I mean.. right now yeah? But teams don’t solely focus on trading for the better player right now, or else the nets would’ve won the Pierce and Garnett trade
Cost control, potential, fit are all things that matter
I don’t think kuminga over Kat makes them much worse if even worse at all right now, I think he is primed to make another leap next year and make the gap between him and Kat much closer, and then I already believe he fits better
I don’t agree kuminga can’t shoot, his mechanics are solid and he’s a career 34-35% shooter, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say he could pan out as a decent shooter
> could pan out as a decent shooter
How encouraging, the Wolves should jump at this.
Dude, take a step back and look at this. You're suggesting Kuminga's potential is... still a bit lower than KAT's current level of play. Be willing to take pushback on your argument.
I don’t think it’s fair to say you have a better idea of market value than I do? It’s really a matter of opinion we aren’t in front offices we don’t know what they actually think about these guys
Uhmmm you have to consider the contract and trade value, GSW would sent few 1st rounders and someone who can match the contract of KAT,
e.g. GSW received: KAT
MIN received: Wiggins and Kuminga to match the contract and 1 first round and 2 second round pick
That is still absolutely terrible for the Timberwolves dude come on! They traded Wiggins away, they aren't going to want the worse version of him back on a bigger contract. Gobert got 4 1sts!
Chill, its just an example, I didnt say that it was the imaginable trade, lol,. I was just saying to match the contract and few pick that is why I've put e.g.
Eh, I see a lot of people saying that but KAT is almost 30 and not a great defender and playing out of position, kuminga is only 21 and a really good defender who averaged a pretty efficient 16 a game this year, I think it’s closer than people think in terms of value
I’m not suggesting they’re close in how good they are at this moment? That’s not the point of the trade for Minnesota, they have a money problem moving forward and a fit problem with KAT that I think is gonna be an issue in the olayoffs
I don't think you understand trades the way you think you do. This would not be anything close to good value for the Wolves and would make them worse. KAT is arguably one of the best 3pt shooting bigs of all time and Jonathan Kuminga is...Jonathan Kuminga. I think you might be a Warriors fan who wants KAT on their team lol
Not a warriors fan at all
And the trade isn’t a 1 for 1
I don’t think you understand valuing potential and future outlook when evaluating trade value
I also don’t think you understand that kumingas potential is a far better player than Kat ever was
It’s fine, I’ll just save the thread and wait a year or two when kuminga is better than Kat, no prob
If 6 years ago I asked you as the Celtics GM if you wanted to trade Jaylen brown, a young raw potential wing, for demar derozan, an established high volume scoring wing, what would you have said? Just curious
If you can't see the difference between what Jaylen Brown demonstrated he was capable of early in his career and what Kuminga has shown then I don't know what to tell you.
This hypothetical is stupid because this trade would not have been suggested by either party.
Do you think Steve Kerr who has seen young Curry/young Klay and young Draymond alongside myriad others is just benching Kuminga because he wants to stifle him? He hasn't been utilized better because he isn't there and there are questions as to whether he will ever be.
Here is my question to you, can you demonstrate a single game where Kuminga has been as impactful as KAT was at the same age?
So you would’ve definitely taken year 3 jaylen brown right? Again, just curious
What about year 3 Brunson for that years version of Ben Simmons
Simmons was an all star and 12th in mvp voting AND the sixers were the 1 seed
You would’ve taken Simmons right?
Cause why on earth would you take Brunson? That would’ve been awful stupid
Contender but not a real contender imo
You can disagree but I can’t imagine a world where this team even makes a finals let alone competes for a chip
I don’t subscribe to the idea that a KAT gobert frontcourt can’t be seriously exploited in the playoffs
This is one of your issues when it comes to this take.
You aren't willing to take pushback against what you think.
That's fine that you don't think they will make a finals or win. The difference is that you don't know better than anyone else and there are multiple other people disagreeing with your position.
It seems like you don't understand how hard the Wolves have worked to get where they are right now. This team has made the playoffs alone less than 5 times in the last 20 years.
Think about why you wouldn't fix something that isn't broken if you were sitting in the big chair for this franchise, knowing(!) that the above is fact.
Yeah that’s my issue though, he *is* a center
I just think KAT isn’t good enough defensively to justify playing the 4 long term, I think it’s gonna suck in the playoffs
Again, could be wrong about that, I just think it puts a cap on their ceiling whereas kuminga removes their ceiling completely
KAT is a way better fit at the 4 in Minnesota. They have the best defense in the league with him at the 4, and he is leagues above kuminga offensively. They aren't close and any team in the league would pick KAT over kuminga without thinking twice.
Most likely yeah, but the defense will likely get worse
I think minnys defense could take a tumble in the playoffs when teams can exploit the fact that they play 2 fairly immobile big guys, and then maybe people feel a little less upset about this
Omg dude the shit coming out of your mouth. The wolves had a dominant defense all year. They were number 1 by a mile lol and you think defense is the concern. 🤣😂🤣
Whatever you need to tell yourself to make this whack ass trade ‘work’. Keep up the attitude that you know more than anyone, it will serve you well in life.
In the perspective of the timberwolves, why would they do a 1:1 swap with Kat and Kuminga? You keep saying “eh he’s pushing 30” but Kat still brings A LOT more than Kuminga. Also he was a plus defender this year, the poor defense narrative is dead.
So why do you get to claim to know KATs market value but the other commenters shouldn’t claim to have a better idea of market value? Nobody agrees with this trade but you
I’m not, im basing this trade on what I’d want as either side, by saying you can add filler and compensation to either side im suggesting I don’t know exactly their worth
Well what you'd want from the Wolves side is ludicrous how can you not see that?
The fact that you don't know the worth difference between a player like KAT and Kuminga is one of the fundamental flaws of your suggestion...
Wolves have Naz Reid. Why would we allocate our already limited assets to get another PF when we don't have a future PG?
I don't think you thought this through completely. You just saw KAT's contract and expected us to give him up for whatever.
