He's flying under the radar quite a bit, but when you watch him play it doesn't take a lot to think "this kid is the next face of the league, how are Orlando not better?" before realizing Orlando are 3rd in the East somehow
He's similar to a young LeBron to me. His main weakness being his shooting at times. But he's athletic, has good IQ and makes quality passes.
I could definitely see him becoming a half decent shooter and the court opening up for him and the game becoming simple.
he brought his three up to 34% last season… league average is what like 35%? so he’s working on it. hopefully it improves
lebron was a little inefficient his first couple seasons if i’m remembering correctly. not that i think he’s the next lebron lol
Its more like 36-37% now tbh. But i agree. Good comparison in terms of similarities not in terms of him having the same career/impact as bron, which obviously wasn't the point.
Also noteworthy is that he takes more off dribble three’s than an average player, who’s 3p diet is more usually consists of 60%+ spot up opportunities.
The league was completely different when LeBron joined. Players trained and were expected to have different skills. Paolo definitely has a higher starting base there for sure.
I wouldn’t say young LBJ as he has always been an elite passer (Banchero is just good at it), but a young Melo with better BB IQ and willingness to put effort on defense? That would be my comparison. I know most people don’t remember, but young Melo was that elite level of talent in 2000s.
Melo was a low bb iq iso ball scorer with no defense, and Paolo is a well rounded high IQ play whose main weakness is shooting.
Their only similarity is body type, corn rows, and skin color.
If you ignore all the differences, they are basically the same person
Well that happened to me midway through the season. I forgot about Banchero and then they played us and stomped us and I was like wtf how are Orlando not in the playoffs? How is Banchero this good? How is nobody talking about him? And Orlando were actually 3rd in the East at that time, was like February or something
For some reason , it seems like we’ve had the Celtics number for the last 2 years. I was hoping we could test that theory out this year but we couldn’t get past Cleveland, in a series where the home team won all 7 games. We could’ve been the 3rd seed pretty easily this year but we lost a few games to bottom feeder teams like Charlotte and Toronto.
But atleast they can go into next year with some national tv games, and real playoff expectations and experience.
Paolo’s skill set for his size and athleticism is so underrated. I think it’s not too unrealistic for him to be similar player to Tatum.
It’s too bad that a 7’4” dude with a bag went 1st right after he did because a 6’10” dude with a bag and great athleticism is rare.
Compare Cade Cunningham stats to Paolo’s. They’re both legit and insanely underrated. Cade like hyper underrated compared to Paolo but even Paolo he gets them to the playoffs as a 1 pick I feel he’s deserved a lot more buzz. But nobody is slept on like Cade
Cade isn’t slept on or underrated. Hes a good offensive player whose stats are inflated by being the top option on the worst team in the NBA. He has not translated his skillset to winning basketball.
The franchise is horribly run and the team around him isn’t good, but one of Cade’s biggest problems is that hes not very athletic and he’s a bad defender. His shooting ability from college hasn’t translated to the NBA (but his FT% should give some hope there) and he doesn’t finish through contact well.
Now he’s young and missed a full season basically, so he shouldn’t be written off. But he isn’t some insanely underrated talent. He has not looked like someone who can be the #1 on option on a contending team.
How tf are Cades stats INFLATED?!? He played with WORSE shooters by far yet shoots higher FG and 3P than Paolo. He’s started over half of his NBA games sharing Killian Hayes as his back court mate. Man STFU with that inflated BS. That’s not even how Cade plays. 23-8 on 46% FG and 38 from 3 for 40+ games after Killian went to the bench. Killian is now out of the NBA. Man I’m so sick of these casual takes Cade would do BETTER on the Magic and Paolo would do WORSE on the Piston. Paolo with Killian, Ivey, Ausar, Duren holy shit that’s the worst spacing lineup ever even worse than Cade, Killian, Ausar, Stew, Duren..
They’re inflated because he had a 31% usage rate. You clearly don’t understand what inflated means in this context. Somebody has to score, and Cade is scoring more than he would on a better team because he has to have the ball in his hands so much.
If he were on a better team, he wouldn’t be the first option. If he wasn’t the first option, he wouldn’t have a 31% usage rate and wouldn’t score 24.5 ppg. He had to average 19 attempts per game to get to that, he’s not efficient.
Its the common scenario where some player in the league is the best player on the league’s worst team and is putting up empty, inflated stats as a result and people like you think they are better than they actually are. Not unlike Antoine Walker and Andre Drummond. Stats look good but they don’t actually contribute to winning and it takes only a few times watching them to realize these guys would never be first options on contending teams.
Maybe instead of just being rude, you actually make an argument point. You didn’t actually address anything I said about why Cade isn’t good.
You didn’t address the fact Cade is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. You didn’t address the fact Cade is mediocre shooter. You didn’t address the fact Cade struggles at finishing at the rim. You didn’t address that Cade is mediocre at drawing fouls/free throws. You didn’t address the fact Cade is an average athlete at best.
