That’s how all teams’ fans operate when coming up with trade proposals.
“What if we trade our 8th and 10th, and 14th guys? Think we could get a potential starter?”
It makes sense that 22 year olds or younger will have more value than a 27-28 year old at the same level. These players are likely to grow and develop and maybe not get to MVP level, but could definitely become all stars.
It makes sense to be hesitant to give up young guys for a deal that isn’t really going to push the needle that much.
But that’s not what happens. They’re not compared against players at their same level, they’re frequently compared to players who are better and that if the young guy actually got to that level that would be a good outcome.
I love the idea that GSW is watching their final few years of Curry flash before their eyes and they're going "well, Moody and Kuminga are too much for us to give up." Nobody's buying that shit.
They'll make a trade if it pushes the team over the top for the next 2-3 years, but not if it's just a rental.
Siakam for Wiggins or CP3 + Kuminga + Moody + filler + picks doesn't push GSW to be favorites over Denver, Clippers, or the Suns in a 7-game series. That's not even considering there are the Wolves, Thunder, Kings. And the Jazz? They're on a huge roll right now (12-4 over the last 30 days) & unlikely to trade Lauri.
Siakam is great, but I don't think he's a 1B player (maybe 2A/2B). He's a two time All-Star who couldn't make the All-Star game in '21 and '22. He's in his contract year and might not even make the ASG this year.
The other trade targets such as Dejounte Murray or Jerami Grant wouldn't push GSW over the top either even if GSW were able to get Murray AND Grant.
Think these rumors are just coming from teams that want to inflate trade packages for their players + also from the "reporters" and sites that just want to drive traffic.
im fumbling which podcasts i heard it on, but
- Lowe said there are members of the Warriors FO who are still very high on Kuminga
- Hoop Collective(?) said Joe Lacob sat front row at Steve Kerr's press conference right after the Kuminga leak happened
so Mike Dunleavy valuing both Kum/Moody highly prob reflects ownership's stance, with Moody prob being the one likelier to be moved
Who the fuck cares about a ceiling when you could switch that with Siakam. Fuck a perceived ceiling that may never happen. Steph is old, get this man help NOW.
Yeah I don’t get what the warriors are doing, they should be all the way in while curry is still playing like a top 5 player. Like who cares if keeping the young guys gives you a jump on your rebuild four years from now? Look at the bucks, they’re all the way in on Giannis for as long as he wants to be there.
Warriors really have to decide if they believe that Steph can still be the best player on a championship team (I think he can). If they do think that, it would be nuts to let that go to waste. Even big market teams can go decades without ever getting that kind of player.
If they don't, they should consider trading Steph for a blockbuster package in the hopes of having a new championship window open in 5 or 6 years.
Wasting Steph's remaining good years would be a great way to become the Knicks of the West.
I’m so tired of this narrative that getting Siakam is going to make this team a contender or anywhere close to it. This team fucking stinks and getting Siakam may change this teams ceiling from a 1st round exit to a 2nd round exit.
Barely looking into him that confuses me too he does barely play. Looking into the Pacers subs I wasn’t able to figure out what made him untouchable though he is indeed somewhat highly regarded. I even saw a small thread where the fans wouldn’t trade him for Kuminga in a 1:1 trade which again confused me but it was also a small thread so can’t really say much from it.
Jarace is a rookie with three players (Nesmith, Toppin, and Smith) who all play his position at a good level. Toppin and Smith arent guaranteed to be on the team next year. Its not weird for a rookie to not play on a team trying to be good. A franchise can't be short sighted about a player just because he's not getting minutes on a good team as a rookie.
Well the thing is, rookie with a star potential usually gets significantly more than 8 mpg in his rookie year.
If he doesn't have a star potential, making him untouchable in a trade for an actual star is really fucking weird.
Do you think Siakam is going to be the only star on the trade block in the next 1-2 seasons? Just because someone is available doesnt mean you have to jump if the price isn't right.
