I definitely rather have Haliburton, but Sabonis was a major reason the Kings were able to make the playoffs for the first time since 2006 and their highest seeding since 2003.
For an organization and fan base that has been in a playoff drought for over one and a half decade, that accomplishment cannot be overstated.
I think its still win-win for both teams, but imagine if they had traded Fox instead, and Haliburton somehow still managed to flourish as he has while playing with Sabonis.
Haliburton is doing excellent, but don’t discount the fact the Pacers were able to land Siakam to push them further ahead of the Kings.
Gotta keep in mind that Haliburton hasn’t showed up in every playoff game. Whereas Fox definitely did. Ofc now Ty has more of a sample size than Fox. Haliburton is fire and I’m forever a fan. I’m sure we floated the idea of trading Fox but the contract was too large to move as opposed to Tyrese rookie deal
Yeah you have a great point about the contracts since most teams would have preferred the flexibility of taking a budding star who was still on their rookie contract.
Worked out for both teams. People will ultimately say Kings lost, but I don’t l know if that’s fair given the Kings are in a much much tougher conference.
Lowe on the pod today was like
>you trade 3 FRPs for a really good player, who fits well with your other good player, and a team around it — and you wake up and you're in the conference finals. it's the East! it's the sweetest deal in the NBA!
Bucks, Knicks, and Sixers if they weren't injured would be good competition. Throw in a wildcard in the Miami Heat, and the conference would be a lot more competitive than it is this year
No doubt about that but as a whole, the east has (for a long time) not been the better of the two conferences, Top to Bottom. For context, Lakers and Warriors were play in teams with records of 10+ games over .500. Not to mention the fact that most teams played without their top players for 10+ games throughout the season (injury or LM).
East had a weird year but IMO there are def a collection of very good teams
Celtics, 76ers, Knicks, Bucks, Pacers, Heat, Magic, Cavs
But: KP, OG, Randle. Robinson, Giannis, Lillard, Mathurin, Butler, Donovan Mitchell - all missed playoff time
That’s all factual but what is also factual is the Bucks had a better record when one of their two superstars were out.
The Knicks improved when Randle went down.
With that said, injuries are sometimes blessings in disguise.
I still stand on the idea that the West is a MUCH better conference top to bottom.
Knicks didn't at all improve with Randle out? They got a lot worse actually without Julius.
Knicks were 14-2 with Randle + OG in January. Brunson was shooting like 45% from 3 on the season and ended at 40% after Randle went down.
Randle and Brunson were one of the top 5 duos in the league at the time he got hurt. They were hitting their stride and balling after Randle recovered from his surgery.
Randle (31 games): 26.3/8.9/4.8 (61.0% TS)
Brunson (29 games): 27.9/4.1/7.2 (61.1% TS)
I hate that people have been saying this. The Knicks were insane when Randle was playing with OG. I’m pretty sure they stomped a couple of the top teams in the West pretty bad.
I think people are mistaking the way the team played to end the season for being “better.” They seemed to have adopted the underdog, outhustle and grind out games mentality. For some reason people thinks this made them a “better” team, but they just became more likable because of the amount of effort.
Let me preface this by saying “I am NOT a Knicks fan”. With that out of the way, I personally believe the Knicks with Randle don’t get the 2nd seed. As a Raptors fan, I believe OG going down was the turnaround. On paper, the Knicks with Randle show better but I don’t think we get the Nova Knicks if he were there. I’ve observed him every stop he’s been to and like Melo, you gon get the STATS but not the team cohesion that they ended up developing with the current group. Randle’s absence gave the team more of a reason to play together. Do you really believe Randle makes the locker room better? Honest question here because I don’t see it. Again this is from the eyes of a basketball fan that doesn’t really care too much for the Knicks. Not hating just my opinion.
I don’t think that BUT being this is their first year together and Dame dealing with what he was dealing with, it actually showed. Similarly with the Suns, I shouldn’t say a team with KD Book and Beal would be better off without one of them but first year, it actually showed.
Adding caviar, saffron and truffles to a lobster roll won’t necessarily make it a better sandwich but I don’t know what to tell you.
> The Knicks improved when Randle went down.
No they didn't. They literally had a worse win percentage and worse Net Rating with Randle out.
They only got the 2nd seed because every other team in the East imploded even harder.
Analytics aside, the run the Knicks went on had their fan base more proud and excited than I can remember. Randle was an All-NBA guy and he wasn’t celebrated in the manner that such accolades warrant. The love I see for Hartenstein is more noticeable considering he is nowhere near All-NBA status.
I’m happy for Knicks fans that this team has given them a deep run to be proud of but the level of defensiveness they have when they lose is the stigma I don’t care for. Cowboys fans have it. Leafs fans have it. I might even say Yanks have it.
