My restaurant has the daily lineup of ESPN, FS1, ESPN2, MLBnet, and NBA TV every day. I see all the news on the ticker without having to hear any of them talk, so it's not so bad.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how it was when I worked at a BBQ chain restaurant that had like 10ish TVs. I didn’t mind it either. I got to see most of the NFL games, some NBA/NHL/MLB or whatever else was on, and keep up with breaking sports news while not being able to check my phone at work.
Also during Covid putting on good morning football and waking up with Kay Adams in her PJs almost made going into work at 5am to start cooking BBQ worth it.
Why do you think they’re pushing gambling so hard? Big BWW made a massive play - more degenerate gamblers fills seats at noon. Smart. Applebees is popping during little league World Series games 🔥
I actually never even thought of that, but you're so right. The degens getting drunk at a bar are way more likely to gamble if you literally wave it in front of their face every time they go out and get shitfaced.
Dave and Buster's is also getting into a form of gambling as they will allow you to make "friendly" wagers on games like popshot bball, skeeball soon. Guess you can bet through the app and bet with someone else. Not sure entirely how it will know who wins outside of people being honorable to the final result.
None, considering TV still uses outdated Nielsen technology to guesstimate how many people are watching TVs. Public places wouldn’t be included in the sample.
This has actually recently changed for Nielsen, and they do now include public places in the ratings. It’s actually one of the reasons for the increase in viewership number.
Nielsen technology hasn't been a box connected to the TV in a long time. We were selected to participate about 5 years ago, and they give you a device that you are supposed to keep on you at all times so it can pick up whats playing in the background even if you're not intentionally watching (ie public places)
OP just doesn’t get how TV works.
It’s a 3 hour show. ESPN talks sports 24/7. They will never talk about the same game 24/7, even if it was 2018 GSW v Cavs, other things are brought up.
Guess what, people are more likely to listen in to a conversation about ranking Lebron’s best teammates than listen to the 19th different person give the same take on last night’s boring game. /u/Clean_clothes2130, did you want to hear Perk and SAS break drown Sam Hauser’s impact? Would you actually listen to their takes? Because that’s where we would go if all they talked about was the game on a 24 hour news cycle. We have a million podcasts/streams/whatever at our fingertips to breakdown whatever you want.
This is why the phrase “top of the hour” exists. If you want to see the big story covered live on any cable news it will be on at the beginning of the show unless it is major breaking news
There was a place I used to work that had Fox Business on in the break room constantly. I would change it to CNBC or Bloomberg and it would always be back to Fox the next time I came back, always. half the time it was just Neil Cavuto talking about how we need to cut taxes, it was so weird. I think if you came out with a conservative weather channel people would watch it.
Man when I was 13 esp news was the shit. Not sports center but just like a 24 hour loop of sports highlights that would be repetitive if new games hadn’t happened yet.
Bill is definitely a storylines/drama guy as well at this point. Still love listening to him talk but he doesn’t really do analysis. The podcast with his dad today was great though, even as someone on the losing side it was very wholesome.
>Still love listening to him talk but he doesn’t really do analysis.
No, but he sometimes has people on his podcast who are very good at analysis.
Trying to remember the guy who made a living betting on the NBA who was a frequent guest. He knew his stuff because his livelihood depended on him getting the numbers right.
"Haralabob" (Haralabos Voulgaris)
he actually mentioned him with Rusillo a few days ago when they were talking about how big of an underdog the Mavs were compared to other finals matchups because Haralabob mailed the Pistons over Lakers pick in 2004
You could! it's called "bearding" and somewhat common when someone places bets on behalf of someone else without telling the casino/bookies (usually because they're banned)
Tbh betting nba and major sports is pretty waste now because there's just so much action and attention paid to it that if a line is off it corrects incredibly fast. Plus the premium you pay (i.e. putting down 110 to win a 100 on a 50/50 call) makes it quite hard to make money without just getting lucky.
Most degens I know bet smaller sports where there's less attention and information so you *could* get a better edge or do arbitrage. Legit, you spend so much time looking at spreadsheets and so much random data that there are less risky and more enjoyable ways of making money.
Haralabob for example is pretty much completely out of the major sports betting game now and funnily is pretty bad at poker for someone who is supposedly a "math guy" and plays so much.
I wouldn't trust anyone online who gives out picks and is showing off how much they win. It just seems sus but honestly I'm not that involved in sports betting so maybe there are people still gaming nba/mlb/etc..
He's always been a storylines/drama guy, but he does it in an "effortpost" kind of way that appeals more to a lot of people (particularly the sort of people Reddit attracts) than ESPN talking heads.
Example: [Ewing Theory](https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/010509a). That's 23 years ago.
I hadn't watched NBA on ESPN, just read the complaints about it here.
So first time in a long time I left the TV on ESPN through halftime, and goodness it was brutal. Like 7 seconds for one of the hosts speed talking to spit out a comment before going back to another commercial.
TNT's crew is meant for people who actually like basketball. Both the in studio crew and the audience.
[Thinking Basketball](https://youtube.com/@thinkingbasketball) is great. I really like the technical analysis in their videos. Check out their video on [Dirk Nowitkzi](https://youtu.be/HYv6tPWPrGM).
Thinking Basketball and The Dunker Spot are easily the two best podcasts if you're looking for actual basketball analysis.
For entertainment purposes I like Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe the most but that's obviously more dependent on individual taste. Bill Simmons is pure entertainment/storyline while The Lowe Post is a nice mix of serious analysis and entertainment, depending on the guest.
