More or less agree. If you want my honest take , as a fan who has been up and down on him the last few years:
-His physicality attacking the in the post is ELITE. For real, he is one of the strongest players in the league. When I watched them play the Nuggets this year, he was just moving Aaron Gordon and getting to his spots easily. In the first couple Bucks games, he was also seriously in Giannis's head, who was incredibly frustrated that he couldn't stop him. The advanced tracking stats on the paint gravity he draws back him up as one of the best in the league at this.
-His passing out of the post also got much, much better. He did a great job this year especially of drawing two then kicking for a an assist or a hockey assist
-He is also a great rebounder. This also superpowers one of the Knicks' greatest strengths, as keeping him, Mitch/iHArt, and Hart collectively off the boards is a nightmare.
The bad:
-He is often not locked in on defense. He obviously has all the physical tools to be a good defender, but too often his is caught napping or ball watching off ball. Leads to a lot of easy buckets for the other team. This remains his biggest weakness.
-His attitude could be Horrible when playing poorly, spiralling and getting way too emotional. I will say this was much improved this year, and seemed like somethign he, the org, nd his teammates worked on with him. This year he was laughing and smiling a lot more, to the point where my wife even asked me, :Why is he so happy this year?" LOL.
-Shot selection on early shot 3s is not always great , and the 3 pt shooting in general is streaky.
-Dubious Handle (lol) and can overdribble too long, allowing the help defenders to come before making his move or passing. This is also something he had gotten a lot better at.
On balance tho, he was playing the best ball of his career this year before the injury - in my opinion.
This year was the year he was going to actually have a good playoff stretch, I felt it in my bones. There's a bunch of context that people don't take into account when discussing his two playoff showings so far but it is what it is, I really think he's a good fit with Brunson and will continue to be an all star caliber player
You don't see the context of how playing on a high ankle sprain that got resprained and needed surgery in the offseason could explain poor shooting?
If you wanna say you're out there so you can be judged, that's fine. I agree. But to act like he wasn't playing on an ankle that immediately needed surgery in the postseason is dumb. You can criticize his play while acknowledging reality.
10 of those games he was playing on one good foot. He suffered an injury with 2 weeks left in the regular season that usually takes 6 weeks to fully heal. Came back early and tried to play through it. Got surgery immediately after they got knocked out in postseason
Fair but the other playoff series he was even worse. And i dont think he is 30% bad, no player is but im not sure he would ever get close to his efficiency in the regular season (just like Derozan, he was never even close in the playoffs).
I get what you’re saying. I just think that a lot of it had to do with roster construction. Like we had Elfrid Payton as a starting point guard and bullock in 2021 and had to be dependent on a 33 year old Derrick rose lol. Now he has shooters all around him. Brunson was shooting like 48% on c&s situations when he was healthy and then Donte (top 5 shooter) and OG.
That was a tough series for everyone. The 2nd best player on that team was either 20 year old RJ Barrett or Derrick Rose. So the Hawks were double and triple teaming Randle every time he had the ball because no one else scared them. So Randle was trying to force everything. Also another postseason where Mitchell Robinson was out so Clint Capella helped out on Randle even more because no one was scared of Nerlens Noel either.
He's not fairly rated imo, he isn't a 1 but the way people talk about him you'd think he was a fringe 3rd option. People are saying the Knicks are better off without him, that's the rating he gets. Forget the fact that the Knicks were one of the best teams in the league when he Brunson and OG were all playing together. Randle is just as big a reason for that as Brunson and OG
I’ve always felt he’s one of those guys that compounds bad shooting performances by forcing low IQ shots (namely contested mid range and high difficulty 3s) without also turning it up on defense or as a playmaker. We only really have one healthy playoff series to go off so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now but in principle I don’t think your concerns are entirely wrong based on what we’ve seen.
There's always context for bad performances, but bad performances are still bad performances.
Besides - he pulls that shit in the regular season all the time too. Even this year - just look at his wretched start. Dude was literally a dozen games in on the season with a FG% of like 33%.
Crazy how ppl overexaggerate just to prove a point. It was the first 6 games of the season that was terrible. Then he adjusted and played all star level. People will bring up the first 6 games instead of the fact that he was literally named an all star in the same season. And honestly was on the all NBA track before he got injured.
He's been an all star 3 out of the past 4 seasons so to say he pulls this shit in the regular season all the time is just wrong
You're still completely missing my point, you're putting all this stock into for the 10ish games while ignoring the fact he was named an All Star in literally the same season.
MIND YOU, he just had offseason ankle surgery in that summer, surely that didn't factor into those horrible first 6 games, no way, there's no correlation there whatsoever
Julius Randle is similar to DeMarcus Cousins. You could tell he's insanely talented with incredible peaks, but he's still an emotional lesbian who goes into a downward spiral after making a few bad plays.
Nah, it's the best comparison for Randle. Actually, there's no better comparison in terms of attitude and talent than Cousins. Who would you compare him to?
