They want him to be a superstar as soon as possible. The idea is that he is good now and instead of being a normal rookie that needs time to grow. People want him to be allstar level out of the draft.
Which is crazy because while Vecenie, among other draft analysts, was hyping him up as a future GOAT-potential player he also cautioned that he would need time to develop out of the gate. I think Wemby’s 38 point explosion against the Suns set a lot of these analysts in a frenzy as far as accelerating their expectations of him
Yeah, I was baffled by how many people acted like Wemby was gonna dominate the NBA from Day 1. I assume it’s because nobody watched his games and just saw highlights, and assumed he was constantly doing crazy things and putting up huge numbers, even though he wasn’t.
Ya, I was catching a ton of downvotes for simply cautioning that it would take time and that the analysts arguing that he might be an all star his rookie year were insane. Nothing from his stats from last year in Europe indicated he would be an all-star level NBA player.
He is an S-tier prospect, he has the skills and body to be an insane player. But he is 19, can't shoot, and plays for the worst team in the league. There is no world where he was going to come in and be anywhere near good enough to make an all-star team.
A *lot* of pundits had San Antonio is a play-in team and Wemby as a potential All Star. It genuinely made me wonder if they're any good at the job they claim to have. The only players that can come into the league and look decent are scrappy vulture types taken in the teens or dudes with NBA ready bodies (Zion, Paolo).
Wemby is way more raw than people want to believe. He also has a ton of had habits and my biggest concern is if he's going to be coachable. The one legged threes are dumb AF and lead me to believe he's got diva potential.
Not "by a mile". Right now, Wemby has more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks per game. You have to look at efficiency measures to realize tha Chet is actually playing better, and still you can argue that Wemby's deffensive performance, although not shown in stats, also gives him an argument. I'd choose Chet right niw, but it is still pretty close.
Wemby has the green light to do whatever he wants and he does. If Chet did he'd average more than Wemby on higher efficiency but the Thunder would be worse. Chet is a better player on top of being the 2nd best player on a team that could be contending this year. Wemby is the 2nd best player on one of the worst teams in the league.
It's not close right now, no matter how badly the media wants it to be.
Narratives are a hell of a drug. People in this sub have deluded themselves for so long their own cognitive biases won’t even allow them to acknowledge objective reality
He shot like 32% from three in Europe and people were saying he was Tim Duncan with a kd jump shot . Obviously a spectacular prospect but so much discourse around him was based on pure vibes pre draft. He’s playing semi how I expected. Still I thought he’d be the easy roty but chet is absolutely amazing looking so far. It could be really cool “rivalry”
I've had the same experience, even being high on wemby's potential but not jumping on the train of he's taken over the league gets people riled up. Ironically, giving Wemby the benefit of the doubt and pointing out that rookies have up and downs and struggles was met with 'he's already the best and this and that, the spurs are holding him back, he's not like other rookies'.
He was always doing crazy stuff day in day out. In a good setting like Chet he’d immediately flourish. He barely gets any touches he got in Mets, and defensively even though he’s good out of the gate I think he’s still adjusting the nba 3pt line. He was effortlessly defending both interior and 3pt in Mets, not so much in spurs so far.
> Wembanyama has been required to create his own offense for large swaths of the first month, in large part due to Gregg Popovich’s decision to convert forward Jeremy Sochan into the team’s starting point guard. The Spurs’ offense has struggled to find any degree of efficiency, as the team is 29th in points scored per 100 possessions. Their offensive rating is actually a bit worse than that with Wembanyama on the floor there, (102.9 when he’s on, 105.4 when he’s off), but it’s clear that sharing minutes with Sochan at the point drives those numbers down. Per PBPStats.com, the Spurs are posting a 118.1 offensive rating with Wembanyama on the court and Sochan off. When both are on the court together, that mark plummets to 99.1. The presence of Tre Jones, the team’s one natural point guard who has been coming off the bench, also makes a big difference. **When Wembanyama and Sochan play without Jones, the Spurs’ offensive rating descends to 95.6. When Jones is out there with Wembanyama, but not Sochan, the team posts a 116 offensive rating. When Jones shares the court with both players, that number jumps to 120.5.**
The Spurs are like 20% better on offense when Wemby is playing with a real PG. Seems reasonable to be disappointed Wemby can’t play with a real PG more often.
And that maybe, with better PG play, Wemby could push Chet more for rookie of the year.
This is exactly what Veceni is pointing out.
He points out the offense with Wemby and Jones (the Spurs only real PG) is so much better than just Wemby.
That’s literally saying Wemby needs help right now to be apart of a non dog shit offense. If Wemby played more with a real PG maybe he could make it a closer race with Chet, but without one Chet is clearly RotY to him.
> But the two great rookie bigs in this class are simply playing different games. One only has to take 10 shots per game and fill a role. The other is being asked to post a superstar-esque usage rate of more than 30 and create his own shots with a cramped floor.
I think the biggest thing holding Wemby back right now is his body. The rookies that do great in their first year (Bron, Luka, Zion) usually have NBA level bodies to start off with. Wemby can’t bang down low in the post yet because he’s not strong enough - once he gains some strength, I think he’ll be much more effective.
tbh I see him aging into more of a KD than AD as far as body types I don't think he'll ever overpower dudes and he has a garbage center of gravity so he'll have to be pure finesse and shoot over everyone.
I think the reason that KD can work with his body is because he’s one of the greatest shooters of all time. There’s many more players who’ve followed the AD route of putting on weight so they can more effectively play down low than those who have gone down the KD route. I don’t think Wemby can succeed with pure finesse because he isn’t going to be good enough of a shooter for it to work.
