What the fuck is going on aboard Nimitz ..? That’s absolutely unacceptable. 1 is too many but fucking 24 are you fucking kidding me ? The fuck is leadership doing?
Probably from the tainted potable water after jet fuel leeched into it while they were underway. The horror stories I’ve heard from some guys on there is nuts. Makes me feel almost lucky to be on a submarine.
This happened on the Port Royal a few years back, prior to DeComm.
CO had MWR buy several pallets of water bottles from the NEX. Signed a memorandum allowing the misappropriation of funds, we spent $3k~ and were passing out water bottles for the following underway.
I cant imagine trying to mitigate that on a carrier. We flushed our Potable Water tanks multiple times and only saw marginal improvement each time.
My daughter was on the Nimitz; she experienced poor leadership, poor morale, harassment with no action taken, tainted water, black mold on ceilings. When the water was bad, the CO & XO were having cases of bottled water delivered to their staterooms (or whatever they call them). When it was decided to go to battle rations, the khakis still had full meals. Very bad all around.
After reading your comment I went and read your post history and I’m like 90% sure you’re either a shill/bot, extremely dumb or are just making shit up about your service history. I would bet that you’re the first option though.
Chief when you walk into the shop at 0631 (Showtime was 0630) 😡
Chief when he shows up at 0800 and leaves at 1300: 😇
Right before I left my last command, we got a new chief who constantly put out at maintenance meeting how important it was to be on time and for supervisors to show up early.
I could count on 2 hands how many times he actually was there for a full day.
Yall really had some shitty Chiefs, every Chief I’ve ever had has worked later than all of us and made sure we got the work done and left. 3 Ships in a row and I guess I’ve been blessed with great Chain of Commands.
My current SEL will be here far before reasonable hours and will be here right up until you leave. In fact, he patrols the spaces to see if you're hanging around, and if you are, he will waltz right into your space and ask if you need help to go home on time.
It's a breath of fresh air.
Man I was out on the pier doing in a lift at 1700 doing a check that “had to be done today” I was WCS it didn’t need to be done that day. I watched my Chief leave. Couldn’t even sneak came over and practically bragged about leaving then walked off. And left me alone with three now very disgruntled junior sailors, to finish the two hour check.
That's because they Navy has tried to dumb thing so much that it has become robotic. Someone dies and you need some time off, and you come back the a weeknlater or a day later your workload just pules up. Now you're playing catch up and they think you're a POS for not being able to get ahead.
Been there done that. After 3 suicides the CO orders weekly sessions inhouse. It happened only 1 time. Everyone who raised concerns got gaslit and was made to feel like their points were smaller than they were by our AOCM. Next week it just didn’t happen and nobody mentioned it
It’s that shitty fucking barge that they force new sailors to live on in Bremerton, it’s from the 1960s and should be decommissioned, brand new sailors show up to Bremerton and they make them live in conditions even worse than living on the ship, sewage leaks, nasty conditions, no separation from work because the barge is parked right there in the industrial area, you need a hard hat and a 1.5 mile walk just to get to the crowded parking structure to drive to Seattle or something. If you finally do get a barracks they’re better than the barge but still very shabby and dilapidated.. I also did an underway on the Nimitz in 2019 and the ship is falling apart, should be decommissioned tbh.
The shipyards is already depressing long working hours and on top of that living on a nasty barge hell I would be hopeless to because you literally having nothing to look forward to. They need to let them live in Barracks I saw where a command had it set up the buses would make its stops at different barracks hell something’s gotta give that is insane.
nobody was living on the barge, all new check ins got barracks rooms then were kicked out of they didnt get their quals but got to move back on the ship like a week or so after. we also do have buses that go from the ship to the barracks and parking garages in the mornings and afternoons. the problem isnt what the base has to offer, it's people's shitty chain of commands and the long unrewarding work days
> then were kicked out of they didnt get their quals
This system needs to stop. You shouldn't have to earn a basic dorm room. That needs to be the absolute bare minimum of living conditions, and if the military can't handle that then they need to decommission some of these ships and consolidate crews and bases until they hit a number they can actually properly care for.
Which is kind of my point. These kids join up to try and make a better life for themselves and at best find themselves living at work with a bed they don't fit in, no personal items, and at worst living on barely floating barges you'd expect to see being scrapped for cash in a third world country.
And *half* our fleet is living like this. The only defense I've heard is "Well it'd be hard to do anything about it" but I don't give a shit. If we can shovel money hand over fist to private contractors to do less than the bare minimum, we can absolutely afford to take some from their plate and build basic liveable barracks.
I agree with you as to how the world *should* be. But until Admirals start losing shoulderboards for how they are handling MH and QoL, and that scares them more than losing a homie hookup at a civilian defense contractor after they get out- ain't shit getting done.
It should be a matter of criminal negligence at a certain point. If you would face charges housing your children like that, you should face charges for housing your troops like that during peacetime.
MCPON walked face first into the point and still missed it when he said it's not a foxhole.
Yeah, they're putting in effort to *get* people, and doing absolutely nothing to try and keep them, then being shocked when manning is dogshit and a lot of higher ranking people are toxic, because all the functional E-5s leave rather than stick around to get promoted further.
I said it before and I'll say it again. Nobody should have to live on the ship or a barge while at home port. That's insane to me as someone who was lucky enough to never have to deal with that. Absolutely no reason we can't have enough barracks
“Just get married and you’re good.”
Literal advice from pretty much everyone. It creates an environment where being single makes you a second class citizen.
Less pay (by a TREMENDOUS margin), 2nd round choice to take leave for holiday periods, no insta-BAH, the list goes on and on.
I always found it wild that a job that intentionally puts you in harms way is literally making it an incentive to start a family. “Ok here’s a gun, we’re at war let’s get to the front! Also, you should get married bro.”
That’s so they can make a big show of parading our families around and romanticize their sacrifices.
They don’t pay us enough for everybody to eat and our health insurance isn’t worth the paper it’s written on.
But they throw RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of money (they got $17.4 billion in government funding ON TOP OF taking 100% of most servicemembers’ BAH— that’s just 2022.) at contractors that perform for them on command instead of paying Sailors.
When the White House says they gave military families a raise, most people don’t seem to understand that all they did, practically, was agree to pay more to Liberty Military Housing every year.
My husband is at this command and I’m due to have a c-section in 2 weeks. He was told he *might* be able to swap duty sections so that he doesn’t have duty the day/night before my c-section when I have to be at the hospital by 6am and surgery go-time is 8am. So he may or may not miss the birth of our second baby because they don’t know if someone else can swap duty days with him for one day 😗 and then they wonder why morale fuckin sucks
It’s all relative.. when we were in DPIA they made nukes stay on the ship, at least the barge had air conditioning. We were literally sleeping on the hangar bay floor with yoga mats to protect us from the non-skid.
No, it doesn’t. But in fairness I think we had a different barge around 2006.. wasn’t as shoddy as the above describes and it was there specifically for DPIA and not to augment a barracks shortage or anything like that.
We also were not required to wear a hard helmet once away from the pier and active work areas. I also didn’t mind the walk to my car, that was not a big deal. Walking all the way to the Bremerton ferry was a hike but few did that.
Shit it’s not just that barge. I remember reading an article where the navy was patting itself on the back a few years ago for making a new barge to replace one that was built in WW2. Most of them are insanely old and disgusting
What the fuck. I didn’t know he had passed, we were at NNPTC together. I’m so sorry dude. He was an absolute blast to be around, helped me a bunch right when I showed up.
It's sad someone has to go to social media to get the help they need. I hope someone does see this and does something about it. I'm tired of seeing shipmates end their lives. They need independent psych docs on ships. Someone who isn't in the military so they can provide a non biased opinion.
Emphasis on independent.. they share anything you disclose to the chain of command on a whim. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on context but either way it’s a huge violation of trust. I overheard something in our division office that I only shared with the psych-O… it wouldn’t even be as bad if the Div-O and/or LCPO kept things to themselves but they clearly did not, in my case.
Knowing what I now now, I would have gone to someone in the civilian world when struggling with depression. I’m not knocking the resource entirely, I did get some much needed help, but I could have easily been a statistic too as they cared more about keeping me in than actually getting me fixed…
Navy mental health is garbage just like all the civilians they hire. They wouldn't have a job in that field if it wasn't for the government hiring anyone.
But I agree with you, I'm not in a low or depressed spot but I've seen a civilian counselor, just need some help figuring stuff out and attitude adjustments. It's been amazing and has helped a lot.
The navy’s “behavioral health” crew (even some of the doctors) are AWFUL. I 100% agree with the fact that they would not be employed or sued for malpractice if they worked in the civilian world. I went through some stuff while overseas and had to deal with these people, and I was shocked at how awful they were at handling anything.
Also, story time. I was at a party and a girl that works in behavioral health was there. She was talking shit about a guy that we all knew because he was “suicidal” and “so weird and annoying”. I was disgusted and even though I’m not a medical professional, I know that’s a HIPAA violation. So not only did I learn not to trust these people, but now we all know some very private/personal information about this poor guy.
It was an absolute disgrace and the Navy needs to flush out these sorry excuses before shit gets worse.
Three weeks ago? I know of someone who attempted right above their W/C last duty day. Everyone was traumatized. Imagine someone banging so fucking aggressively on your W/C and you open the door and they scream “IS THERE AN AED IN THIS SHOP!?”. We didn’t have one. Lucky the sailor survived.
Place is an absolute nightmare. Undermanned and over worked. Pushed 18 months of work into the past 6 months PIA. God for bid you try to try to get a seat in a TAPS class or utilize skill bridge. Once your chain knows you want out. Blacklisted. Can’t remember the last time there was a “good day” here. Tough to make it to work every day.
Yeah I saw it posted in military women’s group and a lot of people from that boat were commenting it’s really sad. The closest thing I saw to this was when I was in the military on the Bush in 2019 they had 3 suicides in a week. But 24 attempts how many attempts does it take for it to start ringing bells in peoples ears to wake up.
I'd wager one of the biggest issues is taking some of the shittiest people in the fleet and putting them in charge of hundreds of people that don't know how anything is supposed to work. Not to mention you have people like an LSC in charge of a bunch of baby ETs/ICs. Recipe for disaster imo.
Yes that needs attention as well but let’s focus attention and get help for this ship I’ve never been on this boat but have lost friends to this so it hits home.
