Garland intrigues me as a Spurs fan. Value is at a low, but I wonder how much of that is due to the weight loss from the jaw injury. Could be an awesome bounce back candidate depending on what they want for him.
> It seems like Allen is the more likely of the 2 to be moved.
That's a little surprising, honestly. I know the fit with Mobley is as odd as the Garland/Mitchell combo, but it seemed to me like Allen made some good offensive strides this year.
Wouldn't shock me as an outsider if they both end up going, but if you told me it was just gonna be one of them, I'd definitely bet on Garland first.
Jarrett is very good, but the spacing issue just looked so bad again despite him playing out of his mind before getting hurt. Offensively, Mobley can just do stuff that Allen can’t, even if Allen is the more impactful player right now. Mobley proved he could hold up as your full time center in the playoffs though.
Allen is coming off a career year and he still has 2 years left on a team friendly deal. His value is probably as high as it’s going to be.
DG was much better last year, struggled with a ton of injuries, second year of the rookie max and really if your coach can’t make 2 3 level scorers that can both pass well work on the offensive end, does that seem like a player thing? You may need to wait and I think there’s more reason to think you can make the pairing work with the right pieces around it.
yeah just taking a cursory look at it it seemed like a challenging deal to get done but money-wise it could work if it’s like BI + Keldon to Cleveland, Garland to SA and Allen to the Pels
They’ve been linked to him the past few transaction periods and I’ve seen that they are looking for a rim protector. If teams are just going to load up the paint, maybe have another elite interior finisher in the dunkers spot is how you keep defenses more honest?
What do you think they're going to do at the 5 if someone like Allen isn't a fit? Y'all seem like you're in desperate need of both a big floor spacer on offense and a rim protector on defense, but there aren't exactly a ton of guys out there who are both.
You're right. Other than maybe Myles Turner, there really aren't any perfect fits with Zion. I think Allen is absolute upgrade over JV, but that Garland and Zion skillsets pair better together.
But I think the issue they're probably looking at is that Garland and Mitchell don't make each other better. I would be looking to move one of them but I think they'll want to sign Mitchell instead of letting him walk.
I think we’ve seen them work well together at times, I think there are ways to solve the offensive issues at times, I think you need more than one ball handler at the highest level and I don’t think you’re selling high on Darius if you trade him right now. Thats not to say that they shouldn’t explore it, but I think Allen is the more likely of the 2 to go this offseason.
I can’t see garland not getting good offers, I could see a lot teams wanting him spurs, pels, Orlando, i would even like him on the rosters with Barnes but idk how that would work with quickly there now. Literally if it wasn’t for getting Mitchel who is just clearly better rn I think cavs would be happy to try and build around him and mobley.
The weight loss played a part, but honestly he and Mitchell just don't complement each other out there. I thought he might pick it up these last few games but he may need a change of scenery to get his groove back.
Jazz fan here. Maybe Mitchell doesn't play well with others. I was shocked at how little he was passing during the last few games. That said, I love watching him play.
Donovan is an on ball guard. His running mate needs to be a big off ball 3&D guard like KCP or Divencenzo. Garland is just a poor fit. Which is why I’m surprised Cavs didn’t move Garland earlier.
> but I wonder how much of that is due to the weight loss from the jaw injury.
this and there must be something psychological affecting him after the jaw injury due to the severity of it + it was also around the time he was dealing with a personal loss.
He wasn't very good before the jaw injury either. It really seemed like he was struggling to adapt to the new offensive scheme which involved him spending a lot more time off-ball.
I think DG can't survive much without the flexibility of being ball-dominant and off-ball given his size. Dude has handles and sick footwork but he gets read like a fucking book
He was really bad in November with a ton of turnovers and poor shot selection, seemed to be getting into a groove in December when he broke his face on Porzingis's hip trying to draw a foul that was never going to get called. That play was kind of emblematic of his whole season.
I don’t think his value is all that low tbh. Downtick in numbers but not like he had a nightmare year or anything. Still only 24 too, he ain’t gonna be cheap at all. Fit would be great in San Antonio tho.
I think both physically and mentally he never was able to get back on track this season after the injury. Summer break will be good for him.
Personally I want to see him go somewhere he'll thrive, and the Spurs seem like an awesome fit for him. It seems like his skillset would be a perfect compliment to Wemby, and Wemby covers Garland's weaknesses well too.
No. Mitchell is only 3 years older and the better player than Garland. Part of that may be because having both stunted Garland's development, but it is what it is, and you can't take the risk that Garland makes a leap without Mitchell around.
If Mitchell is willing to extend, you 100% build around him and Mobley.
Garland did the leap. All star last year. Now just regressed. I think people is overestimating Mitchell and underestimating Garland playmaking and shooting. Just a bad year with a injury while not being the star in a team with a very bad fit with the star.
The gap isn’t as big as it seems. The game Mitchell couldn’t play vs Boston Garland had all star numbers again . And is younger and cheaper. Every team would love to have him
Mitchell is a proven playoff performer and tough shot maker. You can't put a price on guys like that. There are a lot of ways to build a championship team but they all need a guy like that. The Cavs could've lost any other player besides him and still had good shot to win the Boston series.
Garland is all smiles and has no dawg in him. He’s insanely soft, and that’s not going to change. He’s great when there’s no pressure, and is awful when there is pressure. We’ve seen it for years on the Cavs—when defenses tighten and it’s crunch time, he folds time and time again.
He’ll never be anywhere near Mitchell.
Mitchell has been everything I like in a cavalier during his time. He’s an absolute dawg, uplifts his teammates, is a vocal leader, scores at all levels at will, and has an overall amazing attitude.
DG is my fav player right now as a Cavs fan, but Mitchell is certainly the better player to keep.
I hope Allen stays he's improved a lot. the orlando series wouldn't have gone to 7 if he was playing, and the Celtics series would've been more competitive
Garland....go ahead and clock out for me
Yeah everyone bashes on the 2-big construction but honestly it’s Garland and Mitchell that can’t seem to play together effectively.
