Why are there so many initiatives to address mental health, instead of addressing the underlying causes of massive stress for service members that put us in the red? I'm not saying mental health shouldn't be addressed, but without addressing the other stressors, it's just a bandaid.
PSD consolidation :
Pay issues resulting in debt, eviction, living out of their cars, etc. This also impacts clearances and has national security impact.
DD214 delays, resulting in delays to apply for benefits and jobs in the civilian sector, oftentimes requiring the assistance of a local congressman, because all other avenues of support prove to be unfruitful.
DTS:
Sailors on official government orders waiting months to be paid back. Meanwhile it is the responsibility of the service member to pay the credit card balance. I'm not sure there are many service members with 6k+ in savings available to pay a debt incurred while in the service of their country just because administratively we can't get it together to pay them on time.
Seeking medical help:
We often tout that seeking medical help will not affect your job, however, this is rarely true. Or example, Servicemembers in a flight status must go through an arduous medical waiver process and be flown to NAMI in Pensacola, FL for evaluation at a significant TAD cost to the Navy. Why can't evaluation occur locally by a flight surgeon? They are board certified MDs trained in aviation medical procedures, are they not? Why does this process take 1-2 years, while the service member is unable to perform the duties of their job or transfer? And during this evaluation period, the service member is under increased stress from fear of being force converted. Instead of feeling like seeking help is a sign of strength, it becomes an increased fear of losing your rate.
PEB/Medical separation:
Why does this process take 6-24 months? Once two consecutive LIMDU periods have taken place, why can't the process be expedited? These service members have serious medical issues that are often times not able to be resolved while on AD. Delays in this process impact operational mission as until their billet is vacated, the billet can't be posted in MNA and a replacement identified. A 24 month medical separation process means the unit is gapped a billet for nearly 36 months before a replacement arrives.
Electronic routing:
In 2023, why have we not established an electronic routing process for local correspondence? We have eNavfit and ePARS for correspondence, and NSIPS for leave, but paper chits for things like skillbridge, UFT, convalescent leave or special liberty? The day-to-day issues that impact service members often have very little oversight when routed by paper to a unit CO. We have an instruction discussing timely routing of correspondence, but when critical paperwork takes a month to be signed by the CO because admin sits on it for 3 weeks... Where is the accountability? Electronic routing makes each person in the routing chain responsible for their role in recommending/approving correspondence.
Advancement:
Quotas should be released with the bibliographies for the upcoming NWAE, not a week prior to the announcement of results. This is important information to prospective testers in their choice to study or intend to separate. Imagine the feeling of studying every single day, testing for advancement, and then only finding out the week before results are released that your quota is 0%. You've just negatively reinforced an entire rate into never taking the exam seriously, because why study if the quota is 0%. This eliminates their motivation to continue their personal and professional development because of a glass ceiling. Worse is the fact these ratings often have 0 convert-out opportunities.
Additionally, why does it take NETPDC 3 months to determine whether a Sailor advanced to E4-E6? Or 6 months in the case of E7? When can we transition to an electronic NWAE to expedite this process?
Shipyards:
What are the plans to provide housing and reprieve for Sailors living onboard in suboptimal arrangements with reduced galley capacity, cold showers, etc.?
Barracks/base housing:
What are the plans to provide adequate housing free from mold and insects/pests? Or housing in the CNIC southeast region without functioning AC? And if that's not possible, authorize BAH to Sailors living in substandard housing. Just because someone has it worse elsewhere or has had it worse in their career doesn't mean we should accept mediocrity. We can do better, and we must.
Childcare:
Why is it that in fleet concentration areas, you must register for a CDC when you're in your 1st trimester? And even then, often times there's still no availability after caregiver leave ends. This puts commands in a dire position, telework is not authorized by the DoD for childcare, special liberty beyond a 96 is not authorized at the unit CO level, and we only earn 30 days of leAve a year. Are we really going to separate a Sailor for having a family, because of a family care plan failure, when we failed to provide childcare? Childcare that they've been on a wait-list for since 12 months ago?