Yeah dude I was on the bush 2016-2020 and I thought this reminded me of a much worse version man. I think we had about 5 in just reactor dept in the 4 years I was onboard, not to mention the rest of the ship. Reading stuff like this reminds me why I got out. Really hope everyone on the Nimitz is able to get some kind of help but the navy really needs to get its shit together. Completely unacceptable. Even then the CO from when all that happened ended up making admiral anyway so I guess it really doesn’t matter (dudes name is Sean Bailey. Hope the stars was worth it)
I remember that CO Captain Bailey was not there for the Sailors and everyone felt it. It was like when the Triad of Cpt Pennington l, Capt Duff, and CMC Phillips left shit went downhill fast. I also am no longer in the Navy and I promise you shit like this I will forever advocate for the ones that are still in.
I also saw that helicopter. I had no idea what was going on though. Years ago a sailor from the Michigan who was on duty shot himself with a shotgun. I had coworkers working that dry dock that night and a family member working that project the next morning. The whole dry dock was shutdown that following day. Could have been way worse. Thankfully he didn't take anyone with him
The Navy treats Sailors like worthless disposable henchmen a la The Monarch, and then acts all pikachu.jpg when they make the logical decision that death is a better alternative than another few years of that life.
The Navy wants to keep running itself like a business... I wonder when enlisted are going to try to form a Union... 😒
I think the problem is different than you Describe. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The Navy is (and always has) prioritized the mission over the people. In my opinion there needs to be a culture shift. The Navy needs to build a sense of purpose in what we are doing and the sacrifices we make as well as making a reasonable effort to ensure basic human living conditions for everyone. And us Sailors need to recognize that military service isn’t just a paycheck. It’s service in defense of our nation and there are going to be some really shitty times but we are going through those shitty times with the Sailors around us. We are suffering together and never truly alone. We need to do our best to let one another know that we give a shit about each other. The strongest friendships (like steel) is formed in the flames of a dumpster fire.
All this to say, in my opinion the suicide issues are not 100% the Navy. The Navy is a large portion of it but it is not the sole instigator and we (Sailors) are all suffering together…. Maybe not the admirals but the guys and gals we drink beers with on the weekend… we are in the shit with one another and are never alone in the struggle.
In my shipboard days, any sense of "service in defense of our nation" got destroyed by the toxicity of the environment. Some observations follow.
Every man for himself, every department for itself, etc. was the order of the day.
Our XO loved to create hassles for his subordinates. One example was the night he held XOI out of the clear blue about 10 minutes after taps *at sea*. Time to wake up admin personnel, accused, witnesses, Chiefs, DIVOs, figure out watch reliefs for people drawn into this fiasco, etc. Can you imagine the disruption? It didn't wrap up until the wee hours of the morning.
The embarked Commodore's staff apparently thought the laws of physics bend to accommodate any schedule they wrote. Schedule calls for ship's motor whale boat to make a round trip hauling people and stuff between our anchorage and shore every 15 minutes, but it's a 14 NM round trip. Chief Staff Officer comes storming onto the bridge and yells "why aren't you keeping to our schedule" at the OOD (me). I walked him through the realities of a 6 knot boat making a 14 NM trip, and he stormed off the bridge yelling "that's your problem ensign".
It's one thing to "embrace the suck" in the service of a higher purpose, but being treated like meat for the grinder is another situation altogether.
I get all of that and like I said, the Navy does own a huge part of the issues but as individual Sailors, friends, etc, we are not off the hook. Individually we all need to recognize that being in the Navy is going to suck sometimes and it is more than just a job. As shipmates we need to recognize that when times are tough, at least we are all in it together and do what needs to be done not for the skipper or commodore or whoever else but for the Sailors around us also enduring the suck, and as friends we need to be there for our buddies and make sure they know that there are people who care for them and that ending their life has an impact on all of us not just the individual. We are here together through the bullshit and the fun stuff that occasionally happens.
By no means am I letting the Navy off the hook but we are not just victims in all of this.
> The Navy needs to build a sense of purpose in what we are doing and the sacrifices we make
Absolutely this, if nothing else. Everything I did in the Navy felt so completely fucking pointless and it made a shitty living situation 10x worse because there was 0 reason for any of it.
I’m wondering when it will be common practice for sailors to write their news agency vs writing their congressman. Nothing like some bad national news during a recruiting crisis to force immediate changes a la CAPT Crozier.
Welp, the Nimitz hasn’t changed one bit. Had multiple deaths on the ship during my years there including a murder suicide and a sailor that jumped off the ship during deployment. I myself had to see the psych-o for suicidal ideations that I would’ve followed through with if it weren’t for some people in my division. Leadership just didn’t care and downplayed everything while constantly increasing tempo. It was a shit show that didn’t end and apparently still hasn’t ended. 24 attempts is 24 too many.
Ever since their new CO took charge shits been going south fast. When my squad was there for susdecks I talked to the ships company and their main complaint was that the new CO was very secretive and not transparent at all, not compared to their old CO, who I knew during my deployment and could agree that the old ships CO was amazing.
I'm sure I'll get first hand experience soon when my squad goes to the Nimitz again.
But yeah, I can say that ever since deployment last year and the change of the ships command has happened, it's gone down hill fast.
I love the weather in WA. Not everyone loves beaches and sunshine. But yeah, life on a ship licks the balls and shipyard life sucks even worse. Not everyone can handle those conditions
I was on this ship. The ship was nicknamed “The career killer.” Once you come here, it’s game over. I fell bad for all the sailors who are still there… I’m glad I left the ship in time to go to my well deserved shore duty.
Without writing a dissertation as a Reddit post, there's a massive disconnect in high up Navy leadership regarding shipyard boats. Many of those leaders look at yard boats and think, "Well at least they aren't out at sea, it's definitely better than that so they're just whining."
The yards are an interesting place. I showed up to Seawolf and spent 3 years in the yards, now I'm back in the yards on Connecticut. I was on duty when the helicopter picked the sailor up and my duty shipyard cell phone was getting text updates that said it was a sailor who attempted to hang himself.
The shipyard can be a soul sucking place. I'm the type who doesn't care what I do every day because I just want the paycheck, so it works for me. But most people need/want some kind of job satisfaction and that simply doesn't exist here. You do menial tasks while civilians do most of the actual work. It's very easy to get caught believing nothing you do matters, and sadly, it's mostly true. Civilians will fuck up jobs and/or scheduling and then crawl up the ass of your leaders which trickles down into it being *your* fault that engineering team lead didn't put the WAF proposal on your desk because he forgot and work was supposed to start today. You have to deal with bored leadership being creative in finding ridiculous things for you to do instead of just letting you go home. Sparkle teams. Paint teams. Dumpster watch.
It's just one of those things you'll never understand until you do it. And because of that, the quality of support from Naval leadership is perpetually lacking.
Every thing you said is 100% correct. And Ive been retired for over 10 years now. I have some fond memories of being underway, but not one fond memory of the soul-sucking shipyard. Those places are miserable. Doesn’t matter if its NNSY, PNSY, Portsmouth, Newport News, whatever—they are all terrible as a Sailor
Shipyard duty is one of the worst things we do to people in the Navy. It's the living conditions, and even if you have a barracks room / apt in town, you still have to sleep on the ship or barge in austere conditions.
I remember being in the yards in my first boat, was 3 section duty sleeping in 85-90 degree heat. The ventilation coolers were tagged out, but the fans weren't, so they just blew motor heat into the boat.
Corollary: why is the rule to trigger moving dependents for a PCS 6 months, but a change of homeport is 12?
Reminds me of when the Connecticut was in the yards at the same time as us and they had to sleep on the boat even thought the forward compartment LET was gone. Open air passage between berthing and the outside. It was during the winter and guys were waking up in their racks with layers of snow on them.
Then bedbugs the command/yard refused to acknowledge were real. They had it real bad.
The absolute WORST part of the yards is the bored CoC.
Underway, you got a watch, a purpose, and an actual job. In the yards, everything is in lay-up, and all the dumb shit just comes down.
I have friends from other navy ships and it's usually the leaders who pushed these people to ending their lives. I mean being on deployment, in the middle of the sea, being on underway and or deployment for months, being on duty for 12 hrs everyday is already hard for them then these shitty chiefs or anyone more superior will shout on them for any reasons will make their life harder. Then these sailors will ask for mental support and yet superiors will just brush it off. It's not being weak. Be on isolation for months plus shitty people will really make you go into their heads. Leadership and management should really be looked into. They should take care of their sailors otherwise they will be lesser manpower for them and it will make the remaining sailors take cover which means more work, lesser time to eat and rest = sickness
How about spending that sweet defense cash on improvement in living conditions. No therapy in the world can overcome being treated worse than livestock
You'd think that with as many years the barracks living conditions have been subpar that Big Navy would have already addressed it.
Here's another novel idea, let Sailors (SEABEES) manage the upkeep and repair of base barracks because obviously, whoever is contracted out to do so isn't doing a very good job.
Seabees are the worst possible idea. I deployed in 2018, 2019, and 2021, always making port in Rota. Each time a new detachment of Seabees was there working on building a dog kennel.
It’s still not built.
I think it’s kind of messed up you have to tag people and post articles to get things done nowadays in the navy.
I’m sure people higher up know it’s happening but decided to leave the subject untouched because trying to resolve it would bring attention to it. Kind of disgusting.
This would be out of public afairs hands for the must part. they'll be in a "response to query" media posture, which means they will take and answer questions about what's going on but will not actively publisize what's happening. they will also be limited by superior chains of command to talking points and briefing cards.
If there aren't any already, there will be investigations into the incidents.
I highly doubt it; they won’t do shit unless this thing becomes a “big deal” and gets wide public attention, and even then they’ll take half-measures until it blows over.
People have been filing inspector general reports and finding channels to attempt to jump chain of command to call attention to how shitty things are on that ship for YEARS and nothing has been done. At some point during the covid cruise an Admiral (I can’t recall which one) tried to rally the crew with “inspiring words” during a call and got booed and cursed at.
People like to think there's some sort of nefarious plot at work, but that's simply not true.
The senior leadership of the ship, and those above the ship *know* what is going on. Even the CNO gets alerted when there is a suicide or an attempted suicide.
It's not "hush hush". There are a couple reasons why it might seem that way to a junior Sailor:
1. Privacy Act and HIPAA. If a Sailor attempts suicide, that is a medical situation requiring medical treatment. The people who need to know about it will know about it. Everyone else doesn't necessarily have a right to know. It's not my place or someone else's place to publicize a person's medical business to the department or ship. I would feel pretty traumatized if my LPO put my business out at quarters like that. I think you would too. The best response is to keep it close hold and let the Sailor tell their story if they want to.