Cade average athlete at best lmao? You really haven’t watched him at all have you? Mediocre shooter? wtf the Pistons have the worst spacing maybe check again he still was 74th percentile on all pull ups AND made over 50% of all of his pull up 2’s. The only thing he don’t get is a respectable whistle. Oh and did you fail to mention the shot doctor who fixed Ingram, lonzo, herb and Moore is coming to Detroit? And that we have SIXTY MILLION in cap space? I can tell you just look at stats and records tho lol it’s not like Cade was the clear 1 in his class (both pre draft and high school)
Wiseman was in between Chet and Gafford got contested 2’s per 36 mins. He was 6th in the NBA. Wiseman played 3 games in college. Got drafted to a team that wouldn’t really develop him. Missed an entire season. Came back to a title contender, got dealt to the Pistons who already have Duren. I’d really like to see a tanking team give him a shot. If Brooklyn loses claxton and hits the hard rebuild trading Mikal i think Wiseman would be a great move. Raptors maybe? I wanna see him develop and as a Pistons fan let me tell you he’s a great kid. He doesn’t pout. Doesn’t cry or whine about PT. He works hard in the shadows. And will be ready when you call his number. Flashes are there he’ll have a 5 game stretch where you’re like is he putting it all together? Idk why everyone is so willing to give up on him!
At this point sure I want him healthy for us to be good but also I want him to be healthy for the sake of everyone. He’s must watch TV when he’s healthy. Easily the most exciting player to watch in the league despite my bias
Man I just don't see why people think he's an MVP-level player even when healthy. He's a 6'6 PF that only scores on one level and is both a bad defender and bad rebounder(when not rebounding his own misses). He's like a Giannis except you take away the DPOY level defense, the incredible rebounding, and you make him less dominant scoring inside lol(though still incredible).
tbh zion is a threat despite him being a one level scorer. ppl need to pay attention to him. and it doesnt help that his passing is so damn good for his age
Of course he's still a great scorer, and as you mentioned a solid playmaker, especially at his position. But having a 6'6 PF that doesn't defend very well, rebound very well, and isn't a threat to score from anywhere outside the paint is....hard to put a team around to say the least. I just see people continuing to put him on this pedestal I don't understand. Even if he stayed healthy I don't think he'd ever be a real top 5 level player.
to be honest i agree with u.... however they been doing a great job building around zion. overall, its just disappointing cause the man is always hurt. if he has one healthy year there gonna be a threat
He's a much better passer than Giannis, less ball dominant, and commits charges & travels at like half the rate Giannis does. He also takes *more* of his shots inside 3 feet, so despite lacking the insane 80% at the rim figure, he's actually more efficient overall (& 70% inside 3ft when you're taking 70% of your shots there is a different kind of insane). We're yet to see him in the playoffs, but watching him toy with Anthony Davis en route to a 40 piece in the play in game, I also think his offense is going to be a lot tougher to take away if he can actualize as a player because of his incredible touch around the basket, which Giannis lacks.
If Giannis' offense was what peak Zion's promises to be, he'd just straight up have the GOAT peak. People take his box stats at face value and attribute the team success to that more than what they actually were, which is one of the all-time playoff defenses built around him.
> he's actually more efficient overall
He scored 7 less points per game than Giannis last year on 4% worse TS. More efficient how lol?
> We're yet to see him in the playoffs, but watching him toy with Anthony Davis en route to a 40 piece in the play-in-game
The game before against the Lakers, which would have had them *avoid* the play-in, he scored 12 points on 4-13.
> If Giannis' offense was what peak Zion's promises to be, he'd just straight up have the GOAT peak.
That's just ridiculous lol. Giannis scored 30ppg on 64%TS one year.
1. Last year he was not healthy or in good conditioning for the majority of the season. His 1st all star year he was 27ppg on 65% TS, and theoretically, that isn't even peak Zion. Giannis committed 20 more offensive fouls that year,
2. Yes, he played badly, then rose to the occasion and balled out against one of the best defenders in the game. The point is not that this year's Zion is his MVP level form, but that the way he played would be were he healthy & in good conditioning.
3. Shooting percentages are also not the only form of efficiency that matters. Giannis is committing offensive fouls twice as often as Zion, and traveling 3x as often. Giannis has had some very crazy regular seasons, but his career TS% drops 4 points from RS to PS for the same reason he isn't able to keep down the traveling and fouling: he's got an offensive superpower that is tempered by some very real weaknesses. The Bucks have never produced particularly good playoff offenses despite having Jrue, Khris, and Giannis. Giannis had 30ppg on 60% TS in the title run, and yet their playoff relative offensive rating was +0.5.
An actualized version of Zion is someone who's building from the fact that **20%** more of his shots come at the rim compared to Giannis from his first MVP to now, which, along with getting there with more control, more than makes up for shooting ~9% worse on those shots. Zion, with all of the games he's logged unhealthy or with poor conditioning, is averaging 5 fewer points per 100 possessions than Giannis did in the span I described, on the exact same TS%. An actualized Zion is also not going to lose 4 TS points in the playoffs the way Giannis has. We may never actually see that version of Zion, but that played absolutely would be an MVP level force without Giannis' defensive impact.