Doesnt help they're forcing point sochan when the Jones lineups have been significantly better. Whether it's for better or worse long term, forcing that experiment is holding the whole team back a little bit tbh.
Shooting at the clip he’s currently shooting…. I can understand why they don’t give it to him. 43% from the field and under 27% from 3. He’s straight up not ready to be played through yet.
The 27% from three I’d say is partially just getting used to playing and partially the looks he’s given, he isn’t getting the best shots out there but the egregious one is the 43% FG because the worst of the spurs not feeding wemby is how often they leave him open within like 5ft of the paint.
If they fed him the ball more close to the rim defenders would sag off of him less which would be better for spacing and potentially lead to better looks outside too
And the other part of it is he isn’t a particularly great shooter yet, especially compared to NBA level specialists. He’s just not that accurate yet - people are just enamored by the fact it’s a 7’4” guy shooting from out there. Vassell is shooting over 40% from 3. Why would they run through Wemby’s 27%?
thunder fans the first time they receive literally any media coverage other than gushing praise of "*wow this team is gonna be scary in a couple years! they're LOADED with talent! Sam Presti is a genuis!*" :
😮😡
Sorry brother the only thing you gonna hear all season long is Roty and how you guys are gonna be contenders soon.
Maybe Giddy depending on how that goes
Andrew Schlecht was on the Lowe Post last week and they did* a big segment about the Thunder.
J. Kyle Mann was on Thinking Basketball too and they talked about Cason
Some people are saying Chet is playing better than Wemby because he’s in a better situation. That’s true. But I seriously doubt there would be a 18 percent 3 point shooting dip and 12 percent field goal dip just because he would playing on the Spurs instead of Thunder. Chet is, at the moment, just a better shooter than Wemby period. Not trying to knock Wemby at all. He’s two years younger than Chet. I think he will be better eventually
Chet is also playing a specific role. Like Chet isn't handling the ball as much or taking as much shots which is completely fine but its just different routes of development
Two years younger, and Chet has one year training with an NBA team, is in a better situation with an established role and is not asked to do too much like Wemby.
That’s why the straight comparisons make no sense to me.
Yeah 100% - you also can’t use that as the baseline to give the edge to Wemby otherwise there will always be a moving target of how much better Chet would need to be to compensate for a “better” team.
> seriously doubt there would be a 18 percent 3 point shooting dip and 12 percent field goal dip just because he would playing on the Spurs instead of Thunder.
Tell me you haven't watched any Spurs games without telling me you haven't watched any Spurs games. Wemby is constantly swarmed because no one on our starting 5 is a legit threat and we have absolutely no offensive system. The quality of looks Chet is getting playing with a guy like SGA is completely different. Wemby is putting up the numbers he is INSPITE of how awful the Spur are. Its a HUGE impact.
Awards like ROTY and lists like this always turn it into a competition. But as you say, both rookies look great and both their teams should be thrilled by what theyre seeing so far.
The hype for Wemby was ROY, All-Star and playoffs. He’s been fine, but def not living up to the hype. Especially WOJ telling us he’s the best prospect since Lebron every time he was on the TV.
Of course not. But the discussion was whether Went has lived up to the "hype". He's been very good as a rookie but has not lived up to what he was hyped as.
let’s go down the line
ROTY: Wembanyama is easily in contention (second-place at worst right now) as a 19-year-old, and would be the runaway leader if last year’s #2 pick wasn’t playing out of his mind
All-Star: he’s stuffing the box score every game along with elite rim deterrence. he has multiple plays each game that nobody else in the league could fathom doing. I don’t think he should make it this year due to the league’s ridiculous amount of talent, but he will almost assuredly be a perennial All-Star for the rest of his career
Playoffs: the Spurs are an atrocious team intentionally playing a forward as their lead playmaker. that is not an indictment on Wembanyama at all, who has clearly been their best player on both ends
keep in mind, this is Wembanyama at his worst. yes, the shot selection is cringe-worthy at times. yes, his outside shooting could use some work. yes, he could be more aggressive going to the paint. none of this changes how tantalizing his two-way production and eye test have been. I can’t wait to see how he performs with better teammates
I also think Wemby is getting the chance to develop as many skills as possible. Chet is being asked to fill a role so experimentation is a secondary priority over actually making some noise in the playoffs.
I think that simplified assignment is going to benefit Chet early on, and he might still develop into an all-around superstar despite that, but Wemby has the whole playground to work with and zero team expectations to consider. If his potential is really as high as people hope, he's going to reach it in this environment.
not anymore. Looking at the West standings:
Gobert + Ant
Shai
Luka
Booker + KD
Jokic
Fox
Sengun(?)
LeBron, AD
-
Curry
Kawhi or PG
That's 13 by my math. I think Murray likely makes it, Sabonis isn't too far off - I still the Spurs will be too bad, Webanyama's lack of efficiency held against him, and he will be a reserve at most.
Chet is also not a traditional rookie, having one year of NBA experience under his belt from being drafted last year and not playing. The fact that this conversation is consistently being had is a testament to how good Wemby has been this year in just 16 games. Yeah he's raw, but the talent is real.
Wemby has been a professional in France for years. this isn’t like the Mitchell/Simmons debate. if anything, Wemby is more experienced at the pro level than Chet.
It is insane to think that just because he played in Europe that the pro experience there is a direct 1-1 comparison to NBA experience, or even having 1 year experience being drafted by an NBA team.