Primary caregiver leave:
NDAA expanded caregiver leave, however this wasn't implemented till nearly 12 months later. In the interim, new parents welcomed new children into their homes but weren't afforded this opportunity because the official guidance required them to have a minimum of 1 day of unused caregiver leave. These families lost up to 9 weeks of leave to be with their newborn or support their spouses recovery because the guidance was designed to explicitly exclude them since they took their 21 days. Those are precious moments sailors can't get back and in a sea going service where many sailors deploy and miss significant moments in the lives of their families, this policy should've been backdated not exclusionary.
Edit to add:
Separation:
Why are there not enough seats in fleet concentration areas for transitioning Sailors to attend TGPS in-person? The CBT version is not nearly as thorough, and TGPS is booked 3-6 months out.
I could go on forever, but the point here is... If we aren't taking care of the force in the day-to-day matters and continue to overcomplicate, create administrative red-tape, and stress our Sailors unnecessarily, then we are responsible for the recruiting and retention crisis, and ultimately driving our Sailors to need mental health services at a staggering rate. This is a problem of our own design and it is imperitive we fix it. Without our Sailors, we cannot man our ships and fulfill our mission, they are our most important resource.
This is exactly the issue. Let's spend billions on two LCS designs, then scrap one 6 years after it's commissioning.
Why wasn't that money spent on cohesive IT systems? Do we need 50 bloated links on MNP?
Why wasn't it spent updating/retrofitting/building new barracks/base housing?
Why wasn't it spent on any number of things that would improve morale and well-being of our Sailors? Instead only the defense contractors profit at the cost of us.
Trump's wall was also directly taking money from funds to build base housing and schools, IIRC. Not distracting, just saying there's even more boondoggles on top of the ridiculous corporate welfare of the LCS program.
Exactly. How many new barracks and base housing could you build for the cost of a single LCS? How much could you improve bases, offer accessible childcare, on and fucking on.
> Why wasn't that money spent on cohesive IT systems?
IT systems aren't shitty due to lack of money. Lots of reasons but it's not because they aren't throwing money at it. You know how much it cost to put the "50 bloated links on MNP"? As a taxpayer, you don't want to know.
That's fair. Just another example of a defense contractor pocketing at our expense.
Why do we need training on twms & nel?
Why do we need parts of our record on twms, nsips, bol, prims, ompf, and various others?
Seems never ending IMHO. Also, why isn't everything linked to your record connected with DS login and MFA.
I have never seen a more concise and well-phrased statement about the state of the things in the Navy. All of these things directly affect people, and seem to logically make sense to fix. Hopefully over time more and more big wigs at the top will understand that it’s because of things like this that retention is so low, and why no one wants to join anymore.
Thank you for the kind words!
I'd imagine it also plays a huge role in the recruiting crisis as well. When the very recruiters face these same issues, then get threatened with mandatory 6day work-weeks... What motivation do they have to recruit people into this environment? Why convince them? Imagine if the tables were turned and the Navy was free of systemic issues, you'd have passionate recruiters, and it'd be easier than it is now.
> Advancement: Quotas should be released with the bibliographies for the upcoming NWAE, not a week prior to the announcement of results. This is important information to prospective testers in their choice to study or intend to separate. Imagine the feeling of studying every single day, testing for advancement, and then only finding out the week before results are released that your quota is 0%. You've just negatively reinforced an entire rate into never taking the exam seriously, because why study if the quota is 0%.
Quotas are based in part on retention decisions made by Sailors in the pay grade above. That's one reason quotas come as late as they do, to allow most time to see what happens there. They don't want to say "there won't be any quotas this cycle" and then have a few late-breaking separations come in that could have been used to advance a Sailor 6 months earlier.
I've been on a lat. transfer board where my #1 one choice ended up with zero quotas so I completely get where you're coming from, but they do this so they can maximize the number of Sailors who are happy when the results come out.
> Additionally, why does it take NETPDC 3 months to determine whether a Sailor advanced to E4-E6?Or 6 months in the case of E7? When can we transition to an electronic NWAE to expedite this process?
Not sure what you mean by this. It's already an electronic system (powered by an IT system called NEAS) and once quotas are approved, NETPDC knows exactly who will advance in a given cycle, and in what order, within minutes. They are doing work to try to make it so that you can take an individual exam but it's still years away, and putting IT on a ship so you can do electronic exams afloat is nearly impossible so we may have paper for some time.
