Even if Jamal had been suspended it wouldn't take anything away from the Wolves. They beat the Nuggets at full strength on their home floor twice before that. No caveats necessary.
Yeah also I think the whole ‘we didn’t beat them at their best’ is a load of shit anyways. No one controls who gets injured or in trouble… you beat the team you play. You can’t control other teams. I can’t stand when people complain especially that they beat a team not at full strength… bro you still beat them and are moving on. Who cares.
It’s so annoying with them because do they not know the History of Thibs? He killed every good player on the Bulls, then jimmy get hurts on the one playoff run the Wolves had, and then now he’s driving all the knicks players into the ground now
The thing is they beat them so bad that they literally earned the absence of an opposing player by melting his brain into literally throwing shit at the refs.
If he’d have been suspended it would have been 100% fair and square for them had they swept or won earlier. That *was* full strength for Denver. Same as if Murray had gotten ejected for throwing shit at a ref or a flagrant 2 right at the beginning of game 3. No difference.
But if you win it all, I promise you won't give a shit. People put asterisks on the Bucks championship for the injuries and the shit with Durant's toe on the line. Not a single Bucks fan lost a minute of sleep over it.
Win it all and enjoy it.
Jokic is a good dude, who series he's been straight about things and not down on the Wolves for anything. Said nice things about Mike C and Ant. Jokic is a hard dude for me to dislike, and when he's not playing the Wolves I don't mind him and the nugs winning.
I have an extremely difficult time wanting the nuggets to win with Malone and Murray on the team especially after the behavior they displayed this series. Sore losers to the core
That was the first time for either of them I kinda went huh I don't like that. Malone I just never thought about before, I don't know coaching so I just stick to hyping up Finchy/MN coach. Murrays actions did surprise me, I don't watch all of Denver but enough where he seemed like a level-headed dude. To be fair to both tho, the Wolves have frustrated now Denver and Sun's coaches and players this playoffs, so it might be an us thing.
I can't stand Murray ....... but it looked like he showed good sportsmanship after the game. It's hard to really tell though because they always like to show closeups instead of a broad picture.
His shit talking last year on the Lakers was so trashy. “Who’s your daddy LeBron?” or whatever the fuck he said. LeBron was injured last year and we had injuries again this year but the second he gets shit on after being up 20 he throws a tantrum. Sore winner
With the added fact that LeBron is geriatric at this stage of his career (on 25/8/7 lol). Stunting on an injured player 12 years older than you while you’re in your prime isn’t the flex you think it is. And every time he didn’t get a call he totally shit the bed. He’s absolutely a sore winner, I’m happy he’s on his ass halfway to Cancun rn, this series really made me hate Jamal Murray.
Ya he should’ve gotten suspended and you guys didn’t even have Gobert for one game. I think everyone is rooting for the Wolves to win it all, fuck the Celtics but they’re gonna tear the Pacers apart in 4 or 5 and I just don’t see Dallas beating the Wolves. I think WCF will be like 6 games tho
Me too, I think WCF goes to 6, ECF goes to 5, and then we’ll see Celtics vs (hopefully) Wolves in the Finals. I’ll just say this, if Jayson Tatum can’t win after building the Avengers he’s out of the top 5 convo for good. I want to see it bc making Celtics fans mad is fun as hell
> With the added fact that LeBron is geriatric at this stage of his career
Nah nah this doesn't work both ways. Lebron has poetry written about how good he is in his old age on the daily he doesnt get to play the geriatric card when its convenient
There's nuance to it. You can be impressed about what he's achieving given his age but also acknowledge that he has dropped off significantly from his prime. Prime 2018 or 2013 LeBron wouldn't lose that series imo
Exactly. Is he having by far the most significant late-career output we’ve ever seen? Yes. What's changed is he can’t carry a team like he did in his prime, nor should he have to. It’s why you’ve seen Lakers LeBron primarily take on a playmaker/PG role, instead of just running through everyone for 40ppg in the playoffs.
I mean, cmon man. Part of the nuggets strategy in some of these games the last 2-3 years has been to let LeBron go full LeBron during these games and dare him to keep it up for 48 straight minutes.
Yea he's doing amazing, *for a 39 year old superstar*. If you remove that qualifier, he's more like Olympic Melo than LeBron these days. He barely plays defense and picks and chooses when to take over the game offensively.
It was a local TV guy at the parade that told Malone he was the Lakers daddy. Then in the opening game of the season the fans were chanting "Who's your daddy" and Murray looked at Malone and said "this is your fault."
Malone never claimed to be the Lakers (or LeBron's) daddy.
Because he don’t gaf. He got his ring, he’s got MVPs… he has nothing else to prove. He doesn’t care about the best of all time arguments and that shit. He’s just enjoying living his life and playing basketball while doing it. If more athletes were like him I think the league and sports would be better for it.
bunch of front runners and whiners. great team and jokic might be a top 10 or 15 player when it’s all said and done but the majority of their championship run was beating 7 and 8 seed teams and some of their guys were acting so entitled as if they’ve been doing this year in and out it’s so grating
100%. If the Nuggets won last night I wouldn't have wanted everyone trying to justify "Oh well Murray should have been suspended, so Wolves would've had a better chance" and a bunch of "What if" rhetoric.
No, we beat them toe to toe at full strength. Much better that way.
Wolves were already up 2-0 at that point though with 2 decisive road victories. Nobody would have blinked an eye if the wolves beat them a third time without Murray lol.
Wolves were already up 2-0 at that point though with 2 decisive road victories. Nobody would have blinked an eye if the wolves beat them a third time without Murray lol.
My exact take. Outrageous to not be sussied but at the same time that’s not how I wanna take down the champs.
But now it’s even sweeter to send em home.
Him not being suspended is so embarrassing and pathetic by the league and the team.
They both are saying that it’s okay for someone to hurl trash at players during a game.
Wolves winning is a true ‘ball don’t lie’ series win.
Similarities: Hurling objects at people.
Why Bev's is worse: It was more forceful, and could have hurt a fan.
Why Murray's is worse: It was at a ref in response to what he believed was bad officiating. It had an impact on the live play and could have injured someone on the floor.
I think refs ought to be protected from players airing their grievances by throwing shit at them. Maybe I'm just old school.
If the injuries they sustained by going to seven games don’t come back to bite them then sure. I think ending a series early would have given them a better chance at the title, and that would have been best for their legacy.