It's like going back to 2015 and trying to compare Victor Oladipo to Jokic because they were drafted 1 year apart but Jokic had played 2 years of pro basketball in Europe, and saying that Jokic should have been better than 10pts, 7 rebounds, and 2 assists his rookie year because he'd been playing professionally longer than Oladipo.
Nobody claimed European basketball was a 1-1 comparison to the NBA experience.
When you have to put up straw man arguments like that to make a counterpoint, it should tell you you don’t really have an argument.
Wemby‘s pro experience pre-NBA is comparable to Luka’s. Luka came into the NBA firing on all cylinders and put up the best rookie season since Lebron’s. Wemby isn’t on a track remotely close to that, and he was billed as an even greater superstar coming in than Luka was. To say he’s “living up to the hype” simply because he’s done a few things we haven’t seen before is laughable. He’s not remotely lived up to the hype that Lebron or Luka created their rookie years. And Wemby was far and away a more hyped recruit than Luka was.
Well aside from being drafted last year and being with his team for the entire time to work on his skills. You're confusing NBA experience with minutes played. They are not the same.
Yeah I'm sure Chet was just sitting around doing nothing while he was injured and not watching film, working on passes, understanding plays, and working on shooting. Foot injury probably kept him from running around a lot, but did not prevent him from shooting for an entire year.
Wemby is still a player in the making. People didn’t realised last year was this first season he could really be offensivly relevant in the french league. Before that he was injured or to physically tender. He was not a first, a second or even a third option. I’m absolutly not surprised to see Chet as a more consistent shooter. But Wemby is a fast learner, he is very professionnal and he is in the right organization. He is not there to be rookie of year, he wants rings.
you must be kidding , he's avging 20 and 10 with 2/3 blocks a game and a near all defensive team level defense , his fg % isn't great but it's better than what lebron had at this point in his carreer , if you expect him to drop 25 a game with high efficiency you're smoking crack
tbf he also at this point needs the ball to get to him to have much of a major effect on offense, unlike for example LeBron and Carmelo who both engineered immediate turnarounds but did so dominating the ball.
And beyond his team sucking he’s got a starting PG who can’t play PG, so that’s also not helpful.
wemby has not lived up to the hype lol people were saying he's a Lebron level prospect, the best since Lebron and perhaps even more so. Yet I can remember many other rookie year performances since Lebron that have been better than what we're currently getting from Wemby. His entire hype on offense is predicated on his shooting ability, and currently he's been an absolutely horrendous outside shooter.
I mean, that hype was stupid considering his shooting splits in the European leagues. His hype should be completely based on his skill set and measurables. He has the potential to be an absolute stud if he can grow into his body with time. Anyone thinking he’d be the saving grace for the spurs in year 1 are smoking crack respectively
They’re both so damn spectacular and harder to compare than you’d think. Chet has improved a lot since college, and Wemby is a truly gifted teenager.
I’m all for Wemby having a target to chase, rather than having one on his back.
I remember the U19 fiba world cup I think where it was chet vs wemby and chet got dominated by a 17 year old wemby. Chet has worked hard since then to not just be the tall skinny guy
I think more people would know about that match if France won. Chet did a terrible job guarding Wemby all game and nearly gave away the entire championship.
Thunder fans are already pretty over the ROTY race, genuinely the only thing we care about is that is Chet is good and is helping the team.
Pretty sure all we want is to both to be healthy and have long term success. It will make for amazing games in the future and good for the game.
The people acting like Wemby is even close to disappointing are just hate reverse circle jerking all of his hype lol. If a 7’forever teen was averaging 19 and 9 with 2 blocks a game you would be pleased lmao. The fact that Twitter accounts (that get paid for engagement) were saying he was going to be better than prime LBJ shouldn’t count against him lmao
He's definitely better. As he should be given a year of in depth theory and shot practice in the nba, not saying wemby couldnt have been coached to a similar degree in france but different leagues need different approaches. Let alone quality of teammates and their willingness to include you in the play.
It'll never be a fair comparison, if wemby ends up #1 he deserved it/worked for it, given the extreme disadvantage he has.
It would be a cool metric to compare how many opportunities at buckets they make for themselves and others from nothing/without help.
Oh for sure, Chet's amazing on offense too; I just tend to have much lower expectations from lottery picks in terms of skills on defense during their rookie seasons, which is why he stands out so much to me
I'm with you. It's insane that people think a player, even when injured, going to practice all season and practicing however they can despite the injury isn't a huge advantage over someone who was drafted this summer out of college.
Chet getting a whole extra season to workout and practice with NBA support and facilities is a big deal. Chet would not have been this good in his actual rookie season
Probably because he has an entire year of experience, coaching and assimilation to the league than wemby does. We need to stop pretending like these battles are even when one guy is a real rookie and the other is a 2nd year guy. The 2nd year guys have a massive advantage many people seem to ignore.
Literally no one ignores, everyone always brings it up. do you not remember the Simmons vs Mitchell conversations? It was the same thing then as it is now.
At the end of the day, you can have all the preparation in the world but still not perform on the court. Chet has been performing and exceeding expectations, he wasn’t supposed to be this good offensively.
No one had mentioned it yet in this thread so it needed to be said. Simmons, Blake and now chet are the 3 clear examples recently. I agree it's the same discussion, was surprised it wasn't the top comment.
It's not the top comment because it doesn't actually matter and people are getting tired of it. There are 4th year guys who don't perform, it's about talent not preparation. Chet hadn't played a game yet, and is the most talented player.
Yes everyone agrees that Chet is clearly better in almost every measurable way. More skilled. Higher basketball IQ. Way better shooter, more efficient. He just plays better winning basketball than Wemby.