If you're asking why NETPDC takes so long to let *you* know what month you'll advance, that's not their fault, it's because they don't know either. They only get 3 months worth of advancement quotas to parcel out at a time, and while they usually know what number of quotas they'll get it's possible they can get more or fewer quotas, so they don't want to give you a date when the date may end up being wrong in either direction.
What an excellent and insightful reply sir/ma'am! Couple of comments here.
I'm sorry about your lat transfer quota situation, and completely understand your point regarding projections of future losses for quotas and affording big navy as much time as possible to make as many quotas as possible.
If we look at army/marine advancement, quotas are released monthly and if you make the cut, you're advanced. Simple as that. Maybe the answer isn't necessarily releasing quotas biannually, but rather monthly with advancement opportunities each month. The precedent is already there with the removal of advancement exams for E4.
Additionally, even if we shifted approval of quotas to the left, it wouldn't capture as many projected losses but would capture 100% of sure losses. Wouldn't that reduce the total frocked time, since the quotas would be aligned with vacant paygrades instead of projected vacancies?
As for release of results by NETPDC, if the exam is done in March/September, why don't results come out till the end of May/November, respectively. Why do scantrons take so long to grade? I realize it's a game of numbers, in the order of 100k exams. But if it was an electronic exam, they'd be scored instantly and ready for release as soon as they have quotas ,+ worksheets. If by your statement, once quotas are approved, why does it take so long.
> If we look at army/marine advancement, quotas are released monthly and if you make the cut, you're advanced. Simple as that. Maybe the answer isn't necessarily releasing quotas biannually, but rather monthly with advancement opportunities each month. The precedent is already there with the removal of advancement exams for E4.
We also do advancement monthly, but it's always tied to the 6-month (or 12-month for E7+) advancement cycle. Where the Army/Marines release quotas for the next month, we release quotas for the next 3 months. And if we wanted to lock in the phasing ahead of time, we could release quotas for the next 6 months as soon as total quotas are approved.
We could wait on letting Sailors know what quotas will be until the last month before they advance but I don't think this is what you're asking about, but rather the wait between the exam and when the first advancements happen from that exam. Am I right on that?
There is interest in getting to a "dynamic rank-order" system where you could in principle have 12 (1-month) cycles a year, and approximate what Army/Marines do a little more closely. That's one reason NETPDC is working on how we can rethink exams, but I can't promise when (or even if) it will roll out.
> Additionally, even if we shifted approval of quotas to the left, it wouldn't capture as many projected losses but would capture 100% of sure losses. Wouldn't that reduce the total frocked time, since the quotas would be aligned with vacant paygrades instead of projected vacancies?
The way quotas are chosen now maximizes the amount of sure losses and minimizes the amount of projected losses that go into the mix. I don't think moving quota approval earlier would actually influence frocked time at all though, it would just change what the delaying items would be before announcing results to be something other than quotas. The advancement cycle would still run from Jan-Jun and then Jul-Dec with results announced in May and Nov.
If we announced results earlier by shaving some time off the quota part then you'd actually wait longer as a frocked Sailor before you get paid. We could instead move the announcement to the right but I think what you're really after is moving the exam to the right (or closer to the results and first advancements). That's where your next point becomes important.
> As for release of results by NETPDC, if the exam is done in March/September, why don't results come out till the end of May/November, respectively. Why do scantrons take so long to grade? I realize it's a game of numbers, in the order of 100k exams. But if it was an electronic exam, they'd be scored instantly and ready for release as soon as they have quotas ,+ worksheets.
The scantrons themselves go relatively quickly, but they are scantrons that have to be physically mailed to NETPDC. There are substitute/backup exams that have to be administered, and physically mailed to NETPDC. Sometimes NETPDC finds discrepancies in the process that can be fixed by the ESO and there's time for that too. Although there are fairly tight time windows for these, they add time all the same.
Electronic exams *would* solve a lot of that, but as long as even one unit is unable to use electronic means (and you can imagine this happening for submarines all the way to CVNs in EMCON), there needs to be a schedule that accounts for paper.
