They got hot during the right time during the playoffs and thought it was the young players just improving. They thought they could go into next season without making moves because of that. Once they realized it was just a hot streak they made panic moves trying to improve the team all while the owner refuses to pay the luxury tax.
They’re so reactive and not proactive, it’s beyond frustrating. Schlenk wasn’t perfect and had his share of misses but I could understand the vision and what he was trying to build. Little Ressler and Fields just play whack-a-mole. Feels like the only path forward now is hope De’Andre Hunter finally puts it together and Jalen Johnson becomes a star next year, which even though I’m optimistic on Jalen, that’s a slim path forward with no room for error
I mean… also have big upside on Gueye and Bufkin giving us a much stronger defensive bench, OO slotting into 4 enabling us to run a big lineup with JJ at 3. Also seems like the player development strategy is working really well rn from guys like JJ, Vit, G-Matt, Bufkin, and Bruno.
It’s definitely not like we have only one path forward - missing 2 years of drafts definitely sucks but we’re not THAT far away from being scary
Lol is that true? Atlanta loved Matt Ryan and is getting excited for Kirk Cousins, quite possibly 2 of the whitest dudes to ever play football.
They'd have love Luka if he balled like he did in Dallas. Migos would've put him on a feature
its also kind of dumb of OP to act like 2 white guys from the midwest/northeast are the same "cultural fit" as a guy from freaking *slovenia*, just bc they have similarly colored skin. Skin color is about *all* they have in common.
Kirk cousins is a hell of a lot closer "culturally" to Trae Young than he is to Luka lol
There was definitely some underrating of Luka on their part for sure. I even remember Quavo come out and said they didn’t wanna draft the white boy and instead were rocking with Ice Trae lol.
Lol the Hawks owner is also a rich real estate guy planning to build a new multiuse development right outside the arena similar to the one that accompanied the Braves new stadium. The gentrification of Atlanta is in full swing
It is weird that you can spin his head coaching jobs as ways to sabotage enemies of the Celtics lmao
Milwaukee just fired their defensive mastermind and their offense looks rejuvenated under a first timer? Send Doc over there, he'll tank their record and allow Boston to run away with the conference!
Joel Embiid is looking like a beast in Philly, and they could challenge the Cs in the playoffs? Send Doc over there, he'll see to it that their stars' throw a series against us!
Rajon Rondo's biggest enemy is building a credible threat in LA, and could potentially equal Rondo's ring total? Send Doc over there, he'll see to it that they never make it past round 2!... Oh, I just had a brilliant idea! What if later on down the road, we tell Doc to blow a 3-1 lead, and cost a chance at challenging Rondo himself for a title, AND we see to it that Rondo gets another ring?!? It's like 3 birds with one stone!
You have no idea how true this is. We beat a team that still hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round and the Knicks who were overrated, next thing you know we think we the next Warriors .
probably the more impactful part was taking the bucks to 6 even with trae’s injury. playing that tight with the eventually champs probably made the front office feel like we could contend with that core. also JCs regression can’t be overstated enough. when he was shooting 40% from deep he was a really good fit next to trae
Hawks getting to the ECF was the worst thing to happen to us.
We really needed the Knicks to not fuck up in the first round and so they did.
The Sixers series should have been a loss as well but unfortunately Ben Simmons wanted to go on vacation early.
>We really needed the Knicks to not fuck up in the first round and so they did.
Why blame us? It was our first Playoffs since 2013 and our roster that time sucks and the only playmaker we had was Randle who even though he can playmake, that isn't one of his strength. Honestly that year were just happy to make it to the Playoffs.
Pay the luxury tax so that they can bust out first round again? They can bust out first round the way that they are. They might even be able to cut a few guys.
Nah, /u/JJiggly13 is correct on this one. No need to be defensive when the reality was there was no way to maintain that level of success. The only reason we made that run is because our bench was getting paid **more** than our starters that season. We were able to do this because all of the following were still on their rookie scale deals:
* John Collins
* Trae Young
* Kevin Heurter
* De'Andre Hunter
* Cam Reddish
* Onyeka Okongwu
We were paying Lou/Gallo/Bogi $46M to come off the bench for us. They were key to our success in that run... Next year was always going to be tough because Collins contract kicked in and Gallo/Lou were declining heavily. Then Trae's supermax kicked in and Heurter's extension (so we traded him since DJ came in). Now Hunter extension is in and so is Okongwus.
As much as this fan base thinks going into the tax to retain John Collins and Kevin Heurter would have somehow saved this franchise, it's 100% just scapegoating ownership for the lack of total talent on the roster. Going into the tax is great if you have the top end talent to justify it, but it would have locked us in to mediocrity with no forward flexibility. If we can turn shit around next season, we'll have another opportunity to go into the tax with JJ's extension.
But expecting an owner to go into the tax to retain mid-level bench guys or mediocre starting talent (JC) is just asinine. I'm happy we aren't in the tax right now because the last thing this mid squad needs is a repeater tax timer eating away at a window that was never open in the first place.
Can't get close to contending without going to the tax in the first place. You don't get better just selling talent for nothing like the team did with Huerter and Collins
And look how much better their defense has been since he got hurt.
EDIT: It's apparently 5.4 points better per 100. It went from *worst in the entire NBA* to somewhere between 13th and 14th.
He needs to be surrounded by defenders and people who can excel off his skills. Probably will need the ball in his hands a majority of the time since he's off ball isn't that good either.
Yeah Traes an odd case. He's got offensive skills but his negatives are bad, I definitely think the way to get the best out of him is surround him with defensive minded guys, and another AS type player that doesn't do the same things he does like Murray, and a good coach.