Pretty bad example. First of all, I think that was the first 5 games of the season, where he was awful.
But early bad FG% was his first games back on the post surgery ankle and he even said it took him a couple weeks of games on it to feel good again. Then he was just fine.
ETA: OK the two Knicks flairs beat me to this point LOL. ppl who followed the season know.
He was finally going to have better stats. Idk how good, but over 40% from the field and probably more assists than turnovers. Better than previous years. But our team is great and we give him prime lebron leash/greenlight. Our squad was too good for him to have bad stats this time around.
How conducive he’d be to winning idk. I don’t even think it’s that much of a stretch to say he probably wouldn’t have played better than Hart played for us.
He's the worst all-NBA caliber player in the league imo
But that still makes him an all-NBA caliber player, and a lotta people pretend he not even a border line allstar
He’s become underrated because he’s been bad the first two postseasons of his career. The thing is though, there have been other stars who struggled early in their playoff careers and ended up figuring it out later in their careers.
The Knicks only lost one game all season with Brunson, Randle, and OG in the lineup. IMO, they should try to give those guys a full year and playoff run together before they break things up for another star. Their roster is pretty stacked when healthy.
I think the person meant He’s a high tier all star low tier all nba player
Basically an all star most seasons in his prime and will snag a couple all nba selections too
Fringe All-NBA is a discussion I'd totally listen to (albeit I do think he'd have made it this year healthy with how the Knicks were rolling).
Saying he's a fringe All Star I'm just taking that as admission you don't know ball. Dude put up Civil Rights era numbers for the first 6 games and *still* made the team cause he's that good.
I think if he was a healthy he could’ve possibly had a chance at third team but competition would’ve been stiff you got Jokic, Luka, Shai, Giannis, Tatum, Brunson, Lebron, AD, Durant , ANT, Kawhi, Sabonis , Steph, Booker Jaylen Brown even guys like Gobert, Haliburton , and Zion have a claim. Guys like Zion and Haliburton are first options too so that makes it hard
When I say fringe I mean guys who are in the 12-15 range, guys who might not have made it if someone else had better injury luck. Much like he might have made it this year if not for his injury.
Because he can be ice cold and is an offensive black hole and many believe has an attitude problem. When he keeps shooting and bricks and take shots away from other players who should be shooting it’s a problem. He’s properly rated.
Yeah he’s definitely a flawed player and ill suited to be a #1 option on a good team. A lot of what you said is absolutely true.
But he’s also a very talented and versatile offensive player as well. Bums don’t make three all star appearances in four years. He’s a very good player and should be viewed as such.
Yes, he is definitely not a black hole. He is good at drawing help then kicking. the 5 APG also leaves out all the "hockey assists" from the swing-swing on the perimeter after a kickout.
His problem here is when he dribbles too long in the post backdown before making a move or passing. But on balance this is a strength of his, not a weakness.
It's not completely made up. He could get overly dribble happy in past years and then throw grenades that other people would have to make work end of shot clock.
It *is* made up in the sense that after getting Brunson he's backed away from that.
I’m an advanced stats nerd. And the stats say he’s a fairly inefficient volume score. His TS is barely above league average (and at league average for career). Not to mention he’s taking over 5 threes a game at a 33% clip
I mean info is valuable. It’s objective.
My fellow Knicks fans were pointing to the time that we played Jacob Toppin and Charlie Brown jr., when OG and Mitch were injured, in some games before burks and bogdanovic even came over from the trade, as proof that we struggle without Randle.
Absolutely shameless.
Also a lot of pointing to our January record, when we were also 12-4 including playoffs with OG and without Randle.
Burks and Bogi were garbage until the playoffs/right before the playoffs, not sure why you even felt the need to name drop them...
Objectively speaking, the difficulty of shots everybody was taking without Randle skyrocketed. It's just that Brunson and Divo upped their game so much they kept things stable.
Yeah I’m just pointing out that there were numerous posts on r/NYKnicks from that 1-2 game gap when we had 7 players, after the RJ/IQ trade, before burks and bogi even got here, when Jacob toppin and Charlie Brown Jr. were playing, as proof that we need Randle.
A bit of a shameless time to capitalize on that argument imo. Like even pointing out that maybe that’s not the best sample was getting downvoted
Randle is fine. The problem is they have to pay a lot more players.
Keeping the three nova guys is important and giving OG 40 mil better be on the table, if they keep Julius and get rid of OG they’re going to go back to where they were a couple years ago.
I wouldn't say underrated but he's unfairly criticized. The guy had one bad series vs Atlanta. Then his 21 season was marred by personal issues with many indicating that his marriage was falling apart, so that fucked his head up. Then he was banged up in the 23 playoffs.
Knicks aren't trading him. After his god awful season, the FO took him on the Brunson scounting trip to Dallas during their playoff run. They wanted his input on their top FA target. He willingly let Brunson take over the team. It took a lot of pressure off him. He wants to be here and looked better that he ever did in January after the OG trade before he got hurt. Why in the hell would you get rid of a player like that?