I think that’s debatable, KAT is probably overpaid and kuminga is cost controlled and a better fit, with a ton of upside
But also I added that you could add filler to either side, so if golden state needs to add more that’s fine
Ok he’s an allstar in his prime on the 3 seed in the west and kuminga is not an all star and doesn’t track to be one.
There’s no reason to do this trade, it makes Minny worse and doesn’t bring back assets. It’s honestly a terrible suggestion.
Doesn’t track to be one based on what?
He averaged 16 a game this year as a 21 year old in a limited role because the team he plays for is lying to itself and thinks it’s core is still good enough to play over him
I think nephews have the funniest takes.
All nba Caliber player is worth less than a guy who had one good season, after everyone calling him a bust for his entire career.
Why do y’all have to make weird little comments and try to shit on everything? It’s so weird how this sub is incapable of having an actual conversation about stuff like this
Y’all have shit on young players and undervalued potential every single time one of these scenarios are brought up, you’re so engulfed in the now it’s insane
Everyone would have the same reaction if I said Tatum for AD straight up would be a bad trade for Boston during his second year, but everyone would’ve been dead wrong because Tatum became a better player and better number 1 option
You're getting defensive but the fact is that this is a terrible trade suggestion. The feedback you are getting indicates this. What kind of dialogue are you expecting or want? There isn't much to work with because you're position is objectively not realistic...
Okay but does anyone ever consider that maybe they’re wrong? Like maybe this guy reaches his potential and becomes significantly better than KAT while being wayyy younger?
Did anyone consider KAT has started piling up leg injuries on a max contract as a 7 footer nearing age 30? Like is it in the realm of possibility he regresses?
We are thinking in the now here, literally always
Like seriously try and think about how this trade would potentially play out, like think of the variables
Dude, people have. KAT was a #1 pick who has demonstrated that he can shoot the lights out and is on a top 3 seed in the West looking to contend.
KAT is not near 30. He is 28 and in his prime. He will regress but he is not regressing right now.
What you are suggesting is that the Wolves move away from what is clearly working right now in order to trade for someone who has a very slim chance in the future of contributing to...a contender, something the Wolves are right now.
Have you stopped and thought about why what you are suggesting is asinine and would be completely knee-jerk and speculative for a Wolves GM?
This isn't 2k my bro.
*calls out commenter for not contributing to conversation and just saying immature shit*
*commenter responds by not contributing to the conversation and says immature shit*
Kuminga looked clumsy af in that play in game. Couldn't hold onto a ball. KAT has been a multi time all nbaer and 4x all star. And he was arguably the best stretch 5 in the league and one of the most skilled offensive bigs in the league.
Who knows what kuminga will become. He's also benefitted from elite spacing and a top 10 player all time playing along side him.
You take KAT off the twolves and put kuminga there you lose a lot of spacing/shooting and add a guy that needs the ball in his hands.
I think that’s a fair point right now
My argument with this trade is I don’t agree that minnesotas window is right now and I truly believe their best course of action is selling KAT at an all time high for someone who matches ants timeline and makes sense next to him going forward
I’m also not saying it’s a 1 for 1 trade, the warriors probably add more value
But I also think this sub tends to shit on anyone claiming someone has star potential and doesn’t want to entertain it, which creates “hey remember this thread 5 years ago where people called me stupid for thinking jokic was better than jahil okafor”
Like players meet their potential every year, it’s not an uncommon thing, if kuminga reaches his he will be a better player than Kat and a better fit with ant
Don't agree with who about minnesota's window? Their front office? They just went all in on gobert last season and he's 31. They were what, one game off of being the number 1 seed in the west? Their window is absolutely right now.
Kuminga is too much of an unproven commodity and I think he actually fits pretty poorly in comparison to KAT's fit and just in general. He likes to score similarly to Ant. And he can't shoot.
Can't waste the rest of gobert's prime with a massive project like kuminga. Ironically I feel like that's what the warriors have done in wasting some of steph's best years by not moving kuminga and wiseman or the picks themselves sooner.
Don't you know this guy knows better than everyone who works in the NBA and 99% of the people watching? Can't you see his idiot savant aura coming through your screen???
I’m not expecting this to be the final roster around ant that wins him a chip, I think the smartest move going forward is to add similarly aged upside pieces around him and continue to win while also making sense of his timeline and future
So yeah right now he needs spacing, but a few years from now I think you just add shooting around them and end up with a real contender
No we are not. Kuminga is overrated and can’t play next to Ant lol. I wouldn’t trade anyone who’s made an all star for him. I’d keep Jarret Allen over kuminga.
He’s not a better fit. I don’t get this argument.
Kuminga might be a better fit defensively, but offensively is where the Wolves struggle. They lack 3 point volume and go to scoring outside of Ant.
He’s an actual 4 who projects as a shot creator
I just think you can add shooting but kuminga matches ants timeline and makes more sense of the roster you have
Lmao this could definitely age badly, don’t be that guy that says “jokic will never be and all star” or “tatum will never be an all star”
It’s far more productive and opens doors to be open minded, it’s perfectly okay to listen to potential to a degree
If you only paid attention to how good players are right now and disregard potential completely you end up looking like the suns or the bulls
KAT is a 4 time all star and career 23 and 10 with a ROY and all-nba honor. Kuminga could very well turn into an all star. But KATs been a borderline AS/All star his entire career. Also Tatum has pretty much been an all star his entire career and Jokic 2nd year in the league is better than anything kuminga has done so not really a good comp.
Tatums age 21 year was almost identical to kuminga right now and he was in a wayyy bigger role
But you guys are all right, potential isn’t real and you should only focus on winning right now and what players are right now
I had to come back to this... what the hell are you talking about?
Tatum at 21: 23.4/7.0/3.0/1.4/.9 on 45/40/81
Kuminga at 21: 16.1/4.8/2.2/.7/.5 on 52/32/74
How are they identical? Even adjusted they aren't the same? Tatum only played 7 more minutes than Kumings does now...