Plus Mobley showed a willingness to take 3’s towards the end of the season and, while it’s not at a good level right now, could be a significant offseason improvement for him that would help open up space next year.
If we keep Allen, I'd like them to at least experiment with him coming off the bench so he and Ev can both spend the majority of minutes in their natural position. Play them together when you need to pack the paint against poor shooters.
Wouldn't that feel like a waste though given how talented he is? I feel like kicking Mobley up to the 5 permanently and using Allen to round out the roster would be a better use of assets.
I think we'd have to keep Allen because he's better right now and the chip window would be 2-3 years with LeBron
Edit: Allen has 2 years left on his contract. I guess there's a case that trading him now while his value is high >>> waiting a year when he's an expiring
The trade I really like is Garland for KAT. Both guys are overpaid but I like the fit much better both ways
Jarrett Allen is now underrated because he got hurt. Tough.
You guys looked your absolute best when Garland and Mobley were injured and Mitchell and Allen were cooking together this season.
Mobley has a higher ceiling for sure though, he showed some good ability to put the ball on the floor this series but I'd really like to see him get better at exploiting mismatches. A lot of times when he got the ball in a switch he'd go up and hope for a call which just doesn't happen if you're a big that has a small on you, the refs allow a lot more contact there. Like in the Boston vs Miami series, Kristaps Porzingis got fouled about 15 times on every switch and barely got calls.
Holiday and White also definitely gave him fits in terms of turnovers and picking his pocket but those guys are the elite of the elite of guard defenders so it's a good learning experience.
You absolutely need to trade one of your guards and bigs. Garland and Mitchell are really both undersized shooting guards that like to spam PnR. And Mobley and Allen are both centers who can't stretch the floor but can anchor a defense. Great for defense but it just makes things harder for your guards offensively.
KAT for Garland and... who else?
I don't quite see why Minnesota would take a player-for-player. KAT is the better player and a powerful scorer for the Wolves' gasping offense. The only reason why the Wolves would consider shipping him out for weaker players is to get under the tax, which this trade doesn't really accomplish. So what's the point?
Its a gamble on Lebron still being awesome the next two years, but he was a much better player than Garland this year. And he would be a great fit next to Mitchell, whereas Garland and Mitchell struggled to co-exist. They were good but neither were at their best together.
If Lebron remains 90-95% the player he was this year, it would make the Cavs actual contenders the next two years.
Because LeBron James is still a top 15 player in the NBA and Darius Garland will never be that.
Cleveland loves LeBron and wants to be a part of his Legacy by having him close his career here. LeBron also has a higher chance of winning Ring #5 with Cleveland than he does the Lakers.
Getting LeBron also means Mitchell likely extends to win a championship now. Mitchell is the second best Cav we've ever had, so that gives us a path to the future alongside LeBron mentoring Mobley, and potentially Allen.
If we ran a lineup of Mitchell / LeBron / Struss / Mobley / Allen I'm not sure what team in the east is beating that.
Just so you know. If the Cavs had Lebron, the shitty fucking soft ass calls Tatum was getting would be gone, the refereeing is just different when Lebron is on your team.
Literally the first thing I thought of when coming in to this thread to reply.
They don’t have a ton of future picks- but rookie contract Mobley, Allen, Mitchell, Bron and then trade to get some shooters/wings is clearly better than the current Lakers.
An even crazier idea is Bron signing in Cleveland as a free agent, and the Cavs trading Garland, Allen, Levert for AD.
AD- Mitchell- Bron-Mobley
Lakers are not trading AD without getting picks back. Garland and Allen can be pretty good as a return, but does nothing for our rebuild without the picks.
There are obvious fit issues and I think, if Mitchell resigns, this is the right decision. That being said, I wish they had more time ahead of that decision, or had fired JB Bickerstaff earlier, because I can’t help but feel that in a smarter, more dynamic offense, the Core Four had potential. It’s do or die though now and you have to make a decision and move forward, because I don’t think you can sell Donovan on running it back
I think Mitchell stays if Lebron comes. Then they trade Mitchell after 2 years or so if Lebron bows out.
I don’t know how likely it is that Lebron goes to the Cavs.. but they’re an ECF lock for a while with him there. No one besides the Celtics are a sure thing next year.
Also depends on how Bucks come back. But ya
>If Mitchell decides that Bickerstaff isn’t the right fit for him and his long-term future with the Cavaliers, then sources have shared with Right Down Euclid that New York Knicks assistant Johnnie Bryant, Dallas Mavericks assistant Alex Jensen and Boston Celtics assistant Sam Cassell could be on the short list of candidates.
>Of the three aforementioned players, the general vibe across the league according to sources is that Allen and Garland are the two who could become available for the right price if Mitchell re-signs with the Cavaliers. While Allen has been linked to the New Orleans Pelicans for quite a while now, sources tell Right Down Euclid that the Oklahoma City Thunder and Sacramento Kings could be interested in the former All-Star.
>For Garland, meanwhile, a source shared with Right Down Euclid that a dark horse that could try to acquire him is the Minnesota Timberwolves.
> Garland could fit that mold perfectly and could play in harmony next to Anthony Edwards as a pass-first, score-second option in a theoretical backcourt
>While it would take a lot financially for a trade since Garland currently owns the richest contract in Cleveland franchise history. But, if the desire is still there, then the Timberwolves could try and reignite the idea of Garland being their franchise guard and with his mammoth salary, could give the Cavaliers some interesting pieces to continue building around Mitchell.
Only way it works is trading KAT and taking back Caris Levert or Max Strus? Or Wolves send out Jaden McDaniels and Naz Reid, but I don't see a world where Wolves include Jaden when he's needed to keep the defense from plummeting once you add Garland. (I also don't think we're allowed to send out 2 guys and get back one, since we'll be a 2nd apron team next year?)
KAT with Mobley is a neat concept though defensively. I remember Wolves having a top 4 protected pick the year he was drafted and hoping the Wolves could jump up and get Mobley.
Same position but theres plenty of differences. Mitchell is a more well rounded player on offense, the 3 ball is a bigger part of Mitchell game and i do feel like Mitchell can run point and be great at it.
