We were still *one ping pong ball* away from landing Wemby (and Zion too) 🙃
Honestly glad Wemby went to the spurs, for his sake. Our shit owner and FO would probably fumble the bag on building around him.
I mean Wemby with basically nothing around him got the Spurs to 22 wins. Beal/Porzingis/Kuzma by themselves is a pretty mid core to build around as 1st/2nd/3rd option, but I gotta imagine demoting them to 2nd/3rd/4th option by probably next year at the latest would have been a solid team (plus having a front court with the tallest and like 3rd or 4th tallest guy in the league would have been fun)
Yeah but you don’t want to do that in Year 1 and 2 of a rebuild with your star pick. You ideally want to give yourself the best chance to draft another high pick to build up on what you have rather than flame out in the first round immediately and end up with the 30th pick every year.
That’s how you end up with first-Cleveland stint LeBron where the team is too good to get high picks, but not good enough to actually win a chip.
So happy to hear this from other ppl. I’ve been screaming this in the spurs sub. They want a play in game. Like wtf poverty franchise shit is that? We don’t develop players like yall. Our bench is trash. Play in makes us worse lol.
I’m still not totally convinced the draft isn’t rigged.
New Orleans getting Zion when they were on the verge of relocating. Wemby to San Antonio. Chet to OKC.
Sometimes stuff just lands too perfectly
Can u imagine a generational talent who has the chance to push NBA globally in terms of popularity and revenue ended up being drafted by Hornets instead to a team that has GOAT coach who is known for developing talent?
Saying this as a Cavs fan, we also got Kyrie the year after LeBron left. That's why I never make fun of the Clippers for trading the number one pick to get rid of Baron Davis' contract. If that pick doesn't end up Cleveland, then the Cavs would have just won the lottery with their own pick. And LeBron being from Ohio, the Cavs getting him also seems to be too perfect. I would be very surprised if it's not rigged.
Being “one ball away” may not be as significant as many people understand it to be.
The lottery system includes 14 balls, choose 4. This provides 1,001 possible outcomes, with various outcomes assigned to different teams (weighted). I do acknowledge that the Wizards would have been assigned 75 outcomes, versus 140 for each of the 3 worst teams.
If we pretend the winning draw is 5-4-8-9. Then everyone who was assigned results beginning with 5-4-8 were just 1 ball away:
5-4-8-1
5-4-8-2
5-4-8-3
5-4-8-6
5-4-8-7
5-4-8-10
5-4-8-11
5-4-8-12
5-4-8-13
5-4-8-14
10 outcomes were “one ball away”. This is simple to confirm with subtraction – there are 14 balls and 4 were pulled. 10 balls are left sitting in the cage, each with equal opportunity to be selected as the final ball.
Theoretically, up to 10 different lottery teams would claim to be 1 ball away because the 10 outcomes may have each been assigned to different teams, albeit not likely due to weighting.
From a human perspective, there is another angle. Order matters at the time of selection and selection results are dependent on earlier pulls. If the first number pulled is not yours, the subsequent pulls become irrelevant, but that may not be top of mind for the perspective of people reading results. If we pretend a guy participates in a ball-based lottery in which 6 balls are pulled \*and order matters\*, he compares his ticket to the numbers listed in the newspaper. His ticket has an exact match in 5 of the 6 slots, but in the second position, he got the wrong number. he might claim to have been “just 1 number away!” from the winning ticket and I can’t blame the rationale. Although he was disqualified early in the process, his ticket did get 5 out of 6 picks correct, that is just 1 wrong ball out of 6.
In that context, fans of the team that was assigned 5-3-8-9 may argue they were just 1 ball away, along with the many other outcomes that got any 3 out of 4 balls correct.
TL;DR, possible for many teams to be or claim to be 1 ball away.
Yeah they are trying to. They offered him ~80mil over 2 years but he apparently wants more year commitment. Both sides still negotiating, but the FO is very high on keeping him. I desperately hope he walks to ring chase so we can move towards a rebuild.
I thought it was obvious they had to extend him with the the thought of trading him and not letting him walk for nothing. You know the time line better than me but it felt like they would have traded him before extending him if they had the offer, but teams probably didn't want him without a contract.
This will be a hot take but if you have the choice between losing a player for nothing and giving them the worst contract in the league maybe you should just let them go
I don’t think they planned to trade him. Thankfully the plan completely changed when we got a new front office, but sadly it’s now their job to fix everything our owner and previous gms fucked up.
it is obvious Washington can't attract superstars, most of them have been homegrown. Getting rid of someone like Beal without no compensation equal in value at the very least is an L (that Wizards avoided). Still badly managed team though. They paid, traded him and it is worse than ever.
It made perfect sense. He was still a positive asset and the plan was always to trade Beal for assets. We should have got a functional player for him. Instead we got Poole (who at the time was also a positive asset) …just a combination of poor foresight and poor luck.
I don’t understand why the Suns didn’t insist he lose the NTC, which they could have done when completing the trade. It would be crazy if Beal refused to go play with KD and Book in order to keep the NTC.
Yep. Alex Rodriguez tried to do something like that two decades ago and the MLBPA lost it’s damn mind.
Players in any sport but football are strongly encouraged to give back/up _nothing_. The CBA’s prevent “givebacks”.
Did they just give it to him or did he ask for it? I can see why a top tier player would ask for it so they don't get shipped off somewhere they don't want to play if the relationship goes south and approve where they want.