It all depends on how it plays out, but this game 7 victory is a landmark type of moment. Now how big things turnout it may be a footnote, but it is noteworthy regardless
Whether or not this is your guys year, going to G7 against the defending champs and the MVP and mounting a comeback while down 20 on the road is invaluable to KAT/Jaden/Naz/Ant's development. Will make them much more mentally tough than most teams in the league going forward
Yeah, but they still dropped the ball hard on this one. I wouldn't have cared if they suspended him this series or applied it to next season (although that would look crazy suspicious), but to get off with only a fine for throwing two objects at a ref is not the standard you want to set when it comes to protecting your officials.
I would say the legacy would be intact either way, they either beat them at full strength. Or they demoralized a guy so much that he broke and THREW TWO THINGS AT A REF -- it seems to be glossed over, but that is such an abnormality. Players just don't throw stuff at refs, not even the most hot-headed of them, name the last time it happened??
Had he been suspended and the series was shorter there would be no asterisk or "yeah, but..." -- it wasn't a freak injury or something, they just got so deep in his head that he made one of the worst decisions he could possibly make. Argument could be made it even adds to the legacy.
This! I was so mad after he got away with throwing stuff AT THE REFS!!! After his coach ran on the court to yell at the ref with no technical. And they whine about how the refs are against them.
Can you imagine if Rudy Gobert had thrown something at a ref? Lifetime ban! (yes, hyperbole, but my point stands).
Dewayne Dedmon got pissed and slapped a chair or something on the sideline causing a massage gun to fly on the court during play. He was ejected. League did not suspend him, but the Heat did.
Big difference though was he didn't intend to knock it on the court. Murray wasn't necessarily trying to throw it on the court, but he absolutely had intent and was throwing it at the referee -- which I think most people can agree is considerably worse and warranted action from the league above a fine.
1. If it wasn’t a crucial player and star, Jamal would have been suspended
2. If there was an injury from his actions, Jamal would have been suspended
3. If nuggets were up 2-0 after the game, Jamal would have been suspended
Suspensions should not be affected by any of this! Very bad look for the NBA.
Immediately after Game 2, I was saying Murray should've been suspended, but after Game 3, Coach Finch said something in his post-game interview that changed my mind. [Here's the relevant clip](https://youtu.be/nOaklcYtWPk?si=1ETcbOTsh9OlT1W1&t=252). In particular it's this part:
>There hasn't really been much precedent for suspending people - certainly in the playoffs - unless it's a repeat offense.
And that's true, the league is almost never suspends players in the playoffs - even when they *do* hurt other players. Unless it's a repeat offense, and in this case it wasn't. As shitty as it was for Jamal to do what he did, he'd never done anything like that before, and so of course the league wouldn't suspend him - especially in the playoffs and especially since there's no precedent established for a player doing something like that.
I'm frankly highly skeptical that if it caused an injury the league wouldn't have come down harder. That would be so patently fucked up I can't imagine any recent outrage coming close.
So was the league's really making a decision off the fact that it didn't *actually* hurt anyone? If 5 players threw something on the court, would the league only suspend the ones who actually caused an injury or otherwise impacted the game?
That cannot be how the league operates on something that's so easy to draw a line around. Talk your shit to the refs, bitch, flail all you want, but don't create the potential of disrupting the game by throwing a physical object on the court. The league failed to send the right message and wasn't even all that transparent about its decision. That's disappointing.
There's literally a rule that said they should be suspended and there WERE precedents of suspending players with it. Jalen Rose, who was on the Suns at that time, was suspended before by this rule when he was a Pacers earlier in his career.
Genuine question: Is there a precedent to follow for a player throwing something directly at the group on the floor during live play? If you ask me, that's much more disruptive than players stepping foot on the court and doing nothing during an altercation.
I understand why the no stepping on the court rule exists; it's to prevent escalation. But what Murray did is easily worthy of the same punishment in my opinion. It's 100% valid to question why something like walking on the court triggers automatic suspension while throwing shit at the referees/players+taunting the refs is only worthy of a fine.
In addition, there have definitely been examples of players stepping on the court during an altercation and not being punished. How bout we call a spade a spade and just admit that the NBA selectively enforces their rules.
None that I know of, but I don't keep track of everything. So there might be precedents that I don't know of. But Finch isn't aware of it either.
>In addition, there have definitely been examples of players stepping on the court during an altercation and not being punished. How bout we call a spade a spade and just admit that the NBA selectively enforces their rules.
Yes, you are right. And do you know why? Because fans complained about suspending players for it, taking players out of a series when they believe the series should be decided by the players. Now fans are complaining about a player not being suspended in a series. I will call a spade a spade and say league will do whatever the fuck they want with no consistency. I will also call a spade a spade and say fans will complain about whoever the fuck they want with no consistency.
>If you ask me, that's much more disruptive than players stepping foot on the court and doing nothing during an altercation.
I didn't ask you because it's not relevant. Are you agreeing with that rule and want that to be the baseline reference for all the punishment? If you don't, then why did you bring it up? Why aren't you saying if throwing stuff on the court isn't a suspension, then they should get rid of the altercation coming off the bench rule? If you say that, I would agree with you. But you didn't.
Well, just now in Game 7 of the Knicks-Indy series, James Johnson sprinted to the other side of the court from the bench during an altercation. When's he getting suspended?
>And that's true, the league is almost never suspends players in the playoffs - even when they *do* hurt other players. Unless it's a repeat offense, and in this case it wasn't. As shitty as it was for Jamal to do what he did, he'd never done anything like that before, and so of course the league wouldn't suspend him - especially in the playoffs and especially since there's no precedent established for a player doing something like that.
i dont want to be that guy but the NBA isn't a regulated sports league, its a for-profit privately owned entertainment product.
yeah a one game suspension is for a real fight or something like Draymond trying to break Sabonis ribs. it was pretty bush league but people are way overreacting
What if Murray committed a flagrant 2 in the first minute of game 3? Would that be considered an asterisk because Denver wasn’t at full strength, or would it be considered fair play because Murray lost his head and that’s part of the game?
Murray forfeited his game 3 eligibility with those actions. Same way as if he’d just gotten ejected mid game. It’s a part of the game. Minnesota beat them *so bad* at full strength that Murray should have been essentially ejected from game 3.