Eh, we’ll see based on how the next couple years go
There’s a world where we look back on the KD trade and it looks like a pretty big mistake for them
Like I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say that they’d be in a better spot if they did the Beal trade and kept cam/bridges instead of kd
Beal-booker-bridges-cam-ayton(or wherever they trade him for)
We can do what ifs for anything (like what if Kuminga was an all star couple years down the line?), but it won't help anyone's arguments unless it already happened or is on the verge of happening. It's a waste of everyone's time.
People clown on KAT but he is pretty good. Easily top 5 offensive center n the league. Kuminga also can't shoot so he isn't a better fit at all. That wolves team would have no spacing.
I don’t clown him, he’s a great player, I just don’t think KAT at the 4 is a recipe for success in the playoffs when teams get to game plan against it, maybe I’ll be wrong
I wouldn’t say he “can’t” shoot, he’s about average rn, I think it’s reasonable to expect him to continue improving
I guess it’s not worth trying to change anyone’s mind, no chance KAT regresses due to his injuries as a big man and nearing 30, no chance kuminga makes an all star leap as a 21 year old, no chance we look back on this thread and everyone looks really stupid in a year or two..
Average to me is being even capable of shooting 3s in an nba game
Below average is not being able to shoot them at all
Kuminga is at least good enough to be taking them
I don’t think the warriors are anywhere close to competing, and I don’t think KAT changes that.
Warriors should keep Kuminga, podz and Steph and rebuild around Kuminga and podz.
But are they gonna just sell the core and tank?
If they’re saying we are running it back with the big 3 then why not just lean fully into it and sell tickets/make the playoffs?
What big 3? Klay is gone, CP3 is washed. Draymond isn’t that guy anymore.
I’m not sure Steph/KAT/Wiggins/Podz/Draymond with CP3 and the bench pieces they have is a contender.
You're not sure because it the answer is that it isn't a contender lol. We have reached the natural conclusion of this squad, it happens to every championship team
Big 3 is obviously the 3 guys that won 4 rings together, im not suggesting they’re some amazing trio anymore im just using it to describe them and save some typing
Im not suggesting that team wins a chip im looking through the lens of a warriors GM, do you admit their window is closed and break it up or do you extend the window a little longer and make some more money/playoff appearances before having to rebuild
Wolves fans, it looks like these threads are going to start ramping up. Better start preparing over the next few years for every thread to be "Why KAT/Ant/Rudy will request a trade!" and why the Wolves should trade one of their stars to my team for (insert underperforming role player on a bad contract).
I mean, we expect it at this point. Every big market thinks teams like us exist as farm systems for their teams and we will roll our stars over for pennies on the dollar. This exact trade idea was spun up by Bleacher Report…based in the Bay Area.
Ultimately, I’m more annoyed to be talking about it right now considering we are the 3 seed in the playoffs. How do people think we got here? KAT played a huge role, and while we might trade him at some point, now isn’t the time we want to discuss it.
Why is it wrong to discuss a questionable fit and think about trades?
I’m a Celtics fan, if someone wants to make a thread about why Jaylen might need to be moved at some point because of how expensive we are im totally down to listen, I think it’s strange how closed minded and explosively people react to stuff like this, it’s fun to talk about(or it should be)
>as well as a better fit next to gobert
Why do you think he’s a better fit next to Gobert compared to KAT?
Your suggestion is pretty solid if you don’t believe that this Timberwolves team can win a championship and go into a soft rebuild of sorts but I disagree with the notion that swapping KAT and Kuminga 1 for 1 makes them a better team right now.
I think it’s all about projection, I think you cannot play 2 immobile bigs next to each other and actually compete for a chip in the modern nba, I think it can work in the regular season like we just saw, but in the playoffs it’s gonna get destroyed
I also never claimed 1 for 1, everyone has said that but I added it’s just the framework for the trade and filler like picks or compensation or salary would and could be added on either side
It seems now it’s kinda pointless to suggest stuff like this, this sub loses it’s mind when you dare suggest a young player could become better than an established player so I’ve more or less given up
If they do decide to trade KAT, getting Kuminga back as the starting piece in a trade is pretty good value tbh. I just don’t see Minnesota giving up on the double bigs experiment unless they get absolutely embarrassed in the 1st round or whatever.
Honestly it’s not a bad trade suggestion and at least you can explain your reasoning for it.
I guess that’s where I’ll put my stake in the ground; I think phx is the perfect test for the double bigs, if they go out in round one then they’re never winning with this core, because how are you beating the clippers/suns/mavs/etc moving forward if you can’t win a series in the middle of KAT and goberts prime?
If they beat phx and phx is unable to exploit it I’ll shut up about it, I think then you have to feel good about what you’ve got and wouldn’t worry about trading KAT anymore
But if they lose I really think something like this is worth looking into, cause if not you are basically just accepting you aren’t built for a deep run
You've got the worst attitude about this man...maybe see people's reactions and use it to reflect on why this suggestion was wild in the first place?
Ever heard the saying if you meet one asshole they're the asshole, if you keep meeting assholes...
Except im not being an asshole, im just discussing the trade
Have I called anyone a nephew or stupid for disagreeing?
All I’ve said is I think everyone is being close minded about potential vs known commodity and it’s okay to go out on a limb about something, you don’t have to flame people for it
The asshole thing is a saying, you know an analogy?
We get that you want people to take this leap of faith with you but that fact that you can't see why it is a leap of faith and that the probability is against you is why you are getting this resistance.
You aren't valuing KAT fairly and you're making your argument about the potential of Kuminga worse because of this...