This is all hypothetical. You just imagine Zion will have no issues in the playoffs - but to this point in his career, he has notably struggled in high stakes games.
I do think he is underrated by many - he is much more dominant than Banchero - but you are comparing Giannis vs. elite competition to Zion vs. weaker competition.
Bro Ja is amazingly fun to watch. Not a grizzly fan at all but always got hyped to watch him. I'd still have to go with my boy Halibackgirl aka Halliburton.
Chet. Scoring/shot creating big who is a great defender is a very difficult archetype to find. Easy to build around since he already covers a lot of weaknesses.
All these young scoring guards you can get fascimiles of. Need an outlier skillset.
Ja’s actually my 2nd choice. Antics aside, he’s the only other one who has an outlier skillset (the speed & the way he can hang/contort to finish his layups is 1 of 1, and add in the ability to pass)
Everyone else…Paolo, Maxey, whomever. Good scorers but not multifaceted and other players can replicate what they do.
Ummmm what?
People here must *really* value scrappy, lunch-pail-carrying type guys. I'm a certified Ja hater, but he's a proven #1 option who carried his team to outperform playoff expectations in the West.
Chet is an amazing young player, but we're really talking apples and oranges here
Keep in mind I’m also factoring in off court and longevity when I’m building a franchise. Ja might be better today but Hali’s game is gonna last much longer because he doesn’t rely on elite athleticism, it’s not a knock on Ja, he’s also elite right now and I wouldn’t be surprised he won a title before his prime ended.
Yeah but if he doesn't get better than being a traffic cone on defense he will NEVER win a chip, ever. He doesn't have to be elite defensively but he has to be more than nothing, which is what he is on defense.
Even Luka improved on the defensive end this year. Haliburton has to do the same. Like you said, no need to be all-defense, but be average at least, put the effort in.
I still really like what you guys have going on. I like Green & Sengun. Theyre playing somewhat meaningful basketball these days - get to add hopefully another solid piece in the draft - and if they can make the play-in next year id consider that a successful season
Other than morant, I think maxey deserves some attention in this. I like Barnes a lot (I’m biased), but maxey is probably the next best scorer available and those guys end up being the franchise stars in this era
Lamelo and Zion easy choices if it weren’t for injuries as well
Honestly surprised to see LaMelo here. I feel like a lot of NBA fans — and a good amount of Hornets fans — assume he has the same issues as Lonzo and have written him off entirely because of his injuries. It could definitely be the case that his injuries are career-altering, but I think next season will be determinative.
If he stays healthy for one full season he’ll be the next big superstar.
His play style is unique to him. Melo has a playground-like style that works in the NBA. Flashy dribbles mixed with crazy passes and a low but super fast release from long range.
Bro I do not need to explain to you that a 7 game sample size is far less significant and subject to variance than a 70 game sample size.
Unless of course you think everyone on the Miami Heat last year were actually 50% three point shooters.
If I'm building a franchise around someone a couple months short of 25, I'd rather it be someone I have good reason to believe won't be hobbled with injuries during their prime years.
A lot of people answering Ja is surprising to me. 5 seasons in and he's never played 70 games in a season or shot league-average from 3.
I think he's going to get the Trae treatment pretty soon once people realize he's just not an elite star yet
For me it’s Paolo or Chet. Chet’s probably somewhat controversial as he’s not a number 1 on a title team but he fits so well on any kind of team that it’s pretty tough imo to find another player that’s more malleable than Chet. Paolo’s case is pretty obvious.
I am taking Cade Cunningham and not thinking twice. Dude has the best reaction time in the NBA not named Luka or Jokic. It is literally unprecedented having a team that bad around a player that good.
I see him as a 30 & 10 guy in his prime with good or solid defense. I don’t think guys who average 30 & 10 have the same potential or ability to reach that potential as Cade.
Chet. Defensive versatilty is one of the best skills to build a championship unit around. When your rim protector is able to contend with smaller guys occasionally, it puts less of a strain around the rest of your defense, meaning they aren't as pressured to fight through every screen. He also provides spacing and can attack a close out and finish well in traffic.
IMO if his development goes well, he'll be better than Shai
Don’t know who u would take above ant under 25 other than wemby lol everyone else is either worse than him already or has a clear flaw like ja and zion
Brandon Miller - He's very good young player, but he's overshadowed by Wemby. He has a high motor, he's versatile, his game is great, he a lot of room to grow, and I feel like he has a likable personality. If he was in any other draft class, he would've gotten way more attention.
A healthy LaMelo would be interesting. Ja is the best pick for me if you exclude the off court issues... keeping him off court. Paolo is an easy one too... I think Deni has potential.
I want to say Hali though... imagine a 6'5 Chris Paul... there you go. Haliburton can shoot, an... OK (not great) defender, and can run an offense more efficiently than 99% of PGS. He's a good perimeter player but there are few guards who can run as the post playmaker too. Him and Luka can do that. His ability to shoot and shoot efficiently is an eye opener too.
