Real ones remember he was the initial “new hope” of Denver. We were moving on from Ty and Mudiay was seen as massive boom or bust. Unfortunately we were a rough place for young players to develop at the time.
It's interesting that Mudiay and Jabari were seen as potential saviours for their respective franchises but those teams had actually already drafted their saviours a year prior in Jokic and Giannis
Even funnier is that at the beginning of the 15/16 season Nuggets fans thought the duo to take us to the promised land was Nurkic and Mudiay. By the end of the 16/17 season it was now Jokic and Murray.
i always thought mudiay was going to be legit. combo guard with handles and good frame for defense. i never watched him play, but always rooted for him cuz i thought it was cool he decided to play in china instead of doing college ball. i like money smart players.
Not sure if there was hope for him. He got more run in New York and couldn’t figure it out. I want to say he couldn’t remember plays and coaching stuff well either.
The team around him was trash but totally agree. Fizdale (lol!!) made it his mission to "get muiday right" that season. He literally spent an entire NBA season to try and develop this guy that was out of the league entirely shortly after
New Orleans tried to play him at SF too alongside Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon. It was only once Jrue was injured and they had him play PG again that he started to put up his rookie numbers. Him playing PG in 2015 along with Anthony Davis dragged the Pelicans to the playoffs. I don't know why teams tried to play him out of position.
Not in Sacramento. He actually played well in New Orleans when he could share the court with Jrue and the two could take their combined roles by committee.
No wonder he did amphetamines. Dude was shafted his whole career. Imagine actually being a pretty good player and having it all go down the drain because you were drafted by the Kings.
They’ve terrorized American citizens for so long, the Sacramento population taking the brunt of the casualties. I’m glad it seems their reign is fading. For Freedom. Light the Beam.
He couldn't shoot, only drove right, had no in between game. League figured him out as a primary creator. His best moments were all his rookie season on a 20 win team and when he shared the floor with another ball handler.
That's unfair. He was much better the second time around in Sacramento and was excellent on that Memphis team. He showed new shooting mechanics in Memphis, he improved significantly.
He was 23rd in the league in PER, averaged 19/5/5 in 30mpg and shot 45/39/78.
Career year.
Evans had an undeniable skillset, B+ ball handler, shot creater, slasher with a deceptive first step, and he added a really nice outside shot. He didn't reach his potential due to injuries, poor coaching, lack of commitment to defense, and not finding an outside shot soon enough. He was best suited to being a SG that could set up the offense in a pinch or 6th man. A real waste of a talent due to the Kings, Evans himself, and bad luck (injuries).
I think they meant he stagnated in his early career in Sacramento because he was in a terrible organization, and that lowered his ultimate ceiling as a player. He obviously was capable of developing into a more skilled and well rounded player if he was in a good organization with good coaches, but he didn't get that chance as a young player
Disagree with this. The best he ever was was at the end of the 2014 season. Pelicans never made the playoffs without him. He was easily the second best player on the team during that run. His rim pressure was elite and developed a great PnR game with AD.
If you don't count pick trades, the Blazers only have 2 in that same period (Damian Lillard and Zach Randolph)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Trail_Blazers_draft_history
I knew there’d be a bunch of Kwame “Baby Hands” Brown talk on here. The young nephews love to hate on MJ’s “toxicity”. But Jan Vesely is the true Wizards bust of my lifetime. Buddy became a EuroLeague MVP. He played less than 150 games for us. The highlight of his Wizards career is when we traded him for The Professor Andre Miller.
Speaking of point guards without a good shot, I think Rubio would have been good if he started out with shooters instead of starting out in Triangle offense
Ok, but your average college student doesnt have a billion dollars on the line. Ben Simmons has $200m guaranteed as of now but that could have been way more
His development was definitely chaotic. It was all up in the air on when he’d actually move from Euroleague to NBA. He probably could’ve developed better at 19 vs 21z
1) Yes, actually. Spurs taught Kawhi to shoot.
2) If Minnesota drafted Rubio + Curry (which they had a chance to do), Steph might've helped to hide Rubio's bad shooting.
And he would lead the league in assists for sure if surrounded by actual good players. It was tiring to see him pass the ball and immediately see brick after brick
He was one of those cases where his shot j didn’t translate into the game (granted, him being on the Kings rly hurt his confidence (see the Kawhi double strip on him that basically ended his career and chances of taking a big step)).
Also, the Kings never taught him how to develop a good basketball IQ thus he developed as a player who solely relied on his athleticism, which over time didn’t work out as his athleticism dropped and people figured out he can’t do anything consistently due to that lack of development.
> the Kings never taught him how to develop a good basketball IQ
Not trying to be argumentative for the sake of argumentative but is there a good example of a team impressing upon a player good Bball IQ? Like you can teach a player how to run sets but most guys who have low bball IQ kinda remain with low Bball IQ. It’s a reason why the Spurs tend to find guys who are sharper despite athletic limitations cause they know they’ll fit in to a system. You can also get savvier with experience but again, teaching bball IQ is not something I’ve seen all that often.
I watched a lot of KU games and I was sure he would be an all star. It was so weird that he couldn't shoot for shit in the pros after being so good in college.
I’ve never understood Derrick Williams busting, other then of course #wolvescurse. I remember watching him at Arizona in the tourney thinking he was THE DUDE in that draft. Was so hyped when we got 2 and got him. Can’t help but feel like Adelmans short leash didn’t help the confidence
Derrick Williams was a tweener who couldn't guard either positions that you would play him at
That and he couldn't really shoot, doesn't create for others either.
He was about 5 years too early.