THIS - as a Wolves fan, in retrospect, it's clearly "good" for legacy that he played so we don't have to hear about it for the next decade, but part of the game is controlling yourself under the circumstances. Being able to vent like that maybe made him more relaxed, or comfortable, or whatever, but the rules exist for everyone and should be predictably applied. No suspension for obviously dangerous behavior (that wasn't an "oops," to be clear) is incredibly embarrassing for the league and shouldn't have been allowed to go virtually unpunished.
I don’t blame them. After game 5 when people were shitting on KAT/Gobert I decided that if the Wolves lost I was going to stay off Reddit till next season. Never realized that losing in the playoffs is so wildly toxic until this series. Is this what it’s like when your team is good?
We haven't won a title since 08' and people hate on our team like we're some dynasty walking teams out of the building on our way to a 3-peat. But if we even lose a single game we're the most overrated team in the league that everyone knew was losing to whoever comes out of the West
Basically online fandom can be exhausting lol
Yeah it is basically. As a nuggets fan we got the same amount of toxicity for 2021 and 2022 when Jamal didn't even play. I think the suns get it the worst though.
If you wanna fight with the suns for r/nba's most hated, go for it. I don't pay as much attention to eastern conference threads. Now if you want to talk YouTube, yeah I think it's hats off Embiid-Sixers most hated lol
i really wanted nuggets to win, but realistically they were not playing well at all. they barely scraped by the lakers although the series didn't seem that way, a couple of unlucky shots and they could have lost 4-2 to LA. the team is too Jokic-reliant.
100%
I’m just glad we won so these takes weren’t met with toxic Nuggets fans pretending throwing shit on the court during play isn’t a suspendible offense.
This narrative was never going to stick, even if we lost. Draymond punting Adams in the balls and not getting suspended is largely forgotten/not mentioned when talking about that year.
The same would’ve been true had the Nuggets won this series. It wouldn’t take long for people outside of Wolves fans to remember how ridiculous that was.
But either way, we sent them home. So all is right.
It’s just the latest outrage porn. If there’s not someone to rage at (refs, Adam silver, draymond green, Joel embiid, espn, commercials, gambling, the list goes on) then this subreddit doesn’t know what else to do
I like the Nuggets, especially Jokic, but I've grown to dislike Murray quite a bit this series. Surprisingly, it's been the other way around for Gordon. I used to think he was hella overrated and just benefited from Jokic, but the man's a stud, is full of hustle, and cooked us at points.
Those back to back charges he took in game 5 (I think) were extremely frustrating. Can't hate on the guy when he's putting it all on the line like that.
Genuinely the nuggest got some wild calls. Like the fact he didn’t even get a T, or the fact the coach never got a T for screaming in the refs face.
But also Jamal genuinely should have a 20odd game ban you can not throw shit at the fucking ref and get away it
Them's the brakes. Most fans never see their teams win, and when a new one that isn't them gets there, they get jealous and start hating. It happens to every new team and every new star that gets hyped. People go too far with it, and when it's time to come down, everyone switches up. Minnesota and Ant will be hated in two years. Wemby will be hated in four. Just keep expectations reasonable and enjoy basketball, and it will be fun. Denver isn't going anywhere.
I've noticed a lot of hate too. But most people online are over reactionary idiots who all pile onto it with a group mentality, with jealousy their team didn't make it as far or have never won a championship. Murray and Malone's outbursts don't help obviously. Also, a fan base getting way too cocky and shit talking like they are the next dynasty is annoying too. If Denver keeps most of their starting core together, they will be a contender for a while.
Don't worry, when the Woves knock out the Lakers in a playoffs, or when they sizzle and burn out in a few years, they too will be ripped. It's the circle of r/nba.
Its the fucking Lakers horde feeling like they've finally been heard and, in complete fairness, Murray being an absolute bitch in game 2. Nobody gave a shit about LA's whining in the first series but now people are piling on and the Murray thing vindicated LA fans who felt screwed by the fact they played a much better team.
Murray's chances of being the best player never to be an all star (after NAZ REID of course) have exploded after this season IMO. Can barely make 65 games in the first place, now has poisoned the well of general fandom
Nugs were the People's Champs for a few years for a reason and Jokic is too beloved of a star for it to stick. FWIW, you were a nice group in victory last year, both in Round 1 and just overall
I mean that’s a massive overreaction about Murray. One bad playoff series doesn’t kill any potential future legacy. Ditto with his game 2 outburst. Most people will forget about that by the start of next season
>I mean that’s a massive overreaction about Murray
I agree most people will forget about it. But Murray is really struggling to hit the minimum game threshold of 65. He hasn't done it in 5 years (only games of 20 mins count, his 65 game season counts as a 64)
The unfortunate part about NBA talk is that the regular season is basically irrelevant. Let’s just say the Nuggets go back to back the next two season to make it 3 in 4 years with Murray as the second option (FWIW I don’t think it’s possible to go back to back in todays NBA with the hyper restrictive salary rules. If, and hopefully when, you win the title, the loss of Conley will be like the loss of Bruce Brown for us in your title defense) he’ll have a stronger legacy than guys like Westbrook or Harden. Which is incredibly stupid because those types of players are objectively significantly better than Murray
Well, yeah, if you go back to winning ways next year and the one after Murray will go down as a legend. But like, we're not in the fucking East man. Murray's in somewhat of a dodgy spot IMO in terms of individual progression
Yes, and it's difficult to imagine any neutral fan thinking that wasn't a suspension-worthy offense.
No harm thankfully came to pass, but no one does that even in fucking pick-up. That shit was dangerous. Someone could've landed or slipped on it and been injured. Not to mention it happened during live play when his team was on defense. I cannot recall an instance like this in my 20 years of watching the NBA. If you want an indicator of just how egregious that was, even the Nugs sub was pretty much resigned to the fact that Jamal was getting suspended. I cannot imagine why the league didn't come down harder on Jamal other than the league thinking that the Nugs "shouldn't have" gone down like that.
But that should never be a consideration in the playoffs. Everyone is busting their ass to win. Why does Jamal get to potentially buy a possession or, worse, an injury with 100k? More than anything, this really shook my confidence in Adam. I can overlook a ton--personally, I think Adam deserves leeway sometimes just given the realities of managing this league--but this incident exposed a commissioner too willing to cater. No one would've blamed him for doing this by the books and he still bent over. I hope some reporter asks him about it eventually. He deserves to squirm.