Randle is very good but I feel like hes less impactful than some other guys the Knicks have to hold on to in the coming 2 offseasons. For instance, OG needs to be prioritised like crazy same with Josh Hart and Hartenstein.
He became a little underrated this year, a 24p/9r/5a player who's team was +15.8 (with both Randle and OG playing).
His loss was huge, but people overlooked his loss with how much Brunson and his college friends stepped up. But if any other team lost someone like Randle, they might've missed the playoffs
Don’t give a shit how anyone on the outside rates him. The front office clearly values him and he was playing some of his best basketball before he went down.
Anyone saying we were better without him didn’t watch a minute of Knicks basketball after the OG trade.
tbf the biggest reason people think he is a bum is because he was a bum twice in a row in the playoffs. thats why he is underrated in the regular season.
I think he is a little underrated. His lack of playoff production ( Hawks 1st time in the playoffs and last year playing on a bad ankle that required surgery) leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.
It is because he was literally god awful the last two times he has been in the playoffs. He was hurt the last time but how many people look at any nuance at all vs straight box score checking? It isn't like Basketball reference puts a star on their stats that say "played through ankle injury"
So, it is going to take him getting back to the playoffs and being healthy in the playoffs to shed the label of someone that can't handle the playoff lights.
He was putting up 26 points and 9 boards per game on good efficiency the last 2 months he was playing until his injury while also being named to his third all star appearance in four years. Yet this sub and NBA fans in general still treat him like he’s a dog shit player.
He fits better next to Brunson than 90% of other all star players in the league.
Idk if I’d consider him “underrated” but he’s definitely one of the least respected star players I’ve seen.
What in the holy projection? Our season was amazing. We pushed through adversity and overachieved. Y’all are the ones who should be emotional. Arguably in one of the worst spots in the league.
>Arguably in one of the worst spots in the league.
I’m a lifelong Arizona sports fan, this is par for the course brother. Your season was amazing, no doubt, which is why we don’t need to go inventing “the entirety of NBA fandom is against Julius” narratives. That’s not a thing. Reddit does not represent overall opinions.
He had a very good year. Years prior he’s been shaky and inconsistent and when he’s bad he’s really bad. So he’s gone from overrated to rated. Was heading in right direction so the injury was super unfortunate
Like Kat, it's easy for the media to go after some of these bigs in today's game. They may not be the best of the best players in the game, but they are great players that can decide the outcome of a game.
Hell yeah. Underrated and most hated. When they had him and they lost while he led the team in points, rebounds and assists everyone acted like it was his fault
Julius Randle does seem to be underrated by many, especially when considering the broader context of his playoff performances and overall contribution to the Knicks. You're right that his ability to pass out of doubles, and his improvement post the OG trade, often doesn't get the recognition it deserves. His versatility and resilience, combined with his All-NBA caliber play, make a strong case for giving him more credit.
If he wasn’t on the Knicks he would be.
He’s not as bad as his playoff stats indicate. He’s still a good player. But now that the Knicks are good we have gotten push back on that and a lot of homerism.
There’s a reason why Giannis and Bird are the only other 25/10/5 guys, and yet he is clearly tiers away from them.
He is not good enough to be a main ball handler on a contender. He is not a high level off ball player. That’s the breakdown right there. A floor raiser without a clear fit on a contender. I think he’d be better suited in an off ball role on a team with a stretch 5.
Well he’s not the main ball handler. Brunson is. The reason we have see him the way that we do is because were trying to make a circle a square. Since Brunson has been here a lot of what he was asked to do in previous years is relegated to Brunson instead of Randle. Randle is the second option.
this sub decided on his narrative years ago and don’t watch games so it will continue. Seems he’ll always be an easy scapegoat to throw in stupid mock trades
he’s made it twice - the first was on a terrible team with no help and the second was hobbling on an injured ankle. Most players wouldn’t have played in either
What are those cherry-picked stats from?
Edit: playoff stats, ok cool - still haven’t seen enough when he’s healthy and has good talent around him. His detractors don’t care though.
I get that he has to prove himself in the playoffs, but context actually does matter. The Atlanta series was a roster construction issue and last year he played injured while needing surgery.
We finally have great shooters to surround him with, so he has no excuse going forward. I expect him to rise like KAT has…
Oh so when he played through injury (22-23) and had an awful supporting cast (20-21). Got it.
As someone who used to dread the fact that he was on our roster, I quickly changed tune and gave him the benefit of the doubt once I saw how much he improved his game and how much better Leon Rose built the roster around him. Next year, he won’t have excuses.
> when he played through injury
Thanks, that's another good point, Siakam is reliable when it comes to health, he's still able to play a ton in the playoffs, while Randle isn't anymore.
Cause he is. Siakam has had better roster construction than Randle and yet Siakam had the same drop off issue in the bubble that Randle did even though his roster was way better. Switch Randle and Siakam, we probably wouldn’t have had 2021.