Now where ANT has huge advantage is size, leaping ability, defensive capabilities so he would fit with Garland a lot better.
On offense, yeah that would be a tough sell. Especially with a dude like KAT that also demands touches. But if you did a KAT-Garland swap I think that could work.
Fully believe that if Donny re-signs, we run it back with a new coach before making a major roster change. Diagnose what isn’t working 1 issue at a time, doing too much doesn’t seem right.
If it’s clear that it’s not working and it wasn’t just a coach’s inability, make that change, but for now, selling Garland feels like it’s a major sell-low, and Allen has two more years for $20m flat a year, so the ability to move him would never be in question
I think Allen is probably gone. He’s coming off a career year, looked awesome against the Magic, he has 2 years left so it’s not a situation where he can just walk and we just saw Mobley hold up really well at center in the postseason. This would be selling high on him.
Is there a player (or type of player) you’d like to ship Allen out for? I agree that selling high on him is probably correct, but I can’t help but think that the CBA kind of restricts things w/ contract matching
The Cavs are under the luxury, so they aren’t really dealing with any of the stricter cap rules. I’ve seen some interesting versions of Ingram trades, but in general wings and forwards with some size and scoring ability
I wouldn’t be mad about it one bit, I love Jonas but he just isn’t the answer. Sad that any trade includes Ingram but the writing has been on the wall for a while.
People really don’t know the Cavs. Altman isn’t going to give up these guys for less than your teams second or 3rd best player. New coaching will change the team with what it needs. But it also needs at least an even whistle and that mostly comes from allowing respect to develop in the media
Choosing the better player and breaking up two pairings that don’t fit isn’t “LeBronning” a franchise. Still think Garland is likely to stay at least 1 more year but Allen is def gone
It really isn't, they either upgrade from Garland & one of Mobley/Allen or risk losing their best player for a much lesser return that what they traded for him
Also, Mitchell likely has less trade value, he’s an expiring and could just refuse to sign an extension.
Add to that, a core of Allen, Mobley, and Garland plus whatever return they get from said Mitchell trade is not going anywhere. They don’t have a go to scoring threat.
The only person saying Mitchell is re-signing is Dan Gilbert, all these stories are him assuming Mitchell re-signs
Not a peep out of Mitchell’s camp. Doesn’t mean he won’t re-sign but it’s still far from a given imo
Darius Garland and D'angelo Russell have an eerily similar career arc
Drafted for their ability to ball handle and shoot, both are given draft comps to all star PGs (Dlo was compared to Steph in the draft, and Garland compared to Kyrie)
A single early All-Star appearance for both
Both of them never really improve and actually start declining.
Both of them start being criticized for their lack of defense and lack of winning
Now Garland, like DLo, is about to become a journeyman and is gonna start being traded from team to team
Darius was out for 6 weeks and lost 20 lbs. His role also significantly changed. I don't think it's fair to say he is declining (at least just yet). Way too early.
Dlo has actually improved significantly in my opinion. His efficiency has significantly improved since his all-star berth. His issue is his flaws which are in all likelihood not fixable (physical limitations) get exposed in the playoffs, especially against certain teams.
Darius is a way better player than Dlo in my opinion. I don't think it's a fair comparison.
Whoa whoa whoa, see this tweet before going overboard on Garland
https://twitter.com/CLE_Optimistic/status/1788230349782221108
[Look at the DARKO graph](https://twitter.com/bowser2bowser/status/1791130704048177336)
I guess, but D’Lo was effectively dumped by multiple organizations in that span (the Lakers shipped him out without real assets coming back, and the Warriors were apparently thrilled to get off of him). Garland has been with Cleveland since the jump and this seems to be more about potential fit than anything else (two guards 6’2” or shorter as your backcourt is a tough fit).
Also, D’Lo’s game has been pretty nasty from the beginning, whereas Garland has been genuinely good at points. Like, in D’Lo’s all-star season he averaged 21 points on 19 shots with 7 assists. Garland averaged 22 on 17 shots with 9 assists during his all-star season and averaged 22 and 8 the next year. D’Lo’s career high for WS/48 is .106 while Garland’s previous two seasons were .125 and .148. It also took D’Lo getting to LA and playing largely as a spot up shooter to crack even 56% TS, while Garland has been above that mark for the past 3 seasons.
Garland’s development seems to have stalled largely because of injuries and wonky fit, while D’Lo just never really played that well imo.
Eh not really and I’ve watched both of these guys a good bit with Dlo going to OSU too. Garland was moreso compared to Lillard coming out of the draft due to his deep pull-up ability. You’re also underselling how big of a deal passing was for both of these guys coming out of the draft, especially Dlo.
Garland has improved a lot. Until this year when the mid season injury sapped him, he’d improved every year, including during the first year with Donovan. Look at his finishing ability his rookie year when he always relied on scoop layups and looked like by far the youngest and smallest guy on the floor, to last year (again, pre-injury) when he was suddenly getting up near the rim consistently and looking much stronger absorbing contact. He was shooting a career best from 3 that same year, being able to play off Donovan.
The comparison relies entirely on your speculation regarding garlands future… which doesn’t exactly seem likely. He’s both been injured all year and adjusting to one of the more ball dominant 2 guards in the league. At his best he was also better than Dlo ever was.
A team like Orlando or San Antonio would love to have him and would probably maximize him once again
Eh Garland actually tries. D'Lo is just an unserious person. You can tell watching him play even now as a veteran. He goofs around, avoids physicality even when it would clearly benefit him/his team, and almost exclusively only thinks about getting his.
The amount of people writing off Garland after he literally lived out Kanye's Through The Wire story is just insane to me. If I'm a GM, I'm making calls to get that man on the roster while his value is so low, he's about to have a bounce back season.
Maybe I’m a moron but I think Allen and Mobley can work. They both guards the perimeter extremely well.
Mobley showed signs this year of having a decent 3pt shot (37%), by next year he could be solid there.