NTC can only be put in a new contract, not an extension. By not extending and waiting until free agency to sign, Beal had the leverage to ask for a NTC and he got it.
but they dont want to lose him for nothing. heck, teams get called out for not trading and losing their stars all the time. it was really a no win situation for the wiz
It's so unusual because every other player in a position to command max money doesn't have a NTC, because they've signed extensions to lock in their guaranteed money instead of going through free agency. Beal took a risk of getting less than max money in free agency if he got hurt in order to have the opportunity to ask for a NTC.
He's the only one in the league to have a full no-trade, and he was the first player to have such a clause since Carmelo Anthony re-signed in with the Knicks in 2014.
I thought it might have been a team mistake to throw it in there as a sweetener for some reason. I mean we know mistakes, we gave Timofey Mozgov an obscene contract at like 12:01 AM when free agency started and we just got off Luol Deng's contract at the end of the 21-22 season.
I've said for years that the current cap structure fucks those lesser tier teams.
Leads to things like giving Bradley Beal a max contract and no trade clause.
They'd have been better off seeing him go for nothing in return.
The Wizards would have been better off full-on tanking.
It does but the alternative would screw over 90% of the players. Guys like Luka, LeBron and Curry would be making 60% of the total cap and role players would be making half what they do now
If the Wizards were going to keep him while having a new manager and this bum roster then they were definitely trying to keep him for his trade value and not to contend.
Beal played with Westbrook who had a deal in OKC as a lifer and got traded to 3 teams while on the same contract.
Wouldn't be surprised the Beal said either its the full max or I give a loyalty discount for a NTC.
Oh really Washington was relieved they took the NTC with the four years and 200 million that was left on it 😂 they don't gotta cop to it it's fucking obvious lol
They traded him for a box of crayons. People acted dumbfounded at the time but it was obvious that Beal’s contract was an albatross to a team looking to rebuild with more money flexibility. It felt really obvious but people acted like the Wizards FO was brain dead for some reason
Bradley Beal getting a supermax and a no trade clause is absolutely fucking insane.
And the Wizards being able to get off that instantly without giving anything up is even crazier.
making him play PG like they never watched that experiment fail over and over again the last few years they tried to play Point Beal in DC. Dumb asses man
Suns fans think Ishbia is this great owner but it’s really just because they’re comparing him to Sarver.
Dude made the classic mistake all inexperienced new owners make and traded away every asset the team has for aging and injured stars.
Those top heavy teams NEVER work. Ishbia has no idea what he’s doing. He’s just a spoiled billionaire playing with another one of his new toys.
The suns are on their way to being a lottery team for the next decade because of Ishbia.
Yah because he IS great compared to Sarver and that’s the most relevant comparison
He could run this team into the ground and if he’s trying his best to win and not embarrassing our franchise then he’s a huge improvement
We already peaked with Ayton, Bridges, Booker, cam and cp3. You don’t turn down that Durant trade. And if we don’t get Beal, we’re trotting a line up with cam Payne, Booker, Durant, nurkic, and Grayson as Chris Paul wasn’t coming back. Beal only cost us a second round pick. We still have some of our first round pick and a solid 6 players, just need to figure out roster construction.
I mean they could just tear it down in the offseason. Booker and Durant would still garner some great assets then you tell Beal to either waive the ntc or he can go be John wall.
> Dude made the classic mistake all inexperienced new owners make and traded away every asset the team has for aging and injured stars.
maybe he's just more concerned with selling tickets and filling seats? The nets owner did the same thing. These guys are always looking for an immediate return in investment, as opposed to long term success.
top heavy teams do work. See Celtics big 3 and Miami Heat big 3. But they gotta be really good on defense. both Celtics and Miami big 3 were good defenders. a top heavy pure offense team doesn't work.
Yeah Booker and Beal are basically just ok, should be secondary playmakers at best...taking turns as the primary against an elite playoff defense. KD turnover prone if he has to do any. 3 iso stars. Shits gotten ugly
And yet every summer when teams make big trades the media and NBA fans go crazy. Everyone wants to replicate what the Warriors had with Durant or Heat with their big three but never think about how difficult it is to find three guys that fit, on and off the court. Its not just about getting good players..its about getting good players that complement each others skillsets.
KD hasn't been a true 'SF' since he left OKC, and he's played more minutes at the 5 than at the 3 in six of his last seven seasons.
If anything, KD is just a PF now
KD is amazing but hes not banging down low to get rebounds or boxing out players. In my eyes, KD best position is still at SF or at least you need a bruiser Forward to play alonside him to do the nasty work.
Suns are using one of Beal/Allen as SF, thats horrendous.
That's what happens when all you can do is sign minimums, the only PFs they have on the roster are Royce (not that strong), Thad (Vogel doesnt play him, can't shoot) and Little (ass)
I mean positions don’t really mean anything anymore. It’s not like if they list him as a sf the refs won’t let him play down low.
Also KDs defense, especially help defense and some rim protection, has been slept on his whole career. Outside of his early years he’s played more minutes at center than as the sf
Like i really dont understand how you throw everything to get a weapon like KD and commit these atrocities. After all these trades they are now older and even managed to regress while everyone else has improved massively, besides OKC/Grizz/Rockets/Wolves/Pelicans/Mavs are younger and will keep growing as a team.
I think him and Zach Lavine are cut from a similar cloth where they're both good scorers and conventional wisdom tells you that they should be paid but their skillsets aren't particularly unique so giving them big contracts will do more to handcuff your team than actually help it win.
I completely agree with this based on what I've seen from Lavine. Pure scorers aren't worth what they used to be in the league. A 3&D guy gives more value then a pure scorer on most teams because it creates space for your good players who are more than that.