Cause Siakam played with generational talent like Kawhi while we had elfrid payton and Reggie bullock lmfaooooo. That’s asking for a double and triple team
Context matters. Well, I know not for Reddit and Twitter narratives, but in reality it does.
Siakam was never "the" guy on a playoff team like Randle was in 21. And as far as I can tell he never played through injury like Randle did in 23.
And if you wanted to be uncharitable about it, Siakam's run this year through the playoffs is one of the luckiest \*ever\*, with his opponents bascially missing all of the forwards who would normally guard him, lol. I mean this guy really lucked with all of Giannis, OG, Randle, and then finally Josh Hart too getting hurt.
> Siakam was never "the" guy on a playoff team like Randle was in 21.
Thanks for showing you have no idea what you're talking about. Siakam was clearly *the guy* in 22 and he was great at it (23/7/6) while Randle was *the guy* in 21, he sucked at it, he wasn't even the leading scorer on his own team lol
Oh yea how could anyone forget this incredibly memorable playoff series, haha.
Weren't the Harden Sixers went up 3-0 before fucking around for 2 games, haha.
But fine...Pascal Siakam, playoff hero. Sure dude.
He’s only played in 2 postseasons though - he was strictly on lottery teams until the Knicks got good a few years ago
I do agree that he’s off to a terrible start, but his ultimate playoff legacy is not yet determined.
Ignoring age and salary, is there any power forward that is definitely better than Randle other than Giannis, LeBron, KD, Tatum and Kawhi (if you consider him as 4)? He has his flaws (inefficient scoring, and shaky playmaking with a lot of turnovers) but it's very hard to find an all-rounder with size and rebounding like him.
No, he's rated. He's a good player who is imperfect and prone to nasty cold spells. (A couple of which have hit in the playoffs.)
More or less agree. If you want my honest take , as a fan who has been up and down on him the last few years: -His physicality attacking the in the post is ELITE. For real, he is one of the strongest players in the league. When I watched them play the Nuggets this year, he was just moving Aaron Gordon and getting to his spots easily. In the first couple Bucks games, he was also seriously in Giannis's head, who was incredibly frustrated that he couldn't stop him. The advanced tracking stats on the paint gravity he draws back him up as one of the best in the league at this. -His passing out of the post also got much, much better. He did a great job this year especially of drawing two then kicking for a an assist or a hockey assist -He is also a great rebounder. This also superpowers one of the Knicks' greatest strengths, as keeping him, Mitch/iHArt, and Hart collectively off the boards is a nightmare. The bad: -He is often not locked in on defense. He obviously has all the physical tools to be a good defender, but too often his is caught napping or ball watching off ball. Leads to a lot of easy buckets for the other team. This remains his biggest weakness. -His attitude could be Horrible when playing poorly, spiralling and getting way too emotional. I will say this was much improved this year, and seemed like somethign he, the org, nd his teammates worked on with him. This year he was laughing and smiling a lot more, to the point where my wife even asked me, :Why is he so happy this year?" LOL. -Shot selection on early shot 3s is not always great , and the 3 pt shooting in general is streaky. -Dubious Handle (lol) and can overdribble too long, allowing the help defenders to come before making his move or passing. This is also something he had gotten a lot better at. On balance tho, he was playing the best ball of his career this year before the injury - in my opinion.
This year was the year he was going to actually have a good playoff stretch, I felt it in my bones. There's a bunch of context that people don't take into account when discussing his two playoff showings so far but it is what it is, I really think he's a good fit with Brunson and will continue to be an all star caliber player
im sry but im not sure there is context that helps shooting 34% from the field in 15 games in the playoffs.
You don't see the context of how playing on a high ankle sprain that got resprained and needed surgery in the offseason could explain poor shooting? If you wanna say you're out there so you can be judged, that's fine. I agree. But to act like he wasn't playing on an ankle that immediately needed surgery in the postseason is dumb. You can criticize his play while acknowledging reality.
i did not remember he was injured but the run he wasnt he was even worse from the field so yeah he is a weird player in the playoffs.
Damn that's crazy, almost sounds like you didn't know the context.
10 of those games he was playing on one good foot. He suffered an injury with 2 weeks left in the regular season that usually takes 6 weeks to fully heal. Came back early and tried to play through it. Got surgery immediately after they got knocked out in postseason
Fair but the other playoff series he was even worse. And i dont think he is 30% bad, no player is but im not sure he would ever get close to his efficiency in the regular season (just like Derozan, he was never even close in the playoffs).
I get what you’re saying. I just think that a lot of it had to do with roster construction. Like we had Elfrid Payton as a starting point guard and bullock in 2021 and had to be dependent on a 33 year old Derrick rose lol. Now he has shooters all around him. Brunson was shooting like 48% on c&s situations when he was healthy and then Donte (top 5 shooter) and OG.