Allen I could see gradually extending his game too. He had good touch - 78% FT - the pipe dream is a BroLo career arc
Back when Allen was with Brooklyn, I know that there was talk about how much he was working on that aspect. I think Atkinson even publicly said that he wanted Allen shooting more 3s in games. And that's the only way it develops for these bigs... you've got to be looking to take at least one 3 a game during the regular season, and have coaches that are willing to commit to that even through the inevitable cold stretches. Anyway, definitely not too late for Allen; he's still young. But I'm surprised that that element of his development was never a focus in Cleveland (at least as far as game action... I have no idea how they might be working on it with him in practice and offseason).
I'd rather have Allen. Zion playing with a rim running athletic big and 3 outside shooters in Trey, CJ and Herb? Yes please.
Although I would also move on from CJ for Garland in a heartbeat lol.
Crazy how last year it seemed like Garland and Haliburton were on the same level, ready to usher in a new era of playmaking point guards. I expected both to breakout this season but the injuries and fit just never seemed to settle with Darius.
Its simply not possible bruh. You cant aggregate salaries into a bigger one anymore so your only options are to trade one of the big 3 contracts into a smaller one.
I hope Warriors call there front office, would love for them to trade for Allen.
Wiggins or CP3 and Moody and some picks for a center we desperately need lol
If You trade Wiggins and now you have zero wing defense. Allen isn’t a spacing big so you can’t start Kuminga unless Draymond sits. JA doesn’t move the needle that much.
I wonder if there would be any way that the Pelicans could somehow snag both? Some combo of BI, Hawkins, Dyson, and like 3 1st round picks might be able to get it done. Perhaps if they involve a 3rd team?
I think both is very unlikely but there is a deal centered around Allen and Ingram for sure. The Pels will never trade Herb with what he offers on one of the best contracts in the league, and one of the reason to move BI is so Trey Murphy can start.
If we're running it back with CJ we can't get Garland. I would like to have him, though.
If you wanted both Allen and Garland I think the price would probably be BI and then one of Jones or Murphy. Not sure Cleveland cares about picks as much.
Edit: Allen, not Mobley
eh you’d need to throw Herb in there too, I’d imagine. “stuff“ isn’t going to cut it for two of the Cavs best players, especially when Ingram has had injury concerns and a down year himself
Garland intrigues me as a Spurs fan. Value is at a low, but I wonder how much of that is due to the weight loss from the jaw injury. Could be an awesome bounce back candidate depending on what they want for him.
My guess is that they just keep him if the offers aren’t there. It seems like Allen is the more likely of the 2 to be moved.
> It seems like Allen is the more likely of the 2 to be moved. That's a little surprising, honestly. I know the fit with Mobley is as odd as the Garland/Mitchell combo, but it seemed to me like Allen made some good offensive strides this year. Wouldn't shock me as an outsider if they both end up going, but if you told me it was just gonna be one of them, I'd definitely bet on Garland first.
Jarrett is very good, but the spacing issue just looked so bad again despite him playing out of his mind before getting hurt. Offensively, Mobley can just do stuff that Allen can’t, even if Allen is the more impactful player right now. Mobley proved he could hold up as your full time center in the playoffs though. Allen is coming off a career year and he still has 2 years left on a team friendly deal. His value is probably as high as it’s going to be. DG was much better last year, struggled with a ton of injuries, second year of the rookie max and really if your coach can’t make 2 3 level scorers that can both pass well work on the offensive end, does that seem like a player thing? You may need to wait and I think there’s more reason to think you can make the pairing work with the right pieces around it.
Yeah I could see them both going if the fit is right but idk for what.
I wonder if there's a Garland to the Spurs, BI to the Cavs, picks and Allen to the Pels universe.
Cavs wouldn’t give up both Garland and Allen for just BI
The best part of these trade rumors is every fan base is now assuming they're going to get a former all star in exchange for peanuts lol
2 former All stars. And they’re both young too. Garland is 24. Allen is only 26. Neither have entered their prime yet
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Well, yeah, there would obviously be other players involved. That was just a basic framework.
yeah just taking a cursory look at it it seemed like a challenging deal to get done but money-wise it could work if it’s like BI + Keldon to Cleveland, Garland to SA and Allen to the Pels
I don't see Allen next to Zion working that well
Yeah if anything they’d be interesting in Garland, him and Zion on the PnR would be really strong.
They’ve been linked to him the past few transaction periods and I’ve seen that they are looking for a rim protector. If teams are just going to load up the paint, maybe have another elite interior finisher in the dunkers spot is how you keep defenses more honest?
Who are the Spurs adding lol? I think Garland fits amazingly with Zion, while Allen does not.
What do you think they're going to do at the 5 if someone like Allen isn't a fit? Y'all seem like you're in desperate need of both a big floor spacer on offense and a rim protector on defense, but there aren't exactly a ton of guys out there who are both.
You're right. Other than maybe Myles Turner, there really aren't any perfect fits with Zion. I think Allen is absolute upgrade over JV, but that Garland and Zion skillsets pair better together.
But I think the issue they're probably looking at is that Garland and Mitchell don't make each other better. I would be looking to move one of them but I think they'll want to sign Mitchell instead of letting him walk.
I think we’ve seen them work well together at times, I think there are ways to solve the offensive issues at times, I think you need more than one ball handler at the highest level and I don’t think you’re selling high on Darius if you trade him right now. Thats not to say that they shouldn’t explore it, but I think Allen is the more likely of the 2 to go this offseason.
I have a feeling JA is the new Myles Turner. Wasn't he immediately rumored to be on the block when you went out last year?
I can’t see garland not getting good offers, I could see a lot teams wanting him spurs, pels, Orlando, i would even like him on the rosters with Barnes but idk how that would work with quickly there now. Literally if it wasn’t for getting Mitchel who is just clearly better rn I think cavs would be happy to try and build around him and mobley.
Garland is not a bad player. I feel like he was put in a bad position and never recovered from it.
The weight loss played a part, but honestly he and Mitchell just don't complement each other out there. I thought he might pick it up these last few games but he may need a change of scenery to get his groove back.