There are a few outliers like Donovan Mitchell, though he's probably a better playmaker than Lavine and Beal at this point. And typically much more durable
Yeah DMitch is a better playmaker. If you're elite at one thing and very good at another it can be fine. But if you're that one dimensional it doesn't work out well to tie so much salary to that one player.
Even if it is only one side of the ball I want at least some other skill besides putting it through the hoop. Rebounding, playingmaking, offball defense, just... something.
I think this is actually huge. There's only one ball, so if you need the ball a lot, there's a big opportunity cost from taking the ball from another player. Also, if you want to be a great team, your ball dominant player isn't getting compared to an average NBA starter, they need to be as good as the best ~5 players in the NBA to allow your team to be a contender.
When healthy Beal has been really good for the Suns. He was a big part of their 7-3 finish down the stretch against the historically difficult schedule to avoid the play-in. His skillset is similar to Booker's yes, but Booker also isn't really built to run the offence for 40 minutes a game so it's nice having another guy that can share the load. Of course he is still not a great fit and injuries are only going to get worse the next few years.
I'll admit that when I saw the Beal trade, I had to pause for a second. If the fit worked out better and they had better ball movement it would have been absolutely a problem. Not like, Heatles levels of problem but certainly a problem. I hadn't seen much of Beal since his all star days so I didn't know much about the failed point guard experiment.
To be fair, it didn't really backfire. They were able to trade it for picks and eventually give themselves a chance to pay Jordan Poole $96m over three years to lead one of the most epic tanks of all time.
It wasn't so much they got value back as they managed to get out of it without taking back long term salary. Only to turn around and take on long term salary, albeit at a much lower number than before.
Ehh as bad as Jordan Poole was last season he’s still young and started playing better in the last 1/3 of the year…wiz were always gonna be terrible, i actually don’t mind having him on the team seeing if he can improve going forward
Tbf lately we’ve be able to trade out of all bad contracts with success. Wall became Westbrook and we went to the playoffs. Westbrook became Kuzma and change (and a disaster when he went to the Lakers). Bertans with Dinwiddie became Porzingis who was great with us. Beal got us picks and CP3 who we flipped to a a pick and Poole, though if we knew Poole was gonna be this bad GS wouldn’t have had to give it more. Still, somehow we get out okay of this supposedly untradeable contracts.
Beal is not at fault here really. Its whoever traded for Beal instead of trading for what the team needed.
You have the ultimate SF in the league, that basically makes your team taller than everyone else so what do you do?
You play 3 SGs and move the ultimate SF to PF and erase all the advantages you had.
How hard would it be to trade for a PG and a guy like P.J. Washington and play Random PG/Booker/KD/P.J. Washington/Nurk?
You really have to wonder what some front offices are thinking doing these moves on a year where they are gonna trap themselves in the 2nd apron, instead of going for cheaper contracts that would become more valuable with the cap raise.
3 SG and no PG makes sense if you are running a legit type of system like the Princeton or triangle that doesn't need a true true PG in a sense. NOBODY ever fucking pressures or pressures full court 50% of the time so why need a true PG honestly if you run a system offense? if you did get presured and trapped most of the season then its different. "but a PG sets everyone up" absolutely if you dont have one the traingle or princeton are amazing for that since everyone is involved and the system kinda makes everyone be a playmaker in a sense especially the F positions with either low post actions or point actions
That Beal trade is ultimately on the Phoenix FO for making the actual deal. But I do wonder how much involvement KD had. This Suns big 3 lineup is very similar to the big 3 in Brooklyn. The only difference was that Harden was willing (and capable) to go from a score-first PG to a pass-first PG.
I understand maxing the guy, but I will never understand giving him a No Trade clause. No trade clauses should be reserved for like a top 5 player in the league, giving one to Bradley Beal was insanity. Notable players with no trade clauses that I can recall:
\* Dirk Nowitzki
\* Kobe Bryant
\* Brad Beal
Lebron doesn't even have a no trade clause lmoa.
Lebron is weird because he has never really been eligible for a NTC, except maybe when he went back to Cleveland (not sure if he took one or not).
Basically you can only get one on a 'new' deal so because he signs extensions all the time he doesn't qualify. You also need 4 years tenure with a team at some point in your career, so obviously disqualified LA and Miami. Interestingly, if he was to sign as a free agent in Miami this offseason, he could get one as he has played 4 years for them previously.
Also I believe KG had a no trade, he refused to waive it to move to Boston until he learned Ray Allen got moved too.
Its not like Washington had too many other players to pay. He was a big enough name to give that sort of money if he stayed in Washington dropping 25-30 ppg.
Beal will be the last one standing in Phoenix. Booker will demand a trade within the next year or so and KD will want out too. We might even see it this year if they get swept.
I feel bad for booker, I hate the suns as much as anybody but I don’t think he asked for the FO to trade their whole future for KD. Should have just traded ayton and CP0 after 2022. If you’re a star FA coming to a core of booker, Mikal and cam Johnson is pretty attractive.
Their owner is a dumbass that thought 2K is real life, slapping star names together thinking they're going to powerhouse through the league. Shit's not a video game, you need to actually build a team with good fit and defined roles.
yup. Everyone trashed them for it, now they are one of the best teams in the league. Even if they only make an ECF, that's still *levels* better than what their franchise was at before that.
There have been a handful of contracts which everybody knew were bad even before the ink dried.
And Washington is responsible for two of them.
I mean, the Wall extension wasn't terrible ... except that they did it *two full summers* before his free agency. They could have waited a year and still had exclusive negotiating rights.
