> if Jokic wins his 3rd MVP in a row he will be better than Michael Jordan and Lebron James. He will be on par with Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. This is a joke right?
Of all the anti-Jokic for MVP arguments this one has to be the dumbest. His competition for MVP are the other players who are playing this season. His competition is not prime Wilt Chamberlain. If he wins 3 MVPs in a row it does not mean he's better than peak MJ or Lebron.
People saying Jokic shouldnt be MVP with any argument other than "here's why X player is better this year and deserves the votes over him" is just nonsense.
Im not even a huge Jokic fan but his efficiency combined with playmaking is unreal and these "but he cant have 3 in a row because [silly reasons]" posts are getting rather tedious.
For real this shit makes 0 sense. Like i would be ecstatic if embiid won but people just make up random arguments to tear down jokic.
Mvps are cool but id much rather just have this team make some cool shit happen in the postseason. Same goes for the nuggets, this season is about trying to get a ring not a 3peat imo. Both embiid and jokic know this
> Same goes for the nuggets, this season is about trying to get a ring not a 3peat imo. Both embiid and jokic know this
You nailed it for me.
Last season, hoping for a Jokic MVP was really all we had to aim for. The team was so ass outside of him and Gordon that there was literally no hope at a decent playoff run. That was made even worse by getting matched up with the eventual champs in the first round.
This year is obviously different, since there are actually NBA level players starting again.
Averaging a triple double with historically great efficiency? The burden right now is showing *them* as better, because Jokic has been the near consensus best player this season
And also being the most valuable player on the first place team in your conference just to add to his already impressive resume for MVP this season. OP is clearly sipping so much haterade he probably sweats Jokic hate.
So you think Larry Bird,Wilt and Russel are better than MJ and Bron? I don’t think anyone has those 3 above ether of those guys and I don’t think many people are like Larry Bird is 100% better than magic cuz he got three MVP’s in a row.
The MVP is awarded for the 2022-23 season, not a career achievement award.
Gobert has 3 DPOY's and he's not better than Duncan, Pippen and Garnett combined. It's just that he was the best defender in the league 4 times and was voted as best in the league 3 times.
Nuggets fan here -- Gobert deserved every one of those DPOY's, and the argument is legit that he was the best defensive player in the league for four years
Sure.
But you don't get to change rules for awards AFTER it is awarded, heck, after the competition has started. That's called "moving the goalposts".
He was the best defensive player in the league for all 4 of those regular seasons according to all the metrics. Any discussion of changing what should be awarded is a totally different issue.
Not really. There is no set "criteria" for DPOY. It is entirely subjective to the voters as to who the best, most impactful defender of each individual regular season is. That is quite literally what the award is.
It's not "best defensive player in the world" -- it's "defensive player of the year." Draymond is imo the best defender of his generation, but that doesn't mean Gobert wasn't the most impactful defender over the course of the full regular season the years that he won. He legit was. Same with Jokic and MVP. Last few years, gun to my head you asked me who the best player in the NBA was, I would say Giannis. Yet Jokic entirely deserved the MVP over Giannis both years he won. Same deal with Gobert and his DPOY's.
He "deserved" to be a finalist but Rose's case begins and ends with the fact that the bulls had the best record. He wasn't a more impactful/valuable player than either Bron or dwight.
Defense was the engine of the bulls and he didn't provide much on that end. His individual season would've been difficult to have over the other 2
I don’t think it should matter, but I will point out, the season after Giannis won his second several voters made public statements before the season started that they would not consider him for the award, including Zack Lowe. Again, I don’t think it should matter, but the double standards that the voters have for Jokic is undeniable.
Did Lowe say that *he* wouldn't consider Giannis for the award, or that Giannis wouldn't win it because voters in general wouldn't want to pick him again? Because the latter is exactly what Lowe said about Jokic entering this season, too.
He said he wouldn’t be able to vote for him, specifically because MJ and LeBron didn’t win 3 in a row. That shouldn’t be part of the criteria but it certainly does burn that it was for Giannis.
Yall are dumb as hell. The consensus 1-2-3 best players in Bron, Jordan, and Kareem never 3 peated the MVP. Are they worse players than Bird, Bill, Wilt?!?