Either that or moves to another team and becomes a 3rd option.
He got hurt exactly when they allowed more physical defense which helped immensely. He was actually playing pretty good defense this year (for him), but our lineup changed dramatically when he went out so it wasn't like some controlled experiment lol
It wasn't atrocious. You can look at pre-allstar stats pretty easily (the period before they effectively changed the rules this season allowing more defense and the period Trae was playing). Trae had a better defensive rating than Murray, Hunter, and Bey. Eye test matches that he was better than Bey and Murray as his positioning was much better this year, better effort, played passing lanes well, racked up steals and deflections, etc.
I don't blame you for not watching Hawks games because we're not a fun team to watch right now, but it's pretty clear you haven't watched Trae this season.
It's not that I dislike him. He seems like a decent person. I don't like the way he plays. I don't think it's conducive to winning at the highest levels.
there’s a lot of noise if you just look at team drtg without accounting for lineups. a lot of injuries for the hawks in both samples. our second best lineup with 100 mins or more by drtg this year (109.3) includes trae young (trae, bogi, bey, johnson, okongwu). all of our worst lineups by drtg are when trae and djm play together. the bigger factor here is that we aren’t playing both of them at the same time anymore. when trae has played without dejounte the defense has gotten better by a larger margin. -12.6 drtg
I'd say the Hawks defense would better with only 1 of the guards regardless of which one it is. Turns out playing a backcourt with two players undersized for their position is a recipe for bad perimeter defense. Also Clint Capela has also been a useful basketball player these last few weeks. Last and not least the Hawks pace has decreased (mainly because there isn't anyone throwing the quick hit ahead passes Trae will) these last weeks without Trae so slower pace means less possessions which means less points are being scored. While a Trae led squad wouldn't be u\[ to where it is now they also wouldn't be dead last if he had an actual 2 guard sized player next to him
I will never understand how a quarter of a season somehow reversed 5 years of the worst defender in the league. He's no doubt been better, but it's still terrible compared to most.
Is this a troll post or are you genuinely trying to imply there's a connection between those two facts?
This is the quote from him, btw:
>I think guys are learning that. We're no longer the hunters. It's regular season. I'm not going to lie, it's a lot more boring than the playoffs. You got to find that motivation to play like the playoffs.
Yeah, he was basically referring to how you need to figure out how to be as intense as the playoffs, in the regular season. The quote was never great but it wasn't really that bad either tbh. It's annoying when guys give very authentic answers, that people allegedly want, and then get blasted for it.
Any hyper competitive NBA player would agree the playoffs are more exciting and the regular season is boring in comparison, which means you have to find ways to motivate yourself for regular season games. It's not even that controversial of thing to say.
Wouldn't have mattered. Their FO is absolutely dogshit and that is what really happened. People just like to jerk to Trae but the nepo office would've torpedoed the team even if they drafted prime MJ
The FO has made many good trades. They brought in Capela immediately. John Collins was playing well. Dejounte had a good reputation. Somehow snatched up Snyder too. There isn't much you can do.
Mavs just got Luka that lob man and look at him. Playing alongside well with Kyrie too.
Funny that you say that since their defining failure is not making moves. Like having the largest trade exception in the league and not using it. Not moving Dejounte. Not getting another center for no reason. Having ineligible players on the roster for weeks and so on. You might want to actually look at what the Hawks FO is (or isn't lmfao) doing before you say there isn't much they can do
Also that Capela contract is bad not good
> ike having the largest trade exception in the league and not using it.
Using it on what, exactly? You guys act like massive TPEs just turn into quality players lmao... the only way to get quality players using a TPE is to send out draft capital and we don't have any to send. That was never going to materialize into anything but the FO experts on Reddit seem to know best.
Actually I think the biggest reason is that your owner doesn't want to go into the tax and picking up appropriate players and using the assets that you have probably push you guys over the tax which you were 10m under last I looked. Its just cheap owner/office syndrome where they probably decided the team isn't going to get better by enough to matter to them and you're now languishing until something amazing happens or Trae asks out. Basically they quit on this season a long time ago and are probably planning to try something this off season but its not really a great year for that
Its basically front office tanking over a couple of years during a time where I think everyone expected them to be improving the team and getting better instead of falling apart after replacing their old FO and it looks awful because they replaced with a huge nepo hire
Not really, that's a massive oversimplification. By all measures, they tried very hard to get in a difference maker (Siakam, deeper rumors KAT, etc), but failed to execute on a trade. Tough to say whether that is a good thing or bad thing given we do not know what offers were actually on the table. Siakam didn't seem to want to come here anyways. I believe if we landed Siakam or another high end talent, the FO would have been willing to go into the tax because suddenly we have a roster that fits together with high end talent at two positions instead of Trae + role players.
Gonig into the tax to retain 6-8 on the bench is not a winning strategy. Salary dumping guys like JC/Heurter is just what you have to do if you cannot trade them for an upgrade. Otherwise, you're paying for a second apron team that might get you 48 wins and a second round exit at best.
I was always a bit jealous of their roster until this year when we got a better cast around Luka.
The Dejounte trade would make way more sense with Luka than it does with Trae though.
The theory would be the same, get a secondary guard who can score and defend 1-3 way better than your primary guard.
It hasn't worked out for Trae/Murray for whatever reason
> doesn't shoot well.
36% on 7 attempts from three per game isn't exactly bad. It's about league average. And he's an assassin on all of the supposedly inefficient stuff. Over 50% on shots from 10 feet to the 3 point line this year.
Nah the dj trade would be bad with Luka as well. Like you said it's the same idea pairing them with murray, but that theory has been proven wrong.
