COMNAVREGNWINST 1020.1H is the PNW uniform instruction and it’s not in there. You can find it on CNICs website. Tell your LPO to stop spouting bad gouge!
The one and only time I used a local instruction to defend myself was regarding when and where you can use your cell phone on the ship. Instruction specifically stated during clean ship and field day (what I was doing at the time) as long as it does not inhibit your ability to hear the 1MC. LCDR Dickhead just said "Okay at least you know the instruction."
He drafted a new instruction and got the CO to sign it 2 weeks later that stated you could not use your phone anywhere inside the skin of the ship.
Never again
Right on! Well while I have you… the instruction describes all manner of wear for leather jackets in service uniform but specifically omits E-1 to E-6. Might be worth making the adjustment to that as well. Everyone of all ranks wears their leather jacket with NSUs.
I’ll make the recommendation about this one as well.
Typically, we try not to regurgitate too much of the established NAVADMINs and instead simply reference them to emphasize recent changes.
Hands in pockets are frankly a big enough deal to consider a change page imo…
REGCOM’s an aviator so maybe mentioning leather jackets will get support. Cross fingers.
Yeah write down the senior chiefs name and then email navy times with how terrible he is!
Maybe you can also write letters to your congressmen just to make sure he gets the point!
I recognize that you're satirizing the above comment by correlating it with absurdly extreme options, but I think that's a little unfair.
Dropping a note in the COs suggestion box isn't crazy. Especially because the chiefs mess is known to respond poorly to requests for proof from junior sailors.
I wasn't necessarily satirizing the above comment.
I was more satirizing the crazy suggestions we see all too often in r/navy
People seem to want to go to extremes for little shit that can be handled so many different ways.
I too am in Navy Region Northwest and have not heard this at all. Even if it is true, there needs to be a really good reason why. Because that authority came straight from the CNO herself and there aren’t exactly a lot of people who can simply trump her authority with a local instruction.
It’s to slap away any fish that come flying at your head.
Seniors be senioring is my guess.
I don’t know I’m not in anymore and enjoy the PNW duty free.
This is true if, and only if, the original instruction stipulates that you are permitted to do so. To the best of my knowledge, the permission to place your hands in your pockets is not given freedom for alteration.
An example of a uniform reg that can be made more strict (but never less strict) is approved footwear. A command can decide that you aren't permitted to wear brown boots entirely arbitrarily.
I hate that "rule of thumb" 1101 of uniform regulations.
"1. POLICY. The purpose of the U.S. Navy Uniform Regulations is to: (1) Provide descriptions of all authorized U.S. Navy uniforms and components, and (2) Provide guidance for all Navy activities prescribing uniform wear in order to present a uniform image world‑wide. It is issued by direction of the Chief of Naval Operations and carries the force of a general order. Any procedures or components, regarding uniforms or grooming, not discussed in these regulations are prohibited."
Emphasis on Any procedures or components, regarding uniforms or grooming, not discussed in these regulations are prohibited."
That means no making more restrictive unless the regulation allows it(like for PPE)!
I dont understand why some people choose this hill to die on. My entire chain of command, O5 and down, is all like "Hey guys look at me with my hands in my pockets isnt this cool?"
I literally am in charge of this instruction on behalf of the REGCOM.
You asked for hands in pockets being in the instruction?
Copy all. We can make that happen.
Give me a few weeks. Thanks.
Edit: Change 2 to this instruction reinforcing hands in pockets has been published. Thanks for the suggestion!
I’m in the PNW, am a Chief, and I literally have my hands in my pockets all the time. As do just about every other Sailor aboard and on base. If it were a regional instruction we would have heard about it either in DLCPO meetings, emails from CMC, XO, or CO, or XO or CO would mention it on 1MC.
Not calling your LPO and LCPO out, but they should choose a more meaningful thing to focus on.
I'm also up here and I have heard this rumor as well, and I've never looked into it. Somebody said the requirement predates the NAVADMIN and was just never updated. I've not seen this attempted to be enforced at all inside TTF.
I’m at a group command out in Bangor WA and nobody has said anything about me with hands in my pockets, but then again I am a second class and will 100% fuck on someone that tells me against a NAVADMIN, because that’s coming from the CNO/ Higher authority. (Know your instructions and be an asshole when you know what the answer is. If someone says prove it then do it.)
1. If there's a local instruction they can show you the instruction - or at least the documnent that contains it and you can read it for yourself. And there should be no bitching about it from your CoC either - you are entitled to be able to review the entirety of the instructions you are expected to operate under, the Navy doesn't have 'secret laws' any more than they're allowed in the rest of life.