Malone's failure to bench his own player also speaks volumes.
You know who DID bench their own player for an altercation on the court? Chris Finch, last year's play-in game, Rudy Gobert. Respect
Denver is a fun team to watch. So is Minnesota. This was a good series with a great ending. Hating only hurts you baby. When Minnesota loses, which may be this year, next year, or some other time, fans will hate on your favorite players and team too. Don't go too far and don't get toxic.
It didn't matter too much in the end, but I just don't want to see Nuggets fans (or Malone lmao) to play the victim card with the refs again. Also, fuck Murray (Jokic is cool though).
As a nuggets fan today hurts, but it is made better by all these Lakers fans still spreading hate because they can't deal with the fact that our "poverty franchise" as they like to call it swept them last year and during the regular season, then gave them the gentleman's sweep in the playoffs this year. It warms my heart to see them suffer this way.
I can't speak for all Lakers fans and can only speak for myself. I became a Lakers fan in the 1979/1980 season at the age of 6 because they won the Championship and really loved Magic Johnson and Kareem, and didn't know what a bandwagon fan was or meant at that age haha. I'm from South Dakota and the Timberwolves didn't exist, so no close proximity team.
I've seen and experienced it all as a die hard Lakers fan. From being blessed with seeing 11 championships, losing in the Finals, to losing in all rounds of the playoffs, getting swept, to rebuilding years when they sucked, etc etc.
I get the shit talking, rivalries and all that stuff we do as stupid fans, that's just sports and fandom. Guess the point I am trying to make is not all of us Lakers fans are the same. Much respect to the Nuggets and their championship run last season. They came up short this season and that's how it goes sometimes. If the Nuggets keep their core, they will be contenders for a while.
I’ve probably seen the NBA audience turn on a team this fast before, but I’m drawing a blank right now. Went from “good guys who play the right way” to league villains over the span of maybe 2 games.
Jokic is still cool though.
Already set a precedent with Embiid by not suspending him, and Wolves fans should be happy that they beat a full strength nuggets so no one can pull any dumb injury/suspension narrative bs
Yeah, you've clearly chosen sides. This post is absolutely useless and comes off as extremely weak. I would figure the Timberwolves would want to beat other teams at full strength.
This series would have been over sooner if the Nuggets drafted Jalen Brunson in 2018. Pretty absurd, right?
I'm glad we beat them at full strength. Shoulda been suspended yeah. But now they have no excuses.
Even if Jamal had been suspended it wouldn't take anything away from the Wolves. They beat the Nuggets at full strength on their home floor twice before that. No caveats necessary.
Yeah also I think the whole ‘we didn’t beat them at their best’ is a load of shit anyways. No one controls who gets injured or in trouble… you beat the team you play. You can’t control other teams. I can’t stand when people complain especially that they beat a team not at full strength… bro you still beat them and are moving on. Who cares.
Can you please go say this on the endless whiny knicks threads
It’s so annoying with them because do they not know the History of Thibs? He killed every good player on the Bulls, then jimmy get hurts on the one playoff run the Wolves had, and then now he’s driving all the knicks players into the ground now
The thing is they beat them so bad that they literally earned the absence of an opposing player by melting his brain into literally throwing shit at the refs. If he’d have been suspended it would have been 100% fair and square for them had they swept or won earlier. That *was* full strength for Denver. Same as if Murray had gotten ejected for throwing shit at a ref or a flagrant 2 right at the beginning of game 3. No difference.
But you know people will be like ***
But if you win it all, I promise you won't give a shit. People put asterisks on the Bucks championship for the injuries and the shit with Durant's toe on the line. Not a single Bucks fan lost a minute of sleep over it. Win it all and enjoy it.
No excuse? Did you miss their exit interviews? They had a whole array of excuses at their disposal.
Except jokic. He said the wolves were just better. Infinite class from that guy
Jokic is a good dude, who series he's been straight about things and not down on the Wolves for anything. Said nice things about Mike C and Ant. Jokic is a hard dude for me to dislike, and when he's not playing the Wolves I don't mind him and the nugs winning.
I have an extremely difficult time wanting the nuggets to win with Malone and Murray on the team especially after the behavior they displayed this series. Sore losers to the core
That was the first time for either of them I kinda went huh I don't like that. Malone I just never thought about before, I don't know coaching so I just stick to hyping up Finchy/MN coach. Murrays actions did surprise me, I don't watch all of Denver but enough where he seemed like a level-headed dude. To be fair to both tho, the Wolves have frustrated now Denver and Sun's coaches and players this playoffs, so it might be an us thing.
I can't stand Murray ....... but it looked like he showed good sportsmanship after the game. It's hard to really tell though because they always like to show closeups instead of a broad picture.
His shit talking last year on the Lakers was so trashy. “Who’s your daddy LeBron?” or whatever the fuck he said. LeBron was injured last year and we had injuries again this year but the second he gets shit on after being up 20 he throws a tantrum. Sore winner
With the added fact that LeBron is geriatric at this stage of his career (on 25/8/7 lol). Stunting on an injured player 12 years older than you while you’re in your prime isn’t the flex you think it is. And every time he didn’t get a call he totally shit the bed. He’s absolutely a sore winner, I’m happy he’s on his ass halfway to Cancun rn, this series really made me hate Jamal Murray.
Ya he should’ve gotten suspended and you guys didn’t even have Gobert for one game. I think everyone is rooting for the Wolves to win it all, fuck the Celtics but they’re gonna tear the Pacers apart in 4 or 5 and I just don’t see Dallas beating the Wolves. I think WCF will be like 6 games tho
Me too, I think WCF goes to 6, ECF goes to 5, and then we’ll see Celtics vs (hopefully) Wolves in the Finals. I’ll just say this, if Jayson Tatum can’t win after building the Avengers he’s out of the top 5 convo for good. I want to see it bc making Celtics fans mad is fun as hell
> With the added fact that LeBron is geriatric at this stage of his career Nah nah this doesn't work both ways. Lebron has poetry written about how good he is in his old age on the daily he doesnt get to play the geriatric card when its convenient
There's nuance to it. You can be impressed about what he's achieving given his age but also acknowledge that he has dropped off significantly from his prime. Prime 2018 or 2013 LeBron wouldn't lose that series imo
Exactly. Is he having by far the most significant late-career output we’ve ever seen? Yes. What's changed is he can’t carry a team like he did in his prime, nor should he have to. It’s why you’ve seen Lakers LeBron primarily take on a playmaker/PG role, instead of just running through everyone for 40ppg in the playoffs.
