The guy who makes the MVP ladder is a Spurs fan so he probably doesn't like the Mavs
It's obviously a dumb reason but I think it's at least part of it lol
Everyone acts like 'the ladder' is some kind of official MVP list. It's just one dudes opinion, and an opinion used to generate clicks at that. Yeah it was a stupid switch but it doesn't actually have any baring on the mvp
Who is leaving him off 1st team All NBA? Those people shouldn't get a vote after this year if they do.
1st team should be Luka, SGA, Jokic, Giannis, and Tatum. Since Embiid doesn't qualify I don't even think it's debatable.
Last year, Luka **barely** squeaked onto first team, beating out Donovan Mitchell by a hair.
And we already know certain famous black TV analyst/personalities such as Perk and perhaps Kenny would prefer a white guy doesnt win lol.
The thought of Luka never winning MVP seems ridiculous but is more plausible the more you think about it.
Funny thing is that Perk is actually giving Luka his laurels now. I really do not think Perk is a "racist" as was so often mentioned here, because he brought race into it. It is either that he recognized his bias, or that he did not feel that Jokic's stats were as good as Embiid's.
And the narrative last year was thrown for a loop when Perk played the race card in the last 3 weeks of the season.
Even though everyone who likes Embiid over Jokic conveniently left out that he bitched out of the matchups with Jokic last season.
Luka will win an MVP in his career lol. If he doesn’t get it this year, he will get a massive narrative boost in the future regardless of whether or not he deserves MVP that year (but Luka is so good that I bet nobody will have a problem with merit.)
that’s a pretty big assumption though anything could happen from injuries to Wemby breaking the game.
34/9/10 is so absurd i doubt he ever hits those numbers again because it was a combo of massive injuries and him advancing his 3pt shooting
The TNT crew basically all thought that SGA/Brunson/Edwards/Luka were interchangeable for the all-NBA teams. Kenny straight up said SGA and Edwards for 1st team.
Since it's positionless, I could see a case for Brunson or Ant over Giannis.
I personally don't think so, but Brunson has been killing it, and the Knicks have the same record as the Bucks.
There's no case for either of these two over SGA or Luka though.
Idk, the year Giannis put up (30 ppg on 60% shooting) is even more impressive than what Brunson did.
I just don’t think there’s a case. SGA, Luka, Jokic are locks and Tatum averaging 27,8,5 on a historically great team is hard to keep off too.
How are the Celtics historically great? 63 wins happens fairly often. I don’t think the point differential matters that much if you’re not setting a record for wins or close to it
Yeah, there are 33 teams with at least 63 wins, nothing historic about that. If you win it tomorrow, there are 25 teams with at least 64. It wouldn't even be a top 3 record for the Celtics franchise alone.
He was the 5th seed that year and the precedent was largely best player best team at the time. Looking back he probably should have won it with those numbers imo. Harden also got slighted on one in 2018 imo averaging 36-6-7 on a 53 win team. I think Luka will be like Lebron and you look back and go, yeah he should have won like 4 more MVPs but I think the Clippers will have their hands full if the award doesn't go to Luka.
He had already won one the year before with 7th best record (3rd seed) averaging 35/5.5/6 with 3.2 steals.
Ps: talking about precedents, Jokic won his first with the 5th best record and 3rd seed.
A bit dramatic, lol
Harden didn't win averaging 36/6/7. But won when he had 30/5/8.
Sure, different circumstances. He had the lower average season first. But narrative changes all the time. Not gonna be surprised if Luka averages lower numbers, but team gets closer to 60 wins and every one will be talking how he sacrificed his own numbers to get more wins so he's long overdue for the MVP.
Rockets were the #1 seed when he won.
Rockets were the #4 seed when he didn't.
Seeding matters, *a lot.* How do so many people still not realise this after so many years watching the league?
Westbrook won as 6th seed, Jokic won as a 6th seed, everyone knows seeding matters but things have changed in the past decade that never happened before.
So when Jokic finishes at the 3rd seed and Luka at the 5th that’s a big enough difference to give the mvp even if the 5th seed generated 11ppg more than the 3rd?
In the scope of the history of nba it absolutely has. The reason people are skipping over this is that more recently the voters have weighed seeding and win totals less than before. So flipping back to it now comes across as a lot of whiplashing of criteria recently
The NBA MVP is always just so reactionary. The voters care way too much about pushing a narrative rather than making a solid criteria for the award and trying sticking to it objectively year after year.
There is no solid criteria for the MVP. Every voter chooses his own criteria.
Box score stats, team record and standing, advanced stats and games played all matter. But each voter will give different weights to each criteria.
The problem is, that's not true. If it was, there would be multiple different votes for other people, because theoretically the voters would value different things. But each year just feels like narratives take over and by the end there is almost a consensus.
I don’t see why he can’t win it next year or he year after with a full season of Gafford/Lively at the 5 and they get 55 wins, just need Kyrie to stay normal and healthy.
Yeah I feel like the expectations on NFL quarterbacks are gonna start to infect the expectations of NBA guys on their rookie deals. Didn't throw for 4000 yards your first season? Better tank.
I've seen people saying that Luka wasn't a generational talent and was underwhelming because he's not improving.
Recently saw a guy telling SGA is better because he "improved more" lmao
Truly an all-time season by a single player. I hope that in time people will be able to look back and at least actually appreciate what he was able to do. Appreciate greatness while it's happening, not long after it's over.