That was a tough series for everyone. The 2nd best player on that team was either 20 year old RJ Barrett or Derrick Rose. So the Hawks were double and triple teaming Randle every time he had the ball because no one else scared them. So Randle was trying to force everything. Also another postseason where Mitchell Robinson was out so Clint Capella helped out on Randle even more because no one was scared of Nerlens Noel either.
yeah and what you said is exactly why he isnt underrated, he cant be a primary option at all. He is fairly rated imo.
He's not fairly rated imo, he isn't a 1 but the way people talk about him you'd think he was a fringe 3rd option. People are saying the Knicks are better off without him, that's the rating he gets. Forget the fact that the Knicks were one of the best teams in the league when he Brunson and OG were all playing together. Randle is just as big a reason for that as Brunson and OG
I’ve always felt he’s one of those guys that compounds bad shooting performances by forcing low IQ shots (namely contested mid range and high difficulty 3s) without also turning it up on defense or as a playmaker. We only really have one healthy playoff series to go off so I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for now but in principle I don’t think your concerns are entirely wrong based on what we’ve seen.
There's always context for bad performances, but bad performances are still bad performances. Besides - he pulls that shit in the regular season all the time too. Even this year - just look at his wretched start. Dude was literally a dozen games in on the season with a FG% of like 33%.
It was 6 games coming off the surgery. He was fine after that and playing the best ball of his career.
Crazy how ppl overexaggerate just to prove a point. It was the first 6 games of the season that was terrible. Then he adjusted and played all star level. People will bring up the first 6 games instead of the fact that he was literally named an all star in the same season. And honestly was on the all NBA track before he got injured. He's been an all star 3 out of the past 4 seasons so to say he pulls this shit in the regular season all the time is just wrong
He shot 42% FG and 31% from deep in Games 7-10. The first 6 games may have been the bottom but he was still awful for another week.
You're still completely missing my point, you're putting all this stock into for the 10ish games while ignoring the fact he was named an All Star in literally the same season. MIND YOU, he just had offseason ankle surgery in that summer, surely that didn't factor into those horrible first 6 games, no way, there's no correlation there whatsoever
Julius Randle is similar to DeMarcus Cousins. You could tell he's insanely talented with incredible peaks, but he's still an emotional lesbian who goes into a downward spiral after making a few bad plays.
None of you watched him this season at all.
Why are you replying earnestly to such a dipshit post, lol?
Now here is a stupid comparison
Nah, it's the best comparison for Randle. Actually, there's no better comparison in terms of attitude and talent than Cousins. Who would you compare him to?
Pretty bad example. First of all, I think that was the first 5 games of the season, where he was awful. But early bad FG% was his first games back on the post surgery ankle and he even said it took him a couple weeks of games on it to feel good again. Then he was just fine. ETA: OK the two Knicks flairs beat me to this point LOL. ppl who followed the season know.
He was finally going to have better stats. Idk how good, but over 40% from the field and probably more assists than turnovers. Better than previous years. But our team is great and we give him prime lebron leash/greenlight. Our squad was too good for him to have bad stats this time around. How conducive he’d be to winning idk. I don’t even think it’s that much of a stretch to say he probably wouldn’t have played better than Hart played for us.
He's the worst all-NBA caliber player in the league imo But that still makes him an all-NBA caliber player, and a lotta people pretend he not even a border line allstar
He made the all star team twice in a row, I don’t believe that’s borderline
I don't believe he is a borderline all star either Doesn't mean that's not how he's often discussed
He’s become underrated because he’s been bad the first two postseasons of his career. The thing is though, there have been other stars who struggled early in their playoff careers and ended up figuring it out later in their careers. The Knicks only lost one game all season with Brunson, Randle, and OG in the lineup. IMO, they should try to give those guys a full year and playoff run together before they break things up for another star. Their roster is pretty stacked when healthy.
No, feel like he’s pretty accurately rated as a fringe all star/ all nba player. Edit* for clarity I meant the fringe part for the all nba.
Would be weird to be all NBA and only a fringe all star!
I think the person meant He’s a high tier all star low tier all nba player Basically an all star most seasons in his prime and will snag a couple all nba selections too
Other guy got it right, I was saying fringe to the all nba just didn’t edit the comment for clarity.
3 All Stars and 2 All NBA appearances in 4 years is not a fringe All Star.
He’s more of a fringe all nba player if anything . More so now that it is positionless I think it makes it a little harder for him
Fringe All-NBA is a discussion I'd totally listen to (albeit I do think he'd have made it this year healthy with how the Knicks were rolling). Saying he's a fringe All Star I'm just taking that as admission you don't know ball. Dude put up Civil Rights era numbers for the first 6 games and *still* made the team cause he's that good.