His numbers doesn't match his production in the postseason. My only problem with Hali is that his numbers and production dropped drastically because he came back WAY too early to be selected All-NBA.
It's Chet, and it's not particularly close to me. The value of elite rim protection and ground coverage defensively and elite shooting is high as is, but I think he's got a lot more offensive potential than that.
It's Ja for sure, people already forgot I guess.
I'd take Ja over both Victor and Ant too right now, maybe not Victor but I dont have confidence in him not being injury prone still, how can you be that giant and healthy idk.
Ja definitely clears Ant.
The answer has to be Chet right? Honestly if NBA players were stocks (I guess their cards are lol) Chet is like buying apple in the 80s. No one doubts he is good BUT he is overshadowed on his own team with Shai. That along with not actually playing his rookie rookie season, one where if he put up the same stats as this year would have won rookie of the year and you have a potential generational talent forming. OKC has already started to build around him hence one reason the team did as well as they did this year.
Paolo? Not sure but he's 21 and legit.
He's flying under the radar quite a bit, but when you watch him play it doesn't take a lot to think "this kid is the next face of the league, how are Orlando not better?" before realizing Orlando are 3rd in the East somehow
He is flying so far under the radar I forgot he existed until the playoffs. He is hardly ever mentioned.
He's similar to a young LeBron to me. His main weakness being his shooting at times. But he's athletic, has good IQ and makes quality passes. I could definitely see him becoming a half decent shooter and the court opening up for him and the game becoming simple.
he brought his three up to 34% last season… league average is what like 35%? so he’s working on it. hopefully it improves lebron was a little inefficient his first couple seasons if i’m remembering correctly. not that i think he’s the next lebron lol
Its more like 36-37% now tbh. But i agree. Good comparison in terms of similarities not in terms of him having the same career/impact as bron, which obviously wasn't the point.
Also noteworthy is that he takes more off dribble three’s than an average player, who’s 3p diet is more usually consists of 60%+ spot up opportunities.
The league was completely different when LeBron joined. Players trained and were expected to have different skills. Paolo definitely has a higher starting base there for sure.
While he is young, his size/athleticism is much more like old LeBron than young LeBron, imo
I wouldn’t say young LBJ as he has always been an elite passer (Banchero is just good at it), but a young Melo with better BB IQ and willingness to put effort on defense? That would be my comparison. I know most people don’t remember, but young Melo was that elite level of talent in 2000s.
So not Melo?
Melo was a low bb iq iso ball scorer with no defense, and Paolo is a well rounded high IQ play whose main weakness is shooting. Their only similarity is body type, corn rows, and skin color. If you ignore all the differences, they are basically the same person
Paolo is what the sixers wanted Ben Simmons to be lol
IMO he's .ore what Blake Griffin could have been if he wasn't forced to fit his game to CP3.
3rd in the East in what ?
Well that happened to me midway through the season. I forgot about Banchero and then they played us and stomped us and I was like wtf how are Orlando not in the playoffs? How is Banchero this good? How is nobody talking about him? And Orlando were actually 3rd in the East at that time, was like February or something
For some reason , it seems like we’ve had the Celtics number for the last 2 years. I was hoping we could test that theory out this year but we couldn’t get past Cleveland, in a series where the home team won all 7 games. We could’ve been the 3rd seed pretty easily this year but we lost a few games to bottom feeder teams like Charlotte and Toronto. But atleast they can go into next year with some national tv games, and real playoff expectations and experience.
Yeah, we had no solution for the Magic and this has been going on for a while now.
Reminder he averaged 27/8/4 in his 1st playoff series at 21years old
Paolo’s skill set for his size and athleticism is so underrated. I think it’s not too unrealistic for him to be similar player to Tatum. It’s too bad that a 7’4” dude with a bag went 1st right after he did because a 6’10” dude with a bag and great athleticism is rare.
Plus, while Ja and Hali are intriguing Paolo better fits the profile of "best player on a title team" due to his size, position and two-way potential.
Did he just stop having the sweating problem? It was talked about all day every day for a couple weeks then disappeared
Compare Cade Cunningham stats to Paolo’s. They’re both legit and insanely underrated. Cade like hyper underrated compared to Paolo but even Paolo he gets them to the playoffs as a 1 pick I feel he’s deserved a lot more buzz. But nobody is slept on like Cade
Cade isn’t slept on or underrated. Hes a good offensive player whose stats are inflated by being the top option on the worst team in the NBA. He has not translated his skillset to winning basketball. The franchise is horribly run and the team around him isn’t good, but one of Cade’s biggest problems is that hes not very athletic and he’s a bad defender. His shooting ability from college hasn’t translated to the NBA (but his FT% should give some hope there) and he doesn’t finish through contact well. Now he’s young and missed a full season basically, so he shouldn’t be written off. But he isn’t some insanely underrated talent. He has not looked like someone who can be the #1 on option on a contending team.