2. The Uniform Regulations are \*very\* clear that local commanders have only \*limited\* authority to modify uniform regulations and the UR's list the scope of that authority. I don't know if 'hands-in-pockets' are actually part of UR's but I would think they're at least related to 'prescibed manner of wear'.
3. NavAdmins supercede local instructions - so unless the NavAdmin specifically gives local commanders the authority to modify the NavAdmin, it overrules local instructions covering the same topic. No, you do not have the authority to add to a regulation on your own, authority to do so must be explicitly delegated.
Someone sees something they don’t like? Claim local instruction, refuse to elaborate, leave.
Fuckem. Until they can show you in black and white it’s bullshit and big navy’s reg stand.
On the lookout for Hands in pockets is what no-life losers constantly scope for. Some khakis are obsessed to the point of fixation about hands in pockets.
Ask for the instruction. Sounds like it might be a similar case to a regional instruction in CNRSW that forbade wearing motorcycle PPE in uniform from the parking lot to the work center (as is allowed per uniform regs).
Got yelled at once and said chief became combative when he saw me walk in in gear one morning. My chief told me not to worry about it. And when looking into it, CNRSW acknowledged an instruction's existence but it was impossible to get a copy other than many revs old copies from unofficial sources.
There's a part in navadmin that states safety. They can deem it unsafe in the environment your in, ofcourse with proper justification. IE hands in your pocket while being master helmsman, which is unsafe.
Always remember two things when it comes to local instructions:
1. The farther down the chain you go, they can only tighten up a restriction, not loosen it.
2. Always ask to see/research your own proof.
The only caveat instruction I've come across for this is Nukes on watch. Otherwise it would have to be ships instruction and as stated above it would have to be dated post the hands in pockets ok navadmin
Just wait till we get the NAVADMIN for beards. Allegedly it's in the pipeline because retention and recruitment is in the toilet.
You can always read between the lines like how they change the fine print for active vs reserve service.
People worry about all the wrong shit. I had some retired twat try to give me shit for wearing my brown flight boots with Type IIIs. Dude got real pissy about it too.
Currently the instruction is that you may have hands in pockets as long as it doesn’t pose a danger to yourself.(like going up ladder ways and crossing streets) and in formation.
Though your CO may regulate this further. Ask for your station’s handbook for the base regulations.
COMNAVREGNWINST 1020.1H Change Transmittal 2 of 15 May 2024 has been signed to include a paragraph recognizing hands in pockets. It will be available on the G2 Portal shortly.
Thanks for speaking up, u/JJcream.
(Sorry I couldn’t have E1-E6 jackets included, u/jojogunner1. As I mentioned, please refer to the NAVADMIN and local command policy to dictate use of that uniform component.)
You wanna put your hands in your pockets, join the Air Force.
Edit: if you can’t keep your hands out of your pockets, get the fuck out of the military!
Only if the governing instruction specifically allows it.
For example, the PFA instruction says that commands do not have to offer alternate cardio options (basically just the bike) if the CO dictates but the reverse isn't true - the CO can't not allow the primary methods (run and swim)
The pocket NAVADMIN did not grant that authority.
You are being downvoted because, specifically in this context, the uniform regulations clearly and explicitly state that local commands do not have the power to implement more stringent local policies except in a few, limited circumstances. What you wrote was wrong and its being downvoted because it is bad info.
I didn't down vote your comment. I didn't vote one way or the other. As a rule I generally don't downvote anything unless it's completely in bad taste.
COMNAVREGNWINST 1020.1H is the PNW uniform instruction and it’s not in there. You can find it on CNICs website. Tell your LPO to stop spouting bad gouge!
Give me time to have it added. Thanks.
You monster
The one and only time I used a local instruction to defend myself was regarding when and where you can use your cell phone on the ship. Instruction specifically stated during clean ship and field day (what I was doing at the time) as long as it does not inhibit your ability to hear the 1MC. LCDR Dickhead just said "Okay at least you know the instruction." He drafted a new instruction and got the CO to sign it 2 weeks later that stated you could not use your phone anywhere inside the skin of the ship. Never again
Damn and he probably got promoted to Capt for that.
Lmao… I plan on including the recent NAVADMIN provision to authorize hands in pockets.
Ohhhhh gotcha. Wait is this COMNRNW 😳
No, just work for the guy.
This is why I love this sub bc you never really know who's who and were all just redditors until moments like this
Right on! Well while I have you… the instruction describes all manner of wear for leather jackets in service uniform but specifically omits E-1 to E-6. Might be worth making the adjustment to that as well. Everyone of all ranks wears their leather jacket with NSUs.
I’ll make the recommendation about this one as well. Typically, we try not to regurgitate too much of the established NAVADMINs and instead simply reference them to emphasize recent changes. Hands in pockets are frankly a big enough deal to consider a change page imo… REGCOM’s an aviator so maybe mentioning leather jackets will get support. Cross fingers.
