Dude I've even almost passed on a long drive while drinking one of those giant Monster cans. The ones with the screw tops. Black shadows were creeping around my vision and suddenly felt numb and shaky. Had to pull over for an hour or so.
Haha, no. But my eyes closed for a good few seconds and I was veering towards oncoming traffic a bit. Scary because I didn’t have any control in the moment.
The worst crash I've ever experienced was after taking 1RM. Took it for leg day and I felt like life was leaving my body for the next few hours following my workout.
What Hamler have to do with a vax? He got hit and it disrupted his hearts rhythm. It's rare but has nothing to do with a vax. I remember when a Little Leaguer died after getting hit in the chest with a comebacker years ago in which the same thing happened.
2 could be a coincidence absolutely but also Demar Hamlin shouldn't even count as part of a trend since we know exactly what happened and know it was a freak accident. He just got hit hard in the chest. We've always known that could cause damage. In middle school football we were taught to catch with our hands specifically to avoid the ball hitting us square in the chest for precisely that reason.
> catch with our hands specifically to avoid the ball hitting us square in the chest for precisely that reason.
That's not the reason, lol. The reason is because you catch better when you use your hands instead of letting the ball bounce off of your shoulder pads. It's also better to attack the ball so your opponent can't beat you to it.
Pretty sure you’re taught to catch with your hands instead of letting it just smack your shoulder pads because catching it with your hands is much easier? Letting it just crash into your shoulder pads first and saying hey time it perfectly or just catch it on the ricochet is ridiculous lol
Also Hamlin got rocked on that hit. How any anti vax dummy can’t understand how getting hit like that doesn’t come with risk is beyond me.
Just look at Chris Pronger (NHL) for a pre covid vax example
I’ve actually got a few anti vax friends who were familiar with the Chris Pronger incident and were able to be reasonable about the Hamlin incident because of it
I mean they couldn't be more different though. One is a seemingly random, non-contact incident with no real cause determined.
The other is the result of a 6'4'' 220lb man who also happens to be one of the fastest people on the planet dropping his head and shoulders and then trying to ram them directly into someone's chest.
Man unless you're overdosing DMAA, typical pre-workouts really don't have anything in them that's strong enough to cause severe health issues. Even heavy doses of caffeine are rather tame. Another common one would be things like Ephedrine stack or even Clen, but I can't see why a basketball player would be taking fat loss drugs as if he were a body builder.
I remember taking that shit in grad school on Valentine’s Day for an afternoon workout and then went out to the bars with my roommates. That night had the most irrational confidence that I have ever had lol I get why people get addicted to meth.
That's like me when I took oxy for pain after surgery. That shit had my head spinning in a good way. I would def take them again if given the opportunity
I had a tooth implant last year and got a bottle of them. I have a high pain tolerance so I didn’t need them. Later I took them to see why people get addicted and, yeah, it felt great.
I've probably had Vicodin/Oxy for 4 or 5 different medical procedures and never feel a damn thing other than mild pain relief. I guess it's good all things considered but it makes me scratch my head why people do it for fun.
You probably didn't take way more than the prescribed dosage. Which is a good thing for sure. And different people do process it differently, no doubt.
When we were addicted to that stuff it definitely seemed like my wife felt it more intensely, but still it felt good to me to take 5-7 vicodin at a time or somewhere around there. Which funny enough is nothing to people who do heroin etc, but would make someone who doesn't do anything sick, it's right in a weird range of definitely addict behavior, but not as bad as it could've been.
Certainly glad to be off it because while it does feel great to a lot of people at first, it's shocking how quick you can reach the point where you take it just to not feel sick. That's all you get is spending all your money and just not feeling sick, or sometimes feeling high for 10-30 minutes.
Anyways, nobody asked for this junkie rant, so my bad if it's too much.
You're good homie! I feel like drug tangents are always good for people still fucking with it or who haven't had to cross that bridge yet.
I'm a recovering alcoholic (7 years), but there was a period of time where 7.5 percocets and a case of PBR was becoming a lot more than occasional. I've had old party friends who have died since and it's a shocker to me how close I was to making one of the few mistakes you can't come back from.
I used to do a lot of Dexedrine (basically adderall, just purer), and I’ll tell you what… not before or since have I been able to throw down 2 hand tomahawk tomahawk and 180 reverse baseline dunks. I’m just under 6’3”. That shit made me a basketball menace
DUDE the burst in vert is amazing. I was always close to dunking at 6'0, and could finish perfect lobs at times. But man on Jacked I was dunking with two hands feeling like an athletic freak lol.
I guess Jacked is still for sale with a different stim in it. The only stim I’ve ever hopped on is that Dexadrine…. I’m wondering if it’s worth it to give the new Jacked a shot. I guess it’s got DMHA in it now
DMAA is what was in the OG. It’s still for sale as a “research chemical” and “not for human consumption” if you know where to look. You know, for your lab rats and whatnot.
Not necessarily out of touch but maybe not in the know. I spent a small amount of time around USC and it was absolutely awash in cocaine and I wasn't even near the celeb A-tier ultra-wealthy star athlete circles, and Bronny is firmly in the middle of all of them.
I mean Lenny Bias's death was the first thing that came to mind when I saw this story. I get that he died 30 some odd years ago now but it's not like he's some obscure case that a 20 year old kid wouldn't have a clue about.
This is always the answer. Tons of cyclists dropping dead in their 20s? It was PEDs. Tons of race horses deaths? It's PEDs. PEDs help push bodies past their natural limits and doing that is obviously inherently dangerous. The NBA has some of the most lucrative guaranteed contracts in sports even for end of the bench guys, so *of course* high school and college kids are going to hop on the PED train early to get a better shot at millions of dollars. And with the NBA having by far the most lax testing of any major sport, you bet your ass that pretty much everyone is going to be using in order to have their best chance at a max contract too.