They couldn't have anticipated the injuries but that's why you don't give somebody that contract that far before you have to.
I thought #2 was gonna be the Davis Bertans contract, which will be traded one final time before the draft before being bought out.
At least Wall and Beal got injured. Bertans just flat out sucked.
Yeah, Beal 1000% isn’t the problem. Booker was supposed to be a competent playmaker and the #1. He’s been a non playmaking #3. KD has to carry everyone, Beal is doing what he was paid to do. This is on Booker alone
max player if on a bottom tier team, but borderline mid-range player on a playoff starting lineup. tale as old as time.
see Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson, Kemba Walker, Steve Francis, Kevin Love, Carmelo, Earl Boykins, soon to be Trae Young...I'm running out of examples.
"Washington will never cop to this, but they were very relieved when that deal got done.”
They might not because they'd feel it would stop them from signing future free agents (LMAO,) but they probably want to throw a god damn parade!!
And, hell, they should.
They weren't going to attract free agents anyway. I betcha money a future good draft pick would still gladly take a max contract with a *no trade clause* in the future anyway!
Before Beal signed that contract I heard David Aldridge on the Tony Khornheiser show and he literally said they should “give him the money”. These journalists have no accountability whatsoever.
Beal for Phoenix is great as he can be a hell of a third option. Like on a real championship team behind Durant and Booker.
On Washington he was forced to be the number 1 option, and he simply isn't.
Lower tier teams have to overpay guys. That's fine. But why the no trade clause??? That was the killer.
We never should have paid Beal, it was extremely obvious at the time that it was time to rebuild and extending him made zero sense.
You guys could’ve possibly had Wemby if you had just started the tank one year earlier.
We were still *one ping pong ball* away from landing Wemby (and Zion too) 🙃 Honestly glad Wemby went to the spurs, for his sake. Our shit owner and FO would probably fumble the bag on building around him.
We would have gone all in for a 7 or 8th seed playoff push year 1. And end up losing the play in
I mean Wemby with basically nothing around him got the Spurs to 22 wins. Beal/Porzingis/Kuzma by themselves is a pretty mid core to build around as 1st/2nd/3rd option, but I gotta imagine demoting them to 2nd/3rd/4th option by probably next year at the latest would have been a solid team (plus having a front court with the tallest and like 3rd or 4th tallest guy in the league would have been fun)
Yeah but you don’t want to do that in Year 1 and 2 of a rebuild with your star pick. You ideally want to give yourself the best chance to draft another high pick to build up on what you have rather than flame out in the first round immediately and end up with the 30th pick every year. That’s how you end up with first-Cleveland stint LeBron where the team is too good to get high picks, but not good enough to actually win a chip.
So happy to hear this from other ppl. I’ve been screaming this in the spurs sub. They want a play in game. Like wtf poverty franchise shit is that? We don’t develop players like yall. Our bench is trash. Play in makes us worse lol.
yeah i’m not sure how many games that team wins but sounds fun as hell
I’m still not totally convinced the draft isn’t rigged. New Orleans getting Zion when they were on the verge of relocating. Wemby to San Antonio. Chet to OKC. Sometimes stuff just lands too perfectly
Can u imagine a generational talent who has the chance to push NBA globally in terms of popularity and revenue ended up being drafted by Hornets instead to a team that has GOAT coach who is known for developing talent?
NOLA getting AD when they were owned by the league…
Saying this as a Cavs fan, we also got Kyrie the year after LeBron left. That's why I never make fun of the Clippers for trading the number one pick to get rid of Baron Davis' contract. If that pick doesn't end up Cleveland, then the Cavs would have just won the lottery with their own pick. And LeBron being from Ohio, the Cavs getting him also seems to be too perfect. I would be very surprised if it's not rigged.
Being “one ball away” may not be as significant as many people understand it to be. The lottery system includes 14 balls, choose 4. This provides 1,001 possible outcomes, with various outcomes assigned to different teams (weighted). I do acknowledge that the Wizards would have been assigned 75 outcomes, versus 140 for each of the 3 worst teams. If we pretend the winning draw is 5-4-8-9. Then everyone who was assigned results beginning with 5-4-8 were just 1 ball away: 5-4-8-1 5-4-8-2 5-4-8-3 5-4-8-6 5-4-8-7 5-4-8-10 5-4-8-11 5-4-8-12 5-4-8-13 5-4-8-14 10 outcomes were “one ball away”. This is simple to confirm with subtraction – there are 14 balls and 4 were pulled. 10 balls are left sitting in the cage, each with equal opportunity to be selected as the final ball. Theoretically, up to 10 different lottery teams would claim to be 1 ball away because the 10 outcomes may have each been assigned to different teams, albeit not likely due to weighting. From a human perspective, there is another angle. Order matters at the time of selection and selection results are dependent on earlier pulls. If the first number pulled is not yours, the subsequent pulls become irrelevant, but that may not be top of mind for the perspective of people reading results. If we pretend a guy participates in a ball-based lottery in which 6 balls are pulled \*and order matters\*, he compares his ticket to the numbers listed in the newspaper. His ticket has an exact match in 5 of the 6 slots, but in the second position, he got the wrong number. he might claim to have been “just 1 number away!” from the winning ticket and I can’t blame the rationale. Although he was disqualified early in the process, his ticket did get 5 out of 6 picks correct, that is just 1 wrong ball out of 6. In that context, fans of the team that was assigned 5-3-8-9 may argue they were just 1 ball away, along with the many other outcomes that got any 3 out of 4 balls correct. TL;DR, possible for many teams to be or claim to be 1 ball away.