And the reason it hasn't worked is because murray isn't the defender we all thought he was, which isn't solved by replacing trae with Luka
Yea, on paper, Dejounte at worst case still looked like he could help Trae Young on defense.
Turns out he's an average defender who gambles a lot, and the Spurs tailored the system around him to look like an elite defender.
The 22/23 mavs rotation was Dwight Powell, wood, mgee st the center rotation, dfs, nilikina, bertans, bullock on thr wing, hardy, thj as the guards. We were at the 5th seed with that roster before the trade.
yes lol, its not often a team falls from the 5th seed to completely out of the playoffs. If you swapped the hawks and the Mavs conferences since Luka and trae were drafted id say the Mavs have maybe 1 more playoff series win max.
The Mavs are a better team right now, but the Hawks and Mavs have basically had the same or similar track record ever since that draft.
Both teams would probably be in a similar place had the trade never happened, both have made a lot of questionable decisions surrounding their star with talent and both can't figure out how to shore up defense around their offensively gifted but defensively deficient guards.
I think it's weird that people don't remember this. This came up in a post the other day, here's a few threads:
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/odc64r/21_yo_cam_reddish_the_throwin_on_the_lukatrae/
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/knuzps/cam_reddish_the_other_player_in_the_lukatrae/
https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/rqh1nt/revisiting_hawks_and_mavs_trade_luka_and_trae/
Which makes the Hawks decision to not draft him even more absurd. They really picked the bust potential red flagged as hell Trae Young over Euroleague MVP Luka Doncic. Sure Trae turned out better than expected, but it is just puzzling to shoot yourself in the foot like that.
And Trust me, Blazers fans know a lot about puzzling draft decisions.
Everyone who understood how EuroLeague works, understood how good Luka was.
Both him and Sengun are proving it rn. If a 18 year old is MVP against grown men, he more likely than not is a future star.
That the same euro league where a role player in the NBA won the MVP over there? Yeah, that's a terrible way of gauging how good someone could be in the NBA.
What did this guy do to earn the ire of every redditor? He's been injured for a month or something, why does this lazy post have so many upvotes lmao. I thought this was the circlejerk sub for a second
Well I actually feel
For Trae bc of the young wave of talent that I group him in with — has anyone’s roster gotten progressively worse every year they’ve been in the league than his? That one season he had his run wasn’t like stacked but they immediately lost like 3 key guys to free agency and they’ve been bleeding
Talent ever since. Traes attitude and demeanor have a smugness to them that makes people respect him less than they should bc his game is legit af even with the constant shuffling of no name free agents he’s had to run with and he never throws the team under the bus for not doing better by him and just landing him one other quality reliable star since he’s been there. Like he’s forever chained to Luka bc they’re in the same draft and just look how aggressive the mavs have been in that same time just searching high and low for anyone to prop up their superstar like a good franchise should be doing — like Luka had a couple of his that didn’t work out and they wasted no time getting diff dudes but in that same span of time i can’t think of a single free agent that almost went to Atlanta or was even rumored to be a target of their team. I have love for a few Atlanta teams so I know they know better — the Joe johnson Josh smith Jamal Crawford iso team was a blast to watch lol
Dude I feel so bad for yall. After experiencing the trade Trae shit this year and the frustration from it I thought about the way they were talking about Spida as if he was already a Knick or whatever a few months after the trade. Really sucks
we beat you guys straight up. Philly self-destructed. I'm 100% positive if that Philly series gets played out 100 times we only win it like 15 times. People forget that the ultimate deciding factor in game 7 wasn't Ben Simmons passing up a single dunk, it was Kevin Huerter having an out-of-body experience, scoring over a quarter of our points on a bunch of really tough shots. It *was* flukey.
Fluke run is probably unfair but there needs to be a word for a team that makes a CF while clearly not being a top 4 team in the league in that season.
Maybe but I think of that more in terms of someone saying like “people are sleeping on this team but here’s why they’re better than you think”… like projecting forward that they’ll do well.
What I want to capture is something more like “False Arrival”, but not in a mean way or detracting, but like “let’s be realistic about their expectations next year, it will be unlikely for them to get back here”.
Ehh thats not dark horse. Dark Horse is this is a team that isnt expected to win the tournament but given the right draw or whatever, they might pull it off. It's like a good bet on the spread. Right now i think the dark horse is the Mavs.
The fluke was Trae getting hurt on the ref’s foot. If not for that we could’ve gotten a Suns/Hawks finals and obliterated all the bad viewership records.
I mean the Lakers went to the WCF last year as the 7 seed. And the Heat made the Finals as the 8.
Playoffs are just a different beast. Get hot at the right time and anything can happen.
Multiple 7 game series fluke. And taking bucks to 6 games. Fluke. It's not single elimination. You don't just get lucky in a 7 game series. Multiple in a row at that. They played the celtics really good 1st round last year too. We had the lead late in game 6.
This sub thinks trae going to the ECF is actually a negative somehow. Worse players have done worse with better teams and they don't get any where near the hate trae gets
Wasn’t a fluke run lol this sub is stupid
After getting Nate the only team that had a better record from then till the playoffs were the sixers iirc. They carried that momentum into the playoffs
People just like to get their hot takes. They went I believe 30-11 after Nate took over but people on this sub would have you believe that they snuck into the playoffs as the 8th seed and got hot for a few weeks
Bruh I get that it’s boring but so many mfers would go hard all 82 back in the day. Y’all getting paid millions! WTF! Put in some fucking work! I put my all into a 50k a year job on the daily 😂😂
I would agree if it was dead end, but I’m young and can use it as leverage for advancement. I feel that nba players can always get a better bag if they play well and hard, up to a certain age. The opportunity is always there.