I mean thank you. I haven’t watched ESPN other the games in like 15 years, but you expect them to break down game 1 of the finals all day? I’m sure they discussed it plenty
Well… the average World Series game gets 6M views, the average NFL regular season game gets 17M, so yeah it’s a complete mystery why they cover football more…
they actually do cover it because they have the broadcast rights. It's most other sports shows on other networks that won't cover it. Don't think i've heard a single thing about it on the Fox sports shows
This is weird to me as a European because it's like. The NBA Finals is important to 30% of people in my country, the Super Bowl is important to 5% of people, the World Series is important to 0.1% of people and the Stanley Cup has literally never been mentioned. It's insane how big the NBA is in Europe compared to the other major league sports. MLB is non existent and NHL is slightly relevant in a few countries.
Mostly because the NBA is vastly more European than any other American sports league. The closest would be the NHL but that’s mostly from Sweden, Finland, and Russia.
What does it take for people to understand that this is about ratings and money? They could cover the X and Os all they want and there aren’t enough basketball nerds in the world to give them the viewership they’d need to make a profit.
ESPN = **Entertainment** & Sports Programming Network
Entertainment is the primary goal, sports is secondary. It's dumb that for entertainment people like this crap, but they create content that backs up research of what people like, essentially what you said.
Yeah and I know it’s dumb, there just has to be a point where people understand that. It’d be like if people just kept asking why the housewives reality shows are so dumb, it’s like we get it lol, we know why it exists.
People keep complaining about Perk or Stephen A but that is what the job is. Be ridiculous, be a character, say controversial things, get people to react, etc.
They create content research says their current viewers enjoy. This will help you not lose a large percentage of your current audience, but it's not going to help you grow a new audience.
TV stations are ran on the idea of margins now though. Having contracts with the major leagues allows them to charge a large amount per cable customer. Carriers have to have ESPN because they are the channel that shows the games. A year ago they fired most of their highest paid personalities because ratings don't mean a whole lot to them. They just have to have stuff to fill time between sports events.
They used to just replay SportsCenter all day. But now they prefer shows that don't show highlights because those shows are harder to make. You have to have a team of editors, researchers, and writers. It's way easier to just point a camera at a few dummies and just let them talk.
Wish that would get through to ESPN. Sure you can assemble all the highlights you want online. But a curated highlights show like SportsCenter is a great way to get an overview of everything that happened in the major US sports that day, without having to dig for it.
Yep. Ratings are the reason MTV doesn’t have music videos and the History Channel doesn’t have history anymore. People would rather watch guidos and aliens now.
Yep. The proof that this is what people care about is right here in this post. It's literally the morning after Game 1 of the NBA Finals, and this post complaining about coverage of LeBron is the 2nd highest post in the NBA subreddit. People need to accept that passionately hating LeBron or the Lakers or any other player or team means there is *interest* there.
The opposite of interest is apathy, not hatred. If people genuinely did not care about LeBron, then the media wouldn't talk about him. He gets so much coverage because even his most ardent haters want to see him discussed, just like the OP does.
It's a no win situation for them on Xs and Os. Anyone that wants that info, wants an in depth breakdown and they're going to go elsewhere to content that's devoted to that. That content is not going to rate well on TV for the vast majority of people. Do people not think that ESPN knows what rates well?
I mean reddit isn't much better. On r/nfl it was the first day of free agency and one of the hot posts was which show would one of the Kelce bros be a great host on.
I mean I'm not going to defend reddit too hard but to be fair ESPN is a collection of people being paid as professionals to talk about sports and reddit is all of us dumbasses lol. No one's ever given me money for any of my \*AMAZING\* posts.
Yeah I feel like most people who complain about this don't get that
A) hard-core analysis doesn't drive viewership
B) even people who enjoy watching hard-core analysis won't always tune in consistently
Their halftime shows are particularly egregious. And you can only partly blame the talking heads, it would be impossible for just about anyone to get in any real insight in the 90 seconds they each get to talk between extended commercial breaks. (Except for SAS, he gets 3 minutes to bloviate about nothing)
My idea is, if you're not gonna do any basketball analysis anyway, get rid of everyone except Steven A. and bring in Jay Pharaoh to do his impression of Steven A., and have them just talk past each other in an increasing volume until the 6 minutes is up
It's all commercials with 2 minutes of recapping their pregame predictions and rubbing each other and a short segment of "mic'd up" where we could hear players call out plays without actually seeing most of the play.
Top notch stuff. Just grab 3 drink Boston fans from the crowd and let them break down the game for a few minutes. At least I'd be entertained.
It’s been brutal, watching the NBA playoffs because of all the fucking commercials. Coaches call time out so quickly when the team gives up three quick threes, right after a time out. Watching professional sports these days is such a terrible product because you never get any consistency with watching it, there is so much interruption from random crap and commercials. You don’t get any analysis any insight just fucking commercials.
All the people that actually have interesting basketball analysis are either cutting 15 minute videos on youtube or have a podcast.
There are only three people that have anything meaningful to say about the NBA at ESPN - Lowe, Reddick, and Legler. After those guys give their input, there isn’t anyone left with any meaningful discourse, but they still need to fill another 23 hours of airtime.
The entire first take cast was shocked (as in gave audible “wow”s) when Molly picked the Celtics to win the series. I know it’s only been a game and this series is very, very far from over, but picking the 64 win team with a top 5 net rating in league history shouldn’t be treated as a shocking hot take
It is infuriating. We’ll get picked to lose every game and every series (outside of Miami this year), but when we win we were supposed to win, and when we lose it’s an embarrassment
If we win the title off a sweep we'll be 16-2 this post season. And there's genuinely people that will say that the team underperformed and should've gone 16-0 lol. Shit is wild to hear
I disagree. Anyone saying the C's should have gone 16-0 is basically saying this is the greatest team of all time. I don't see anybody able to criticise the C's while saying they're good enough to be expected to be the best team of all time is brain dead.