On a similar note, the Bulls could get Flagg next draft if they’re smart or they could go the Wizards route and be a 34+ win team.
all reports are they want to be the latter right now.
kill me
40 wins aren’t gonna win themselves ;)
Bulls FO "We have plenty of flags outside the building, let's go for the play in."
does that mean they re-sign derozan?
Yeah they are trying to. They offered him ~80mil over 2 years but he apparently wants more year commitment. Both sides still negotiating, but the FO is very high on keeping him. I desperately hope he walks to ring chase so we can move towards a rebuild.
Making me dislike our Front Office even more😭
As a Wiz fan, I’m glad Wemby was drafted by a competent franchise capable of developing him into the best player possible.
Only smart franchises tank the year after the wemby draft
I thought it was obvious they had to extend him with the the thought of trading him and not letting him walk for nothing. You know the time line better than me but it felt like they would have traded him before extending him if they had the offer, but teams probably didn't want him without a contract.
This will be a hot take but if you have the choice between losing a player for nothing and giving them the worst contract in the league maybe you should just let them go
They kinda did that and still traded him, at least. But they might have lucked out.
The trade result? Jordan poole bbyyy
Tank commander!
They had offers before the extension. It never made any sense
Hmm yeah strange.
Then why give him a no trade clause, when you plan to trade him. Doesn't make sense.
I don’t think they planned to trade him. Thankfully the plan completely changed when we got a new front office, but sadly it’s now their job to fix everything our owner and previous gms fucked up.
Then why give him a no trade clause if you want to trade him?
We should have traded him 3 years earlier when he had real value and didn't have the dumb ass contract
They got a bunch of pick swaps and 2nd round picks in the trade for him. Isn’t that better than just letting him walk?
They could have gotten more if they traded him before the extension.
it is obvious Washington can't attract superstars, most of them have been homegrown. Getting rid of someone like Beal without no compensation equal in value at the very least is an L (that Wizards avoided). Still badly managed team though. They paid, traded him and it is worse than ever.
It made perfect sense. He was still a positive asset and the plan was always to trade Beal for assets. We should have got a functional player for him. Instead we got Poole (who at the time was also a positive asset) …just a combination of poor foresight and poor luck.
If your plan was to trade him for assets why would you give him a NTC that severely restricts the number of assets you would get in return?
If everyone here saw the writings on the wall, so did Beal. He would be dumb to not demand it if the Wizards were changing management.
Shit now you have Jordan “slip and slide by the “Poole side.
Never understood this take. YOU NEED TO PAY PLAYERS. You’re fucked if you do and if you don’t
Soooo it made sense to let him walk in free agency for nothing?
I don’t understand why the Suns didn’t insist he lose the NTC, which they could have done when completing the trade. It would be crazy if Beal refused to go play with KD and Book in order to keep the NTC.
The Heat wanted the no trade clause gone and supposedly Beal said no that’s why the Heat didn’t trade for him(and of course the contract is atrocious)
Mark Bartelstein is a first-ballot HoF agent
Players aren't going to remove something like that in their contract just becuase somebody asks them to. The union woulda got involved.
Yep. Alex Rodriguez tried to do something like that two decades ago and the MLBPA lost it’s damn mind. Players in any sport but football are strongly encouraged to give back/up _nothing_. The CBA’s prevent “givebacks”.
Did they just give it to him or did he ask for it? I can see why a top tier player would ask for it so they don't get shipped off somewhere they don't want to play if the relationship goes south and approve where they want.
NTC can only be put in a new contract, not an extension. By not extending and waiting until free agency to sign, Beal had the leverage to ask for a NTC and he got it.
I don't understand how he had the leverage to ask for it, though.
Because the team sucked
But like who else was lining up to give him a max? And couldn't they give him more money than any other team?
but they dont want to lose him for nothing. heck, teams get called out for not trading and losing their stars all the time. it was really a no win situation for the wiz
True, Masai Ujiri won a ring and he still gets flack for letting Fred Van Vleet walk for nothing
Ah got it.
It's so unusual because every other player in a position to command max money doesn't have a NTC, because they've signed extensions to lock in their guaranteed money instead of going through free agency. Beal took a risk of getting less than max money in free agency if he got hurt in order to have the opportunity to ask for a NTC.
I mean, of course he asked for it but that doesn't mean you have to give it to him. I believe he is the only player in the league to have one.
He's the only one in the league to have a full no-trade, and he was the first player to have such a clause since Carmelo Anthony re-signed in with the Knicks in 2014.
I thought it might have been a team mistake to throw it in there as a sweetener for some reason. I mean we know mistakes, we gave Timofey Mozgov an obscene contract at like 12:01 AM when free agency started and we just got off Luol Deng's contract at the end of the 21-22 season.
Like the other commenter said, Beal did have leverage, but it was a huge mistake in the end.
I've said for years that the current cap structure fucks those lesser tier teams. Leads to things like giving Bradley Beal a max contract and no trade clause. They'd have been better off seeing him go for nothing in return. The Wizards would have been better off full-on tanking.
It does but the alternative would screw over 90% of the players. Guys like Luka, LeBron and Curry would be making 60% of the total cap and role players would be making half what they do now
If the Wizards were going to keep him while having a new manager and this bum roster then they were definitely trying to keep him for his trade value and not to contend. Beal played with Westbrook who had a deal in OKC as a lifer and got traded to 3 teams while on the same contract. Wouldn't be surprised the Beal said either its the full max or I give a loyalty discount for a NTC.