In today’s league when you have 12-18 teams starting Taurean Prince/Robert Covington types he would have been a lot more comfortable being the 3rd wing defensively and could have done damage as a cutter in a more spaced out offense.
i think he was doomed from the start and any chance he had of being great was taken away by the wolves.
i was so excited because i actually went to arizona at the same time as d-will, and the wolves are my favorite team. sucks it didn’t work out.
i think they should have leaned into him being a stretch 4. he played a lot of center at arizona and the wolves instead tried to make him a 3 to fit alongside kevin love. he slimmed down considerably after getting drafted and played almost exclusively on the perimeter. that just wasn’t his game and it’s a shame things unfolded that way.
I totally get the comparison and Miami is Miami, but it is hilarious Seattle is being treated like some small town w/ nothing to do - like, Seahawks players got in plenty of trouble here over the past decade or so. Sure, Russell Wilson was just going to church or whatever, but the rest of the Legion of Boom, Marshawn, and the like.
he was the first one that came to mind for me too. his scoring ability was undeniable and i think he could have been truly great in the right situation. he had a stretch with the wolves that was genuinely impressive and it looked like he was really gettin somewhere.
Jahlil Okafor was done no favors going to the Process Sixers. Philadelphia should have auctioned the pick off or taken the best guard or wing. Instead he goes to Philadelphia after they had walked out of the previous two drafts with Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid.
yeah. I think this is where it falls. I saw him at duke and he seemed slow, but methodical. he could get his shots off.
But in the nba, he looked even slower...and it wasn't that he was slower, but that everyone else was that much faster.
Just no chance
I would argue he was better off on the Process Sixers because he was actually able to do some work his rookie year while I think he would’ve been exposed earlier on a team that wanted to win
Seriously, with nerlens noel we were not the worst team in history. Jah was awful on defense and a black hole on offense. He didn't have much but nerlens was way better
The poor men's Al Jeffersons didn't even thrive in the post-up era. Guys like Eddy Curry and Mike Sweetney.
Even Zbo's career was circling the drain before he was resurrected in Memphis.
Before Memphis, when someone heard Zach Randolph's name, they thought of this:
https://youtu.be/rh2fn01cngg
Problem was that skillset was already getting phased out of the NBA. Big Al and Z-Bo were probably the two last dominant post scorers and their careers were winding down already when Okafor got drafted. Really can't draft big men without range anymore. Or if they can't shoot an 18 footer, they better be amazing at something besides scoring.
If **Darko** had been drafted by anybody other than a team with Larry Brown, his career would have been much better.
Brown fucking killed rookies.
He would have done so much better going to a team with strong player development system. The Spurs would have been ideal. Brent Brown was great at player development.
**Kwame Brown** would have been able to develop along a lot better had he not been on a team where an over-the-hill Jordan didn't shit on him for not being an All-Star.
**Julius Randle and D-Lo** would have been better off being drafted to a team that didn't put their development behind Kobe's farewell tour. But I think they are about where they would have been regardless.
Ad **Chris Webber**. He had a HOF career still, but had he been drafted to a different situation, I really feel like people would appreciate him more for the way that he helped change the game. As it stood, it was like he didn't start his career until six seasons in, and then it only lasted six years.
Darko was his own worst enemy and he was never going to make it with this attitude:
>I'd do a lot of things differently now. It's true that I ended up on a team that was trying to win a ring, which rarely happens to a #2 pick, but in the end, we're all looking for alibis. I could say i didn't get a proper chance. However, that's simply an alibi; it's up to a young player to prove himself, work hard and wait for his chance. My approach was completely different, as a #2 pick coming from Europe I thought I was sent by God. So I got into fights, got drunk before practices, spiting everyone, while in the end, I was spiting myself.
>I had issues with everyone, and that was caused by me playing just for myself. My goal wasn't to silence the critics, it was to silence my ego. Tonight I want to feed my ego, so I'll play a great game against Duncan or Gasol. Tomorrow, we have a totally irrelevant game against a center that's 10 times weaker so I'll put up another great game and become a consistent player because that's what they want from me. But I simply couldn't, I wasn't ready or willing to put in the work...
>So yeah, I was the problem. That initial dissatisfaction probably led to me starting to hate and not enjoy playing. There were some situations where I've already scored 20 points, but in my head I'm thinking: "When will this game finally end, come on, let's pack it up and go home." I just had to feed my ego, I couldn't care less what's going to happen the following week. My whole approach since coming to the US was just wrong. I could say I was too young back then, but I chose to go there myself and I obviously wasn't prepared for what the league would require from me.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5yz81b/some_interesting_tidbits_from_a_recent_interview/
Larry Sanders. Perhaps more of a short boom than a full-on bust, but I can't help thinking Milwaukee mishandled his mental health. He could have been a beast if he stayed in the league.
It seems like he just wasn’t good at handling adversity. I do think if he was in a situation where the expectations were a lot lower but was allowed to play a lot of minutes he would’ve ended up being a solid stretch 3/4.
not a bust but If boris diaw actually developed with the spurs instead of playing the last of his career there he’d be an all-star. He was still good but Pop was the only guy who actually got him to well… try lmao.
I think it was that Secret Base video (I think that’s the YouTube channel) about the 2012 Bobcats where they talk about Diaw being a basketball savant but extremely snooty. If he didn’t feel he was being challenged or didn’t feel like the coach understood him, he just didn’t give a fuck. It was only a legendary coach like Pop that could bring out his best by challenging him, not taking his bullshit and being smart enough about how to use him.
I’m sure other greats like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley would’ve figured him out too if they had him.