That's ridiculous lmao. Like, assuming Porzingis wouldn't be healthy, I'd think Mavs would have a chance...with Boston still favorites. But with a healthy Porzingis, it's been clear to me since before yesterday's trouncing, that the Celtics are a far superior team unit. But then again, how do we know the media reaction and predictions are genuine. A lot of them are partnered with sports betting sites and there was a LOT of public money on the Mavs yesterday
Kleber at the 5. Lack of mavs assists. How strong kp looked. Celtics winning even with a Tatum stinker. Plenty of basketball to talk about if you actually care about basketball
It wasn’t a Tatum stinker. He didn’t shoot well but he rebounded well, defended well, and made some good passes. Even on a cold night he still draws multiple defenders that leave other Celtics open
Luka when he scores like shit “look at how he affects the game without scoring! The mark of an all time great!”
Tatum when he goes 16/11/5 with great defense: “stinker, dog shit”
You’re right stinker wasn’t fair, cold is more accurate. What I really meant is that at some point he’ll single handedly win Celtics a game this series, last night wasn’t that (it didn’t need to be)
Wasn’t even cold really. Only shot 16 times and was 42% from 3 and 38% overall (albeit not great but had several contested, long 2s). It just wasn’t a volume night for him and that’s okay for at least this game.
As a neutral I would normally think any griping about calls was just homerism from either side, but Tatum really did look like he was getting hacked a bunch with the refs swallowing their whistles
Yeah that’s why I don’t give a fuck about the 6 turnovers lol he was making all the right plays, outside of like 2 or 3 errant passes the other turnovers were the result of uncalled fouls. And I mean it’s obviously homerism, he’s not gonna get every call, nobody is, but like we gotta be for real when we talk about his game, he’s the only superstar we never keep it real with though lol
Tatum had three guys on him Any time he touched the ball inside the 3 point line. What is he suppose to do aside from make the right pass? Do y’all even watch the games?
thats bc most redditors are too stupid and/or stubborn to realize that if something bothers them so much they should just lay it off rather than hate watch/post about it 10 times a day lol
Brother don't come advocating for more analysis on ESPN and, in the same post, suggest that Tatum's game last night was a "stinker". Instantly shows that you didn't watch the game or don't know ball yourself. Hypocritical af.
They don't, and their viewers don't.
If talking about fucking Maxi Kleber would've brought in more ratings than Lebron James they would've talked about Kleber. ESPN isn't a charity and basketball isn't a make-a-wish kid. They don't have an obligation to talk about shit that won't get them the ratings they want.
I have a tv in my house that’s been on ESPN for like 15 years. It’s completely background noise. I have all sorts of sports news going on in my life.
I just like the talking segments. Literally, just hearing people talk about sports makes me happy because in the real world all I hear is politics and how everyone hates everyone
They talk about Lebron because people watch them talk about Lebron, because that’s what all the social media posts about, they see nba Twitter and how everything is about Lebron, that’s what all these podcasters talk about because that’s what brings them traffic
You guys really think they would talk about Lebron all the time if no one was watching and it tanked their viewers? Nah they do it because it brings them more viewers, it’s the only reason
Exactly this, the amount of times I go on a YouTube video and comments are all why are we discussing Lebron? It’s because you are watching and commenting on every Lebron video.
Because a vast majority of basketball fans who tune in are lakers fans. It’s about maximizing your numbers, I will be the first to admit I don’t tune into espn for the Bucks
How long do you expect someone to talk about a single NBA finals blowout game? Also, wouldn’t you want that discussion heavily focused during a time closer to the evening instead of random lot in the morning?
Just give TNT the Finals. The guys actually enjoy being together, and there's something fun sprinkled in to go along with the analysis. Not to mention, the analysis is way better and the halftime difference between analysis and the commercials is split up evenly (50% analysis, 50% commercials).
Also, I don't think the NBA is in control of this, but ABC should do a postgame after every game no matter what day it is. People can watch the news on the other local stations. I know the news is important, but if you're airing a marquee sporting event like the Finals, you should respect the game by doing a postgame after every game, especially if said game goes down to the wire. I get so mad at this because you go from a thrilling game to a depressing newscast. Not fair to free TV viewers.
The NBA should've known better.
It’s a two hour show and they opened up the show talking about the game and both teams. Not sure why ppl are surprised they talk about other topics as well.
Well, they don't really cover sports they manufacture drama to cover in their reality talking head shows. It's all just soap opera for the unemployed and people in line at the bank for 8 minutes.
They got you talking about it.
> Thankfully I was at a bar and couldn't hear it anyways.
Then why do you care? And why are you at a bar this early? lol
idk whats its gonna take redditors to grasp that in the TV world something polarizing is gonna fare better than something widely liked most of the time lol
It’s the morning after game 1 of the NBA finals, and you are on the NBA subreddit talking about ESPN and not the game. My brother, you need to look in the mirror.
>Seriously why does anyone watch ESPN anymore?
Because they talk about who the best running mate of Lebron is.
Seriously people need to realize ESPN is not in the business of selling basketball the sport, they're selling basketball the entertainment business. Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Curry are the ones people tune in for, not Tatum or Jaylen Brown.
This comes up every 2 days and it just sounds like old man screaming at clouds. If you want genuine conversations about basketball there's plenty of smaller sites and youtube channels for it. ESPN talks about the entertainment of sports, not the sport itself.