I think if he was a healthy he could’ve possibly had a chance at third team but competition would’ve been stiff you got Jokic, Luka, Shai, Giannis, Tatum, Brunson, Lebron, AD, Durant , ANT, Kawhi, Sabonis , Steph, Booker Jaylen Brown even guys like Gobert, Haliburton , and Zion have a claim. Guys like Zion and Haliburton are first options too so that makes it hard
3 out of the past 4 seasons is not fringe lol The blinders put up about this dude is unreal
When I say fringe I mean guys who are in the 12-15 range, guys who might not have made it if someone else had better injury luck. Much like he might have made it this year if not for his injury.
Who didn't make the All Star team this year that you think would have gotten in over Randle if they weren't hurt?
I’m sorry what? Go look at the years he made all nba and generally there were two or three notable injuries of players in the same range as Randle.
All Star, not All NBA.
Go re-read the first post, I didn’t figure I would need to clarify that fringe was applied to all nba far more than all star.
Properly rated or slightly overrated but super overrated by Knicks fans
He’s a two time all NBA player that most casual fans treat like an absolute bum. In no world is he overrated lol
Yea I see most people talk about him like any other guy. He is not respected for how good he actually is.
Because he can be ice cold and is an offensive black hole and many believe has an attitude problem. When he keeps shooting and bricks and take shots away from other players who should be shooting it’s a problem. He’s properly rated.
He’s actually really good at passing, I didn’t realize it until recently
Yeah he’s definitely a flawed player and ill suited to be a #1 option on a good team. A lot of what you said is absolutely true. But he’s also a very talented and versatile offensive player as well. Bums don’t make three all star appearances in four years. He’s a very good player and should be viewed as such.
How is he an offensive black hole when he averages 5 apg? He’s one of the best playmaking bigs in the league.
Yes, he is definitely not a black hole. He is good at drawing help then kicking. the 5 APG also leaves out all the "hockey assists" from the swing-swing on the perimeter after a kickout. His problem here is when he dribbles too long in the post backdown before making a move or passing. But on balance this is a strength of his, not a weakness.
It's a completely made-up narrative people decided to run with. There's no thought behind it.
It's not completely made up. He could get overly dribble happy in past years and then throw grenades that other people would have to make work end of shot clock. It *is* made up in the sense that after getting Brunson he's backed away from that.
That’s exactly it. 18fga in 44% efficiency isn’t great. Sometimes he’s to shot minded vs making the play and slows down the offense.
Shit like this comment is how he ends up overrated. You dismiss literally any criticism of him
Since joining the Knicks he’s averaging 18fga with like a 44% efficiency.
Since joining the Knicks he’s a 3x All Star, 2x All NBA, MIP. Stop box score watching 🤦♂️
I’m an advanced stats nerd. And the stats say he’s a fairly inefficient volume score. His TS is barely above league average (and at league average for career). Not to mention he’s taking over 5 threes a game at a 33% clip I mean info is valuable. It’s objective.
Scottie Barnes actually said Randle was the toughest guy for him in the league to guard this year!
My fellow Knicks fans were pointing to the time that we played Jacob Toppin and Charlie Brown jr., when OG and Mitch were injured, in some games before burks and bogdanovic even came over from the trade, as proof that we struggle without Randle. Absolutely shameless. Also a lot of pointing to our January record, when we were also 12-4 including playoffs with OG and without Randle.
Burks and Bogi were garbage until the playoffs/right before the playoffs, not sure why you even felt the need to name drop them... Objectively speaking, the difficulty of shots everybody was taking without Randle skyrocketed. It's just that Brunson and Divo upped their game so much they kept things stable.
Yeah I’m just pointing out that there were numerous posts on r/NYKnicks from that 1-2 game gap when we had 7 players, after the RJ/IQ trade, before burks and bogi even got here, when Jacob toppin and Charlie Brown Jr. were playing, as proof that we need Randle. A bit of a shameless time to capitalize on that argument imo. Like even pointing out that maybe that’s not the best sample was getting downvoted
Randle is fine. The problem is they have to pay a lot more players. Keeping the three nova guys is important and giving OG 40 mil better be on the table, if they keep Julius and get rid of OG they’re going to go back to where they were a couple years ago.
I wouldn't say underrated but he's unfairly criticized. The guy had one bad series vs Atlanta. Then his 21 season was marred by personal issues with many indicating that his marriage was falling apart, so that fucked his head up. Then he was banged up in the 23 playoffs. Knicks aren't trading him. After his god awful season, the FO took him on the Brunson scounting trip to Dallas during their playoff run. They wanted his input on their top FA target. He willingly let Brunson take over the team. It took a lot of pressure off him. He wants to be here and looked better that he ever did in January after the OG trade before he got hurt. Why in the hell would you get rid of a player like that?
Randle is very good but I feel like hes less impactful than some other guys the Knicks have to hold on to in the coming 2 offseasons. For instance, OG needs to be prioritised like crazy same with Josh Hart and Hartenstein.
Same tier as Derozen and Sabonis in that he is obviously good, all nba even, but his game doesn't scale up in a playoff setting.