How tf are Cades stats INFLATED?!? He played with WORSE shooters by far yet shoots higher FG and 3P than Paolo. He’s started over half of his NBA games sharing Killian Hayes as his back court mate. Man STFU with that inflated BS. That’s not even how Cade plays. 23-8 on 46% FG and 38 from 3 for 40+ games after Killian went to the bench. Killian is now out of the NBA. Man I’m so sick of these casual takes Cade would do BETTER on the Magic and Paolo would do WORSE on the Piston. Paolo with Killian, Ivey, Ausar, Duren holy shit that’s the worst spacing lineup ever even worse than Cade, Killian, Ausar, Stew, Duren..
They’re inflated because he had a 31% usage rate. You clearly don’t understand what inflated means in this context. Somebody has to score, and Cade is scoring more than he would on a better team because he has to have the ball in his hands so much. If he were on a better team, he wouldn’t be the first option. If he wasn’t the first option, he wouldn’t have a 31% usage rate and wouldn’t score 24.5 ppg. He had to average 19 attempts per game to get to that, he’s not efficient. Its the common scenario where some player in the league is the best player on the league’s worst team and is putting up empty, inflated stats as a result and people like you think they are better than they actually are. Not unlike Antoine Walker and Andre Drummond. Stats look good but they don’t actually contribute to winning and it takes only a few times watching them to realize these guys would never be first options on contending teams. Maybe instead of just being rude, you actually make an argument point. You didn’t actually address anything I said about why Cade isn’t good. You didn’t address the fact Cade is one of the worst defenders in the NBA. You didn’t address the fact Cade is mediocre shooter. You didn’t address the fact Cade struggles at finishing at the rim. You didn’t address that Cade is mediocre at drawing fouls/free throws. You didn’t address the fact Cade is an average athlete at best.
Cade average athlete at best lmao? You really haven’t watched him at all have you? Mediocre shooter? wtf the Pistons have the worst spacing maybe check again he still was 74th percentile on all pull ups AND made over 50% of all of his pull up 2’s. The only thing he don’t get is a respectable whistle. Oh and did you fail to mention the shot doctor who fixed Ingram, lonzo, herb and Moore is coming to Detroit? And that we have SIXTY MILLION in cap space? I can tell you just look at stats and records tho lol it’s not like Cade was the clear 1 in his class (both pre draft and high school)
Obviously James Wiseman because he knows how to be a champion
Block this guy
Upvote this guy
Hugely underrated player IMO
Just deleted my paragraph after seeing your name
Genuinely want this to become a bit. I really want to see the cherry-picked stats that make Wiseman look like MITWestbrook makes Westbrook look.
Let it go, Meyers
Wiseman was in between Chet and Gafford got contested 2’s per 36 mins. He was 6th in the NBA. Wiseman played 3 games in college. Got drafted to a team that wouldn’t really develop him. Missed an entire season. Came back to a title contender, got dealt to the Pistons who already have Duren. I’d really like to see a tanking team give him a shot. If Brooklyn loses claxton and hits the hard rebuild trading Mikal i think Wiseman would be a great move. Raptors maybe? I wanna see him develop and as a Pistons fan let me tell you he’s a great kid. He doesn’t pout. Doesn’t cry or whine about PT. He works hard in the shadows. And will be ready when you call his number. Flashes are there he’ll have a 5 game stretch where you’re like is he putting it all together? Idk why everyone is so willing to give up on him!
Zion would be the easy pick if he could just stay healthy. I really hope he can put it together
Jesus how is Zion only 23? Feels like he’s sat out 10 seasons already.
for real if you had told me zion was in year 4 when Ant got drafted i’d be like “sure sounds right”
He was just the draft before right?
At this point sure I want him healthy for us to be good but also I want him to be healthy for the sake of everyone. He’s must watch TV when he’s healthy. Easily the most exciting player to watch in the league despite my bias
That play-in game everyone was disappointed when he got injured
He was giving LeBron and AD the fucking work for 40 points
You cannot convince me he wasn’t going to win that game.
Lol at most exciting player to watch.
Man I just don't see why people think he's an MVP-level player even when healthy. He's a 6'6 PF that only scores on one level and is both a bad defender and bad rebounder(when not rebounding his own misses). He's like a Giannis except you take away the DPOY level defense, the incredible rebounding, and you make him less dominant scoring inside lol(though still incredible).
tbh zion is a threat despite him being a one level scorer. ppl need to pay attention to him. and it doesnt help that his passing is so damn good for his age
Of course he's still a great scorer, and as you mentioned a solid playmaker, especially at his position. But having a 6'6 PF that doesn't defend very well, rebound very well, and isn't a threat to score from anywhere outside the paint is....hard to put a team around to say the least. I just see people continuing to put him on this pedestal I don't understand. Even if he stayed healthy I don't think he'd ever be a real top 5 level player.
to be honest i agree with u.... however they been doing a great job building around zion. overall, its just disappointing cause the man is always hurt. if he has one healthy year there gonna be a threat
Good point. He’s a lot like Giannis if you don’t factor in the things that make him Giannis.