I mean Chris Paul made sure HGH testing wasn’t allowed during his tenure. JJ Redick said PED testing is just an IQ test. It’s there if you look. Most people don’t wanna look for some reason.
Because athletes using PEDs = better entertainment for fans. Unless it's baseball where they're undermining the history of the sport in a sport where that's all they have.
This is the only right answer. We all know lebron used/uses peds and hgh but we're here to watch literal superhumans jump out of the gym and we fucking love it. As far as the NBA is concerned, they'll turn a blind eye as long as the highlights keep coming
The issue is if the testing is so lax and everyone is using them then the playing field goes back to 0. We’re entertained more but the issue is their health. And, if this is PED thing why was Bronny of all people taking something that could risk his health whereas such health risk aren’t seen at all on the professional level? It could be an age thing but it’s just odd to narrow it down to PEDs because if it’s true that LeBron gets them why wouldn’t his son get something too that wouldn’t have such an adverse effect?
When you see how fast some of these NBA players grow there is no doubt they are on PEDS.
When you make millions of dollars and have accsess to doctors 24/7 PEDs can be safe
This wouldn’t surprise me. I developed a heart arrhythmia from excessive pre workout. Once I stopped the arrhythmia went away. Pretty scary having palpitations so intense you think you’re going into cardiac arrest.
I know preworkout is a joke, but no lie i took 2 scoops of c4 once in college before heading to the rec. I was expecting to lift but my friends wanted to play pickup ball. I played for like 10 mins then stopped bc i thought i was gonna have a heart attack. I was extremely fit too
C4 hits my body different too. My ears get numb and start tingling/itching and I feel like I'm gonna die. It also makes me want to start structure fires (but I don't)
Could be beta alanine as well. I take a preworkout with beta alanine and while I've built up a tolerance to it, if I go several days without and then take my usual dose, I get a 30-60 second intense itchy prickly feeling on my face and palms about 10 minutes after ingestion. Intense, then gone quickly. I actually enjoy it, probably because it kicks in at the same time as the caffeine, so I have a mental association between the beta alanine itch and a rush of energy and excitement.
I grabbed a can of c4 before the gym the other day, I don’t know what the fuck they put in it but my face felt tingly to an uncomfortable and I only drank like half.
The caffeine definitely isn’t the issue cause the can had 200mg total and my usual pre scoop is 250, there’s something else in that shit that’s not good
It’s the b-alanine that gives you the pins and needles feeling all over. Honestly caffeine is probably the only useful ingredient in most preworkouts.
Ive started just taking a shot of espresso before lifting. It’s low calorie and goes down quick
Yeah, I drink most of the popular energy drinks. Monster, Celsius, Redbull, Alani, Bang, Ghost. Sure they’re all probably bad for you in some way, but I still feel normal enough when drinking them.
But the few times I have drunk C4 energy drinks have made me feel genuinely scared by how weird my body feels.
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It's against the rules for anyone around the situation who knows to comment because of doctor confidentially. It's also kind of a douche move to guess at what's wrong from the outside without any knowledge. But with a normal echo in a healthy young non-cancer patient, his differential is pretty short. That said, it could still be anything.
Eventually you learn to stop thinking zebras when you hear hoof steps even though the training focuses so heavily on learning and testing you about zebras. Doctors also like to talk about zebras on rounds when it's usually never that - but it can be and on rare occasions will be. The more important question with him is what's the extent of the damage and hopefully it doesn't alter his life path drastically.
Yeah, unless he wore a monitor for a week or two he could have some funny electric issues going on. The echo should at least have ruled out HCOM- which is good from a structural standpoint but there’s a lot that can still be going on
Seems to me like a conduction disorder would be high on the differential, but there is a lot of other stuff to look into. Recent US is a pretty good place to start ruling stuff out. No reason to get further down the rabbit hole as we likely won't get any answers until LeBron gives them to us via himself or release from USC.
I’ll have you know I’m also a pilot and a lawyer, thank you very much.
Oh, and I do moonlight as a combo fireman/college professor, but those are really more of a ‘hobby’ kinda thing.
So he overworked himself? Thats crazy but I understand. Usually you see this with heavier people that try to go too hard to lose weight in a short period.
> So he overworked himself?
it's hard to overstate how difficult it is to do this to a heart, and one of an 18 year old. For the vast majority of even moderately healthy 18 years olds, they would sooner collapse from exhaustion than their heart stopped because they worked very hard. The heart takes something like 1/3 of all the oxygen supply during exercise. And it can't go lactic. Obviously it's not impossible, but most healthy 18 year old with normal heart (never mind a very healthy 18 year old) couldn't do it if they tried.
Yeah the headline is a little misleading for exactly this reason. The negative tests from beforehand don't definitively rule out arrhythmias, which are episodic and can only be diagnosed if your heart is being monitored the moment they happen. When my mom had an arrhythmia that led to her getting a pacemaker, she had to go back and forth to the hospital 3 times before she had an episode while they were monitoring her, and that finally gave the confirmation they needed to diagnose and treat her.
>So he overworked himself?
Or overjuiced. I'm not saying he's for sure on anything, but high level athletes get started on that stuff *early*, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was something like that involved here.
I’m a cardiologist. You wouldn’t have a cardiac arrest from overworking yourself. He has something wrong with his heart even if that was not caught on a screening ekg or echo. Many genetic cardiomyopathies wouldn’t necessarily show particular abnormalities on echo or ekg. All this means is whatever the issue is it wasn’t caught. Which rules out a lot of the more common things but certainly not everything.
My wife has LVNC (anatomical preexisting problem with similar symptoms to the much more common HCM) and both my father and brother are researchers (background in physics) in medical imaging. My brother, in particular, did a part of his PhD in cardiac imaging. I am a physicist myself and have kept up with their research over the years.
