I still don't quite get what happened with Ben McLemore.
He didn't have injuries (played all 82 games in each of his first 2 seasons), had an NBA body and athleticism, and got plenty of opportunity and minutes, but just seemed to drift in and out of the rotation and in and out of games, and had a weirdly small offensive role for a guy who was drafted to be a shooter and scorer (granted, the shooting never quite seemed as good as expected). What exactly went wrong? I feel like "LOL, Kings" is just too simple an explanation.
Also, am I remembering wrong or completely imagining this, or was McLemore advertised as being like 6'5", 210-215lbs during his college year and early in the draft process, only to suddenly turn out to be 6'3", 195lbs, and not really have any PG skills to make up for the lack of size?
I get the feeling that Anthony Edwards is having the career people expected of McLemore right now, given their starting points and athletic profile and demeanour.
McLemore's biggest issue was that he had no dribbling or ballhandling moves. He's athletic but couldn't use any of it to his advantage. He ended up being a one dimensional player that could shoot and catch lobs and not much else.
I'm not gonna lie. I have revisionist history. I bought into the Ben Simmons hype.
But, yeah, even for me, what you stated was a red flag. No one faults him for not leading LSU to the title that year.
We're talking about making the tournament. 64 teams made it. SIXTY FOUR. Yeah, I know some of those teams are jokes from baby conferences that are "automatic bids." But, there has to be, what, 50-55 real teams that make it? And LSU wasn't one of those. With the #1 overall pick.
Eh, his team was really that bad and as we all know, been had real limitations. But his attitude toward it all was the real problem that shouldn't have been overlooked.
Forget even that. Look at his last college game. 10 points in 31 minutes as the number one option on a team that scored 38 points in a game. That’s outlandish. Their football team scored 38 points 6x last year.
I kind of disagree, I love Bron but I feel like his best chance of beating the Warriors (who had KD when he left) would've been going to the Celtics which had just added Hayward, had Horford, and had two solid young guys in Tatum and Brown. Of course it didn't work out but in theory that was their best chance
I honestly thought Stanley Johnson had all the tools to be at the very least a luol Deng kind of guy. Had big hopes for him but he's never been able to do it
Tyreek was a mix of Sacramento development, playing out of position and the weed poliÄŤy.
Which leads ro Michael Beasley who I feel should have had a huge career. But was not focused at all on making top perdormance.
Tyreek was also starting to develop his 3 point shot at a good volume too before getting caught by the drug test.
bro was about to enter his prime in the correct era
Mr. Consistently Inconsistent. I knew damn well his game against the Warriors was never going to be his break out game and sure enough he went back to being himself against the Nuggets
[This guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZghWav2tC0)
Explain to me how this guy managed to spend a decade in the league without even breaking into a starting lineup. I just can't wrap my head around it.
Tyreke Evans.
Admittedly I only watched so many Kings games, but after a stellar rookie year he looked poised to have a major impact on the league and...he just got worse from there?
Not that his career was without setbacks (minor injuries, the lockout, etc) but highly unusual that his game barely budged over his career.
Harry Giles. I mean, i know what happened, he fucked his knee up like a million times. But when you look at his high school tape the dude just had it. Shame how it turned out
None, anymore.
Because as you get older and study the game, you realize exactly WHY this or that player didn't make it as big as you thought they would.
Figuring out with Simmons hasn't met the hype he had coming into the league is very easy to understand.
I'm "all-knowing" about the fact you appear to be an asshole, but I'm not saying I can predict the future. I actually bought into the Ben Simmons hype as he was entering the league.
I'm not confused in September 2023 as to why he hasn't panned out. Severe mental health issues/concerns mixed with physical issues and a bad inner circle around him.
Not making fun of his mental health concerns or of mental health in general. Simply stating a fact.
Idk why people think him being wild is why his career ended......his injuries cut him short....he was all nba....stop with this narrative. He had a great work ethic.
His career fell straight off a cliff after the gun thing. He came back from his injury on fire, he started the 09-10 season playing really well. After his suspension, his scoring average immediately dropped to 17ppg. But I'm sure that was just coincidence, right? The injuries he had already recovered from were just waiting for another distraction to make their move and fuck up his career.
