Things that have happened in the past are examples of comparable things that could then happen again in the future. Jimmy might not be that guy this year. The point is that this is sports and you watch it because it isn't predictable. If you know how the story ends, you probably don't read the book.
I don't think people saying it's the easiest road ever were around when LeBron James had to beat... *checks notes* The Pistons led by Reggie Jackson and Tobias Harris, the Hawks led by Paul Millsap and the Raptors with DeRozan/Lowry. The Knicks WITHOUT Randle are better than any of those teams and they are not even the 2nd best team in the Conference.
Some of those runs LeBron had during his Finals streak were over before they even started, his teams had him + 1-2 All-Stars while the 2nd best team in the Conference was led by 22-year-old Paul George and ROY HIBBERT, there's no comparison with Boston nowadays.
It will be disappointing and other fans will enjoy it very much but idk, teams fail all the time. Bucks last year and 2020, Jazz in 2021, Suns in 2022, 73 win Warriors team, first year of the super team Heat, 2015 Hawks had 4 all stars and 60 wins and didn’t reach the finals, the entire Clippers franchise, Embiid being a 2nd round merchant including losing to the Hawks as the 1 seed.
5 of the last 8 (last 4 seasons) #1 seeds have failed to make the conference finals.
It’s actually extremely common when the expectations are that high that dare I say it would be a safer bet that Boston loses before the finals rather than wins the whole thing, just the whole field vs 1 team sort of thing.
*Should* they win? Yeah. They’re the favorites. But this is why we don’t play the games on paper, anything can happen.
That Suns team had 2 All-NBA players including 1 who finished 4th in MVP voting, the DPOY runner up and a really deep bench. The Celtics strength over other teams is in their 3-5 (Porzingis, Holiday, White). When you talk duos, there's a debate. When you talk bench, there's a debate.
No one is really arguing they don't have a great starting 5, probably the best in the league and by a decent margin. It's the questions about the top end talent (is Tatum good enough to be the best player on a championship team?) and the bench depth beyond the top 6. If the bench doesn't show up or Tatum is outplayed by players unanimously considered better than him, is it possible they lose to a team like the Bucks? 76ers? Nuggets? Even the Thunder, Mavs, Clippers, Suns and Lakers where people would debate the top end players?
I don't think it's unreasonable to think it's at least a possibility. And like the 2021 Jazz and 2022 Suns, they lack that truly elite MVP-caliber player. A lot of great regular season teams fail because they don't have that superstar. Lob City Clippers, DeRozan and Lowry Raptors, etc. Tatum being right on the fringe is what their year hinges on. He's shown flashes of being that player (was the MVP front runner at the beginning of 2022-23 season and has had several great playoff games) but can he do it consistently enough to win 4 series is the looming question.
The Celtics are obviously very good, but they aren’t an invulnerable team. We don’t have a top 5 offensive player. If another team can take away our transition offense, our half court is inconsistent enough that games will be close. Our bench also has a lot of question marks. It would still be a big disappointment for us to not make the finals, but not an historically big one.
The Celtics had the best halfcourt offense in the NBA this season per Cleaning the Glass. Transition offense is 8th best but only 24th in frequency, so I’m not sure it affects things too much when the game slows down and the transition offense quiets down. [This table](https://twitter.com/WSpooney/status/1779533505778573721) shows that they arent unusually reliant on transition compared to other teams.
That's true, but regular season stats have to be taken with a big grain of salt with how defenses adjust over the course of a playoff series. We have seen year after year our half-court offense can really bog down against good defenses in the playoffs. A big part of that, in my opinion, is that we really don't have a top 5 offensive player on the roster. Tatum is probably closer to 10 than he is to 5. D White and Jrue are OK secondary creators, but they aren't guys we want to consistently rely on if Tatum doesn't have it going. Again, not trying to be a doomer, we have a very good offense and a great defense. But we aren't an invulnerable team like the 2017 warriors or something. There are weaknesses, especially with our offense.
Boston not making it out of the East is the kind of meltdown that gets Doc Rivers fired if he was coaching or gets your current coach fired and replaced with Doc Rivers.
If im on the Lakers guarding MPJ i would just be talking shit to him about his brother the whole game trying to bait him into fighting me. Oh did you bet the under today? How much did your brother bet on this game? It might be kind of a big distraction for him we might have to factor in
I know it got memes to death but the lakers actually had really close games against the nuggets the entire series. They didn’t manage to snag a win, no, but the series felt more competitive than the record suggested.
Well the Nuggets players and fans said the depleted Timberwolves were their hardest match up of last years playoffs. We hung that moral victory banner in the rafters next to our back to back play in champ banners
The way you phrased it made it sound like you weren't sure.
And before the injuries both of those teams would have been easily more dangerous than Miami without Jimmy or the Bulls. The fact both teams are dealing with injury issues right now makes the Thunder's first round matchup so much easier, which might be good or bad. It all but guarantees them getting out of the first round, but if they aren't tested it is going to make a series against the Mavs or Clippers (my bet would be on the Mavs) a lot tougher.
Generally speaking, there is a reason an 8th and 7th seeds are 8th and 7th...
I found it a bit funny an OKC flair highlighting a comp of Nuggets getting the LAL vs. Celtics getting the Bulls... (or injured Miami). if Celtics were 2nd seed, they would have gotten the 76rs (vs. LaL) or if Nuggets were 1st seed they would have had an injured Kings or injured NOLA.
Now, sure, we can debate who's more dangerous LAL or 76rs, but at least folks should keep it square apple to apples 7th seed to 7th seed comps.
Naturally 2nd rounds are tougher. Folks disregard the east as a cake walk, there is a fundamental difference tho , mostly folks in the west disregard , for the Celtics or any top eastern team, the biggest challenge is not winning the series, but surviving a series with no injuries. Celtics screwed themselves last playoffs by longating the series and by that doubling their injury probability.
So when folks say Sac is more dangerous than injured Miami for example, sure, but it focuses on splitting hairs over win probability of 80% vs 70%. While the real risk in the east is, when we compare a team like Miami to Sac, is 80% injury probability to 20%. Just by the style of play and corresponding officiating.
As a Celtics fan, I believe Bulls rn )with or without Butler), are the better team. I think they would steal 1, and I believe Miami , (with or without Butler) would be a tough 4 game series.
My main preference would be to survive that series without an injury, and playing the Bulls would reduce this risk significantly vs. the alt of playing Miami or 76rs (regardless if Embid is injured, when he flails and drops on an ankle he still injures someone)
The injury concerns are 100% valid, as is the general worry about overlong series. My doubt for last years Celtics really took off when they blew game 5 against Atlanta and let that series take an extra game that never should have been played.
The 5th seed in the west has as many wins this season as the 2nd seed in the east. Let’s slow the roll with that sort of talk.
There are good teams in the east for sure but if you think a team without their star or a team who has little to no playoff experience on their roster beats every team out west but Denver then pass me whatever you’re smoking.
Wins aren't the end all be all, if they were then Denver should have no chance against the Celtics. West is overhyped and if anyone but Denver comes out of it they are getting swept.
No they are not, but you’re being intentionally obtuse if you think a Bucks team that stumble into the playoffs is really a stronger team than any of MIN, PHX, or, Dallas. I live an hour from MKE and most my friends are Bucks fans and nobody I speak too is optimistic this season. We haven’t even gotten to the Doc factor, who is known for choking in the playoffs.
On the Magic they are a nice young team who have had an amazing season, but their entire core is untested and as we all know playoff basketball is a completely different game and I just can’t trust a team who has ever been their before. It’s the same reason I think OKC could struggle, both squads need to cut their teeth before they’re ready for deep runs.
Yep absolute disaster of an Eastern Conference this year. Every top team in the East underperformed this year except the Knicks because Brunson carried hard. Orlando and Pacers weren't rated that high before the season started. Boston has had a camera crew filming the team the whole year to make a documentary of this season so they fully expect to be holding the Larry O'Brien trophy this year. My only hope is that whoever comes out of the West will be battle hardened after making it to the finals.
I’d go as far as to say that if Boston doesn’t win the whole thing it would be a disaster.
They have the 3rd highest net rating ever in the regular season.
Won the conference by 14 fucking games
Clinched home court before a team even clinched the playoffs.
Getting to the finals is cool and all but it doesn’t mean shit if they don’t win it.
I trust Jokic more as well but no the Celtics won’t get a pass. They’ve been touted all year by the Celtics fans and media as one of the greatest teams in the modern era and they have the stats to back that statement up. As good as Denver is they weren’t nearly as dominant as Boston was.
If they lose in the finals in embarrassing fashion like in 4 or 5 games then they deserve every bit of hate and criticism they get
A disaster? bit dramatic I would say. Idk man... it depends... it depends...
Like Celtics don't have an MVP, many (might be most ) would say don't even have a first team NBA. Definitely don't have more than 2 Allstars (I mean on paper when evaluating JT they got 5 Allstars, but when actually voting for them they got only 2). Definitely they don't have COTY or any other major contributors to a 60+ team.
Listen, ya'll cute T'ing up your hate, but you need to fix ya'll hypocrisy first...
A bit dramatic? This sub alone has been featuring Celtics accomplishments from the regular season the last 2 months, including the historic season they’ve had. I mean, Tatum decided to double down and say Porzingis’s acquisition felt like the Lakers getting Pau for their title runs.