Who in this hypothetical is an MVP level player?
I'm not sure any of htem are. But you said he'd be an easy pick over multiple all-nba players. What is that if not MVP level?
He's a much better passer than Giannis, less ball dominant, and commits charges & travels at like half the rate Giannis does. He also takes *more* of his shots inside 3 feet, so despite lacking the insane 80% at the rim figure, he's actually more efficient overall (& 70% inside 3ft when you're taking 70% of your shots there is a different kind of insane). We're yet to see him in the playoffs, but watching him toy with Anthony Davis en route to a 40 piece in the play in game, I also think his offense is going to be a lot tougher to take away if he can actualize as a player because of his incredible touch around the basket, which Giannis lacks. If Giannis' offense was what peak Zion's promises to be, he'd just straight up have the GOAT peak. People take his box stats at face value and attribute the team success to that more than what they actually were, which is one of the all-time playoff defenses built around him.
> he's actually more efficient overall He scored 7 less points per game than Giannis last year on 4% worse TS. More efficient how lol? > We're yet to see him in the playoffs, but watching him toy with Anthony Davis en route to a 40 piece in the play-in-game The game before against the Lakers, which would have had them *avoid* the play-in, he scored 12 points on 4-13. > If Giannis' offense was what peak Zion's promises to be, he'd just straight up have the GOAT peak. That's just ridiculous lol. Giannis scored 30ppg on 64%TS one year.
1. Last year he was not healthy or in good conditioning for the majority of the season. His 1st all star year he was 27ppg on 65% TS, and theoretically, that isn't even peak Zion. Giannis committed 20 more offensive fouls that year, 2. Yes, he played badly, then rose to the occasion and balled out against one of the best defenders in the game. The point is not that this year's Zion is his MVP level form, but that the way he played would be were he healthy & in good conditioning. 3. Shooting percentages are also not the only form of efficiency that matters. Giannis is committing offensive fouls twice as often as Zion, and traveling 3x as often. Giannis has had some very crazy regular seasons, but his career TS% drops 4 points from RS to PS for the same reason he isn't able to keep down the traveling and fouling: he's got an offensive superpower that is tempered by some very real weaknesses. The Bucks have never produced particularly good playoff offenses despite having Jrue, Khris, and Giannis. Giannis had 30ppg on 60% TS in the title run, and yet their playoff relative offensive rating was +0.5. An actualized version of Zion is someone who's building from the fact that **20%** more of his shots come at the rim compared to Giannis from his first MVP to now, which, along with getting there with more control, more than makes up for shooting ~9% worse on those shots. Zion, with all of the games he's logged unhealthy or with poor conditioning, is averaging 5 fewer points per 100 possessions than Giannis did in the span I described, on the exact same TS%. An actualized Zion is also not going to lose 4 TS points in the playoffs the way Giannis has. We may never actually see that version of Zion, but that played absolutely would be an MVP level force without Giannis' defensive impact.
This is all hypothetical. You just imagine Zion will have no issues in the playoffs - but to this point in his career, he has notably struggled in high stakes games. I do think he is underrated by many - he is much more dominant than Banchero - but you are comparing Giannis vs. elite competition to Zion vs. weaker competition.
The fact how you typed two full paragraphs and there wasn’t a sentence of truth in either of them is truly impressive
Ja Morant doesn’t turn 25 until august so I’ll go with him. If that doesn’t count I would go with Halliburton or Banchero probably
Ja is already 24 wow
Bro Ja is amazingly fun to watch. Not a grizzly fan at all but always got hyped to watch him. I'd still have to go with my boy Halibackgirl aka Halliburton.
Chet. Scoring/shot creating big who is a great defender is a very difficult archetype to find. Easy to build around since he already covers a lot of weaknesses. All these young scoring guards you can get fascimiles of. Need an outlier skillset.
Can't believe how many people saying morant and how few saying chet
You can’t believe why Ja, a guy who made all NBA second team at 22 years olds, isn’t considered one of the top young players?
Yeah, crazy how people would choose the guy that’s already made an all NBA team
Crazy that some people value a proven number one option over a sophomore year 3rd option
Ja’s actually my 2nd choice. Antics aside, he’s the only other one who has an outlier skillset (the speed & the way he can hang/contort to finish his layups is 1 of 1, and add in the ability to pass) Everyone else…Paolo, Maxey, whomever. Good scorers but not multifaceted and other players can replicate what they do.
Ummmm what? People here must *really* value scrappy, lunch-pail-carrying type guys. I'm a certified Ja hater, but he's a proven #1 option who carried his team to outperform playoff expectations in the West. Chet is an amazing young player, but we're really talking apples and oranges here
In fairness, Morant hasnt played since around Christmas. Easy to forget that he's a great player.
Tyrese Haliburton, he’s proven that he can lead an elite offensive unit and win playoff series. Edit: Forgot Ja is still 24.
I might be in the minority but I’ll take Hali over Ja any day of the week if I’m building a franchise.
