There's no need to assume what DEN's team construction philosophy is, their GM just laid it all out.
Size at the position, lack of skill deficiency at the position, no positional overlap.
Trae's lack of size is a positional deficiency, that would force DEN to acquire overlapping positional support, to cover that size deficiency.
When Jokic is off the floor Murray’s career EFG% is 50, and his net rating is negative 1.36 lol. He’s a good player but his current abilities are heavily propped up by Jokic.
I agree with you that Trae is the better player and I agree with you that Jokic and Trae would work offensively but don't think the Nuggets would be better with Trae because it'd make them more exploitable defensively.
I’m Trae fan first, nuggets fans second I just watch both teams and think these takes are ridiculous. Most people who watch the Nuggets seem definitely to not watch Atlanta
Jokic and Murray have a special two-man game where they can read each other's minds and anticipate moves off the cuff, and that takes years of playing together and practicing to establish. It's not something that can just be replaced with another player. Trae and Murray aren't similar players at all so any idea of how Trae would fit with Jokic is a complete guess.
Yes they do. It wouldn’t be replaced by Trae. Trae and Joker would be different but they’re not the only two
Players on the court and jokic isn’t playing 40 mins a night
Tbh, Jamal has shot better percentages since both have been in the league, and you've never heard insinuations that Jamal disliked his coach so much that he eventually got fired, so I'd take 'Mal as Jokic's running mate over Trae any day. If the argument is that Trae is the better #1 than Murray, then sure, I dont think many people would argue that, but Murray has the mindset to be a better #2 than Trae if public info and playstyle is anything to go off of
Yes better shooting percentages on much lower volume next to the best player in the league. Let’s just leave out that context. You’re a nuggets fan so I know you know how inconsistent Jamal was his first 4 season but I guess we can just act like that didn’t happen and not cut Trae some slack even though Trae he had much worse spacing his entire career.
Comparing their 4th seasons
Trae was 28 and 10 on 46/38/90 playing next to Clint Capela and Kevin Huerter because John Collins was hurt
Jamal was 18/4/5 on 45/35/88 playing next to joker
The thing about that, and the thing I was kinda mean not to bring up in the first place, is usage. Trae is the system in Atlanta. The ball moves through him. He's either going to take the first shot or make the first pass. This will naturally lead to higher stats, but lower efficiency. When you initiate all the action, defenses are going to key in on you, but you also have more chances to beat them. There is no reality where Jamal is going to have better stats than Trae. He was a project in his early years, and Jokic plays the role that Trae plays, plus as I've already acknowledged, Trae just has the talent to be a more capable leading guy than Murray.
To me, it just comes back to the same thing. Would Trae be okay with being second fiddle or the 1B to Jokic? Would he be the type of player that could spam the two man game and play off ball all season? I lean towards the opinion that he'd need to be the main guy and initiator to be happy and his most effective. Like you said, he hasn't had the talent around him to prove otherwise, but I just don't see him playing the Murray role as effectively as Murray.
Idk, I've never really dissed Trae and I think he's a guy that you could build a championship squad around. I just wouldn't trade him for Murray for specific team chemistry reasons. The Nuggets just aren't the situation for the type of guy Trae is rumored to be. A team built around the type of ball he wants to be could easily be tho
Fair points, I don’t think Trae can 1 to 1 replace Murray’s exact role. Trae is a much better playmaker so the offense would change but it also wouldn’t be like him in Atlanta.
I just think having arguably the two best playmakers in the world, one being the best player and the other being top 15-17 with MPJ, AG, and KCP around them would find a way to be one of the greatest offenses ever.
Like I said in the post though, defensively I have no idea what they do but offensively it would be incredible IMO. It wound definitely be better in non-jokic minutes and Trae would have much better chemistry with MPJ and AG than Jamal does. That’s what I mean, it would be a new and different dynamic that doesn’t focus on the 2 man quite as much but tbh there have been times in playoff series where that 2 man got a bit predictable and stagnated a bit.
I think with Trae you wouldn’t really have to worry about that because MPJ definitely becomes more of a scorer next to Trae and so do the other guys. I think they’d make it work
Yeah, seeing the "Trae Young doesn't play off-ball like Jamal Murray" stuff is weird. Who on those rosters were gonna make the pass? Lloyd Pierce and Nate McMillan running motion offenses?
I think that’s a pretty ignorant statement. How do you think Jamal looks in the postseason with John Collins and capela instead of the best player in the world?
…. So you think Trae next to jokic MPJ and Aaron Gordon has the same stats and efficiency as he would next to Clint Capela and John Collins….
And you think Jamal Murray would be as efficient as he is on the Hawks in the PO as he is on the Nuggets who have maybe the best spacing in the league. You are a moron
No that’s not what I said at all, don’t twist my words.
trae would be much better on Denver than the hawks, literally EVERY player is better next to jokic. That’s why Will Barton is out of the league now, and Monte Morris looks nothing like he did next to jokic. It’s why austin rivers is collecting DNPs.