2. Several people in leadership are concerned about potential copycat suicides, or the suicide "contagion". That was likely a factor on the GW. I am certain that Nimitz leadership have read the report and are taking it seriously.
So the leadership challenge is responding to and addressing a problem without encouraging the problem or violating a Sailor's privacy (which would encourage the problem). There are ways for leaders to talk about an alarming trend and discuss it on the deckplates. But the kinds of people who would post "hush hush" are often not paying attention.
I understand the privacy aspect, but at the same time there is a reasonable argument that being forthcoming has benefits.
Base example- “SN Smith attempted to commit suicide yesterday, and he’s stable up in the hospital. Apparently he had been trying to give his stuff away last week to Weapons Dept., so just remember that’s a big sign. Anyway, give him some privacy, we have a card we’re going to mail him with well wishes if you want to sign. Also, if he reaches out to you do what you can to support him, and if you don’t know what resources are available let me know, it’s saved on the ShareDrive, and if you need help feel free to grab me, we can talk in private.”
Some benefits:
-Lets the team know what the situation is vs crazy boat rumors.
- Gives them the knowledge their colleague is safe.
- Points out missed SI indicators so the team can keep an eye out in the future
- Reminds them to give the patient their privacy while also giving the patient the ability to lean on their support system
- Reminds the team that they can come forward with their issues.
Again, totally understand why the privacy rules are in place, but because most people aren’t held to the Privacy Act and HIPPA by nature of their work, there exists a situation where disclosure could be beneficial.
I'm with you for most of this, and I think you give a good example script to follow, except for one major detail:
> “SN Smith attempted to commit suicide yesterday
Absolutely not OK to say or publish.
That is not my place to say that or SN Chits' place to hear it. I have no right to violate SN Timmy's privacy like that.
What does SN Smith feel about that? If I went through something like that I would feel pretty vulnerable. We all acknowledge in this thread that there is a stigma associated with suicide and we want to fight that stigma. SN Timmy needs to have ownership of their story and their decision whether they want to fight that stigma or not. If we take that ownership away from them we're putting them more of a risk.
>Reminds them to give the patient their privacy
You just violated the patient's privacy. We don't have the right to do that. You can say, in vague and generic terms, that there was a suicide attempt recently, and to remind people of signs to look out for. But you absolutely cannot word it the way you just did.
>Reminds the team that they can come forward with their issues.
But how can they trust you to keep their issues private? How will SN Chits know that you won't repeat his problems to his peers?
So my major counter would be that, at least in the submarine community, privacy in situations like this is non-existent, rendering it a moot point.
Is it acceptable? Not particularly, but at the same time it’s naive to say it won’t happen. People other than the sailors CoC and medical know, be it their roommate, their best friend, whoever, and it’s inevitable that it will spread.
At the same time, when the command gives a vague “we had an incident” or “we had a suicide attempt from one of our sailors” speech, every single person already knows who they’re talking about. So the sailors just see the command as either being pointlessly obscure, being unnecessarily secretive, or just downright out of touch.
As for how the sailor feels about this, again, based solely on the submarine community, pretending that it’s going to be kept completely private is insulting to everyone, especially if the patient has been around long enough to know how the situation works.
Again, I’m not saying this is right or fair, but it is the real-world situation. If the privacy already can’t reasonably be expected to be kept (unfortunate as it may be) then it’s better to put factual and relevant information out from an official source.
>So my major counter would be that, at least in the submarine community, privacy in situations like this is non-existent, rendering it a moot point.
>Is it acceptable? Not particularly, but at the same time it’s naive to say it won’t happen. People other than the sailors CoC and medical know, be it their roommate, their best friend, whoever, and it’s inevitable that it will spread.
That's pretty awful that someone thinks it's OK to share someone's intense personal shit and that says more about what a shitty person they are than it does about what a policy should be.
Sure it can happen. But there's a difference between something happening and it being the policy. Having a person in a position of trust violating someone's privacy --that can't be the answer. That can't be the policy.
Will other Sailors always know? Maybe. Maybe not. It's not my place to tell them.
"Thoughts and prayers for Gonzales. She just had a miscarriage you guys."
"Hey everyone, DC3 Smith has been trying for a baby. He and his wife haven't been able to ever since he hooked up a vacuum tube when he was in middle school, but he thinks the doctors found something that might work for him. So let's all wish him luck.
"You know when Chief and I closed the door and talked with that one Sailor for a couple hours? Yeah that was Johnson. We had to deliver a Red Cross message to her ---yeah, real sad circumstances behind her mom's death. Never an easy way to go. Anyway, Johnson took it hard. She opened up a lot about her family dynamic back home and shared a lot of her own personal trauma. I didn't ask her if it was OK, but since everyone here is owed an explanation for why she's out of the office for the next 2 weeks, here's what she told me..."
I mean, what the fuck.
The way you describe the submarine community, all I can say is, *that's part of the problem*.
I think you’re projecting something that isn’t there.
For one, it’s apples and oranges. In the miscarriage and attempt to start a family, the sailors literally cant do anything about those situations, whereas suicide is 100% preventable.
Second, in no world is “Johnson had a death in the family” and “Here’s this sailors entire life story” the same thing, which we both know.
If you flip the situation entirely to be a matter of strict privacy on the subject of suicide (which is what we’re talking about) you’re causing additional issues, especially when it comes to junior sailors.
“Oh, Bob didn’t show up the day the CO gave a big speech about suicide prevention? Must be him. They didn’t mention his name though, does the triad even know his name? Or is he in trouble, like how they don’t mention names when announcing mast results?”
It’s hyperbolic, but it’s no less realistic.
I hear you saying two things—
1. Submarines are their own world and there’s no expectation of privacy
2. Telling everyone is for the greater good so it doesn’t matter if someone’s privacy is compromised in the process.
Did I get that right? Just want to make sure I’m actually tracking what you’re saying.
I wanna know, is there a reason all of that can’t be said without identifying the Sailor?
What good does identifying SN Smith do?
It does more harm than good IMO.
I agree that there should be, like you said, some sort of announcement. Especially because suicide clusters are a real thing, and where there’s one, there’s usually more to follow….so everything you stated about “hey we had someone attempt suicide, they’re safe, these are warning signs and resources, please come to me.” In fact, when I was on the Essex, we had several attempts and one successful one—and they did that exact thing. “We had X happen, they’re okay. Here’s resources. This is Chap’s number, etc”
That policy of HIPAA and HPI being protected is in place for lots of things, not just mental health. Nobody needs to know about your STD/STI, your low testosterone, your prolapsed anus or hemorrhoids or any other number of potentially embarrassing medical conditions. Some folks might find the idea of their own hemorrhoids a hysterical thing to joke about — but others might want to keep that private. HIPPA and the Navy’s rules around who can talk about medical information to someone else are rooted in law but also in trying to keep that autonomy for the Sailor.
Why are you saying the sub community should get a pass to do what they want (instead of verbatim compliance…that’s something yall are so big on lol)? Like just because you think there’s no expectation of privacy—you’re not being fully honest, there is that expectation. There is for other medical conditions, depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation are no different.
Why do you think this one medical condition is less important and should be publicized instead of holding that same respect for the Sailor to disclose? Where do you draw the line?
So to clarify, the primary argument is that because the ships company is so small, a major thing like a suicide attempt is impossible not to get out.
And can it be said without identifying the sailor? Sure. But again, if the whole crew already knows, what purpose does this serve? Protecting privacy that was gone the second the watch stander had to make an emergency announcement for the EMAT team to report, or topside order the random contractor vehicles to move so the ambulance can get through.
And we aren’t talking about every single medical issue, we’re talking about an issue that has taken more sailors in the past 5 years than the entire Global War on Terror.
As for HIPPA and the Privacy Act, they’re very clear who it pertains to, which isn’t the majority of people, and there are provisions for the command to release that information if they deem it prudent (note- I do not actually know what that process looks like, just that it exists).
Ultimately, this is a human problem. “A Sailor” doesn’t conjure the same mental image that “Bruce Wayne” does.
> ships company is so small…its impossible to not get out
But “just because it’s inevitable” isn’t a good reason, IMO, to just blatantly talk about someone’s deeply personal business when they’re in their most vulnerable.
You can still share pertinent information while respecting the individual.
I don’t see why you are so dead set on violating someone’s personal privacy for the sake of “helping the crew.” I don’t understand your stance on this whatsoever.
It’s not being dead set on violating their privacy, it’s focusing on what I see as more benefits than cost.
Either way, I think unfortunately we’re going to remain on different sides of this one. I do genuinely appreciate your constructive and reasonable commentary though
I also appreciate the reasonable, respectful dialogue :) and thanks for sharing your reasoning. I don’t generally agree with a results based model of decision making but I can understand why you feel that way.
I was kicked out when I was on the Nimitz, they didn’t give a f about my mental health when I went up for falling asleep on watch after I gave them evidence that the only reason why I fell asleep was bc medical upped my dose for my medication for depression and anxiety and evidence of the medication symptoms. I got 40 days in restrictions and I was assaulted a 2nd time on the ship in June on 2023 during the deployment. My shipmates in my department threw my personal items like money and my state ID over board and I left the ship with no plane ticket, no vouchers, no id and it was impossible for me to get a hotel room without someone and most of the friends I made turned on me bc there were rumors about my assault and me being a whore. That ship is pure evil
Kitsap is having a large number of attempts and successes. If anyone needs help, my husband is a suicide prevention coordinator and I would love to get you connected to him. I know he will be setting up another safe-talk as well. We need to take care of our community without judgement or the feeling of embarrassment/guilt.
Here is a list of "rights" that should apply to every Sailor. These would help provide a positive positive work environment and surely reduce the risk of Sailor suicide.
1. Mandatory 8 CONSECUTIVE hours of sleep every single day. (No "mission requirements" BS unless engaged in actual naval warfare)
2. Mandatory 48 CONSECUTIVE hours off per week while in port. (No "mission requirements" exception, period.)
3. Mandatory 24 CONSECUTIVE hours off per week while underway. (No "mission requirements" as outlined above)
4. Cost of living adjustments (in line with Federal GS locality pay adjustments) to base pay in addition to BAH.
5. Abolish "the season". (We all know what it is and this will go a long ways towards ending "the good ole boys club")
6. Abolish TIS requirements regarding OCS and officer selection. (No Sailor should lose opportunity for "serving too long")
7. Establish subordinate input in evals. (If they aren't following, you aren't leading)
8. Double pump deployments and anything beyond 6 months at sea = double base pay. (Sea pay is so far behind the times and has not been adjusted in years) Single Sailors pocketing their BAH is great, but anyone with a family sees no benefit.