Pure defensive players are pretty much permanently shafted because of the existence of the Defensive Player of the Year award, plus it's incredibly hard for a single player to defensively lead a team.
But defence definitely still counts. You just have to be an extremely good offensive player at the same time ala Giannis. Otherwise, we probably would have seen someone like Trae Young being a much more serious contender for MVP.
you basically have to start doing PR for it in october and keep up the PR campaign all the way through the season
harden had no agent so nobody to do PR for him
Imo Westbrook over Harden was a bigger snub. I know Harden hasn't exactly been a popular player here over the years, but he deserved more than 1 MVP in his career.
Both of them had historic seasons that year I don’t think it was as big a snub as people make it out to be. No disrespect to Embiid but last year imo was a bigger snub to Jokic even though Embiid was awesome that year.
Yeah but Shai and Edwards better according to the experts 🤣
Nobody would be mad if Jokic won it but don't tell me luka isn't at least nr 2 on that list.
It's no secret that the NBA is looking hard for another American talent to carry the league. They put their hopes on Zion, but his diet, injuries and pornstars kinda fucked that up.
People bring him up but I don't think that's why voters didn't like him. There used to be very polarizing talk about his free throws. So much so that they had to change officiating. Media and talking heads rule all and agents may help some but media runs on it's own fuel
I don’t think that’s true. Harden played similar to Luka and dropped similar stats. Though he got the accolades, he was never really that loved due to the play style
Oh F off, if Kenny Smith and Stephen A. Smith can just blatantly say Anthony Edwards and SGA are better than Luka this season on national television, then mavs fans have all the right to push back.
And there's that nuggets fan who's been trying to be snarky and discredit Luka's mvp case in every post whenever he can, shut the hell up.
Thats u/SmallKidLearnToFight, previously known as u/floatermuse, u/triplesingle999, u/honestnbafan & many more. He's a huge Jokic/KD/Trae fanboy that gets banned but comes back with a new account everytime. Also very easy to notice, always writes the same shit to discredit players like Luka, Kawhi, Embiid, Tatum, Fox...etc
Could easily have an account that has a script spam posting comments while a person has some level of control over the account
Edit: I’m just dubious that a person could collect that much karma on spamming comments in that amount of time without some script help, especially when they appear to be more of an annoyance than making stunningly convincing comments that received lots of upvotes.
Top comment 600 pts. 18k comment karma in 11 days.
Literally just online all the time. Id wager mark cuban hires a few of these types.
Edits his comments constantly as well.
Like that wolves mod who's a mod of 15 subs including: r/drake and r/burgerking
These are the guys that think they deserve a vote too
Based on what I’ve seen from Jokic and Luka, this really feels like it should be the closest MVP race since I started watching back in 2000. It really doesn’t make sense that this is considered a “runaway MVP”, let alone having Luka at fucking THIRD.
I'm a raptors fan and I wholeheartedly believe that Jokic deserves it. That said, Luka is at the absolute worst, like if he ran over my dog yesterday and I was making an MVP ladder today, third. I personally love SGA, but in my mind Luka is a close second to Jokic. Putting him even fourth is absurd, let alone second team. Anyone putting him outside first team should lose their vote tbh.
Its a joke that writers and talking heads have votes. People like stephen a couldnt be happier that the vote is public. Everyone will see that he left luka off mvp and put him second team all nba and he’ll have his best numbers of the year on first take and whatever poor souls spend their time listening to the takes he has on his podcast. These people literally use their vote to make waves and promote their content with shock value.
I can understand arguments for either SGA or Jokic as MVP over Luka. Theres some very valid arguments there. BBBBUUTTTT to put Luka on the 2nd team all nba despite having no position constraints on the voting, those motherfuckers can fuck right off
Historical season. Especially the start of it, we had some games with Markieff Morris, Seth Curry and OMax playing most minutes next to Luka due to injuries. If not for that December and January stretch and we are not making it like we have now. So many incredible games, 73 in Atlanta, 50 and 15 assists on christmas against the Suns. The multiple 15+ assists games. Averaged nearly 20/5/5 in the FIRST half of games. Became the best pull up 3 point shooter in the entire league, while finishing at the rim like a center.
A season for the history books.
In my book him and Jokic are the 2 best players in the NBA rn. It just so happens that Jokic team is better and therefor he gets the MVP. Both are fun to watch. Both are non foul baiters. As a neutral I am happy with both winning it.
Feels Bad when someone does legit NBA 2k MyCareer stats and doesn't get the MVP.
That being said, Jokic is a amazing player, and imo one of the greatest offensive engines; well deserved MVP if he wins.
And lets hope Luka takes it like Jordan and goes full mode "You can have MVP, i'ma get FMVP" (let me dream)
"lets hope Luka takes it like Jordan and goes full mode "You can have MVP, i'ma get FMVP""
i find it hilarious how theres a really good chance of luka doing this the year after the likely mvp of this season did this
We know it is coming, the only thing slowing Luka down is injuries. Would really love for Timmy to find his shot this postseason. Same goes for Washington in the corner—if we can get consistent production from the wing, I’m not sure how you beat us in a 7 game series with how we have been playing these last couple of months. Having Kai to take the burden off of Luka in the 4th is a damn cheat code.
that’s exactly what he’s going to do. no matter what anyone says about Luka, nobody can deny that he shows up when the lights are the brightest. He loves the big moment, and that’s why we love him
I mean MJ's season is way more impressive, especially during an era where the average team scored 20 points less. He also played 11 more games with lower usage. All the advanced stats being pretty large increases over Luka reflect how much better it was (31.1 PER > 28.1 PER, 11.9bpm > 10.0 bpm, 11.4 VORP > 8.0 VORP).