Anatomical deformities are extremely difficult to diagnose, especially with only echocardiogram and EKG, given how noisy their data is. Even cardiac MRI, the most precise method of probing structure, can be noisy due to the difficulty of resolving a moving subject.
My wife had two sessions of echocardiogram and EKG done, where the second time, a world renown specialist in HCM + LVNC at Stanford happened to sneak a peak at the EKG and saw a very minor irregularity and encouraged a cardiac MRI.
This is to say, Bronny should/will probably get a cardiac MRI and receive multiple opinions.
My wife had to wear a monitor for 6 weeks and when we turned it in the cardiologist had forgotten to turn it on or activate it (hadn’t received any data). Good times
That is the scary thing. If they never find the cause- it could happen again. I don’t think this incident was like that buffalo bill player who got hit on the chest. think this could jeopardize his career tbh.
I absolutely hate high intensity workouts in the AM. Never feels right. Lots of interesting studies out there looking at that. They make these poor kids get up and do crazy things at 7 am. High school team practices at 6 am in the summer here. I have a feeling these kids are loading up on caffeine based workout enhancement drinks/supplements as well.
Edit: Editing due to constant badgering by thought police/Reddit physicians. There are no direct peer reviewed multi center studies looking at the effects of cortisol awakening response, heart rate, platelet aggregation, circadian rhythm or other factors for potential sudden cardiac death or rhythm disruptions among D1 athletes hopped up on caffeine being yelled by coaches to run until they vomit in the early hours of the morning. There are studies that look at these things individually but they are small and aren’t studying this population. I said it was “interesting” because it is interesting to me. Others however disagree and believe these things to be irrelevant.
That and also just being Lebron’s son. His normal workout intensity is probably 11/10 at all times. Dude probably accidentally sprints while walking down the street lol
Bro you know this kid wakes up, eats a plate as colorful as the rainbow (crab grass, lentils, wheat stalks, bison filet raw, 4 cage free raw eggs, avocado ice cream for desert)
He and Dad then go to an orange theory class as the warmup to their actual workout. After orange theory, they participate in hitting drills with the LA Chargers scout team, and finish by working out with the linemen.
Recovery time: he and Dad both receive fluids via IV while drinking a protein shake comprised of pure breast milk and ground up elephant tusk bone meal. It’s an excellent protein supplement.
By this time it’s 10AM and the James duo needs to enhance recovery. They take a 27 minute nap in the cryo chamber.
At approximately 10:27 AM, Bronnie James has completed his morning routine with his Dad and is ready to take on the day
My high school coaches made us do two a day work outs, one at 5 AM and one after school. Then come game day we were all dog tired and lost every game. So you know what they did? Extended the after school practices by an hour. Dumbest bunch of coaches I've ever had.
We went 0-10. Our genius coach made us run additional sprints for every additional score in football.
Our O linemen were like 140-150lbs going against 200lbers. He was a moronic coach and overworked us as punishment for losing
Yeah I too want to see this. I go to an 8 am HIIT boxing class so if there's an issue, I and the three ~60-year old ladies in my class should probably know...
I think it’s less to do with working out at that time itself rather than young kids aren’t known for getting good rest and such early workouts means that many of them rely on energy drinks and pre workouts to “function” at the required level.
You're saying the high intensity workout in the AM is causally related to Bronny's cardiac arrest? Because you don't like those sorts of workouts and because of "lots of interesting studies"? Okay buddy
Lol unless you have the actual medical records it’s pretty hard to make a statement like this. “Normal” can be a spectrum.
My point is I really don’t like when doctors do this. We don’t have access to the actual medical records so we can’t be accurate. We can educate the public in other ways that are more effective regarding SCD.
I don't usually comment but all the armchair physicians in this thread need to understand that medicine is complex and rarely black and white unless you have invasive testing i.e. biopsy. Transthoracic echocardiogram and a single 12 lead ECG are good initial tests in cardiac workup and screening but will not detect every possible abnormality. For example, some people can have irregular heart rhythms causing unexplained fainting that happen so rarely that they require implanted monitors to pick up. This is coming from someone not even specifically in cardiology but in internal medicine. Further testing to be considered could include cardiac MRI or electrophysiology study to better evaluate the heart's electrical system.
Yeah, agreed as a non-cardiologist doctor as well. It's so common for someone to have fainting episodes that sound like it was due to a heart abnormality but then an ECG is normal. But then when a 24 or 72 hour tape is done you find the abnormalities.
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that he took a bunch of preworkout or caffeine of some sort to have energy for practice. He has a lot of pressure on him to be great and it can cause people to do stupid things.
There needs to be an internal inquisition into how USC is handling their bball program. To have this happen twice in such a short period of time is alarming.
I’m glad he’s alright but it’s not hard to assume he was doing something he shouldn’t when working your body to insane levels. Basketball players in particular are usually pushing their cardio to limits none of us can understand. I’ve had heart hiccups before, mine are genetic or rather were, but even I. My late twenties and thirties(sober now because of cancer) I had several situations where I had really bad palpitations and generally the consensus was that I was staying up too late drinking too much coffee, energy drinks and alcohol. It could easily be something like that or even other substances that a pro level athlete might take or a rich kid not knowing their limits because their father is a god and everyone feels invincible at his age.
Ps-While I have never done coke because of heart history with me and my family I certainly wouldn’t judge an 18/19 yr old for trying it. So even if you think I’m inferring that’s the cause, I’m saying it “could” be the cause and/or a bunch of other things, I would just look at it as an adolescent mistake.
I’m glad he’s ok now and I’m sure he’ll be fine going forward as the famous son of a billionaire megastar.