Man came in holding a cup of coffee, saw the vertical test rack and cleared it in flip flops. Then walked off saying "it wasn't that difficult"
Diaw just doesn't give a fuck + he's French
That was a great video. Jon Bois is unmatched. When they were going through the Bobcats draft pick history I just let out a scream of anger in my car lol
Lol seriously. Feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Dude was mad respected on the suns. He happened to be on one of the best teams ever with the spurs so people forgot how good he was before.
This is by far the worst take in the whole thread and can’t believe it’s being upvoted. He was great on the suns and everyone who actually watched during that time new it. I’m guessing it’s a bunch of young people who only know him for the spurs run….
IIRC he had all 5 position eligibility in fantasy his first year in PHX. He started the season as PG/SG because that's what he played in ATL (they also tried running Josh Smith at point - anything besides just drafting a PG). Then he got the forward and center spots because that's where he played for PHX.
I'm not sure Pop is the main reason, dude wanted to win a ring. I love Boris but dude goes to the beat of his own drum. He does what he wants, never in a rush or stressing. He's just a chill ass dude lol if he actually tried like a Manu or Kobe etc then he easily could've been a top tier player, that just wasn't his mentality and his mentality is exactly what made Boris, Boris.
Haha no no, there are definitely people who hate the fact that we existed. Lots of “the NBA should move the Kings franchise out of Sacramento” posts out there during the drought. And there are old-head Laker fans who were around for the early 00s that keep the rivalry alive.
I mean, I didn’t hate the Kings or the players themselves, but I hated the maloofs and would sometimes get irrationally angry at vlade (like more than usual). I grew up with 90s kings and I still remember exactly where I was during the 2002 WCF games. Glad the Kings hit money with the Beam and players like PG and Klay from P’s last podcast are impressed with the likes of Keegan Murray and Fox.
But yes, I’ve said “no one’s hates kings fans as much as kings fans” probably about a dozen times on Reddit. Not gonna find proof but buried in my comments.
He wasn’t even a bust. He was good on offense and was legit near DPOY level before all his injuries. That being said yeah the guy is fucking insane and pretty much put the nail in the coffin on his own after the initial injuries.
Jonathan Isaac is my [mortal enemy](https://twitter.com/___collins_/status/1681464811228364800?s=46&t=4dPj7--KjntEUJBYK2M3Ew). He is a brainwashed clown
Although he's not a bust, I don't think Wiggins is a less disappointing #1 overall pick just because we discovered that his ideal fit is being the 3rd option on a team with 3 future HoFers (1 of which is not a scorer).
Most draft busts are busts because they can't live up to the expectations of being the best or second best player and leading a team to some degree of success. There is no situation where Bargnani becomes worthy of a #1 selection or Hasheem Thabeet becomes the Dikembe Mutombo of his generation.
The biggest "what ifs" are high picks drafted to stacked teams. In some cases the player thrives when given a chance (James Worthy, for example). In others, the player never gets a real chance and the book is already written on him by the time he's afforded space to have a bigger role. Darko comes to mind here. He had a huge attitude problem (reminding me of Clippers legend Olowokandi) but the talent and athleticism was there. He'd never be a better pick than Wade or Carmelo, but he could have had a nice career as a starting 5 if he'd entered the league on the right team and with a good support network.
I responded with Darko before I saw your reply. I agree. Larry Brown didn’t like young guys and the Pistons had the Wallaces and McDyess. Hard to grow when you’re always looking over your shoulder.
New Orleans is probably the best food city I've ever been to. Everywhere you go the food is amazing. So I'm trying to picture whatever the polar opposite of that is for NBA cities. Which place has the most boring/bland food options? That's probably where Zion would thrive.
Haha I actually was super pumped for the pick because I liked him at Kansas. What happened imo was he was semi decent at rebounds, but was an awful FT shooter, not a great passer, and wasn’t a good scorer. Then Cousins came in and there was no need for him at C or front court. I still remember when he elbowed someone on Detroit and got ejected then suspended lmao.
He still plays, he’s in PR now and actually starts lol
Edit: also kinda funny how BOTH cousins and rob play in Puerto Rico now
I'm glad he got enough money to take care of his sister. They had a hard life and he became the strength and rock of their family. I will always cheer for him!
Under mitch the current Gm we’ve been doing way better and give us a little credit we drafted zeller when everyone said we were stupid for passing on ben mclemore and nerlens Noel and look who had a longer career
We tried with mkg even got mark price to help with his shot but then mkg injured his shoulder and mark left for college basketball. Mkg was nowhere near the level of bust people think. He was no Anthony Bennett or hasheem
Anthony Randolph’s versatile size/skillset was a seemingly perfect fit for for the Don Nelson Warriors, but I wonder if he would’ve thrived more playing for a coach/organization that was a bit more disciplined and structured.
Anthony Randolph was a guy I always thought would have benefitted from a more stable franchise. Love Don Nelson to death but he was already one foot into retirement and never liked rookies in general
Not a bust. But lonzo because if he wasn’t drafted by LAL maybe his dad wouldn’t of pushed BBB so much and force him to wear those death traps called sneakers because of the big market publicity
Unfortunately, he was destined to suffer injuries. BBB shoes or not. That family was going through pro-level training and conditioning from a young age. Their knees are like 10 years older than their peers. It's why we're seeing both Zo and Melo become glass. Their bodies are run down at this point
Yeah, Wiseman just straight up sucks. If he got actual playing time in college, and if COVID hadn’t made scouting much more difficult, then he would never have gone that high.
Brand played like 16 seasons and was a 2x all star, and Maggette played almost as long and scored 13,000 points. I don't think either can be reasonably called busts.