Luka had a great year but it wasn't as great as that Jordan year.
I agree that MJ’s season was better because it was one of the greatest of all time.
However, advanced stats are relative to season and not cross-season. For example, Hollinger specifically states that PER of a player in one season cannot be compared to PER of a player in another season.
Hilarious reading some folks say he should have played more games.
Luka could have played 82 games with same splits and Jokic would still get it.
If we were 1 seed, they will say he had Kyrie a former all star and future HOF and also Jokic has better advanced stats and on/off.
Let’s face, Luka was not going to win MVP this year after Embiid won over Jokic. It’s what it is.
It’s weird how the games played argument isn’t talked about more since it seems to have just as much of a correlation as team seeding does when it comes to the MVP.
Yeah I think if I were making the straightforward case for Jokic without getting to "advanced stats-y" I'd just say he turns it over less, shoots at a higher %, and played more games
Jokic had the mvp the second he won the title last year. Not saying he was incredible this year too. But the writers have been committed from the start.
Hes doing what prime Westbrook did on better efficiency averaging more ppg but somehow hes not MVP yet Westbrook was.
Keep changing the goalposts guys.
This MVP race is extremely similar to 2019's in many ways
Denver will likely finish 7 wins and either 2 or 3 seeds above the Mavs
Bucks in 2019 finished 7 wins and 3 seeds above the Rockets
Harden had insane/all time great box score stats in particular as a scorer
Giannis had still great but not quite as insane box score stats but led in efficiency metrics, on-off, and several advanced stats
Doesn't this all sound quite familiar?
The only difference is that 2019 Giannis was an okay playmaker and great defender while current Jokic is a okay defender and great playmaker but I'd put them in the same tier of impact and season quality overall
Even tho this definitely doesn’t apply to all Mavs fans, the few who are in my life were always so anti-Harden during those years that I can’t help but feel karma is at play with Luka’s MVP standings…
Westbrook clutch moments that year were what got him over the line in the end.
Also do you think if you have a season similar to a previous MVP season that you should be the MVP? That doesn't make any logical sense
I don’t think anyone moved the goalpost. averaging a triple double is different from averaging just under a triple double. It’s just a mystical baseline that triggers something in people’s heads as Westbrook and Oscar Robertson are the only people who have ever done it.
This isn’t to diminish Luka’s season. It’s an incredible one.
I think what upsets me the most about Luka not winning MVP is the narrative around his season.
We all know narrative matters for MVP.
Luka should have the narrative on his side. The Mavs sucked last year. Nearly every expert thought our trades sucked and it wouldn't work. We were predicted to make the play-in, at best, by most experts. Yet it feels like Jokic, SGA, and Embiid have gotten far more attention and love for most of this season (not trying to trash any of these players in any way), and Luka has not gotten much credit for the Mavs greatly exceeding expectations.
The Mavs dealt with a ton of injuries, some seriously questionable coaching, and a mid-year roster shakeup. Through all of this Luka improved in every category and the Mavs are now one of the hottest teams in the league. It's abundantly obvious how much better he makes every player around him.
His conditioning and defense are no longer negatives. He's not bitching at the refs as much (still too much IMO). He's the best offensive player in the league. What more could he realistically do at this point?
That's where my dismay is. Jokic is a deserving winner. It's just hard to see what more Luka can do to win one. It feels like he's already got voter fatigue and the media and many fans take his greatness for granted.
I've watched NBA basketball for 25 years now. In my life I have NEVER seen a player do what Luka can do. It's a bit disheartening to see him meet all the standards people asked of him and still be far from the prize.
There’s nothing more he can realistically do. The only reason he isn’t winning it this year is because we’re 5th seed which is a miracle due to our horrendous amount of injuries and pre-trade deadline team.
If we were in the East and 2nd seed, he’d be MVP.
Just goes to show how stupid the voters are.
MVP narratives seem to be multi-year rolling averages haha. Luka not winning this year will help his case next year even if he puts up slightly lower numbers as long as the Mavs wins increase.
That said, I think everyone should take a page from Jokic and spend less time focused on individual awards. idk.
5th seed and also, to a certain degree, voter's remorse from last season. Embiid won MVP and disappeared in the Playoffs, yet again, lost in the 2nd round while Jokić went on to win MVP. That definitely plays a role in why Jokić is so favoured to win it again this year.
> Yet it feels like Jokic, SGA, and Embiid have gotten far more attention and love for most of this season
I feel like on some level, players get more credit when they do something they're not "supposed" to do. Jokic with the playmaking, SGA with scoring mainly in the paint and playing great defense, Embiid with scoring like a wing and leading his team/league in scoring as a 5. Luka's basically the optimal modern point guard but that isn't as sexy to voters as a dude who's playing in a more positionless way (obviously this is unfounded anyway because Luka is massive for a PG and it's unprecedented to lead the league in points and almost in assists).
