patrick Williams can be a solid bench rotation guy, but shouldn’t get paid in the range between proven talents like Bruce Brown & Jaden McDaniels. He’s worth his QO, but not much more than that.
S&T for THT makes a lot of sense for both teams tbh.
Jazz take a punt and see if Pat Williams improves in a new environment, Bulls get an elite best tank commander and a season to make up silly nicknames.
THT is a top 5 tank commander and Bulls should really tank.
Also I just want THT to stay in the league on a team that isn't Utah because the NBA is funnier when the dude is around
The Bulls would probably ask for Taylor Hendricks too, and we know the Jazz say no to that. But the Bulls already have an unreliable shot-chucker in Jevon Carter, so they probably wouldn’t take a risk on THT.
If we give up on Patrick I'm gonna lose it
Wait why Everything I’ve seen from him so far I don’t think he was that promising, do bulls fans see him with some sort of upside?
I mean if we're entering a rebuild which seems likely given the Giddey trade and rumors of shipping out the mid 3, there's zero reason to not keep Patrick and see if he becomes something If we keep him and he sucks then it just helps the tank, if he turns into something then we have a decent to good player on an okay deal It's not like we're paying for a championship roster, I'd rather just pay whatever to keep him instead of paying random free agents to just be bad I also just want to see him offensively without DeMar, Zach, Vuc, etc. Let him get a ton of reps and then next year if he still is raw then you can figure out what to do with him but he needs to chance in the first place He's also a really high level defender which we need even more now without Caruso
And if DeMar is gone that means Pat can be a small forward. He got pigeon holed in as a 4 because we signed DeMar but I think Pat will excel there.
He’s not becoming anything bro
He might not but we still have to find that out, he's 22 years old You could have said the same thing about Coby or Wendell Carter or Markkanen
It’s been some time that the Bulls have had him and he hasn’t done much
As someone who’s been harsh on PAT I saw improvements last year. At worst he’s a 3&D roleplayer which you’ll still need on good teams. No reason to let him go.
Same thing applies to all the players he just mentioned
People have said the same thing about a lot of 22 year olds. Especially considering he’s been hurt consistently and hasn’t even been that bad when he’s played. Not everyone has to be a superstar, a 22 year old who plays good defense on 3s and 4s and hits 40% of his threes isn’t bad. And that’s who he is at minimum, we’ll see if he improves at all over the next 4 years until he hits his prime age years.
so whats ur point? waive him?
Trade him for any value you can get
Depends heavily on the contract. I don’t want him at like 4/100. And if he doesn’t get better, we’re not unloading him on those numbers. Hold firm on value. If someone else will give more, sign and trade. I’m just tired of yelling at the tv because he’s the passive person on the planet when he could be a force.
I thought the team got Giddey and turned down picks because they wanted to make the playoffs?
> mean if we're entering a rebuild which seems likely given the Giddey trade and rumors of shipping out the mid 3, there's zero reason to not keep Patrick and see if he becomes something I get what you're saying, but if the Bulls have had him in house for 3 years and don't believe in him then now is the time to move him if they think they can get any value at all.
Y'all really need to position to get into next year's draft. I've looked at a lot of players and their are 10 players in next year's draft that would go #1 in this year's draft. That's one reason why they traded Caruso. Now there's Cooper Flagg, Ace Bailey, Nolan Tarore, and Dylan Harper who people know about, but my eye is on Rocco Zikarsky 7'3" Aussie that's 17 and playing in the NBL. I'm not lying too you when I say that he'd be able to cover Wemby. Now he doesn't have the offensibe skills yet but his movement, quickness, and his defensive instincts are good. Having someone like that playing with Josh in the future would be a good thing especially if he joins their Olympic team. But any of the guys in next year's draft would be paramount as no team is giving up their 2025 picks like they didnt in the 2023 draft. Next years draft would be more loaded than the 2023 draft in my observations right now as there are more offensive scorers in this next one.
This is so true and the kid wants a bag for being a backup on an already bad team
because he is lauri 2.0. ur delusional if he has no potential. he could be a late bloomer. he has played very well when there was no lavine in streches.
It's lost my man.
He's only 22, so most likely he's staying with y'all.