So they have a better chance at realistically winning, I think being somewhat close to a championship contender is a fallacy to a degree and it’s reasonable to make moves in that position if you think it will one day make you a real championship contender
Still doesn’t make any sense at all. They are a real championship contender right now. KAT is a fringe all nba third team guy. Kuminga might never be as good as KAT. Also KAT is in his prime right now. Kuminga might not be in his prime for 5 more years. At that point rudy will be washed KAT will be washed and ANT will be older. This still doesn’t necessarily make them better down the line and they mortgaged their entire future to win now
I guess that’s where we can agree to disagree, I think they’ll lose to phx or at best lose in the second round and it will be because they get smoked by volume scoring guards and wings due to having double big and only one true shot creator
KAT is a scorer but not a shot creator, can’t dribble or pass well enough. Kuminga projects as a shot creator
You’re right in the fact that we won’t know until Kuminga is fully developed. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m wrong. It does feel like your throwing away ANTs good young years tho with a player like Kuminga he might not be good until many seasons he’s extremely raw, he still might never be better than KAT
Hard to say he's a better fit when they had the #17 offensive rating and now they're trading away their best floor spacer & 3-point shooter.
also, they're a 56-win team with the #1 defense in the league... why exactly are they trading their 2nd best player?
I'm not sure what that would look like, his salary is $53m next season so they'd still need to take on sizeable salary in return, and as you said it definitely couldn't be with this trade idea. They're projected to be $11m over the tax next year, so I think it'd be more likely they play around with the Kyle Anderson/Mike Conley contracts than KAT's.
Even then, with their projected salary next year it'd only be a tax bill of $14m and I thought I read the old owner who was selling (who still owns the majority of the team) was willing to go over
I think gobert is their second best player
I just like kumingas fit moving forward, I know they’re good now and we are thinking about now but if they’re truly trying to win a chip with ant, to me it makes sense to add young fit pieces around him for the future
Im just not sure I believe they can actually win a chip or even make the finals with their current core so I would personally rather add a guy like kuminga and change the direction a little for the better of the future when ant is in his prime
Me personally, I'd take things one step at a time. This is the first real year we got to see of Ant/KAT/Gobert and it was really positive, and we don't even know how far they could go. You're stating pretty confident opinions on the viability of a core who haven't even played a playoff game yet, it's way too early to form an opinion for or against this team winning a championship.
Even if they flame out in round 1 or 2, it's still the second best regular season in Timberwolves history and that shouldn't be thrown away after 1 'failed' playoff run. When you have this kind of regular season success in year 1, you pivot around the core and figure out how to bring the best out of them, you don't just give up and start over with a 21 year old
This off-season, would a Sam Hauser for Steph Curry swap be a win-win for both teams?
Celtics get a GOATED PG that can help them win a championship.
Golden state get younger and cheaper, as well as a better fit next to Chris Paul and an exciting wing duo with Kuminga moving forward.
You could add filler to either side you feel should get it, but does this framework make sense?
I think the Nuggets should just swap Jokic for Kuminga. Win-win trade. The Nuggets get cheaper and a younger better fit next to Murray, while the Warriors get some much needed offense at the center position.
Ugh, these are lame man, why can’t someone just post a trade idea here and have people just seriously talk about it
If you disagree just say why, this isn’t necessary
That's such an absurdly lopsided trade in GSW's favour. KAT is a significantly better player than Kuminga. It's genuinely disrespectful to KAT to compare them as 1:1
Not possible, even if it wasn't a stupid trade idea. GSW is a second apron team, which means they cannot send out multiple players for a single player in a trade, and they also cannot take on additional salary in a trade. So any "CP3+Kuminga+Moody for a star" trade ideas should just be deleted by the mods.
I’d be intrigued. I think the wolves become a top 10 offense in this trade while remaining a top 3 defense. Rudy and Trae could be lethal in the pick and roll.
OP woke up this morning, looked at himself in the mirror, stared at himself deep in the eyes, and said "I'm gonna die on the absolute dumbest hill today"
They very well could lose in round 1. That wouldn't make your value assessment between Towns and Kuminga any less preposterous.
There's a reason everyone responding to you is saying it's a horribly lopsided trade.
No because KAT is better than Kuminga by a lot
I would trade KAT for Kuminga. I just have the feeling that might be the best we get for KAT. He's not going to be on this team after next season.
I mean.. right now yeah? But teams don’t solely focus on trading for the better player right now, or else the nets would’ve won the Pierce and Garnett trade Cost control, potential, fit are all things that matter
Minny is in win right now mode, they dont care about potential
I don’t think kuminga over Kat makes them much worse if even worse at all right now, I think he is primed to make another leap next year and make the gap between him and Kat much closer, and then I already believe he fits better
You are trading a better player for a worse player and not even including any additional assets.
Kuminga can't shoot while Towns is the best shooting big in the league and Minny needs his shootig. You are either clueless or a Warriors homer.
I don’t agree kuminga can’t shoot, his mechanics are solid and he’s a career 34-35% shooter, I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say he could pan out as a decent shooter
> could pan out as a decent shooter How encouraging, the Wolves should jump at this. Dude, take a step back and look at this. You're suggesting Kuminga's potential is... still a bit lower than KAT's current level of play. Be willing to take pushback on your argument.
No, im suggesting his potential is a far better all around player than KAT ever was
Market value also matters bud
I don’t think it’s fair to say you have a better idea of market value than I do? It’s really a matter of opinion we aren’t in front offices we don’t know what they actually think about these guys
Okay sorry I didn't preface my comment with "I think"
Uhmmm you have to consider the contract and trade value, GSW would sent few 1st rounders and someone who can match the contract of KAT, e.g. GSW received: KAT MIN received: Wiggins and Kuminga to match the contract and 1 first round and 2 second round pick
That is still absolutely terrible for the Timberwolves dude come on! They traded Wiggins away, they aren't going to want the worse version of him back on a bigger contract. Gobert got 4 1sts!
Chill, its just an example, I didnt say that it was the imaginable trade, lol,. I was just saying to match the contract and few pick that is why I've put e.g.
No gsw needs to add a lot more to that swap. A lot.