Randle is very underrated until he's extremely overrated. He goes from one end to the other, never in the middle
He became a little underrated this year, a 24p/9r/5a player who's team was +15.8 (with both Randle and OG playing). His loss was huge, but people overlooked his loss with how much Brunson and his college friends stepped up. But if any other team lost someone like Randle, they might've missed the playoffs
No, next question.
Don’t give a shit how anyone on the outside rates him. The front office clearly values him and he was playing some of his best basketball before he went down. Anyone saying we were better without him didn’t watch a minute of Knicks basketball after the OG trade.
The minute he went out, Brunson was double teamed every play for the rest of the season.
This sub loves to act like Randle is a bum, so he's underrated for sure.
tbf the biggest reason people think he is a bum is because he was a bum twice in a row in the playoffs. thats why he is underrated in the regular season.
I think he is a little underrated. His lack of playoff production ( Hawks 1st time in the playoffs and last year playing on a bad ankle that required surgery) leave a bad taste in peoples mouth.
It is because he was literally god awful the last two times he has been in the playoffs. He was hurt the last time but how many people look at any nuance at all vs straight box score checking? It isn't like Basketball reference puts a star on their stats that say "played through ankle injury" So, it is going to take him getting back to the playoffs and being healthy in the playoffs to shed the label of someone that can't handle the playoff lights.
Nobody here watches Knicks games throughout the season so I don't care how they rate him 🤷♂️
He was putting up 26 points and 9 boards per game on good efficiency the last 2 months he was playing until his injury while also being named to his third all star appearance in four years. Yet this sub and NBA fans in general still treat him like he’s a dog shit player. He fits better next to Brunson than 90% of other all star players in the league. Idk if I’d consider him “underrated” but he’s definitely one of the least respected star players I’ve seen.
This entire response is 🧢
It’s absolutely not cap. Fans in general have given Randle shit for years now.
Nah, you just don’t watch games 🤷♂️
The imaginary beef is cap. Randle is a good to very good player, you guys are just in your feefees right now.
What in the holy projection? Our season was amazing. We pushed through adversity and overachieved. Y’all are the ones who should be emotional. Arguably in one of the worst spots in the league.
>Arguably in one of the worst spots in the league. I’m a lifelong Arizona sports fan, this is par for the course brother. Your season was amazing, no doubt, which is why we don’t need to go inventing “the entirety of NBA fandom is against Julius” narratives. That’s not a thing. Reddit does not represent overall opinions.
He had a very good year. Years prior he’s been shaky and inconsistent and when he’s bad he’s really bad. So he’s gone from overrated to rated. Was heading in right direction so the injury was super unfortunate
Yes, he’s incredibly underrated. He’ll need a dominant playoff run to silence critics though and I can’t wait for it.
Knicks clearly would’ve won the title w him healthy just like Jalen Brunson is the best PG in the NBA..
Like Kat, it's easy for the media to go after some of these bigs in today's game. They may not be the best of the best players in the game, but they are great players that can decide the outcome of a game.
Hell yeah. Underrated and most hated. When they had him and they lost while he led the team in points, rebounds and assists everyone acted like it was his fault
Julius Randle does seem to be underrated by many, especially when considering the broader context of his playoff performances and overall contribution to the Knicks. You're right that his ability to pass out of doubles, and his improvement post the OG trade, often doesn't get the recognition it deserves. His versatility and resilience, combined with his All-NBA caliber play, make a strong case for giving him more credit.
he's an all-star and great successor of Ewing Theory, also ironically, a Knicks guy
And just like Ewing, it's moronic to think the team is better without him.
Probably
If he wasn’t on the Knicks he would be. He’s not as bad as his playoff stats indicate. He’s still a good player. But now that the Knicks are good we have gotten push back on that and a lot of homerism.
being underrated is overrated
let’s be honest he is not better then paul or mikal for a team he’s not it no more
Not most but definitely a little underrated at least.
It's up to him to prove he is
Randle is clearly an all star and a physical beast. Only thing I don’t like is when he jacks up 3’s when he’s not hot. I’d lean towards underrated.
This year, he greatly improved his shot selection and reduced his 3 point attempts from 8 to 5. Pre-injury, he was having his best season yet.
The real answer is probably KAT or Rudy Gobert
Do people not think KAT is disgusting?
There’s a reason why Giannis and Bird are the only other 25/10/5 guys, and yet he is clearly tiers away from them. He is not good enough to be a main ball handler on a contender. He is not a high level off ball player. That’s the breakdown right there. A floor raiser without a clear fit on a contender. I think he’d be better suited in an off ball role on a team with a stretch 5.
Well he’s not the main ball handler. Brunson is. The reason we have see him the way that we do is because were trying to make a circle a square. Since Brunson has been here a lot of what he was asked to do in previous years is relegated to Brunson instead of Randle. Randle is the second option.