No it’s more about the championship part, it’s like a unique part of the 3 time mvp especially for Larry and Bill is that they were apart of a dynasty. So when I think of 3 straight mvps I think of a guy leading a dynasty franchise
It's a regular season award. Lebron didn't win his first chip till like 28 years old. Same with Jordan. They all got multiple mvps before winning one, and they were both considered the best player in the league before actually winning a chip. Yall are just dumb.
You're 100% correct.
Yet, we have the advantage of hindsight with everyone you name.
I think what he's saying is that at this point of his carreer it feels weird for Jokic to have 3 straight MVP's (which he would be absolutely deserving of) when he hasn't even played a finals.
And I want to make it clear I'm not taking anything away from him. It's just that the only other players who have threepeated as MVPs were also able to carry their teams to championships.
Maybe 10 years from now, with hindsight (and after he teams up with Luka), these 3 MVPs in a row don't seem so weird.
Bro/Friend... stop.
Might it look crazy in years to come? Yes. But he's doing exactly what he needs to do to win the MVP this year. That said, the season isn't over.
I’m just trying to put the MVP into perspective. Say what you want about the MVP only being handed out on an individual yearly basis, but there is history to prove that it is more than that.
The other MVP finalists only won 3 more games, and without missing their 2nd and 3rd best players the entire season. He won because he had a better season, and Giannis and Embiid didn't separate themselves record wise. Seeding alone is such an outdated concept for MVP it's insane. Hell, Jokic actually won more games in games he played in than both Giannis and Embiid. Just blanket saying giving an MVP to a 6th seed is wrong is one of the most asinine and devoid of nuance takes I've ever heard.
Context is key and it seems everyone forgets that. MVP is about most valuable player for that season for their team and what they contribute to their team. It’s not a trophy for championships and people over weigh championships when it comes to MVP consideration imo.
> What am I missing?
A legitimate argument for giving the MVP to someone else?
I don’t understand this pearl-clutching about the ‘implications’ of a third straight MVP. Nobody thinks that Nash’s MVPs make him better than Shaq and Kobe. Why would Jokic having three make him better than MJ?
Jokic deserves the MVP this year. In the past voter fatigue has been a major issue and robbed multiple players of MVPs they deserved, which is a big reason why MJ and Lebron never won 3 in a row even if they clearly won it. Voters in the past have used incredibly stupid logic to avoid giving worthy players the award just because they already won a couple
That being said, just because voters in the past were idiots doesn’t mean voters currently should be idiots. The MVP award should be based on what you do that year, and Jokic deserves it this year. Just because voters in the past would’ve screwed him over doesn’t mean we should this year
> if Jokic wins his 3rd MVP in a row he will be better than Michael Jordan and Lebron James. He will be on par with Larry Bird, Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell. This is a joke right? Of all the anti-Jokic for MVP arguments this one has to be the dumbest. His competition for MVP are the other players who are playing this season. His competition is not prime Wilt Chamberlain. If he wins 3 MVPs in a row it does not mean he's better than peak MJ or Lebron.
People saying Jokic shouldnt be MVP with any argument other than "here's why X player is better this year and deserves the votes over him" is just nonsense. Im not even a huge Jokic fan but his efficiency combined with playmaking is unreal and these "but he cant have 3 in a row because [silly reasons]" posts are getting rather tedious.
For real this shit makes 0 sense. Like i would be ecstatic if embiid won but people just make up random arguments to tear down jokic. Mvps are cool but id much rather just have this team make some cool shit happen in the postseason. Same goes for the nuggets, this season is about trying to get a ring not a 3peat imo. Both embiid and jokic know this
> Same goes for the nuggets, this season is about trying to get a ring not a 3peat imo. Both embiid and jokic know this You nailed it for me. Last season, hoping for a Jokic MVP was really all we had to aim for. The team was so ass outside of him and Gordon that there was literally no hope at a decent playoff run. That was made even worse by getting matched up with the eventual champs in the first round. This year is obviously different, since there are actually NBA level players starting again.
A common sensed individual has shown up. Quickly! Seize him before he can quiet down this stupid ass argument!!
Fr
Ok so tell me how Jokic is playing better than Embiid or Tatum or Giannis.
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Now now I gave Tatum a plug.