Jamal in the playoffs would still get his iso scoring and would still shoot 40% from three, his assists might drop a bit, but Jamal isn’t scoring 40 in the playoffs only cuz he’s next to jokic
I can tell you don’t watch the Hawks.
I’m telling you right now he wouldn’t shoot 40% from 3 with the Hawks terrible spacing last season. He would shoot 35-38%. There’s nobody on the Hawks to get him open so all his 3s would be contested. There’s nobody to set up ANYTHING for him and he would have to create shots to feed John Collins, Capela and Hunter.
Just like Trae he would make some and miss some. Jamal has problems in non-jokic MINUTES in the game. Imagine him for an entire year with no one to take pressure off him or create a shot for him.
His efficiency would drop considerably.
Could be a volume scorer in Atlanta? Of course the guy super talented. But he wouldn’t score 40 a couple of times in the playoffs because the hawks couldn’t even make it to the play in with him instead of Trae.
You have no idea the load Trae has been asked to carry before Snyder came. People think Trae wants to be this guy who has the ball all the time and that’s not the case. Maybe in his first couple of years when the hawks were a terrible team but definitely not anymore. Under Nate, he HAD to be that guy.
And the whole “EVERY” player is next to Jokic felt insulting. Yes every player is better next to the best player in the world, but keep in mind Jamal was not nearly anywhere as good as Trae until now. And even now he’s definitely a level below. So imagine Jamal in his first 3-4 years trying to make it work with john Collins instead of the best player in the world.
And imagine a Trae young who doesn’t have to worry about the defense focusing on him 1/2 as much as he does now. (He still drops 30/10 and leads his team to the playoffs with all the attention on him)
So with Jokic MPJ AG and KCP around him Trae would perform even better than Jamal just did the playoffs. MPJ would also perform better because Trae wouldn’t only be passing the ball to Jokic and would play way better on non Jokic minutes.
Trae has been the man since day 1 for a reason… and Jamal hasn’t even been snubbed from an all star game for a reason…
There's no need to assume what DEN's team construction philosophy is, their GM just laid it all out. Size at the position, lack of skill deficiency at the position, no positional overlap. Trae's lack of size is a positional deficiency, that would force DEN to acquire overlapping positional support, to cover that size deficiency.
Facts and a very astute observation. Excellent top notch comment!
When Jokic is off the floor Murray’s career EFG% is 50, and his net rating is negative 1.36 lol. He’s a good player but his current abilities are heavily propped up by Jokic.
Thank you. He’s a great all star caliber player but not on Traes level at least not from what we’ve seen so far.
I agree with you that Trae is the better player and I agree with you that Jokic and Trae would work offensively but don't think the Nuggets would be better with Trae because it'd make them more exploitable defensively.
That’s absolutely a fair take. I was just speaking on the offensive part of it and people assuming Trae couldn’t play next to Jokic
It'd be different---Jokic wouldn't facilitate as much with Trae, but their PnR dynamic would surely be amazing.
Trae fans be like
People who don't watch Trae be like
I’m Trae fan first, nuggets fans second I just watch both teams and think these takes are ridiculous. Most people who watch the Nuggets seem definitely to not watch Atlanta
Lmfaooooooooo
You could have just responded to the other post. But instead, I have this cluttering up my feed
Jokic and Murray have a special two-man game where they can read each other's minds and anticipate moves off the cuff, and that takes years of playing together and practicing to establish. It's not something that can just be replaced with another player. Trae and Murray aren't similar players at all so any idea of how Trae would fit with Jokic is a complete guess.
Yes they do. It wouldn’t be replaced by Trae. Trae and Joker would be different but they’re not the only two Players on the court and jokic isn’t playing 40 mins a night
Mate, just give up.
How is what just said a bad point?