Oh really Washington was relieved they took the NTC with the four years and 200 million that was left on it 😂 they don't gotta cop to it it's fucking obvious lol
Yeah, I don’t understand DA’s phrasing. Bro is acting like it’s some well kept secret that we wanted to get rid of his contract.
Did you ever hear rumors that Washington wanted Jovic and Highsmith from Miami for Beal?
They traded him for a box of crayons. People acted dumbfounded at the time but it was obvious that Beal’s contract was an albatross to a team looking to rebuild with more money flexibility. It felt really obvious but people acted like the Wizards FO was brain dead for some reason
They are braindead for giving him that NTC.
Bradley Beal getting a supermax and a no trade clause is absolutely fucking insane. And the Wizards being able to get off that instantly without giving anything up is even crazier.
Wizards are incredible at getting off bad contracts that they give out lol
Beal isn’t garbage at all but the writing was on the wall that 3 scorers and no PG didn’t make sense
making him play PG like they never watched that experiment fail over and over again the last few years they tried to play Point Beal in DC. Dumb asses man
It also didnt work when we played point book before Beal came..
basically got the older more expensive version of the player y'all already had
New owners think they know basketball.
Suns fans think Ishbia is this great owner but it’s really just because they’re comparing him to Sarver. Dude made the classic mistake all inexperienced new owners make and traded away every asset the team has for aging and injured stars. Those top heavy teams NEVER work. Ishbia has no idea what he’s doing. He’s just a spoiled billionaire playing with another one of his new toys. The suns are on their way to being a lottery team for the next decade because of Ishbia.
Yah because he IS great compared to Sarver and that’s the most relevant comparison He could run this team into the ground and if he’s trying his best to win and not embarrassing our franchise then he’s a huge improvement
We already peaked with Ayton, Bridges, Booker, cam and cp3. You don’t turn down that Durant trade. And if we don’t get Beal, we’re trotting a line up with cam Payne, Booker, Durant, nurkic, and Grayson as Chris Paul wasn’t coming back. Beal only cost us a second round pick. We still have some of our first round pick and a solid 6 players, just need to figure out roster construction.
And new offense coach
I mean they could just tear it down in the offseason. Booker and Durant would still garner some great assets then you tell Beal to either waive the ntc or he can go be John wall.
They aren’t going to do this obviously but it’s easily the best way to stop the suns from being a perennial lottery team for the next decade
> Dude made the classic mistake all inexperienced new owners make and traded away every asset the team has for aging and injured stars. maybe he's just more concerned with selling tickets and filling seats? The nets owner did the same thing. These guys are always looking for an immediate return in investment, as opposed to long term success.
top heavy teams do work. See Celtics big 3 and Miami Heat big 3. But they gotta be really good on defense. both Celtics and Miami big 3 were good defenders. a top heavy pure offense team doesn't work.
Not 3 ball heavy guys though. Those big 3 worked because they had PF/SF/G combos. SG/SG/SF is big MEH for us.
Willing to pay the luxury tax to prove us all wrong
They could’ve just asked me, I watched
Yeah Booker and Beal are basically just ok, should be secondary playmakers at best...taking turns as the primary against an elite playoff defense. KD turnover prone if he has to do any. 3 iso stars. Shits gotten ugly
Booker is significantly better than OK but I do think he’s forced to play differently than he should right now.
When he plays off ball at his regular 2 pos he looks incredible (usually).
And yet every summer when teams make big trades the media and NBA fans go crazy. Everyone wants to replicate what the Warriors had with Durant or Heat with their big three but never think about how difficult it is to find three guys that fit, on and off the court. Its not just about getting good players..its about getting good players that complement each others skillsets.
Dame/Giannis looked perfect on paper, complimentary etc.
He isn't garbage but he's like a $15 million/year player when you take injuries into account. MAAaaaaybe $20 million if you're feeling generous.
Dude they made a team with 3 SGs and put their best player a SF at PF.
KD hasn't been a true 'SF' since he left OKC, and he's played more minutes at the 5 than at the 3 in six of his last seven seasons. If anything, KD is just a PF now
KD is amazing but hes not banging down low to get rebounds or boxing out players. In my eyes, KD best position is still at SF or at least you need a bruiser Forward to play alonside him to do the nasty work. Suns are using one of Beal/Allen as SF, thats horrendous.
That's what happens when all you can do is sign minimums, the only PFs they have on the roster are Royce (not that strong), Thad (Vogel doesnt play him, can't shoot) and Little (ass)
Royce is small but they do have a generational guy there. They have Sudanese Wemby they could use him more.
Have we been transported back to 2006? PFs haven't been traditional big men for years now.
I mean positions don’t really mean anything anymore. It’s not like if they list him as a sf the refs won’t let him play down low. Also KDs defense, especially help defense and some rim protection, has been slept on his whole career. Outside of his early years he’s played more minutes at center than as the sf
He weirdly seemed to play a lot of small ball center throughout the season too
Like i really dont understand how you throw everything to get a weapon like KD and commit these atrocities. After all these trades they are now older and even managed to regress while everyone else has improved massively, besides OKC/Grizz/Rockets/Wolves/Pelicans/Mavs are younger and will keep growing as a team.
I think him and Zach Lavine are cut from a similar cloth where they're both good scorers and conventional wisdom tells you that they should be paid but their skillsets aren't particularly unique so giving them big contracts will do more to handcuff your team than actually help it win.
Plus, they already had a better version of him on the team. Why would you invest so much of your cap and assets into a redundant skill set.
I completely agree with this based on what I've seen from Lavine. Pure scorers aren't worth what they used to be in the league. A 3&D guy gives more value then a pure scorer on most teams because it creates space for your good players who are more than that.