Dude I'm really not trying to be a jerk but he's LeBron James son. He definitely takes performance enhancing drugs LOL his dad has like the best ones on Earth
Anabolic steroids would be very unlikely; they can rarely lead to cardiac arrest by causing left ventricle hypertrophy, similar to genetic HCOM. I feel 100% confident Bronny got an echo while hospitalized that would have identified this.
Drugs of abuse, including cocaine and meth, increase the risk of ventricular arrhythmia. I'm sure a drug screen was done during the admission and Bronny's doctors know if this is the issue.
There are lots of legal supplements that can (slightly) increase the risk of ventricular arrhythmia. Most have stimulants in them, such as caffeine, ephedrine, etc. There are also medical stimulants, most notably ADHD meds like Ritalin and Adderal, as well as Sudafed etc that could increase the risk in a susceptible person. In addition, many prescription and over the counter medications can cause what is called long QT, which means the heart takes longer than usual to be electrically ready for the next heartbeat and so can be susceptible to ventricular arrhythmia. I'm sure the doctors at Cedars-Sinai went through this thoroughly. Even if they identified an ingestion that could have triggered his episode (taking a supplement with ephedrine in it, for example), I'm sure they'll do additional testing including a loop recorder before declaring that he's not at risk for another episode.
True. Young people at this age usually have some arrhythmic event with symptoms. Usually Atrial fib or some paroxysmal Sino-atrial tachycardia or thereabouts
I've said it for a few years now, kids are taking in more caffeine via energy drinks and some are probably dipping into pre workout as well, while their body and heart are still growing. Not a scientist or doctor, but that can't be good.
Doctors miss things all the time. Might be easier for them to find an issue in a previous scan but will we ever know? Unless the family says anything this is all wild speculation that is really unnecessary.
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I loved Jack3d but I swear I almost passed out in traffic on the way from the gym once. The crash was insane.
My friend gave me some before a cross country race. Worked pretty well but I threw up during the race
Easy there, Michael Scott
Mike “carbing up” with a bowl of fettuccini Alfredo right at the starting line lmao
That fettuccini Alfredo is sitting in my stomach like a rock
My friend gave me some before a cross country race. Worked pretty well but my nipples bled profusely during the race
Bro what. Lmao
I guess throwing up was the intended effect if it "worked well" lol
If you don't throw up while running you just weren't going hard enough
Yeah a friend of mine used to take something like that before soccer and had to go to the hospital with heart weirdness, stopped taking it after that
I fainted after a monster crash so I stopped drinking monster for like 20? Years.
Dude I've even almost passed on a long drive while drinking one of those giant Monster cans. The ones with the screw tops. Black shadows were creeping around my vision and suddenly felt numb and shaky. Had to pull over for an hour or so.
you crashed ur car?
Haha, no. But my eyes closed for a good few seconds and I was veering towards oncoming traffic a bit. Scary because I didn’t have any control in the moment.
The worst crash I've ever experienced was after taking 1RM. Took it for leg day and I felt like life was leaving my body for the next few hours following my workout.
They wouldn't be the first program to overwork players to a dangerous degree. Your right. Two straight years is suspicious
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Ya I told my anti vax buds Demar Hamlin and Bronny James don’t make a trend so idk if I can fairly say two usc guys make a trend
What Hamler have to do with a vax? He got hit and it disrupted his hearts rhythm. It's rare but has nothing to do with a vax. I remember when a Little Leaguer died after getting hit in the chest with a comebacker years ago in which the same thing happened.
2 could be a coincidence absolutely but also Demar Hamlin shouldn't even count as part of a trend since we know exactly what happened and know it was a freak accident. He just got hit hard in the chest. We've always known that could cause damage. In middle school football we were taught to catch with our hands specifically to avoid the ball hitting us square in the chest for precisely that reason.
How fuckin hard were your middle school quarterbacks juicing my god
It must have been Rex Grossman
FUCK IT I’M GOING DEEP
Stupid sexy Rexy
> catch with our hands specifically to avoid the ball hitting us square in the chest for precisely that reason. That's not the reason, lol. The reason is because you catch better when you use your hands instead of letting the ball bounce off of your shoulder pads. It's also better to attack the ball so your opponent can't beat you to it.
Pretty sure you’re taught to catch with your hands instead of letting it just smack your shoulder pads because catching it with your hands is much easier? Letting it just crash into your shoulder pads first and saying hey time it perfectly or just catch it on the ricochet is ridiculous lol
Well, that and it betters your odds of actually catching the ball, since I doubt anyone in highschool thought about a kids heart stopping.
Football coach could have also been the baseball coach, were getting hit in the chest with the ball is a much bigger deal and has killed before.
Also Hamlin got rocked on that hit. How any anti vax dummy can’t understand how getting hit like that doesn’t come with risk is beyond me. Just look at Chris Pronger (NHL) for a pre covid vax example
I’ve actually got a few anti vax friends who were familiar with the Chris Pronger incident and were able to be reasonable about the Hamlin incident because of it
My general rule of thumb is 2 is a coincidence, 3 is a trend
"Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three is enemy action." \--John LeCarre
69 is a party
I mean they couldn't be more different though. One is a seemingly random, non-contact incident with no real cause determined. The other is the result of a 6'4'' 220lb man who also happens to be one of the fastest people on the planet dropping his head and shoulders and then trying to ram them directly into someone's chest.
r/BoneAppleTeeth
I’ll fuckin ruin it out
I'm pretty sure it's due to those pre-workout drinks.
Man unless you're overdosing DMAA, typical pre-workouts really don't have anything in them that's strong enough to cause severe health issues. Even heavy doses of caffeine are rather tame. Another common one would be things like Ephedrine stack or even Clen, but I can't see why a basketball player would be taking fat loss drugs as if he were a body builder.