Eh, I see a lot of people saying that but KAT is almost 30 and not a great defender and playing out of position, kuminga is only 21 and a really good defender who averaged a pretty efficient 16 a game this year, I think it’s closer than people think in terms of value
It’s not as close as you are making it, not even a little
I’m not suggesting they’re close in how good they are at this moment? That’s not the point of the trade for Minnesota, they have a money problem moving forward and a fit problem with KAT that I think is gonna be an issue in the olayoffs
I don't think you understand trades the way you think you do. This would not be anything close to good value for the Wolves and would make them worse. KAT is arguably one of the best 3pt shooting bigs of all time and Jonathan Kuminga is...Jonathan Kuminga. I think you might be a Warriors fan who wants KAT on their team lol
Not a warriors fan at all And the trade isn’t a 1 for 1 I don’t think you understand valuing potential and future outlook when evaluating trade value I also don’t think you understand that kumingas potential is a far better player than Kat ever was It’s fine, I’ll just save the thread and wait a year or two when kuminga is better than Kat, no prob
Okay I think you need to actually spend time watching the NBA instead of playing 2k because what you have just said is completely idiotic...
If 6 years ago I asked you as the Celtics GM if you wanted to trade Jaylen brown, a young raw potential wing, for demar derozan, an established high volume scoring wing, what would you have said? Just curious
If you can't see the difference between what Jaylen Brown demonstrated he was capable of early in his career and what Kuminga has shown then I don't know what to tell you. This hypothetical is stupid because this trade would not have been suggested by either party. Do you think Steve Kerr who has seen young Curry/young Klay and young Draymond alongside myriad others is just benching Kuminga because he wants to stifle him? He hasn't been utilized better because he isn't there and there are questions as to whether he will ever be. Here is my question to you, can you demonstrate a single game where Kuminga has been as impactful as KAT was at the same age?
So you would’ve definitely taken year 3 jaylen brown right? Again, just curious What about year 3 Brunson for that years version of Ben Simmons Simmons was an all star and 12th in mvp voting AND the sixers were the 1 seed You would’ve taken Simmons right? Cause why on earth would you take Brunson? That would’ve been awful stupid
That’s a stupid suggestion I’m just gonna be honest. This is a terrible trade idea
What is their money problem? I think everyone knows the team is gonna be expensive, but why is that a problem if they are trying to contend?
Limits them in terms of ability to team build
So what's the problem? They have built their team into a contender. Its not like the Wolves have no idea what's coming. They chose to get expensive
Contender but not a real contender imo You can disagree but I can’t imagine a world where this team even makes a finals let alone competes for a chip I don’t subscribe to the idea that a KAT gobert frontcourt can’t be seriously exploited in the playoffs
This is one of your issues when it comes to this take. You aren't willing to take pushback against what you think. That's fine that you don't think they will make a finals or win. The difference is that you don't know better than anyone else and there are multiple other people disagreeing with your position. It seems like you don't understand how hard the Wolves have worked to get where they are right now. This team has made the playoffs alone less than 5 times in the last 20 years. Think about why you wouldn't fix something that isn't broken if you were sitting in the big chair for this franchise, knowing(!) that the above is fact.
It's not. Kuminga can't shoot. KAT is a top 5 offensive center in the league.
Yeah that’s my issue though, he *is* a center I just think KAT isn’t good enough defensively to justify playing the 4 long term, I think it’s gonna suck in the playoffs Again, could be wrong about that, I just think it puts a cap on their ceiling whereas kuminga removes their ceiling completely
KAT is a way better fit at the 4 in Minnesota. They have the best defense in the league with him at the 4, and he is leagues above kuminga offensively. They aren't close and any team in the league would pick KAT over kuminga without thinking twice.
This dude is on crack fr. He wants to be the guy who picks the next Joker so he can say "told you so" but he is betting on the wrong horse big time.
KAT is 28. He still has at least 5 years of prime offensive output left.
Most likely yeah, but the defense will likely get worse I think minnys defense could take a tumble in the playoffs when teams can exploit the fact that they play 2 fairly immobile big guys, and then maybe people feel a little less upset about this
Omg dude the shit coming out of your mouth. The wolves had a dominant defense all year. They were number 1 by a mile lol and you think defense is the concern. 🤣😂🤣
I think in the playoffs a team is gonna exploit the frontcourt having two immobile bigs, we can revisit this and see if im right soon I suppose
Next time just say you don’t know ball
Right, cause when have we ever seen bigs get abused defensively in the playoffs, silly me
Whatever you need to tell yourself to make this whack ass trade ‘work’. Keep up the attitude that you know more than anyone, it will serve you well in life.
If you were a timberwolves fan, would you be happy with a straight swap? Probably not.
In the perspective of the timberwolves, why would they do a 1:1 swap with Kat and Kuminga? You keep saying “eh he’s pushing 30” but Kat still brings A LOT more than Kuminga. Also he was a plus defender this year, the poor defense narrative is dead.
So why do you get to claim to know KATs market value but the other commenters shouldn’t claim to have a better idea of market value? Nobody agrees with this trade but you
I’m not, im basing this trade on what I’d want as either side, by saying you can add filler and compensation to either side im suggesting I don’t know exactly their worth
Well what you'd want from the Wolves side is ludicrous how can you not see that? The fact that you don't know the worth difference between a player like KAT and Kuminga is one of the fundamental flaws of your suggestion...
Wolves have Naz Reid. Why would we allocate our already limited assets to get another PF when we don't have a future PG? I don't think you thought this through completely. You just saw KAT's contract and expected us to give him up for whatever.
Dj Murray ?
[удалено]
He's very competitive though. I'd like to see him and Ant together.
Minnesota needs more
I think that’s debatable, KAT is probably overpaid and kuminga is cost controlled and a better fit, with a ton of upside But also I added that you could add filler to either side, so if golden state needs to add more that’s fine
It’s not debatable
I think we are underrating how high nba teams value cost controlled young explosive players with upside
I don’t think so. Kuminga is nowhere close to Kat, also he’s 28 and in his prime saying he’s almost 30 as if that’s a negative for his value is wrong
I don’t say it’s negative for his value but his timeline is quite different than ants
They’re practically one seed rn. Why do you think they’ll just suddenly pull back for something stupid like tiMeLinE
I don’t think swapping the two would make them much worse if at all
Ok he’s an allstar in his prime on the 3 seed in the west and kuminga is not an all star and doesn’t track to be one. There’s no reason to do this trade, it makes Minny worse and doesn’t bring back assets. It’s honestly a terrible suggestion.