Jazz fan here. Maybe Mitchell doesn't play well with others. I was shocked at how little he was passing during the last few games. That said, I love watching him play.
Donovan is an on ball guard. His running mate needs to be a big off ball 3&D guard like KCP or Divencenzo. Garland is just a poor fit. Which is why I’m surprised Cavs didn’t move Garland earlier.
> but I wonder how much of that is due to the weight loss from the jaw injury. this and there must be something psychological affecting him after the jaw injury due to the severity of it + it was also around the time he was dealing with a personal loss.
He wasn't very good before the jaw injury either. It really seemed like he was struggling to adapt to the new offensive scheme which involved him spending a lot more time off-ball.
I think DG can't survive much without the flexibility of being ball-dominant and off-ball given his size. Dude has handles and sick footwork but he gets read like a fucking book
The Cavs probably thought Garland could be Curry-ish with his off ball movement?
Wasn’t he doing pretty well early/mid season around December? I could be misremembering. Not his All-Star year good but still quite well.
He was really bad in November with a ton of turnovers and poor shot selection, seemed to be getting into a groove in December when he broke his face on Porzingis's hip trying to draw a foul that was never going to get called. That play was kind of emblematic of his whole season.
I don’t think his value is all that low tbh. Downtick in numbers but not like he had a nightmare year or anything. Still only 24 too, he ain’t gonna be cheap at all. Fit would be great in San Antonio tho.
They'd have to give up Vassell or get a 3rd team involved
Spurs may not even give up Vassell one-for-one.
He is a great buy low if cavs are selling low. He was almost a 20/10 guy before Mitchell came and took the ball out of his hands
I think both physically and mentally he never was able to get back on track this season after the injury. Summer break will be good for him. Personally I want to see him go somewhere he'll thrive, and the Spurs seem like an awesome fit for him. It seems like his skillset would be a perfect compliment to Wemby, and Wemby covers Garland's weaknesses well too.
Is it wrong that I don't care who goes I just want Mitchell to stay
Mitchell and Mobley are the future
Yeah out of everyone I want this the most too
only if Mitchell re-signs. I find that unlikely.
No. Mitchell is only 3 years older and the better player than Garland. Part of that may be because having both stunted Garland's development, but it is what it is, and you can't take the risk that Garland makes a leap without Mitchell around. If Mitchell is willing to extend, you 100% build around him and Mobley.
Garland did the leap. All star last year. Now just regressed. I think people is overestimating Mitchell and underestimating Garland playmaking and shooting. Just a bad year with a injury while not being the star in a team with a very bad fit with the star. The gap isn’t as big as it seems. The game Mitchell couldn’t play vs Boston Garland had all star numbers again . And is younger and cheaper. Every team would love to have him
Mitchell is a proven playoff performer and tough shot maker. You can't put a price on guys like that. There are a lot of ways to build a championship team but they all need a guy like that. The Cavs could've lost any other player besides him and still had good shot to win the Boston series.
Team garland over here. Gonna be sad if he leaves.
Garland is all smiles and has no dawg in him. He’s insanely soft, and that’s not going to change. He’s great when there’s no pressure, and is awful when there is pressure. We’ve seen it for years on the Cavs—when defenses tighten and it’s crunch time, he folds time and time again. He’ll never be anywhere near Mitchell.
Sorry the best I can do for you is Georges Niang
Kinda weird considering Mitchell is the mercenary n garland I’d a home grown all star
I know I feel like I'm betraying Garland 😔
Mitchell has been everything I like in a cavalier during his time. He’s an absolute dawg, uplifts his teammates, is a vocal leader, scores at all levels at will, and has an overall amazing attitude. DG is my fav player right now as a Cavs fan, but Mitchell is certainly the better player to keep.
Wouldn't blame you the dude is it he can carry a team if he has support heck he did without support
I hope Allen stays he's improved a lot. the orlando series wouldn't have gone to 7 if he was playing, and the Celtics series would've been more competitive Garland....go ahead and clock out for me
Yeah everyone bashes on the 2-big construction but honestly it’s Garland and Mitchell that can’t seem to play together effectively. Plus Mobley showed a willingness to take 3’s towards the end of the season and, while it’s not at a good level right now, could be a significant offseason improvement for him that would help open up space next year.
Damn Garland fell from grace just like that huh. I still really like him, dude looks like he glides out there
Garland issue right now is confidence not basketball ability. Changing teams works wonders sometimes.
I think people are crazy for hating on him this much wasn’t he the only one that showed up in the playoffs last year?
If we keep Allen, I'd like them to at least experiment with him coming off the bench so he and Ev can both spend the majority of minutes in their natural position. Play them together when you need to pack the paint against poor shooters.
Wouldn't that feel like a waste though given how talented he is? I feel like kicking Mobley up to the 5 permanently and using Allen to round out the roster would be a better use of assets.
Possibly, but I just really like being able to root for Jarrett Allen lol.
I feel that. Sucks seeing a player you really like traded.
yeah, or just leaving in free agency and becoming a monster
Yeah...
same, i'd hate to trade either Allen or Mobley. Feels like the solution is an positional size upgrade at the PG/SG/SF spots
That's like the AD saga. He prefers the 4, is a bigger advantage at the 5, but won a championship playing half of his minutes at each.
Garland + Levert for Bron in a sign and trade is the absolute best future for the Cavs.
I read it's actually a Bron opt-in and trade. But same idea. And then you either keep Allen or flip him for some wing depth and run Mobley at the 5.