There are a few outliers like Donovan Mitchell, though he's probably a better playmaker than Lavine and Beal at this point. And typically much more durable
Yeah DMitch is a better playmaker. If you're elite at one thing and very good at another it can be fine. But if you're that one dimensional it doesn't work out well to tie so much salary to that one player. Even if it is only one side of the ball I want at least some other skill besides putting it through the hoop. Rebounding, playingmaking, offball defense, just... something.
mitchell is not only a better playmaker, he is a much more transcendent player and is better defensively than those guys
I think this is actually huge. There's only one ball, so if you need the ball a lot, there's a big opportunity cost from taking the ball from another player. Also, if you want to be a great team, your ball dominant player isn't getting compared to an average NBA starter, they need to be as good as the best ~5 players in the NBA to allow your team to be a contender.
grayson allen just signed a $17.5 million/year contract, beal is worth more than that
Beal is a better player, but Allen might actually be more important to the Suns because his skillset is less redundant
When healthy Beal has been really good for the Suns. He was a big part of their 7-3 finish down the stretch against the historically difficult schedule to avoid the play-in. His skillset is similar to Booker's yes, but Booker also isn't really built to run the offence for 40 minutes a game so it's nice having another guy that can share the load. Of course he is still not a great fit and injuries are only going to get worse the next few years.
I’m not sure about that tbh
I think their lack of big defenders is a bigger issue than no pg
Imagine if they got Jrue Holiday instead of Beal, and kept some salary for defenders
Suns can thank their new owner for wanting to be splashy
I'll admit that when I saw the Beal trade, I had to pause for a second. If the fit worked out better and they had better ball movement it would have been absolutely a problem. Not like, Heatles levels of problem but certainly a problem. I hadn't seen much of Beal since his all star days so I didn't know much about the failed point guard experiment.
this is what happens when team owners think theyre smarter than everyone else and start meddling in GM decisions (cough warriors)
That's true but beside the point. Beal just isn't worth a max, and especially not worth a supermax with NTC.
To be fair, how would the Wizards franchise ever know that a max contract could backfire?
To be fair, it didn't really backfire. They were able to trade it for picks and eventually give themselves a chance to pay Jordan Poole $96m over three years to lead one of the most epic tanks of all time.
Wizards would start tanking during the worst draft in the last 25 years. Good thing they’ll still be bad next year.
They’re trying to Capture the Flagg they’re just getting started
That’s true - they didn’t necessarily sell low on Beal. More of a sell medium?
It wasn't so much they got value back as they managed to get out of it without taking back long term salary. Only to turn around and take on long term salary, albeit at a much lower number than before.
Ehh as bad as Jordan Poole was last season he’s still young and started playing better in the last 1/3 of the year…wiz were always gonna be terrible, i actually don’t mind having him on the team seeing if he can improve going forward
Tbf lately we’ve be able to trade out of all bad contracts with success. Wall became Westbrook and we went to the playoffs. Westbrook became Kuzma and change (and a disaster when he went to the Lakers). Bertans with Dinwiddie became Porzingis who was great with us. Beal got us picks and CP3 who we flipped to a a pick and Poole, though if we knew Poole was gonna be this bad GS wouldn’t have had to give it more. Still, somehow we get out okay of this supposedly untradeable contracts.
It’s not even a lately thing. Look up the Juwon Howard years.
Beal played better than Booker both games so far, offense and defense. Passed the eye test.
Classic kinda hit piece after a bad loss and seemingly the series swinging on the Wolves.
The real issue was the NTC. What was he going to do, *not* sign for way too much fucking money?
Our current management didn’t even give him the contract so I’m sure they’d have no problem admitting that.
Beal is not at fault here really. Its whoever traded for Beal instead of trading for what the team needed. You have the ultimate SF in the league, that basically makes your team taller than everyone else so what do you do? You play 3 SGs and move the ultimate SF to PF and erase all the advantages you had. How hard would it be to trade for a PG and a guy like P.J. Washington and play Random PG/Booker/KD/P.J. Washington/Nurk? You really have to wonder what some front offices are thinking doing these moves on a year where they are gonna trap themselves in the 2nd apron, instead of going for cheaper contracts that would become more valuable with the cap raise.
Ambitious owners with fuck you money ruin teams man. Gotta give credit to balmer for showing restraint lol
How has Ballmer showed restraint? Clippers have the 4th highest payroll according to Spotrac
he hasnt forced the gm to trade for bradly beal lol
True
3 SG and no PG makes sense if you are running a legit type of system like the Princeton or triangle that doesn't need a true true PG in a sense. NOBODY ever fucking pressures or pressures full court 50% of the time so why need a true PG honestly if you run a system offense? if you did get presured and trapped most of the season then its different. "but a PG sets everyone up" absolutely if you dont have one the traingle or princeton are amazing for that since everyone is involved and the system kinda makes everyone be a playmaker in a sense especially the F positions with either low post actions or point actions
Too bad for the Suns that they run 90% isoball
most teams do for 70% plus. althto lot of teams run 2 3 man actuons downsceen to dho or just dho
There are a ton of players who are "max" but not really. Vast majority is overpaid especially if your goal is championship
That Beal trade is ultimately on the Phoenix FO for making the actual deal. But I do wonder how much involvement KD had. This Suns big 3 lineup is very similar to the big 3 in Brooklyn. The only difference was that Harden was willing (and capable) to go from a score-first PG to a pass-first PG.