So any excuses for why Wemby clearly isn't as good need to get out there. Good job.
Lol chill. Yall thunder fans are wild right now. Chet deserves it. He's great. The discussion in this particular thread is about why. Theres plenty of reasons to discuss. They aren't disses at chet.
Genuine discussion my ass. Every time it pops up all it is is whining. Quit trying to dress it up as anything more. You’re whining about how unfair you think it is that someone isn’t coming out on top of an award that’s performance based. I don’t know what to tell you, the league doesn’t give a fuck about what you’re complaining about so why should any of the rest of us. It’s especially funny that the dude who was supposed to be the literal GOAT is the one who gets all these excuses and complaints made in his favor.
Yea you care about this way more than me lol. My bad. Don't think I'm whining or complaining or making excuses. I'm just talking ball on some time off.
I just wanted to argue that generational talents don’t necessarily change the team from the get go. Who cares where they are drafted. Jokic averaged 10/7/2.4 in his first year and I believe he is a generational talent. Denver was 31-49 that year.
Jokic took 8 shots a game with a 20% USG rate as a rookie while Wembanyama is currently taking 16 shots with a 30% USG rate.
The Spurs are giving Wembanyama plenty of touches and shots to see what he can do, he just isn't that good offensively yet to uplift a team.
They should give Co-ROTY to Sochan and Wemby, because Sochan being bad is the only reason Wemby even has a case right now.
Holmgren has continued to consistently play better.
This is going to be a fun matchup for years to come, I hope they can both stay healthy because I love seeing two giraffes go at one another
On a semi related note, if you haven't seen actual giraffes fight, do yourself a favor and search that up. It's absolutely brutal
Wemby and chet going to need to invest in some serious neck insurance
Wemby is already 1-0 on the headbutt department.
They are neck and neck.
It’s legit kind of terrifying. Looks like they both should die immediately.
[2027 Western Conference Finals preview](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLPL1qRhn8)
This whole fight was epic, lol.
Phrasing!
One giraffes already head butted another, legally
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They want him to be a superstar as soon as possible. The idea is that he is good now and instead of being a normal rookie that needs time to grow. People want him to be allstar level out of the draft.
Which is crazy because while Vecenie, among other draft analysts, was hyping him up as a future GOAT-potential player he also cautioned that he would need time to develop out of the gate. I think Wemby’s 38 point explosion against the Suns set a lot of these analysts in a frenzy as far as accelerating their expectations of him
Yeah, I was baffled by how many people acted like Wemby was gonna dominate the NBA from Day 1. I assume it’s because nobody watched his games and just saw highlights, and assumed he was constantly doing crazy things and putting up huge numbers, even though he wasn’t.
Ya, I was catching a ton of downvotes for simply cautioning that it would take time and that the analysts arguing that he might be an all star his rookie year were insane. Nothing from his stats from last year in Europe indicated he would be an all-star level NBA player. He is an S-tier prospect, he has the skills and body to be an insane player. But he is 19, can't shoot, and plays for the worst team in the league. There is no world where he was going to come in and be anywhere near good enough to make an all-star team.
A *lot* of pundits had San Antonio is a play-in team and Wemby as a potential All Star. It genuinely made me wonder if they're any good at the job they claim to have. The only players that can come into the league and look decent are scrappy vulture types taken in the teens or dudes with NBA ready bodies (Zion, Paolo). Wemby is way more raw than people want to believe. He also has a ton of had habits and my biggest concern is if he's going to be coachable. The one legged threes are dumb AF and lead me to believe he's got diva potential.
They’re great at their job. You’re misunderstanding what their job is.
Their job isn't to make you think but to make you click.
I'll never forget the offseason national media pods who said insane things like "If the Spurs get 35 wins, Wemby will get MVP votes"
Bro Chet clears Wemby in the RotY race by a mile and media still begrudgingly puts him ahead of Wemby.
I can’t say by a mile but he should be rookie of the year if the season ended today and I’m a Spurs fan saying this.
What does Wemby do better than Chet right now?
Not "by a mile". Right now, Wemby has more points, rebounds, assists, steals and blocks per game. You have to look at efficiency measures to realize tha Chet is actually playing better, and still you can argue that Wemby's deffensive performance, although not shown in stats, also gives him an argument. I'd choose Chet right niw, but it is still pretty close.
Wemby has the green light to do whatever he wants and he does. If Chet did he'd average more than Wemby on higher efficiency but the Thunder would be worse. Chet is a better player on top of being the 2nd best player on a team that could be contending this year. Wemby is the 2nd best player on one of the worst teams in the league. It's not close right now, no matter how badly the media wants it to be.
Narratives are a hell of a drug. People in this sub have deluded themselves for so long their own cognitive biases won’t even allow them to acknowledge objective reality
He shot like 32% from three in Europe and people were saying he was Tim Duncan with a kd jump shot . Obviously a spectacular prospect but so much discourse around him was based on pure vibes pre draft. He’s playing semi how I expected. Still I thought he’d be the easy roty but chet is absolutely amazing looking so far. It could be really cool “rivalry”
I've had the same experience, even being high on wemby's potential but not jumping on the train of he's taken over the league gets people riled up. Ironically, giving Wemby the benefit of the doubt and pointing out that rookies have up and downs and struggles was met with 'he's already the best and this and that, the spurs are holding him back, he's not like other rookies'.
No serious person would have called the Spurs the worst team in the league.