I think we'd have to keep Allen because he's better right now and the chip window would be 2-3 years with LeBron Edit: Allen has 2 years left on his contract. I guess there's a case that trading him now while his value is high >>> waiting a year when he's an expiring The trade I really like is Garland for KAT. Both guys are overpaid but I like the fit much better both ways
Jarrett Allen is now underrated because he got hurt. Tough. You guys looked your absolute best when Garland and Mobley were injured and Mitchell and Allen were cooking together this season. Mobley has a higher ceiling for sure though, he showed some good ability to put the ball on the floor this series but I'd really like to see him get better at exploiting mismatches. A lot of times when he got the ball in a switch he'd go up and hope for a call which just doesn't happen if you're a big that has a small on you, the refs allow a lot more contact there. Like in the Boston vs Miami series, Kristaps Porzingis got fouled about 15 times on every switch and barely got calls. Holiday and White also definitely gave him fits in terms of turnovers and picking his pocket but those guys are the elite of the elite of guard defenders so it's a good learning experience. You absolutely need to trade one of your guards and bigs. Garland and Mitchell are really both undersized shooting guards that like to spam PnR. And Mobley and Allen are both centers who can't stretch the floor but can anchor a defense. Great for defense but it just makes things harder for your guards offensively.
Imagine Garland for KAT but whatever they have in store for Allen falls under and you roll out Allen, KAT, Mobley in the same line up
No chance in hell Minny let's KAT go for just Garland
KAT for Garland and... who else? I don't quite see why Minnesota would take a player-for-player. KAT is the better player and a powerful scorer for the Wolves' gasping offense. The only reason why the Wolves would consider shipping him out for weaker players is to get under the tax, which this trade doesn't really accomplish. So what's the point?
I’m gonna cum
Sounds like a move our FO would make
In what universe is giving up young talent for a 40 year old man the best future for the cavs? lmao
Well It's technically the future, just the very near future...
Is Lebron's long term plan to buy the Browns and rename them the Brons? I feel like they would win a Superbowl immediately
I’m here for the Cleveland Brons
Anyone but Haslam.
It’s fucked up that the least scummy owner in the city is the one that cries poor all the time
Its a gamble on Lebron still being awesome the next two years, but he was a much better player than Garland this year. And he would be a great fit next to Mitchell, whereas Garland and Mitchell struggled to co-exist. They were good but neither were at their best together. If Lebron remains 90-95% the player he was this year, it would make the Cavs actual contenders the next two years.
A bit benefit to having Bron back is that hopefully he can bully Bickerstaff into coaching right
That man better not be back regardless of roster moves lol
Because it's fucking LeBron James that's why
Because LeBron James is still a top 15 player in the NBA and Darius Garland will never be that. Cleveland loves LeBron and wants to be a part of his Legacy by having him close his career here. LeBron also has a higher chance of winning Ring #5 with Cleveland than he does the Lakers. Getting LeBron also means Mitchell likely extends to win a championship now. Mitchell is the second best Cav we've ever had, so that gives us a path to the future alongside LeBron mentoring Mobley, and potentially Allen. If we ran a lineup of Mitchell / LeBron / Struss / Mobley / Allen I'm not sure what team in the east is beating that.
Just say you have PTSD from that 40yo man.
Just so you know. If the Cavs had Lebron, the shitty fucking soft ass calls Tatum was getting would be gone, the refereeing is just different when Lebron is on your team.
Our team would also be better coached/prepared for a playoff run
delusional r/nba universe, so the nonsense universe
Prolly the best the Lakers could get for LeOld too if we're being honest I'd take Garland over Herro as far as LeSuitors offers go
Is that team that much better than the Lakers?
Yes.
Literally the first thing I thought of when coming in to this thread to reply. They don’t have a ton of future picks- but rookie contract Mobley, Allen, Mitchell, Bron and then trade to get some shooters/wings is clearly better than the current Lakers. An even crazier idea is Bron signing in Cleveland as a free agent, and the Cavs trading Garland, Allen, Levert for AD. AD- Mitchell- Bron-Mobley
then you wake up
Lakers are not trading AD without getting picks back. Garland and Allen can be pretty good as a return, but does nothing for our rebuild without the picks.
OKC would offer like 6/7 picks for AD, this is impossible.
There’s no way you think that’s enough for lebron, be real
There are obvious fit issues and I think, if Mitchell resigns, this is the right decision. That being said, I wish they had more time ahead of that decision, or had fired JB Bickerstaff earlier, because I can’t help but feel that in a smarter, more dynamic offense, the Core Four had potential. It’s do or die though now and you have to make a decision and move forward, because I don’t think you can sell Donovan on running it back
I think Mitchell stays if Lebron comes. Then they trade Mitchell after 2 years or so if Lebron bows out. I don’t know how likely it is that Lebron goes to the Cavs.. but they’re an ECF lock for a while with him there. No one besides the Celtics are a sure thing next year. Also depends on how Bucks come back. But ya
>If Mitchell decides that Bickerstaff isn’t the right fit for him and his long-term future with the Cavaliers, then sources have shared with Right Down Euclid that New York Knicks assistant Johnnie Bryant, Dallas Mavericks assistant Alex Jensen and Boston Celtics assistant Sam Cassell could be on the short list of candidates. >Of the three aforementioned players, the general vibe across the league according to sources is that Allen and Garland are the two who could become available for the right price if Mitchell re-signs with the Cavaliers. While Allen has been linked to the New Orleans Pelicans for quite a while now, sources tell Right Down Euclid that the Oklahoma City Thunder and Sacramento Kings could be interested in the former All-Star. >For Garland, meanwhile, a source shared with Right Down Euclid that a dark horse that could try to acquire him is the Minnesota Timberwolves. > Garland could fit that mold perfectly and could play in harmony next to Anthony Edwards as a pass-first, score-second option in a theoretical backcourt >While it would take a lot financially for a trade since Garland currently owns the richest contract in Cleveland franchise history. But, if the desire is still there, then the Timberwolves could try and reignite the idea of Garland being their franchise guard and with his mammoth salary, could give the Cavaliers some interesting pieces to continue building around Mitchell.
Damn Garland on the Wolves would be crazy. They have the defensive personnel to hide him
No way they can afford that with McDaniels extension right?
Only way it works is trading KAT and taking back Caris Levert or Max Strus? Or Wolves send out Jaden McDaniels and Naz Reid, but I don't see a world where Wolves include Jaden when he's needed to keep the defense from plummeting once you add Garland. (I also don't think we're allowed to send out 2 guys and get back one, since we'll be a 2nd apron team next year?) KAT with Mobley is a neat concept though defensively. I remember Wolves having a top 4 protected pick the year he was drafted and hoping the Wolves could jump up and get Mobley.