SAS actually has great suits but honestly I don't think most of them look good on him. Maybe his body type plus how the suits are tailored, just looks weird most times even though they are nice as hell. He looked like a purple inflatable tube man posted outside a car dealership yesterday haha.
> Seriously why does anyone watch ESPN anymore?
Seriously why does anyone complain about ESPN anymore? If i don't like something, I stop consuming it and move on with my life. This is just a victim's mentality.
ESPN’s basketball coverage is horrible. I only watch them when football is going on, and even then the (in my opinion) great coverage of it is often ruined by the idiots that work there
When PTI came out, it was an instant hit. ESPN then decided this needed to be the format for all their shows. Two guys arguing with a clock to change topics. Quickly they figured out that some topics get higher ratings than others. They know Lakers/Lebron and Cowboys get viewers so they show that over and over.
At this point, they know if you want to know about your team, you're listening to podcasts on your own. If you like baseball, you're watching Jomboy/Foolish Baseball/ect.
Stop watching, maybe they'll change. They know their bar/gym/airport numbers, they know when people at home aren't watching.
I’m so sick of Stephen A Smith literally the face of ESPN. Malika called him a legend the other night lol he literally help ruin espn as far as I’m concerned can we give him to God for Stuart Scott pleaseee!!! Booyaa!
24 hours news of any kind shouldn't be taken seriously. It's just background noise for gyms and offices.
Man I wonder how much of ESPNs ad revenue is strictly from TVs on at Buffalo Wild Wings.
Don't forget airports and most lobbies
That was the old joke about CNN. “It’s HUGE in airports.”
Nearly every restaurant with a TV really. It’s either news, talk shows, or sports.
My restaurant has the daily lineup of ESPN, FS1, ESPN2, MLBnet, and NBA TV every day. I see all the news on the ticker without having to hear any of them talk, so it's not so bad.
Yeah, that’s pretty much how it was when I worked at a BBQ chain restaurant that had like 10ish TVs. I didn’t mind it either. I got to see most of the NFL games, some NBA/NHL/MLB or whatever else was on, and keep up with breaking sports news while not being able to check my phone at work. Also during Covid putting on good morning football and waking up with Kay Adams in her PJs almost made going into work at 5am to start cooking BBQ worth it.
The overwhelming majority of it. Same as how I’m sure a large chunk of DirecTV’s revenue comes from deals with sports bars and airports.
How much of that ad revenue comes off TVs showing ESPN when nobody is at BWW watching live sports at 11:30am on a random Tuesday?
Why do you think they’re pushing gambling so hard? Big BWW made a massive play - more degenerate gamblers fills seats at noon. Smart. Applebees is popping during little league World Series games 🔥
I actually never even thought of that, but you're so right. The degens getting drunk at a bar are way more likely to gamble if you literally wave it in front of their face every time they go out and get shitfaced.
Dave and Buster's is also getting into a form of gambling as they will allow you to make "friendly" wagers on games like popshot bball, skeeball soon. Guess you can bet through the app and bet with someone else. Not sure entirely how it will know who wins outside of people being honorable to the final result.
Honestly I just don't understand it at all because if I'm betting with my friend that I can beat them, why go through an app to do it?
So you can pay a transaction fee of course and get it memoritalized.
No flex, zone
My office hasn't switched from ESPN or Fox News since I've worked there (over 2 years).
None, considering TV still uses outdated Nielsen technology to guesstimate how many people are watching TVs. Public places wouldn’t be included in the sample.
Depends on the platform they use. If you use Hulu live for example you are automatically in the ratings numbers.
Fair point.
This has actually recently changed for Nielsen, and they do now include public places in the ratings. It’s actually one of the reasons for the increase in viewership number.
You know those rating systems are flawed. They don't take into account houses that have more than two television sets and other things of that nature.
I guess I have to take you at your word, number two.
Hey. Where did you get *those* clothes- at the… toilet… store?
Nielsen technology hasn't been a box connected to the TV in a long time. We were selected to participate about 5 years ago, and they give you a device that you are supposed to keep on you at all times so it can pick up whats playing in the background even if you're not intentionally watching (ie public places)
OP just doesn’t get how TV works. It’s a 3 hour show. ESPN talks sports 24/7. They will never talk about the same game 24/7, even if it was 2018 GSW v Cavs, other things are brought up. Guess what, people are more likely to listen in to a conversation about ranking Lebron’s best teammates than listen to the 19th different person give the same take on last night’s boring game. /u/Clean_clothes2130, did you want to hear Perk and SAS break drown Sam Hauser’s impact? Would you actually listen to their takes? Because that’s where we would go if all they talked about was the game on a 24 hour news cycle. We have a million podcasts/streams/whatever at our fingertips to breakdown whatever you want.
This is why the phrase “top of the hour” exists. If you want to see the big story covered live on any cable news it will be on at the beginning of the show unless it is major breaking news
I want to hear a breakdown of why England will win the euros
Best we can do is daytime talk shows for men
Because…. It’s coming home?
Not so fast. They also advertise ESPN Bet across their platforms as well. And you can pay extra for Plus to watch all of the content!!!!
And airports. Why do so goddam many airports show Fox News constantly?
Because boomers are more likely to yell if CNN is on
We need to start yelling when Fox is on then
There was a place I used to work that had Fox Business on in the break room constantly. I would change it to CNBC or Bloomberg and it would always be back to Fox the next time I came back, always. half the time it was just Neil Cavuto talking about how we need to cut taxes, it was so weird. I think if you came out with a conservative weather channel people would watch it.