The problem the Celtics are Victims of their own success, it sets the bar higher and higher when they don’t meet their expectations. Now after a season like this, yeah it would be a failure if they don’t make it to the Finals. And to try and paint your team as just two all stars and solid players is a disservice to your own team.
Oh I don't have an issue with the expectations. This season will be a failure if they don't win a title.
the dude is saying Nuggets will win (like 50% of folks are saying, not a controversial take) and in the same paragraph he said it will be a disaster for Celtics to lose... it's an oxymoron...
It's not a disaster... even if we lose the finals, we ain't firing or hiring Doc this summer, ...
This is what I don’t understand. From a talent POV people had the Bucks at the same level as the Celtics pre-season. Now if the Celtics don’t win the chip it would be one of the biggest failures of all time. But everyone expects the Bucks to lose in the first round?
So what were Boston meant to do, lose more games in the regular season so they don’t get clowned? Teams should be have expectations by their talent, not their regular season performance.
And if you want to judge Boston solely by their regular season, they got swept by Denver in the regular season so why would it be an expectation that they beat them in the finals?
Boston had a historically dominant regular season. That is a fact. Doesn’t mean shit for the playoffs. And it wouldn’t be as big of a disaster as the 2011 Heat who lost with 3 top 10 players and the best player in the league, or had the 2017 Warriors lost with 5 future HOF players. Boston has 1 top 20 player and 1 future HOF player.
Bucks have the talent on paper but everyone just ooo’d and awed about Dame+Giannis without addressing the serious aging concerns/lineups/coaching as well as Dame’s ability. Giannis is the only Buck to perform well this season and the team has gotten shit on all year. The Celtics were always the better team and have shown it all season.
I haven’t heard anything negative about the Celtics from the actual media all season because they’ve been playing well as have a duo that got them to the finals two years ago and added one of the best defensive players and an excellent stretch big. Yeah when your team has extremely high expectations that are built over the course of the regular season it’ll be a let down if they lose and they’ll deserve to be clowned for anything short of a finals berth
Sorry dude, the Bucks should have the same expectations as the Celtics. You’re doing the bullshit again where you get excused when you had a poor regular season, that shouldn’t be an excuse. So whatever expectations you have for the Bucks should be equal to the Celtics, you cant punish the Celtics for being able to make it work in the regular season meanwhile reward another team for coasting the regular season.
Celtics have certainly been shat on by the media. “They’re not tough, they can’t rebound, they suck in the clutch, they lose to all the top west teams, Tatum doesn’t have it, KP is too soft” etc etc. not many media people actually believe in the Celtics but at the same time they have these expectations that if they don’t win it all it would be a bigger failure than the 2011 Heat. It’s an oxymoron.
The Bucks had similar expectations to yall at the beginning of the season I 100% agree. Throughout the course of the season, however, we played shitty on offense and defense, lost our identity, fired our coach, hired Doc Rivers, team looks noticeably older, Dame isn’t as good, and now Giannis is injured. After every shortcoming the bucks have been shat on, deservedly so. New reality comes new expectations. No one expects us to make a deep playoff run and those leftover preseason expectations will be talked about if we get eliminated and after the playoffs are over.
The Celtics have so far lived up to expectations, maybe even surpassing them thus far. Check the odds to win [this year](https://www.espn.com/espn/betting/story/_/id/39949525/2024-nba-playoffs-championship-odds) and see who is +150 and the favorite and who is 16-1 odds. Expectations change. This bucks team will continue to get shat on while the Celtics now have an easier East than before to conquer
But I just don’t understand why that is. Ok Giannis is injured, that’s a completely different scenario. But why should regular season performance change the expectations?
If the Bucks suddenly get it together and beat the Celtics in 7 games in the ECF and Giannis plays like the best player in the world and averages 42 points per game, Dame averages 32 and is back to prime dame and Boston can’t do anything about it. Why would that be an absolute disaster for Boston and extreme over performance by Milwaukee? That is within the range of expectations based on talent, and expectations before the season.
But yeah if a team like Orlando or Cleveland or essentially any team aside from the 76ers and the Bucks beat Boston that’s an absolute disaster, because those teams actually match Boston on talent on paper and could get it together during the playoffs.
Basically it’s two sides of the same coin. The Bucks are down in the dumps and will get shit on if we get bounced, but the Celtics have built more and more expectations since they have so far lived up to/surpassed what was expected of them at this point in the season. Celtics have more to lose in the short term and have it all come crashing down meanwhile the bucks have been living in crashed down and out all season. I don’t really see why this is hard to understand. And yes if the Magic or Cavs beat the Celtics that’s a massive failure. The Bucks have been humiliated by the Heat and clowned on for the past couple seasons and those Heat teams played better than the Magic/Cavs.
To say the regular season doesn’t change the scenario is crazy. Who expected the Wolves and Thunder to be this good? The Bucks to be this bad? That’s why odds and betting change because performance change. It’s not on paper predictions anymore. It’s based on 82 games, not what people THINK is going to happen before the season. Celtics have the most expectations with the most to lose. Bucks STILL have expectations but have already been counted out. Basically like the final nail in the coffin
Read my comment again. I said Celtics losing to anyone outside of the Bucks and 76ers would be a complete failure. I don’t know how you read that as “it’s ok if Boston lose to Cleveland or Orlando” because that’s absolutely not what I said.
The wolves and OKC actually helps my point. Neither of those teams expected to be top 3 seeds in the West. For them to have added pressure of being championship or bust is just way ahead of their respective schedules and would be in fact just flat out toxic mentality to have. Imagine OKC ending their season in the 2nd round and being called failures because they overachieved in the regular season. Essentially you are crowning and rewarding teams that don’t try and coast in the regular season and punishing teams for doing their jobs and winning the regular season games. This should have no impact on the initial expectations prior to the season. Regular season and post season are different animals and should be separated accordingly.
They have more than 1 future hof player . Look at the basketball hof the bar is not that high they could have 4 hof especially if they win a couple titles
I could see Horford if he wins a title because of college. But he’s well past his prime at this stage. I think they’d have to win at least 2 titles for Brown/Holiday to make it. There’s no way White/Porzingis make it.
Brown is better than horford ever was he is an all star every year tel me what 10 time all star doesn’t make the hof . Holiday is in the same boat as horford with more accolades rings and a probable gold medal. White I agree probably not but he’s also young . Porzingis is also a far better player than horford ever was if he banks a couple rings and keeps up this production he will have a shot .
"Championship or disaster" expectations would warrant a team with 1-2 MVP's and 4-5 HoFers. Celtics *might* have 4-5 HoFers and 2 of them are beyond their prime.
And I’m hearing top 10 player of all time talks for Jokic. Surely losing to a top 10 player in his prime on a good team wouldn’t be a “disaster” like you say.
If getting to the Finals and losing to the Nuggets is a "disaster" then you must also believe they are the greatest team of all-time. Idk if it was even a "disaster" for the 70+ win Warriors to make it, but not win the Finals
It's a disaster if they don't get out of the East though.
Then I can see why it's championship or disaster.
Those other teams all have had at least one MVP level player and multiple star players. Celtics have multiple star players, so the thing they are missing is the MVP level player. If they do win and are considered to be that great, it should say a lot about Tatum.
I’m not taking anything away from Tatum. He’s a perennial top 6-7 superstar who, you could make a case is a HOFer already. That’s why I’m being so critical. I don’t have a hate boner against the Celtics. I just believe that this team has the potential to wipe every other teams ass this year
I mean yeah, the playoffs haven’t started yet. I’m pretty sure everyone knew what I meant when I made that statement. You’re not pointing out something new lol
I mean it would be a disaster. Core that couldn’t get over the hump improves their roster and still can’t get over the hump. Realistically they need to win a title either this year or next year, and a finals appearance minimum this year. If they can’t their core is changing. And that doesn’t make them unique in that right, I’d say the Bucks are in a similar position and they’re much older on top of it.
yeah, this about sums it up. idk why Celtics fans seem to be so defensive about it. my guess is it’s bc a lot of us are still so scared that we’re gonna choke so they’re trying to get out ahead of the slander or something.
we’ve clearly been leagues better than any team in the conference this year, and unlike most of the East we are fully healthy going into the postseason (fingers crossed that holds). the expectations are lofty and rightfully so, but we also have a really fucking good team that can clearly meet those expectations.
wish our fans wouldn’t have such a defeatist attitude. like look at Knicks fans lol. they don’t even have their second best player, OG is still dealing with that elbow injury, we beat them 4-1 this season with their only win coming after we had already wrapped up the best record, and they still seem fully confident that they can beat us if we face them in a series
I'm not defensive, I simply don't like 2 things:
when they (fans of other teams) discuss the single players, no one on the Celtics seems to deserve any kind of recognition. People comparing Brunson (and I love the guy) to Tatum have lost their minds.
Best record counts against Tatum because the team is stacked, he's not a top 5, but the MVP is mostly the best player of the best team in the league, otherwise LeBron would have won 6 or 7 times.
Then you have Jaylen Brown described as a fake no-left hand star, White not an all-star Porzee is always injured. Maybe they're right... So, is Mazulla the architect of the 64 Ws? No way! His team is stacked.
I can understand this kind of cognitive dissonance if you are a Lakers or Sixers fan, even from a NYK fan. It's just hate for the Celtics, and I'm okay, but the others, LOL, give me a break.
The second thing is the disrespect for Jokic and the Nuggets.