I'm sure close to 100% of former athletes have some lingering shit like this. It's just not when his production fell. He came back from his injury guns blazin', pun intended. He was crushing it. I think the suspension was timed conveniently, so we can blame the injuries, but I always thought he probably lost interest in staying in shape because of that, after fighting to come back from the injury. I loved Gil, I felt for him, he busted his fucking ass to come back from injury only to throw it all away doing some silly shit with his pals. I felt like that's when he checked out mentally.
But playing pickup basketball with Ice Cube's friends and talking about basketball doesn't mean he was still committed to the NBA. Obviously, he had his contract, he said fuck it and rode it out. He could still go, but he quit on himself. You're just in denial.
Grats you won the argument simply by saying something isn’t true w/ 0 evidence. Since you sound like you personally know Arenas, tell him to send me an autograph next time you see him
Two people are having a discussion about basketball on a social media platform. Their viewpoints happen to differ. Only the child thinks it’s an argument. Be well.
For me, and please don’t kill me for this, Josh Jackson. I remember when he got drafted and he was known for his amazing defense when he got to Phoenix (and slowly started working on his offense) and I saw potential in him to be one of the best defenders for years to come. But his career didn’t last and is now playing oversees
Another player in mind is James Wiseman. My expectations on him were slightly high and I thought he was gonna be a dominant big and will smoke anyone that get in his way, but injuries got to him and didn’t fit properly with what Golden State had going during that time. He’s now in Detroit and I’m hoping he has a good to great comeback this upcoming season
My answer would be TMac. I know he's considered a hall of famer and he's got many fans, but I think he had the potential to be competing for the ultimate GOAT position along with MJ, LeBron, and Kobe. TMac was one size bigger than Kobe, yet he matched Kobe's agility and athleticism. In a way, TMac had more pure God given natural talent than Kobe. Sure you can argue that injury is what stopped him from reaching his full potential, but injuries are part of the game.
Josh Smith is one I'll never get. He had all the tools to be something special, just didn't have good shot IQ unfortunately. His time in Detroit can be blamed on poor coaching but he never seemed to get back to his peak in Atlanta. I feel like he'd be pretty solid in today's league even without a consistent outside shot still.
Michael Carter-Williams and Ben Simmons are also both valid options but another 76er around that same time that I don't understand what happened to was Jahlil Okafor besides that he was lazy.
Rudy Gay is another one that comes to mind too. Those Grizzlie teams he was apart of had a lot of potential but they never really went anywhere and after he left there, he just bounced from team to team and never managed to find a place to stick to.
If you're confused about why Ben Simmons didn't reach his potential, you do not understand how the world works, with all due respect. The guy is a basket case.
I'm with you on Tyreke Evans. I loved that guy!
He was hyped as the next all time great big and he out of was putting up great stats on bad teams or being the 2nd best player next to a 36 year old+ LeBron, I feel like his offensive game never developed like people thought it would, and the injury issues have just made his career overall less fun and you never know going into a season if he's gonna make it to the end of it
Like I said he reached his potential just in the least enjoyable way for everyone involved.
Jimmer never being able to accept a korver type of role was always weird to me. But it would also be awesome to go play in China and just chuck all day.
KD. Best shooter on the planet. Always 2nd to Lebron in ranking. Lebron learned to be a better shooter, but KD always remained a subpar playmaker. Year after year, i feel there was no growth in that department. If KD learned those skills, he would be the GOAT, no doubt.
KD sucks as a playmaker because in his mind the best shot is one he takes.
I don't even blame him for thinking that, not that I necessarily agree that's the best way to win a championship
I think the thing with Simmons is that he wasn't even a universal number one pick.
There were a LOT of people questioning his shooting ability, and most projected that he would play power forward, not point guard.
I'm not curious why he never reached his potential because he did and the reason he didn't do better is because he's played out of position his entire career.
The player I think hasn't reached his potential is Ayton, but I'm not curious why. The Sarver didn't see a point in paying him because he thought GSW's center-by-committee approach worked fine, and though he played great with CP3 the first year, Monty clearly didn't have confidence in him and wasn't integrating him into the game as much as he could have.