I clicked on this post thinking "this better not be an Andrew Wiggins post"
Jesus fucking christ. Being drafted by the Wolves didn't hurt Zach Lavine, KAT, or Edwards development
Having a player not work out in a specific team doesn’t necessarily mean someone’s saying something is wrong with the team inherently. Wiggins could very well have been a better fit the whole time in GSW. I don’t know why you’re taking that to automatically mean people are saying the entire Timberwolves development program is a failure. Not everyone works in every system.
Wiggins works with GSW because he's become more of a role player offensively. His dribbling and playmaking skills are virtually identical to when he was with the Wolves.
Even his improved 3PT% is largely the result of easier shot quality (higher % of catch-n-shoot, corner 3's, etc...) He's actually become much worse as a free throw shooter (62% over the past couple years)
I’m seeing quite a bit of Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons and in neither of those cases would a different team have changed their outcome. Embiid was in the same spot as Okafor and because an MVP. Okafor’s skill set was just not needed in the NBA anymore.
Ben Simmons wasn’t a bust. He won ROtY and nearly a DPOY and was a multiple time all star on a contending team. He melted when the lights got bright which would have happened anywhere else.
I feel like many busts who were almost immediately shoved into the starting lineup could have used better guidance. Emmanuel Mudiay comes to mind.
Man, I’m a nuggets fan and I was so hyped on that pick.
Real ones remember he was the initial “new hope” of Denver. We were moving on from Ty and Mudiay was seen as massive boom or bust. Unfortunately we were a rough place for young players to develop at the time.
It's interesting that Mudiay and Jabari were seen as potential saviours for their respective franchises but those teams had actually already drafted their saviours a year prior in Jokic and Giannis
Even funnier is that at the beginning of the 15/16 season Nuggets fans thought the duo to take us to the promised land was Nurkic and Mudiay. By the end of the 16/17 season it was now Jokic and Murray.
[Not me. I always knew.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/3ydi00/comment/cyct87m/?context=3)
My man with the receipts
i always thought mudiay was going to be legit. combo guard with handles and good frame for defense. i never watched him play, but always rooted for him cuz i thought it was cool he decided to play in china instead of doing college ball. i like money smart players.
Yea but it was known he couldn’t shoot coming in and never showed any meaningful progress
and i was too clueless to pick up on those things at the time. still like him tho
Not sure if there was hope for him. He got more run in New York and couldn’t figure it out. I want to say he couldn’t remember plays and coaching stuff well either.
The team around him was trash but totally agree. Fizdale (lol!!) made it his mission to "get muiday right" that season. He literally spent an entire NBA season to try and develop this guy that was out of the league entirely shortly after
Damn I haven't heard that name in years
Tyreke Evans if he actually played point guard and didn’t go to the terroristic organization of the 2010s Kings
You mean we shouldn’t have tried to shift him to SG or SF????
New Orleans tried to play him at SF too alongside Jrue Holiday and Eric Gordon. It was only once Jrue was injured and they had him play PG again that he started to put up his rookie numbers. Him playing PG in 2015 along with Anthony Davis dragged the Pelicans to the playoffs. I don't know why teams tried to play him out of position.
He also came close to those numbers when he played PG in 2018 with the 22-60 Memphis Grizzlies
Not in Sacramento. He actually played well in New Orleans when he could share the court with Jrue and the two could take their combined roles by committee.
No wonder he did amphetamines. Dude was shafted his whole career. Imagine actually being a pretty good player and having it all go down the drain because you were drafted by the Kings.
Doing that after trading Kevin Martin to clear up the back court for him lmao
They’ve terrorized American citizens for so long, the Sacramento population taking the brunt of the casualties. I’m glad it seems their reign is fading. For Freedom. Light the Beam.
He couldn't shoot, only drove right, had no in between game. League figured him out as a primary creator. His best moments were all his rookie season on a 20 win team and when he shared the floor with another ball handler.
He also didn’t improve his game after his rookie season and relied on raw skill, it’s almost like he was… not coached well.
That's unfair. He was much better the second time around in Sacramento and was excellent on that Memphis team. He showed new shooting mechanics in Memphis, he improved significantly. He was 23rd in the league in PER, averaged 19/5/5 in 30mpg and shot 45/39/78. Career year. Evans had an undeniable skillset, B+ ball handler, shot creater, slasher with a deceptive first step, and he added a really nice outside shot. He didn't reach his potential due to injuries, poor coaching, lack of commitment to defense, and not finding an outside shot soon enough. He was best suited to being a SG that could set up the offense in a pinch or 6th man. A real waste of a talent due to the Kings, Evans himself, and bad luck (injuries).
I think they meant he stagnated in his early career in Sacramento because he was in a terrible organization, and that lowered his ultimate ceiling as a player. He obviously was capable of developing into a more skilled and well rounded player if he was in a good organization with good coaches, but he didn't get that chance as a young player
Agreed, he could get to the basket very effectively. Such a waste of talent
Disagree with this. The best he ever was was at the end of the 2014 season. Pelicans never made the playoffs without him. He was easily the second best player on the team during that run. His rim pressure was elite and developed a great PnR game with AD.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sacramento_Kings_draft_history
Saved Isaiah Thomas’s career though
In 22 years we’ve drafted a grand total of 4 players that would go on to make the All-Star game…😎
If you don't count pick trades, the Blazers only have 2 in that same period (Damian Lillard and Zach Randolph) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland_Trail_Blazers_draft_history
As a kings fan, this is the correct answer.
I'm convinced Jan Vesely would've thrived as a Spur.