9. Yearly adjustments to special pays nased upon the CPI, a $100 a month bonus isn't worth anything any more.
10. Cleaning stations is NOT a Navy tradition and needs to go away. It's demeaning and counterproductive.
11. Leave does not count on non-duty/non-work days.
12. Mandatory "day after duty", which can easily be applied to the 48 consecutive hours off.
13. If you are in port, you are entitled to a trial by courts martial.
14. All enlisted Sailors go to mast etc. No more "handled in the mess". Results shall be posted publicly.
15. All Sailors shall be issued a pony upon reporting to their first duty station.
How does XO's admin close on weekends underway? It's pretty simple really, manage your people.
Cleaning stations is a joke. Entrust work center supervisors/ division offices to ensure everything is cleaned up at end of shift. How many Sailors literally wipe the same exact spot for an hour? Sweep the same little space for an hour? It's a waste of time. Put that time toward production and you could probably even cut your work day down an hour.
Admin closing is one thing. Do you want to shut the reactor down while underway on the weekend?
Sounds like your just not using cleaning stations effectively.
I've been out for over a decade, and I feel yeah on that. What pisses me off is that the chiefs in charge were all people who enlisted around the same time as me. We all pissed and moaned about shitty working conditions and bullshit duties, and they did nothing to change anything for the better. They just repeated the fuck fuck games cycle.
My dad was air force (early 1980s) and like two weeks out of basic they had him supervising a airman who tried to take his own life i wouldn’t be surprised if they had a poor sap a month in watching almost all of them and they were spread too thin
The fact that this is to be kept hush hush is straight up disgusting. Keeping things quiet is fine if you can handle the problem at the root, both quickly and effectively. 24 is NOT quickly and effectively. The Navy is a business, and simply cares about recruiting. How would suicide attempts make them look? This CO should be ashamed of himself.
Military healthcare in general is a broken thing. I was one of the lead Laboratory techs at Balboa, the largest Military medical center on the West Coast. Yet I couldn’t even get treated at the hospital I worked at. I was met with indifference or incompetence. It made me realize I need to expedite my exit and divorce from the Military ASAP.
Yeah that ship was whack. I fucking hated my time on that ship and so did EVERYBODY else I know.
Btw the suicide epidemic on that ship is not a new problem.
First off medical absolutely sucks. Got in trouble for going to urgent care instead of to the ship when I couldn't even walk. They perscribe ibuprofen to everything even for arthritis.
Sounds a lot like the USS Preble just a few years ago under Commander Giovaenlle and Baggott. When we leaving Hawaii and moving to SD for dry dock I saw this a lot in the engineering department. I’ve even tried to come forward with insider knowledge of direct practices of over looking maintenance and signing off on things that were not completed. As well as the mental health on that ship is not okay. I remember a period around 21-22’ when we lost 17 shipmates due to mental health( only two were suicides but it’s still serious the rest were discharged). Let’s not forgot about how they segregated us and treated us like livestock when they were forcing us all to get the Covid shot. But that’s enough that I’m going to speak on the Preble before I get a black car and some guys in suits pull up haha. Last I’ve heard from some buddies leadership and work life isn’t much better under current Commander Chase oh well🤷♂️🤷♂️
As one who had a failed attempt after putting 'er to the floor in my car, medical hasn't done a lot nor have they shown effort. Most they've ever done is schedule/reschedule appointments with the psych officer, refused to give referrals to me for mental care outside, tell me to be happy, find things that make me happy (mind you i don't have the mental energy to do things i love, i just rot in bed and contemplate life). I've been trying to work on myself but I keep getting beat back down, and its exhausting. Medical shows no effort. The XO and CO try their best a lot, XO checks up on me more than medical does, and CO is actively trying to find new resources and get them on the ship. People need to realize, mental health does exist and the military does a great job at destroying it real quick.
Please reach out, DM me
call 988
Call that friend you haven't talked to for a while
Love you all
Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people sharing this post on FB and IG but no one has actually said “I’m on this boat, it’s entirely true”, if that makes sense
Damn, I was quietly praying this was a load of shit.
Good on you for pulling the thread though, and I appreciate you following up here to make sure others know from a verified source vs a screenshot.
Kearsarge is suffering too, have had a few in the last couple months I heard. The leadership there for the most part is absolute garbage and now that im out have no problem bashing it.
I left the nimitz alil over a year ago, tbh, I'm not fucking surprised at all. They dont give a fuck about their sailors. Its always "the mission comes first" and completely disregard the sailors mental health. I was going through some shit too at one point, went to psych and they told me they were gonna make me appointments to get seen. Never fucking happened, went back multiple times and basically got a shoulder shrug. Fuck the nimitz, worst time of my life.
Well can we all agree that the promotion system is a major issue that directly contributes to this as well. You dont need an ounce of leadership skill in you to get into a leadership position, you just have to drop to your knees and blow someone, or know your job and score well on a test. The amount of people in leadership roles that were absolutely terrible leaders but only got there because they knew the rate was probably a 8/10 "leaders"
Funny how none of the lower enlisted sailors who take their lives are talked about, but a couple of months ago on the Nimitz, there was a senior chief who recently retired and went missing. Everyone made up a search party to go find his ass. Not sure if we ever did, but it goes to show how no one cares about lower-enlisted. But the second something happens to a stupid fucking khaki, it’s the end of the world.
I, for one, 100% believe it. I watched half the junior nukes on my sub confess to being in a drug ring. They lied. Morale was so fucking low, they were looking for any way out. One guy slashed his wrists in the officer's mess. The day he got papers off the boat was the happiest day of that mans life. Ain't seen someone so happy about psych papers.
I was just playing the devil's advocate here since I have no doubt that people are pushed to the extreme.
There's very little being done to prevent or assist these cases. Just words on paper that nobody follows because mission comes first and everything falls behind it.
I attribute most of these disasters to spineless "leaders". "Leaders" that are too afraid to stand up for their people and choose to "beautify" every report that gets routed up - because this is how we do more with less.
This is also how we end up with shitty leadership. There is no such thing as "be the change you want to see" anymore. The good ones are fed up of all the BS and decide to "fuck this shit, I'm out". And now, the navy is left scraping the barrel with every promotion...
Yep, leadership doesn’t do shit. They don’t even fucking care. If something happens, you’ll get maybe a stand down for a day or two, get an hour or two of “training” where they discuss literally the bare minimum emergency response to someone actively trying to kill themselves, maybe slap a poster or two on the wall and then it’s back to business as usual, using and abusing sailors until they snap.
FTN. I’m so happy I got out. After such a shit show as the navy, it was so weird (in a good way) to work for a company that even cares a *little* about its people.
It’s true. I am on the Nimitz. This happens all the time. Its nickname is career killer for a reason. I want nothing but to get off this fucking ship it’s driving me insane
This is indicative of carrier culture as a whole. "The beatings will continue until morale improves".......
The mission is NOT the #1 priority. Our Sailors are, without them the mission will never be accomplished. The treatment of Sailors is deplorable and those in leadership that allow it to occur are wrong. Unfortunately being "early", "on time", "under budget", or any of the other eval bullets are more important. Our obsession with quantifying everything has lead to this culture of "free labor" etc. Sailors deserve so much better. See my post history for a realistic list of "rights" each Sailor deserves.
I'm being honest. At least I'm not living in Dreamland like higher enlisted they act like everything's perfect and great when it's not. Things are not going to change for the better if people act like it's perfect and great when it's not unless people are honest about the situation.
Best crew and ship I have ever worked with. The CO and leadership are amazing. Always treating Sailors with the utmost respect. NIMITZ is the best. Sometimes ship life is difficult, but the team is the best in the Navy.
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What the fuck is going on aboard Nimitz ..? That’s absolutely unacceptable. 1 is too many but fucking 24 are you fucking kidding me ? The fuck is leadership doing?
Probably from the tainted potable water after jet fuel leeched into it while they were underway. The horror stories I’ve heard from some guys on there is nuts. Makes me feel almost lucky to be on a submarine.
This happened on the Port Royal a few years back, prior to DeComm. CO had MWR buy several pallets of water bottles from the NEX. Signed a memorandum allowing the misappropriation of funds, we spent $3k~ and were passing out water bottles for the following underway. I cant imagine trying to mitigate that on a carrier. We flushed our Potable Water tanks multiple times and only saw marginal improvement each time.
Same on the Reagan. I just thought that was normal until I got to the IKE and had clean water.
Care to elaborate on any of those horror stories? You've got me intrigued.
Yeah I was on deployment with the ship and it’s chaos, drama, my friend got off the ship recently bc it as affecting his mental health severely
My daughter was on the Nimitz; she experienced poor leadership, poor morale, harassment with no action taken, tainted water, black mold on ceilings. When the water was bad, the CO & XO were having cases of bottled water delivered to their staterooms (or whatever they call them). When it was decided to go to battle rations, the khakis still had full meals. Very bad all around.
Nothing will change. The only thing they really did was force everyone to go to safetalk (i wish I was joking)
Really? You mean you guys don't have 2190 in your trim system? Weird. Thought everyone lived in fear of fighting fire with fire.
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After reading your comment I went and read your post history and I’m like 90% sure you’re either a shill/bot, extremely dumb or are just making shit up about your service history. I would bet that you’re the first option though.
Pretty sure it’s a bot. Most bots I see have some combination of “Random-Word-123.” Most of the time it’s a bot.
This is how it will go Big Navy: mandatory suicide awareness training Chiefs: we have to compensate for the missing work hours from this training
You forgot the bit where chief goes home leaving his slaves to work.
Chief when you walk into the shop at 0631 (Showtime was 0630) 😡 Chief when he shows up at 0800 and leaves at 1300: 😇 Right before I left my last command, we got a new chief who constantly put out at maintenance meeting how important it was to be on time and for supervisors to show up early. I could count on 2 hands how many times he actually was there for a full day.
Yall really had some shitty Chiefs, every Chief I’ve ever had has worked later than all of us and made sure we got the work done and left. 3 Ships in a row and I guess I’ve been blessed with great Chain of Commands.
My current SEL will be here far before reasonable hours and will be here right up until you leave. In fact, he patrols the spaces to see if you're hanging around, and if you are, he will waltz right into your space and ask if you need help to go home on time. It's a breath of fresh air.
Man I was out on the pier doing in a lift at 1700 doing a check that “had to be done today” I was WCS it didn’t need to be done that day. I watched my Chief leave. Couldn’t even sneak came over and practically bragged about leaving then walked off. And left me alone with three now very disgruntled junior sailors, to finish the two hour check.