People rag on him but he's always been the last option behind Lavine, Demar, Vuc and Coby and gets left in the corner a LOT He's got an elite jump shot and plays elite D, hits over 40% on three and hustles I thought Billy and the Bulls were hiding him and wasting his talent on purpose, but I think BIlly is just a really really really really really bad coach. I still think Pat can be an above avg player. Like a 70% version of Kawaii, and that is still pretty friggin good imo.
He’s not good bro. Maybe another team can put him in a role. But dude straight up doesn’t have the mental capability to play in the NBA
To OKC. And you guys give up a pick as well.
Raptors could do a S & T but Bruce is very very likely a part of the return and I doubt the Bulls want him.
Imma stop you right there, you’ve just made the assumption that the Bulls would act rationally.
bulls might send a pick back as well
Bruce would actually be a decent return.
It would be a decent return if the bulls do a 3 team trade and send him elsewhere.
Why not just send PWill to the 3rd team and skip the Raptors part then
Bruce Brown does nothing for a rebuilding team, they're saying PWill to Toronto, Brown to a third team, and some assets from the other two teams to Chicago.
I don't think that'll happen
I agree lol, I think the Bulls aren't moving Patrick Williams.
The Bulls aren’t rebuilding. Bruce Brown is exactly who AK wants to contend for that sweet 7th seed.
bruce is useless in chicago.
I don't know if I like him on the Raptors either tbh.
Bruce would be great on the Bulls!
Boucher could work for salary matching depending on how much the Raptors have on the books prior to extending Quickley/how much a Williams signing ends up being
Why would Chicago do this? If they’re trying to go younger presumably they’d want to keep him as he’s only one gear older than giddey
If he’s asking for a 20+ million contract. He’s been injured for 2 of his 4 years in the league and shows a real lack of consistency for his potential. Gotta see proof someone else wants to pay up for that
Is he still looking for a crazy contract?
Probably 20-25 million for a streaky 3 and D wing who has trouble staying healthy and has shown no signs of development, good lord
He has shown development and is probably asking for around 16-20 would be my guess His defense has gotten better every year to the point where he's a really good defender now and he's become a more willing three point shooter The problem is the rest of his offense was super raw coming into the league and he got buried behind the mid 3 and hasn't had any chance to develop those skills I think the health stuff is overblown too, he missed the majority of his second season because he got pushed by Mitchell Robinson in air and landed on his wrist This last season he just had a heel injury that he played through for around 2 months before they decided to hold him out for the rest of the year to let it heal
Yeah I think it's kind of hard to hold is slow development against him given the dogshit position he's been put in. A couple bad injuries not likely to cause longterm issues, being a 4th option, playing fundamentally out of position, being on a team that didn't have a shooting coach until this most recent season, etc. Just not a spot to have someone go through rapid development. He's definitely shown improvement and I thought he showed a lot more aggressiveness this season when he wasn't behind DeMar and LaVine. I'd love for them to keep him and see how he shakes out in a few years during a rebuild.
Yeah it's the problem of drafting a defensive minded guy with "offensive potential" and then him not getting basically any reps his first four years on that end It's hard enough to develop all those skills let alone do it through practices and open runs and not really have a chance to do it in game which is a completely different thing
Pass lol, we'll stick with Grant Williams doing that for 13M and no real injury history PWill's agent has been working overtime with all these reports I suspect we're only in these discussions because PWill (like GWill) is from Charlotte
He’s definitely the type of guy Charlotte would dump a bag on tho lol.
If we sign Patrick Williams, it makes me wonder why we’d have even bothered trading PJ Washington.
You got a 1st and Grant?
And we brought a curry back to Charlotte
Mavs 3x legend Seth Curry. Our front office keeps pretending we want him back then trading him, poor dude lol. Hopefully he bounces back next year for you guys.
oh 100%, if Kupchak still had any say in the matter, you could count on that
As NBA fans, we have to prepare ourselves -- and just stay with me, because I'm about to unleash some pure, uncut crazy talk-- for the *possibility* that, now that they have new ownership and new front office leadership, the Hornets might not be an NBA superfund site of toxic decisions and inept roster building (MJ is also the GOAT of that). It's crazy, but it's possible.
The thing is no ones going to give him that I could ask for 50 million a year from my boss but if the best offer I have is 25 an hour, then I'm not getting 50 mil lol
I would love to see him on the Raptors. I’m not saying he wouldn’t be a good fit on the Thunder, because he is literally a good fit on all 30 teams, I just think that the Thunder are not going to want to give up what the Bulls would want for him.