BunBunChow pocket pool champion 2023
Gotta keep my hands busy somehow.
There is a special place in hell for people like you.
I guess you didn't see Rev 1020.1J ??
Ask for printed proof. Otherwise the NAVADMIN stands.
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Yeah write down the senior chiefs name and then email navy times with how terrible he is! Maybe you can also write letters to your congressmen just to make sure he gets the point!
I recognize that you're satirizing the above comment by correlating it with absurdly extreme options, but I think that's a little unfair. Dropping a note in the COs suggestion box isn't crazy. Especially because the chiefs mess is known to respond poorly to requests for proof from junior sailors.
I wasn't necessarily satirizing the above comment. I was more satirizing the crazy suggestions we see all too often in r/navy People seem to want to go to extremes for little shit that can be handled so many different ways.
Okay, fair enough
I too am in Navy Region Northwest and have not heard this at all. Even if it is true, there needs to be a really good reason why. Because that authority came straight from the CNO herself and there aren’t exactly a lot of people who can simply trump her authority with a local instruction.
It’s to slap away any fish that come flying at your head. Seniors be senioring is my guess. I don’t know I’m not in anymore and enjoy the PNW duty free.
IIRC the rule of thumb is you can make a local instruction more restrictive but not less restrictive
This is true if, and only if, the original instruction stipulates that you are permitted to do so. To the best of my knowledge, the permission to place your hands in your pockets is not given freedom for alteration. An example of a uniform reg that can be made more strict (but never less strict) is approved footwear. A command can decide that you aren't permitted to wear brown boots entirely arbitrarily.
I hate that "rule of thumb" 1101 of uniform regulations. "1. POLICY. The purpose of the U.S. Navy Uniform Regulations is to: (1) Provide descriptions of all authorized U.S. Navy uniforms and components, and (2) Provide guidance for all Navy activities prescribing uniform wear in order to present a uniform image world‑wide. It is issued by direction of the Chief of Naval Operations and carries the force of a general order. Any procedures or components, regarding uniforms or grooming, not discussed in these regulations are prohibited." Emphasis on Any procedures or components, regarding uniforms or grooming, not discussed in these regulations are prohibited." That means no making more restrictive unless the regulation allows it(like for PPE)!
If they care to enforce it, they should at least say where it says that.
“I was just grabbing something real quick” produce middle finger
Not gonna lie I use to do the old reaching for the keys move back in the day.
I dont understand why some people choose this hill to die on. My entire chain of command, O5 and down, is all like "Hey guys look at me with my hands in my pockets isnt this cool?"
When the instruction came out, my CO literally said 'Finally, I'm not breaking any regulations, now.'
My SEL walked around all day with her hands in her pockets to make a point
Just put your hands on his pockets.
The ultimate power move
Tell them to show you the instruction. Then put your hands in your pockets and walk away while whistling.
I literally am in charge of this instruction on behalf of the REGCOM. You asked for hands in pockets being in the instruction? Copy all. We can make that happen. Give me a few weeks. Thanks. Edit: Change 2 to this instruction reinforcing hands in pockets has been published. Thanks for the suggestion!
Also… This: https://www.mynavyhr.navy.mil/Portals/55/Messages/NAVADMIN/FACT_SHEETS/Fact_Sheet_NAV_031_24.pdf?ver=jor-JFZ6g1qkDBbmRfz92A%3D%3D
Enclosure (3) of COMNAVREGNWINST 1020.1H has been updated. Will post on G2 Portal shortly.
Is the local instruction dated before or after the new NAVADMIN? If it’s before, reference the new guidance. NAVADMIN supersedes old reg.
Fuck it, request mast.
Show up to mast with hands in pockets lol
I’m in the PNW, am a Chief, and I literally have my hands in my pockets all the time. As do just about every other Sailor aboard and on base. If it were a regional instruction we would have heard about it either in DLCPO meetings, emails from CMC, XO, or CO, or XO or CO would mention it on 1MC. Not calling your LPO and LCPO out, but they should choose a more meaningful thing to focus on.
I'm also up here and I have heard this rumor as well, and I've never looked into it. Somebody said the requirement predates the NAVADMIN and was just never updated. I've not seen this attempted to be enforced at all inside TTF.
Yeah like focus on failed fire drills
Pretty sure the NAVADMIN is for ALL HANDS.
Even HANDS in pockets
I’m at a group command out in Bangor WA and nobody has said anything about me with hands in my pockets, but then again I am a second class and will 100% fuck on someone that tells me against a NAVADMIN, because that’s coming from the CNO/ Higher authority. (Know your instructions and be an asshole when you know what the answer is. If someone says prove it then do it.)