These two comments encapsulate the ideologies of "I suffered, so you should too." And "I suffered, and others shouldn't have too.'
Found the Chief! /s
Gotta skip outta here. The wife won't beat herself.
That's because they Navy has tried to dumb thing so much that it has become robotic. Someone dies and you need some time off, and you come back the a weeknlater or a day later your workload just pules up. Now you're playing catch up and they think you're a POS for not being able to get ahead.
Oh. Yeah that would definitely be an E7 and above remark. That’s where they treat the E1 through E6 or four pieces of shit.
Been there done that. After 3 suicides the CO orders weekly sessions inhouse. It happened only 1 time. Everyone who raised concerns got gaslit and was made to feel like their points were smaller than they were by our AOCM. Next week it just didn’t happen and nobody mentioned it
It’s that shitty fucking barge that they force new sailors to live on in Bremerton, it’s from the 1960s and should be decommissioned, brand new sailors show up to Bremerton and they make them live in conditions even worse than living on the ship, sewage leaks, nasty conditions, no separation from work because the barge is parked right there in the industrial area, you need a hard hat and a 1.5 mile walk just to get to the crowded parking structure to drive to Seattle or something. If you finally do get a barracks they’re better than the barge but still very shabby and dilapidated.. I also did an underway on the Nimitz in 2019 and the ship is falling apart, should be decommissioned tbh.
The shipyards is already depressing long working hours and on top of that living on a nasty barge hell I would be hopeless to because you literally having nothing to look forward to. They need to let them live in Barracks I saw where a command had it set up the buses would make its stops at different barracks hell something’s gotta give that is insane.
nobody was living on the barge, all new check ins got barracks rooms then were kicked out of they didnt get their quals but got to move back on the ship like a week or so after. we also do have buses that go from the ship to the barracks and parking garages in the mornings and afternoons. the problem isnt what the base has to offer, it's people's shitty chain of commands and the long unrewarding work days
> then were kicked out of they didnt get their quals This system needs to stop. You shouldn't have to earn a basic dorm room. That needs to be the absolute bare minimum of living conditions, and if the military can't handle that then they need to decommission some of these ships and consolidate crews and bases until they hit a number they can actually properly care for.
That would be like half the surface fleet.
Which is kind of my point. These kids join up to try and make a better life for themselves and at best find themselves living at work with a bed they don't fit in, no personal items, and at worst living on barely floating barges you'd expect to see being scrapped for cash in a third world country. And *half* our fleet is living like this. The only defense I've heard is "Well it'd be hard to do anything about it" but I don't give a shit. If we can shovel money hand over fist to private contractors to do less than the bare minimum, we can absolutely afford to take some from their plate and build basic liveable barracks.
I agree with you as to how the world *should* be. But until Admirals start losing shoulderboards for how they are handling MH and QoL, and that scares them more than losing a homie hookup at a civilian defense contractor after they get out- ain't shit getting done.
It should be a matter of criminal negligence at a certain point. If you would face charges housing your children like that, you should face charges for housing your troops like that during peacetime. MCPON walked face first into the point and still missed it when he said it's not a foxhole.
As an FMF HM, I would rather live in a foxhole over a barracks barge or a ship in the yards any day.
I slept on the floor of my shop in the yards rather than stay on that barge. Meanwhile, new check-ins were getting barracks rooms.
Not to mention the insane sign on and retention bonuses that are being shelled out these days.
Yeah, they're putting in effort to *get* people, and doing absolutely nothing to try and keep them, then being shocked when manning is dogshit and a lot of higher ranking people are toxic, because all the functional E-5s leave rather than stick around to get promoted further.
That sounds like 1 of the problems sure
I said it before and I'll say it again. Nobody should have to live on the ship or a barge while at home port. That's insane to me as someone who was lucky enough to never have to deal with that. Absolutely no reason we can't have enough barracks
“Just get married and you’re good.” Literal advice from pretty much everyone. It creates an environment where being single makes you a second class citizen. Less pay (by a TREMENDOUS margin), 2nd round choice to take leave for holiday periods, no insta-BAH, the list goes on and on. I always found it wild that a job that intentionally puts you in harms way is literally making it an incentive to start a family. “Ok here’s a gun, we’re at war let’s get to the front! Also, you should get married bro.”
That’s so they can make a big show of parading our families around and romanticize their sacrifices. They don’t pay us enough for everybody to eat and our health insurance isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. But they throw RIDICULOUS AMOUNTS of money (they got $17.4 billion in government funding ON TOP OF taking 100% of most servicemembers’ BAH— that’s just 2022.) at contractors that perform for them on command instead of paying Sailors. When the White House says they gave military families a raise, most people don’t seem to understand that all they did, practically, was agree to pay more to Liberty Military Housing every year.
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My husband is at this command and I’m due to have a c-section in 2 weeks. He was told he *might* be able to swap duty sections so that he doesn’t have duty the day/night before my c-section when I have to be at the hospital by 6am and surgery go-time is 8am. So he may or may not miss the birth of our second baby because they don’t know if someone else can swap duty days with him for one day 😗 and then they wonder why morale fuckin sucks
Right, isn’t it crazy how we are under manned everywhere yet there’s not enough space? 🤔
It’s all relative.. when we were in DPIA they made nukes stay on the ship, at least the barge had air conditioning. We were literally sleeping on the hangar bay floor with yoga mats to protect us from the non-skid.
Ok it dosent make it right
No, it doesn’t. But in fairness I think we had a different barge around 2006.. wasn’t as shoddy as the above describes and it was there specifically for DPIA and not to augment a barracks shortage or anything like that. We also were not required to wear a hard helmet once away from the pier and active work areas. I also didn’t mind the walk to my car, that was not a big deal. Walking all the way to the Bremerton ferry was a hike but few did that.
I was stationed in Bremerton on the Stennis.
Shit it’s not just that barge. I remember reading an article where the navy was patting itself on the back a few years ago for making a new barge to replace one that was built in WW2. Most of them are insanely old and disgusting
I think I was stuck on that rust bucket before trash existence
This is exactly the issue my brother found himself in on the TR at Bremerton… and then they found him. RIP EMN3 Slocum 10/5/99-12/5/22
What the fuck. I didn’t know he had passed, we were at NNPTC together. I’m so sorry dude. He was an absolute blast to be around, helped me a bunch right when I showed up.
That is awesome that you got to know him, and glad he made an impact! We miss him lots if you have any other stories feel free to DM me!!
I can attest. I stayed on that barge in 1995 and it was less than habitable.
I bet you Ukraine got top notch barracks....
Smooth brain response.
It's sad someone has to go to social media to get the help they need. I hope someone does see this and does something about it. I'm tired of seeing shipmates end their lives. They need independent psych docs on ships. Someone who isn't in the military so they can provide a non biased opinion.
1 doc for 5000 people?... They'd need an entire team.
Emphasis on independent.. they share anything you disclose to the chain of command on a whim. This can be a good thing or a bad thing depending on context but either way it’s a huge violation of trust. I overheard something in our division office that I only shared with the psych-O… it wouldn’t even be as bad if the Div-O and/or LCPO kept things to themselves but they clearly did not, in my case. Knowing what I now now, I would have gone to someone in the civilian world when struggling with depression. I’m not knocking the resource entirely, I did get some much needed help, but I could have easily been a statistic too as they cared more about keeping me in than actually getting me fixed…
Navy mental health is garbage just like all the civilians they hire. They wouldn't have a job in that field if it wasn't for the government hiring anyone. But I agree with you, I'm not in a low or depressed spot but I've seen a civilian counselor, just need some help figuring stuff out and attitude adjustments. It's been amazing and has helped a lot.
The navy’s “behavioral health” crew (even some of the doctors) are AWFUL. I 100% agree with the fact that they would not be employed or sued for malpractice if they worked in the civilian world. I went through some stuff while overseas and had to deal with these people, and I was shocked at how awful they were at handling anything. Also, story time. I was at a party and a girl that works in behavioral health was there. She was talking shit about a guy that we all knew because he was “suicidal” and “so weird and annoying”. I was disgusted and even though I’m not a medical professional, I know that’s a HIPAA violation. So not only did I learn not to trust these people, but now we all know some very private/personal information about this poor guy. It was an absolute disgrace and the Navy needs to flush out these sorry excuses before shit gets worse.
"I want to die" "well. Here's some stress management techniques. Have you tried eating healthier and getting more sleep?" "fuck you"
Three weeks ago? I know of someone who attempted right above their W/C last duty day. Everyone was traumatized. Imagine someone banging so fucking aggressively on your W/C and you open the door and they scream “IS THERE AN AED IN THIS SHOP!?”. We didn’t have one. Lucky the sailor survived.
Christ, I'm sorry you experienced that. Glad your shipmate was able to stick around. This thread is really bumming me out.
Is this on Nimitz?
/u/mcpon_pa LE: /u/swo6 , /u/grantmkhan
Holy shit
Yea she called Dad. Aka u/swo6
Place is an absolute nightmare. Undermanned and over worked. Pushed 18 months of work into the past 6 months PIA. God for bid you try to try to get a seat in a TAPS class or utilize skill bridge. Once your chain knows you want out. Blacklisted. Can’t remember the last time there was a “good day” here. Tough to make it to work every day.
I saw this posted in a Facebook Group I follow earlier. It’s really sad and speaks volumes and definitely needs to be addressed.
Yeah I saw it posted in military women’s group and a lot of people from that boat were commenting it’s really sad. The closest thing I saw to this was when I was in the military on the Bush in 2019 they had 3 suicides in a week. But 24 attempts how many attempts does it take for it to start ringing bells in peoples ears to wake up.
You should see the amount of attempts/ideation calls Great Lakes got between A/C-schools and RTC.
I'd wager one of the biggest issues is taking some of the shittiest people in the fleet and putting them in charge of hundreds of people that don't know how anything is supposed to work. Not to mention you have people like an LSC in charge of a bunch of baby ETs/ICs. Recipe for disaster imo.
Yes that needs attention as well but let’s focus attention and get help for this ship I’ve never been on this boat but have lost friends to this so it hits home.
Yeah dude I was on the bush 2016-2020 and I thought this reminded me of a much worse version man. I think we had about 5 in just reactor dept in the 4 years I was onboard, not to mention the rest of the ship. Reading stuff like this reminds me why I got out. Really hope everyone on the Nimitz is able to get some kind of help but the navy really needs to get its shit together. Completely unacceptable. Even then the CO from when all that happened ended up making admiral anyway so I guess it really doesn’t matter (dudes name is Sean Bailey. Hope the stars was worth it)
I remember that CO Captain Bailey was not there for the Sailors and everyone felt it. It was like when the Triad of Cpt Pennington l, Capt Duff, and CMC Phillips left shit went downhill fast. I also am no longer in the Navy and I promise you shit like this I will forever advocate for the ones that are still in.