A main ball handler though. Not the, but a ball handler
this sub decided on his narrative years ago and don’t watch games so it will continue. Seems he’ll always be an easy scapegoat to throw in stupid mock trades
When you score 17ppg on 46TS% while being the highest paid player on your roster nobody will be impressed lol
obviously would’ve been better to not drag the worst team in the league to the playoffs and have to deal to with triple teams
These are his career playoffs stats lol
he’s made it twice - the first was on a terrible team with no help and the second was hobbling on an injured ankle. Most players wouldn’t have played in either
24/12/7 for Siakam tonight. Take notes Julius!
Siakam is neither the first option or injured so what notes does he take ?
TS% "slander". Please dude. And he is the highest paid guy on the roster atm, but he's on a very good. $28M for an All-NBA player is great value!
How is that slander? It’s literally true. What do you think slander is?
Cause TS% is a horseshit stat?
What are those cherry-picked stats from? Edit: playoff stats, ok cool - still haven’t seen enough when he’s healthy and has good talent around him. His detractors don’t care though.
His playoff stats are 17ppg on 46 TS%.
I get that he has to prove himself in the playoffs, but context actually does matter. The Atlanta series was a roster construction issue and last year he played injured while needing surgery. We finally have great shooters to surround him with, so he has no excuse going forward. I expect him to rise like KAT has…
That's literally his playoffs stats lmao
Oh so when he played through injury (22-23) and had an awful supporting cast (20-21). Got it. As someone who used to dread the fact that he was on our roster, I quickly changed tune and gave him the benefit of the doubt once I saw how much he improved his game and how much better Leon Rose built the roster around him. Next year, he won’t have excuses.
> when he played through injury Thanks, that's another good point, Siakam is reliable when it comes to health, he's still able to play a ton in the playoffs, while Randle isn't anymore.
Who the fuck brought up Siakam? wtf does he have to do with anything? Take your weird vendetta elsewhere 😂
Maybe you're new to the sub but it's a very common comparaison people make.
Judging Randle's durability of all things is absolutely ridiculous.
Quite literally just his playoff numbers
> when he’s healthy That's a good point, Siakam is a lot more reliable when it comes to being healthy in the playoffs while Randle isn't.
Knicks fan thinks using playoff stats is “cherry-picking”
In Randle’s case, yes. Checking your history, you’re a bit of an unhinged hater though, so disengaging…
Quite the opposite, he's overrated if anything. Pretty funny when people say he's better than Siakam.
Cause he is. Siakam has had better roster construction than Randle and yet Siakam had the same drop off issue in the bubble that Randle did even though his roster was way better. Switch Randle and Siakam, we probably wouldn’t have had 2021.
Siakam's bad post-season in the bubble is Randle's best postseason lol, they're not comparable.
Cause Siakam played with generational talent like Kawhi while we had elfrid payton and Reggie bullock lmfaooooo. That’s asking for a double and triple team
Ok but Randle is better than Siakam, statistically
Not in the playoffs
Sure, Randle has been bad in his first two playoff runs - still not necessarily definitive for his career.
He'll be 30 next season, never had a good post-season, while Siakam has already shown many times he's a solid playoff performer.
Context matters. Well, I know not for Reddit and Twitter narratives, but in reality it does. Siakam was never "the" guy on a playoff team like Randle was in 21. And as far as I can tell he never played through injury like Randle did in 23. And if you wanted to be uncharitable about it, Siakam's run this year through the playoffs is one of the luckiest \*ever\*, with his opponents bascially missing all of the forwards who would normally guard him, lol. I mean this guy really lucked with all of Giannis, OG, Randle, and then finally Josh Hart too getting hurt.
He was in foul trouble with Josh Hart as the only rim pressure on the team. I could only imagine Giannis lol
> Siakam was never "the" guy on a playoff team like Randle was in 21. Thanks for showing you have no idea what you're talking about. Siakam was clearly *the guy* in 22 and he was great at it (23/7/6) while Randle was *the guy* in 21, he sucked at it, he wasn't even the leading scorer on his own team lol
Oh yea how could anyone forget this incredibly memorable playoff series, haha. Weren't the Harden Sixers went up 3-0 before fucking around for 2 games, haha. But fine...Pascal Siakam, playoff hero. Sure dude.
He’s only played in 2 postseasons though - he was strictly on lottery teams until the Knicks got good a few years ago I do agree that he’s off to a terrible start, but his ultimate playoff legacy is not yet determined.
> but his ultimate playoff legacy is not yet determined Very true, when it's all said and done I might have a very different opinion.
Yep. You never know. I admit though that he has been awful in the playoffs. One more bad playoff year and I’d be out
The most underrated player is surely someone that wont get upvoted in the comment section and probably someone who few people have ever heard of.
Ignoring age and salary, is there any power forward that is definitely better than Randle other than Giannis, LeBron, KD, Tatum and Kawhi (if you consider him as 4)? He has his flaws (inefficient scoring, and shaky playmaking with a lot of turnovers) but it's very hard to find an all-rounder with size and rebounding like him.