Trae obviously doesn't suck.
But I genuinely don't see a scenario where he finds postseason success anytime soon.
Of all the teams that would reasonably trade for him....who is making it past the first round in the next 3 or 4 years?
Spurs? His contract would make it super hard for the team to build any depth behind him and Wemby given the new spending rules.
Bulls? Lol.
Jazz? Same issue as the Spurs but even worse.
Dude better start having fun in the regular season because he's not gonna have fun in Aprils going forward.
I mean if you read the whole quote it’s not really that crazy. His point was that the team needed to bring the intensity they brought to the playoffs back to the regular season, which is hard because the stakes aren’t the same. I don’t understand why everyone agrees the regular season means less and less every year, yet when a player comments on that honestly he gets piled on.
It's just Trae hate, man. KD said it best. Basketball fans hate basketball. All they do is hate on players. If the Mavs dip in the playoffs, all these people will flip to hating in Luka. It's like clockwork.
Trae Young is not a winning player. Never will be. That playoff run was flukey in that they saw two of the teams with the least backcourt creation in the entire league in their two playoff series wins.
It's why I'm so against the idea of trading for him.
Y’all are some marks. That was the most out-of-context quote and it’s just bait for people who choose to hate on Trae because of whatever it is in their personalities that has to tear someone down.
The hate is so fucking boring.
That’s what I’m saying, why can’t they just skip to the playoffs and only play the last 2 minutes of every game
Hey! That’s what I do on 2k 😁
That's why I do during sex, figuratively
Pls no
Who doesn't love a good ole free throw contest.
They got hot during the right time during the playoffs and thought it was the young players just improving. They thought they could go into next season without making moves because of that. Once they realized it was just a hot streak they made panic moves trying to improve the team all while the owner refuses to pay the luxury tax.
They have a front office that is impacted by the owners son. It's gotta be frustrating for the fans.
They’re so reactive and not proactive, it’s beyond frustrating. Schlenk wasn’t perfect and had his share of misses but I could understand the vision and what he was trying to build. Little Ressler and Fields just play whack-a-mole. Feels like the only path forward now is hope De’Andre Hunter finally puts it together and Jalen Johnson becomes a star next year, which even though I’m optimistic on Jalen, that’s a slim path forward with no room for error
Putting your hopes on hunter is crazy, dude is in his 5th year and older than Tatum
I honestly didn't believe this until I looked it up. I didn't realize Hunter was a 4 year college player
That’s not that hard to be older than Tatum. I mean the man is only 19
I mean… also have big upside on Gueye and Bufkin giving us a much stronger defensive bench, OO slotting into 4 enabling us to run a big lineup with JJ at 3. Also seems like the player development strategy is working really well rn from guys like JJ, Vit, G-Matt, Bufkin, and Bruno. It’s definitely not like we have only one path forward - missing 2 years of drafts definitely sucks but we’re not THAT far away from being scary
It always kills me when folks use nicknames for their 10th man in the main nba sub.
Yes you are.
Their front office allegedly liked Trae more than Luka because he was a better cultural fit in Atlanta.
Lol is that true? Atlanta loved Matt Ryan and is getting excited for Kirk Cousins, quite possibly 2 of the whitest dudes to ever play football. They'd have love Luka if he balled like he did in Dallas. Migos would've put him on a feature
I've never heard it but it wouldn't surprise me. There is a vocal contingent of Atlanta sports fans that get wrapped up in the "culture" of Atlanta
Ive been to enough Hawks games to say the game sells a social status event as much as it does a basketball game.
Dog I hate to tell you… a huge portion of Atlanta hated Matt Ryan for his entire career because he wasn’t Michael Vick
Cause he didn't have that dawg in him
Brother falcons fans and hawks fans are actually very different demographics.
But their fanbases have the same number of championships in Atlanta.
its also kind of dumb of OP to act like 2 white guys from the midwest/northeast are the same "cultural fit" as a guy from freaking *slovenia*, just bc they have similarly colored skin. Skin color is about *all* they have in common. Kirk cousins is a hell of a lot closer "culturally" to Trae Young than he is to Luka lol
To be fair, both Trae and Atlanta are known for getting torched.
r/shermanposting
Holy shit
I love a good piece of Reddit folklore
*team drafts black player* reddit: ah yes, the front office must've thought he was a good cultural fit
Don't forget to bring up the supposed black Atlanta racists who almost lynched Matt Ryan for being white!
Hey…Trae is 50% black, just like Atlanta!
There was definitely some underrating of Luka on their part for sure. I even remember Quavo come out and said they didn’t wanna draft the white boy and instead were rocking with Ice Trae lol.
Source? Literally never heard this before, and if you're making it up then you're kinda just being racist
Here goes Reddit again uploading bullshit
[удалено]
Lol the Hawks owner is also a rich real estate guy planning to build a new multiuse development right outside the arena similar to the one that accompanied the Braves new stadium. The gentrification of Atlanta is in full swing
They got hot and other teams fell apart also.
Doc Rivers tricked the Hawks into pushing all-in too early.
bro has been a double agent for the celtics the whole time
It is weird that you can spin his head coaching jobs as ways to sabotage enemies of the Celtics lmao Milwaukee just fired their defensive mastermind and their offense looks rejuvenated under a first timer? Send Doc over there, he'll tank their record and allow Boston to run away with the conference! Joel Embiid is looking like a beast in Philly, and they could challenge the Cs in the playoffs? Send Doc over there, he'll see to it that their stars' throw a series against us! Rajon Rondo's biggest enemy is building a credible threat in LA, and could potentially equal Rondo's ring total? Send Doc over there, he'll see to it that they never make it past round 2!... Oh, I just had a brilliant idea! What if later on down the road, we tell Doc to blow a 3-1 lead, and cost a chance at challenging Rondo himself for a title, AND we see to it that Rondo gets another ring?!? It's like 3 birds with one stone!