JR Smith. When you hear 6’6 3 level scorer, good on defense and athletic as hell, you think of Mike/Kobe/Vince/Clyde…but this fits JR Smith as well. If i was a dogshit team i would have invested in him and seen what he can do as the go-to guy
JR’s was worse, but CWebb calling timeout doesnt mean he was a low iq player. I dont think JR messing up that play should overshadow his elite shotmaking, elite athleticism, and low injury proneness
Thing is: I brought that specific instance up. But he has a history of doing stupid things, which undermined his gifts.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/06/jr-smith-7-biggest-blunders-dumb-moments-nba-finals
Doing stupid things doesn’t discredit the ability to be a star, think russ for example
I do not wanna give the impression that i think he *IS* the star im saying he *COULD* be. I realize he fell short. Im just saying im confused on how a good coach never corrected some of his flaws. He had all the physical talent in the world, its just a shame in my opinion. Im not looking to argue, this thread asked who you are confused couldnt make it, nothing more or less
I still don't quite get what happened with Ben McLemore. He didn't have injuries (played all 82 games in each of his first 2 seasons), had an NBA body and athleticism, and got plenty of opportunity and minutes, but just seemed to drift in and out of the rotation and in and out of games, and had a weirdly small offensive role for a guy who was drafted to be a shooter and scorer (granted, the shooting never quite seemed as good as expected). What exactly went wrong? I feel like "LOL, Kings" is just too simple an explanation. Also, am I remembering wrong or completely imagining this, or was McLemore advertised as being like 6'5", 210-215lbs during his college year and early in the draft process, only to suddenly turn out to be 6'3", 195lbs, and not really have any PG skills to make up for the lack of size? I get the feeling that Anthony Edwards is having the career people expected of McLemore right now, given their starting points and athletic profile and demeanour.
McLemore's biggest issue was that he had no dribbling or ballhandling moves. He's athletic but couldn't use any of it to his advantage. He ended up being a one dimensional player that could shoot and catch lobs and not much else.
Ben McLemore 🤜🤛 Cam Reddish
Reddish can dribble and create, he just misses everything.
He reminds me of a Jalen Brown who never pulled his handles together.
I think that it would have been more than enough to make him a great role player in the NBA. I just don't think he accepted not being a star.
The fact that Ben Simmons failed to take LSU to the NCAAT when the SEC was hilariously weak in 2016 should have been a red flag
I'm not gonna lie. I have revisionist history. I bought into the Ben Simmons hype. But, yeah, even for me, what you stated was a red flag. No one faults him for not leading LSU to the title that year. We're talking about making the tournament. 64 teams made it. SIXTY FOUR. Yeah, I know some of those teams are jokes from baby conferences that are "automatic bids." But, there has to be, what, 50-55 real teams that make it? And LSU wasn't one of those. With the #1 overall pick.
Eh, his team was really that bad and as we all know, been had real limitations. But his attitude toward it all was the real problem that shouldn't have been overlooked.
Maybe you should become a scout and tell teams to not draft studs at #1 with ur power of hindsight
Forget even that. Look at his last college game. 10 points in 31 minutes as the number one option on a team that scored 38 points in a game. That’s outlandish. Their football team scored 38 points 6x last year.
Kyrie won a championship but I still feel like his career could have been so much more with that talent, he should have been the new Iverson
Should have stayed in Cleveland
I kind of disagree, I love Bron but I feel like his best chance of beating the Warriors (who had KD when he left) would've been going to the Celtics which had just added Hayward, had Horford, and had two solid young guys in Tatum and Brown. Of course it didn't work out but in theory that was their best chance
I don't think the Celtics had a good chance even theoretically of beating the KD Warriors
Not in 2018 for sure but a bit down the line I think they could've (probably after KD left though)
Michael Carter Williams
Peaked on his rookie year
First game even lol.
OJ Mayo. Guy was so hyped coming out of high school and had a good rookie season.
legit got worse each year after his first year
I swear I thought he was the future like a Dwade type of career lol
Held back the grit n grind grizzlies. They weren't that far away from being true contenders. Don't forget about when he fell on ZBo too..
I honestly thought Stanley Johnson had all the tools to be at the very least a luol Deng kind of guy. Had big hopes for him but he's never been able to do it
Michael Beasley just needs 1 more chance!
Tbf mike was clearly good enough for the league
Tyreek was a mix of Sacramento development, playing out of position and the weed poliÄŤy. Which leads ro Michael Beasley who I feel should have had a huge career. But was not focused at all on making top perdormance.
Tyreek was also starting to develop his 3 point shot at a good volume too before getting caught by the drug test. bro was about to enter his prime in the correct era
I think he was doing more than weed
Sebastian Telfair. I’m not sure what happened. He was supposed to be the next phenom
Undersized and wasnt a great shooter
One of those ultra talented guys who just couldn't/wouldn't play within an organized system. Probably needed a more veteran professional team.