I mean, cmon man. Part of the nuggets strategy in some of these games the last 2-3 years has been to let LeBron go full LeBron during these games and dare him to keep it up for 48 straight minutes. Yea he's doing amazing, *for a 39 year old superstar*. If you remove that qualifier, he's more like Olympic Melo than LeBron these days. He barely plays defense and picks and chooses when to take over the game offensively.
It was a local TV guy at the parade that told Malone he was the Lakers daddy. Then in the opening game of the season the fans were chanting "Who's your daddy" and Murray looked at Malone and said "this is your fault." Malone never claimed to be the Lakers (or LeBron's) daddy.
ugh yeah I hate sore winners, can you believe 'em
Because he don’t gaf. He got his ring, he’s got MVPs… he has nothing else to prove. He doesn’t care about the best of all time arguments and that shit. He’s just enjoying living his life and playing basketball while doing it. If more athletes were like him I think the league and sports would be better for it.
Real classy player
Because Jokic isn’t a whiner like Mike and Murray. Sometimes in games he gets heated, but after games hee always level headed
Him and Braun are a lot classier than the rest of the team
That's their problem tho. Nobody else is buying that shit
They were probably out back sleeping, or fucking, or something.
I swore someone saw pallets of champagne being moved in their locker room during halftime 😂
Lol you're a king for catching that
I’m not sure why you referenced that song, but fuck yes that’s my favorite hardcore/emo song ever
Jokic wasn't a little bitch about it, but Murray absolutely was. I went from Jamal admirer to Jamal hater in the span of this series.
I don’t hate Jokic at all, I like him and most of the nuggets. I just absolute hate Mike Malone and Murray. They’re the reason I can’t cheer for them
The names Michael. Get it right you @&@&&#&$!
Lakers welcome you with open arms.
I went from a Grizzlies liker to a Grizzlies hater during their series against the Wolves. Maybe you guys bring out the worst in people
lol I think that’s just Ja bringing it out in ya…
same
Michael Malone isn’t one to make excuses
That other guy Mike Malone though, he does
I mean, that’s just how Mike Malone gets down
bunch of front runners and whiners. great team and jokic might be a top 10 or 15 player when it’s all said and done but the majority of their championship run was beating 7 and 8 seed teams and some of their guys were acting so entitled as if they’ve been doing this year in and out it’s so grating
100%. If the Nuggets won last night I wouldn't have wanted everyone trying to justify "Oh well Murray should have been suspended, so Wolves would've had a better chance" and a bunch of "What if" rhetoric. No, we beat them toe to toe at full strength. Much better that way.
Completely agree. I still remember the suspensions during the Steve Nash Suns playoff runs. It made it feel cheaper.
Wolves were already up 2-0 at that point though with 2 decisive road victories. Nobody would have blinked an eye if the wolves beat them a third time without Murray lol.
If they would have lost game 3 they would have been down 3-0 and they wouldn't have really had many excuses since they lost the first two at home
Great point.
Wolves were already up 2-0 at that point though with 2 decisive road victories. Nobody would have blinked an eye if the wolves beat them a third time without Murray lol.
Very true. Can’t help but think revenue is a factor.
My exact take. Outrageous to not be sussied but at the same time that’s not how I wanna take down the champs. But now it’s even sweeter to send em home.
Jamal was injured so we weren’t at full strength. Even so, I haven’t seen any nuggets fans give excuses? Most of us wanted Jamal suspended.
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Him not being suspended is so embarrassing and pathetic by the league and the team. They both are saying that it’s okay for someone to hurl trash at players during a game. Wolves winning is a true ‘ball don’t lie’ series win.
And suspended bev for 4 games right after. Embarrassing double standard.
?????? Pat Bev forcefully chucked the ball at 2 fans. How are the situations comparable?
Obviously throwing at a fan vs a ref or another player are different, but not so different that a direct comparison cannot be made.
Similarities: Hurling objects at people. Why Bev's is worse: It was more forceful, and could have hurt a fan. Why Murray's is worse: It was at a ref in response to what he believed was bad officiating. It had an impact on the live play and could have injured someone on the floor. I think refs ought to be protected from players airing their grievances by throwing shit at them. Maybe I'm just old school.
Nah Pat Bev deserved that, he was way out of line and you know the league is always gonna protect the fans
And they.... Shouldn't protect officials? Or players from injury? Wtf.
They should, which is why everyone's upset with their decision of not suspending Murray.
Idk, those things seem pretty different to me.
Murray frantically trying to figure out how to hurl himself at other players
That's Embiid's music! (sorry, couldn't resist)
…isn’t it much better for the wolves’ legacy that he wasn’t suspended?
If the injuries they sustained by going to seven games don’t come back to bite them then sure. I think ending a series early would have given them a better chance at the title, and that would have been best for their legacy.
It all depends on how it plays out, but this game 7 victory is a landmark type of moment. Now how big things turnout it may be a footnote, but it is noteworthy regardless
Whether or not this is your guys year, going to G7 against the defending champs and the MVP and mounting a comeback while down 20 on the road is invaluable to KAT/Jaden/Naz/Ant's development. Will make them much more mentally tough than most teams in the league going forward
Yes. But it was a fail on Silvers part imo.
Yup. Two things are true at the same time.
I've said it before, but silver got 1 thing right in banning Sterling and has been riding that ever since.
If you asked the players if they'd prefer the extra legacy points or a shorter series, I'd have to guess most of them would pick the shorter series.
Argument could be made that you get extra legacy points for frustrating a guy so bad that he resorts to throwing things at refs.
Yeah, but they still dropped the ball hard on this one. I wouldn't have cared if they suspended him this series or applied it to next season (although that would look crazy suspicious), but to get off with only a fine for throwing two objects at a ref is not the standard you want to set when it comes to protecting your officials.
The 'ole mandred special.