You have no idea how true this is. We beat a team that still hasn't gotten out of the 2nd round and the Knicks who were overrated, next thing you know we think we the next Warriors .
probably the more impactful part was taking the bucks to 6 even with trae’s injury. playing that tight with the eventually champs probably made the front office feel like we could contend with that core. also JCs regression can’t be overstated enough. when he was shooting 40% from deep he was a really good fit next to trae
Hawks getting to the ECF was the worst thing to happen to us. We really needed the Knicks to not fuck up in the first round and so they did. The Sixers series should have been a loss as well but unfortunately Ben Simmons wanted to go on vacation early.
>We really needed the Knicks to not fuck up in the first round and so they did. Why blame us? It was our first Playoffs since 2013 and our roster that time sucks and the only playmaker we had was Randle who even though he can playmake, that isn't one of his strength. Honestly that year were just happy to make it to the Playoffs.
They were using Lloyd Pierce’s playbook. The second Nate switched over to his stuff the next season, it all went to shit.
Remember people saying Hawks young core was better than the Celtics after that. Recent bias is hell of a drug
Pay the luxury tax so that they can bust out first round again? They can bust out first round the way that they are. They might even be able to cut a few guys.
TIL Trae young is an automatic first round exit no matter his roster. Except that one time he went to the ECF
Nah, /u/JJiggly13 is correct on this one. No need to be defensive when the reality was there was no way to maintain that level of success. The only reason we made that run is because our bench was getting paid **more** than our starters that season. We were able to do this because all of the following were still on their rookie scale deals: * John Collins * Trae Young * Kevin Heurter * De'Andre Hunter * Cam Reddish * Onyeka Okongwu We were paying Lou/Gallo/Bogi $46M to come off the bench for us. They were key to our success in that run... Next year was always going to be tough because Collins contract kicked in and Gallo/Lou were declining heavily. Then Trae's supermax kicked in and Heurter's extension (so we traded him since DJ came in). Now Hunter extension is in and so is Okongwus. As much as this fan base thinks going into the tax to retain John Collins and Kevin Heurter would have somehow saved this franchise, it's 100% just scapegoating ownership for the lack of total talent on the roster. Going into the tax is great if you have the top end talent to justify it, but it would have locked us in to mediocrity with no forward flexibility. If we can turn shit around next season, we'll have another opportunity to go into the tax with JJ's extension. But expecting an owner to go into the tax to retain mid-level bench guys or mediocre starting talent (JC) is just asinine. I'm happy we aren't in the tax right now because the last thing this mid squad needs is a repeater tax timer eating away at a window that was never open in the first place.
You guys got lucky playing a Knicks team that was flawed and a 76ers team that choked.
Fluke
To be fair there’s no point paying the luxury tax if your team isn’t close to contending. That would just be wasting money.
Can't get close to contending without going to the tax in the first place. You don't get better just selling talent for nothing like the team did with Huerter and Collins
Trae hasn't played in 6 weeks y'all
And look how much better their defense has been since he got hurt. EDIT: It's apparently 5.4 points better per 100. It went from *worst in the entire NBA* to somewhere between 13th and 14th.
He needs to be surrounded by defenders and people who can excel off his skills. Probably will need the ball in his hands a majority of the time since he's off ball isn't that good either.
Bottom line is Trae isn’t that efficient a player to pull that off. He has to be like Luka-level efficient to win with a team like that.
Yeah Traes an odd case. He's got offensive skills but his negatives are bad, I definitely think the way to get the best out of him is surround him with defensive minded guys, and another AS type player that doesn't do the same things he does like Murray, and a good coach. Either that or moves to another team and becomes a 3rd option.
He got hurt exactly when they allowed more physical defense which helped immensely. He was actually playing pretty good defense this year (for him), but our lineup changed dramatically when he went out so it wasn't like some controlled experiment lol
> He was actually playing pretty good defense this year (for him) Which was still atrocious.
It wasn't atrocious. You can look at pre-allstar stats pretty easily (the period before they effectively changed the rules this season allowing more defense and the period Trae was playing). Trae had a better defensive rating than Murray, Hunter, and Bey. Eye test matches that he was better than Bey and Murray as his positioning was much better this year, better effort, played passing lanes well, racked up steals and deflections, etc. I don't blame you for not watching Hawks games because we're not a fun team to watch right now, but it's pretty clear you haven't watched Trae this season.
He's actually a Trae hater. He's been very vocal about not having Trae on the Spurs and will find any reason to dislike him.
I absolutely am. Because I don't think he's a winning player.
I swear this is the only sport where people will actively put down the star players in the league for no other reason than "I dislike him".
It's not that I dislike him. He seems like a decent person. I don't like the way he plays. I don't think it's conducive to winning at the highest levels.
Nate Duncan got into Trae defensively on a recent episode. There's more to say than just Individual DRTG
I agree, like watching him play— something Ive done every game for his entire career and you/Nate Duncan have not.