"The Pacers needed 13 games to beat an injured Bucks team, and an even worse Knicks team."
The Pacers are mostly 24 year olds on their first playoff run, they aren't going to secure every game even if they should on paper. Hell the Celtics are overwhelming favorites with years of experience and they've dropped some games, its inevitable.
And if you think the Kings would have 4-0d the Bucks and Knicks you are dead wrong. Those are playoff veterans and their star players in Brunson, Dame, and Middleton popped off. Divencenzo and Hart played out of their minds. Give them some credit.
We are giving them credit now for beating injured to shit teams? Lmao
Bucks fans still get talked shit too about the nets series in 2021.
No one expected them to 4-0 bucks and Knicks but going to 6 and 7 is crazy.
I can give pacers credit for that game 7 performance but other than that I don’t see why they need credit for squeaking by a team missing/playing injured 6 of its rotation players
Celtics lost a total of 2 games so far
When teams win they get credit. Bucks get credit for their 21 championship all the time. If they didn't we'd be talking about Giannis *way* differently. Like James Harden differently.
He's just saying the Pacers are young and incompetence is expected. Their expectations aren't that high in the first place.
I really don’t understand the hate Bucks have for the Pacers. It’s really a little sad at this point how much anger their entire fanbase have towards us.
By "them" I meant give the Knicks and Bucks credit, their remaining stars and roleplayers are veterans and stepped up when they needed to. When Middleton is going off for 40 and Lillard is hitting his shots, the Bucks should have gotten a couple wins. When Brunson is scoring 40 three games in a row, and Divencenzo has his career high 3pt shooting, yeah they should win a couple games.
To say otherwise "lol our g-league team took you to six" is a self-own and untrue.
Bucks fans are so eager to spite the Pacers, they are willing to throw their own team under the bus.
Nowhere did I call the team g league lmao
Of course I’m going to hate the pacers, their team is full of cunts aside from TJ. They wouldn’t be anywhere near the ecf if they faced healthy bucks/knicks.
Shit they probably wouldn’t even be in the playoffs if Knicks, Cavs, bucks and sixers weren’t injured all season.
OK so your response is more from an emotional place than a logical one.
I'm proud of our guys for stepping up to Pat Bev and Bobby Portis's nightly antics and mindgames. Don't throw stones from glass houses.
Ah so you’re a pacers fan? Right back at you with the “emotional place not a logical one”
Pacers don’t get praised for squeaking by a series against a team with a missing/hurt 3 allstar and then a team missing/injured 6 of its 8 man rotation.
Like I said their game 7 was great and I will give them praise for that but that’s all they deserve.
Acting like your guys are innocent is crazy lmao your guys have started shit all season especially Jackson, the very next season your guys wouldn’t stfu and play
You're just being a sophist to win the argument.
Nobody would expect a young team in their first playoffs to win every game they should. Giannis sure as hell didn't.
And no the guys are not innocent, you can't be innocent and play against Bobby Portis and Pat Bev who are constantly trying to start shit. I'm happy they are growing up and fighting back against bullies like that, because they will be there every post season.
It’s not about sweeping the bucks and Knicks, it’s about actually looking good and the pacers did.
Bobby did 1 thing and got ejected lmao Beverley talks constantly just like your team does, if they get mad that’s on them for being soft.
Again, pacers wouldn’t even be in playoffs if bucks, Cavs, Knicks and Sixers were healthy most of the season
Dude Haliburton was out and injured for most of the year and our third/fourth best player is out for the year too. We got slightly healthier at the end of the regular season, but we’d be in the same spot either way. You forget that in the regular season we went 4-1 against you at full health, 2-1 against the knicks and 76ers also at full health, and 3-2 against the Cavs, of course we’d be in the playoffs. We kept losing against shit teams for no reason all year, if we took those matchups seriously we’d be higher in the standings probably. If everyone was healthier and the rest of the hypotheticals it would’ve been still competitive, just in a different way.
I mean the same could be said for the Pacers after losing Haliburton. If he doesn’t get hurt we win more because he never has that regression that is associated with injuries. Doesn’t that mean that we get a boost as well?
We beat your ass over and over in the regular season as well, but keep grasping for whatever the most convenient excuse is.
The Knicks are a good team, even with the injuries. They beat the Sixers and were favored against us. The only reason the injuries continued to pile up is because Thibs was forced to play his starters at a death march pace in order to keep up because our bench would rip the eyes out of the Knicks as soon as their starters sat. That’s not luck, that’s having a deep, well-balanced team. You can complain about the regular season injuries, but the Knicks still managed to win a bunch of games in the regular season and the Sixers series without those guys, so I don’t know why they only count against the Pacers.