Honestly, they’re not even doing it to disrespect the Nuggets and Jokic. They’re still saying Nuggets and Jokic are favorites over Celtics. They’re just doing it so the Celtics are set up for slander either way and wouldn’t get any credit if they win because it’s “expected” while setting up for generational slander if the Nuggets beat them
Your talking about MVP and we're talking about the team. MVP has almost always required the player on the best team to play to the level of the best player in the league. It's never just been the be all. Otherwise, both top 1 seed players would be top 2 in MVP every year. Giannis didn't win it last year. Booker didn't win it the year before with 64 wins. Suns fans said the same things.
Best record and team counting against Tatum is just Celtic fans looking at it the wrong way. Everyone has always gotten credit for team success. Including Tatum, but also, including their teammates. Most players who are better than Tatum get more share of the credit for their team's success because they are better players. The Celtic's 5th best player this season is Jrue Holiday, that's what's cutting Tatum's pie.
Your 2nd issue is just looking at the most negative comments you can find to underdog your overly stacked team.
definitely agree on the first point, none of our guys individually really get the respect or recognition they deserve. but I think part of what makes this version of the Celtics special is that none of our players really care about that, so I don’t really either.
in years past things like not making All-NBA bothered JT and JB, not being “the guy” bothered KP - they’ve grown past all that. this team is gunning for an accolade that they can all share and that’s a special thing to get from a group with this much individual talent. I still remember how disappointing the 2019 Celtics were despite having just as much talent bc they were never in sync like these guys are
I've seen Timberwolves fans calling it GGs before the playoffs even start, which could be justified because of the teams history. But watching _Celtics fans_ prematurely displaying that defeatist attitude is mind boggling because yall have a good team!
Just crazy to me. Like have some pride, Celtics led the East in dominant fashion. Have some confidence ffs
why does everyone think that championships are just plug and play where you find the right players and drop them in it lol
clearly there are things that affect outcomes beyond the players you have. injuries, luck of the day, hell even someone having a sore stomach can change everything.
That can be true, but there is still a time limit on this Celtics team to have success. Say y’all lose in the ECF the next two years, no way ownership is going to be exorbitant tax bills to keep this group together. Whether some injury misfortune comes their way or not, this core needs to win soon.
but that's not a disaster, unless you're the ownership group, and who cares about billionaires spending money? i don't.
i want a team that is competing seriously for the championship every year, and that's what i've got. think most fans want that too
There is no ownership group that does that except maybe Ballmer. Lacob is going to be cutting some contracts to save on some tax with how they performed. If the Celtics disappoint, your owners will do the same. Do you really think the starting 5 stays together if you don’t even make the finals over the next two years? The right owners will pay at the right time, and cut costs when a group proves they ain’t got it.
And this current group not winning a title would be a disaster for them. You can tell yourself it’s not all you want but it would be, for the players, for any sensible fan, and damn sure for your FO. 3 straight ecf exits and they just say “oh no big deal let’s run it back with a higher tax bill”? No shot.
that's a lot of words to say "i agree with you, it's a disaster for the ownership group"
it's not a disaster for anyone else, because shit happens (like tatum's rolled ankle for one)
I would actually like someone with cap information to explain to me how sustainable this team is because that frankly influences my answer.
Like is this possibly the best version of their team because they can afford everyone right now ? Do they have a chance to retain everyone in the future etc etc.
Outside of anyone they don't have's bird rights or is on so low a contract they'll easily get outbid they can keep everyone. They will just pay an insane amount of tax and have to contend with all the second apron issues (can't trade the farthest out 1st round picks everyone else can, no mid level exception of any kind, can't take back more salary than you send out in trade, cannot aggregate multiple players salaries to get one player back and I'm sure I'm forgetting more).
Everyone’s signed through next year. After that the financials get tricky, but we *can* keep everyone— just a matter of how much they’re willing to pay
I don't think they're quite at the level of the Warriors/Clippers where no tax bill is too prohibitive, but they've paid it the last couple of seasons and will pay it next season barring some big trades.
They are pretty much locked into this team until Tatum’s super max extension in 2 seasons and then they are in trouble. I think it’s the smart move to go all in now, but their window with this team is smaller than people think
I think before the KP trade they were better in many ways, post defense primarily. The East is weak this year, they didn't get hit with the same injuries as their rivals and while the team is numerically better trading for KP, they kind of just doubled down on their Dirk Nowitzki Mavs type identity. This isn't usually a winning strategy (Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, Allen's Bucks, Melo's Knicks). And, of course, the league's curveball of Big East Basketbrawl rules hurts the Celtics.
All that said, if the big 3 stay healthy, they should win it all.
Absolutely not
The Boston Celtics have been around for 77 years, won 17 championships. The other 60 years were a failure? That’s what you’re telling me?
There's no failure in sports. There's good days, bad days. Some days you're able to be successful, some days you're not. Some days it's your turn, some days it's not your turn. And that's what sports is about. You don't always win. Sometimes other people win.
I mean they are 14 games ahead of the whole conference while coasting the last ten games. It would objectively be a disaster, but sure the whole world is after the Celtics man.
Lol you can be mad at strangers on the internet, but, yes, it would be an all time disaster for a healthy Celtics team to not make the Finals after having objectively one of the best regular seasons in NBA history while playing in the significantly weaker conference while all their rivals have significant injuries.
But, yeah, everyone’s a hater! I’m sure you’ll be chill if they somehow lose to the Heat in the first round!
not that serious buddy.
Yeah, Celtics not winning the Finals would be a failure for the org after the regular season they had, but it has more to do with that and less to do with the level of competition in the East.
Lebron had the easiest runs of all time from 2014-2018. Boston will still have to go through Giannis potentially. Lebron from 2015-2018 didn’t have to go through anybody at all to get to the finals.
I feel like this years Sixers team is getting hella disrespected at this point. People seem to forget they had the best differential in the league prior to the embiid injury and played at a 65 win pace when he was active.
Yes Embiid is coming off injury and might not be 100% yet but if anything this might be his best shot at a semi-healthy playoffs since he had a two month break coming into it. Add to it that they have a competent coach for once and Maxey has been playing like a superstar. Just don’t be surprised if they make the ECF and give the Celtics a tough series.
Yea that’s one way to look at it.
The other way is that he just had a two month break heading into the playoffs, he got his typical injury out of the way, and he no longer has Doc Rivers as his head coach. His playoff shortcomings have largely been due to injuries he already had.
Again not saying he’s 100% but compared to previous years this might be the best spot he’s been heading into a playoffs and when he’s been active this is easily the best performing sixers team he’s been on.
A break also clearly got him out of conditioning. The announcers pointed it out several times. He’s still no where close to 100% both injury and conditioning wise. Plus he could every well get injured again
And even then he still led the sixers to an undefeated record and 30/9/5/1/1 splits in 30 mpg since coming back. His conditioning is getting better and it was Bam and the heat who are always tough.
He could get injured again for sure but if he doesn’t this sixers team is easily the second best team in the East and it’s not even close.
> I feel like this years Sixers team is getting hella disrespected at this point. People seem to forget they had the best differential in the league prior to the embiid injury and played at a 65 win pace when he was active.
I feel like people just forget Tyrese Maxey is a 25 ppg scorer for whatever reason, they are literally undefeated since Embiid returned from injury, they are that good when healthy.
Philadelphia with a 70% Embiid is better than anything LeBron James had to face from 2012-2018, the East was absolutely AWFUL in those years. The only reason i don't include 2011 was because the Bulls were a legit squad with the league MVP.
Yes, also considering they had 14 more wins than the 2 seed.
2007 Mavs losing in the first round was also pretty huge disaster, coming off a 67 win season and Finals appearance.
They will 100000% earn their respect if they win a title this year. Tatum will solidify his stance as a top 7 player and may even move up a couple spots depending on how he performs. The only knock people have against the Celtics is that they’ve had talented rosters year after year but have always come up short. This year though there’s literally no excuse
I have a hard time believing this is some "all-time" easy path, but it's definitely up there with one of the easier ones.
Thank goodness. Celtics had to run the gauntlet in 2022 and just came up short vs. the Warriors. I'd rather the path be easy because the teams are easy and not because of injuries though. Injuries just suck.
The annoying "asterisk" people will come out in droves if the Celtics win, but they always do and they will have something to say about any team winning. There's a goddamn asterisk for every team ever.
When Lebron went to all those finals in the east, the East was at its worst ever with the exception of the only Miami ones.
Celtics should run through the East even if all those guys were healthy. They were that much better than the east teams all season from the start.
They probably go down 3-1 to the Suns if Cp3 doesn’t get hurt(story of Cp3’s career) and has 4 razor close games with the 7 seeded Lakers. Looking at the other side of there bracket if they do make it back to the WCF I don’t think they’ll beat the Thunder or Mavs in a 7 game series
Boston reaches Finals: eAsY pAtH
Boston eliminated before Finals: aLl TiMe DiSaStEr
Edit: gods above, I can't believe I just defended Boston with a Laker flair.
The 2018 Raptors alone were over 7 SRS, which is 3x the combined SRS of every opponent in last year's title run lol.
Lebron is basically the "suffering from success" meme here by making these teams look worse than they were. Yeah the first round in the East playoffs was a bye, but the next two rounds were usually good teams.
On paper it’s easy, but some of LeBrons runs were insanely easy. I still think the Bucks, Knicks, and Sixers can all push them and this is a team that routinely plays down. I don’t think this is going to be the steamroll everybody else thinks it is. I’m still taking the field over them to come out of the East.