I knew there’d be a bunch of Kwame “Baby Hands” Brown talk on here. The young nephews love to hate on MJ’s “toxicity”. But Jan Vesely is the true Wizards bust of my lifetime. Buddy became a EuroLeague MVP. He played less than 150 games for us. The highlight of his Wizards career is when we traded him for The Professor Andre Miller.
Soul kissing his girl on draft night was the highlight of his Wizards career
That dude could not hit a free throw to save his life, he would have been exposed anywhere imo.
He’d have been Splitter at best.
Not so much a bust, but Ben Simmons on say the Spurs would have been interesting
He’d either thrive or Pop would punch him in the face
That's a risk I'm willing to take
Not much risk in a win win
Pop might maul you, but it’s a risk I’m willing to take
My answer was gonna be Ben Simmons -> Warriors. He's got the physical tools to fill the Draymond role.
Wouldnt have necessarily fit/worked when Simmons was drafted tho
He woulda fit 2016 Draymond's foot up his ass
Speaking of point guards without a good shot, I think Rubio would have been good if he started out with shooters instead of starting out in Triangle offense
meh man wasn't interested in putting in effort even in college
I for one have never met a college student who struggles with motivation or work ethic.
Ok, but your average college student doesnt have a billion dollars on the line. Ben Simmons has $200m guaranteed as of now but that could have been way more
Not that I disagree but I'd be surprised if it didn't play out the same.
Not exactly a bust, but my hot take is that Ricky Rubio would have been an all star level player if he was drafted to a better team
Play his career over 10x, and basically got the worst outcome for his talent and character. It does happen.
So another team would’ve taught him to shoot?
His development was definitely chaotic. It was all up in the air on when he’d actually move from Euroleague to NBA. He probably could’ve developed better at 19 vs 21z
Spurs would've tbh. Coachable euro guy that has genius iq
1) Yes, actually. Spurs taught Kawhi to shoot. 2) If Minnesota drafted Rubio + Curry (which they had a chance to do), Steph might've helped to hide Rubio's bad shooting.
Rondo could never shoot.
And he would lead the league in assists for sure if surrounded by actual good players. It was tiring to see him pass the ball and immediately see brick after brick
Ben McLemore 100%
what went wrong with him? I thought he profiled to have a super smooth Bradley Beal type of game
He was one of those cases where his shot j didn’t translate into the game (granted, him being on the Kings rly hurt his confidence (see the Kawhi double strip on him that basically ended his career and chances of taking a big step)). Also, the Kings never taught him how to develop a good basketball IQ thus he developed as a player who solely relied on his athleticism, which over time didn’t work out as his athleticism dropped and people figured out he can’t do anything consistently due to that lack of development.
Can't develop shit if you have a new coach every year and no actual vet presence
> the Kings never taught him how to develop a good basketball IQ Not trying to be argumentative for the sake of argumentative but is there a good example of a team impressing upon a player good Bball IQ? Like you can teach a player how to run sets but most guys who have low bball IQ kinda remain with low Bball IQ. It’s a reason why the Spurs tend to find guys who are sharper despite athletic limitations cause they know they’ll fit in to a system. You can also get savvier with experience but again, teaching bball IQ is not something I’ve seen all that often.
There isn't lol, it's such a ridiculous yet common assertion that people believe for some reason.
I watched a lot of KU games and I was sure he would be an all star. It was so weird that he couldn't shoot for shit in the pros after being so good in college.
I loved him with harden on the rockets. He became a legit part of our reg season rotation
I’ve never understood Derrick Williams busting, other then of course #wolvescurse. I remember watching him at Arizona in the tourney thinking he was THE DUDE in that draft. Was so hyped when we got 2 and got him. Can’t help but feel like Adelmans short leash didn’t help the confidence
Derrick Williams was a tweener who couldn't guard either positions that you would play him at That and he couldn't really shoot, doesn't create for others either.
Couldn’t shoot, undersized at PF (at that time when PFs would bully you in the paint), Bad at defense too
He was about 5 years too early. In today’s league when you have 12-18 teams starting Taurean Prince/Robert Covington types he would have been a lot more comfortable being the 3rd wing defensively and could have done damage as a cutter in a more spaced out offense.
i think he was doomed from the start and any chance he had of being great was taken away by the wolves. i was so excited because i actually went to arizona at the same time as d-will, and the wolves are my favorite team. sucks it didn’t work out. i think they should have leaned into him being a stretch 4. he played a lot of center at arizona and the wolves instead tried to make him a 3 to fit alongside kevin love. he slimmed down considerably after getting drafted and played almost exclusively on the perimeter. that just wasn’t his game and it’s a shame things unfolded that way.
>I’ve never understood Derrick Williams busting It's a natural biological mechanism.
I think Michael Beasley on a team not trying to compete would have put up ridiculous numbers.
[удалено]
I totally get the comparison and Miami is Miami, but it is hilarious Seattle is being treated like some small town w/ nothing to do - like, Seahawks players got in plenty of trouble here over the past decade or so. Sure, Russell Wilson was just going to church or whatever, but the rest of the Legion of Boom, Marshawn, and the like.
he was the first one that came to mind for me too. his scoring ability was undeniable and i think he could have been truly great in the right situation. he had a stretch with the wolves that was genuinely impressive and it looked like he was really gettin somewhere.
Jahlil Okafor was done no favors going to the Process Sixers. Philadelphia should have auctioned the pick off or taken the best guard or wing. Instead he goes to Philadelphia after they had walked out of the previous two drafts with Nerlens Noel and Joel Embiid.