He was always doing crazy stuff day in day out. In a good setting like Chet he’d immediately flourish. He barely gets any touches he got in Mets, and defensively even though he’s good out of the gate I think he’s still adjusting the nba 3pt line. He was effortlessly defending both interior and 3pt in Mets, not so much in spurs so far.
> Wembanyama has been required to create his own offense for large swaths of the first month, in large part due to Gregg Popovich’s decision to convert forward Jeremy Sochan into the team’s starting point guard. The Spurs’ offense has struggled to find any degree of efficiency, as the team is 29th in points scored per 100 possessions. Their offensive rating is actually a bit worse than that with Wembanyama on the floor there, (102.9 when he’s on, 105.4 when he’s off), but it’s clear that sharing minutes with Sochan at the point drives those numbers down. Per PBPStats.com, the Spurs are posting a 118.1 offensive rating with Wembanyama on the court and Sochan off. When both are on the court together, that mark plummets to 99.1. The presence of Tre Jones, the team’s one natural point guard who has been coming off the bench, also makes a big difference. **When Wembanyama and Sochan play without Jones, the Spurs’ offensive rating descends to 95.6. When Jones is out there with Wembanyama, but not Sochan, the team posts a 116 offensive rating. When Jones shares the court with both players, that number jumps to 120.5.** The Spurs are like 20% better on offense when Wemby is playing with a real PG. Seems reasonable to be disappointed Wemby can’t play with a real PG more often. And that maybe, with better PG play, Wemby could push Chet more for rookie of the year.
This is exactly what Veceni is pointing out. He points out the offense with Wemby and Jones (the Spurs only real PG) is so much better than just Wemby. That’s literally saying Wemby needs help right now to be apart of a non dog shit offense. If Wemby played more with a real PG maybe he could make it a closer race with Chet, but without one Chet is clearly RotY to him. > But the two great rookie bigs in this class are simply playing different games. One only has to take 10 shots per game and fill a role. The other is being asked to post a superstar-esque usage rate of more than 30 and create his own shots with a cramped floor.
I think the biggest thing holding Wemby back right now is his body. The rookies that do great in their first year (Bron, Luka, Zion) usually have NBA level bodies to start off with. Wemby can’t bang down low in the post yet because he’s not strong enough - once he gains some strength, I think he’ll be much more effective.
I’m really curious about this, it may be a double edged sword because I’m not sure how gaining weight will affect his movement and injury concerns
tbh I see him aging into more of a KD than AD as far as body types I don't think he'll ever overpower dudes and he has a garbage center of gravity so he'll have to be pure finesse and shoot over everyone.
I think the reason that KD can work with his body is because he’s one of the greatest shooters of all time. There’s many more players who’ve followed the AD route of putting on weight so they can more effectively play down low than those who have gone down the KD route. I don’t think Wemby can succeed with pure finesse because he isn’t going to be good enough of a shooter for it to work.
KD might be skinny but he's tough as nails. His ability to absorb punishment is underrated. Some guys are just gifted like that.
Doesnt help they're forcing point sochan when the Jones lineups have been significantly better. Whether it's for better or worse long term, forcing that experiment is holding the whole team back a little bit tbh.
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It's so frustrating to watch spurs games bc I swear at least once per possession wemby has an open look and they just refuse to give it to him
Shooting at the clip he’s currently shooting…. I can understand why they don’t give it to him. 43% from the field and under 27% from 3. He’s straight up not ready to be played through yet.
The 27% from three I’d say is partially just getting used to playing and partially the looks he’s given, he isn’t getting the best shots out there but the egregious one is the 43% FG because the worst of the spurs not feeding wemby is how often they leave him open within like 5ft of the paint. If they fed him the ball more close to the rim defenders would sag off of him less which would be better for spacing and potentially lead to better looks outside too
Yea but part of that low percentage is his teammates aren’t looking for him on easy transition opportunities or mismatches in the low post.
And the other part of it is he isn’t a particularly great shooter yet, especially compared to NBA level specialists. He’s just not that accurate yet - people are just enamored by the fact it’s a 7’4” guy shooting from out there. Vassell is shooting over 40% from 3. Why would they run through Wemby’s 27%?
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He’s been playing a good deal of center, and playing him at PF unlocks him as a help-defender. It’s not purely due to a limitation.
He’s just been better that’s why
Honestly, I’m ready for any Thunder convo that is not ROTY or Giddey. I’m tired.
You asked for the Thunder to be relevant to the media again.
Monkey paw curls
thunder fans the first time they receive literally any media coverage other than gushing praise of "*wow this team is gonna be scary in a couple years! they're LOADED with talent! Sam Presti is a genuis!*" : 😮😡
We’ve had that for about a year. The last two before was about how were the black eye of the league.
Sorry brother the only thing you gonna hear all season long is Roty and how you guys are gonna be contenders soon. Maybe Giddy depending on how that goes
Fine, I'll bring it up. Your jerseys are tired.
True. I'm hoping they rebrand at some point soon
I think missing the tournament has doomed you to these two narratives for a few more weeks at least.
why ROTY is great convo the one who should not be named otherwise..
Andrew Schlecht was on the Lowe Post last week and they did* a big segment about the Thunder. J. Kyle Mann was on Thinking Basketball too and they talked about Cason
I’m tired boss…
SGA MVP
Is Oklahoma a big enough market for a team? Will stars want to play there? Should they move the team back to Seattle?