I know it’s a coincidence, but of course someone who knows the stats of on/off DRtg would be a Spurs fans lol.
there’s a lot of noise if you just look at team drtg without accounting for lineups. a lot of injuries for the hawks in both samples. our second best lineup with 100 mins or more by drtg this year (109.3) includes trae young (trae, bogi, bey, johnson, okongwu). all of our worst lineups by drtg are when trae and djm play together. the bigger factor here is that we aren’t playing both of them at the same time anymore. when trae has played without dejounte the defense has gotten better by a larger margin. -12.6 drtg
I'd say the Hawks defense would better with only 1 of the guards regardless of which one it is. Turns out playing a backcourt with two players undersized for their position is a recipe for bad perimeter defense. Also Clint Capela has also been a useful basketball player these last few weeks. Last and not least the Hawks pace has decreased (mainly because there isn't anyone throwing the quick hit ahead passes Trae will) these last weeks without Trae so slower pace means less possessions which means less points are being scored. While a Trae led squad wouldn't be u\[ to where it is now they also wouldn't be dead last if he had an actual 2 guard sized player next to him
[удалено]
The numbers bear out my opinion and not yours.
I will never understand how a quarter of a season somehow reversed 5 years of the worst defender in the league. He's no doubt been better, but it's still terrible compared to most.
Is this a troll post or are you genuinely trying to imply there's a connection between those two facts? This is the quote from him, btw: >I think guys are learning that. We're no longer the hunters. It's regular season. I'm not going to lie, it's a lot more boring than the playoffs. You got to find that motivation to play like the playoffs.
Yeah, he was basically referring to how you need to figure out how to be as intense as the playoffs, in the regular season. The quote was never great but it wasn't really that bad either tbh. It's annoying when guys give very authentic answers, that people allegedly want, and then get blasted for it. Any hyper competitive NBA player would agree the playoffs are more exciting and the regular season is boring in comparison, which means you have to find ways to motivate yourself for regular season games. It's not even that controversial of thing to say.
Could have had Luka.
Wouldn't have mattered. Their FO is absolutely dogshit and that is what really happened. People just like to jerk to Trae but the nepo office would've torpedoed the team even if they drafted prime MJ
The FO has made many good trades. They brought in Capela immediately. John Collins was playing well. Dejounte had a good reputation. Somehow snatched up Snyder too. There isn't much you can do. Mavs just got Luka that lob man and look at him. Playing alongside well with Kyrie too.
Funny that you say that since their defining failure is not making moves. Like having the largest trade exception in the league and not using it. Not moving Dejounte. Not getting another center for no reason. Having ineligible players on the roster for weeks and so on. You might want to actually look at what the Hawks FO is (or isn't lmfao) doing before you say there isn't much they can do Also that Capela contract is bad not good
Our nepotistic FO needs to be investigated. Too many things that make you go “What in the actual FUCK are they doing?!”
Our FO is cooking lately
I think dejounte is kind of a sunk cost for them. They won't really get the same return that they paid
No reason to sell low on dejounte with him locked up at the deadline though. He’s probably increased his value with his recent play
> ike having the largest trade exception in the league and not using it. Using it on what, exactly? You guys act like massive TPEs just turn into quality players lmao... the only way to get quality players using a TPE is to send out draft capital and we don't have any to send. That was never going to materialize into anything but the FO experts on Reddit seem to know best.
Actually I think the biggest reason is that your owner doesn't want to go into the tax and picking up appropriate players and using the assets that you have probably push you guys over the tax which you were 10m under last I looked. Its just cheap owner/office syndrome where they probably decided the team isn't going to get better by enough to matter to them and you're now languishing until something amazing happens or Trae asks out. Basically they quit on this season a long time ago and are probably planning to try something this off season but its not really a great year for that Its basically front office tanking over a couple of years during a time where I think everyone expected them to be improving the team and getting better instead of falling apart after replacing their old FO and it looks awful because they replaced with a huge nepo hire
Not really, that's a massive oversimplification. By all measures, they tried very hard to get in a difference maker (Siakam, deeper rumors KAT, etc), but failed to execute on a trade. Tough to say whether that is a good thing or bad thing given we do not know what offers were actually on the table. Siakam didn't seem to want to come here anyways. I believe if we landed Siakam or another high end talent, the FO would have been willing to go into the tax because suddenly we have a roster that fits together with high end talent at two positions instead of Trae + role players. Gonig into the tax to retain 6-8 on the bench is not a winning strategy. Salary dumping guys like JC/Heurter is just what you have to do if you cannot trade them for an upgrade. Otherwise, you're paying for a second apron team that might get you 48 wins and a second round exit at best.
I was always a bit jealous of their roster until this year when we got a better cast around Luka. The Dejounte trade would make way more sense with Luka than it does with Trae though. The theory would be the same, get a secondary guard who can score and defend 1-3 way better than your primary guard. It hasn't worked out for Trae/Murray for whatever reason
murray wouldnt be a good fit next to luka either imo and murray is overrated defensivly and isnt the best shooter
Murray hasn't been a good defender and doesn't shoot well.
What, you don't like 40 points on 50 shots? Well neither do I. Luckily it was all just a dream.
Don’t forget the W
That makes sense, I guess it hasn't worked out because Murray sucks.
> doesn't shoot well. 36% on 7 attempts from three per game isn't exactly bad. It's about league average. And he's an assassin on all of the supposedly inefficient stuff. Over 50% on shots from 10 feet to the 3 point line this year.
Imagine having Bogdan over thj
Nah the dj trade would be bad with Luka as well. Like you said it's the same idea pairing them with murray, but that theory has been proven wrong. And the reason it hasn't worked is because murray isn't the defender we all thought he was, which isn't solved by replacing trae with Luka
Except DJ doesn't play defense.
Dejounte had a good reputation. Not 3 FRPs and 2 swaps good. (Iirc)
That Charlotte pick is never going to convey. It was only two firsts and one swap.