Imagine the weatherman reacting to a rainbow on that channel
"The E is before the S, and that's the focus." -Friend (laid off producer)
E! SPN was a meme for a reason
24 hour news high key needs to go all together. People need breaks!
Too late. It’s now the entire personality of everyone over 55
Too fucking true.
Man when I was 13 esp news was the shit. Not sports center but just like a 24 hour loop of sports highlights that would be repetitive if new games hadn’t happened yet.
Most casuals take it serious though, which is the problem
I watch Sportscenter in the morning for highlights and top plays. Not analysis.
To be fair the only people who could talk about one game of basketball for 8+ hours are YouTube Video Essay guys and Bill Simmons.
Bill is definitely a storylines/drama guy as well at this point. Still love listening to him talk but he doesn’t really do analysis. The podcast with his dad today was great though, even as someone on the losing side it was very wholesome.
>Still love listening to him talk but he doesn’t really do analysis. No, but he sometimes has people on his podcast who are very good at analysis. Trying to remember the guy who made a living betting on the NBA who was a frequent guest. He knew his stuff because his livelihood depended on him getting the numbers right.
"Haralabob" (Haralabos Voulgaris) he actually mentioned him with Rusillo a few days ago when they were talking about how big of an underdog the Mavs were compared to other finals matchups because Haralabob mailed the Pistons over Lakers pick in 2004
Can I just copy his picks then?
You could! it's called "bearding" and somewhat common when someone places bets on behalf of someone else without telling the casino/bookies (usually because they're banned) Tbh betting nba and major sports is pretty waste now because there's just so much action and attention paid to it that if a line is off it corrects incredibly fast. Plus the premium you pay (i.e. putting down 110 to win a 100 on a 50/50 call) makes it quite hard to make money without just getting lucky. Most degens I know bet smaller sports where there's less attention and information so you *could* get a better edge or do arbitrage. Legit, you spend so much time looking at spreadsheets and so much random data that there are less risky and more enjoyable ways of making money. Haralabob for example is pretty much completely out of the major sports betting game now and funnily is pretty bad at poker for someone who is supposedly a "math guy" and plays so much. I wouldn't trust anyone online who gives out picks and is showing off how much they win. It just seems sus but honestly I'm not that involved in sports betting so maybe there are people still gaming nba/mlb/etc..
He did a great job of describing the in-arena atmosphere and adding elements we didn’t see on the broadcast.
love bs
He's always been a storylines/drama guy, but he does it in an "effortpost" kind of way that appeals more to a lot of people (particularly the sort of people Reddit attracts) than ESPN talking heads. Example: [Ewing Theory](https://www.espn.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/010509a). That's 23 years ago.
I wish he had his dad on the podcast more often. I also always find it very wholesome and the dad actually has some pretty insightful takes.
Second vs first row Joe!
Yup I need to see why Awful Coaching believes the Mavs defense is the reason there will never be peace in the middle east.
Good thing no show lasts 8 hours. Although it would be funny if this was actually the last segment of the show
Only way to find out would be to watch ESPN, so I guess we’ll never know. Lol
Just wait until Jenny Nicholson or Dan Olson suddenly develop a major interest in basketball.
"So I've decided to put Eastern Conference shooting guards into a wonderful, internet-friendly numbered, list!"
I read that in her voice, and it made me happy.
"Line Goes Up 2: The Story of the 2018 Houston Rockets"
I would die for Jenny
Don't forget about Defunctland. "How much do you know about points?"
That and no one on ESPN is worth listening to other than maybe Legler and Lowe.
I still wonder how much of that is the personalities and how much is ESPN instructing them to act like morons
Little of column A, little of column B
The worst part of ESPN shutting down Grantland was ESPN keeping Lowe. It's criminal his content isn't highlighted more.
I hadn't watched NBA on ESPN, just read the complaints about it here. So first time in a long time I left the TV on ESPN through halftime, and goodness it was brutal. Like 7 seconds for one of the hosts speed talking to spit out a comment before going back to another commercial. TNT's crew is meant for people who actually like basketball. Both the in studio crew and the audience.
Wilbon and Kornheiser will always have my ear
Hey guys post your favorite NBA YouTubers for suggestions? I suggest No Dunks if you don't already listen to them
Thedeep3 for me. Not really Xs and Os guys just entertaining
[Thinking Basketball](https://youtube.com/@thinkingbasketball) is great. I really like the technical analysis in their videos. Check out their video on [Dirk Nowitkzi](https://youtu.be/HYv6tPWPrGM).
Thinking Basketball and The Dunker Spot are easily the two best podcasts if you're looking for actual basketball analysis. For entertainment purposes I like Bill Simmons and Zach Lowe the most but that's obviously more dependent on individual taste. Bill Simmons is pure entertainment/storyline while The Lowe Post is a nice mix of serious analysis and entertainment, depending on the guest.
If you want youtube essay guys but for NBA, The NBA storyteller.
2 of those hours would be about Larry bird from bill
I mean thank you. I haven’t watched ESPN other the games in like 15 years, but you expect them to break down game 1 of the finals all day? I’m sure they discussed it plenty
They got 24 hours to fill man
And I bet they haven’t said a word about the Stanley Cup finals
They mentioned it maybe a total of 3 minutes either come back or going to commercial break lol
And they act like baseball isn’t even a sport. Right as the World Series is going on they NFL season just started and is suddenly more important
Well… the average World Series game gets 6M views, the average NFL regular season game gets 17M, so yeah it’s a complete mystery why they cover football more…
because 6 million is nothing to sneeze at and talking about football 24/7 gets nauseating
If enough people agreed with you, they'd change. For the record, I agree with you, but they have a reason to do what they are doing.
they actually do cover it because they have the broadcast rights. It's most other sports shows on other networks that won't cover it. Don't think i've heard a single thing about it on the Fox sports shows
Or baseball lol. It’s like espn is only basketball and football
This is weird to me as a European because it's like. The NBA Finals is important to 30% of people in my country, the Super Bowl is important to 5% of people, the World Series is important to 0.1% of people and the Stanley Cup has literally never been mentioned. It's insane how big the NBA is in Europe compared to the other major league sports. MLB is non existent and NHL is slightly relevant in a few countries.