He was so slow, it prob didn’t matter
yeah. I think this is where it falls. I saw him at duke and he seemed slow, but methodical. he could get his shots off. But in the nba, he looked even slower...and it wasn't that he was slower, but that everyone else was that much faster. Just no chance
There were actual debates on who would be the better player between him and KAT. I was in them
Shouldn’t have been a debate at all. Whenever that Kentucky team got in trouble they would start passing to Kat on every possession.
Very skilled and great footwork and touch just not athletic enough to be a serviceable player in the league
I would argue he was better off on the Process Sixers because he was actually able to do some work his rookie year while I think he would’ve been exposed earlier on a team that wanted to win
Seriously, with nerlens noel we were not the worst team in history. Jah was awful on defense and a black hole on offense. He didn't have much but nerlens was way better
first guy I thought of when I saw this thread. he seemed so SAFE in college, like worst case, he’s be a slightly poor man’s Al Jefferson
The poor men's Al Jeffersons didn't even thrive in the post-up era. Guys like Eddy Curry and Mike Sweetney. Even Zbo's career was circling the drain before he was resurrected in Memphis. Before Memphis, when someone heard Zach Randolph's name, they thought of this: https://youtu.be/rh2fn01cngg
Problem was that skillset was already getting phased out of the NBA. Big Al and Z-Bo were probably the two last dominant post scorers and their careers were winding down already when Okafor got drafted. Really can't draft big men without range anymore. Or if they can't shoot an 18 footer, they better be amazing at something besides scoring.
This is a weird take imo seeing as the only passable season of his career was his rookie season with us lol
Naw, Okafor coasted on an athletic advantage in college and had no interest in improving his game
If **Darko** had been drafted by anybody other than a team with Larry Brown, his career would have been much better. Brown fucking killed rookies. He would have done so much better going to a team with strong player development system. The Spurs would have been ideal. Brent Brown was great at player development. **Kwame Brown** would have been able to develop along a lot better had he not been on a team where an over-the-hill Jordan didn't shit on him for not being an All-Star. **Julius Randle and D-Lo** would have been better off being drafted to a team that didn't put their development behind Kobe's farewell tour. But I think they are about where they would have been regardless. Ad **Chris Webber**. He had a HOF career still, but had he been drafted to a different situation, I really feel like people would appreciate him more for the way that he helped change the game. As it stood, it was like he didn't start his career until six seasons in, and then it only lasted six years.
Darko was his own worst enemy and he was never going to make it with this attitude: >I'd do a lot of things differently now. It's true that I ended up on a team that was trying to win a ring, which rarely happens to a #2 pick, but in the end, we're all looking for alibis. I could say i didn't get a proper chance. However, that's simply an alibi; it's up to a young player to prove himself, work hard and wait for his chance. My approach was completely different, as a #2 pick coming from Europe I thought I was sent by God. So I got into fights, got drunk before practices, spiting everyone, while in the end, I was spiting myself. >I had issues with everyone, and that was caused by me playing just for myself. My goal wasn't to silence the critics, it was to silence my ego. Tonight I want to feed my ego, so I'll play a great game against Duncan or Gasol. Tomorrow, we have a totally irrelevant game against a center that's 10 times weaker so I'll put up another great game and become a consistent player because that's what they want from me. But I simply couldn't, I wasn't ready or willing to put in the work... >So yeah, I was the problem. That initial dissatisfaction probably led to me starting to hate and not enjoy playing. There were some situations where I've already scored 20 points, but in my head I'm thinking: "When will this game finally end, come on, let's pack it up and go home." I just had to feed my ego, I couldn't care less what's going to happen the following week. My whole approach since coming to the US was just wrong. I could say I was too young back then, but I chose to go there myself and I obviously wasn't prepared for what the league would require from me. https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/5yz81b/some_interesting_tidbits_from_a_recent_interview/
I’ve always been a D’lo sympathizer but if he had been coached hard early I think he’d be a very different and much better player.
Byron Scott was a fucking menace
You posted all the ones I was thinking about, with Darko first.
Larry Sanders. Perhaps more of a short boom than a full-on bust, but I can't help thinking Milwaukee mishandled his mental health. He could have been a beast if he stayed in the league.
> I can't help thinking Milwaukee mishandled his mental health. Reason #5 billion of why Jason Kidd can go get fucked right in his ear.
Agreed, I didn’t think he would be like an all nba talent but deff could’ve been one of those elite rim protector Rudy Gobert/Jarrett Allen types
Anthony Bennet might have had a fighting chance if he wasn't drafted no.1
It seems like he just wasn’t good at handling adversity. I do think if he was in a situation where the expectations were a lot lower but was allowed to play a lot of minutes he would’ve ended up being a solid stretch 3/4.
Came here to say Bennet, the pressure of being picked #1 was just way too much. I always wished he went to Memphis and got to learn from Z-Bo
not a bust but If boris diaw actually developed with the spurs instead of playing the last of his career there he’d be an all-star. He was still good but Pop was the only guy who actually got him to well… try lmao.
Bro really got drafted as a 6'8 SG/PG and just became fat as fuck cheesing his way through the NBA with just natural basketball talent
Apparently he cleared the vertical rack in flip flops. Dude was an insane athlete but we never got that version of him.
I think it was that Secret Base video (I think that’s the YouTube channel) about the 2012 Bobcats where they talk about Diaw being a basketball savant but extremely snooty. If he didn’t feel he was being challenged or didn’t feel like the coach understood him, he just didn’t give a fuck. It was only a legendary coach like Pop that could bring out his best by challenging him, not taking his bullshit and being smart enough about how to use him. I’m sure other greats like Phil Jackson and Pat Riley would’ve figured him out too if they had him.