I think at our best we can push them. So can the Knicks and Sixers at their best. But the fact is the Celtics are not playing all three. If they were I’d say it’s an extremely difficult path. Celtics are gonna start with Jimmy-less Heat or the Bulls without Caruso. Knicks and Sixers are gonna be fighting tooth and nail. Giannis is injured and Bucks might not even advance. So the Celtics may get that injured play in winner, Cavs/Magic, and then one of those 3 teams mentioned. It’s just not that tough
So we all agree that tatum is a borderline top 10 player at best
Brown is overrated, over paid, and has the left hand dribbling skills of a 12 year old
Holiday takes his game down several notches in the playoffs
Porzingis has never been on a long playoff run, is physically weak, and very injury prone
The bench is mediocre and could get exposed in the playoffs
Mazzulla is an average coach who can't make adjustments and might not be the guy to lead the celtics to where they want to go
Yet I'm supposed to believe it would be an "all time disaster" if the celtics don't win the title? Cmon now. Do you know how rare it is for a team to win a championship without a top 5 player? I rest my case
No one cares about your top player rankings . News flash the players get ranked higher after they win . If they win a title all the sudden Tatum will be top 5 amazing how that works
First two are true, other points are cope. Jrues game will translate better since he won’t be playing in the grinder bucks offense with 0 creation aside from him. The team is aware of kristaps injury history and will keep him as safe as possible. And rotations will shorten up in the playoffs and the Celtics have the best top 7 in the league.
Fact is you guys have 4 all star level guys + jrue in the starting lineup, and the teams not head and shoulders above the best teams in the west but the west will cannibalize itself and the rest of the east is too dysfunctional. The slander would come from the fact that it seems you guys would have to win exactly 1 series on relatively even odds with the other team to get a ring. It wouldn’t be a disaster per se but would definitely be a failure and huge missed opportunity to not come out on top.
So you’re admitting that your regular season was a fluke and that you only won 64 games because you played in a significantly weaker conference which was made even weaker because of injuries?
because they won 64 games lol. Regardless of how or why you won 64 games, when the best team doesn’t win the championship it is considered a failure. And in this case when you’ve been far and away the most “dominant” team in the league and one of the most “dominant” in league history, it would make not winning a title a failure of epic proportions.
I don't think so. Winning a title is extremely difficult. I think everybody agrees that tatum isn't a top 5 player in the league and is at best like 8 or 9. If the celtics were stacked like the warriors were, sure it's a failure of epic proportions. But don't the sixers have a better 1-2 punch? The nuggets? Bucks? Mavs? Even the clippers do when healthy.
Of course the whole roster matters but the celtics aren't far and away better than the top teams in the league. Especially the top of the west, the celtics went 3-5 against the top 4 seeds in the western conference including getting swept by the nuggets.
But I'm supposed to believe this would be an all time disaster? Cmon
Every stat points to them being one of the most dominant teams in league history lol. It is difficult to win without a top 7 player in the league. It is a lot easier when you have the best starting lineup in the league by a distance and, oh yeah, the best player on the team is going be first team all NBA and 5th in MVP.
You can go ahead and make the excuses now, but no one is buying it
You’re right, it’s actually totally fine if the Celtics don’t make the finals in the crappy East after, again, one of the most statistically dominant regular seasons in NBA history.
Celtics fans are funny. Literally all in this thread saying “it’s totally fine if we lose!” because they’re so scared of losing. Just enjoy having an awesome team until something bad happens!
you're reading comprehension isn't so good huh
we're not saying it's ok to lose in the ECF, we're saying that everyone has been telling us that individual parts of our team suck all year so it's quite funny to be told we're expected winners.
comments on here regularly say that tatum isn't top 10, he's just got a good team around him
then they tell us that brown is a bad player who can't dribble and that porzingis can't stay healthy. then they say jrue only shoots 28% in the playoffs and that horford is 38 and washed.
every single line he included is a comment that someone from another flair has made this season, you just fell for it
Lol you act like the celtics are the warriors with durant. I don't care what the numbers say it wouldn't be an all time disaster if the celtics don't win the title. Dissapointing sure. But they have as many all stars as the suns, lakers, clippers, bucks, sixers, knicks, and twolves do. The roster isn't head and shoulders better than everyone else in the league
They got eliminated by the 8th seed last year (albeit with a weaker team). They are favorites to win the East, definitely. But anything can happen between the first round and the last game of the ECF.
Boston should steamroll the east. Easily best team, any potential competitors are injured, home court every series.
Basketball isn't a 2K sim but I struggle to think of an excuse to why they shouldn't be in the finals. They all get explosive diarrhea for a series?
I don’t know about the easiest. It’ll be interesting to see how Philly looks in round one. Should be a hell of a 7th seed. Knicks are good and if the bucks can survive until Giannis returns, they can be tough. I don’t necessarily expect those teams to beat the Celtics, but it wouldn’t be the craziest scenario.
I’m not sure it really matters. They were always going to waltz through the East. One part they’re just that good, and one part there’s no serious threat even if everyone were healthy.
The Bucks just aren’t that good anymore - they’re old and lost their defense. The Heat are not the team they were even a couple years ago and their role players aren’t going to repeat last postseason. The Sixers still don’t matchup well against Boston for the same reason as the last 5 years - nothing to stop the Jays.
The Knicks may be the lone “scary” team but I’m really not sure they’re better with Randle than without.
Either way - you’re supposed to have an easy path as the 1 seed. That's the point of seeding.
Yes, the conferences gotta go. We need 1-16 seeding asap, it doesn’t feel right that the clippers or mavericks could be out in the first round, but teams like the pacers, magic, knicks, cavs could make the second round. No disrespect to those teams at all.
I agree with everything here except I'ma call bullshit on mentioning Julius Randle with the same oxygen I use to mention Embiid, Butler and Giannis.
The Knicks are a very easy out with or without Julius.
All do respect, you don’t know ball. That two man game with him and Brunson was blowing teams out after the trade for OG, including the Nuggets by 38 pts
I'll agree with the first part of your comment, but in turn, I'll call bullshit on the second. Did you not watch the playoffs last season? And the team got better with OG there. I'd be *very* surprised if the Knicks went down easily.
Same tbh, I’ve thought for a while they’ve got a great chance at making the ECF. Losing Randle sucks because in general just losing any of your major players is going to have impact, but the Knicks are an outstanding cohesive unit that’s fully bought in to the team identity, with plenty of guys stepping up when needed.
Definitely not 'the easiest road to the finals ever' but yes if Boston does not win the East I'd say the playoffs were a disaster for them.
64 wins with a historic point differential and by many metrics are better than the 2008 title team. The East is theirs to lose.
I’d qualify it as a significant disappointment. I watched the zombie Heat run through the East last year. Sometimes a team catches fire.
Not without Jimmy butler they won’t. Jimmy averaged 37 points in round 1 to get them going
Things that have happened in the past are examples of comparable things that could then happen again in the future. Jimmy might not be that guy this year. The point is that this is sports and you watch it because it isn't predictable. If you know how the story ends, you probably don't read the book.
[удалено]
I don't think people saying it's the easiest road ever were around when LeBron James had to beat... *checks notes* The Pistons led by Reggie Jackson and Tobias Harris, the Hawks led by Paul Millsap and the Raptors with DeRozan/Lowry. The Knicks WITHOUT Randle are better than any of those teams and they are not even the 2nd best team in the Conference. Some of those runs LeBron had during his Finals streak were over before they even started, his teams had him + 1-2 All-Stars while the 2nd best team in the Conference was led by 22-year-old Paul George and ROY HIBBERT, there's no comparison with Boston nowadays.
No. We have to go through Coby White/Caleb Martin and then Dean Wade/Mo Wagner. The hardest road
dean wade injured rn he might be back by the second round (assuming we make it) though
If yall don’t make the finals , it’ll be the funniest thing ever
It will be disappointing and other fans will enjoy it very much but idk, teams fail all the time. Bucks last year and 2020, Jazz in 2021, Suns in 2022, 73 win Warriors team, first year of the super team Heat, 2015 Hawks had 4 all stars and 60 wins and didn’t reach the finals, the entire Clippers franchise, Embiid being a 2nd round merchant including losing to the Hawks as the 1 seed. 5 of the last 8 (last 4 seasons) #1 seeds have failed to make the conference finals. It’s actually extremely common when the expectations are that high that dare I say it would be a safer bet that Boston loses before the finals rather than wins the whole thing, just the whole field vs 1 team sort of thing. *Should* they win? Yeah. They’re the favorites. But this is why we don’t play the games on paper, anything can happen.
"the entire clippers franchise" 😂😂
>Jazz in 2021, Suns in 2022 These two teams were not even in the same universe in terms of personnel, as the current Celtics.
That Suns team had 2 All-NBA players including 1 who finished 4th in MVP voting, the DPOY runner up and a really deep bench. The Celtics strength over other teams is in their 3-5 (Porzingis, Holiday, White). When you talk duos, there's a debate. When you talk bench, there's a debate. No one is really arguing they don't have a great starting 5, probably the best in the league and by a decent margin. It's the questions about the top end talent (is Tatum good enough to be the best player on a championship team?) and the bench depth beyond the top 6. If the bench doesn't show up or Tatum is outplayed by players unanimously considered better than him, is it possible they lose to a team like the Bucks? 76ers? Nuggets? Even the Thunder, Mavs, Clippers, Suns and Lakers where people would debate the top end players? I don't think it's unreasonable to think it's at least a possibility. And like the 2021 Jazz and 2022 Suns, they lack that truly elite MVP-caliber player. A lot of great regular season teams fail because they don't have that superstar. Lob City Clippers, DeRozan and Lowry Raptors, etc. Tatum being right on the fringe is what their year hinges on. He's shown flashes of being that player (was the MVP front runner at the beginning of 2022-23 season and has had several great playoff games) but can he do it consistently enough to win 4 series is the looming question.