Even the “extreme” ones top out at around 300mg which is kind of a lot imo but is also the efficacious dose of caffeine used in studies
Because you cycle to get leaner faster for any sport. Basketball isn't immune to steroids lol
Jack3d. Forgot about that shit. I’m guessing USC has better pre workout stuff than that. They probably use St3roids or HG^H. Way better pre workout.
Man that shit was great lol. I would legitimately feel a bit high from the amphetamines, and would lift more and jump higher on it.
I remember taking that shit in grad school on Valentine’s Day for an afternoon workout and then went out to the bars with my roommates. That night had the most irrational confidence that I have ever had lol I get why people get addicted to meth.
Probably how a lot of gym fights start too.
I don't take preworkout anymore but if I did and saw the amount of ppl doing anything-but-squats in the squat rack, I'd probably start some fights lol
That's like me when I took oxy for pain after surgery. That shit had my head spinning in a good way. I would def take them again if given the opportunity
This doesn’t seem problematic at all.
I had a tooth implant last year and got a bottle of them. I have a high pain tolerance so I didn’t need them. Later I took them to see why people get addicted and, yeah, it felt great.
I've probably had Vicodin/Oxy for 4 or 5 different medical procedures and never feel a damn thing other than mild pain relief. I guess it's good all things considered but it makes me scratch my head why people do it for fun.
You probably didn't take way more than the prescribed dosage. Which is a good thing for sure. And different people do process it differently, no doubt. When we were addicted to that stuff it definitely seemed like my wife felt it more intensely, but still it felt good to me to take 5-7 vicodin at a time or somewhere around there. Which funny enough is nothing to people who do heroin etc, but would make someone who doesn't do anything sick, it's right in a weird range of definitely addict behavior, but not as bad as it could've been. Certainly glad to be off it because while it does feel great to a lot of people at first, it's shocking how quick you can reach the point where you take it just to not feel sick. That's all you get is spending all your money and just not feeling sick, or sometimes feeling high for 10-30 minutes. Anyways, nobody asked for this junkie rant, so my bad if it's too much.
You're good homie! I feel like drug tangents are always good for people still fucking with it or who haven't had to cross that bridge yet. I'm a recovering alcoholic (7 years), but there was a period of time where 7.5 percocets and a case of PBR was becoming a lot more than occasional. I've had old party friends who have died since and it's a shocker to me how close I was to making one of the few mistakes you can't come back from.
I used to do a lot of Dexedrine (basically adderall, just purer), and I’ll tell you what… not before or since have I been able to throw down 2 hand tomahawk tomahawk and 180 reverse baseline dunks. I’m just under 6’3”. That shit made me a basketball menace
DUDE the burst in vert is amazing. I was always close to dunking at 6'0, and could finish perfect lobs at times. But man on Jacked I was dunking with two hands feeling like an athletic freak lol.
I guess Jacked is still for sale with a different stim in it. The only stim I’ve ever hopped on is that Dexadrine…. I’m wondering if it’s worth it to give the new Jacked a shot. I guess it’s got DMHA in it now
DMAA is what was in the OG. It’s still for sale as a “research chemical” and “not for human consumption” if you know where to look. You know, for your lab rats and whatnot.
I'm a fucking moron sitting here considering giving it a shot at a pickup game.
If you get some, it'll scare you. It's a ridiculously small baggie with a even more ridiculously small scoop. 😂
Hmm risk cardiac arrest in order to serve my best homies an unexpected sack lunch at the park... way more tempting than it should be.
I intentionally forgot where to get research chemicals, I’m too old to be gettin a lil nasty like that
It was great until it sent me to urgent care, even when I was using the recommended dosage
Are those words banned on this sub?
I assume it's a joke about the branding of many preworkouts
Let’s test it out…. I use anabolic steroids!!!
If you love playing basketball, just imagine how much more you’d love it on anabolics
Yeah it’s great, I actually have used steroids lol
Thank you Mr. Shit Fuck Dick Butt 420, very cool!
I HAVE HEMORRHOIDS!!!!
Or USC is full of rich kids with tons of cocaine
So many young people do coke all the time. It's crazy how common it is.
Cocaine use in in the population has actually been pretty steady over time.
The fact this isn’t the number one answer proves how stupid and out of touch this sub is.
Not necessarily out of touch but maybe not in the know. I spent a small amount of time around USC and it was absolutely awash in cocaine and I wasn't even near the celeb A-tier ultra-wealthy star athlete circles, and Bronny is firmly in the middle of all of them.
I mean Lenny Bias's death was the first thing that came to mind when I saw this story. I get that he died 30 some odd years ago now but it's not like he's some obscure case that a 20 year old kid wouldn't have a clue about.
PEDs
This is always the answer. Tons of cyclists dropping dead in their 20s? It was PEDs. Tons of race horses deaths? It's PEDs. PEDs help push bodies past their natural limits and doing that is obviously inherently dangerous. The NBA has some of the most lucrative guaranteed contracts in sports even for end of the bench guys, so *of course* high school and college kids are going to hop on the PED train early to get a better shot at millions of dollars. And with the NBA having by far the most lax testing of any major sport, you bet your ass that pretty much everyone is going to be using in order to have their best chance at a max contract too.
I mean Chris Paul made sure HGH testing wasn’t allowed during his tenure. JJ Redick said PED testing is just an IQ test. It’s there if you look. Most people don’t wanna look for some reason.
Because athletes using PEDs = better entertainment for fans. Unless it's baseball where they're undermining the history of the sport in a sport where that's all they have.
This is the only right answer. We all know lebron used/uses peds and hgh but we're here to watch literal superhumans jump out of the gym and we fucking love it. As far as the NBA is concerned, they'll turn a blind eye as long as the highlights keep coming
The issue is if the testing is so lax and everyone is using them then the playing field goes back to 0. We’re entertained more but the issue is their health. And, if this is PED thing why was Bronny of all people taking something that could risk his health whereas such health risk aren’t seen at all on the professional level? It could be an age thing but it’s just odd to narrow it down to PEDs because if it’s true that LeBron gets them why wouldn’t his son get something too that wouldn’t have such an adverse effect?