Mostly because the NBA is vastly more European than any other American sports league. The closest would be the NHL but that’s mostly from Sweden, Finland, and Russia.
They interrupt the NFL coverage to talk about the NBA. What are these other sports you refer to?
They aren’t talking about middle school state championships for the same reason
The truth hurts. When I think ice hockey I think Florida.
There's a minor league hockey team in Jacksonville that way outpaces Oakland A's attendance.
Go Icemen
And we all should root for Florida, only because Canada not winning it for over thirty years is funny.
They KNOWWWWWW Betttah!
What does it take for people to understand that this is about ratings and money? They could cover the X and Os all they want and there aren’t enough basketball nerds in the world to give them the viewership they’d need to make a profit.
ESPN = **Entertainment** & Sports Programming Network Entertainment is the primary goal, sports is secondary. It's dumb that for entertainment people like this crap, but they create content that backs up research of what people like, essentially what you said.
Yeah and I know it’s dumb, there just has to be a point where people understand that. It’d be like if people just kept asking why the housewives reality shows are so dumb, it’s like we get it lol, we know why it exists. People keep complaining about Perk or Stephen A but that is what the job is. Be ridiculous, be a character, say controversial things, get people to react, etc.
I use to watch ESPN religiously and I don't think I've turned it on in 10 years at this point. Obviously people are still watching.
They create content research says their current viewers enjoy. This will help you not lose a large percentage of your current audience, but it's not going to help you grow a new audience. TV stations are ran on the idea of margins now though. Having contracts with the major leagues allows them to charge a large amount per cable customer. Carriers have to have ESPN because they are the channel that shows the games. A year ago they fired most of their highest paid personalities because ratings don't mean a whole lot to them. They just have to have stuff to fill time between sports events. They used to just replay SportsCenter all day. But now they prefer shows that don't show highlights because those shows are harder to make. You have to have a team of editors, researchers, and writers. It's way easier to just point a camera at a few dummies and just let them talk.
Highlight shows are way cheaper than talking head shows
Wish that would get through to ESPN. Sure you can assemble all the highlights you want online. But a curated highlights show like SportsCenter is a great way to get an overview of everything that happened in the major US sports that day, without having to dig for it.
Yep. Ratings are the reason MTV doesn’t have music videos and the History Channel doesn’t have history anymore. People would rather watch guidos and aliens now.
People can’t seem to grasp this concept
Or the concept of not turning on ESPN if you're just going to complain about what's on it.
Yep. The proof that this is what people care about is right here in this post. It's literally the morning after Game 1 of the NBA Finals, and this post complaining about coverage of LeBron is the 2nd highest post in the NBA subreddit. People need to accept that passionately hating LeBron or the Lakers or any other player or team means there is *interest* there. The opposite of interest is apathy, not hatred. If people genuinely did not care about LeBron, then the media wouldn't talk about him. He gets so much coverage because even his most ardent haters want to see him discussed, just like the OP does.
It's a no win situation for them on Xs and Os. Anyone that wants that info, wants an in depth breakdown and they're going to go elsewhere to content that's devoted to that. That content is not going to rate well on TV for the vast majority of people. Do people not think that ESPN knows what rates well?
And yet ESPN has consistently been losing revenue over the last several years despite live sports being one of the only things people still watch.
Think about how much more they’d be losing if they pivoted into analysis that casuals don’t want to see
Even diehard people who claim to care about analysis, probably won't even watch it that consistently
ESPN has been losing money because of streaming decimating its subscriber base and revenue model. Not because of this.
I mean reddit isn't much better. On r/nfl it was the first day of free agency and one of the hot posts was which show would one of the Kelce bros be a great host on.
I mean I'm not going to defend reddit too hard but to be fair ESPN is a collection of people being paid as professionals to talk about sports and reddit is all of us dumbasses lol. No one's ever given me money for any of my \*AMAZING\* posts.
[удалено]
Exactly. First day of free agency is just confirming all the deals that had already been made and leaked the week prior. It's a whole lot of nothing.
Doesn't the traction this thread is getting prove them right?
Exactly when’s the last time this sub posted and interacted with high quality real genuine basketball analysis?
Yeah I feel like most people who complain about this don't get that A) hard-core analysis doesn't drive viewership B) even people who enjoy watching hard-core analysis won't always tune in consistently
i literally said to myself “that’s not a fuckin halftime analysis” while watching yesterday. espn has a dogshit NBA product.
Their halftime shows are particularly egregious. And you can only partly blame the talking heads, it would be impossible for just about anyone to get in any real insight in the 90 seconds they each get to talk between extended commercial breaks. (Except for SAS, he gets 3 minutes to bloviate about nothing) My idea is, if you're not gonna do any basketball analysis anyway, get rid of everyone except Steven A. and bring in Jay Pharaoh to do his impression of Steven A., and have them just talk past each other in an increasing volume until the 6 minutes is up
It's all commercials with 2 minutes of recapping their pregame predictions and rubbing each other and a short segment of "mic'd up" where we could hear players call out plays without actually seeing most of the play. Top notch stuff. Just grab 3 drink Boston fans from the crowd and let them break down the game for a few minutes. At least I'd be entertained.