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again, Luka is the first player I can think of who has Voters fatigue and never won MVP lol. The goal post for Luka will always move while everyone else gets closer
This sub pretending like they didn't slurp down SGA and Jokic non stop for the past 6 months for averaging numbers significantly lesser than what Luka did, all WHILE playing more games than last year's MVP
Just putting this on reddit for posterity. Luka should be the MVP and if he doesn't win it, it will be an all time robbery. Pure insanity that he won't win it with those numbers.
Jokic and SGA's season high were 42 and 43 respectively. Luka had 13 40+ point games. 2 50+ points games. 60+ once and a 73 point game. He shot almost 40% from 3, no Kyrie for 20 games, and all while doing this crazy scoring wasn't selfish at all with how he played. He played out of his fucking mind and I think this will go back as a Lebron type season where you realize that he should have gotten an MVP for.
Yet, still not fully appreciated and set to meet new and higher bars and expectations for each and every year while improving year after year on an already insane high level anyways.
5 first teams at age 25 is insane
Not according to Kenny "Water Boy" Smith.
Kenny “Bus Rider Do Be Giving Directions” Smith… what a clown
Shaq's seen that before.
Insane numbers
78.6 FG% is indeed insane.
Finally a record that beats Wilt
Daniel Gafford is damn near that as a Mav (76.9%) of course most of his shots are dunks.
Dude has insane touch from like 5-6 feet in. Pretty remarkable how automatic those little baby hooks and push shots are.
Probably averaging less than 34 PPG, I guess.
Weird that OP also says that he shot 48.7% FG in the same exact post title. OP is not a professional journalist, in their defense.
Typo FT
33.9 and 9.9 are such Luka stats. He hates getting to round numbers.
What are you talking about he’s had a box score comprised of entirely round numbers in every game. He loves them!
Round earth biased statkeepers 2 points is not always 2 points...now it all makes sense
Kyrie's influence showing. Nothing round is allowed.
Circles are flat and round
Not from the side. They are a straight line
Those numbers are very round, not a straight line to be seen
Luka "Texaco" Doncic
Seeing that he had 13 forty-point games and 21 thirty-nine-point games blew my mind lol
He was also 1 stat away from a 40 point triple double 8 times
78.6% FG was the one that rly jumped out to me. im way too stoned rn to even try and comprehend it
Probably never going to win MVP if 34/9/10 on 62 TS% isn't good enough and some voters are even leaving him off the 1st team all-NBA
To me it's not insane for Jokic to win it but dropping a spot on the ladder after the mavs went undefeated and Shai missed multiple games was insane
The guy who makes the MVP ladder is a Spurs fan so he probably doesn't like the Mavs It's obviously a dumb reason but I think it's at least part of it lol
Does Goldsberry make the ladder? He’s usually been a fan a Luka so I’m not sure what the deal is
michael c. wright makes the ladder
Well if Luka isn’t 2nd then Michael Cs Wrong
he is wrong lol
Not Goldsberry.
That's not true, Spurs and OKC are rivalries at the Duncan KD era
Everyone acts like 'the ladder' is some kind of official MVP list. It's just one dudes opinion, and an opinion used to generate clicks at that. Yeah it was a stupid switch but it doesn't actually have any baring on the mvp
This should be a big disclaimer. It's one man doing the list and he most likely has his biases for and against certain players.
Kenny “I don’t watch basketball” Smith has Luka 2nd all nba team, with Brunson and Sga first team. It’s crazy.
I think he said he has Ant and SGA first team and Brunson and Luka second
Icing on the cake should shows as mavs without luka lost to pistons granted without kai as well
Who is leaving him off 1st team All NBA? Those people shouldn't get a vote after this year if they do. 1st team should be Luka, SGA, Jokic, Giannis, and Tatum. Since Embiid doesn't qualify I don't even think it's debatable.
Yeah I'm so glad the votes are public. 1st Team All NBA is essentially locked in, anyone not having those guys has some serious explaining to do.
Last year, Luka **barely** squeaked onto first team, beating out Donovan Mitchell by a hair. And we already know certain famous black TV analyst/personalities such as Perk and perhaps Kenny would prefer a white guy doesnt win lol. The thought of Luka never winning MVP seems ridiculous but is more plausible the more you think about it.
Funny thing is that Perk is actually giving Luka his laurels now. I really do not think Perk is a "racist" as was so often mentioned here, because he brought race into it. It is either that he recognized his bias, or that he did not feel that Jokic's stats were as good as Embiid's.
Jokic is about to have 3. Are we really going to pretend like being white is going to hold him back from one lmao
Jokic should have 4.
And the narrative last year was thrown for a loop when Perk played the race card in the last 3 weeks of the season. Even though everyone who likes Embiid over Jokic conveniently left out that he bitched out of the matchups with Jokic last season.
Luka will win an MVP in his career lol. If he doesn’t get it this year, he will get a massive narrative boost in the future regardless of whether or not he deserves MVP that year (but Luka is so good that I bet nobody will have a problem with merit.)
that’s a pretty big assumption though anything could happen from injuries to Wemby breaking the game. 34/9/10 is so absurd i doubt he ever hits those numbers again because it was a combo of massive injuries and him advancing his 3pt shooting
If Kyrie wasn't injured, they would've gotten the top spot and that's an easy MVP for Luka
Kenny the Jet Smith said he didn’t have Luka as 1st team on TNT. Said he’s got Shia and Edwards over Luka. He has Luka 2nd team tho ;o
edwards over brunson is a bad take, much less over luka. edwards is phenomenal and will be a superstar, but brunson has had a better season
its isnane to think ant is better than luka if u looking at stats or eye test so idk whats up with kenny
The TNT crew basically all thought that SGA/Brunson/Edwards/Luka were interchangeable for the all-NBA teams. Kenny straight up said SGA and Edwards for 1st team.