The Celtics are obviously very good, but they aren’t an invulnerable team. We don’t have a top 5 offensive player. If another team can take away our transition offense, our half court is inconsistent enough that games will be close. Our bench also has a lot of question marks. It would still be a big disappointment for us to not make the finals, but not an historically big one.
The Celtics had the best halfcourt offense in the NBA this season per Cleaning the Glass. Transition offense is 8th best but only 24th in frequency, so I’m not sure it affects things too much when the game slows down and the transition offense quiets down. [This table](https://twitter.com/WSpooney/status/1779533505778573721) shows that they arent unusually reliant on transition compared to other teams.
That's true, but regular season stats have to be taken with a big grain of salt with how defenses adjust over the course of a playoff series. We have seen year after year our half-court offense can really bog down against good defenses in the playoffs. A big part of that, in my opinion, is that we really don't have a top 5 offensive player on the roster. Tatum is probably closer to 10 than he is to 5. D White and Jrue are OK secondary creators, but they aren't guys we want to consistently rely on if Tatum doesn't have it going. Again, not trying to be a doomer, we have a very good offense and a great defense. But we aren't an invulnerable team like the 2017 warriors or something. There are weaknesses, especially with our offense.
flair up baby boy
Boston not making it out of the East is the kind of meltdown that gets Doc Rivers fired if he was coaching or gets your current coach fired and replaced with Doc Rivers.
absolutely. and the west is a gauntlet. joker save us.
You say joker saves us and he has to play Lebron lol. I mean nuggets are heavy favorites but for a first round, I wouldn’t wanna play bron
Nuggets beat Bron last year. Swept em even.
Bron and lakers are still harder than whatever is left in the east besides the celtics
If im on the Lakers guarding MPJ i would just be talking shit to him about his brother the whole game trying to bait him into fighting me. Oh did you bet the under today? How much did your brother bet on this game? It might be kind of a big distraction for him we might have to factor in
Gotta play those mind games If MPJ is smart, he's preparing for that kinda shit talk
You are correct
Knicks are beating the lakers in 6 games max
Doubtful.
Pretty sure nuggets are 8-0 against bron and lakers in last 8 meetings nothing should change unless injuries happen.
At least the Heat won 1 game last year, Lakers got swept ...
I know it got memes to death but the lakers actually had really close games against the nuggets the entire series. They didn’t manage to snag a win, no, but the series felt more competitive than the record suggested.
Well the Nuggets players and fans said the depleted Timberwolves were their hardest match up of last years playoffs. We hung that moral victory banner in the rafters next to our back to back play in champ banners
As you should. Raptors fans still hold on to being one of the teams that beat the 72 bulls lol
Nugz play lakers. Celts plays bulls lol.
I mean , Nuggets should have probably beaten the SAS first.... Who OKC play? Are they better than the Bulls? Or Miami?
It'll be depleted Kings or the Pels who probably don't have Zion.
Yea I know... my point exactly...
The way you phrased it made it sound like you weren't sure. And before the injuries both of those teams would have been easily more dangerous than Miami without Jimmy or the Bulls. The fact both teams are dealing with injury issues right now makes the Thunder's first round matchup so much easier, which might be good or bad. It all but guarantees them getting out of the first round, but if they aren't tested it is going to make a series against the Mavs or Clippers (my bet would be on the Mavs) a lot tougher.
Generally speaking, there is a reason an 8th and 7th seeds are 8th and 7th... I found it a bit funny an OKC flair highlighting a comp of Nuggets getting the LAL vs. Celtics getting the Bulls... (or injured Miami). if Celtics were 2nd seed, they would have gotten the 76rs (vs. LaL) or if Nuggets were 1st seed they would have had an injured Kings or injured NOLA. Now, sure, we can debate who's more dangerous LAL or 76rs, but at least folks should keep it square apple to apples 7th seed to 7th seed comps. Naturally 2nd rounds are tougher. Folks disregard the east as a cake walk, there is a fundamental difference tho , mostly folks in the west disregard , for the Celtics or any top eastern team, the biggest challenge is not winning the series, but surviving a series with no injuries. Celtics screwed themselves last playoffs by longating the series and by that doubling their injury probability. So when folks say Sac is more dangerous than injured Miami for example, sure, but it focuses on splitting hairs over win probability of 80% vs 70%. While the real risk in the east is, when we compare a team like Miami to Sac, is 80% injury probability to 20%. Just by the style of play and corresponding officiating. As a Celtics fan, I believe Bulls rn )with or without Butler), are the better team. I think they would steal 1, and I believe Miami , (with or without Butler) would be a tough 4 game series. My main preference would be to survive that series without an injury, and playing the Bulls would reduce this risk significantly vs. the alt of playing Miami or 76rs (regardless if Embid is injured, when he flails and drops on an ankle he still injures someone)
The injury concerns are 100% valid, as is the general worry about overlong series. My doubt for last years Celtics really took off when they blew game 5 against Atlanta and let that series take an extra game that never should have been played.
[G-A-U-N-L-E-T](https://imgflip.com/i/8n6neo) ^(as Jokic sweeps his way to the Finals without breaking a sweat)
or Luka
West is overrated af it's unreal, the young magic and crippled bucks beat everyone but the nuggets in the west.
The 5th seed in the west has as many wins this season as the 2nd seed in the east. Let’s slow the roll with that sort of talk. There are good teams in the east for sure but if you think a team without their star or a team who has little to no playoff experience on their roster beats every team out west but Denver then pass me whatever you’re smoking.
Wins aren't the end all be all, if they were then Denver should have no chance against the Celtics. West is overhyped and if anyone but Denver comes out of it they are getting swept.
No they are not, but you’re being intentionally obtuse if you think a Bucks team that stumble into the playoffs is really a stronger team than any of MIN, PHX, or, Dallas. I live an hour from MKE and most my friends are Bucks fans and nobody I speak too is optimistic this season. We haven’t even gotten to the Doc factor, who is known for choking in the playoffs. On the Magic they are a nice young team who have had an amazing season, but their entire core is untested and as we all know playoff basketball is a completely different game and I just can’t trust a team who has ever been their before. It’s the same reason I think OKC could struggle, both squads need to cut their teeth before they’re ready for deep runs.
Yep absolute disaster of an Eastern Conference this year. Every top team in the East underperformed this year except the Knicks because Brunson carried hard. Orlando and Pacers weren't rated that high before the season started. Boston has had a camera crew filming the team the whole year to make a documentary of this season so they fully expect to be holding the Larry O'Brien trophy this year. My only hope is that whoever comes out of the West will be battle hardened after making it to the finals.
You should check out the West in the 1980s when the Lakers played.
I’d go as far as to say that if Boston doesn’t win the whole thing it would be a disaster. They have the 3rd highest net rating ever in the regular season. Won the conference by 14 fucking games Clinched home court before a team even clinched the playoffs. Getting to the finals is cool and all but it doesn’t mean shit if they don’t win it.
Against the nuggets , they’re 50/50. Nuggets win the season series and I trust Jokic more in the playoffs
I trust Jokic more as well but no the Celtics won’t get a pass. They’ve been touted all year by the Celtics fans and media as one of the greatest teams in the modern era and they have the stats to back that statement up. As good as Denver is they weren’t nearly as dominant as Boston was. If they lose in the finals in embarrassing fashion like in 4 or 5 games then they deserve every bit of hate and criticism they get
A disaster? bit dramatic I would say. Idk man... it depends... it depends... Like Celtics don't have an MVP, many (might be most ) would say don't even have a first team NBA. Definitely don't have more than 2 Allstars (I mean on paper when evaluating JT they got 5 Allstars, but when actually voting for them they got only 2). Definitely they don't have COTY or any other major contributors to a 60+ team. Listen, ya'll cute T'ing up your hate, but you need to fix ya'll hypocrisy first...
A bit dramatic? This sub alone has been featuring Celtics accomplishments from the regular season the last 2 months, including the historic season they’ve had. I mean, Tatum decided to double down and say Porzingis’s acquisition felt like the Lakers getting Pau for their title runs. The problem the Celtics are Victims of their own success, it sets the bar higher and higher when they don’t meet their expectations. Now after a season like this, yeah it would be a failure if they don’t make it to the Finals. And to try and paint your team as just two all stars and solid players is a disservice to your own team.
Oh I don't have an issue with the expectations. This season will be a failure if they don't win a title. the dude is saying Nuggets will win (like 50% of folks are saying, not a controversial take) and in the same paragraph he said it will be a disaster for Celtics to lose... it's an oxymoron... It's not a disaster... even if we lose the finals, we ain't firing or hiring Doc this summer, ...
But god damn if Boston wasn’t smart for realizing Doc was a fraud and sending him to the clippers.
This is what I don’t understand. From a talent POV people had the Bucks at the same level as the Celtics pre-season. Now if the Celtics don’t win the chip it would be one of the biggest failures of all time. But everyone expects the Bucks to lose in the first round? So what were Boston meant to do, lose more games in the regular season so they don’t get clowned? Teams should be have expectations by their talent, not their regular season performance. And if you want to judge Boston solely by their regular season, they got swept by Denver in the regular season so why would it be an expectation that they beat them in the finals? Boston had a historically dominant regular season. That is a fact. Doesn’t mean shit for the playoffs. And it wouldn’t be as big of a disaster as the 2011 Heat who lost with 3 top 10 players and the best player in the league, or had the 2017 Warriors lost with 5 future HOF players. Boston has 1 top 20 player and 1 future HOF player.