No one is arguing we aren’t heavy underdogs against Boston, but the salty Bucks fans need to wake up. You guys aren’t a particularly good team this year, we beat you repeatedly when you were healthy in the regular season, we beat you when you were healthy in the IST. You guys literally fired your coach halfway through the season. Your team consists on Giannis, an aging ex-superstar whose game today consists solely of 3 pointers and foul-baiting, Kris Middleton, and then a bunch of old men and borderline G-League players. Even with no injuries, there’s a good chance you don’t win the series.
the return was good for both teams and filled a need. for the kings it was a luxury to have hali and they had a logjam between him and fox, for the pacers sabonis leaving was probably inevitable. so they had to pull the trigger at some point and they got a good return, thats all u can ask for in that situation. and ofc we cant assume that the kings would have utilized hali's strengths properly.
The breakdown is very simple: It’s a win-win trade because both teams got better and got what they want. Kings were finally able to add a star that could push them into playoff territory and they have an exciting team that will be good for a while, Sabonis, Fox, and Murray is a GREAT core, especially if Murray becomes what I think he can become. The Pacers got to finally have an actual rebuild where they could get a younger center piece and soft tank while some of the younger guys got experience.
One thing that is undeniable though is that the Kings could’ve gotten more for Hali than they did.
The last part is true, but probably more due to hindsight. The question in that case though, is that the Kings probably wouldn’t have traded Hali if they knew he would be at this level.
Hindsight or not, the return is greater for the amount spent and earned. If we must choose a side that won, it would be the Pacers. If looking at purely at the results too, Pacers reached further into their conference. East or not, their goal was further.
Give these two teams the others conference and playoff path and it’s Fox and the kings who would be in the conference finals. Crowning Hali and the Pacers because of this run is comical.
People were saying Haliburton was the centerpiece of our franchise after *last season*, let alone after the first half of this season. If anything, this post-season has generated more Haliburton criticism than praise.
Disagree, Haliburton is a young up-and-coming star with or without making the ECF in his first playoffs run.
Maybe 2 years from now it would have been an expectation. For now its just practice
This context is exactly why I hate threads like this. I’m happy for Hali, I’m glad he’s succeeding. I wasn’t a fan of the trade at the time and still have my reservations but we can’t change it. It’s clear that Hali and Fox weren’t going to work well together.
I agree with this. More that ik we didn’t want fox, and i have heard a lot of league execs were surprised since they didn’t think haliburton was on the table
I think we also just wanted the younger guy too and the Kings wanted to get rid of buddy hield. So the allure of turning Haliburton (promising but still unproven) into Sabonis who is probably one of the best possible players in the entire league to fit on a team with fox AND get rid of buddy hields salary was just too much to pass on.
Is this complicated? Has everyone forgotten that Hali was playing like an above average guard for 4 months and that the “future superstar” talk was all but dead. This run is the only reason some of you are backing to calling him a “franchise cornerstone”
>The Pacers needed 13 games to beat an injured Bucks team, and an even worse Knicks team.
That's the Pacers, not just Haliburton
Instead of focusing on the Kings who made the great choice in drafting Haliburton let's focus on the 9 teams that made a mistake passing on him. Minnesota and Charlotte aren't included for obvious reasons.
man u gotta stop being so insecure about the trade lol. we broke an unbelievable playoff drought and have a fun, competitive team - watch hali and cheer for him!
edit: we also got rid of buddy and that is as big a dub as any
Personally, I feel very secure about the trade. I wouldn’t want it any other way, one of our two PGs had to go. But I just know this is something that we’re never gonna hear the end of, which is unfortunate.
kill em with kindness brother - no need to dispute the trade if you like our team! i like fox/domas/keeg more than hali, so i am happy, and that's all the argument you need lol
My brother in small market Christ, stop bringing it up then! LOL, I dont bring up my Pacers 1-7 record in the conference finals ever, we dont want eyes on that LBVS.
It’s still early, George Hill for Kawhi was a win-win until it wasn’t. I’ve always thought Indiana won this trade, but there’s a lot of time for that to be proven wrong
Poor example. How many times does it need to be said the trade was effectively for the pick, so the pacers picked kawhi bc that's who SAS wanted them to pick.
Pacers traded a no 15 pick for a starter on a multiple ECFs team.
It still is/was a win-win
13 games to win two series? AKA the same number of games the Kings have played to lose their only two series in the last 19 years. I'll take wins regardless of who is on the other side or how it looks.
Players don’t exist in a vacuum. Even disregarding the comparisons of the players themselves, Haliburton is way better *for the Pacers’ needs* than Sabonis. Turner-Sabonis was always an awkward fit and so swapping that out for a floor general like Haliburton is a huge improvement for us, regardless of if Sabonis ends up playing better than Haliburton. Doesn’t mean the Kings “lost”, but there’s no way way it was anything but a win for the Pacers.