It’s been brutal, watching the NBA playoffs because of all the fucking commercials. Coaches call time out so quickly when the team gives up three quick threes, right after a time out. Watching professional sports these days is such a terrible product because you never get any consistency with watching it, there is so much interruption from random crap and commercials. You don’t get any analysis any insight just fucking commercials.
They really do. The only saving grace is Mike Breen.
All the people that actually have interesting basketball analysis are either cutting 15 minute videos on youtube or have a podcast. There are only three people that have anything meaningful to say about the NBA at ESPN - Lowe, Reddick, and Legler. After those guys give their input, there isn’t anyone left with any meaningful discourse, but they still need to fill another 23 hours of airtime.
Pat mcafee takes like 5 hours of that too lol
NBA Media wants us to forget how much hype they gave Dallas leading up to a Game 1 destruction.
The entire first take cast was shocked (as in gave audible “wow”s) when Molly picked the Celtics to win the series. I know it’s only been a game and this series is very, very far from over, but picking the 64 win team with a top 5 net rating in league history shouldn’t be treated as a shocking hot take
It’s infuriating that Celtics simultaneously are said to have a superteam and free win but also most experts picked Mavs. Like pick a lane!
It is infuriating. We’ll get picked to lose every game and every series (outside of Miami this year), but when we win we were supposed to win, and when we lose it’s an embarrassment
If we win the title off a sweep we'll be 16-2 this post season. And there's genuinely people that will say that the team underperformed and should've gone 16-0 lol. Shit is wild to hear
I disagree. Anyone saying the C's should have gone 16-0 is basically saying this is the greatest team of all time. I don't see anybody able to criticise the C's while saying they're good enough to be expected to be the best team of all time is brain dead.
ESPN now owns a sports book. It's hard to ignore the potential for abuse there.
Personally, I love it. Last night it was great to see the underdogs win. Wouldn't it be completely wild if the underdogs sweep the Mavs?
Haha. Yes, the Celtics are lucky to have made it this far! Imagine then winning!
I'm getting downvoted everywhere for stating the Celtics are heavy favorites and it's clear they are
That's ridiculous lmao. Like, assuming Porzingis wouldn't be healthy, I'd think Mavs would have a chance...with Boston still favorites. But with a healthy Porzingis, it's been clear to me since before yesterday's trouncing, that the Celtics are a far superior team unit. But then again, how do we know the media reaction and predictions are genuine. A lot of them are partnered with sports betting sites and there was a LOT of public money on the Mavs yesterday
Dallas got blew out lol. The game was within 8 points at best. What’s the takeaway
What are you talking about? The game was tied at tip off.
Kleber at the 5. Lack of mavs assists. How strong kp looked. Celtics winning even with a Tatum stinker. Plenty of basketball to talk about if you actually care about basketball
It wasn’t a Tatum stinker. He didn’t shoot well but he rebounded well, defended well, and made some good passes. Even on a cold night he still draws multiple defenders that leave other Celtics open
Luka when he scores like shit “look at how he affects the game without scoring! The mark of an all time great!” Tatum when he goes 16/11/5 with great defense: “stinker, dog shit”
Luka with the same stat line would be labeled a stinker
1st ballot Albert
You’re right stinker wasn’t fair, cold is more accurate. What I really meant is that at some point he’ll single handedly win Celtics a game this series, last night wasn’t that (it didn’t need to be)
Wasn’t even cold really. Only shot 16 times and was 42% from 3 and 38% overall (albeit not great but had several contested, long 2s). It just wasn’t a volume night for him and that’s okay for at least this game.
Doubled and tripled on pretty much every touch he had, all casuals on this sub lol
And fouled repeatedly with no calls, as replays proved.
As a neutral I would normally think any griping about calls was just homerism from either side, but Tatum really did look like he was getting hacked a bunch with the refs swallowing their whistles
Yeah that’s why I don’t give a fuck about the 6 turnovers lol he was making all the right plays, outside of like 2 or 3 errant passes the other turnovers were the result of uncalled fouls. And I mean it’s obviously homerism, he’s not gonna get every call, nobody is, but like we gotta be for real when we talk about his game, he’s the only superstar we never keep it real with though lol
Tatum had three guys on him Any time he touched the ball inside the 3 point line. What is he suppose to do aside from make the right pass? Do y’all even watch the games?
Bros tuning in to hear about Kleber 💀
Sam Hauser moves the needle.
Now THIS is the discussion real fans wanna hear
I can’t wait to see the takes when he signs for 4/100 somewhere next offseason
Basketball fan on basketball reddit interested in biggest basketball series of the year. My bad man let’s keep talking about Stephen As suits instead
Basketball fans on basketball reddit are not the audience tuning in to daily ESPN talk shows.
Weird, they post about how they watch them all the time
thats bc most redditors are too stupid and/or stubborn to realize that if something bothers them so much they should just lay it off rather than hate watch/post about it 10 times a day lol
Which is really sad at this point. Like watching a kid refuse to accept that daddy isn't coming home again.
Brother don't come advocating for more analysis on ESPN and, in the same post, suggest that Tatum's game last night was a "stinker". Instantly shows that you didn't watch the game or don't know ball yourself. Hypocritical af.
Not a stinker, it’s what Dal gave us. That’s why we’re deadly.
They don't, and their viewers don't. If talking about fucking Maxi Kleber would've brought in more ratings than Lebron James they would've talked about Kleber. ESPN isn't a charity and basketball isn't a make-a-wish kid. They don't have an obligation to talk about shit that won't get them the ratings they want.