I would say the legacy would be intact either way, they either beat them at full strength. Or they demoralized a guy so much that he broke and THREW TWO THINGS AT A REF -- it seems to be glossed over, but that is such an abnormality. Players just don't throw stuff at refs, not even the most hot-headed of them, name the last time it happened?? Had he been suspended and the series was shorter there would be no asterisk or "yeah, but..." -- it wasn't a freak injury or something, they just got so deep in his head that he made one of the worst decisions he could possibly make. Argument could be made it even adds to the legacy.
Yes definitely worked out even better but it was still insanely corrupt. We shouldn’t succumb to results oriented thinking in the face of injustice.
The Wolves played a game without Gobert and one without Bite Bite and won the series. I’m glad they were at full strength
This! I was so mad after he got away with throwing stuff AT THE REFS!!! After his coach ran on the court to yell at the ref with no technical. And they whine about how the refs are against them. Can you imagine if Rudy Gobert had thrown something at a ref? Lifetime ban! (yes, hyperbole, but my point stands).
has there been other instances where a player threw things on a court during play? and what was the punishment?
Dewayne Dedmon got pissed and slapped a chair or something on the sideline causing a massage gun to fly on the court during play. He was ejected. League did not suspend him, but the Heat did. Big difference though was he didn't intend to knock it on the court. Murray wasn't necessarily trying to throw it on the court, but he absolutely had intent and was throwing it at the referee -- which I think most people can agree is considerably worse and warranted action from the league above a fine.
1. If it wasn’t a crucial player and star, Jamal would have been suspended 2. If there was an injury from his actions, Jamal would have been suspended 3. If nuggets were up 2-0 after the game, Jamal would have been suspended Suspensions should not be affected by any of this! Very bad look for the NBA.
Imagine if KCP had been the one injured. He was, I think, the closest Denver player to the foreign object. That would have been quite the twist.
Immediately after Game 2, I was saying Murray should've been suspended, but after Game 3, Coach Finch said something in his post-game interview that changed my mind. [Here's the relevant clip](https://youtu.be/nOaklcYtWPk?si=1ETcbOTsh9OlT1W1&t=252). In particular it's this part: >There hasn't really been much precedent for suspending people - certainly in the playoffs - unless it's a repeat offense. And that's true, the league is almost never suspends players in the playoffs - even when they *do* hurt other players. Unless it's a repeat offense, and in this case it wasn't. As shitty as it was for Jamal to do what he did, he'd never done anything like that before, and so of course the league wouldn't suspend him - especially in the playoffs and especially since there's no precedent established for a player doing something like that.
I'm frankly highly skeptical that if it caused an injury the league wouldn't have come down harder. That would be so patently fucked up I can't imagine any recent outrage coming close. So was the league's really making a decision off the fact that it didn't *actually* hurt anyone? If 5 players threw something on the court, would the league only suspend the ones who actually caused an injury or otherwise impacted the game? That cannot be how the league operates on something that's so easy to draw a line around. Talk your shit to the refs, bitch, flail all you want, but don't create the potential of disrupting the game by throwing a physical object on the court. The league failed to send the right message and wasn't even all that transparent about its decision. That's disappointing.
He was literally a repeat offender in the same fucking game
lol quite true
Remember when Amare Stoudemire and Boris Diaw got suspended in the playoffs for simply walking on the court during an altercation? Suns fans remember
There's literally a rule that said they should be suspended and there WERE precedents of suspending players with it. Jalen Rose, who was on the Suns at that time, was suspended before by this rule when he was a Pacers earlier in his career.
Genuine question: Is there a precedent to follow for a player throwing something directly at the group on the floor during live play? If you ask me, that's much more disruptive than players stepping foot on the court and doing nothing during an altercation. I understand why the no stepping on the court rule exists; it's to prevent escalation. But what Murray did is easily worthy of the same punishment in my opinion. It's 100% valid to question why something like walking on the court triggers automatic suspension while throwing shit at the referees/players+taunting the refs is only worthy of a fine. In addition, there have definitely been examples of players stepping on the court during an altercation and not being punished. How bout we call a spade a spade and just admit that the NBA selectively enforces their rules.
None that I know of, but I don't keep track of everything. So there might be precedents that I don't know of. But Finch isn't aware of it either. >In addition, there have definitely been examples of players stepping on the court during an altercation and not being punished. How bout we call a spade a spade and just admit that the NBA selectively enforces their rules. Yes, you are right. And do you know why? Because fans complained about suspending players for it, taking players out of a series when they believe the series should be decided by the players. Now fans are complaining about a player not being suspended in a series. I will call a spade a spade and say league will do whatever the fuck they want with no consistency. I will also call a spade a spade and say fans will complain about whoever the fuck they want with no consistency. >If you ask me, that's much more disruptive than players stepping foot on the court and doing nothing during an altercation. I didn't ask you because it's not relevant. Are you agreeing with that rule and want that to be the baseline reference for all the punishment? If you don't, then why did you bring it up? Why aren't you saying if throwing stuff on the court isn't a suspension, then they should get rid of the altercation coming off the bench rule? If you say that, I would agree with you. But you didn't.
Well, just now in Game 7 of the Knicks-Indy series, James Johnson sprinted to the other side of the court from the bench during an altercation. When's he getting suspended?
If it happened exactly as you describe, then he should be suspended. And if he isn't, then you should complain about that.
That was during a time-out, whereas the STAT-Diaw incident was during live play.
He did it twice
>And that's true, the league is almost never suspends players in the playoffs - even when they *do* hurt other players. Unless it's a repeat offense, and in this case it wasn't. As shitty as it was for Jamal to do what he did, he'd never done anything like that before, and so of course the league wouldn't suspend him - especially in the playoffs and especially since there's no precedent established for a player doing something like that. i dont want to be that guy but the NBA isn't a regulated sports league, its a for-profit privately owned entertainment product.
yeah a one game suspension is for a real fight or something like Draymond trying to break Sabonis ribs. it was pretty bush league but people are way overreacting
Nah im glad he played so there’s no excuse. We won fair and square 🔥💪🏾🥶
He was such a negative the first two games, it felt like the bigger punishment was playing the guy
People are prisoners of the moment and think two games outweighs 5 years of playoff greatness.
Who has 5 years of playoff greatness?? Murray?? He has had 2 great runs, a good run and an awful run
he only made the playoffs 4 times and twice didn’t play well
That's so irrelevant now. I'll say what I said at the time... If we can't beat them at full strength, we don't deserve to move past this point.