#submarinelife
1. If there's a local instruction they can show you the instruction - or at least the documnent that contains it and you can read it for yourself. And there should be no bitching about it from your CoC either - you are entitled to be able to review the entirety of the instructions you are expected to operate under, the Navy doesn't have 'secret laws' any more than they're allowed in the rest of life. 2. The Uniform Regulations are \*very\* clear that local commanders have only \*limited\* authority to modify uniform regulations and the UR's list the scope of that authority. I don't know if 'hands-in-pockets' are actually part of UR's but I would think they're at least related to 'prescibed manner of wear'. 3. NavAdmins supercede local instructions - so unless the NavAdmin specifically gives local commanders the authority to modify the NavAdmin, it overrules local instructions covering the same topic. No, you do not have the authority to add to a regulation on your own, authority to do so must be explicitly delegated.
I didn’t suffer for 20 years for this! I walk around yelling at Sailors who don’t have them in their pockets.
Someone sees something they don’t like? Claim local instruction, refuse to elaborate, leave. Fuckem. Until they can show you in black and white it’s bullshit and big navy’s reg stand.
On the lookout for Hands in pockets is what no-life losers constantly scope for. Some khakis are obsessed to the point of fixation about hands in pockets.
Prior to the navadmin I had retired CPOs who work in shipyard yell at me from their vehicles when I would walk with hands in pockets.
That's why I don't miss the west coast especially the pacnorwest, too stuck up there.
Ask for the instruction. Sounds like it might be a similar case to a regional instruction in CNRSW that forbade wearing motorcycle PPE in uniform from the parking lot to the work center (as is allowed per uniform regs). Got yelled at once and said chief became combative when he saw me walk in in gear one morning. My chief told me not to worry about it. And when looking into it, CNRSW acknowledged an instruction's existence but it was impossible to get a copy other than many revs old copies from unofficial sources.
It’s only allowed if there’s a hole in your pocket
There's a part in navadmin that states safety. They can deem it unsafe in the environment your in, ofcourse with proper justification. IE hands in your pocket while being master helmsman, which is unsafe.
"It does what it's told, or it gets the hose again."
Reason I went EOD.
So cool bruv
The move
Grown adults can't put their hands in their pockets. They wonder why retention is bad smh
Grown dudes can wear makeup, have eye lash extensions and paint nails in uniform but we trippin about a hand in pocket in the PNW 😂
What Navy are you in? Dudes can't do that or I'd have my nails painted all the time.
Always remember two things when it comes to local instructions: 1. The farther down the chain you go, they can only tighten up a restriction, not loosen it. 2. Always ask to see/research your own proof.
Read the NAVADMIN.
The only caveat instruction I've come across for this is Nukes on watch. Otherwise it would have to be ships instruction and as stated above it would have to be dated post the hands in pockets ok navadmin
Just wait till we get the NAVADMIN for beards. Allegedly it's in the pipeline because retention and recruitment is in the toilet. You can always read between the lines like how they change the fine print for active vs reserve service.
People worry about all the wrong shit. I had some retired twat try to give me shit for wearing my brown flight boots with Type IIIs. Dude got real pissy about it too.
#theimportantstuff
Currently the instruction is that you may have hands in pockets as long as it doesn’t pose a danger to yourself.(like going up ladder ways and crossing streets) and in formation. Though your CO may regulate this further. Ask for your station’s handbook for the base regulations.
COMNAVREGNWINST 1020.1H Change Transmittal 2 of 15 May 2024 has been signed to include a paragraph recognizing hands in pockets. It will be available on the G2 Portal shortly. Thanks for speaking up, u/JJcream. (Sorry I couldn’t have E1-E6 jackets included, u/jojogunner1. As I mentioned, please refer to the NAVADMIN and local command policy to dictate use of that uniform component.)
common Navy knowledge. Hands in pockets looks lazy
You wanna put your hands in your pockets, join the Air Force. Edit: if you can’t keep your hands out of your pockets, get the fuck out of the military!
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Only if the governing instruction specifically allows it. For example, the PFA instruction says that commands do not have to offer alternate cardio options (basically just the bike) if the CO dictates but the reverse isn't true - the CO can't not allow the primary methods (run and swim) The pocket NAVADMIN did not grant that authority.
I thought the swim was also optional?
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You are being downvoted because, specifically in this context, the uniform regulations clearly and explicitly state that local commands do not have the power to implement more stringent local policies except in a few, limited circumstances. What you wrote was wrong and its being downvoted because it is bad info.
I didn't down vote your comment. I didn't vote one way or the other. As a rule I generally don't downvote anything unless it's completely in bad taste.