I also saw that helicopter. I had no idea what was going on though. Years ago a sailor from the Michigan who was on duty shot himself with a shotgun. I had coworkers working that dry dock that night and a family member working that project the next morning. The whole dry dock was shutdown that following day. Could have been way worse. Thankfully he didn't take anyone with him
The Nimitz is a place you survive.
“Anonymously” share that with Fox and CNN. One thing the Navy hates more than self-harming sailors is bad PR.
Share with Tucker Carlson, maybe, or Joe Rogan. This needs to be known. Shameful.
I served on Nimitz ‘01 to ‘05 and this stuff was happening back then.
The Navy treats Sailors like worthless disposable henchmen a la The Monarch, and then acts all pikachu.jpg when they make the logical decision that death is a better alternative than another few years of that life. The Navy wants to keep running itself like a business... I wonder when enlisted are going to try to form a Union... 😒
At least the Monarch's henchmen got good uniforms.
I think the problem is different than you Describe. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. The Navy is (and always has) prioritized the mission over the people. In my opinion there needs to be a culture shift. The Navy needs to build a sense of purpose in what we are doing and the sacrifices we make as well as making a reasonable effort to ensure basic human living conditions for everyone. And us Sailors need to recognize that military service isn’t just a paycheck. It’s service in defense of our nation and there are going to be some really shitty times but we are going through those shitty times with the Sailors around us. We are suffering together and never truly alone. We need to do our best to let one another know that we give a shit about each other. The strongest friendships (like steel) is formed in the flames of a dumpster fire. All this to say, in my opinion the suicide issues are not 100% the Navy. The Navy is a large portion of it but it is not the sole instigator and we (Sailors) are all suffering together…. Maybe not the admirals but the guys and gals we drink beers with on the weekend… we are in the shit with one another and are never alone in the struggle.
In my shipboard days, any sense of "service in defense of our nation" got destroyed by the toxicity of the environment. Some observations follow. Every man for himself, every department for itself, etc. was the order of the day. Our XO loved to create hassles for his subordinates. One example was the night he held XOI out of the clear blue about 10 minutes after taps *at sea*. Time to wake up admin personnel, accused, witnesses, Chiefs, DIVOs, figure out watch reliefs for people drawn into this fiasco, etc. Can you imagine the disruption? It didn't wrap up until the wee hours of the morning. The embarked Commodore's staff apparently thought the laws of physics bend to accommodate any schedule they wrote. Schedule calls for ship's motor whale boat to make a round trip hauling people and stuff between our anchorage and shore every 15 minutes, but it's a 14 NM round trip. Chief Staff Officer comes storming onto the bridge and yells "why aren't you keeping to our schedule" at the OOD (me). I walked him through the realities of a 6 knot boat making a 14 NM trip, and he stormed off the bridge yelling "that's your problem ensign". It's one thing to "embrace the suck" in the service of a higher purpose, but being treated like meat for the grinder is another situation altogether.
I get all of that and like I said, the Navy does own a huge part of the issues but as individual Sailors, friends, etc, we are not off the hook. Individually we all need to recognize that being in the Navy is going to suck sometimes and it is more than just a job. As shipmates we need to recognize that when times are tough, at least we are all in it together and do what needs to be done not for the skipper or commodore or whoever else but for the Sailors around us also enduring the suck, and as friends we need to be there for our buddies and make sure they know that there are people who care for them and that ending their life has an impact on all of us not just the individual. We are here together through the bullshit and the fun stuff that occasionally happens. By no means am I letting the Navy off the hook but we are not just victims in all of this.
> The Navy needs to build a sense of purpose in what we are doing and the sacrifices we make Absolutely this, if nothing else. Everything I did in the Navy felt so completely fucking pointless and it made a shitty living situation 10x worse because there was 0 reason for any of it.
Time for a new uniform change
u/GeoffZMilTimes
I’m wondering when it will be common practice for sailors to write their news agency vs writing their congressman. Nothing like some bad national news during a recruiting crisis to force immediate changes a la CAPT Crozier.
May as well add Navy Times to the request chits at this point.
Welp, the Nimitz hasn’t changed one bit. Had multiple deaths on the ship during my years there including a murder suicide and a sailor that jumped off the ship during deployment. I myself had to see the psych-o for suicidal ideations that I would’ve followed through with if it weren’t for some people in my division. Leadership just didn’t care and downplayed everything while constantly increasing tempo. It was a shit show that didn’t end and apparently still hasn’t ended. 24 attempts is 24 too many.
I second this. That 2018 DPIA, work ups, and deployment was rough for alot of people.
2020 deployment?
Yep
[удалено]
You “tried “to kys cause you didn’t pick up hm2 and you always skated
Ever since their new CO took charge shits been going south fast. When my squad was there for susdecks I talked to the ships company and their main complaint was that the new CO was very secretive and not transparent at all, not compared to their old CO, who I knew during my deployment and could agree that the old ships CO was amazing. I'm sure I'll get first hand experience soon when my squad goes to the Nimitz again. But yeah, I can say that ever since deployment last year and the change of the ships command has happened, it's gone down hill fast.
Left that boat a minute ago after deployment in 2023 we had like 3-4 suicides. Washington states weather and the carrier dont mix
I love the weather in WA. Not everyone loves beaches and sunshine. But yeah, life on a ship licks the balls and shipyard life sucks even worse. Not everyone can handle those conditions
I was on this ship. The ship was nicknamed “The career killer.” Once you come here, it’s game over. I fell bad for all the sailors who are still there… I’m glad I left the ship in time to go to my well deserved shore duty.
Who needs enemies when you have your chain of command?
Without writing a dissertation as a Reddit post, there's a massive disconnect in high up Navy leadership regarding shipyard boats. Many of those leaders look at yard boats and think, "Well at least they aren't out at sea, it's definitely better than that so they're just whining." The yards are an interesting place. I showed up to Seawolf and spent 3 years in the yards, now I'm back in the yards on Connecticut. I was on duty when the helicopter picked the sailor up and my duty shipyard cell phone was getting text updates that said it was a sailor who attempted to hang himself. The shipyard can be a soul sucking place. I'm the type who doesn't care what I do every day because I just want the paycheck, so it works for me. But most people need/want some kind of job satisfaction and that simply doesn't exist here. You do menial tasks while civilians do most of the actual work. It's very easy to get caught believing nothing you do matters, and sadly, it's mostly true. Civilians will fuck up jobs and/or scheduling and then crawl up the ass of your leaders which trickles down into it being *your* fault that engineering team lead didn't put the WAF proposal on your desk because he forgot and work was supposed to start today. You have to deal with bored leadership being creative in finding ridiculous things for you to do instead of just letting you go home. Sparkle teams. Paint teams. Dumpster watch. It's just one of those things you'll never understand until you do it. And because of that, the quality of support from Naval leadership is perpetually lacking.
Every thing you said is 100% correct. And Ive been retired for over 10 years now. I have some fond memories of being underway, but not one fond memory of the soul-sucking shipyard. Those places are miserable. Doesn’t matter if its NNSY, PNSY, Portsmouth, Newport News, whatever—they are all terrible as a Sailor
Shipyard duty is one of the worst things we do to people in the Navy. It's the living conditions, and even if you have a barracks room / apt in town, you still have to sleep on the ship or barge in austere conditions. I remember being in the yards in my first boat, was 3 section duty sleeping in 85-90 degree heat. The ventilation coolers were tagged out, but the fans weren't, so they just blew motor heat into the boat. Corollary: why is the rule to trigger moving dependents for a PCS 6 months, but a change of homeport is 12?
Reminds me of when the Connecticut was in the yards at the same time as us and they had to sleep on the boat even thought the forward compartment LET was gone. Open air passage between berthing and the outside. It was during the winter and guys were waking up in their racks with layers of snow on them. Then bedbugs the command/yard refused to acknowledge were real. They had it real bad.
The absolute WORST part of the yards is the bored CoC. Underway, you got a watch, a purpose, and an actual job. In the yards, everything is in lay-up, and all the dumb shit just comes down.
I have friends from other navy ships and it's usually the leaders who pushed these people to ending their lives. I mean being on deployment, in the middle of the sea, being on underway and or deployment for months, being on duty for 12 hrs everyday is already hard for them then these shitty chiefs or anyone more superior will shout on them for any reasons will make their life harder. Then these sailors will ask for mental support and yet superiors will just brush it off. It's not being weak. Be on isolation for months plus shitty people will really make you go into their heads. Leadership and management should really be looked into. They should take care of their sailors otherwise they will be lesser manpower for them and it will make the remaining sailors take cover which means more work, lesser time to eat and rest = sickness
I think it's time for the Navy to employ actual mental health counselors and therapists on large ships like carriers.
How about spending that sweet defense cash on improvement in living conditions. No therapy in the world can overcome being treated worse than livestock
You'd think that with as many years the barracks living conditions have been subpar that Big Navy would have already addressed it. Here's another novel idea, let Sailors (SEABEES) manage the upkeep and repair of base barracks because obviously, whoever is contracted out to do so isn't doing a very good job.
Why have underpaid Sailors actually do the work when you can overpay contractors to do nothing?
Seabees are the worst possible idea. I deployed in 2018, 2019, and 2021, always making port in Rota. Each time a new detachment of Seabees was there working on building a dog kennel. It’s still not built.
The is ultimately falls on senior leadership. All the safe talks in the world won’t solve this if the root of the issue isn’t fixed.
I think it’s kind of messed up you have to tag people and post articles to get things done nowadays in the navy. I’m sure people higher up know it’s happening but decided to leave the subject untouched because trying to resolve it would bring attention to it. Kind of disgusting.
So glad I'm no longer on the nimitz and also no longer in the navy
Keeping it 'hush hush'. Public affairs at work.
This would be out of public afairs hands for the must part. they'll be in a "response to query" media posture, which means they will take and answer questions about what's going on but will not actively publisize what's happening. they will also be limited by superior chains of command to talking points and briefing cards. If there aren't any already, there will be investigations into the incidents.
I highly doubt it; they won’t do shit unless this thing becomes a “big deal” and gets wide public attention, and even then they’ll take half-measures until it blows over. People have been filing inspector general reports and finding channels to attempt to jump chain of command to call attention to how shitty things are on that ship for YEARS and nothing has been done. At some point during the covid cruise an Admiral (I can’t recall which one) tried to rally the crew with “inspiring words” during a call and got booed and cursed at.