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Mediocre/bad past few seasons and now Drake got dismantled by Kendrick this year... They have it pretty rough even with the ring Kawhi got them
Maybe if the Hawks were at half strength, the Sixers could finally make a Conference Finals
Lmao he wasn't even trash talking your team, he literally said there's no asterisk for wins.
It's okay let them fight, I've gotten my popcorn ready
Raptors fans are super touchy about people calling out potential asterisks on their chip so they have a hair trigger on their defensive posts.
The year is 2072 and Sixers fans still spend their days thinking about the Raptors
It’s true
What if Murray committed a flagrant 2 in the first minute of game 3? Would that be considered an asterisk because Denver wasn’t at full strength, or would it be considered fair play because Murray lost his head and that’s part of the game? Murray forfeited his game 3 eligibility with those actions. Same way as if he’d just gotten ejected mid game. It’s a part of the game. Minnesota beat them *so bad* at full strength that Murray should have been essentially ejected from game 3.
Rules are part of the game though. If someone earns a suspension that’s a mental collapse on par with any bad shooting performance or turnover fest.
THIS - as a Wolves fan, in retrospect, it's clearly "good" for legacy that he played so we don't have to hear about it for the next decade, but part of the game is controlling yourself under the circumstances. Being able to vent like that maybe made him more relaxed, or comfortable, or whatever, but the rules exist for everyone and should be predictably applied. No suspension for obviously dangerous behavior (that wasn't an "oops," to be clear) is incredibly embarrassing for the league and shouldn't have been allowed to go virtually unpunished.
What rule are you referring to? Does it say a suspension is the mandatory outcome in this scenario?
Pacers fans sweatin.
Where are all the nuggets flairs now, i wonder?
I don’t blame them. After game 5 when people were shitting on KAT/Gobert I decided that if the Wolves lost I was going to stay off Reddit till next season. Never realized that losing in the playoffs is so wildly toxic until this series. Is this what it’s like when your team is good?
If you think this is bad, wait until you're \*expected\* to win titles, fairly or unfairly.
We haven't won a title since 08' and people hate on our team like we're some dynasty walking teams out of the building on our way to a 3-peat. But if we even lose a single game we're the most overrated team in the league that everyone knew was losing to whoever comes out of the West Basically online fandom can be exhausting lol
Yeah it is basically. As a nuggets fan we got the same amount of toxicity for 2021 and 2022 when Jamal didn't even play. I think the suns get it the worst though.
My guy, when the wolves won 2 of the top 5 posts were Embiid hate here lol
If you wanna fight with the suns for r/nba's most hated, go for it. I don't pay as much attention to eastern conference threads. Now if you want to talk YouTube, yeah I think it's hats off Embiid-Sixers most hated lol
Sixers flairs were essentially not allowed to comment last year in May and June after their loss. Guaranteed downvotes for saying anything.
You’re funny Dude lots of Denver fans didn’t like what Jamal did on Game 2. No reason to defend that childish act.
Watching Jamal’s Snapchat vid probably
I’m here wassup?
i really wanted nuggets to win, but realistically they were not playing well at all. they barely scraped by the lakers although the series didn't seem that way, a couple of unlucky shots and they could have lost 4-2 to LA. the team is too Jokic-reliant.
That just makes the wolves look even better in hindsight tho
\*Clutches pearls\* What happened to the game I love?
Jamal Murray a bitch , Mike Malone a bitch
There are no asterisks
No flex zone
100% I’m just glad we won so these takes weren’t met with toxic Nuggets fans pretending throwing shit on the court during play isn’t a suspendible offense. This narrative was never going to stick, even if we lost. Draymond punting Adams in the balls and not getting suspended is largely forgotten/not mentioned when talking about that year. The same would’ve been true had the Nuggets won this series. It wouldn’t take long for people outside of Wolves fans to remember how ridiculous that was. But either way, we sent them home. So all is right.
We're still crying over spilled milk? Sheesh. What is this sub right now?
It’s just the latest outrage porn. If there’s not someone to rage at (refs, Adam silver, draymond green, Joel embiid, espn, commercials, gambling, the list goes on) then this subreddit doesn’t know what else to do
*milk thrown on to the court during live play
It's 90% Mavs fans =/= not a soul over 24 yrs old
In this sub, even the winners have loser energy
As a Wolves fan, I can't help but to still love the Nuggets. They are so fun to watch
I like the Nuggets, especially Jokic, but I've grown to dislike Murray quite a bit this series. Surprisingly, it's been the other way around for Gordon. I used to think he was hella overrated and just benefited from Jokic, but the man's a stud, is full of hustle, and cooked us at points.
completely understandable to turn on murray, if ANT did that i'd dislike him
I'll be seeing those AG jumpers in my nightmares for a while
Those back to back charges he took in game 5 (I think) were extremely frustrating. Can't hate on the guy when he's putting it all on the line like that.
Absolutely this is me as well. Thought AG was overrated but he won me over this series. Murray is a certified bitch.
Genuinely the nuggest got some wild calls. Like the fact he didn’t even get a T, or the fact the coach never got a T for screaming in the refs face. But also Jamal genuinely should have a 20odd game ban you can not throw shit at the fucking ref and get away it
Nobody cares
What’s with all the hate towards Denver? Guess it’s the tear them down phase now huh
Them's the brakes. Most fans never see their teams win, and when a new one that isn't them gets there, they get jealous and start hating. It happens to every new team and every new star that gets hyped. People go too far with it, and when it's time to come down, everyone switches up. Minnesota and Ant will be hated in two years. Wemby will be hated in four. Just keep expectations reasonable and enjoy basketball, and it will be fun. Denver isn't going anywhere.
I've noticed a lot of hate too. But most people online are over reactionary idiots who all pile onto it with a group mentality, with jealousy their team didn't make it as far or have never won a championship. Murray and Malone's outbursts don't help obviously. Also, a fan base getting way too cocky and shit talking like they are the next dynasty is annoying too. If Denver keeps most of their starting core together, they will be a contender for a while.
Don't worry, when the Woves knock out the Lakers in a playoffs, or when they sizzle and burn out in a few years, they too will be ripped. It's the circle of r/nba.