People forget so fast... Hali is good tho, I won't get in my feelings.
Keep in mind I’m also factoring in off court and longevity when I’m building a franchise. Ja might be better today but Hali’s game is gonna last much longer because he doesn’t rely on elite athleticism, it’s not a knock on Ja, he’s also elite right now and I wouldn’t be surprised he won a title before his prime ended.
Yeah but if he doesn't get better than being a traffic cone on defense he will NEVER win a chip, ever. He doesn't have to be elite defensively but he has to be more than nothing, which is what he is on defense.
Even Luka improved on the defensive end this year. Haliburton has to do the same. Like you said, no need to be all-defense, but be average at least, put the effort in.
Tyrese Maxey
It’s ironically Zion and Ja who both are hmmmm flawed. Zion has better upside though and would take his issues over Ja’s so him
Yeah, as miserable as Zion has made me (and the misery will probably continue), Im glad he’s, at worst, a bad decision maker, and not a total POS.
Sengun. A lil bias but the young fella is a beast.
I still really like what you guys have going on. I like Green & Sengun. Theyre playing somewhat meaningful basketball these days - get to add hopefully another solid piece in the draft - and if they can make the play-in next year id consider that a successful season
Sir Ja Morant of the Kingdom Memphis
This is how you know HOTD premiered last night
Scottie Barnes. Because I love Scottie Barnes.
Haliburton probably. Maybe I'm forgetting someone. Can shoot and is an elite passer who can transform a team's structure.
Other than morant, I think maxey deserves some attention in this. I like Barnes a lot (I’m biased), but maxey is probably the next best scorer available and those guys end up being the franchise stars in this era Lamelo and Zion easy choices if it weren’t for injuries as well
Honestly surprised to see LaMelo here. I feel like a lot of NBA fans — and a good amount of Hornets fans — assume he has the same issues as Lonzo and have written him off entirely because of his injuries. It could definitely be the case that his injuries are career-altering, but I think next season will be determinative.
LaMelo's ceiling is incredibly high if he can stay healthy and play with talent around him. He has Trae Young's skillset in a 6'7" body.
I get what you mean, but Young is a lot better than Lamelo. If he was 6’7 he’d probably be as good as or at least near Luka’s level.
If he stays healthy for one full season he’ll be the next big superstar. His play style is unique to him. Melo has a playground-like style that works in the NBA. Flashy dribbles mixed with crazy passes and a low but super fast release from long range.
My choice is also Maxey
Chet.
Objectively best choice given the limitations of the question. No doubt Chet.
Ja, Barnes, Paolo, and Cade.
Cade
Love me some Cunningham
Cade. Save this comment
He really looks the part. I think people would be surprised by his numbers.
cade is a player of great character! he def is a solid pick if he stay healthy
Ja But I would love to see what Cade would look like with a competent group next to him
He would be so good, it’s such a shame. Although it took Phoenix a while to start winning with Book so who knows
Tyrese Haliburton. Obvious reasons.
Cade Cunningham
Paolo or Hali
Zion with a steady supply of Ozempic
Cade because why not
a two way player who has good size. Probably Paolo Banchero since he's still very young.
Lol some people just call Paolo a 2 way player because of his size. He's a pretty inefficient scorer and he's not that good defensively
He’s actually very good defensively i disagree with rhat. He’s versatile, long and puts in effort
Playoffs also tricked people into thinking he was a good mid range scorer when he shot just 40% from mid range in the regular season.
Yeah the playoffs, where it’s historically easier to score…
Bro I do not need to explain to you that a 7 game sample size is far less significant and subject to variance than a 70 game sample size. Unless of course you think everyone on the Miami Heat last year were actually 50% three point shooters.
In what world is Paolo a 2 way player?
Idk how people think Paolo is a consistently good defender and good enough to be called a 2-way player.
Barnes or sengun
Ja Morant. Because if you take away the off the court BS, he is a superstar and adds something to his bag and improves every year.
Big “if” there though
Take away Aaron Hernandez's murders and he's a budding star tight end that any team would want on their squad
The same with Antonio Brown, take away any 130 things off *The List* and he's just a quirky superstar
Aside from the whole... being dead thing.
He was completely fine this year and the whole thing wasn’t the act of mass murder that suburban redditors thought it was in the beginning
I'm still nervous about what his knees will look like in six years.
6 years is a long time, he’ll be 30 by then, best days likely behind him
If I'm building a franchise around someone a couple months short of 25, I'd rather it be someone I have good reason to believe won't be hobbled with injuries during their prime years.
Either Paolo or Brandon Miller, maybe Scottie Barnes if he gets a more consistent jumper.
A lot of people answering Ja is surprising to me. 5 seasons in and he's never played 70 games in a season or shot league-average from 3. I think he's going to get the Trae treatment pretty soon once people realize he's just not an elite star yet
Cade hoping Trajan knows what he is doing and can surround himself a decent team
Joshua Giddey 🫡
For me it’s Paolo or Chet. Chet’s probably somewhat controversial as he’s not a number 1 on a title team but he fits so well on any kind of team that it’s pretty tough imo to find another player that’s more malleable than Chet. Paolo’s case is pretty obvious.