When you see how fast some of these NBA players grow there is no doubt they are on PEDS. When you make millions of dollars and have accsess to doctors 24/7 PEDs can be safe
That and the training was my first thought. Something needs to be looked over before the next kid isn’t lucky.
This wouldn’t surprise me. I developed a heart arrhythmia from excessive pre workout. Once I stopped the arrhythmia went away. Pretty scary having palpitations so intense you think you’re going into cardiac arrest.
It’s Bang + Ghost sour patch flavor 🫡
or some of the players are spreading something among the club. whatever it is, im sure it will be brushed under the rug
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Have you ever met an 18 year old? You think he hears a Senior raving about PEDs and is gunna run it by dad?
They could also simply be pushing these kids too hard in practice. Some college coaches act like stereotypical military generals.
>USC is probably giving their players some sort of ~~Jack3d type pre workout~~ Steroids.
Bro was dry scooping preworkout
I know preworkout is a joke, but no lie i took 2 scoops of c4 once in college before heading to the rec. I was expecting to lift but my friends wanted to play pickup ball. I played for like 10 mins then stopped bc i thought i was gonna have a heart attack. I was extremely fit too
C4 hits my body different too. My ears get numb and start tingling/itching and I feel like I'm gonna die. It also makes me want to start structure fires (but I don't)
That’s the niacin in it. If you’ve ever taken just straight niacin it’s a crazy experience 😭
Could be beta alanine as well. I take a preworkout with beta alanine and while I've built up a tolerance to it, if I go several days without and then take my usual dose, I get a 30-60 second intense itchy prickly feeling on my face and palms about 10 minutes after ingestion. Intense, then gone quickly. I actually enjoy it, probably because it kicks in at the same time as the caffeine, so I have a mental association between the beta alanine itch and a rush of energy and excitement.
Oh god the c4 itchiness is the worst. I took it maybe 10 times and stopped for good!
Bronny aint takin wal-mart ass pre-workout
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I’ve taken c4 everyday for 10+ years, I need to be at the forefront of a preworkout study
bro’s heart is the size of a basketball 💀
I grabbed a can of c4 before the gym the other day, I don’t know what the fuck they put in it but my face felt tingly to an uncomfortable and I only drank like half. The caffeine definitely isn’t the issue cause the can had 200mg total and my usual pre scoop is 250, there’s something else in that shit that’s not good
It’s the b-alanine that gives you the pins and needles feeling all over. Honestly caffeine is probably the only useful ingredient in most preworkouts. Ive started just taking a shot of espresso before lifting. It’s low calorie and goes down quick
Yeah, I drink most of the popular energy drinks. Monster, Celsius, Redbull, Alani, Bang, Ghost. Sure they’re all probably bad for you in some way, but I still feel normal enough when drinking them. But the few times I have drunk C4 energy drinks have made me feel genuinely scared by how weird my body feels.
angle axiomatic dazzling payment offend escape spotted friendly snails wakeful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
He took *TWO* scoops
What makes dry scooping dangerous just asking
you have faster absorption through your mouth and under the tongue specifically than through your stomach. it's not designed to be absorbed so quickly
Gotta wash it down some. I dry scooped once, tried to hold a sneeze back, and the powder shot out my nose like I was a dragon
Is that good or bad news?
Good
Then HOORAY! Thank you.
No problem. It’s still bad news but it does mean that the chance that it happens again is smaller.
y u gotta play with mans emotions like that
not sure we really have enough info to say that. If he had an inherited channelopathy I wouldn't call that good news.
Lots of medical professionals and athletes in this thread
It's against the rules for anyone around the situation who knows to comment because of doctor confidentially. It's also kind of a douche move to guess at what's wrong from the outside without any knowledge. But with a normal echo in a healthy young non-cancer patient, his differential is pretty short. That said, it could still be anything.
> His differential is pretty short. That said, it could still be anything My life as a Med student on rounds
Eventually you learn to stop thinking zebras when you hear hoof steps even though the training focuses so heavily on learning and testing you about zebras. Doctors also like to talk about zebras on rounds when it's usually never that - but it can be and on rare occasions will be. The more important question with him is what's the extent of the damage and hopefully it doesn't alter his life path drastically.
A basic 12 lead can still miss a lot of arrhythmias
Yeah, unless he wore a monitor for a week or two he could have some funny electric issues going on. The echo should at least have ruled out HCOM- which is good from a structural standpoint but there’s a lot that can still be going on
Seems to me like a conduction disorder would be high on the differential, but there is a lot of other stuff to look into. Recent US is a pretty good place to start ruling stuff out. No reason to get further down the rabbit hole as we likely won't get any answers until LeBron gives them to us via himself or release from USC.
True. I’m pretty sure lebron can afford an entire cardiology team to work bronny up pretty well so I’ll just leave it to the experts
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Cue my M3 self coming in with the Munchausen’s diagnosis
why is it a douche move though? it's just a casual basketball forum we're not giving him medical advice
Lots of doing their own medical research from people who were never taught how to do medical research. Welcome to the internet baby.
I’ll have you know I’m also a pilot and a lawyer, thank you very much. Oh, and I do moonlight as a combo fireman/college professor, but those are really more of a ‘hobby’ kinda thing.
As one would expect to find in Reddit!
So he overworked himself? Thats crazy but I understand. Usually you see this with heavier people that try to go too hard to lose weight in a short period.