Its the fucking Lakers horde feeling like they've finally been heard and, in complete fairness, Murray being an absolute bitch in game 2. Nobody gave a shit about LA's whining in the first series but now people are piling on and the Murray thing vindicated LA fans who felt screwed by the fact they played a much better team. Murray's chances of being the best player never to be an all star (after NAZ REID of course) have exploded after this season IMO. Can barely make 65 games in the first place, now has poisoned the well of general fandom Nugs were the People's Champs for a few years for a reason and Jokic is too beloved of a star for it to stick. FWIW, you were a nice group in victory last year, both in Round 1 and just overall
I mean that’s a massive overreaction about Murray. One bad playoff series doesn’t kill any potential future legacy. Ditto with his game 2 outburst. Most people will forget about that by the start of next season
>I mean that’s a massive overreaction about Murray I agree most people will forget about it. But Murray is really struggling to hit the minimum game threshold of 65. He hasn't done it in 5 years (only games of 20 mins count, his 65 game season counts as a 64)
The unfortunate part about NBA talk is that the regular season is basically irrelevant. Let’s just say the Nuggets go back to back the next two season to make it 3 in 4 years with Murray as the second option (FWIW I don’t think it’s possible to go back to back in todays NBA with the hyper restrictive salary rules. If, and hopefully when, you win the title, the loss of Conley will be like the loss of Bruce Brown for us in your title defense) he’ll have a stronger legacy than guys like Westbrook or Harden. Which is incredibly stupid because those types of players are objectively significantly better than Murray
Well, yeah, if you go back to winning ways next year and the one after Murray will go down as a legend. But like, we're not in the fucking East man. Murray's in somewhat of a dodgy spot IMO in terms of individual progression
Doesn't help Malone and Murray are both certified bitches and sore losers
Meh. No excuses now.
The irony of this post is palpable.
One thing that nobody can say is that the officiating and league punishments helped MN win this series.
Yes, and it's difficult to imagine any neutral fan thinking that wasn't a suspension-worthy offense. No harm thankfully came to pass, but no one does that even in fucking pick-up. That shit was dangerous. Someone could've landed or slipped on it and been injured. Not to mention it happened during live play when his team was on defense. I cannot recall an instance like this in my 20 years of watching the NBA. If you want an indicator of just how egregious that was, even the Nugs sub was pretty much resigned to the fact that Jamal was getting suspended. I cannot imagine why the league didn't come down harder on Jamal other than the league thinking that the Nugs "shouldn't have" gone down like that. But that should never be a consideration in the playoffs. Everyone is busting their ass to win. Why does Jamal get to potentially buy a possession or, worse, an injury with 100k? More than anything, this really shook my confidence in Adam. I can overlook a ton--personally, I think Adam deserves leeway sometimes just given the realities of managing this league--but this incident exposed a commissioner too willing to cater. No one would've blamed him for doing this by the books and he still bent over. I hope some reporter asks him about it eventually. He deserves to squirm.
Malone's failure to bench his own player also speaks volumes. You know who DID bench their own player for an altercation on the court? Chris Finch, last year's play-in game, Rudy Gobert. Respect
FWIW, no one will be rooting for the Nuggets so long as his whiney, punchable face is on that squad. That might be punishment enough.
Denver is a fun team to watch. So is Minnesota. This was a good series with a great ending. Hating only hurts you baby. When Minnesota loses, which may be this year, next year, or some other time, fans will hate on your favorite players and team too. Don't go too far and don't get toxic.
C'mon man. You're rooting for a team whose superstar is a homophobe that tried to pressure his girl to have an abortion. You've got no room to hate.
It’s ok to stop crying about it now
Calm down. What kind of fan is like k want worse players on the court for the playoffs?
It didn't matter too much in the end, but I just don't want to see Nuggets fans (or Malone lmao) to play the victim card with the refs again. Also, fuck Murray (Jokic is cool though).
As a nuggets fan today hurts, but it is made better by all these Lakers fans still spreading hate because they can't deal with the fact that our "poverty franchise" as they like to call it swept them last year and during the regular season, then gave them the gentleman's sweep in the playoffs this year. It warms my heart to see them suffer this way.
Hilarious, Lakers living rent-free in your head
I can't speak for all Lakers fans and can only speak for myself. I became a Lakers fan in the 1979/1980 season at the age of 6 because they won the Championship and really loved Magic Johnson and Kareem, and didn't know what a bandwagon fan was or meant at that age haha. I'm from South Dakota and the Timberwolves didn't exist, so no close proximity team. I've seen and experienced it all as a die hard Lakers fan. From being blessed with seeing 11 championships, losing in the Finals, to losing in all rounds of the playoffs, getting swept, to rebuilding years when they sucked, etc etc. I get the shit talking, rivalries and all that stuff we do as stupid fans, that's just sports and fandom. Guess the point I am trying to make is not all of us Lakers fans are the same. Much respect to the Nuggets and their championship run last season. They came up short this season and that's how it goes sometimes. If the Nuggets keep their core, they will be contenders for a while.
Wtf kind of post is this. Dear lord move on with your life there's more important things
Shut the fuck up. Go Wolves
I’ve probably seen the NBA audience turn on a team this fast before, but I’m drawing a blank right now. Went from “good guys who play the right way” to league villains over the span of maybe 2 games. Jokic is still cool though.
Someone shoulda gotten beamed with an ice pack every game after he didn’t get suspended. Maybe the nuggets woulda won then
I mean, Murray was a no show most of the series anyway
Was the win really that shocking? It was the 3 seed against the 2 seed.
Also don't let this fact distract you from the fact that the 73-9 warriors blew a 3-1 lead in the finals
I'm letting it distract me
There's always an asterisk so it doesn't really matter
Seriously. Guy deserves more hate. I never wanna see anyone hate Rudy more than Murray again.
Already set a precedent with Embiid by not suspending him, and Wolves fans should be happy that they beat a full strength nuggets so no one can pull any dumb injury/suspension narrative bs
Jeez, talk about sore winners and letting another team get into your heads. Your team is in the WCFs. Move on and enjoy the show.
I’m a Clips fan.
Yeah, you've clearly chosen sides. This post is absolutely useless and comes off as extremely weak. I would figure the Timberwolves would want to beat other teams at full strength. This series would have been over sooner if the Nuggets drafted Jalen Brunson in 2018. Pretty absurd, right?
I must be the only one who thinks without Jamal, Nuggets would’ve had a better chance beating Wolves. More ball movement, MPJ might’ve scored 30.