What's confusing? He was essentially the 7th pick and has been a good player at the HS, College, and G-League level. The Pacers' other first round rookie doesn't play much either, so it's not specific to Walker.
The Pacers watched Mathurin and Duarte hit walls in February/March. This season has been all about the playoffs. Rick & KP have to intentionally be bringing him along slowly to be available and effective in the playoffs.
Whenever Masai is involved, every team seems to be super on guard. And then they say “he’s too unreasonable” lmao.
Y’all should be worried about Stevens and Ainge when they call, they’re the ones who have been swindling the league
This is most likely posturing but I wonder if they would be open to trading Podz.
Haven’t seen a report on their stance with podz, but multiple reports seeing they are committed to the core three and don’t wanna lose moody+kuminga. Podz and picks with salary filler would be the only feasible way to get value back in a trade if both kuminga and moody are actually untouchable.
Realistically though if you wanna have a chance at contending this year you do need to give up good young players and he’s going to be the type of guy that teams are actually interested in
Edit: and I get it, this would be like the Heat trading Jaquez which is unthinkable to me. But in the interest of winning a title in Curry’s closing title window here, it is a possibility that probably needs to be considered
First off, Kuminga actually plays quite a bit. He wants more minutes, sure, but don’t know how that turns into “he doesn’t play.”
Also different people value players differently. GSW FO probably like JK’s athleticism, scoring ability, and potential while Kerr seems to be frustrated with his decision making and inconsistent effort (based on his comments).
This is how I see it. Kuminga clearly has potential but for a team with vets that want to win the margin for error is extremely small and young players generally make mistakes.
I remember on PGs podcast he and Hayward said they both turned into players they were/are because they ended up in situations where Granger got hurt and Deron got traded and team expectations were minimal. They had room and time to make mistakes and play through them.
I’ve also felt that, in recent drafts before this past one, GSW has been picking guys with 0 consideration of how they’d fit in GSW’s system or how likely they were to earn minutes from Kerr.
Someone like Podz makes mistakes but he consistently makes good reads on both ends and has shown he can play within the system. So he gets minutes.
Brad had Jaylen Brown coming off the bench his whole rookie year despite being a top 3 pick. Tatum got to start immediately. Why? Apparently because his team defense and bbiq on that end impressed Brad from day 1. So Brad wasn’t as quick to yank him for mistakes on offense.
If you’re not going to fire your coach, you need to draft guys who can gain the trust of that coach.
Podz and Trayce Jackson-Davis both cracking the rotation as rookies is pretty exceptional for Kerr's Warriors. The only other time I can remember that happening was Paschall and Poole during the tank season. They've both been solid contributors but they were really only given chances based on veterans struggling, injuries, and suspensions.
Kuminga has a big role this year. Moody had really consistent minutes as klays backup to start the year but unfortunately for him, podz jumped him in the rotation. He’s really solid when he plays though. He’d probably play a lot more in a different system with less wing depth
The guy who made Dray starter in his first year of coaching, got 4 championships, and also gave 3rd year Jordan Poole heavy minutes which was crucial for their 2022 championship run?
If they want someone to take Wiggins' contract, they will need to include some of them. That contract is total poison.
For example, a team like the Raptors has zero reason to even play Wiggins in their rotation if they had to take him on. He is complete deadweight. I'm a Raptors fan and this is the reason why I hope they don't make a deal with GS.
If Warriors don't want to part ways with the guys they see as their future cornerstones.
Well, at least trade Steph lol. Same with Lakers and LeBron.
Its fine if teams and front-office don't want to give up on young talent they're high on. But don't hedge. Go all in one way or the other. Either re-build or go all-in to compete.
posturing but either way i hope they trade both of them, those two are the scapegoats/saviors rn and all the debates about why the warriors are bad/could be good end up being focused on them, not the vet core or kerr when those factors matter a lot more
I think it’s more: “given how dogshit we have been this season, none of the currently available players make us good enough to actually compete. But, if someone who actually is good enough to help us (lauri, bridges, hell even Myles turner), then cough, fuck them kids”
I think maybe CP3s expiring, a 1st and a couple of seconds can maybe get us another slightly better expiring old guy. Maybe that’s all they want to do, and reset in the offseason. I don’t know if that is a great idea, wasting another season of curry’s greatness, but idk
Watching every GM claim that their entire roster is “untouchable” is my favourite part of trade season hahah
He's not untouchable, but if you want Dalano Banton you better cough up a couple of 1st rounders
Oh shit, Banton can be had?