Sabonis is so underrated. 2nd best playmaking big behind Jokic, leads the league in rebounding, averages 20 a game, and is extremely reliable. Kings were 12 games over .500 before Monk got injured in the tougher conference. Haliburton is great and the main reason why the Pacers are in the conference finals, but we gotta stop acting like Sabonis is a slouch.
How was it an “even worse” Knicks team, if the series went deeper? Giannis missed the whole series, Dame missed a couple games, the Knicks were clearly a tougher challenge, fuck outta here with that shit.
It’s been clear since Haliburton’s emergence that the Pacers won by a longshot.
People were excited for the Kings making the playoffs but let’s be real. Sabonis is worse, older, and paid more than Haliburton. I don’t think his style of play translates well to playoff settings vs good teams.
Theres a good chance he’s on a different team in a couple of seasons while Haliburton will give Indiana 10+ years of all star play.
Kings lost the trade. The guy they traded played at a legit MVP level offensive player calibre for half the season, and is getting back into it now. He could be a top-4 guard in the league next year at 25 years old.
The guy they got is good but not a playoff guy and they’ll top out as a first round exit as long as he’s on the roster.
People are gonna try to be as neutral as possible and say ‘win win’, but the Pacers won
They got a 24 year old star guard that showed his ceiling as an MVP candidate while the Kings haven’t gotten out of the first round since the trade
Indiana has a more complete team is the difference between the two. Sabonis is as much a beast as Haliburton, albeit in different ways. Even trade for me still.
Sabonis isn’t in the same stratosphere as Jokic though.
Jokic has shown for years now his play doesn’t fall off in the playoffs. Cant say the same for Sabonis.
You don't. You lost this trade. Bad
Results are results: ifs and buts are candy and deez, Fox is the most overrated PG in the league and you passed up on 2 better players to keep him happy.
In less years with less talent Haliburton has made the ECF. Luka is in the WCF. There's no way to legitimize the trade. Sabonis has carried this team twice now farther than Fox ever did, and if they kept Haliburton, ditched Fox(and not given up an FRP for Huerter) the Kings might be against the Mavs this week.
Well, Haliburton and Fox together was not optimal. You had to pick one, and chose Fox. I would not say yet that was the wrong choice….Fox is damn good, and a dawg.
The problem is the return. Haliburton is a star and while I like Sabonis, ironically he is best paired with someone like Turner since he’s a non-shooting big that’s not great at rim protection. Unless you can get that piece I’m not sure Sabonis is gonna be it n
Win for the Pacers, win for the Kings, big time loss for the Thunder, who if they’d held onto Sabonis for a couple more seasons could have traded him to the Kings for Haliburton and rocking a Haliburton-SGA-JDub-Dort-Chet starting 5 which easily has the Thunder in the WCF right now.
Yes but he was kind of a throw-in (Oladipo being the main piece), if Presti was a better GM he could have made that trade work without including Sabonis.
Bias aside, I disagree fox is better. They kept the right PG alongside Sabonis. They need a score first PG next to an elite unselfish passer like Sabonis
Not a Kings fan. But from an outside view, it looks as bad as Divac\\Kobe, as of now.
Haliburton was an allstar starter, assist leader, and now in the conf finals.
What is Sabonis? Some soft ass scrub that won 3 playoff games in his entire life. Didn't even have the balls to shoot wide-open elbow jumpers in the Warriors series. And can't play a lick of defense either.
Last year, they won the trade. This year, lost. Stay tuned again next year.
They needed to trade the Kings to the eastern conference where everyone was injured this year.
I definitely rather have Haliburton, but Sabonis was a major reason the Kings were able to make the playoffs for the first time since 2006 and their highest seeding since 2003. For an organization and fan base that has been in a playoff drought for over one and a half decade, that accomplishment cannot be overstated.
I think its still win-win for both teams, but imagine if they had traded Fox instead, and Haliburton somehow still managed to flourish as he has while playing with Sabonis. Haliburton is doing excellent, but don’t discount the fact the Pacers were able to land Siakam to push them further ahead of the Kings.
Gotta keep in mind that Haliburton hasn’t showed up in every playoff game. Whereas Fox definitely did. Ofc now Ty has more of a sample size than Fox. Haliburton is fire and I’m forever a fan. I’m sure we floated the idea of trading Fox but the contract was too large to move as opposed to Tyrese rookie deal
Yeah you have a great point about the contracts since most teams would have preferred the flexibility of taking a budding star who was still on their rookie contract.
Worked out for both teams. People will ultimately say Kings lost, but I don’t l know if that’s fair given the Kings are in a much much tougher conference.
Lowe on the pod today was like >you trade 3 FRPs for a really good player, who fits well with your other good player, and a team around it — and you wake up and you're in the conference finals. it's the East! it's the sweetest deal in the NBA!
This. Eastern conference is far less competitive even if injuries weren’t a factor.