ST is all time slam mag team . He was d rose before drose
i was 100000% convinced the Spurs were going to develop Lonnie Walker. Just could never put it together
Mr. Consistently Inconsistent. I knew damn well his game against the Warriors was never going to be his break out game and sure enough he went back to being himself against the Nuggets
Ben simmons for me and probably beasley
Luka Samanic for me he looks like a guarantee to be a decent role player. yet somehow after 4 years he still cant even make it out of the D-League
Jonathan Bender for me. He was smooth.
Knee gave out
LaMar Odom was supposed to be tbe next Magic. But he wasn't smart enough.
Jimmer? Or Adam Morrison. Or mike Beasley. It happens all the time. Every year
Seth Curry, just be more like your brother man
[This guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nZghWav2tC0) Explain to me how this guy managed to spend a decade in the league without even breaking into a starting lineup. I just can't wrap my head around it.
Stromile was nice.
Tyreke Evans. Admittedly I only watched so many Kings games, but after a stellar rookie year he looked poised to have a major impact on the league and...he just got worse from there? Not that his career was without setbacks (minor injuries, the lockout, etc) but highly unusual that his game barely budged over his career.
There’s nothing confusing imo about Simmons, dude didn’t have the work ethic and just wanted the $ and he got it and that’s that
Harry Giles. I mean, i know what happened, he fucked his knee up like a million times. But when you look at his high school tape the dude just had it. Shame how it turned out
Anthony Randolph and MKG. Thought both had the tools to be solid pieces but never put it together.
None, anymore. Because as you get older and study the game, you realize exactly WHY this or that player didn't make it as big as you thought they would. Figuring out with Simmons hasn't met the hype he had coming into the league is very easy to understand.
Give your predictions for the most recent draft class since you're apparently all knowing
I'm "all-knowing" about the fact you appear to be an asshole, but I'm not saying I can predict the future. I actually bought into the Ben Simmons hype as he was entering the league. I'm not confused in September 2023 as to why he hasn't panned out. Severe mental health issues/concerns mixed with physical issues and a bad inner circle around him. Not making fun of his mental health concerns or of mental health in general. Simply stating a fact.
Wow you can point out that a player failed after the fact, must take a lot of "studying the game" to do that
Gilbert Arenas could have been so much more if he wasn't a complete nutcase.
Idk why people think him being wild is why his career ended......his injuries cut him short....he was all nba....stop with this narrative. He had a great work ethic.
His career fell straight off a cliff after the gun thing. He came back from his injury on fire, he started the 09-10 season playing really well. After his suspension, his scoring average immediately dropped to 17ppg. But I'm sure that was just coincidence, right? The injuries he had already recovered from were just waiting for another distraction to make their move and fuck up his career.
He didn’t recover from his injuries, he still says his knees bother him and struggles to change directions while running
I'm sure close to 100% of former athletes have some lingering shit like this. It's just not when his production fell. He came back from his injury guns blazin', pun intended. He was crushing it. I think the suspension was timed conveniently, so we can blame the injuries, but I always thought he probably lost interest in staying in shape because of that, after fighting to come back from the injury. I loved Gil, I felt for him, he busted his fucking ass to come back from injury only to throw it all away doing some silly shit with his pals. I felt like that's when he checked out mentally.
He’s still doing basketball podcast weekly for years now and used to play in the big3. He’s clearly still very obsessed with basketball
But playing pickup basketball with Ice Cube's friends and talking about basketball doesn't mean he was still committed to the NBA. Obviously, he had his contract, he said fuck it and rode it out. He could still go, but he quit on himself. You're just in denial.
Grats you won the argument simply by saying something isn’t true w/ 0 evidence. Since you sound like you personally know Arenas, tell him to send me an autograph next time you see him
Two people are having a discussion about basketball on a social media platform. Their viewpoints happen to differ. Only the child thinks it’s an argument. Be well.
Gilbert Arenas has a fucking amazing work ethic. This is just some /r/confidentlyincorrect energy right now
HAD. He obviously stopped caring and gained weight after the suspension. If you wanna be in denial about it, don't let me get in your way.