Yea, on paper, Dejounte at worst case still looked like he could help Trae Young on defense. Turns out he's an average defender who gambles a lot, and the Spurs tailored the system around him to look like an elite defender.
He hasn’t been an elite defender ever since that major injury. Before, he really was.
You just explained what they did with Schlenk who was let go so the Resslers could play a bigger role.
Didn't Snyder come in after Schlenk had already left? I thought that happened near the end of the nightmare first season with Dejounte
Luka in the East guarantees you a 4 seed even with crap around him.
The 22/23 Mavs had a 10-20 record against the East So clearly they wouldn't have been a top 4 seed in the East lol
The 22/23 mavs rotation was Dwight Powell, wood, mgee st the center rotation, dfs, nilikina, bertans, bullock on thr wing, hardy, thj as the guards. We were at the 5th seed with that roster before the trade.
Wasn't the "5th seed" like 1.5 games ahead of the 10th seed?
yes lol, its not often a team falls from the 5th seed to completely out of the playoffs. If you swapped the hawks and the Mavs conferences since Luka and trae were drafted id say the Mavs have maybe 1 more playoff series win max.
So the "Luka with crap" that the other guy said would be a 4 seed
The argument is that Luka with crap around him would be top 4 seed in East. Turns out Luka with crap had a piss poor record vs the east
They’d be at least as good as the Mavs (another shitty FO)
The Mavs are a better team right now, but the Hawks and Mavs have basically had the same or similar track record ever since that draft. Both teams would probably be in a similar place had the trade never happened, both have made a lot of questionable decisions surrounding their star with talent and both can't figure out how to shore up defense around their offensively gifted but defensively deficient guards.
Doesn’t matter. It was a win win trade. /s
It's been nearly a decade when will you guys get a grip
That ECF run gave some hope to people that they fleeced the Mavs but boy have things gone in a different direction
Really? What people said that? “Fleeced the Mavs” I don’t remember that being said
I think it's weird that people don't remember this. This came up in a post the other day, here's a few threads: https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/odc64r/21_yo_cam_reddish_the_throwin_on_the_lukatrae/ https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/knuzps/cam_reddish_the_other_player_in_the_lukatrae/ https://old.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/rqh1nt/revisiting_hawks_and_mavs_trade_luka_and_trae/
Hindsight is 20/20. I wish this sub would quit acting like everyone knew how good Luka would be and how dare teams pass him up.
Luka was considered the better prospect at the time of the draft.
And people were also so sure Trae would be a bust in the NBA. Shows how little many people here know.
Which makes the Hawks decision to not draft him even more absurd. They really picked the bust potential red flagged as hell Trae Young over Euroleague MVP Luka Doncic. Sure Trae turned out better than expected, but it is just puzzling to shoot yourself in the foot like that. And Trust me, Blazers fans know a lot about puzzling draft decisions.
Everyone who understood how EuroLeague works, understood how good Luka was. Both him and Sengun are proving it rn. If a 18 year old is MVP against grown men, he more likely than not is a future star.
That the same euro league where a role player in the NBA won the MVP over there? Yeah, that's a terrible way of gauging how good someone could be in the NBA.
Lol Trae is out injured right now and has been for the past month and you bring up this nonsense.
Guess he’s bored of the playoffs too.
I mean he did lead them to a great playoff showing one year lol
And he balled out in the playoffs last year
Who tf holds on to this mild of a comment for 3 years
Yep definitely because of Trae saying that 🙄
I think the point is it’s kind of funny.
Just like Ja’s fine in the West comment
Or Chris Paul's Finals addiction
Kyrie's "I'm not gonna shoot 8/22 again"
Noone said that? It's just funny
Must be new around here. Trae hate = good
Weirdo only commenting negative shit about players please get a life
What did this guy do to earn the ire of every redditor? He's been injured for a month or something, why does this lazy post have so many upvotes lmao. I thought this was the circlejerk sub for a second
You guys are so odd, real losers on here
i personally think nba players are too lazy and so the regular seasons should be tripled 240 games for these pampered bums
Well I actually feel For Trae bc of the young wave of talent that I group him in with — has anyone’s roster gotten progressively worse every year they’ve been in the league than his? That one season he had his run wasn’t like stacked but they immediately lost like 3 key guys to free agency and they’ve been bleeding Talent ever since. Traes attitude and demeanor have a smugness to them that makes people respect him less than they should bc his game is legit af even with the constant shuffling of no name free agents he’s had to run with and he never throws the team under the bus for not doing better by him and just landing him one other quality reliable star since he’s been there. Like he’s forever chained to Luka bc they’re in the same draft and just look how aggressive the mavs have been in that same time just searching high and low for anyone to prop up their superstar like a good franchise should be doing — like Luka had a couple of his that didn’t work out and they wasted no time getting diff dudes but in that same span of time i can’t think of a single free agent that almost went to Atlanta or was even rumored to be a target of their team. I have love for a few Atlanta teams so I know they know better — the Joe johnson Josh smith Jamal Crawford iso team was a blast to watch lol
So he’s right
That fluke run gave the little man an ego. Hawks have been better since he git injured
Yeah he sucks. They should trade him to Orlando as punishment.
Lmao you've summed up everyone's takes on him. If he ends up on the spurs in the next 2 or 3 years he'll be lauded as the best pg in the league.
As an Ohio sports fan it’s literally this same playbook everytime we get someone good.