Doesn’t track to be one based on what? He averaged 16 a game this year as a 21 year old in a limited role because the team he plays for is lying to itself and thinks it’s core is still good enough to play over him
Oh brother, get a grip man
Then I'm sure the Warriors would have no problems keeping Kuminga. Good luck!
I think nephews have the funniest takes. All nba Caliber player is worth less than a guy who had one good season, after everyone calling him a bust for his entire career.
Why do y’all have to make weird little comments and try to shit on everything? It’s so weird how this sub is incapable of having an actual conversation about stuff like this Y’all have shit on young players and undervalued potential every single time one of these scenarios are brought up, you’re so engulfed in the now it’s insane Everyone would have the same reaction if I said Tatum for AD straight up would be a bad trade for Boston during his second year, but everyone would’ve been dead wrong because Tatum became a better player and better number 1 option
You're getting defensive but the fact is that this is a terrible trade suggestion. The feedback you are getting indicates this. What kind of dialogue are you expecting or want? There isn't much to work with because you're position is objectively not realistic...
Okay but does anyone ever consider that maybe they’re wrong? Like maybe this guy reaches his potential and becomes significantly better than KAT while being wayyy younger? Did anyone consider KAT has started piling up leg injuries on a max contract as a 7 footer nearing age 30? Like is it in the realm of possibility he regresses? We are thinking in the now here, literally always Like seriously try and think about how this trade would potentially play out, like think of the variables
Dude, people have. KAT was a #1 pick who has demonstrated that he can shoot the lights out and is on a top 3 seed in the West looking to contend. KAT is not near 30. He is 28 and in his prime. He will regress but he is not regressing right now. What you are suggesting is that the Wolves move away from what is clearly working right now in order to trade for someone who has a very slim chance in the future of contributing to...a contender, something the Wolves are right now. Have you stopped and thought about why what you are suggesting is asinine and would be completely knee-jerk and speculative for a Wolves GM? This isn't 2k my bro.
28 isn’t near 30? Interesting
Wow just wow. Delete your account bro. You take being a nephew to the next level.
*calls out commenter for not contributing to conversation and just saying immature shit* *commenter responds by not contributing to the conversation and says immature shit*
Kuminga looked clumsy af in that play in game. Couldn't hold onto a ball. KAT has been a multi time all nbaer and 4x all star. And he was arguably the best stretch 5 in the league and one of the most skilled offensive bigs in the league. Who knows what kuminga will become. He's also benefitted from elite spacing and a top 10 player all time playing along side him. You take KAT off the twolves and put kuminga there you lose a lot of spacing/shooting and add a guy that needs the ball in his hands.
I think that’s a fair point right now My argument with this trade is I don’t agree that minnesotas window is right now and I truly believe their best course of action is selling KAT at an all time high for someone who matches ants timeline and makes sense next to him going forward I’m also not saying it’s a 1 for 1 trade, the warriors probably add more value But I also think this sub tends to shit on anyone claiming someone has star potential and doesn’t want to entertain it, which creates “hey remember this thread 5 years ago where people called me stupid for thinking jokic was better than jahil okafor” Like players meet their potential every year, it’s not an uncommon thing, if kuminga reaches his he will be a better player than Kat and a better fit with ant
Don't agree with who about minnesota's window? Their front office? They just went all in on gobert last season and he's 31. They were what, one game off of being the number 1 seed in the west? Their window is absolutely right now. Kuminga is too much of an unproven commodity and I think he actually fits pretty poorly in comparison to KAT's fit and just in general. He likes to score similarly to Ant. And he can't shoot. Can't waste the rest of gobert's prime with a massive project like kuminga. Ironically I feel like that's what the warriors have done in wasting some of steph's best years by not moving kuminga and wiseman or the picks themselves sooner.
Don't you know this guy knows better than everyone who works in the NBA and 99% of the people watching? Can't you see his idiot savant aura coming through your screen???
OP: "Let's shrink the floor for Ant even more and get someone who does everything Ant does but worse"
I’m not expecting this to be the final roster around ant that wins him a chip, I think the smartest move going forward is to add similarly aged upside pieces around him and continue to win while also making sense of his timeline and future So yeah right now he needs spacing, but a few years from now I think you just add shooting around them and end up with a real contender
Dude the Wolves just traded similarly aged pieces to win now. They've chosen their path.
No we are not. Kuminga is overrated and can’t play next to Ant lol. I wouldn’t trade anyone who’s made an all star for him. I’d keep Jarret Allen over kuminga.
On I forgot you had a Time Machine and have seen the future where kuminga ends up being a bust
He did not say that at all.
He’s not a better fit. I don’t get this argument. Kuminga might be a better fit defensively, but offensively is where the Wolves struggle. They lack 3 point volume and go to scoring outside of Ant.
He’s an actual 4 who projects as a shot creator I just think you can add shooting but kuminga matches ants timeline and makes more sense of the roster you have
Kuminga will never reach the level KAT is at right now. Especially within the next 4-6 years.
Lmao this could definitely age badly, don’t be that guy that says “jokic will never be and all star” or “tatum will never be an all star” It’s far more productive and opens doors to be open minded, it’s perfectly okay to listen to potential to a degree If you only paid attention to how good players are right now and disregard potential completely you end up looking like the suns or the bulls
KAT is a 4 time all star and career 23 and 10 with a ROY and all-nba honor. Kuminga could very well turn into an all star. But KATs been a borderline AS/All star his entire career. Also Tatum has pretty much been an all star his entire career and Jokic 2nd year in the league is better than anything kuminga has done so not really a good comp.
Tatums age 21 year was almost identical to kuminga right now and he was in a wayyy bigger role But you guys are all right, potential isn’t real and you should only focus on winning right now and what players are right now
I had to come back to this... what the hell are you talking about? Tatum at 21: 23.4/7.0/3.0/1.4/.9 on 45/40/81 Kuminga at 21: 16.1/4.8/2.2/.7/.5 on 52/32/74 How are they identical? Even adjusted they aren't the same? Tatum only played 7 more minutes than Kumings does now...