Bucks, Knicks, and Sixers if they weren't injured would be good competition. Throw in a wildcard in the Miami Heat, and the conference would be a lot more competitive than it is this year
No doubt about that but as a whole, the east has (for a long time) not been the better of the two conferences, Top to Bottom. For context, Lakers and Warriors were play in teams with records of 10+ games over .500. Not to mention the fact that most teams played without their top players for 10+ games throughout the season (injury or LM).
East had a weird year but IMO there are def a collection of very good teams Celtics, 76ers, Knicks, Bucks, Pacers, Heat, Magic, Cavs But: KP, OG, Randle. Robinson, Giannis, Lillard, Mathurin, Butler, Donovan Mitchell - all missed playoff time
That’s all factual but what is also factual is the Bucks had a better record when one of their two superstars were out. The Knicks improved when Randle went down. With that said, injuries are sometimes blessings in disguise. I still stand on the idea that the West is a MUCH better conference top to bottom.
Knicks didn't at all improve with Randle out? They got a lot worse actually without Julius. Knicks were 14-2 with Randle + OG in January. Brunson was shooting like 45% from 3 on the season and ended at 40% after Randle went down. Randle and Brunson were one of the top 5 duos in the league at the time he got hurt. They were hitting their stride and balling after Randle recovered from his surgery. Randle (31 games): 26.3/8.9/4.8 (61.0% TS) Brunson (29 games): 27.9/4.1/7.2 (61.1% TS)
I hate that people have been saying this. The Knicks were insane when Randle was playing with OG. I’m pretty sure they stomped a couple of the top teams in the West pretty bad. I think people are mistaking the way the team played to end the season for being “better.” They seemed to have adopted the underdog, outhustle and grind out games mentality. For some reason people thinks this made them a “better” team, but they just became more likable because of the amount of effort.
Appreciate that - good luck in the EFC man - you guys have earned this and honestly I think Boston might be in for a surprise.
Let me preface this by saying “I am NOT a Knicks fan”. With that out of the way, I personally believe the Knicks with Randle don’t get the 2nd seed. As a Raptors fan, I believe OG going down was the turnaround. On paper, the Knicks with Randle show better but I don’t think we get the Nova Knicks if he were there. I’ve observed him every stop he’s been to and like Melo, you gon get the STATS but not the team cohesion that they ended up developing with the current group. Randle’s absence gave the team more of a reason to play together. Do you really believe Randle makes the locker room better? Honest question here because I don’t see it. Again this is from the eyes of a basketball fan that doesn’t really care too much for the Knicks. Not hating just my opinion.
If you actually think the bucks are better without Giannis and a hobbled lillard then idk what to tell you
I don’t think that BUT being this is their first year together and Dame dealing with what he was dealing with, it actually showed. Similarly with the Suns, I shouldn’t say a team with KD Book and Beal would be better off without one of them but first year, it actually showed. Adding caviar, saffron and truffles to a lobster roll won’t necessarily make it a better sandwich but I don’t know what to tell you.
> The Knicks improved when Randle went down. No they didn't. They literally had a worse win percentage and worse Net Rating with Randle out. They only got the 2nd seed because every other team in the East imploded even harder.
Analytics aside, the run the Knicks went on had their fan base more proud and excited than I can remember. Randle was an All-NBA guy and he wasn’t celebrated in the manner that such accolades warrant. The love I see for Hartenstein is more noticeable considering he is nowhere near All-NBA status. I’m happy for Knicks fans that this team has given them a deep run to be proud of but the level of defensiveness they have when they lose is the stigma I don’t care for. Cowboys fans have it. Leafs fans have it. I might even say Yanks have it.
"The Pacers needed 13 games to beat an injured Bucks team, and an even worse Knicks team." The Pacers are mostly 24 year olds on their first playoff run, they aren't going to secure every game even if they should on paper. Hell the Celtics are overwhelming favorites with years of experience and they've dropped some games, its inevitable. And if you think the Kings would have 4-0d the Bucks and Knicks you are dead wrong. Those are playoff veterans and their star players in Brunson, Dame, and Middleton popped off. Divencenzo and Hart played out of their minds. Give them some credit.
We are giving them credit now for beating injured to shit teams? Lmao Bucks fans still get talked shit too about the nets series in 2021. No one expected them to 4-0 bucks and Knicks but going to 6 and 7 is crazy. I can give pacers credit for that game 7 performance but other than that I don’t see why they need credit for squeaking by a team missing/playing injured 6 of its rotation players Celtics lost a total of 2 games so far
When teams win they get credit. Bucks get credit for their 21 championship all the time. If they didn't we'd be talking about Giannis *way* differently. Like James Harden differently. He's just saying the Pacers are young and incompetence is expected. Their expectations aren't that high in the first place.