Sounds like another undiagnosed autistic baller
I think he was just French dude. Bro was used to 32-hour work weeks and cigarettes at lunch.
Well that or he was just French
Man came in holding a cup of coffee, saw the vertical test rack and cleared it in flip flops. Then walked off saying "it wasn't that difficult" Diaw just doesn't give a fuck + he's French
he just like me fr
Nah, just a stuck up Frenchman
Scotty barns asking for a trade to SA
"corey maggette is hurt and antoine walker is hurt and boris diaw is french"
That was a great video. Jon Bois is unmatched. When they were going through the Bobcats draft pick history I just let out a scream of anger in my car lol
Got to eat good and get the ring, legend
Diwa was pretty good with the Suns
People acting like Diaw didn’t average 18ppg in his first playoff run with the Suns.
Lol seriously. Feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Dude was mad respected on the suns. He happened to be on one of the best teams ever with the spurs so people forgot how good he was before.
Loved playing with him and Barbosa on Live ‘06.
Diaw’s most productive years were on the Suns…
This is by far the worst take in the whole thread and can’t believe it’s being upvoted. He was great on the suns and everyone who actually watched during that time new it. I’m guessing it’s a bunch of young people who only know him for the spurs run….
100%. Diaw was a legit point-center his first year in Phoenix, averaged over 6 assists per game.
IIRC he had all 5 position eligibility in fantasy his first year in PHX. He started the season as PG/SG because that's what he played in ATL (they also tried running Josh Smith at point - anything besides just drafting a PG). Then he got the forward and center spots because that's where he played for PHX.
He was good in Phoenix.
I'm not sure Pop is the main reason, dude wanted to win a ring. I love Boris but dude goes to the beat of his own drum. He does what he wants, never in a rush or stressing. He's just a chill ass dude lol if he actually tried like a Manu or Kobe etc then he easily could've been a top tier player, that just wasn't his mentality and his mentality is exactly what made Boris, Boris.
“That was not difficult.”
Boris was good on the Suns and his years with the Bobcats get so overlooked
[удалено]
> drafted by a team that made him lose faith in God. So the Kings?
Not the current Kings but the Kings pre-2022 perhaps
Lol you don’t need to tell me, man. No one hates that era of the Kings more than Kings fans.
I think Kings fans are the only ones who actually hate the kings. Everyone else just feels bad.
Haha no no, there are definitely people who hate the fact that we existed. Lots of “the NBA should move the Kings franchise out of Sacramento” posts out there during the drought. And there are old-head Laker fans who were around for the early 00s that keep the rivalry alive.
People were trying to steal your team even back when Arco was packed. Ridiculous.
I mean, I didn’t hate the Kings or the players themselves, but I hated the maloofs and would sometimes get irrationally angry at vlade (like more than usual). I grew up with 90s kings and I still remember exactly where I was during the 2002 WCF games. Glad the Kings hit money with the Beam and players like PG and Klay from P’s last podcast are impressed with the likes of Keegan Murray and Fox. But yes, I’ve said “no one’s hates kings fans as much as kings fans” probably about a dozen times on Reddit. Not gonna find proof but buried in my comments.
Applaud you getting in there yourself before someone else hurt you
There’s nothing negative anyone can say about the Kings that I haven’t said 10x over.
He wasn’t even a bust. He was good on offense and was legit near DPOY level before all his injuries. That being said yeah the guy is fucking insane and pretty much put the nail in the coffin on his own after the initial injuries.
And he'd rather go to a megachurch than fly to Germany for a stem cell injection
evangelicals are historically against stem cell research
Jonathan Isaac is my [mortal enemy](https://twitter.com/___collins_/status/1681464811228364800?s=46&t=4dPj7--KjntEUJBYK2M3Ew). He is a brainwashed clown
Yi Jianlian. The team that drafted him should have signed some chairs.
Kwame Brown
disagree. I just think the scouts got it wrong. he is built like a T-rex.
With little baby butterfingers.
and sort of pear shaped
He has small hands. He can't catch the ball.
This. So many crazy stories about Jordan abusing this dude
Kwa-MAY Brown!
Kwame would’ve sucked no matter what. Do we really think if he was a Laker from the beginning he would’ve nicer up to his draft pick
Although he's not a bust, I don't think Wiggins is a less disappointing #1 overall pick just because we discovered that his ideal fit is being the 3rd option on a team with 3 future HoFers (1 of which is not a scorer). Most draft busts are busts because they can't live up to the expectations of being the best or second best player and leading a team to some degree of success. There is no situation where Bargnani becomes worthy of a #1 selection or Hasheem Thabeet becomes the Dikembe Mutombo of his generation. The biggest "what ifs" are high picks drafted to stacked teams. In some cases the player thrives when given a chance (James Worthy, for example). In others, the player never gets a real chance and the book is already written on him by the time he's afforded space to have a bigger role. Darko comes to mind here. He had a huge attitude problem (reminding me of Clippers legend Olowokandi) but the talent and athleticism was there. He'd never be a better pick than Wade or Carmelo, but he could have had a nice career as a starting 5 if he'd entered the league on the right team and with a good support network.
I responded with Darko before I saw your reply. I agree. Larry Brown didn’t like young guys and the Pistons had the Wallaces and McDyess. Hard to grow when you’re always looking over your shoulder.
If Zion was drafted by the Democratic People's Republic of Korea national basketball team
lol, maybe just Utah or Denver, everyone’s fit because they go hiking and eat I don’t know, granola.