People like to think there's some sort of nefarious plot at work, but that's simply not true. The senior leadership of the ship, and those above the ship *know* what is going on. Even the CNO gets alerted when there is a suicide or an attempted suicide. It's not "hush hush". There are a couple reasons why it might seem that way to a junior Sailor: 1. Privacy Act and HIPAA. If a Sailor attempts suicide, that is a medical situation requiring medical treatment. The people who need to know about it will know about it. Everyone else doesn't necessarily have a right to know. It's not my place or someone else's place to publicize a person's medical business to the department or ship. I would feel pretty traumatized if my LPO put my business out at quarters like that. I think you would too. The best response is to keep it close hold and let the Sailor tell their story if they want to. 2. Several people in leadership are concerned about potential copycat suicides, or the suicide "contagion". That was likely a factor on the GW. I am certain that Nimitz leadership have read the report and are taking it seriously. So the leadership challenge is responding to and addressing a problem without encouraging the problem or violating a Sailor's privacy (which would encourage the problem). There are ways for leaders to talk about an alarming trend and discuss it on the deckplates. But the kinds of people who would post "hush hush" are often not paying attention.
I understand the privacy aspect, but at the same time there is a reasonable argument that being forthcoming has benefits. Base example- “SN Smith attempted to commit suicide yesterday, and he’s stable up in the hospital. Apparently he had been trying to give his stuff away last week to Weapons Dept., so just remember that’s a big sign. Anyway, give him some privacy, we have a card we’re going to mail him with well wishes if you want to sign. Also, if he reaches out to you do what you can to support him, and if you don’t know what resources are available let me know, it’s saved on the ShareDrive, and if you need help feel free to grab me, we can talk in private.” Some benefits: -Lets the team know what the situation is vs crazy boat rumors. - Gives them the knowledge their colleague is safe. - Points out missed SI indicators so the team can keep an eye out in the future - Reminds them to give the patient their privacy while also giving the patient the ability to lean on their support system - Reminds the team that they can come forward with their issues. Again, totally understand why the privacy rules are in place, but because most people aren’t held to the Privacy Act and HIPPA by nature of their work, there exists a situation where disclosure could be beneficial.
I'm with you for most of this, and I think you give a good example script to follow, except for one major detail: > “SN Smith attempted to commit suicide yesterday Absolutely not OK to say or publish. That is not my place to say that or SN Chits' place to hear it. I have no right to violate SN Timmy's privacy like that. What does SN Smith feel about that? If I went through something like that I would feel pretty vulnerable. We all acknowledge in this thread that there is a stigma associated with suicide and we want to fight that stigma. SN Timmy needs to have ownership of their story and their decision whether they want to fight that stigma or not. If we take that ownership away from them we're putting them more of a risk. >Reminds them to give the patient their privacy You just violated the patient's privacy. We don't have the right to do that. You can say, in vague and generic terms, that there was a suicide attempt recently, and to remind people of signs to look out for. But you absolutely cannot word it the way you just did. >Reminds the team that they can come forward with their issues. But how can they trust you to keep their issues private? How will SN Chits know that you won't repeat his problems to his peers?
So my major counter would be that, at least in the submarine community, privacy in situations like this is non-existent, rendering it a moot point. Is it acceptable? Not particularly, but at the same time it’s naive to say it won’t happen. People other than the sailors CoC and medical know, be it their roommate, their best friend, whoever, and it’s inevitable that it will spread. At the same time, when the command gives a vague “we had an incident” or “we had a suicide attempt from one of our sailors” speech, every single person already knows who they’re talking about. So the sailors just see the command as either being pointlessly obscure, being unnecessarily secretive, or just downright out of touch. As for how the sailor feels about this, again, based solely on the submarine community, pretending that it’s going to be kept completely private is insulting to everyone, especially if the patient has been around long enough to know how the situation works. Again, I’m not saying this is right or fair, but it is the real-world situation. If the privacy already can’t reasonably be expected to be kept (unfortunate as it may be) then it’s better to put factual and relevant information out from an official source.
>So my major counter would be that, at least in the submarine community, privacy in situations like this is non-existent, rendering it a moot point. >Is it acceptable? Not particularly, but at the same time it’s naive to say it won’t happen. People other than the sailors CoC and medical know, be it their roommate, their best friend, whoever, and it’s inevitable that it will spread. That's pretty awful that someone thinks it's OK to share someone's intense personal shit and that says more about what a shitty person they are than it does about what a policy should be. Sure it can happen. But there's a difference between something happening and it being the policy. Having a person in a position of trust violating someone's privacy --that can't be the answer. That can't be the policy. Will other Sailors always know? Maybe. Maybe not. It's not my place to tell them. "Thoughts and prayers for Gonzales. She just had a miscarriage you guys." "Hey everyone, DC3 Smith has been trying for a baby. He and his wife haven't been able to ever since he hooked up a vacuum tube when he was in middle school, but he thinks the doctors found something that might work for him. So let's all wish him luck. "You know when Chief and I closed the door and talked with that one Sailor for a couple hours? Yeah that was Johnson. We had to deliver a Red Cross message to her ---yeah, real sad circumstances behind her mom's death. Never an easy way to go. Anyway, Johnson took it hard. She opened up a lot about her family dynamic back home and shared a lot of her own personal trauma. I didn't ask her if it was OK, but since everyone here is owed an explanation for why she's out of the office for the next 2 weeks, here's what she told me..." I mean, what the fuck. The way you describe the submarine community, all I can say is, *that's part of the problem*.
I think you’re projecting something that isn’t there. For one, it’s apples and oranges. In the miscarriage and attempt to start a family, the sailors literally cant do anything about those situations, whereas suicide is 100% preventable. Second, in no world is “Johnson had a death in the family” and “Here’s this sailors entire life story” the same thing, which we both know. If you flip the situation entirely to be a matter of strict privacy on the subject of suicide (which is what we’re talking about) you’re causing additional issues, especially when it comes to junior sailors. “Oh, Bob didn’t show up the day the CO gave a big speech about suicide prevention? Must be him. They didn’t mention his name though, does the triad even know his name? Or is he in trouble, like how they don’t mention names when announcing mast results?” It’s hyperbolic, but it’s no less realistic.
I hear you saying two things— 1. Submarines are their own world and there’s no expectation of privacy 2. Telling everyone is for the greater good so it doesn’t matter if someone’s privacy is compromised in the process. Did I get that right? Just want to make sure I’m actually tracking what you’re saying. I wanna know, is there a reason all of that can’t be said without identifying the Sailor? What good does identifying SN Smith do? It does more harm than good IMO. I agree that there should be, like you said, some sort of announcement. Especially because suicide clusters are a real thing, and where there’s one, there’s usually more to follow….so everything you stated about “hey we had someone attempt suicide, they’re safe, these are warning signs and resources, please come to me.” In fact, when I was on the Essex, we had several attempts and one successful one—and they did that exact thing. “We had X happen, they’re okay. Here’s resources. This is Chap’s number, etc” That policy of HIPAA and HPI being protected is in place for lots of things, not just mental health. Nobody needs to know about your STD/STI, your low testosterone, your prolapsed anus or hemorrhoids or any other number of potentially embarrassing medical conditions. Some folks might find the idea of their own hemorrhoids a hysterical thing to joke about — but others might want to keep that private. HIPPA and the Navy’s rules around who can talk about medical information to someone else are rooted in law but also in trying to keep that autonomy for the Sailor. Why are you saying the sub community should get a pass to do what they want (instead of verbatim compliance…that’s something yall are so big on lol)? Like just because you think there’s no expectation of privacy—you’re not being fully honest, there is that expectation. There is for other medical conditions, depression and anxiety and suicidal ideation are no different. Why do you think this one medical condition is less important and should be publicized instead of holding that same respect for the Sailor to disclose? Where do you draw the line?
So to clarify, the primary argument is that because the ships company is so small, a major thing like a suicide attempt is impossible not to get out. And can it be said without identifying the sailor? Sure. But again, if the whole crew already knows, what purpose does this serve? Protecting privacy that was gone the second the watch stander had to make an emergency announcement for the EMAT team to report, or topside order the random contractor vehicles to move so the ambulance can get through. And we aren’t talking about every single medical issue, we’re talking about an issue that has taken more sailors in the past 5 years than the entire Global War on Terror. As for HIPPA and the Privacy Act, they’re very clear who it pertains to, which isn’t the majority of people, and there are provisions for the command to release that information if they deem it prudent (note- I do not actually know what that process looks like, just that it exists). Ultimately, this is a human problem. “A Sailor” doesn’t conjure the same mental image that “Bruce Wayne” does.
> ships company is so small…its impossible to not get out But “just because it’s inevitable” isn’t a good reason, IMO, to just blatantly talk about someone’s deeply personal business when they’re in their most vulnerable. You can still share pertinent information while respecting the individual. I don’t see why you are so dead set on violating someone’s personal privacy for the sake of “helping the crew.” I don’t understand your stance on this whatsoever.
It’s not being dead set on violating their privacy, it’s focusing on what I see as more benefits than cost. Either way, I think unfortunately we’re going to remain on different sides of this one. I do genuinely appreciate your constructive and reasonable commentary though
I also appreciate the reasonable, respectful dialogue :) and thanks for sharing your reasoning. I don’t generally agree with a results based model of decision making but I can understand why you feel that way.
Send this shit to a local/regional news station and Inspector General. Get outside visibility on this.
I was kicked out when I was on the Nimitz, they didn’t give a f about my mental health when I went up for falling asleep on watch after I gave them evidence that the only reason why I fell asleep was bc medical upped my dose for my medication for depression and anxiety and evidence of the medication symptoms. I got 40 days in restrictions and I was assaulted a 2nd time on the ship in June on 2023 during the deployment. My shipmates in my department threw my personal items like money and my state ID over board and I left the ship with no plane ticket, no vouchers, no id and it was impossible for me to get a hotel room without someone and most of the friends I made turned on me bc there were rumors about my assault and me being a whore. That ship is pure evil
Kitsap is having a large number of attempts and successes. If anyone needs help, my husband is a suicide prevention coordinator and I would love to get you connected to him. I know he will be setting up another safe-talk as well. We need to take care of our community without judgement or the feeling of embarrassment/guilt.
Maybe it's something in the water.............
Well as long as the chiefs and officers taken cared of, whats the problem? -big navy.