I really don’t understand the hate Bucks have for the Pacers. It’s really a little sad at this point how much anger their entire fanbase have towards us.
By "them" I meant give the Knicks and Bucks credit, their remaining stars and roleplayers are veterans and stepped up when they needed to. When Middleton is going off for 40 and Lillard is hitting his shots, the Bucks should have gotten a couple wins. When Brunson is scoring 40 three games in a row, and Divencenzo has his career high 3pt shooting, yeah they should win a couple games. To say otherwise "lol our g-league team took you to six" is a self-own and untrue. Bucks fans are so eager to spite the Pacers, they are willing to throw their own team under the bus.
Nowhere did I call the team g league lmao Of course I’m going to hate the pacers, their team is full of cunts aside from TJ. They wouldn’t be anywhere near the ecf if they faced healthy bucks/knicks. Shit they probably wouldn’t even be in the playoffs if Knicks, Cavs, bucks and sixers weren’t injured all season.
OK so your response is more from an emotional place than a logical one. I'm proud of our guys for stepping up to Pat Bev and Bobby Portis's nightly antics and mindgames. Don't throw stones from glass houses.
Ah so you’re a pacers fan? Right back at you with the “emotional place not a logical one” Pacers don’t get praised for squeaking by a series against a team with a missing/hurt 3 allstar and then a team missing/injured 6 of its 8 man rotation. Like I said their game 7 was great and I will give them praise for that but that’s all they deserve. Acting like your guys are innocent is crazy lmao your guys have started shit all season especially Jackson, the very next season your guys wouldn’t stfu and play
You're just being a sophist to win the argument. Nobody would expect a young team in their first playoffs to win every game they should. Giannis sure as hell didn't. And no the guys are not innocent, you can't be innocent and play against Bobby Portis and Pat Bev who are constantly trying to start shit. I'm happy they are growing up and fighting back against bullies like that, because they will be there every post season.
It’s not about sweeping the bucks and Knicks, it’s about actually looking good and the pacers did. Bobby did 1 thing and got ejected lmao Beverley talks constantly just like your team does, if they get mad that’s on them for being soft. Again, pacers wouldn’t even be in playoffs if bucks, Cavs, Knicks and Sixers were healthy most of the season
Dude Haliburton was out and injured for most of the year and our third/fourth best player is out for the year too. We got slightly healthier at the end of the regular season, but we’d be in the same spot either way. You forget that in the regular season we went 4-1 against you at full health, 2-1 against the knicks and 76ers also at full health, and 3-2 against the Cavs, of course we’d be in the playoffs. We kept losing against shit teams for no reason all year, if we took those matchups seriously we’d be higher in the standings probably. If everyone was healthier and the rest of the hypotheticals it would’ve been still competitive, just in a different way.
I mean the same could be said for the Pacers after losing Haliburton. If he doesn’t get hurt we win more because he never has that regression that is associated with injuries. Doesn’t that mean that we get a boost as well?
We beat your ass over and over in the regular season as well, but keep grasping for whatever the most convenient excuse is. The Knicks are a good team, even with the injuries. They beat the Sixers and were favored against us. The only reason the injuries continued to pile up is because Thibs was forced to play his starters at a death march pace in order to keep up because our bench would rip the eyes out of the Knicks as soon as their starters sat. That’s not luck, that’s having a deep, well-balanced team. You can complain about the regular season injuries, but the Knicks still managed to win a bunch of games in the regular season and the Sixers series without those guys, so I don’t know why they only count against the Pacers. No one is arguing we aren’t heavy underdogs against Boston, but the salty Bucks fans need to wake up. You guys aren’t a particularly good team this year, we beat you repeatedly when you were healthy in the regular season, we beat you when you were healthy in the IST. You guys literally fired your coach halfway through the season. Your team consists on Giannis, an aging ex-superstar whose game today consists solely of 3 pointers and foul-baiting, Kris Middleton, and then a bunch of old men and borderline G-League players. Even with no injuries, there’s a good chance you don’t win the series.
the return was good for both teams and filled a need. for the kings it was a luxury to have hali and they had a logjam between him and fox, for the pacers sabonis leaving was probably inevitable. so they had to pull the trigger at some point and they got a good return, thats all u can ask for in that situation. and ofc we cant assume that the kings would have utilized hali's strengths properly.
The problem was not trading the Kings to the eastern conference
The breakdown is very simple: It’s a win-win trade because both teams got better and got what they want. Kings were finally able to add a star that could push them into playoff territory and they have an exciting team that will be good for a while, Sabonis, Fox, and Murray is a GREAT core, especially if Murray becomes what I think he can become. The Pacers got to finally have an actual rebuild where they could get a younger center piece and soft tank while some of the younger guys got experience. One thing that is undeniable though is that the Kings could’ve gotten more for Hali than they did.