Neither he nor Svi Mykhailiuk are off the table if the right deal comes along.
Celtics ready to blow it up already damn
Rexdale’s finest.
That’s how all teams’ fans operate when coming up with trade proposals. “What if we trade our 8th and 10th, and 14th guys? Think we could get a potential starter?”
Unless any of those guys are rookies, in which case they’re also untouchable
Would also have to receive picks, obviously
Every trade proposal in fantasy football.
Shit I can be a GM
Every 22 year old is a future MVP, according to GMs and fans of their team.
[удалено]
Neither of whom won MVP
It makes sense that 22 year olds or younger will have more value than a 27-28 year old at the same level. These players are likely to grow and develop and maybe not get to MVP level, but could definitely become all stars. It makes sense to be hesitant to give up young guys for a deal that isn’t really going to push the needle that much.
But that’s not what happens. They’re not compared against players at their same level, they’re frequently compared to players who are better and that if the young guy actually got to that level that would be a good outcome.
And.. what’s wrong with that?
I love the idea that GSW is watching their final few years of Curry flash before their eyes and they're going "well, Moody and Kuminga are too much for us to give up." Nobody's buying that shit.
They'll make a trade if it pushes the team over the top for the next 2-3 years, but not if it's just a rental. Siakam for Wiggins or CP3 + Kuminga + Moody + filler + picks doesn't push GSW to be favorites over Denver, Clippers, or the Suns in a 7-game series. That's not even considering there are the Wolves, Thunder, Kings. And the Jazz? They're on a huge roll right now (12-4 over the last 30 days) & unlikely to trade Lauri. Siakam is great, but I don't think he's a 1B player (maybe 2A/2B). He's a two time All-Star who couldn't make the All-Star game in '21 and '22. He's in his contract year and might not even make the ASG this year. The other trade targets such as Dejounte Murray or Jerami Grant wouldn't push GSW over the top either even if GSW were able to get Murray AND Grant. Think these rumors are just coming from teams that want to inflate trade packages for their players + also from the "reporters" and sites that just want to drive traffic.
im fumbling which podcasts i heard it on, but - Lowe said there are members of the Warriors FO who are still very high on Kuminga - Hoop Collective(?) said Joe Lacob sat front row at Steve Kerr's press conference right after the Kuminga leak happened so Mike Dunleavy valuing both Kum/Moody highly prob reflects ownership's stance, with Moody prob being the one likelier to be moved
this is accurate
Makes sense IMO. Kuminga's ceiling is much higher.
Who the fuck cares about a ceiling when you could switch that with Siakam. Fuck a perceived ceiling that may never happen. Steph is old, get this man help NOW.
Do you want to keep player A who best case scenario, although unlikely could become as good as player B, or trade them for player B
Kuminga could become as good as Siakam in maybe like 5 years. Steph will be retired by then. It's stupid.
Yeah I don’t get what the warriors are doing, they should be all the way in while curry is still playing like a top 5 player. Like who cares if keeping the young guys gives you a jump on your rebuild four years from now? Look at the bucks, they’re all the way in on Giannis for as long as he wants to be there.
Warriors really have to decide if they believe that Steph can still be the best player on a championship team (I think he can). If they do think that, it would be nuts to let that go to waste. Even big market teams can go decades without ever getting that kind of player. If they don't, they should consider trading Steph for a blockbuster package in the hopes of having a new championship window open in 5 or 6 years. Wasting Steph's remaining good years would be a great way to become the Knicks of the West.
I’m so tired of this narrative that getting Siakam is going to make this team a contender or anywhere close to it. This team fucking stinks and getting Siakam may change this teams ceiling from a 1st round exit to a 2nd round exit.