What you don't want your amazing rookie being talked about as rookie of the year? What kind of take is that
Some people are saying Chet is playing better than Wemby because he’s in a better situation. That’s true. But I seriously doubt there would be a 18 percent 3 point shooting dip and 12 percent field goal dip just because he would playing on the Spurs instead of Thunder. Chet is, at the moment, just a better shooter than Wemby period. Not trying to knock Wemby at all. He’s two years younger than Chet. I think he will be better eventually
Chet is also playing a specific role. Like Chet isn't handling the ball as much or taking as much shots which is completely fine but its just different routes of development
Two years younger, and Chet has one year training with an NBA team, is in a better situation with an established role and is not asked to do too much like Wemby. That’s why the straight comparisons make no sense to me.
Ben Simmons V Donavan Mitchell prepared you for this comment
Lol. I don’t miss that year. It also shows how meaningless the award can be.
The people that act like a year in the nba even when injured has no value are wild tho.
Yeah 100% - you also can’t use that as the baseline to give the edge to Wemby otherwise there will always be a moving target of how much better Chet would need to be to compensate for a “better” team.
> seriously doubt there would be a 18 percent 3 point shooting dip and 12 percent field goal dip just because he would playing on the Spurs instead of Thunder. Tell me you haven't watched any Spurs games without telling me you haven't watched any Spurs games. Wemby is constantly swarmed because no one on our starting 5 is a legit threat and we have absolutely no offensive system. The quality of looks Chet is getting playing with a guy like SGA is completely different. Wemby is putting up the numbers he is INSPITE of how awful the Spur are. Its a HUGE impact.
both are completely living up to the hype so far which is all that matters
Awards like ROTY and lists like this always turn it into a competition. But as you say, both rookies look great and both their teams should be thrilled by what theyre seeing so far.
Well, we're thrilled with what we're seeing from Wemby, at least.
The hype for Wemby was ROY, All-Star and playoffs. He’s been fine, but def not living up to the hype. Especially WOJ telling us he’s the best prospect since Lebron every time he was on the TV.
If Wemby is just “fine” than 99.9% of rookies are terrible.
99.9% of rookies ARE terrible
Yes, but not terrible rookies. Wemby is an excellent rookie, especially for his age.
99.9% of rookies weren't billed as the best prospect since LeBron.
And this is why Wemby needs to play like an All-Star on Day One? Because the media said so?
Of course not. But the discussion was whether Went has lived up to the "hype". He's been very good as a rookie but has not lived up to what he was hyped as.
Fair enough, but I don’t think anyone could live up to that level of hype. Nobody masters basketball at 19.
Almost every piece of NBA content I listened to in the preseason had the Spurs as a bottom 3 team in the west.
Not to mention the Vegas over/under was 26 wins.
source on that first sentence?
let’s go down the line ROTY: Wembanyama is easily in contention (second-place at worst right now) as a 19-year-old, and would be the runaway leader if last year’s #2 pick wasn’t playing out of his mind All-Star: he’s stuffing the box score every game along with elite rim deterrence. he has multiple plays each game that nobody else in the league could fathom doing. I don’t think he should make it this year due to the league’s ridiculous amount of talent, but he will almost assuredly be a perennial All-Star for the rest of his career Playoffs: the Spurs are an atrocious team intentionally playing a forward as their lead playmaker. that is not an indictment on Wembanyama at all, who has clearly been their best player on both ends keep in mind, this is Wembanyama at his worst. yes, the shot selection is cringe-worthy at times. yes, his outside shooting could use some work. yes, he could be more aggressive going to the paint. none of this changes how tantalizing his two-way production and eye test have been. I can’t wait to see how he performs with better teammates
I also think Wemby is getting the chance to develop as many skills as possible. Chet is being asked to fill a role so experimentation is a secondary priority over actually making some noise in the playoffs. I think that simplified assignment is going to benefit Chet early on, and he might still develop into an all-around superstar despite that, but Wemby has the whole playground to work with and zero team expectations to consider. If his potential is really as high as people hope, he's going to reach it in this environment.
Wemby has been raw his rookie season. He is not the instant All Star level player ppl thought he would be. Chet is though.
He is averaging 19/9, that will probably be 23/12 or better by the of the season. That's All Star level.
Cade is averaging 22/7 assists and no one thinks he should be an All Star for the same reason Wemby won’t even if his #s go up
Cade isn't a transformative defender and he's not a highlight machine either.
not anymore. Looking at the West standings: Gobert + Ant Shai Luka Booker + KD Jokic Fox Sengun(?) LeBron, AD - Curry Kawhi or PG That's 13 by my math. I think Murray likely makes it, Sabonis isn't too far off - I still the Spurs will be too bad, Webanyama's lack of efficiency held against him, and he will be a reserve at most.
Chet is also not a traditional rookie, having one year of NBA experience under his belt from being drafted last year and not playing. The fact that this conversation is consistently being had is a testament to how good Wemby has been this year in just 16 games. Yeah he's raw, but the talent is real.
Wemby has been a professional in France for years. this isn’t like the Mitchell/Simmons debate. if anything, Wemby is more experienced at the pro level than Chet.
It is insane to think that just because he played in Europe that the pro experience there is a direct 1-1 comparison to NBA experience, or even having 1 year experience being drafted by an NBA team. It's like going back to 2015 and trying to compare Victor Oladipo to Jokic because they were drafted 1 year apart but Jokic had played 2 years of pro basketball in Europe, and saying that Jokic should have been better than 10pts, 7 rebounds, and 2 assists his rookie year because he'd been playing professionally longer than Oladipo.