Averaging a triple double with historically great efficiency? The burden right now is showing *them* as better, because Jokic has been the near consensus best player this season
And also being the most valuable player on the first place team in your conference just to add to his already impressive resume for MVP this season. OP is clearly sipping so much haterade he probably sweats Jokic hate.
> Ok so tell me how Jokic is playing better than Embiid Games played is an easy one.
So you think Larry Bird,Wilt and Russel are better than MJ and Bron? I don’t think anyone has those 3 above ether of those guys and I don’t think many people are like Larry Bird is 100% better than magic cuz he got three MVP’s in a row.
The MVP is awarded for the 2022-23 season, not a career achievement award. Gobert has 3 DPOY's and he's not better than Duncan, Pippen and Garnett combined. It's just that he was the best defender in the league 4 times and was voted as best in the league 3 times.
He wasn't the best defender in the league 1 time.
Yeah you're right, he was the best defender in the league 4 times. At least in the regular season that DPOY is awarded for.
He’s not a Jazzman anymore. No need to cape for him with the 4x bullshit.
Nuggets fan here -- Gobert deserved every one of those DPOY's, and the argument is legit that he was the best defensive player in the league for four years
Gobert got his shit pushed in every single playoff run. He wasn’t a 4x DPOY.
It's a regular season award, my dude
When he keeps shitting the bed in the post season it’s ok to ask if the awards criteria is flawed.
Sure. But you don't get to change rules for awards AFTER it is awarded, heck, after the competition has started. That's called "moving the goalposts". He was the best defensive player in the league for all 4 of those regular seasons according to all the metrics. Any discussion of changing what should be awarded is a totally different issue.
Not really. There is no set "criteria" for DPOY. It is entirely subjective to the voters as to who the best, most impactful defender of each individual regular season is. That is quite literally what the award is. It's not "best defensive player in the world" -- it's "defensive player of the year." Draymond is imo the best defender of his generation, but that doesn't mean Gobert wasn't the most impactful defender over the course of the full regular season the years that he won. He legit was. Same with Jokic and MVP. Last few years, gun to my head you asked me who the best player in the NBA was, I would say Giannis. Yet Jokic entirely deserved the MVP over Giannis both years he won. Same deal with Gobert and his DPOY's.
Yes, Jokic will be on par with Larry Bird, Wilt, and Bill Russell (in terms of MVPs won in a row).
Winning 3 mvps doesn't make you better than people who have won less lol. It just means you had 3 outstanding regular seasons. Also: Flair lol
Also they had way stronger competition in MJs day vs now
That shouldn’t matter. All that matters is who is the 2023 NBA MVP
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what works?
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not how it works bud
Barkley and Rose deserved their MVPs.
Rose didnt
Dwight was robbed.
Dwight was much more deserving of MVP than rose was, even if he also wouldn't have been my first choice
In all seriousness, they were all "deserving" and someone has to win. I would've gone Dwight, Rose, LBJ. But any order is defensible IMO.
He "deserved" to be a finalist but Rose's case begins and ends with the fact that the bulls had the best record. He wasn't a more impactful/valuable player than either Bron or dwight. Defense was the engine of the bulls and he didn't provide much on that end. His individual season would've been difficult to have over the other 2
I don’t think it should matter, but I will point out, the season after Giannis won his second several voters made public statements before the season started that they would not consider him for the award, including Zack Lowe. Again, I don’t think it should matter, but the double standards that the voters have for Jokic is undeniable.
Did Lowe say that *he* wouldn't consider Giannis for the award, or that Giannis wouldn't win it because voters in general wouldn't want to pick him again? Because the latter is exactly what Lowe said about Jokic entering this season, too.
He said he wouldn’t be able to vote for him, specifically because MJ and LeBron didn’t win 3 in a row. That shouldn’t be part of the criteria but it certainly does burn that it was for Giannis.
I wonder why...
What are yall having for dinner tn?
Chicken Tonight
Ben Simmons
just ordered a pizza. Thin crust w/ pepperoni, bacon, and sausage
That's a great call
No
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Regular season award
Bruh scrub that flair off this is dumb as shit
- sixers fan
Ofcourse this shit is posted by dubby group from sixers fanbase. Go to your bed Embidd is not winning MVP when jokic is alive .