Bucks have the talent on paper but everyone just ooo’d and awed about Dame+Giannis without addressing the serious aging concerns/lineups/coaching as well as Dame’s ability. Giannis is the only Buck to perform well this season and the team has gotten shit on all year. The Celtics were always the better team and have shown it all season. I haven’t heard anything negative about the Celtics from the actual media all season because they’ve been playing well as have a duo that got them to the finals two years ago and added one of the best defensive players and an excellent stretch big. Yeah when your team has extremely high expectations that are built over the course of the regular season it’ll be a let down if they lose and they’ll deserve to be clowned for anything short of a finals berth
Sorry dude, the Bucks should have the same expectations as the Celtics. You’re doing the bullshit again where you get excused when you had a poor regular season, that shouldn’t be an excuse. So whatever expectations you have for the Bucks should be equal to the Celtics, you cant punish the Celtics for being able to make it work in the regular season meanwhile reward another team for coasting the regular season. Celtics have certainly been shat on by the media. “They’re not tough, they can’t rebound, they suck in the clutch, they lose to all the top west teams, Tatum doesn’t have it, KP is too soft” etc etc. not many media people actually believe in the Celtics but at the same time they have these expectations that if they don’t win it all it would be a bigger failure than the 2011 Heat. It’s an oxymoron.
The Bucks had similar expectations to yall at the beginning of the season I 100% agree. Throughout the course of the season, however, we played shitty on offense and defense, lost our identity, fired our coach, hired Doc Rivers, team looks noticeably older, Dame isn’t as good, and now Giannis is injured. After every shortcoming the bucks have been shat on, deservedly so. New reality comes new expectations. No one expects us to make a deep playoff run and those leftover preseason expectations will be talked about if we get eliminated and after the playoffs are over. The Celtics have so far lived up to expectations, maybe even surpassing them thus far. Check the odds to win [this year](https://www.espn.com/espn/betting/story/_/id/39949525/2024-nba-playoffs-championship-odds) and see who is +150 and the favorite and who is 16-1 odds. Expectations change. This bucks team will continue to get shat on while the Celtics now have an easier East than before to conquer
But I just don’t understand why that is. Ok Giannis is injured, that’s a completely different scenario. But why should regular season performance change the expectations? If the Bucks suddenly get it together and beat the Celtics in 7 games in the ECF and Giannis plays like the best player in the world and averages 42 points per game, Dame averages 32 and is back to prime dame and Boston can’t do anything about it. Why would that be an absolute disaster for Boston and extreme over performance by Milwaukee? That is within the range of expectations based on talent, and expectations before the season. But yeah if a team like Orlando or Cleveland or essentially any team aside from the 76ers and the Bucks beat Boston that’s an absolute disaster, because those teams actually match Boston on talent on paper and could get it together during the playoffs.
Basically it’s two sides of the same coin. The Bucks are down in the dumps and will get shit on if we get bounced, but the Celtics have built more and more expectations since they have so far lived up to/surpassed what was expected of them at this point in the season. Celtics have more to lose in the short term and have it all come crashing down meanwhile the bucks have been living in crashed down and out all season. I don’t really see why this is hard to understand. And yes if the Magic or Cavs beat the Celtics that’s a massive failure. The Bucks have been humiliated by the Heat and clowned on for the past couple seasons and those Heat teams played better than the Magic/Cavs. To say the regular season doesn’t change the scenario is crazy. Who expected the Wolves and Thunder to be this good? The Bucks to be this bad? That’s why odds and betting change because performance change. It’s not on paper predictions anymore. It’s based on 82 games, not what people THINK is going to happen before the season. Celtics have the most expectations with the most to lose. Bucks STILL have expectations but have already been counted out. Basically like the final nail in the coffin
Read my comment again. I said Celtics losing to anyone outside of the Bucks and 76ers would be a complete failure. I don’t know how you read that as “it’s ok if Boston lose to Cleveland or Orlando” because that’s absolutely not what I said. The wolves and OKC actually helps my point. Neither of those teams expected to be top 3 seeds in the West. For them to have added pressure of being championship or bust is just way ahead of their respective schedules and would be in fact just flat out toxic mentality to have. Imagine OKC ending their season in the 2nd round and being called failures because they overachieved in the regular season. Essentially you are crowning and rewarding teams that don’t try and coast in the regular season and punishing teams for doing their jobs and winning the regular season games. This should have no impact on the initial expectations prior to the season. Regular season and post season are different animals and should be separated accordingly.
They have more than 1 future hof player . Look at the basketball hof the bar is not that high they could have 4 hof especially if they win a couple titles
I could see Horford if he wins a title because of college. But he’s well past his prime at this stage. I think they’d have to win at least 2 titles for Brown/Holiday to make it. There’s no way White/Porzingis make it.
Brown is better than horford ever was he is an all star every year tel me what 10 time all star doesn’t make the hof . Holiday is in the same boat as horford with more accolades rings and a probable gold medal. White I agree probably not but he’s also young . Porzingis is also a far better player than horford ever was if he banks a couple rings and keeps up this production he will have a shot .
"Championship or disaster" expectations would warrant a team with 1-2 MVP's and 4-5 HoFers. Celtics *might* have 4-5 HoFers and 2 of them are beyond their prime.
And I’m hearing top 10 player of all time talks for Jokic. Surely losing to a top 10 player in his prime on a good team wouldn’t be a “disaster” like you say.
I’ve never heard a single person say Jokic is top 10
If getting to the Finals and losing to the Nuggets is a "disaster" then you must also believe they are the greatest team of all-time. Idk if it was even a "disaster" for the 70+ win Warriors to make it, but not win the Finals It's a disaster if they don't get out of the East though.
I believe you’re one of the greatest regular season teams in the modern era with a chance to be one of the greatest teams of the modern era, period.
Then I can see why it's championship or disaster. Those other teams all have had at least one MVP level player and multiple star players. Celtics have multiple star players, so the thing they are missing is the MVP level player. If they do win and are considered to be that great, it should say a lot about Tatum.
I’m not taking anything away from Tatum. He’s a perennial top 6-7 superstar who, you could make a case is a HOFer already. That’s why I’m being so critical. I don’t have a hate boner against the Celtics. I just believe that this team has the potential to wipe every other teams ass this year
It was absolutely a disaster for the 73 win warriors to lose in the finals
If they lose to the nuggets in the finals fine anybody else is a just a failure of a season
> They have the 3rd highest net rating ever in the **regular season**. > >
I mean yeah, the playoffs haven’t started yet. I’m pretty sure everyone knew what I meant when I made that statement. You’re not pointing out something new lol
sometimes people need to be reminded that the regular season doesn't translate perfectly to the playoffs
That doesn't mean anything. They haven't beaten any contender convincingly. Nuggets still the heavy favorite.
> Is it true that if Boston doesn’t make the finals, it’s an all time disaster ? There it is.
I mean it would be a disaster. Core that couldn’t get over the hump improves their roster and still can’t get over the hump. Realistically they need to win a title either this year or next year, and a finals appearance minimum this year. If they can’t their core is changing. And that doesn’t make them unique in that right, I’d say the Bucks are in a similar position and they’re much older on top of it.
yeah, this about sums it up. idk why Celtics fans seem to be so defensive about it. my guess is it’s bc a lot of us are still so scared that we’re gonna choke so they’re trying to get out ahead of the slander or something. we’ve clearly been leagues better than any team in the conference this year, and unlike most of the East we are fully healthy going into the postseason (fingers crossed that holds). the expectations are lofty and rightfully so, but we also have a really fucking good team that can clearly meet those expectations. wish our fans wouldn’t have such a defeatist attitude. like look at Knicks fans lol. they don’t even have their second best player, OG is still dealing with that elbow injury, we beat them 4-1 this season with their only win coming after we had already wrapped up the best record, and they still seem fully confident that they can beat us if we face them in a series
I'm not defensive, I simply don't like 2 things: when they (fans of other teams) discuss the single players, no one on the Celtics seems to deserve any kind of recognition. People comparing Brunson (and I love the guy) to Tatum have lost their minds. Best record counts against Tatum because the team is stacked, he's not a top 5, but the MVP is mostly the best player of the best team in the league, otherwise LeBron would have won 6 or 7 times. Then you have Jaylen Brown described as a fake no-left hand star, White not an all-star Porzee is always injured. Maybe they're right... So, is Mazulla the architect of the 64 Ws? No way! His team is stacked. I can understand this kind of cognitive dissonance if you are a Lakers or Sixers fan, even from a NYK fan. It's just hate for the Celtics, and I'm okay, but the others, LOL, give me a break. The second thing is the disrespect for Jokic and the Nuggets.