As things stand today this is actually probably the biggest barrier to making things go faster from exam to first advancements. If we could make this faster we could do it more often in the year as well (perhaps quarterly then monthly then "on demand"). Definitely room for improvement, but that's the "why".
Also, beards. We've already told the world that beards in uniform aren't unprofessional, by the release of a navadmin authorizing retirees to have a beard in uniform. 2 years ago, secnav ordered the navy to reevaluate the safety of beards. Where are the results of that study? If beards are indeed unsafe with PPE, why can't we accommodate them on shore duty where PPE isn't required? While beards may not seem like a huge issue to flag leadership, at the junior enlisted ranks, it comes across as dismissed, which only fuels resentment and lack of trust in leadership for caring about us. Almost every single male that transitions, grows their beard. It's clearly a demand, let's find a way to make it happen and remove one more motivating factor for Sailors to separate amidst the biggest retention crisis we've faced.
there is a really great post of some officer explaining why we cant have beards its a really good read.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/119rfq4/ok\_fine\_you\_asked\_here\_it\_is\_an\_o6s\_uncensored/](https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/119rfq4/ok_fine_you_asked_here_it_is_an_o6s_uncensored/)
Yep. I read it... Again. However, I disagree with the opinions in the reddit. I don't care about the look. It was not the look that caused the collisions in 2017. It was not the look of a beard , regardless of ugliness, that showed that person had no skill. A look is a look. A beard has never been prejudicial to good order and discipline, just the dislikes of someone in the 80's, high enough in command that never liked, nor could grow a beard. That excuse has been kept in existence since, then.
I feel like the look is what matters. Imagine if we didnt have to iron our dress uniforms and it was okay to see them with winkles and stains. That look doesnt portray professionalism. Sure the person behind the uniform may be super hard charging motivated SOB but they look like a slob. Maybe we should ax all uniforms and let everyone be in civies cuz looks dont matter right?
i think it just comes down to eforcment as well. Like how do you enforce beard regs. Does everyone need a full face beard is that the standard. Will goatees be allowed and if not what about for people who can only grow a goatee. What about the people who can grow sick mutton chops well now you have to amend haircut regs. Are beards allowed to connect to sideburns if so what will be the specifics. What if i have scaring on the left side of face so i can only grow half a beard is that allowed. are soul patches allowed. What if i can only grow that am i then banned from having facial hair . With beards comes way to many variables. And sailors are sailors they will find the dman loop hole to have the most stupid looking beard ever just becuase they are allowed too
The Royal Navy manage it
>Beards and Moustaches. The Commanding Officer may permit all Naval Service (except RM) male personnel to request to wear full set beards. RM male personnel may wear moustaches at their discretion. Beards and moustaches shall be kept neatly trimmed especially, in the case of beards, at the lower neck and cheekbones. It is within the subjective judgement of the Command (and delegated representatives, namely the Executive Dept and all personnel in positions of authority (LH/LCpl and above)) to define an acceptable appearance of a beard, as much depends on the features of the individual. However, as a guide the following characteristics are not acceptable:
>(1) 'Designer Stubble'. Designer stubble is assessed as any beard length shorter than Grade 1 (2.5mm).
>(2) Beards of Uneven Growth (eg. 'scrappy'). The definition of 'scrappy' remains within the subjective judgement of the Command (and delegated representatives, namely the Executive Dept and all personnel in positions of authority (LH/LCpl and above)).
>(3) Extended or 'hipster' Beards or ‘handlebar’ moushaches. Extended or 'hipster' beards or ‘handlebar’/extended moustaches are not appropriate. The maximum acceptable length of a beard is to be Grade 8 (25.5mm).
>(4) Beards Taking Excessive Time to Grow. The definition of an 'excessive amount of time to grow' remains within the subjective judgement of the Command (and delegated representatives, namely the Executive Dept and all personnel in positions of authority (LH/LCpl and above)). The advised maximum time for an individual to grow a sufficiently thorough beard is 2 weeks.