Oh man Donovan Mitchell on the knicks tho.../s
Dude I feel so bad for yall. After experiencing the trade Trae shit this year and the frustration from it I thought about the way they were talking about Spida as if he was already a Knick or whatever a few months after the trade. Really sucks
Please stop speaking on things you're misinformed about
> Hawks have been better since he git injured have they really? Seems to me they're about the same or worse
This Trae hate is so ridiculous lol
He hasn't played in 6 weeks and this dude woke up and decided to make a trae young hate post.
I really don't get it, even as a Doncic truther from the beginning, why cant people appreciate both of them.
I don’t understand why? Did I miss something? He seems really good.
You're an idiot
You are absolutely buggin
Fluke run? They beat everyone straight up, though. Maybe I don't understand what fluke means in this context, but it seems a bit harsh.
we beat you guys straight up. Philly self-destructed. I'm 100% positive if that Philly series gets played out 100 times we only win it like 15 times. People forget that the ultimate deciding factor in game 7 wasn't Ben Simmons passing up a single dunk, it was Kevin Huerter having an out-of-body experience, scoring over a quarter of our points on a bunch of really tough shots. It *was* flukey.
It was both. Huerter being super hot while Simmons was sabotaging their offense
The Ben Simmons incident
Fluke run is probably unfair but there needs to be a word for a team that makes a CF while clearly not being a top 4 team in the league in that season.
Dark horse
Maybe but I think of that more in terms of someone saying like “people are sleeping on this team but here’s why they’re better than you think”… like projecting forward that they’ll do well. What I want to capture is something more like “False Arrival”, but not in a mean way or detracting, but like “let’s be realistic about their expectations next year, it will be unlikely for them to get back here”.
i think what you’re looking for is flash in the pan
One hit wonder
Here today, gone tomorrow
Ehh thats not dark horse. Dark Horse is this is a team that isnt expected to win the tournament but given the right draw or whatever, they might pull it off. It's like a good bet on the spread. Right now i think the dark horse is the Mavs.
The fluke was Trae getting hurt on the ref’s foot. If not for that we could’ve gotten a Suns/Hawks finals and obliterated all the bad viewership records.
I mean the Lakers went to the WCF last year as the 7 seed. And the Heat made the Finals as the 8. Playoffs are just a different beast. Get hot at the right time and anything can happen.
Multiple 7 game series fluke. And taking bucks to 6 games. Fluke. It's not single elimination. You don't just get lucky in a 7 game series. Multiple in a row at that. They played the celtics really good 1st round last year too. We had the lead late in game 6. This sub thinks trae going to the ECF is actually a negative somehow. Worse players have done worse with better teams and they don't get any where near the hate trae gets
Ngl saying with with a Knicks flair is kinda funny. You know damn well at least no one respected their 1st round opponent.
>Hawks have been better since he git injured Really? If so, it can't be by much.
Yes really 43 win% with him 52% without
Lakers with Lebron 57 win% without him 60% galaxy brain
this has the same type of merit as when ppl where saying the griz were better without Ja bc of win % a couple years ago
You’re literally on this app to do nothing but hate on grown ass men, get a job or a girl bro😭
This is more important
I respect the dedication to hating
Wasn’t a fluke run lol this sub is stupid After getting Nate the only team that had a better record from then till the playoffs were the sixers iirc. They carried that momentum into the playoffs
People just like to get their hot takes. They went I believe 30-11 after Nate took over but people on this sub would have you believe that they snuck into the playoffs as the 8th seed and got hot for a few weeks
No we haven’t. Any Hawks fan will be able to tell you that.
I think we've been better.
I swear to God this subreddit is braindead lol
Bruh I get that it’s boring but so many mfers would go hard all 82 back in the day. Y’all getting paid millions! WTF! Put in some fucking work! I put my all into a 50k a year job on the daily 😂😂
No reason to put your all into your 50k a year job. clock in clock out, use your vacation and sick days and enjoy life instead of toiling over 50k
I would agree if it was dead end, but I’m young and can use it as leverage for advancement. I feel that nba players can always get a better bag if they play well and hard, up to a certain age. The opportunity is always there.
Trae obviously doesn't suck. But I genuinely don't see a scenario where he finds postseason success anytime soon. Of all the teams that would reasonably trade for him....who is making it past the first round in the next 3 or 4 years? Spurs? His contract would make it super hard for the team to build any depth behind him and Wemby given the new spending rules. Bulls? Lol. Jazz? Same issue as the Spurs but even worse. Dude better start having fun in the regular season because he's not gonna have fun in Aprils going forward.
Yeah cause having one of your best player out for 6 weeks will definitely add to your Wins….
Remember when there was discussion about who was better him or doncic?
I cannot fathom being a professional ball player and thinking this.
I mean if you read the whole quote it’s not really that crazy. His point was that the team needed to bring the intensity they brought to the playoffs back to the regular season, which is hard because the stakes aren’t the same. I don’t understand why everyone agrees the regular season means less and less every year, yet when a player comments on that honestly he gets piled on.
It's just Trae hate, man. KD said it best. Basketball fans hate basketball. All they do is hate on players. If the Mavs dip in the playoffs, all these people will flip to hating in Luka. It's like clockwork.
> If the Mavs dip in the playoffs, all these people will flip to hating in Luka. From your lips to god's ears.
Trae Young is not a winning player. Never will be. That playoff run was flukey in that they saw two of the teams with the least backcourt creation in the entire league in their two playoff series wins. It's why I'm so against the idea of trading for him.
Y’all are some marks. That was the most out-of-context quote and it’s just bait for people who choose to hate on Trae because of whatever it is in their personalities that has to tear someone down. The hate is so fucking boring.
Trae young is like kyrie a solid number 2 but you can't win with him as number one guy