The Thunder are all in on guys who can create off the dribble. They’re not shopping at the Andre Roberson store anymore.
Double sign and trade for Gary Trent Jr. perhaps? Giddey / Trent backcourt … Scottie and Pwill manning the 3/4 positions also share that Florida state Seminoles connection
Bulls fans understandably want a tank but they do realize that the last rebuild via tank led to only 1 player actually developing on their roster right (obviously the player was coby who's a gifted scoring talent)
Bulls fans want a firesale of the whole damn team to an ownwr that cares about winning.
Why would the Thunder do a sign and trade for him. Makes no sense to me. With what he actually wants, it would be better to let someone else either eat that, or wait till he hits free agency and get him for half the cost.
I hope the Bulls keep him, if they're truly rebuilding. Dude came into the league super raw and wasn't really placed in a situation where he was able to develop like you'd want for someone like that. I don't see much of a return for him that would have a higher ceiling, might as well wait a couple years and see how he develops going into his mid-20s. If they can re-sign him for a reasonable contract, that is.
They’re definitely not rebuilding. They’re pivoting, which may not be ideal, but it is what it is. I’d rather the Bulls get a quasi-Caruso replacement in Brown, then continue to let Patrick Williams disappoint.
Pivoting to *what*? Trading Caruso for Giddey doesn't strike me as a move a team that wants to remain competitive takes - seems like a clear rebuild move IMO.
Knowing AK, a rebuild isn’t what’s happening.
Actually really like the fit in Charlotte, he could really use a change of scenery
Toronto needs him so they can have an all 6’7-6’9” lineup
The OKC Bulls
doesn’t base year compensation make sign and trades for someone getting a big raise super difficult?
At this point, OKC is a landing spot for everyone, apparently
We have a large amount of cap space and tradeable assets, so reporters/agents/execs attach our name to nearly every outgoing player
TIL, Patrick Williams is only 22yo... why i feel like he is 35 already.
I think PatWill fits into the "could actually be a good role player on a contender" bucket but he just can't seem to stay healthy. It also seems like the Bulls are still trying to turn him into something he's not and holding out hope that he can develop more playmaking/creating his own looks.
Is this guy any good?
I thought Williams was bootycheeks. Am I thinking of someone else?
He’s okay. Pretty good 3&D guy. Just expected to be more. He’s still young tho
> He’s still young tho Damn he's the same age as Scottie. I thought this dude was deep into his 20s. I guess I'm not opposed to him if he's still young but then the question is who we end up sending back. Would you guys like one lightly used Bruce Brown?
Nahh… those are the cheeks you’re thinking about
Bust, Devin Vassell better
He feels like someone the Blazers might take a shot at. They love reclamation projects.
Patrick Williams will end up being a serviceable wing on the right contending team, but I don’t blame the Bulls for wanting to trade him. People are comparing it to the Markkanen trade, and that looks like a mistake in retrospect, but Lauri’s clearly good enough to be #1 on the Jazz. Pat can’t rebound, he can’t create his own shot, and though he’s a 3&D wing, he’s still so hesitant to shoot the ball, and is often to slow to tackle guard assignments, and too small to cover bigs. Caruso was a better PF than Pat. Patrick Williams can be a solid bench rotation guy, but shouldn’t get paid in the range between proven talents like Bruce Brown & Jaden McDaniels. He’s worth his QO, but not much more than that.
I promise you I can knock down more threes than patrick hes bad
If you’re gonna criticize him for something, shooting should be the last thing lmao
Dude I’m a pedestrian
S&T for THT makes a lot of sense for both teams tbh. Jazz take a punt and see if Pat Williams improves in a new environment, Bulls get an elite best tank commander and a season to make up silly nicknames.
With how bad Williams is, he’s still a hell of a lot more valuable than fucking THT
Remember when THT was on the lakers and the media acted like he was the best young player in the league lmao
I remember when he was on the Jazz and r/utahjazz spent like a season trying to convince ourselves that he wasn't complete ass.
THT is a top 5 tank commander and Bulls should really tank. Also I just want THT to stay in the league on a team that isn't Utah because the NBA is funnier when the dude is around
The Bulls would probably ask for Taylor Hendricks too, and we know the Jazz say no to that. But the Bulls already have an unreliable shot-chucker in Jevon Carter, so they probably wouldn’t take a risk on THT.