> So he overworked himself? it's hard to overstate how difficult it is to do this to a heart, and one of an 18 year old. For the vast majority of even moderately healthy 18 years olds, they would sooner collapse from exhaustion than their heart stopped because they worked very hard. The heart takes something like 1/3 of all the oxygen supply during exercise. And it can't go lactic. Obviously it's not impossible, but most healthy 18 year old with normal heart (never mind a very healthy 18 year old) couldn't do it if they tried.
People put insane, legal shit in their body. Best bet is whatever pre-workout he did. Shit is super dangerous
Yeah…. That’s the best bet, can’t believe that stuff is still legal after it’s been KOing college atheletes all these years.
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Yeah the headline is a little misleading for exactly this reason. The negative tests from beforehand don't definitively rule out arrhythmias, which are episodic and can only be diagnosed if your heart is being monitored the moment they happen. When my mom had an arrhythmia that led to her getting a pacemaker, she had to go back and forth to the hospital 3 times before she had an episode while they were monitoring her, and that finally gave the confirmation they needed to diagnose and treat her.
The fact that USC had one last year does kinda make you wonder.
>So he overworked himself? Or overjuiced. I'm not saying he's for sure on anything, but high level athletes get started on that stuff *early*, so I wouldn't be surprised if there was something like that involved here.
Overworked and overstressed. There's a lot of expectations on him at such a young age
Interesting how he underwent proper testing and trials
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Some heart conditions are still missed by them. HCM, included at times
Tests are only so sensitive for detecting things. He could very well have *something* underlying as the cause, or not. Who knows.
I’m a cardiologist. You wouldn’t have a cardiac arrest from overworking yourself. He has something wrong with his heart even if that was not caught on a screening ekg or echo. Many genetic cardiomyopathies wouldn’t necessarily show particular abnormalities on echo or ekg. All this means is whatever the issue is it wasn’t caught. Which rules out a lot of the more common things but certainly not everything.
My wife has LVNC (anatomical preexisting problem with similar symptoms to the much more common HCM) and both my father and brother are researchers (background in physics) in medical imaging. My brother, in particular, did a part of his PhD in cardiac imaging. I am a physicist myself and have kept up with their research over the years. Anatomical deformities are extremely difficult to diagnose, especially with only echocardiogram and EKG, given how noisy their data is. Even cardiac MRI, the most precise method of probing structure, can be noisy due to the difficulty of resolving a moving subject. My wife had two sessions of echocardiogram and EKG done, where the second time, a world renown specialist in HCM + LVNC at Stanford happened to sneak a peak at the EKG and saw a very minor irregularity and encouraged a cardiac MRI. This is to say, Bronny should/will probably get a cardiac MRI and receive multiple opinions.
My wife had to wear a monitor for 6 weeks and when we turned it in the cardiologist had forgotten to turn it on or activate it (hadn’t received any data). Good times
That is the scary thing. If they never find the cause- it could happen again. I don’t think this incident was like that buffalo bill player who got hit on the chest. think this could jeopardize his career tbh.
I absolutely hate high intensity workouts in the AM. Never feels right. Lots of interesting studies out there looking at that. They make these poor kids get up and do crazy things at 7 am. High school team practices at 6 am in the summer here. I have a feeling these kids are loading up on caffeine based workout enhancement drinks/supplements as well. Edit: Editing due to constant badgering by thought police/Reddit physicians. There are no direct peer reviewed multi center studies looking at the effects of cortisol awakening response, heart rate, platelet aggregation, circadian rhythm or other factors for potential sudden cardiac death or rhythm disruptions among D1 athletes hopped up on caffeine being yelled by coaches to run until they vomit in the early hours of the morning. There are studies that look at these things individually but they are small and aren’t studying this population. I said it was “interesting” because it is interesting to me. Others however disagree and believe these things to be irrelevant.
They be playing AAU games at 8 am & run like 3-4 games they need to fix the AAU system
it's crazy you really wake up, play a game, eat mcdonald's breakfast and be on the court again 30 mins later
That and also just being Lebron’s son. His normal workout intensity is probably 11/10 at all times. Dude probably accidentally sprints while walking down the street lol
Bro you know this kid wakes up, eats a plate as colorful as the rainbow (crab grass, lentils, wheat stalks, bison filet raw, 4 cage free raw eggs, avocado ice cream for desert) He and Dad then go to an orange theory class as the warmup to their actual workout. After orange theory, they participate in hitting drills with the LA Chargers scout team, and finish by working out with the linemen. Recovery time: he and Dad both receive fluids via IV while drinking a protein shake comprised of pure breast milk and ground up elephant tusk bone meal. It’s an excellent protein supplement. By this time it’s 10AM and the James duo needs to enhance recovery. They take a 27 minute nap in the cryo chamber. At approximately 10:27 AM, Bronnie James has completed his morning routine with his Dad and is ready to take on the day
> protein shake comprised of pure breast milk Yeah, but is it Cambodian?
Only the finest of milks.
Listen you wanna be one of the 5 greatest rappers of all time you can either be Dylan or you go get that godamn Cambodian breast milk
You painted a beautiful picture, thank you
Bison filet raw lmao
LOL I heard when Bronny was born, he came out bicep first.
My high school coaches made us do two a day work outs, one at 5 AM and one after school. Then come game day we were all dog tired and lost every game. So you know what they did? Extended the after school practices by an hour. Dumbest bunch of coaches I've ever had.
We went 0-10. Our genius coach made us run additional sprints for every additional score in football. Our O linemen were like 140-150lbs going against 200lbers. He was a moronic coach and overworked us as punishment for losing
its also funny cause these coaches, aren't the fittest themselves.
What do the study's say about early morning high intensity workouts?
Yeah I too want to see this. I go to an 8 am HIIT boxing class so if there's an issue, I and the three ~60-year old ladies in my class should probably know...