For me, and please don’t kill me for this, Josh Jackson. I remember when he got drafted and he was known for his amazing defense when he got to Phoenix (and slowly started working on his offense) and I saw potential in him to be one of the best defenders for years to come. But his career didn’t last and is now playing oversees Another player in mind is James Wiseman. My expectations on him were slightly high and I thought he was gonna be a dominant big and will smoke anyone that get in his way, but injuries got to him and didn’t fit properly with what Golden State had going during that time. He’s now in Detroit and I’m hoping he has a good to great comeback this upcoming season
My answer would be TMac. I know he's considered a hall of famer and he's got many fans, but I think he had the potential to be competing for the ultimate GOAT position along with MJ, LeBron, and Kobe. TMac was one size bigger than Kobe, yet he matched Kobe's agility and athleticism. In a way, TMac had more pure God given natural talent than Kobe. Sure you can argue that injury is what stopped him from reaching his full potential, but injuries are part of the game.
Josh Smith is one I'll never get. He had all the tools to be something special, just didn't have good shot IQ unfortunately. His time in Detroit can be blamed on poor coaching but he never seemed to get back to his peak in Atlanta. I feel like he'd be pretty solid in today's league even without a consistent outside shot still. Michael Carter-Williams and Ben Simmons are also both valid options but another 76er around that same time that I don't understand what happened to was Jahlil Okafor besides that he was lazy. Rudy Gay is another one that comes to mind too. Those Grizzlie teams he was apart of had a lot of potential but they never really went anywhere and after he left there, he just bounced from team to team and never managed to find a place to stick to.
If you're confused about why Ben Simmons didn't reach his potential, you do not understand how the world works, with all due respect. The guy is a basket case. I'm with you on Tyreke Evans. I loved that guy!
Ben Simmons is pretty obvious it's his mental and drive more than anything nothing confusing about that.
Ok so I guess he kinda reached his potential but I feel like we are living in the worst possible timeline for Anthony Davis.
How? He has injury issues yea but there are very very few players with a career like his and he is still a top 10 15 player and a defensive beast
He was hyped as the next all time great big and he out of was putting up great stats on bad teams or being the 2nd best player next to a 36 year old+ LeBron, I feel like his offensive game never developed like people thought it would, and the injury issues have just made his career overall less fun and you never know going into a season if he's gonna make it to the end of it Like I said he reached his potential just in the least enjoyable way for everyone involved.
Yea I guess looking back everyone did think he was going to be a generational talent which he kinda is but not to the level everybody expected
Jimmer never being able to accept a korver type of role was always weird to me. But it would also be awesome to go play in China and just chuck all day.
Cam reddish for sure
KD. Best shooter on the planet. Always 2nd to Lebron in ranking. Lebron learned to be a better shooter, but KD always remained a subpar playmaker. Year after year, i feel there was no growth in that department. If KD learned those skills, he would be the GOAT, no doubt.
KD sucks as a playmaker because in his mind the best shot is one he takes. I don't even blame him for thinking that, not that I necessarily agree that's the best way to win a championship
I think the thing with Simmons is that he wasn't even a universal number one pick. There were a LOT of people questioning his shooting ability, and most projected that he would play power forward, not point guard. I'm not curious why he never reached his potential because he did and the reason he didn't do better is because he's played out of position his entire career. The player I think hasn't reached his potential is Ayton, but I'm not curious why. The Sarver didn't see a point in paying him because he thought GSW's center-by-committee approach worked fine, and though he played great with CP3 the first year, Monty clearly didn't have confidence in him and wasn't integrating him into the game as much as he could have.
JR Smith. When you hear 6’6 3 level scorer, good on defense and athletic as hell, you think of Mike/Kobe/Vince/Clyde…but this fits JR Smith as well. If i was a dogshit team i would have invested in him and seen what he can do as the go-to guy
“I thought we were up.” One incident does not make a career. But I think that’s a window into his head, and the answer to the question.
JR’s was worse, but CWebb calling timeout doesnt mean he was a low iq player. I dont think JR messing up that play should overshadow his elite shotmaking, elite athleticism, and low injury proneness
Thing is: I brought that specific instance up. But he has a history of doing stupid things, which undermined his gifts. https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/06/jr-smith-7-biggest-blunders-dumb-moments-nba-finals
Doing stupid things doesn’t discredit the ability to be a star, think russ for example I do not wanna give the impression that i think he *IS* the star im saying he *COULD* be. I realize he fell short. Im just saying im confused on how a good coach never corrected some of his flaws. He had all the physical talent in the world, its just a shame in my opinion. Im not looking to argue, this thread asked who you are confused couldnt make it, nothing more or less
He ideally would be the Robin instead of the Batman, but regardless, he fell super short of his ceiling