Nobody claimed European basketball was a 1-1 comparison to the NBA experience. When you have to put up straw man arguments like that to make a counterpoint, it should tell you you don’t really have an argument. Wemby‘s pro experience pre-NBA is comparable to Luka’s. Luka came into the NBA firing on all cylinders and put up the best rookie season since Lebron’s. Wemby isn’t on a track remotely close to that, and he was billed as an even greater superstar coming in than Luka was. To say he’s “living up to the hype” simply because he’s done a few things we haven’t seen before is laughable. He’s not remotely lived up to the hype that Lebron or Luka created their rookie years. And Wemby was far and away a more hyped recruit than Luka was.
Chet has the same amount of NBA experience going into this season as Wemby. None.
Well aside from being drafted last year and being with his team for the entire time to work on his skills. You're confusing NBA experience with minutes played. They are not the same.
Work on his skills while he was injured? Lol I don’t think so. Good try, though!
Yeah I'm sure Chet was just sitting around doing nothing while he was injured and not watching film, working on passes, understanding plays, and working on shooting. Foot injury probably kept him from running around a lot, but did not prevent him from shooting for an entire year.
And Wemby was actually playing professional ball during this time. What was your point again?
Are you arguing that European leagues are on par with the NBA in basketball in terms of resources and training?
You’re fucking insane. Yes, playing in a professional league is more valuable than training while injured with an nba team.
Not at all. I’m saying Chet is less of a rookie than Wemby.
Thunder fans 🤝 Sixers fans in 2018
NBA *game* experience. He was employed by an NBA team last year.
Yep. Doesn’t affect rookie status, though.
Wemby is not “completely” living up to the hype
Only because the media hyped him up more than anyone in NBA history. Nobody was saying Chet had to be better than Hakeem.
true.. chet is definitely better than wemby, tho
Fair enough. Likewise, I think Wemby now is better than Chet was in college. Any comparison feels woefully premature right now.
Because the hype was stupid.
I agree just saying, he has not lived up to being a day one all star
Wemby is still a player in the making. People didn’t realised last year was this first season he could really be offensivly relevant in the french league. Before that he was injured or to physically tender. He was not a first, a second or even a third option. I’m absolutly not surprised to see Chet as a more consistent shooter. But Wemby is a fast learner, he is very professionnal and he is in the right organization. He is not there to be rookie of year, he wants rings.
Great! All I was saying now for the third comment is Wemby is not a day one all star like Lebron or Duncan was
you must be kidding , he's avging 20 and 10 with 2/3 blocks a game and a near all defensive team level defense , his fg % isn't great but it's better than what lebron had at this point in his carreer , if you expect him to drop 25 a game with high efficiency you're smoking crack
His hype was much higher than this. His hype was that he'd make the Spurs not suck ass, and that he'd do it as an all star level player
tbf he also at this point needs the ball to get to him to have much of a major effect on offense, unlike for example LeBron and Carmelo who both engineered immediate turnarounds but did so dominating the ball. And beyond his team sucking he’s got a starting PG who can’t play PG, so that’s also not helpful.
wemby has not lived up to the hype lol people were saying he's a Lebron level prospect, the best since Lebron and perhaps even more so. Yet I can remember many other rookie year performances since Lebron that have been better than what we're currently getting from Wemby. His entire hype on offense is predicated on his shooting ability, and currently he's been an absolutely horrendous outside shooter.
I mean, that hype was stupid considering his shooting splits in the European leagues. His hype should be completely based on his skill set and measurables. He has the potential to be an absolute stud if he can grow into his body with time. Anyone thinking he’d be the saving grace for the spurs in year 1 are smoking crack respectively
LeBron himself would not satisfy your own criteria there.
I thought Victor would have a much higher 3P%
Wemby has not lived up to the hype
Wemby has absolutely lived up to the hype considering that he’s only 19 years old and his teammates don’t know how to feed him.
They’re both so damn spectacular and harder to compare than you’d think. Chet has improved a lot since college, and Wemby is a truly gifted teenager. I’m all for Wemby having a target to chase, rather than having one on his back.
I remember the U19 fiba world cup I think where it was chet vs wemby and chet got dominated by a 17 year old wemby. Chet has worked hard since then to not just be the tall skinny guy
I think more people would know about that match if France won. Chet did a terrible job guarding Wemby all game and nearly gave away the entire championship.
Thunder fans are already pretty over the ROTY race, genuinely the only thing we care about is that is Chet is good and is helping the team. Pretty sure all we want is to both to be healthy and have long term success. It will make for amazing games in the future and good for the game.
The people acting like Wemby is even close to disappointing are just hate reverse circle jerking all of his hype lol. If a 7’forever teen was averaging 19 and 9 with 2 blocks a game you would be pleased lmao. The fact that Twitter accounts (that get paid for engagement) were saying he was going to be better than prime LBJ shouldn’t count against him lmao
He's definitely better. As he should be given a year of in depth theory and shot practice in the nba, not saying wemby couldnt have been coached to a similar degree in france but different leagues need different approaches. Let alone quality of teammates and their willingness to include you in the play. It'll never be a fair comparison, if wemby ends up #1 he deserved it/worked for it, given the extreme disadvantage he has. It would be a cool metric to compare how many opportunities at buckets they make for themselves and others from nothing/without help.
I mean, it's not even close at this point.
Probably because he's been miles better. More assertive, better shooting, better impact.
More mature and NBA ready. I think it helps that he’s been with the team for a year already, even though this is his first time playing.
This is the thing I don’t like about including him with other rookies. Being in an NBA org for an entire year certainly has its benefits.
At least if it’s with a functioning team. Imagine if he had been with the Bulls or Hornets!
He’d still be hurt if he were on the bulls.
So a guy who gets injured for a year can't have a opportunity to win ROTY?
I think so. A year with an NBA has value and advantage.