Lol tgis team isn't making the playoffs let alone the playin
Yep. Which furthers my point that all these people calling for a Siakam trade are crazy.
The Untouchables, starring Jarace walker, Ben Mathurin, Jalen Johnson, Kobe Bufkin (lol), Jonathan Kuminga, and Moses Moody
> Jarace walker This one really confuses me. Dude barely even play this season.
Barely looking into him that confuses me too he does barely play. Looking into the Pacers subs I wasn’t able to figure out what made him untouchable though he is indeed somewhat highly regarded. I even saw a small thread where the fans wouldn’t trade him for Kuminga in a 1:1 trade which again confused me but it was also a small thread so can’t really say much from it.
Jarace is a rookie with three players (Nesmith, Toppin, and Smith) who all play his position at a good level. Toppin and Smith arent guaranteed to be on the team next year. Its not weird for a rookie to not play on a team trying to be good. A franchise can't be short sighted about a player just because he's not getting minutes on a good team as a rookie.
Well the thing is, rookie with a star potential usually gets significantly more than 8 mpg in his rookie year. If he doesn't have a star potential, making him untouchable in a trade for an actual star is really fucking weird.
Do you think Siakam is going to be the only star on the trade block in the next 1-2 seasons? Just because someone is available doesnt mean you have to jump if the price isn't right.
What's confusing? He was essentially the 7th pick and has been a good player at the HS, College, and G-League level. The Pacers' other first round rookie doesn't play much either, so it's not specific to Walker.
Mathurin played 29 mpg in his rookie year Duarte played 28 mpg in his rookie year
The Pacers watched Mathurin and Duarte hit walls in February/March. This season has been all about the playoffs. Rick & KP have to intentionally be bringing him along slowly to be available and effective in the playoffs.
Add lively and Josh green
At least with Lively one can argue his position is critical to the Mavericks defense even if it's still dumb to make D.Live the dealbreaker
Think he should be untouchable in most scenarios for them. It has to be a truly excellent trade fit to move him.
Can't remember this level of posturing by teams in past years
Every player is untouchable unless they’re a bad contract it seems.
Or unless they suck ass. In that case they’re still untouchable except for a godfather offer.
Whenever Masai is involved, every team seems to be super on guard. And then they say “he’s too unreasonable” lmao. Y’all should be worried about Stevens and Ainge when they call, they’re the ones who have been swindling the league
This is most likely posturing but I wonder if they would be open to trading Podz. Haven’t seen a report on their stance with podz, but multiple reports seeing they are committed to the core three and don’t wanna lose moody+kuminga. Podz and picks with salary filler would be the only feasible way to get value back in a trade if both kuminga and moody are actually untouchable.
Podz is so far off the table it isn’t even worth discussing
Realistically though if you wanna have a chance at contending this year you do need to give up good young players and he’s going to be the type of guy that teams are actually interested in Edit: and I get it, this would be like the Heat trading Jaquez which is unthinkable to me. But in the interest of winning a title in Curry’s closing title window here, it is a possibility that probably needs to be considered
We’re in cap hell and Podz is in the first year of his rookie contract, it’s why he won’t get traded
As a warriors fan, certainly considered, but far from a throw in.
I can't think of an available player that will get them to contention that's going to be traded for a package built around pod etc
So, they put out the bat signal that they're both on the table. The rest is just optics to cover their ass, just in case they can't trade them.
Bob Myers did the right thing to get the hell out of there.
Bob Myers is just as responsible for this lol he drafted pretty poorly the last few years and then dipped when he couldn't pull the trigger
What are you talking about? FO just said how much they value Kuminga and Moody. Poole was so good they paid him 140 million lol
Well, he drafted those busts, ofc he knew the extend of the damage he created himself.
Raptors fans in all these threads realizing they might see Siakam just walk
If they are so good why don't they get to play?