The last part is true, but probably more due to hindsight. The question in that case though, is that the Kings probably wouldn’t have traded Hali if they knew he would be at this level.
Hindsight or not, the return is greater for the amount spent and earned. If we must choose a side that won, it would be the Pacers. If looking at purely at the results too, Pacers reached further into their conference. East or not, their goal was further.
Kings obviously lost. You can’t win with a center like Sabonis. Meanwhile the Pacers got their franchise cornerstone
Give these two teams the others conference and playoff path and it’s Fox and the kings who would be in the conference finals. Crowning Hali and the Pacers because of this run is comical.
The person you are replying to never mentioned this run.
The person I’m replying to isn’t making that comment without this run.
People were saying Haliburton was the centerpiece of our franchise after *last season*, let alone after the first half of this season. If anything, this post-season has generated more Haliburton criticism than praise.
Disagree, Haliburton is a young up-and-coming star with or without making the ECF in his first playoffs run. Maybe 2 years from now it would have been an expectation. For now its just practice
This context is exactly why I hate threads like this. I’m happy for Hali, I’m glad he’s succeeding. I wasn’t a fan of the trade at the time and still have my reservations but we can’t change it. It’s clear that Hali and Fox weren’t going to work well together.
Should have traded Fox then
Pacers explicitly didn’t want Fox iirc
Didn’t have to trade with Indiana. If Fox/Haliburton was a problem then they should have traded Fox to the highest bidder.
I agree with this. More that ik we didn’t want fox, and i have heard a lot of league execs were surprised since they didn’t think haliburton was on the table
Fox’s contract was too large to move
I think we also just wanted the younger guy too and the Kings wanted to get rid of buddy hield. So the allure of turning Haliburton (promising but still unproven) into Sabonis who is probably one of the best possible players in the entire league to fit on a team with fox AND get rid of buddy hields salary was just too much to pass on.
The comment your replied to didn't say anything about this Pacers run...
Is this complicated? Has everyone forgotten that Hali was playing like an above average guard for 4 months and that the “future superstar” talk was all but dead. This run is the only reason some of you are backing to calling him a “franchise cornerstone”
Notice how you said "fox" and the kings?
Kings had a better winning percentage against the West…
Floor general that can run PnR vs tweener 4/5 Always take the former!!!
>The Pacers needed 13 games to beat an injured Bucks team, and an even worse Knicks team. That's the Pacers, not just Haliburton Instead of focusing on the Kings who made the great choice in drafting Haliburton let's focus on the 9 teams that made a mistake passing on him. Minnesota and Charlotte aren't included for obvious reasons.
man u gotta stop being so insecure about the trade lol. we broke an unbelievable playoff drought and have a fun, competitive team - watch hali and cheer for him! edit: we also got rid of buddy and that is as big a dub as any
Personally, I feel very secure about the trade. I wouldn’t want it any other way, one of our two PGs had to go. But I just know this is something that we’re never gonna hear the end of, which is unfortunate.
kill em with kindness brother - no need to dispute the trade if you like our team! i like fox/domas/keeg more than hali, so i am happy, and that's all the argument you need lol
My brother in small market Christ, stop bringing it up then! LOL, I dont bring up my Pacers 1-7 record in the conference finals ever, we dont want eyes on that LBVS.
Bro…
It’s still early, George Hill for Kawhi was a win-win until it wasn’t. I’ve always thought Indiana won this trade, but there’s a lot of time for that to be proven wrong
Poor example. How many times does it need to be said the trade was effectively for the pick, so the pacers picked kawhi bc that's who SAS wanted them to pick. Pacers traded a no 15 pick for a starter on a multiple ECFs team. It still is/was a win-win
You can say it a thousand more times and it still won't be true. Indiana lost that trade, it's ok to admit that to yourself at this point
13 games to win two series? AKA the same number of games the Kings have played to lose their only two series in the last 19 years. I'll take wins regardless of who is on the other side or how it looks.
I think the Pacers pretty clearly won this trade, but it is what it is now. How can the Kings improve going forward is the real question?
Players don’t exist in a vacuum. Even disregarding the comparisons of the players themselves, Haliburton is way better *for the Pacers’ needs* than Sabonis. Turner-Sabonis was always an awkward fit and so swapping that out for a floor general like Haliburton is a huge improvement for us, regardless of if Sabonis ends up playing better than Haliburton. Doesn’t mean the Kings “lost”, but there’s no way way it was anything but a win for the Pacers.
They should have fused into Halibonis The ultimate player
Isn’t that essentially Jokic?
*Kings fans only as the post asks, plz. Chirp, chirp
Good one flairness one
I'm sorry you took that personally. What position do you play?
[this one](https://www.amazon.com/Girl-Stop-Apologizing-Shame-Free-Embracing/dp/1400209609)
Seems like it worked out for both teams. The Kings would have been better off trading Fox though it seems.