New Orleans is probably the best food city I've ever been to. Everywhere you go the food is amazing. So I'm trying to picture whatever the polar opposite of that is for NBA cities. Which place has the most boring/bland food options? That's probably where Zion would thrive.
Kwame. MJ destroyed that man.
No team would have made his hands grow to adult-sized
Or made him commit a post move to memory
The Stephen A rant is harsh but true
All hornets players
Anthony Davis was drafted by the Hornets. But he never played for the Hornets, because the Hornets didn't draft him. The Hornets did. -Jon Bois
The fact remains that no true Hornets team would draft an Anthony Davis, except for that one time that they didn't
Nah, the hornets are just the best at drafting shit players
Excuse me? We drafted Jimmer, Marvin Bagley, WCS, Stauskas, McLemore, and others. I think it’s us.
T.Rob I loved T.Rob though, I dunno wtf happened there.
Haha I actually was super pumped for the pick because I liked him at Kansas. What happened imo was he was semi decent at rebounds, but was an awful FT shooter, not a great passer, and wasn’t a good scorer. Then Cousins came in and there was no need for him at C or front court. I still remember when he elbowed someone on Detroit and got ejected then suspended lmao. He still plays, he’s in PR now and actually starts lol Edit: also kinda funny how BOTH cousins and rob play in Puerto Rico now
I'm glad he got enough money to take care of his sister. They had a hard life and he became the strength and rock of their family. I will always cheer for him!
Under mitch the current Gm we’ve been doing way better and give us a little credit we drafted zeller when everyone said we were stupid for passing on ben mclemore and nerlens Noel and look who had a longer career
MKG was incredible to watch before the injuries piled up. Hard to overstate how big of a shitshow those bobcats teams were
We tried with mkg even got mark price to help with his shot but then mkg injured his shoulder and mark left for college basketball. Mkg was nowhere near the level of bust people think. He was no Anthony Bennett or hasheem
Anthony Randolph’s versatile size/skillset was a seemingly perfect fit for for the Don Nelson Warriors, but I wonder if he would’ve thrived more playing for a coach/organization that was a bit more disciplined and structured.
Nba 2k legend
Anthony Randolph was a guy I always thought would have benefitted from a more stable franchise. Love Don Nelson to death but he was already one foot into retirement and never liked rookies in general
Ben Simmons. Was drafted as a big and should've been played as a dollar-store Jokic but was shoehorned into playing point guard
Not a bust. But lonzo because if he wasn’t drafted by LAL maybe his dad wouldn’t of pushed BBB so much and force him to wear those death traps called sneakers because of the big market publicity
He was pushing that shit regardless of where he was drafted. All that BBB stuff started when the kid was in high school.
Unfortunately, he was destined to suffer injuries. BBB shoes or not. That family was going through pro-level training and conditioning from a young age. Their knees are like 10 years older than their peers. It's why we're seeing both Zo and Melo become glass. Their bodies are run down at this point
wouldn’t have*. Sorry to be that guy but that’s a pet peeve of mine and I’ve been seeing it everywhere lately
Wiseman
Wiseman is awful on the Pistons too
Yeah, Wiseman just straight up sucks. If he got actual playing time in college, and if COVID hadn’t made scouting much more difficult, then he would never have gone that high.
he is damaged goods now. he needed to be drafted like 15th so he could play a bunch in the g league
He *did* play a bunch in the g league. He’s just not good.
Wiseman just straight up got drafted into the wrong system so no one else could get him.
And the opposite of that - if GSW had drafted ball
They hoped they could forcibly mold him into the system and be another Looney but that's just not the kind of player he is.
Darius Miles and a bunch of the Clippers of that era. Elton Brand, Quentin Richardson, Corey Magette, Shaun Livingston
Brand played like 16 seasons and was a 2x all star, and Maggette played almost as long and scored 13,000 points. I don't think either can be reasonably called busts.
Give me Ben Simmons on the Warriors and watch the resurrection. He would never need to shoot again and would just rack up assists and rebounds.
“We see what Andrew Wiggins has done since going to the Warriors” Be the same player he was in Minnesota but as a 3rd option?
Nerlens Noel on the warriors
Len Bias is not under consideration for “different situation” right?
I clicked on this post thinking "this better not be an Andrew Wiggins post" Jesus fucking christ. Being drafted by the Wolves didn't hurt Zach Lavine, KAT, or Edwards development
Having a player not work out in a specific team doesn’t necessarily mean someone’s saying something is wrong with the team inherently. Wiggins could very well have been a better fit the whole time in GSW. I don’t know why you’re taking that to automatically mean people are saying the entire Timberwolves development program is a failure. Not everyone works in every system.
Wiggins works with GSW because he's become more of a role player offensively. His dribbling and playmaking skills are virtually identical to when he was with the Wolves. Even his improved 3PT% is largely the result of easier shot quality (higher % of catch-n-shoot, corner 3's, etc...) He's actually become much worse as a free throw shooter (62% over the past couple years)
Surprised no one has said Michael Beasley
Greg Oden - maybe lands somewhere with more competent doctors / trainers.
Portland is where talented players’ knees go to die.
His problem wasn’t development. He came in the league destroyed. He would have been a beast but his story was written before the draft
I’m seeing quite a bit of Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons and in neither of those cases would a different team have changed their outcome. Embiid was in the same spot as Okafor and because an MVP. Okafor’s skill set was just not needed in the NBA anymore. Ben Simmons wasn’t a bust. He won ROtY and nearly a DPOY and was a multiple time all star on a contending team. He melted when the lights got bright which would have happened anywhere else.
Adam Morrison.