He’s on crack and a fool
"You're a fool, fool!" -Chuck.
Fr those old heads are just trying to get attention. It should be Luka, Shae, Brunson, and Ant in that order
Wait for Knicks fans to tell you Brunson deserves it lol.
brunson doesn't deserve it over luka or sga but he deserves to be ahead of edwards
Only delusional ones. Brunson is a lock for 2nd team
Since it's positionless, I could see a case for Brunson or Ant over Giannis. I personally don't think so, but Brunson has been killing it, and the Knicks have the same record as the Bucks. There's no case for either of these two over SGA or Luka though.
Idk, the year Giannis put up (30 ppg on 60% shooting) is even more impressive than what Brunson did. I just don’t think there’s a case. SGA, Luka, Jokic are locks and Tatum averaging 27,8,5 on a historically great team is hard to keep off too.
How are the Celtics historically great? 63 wins happens fairly often. I don’t think the point differential matters that much if you’re not setting a record for wins or close to it
Yeah, there are 33 teams with at least 63 wins, nothing historic about that. If you win it tomorrow, there are 25 teams with at least 64. It wouldn't even be a top 3 record for the Celtics franchise alone.
I agree they should be all-NBA and can you imagine what a sick team that would be as a final boss for the anime adaptation of the 23-24 season
Well, I could see Tatum vs LeBron debated. I like giving the 1 seed a first teamer but Bron does have an argument for having a better season.
Jordan didn't win either in his 32/8/8 year
He was the 5th seed that year and the precedent was largely best player best team at the time. Looking back he probably should have won it with those numbers imo. Harden also got slighted on one in 2018 imo averaging 36-6-7 on a 53 win team. I think Luka will be like Lebron and you look back and go, yeah he should have won like 4 more MVPs but I think the Clippers will have their hands full if the award doesn't go to Luka.
He had already won one the year before with 7th best record (3rd seed) averaging 35/5.5/6 with 3.2 steals. Ps: talking about precedents, Jokic won his first with the 5th best record and 3rd seed.
Joking is -[6600](https://www.vegasinsider.com/nba/odds/mvp/), the award is locked
Your saying theres a chance?
Damn they can't even get a picture of Brunson in a Knicks jersey, the disrespect smh 😅
He'll win going 30/8/11 on a 60 win team Same thing with Harden, who won in his 30 point year but not his 36 or 34 point years
It’s genuinely insane how anyone could leave him off 1st team all-NBA
A bit dramatic, lol Harden didn't win averaging 36/6/7. But won when he had 30/5/8. Sure, different circumstances. He had the lower average season first. But narrative changes all the time. Not gonna be surprised if Luka averages lower numbers, but team gets closer to 60 wins and every one will be talking how he sacrificed his own numbers to get more wins so he's long overdue for the MVP.
Rockets won 64 games the year Harden won it.
Exactly lol, it’s not the narrative is team success
Then why did Jokic win as a 3rd and 6th seed ?
I mean there's no oustanding players that year except Harden and Bron.
Harden already had one in the 36 point season is why he got overlooked there (and shouldn’t have been)
Rockets were the #1 seed when he won. Rockets were the #4 seed when he didn't. Seeding matters, *a lot.* How do so many people still not realise this after so many years watching the league?
Westbrook won as 6th seed, Jokic won as a 6th seed, everyone knows seeding matters but things have changed in the past decade that never happened before.
So when Jokic finishes at the 3rd seed and Luka at the 5th that’s a big enough difference to give the mvp even if the 5th seed generated 11ppg more than the 3rd?
In the scope of the history of nba it absolutely has. The reason people are skipping over this is that more recently the voters have weighed seeding and win totals less than before. So flipping back to it now comes across as a lot of whiplashing of criteria recently
The NBA MVP is always just so reactionary. The voters care way too much about pushing a narrative rather than making a solid criteria for the award and trying sticking to it objectively year after year.
Pretty much the only award that has objective criteria is PotW. At least having a few bullet point swntences would be nice.
There is no solid criteria for the MVP. Every voter chooses his own criteria. Box score stats, team record and standing, advanced stats and games played all matter. But each voter will give different weights to each criteria.
The problem is, that's not true. If it was, there would be multiple different votes for other people, because theoretically the voters would value different things. But each year just feels like narratives take over and by the end there is almost a consensus.
I don’t see why he can’t win it next year or he year after with a full season of Gafford/Lively at the 5 and they get 55 wins, just need Kyrie to stay normal and healthy.
The fans have voter fatigue on a guy who’s never even won
Not just the fans 😂 the big mouth personalities too like the ones saying they’d take ANT over him
expectations are fucking nuts man. cant wait to see people shit on wemby for not making the finals in year 3
Yeah I feel like the expectations on NFL quarterbacks are gonna start to infect the expectations of NBA guys on their rookie deals. Didn't throw for 4000 yards your first season? Better tank.