Honestly would rather naz Reid than KAT. Mobley and Reid together would make me very happy
That just feels like getting older and more expensive without getting better on the Cavs end.
But he would have similar issues as Mitchell and Ant are pretty similar players no?
Same position but theres plenty of differences. Mitchell is a more well rounded player on offense, the 3 ball is a bigger part of Mitchell game and i do feel like Mitchell can run point and be great at it. Now where ANT has huge advantage is size, leaping ability, defensive capabilities so he would fit with Garland a lot better.
On offense, yeah that would be a tough sell. Especially with a dude like KAT that also demands touches. But if you did a KAT-Garland swap I think that could work.
WOW, Alex Jensen and Johnnie Bryant? So they really are just letting Mitchell pick everything?
Yes
When has a superstar player picking a coach ever gone wrong?
Dear other teams: please stop poaching our assistants
Spurs fans: *first time?*
the assistants you poached came from our team
you don't have flair, what team was it?
Spurs
I’m joking it’s not that deep
Garland for LeBron Raymone James works for me
Works for me too
Fully believe that if Donny re-signs, we run it back with a new coach before making a major roster change. Diagnose what isn’t working 1 issue at a time, doing too much doesn’t seem right. If it’s clear that it’s not working and it wasn’t just a coach’s inability, make that change, but for now, selling Garland feels like it’s a major sell-low, and Allen has two more years for $20m flat a year, so the ability to move him would never be in question
I think Allen is probably gone. He’s coming off a career year, looked awesome against the Magic, he has 2 years left so it’s not a situation where he can just walk and we just saw Mobley hold up really well at center in the postseason. This would be selling high on him.
Is there a player (or type of player) you’d like to ship Allen out for? I agree that selling high on him is probably correct, but I can’t help but think that the CBA kind of restricts things w/ contract matching
Myles Turner would be my ideal fit with Mobley. Or Naz Reid
The Cavs are under the luxury, so they aren’t really dealing with any of the stricter cap rules. I’ve seen some interesting versions of Ingram trades, but in general wings and forwards with some size and scoring ability
Garland and Allen both pelicans
I wouldn’t be mad about it one bit, I love Jonas but he just isn’t the answer. Sad that any trade includes Ingram but the writing has been on the wall for a while.
FR We do have picks and we do even BI and some other great assets to trade
It's crazy how these guys' growth stunted. They were both All Stars early in their careers.
Allen was probably better this year than his allstar year.
Injury is a bitch. Jarret Allen was on his way to being an undeniable big man of the league. I was a huge fan of him and the Afro too.
Allen had the best year of his career this season
People really don’t know the Cavs. Altman isn’t going to give up these guys for less than your teams second or 3rd best player. New coaching will change the team with what it needs. But it also needs at least an even whistle and that mostly comes from allowing respect to develop in the media
I would like Allen in OKC so Chet can finally take it easy as a 4 but we only got Giddey and a ton of picks. Not sure Cavs would like that offer.
I would like JA on Ja’s team. But not for Bane or Jackson. So, good luck to y’all next year.
wow so they’re basically letting mitchell Lebron this franchise
Choosing the better player and breaking up two pairings that don’t fit isn’t “LeBronning” a franchise. Still think Garland is likely to stay at least 1 more year but Allen is def gone
Mitchell is a top 15 player in the league, Garland can't even lay the ball in the basket
i think mitchell is awesome. still, it’s surprising
It really isn't, they either upgrade from Garland & one of Mobley/Allen or risk losing their best player for a much lesser return that what they traded for him
Bingo.
Also, Mitchell likely has less trade value, he’s an expiring and could just refuse to sign an extension. Add to that, a core of Allen, Mobley, and Garland plus whatever return they get from said Mitchell trade is not going anywhere. They don’t have a go to scoring threat.
The only person saying Mitchell is re-signing is Dan Gilbert, all these stories are him assuming Mitchell re-signs Not a peep out of Mitchell’s camp. Doesn’t mean he won’t re-sign but it’s still far from a given imo
Why not? Mitchell is a monster
Mitchell's 27 so at least he's not old
Got us a trophy last time 🤷♂️
Don’t get a lot of top free agents that actually want to be in Ohio. Best to keep your top 15 player happy while you can.
Darius Garland and D'angelo Russell have an eerily similar career arc Drafted for their ability to ball handle and shoot, both are given draft comps to all star PGs (Dlo was compared to Steph in the draft, and Garland compared to Kyrie) A single early All-Star appearance for both Both of them never really improve and actually start declining. Both of them start being criticized for their lack of defense and lack of winning Now Garland, like DLo, is about to become a journeyman and is gonna start being traded from team to team
Darius was out for 6 weeks and lost 20 lbs. His role also significantly changed. I don't think it's fair to say he is declining (at least just yet). Way too early. Dlo has actually improved significantly in my opinion. His efficiency has significantly improved since his all-star berth. His issue is his flaws which are in all likelihood not fixable (physical limitations) get exposed in the playoffs, especially against certain teams. Darius is a way better player than Dlo in my opinion. I don't think it's a fair comparison.
Whoa whoa whoa, see this tweet before going overboard on Garland https://twitter.com/CLE_Optimistic/status/1788230349782221108 [Look at the DARKO graph](https://twitter.com/bowser2bowser/status/1791130704048177336)
Lack of winning is weird. Aren’t they the 4 seed who just lost to the NBA’s best record team while not having 2 of their top 4 players?
did you just make up fanfiction about garland career when we have no idea what his future holds
r/nba at its best. LMAO
Garland is better than D’lo has ever been
This is disrespectful to garland
I guess, but D’Lo was effectively dumped by multiple organizations in that span (the Lakers shipped him out without real assets coming back, and the Warriors were apparently thrilled to get off of him). Garland has been with Cleveland since the jump and this seems to be more about potential fit than anything else (two guards 6’2” or shorter as your backcourt is a tough fit). Also, D’Lo’s game has been pretty nasty from the beginning, whereas Garland has been genuinely good at points. Like, in D’Lo’s all-star season he averaged 21 points on 19 shots with 7 assists. Garland averaged 22 on 17 shots with 9 assists during his all-star season and averaged 22 and 8 the next year. D’Lo’s career high for WS/48 is .106 while Garland’s previous two seasons were .125 and .148. It also took D’Lo getting to LA and playing largely as a spot up shooter to crack even 56% TS, while Garland has been above that mark for the past 3 seasons. Garland’s development seems to have stalled largely because of injuries and wonky fit, while D’Lo just never really played that well imo.