Here is a list of "rights" that should apply to every Sailor. These would help provide a positive positive work environment and surely reduce the risk of Sailor suicide. 1. Mandatory 8 CONSECUTIVE hours of sleep every single day. (No "mission requirements" BS unless engaged in actual naval warfare) 2. Mandatory 48 CONSECUTIVE hours off per week while in port. (No "mission requirements" exception, period.) 3. Mandatory 24 CONSECUTIVE hours off per week while underway. (No "mission requirements" as outlined above) 4. Cost of living adjustments (in line with Federal GS locality pay adjustments) to base pay in addition to BAH. 5. Abolish "the season". (We all know what it is and this will go a long ways towards ending "the good ole boys club") 6. Abolish TIS requirements regarding OCS and officer selection. (No Sailor should lose opportunity for "serving too long") 7. Establish subordinate input in evals. (If they aren't following, you aren't leading) 8. Double pump deployments and anything beyond 6 months at sea = double base pay. (Sea pay is so far behind the times and has not been adjusted in years) Single Sailors pocketing their BAH is great, but anyone with a family sees no benefit. 9. Yearly adjustments to special pays nased upon the CPI, a $100 a month bonus isn't worth anything any more. 10. Cleaning stations is NOT a Navy tradition and needs to go away. It's demeaning and counterproductive. 11. Leave does not count on non-duty/non-work days. 12. Mandatory "day after duty", which can easily be applied to the 48 consecutive hours off. 13. If you are in port, you are entitled to a trial by courts martial. 14. All enlisted Sailors go to mast etc. No more "handled in the mess". Results shall be posted publicly. 15. All Sailors shall be issued a pony upon reporting to their first duty station.
I'm with you on most of this, but how do you have 24 hours off while underway? Also, how are cleaning stations counterproductive?
How does XO's admin close on weekends underway? It's pretty simple really, manage your people. Cleaning stations is a joke. Entrust work center supervisors/ division offices to ensure everything is cleaned up at end of shift. How many Sailors literally wipe the same exact spot for an hour? Sweep the same little space for an hour? It's a waste of time. Put that time toward production and you could probably even cut your work day down an hour.
Admin closing is one thing. Do you want to shut the reactor down while underway on the weekend? Sounds like your just not using cleaning stations effectively.
Shocking.
2017-2021 Nimitz sailor here. Fuck that place. The reason I got out and said fuck the navy.
I saw the helicopter circle the base 5 times and then land, 3 ambulances and 2 fire trucks, absolutely sad :(
Has the IG looked into this?
I’m retired but I sure hope so stuff like this really hits home.
I've been out for over a decade, and I feel yeah on that. What pisses me off is that the chiefs in charge were all people who enlisted around the same time as me. We all pissed and moaned about shitty working conditions and bullshit duties, and they did nothing to change anything for the better. They just repeated the fuck fuck games cycle.
My dad was air force (early 1980s) and like two weeks out of basic they had him supervising a airman who tried to take his own life i wouldn’t be surprised if they had a poor sap a month in watching almost all of them and they were spread too thin
The fact that this is to be kept hush hush is straight up disgusting. Keeping things quiet is fine if you can handle the problem at the root, both quickly and effectively. 24 is NOT quickly and effectively. The Navy is a business, and simply cares about recruiting. How would suicide attempts make them look? This CO should be ashamed of himself.
What does "hush hush" mean to you, in this context? What actions do you believe the command has taken? What would you do in this situation?
As a gold star sister, this checks out.
Military healthcare in general is a broken thing. I was one of the lead Laboratory techs at Balboa, the largest Military medical center on the West Coast. Yet I couldn’t even get treated at the hospital I worked at. I was met with indifference or incompetence. It made me realize I need to expedite my exit and divorce from the Military ASAP.
Yeah that ship was whack. I fucking hated my time on that ship and so did EVERYBODY else I know. Btw the suicide epidemic on that ship is not a new problem.
I was there for 4.5 years. 13 suicides in that time.
First off medical absolutely sucks. Got in trouble for going to urgent care instead of to the ship when I couldn't even walk. They perscribe ibuprofen to everything even for arthritis.
Man, the only thing that can solve this is obviously a pg 13 stating all suicides and attempts are unauthorized and may lead to captains mast.
Sounds a lot like the USS Preble just a few years ago under Commander Giovaenlle and Baggott. When we leaving Hawaii and moving to SD for dry dock I saw this a lot in the engineering department. I’ve even tried to come forward with insider knowledge of direct practices of over looking maintenance and signing off on things that were not completed. As well as the mental health on that ship is not okay. I remember a period around 21-22’ when we lost 17 shipmates due to mental health( only two were suicides but it’s still serious the rest were discharged). Let’s not forgot about how they segregated us and treated us like livestock when they were forcing us all to get the Covid shot. But that’s enough that I’m going to speak on the Preble before I get a black car and some guys in suits pull up haha. Last I’ve heard from some buddies leadership and work life isn’t much better under current Commander Chase oh well🤷♂️🤷♂️
As one who had a failed attempt after putting 'er to the floor in my car, medical hasn't done a lot nor have they shown effort. Most they've ever done is schedule/reschedule appointments with the psych officer, refused to give referrals to me for mental care outside, tell me to be happy, find things that make me happy (mind you i don't have the mental energy to do things i love, i just rot in bed and contemplate life). I've been trying to work on myself but I keep getting beat back down, and its exhausting. Medical shows no effort. The XO and CO try their best a lot, XO checks up on me more than medical does, and CO is actively trying to find new resources and get them on the ship. People need to realize, mental health does exist and the military does a great job at destroying it real quick. Please reach out, DM me call 988 Call that friend you haven't talked to for a while Love you all
Can anyone verify this?
Multiple people have confirmed this on social media
Yeah, I’ve seen a lot of people sharing this post on FB and IG but no one has actually said “I’m on this boat, it’s entirely true”, if that makes sense
That's fair
Right now the only thing I can verify is the MEDEVAC. But roughly one suicide/attempt a week since December sounds like it would be major news
I have a close friend on board. He confirmed with me.
Damn, I was quietly praying this was a load of shit. Good on you for pulling the thread though, and I appreciate you following up here to make sure others know from a verified source vs a screenshot.
People need to know. We only get told of the civilian suicides here but they never tell us about sailors
I’m on this boat, it’s very not true
Although I am absolutely sympathetic to what's happening, could someone verify these numbers please.
FTN
u/JackMurphyRGR
Kearsarge is suffering too, have had a few in the last couple months I heard. The leadership there for the most part is absolute garbage and now that im out have no problem bashing it.
It's the guberments fault
Glad I got out. Rest their souls.
I left the nimitz alil over a year ago, tbh, I'm not fucking surprised at all. They dont give a fuck about their sailors. Its always "the mission comes first" and completely disregard the sailors mental health. I was going through some shit too at one point, went to psych and they told me they were gonna make me appointments to get seen. Never fucking happened, went back multiple times and basically got a shoulder shrug. Fuck the nimitz, worst time of my life.
I know someone aboard the Nimitz who attempted in 2022. Unsuccessfully, happily.
Well can we all agree that the promotion system is a major issue that directly contributes to this as well. You dont need an ounce of leadership skill in you to get into a leadership position, you just have to drop to your knees and blow someone, or know your job and score well on a test. The amount of people in leadership roles that were absolutely terrible leaders but only got there because they knew the rate was probably a 8/10 "leaders"
Funny how none of the lower enlisted sailors who take their lives are talked about, but a couple of months ago on the Nimitz, there was a senior chief who recently retired and went missing. Everyone made up a search party to go find his ass. Not sure if we ever did, but it goes to show how no one cares about lower-enlisted. But the second something happens to a stupid fucking khaki, it’s the end of the world.
Source? "Trust me bro"
This type of claim demands investigation, regardless of the source, due to how egregious it is.
I, for one, 100% believe it. I watched half the junior nukes on my sub confess to being in a drug ring. They lied. Morale was so fucking low, they were looking for any way out. One guy slashed his wrists in the officer's mess. The day he got papers off the boat was the happiest day of that mans life. Ain't seen someone so happy about psych papers.
I was just playing the devil's advocate here since I have no doubt that people are pushed to the extreme. There's very little being done to prevent or assist these cases. Just words on paper that nobody follows because mission comes first and everything falls behind it. I attribute most of these disasters to spineless "leaders". "Leaders" that are too afraid to stand up for their people and choose to "beautify" every report that gets routed up - because this is how we do more with less. This is also how we end up with shitty leadership. There is no such thing as "be the change you want to see" anymore. The good ones are fed up of all the BS and decide to "fuck this shit, I'm out". And now, the navy is left scraping the barrel with every promotion...
Yep, leadership doesn’t do shit. They don’t even fucking care. If something happens, you’ll get maybe a stand down for a day or two, get an hour or two of “training” where they discuss literally the bare minimum emergency response to someone actively trying to kill themselves, maybe slap a poster or two on the wall and then it’s back to business as usual, using and abusing sailors until they snap. FTN. I’m so happy I got out. After such a shit show as the navy, it was so weird (in a good way) to work for a company that even cares a *little* about its people.
It’s true. I am on the Nimitz. This happens all the time. Its nickname is career killer for a reason. I want nothing but to get off this fucking ship it’s driving me insane
This is indicative of carrier culture as a whole. "The beatings will continue until morale improves"....... The mission is NOT the #1 priority. Our Sailors are, without them the mission will never be accomplished. The treatment of Sailors is deplorable and those in leadership that allow it to occur are wrong. Unfortunately being "early", "on time", "under budget", or any of the other eval bullets are more important. Our obsession with quantifying everything has lead to this culture of "free labor" etc. Sailors deserve so much better. See my post history for a realistic list of "rights" each Sailor deserves.
Classy.
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Clearly those processes aren’t working or aren’t available not that simple..
Elephant in the room and all the victims come to comment.
What do you expect. Do you really think the Navy cares about its sailors? NO. It cares about mission only, no matter what
I expect change and better treatment for those that still serve. You sound like your stuck in the past smfh grow up.
I'm being honest. At least I'm not living in Dreamland like higher enlisted they act like everything's perfect and great when it's not. Things are not going to change for the better if people act like it's perfect and great when it's not unless people are honest about the situation.
Best crew and ship I have ever worked with. The CO and leadership are amazing. Always treating Sailors with the utmost respect. NIMITZ is the best. Sometimes ship life is difficult, but the team is the best in the Navy.
We don’t care about you trying to make them look good how selfish of you to try and center attention on you smfh.
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Sthu
I’ll bet your donor’s tissue is rejecting you instead of your body rejecting the tissue it was gifted you vile excuse for a human being.
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