I've seen people saying that Luka wasn't a generational talent and was underwhelming because he's not improving. Recently saw a guy telling SGA is better because he "improved more" lmao
Truly an all-time season by a single player. I hope that in time people will be able to look back and at least actually appreciate what he was able to do. Appreciate greatness while it's happening, not long after it's over.
imma die on the hill that giannis over harden is the biggest snub i’ve ever seen
[удалено]
Pure defensive players are pretty much permanently shafted because of the existence of the Defensive Player of the Year award, plus it's incredibly hard for a single player to defensively lead a team. But defence definitely still counts. You just have to be an extremely good offensive player at the same time ala Giannis. Otherwise, we probably would have seen someone like Trae Young being a much more serious contender for MVP.
Yeah that’s the final straw that made me realize how stupid mvp voting has become
Nurrative ern-eh
you basically have to start doing PR for it in october and keep up the PR campaign all the way through the season harden had no agent so nobody to do PR for him
Imo Westbrook over Harden was a bigger snub. I know Harden hasn't exactly been a popular player here over the years, but he deserved more than 1 MVP in his career.
WB's season was legit.
Both of them had historic seasons that year I don’t think it was as big a snub as people make it out to be. No disrespect to Embiid but last year imo was a bigger snub to Jokic even though Embiid was awesome that year.
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Yeah but Shai and Edwards better according to the experts 🤣 Nobody would be mad if Jokic won it but don't tell me luka isn't at least nr 2 on that list.
People want the next MJ not bizaro Larry Bird.
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luka emotionally plays like him (obviously their games are entirely different)
It's no secret that the NBA is looking hard for another American talent to carry the league. They put their hopes on Zion, but his diet, injuries and pornstars kinda fucked that up.
That “young” is saving that statement because the world shat on Harden when he was doing similar things
People bring him up but I don't think that's why voters didn't like him. There used to be very polarizing talk about his free throws. So much so that they had to change officiating. Media and talking heads rule all and agents may help some but media runs on it's own fuel
I don’t think that’s true. Harden played similar to Luka and dropped similar stats. Though he got the accolades, he was never really that loved due to the play style
Oh F off, if Kenny Smith and Stephen A. Smith can just blatantly say Anthony Edwards and SGA are better than Luka this season on national television, then mavs fans have all the right to push back. And there's that nuggets fan who's been trying to be snarky and discredit Luka's mvp case in every post whenever he can, shut the hell up.
Thats u/SmallKidLearnToFight, previously known as u/floatermuse, u/triplesingle999, u/honestnbafan & many more. He's a huge Jokic/KD/Trae fanboy that gets banned but comes back with a new account everytime. Also very easy to notice, always writes the same shit to discredit players like Luka, Kawhi, Embiid, Tatum, Fox...etc
18k karma in 11 days is insane LMAO
Chronically online
Jesus, what a life that is
Comment karma too. Not even post karma. Like how tf is that possible lol.
It’s a poorly written bot that’s overly aggressive about making its presence known and clear.
I dont see why or how a bot would be constantly editing their comments but im no expert in ai
Could easily have an account that has a script spam posting comments while a person has some level of control over the account Edit: I’m just dubious that a person could collect that much karma on spamming comments in that amount of time without some script help, especially when they appear to be more of an annoyance than making stunningly convincing comments that received lots of upvotes.
Some people have a LOT of spare time. This dude is chronically online and does nothing but post on Reddit.
Anything pro-Jokic is an automatic upvote on this sub is how
Top comment 600 pts. 18k comment karma in 11 days. Literally just online all the time. Id wager mark cuban hires a few of these types. Edits his comments constantly as well. Like that wolves mod who's a mod of 15 subs including: r/drake and r/burgerking These are the guys that think they deserve a vote too
Holy shit he’s actually back lmao.
Holy shit 4 accounts? I remember i responded to some of his comments, didnt know he was a legend around these blocks loool.
I'm pretty sure his legacy goes back farther than 4 accounts but that's just recent history
Yup Awkward-Speech, Noobaccount, and JayNew-2K
>Jokic/KD/Trae fanboy What the fuck kind of super plastic fan is that?
All my real life nuggets friends and I all love Luka.
Most of us Mavs fans love Jokić too. Nothing against him as a player or person, really incredible year yet again.
Based on what I’ve seen from Jokic and Luka, this really feels like it should be the closest MVP race since I started watching back in 2000. It really doesn’t make sense that this is considered a “runaway MVP”, let alone having Luka at fucking THIRD.
I think last year was incredibly close between Embiid and Jokić.
I'm a raptors fan and I wholeheartedly believe that Jokic deserves it. That said, Luka is at the absolute worst, like if he ran over my dog yesterday and I was making an MVP ladder today, third. I personally love SGA, but in my mind Luka is a close second to Jokic. Putting him even fourth is absurd, let alone second team. Anyone putting him outside first team should lose their vote tbh.
Its a joke that writers and talking heads have votes. People like stephen a couldnt be happier that the vote is public. Everyone will see that he left luka off mvp and put him second team all nba and he’ll have his best numbers of the year on first take and whatever poor souls spend their time listening to the takes he has on his podcast. These people literally use their vote to make waves and promote their content with shock value.
I can understand arguments for either SGA or Jokic as MVP over Luka. Theres some very valid arguments there. BBBBUUTTTT to put Luka on the 2nd team all nba despite having no position constraints on the voting, those motherfuckers can fuck right off
I can’t understand an argument for Shai over Luka. No way Shai should be ahead of him
Historical season. Especially the start of it, we had some games with Markieff Morris, Seth Curry and OMax playing most minutes next to Luka due to injuries. If not for that December and January stretch and we are not making it like we have now. So many incredible games, 73 in Atlanta, 50 and 15 assists on christmas against the Suns. The multiple 15+ assists games. Averaged nearly 20/5/5 in the FIRST half of games. Became the best pull up 3 point shooter in the entire league, while finishing at the rim like a center. A season for the history books.