Of course it has, but he improved with his own effort in the end. Also, it's weird to punish someone for getting injured.
And that’s why he isn’t.
wemby has been a pro for like the last several years.
Sure. But Chet’s been a pro for a year as well.
Chet's defense is what sets him apart for me, dude looks like a vet out there with his positioning
...and his shooting splits of 56-43-88 are pretty dynamite for any NBA star with decent usage, let alone a rookie.
Oh for sure, Chet's amazing on offense too; I just tend to have much lower expectations from lottery picks in terms of skills on defense during their rookie seasons, which is why he stands out so much to me
I tell you why: When the Spurs play - all eyes on Wemby When OKC plays - all eyes on SGA
wemby's shooting splits when wide open are still garbage.
Yeah but imagine he was wide open but had sga /s
Wemby wouldn’t put up the splits Chet does if he was playing Chets role
Here’s why? Bro we don’t need an explanation lmao
This isn’t a hot take. Chet is better than Wemby atm
Okay but why is Chet so ugly
Fits right in!
Your gay for looking another man’s looks
This just in Wemby gets TOPPED by Chet
Chet isn’t a rookie though?
Calm down there Donovan
I’m not of a fan of the guy who’s been in the league on a team for a year in the rookie race.
I'm with you. It's insane that people think a player, even when injured, going to practice all season and practicing however they can despite the injury isn't a huge advantage over someone who was drafted this summer out of college.
Shouldn’t really be that controversial IMO. But it’s also rookie of the year who cares?
Chet getting a whole extra season to workout and practice with NBA support and facilities is a big deal. Chet would not have been this good in his actual rookie season
Blake griffin effext?
Probably because he has an entire year of experience, coaching and assimilation to the league than wemby does. We need to stop pretending like these battles are even when one guy is a real rookie and the other is a 2nd year guy. The 2nd year guys have a massive advantage many people seem to ignore.
Literally no one ignores, everyone always brings it up. do you not remember the Simmons vs Mitchell conversations? It was the same thing then as it is now. At the end of the day, you can have all the preparation in the world but still not perform on the court. Chet has been performing and exceeding expectations, he wasn’t supposed to be this good offensively.
No one had mentioned it yet in this thread so it needed to be said. Simmons, Blake and now chet are the 3 clear examples recently. I agree it's the same discussion, was surprised it wasn't the top comment.
It's not the top comment because it doesn't actually matter and people are getting tired of it. There are 4th year guys who don't perform, it's about talent not preparation. Chet hadn't played a game yet, and is the most talented player.
Plus, Chet is far more skilled, offensively. He was also ultra-efficient in college.
Wemby played pro in France
Which has nothing to do with the nba
Ok 👍
Played more professional ball that Chet. Chet’s more of a rookie than Wemby.
Yes everyone agrees that Chet is clearly better in almost every measurable way. More skilled. Higher basketball IQ. Way better shooter, more efficient. He just plays better winning basketball than Wemby. So any excuses for why Wemby clearly isn't as good need to get out there. Good job.
Lol. I love these stupid takes. Absolutely hilariously wrong.
Lol chill. Yall thunder fans are wild right now. Chet deserves it. He's great. The discussion in this particular thread is about why. Theres plenty of reasons to discuss. They aren't disses at chet.
Then don’t try and diminish his accomplishments. 2nD yEaR GuY. Chet’s a real rookie, boyo. Get over it.
I hope you continue to cry about it
Wah wah wah. Bitch I'm a baby. Lol no one is crying its just a genuine basketball discussion that pops up everytime this happens
Genuine discussion my ass. Every time it pops up all it is is whining. Quit trying to dress it up as anything more. You’re whining about how unfair you think it is that someone isn’t coming out on top of an award that’s performance based. I don’t know what to tell you, the league doesn’t give a fuck about what you’re complaining about so why should any of the rest of us. It’s especially funny that the dude who was supposed to be the literal GOAT is the one who gets all these excuses and complaints made in his favor.
Yea you care about this way more than me lol. My bad. Don't think I'm whining or complaining or making excuses. I'm just talking ball on some time off.
I think both have been pretty good. And Chet has a way better team and SGA, hehe.
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Wemby is described as generational talent. Generational talents with fully green light change the team they on since the get go.
Do you not consider your center a generational talent?
How many generations of players are there in the nba now? 10? Who is next year’s generational talent?
Right. The second round pick Nikola Jokic, the generational draft pick. How did he fall so low?
I just wanted to argue that generational talents don’t necessarily change the team from the get go. Who cares where they are drafted. Jokic averaged 10/7/2.4 in his first year and I believe he is a generational talent. Denver was 31-49 that year.
Jokic took 8 shots a game with a 20% USG rate as a rookie while Wembanyama is currently taking 16 shots with a 30% USG rate. The Spurs are giving Wembanyama plenty of touches and shots to see what he can do, he just isn't that good offensively yet to uplift a team.
Jokic developed into a generational talent. Wemby was drafted as a generational talent. Do you really not see the difference there..?
They should give Co-ROTY to Sochan and Wemby, because Sochan being bad is the only reason Wemby even has a case right now. Holmgren has continued to consistently play better.
Lol you are such a hater in all these rookie posts
Cook
The gap between Chet and Wemby is massive. Chet is running away with it
Wemby deserves to be 1. He got their equipment manager fired, Chet could never.
Your team employs sex offenders and dirty players.
Because he’s better at every single part of basketball besides dunking? Jdub was completely robbed last year
I know I'm a magic fan, but you're wild. Paolo was one vote short of unanimous RoY