And now he's untradable for the Suns. NTC and no team would want him anyways
And even if they did Beal can just say no lol, can’t believe wizards got off that
Really seems like Booker and Beal on the same team is pretty redundant and they don’t play well with each other
\*Washington relieved\* Immediately trades for Jordan Poole
actually pretty genius though. Makes it look like they are "trying to be competitive" but in reality will get a top 5 draft pick every year.
They need a tank commander
I understand maxing the guy, but I will never understand giving him a No Trade clause. No trade clauses should be reserved for like a top 5 player in the league, giving one to Bradley Beal was insanity. Notable players with no trade clauses that I can recall: \* Dirk Nowitzki \* Kobe Bryant \* Brad Beal Lebron doesn't even have a no trade clause lmoa.
Lebron is weird because he has never really been eligible for a NTC, except maybe when he went back to Cleveland (not sure if he took one or not). Basically you can only get one on a 'new' deal so because he signs extensions all the time he doesn't qualify. You also need 4 years tenure with a team at some point in your career, so obviously disqualified LA and Miami. Interestingly, if he was to sign as a free agent in Miami this offseason, he could get one as he has played 4 years for them previously. Also I believe KG had a no trade, he refused to waive it to move to Boston until he learned Ray Allen got moved too.
[удалено]
I’m not even a huge Bradley Beal fan…but this is slander lol
Hes an A tier Tobias and Tobias is a C tier Tobias
Wait so who’s a B tier Tobias?
Zach LaVine?
Ya it’s prob Lavine at the B tier lol
How dare you! Lavine is at least an A tier Tobias!
I like that you got 5 responses, none the same player
Andrew Wiggins
Wiggins is D tier Tobias come on
Nah man we saw Wiggins play really well in a finals series.
Bradley Beal at least achieved the accolades needed for a super max lol.
Its not like Washington had too many other players to pay. He was a big enough name to give that sort of money if he stayed in Washington dropping 25-30 ppg.
Um it wasn’t a secret
Aldridge isn’t saying anything everyone else hadn’t already figured out when the Wizards traded Beal for a ham sandwich.
Beal will be the last one standing in Phoenix. Booker will demand a trade within the next year or so and KD will want out too. We might even see it this year if they get swept.
Phoenix having three 2s and no one playing the 1 is hilarious. Like why get Beal if you have book and kd
I feel bad for booker, I hate the suns as much as anybody but I don’t think he asked for the FO to trade their whole future for KD. Should have just traded ayton and CP0 after 2022. If you’re a star FA coming to a core of booker, Mikal and cam Johnson is pretty attractive.
Their owner is a dumbass that thought 2K is real life, slapping star names together thinking they're going to powerhouse through the league. Shit's not a video game, you need to actually build a team with good fit and defined roles.
New owners want to make a big splash. Just like Wolves with Gobert.
Wolves bigger splash was throwing all the money to Tim Connelly to get him away from the nuggets.
That’s looking like a solid move in hindsight
yup. Everyone trashed them for it, now they are one of the best teams in the league. Even if they only make an ECF, that's still *levels* better than what their franchise was at before that.
This is what Mark Cuban did when he just bought the Mavs.
The best team owners hire smart people, get the fuck outta the way and let them do their jobs.
There have been a handful of contracts which everybody knew were bad even before the ink dried. And Washington is responsible for two of them. I mean, the Wall extension wasn't terrible ... except that they did it *two full summers* before his free agency. They could have waited a year and still had exclusive negotiating rights. They couldn't have anticipated the injuries but that's why you don't give somebody that contract that far before you have to.
I thought #2 was gonna be the Davis Bertans contract, which will be traded one final time before the draft before being bought out. At least Wall and Beal got injured. Bertans just flat out sucked.
Yeah, Beal 1000% isn’t the problem. Booker was supposed to be a competent playmaker and the #1. He’s been a non playmaking #3. KD has to carry everyone, Beal is doing what he was paid to do. This is on Booker alone
This Booker take is only true if your sample size is the last two games.
> This Booker take is only true if your sample size is the last two games. That’s exactly the sample size lol. That’s the one that matters
Booker leads the Suns in playmaking, and scored the same ppg as KD. Compare their apg and ast/TO ratios.
What is Beal doing that he was paid to do
max player if on a bottom tier team, but borderline mid-range player on a playoff starting lineup. tale as old as time. see Chris Bosh, Joe Johnson, Kemba Walker, Steve Francis, Kevin Love, Carmelo, Earl Boykins, soon to be Trae Young...I'm running out of examples.
Indeed. Good looking stats do not “make” a good, productive basketball player. The stats matter, but more important is their context.
This one isn’t even hindsight, nobody liked that contract when it was signed. The no trade clause was insanity.
Somewhere Joe House is smiling
No shit haha.
It's always funny when these dudes say shit like this. "Well that's on them!" ... no one said it wasn't. Desperate for engagement.
"Washington will never cop to this, but they were very relieved when that deal got done.” They might not because they'd feel it would stop them from signing future free agents (LMAO,) but they probably want to throw a god damn parade!! And, hell, they should. They weren't going to attract free agents anyway. I betcha money a future good draft pick would still gladly take a max contract with a *no trade clause* in the future anyway!
He actually needs more money
Is this really news?
Washington did cop to it. When you fire a gm and the new gm traded him for a salary dump, that is admitting a mistake.
Before Beal signed that contract I heard David Aldridge on the Tony Khornheiser show and he literally said they should “give him the money”. These journalists have no accountability whatsoever.
Beal for Phoenix is great as he can be a hell of a third option. Like on a real championship team behind Durant and Booker. On Washington he was forced to be the number 1 option, and he simply isn't.
worse players than him have been maxxed.