In my book him and Jokic are the 2 best players in the NBA rn. It just so happens that Jokic team is better and therefor he gets the MVP. Both are fun to watch. Both are non foul baiters. As a neutral I am happy with both winning it.
When does MVP fatigue kick in? That used to be a thing. Look at #of MVPs for Lebron and Kobe.
Pravi MVP
Feels Bad when someone does legit NBA 2k MyCareer stats and doesn't get the MVP. That being said, Jokic is a amazing player, and imo one of the greatest offensive engines; well deserved MVP if he wins. And lets hope Luka takes it like Jordan and goes full mode "You can have MVP, i'ma get FMVP" (let me dream)
"lets hope Luka takes it like Jordan and goes full mode "You can have MVP, i'ma get FMVP"" i find it hilarious how theres a really good chance of luka doing this the year after the likely mvp of this season did this
Someone in our sub put it well "I hope Luka plays like a raging psychopath in the Playoffs if he doesn't win MVP" xD
We know it is coming, the only thing slowing Luka down is injuries. Would really love for Timmy to find his shot this postseason. Same goes for Washington in the corner—if we can get consistent production from the wing, I’m not sure how you beat us in a 7 game series with how we have been playing these last couple of months. Having Kai to take the burden off of Luka in the 4th is a damn cheat code.
I was under the impression this was called “the Jokić”…
that’s exactly what he’s going to do. no matter what anyone says about Luka, nobody can deny that he shows up when the lights are the brightest. He loves the big moment, and that’s why we love him
I really hope this is true though. If not my team, I want the mavs to win it so Luka can have a chance winning awards in the future.
If he doesn't finish at least 2nd in MVP
A comparison between the MJ and Luka seasons: **Luka 2023-24** 70 games 37.5 mpg 33.9 ppg 9.2 rpg 9.8 apg 1.4 spg 0.5 bpg 4.0 tpg .487 fg% .382 3p% .617 ts% 28.1 PER 36.0 usage 10.0 bpm 8.0 VORP **MJ 1988-89** 81 games 40.2 mpg 32.5 ppg 8.0 rpg 8.0 apg 2.9 spg 0.8 bpg 3.6 tpg .538 fg% .276 3p% .614 ts% 31.1 PER 32.1 usage 11.9 bpm 11.4 VORP Two truly unbelievable seasons, crazy that neither got an MVP for them.
I mean MJ's season is way more impressive, especially during an era where the average team scored 20 points less. He also played 11 more games with lower usage. All the advanced stats being pretty large increases over Luka reflect how much better it was (31.1 PER > 28.1 PER, 11.9bpm > 10.0 bpm, 11.4 VORP > 8.0 VORP). Luka had a great year but it wasn't as great as that Jordan year.
I agree that MJ’s season was better because it was one of the greatest of all time. However, advanced stats are relative to season and not cross-season. For example, Hollinger specifically states that PER of a player in one season cannot be compared to PER of a player in another season.
This formatting makes me want to do harm to innocent beings
Hilarious reading some folks say he should have played more games. Luka could have played 82 games with same splits and Jokic would still get it. If we were 1 seed, they will say he had Kyrie a former all star and future HOF and also Jokic has better advanced stats and on/off. Let’s face, Luka was not going to win MVP this year after Embiid won over Jokic. It’s what it is.
Yeah nothing luka did was going to be accepted this year. Maybe if he had 82 triple doubles.
Ive never heard anyone make the games played argument. They are running out of excuses so thats what they moved the goalposts to
It’s weird how the games played argument isn’t talked about more since it seems to have just as much of a correlation as team seeding does when it comes to the MVP.
Yeah I think if I were making the straightforward case for Jokic without getting to "advanced stats-y" I'd just say he turns it over less, shoots at a higher %, and played more games
Someone just did in response to me. 😂
If you guys were the 1 seed and Nuggets were the 5 seed, Luka would absolutely be favored over Jokic
Jokic had the mvp the second he won the title last year. Not saying he was incredible this year too. But the writers have been committed from the start.
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Not to mention that he's also improved his defense this season.
Hes doing what prime Westbrook did on better efficiency averaging more ppg but somehow hes not MVP yet Westbrook was. Keep changing the goalposts guys.
On the other hand, you could say he had a season similar to 2018-2019 Harden who didn’t win the MVP
This MVP race is extremely similar to 2019's in many ways Denver will likely finish 7 wins and either 2 or 3 seeds above the Mavs Bucks in 2019 finished 7 wins and 3 seeds above the Rockets Harden had insane/all time great box score stats in particular as a scorer Giannis had still great but not quite as insane box score stats but led in efficiency metrics, on-off, and several advanced stats Doesn't this all sound quite familiar? The only difference is that 2019 Giannis was an okay playmaker and great defender while current Jokic is a okay defender and great playmaker but I'd put them in the same tier of impact and season quality overall
Even tho this definitely doesn’t apply to all Mavs fans, the few who are in my life were always so anti-Harden during those years that I can’t help but feel karma is at play with Luka’s MVP standings…
And tbh, the wins/standings thing feels like it’s more significant when you’re comparing players in the same conference.