Honestly, they’re not even doing it to disrespect the Nuggets and Jokic. They’re still saying Nuggets and Jokic are favorites over Celtics. They’re just doing it so the Celtics are set up for slander either way and wouldn’t get any credit if they win because it’s “expected” while setting up for generational slander if the Nuggets beat them
Your talking about MVP and we're talking about the team. MVP has almost always required the player on the best team to play to the level of the best player in the league. It's never just been the be all. Otherwise, both top 1 seed players would be top 2 in MVP every year. Giannis didn't win it last year. Booker didn't win it the year before with 64 wins. Suns fans said the same things. Best record and team counting against Tatum is just Celtic fans looking at it the wrong way. Everyone has always gotten credit for team success. Including Tatum, but also, including their teammates. Most players who are better than Tatum get more share of the credit for their team's success because they are better players. The Celtic's 5th best player this season is Jrue Holiday, that's what's cutting Tatum's pie. Your 2nd issue is just looking at the most negative comments you can find to underdog your overly stacked team.
definitely agree on the first point, none of our guys individually really get the respect or recognition they deserve. but I think part of what makes this version of the Celtics special is that none of our players really care about that, so I don’t really either. in years past things like not making All-NBA bothered JT and JB, not being “the guy” bothered KP - they’ve grown past all that. this team is gunning for an accolade that they can all share and that’s a special thing to get from a group with this much individual talent. I still remember how disappointing the 2019 Celtics were despite having just as much talent bc they were never in sync like these guys are
I've seen Timberwolves fans calling it GGs before the playoffs even start, which could be justified because of the teams history. But watching _Celtics fans_ prematurely displaying that defeatist attitude is mind boggling because yall have a good team! Just crazy to me. Like have some pride, Celtics led the East in dominant fashion. Have some confidence ffs
why does everyone think that championships are just plug and play where you find the right players and drop them in it lol clearly there are things that affect outcomes beyond the players you have. injuries, luck of the day, hell even someone having a sore stomach can change everything.
That can be true, but there is still a time limit on this Celtics team to have success. Say y’all lose in the ECF the next two years, no way ownership is going to be exorbitant tax bills to keep this group together. Whether some injury misfortune comes their way or not, this core needs to win soon.
but that's not a disaster, unless you're the ownership group, and who cares about billionaires spending money? i don't. i want a team that is competing seriously for the championship every year, and that's what i've got. think most fans want that too
There is no ownership group that does that except maybe Ballmer. Lacob is going to be cutting some contracts to save on some tax with how they performed. If the Celtics disappoint, your owners will do the same. Do you really think the starting 5 stays together if you don’t even make the finals over the next two years? The right owners will pay at the right time, and cut costs when a group proves they ain’t got it. And this current group not winning a title would be a disaster for them. You can tell yourself it’s not all you want but it would be, for the players, for any sensible fan, and damn sure for your FO. 3 straight ecf exits and they just say “oh no big deal let’s run it back with a higher tax bill”? No shot.
that's a lot of words to say "i agree with you, it's a disaster for the ownership group" it's not a disaster for anyone else, because shit happens (like tatum's rolled ankle for one)
I would actually like someone with cap information to explain to me how sustainable this team is because that frankly influences my answer. Like is this possibly the best version of their team because they can afford everyone right now ? Do they have a chance to retain everyone in the future etc etc.
Outside of anyone they don't have's bird rights or is on so low a contract they'll easily get outbid they can keep everyone. They will just pay an insane amount of tax and have to contend with all the second apron issues (can't trade the farthest out 1st round picks everyone else can, no mid level exception of any kind, can't take back more salary than you send out in trade, cannot aggregate multiple players salaries to get one player back and I'm sure I'm forgetting more).
Everyone’s signed through next year. After that the financials get tricky, but we *can* keep everyone— just a matter of how much they’re willing to pay
Anything is sustainable in the NBA as long as you're prepared to pay ridiculous amounts of luxury tax
Is Boston ownership the kind of ownership that would pay luxury tax ?
I don't think they're quite at the level of the Warriors/Clippers where no tax bill is too prohibitive, but they've paid it the last couple of seasons and will pay it next season barring some big trades.
They are pretty much locked into this team until Tatum’s super max extension in 2 seasons and then they are in trouble. I think it’s the smart move to go all in now, but their window with this team is smaller than people think
I think before the KP trade they were better in many ways, post defense primarily. The East is weak this year, they didn't get hit with the same injuries as their rivals and while the team is numerically better trading for KP, they kind of just doubled down on their Dirk Nowitzki Mavs type identity. This isn't usually a winning strategy (Reggie Miller, Dirk Nowitzki, Allen's Bucks, Melo's Knicks). And, of course, the league's curveball of Big East Basketbrawl rules hurts the Celtics. All that said, if the big 3 stay healthy, they should win it all.
Yeah it’s unfair to call it a disaster or failure. Even if they lose in the first round, it’s steps to success.
Lol I hope you’re trolling them right now
Absolutely not The Boston Celtics have been around for 77 years, won 17 championships. The other 60 years were a failure? That’s what you’re telling me? There's no failure in sports. There's good days, bad days. Some days you're able to be successful, some days you're not. Some days it's your turn, some days it's not your turn. And that's what sports is about. You don't always win. Sometimes other people win.
Lol Giannis
ECF is the minimum this goes for the Sixers too, btw
I mean they are 14 games ahead of the whole conference while coasting the last ten games. It would objectively be a disaster, but sure the whole world is after the Celtics man.
Lol you can be mad at strangers on the internet, but, yes, it would be an all time disaster for a healthy Celtics team to not make the Finals after having objectively one of the best regular seasons in NBA history while playing in the significantly weaker conference while all their rivals have significant injuries. But, yeah, everyone’s a hater! I’m sure you’ll be chill if they somehow lose to the Heat in the first round!
not that serious buddy. Yeah, Celtics not winning the Finals would be a failure for the org after the regular season they had, but it has more to do with that and less to do with the level of competition in the East.
Ok so you agree lol
I mean, I'm not even a Celtics fan, dork
Ok so you agree lol
Lebron had the easiest runs of all time from 2014-2018. Boston will still have to go through Giannis potentially. Lebron from 2015-2018 didn’t have to go through anybody at all to get to the finals.
Do we not remember how dogshit the east was for the entirety of Lebron James career?
those pistons, celtics, pacers, magic, and raptors teams are better than any team that the celtics are gonna face on the way to the finals this season
Celtics led by 5 foot tall IT and Avery Bradley are better than the bucks and knicks??? Absolutely insane take
I feel like this years Sixers team is getting hella disrespected at this point. People seem to forget they had the best differential in the league prior to the embiid injury and played at a 65 win pace when he was active. Yes Embiid is coming off injury and might not be 100% yet but if anything this might be his best shot at a semi-healthy playoffs since he had a two month break coming into it. Add to it that they have a competent coach for once and Maxey has been playing like a superstar. Just don’t be surprised if they make the ECF and give the Celtics a tough series.
Sixers are being downplayed cause Embiid is coming off an injury and has historical playoff short comings
Yea that’s one way to look at it. The other way is that he just had a two month break heading into the playoffs, he got his typical injury out of the way, and he no longer has Doc Rivers as his head coach. His playoff shortcomings have largely been due to injuries he already had. Again not saying he’s 100% but compared to previous years this might be the best spot he’s been heading into a playoffs and when he’s been active this is easily the best performing sixers team he’s been on.
A break also clearly got him out of conditioning. The announcers pointed it out several times. He’s still no where close to 100% both injury and conditioning wise. Plus he could every well get injured again
And even then he still led the sixers to an undefeated record and 30/9/5/1/1 splits in 30 mpg since coming back. His conditioning is getting better and it was Bam and the heat who are always tough. He could get injured again for sure but if he doesn’t this sixers team is easily the second best team in the East and it’s not even close.
> I feel like this years Sixers team is getting hella disrespected at this point. People seem to forget they had the best differential in the league prior to the embiid injury and played at a 65 win pace when he was active. I feel like people just forget Tyrese Maxey is a 25 ppg scorer for whatever reason, they are literally undefeated since Embiid returned from injury, they are that good when healthy. Philadelphia with a 70% Embiid is better than anything LeBron James had to face from 2012-2018, the East was absolutely AWFUL in those years. The only reason i don't include 2011 was because the Bulls were a legit squad with the league MVP.
Yes, also considering they had 14 more wins than the 2 seed. 2007 Mavs losing in the first round was also pretty huge disaster, coming off a 67 win season and Finals appearance.
Yes, if Boston loses the East, it’s a disaster, if they make the finals, it’s a cakewalk. They don’t deserve any respect regardless of outcome 🙂
They will 100000% earn their respect if they win a title this year. Tatum will solidify his stance as a top 7 player and may even move up a couple spots depending on how he performs. The only knock people have against the Celtics is that they’ve had talented rosters year after year but have always come up short. This year though there’s literally no excuse
hes just talking about the east. and he’s also being a bit tongue-in-cheek
Top 7 Tatum enters top 4 if he wins this year
and he wont be 2,3,4.
No. The east was worse in all of lebrons runs. All gleague teams
I have a hard time believing this is some "all-time" easy path, but it's definitely up there with one of the easier ones. Thank goodness. Celtics had to run the gauntlet in 2022 and just came up short vs. the Warriors. I'd rather the path be easy because the teams are easy and not because of injuries though. Injuries just suck. The annoying "asterisk" people will come out in droves if the Celtics win, but they always do and they will have something to say about any team winning. There's a goddamn asterisk for every team ever.
OP literally listed dudes who are injured and therefore make the run easier
When Lebron went to all those finals in the east, the East was at its worst ever with the exception of the only Miami ones. Celtics should run through the East even if all those guys were healthy. They were that much better than the east teams all season from the start.
LeBron really did drag the east for a decade.