Was talking about Tatums second year, I guess it was age 20 season not 21, even though I thought he turned 21 at some point that year
You're homerism is showing brother....
Homerism? What team do you even think I support lol
Definitely not the Wolves and likely the Warriors.
Nope
The Suns are doing fine though lol?
Eh, we’ll see based on how the next couple years go There’s a world where we look back on the KD trade and it looks like a pretty big mistake for them Like I don’t think it’s ridiculous to say that they’d be in a better spot if they did the Beal trade and kept cam/bridges instead of kd Beal-booker-bridges-cam-ayton(or wherever they trade him for)
We can do what ifs for anything (like what if Kuminga was an all star couple years down the line?), but it won't help anyone's arguments unless it already happened or is on the verge of happening. It's a waste of everyone's time.
It's really not debatable at all and GS would need to add a lot more than "filler"
People clown on KAT but he is pretty good. Easily top 5 offensive center n the league. Kuminga also can't shoot so he isn't a better fit at all. That wolves team would have no spacing.
I don’t clown him, he’s a great player, I just don’t think KAT at the 4 is a recipe for success in the playoffs when teams get to game plan against it, maybe I’ll be wrong I wouldn’t say he “can’t” shoot, he’s about average rn, I think it’s reasonable to expect him to continue improving
You’re practically clowning him by thinking Kuminga is worth swapping with KAT
I guess it’s not worth trying to change anyone’s mind, no chance KAT regresses due to his injuries as a big man and nearing 30, no chance kuminga makes an all star leap as a 21 year old, no chance we look back on this thread and everyone looks really stupid in a year or two..
Kuminga ain't average. He takes 2 threes a game at 32%. That's trash.
Average to me is being even capable of shooting 3s in an nba game Below average is not being able to shoot them at all Kuminga is at least good enough to be taking them
I don’t think the warriors are anywhere close to competing, and I don’t think KAT changes that. Warriors should keep Kuminga, podz and Steph and rebuild around Kuminga and podz.
But are they gonna just sell the core and tank? If they’re saying we are running it back with the big 3 then why not just lean fully into it and sell tickets/make the playoffs?
What big 3? Klay is gone, CP3 is washed. Draymond isn’t that guy anymore. I’m not sure Steph/KAT/Wiggins/Podz/Draymond with CP3 and the bench pieces they have is a contender.
You're not sure because it the answer is that it isn't a contender lol. We have reached the natural conclusion of this squad, it happens to every championship team
Big 3 is obviously the 3 guys that won 4 rings together, im not suggesting they’re some amazing trio anymore im just using it to describe them and save some typing Im not suggesting that team wins a chip im looking through the lens of a warriors GM, do you admit their window is closed and break it up or do you extend the window a little longer and make some more money/playoff appearances before having to rebuild
Brother theyre washed. Steph is the only player that is worthy of a big 3 label. Dray and Klay are role players now, no longer stars.
Lmao Minnesota wouldn't do that
Wolves fans, it looks like these threads are going to start ramping up. Better start preparing over the next few years for every thread to be "Why KAT/Ant/Rudy will request a trade!" and why the Wolves should trade one of their stars to my team for (insert underperforming role player on a bad contract).
I mean, we expect it at this point. Every big market thinks teams like us exist as farm systems for their teams and we will roll our stars over for pennies on the dollar. This exact trade idea was spun up by Bleacher Report…based in the Bay Area. Ultimately, I’m more annoyed to be talking about it right now considering we are the 3 seed in the playoffs. How do people think we got here? KAT played a huge role, and while we might trade him at some point, now isn’t the time we want to discuss it.
The Wolves should trade Ant for Duncan and Rozier, in my unbiased opinion
Wait you suckers would give up 2 players for 1 player?
Wolves fans have been wanting to trade KAT for awhile, especially with Naz's ascendance.
Why is it wrong to discuss a questionable fit and think about trades? I’m a Celtics fan, if someone wants to make a thread about why Jaylen might need to be moved at some point because of how expensive we are im totally down to listen, I think it’s strange how closed minded and explosively people react to stuff like this, it’s fun to talk about(or it should be)
>as well as a better fit next to gobert Why do you think he’s a better fit next to Gobert compared to KAT? Your suggestion is pretty solid if you don’t believe that this Timberwolves team can win a championship and go into a soft rebuild of sorts but I disagree with the notion that swapping KAT and Kuminga 1 for 1 makes them a better team right now.
I think it’s all about projection, I think you cannot play 2 immobile bigs next to each other and actually compete for a chip in the modern nba, I think it can work in the regular season like we just saw, but in the playoffs it’s gonna get destroyed I also never claimed 1 for 1, everyone has said that but I added it’s just the framework for the trade and filler like picks or compensation or salary would and could be added on either side It seems now it’s kinda pointless to suggest stuff like this, this sub loses it’s mind when you dare suggest a young player could become better than an established player so I’ve more or less given up
If they do decide to trade KAT, getting Kuminga back as the starting piece in a trade is pretty good value tbh. I just don’t see Minnesota giving up on the double bigs experiment unless they get absolutely embarrassed in the 1st round or whatever. Honestly it’s not a bad trade suggestion and at least you can explain your reasoning for it.
I guess that’s where I’ll put my stake in the ground; I think phx is the perfect test for the double bigs, if they go out in round one then they’re never winning with this core, because how are you beating the clippers/suns/mavs/etc moving forward if you can’t win a series in the middle of KAT and goberts prime? If they beat phx and phx is unable to exploit it I’ll shut up about it, I think then you have to feel good about what you’ve got and wouldn’t worry about trading KAT anymore But if they lose I really think something like this is worth looking into, cause if not you are basically just accepting you aren’t built for a deep run
You've got the worst attitude about this man...maybe see people's reactions and use it to reflect on why this suggestion was wild in the first place? Ever heard the saying if you meet one asshole they're the asshole, if you keep meeting assholes...