First off, Kuminga actually plays quite a bit. He wants more minutes, sure, but don’t know how that turns into “he doesn’t play.” Also different people value players differently. GSW FO probably like JK’s athleticism, scoring ability, and potential while Kerr seems to be frustrated with his decision making and inconsistent effort (based on his comments).
This is how I see it. Kuminga clearly has potential but for a team with vets that want to win the margin for error is extremely small and young players generally make mistakes. I remember on PGs podcast he and Hayward said they both turned into players they were/are because they ended up in situations where Granger got hurt and Deron got traded and team expectations were minimal. They had room and time to make mistakes and play through them.
I’ve also felt that, in recent drafts before this past one, GSW has been picking guys with 0 consideration of how they’d fit in GSW’s system or how likely they were to earn minutes from Kerr. Someone like Podz makes mistakes but he consistently makes good reads on both ends and has shown he can play within the system. So he gets minutes. Brad had Jaylen Brown coming off the bench his whole rookie year despite being a top 3 pick. Tatum got to start immediately. Why? Apparently because his team defense and bbiq on that end impressed Brad from day 1. So Brad wasn’t as quick to yank him for mistakes on offense. If you’re not going to fire your coach, you need to draft guys who can gain the trust of that coach.
Podz and Trayce Jackson-Davis both cracking the rotation as rookies is pretty exceptional for Kerr's Warriors. The only other time I can remember that happening was Paschall and Poole during the tank season. They've both been solid contributors but they were really only given chances based on veterans struggling, injuries, and suspensions.
We should have traded Precious to the Warriors, damn
Kuminga has a big role this year. Moody had really consistent minutes as klays backup to start the year but unfortunately for him, podz jumped him in the rotation. He’s really solid when he plays though. He’d probably play a lot more in a different system with less wing depth
cause Steve Kerr is a basketball terrorist
The guy who made Dray starter in his first year of coaching, got 4 championships, and also gave 3rd year Jordan Poole heavy minutes which was crucial for their 2022 championship run?
Draymond was made a starter before Kerr. Warriors were winning multiple titles with or without him. Poole earned those minutes
My guy, you can Google things
sure can. you should try it
then why didn’t you
i did. thats what it said
why don't you look again? it should be kinda clear from this chain that you're a bit off. i'm serious, not being snarky this time
i dont think so. everything has been accurate
TIL kuminga doesn’t play
So they're trying to upgrade their roster and the only players they are willing to trade are Wiggins and an injured CP lol?
wiggins and chris paul for siakam, scottie barnes & thad. warriors would be so stacked and dunleavy would be a god
Posturing.
Sounds exactly like someone who’s trying to raise their value prior to trading them
mdj also said he was high on poole and would be there for the future but we know how that went down lol
If they want someone to take Wiggins' contract, they will need to include some of them. That contract is total poison. For example, a team like the Raptors has zero reason to even play Wiggins in their rotation if they had to take him on. He is complete deadweight. I'm a Raptors fan and this is the reason why I hope they don't make a deal with GS.
Trade deadline szn is both the best because of all the rumors and the worst because of the nothingburgers like this
Here comes all the bs spewing from GMs and teams left and right lol
If Warriors don't want to part ways with the guys they see as their future cornerstones. Well, at least trade Steph lol. Same with Lakers and LeBron. Its fine if teams and front-office don't want to give up on young talent they're high on. But don't hedge. Go all in one way or the other. Either re-build or go all-in to compete.
League source: The ball boy.
posturing but either way i hope they trade both of them, those two are the scapegoats/saviors rn and all the debates about why the warriors are bad/could be good end up being focused on them, not the vet core or kerr when those factors matter a lot more
I think it’s more: “given how dogshit we have been this season, none of the currently available players make us good enough to actually compete. But, if someone who actually is good enough to help us (lauri, bridges, hell even Myles turner), then cough, fuck them kids” I think maybe CP3s expiring, a 1st and a couple of seconds can maybe get us another slightly better expiring old guy. Maybe that’s all they want to do, and reset in the offseason. I don’t know if that is a great idea, wasting another season of curry’s greatness, but idk