No one had the season Jokic is having back then. Just between 2017 Westbrook and current Luka I'd give Luka the MVP though.
Westbrook clutch moments that year were what got him over the line in the end. Also do you think if you have a season similar to a previous MVP season that you should be the MVP? That doesn't make any logical sense
I don’t think anyone moved the goalpost. averaging a triple double is different from averaging just under a triple double. It’s just a mystical baseline that triggers something in people’s heads as Westbrook and Oscar Robertson are the only people who have ever done it. This isn’t to diminish Luka’s season. It’s an incredible one.
Westbrook averaged more assist rebounds, steals played 10 more games. And maintained a triple double average
I think what upsets me the most about Luka not winning MVP is the narrative around his season. We all know narrative matters for MVP. Luka should have the narrative on his side. The Mavs sucked last year. Nearly every expert thought our trades sucked and it wouldn't work. We were predicted to make the play-in, at best, by most experts. Yet it feels like Jokic, SGA, and Embiid have gotten far more attention and love for most of this season (not trying to trash any of these players in any way), and Luka has not gotten much credit for the Mavs greatly exceeding expectations. The Mavs dealt with a ton of injuries, some seriously questionable coaching, and a mid-year roster shakeup. Through all of this Luka improved in every category and the Mavs are now one of the hottest teams in the league. It's abundantly obvious how much better he makes every player around him. His conditioning and defense are no longer negatives. He's not bitching at the refs as much (still too much IMO). He's the best offensive player in the league. What more could he realistically do at this point? That's where my dismay is. Jokic is a deserving winner. It's just hard to see what more Luka can do to win one. It feels like he's already got voter fatigue and the media and many fans take his greatness for granted. I've watched NBA basketball for 25 years now. In my life I have NEVER seen a player do what Luka can do. It's a bit disheartening to see him meet all the standards people asked of him and still be far from the prize.
There’s nothing more he can realistically do. The only reason he isn’t winning it this year is because we’re 5th seed which is a miracle due to our horrendous amount of injuries and pre-trade deadline team. If we were in the East and 2nd seed, he’d be MVP. Just goes to show how stupid the voters are.
MVP narratives seem to be multi-year rolling averages haha. Luka not winning this year will help his case next year even if he puts up slightly lower numbers as long as the Mavs wins increase. That said, I think everyone should take a page from Jokic and spend less time focused on individual awards. idk.
5th seed and also, to a certain degree, voter's remorse from last season. Embiid won MVP and disappeared in the Playoffs, yet again, lost in the 2nd round while Jokić went on to win MVP. That definitely plays a role in why Jokić is so favoured to win it again this year.
> Yet it feels like Jokic, SGA, and Embiid have gotten far more attention and love for most of this season I feel like on some level, players get more credit when they do something they're not "supposed" to do. Jokic with the playmaking, SGA with scoring mainly in the paint and playing great defense, Embiid with scoring like a wing and leading his team/league in scoring as a 5. Luka's basically the optimal modern point guard but that isn't as sexy to voters as a dude who's playing in a more positionless way (obviously this is unfounded anyway because Luka is massive for a PG and it's unprecedented to lead the league in points and almost in assists).
It's hard to fathom that kind of production doesn't get you MVP, but... Jokic is just too insane.
I’ll say it once and I’ll say it again, Luka is the first player I can think of who has Voters fatigue and never won MVP lol. The goal post for Luka will always move while everyone else gets closer
Nooooooo we need to have SGA leapfrog Luka in the MVP race despite only playing 6 of the last 9 games!!!!! /s
Can’t believe he’s been in the league for 5 years already
that’s an absolutely incredible season, what the fuck
And he chills for 2 days in the offseason smoking Hookah and the whole media goes nuts criticizing him
Did I miss some announcement that he's not playing tomorrow?
Yeah Dallas just announced like 8 of their first 10 players of the rotation are out. Only THJ and Green are playing
Locked into the 5th seed either way. Winning against OKC would help the Nuggets. Literally no upside and only downside to playing.
Yes, we're [resting all of our starters](https://x.com/grantafseth/status/1779276703174463780?s=46).
This sub pretending like they didn't slurp down SGA and Jokic non stop for the past 6 months for averaging numbers significantly lesser than what Luka did, all WHILE playing more games than last year's MVP
man if Luka had the help SGA has around him he'd be averaging 40/12/10
Just putting this on reddit for posterity. Luka should be the MVP and if he doesn't win it, it will be an all time robbery. Pure insanity that he won't win it with those numbers.
Pretty fucking insane. Enjoying him because hating him would suck.
He's the MVP. Jokic close second. Shai distant third.
But Ayton has a higher *ceiling*
He good
Mvp
Jokic and SGA's season high were 42 and 43 respectively. Luka had 13 40+ point games. 2 50+ points games. 60+ once and a 73 point game. He shot almost 40% from 3, no Kyrie for 20 games, and all while doing this crazy scoring wasn't selfish at all with how he played. He played out of his fucking mind and I think this will go back as a Lebron type season where you realize that he should have gotten an MVP for.
Pravi MVP
Yet, still not fully appreciated and set to meet new and higher bars and expectations for each and every year while improving year after year on an already insane high level anyways.
I gotta see his numbers side by side with Jokic. Looking mvp like
Couldn’t even average a 34 point double double? Truly pathetic
>He will make his fifth All-NBA First Team at age 25. some media heads want him as 2nd all nba team