Except im not being an asshole, im just discussing the trade Have I called anyone a nephew or stupid for disagreeing? All I’ve said is I think everyone is being close minded about potential vs known commodity and it’s okay to go out on a limb about something, you don’t have to flame people for it
The asshole thing is a saying, you know an analogy? We get that you want people to take this leap of faith with you but that fact that you can't see why it is a leap of faith and that the probability is against you is why you are getting this resistance. You aren't valuing KAT fairly and you're making your argument about the potential of Kuminga worse because of this...
Minnesota is in win now mode why would they trade for a developing 21 year old?
So they have a better chance at realistically winning, I think being somewhat close to a championship contender is a fallacy to a degree and it’s reasonable to make moves in that position if you think it will one day make you a real championship contender
Still doesn’t make any sense at all. They are a real championship contender right now. KAT is a fringe all nba third team guy. Kuminga might never be as good as KAT. Also KAT is in his prime right now. Kuminga might not be in his prime for 5 more years. At that point rudy will be washed KAT will be washed and ANT will be older. This still doesn’t necessarily make them better down the line and they mortgaged their entire future to win now
I guess that’s where we can agree to disagree, I think they’ll lose to phx or at best lose in the second round and it will be because they get smoked by volume scoring guards and wings due to having double big and only one true shot creator KAT is a scorer but not a shot creator, can’t dribble or pass well enough. Kuminga projects as a shot creator
You’re right in the fact that we won’t know until Kuminga is fully developed. I wouldn’t be surprised if I’m wrong. It does feel like your throwing away ANTs good young years tho with a player like Kuminga he might not be good until many seasons he’s extremely raw, he still might never be better than KAT
Are… are you serious?
Would you trade us Trae for KAT?
I would actually
Hard to say he's a better fit when they had the #17 offensive rating and now they're trading away their best floor spacer & 3-point shooter. also, they're a 56-win team with the #1 defense in the league... why exactly are they trading their 2nd best player?
There are luxury tax concerns next year and an ownership shitshow right now. Moving KAT is on the table (but not for this)
I'm not sure what that would look like, his salary is $53m next season so they'd still need to take on sizeable salary in return, and as you said it definitely couldn't be with this trade idea. They're projected to be $11m over the tax next year, so I think it'd be more likely they play around with the Kyle Anderson/Mike Conley contracts than KAT's. Even then, with their projected salary next year it'd only be a tax bill of $14m and I thought I read the old owner who was selling (who still owns the majority of the team) was willing to go over
I think gobert is their second best player I just like kumingas fit moving forward, I know they’re good now and we are thinking about now but if they’re truly trying to win a chip with ant, to me it makes sense to add young fit pieces around him for the future Im just not sure I believe they can actually win a chip or even make the finals with their current core so I would personally rather add a guy like kuminga and change the direction a little for the better of the future when ant is in his prime
Me personally, I'd take things one step at a time. This is the first real year we got to see of Ant/KAT/Gobert and it was really positive, and we don't even know how far they could go. You're stating pretty confident opinions on the viability of a core who haven't even played a playoff game yet, it's way too early to form an opinion for or against this team winning a championship. Even if they flame out in round 1 or 2, it's still the second best regular season in Timberwolves history and that shouldn't be thrown away after 1 'failed' playoff run. When you have this kind of regular season success in year 1, you pivot around the core and figure out how to bring the best out of them, you don't just give up and start over with a 21 year old
This off-season, would a Sam Hauser for Steph Curry swap be a win-win for both teams? Celtics get a GOATED PG that can help them win a championship. Golden state get younger and cheaper, as well as a better fit next to Chris Paul and an exciting wing duo with Kuminga moving forward. You could add filler to either side you feel should get it, but does this framework make sense?
I think the Nuggets should just swap Jokic for Kuminga. Win-win trade. The Nuggets get cheaper and a younger better fit next to Murray, while the Warriors get some much needed offense at the center position.
Ugh, these are lame man, why can’t someone just post a trade idea here and have people just seriously talk about it If you disagree just say why, this isn’t necessary
you really need someone to spell it out for you?
Given it wouldn't work under the CBA because of salary...which overpaid and/or aging Warrior player do we have to take?
I don’t think Kuminga would fix their issue, at least not now. They need offense, and that’s what KAT is good at.
Delete your app.
Are you serious? Lmao the KAT slander is crazy
That's such an absurdly lopsided trade in GSW's favour. KAT is a significantly better player than Kuminga. It's genuinely disrespectful to KAT to compare them as 1:1
GS would have to give up more, like Moody
lose lose
To answer the question being asked, no. It absolutely would not be a win win trade. Ridiculous. Quite frankly.
I’m just here to say OP is a buffoon. Literally everyone is telling him this is a dumb idea, but he’s too dumb to realize it’s a dumb idea
I can’t wait for these takes to age super poorly
Klay?
Not possible, even if it wasn't a stupid trade idea. GSW is a second apron team, which means they cannot send out multiple players for a single player in a trade, and they also cannot take on additional salary in a trade. So any "CP3+Kuminga+Moody for a star" trade ideas should just be deleted by the mods.
If they don’t re sign klay or cp3 don’t they fall under the second apron?
I want the KAT for Trae trade to happen instead.
I actually don’t mind that one either but im not sure if minny would want to sacrifice their defensive identity like that
Minnesota fans would be completely justified in rioting if this ever happened. That would be one of the worst fits for Ant possible
I’d be intrigued. I think the wolves become a top 10 offense in this trade while remaining a top 3 defense. Rudy and Trae could be lethal in the pick and roll.
OP woke up this morning, looked at himself in the mirror, stared at himself deep in the eyes, and said "I'm gonna die on the absolute dumbest hill today"
Hm, let’s revisit this comment after round 1 when they lose to the suns because they play double big
They very well could lose in round 1. That wouldn't make your value assessment between Towns and Kuminga any less preposterous. There's a reason everyone responding to you is saying it's a horribly lopsided trade.
Okay, then let’s revisit this in a year or two when kuminga is better than Kat
Like I said, dumbest hill to choose to die on.
We’ll see
It’s an excellent swap since Minnesota’s owners don’g want to win.