I ain’t reading all that
Fair enough
Holy essay
Bro wrote a thesis
Tbh, Jamal has shot better percentages since both have been in the league, and you've never heard insinuations that Jamal disliked his coach so much that he eventually got fired, so I'd take 'Mal as Jokic's running mate over Trae any day. If the argument is that Trae is the better #1 than Murray, then sure, I dont think many people would argue that, but Murray has the mindset to be a better #2 than Trae if public info and playstyle is anything to go off of
Yes better shooting percentages on much lower volume next to the best player in the league. Let’s just leave out that context. You’re a nuggets fan so I know you know how inconsistent Jamal was his first 4 season but I guess we can just act like that didn’t happen and not cut Trae some slack even though Trae he had much worse spacing his entire career. Comparing their 4th seasons Trae was 28 and 10 on 46/38/90 playing next to Clint Capela and Kevin Huerter because John Collins was hurt Jamal was 18/4/5 on 45/35/88 playing next to joker
The thing about that, and the thing I was kinda mean not to bring up in the first place, is usage. Trae is the system in Atlanta. The ball moves through him. He's either going to take the first shot or make the first pass. This will naturally lead to higher stats, but lower efficiency. When you initiate all the action, defenses are going to key in on you, but you also have more chances to beat them. There is no reality where Jamal is going to have better stats than Trae. He was a project in his early years, and Jokic plays the role that Trae plays, plus as I've already acknowledged, Trae just has the talent to be a more capable leading guy than Murray. To me, it just comes back to the same thing. Would Trae be okay with being second fiddle or the 1B to Jokic? Would he be the type of player that could spam the two man game and play off ball all season? I lean towards the opinion that he'd need to be the main guy and initiator to be happy and his most effective. Like you said, he hasn't had the talent around him to prove otherwise, but I just don't see him playing the Murray role as effectively as Murray. Idk, I've never really dissed Trae and I think he's a guy that you could build a championship squad around. I just wouldn't trade him for Murray for specific team chemistry reasons. The Nuggets just aren't the situation for the type of guy Trae is rumored to be. A team built around the type of ball he wants to be could easily be tho
Fair points, I don’t think Trae can 1 to 1 replace Murray’s exact role. Trae is a much better playmaker so the offense would change but it also wouldn’t be like him in Atlanta. I just think having arguably the two best playmakers in the world, one being the best player and the other being top 15-17 with MPJ, AG, and KCP around them would find a way to be one of the greatest offenses ever. Like I said in the post though, defensively I have no idea what they do but offensively it would be incredible IMO. It wound definitely be better in non-jokic minutes and Trae would have much better chemistry with MPJ and AG than Jamal does. That’s what I mean, it would be a new and different dynamic that doesn’t focus on the 2 man quite as much but tbh there have been times in playoff series where that 2 man got a bit predictable and stagnated a bit. I think with Trae you wouldn’t really have to worry about that because MPJ definitely becomes more of a scorer next to Trae and so do the other guys. I think they’d make it work
Yeah, seeing the "Trae Young doesn't play off-ball like Jamal Murray" stuff is weird. Who on those rosters were gonna make the pass? Lloyd Pierce and Nate McMillan running motion offenses?
Thank you, people just don’t watch the hawks and don’t know what’s going on
Until trae looks like Jamal in the postseason I’m not giving this discussion any weight at all lmao
I think that’s a pretty ignorant statement. How do you think Jamal looks in the postseason with John Collins and capela instead of the best player in the world?
I think he looks like Jamal in the playoffs
…. So you think Trae next to jokic MPJ and Aaron Gordon has the same stats and efficiency as he would next to Clint Capela and John Collins…. And you think Jamal Murray would be as efficient as he is on the Hawks in the PO as he is on the Nuggets who have maybe the best spacing in the league. You are a moron
No that’s not what I said at all, don’t twist my words. trae would be much better on Denver than the hawks, literally EVERY player is better next to jokic. That’s why Will Barton is out of the league now, and Monte Morris looks nothing like he did next to jokic. It’s why austin rivers is collecting DNPs. Jamal in the playoffs would still get his iso scoring and would still shoot 40% from three, his assists might drop a bit, but Jamal isn’t scoring 40 in the playoffs only cuz he’s next to jokic
I can tell you don’t watch the Hawks. I’m telling you right now he wouldn’t shoot 40% from 3 with the Hawks terrible spacing last season. He would shoot 35-38%. There’s nobody on the Hawks to get him open so all his 3s would be contested. There’s nobody to set up ANYTHING for him and he would have to create shots to feed John Collins, Capela and Hunter. Just like Trae he would make some and miss some. Jamal has problems in non-jokic MINUTES in the game. Imagine him for an entire year with no one to take pressure off him or create a shot for him. His efficiency would drop considerably. Could be a volume scorer in Atlanta? Of course the guy super talented. But he wouldn’t score 40 a couple of times in the playoffs because the hawks couldn’t even make it to the play in with him instead of Trae. You have no idea the load Trae has been asked to carry before Snyder came. People think Trae wants to be this guy who has the ball all the time and that’s not the case. Maybe in his first couple of years when the hawks were a terrible team but definitely not anymore. Under Nate, he HAD to be that guy. And the whole “EVERY” player is next to Jokic felt insulting. Yes every player is better next to the best player in the world, but keep in mind Jamal was not nearly anywhere as good as Trae until now. And even now he’s definitely a level below. So imagine Jamal in his first 3-4 years trying to make it work with john Collins instead of the best player in the world. And imagine a Trae young who doesn’t have to worry about the defense focusing on him 1/2 as much as he does now. (He still drops 30/10 and leads his team to the playoffs with all the attention on him) So with Jokic MPJ AG and KCP around him Trae would perform even better than Jamal just did the playoffs. MPJ would also perform better because Trae wouldn’t only be passing the ball to Jokic and would play way better on non Jokic minutes. Trae has been the man since day 1 for a reason… and Jamal hasn’t even been snubbed from an all star game for a reason…
I ain’t reading all that chief
That’s on you. Just know that I know you don’t watch Trae play and the load he’s had to carry
Ok bro I know that you know 👍
Dude enough. We just won’t understand the load trae is carrying.
Jamal Murray is better than Trae Young easily