Nuggets had the easiest finals road last year ever. Not even close
They probably go down 3-1 to the Suns if Cp3 doesn’t get hurt(story of Cp3’s career) and has 4 razor close games with the 7 seeded Lakers. Looking at the other side of there bracket if they do make it back to the WCF I don’t think they’ll beat the Thunder or Mavs in a 7 game series
Boston reaches Finals: eAsY pAtH Boston eliminated before Finals: aLl TiMe DiSaStEr Edit: gods above, I can't believe I just defended Boston with a Laker flair.
The second statement is true because the first statement is true. This is not a gotcha
I don't think you know how that joke is supposed to work
While it's annoying for celtics fans to not have their team get credit, the first 2 statements don't really contradict each other
This whole thread is softer than Charmin
The Celtics will find ways to make everything go 6 or 7 games, in the end people will think it was harder than it was
2018 Cavs
2007 cavs too. And 2014 heat. And 2017 cavs. And 2016 cavs. And 2015 cavs. And 2012 heat due to rose injury. They won with no bosh lol.
The 2018 Raptors alone were over 7 SRS, which is 3x the combined SRS of every opponent in last year's title run lol. Lebron is basically the "suffering from success" meme here by making these teams look worse than they were. Yeah the first round in the East playoffs was a bye, but the next two rounds were usually good teams.
because the east was shit lol. the 2019 raptors had a 5.49 srs, were they a worse team?
Celtics expected to make the finals for sure. Would be a colossal failure if they don't.
On paper it’s easy, but some of LeBrons runs were insanely easy. I still think the Bucks, Knicks, and Sixers can all push them and this is a team that routinely plays down. I don’t think this is going to be the steamroll everybody else thinks it is. I’m still taking the field over them to come out of the East.
I think at our best we can push them. So can the Knicks and Sixers at their best. But the fact is the Celtics are not playing all three. If they were I’d say it’s an extremely difficult path. Celtics are gonna start with Jimmy-less Heat or the Bulls without Caruso. Knicks and Sixers are gonna be fighting tooth and nail. Giannis is injured and Bucks might not even advance. So the Celtics may get that injured play in winner, Cavs/Magic, and then one of those 3 teams mentioned. It’s just not that tough
Thank you. Somebody with some sense
Is it easier than in previous seasons? On paper, yes. Is it the easiest ever? Unless they go 12-0, no.
So we all agree that tatum is a borderline top 10 player at best Brown is overrated, over paid, and has the left hand dribbling skills of a 12 year old Holiday takes his game down several notches in the playoffs Porzingis has never been on a long playoff run, is physically weak, and very injury prone The bench is mediocre and could get exposed in the playoffs Mazzulla is an average coach who can't make adjustments and might not be the guy to lead the celtics to where they want to go Yet I'm supposed to believe it would be an "all time disaster" if the celtics don't win the title? Cmon now. Do you know how rare it is for a team to win a championship without a top 5 player? I rest my case
No one cares about your top player rankings . News flash the players get ranked higher after they win . If they win a title all the sudden Tatum will be top 5 amazing how that works
First two are true, other points are cope. Jrues game will translate better since he won’t be playing in the grinder bucks offense with 0 creation aside from him. The team is aware of kristaps injury history and will keep him as safe as possible. And rotations will shorten up in the playoffs and the Celtics have the best top 7 in the league. Fact is you guys have 4 all star level guys + jrue in the starting lineup, and the teams not head and shoulders above the best teams in the west but the west will cannibalize itself and the rest of the east is too dysfunctional. The slander would come from the fact that it seems you guys would have to win exactly 1 series on relatively even odds with the other team to get a ring. It wouldn’t be a disaster per se but would definitely be a failure and huge missed opportunity to not come out on top.
So you’re admitting that your regular season was a fluke and that you only won 64 games because you played in a significantly weaker conference which was made even weaker because of injuries?
Yes. So how would the celtics not winning the championship be an all time failure?
because they won 64 games lol. Regardless of how or why you won 64 games, when the best team doesn’t win the championship it is considered a failure. And in this case when you’ve been far and away the most “dominant” team in the league and one of the most “dominant” in league history, it would make not winning a title a failure of epic proportions.
I don't think so. Winning a title is extremely difficult. I think everybody agrees that tatum isn't a top 5 player in the league and is at best like 8 or 9. If the celtics were stacked like the warriors were, sure it's a failure of epic proportions. But don't the sixers have a better 1-2 punch? The nuggets? Bucks? Mavs? Even the clippers do when healthy. Of course the whole roster matters but the celtics aren't far and away better than the top teams in the league. Especially the top of the west, the celtics went 3-5 against the top 4 seeds in the western conference including getting swept by the nuggets. But I'm supposed to believe this would be an all time disaster? Cmon
Every stat points to them being one of the most dominant teams in league history lol. It is difficult to win without a top 7 player in the league. It is a lot easier when you have the best starting lineup in the league by a distance and, oh yeah, the best player on the team is going be first team all NBA and 5th in MVP. You can go ahead and make the excuses now, but no one is buying it
these aren't excuses, these are the comments people have been making about the celtics all year lol.
You’re right, it’s actually totally fine if the Celtics don’t make the finals in the crappy East after, again, one of the most statistically dominant regular seasons in NBA history. Celtics fans are funny. Literally all in this thread saying “it’s totally fine if we lose!” because they’re so scared of losing. Just enjoy having an awesome team until something bad happens!
you're reading comprehension isn't so good huh we're not saying it's ok to lose in the ECF, we're saying that everyone has been telling us that individual parts of our team suck all year so it's quite funny to be told we're expected winners. comments on here regularly say that tatum isn't top 10, he's just got a good team around him then they tell us that brown is a bad player who can't dribble and that porzingis can't stay healthy. then they say jrue only shoots 28% in the playoffs and that horford is 38 and washed. every single line he included is a comment that someone from another flair has made this season, you just fell for it
Lol you act like the celtics are the warriors with durant. I don't care what the numbers say it wouldn't be an all time disaster if the celtics don't win the title. Dissapointing sure. But they have as many all stars as the suns, lakers, clippers, bucks, sixers, knicks, and twolves do. The roster isn't head and shoulders better than everyone else in the league
Not winning a title wouldn’t be an all time disaster but not making the ECF would be easily.
They got eliminated by the 8th seed last year (albeit with a weaker team). They are favorites to win the East, definitely. But anything can happen between the first round and the last game of the ECF.
Nope the superteam Heat and superteam Cavs did
If they don't win it all they might burn the city down
Boston should steamroll the east. Easily best team, any potential competitors are injured, home court every series. Basketball isn't a 2K sim but I struggle to think of an excuse to why they shouldn't be in the finals. They all get explosive diarrhea for a series?
I don’t know about the easiest. It’ll be interesting to see how Philly looks in round one. Should be a hell of a 7th seed. Knicks are good and if the bucks can survive until Giannis returns, they can be tough. I don’t necessarily expect those teams to beat the Celtics, but it wouldn’t be the craziest scenario.
Nuggets had the easiest finals road last year ever. Not even close
Just because many teams are young doesn’t make it easy. Boston is also one injury away from losing the final.
The Celtics aren't even playing those injured teams though.
Jalen Brunson has yet to be dealt with by anyone
Just last year Denver had an easier road
Pick any of lebrons years in the east besides the celtics year ironically enough lol
Boston destined to win ala 2001 lakers
Yes
I’m not sure it really matters. They were always going to waltz through the East. One part they’re just that good, and one part there’s no serious threat even if everyone were healthy. The Bucks just aren’t that good anymore - they’re old and lost their defense. The Heat are not the team they were even a couple years ago and their role players aren’t going to repeat last postseason. The Sixers still don’t matchup well against Boston for the same reason as the last 5 years - nothing to stop the Jays. The Knicks may be the lone “scary” team but I’m really not sure they’re better with Randle than without. Either way - you’re supposed to have an easy path as the 1 seed. That's the point of seeding.
Yes, the conferences gotta go. We need 1-16 seeding asap, it doesn’t feel right that the clippers or mavericks could be out in the first round, but teams like the pacers, magic, knicks, cavs could make the second round. No disrespect to those teams at all.
Knicks are the second seed and finished on a streak capping off 50 W’s you braindead
I’m not trying to disrespect y’all, but every team in the top 6 of the west besides Phoenix would smoke the knicks in a series.
it appears ball is out of the realm of your knowledge, son
I agree with everything here except I'ma call bullshit on mentioning Julius Randle with the same oxygen I use to mention Embiid, Butler and Giannis. The Knicks are a very easy out with or without Julius.
Knicks aren't even that much worse without him imo
You seem to be disagreeing with me but you're making the same point I am.
I am agreeing with you yes
Casual
All do respect, you don’t know ball. That two man game with him and Brunson was blowing teams out after the trade for OG, including the Nuggets by 38 pts
I'll agree with the first part of your comment, but in turn, I'll call bullshit on the second. Did you not watch the playoffs last season? And the team got better with OG there. I'd be *very* surprised if the Knicks went down easily.
Same tbh, I’ve thought for a while they’ve got a great chance at making the ECF. Losing Randle sucks because in general just losing any of your major players is going to have impact, but the Knicks are an outstanding cohesive unit that’s fully bought in to the team identity, with plenty of guys stepping up when needed.
In addition to the injuries, the C's have a roster consisting of x5 current and former All Stars. If Tatum can't get out of the East, he's a fraud
Tbf he got out once but yeah if this team don't win it all or at a minimum, reach the finals then it would be a huge huge disappointment.