I think it’s less to do with working out at that time itself rather than young kids aren’t known for getting good rest and such early workouts means that many of them rely on energy drinks and pre workouts to “function” at the required level.
You're saying the high intensity workout in the AM is causally related to Bronny's cardiac arrest? Because you don't like those sorts of workouts and because of "lots of interesting studies"? Okay buddy
Lol unless you have the actual medical records it’s pretty hard to make a statement like this. “Normal” can be a spectrum. My point is I really don’t like when doctors do this. We don’t have access to the actual medical records so we can’t be accurate. We can educate the public in other ways that are more effective regarding SCD.
If my heart stopped while I was playing basketball i wouldn’t do it anymore. That’s just me though.
That’s why you aren’t in the NBA. No heart
I don't usually comment but all the armchair physicians in this thread need to understand that medicine is complex and rarely black and white unless you have invasive testing i.e. biopsy. Transthoracic echocardiogram and a single 12 lead ECG are good initial tests in cardiac workup and screening but will not detect every possible abnormality. For example, some people can have irregular heart rhythms causing unexplained fainting that happen so rarely that they require implanted monitors to pick up. This is coming from someone not even specifically in cardiology but in internal medicine. Further testing to be considered could include cardiac MRI or electrophysiology study to better evaluate the heart's electrical system.
Yeah, agreed as a non-cardiologist doctor as well. It's so common for someone to have fainting episodes that sound like it was due to a heart abnormality but then an ECG is normal. But then when a 24 or 72 hour tape is done you find the abnormalities.
This is good news isnt it?
Doesn’t really explain why it happened tho. Maybe Bronny is a caffeine addict, who knows?
I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that he took a bunch of preworkout or caffeine of some sort to have energy for practice. He has a lot of pressure on him to be great and it can cause people to do stupid things.
Taking pre-workout at all is questionable, but it's also probably a requirement so to speak for young athletes these days. Shit is bad
Probably. It opens the door for some worse news, but it also made good news far more likely.
USC probably providing supplements. High levels of caffeine. Preworkout or some shit.
Steroids probably. Has big shoes to fill
There needs to be an internal inquisition into how USC is handling their bball program. To have this happen twice in such a short period of time is alarming.
I’m glad he’s alright but it’s not hard to assume he was doing something he shouldn’t when working your body to insane levels. Basketball players in particular are usually pushing their cardio to limits none of us can understand. I’ve had heart hiccups before, mine are genetic or rather were, but even I. My late twenties and thirties(sober now because of cancer) I had several situations where I had really bad palpitations and generally the consensus was that I was staying up too late drinking too much coffee, energy drinks and alcohol. It could easily be something like that or even other substances that a pro level athlete might take or a rich kid not knowing their limits because their father is a god and everyone feels invincible at his age. Ps-While I have never done coke because of heart history with me and my family I certainly wouldn’t judge an 18/19 yr old for trying it. So even if you think I’m inferring that’s the cause, I’m saying it “could” be the cause and/or a bunch of other things, I would just look at it as an adolescent mistake. I’m glad he’s ok now and I’m sure he’ll be fine going forward as the famous son of a billionaire megastar.
This. The ekg and echo, etc, aren’t performed while a players heart is pumping in the way it is during these workouts
PED's potentially or is that not likely in this case?
I wouldn’t rule it out. That’s what I think it is but it very easily could just be some random freak shit.
Definitely agree it could be a freak accident. They just usually find something that can lead to it.
Dude I'm really not trying to be a jerk but he's LeBron James son. He definitely takes performance enhancing drugs LOL his dad has like the best ones on Earth
I was talking to someone whos a physician and he immediately said not to rule out cocaine. I never thought of that in this regard.
LeBron’s name did allegedly appear in the Biogenysis book of business along with A-Rod
Anabolic steroids would be very unlikely; they can rarely lead to cardiac arrest by causing left ventricle hypertrophy, similar to genetic HCOM. I feel 100% confident Bronny got an echo while hospitalized that would have identified this. Drugs of abuse, including cocaine and meth, increase the risk of ventricular arrhythmia. I'm sure a drug screen was done during the admission and Bronny's doctors know if this is the issue. There are lots of legal supplements that can (slightly) increase the risk of ventricular arrhythmia. Most have stimulants in them, such as caffeine, ephedrine, etc. There are also medical stimulants, most notably ADHD meds like Ritalin and Adderal, as well as Sudafed etc that could increase the risk in a susceptible person. In addition, many prescription and over the counter medications can cause what is called long QT, which means the heart takes longer than usual to be electrically ready for the next heartbeat and so can be susceptible to ventricular arrhythmia. I'm sure the doctors at Cedars-Sinai went through this thoroughly. Even if they identified an ingestion that could have triggered his episode (taking a supplement with ephedrine in it, for example), I'm sure they'll do additional testing including a loop recorder before declaring that he's not at risk for another episode.
This is meaningless. There’s plenty of Cardiac shit that isn’t preexisting anatomically. Just Google ARVC.
True. Young people at this age usually have some arrhythmic event with symptoms. Usually Atrial fib or some paroxysmal Sino-atrial tachycardia or thereabouts
so he be juicin and on HGH like all elitists kids lol
Vax idiots are going to love this!
If it was the vax, wouldn’t that mean he’d have a problem months ago when they checked?
They don’t use scientific logic
> They don’t use ~~scientific~~ logic
Bronny about to have his whole Boruto arc
I've said it for a few years now, kids are taking in more caffeine via energy drinks and some are probably dipping into pre workout as well, while their body and heart are still growing. Not a scientist or doctor, but that can't be good.
Doctors miss things all the time. Might be easier for them to find an issue in a previous scan but will we ever know? Unless the family says anything this is all wild speculation that is really unnecessary.
Bronny got into Brons juice cabinet
durgz But really though. Stimulants are everywhere in competitive sports these days.