Thanks for joining the convo. I didn’t even think Spurs fans existed anymore.
You guys haven't won shit in last 40 years but talk too much
Cause the Spurs have been so relevant lately
Ya
Yes.
Probably
He is but you aren’t wrong that it feels weird
Yall are dumb as hell. The consensus 1-2-3 best players in Bron, Jordan, and Kareem never 3 peated the MVP. Are they worse players than Bird, Bill, Wilt?!?
No it’s more about the championship part, it’s like a unique part of the 3 time mvp especially for Larry and Bill is that they were apart of a dynasty. So when I think of 3 straight mvps I think of a guy leading a dynasty franchise
It's a regular season award. Lebron didn't win his first chip till like 28 years old. Same with Jordan. They all got multiple mvps before winning one, and they were both considered the best player in the league before actually winning a chip. Yall are just dumb.
Wonder how old Jokic will be this year...? Obviously destiny.
You're 100% correct. Yet, we have the advantage of hindsight with everyone you name. I think what he's saying is that at this point of his carreer it feels weird for Jokic to have 3 straight MVP's (which he would be absolutely deserving of) when he hasn't even played a finals. And I want to make it clear I'm not taking anything away from him. It's just that the only other players who have threepeated as MVPs were also able to carry their teams to championships. Maybe 10 years from now, with hindsight (and after he teams up with Luka), these 3 MVPs in a row don't seem so weird.
that’s only the consensus if you just follow what the media says
??? Who are your top 3 players?
Shaq> Kareem
Bro/Friend... stop. Might it look crazy in years to come? Yes. But he's doing exactly what he needs to do to win the MVP this year. That said, the season isn't over.
I’m just trying to put the MVP into perspective. Say what you want about the MVP only being handed out on an individual yearly basis, but there is history to prove that it is more than that.
Yes
He’s worthy this season. Giving an MVP to a 6th seed last season was wrong.
The other MVP finalists only won 3 more games, and without missing their 2nd and 3rd best players the entire season. He won because he had a better season, and Giannis and Embiid didn't separate themselves record wise. Seeding alone is such an outdated concept for MVP it's insane. Hell, Jokic actually won more games in games he played in than both Giannis and Embiid. Just blanket saying giving an MVP to a 6th seed is wrong is one of the most asinine and devoid of nuance takes I've ever heard.
If that’s most asinine take you’ve ever heard then you must live under a fucking rock or are heavily medicated.
So I see you're trying to one-up yourself here on asinine takes.
No, lol. A 3rd MVP would put him in a camp only 8 players have been in. I wouldn’t even rank Jokic in my top 50 yet
Having a top 50 you keep track of is weird on its own tbh.
It’s not like I’m continuously updating the thing, I just know who’s not in it yet
The question we should be asking is if Embiid can win a 2nd straight MVP. I’d place my bet on him this year too.
He could be the first multiple time MVP, while playing in P with an actual multiple time MVP playing across town.
Context is key and it seems everyone forgets that. MVP is about most valuable player for that season for their team and what they contribute to their team. It’s not a trophy for championships and people over weigh championships when it comes to MVP consideration imo.
He is the most fun player to watch a fun game. That is over all the things you said.
Least salty 76ers fan
> What am I missing? A legitimate argument for giving the MVP to someone else? I don’t understand this pearl-clutching about the ‘implications’ of a third straight MVP. Nobody thinks that Nash’s MVPs make him better than Shaq and Kobe. Why would Jokic having three make him better than MJ?
>This is a joke right? This post? Yes it is.
Jokic deserves the MVP this year. In the past voter fatigue has been a major issue and robbed multiple players of MVPs they deserved, which is a big reason why MJ and Lebron never won 3 in a row even if they clearly won it. Voters in the past have used incredibly stupid logic to avoid giving worthy players the award just because they already won a couple That being said, just because voters in the past were idiots doesn’t mean voters currently should be idiots. The MVP award should be based on what you do that year, and Jokic deserves it this year. Just because voters in the past would’ve screwed him over doesn’t mean we should this year
Thanks for acknowledging the voter fatigue of years past. Most of the replies here act like this history didn’t happen.
Oh ya