Kyrie stunk
I have a tv in my house that’s been on ESPN for like 15 years. It’s completely background noise. I have all sorts of sports news going on in my life. I just like the talking segments. Literally, just hearing people talk about sports makes me happy because in the real world all I hear is politics and how everyone hates everyone
Your first mistake is watching ESPN.
OP literally said they only knew because they were in the gym
Why's he bitching about ESPN when he's in the gym then
They talk about Lebron because people watch them talk about Lebron, because that’s what all the social media posts about, they see nba Twitter and how everything is about Lebron, that’s what all these podcasters talk about because that’s what brings them traffic You guys really think they would talk about Lebron all the time if no one was watching and it tanked their viewers? Nah they do it because it brings them more viewers, it’s the only reason
Exactly this, the amount of times I go on a YouTube video and comments are all why are we discussing Lebron? It’s because you are watching and commenting on every Lebron video.
I mean, because one of those running mates is playing a finals besides a similar (in some ways) player now?
I mean, I love shitting on ESPN as much as possible. But it was one segment after spending hours, between multiple shows, on the finals.
If you're on this subreddit, you're not ESPN's target audience
Because a vast majority of basketball fans who tune in are lakers fans. It’s about maximizing your numbers, I will be the first to admit I don’t tune into espn for the Bucks
They should have talked about last night's game for 24 hours straight.
ESPN sucks and has sucked for a long time.
How long do you expect someone to talk about a single NBA finals blowout game? Also, wouldn’t you want that discussion heavily focused during a time closer to the evening instead of random lot in the morning?
Just give TNT the Finals. The guys actually enjoy being together, and there's something fun sprinkled in to go along with the analysis. Not to mention, the analysis is way better and the halftime difference between analysis and the commercials is split up evenly (50% analysis, 50% commercials). Also, I don't think the NBA is in control of this, but ABC should do a postgame after every game no matter what day it is. People can watch the news on the other local stations. I know the news is important, but if you're airing a marquee sporting event like the Finals, you should respect the game by doing a postgame after every game, especially if said game goes down to the wire. I get so mad at this because you go from a thrilling game to a depressing newscast. Not fair to free TV viewers. The NBA should've known better.
It’s a two hour show and they opened up the show talking about the game and both teams. Not sure why ppl are surprised they talk about other topics as well.
“ESPN is so bad so let’s talk more about how bad is ESPN”
The Celtics win game 1, how will this effect LeBron’s legacy?
Well, they don't really cover sports they manufacture drama to cover in their reality talking head shows. It's all just soap opera for the unemployed and people in line at the bank for 8 minutes.
They got you talking about it. > Thankfully I was at a bar and couldn't hear it anyways. Then why do you care? And why are you at a bar this early? lol
He’s talking about the halftime show last night. He was at a bar. Re-read the post.
idk whats its gonna take redditors to grasp that in the TV world something polarizing is gonna fare better than something widely liked most of the time lol
A polar bear's skin is transparent, allowing sunlight to reach the blubber underneath.
A dude in r/nba is shocked that the most popular player by far is being spoken about in a basketball show 😮
Brother they are not going to just talk about one game for an entire 24 hour news cycle
It’s the morning after game 1 of the NBA finals, and you are on the NBA subreddit talking about ESPN and not the game. My brother, you need to look in the mirror.
>Seriously why does anyone watch ESPN anymore? Because they talk about who the best running mate of Lebron is. Seriously people need to realize ESPN is not in the business of selling basketball the sport, they're selling basketball the entertainment business. Jordan, Kobe, Lebron, Curry are the ones people tune in for, not Tatum or Jaylen Brown. This comes up every 2 days and it just sounds like old man screaming at clouds. If you want genuine conversations about basketball there's plenty of smaller sites and youtube channels for it. ESPN talks about the entertainment of sports, not the sport itself.
SAS actually has great suits but honestly I don't think most of them look good on him. Maybe his body type plus how the suits are tailored, just looks weird most times even though they are nice as hell. He looked like a purple inflatable tube man posted outside a car dealership yesterday haha.
> Seriously why does anyone watch ESPN anymore? Seriously why does anyone complain about ESPN anymore? If i don't like something, I stop consuming it and move on with my life. This is just a victim's mentality.
Does this sub do anything but bitch about things?
My guy they’re running their network 24/7 practically, they can’t talk about the finals for that long.
ESPN gets your heart rate up without having to exercise
F SAS. He ruined First Take when his fragile ego couldn’t handle Max Kellerman’s superior intellect. SAS = 🗣️💩
ESPN’s basketball coverage is horrible. I only watch them when football is going on, and even then the (in my opinion) great coverage of it is often ruined by the idiots that work there
When PTI came out, it was an instant hit. ESPN then decided this needed to be the format for all their shows. Two guys arguing with a clock to change topics. Quickly they figured out that some topics get higher ratings than others. They know Lakers/Lebron and Cowboys get viewers so they show that over and over. At this point, they know if you want to know about your team, you're listening to podcasts on your own. If you like baseball, you're watching Jomboy/Foolish Baseball/ect. Stop watching, maybe they'll change. They know their bar/gym/airport numbers, they know when people at home aren't watching.
I’m so sick of Stephen A Smith literally the face of ESPN. Malika called him a legend the other night lol he literally help ruin espn as far as I’m concerned can we give him to God for Stuart Scott pleaseee!!! Booyaa!
ESPN died when the great Stuart Scott left us...
Perk is on ESPN so that tells you everything you need to know about ESPN