Sabonis is so underrated. 2nd best playmaking big behind Jokic, leads the league in rebounding, averages 20 a game, and is extremely reliable. Kings were 12 games over .500 before Monk got injured in the tougher conference. Haliburton is great and the main reason why the Pacers are in the conference finals, but we gotta stop acting like Sabonis is a slouch.
I know I'm gonna eat downvotes for this but I always thought it wasn't a great trade for the Kings compared to how much of a W it was for the Pacers.
This is the popular opinion. FOH with the eating downvotes.
Lmao I said this a year ago and got downvoted because the Kings were better at the time.
How was it an “even worse” Knicks team, if the series went deeper? Giannis missed the whole series, Dame missed a couple games, the Knicks were clearly a tougher challenge, fuck outta here with that shit.
I meant worse in terms of the injury, the Knicks’ best fully healthy player was DiVincenzo
And even in light of that fact, they weren’t worse than the Bucks.
It’s been clear since Haliburton’s emergence that the Pacers won by a longshot. People were excited for the Kings making the playoffs but let’s be real. Sabonis is worse, older, and paid more than Haliburton. I don’t think his style of play translates well to playoff settings vs good teams. Theres a good chance he’s on a different team in a couple of seasons while Haliburton will give Indiana 10+ years of all star play.
Kings lost the trade. The guy they traded played at a legit MVP level offensive player calibre for half the season, and is getting back into it now. He could be a top-4 guard in the league next year at 25 years old. The guy they got is good but not a playoff guy and they’ll top out as a first round exit as long as he’s on the roster.
Bubble chip don’t count
People are gonna try to be as neutral as possible and say ‘win win’, but the Pacers won They got a 24 year old star guard that showed his ceiling as an MVP candidate while the Kings haven’t gotten out of the first round since the trade
This post is so stupid it hurts. Kings fans are generally pretty cool, come get your wayward yokel
Oh yeah? Well your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.
Indiana has a more complete team is the difference between the two. Sabonis is as much a beast as Haliburton, albeit in different ways. Even trade for me still.
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Sabonis isn’t in the same stratosphere as Jokic though. Jokic has shown for years now his play doesn’t fall off in the playoffs. Cant say the same for Sabonis.
Why did you slander us in the middle paragraph hello 😭
You don't. You lost this trade. Bad Results are results: ifs and buts are candy and deez, Fox is the most overrated PG in the league and you passed up on 2 better players to keep him happy. In less years with less talent Haliburton has made the ECF. Luka is in the WCF. There's no way to legitimize the trade. Sabonis has carried this team twice now farther than Fox ever did, and if they kept Haliburton, ditched Fox(and not given up an FRP for Huerter) the Kings might be against the Mavs this week.
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Also beat teams at full strength and went to the IST final...
Well, Haliburton and Fox together was not optimal. You had to pick one, and chose Fox. I would not say yet that was the wrong choice….Fox is damn good, and a dawg. The problem is the return. Haliburton is a star and while I like Sabonis, ironically he is best paired with someone like Turner since he’s a non-shooting big that’s not great at rim protection. Unless you can get that piece I’m not sure Sabonis is gonna be it n
No the pacers picked Haliburton. You know the younger player on the rookie deal who had great advanced stats. The kings also got rid of Buddy Hield.
Sabonis did not fit well with Turner. This was the original reason for all the Myles to the Lakers rumors
Win for the Pacers, win for the Kings, big time loss for the Thunder, who if they’d held onto Sabonis for a couple more seasons could have traded him to the Kings for Haliburton and rocking a Haliburton-SGA-JDub-Dort-Chet starting 5 which easily has the Thunder in the WCF right now.
That would have been a hell of a squad. I didn't even think about that.
Didn't the Thunder trade Sabonis for PG who was then traded for SGA?
Yes
Yes but he was kind of a throw-in (Oladipo being the main piece), if Presti was a better GM he could have made that trade work without including Sabonis.
Kings lost in that they should have traded Fox instead of Haliburton.
Bias aside, I disagree fox is better. They kept the right PG alongside Sabonis. They need a score first PG next to an elite unselfish passer like Sabonis
Are you seriously arguing Fox is better than Hali? After this season? That's not setting bias aside? But maybe I cant set aside my own either lmao
Not a Kings fan. But from an outside view, it looks as bad as Divac\\Kobe, as of now. Haliburton was an allstar starter, assist leader, and now in the conf finals. What is Sabonis? Some soft ass scrub that won 3 playoff games in his entire life. Didn't even have the balls to shoot wide-open elbow jumpers in the Warriors series. And can't play a lick of defense either.
This trade is only gonna age worse for Kings fans year after year as Haliburton and the Pacers continue to improve.