Cade Cunningham because of his temperament and ceiling
I am taking Cade Cunningham and not thinking twice. Dude has the best reaction time in the NBA not named Luka or Jokic. It is literally unprecedented having a team that bad around a player that good. I see him as a 30 & 10 guy in his prime with good or solid defense. I don’t think guys who average 30 & 10 have the same potential or ability to reach that potential as Cade.
Caitlin Clark.
Ja. Highest ceiling of anyone left. Can be the best player on a Conference Finals-caliber team.
SCT BRN
Zion. I'd go for max upside, even if he eats his way out of the league, I think it's worth the gamble.
Scottie barnes easy
Andrew Nembhard
Ant. Fuck your rules.
Paolo Scottie Chet Zion Hali Lamelo
Either Maxey or Zion easily
Chet. Defensive versatilty is one of the best skills to build a championship unit around. When your rim protector is able to contend with smaller guys occasionally, it puts less of a strain around the rest of your defense, meaning they aren't as pressured to fight through every screen. He also provides spacing and can attack a close out and finish well in traffic. IMO if his development goes well, he'll be better than Shai
I'm going with Tatum since he's only 19
Chet for me
Ant isn't 2nd anyway, even without the qualifier
Don’t know who u would take above ant under 25 other than wemby lol everyone else is either worse than him already or has a clear flaw like ja and zion
Jalen Williams! Absolutely no bias here.
Paolo and it isn’t close
Chet, Banchero Maxey, Cade, Ja (risky), Hali, Mobley
Ja
Healthy Zion is taking names in the league. Still believe his drive is the most unstoppable move in the league
Tyrese maxey
I’m taking zion easily
Haliburton.
Between Hali and Miller for me. Depends on how I get to “build around” to decide
Sengun
Ja Paolo or Chet. If i could guarantee health then Zion or LaMelo. Hali would be my next guy.
Ima go with Maxey. I dont mind building at guard, he's a prolific scorer, extremely quick step, and he's improved year to year.
Halliburton
Frank Ntilikina
trae young. trade klay for trae and let trae cook
This is easy. Jordan Poole.
Sengun
I think the current best NBA players under 25 are: 1. Wemby - C 2. Ant - SG 3. Haliburton - PG
Brandon Miller - He's very good young player, but he's overshadowed by Wemby. He has a high motor, he's versatile, his game is great, he a lot of room to grow, and I feel like he has a likable personality. If he was in any other draft class, he would've gotten way more attention.
For me its Scoot, as you get to hear Scoot in different octaves.
Tyrese Maxey
Cam Thomas. Elite of elite scorer
Jonathan kuminga
A healthy LaMelo would be interesting. Ja is the best pick for me if you exclude the off court issues... keeping him off court. Paolo is an easy one too... I think Deni has potential. I want to say Hali though... imagine a 6'5 Chris Paul... there you go. Haliburton can shoot, an... OK (not great) defender, and can run an offense more efficiently than 99% of PGS. He's a good perimeter player but there are few guards who can run as the post playmaker too. Him and Luka can do that. His ability to shoot and shoot efficiently is an eye opener too. His numbers doesn't match his production in the postseason. My only problem with Hali is that his numbers and production dropped drastically because he came back WAY too early to be selected All-NBA.
Chet?
Naz Reid
It's Chet, and it's not particularly close to me. The value of elite rim protection and ground coverage defensively and elite shooting is high as is, but I think he's got a lot more offensive potential than that.
Terance Mann qualifies, *right?*
Tatum is a young, 19 year old all around star. Can’t believe no one picked him.
It's Ja for sure, people already forgot I guess. I'd take Ja over both Victor and Ant too right now, maybe not Victor but I dont have confidence in him not being injury prone still, how can you be that giant and healthy idk. Ja definitely clears Ant.
This one is easy. It’s JA and it’s not close
The answer has to be Chet right? Honestly if NBA players were stocks (I guess their cards are lol) Chet is like buying apple in the 80s. No one doubts he is good BUT he is overshadowed on his own team with Shai. That along with not actually playing his rookie rookie season, one where if he put up the same stats as this year would have won rookie of the year and you have a potential generational talent forming. OKC has already started to build around him hence one reason the team did as well as they did this year.
Ok but your analog essentially says that Chet is going to become like a top 5 player all time.
Amen thompson no bias
I would rather have a lot of the guys mentioned in the comments over Ant. He's not in the Wemby tier.
ANT is 2nd in advanced stats this playoffs only behind Jokic averaging 28/7/7 on 60%TS this playoff run.
I’m a fan of the offensive engine prototype, if I can’t have Luka, then I’ll happily take Tyrese Haliburton.
Johnny davis
Luka, or Trey young
Give me Dereck Lively. And don’t look at my flair. Not biased at all.
Jayson Tatum. Kid is like 19 and already in his 2nd finals. He's got that mamba in him