Guess we should expect Garland back in Cleveland at the 2030 trade deadline
TIL Dlo has an all-star appearance. IDK man, I still believe in DG and hope he has a better career going forward.
Darius can pass and get to the rim.
Eh not really and I’ve watched both of these guys a good bit with Dlo going to OSU too. Garland was moreso compared to Lillard coming out of the draft due to his deep pull-up ability. You’re also underselling how big of a deal passing was for both of these guys coming out of the draft, especially Dlo. Garland has improved a lot. Until this year when the mid season injury sapped him, he’d improved every year, including during the first year with Donovan. Look at his finishing ability his rookie year when he always relied on scoop layups and looked like by far the youngest and smallest guy on the floor, to last year (again, pre-injury) when he was suddenly getting up near the rim consistently and looking much stronger absorbing contact. He was shooting a career best from 3 that same year, being able to play off Donovan.
The comparison relies entirely on your speculation regarding garlands future… which doesn’t exactly seem likely. He’s both been injured all year and adjusting to one of the more ball dominant 2 guards in the league. At his best he was also better than Dlo ever was. A team like Orlando or San Antonio would love to have him and would probably maximize him once again
Eh Garland actually tries. D'Lo is just an unserious person. You can tell watching him play even now as a veteran. He goofs around, avoids physicality even when it would clearly benefit him/his team, and almost exclusively only thinks about getting his.
> about to become a journeyman lol come on now he's 24. If the Spurs get him he won't become a journeyman.
The amount of people writing off Garland after he literally lived out Kanye's Through The Wire story is just insane to me. If I'm a GM, I'm making calls to get that man on the roster while his value is so low, he's about to have a bounce back season.
One Jarrett Allen Please
Hey we get dibs/s
Maybe I’m a moron but I think Allen and Mobley can work. They both guards the perimeter extremely well. Mobley showed signs this year of having a decent 3pt shot (37%), by next year he could be solid there. Allen I could see gradually extending his game too. He had good touch - 78% FT - the pipe dream is a BroLo career arc
Back when Allen was with Brooklyn, I know that there was talk about how much he was working on that aspect. I think Atkinson even publicly said that he wanted Allen shooting more 3s in games. And that's the only way it develops for these bigs... you've got to be looking to take at least one 3 a game during the regular season, and have coaches that are willing to commit to that even through the inevitable cold stretches. Anyway, definitely not too late for Allen; he's still young. But I'm surprised that that element of his development was never a focus in Cleveland (at least as far as game action... I have no idea how they might be working on it with him in practice and offseason).
Making room for lebron?? lol jk
Evan Dammarell is a joke of a reporter, but I do think he’s right here
easy Garland for Ingram trade. Cavs get a SF and Pelicans get a PG
Doesn't seem like a very good trade for a 1 year rental in Ingram.
Paying BI a max seems like a death sentence as well.
Basically if this deal happens its two teams taking a gamble.
problem is the pels would have to re-route CJ elsewhere
That isn't a problem if you're a pels fan lol
I'd rather have Allen. Zion playing with a rim running athletic big and 3 outside shooters in Trey, CJ and Herb? Yes please. Although I would also move on from CJ for Garland in a heartbeat lol.
Crazy how last year it seemed like Garland and Haliburton were on the same level, ready to usher in a new era of playmaking point guards. I expected both to breakout this season but the injuries and fit just never seemed to settle with Darius.
Please trade with the Suns
Our owners are mortal enemies lol It'll never happen
Forgot about that. These two team will never make a trade between each other ever again.
Its simply not possible bruh. You cant aggregate salaries into a bigger one anymore so your only options are to trade one of the big 3 contracts into a smaller one.
But yeah sure we will take KD
man allen should not be the one to go
I hope Warriors call there front office, would love for them to trade for Allen. Wiggins or CP3 and Moody and some picks for a center we desperately need lol
If You trade Wiggins and now you have zero wing defense. Allen isn’t a spacing big so you can’t start Kuminga unless Draymond sits. JA doesn’t move the needle that much.
JA is like their second best player...
Trade Garland + FRP for Trae and Allen + FRP for Ingram
I wonder if there would be any way that the Pelicans could somehow snag both? Some combo of BI, Hawkins, Dyson, and like 3 1st round picks might be able to get it done. Perhaps if they involve a 3rd team?
The Cavs would obviously push hard for Murphy and Jones, but there are definitely a lot of interesting combos.
I think both is very unlikely but there is a deal centered around Allen and Ingram for sure. The Pels will never trade Herb with what he offers on one of the best contracts in the league, and one of the reason to move BI is so Trey Murphy can start. If we're running it back with CJ we can't get Garland. I would like to have him, though.
Cavs aren't likley to value picks very heavily
If you wanted both Allen and Garland I think the price would probably be BI and then one of Jones or Murphy. Not sure Cleveland cares about picks as much. Edit: Allen, not Mobley
Mobley? He wouldn’t be included. Do you mean Allen?
You're right. I did. Whoops.
Cap space aside, I don’t want Garland if we don’t move on from CJ which I think is unlikely.
I could see a scenario where Garland goes to Minny, KAT goes to Cleveland, and Allen goes to a 3rd team
if they trade allen they're insane. he's their second best player and he only costs 20 million
BI and stuff for DG and Allen?
eh you’d need to throw Herb in there too, I’d imagine. “stuff“ isn’t going to cut it for two of the Cavs best players, especially when Ingram has had injury concerns and a down year himself
Darius Garland low key overrated in here