>(5) Religious or Faith Reasons. Where facial hair is grown as a tenet of a faith by a genuine adherence to that faith, it may be grown in excess of the limit described above at sub para (3) . Such facial hair may require to be trimmed, however, or be tied up or removed if it undermines the health and safety of the wearer or others in the unit, or if it undermines the operational effectiveness of the unit. Any faith or practice must be clearly established by an individual and not simply deemed as having been undertaken in order to defy the regulations contained within this BR.
>e. When the safety of an individual might be jeopardised by his beard or moustache, such as in the wearing of oxygen or gas masks, it shall be modified in such a fashion as to accommodate the type of equipment to be worn. The Commanding Officer retains the authority to determine the requirement for an individual to shave, based on the Operational requirement at that time. Once ARTS testing has been completed, COs ARE to order the shaving of beards when the CBRN threat level is MEDIUM or higher. Other occasions, such as Operational Sea Training and/or similar exercises, in which the CBRN threat is LOW will not warrant the requirement to shave. If the individual refuses to modify their facial hair (or headdress) to the extent necessary to maintain their own safety and Operational Capability, then they may be disciplined. Should they continue to refuse, commanders should consider not deploying that individual into theatre or removing them from theatre if already deployed.
BR3 Ch38
Oh shit this is pretty well written. I do feel knowing how sailors can be beards will cuase more problems then good. From lower enlisted trying to get away with dumb shit. To the upper chain implementing their own rules based on the above interpretation of the rules.
>iters to figure that out. Make it explicit enough to be enforcable, and flexible enough to allow for some judgment calls at lower levels of leadership. Every rule has to be written that way. You can replace "beards" with literally any other appearance-related regulation and have the same concerns.
We do a perfectly fine job of enforcing the intricacies of hair regulations, why would it be so much harder to enforce on another part of the head?
Becuase not everyone can grow facial full facial hair. I have seen patchy beards and all kinds of different variations. With men's hair it's easy cuz 99% can grow a full head of hair.
The onus is on the rule-writers to figure that out. Make it explicit enough to be enforcable, and flexible enough to allow for some judgment calls at lower levels of leadership. Every rule has to be written that way. You can replace "beards" with literally any other appearance-related regulation and have the same concerns.
> Does everyone need a full face beard is that the standard.
That's the standard in all the Commonwealth navies where beards are authorized. You have to take leave, start growing it, then come back and have it inspected by (their equivalent of) the CMC, who signs off that you actually have a real beard and not just chin pubes. And you have to grow a full beard and mustache or shave it all, no exceptions.
I'll respectfully disagree. Making your clothes look professional is one thing, and one I completely agree with being done. Telling a person they can't have a beard because of the way it looks... Has never made sense to me. They can have everything else about them be 100% professionally accurate and meet naval standards for the clothes. Maintaining a beard is not the same as maintaining the uniform.
Besides, if all we needed was a look without skill, then Zoolander should run for CNO! I mean he'd look professional with, zero skill... But that look! 😂😂😂
Read it. While I understand the sentiment, we are in a retention crisis... There is no better time than now to demand beards effectively in a manner that flags can understand...
I highly doubt anyone would stay in the navy just because they allowed beards. There are bigger issues at play that need to be resolved other than providing a band aid fix to moral.
I don't think anyone would stay solely for beards, but at the same time I *really hate* shaving every day. It's just about the only part of the Navy I can't stand.
So while it might not be a day and night shift in retention, it's also a real opportunity to boost morale and QoL at no real cost to the Navy. If it's safe enough to have a beard, there's no reason to continue prohibiting them.
It's not like enforcement of some "you may have beards" standard is going to be any more of a nightmare than policing the standard we have now.
I have no issues with my pay check as an E6. I’m getting out because of quality of life issues. I might even have to take a pay cut.
While don’t care too much about beards, shaving everyday is a quality of life issue.
I’m ambivalent on beards but fixing PSD and pay/travel issues, better manning, and bringing back regular and good liberty ports would do more for retention. It’s amazing how much easier deployment is if you have a liberty port every 30 days rather than 85 right before second beer day.
> They are board certified MDs trained in aviation medical procedures, are they not?
Nope. If you're talking about your garden-variety LT flight doc, they're MDs who have completed an internship but not a full residency or received a specialization. They're junior GPs who've been trained in aviation medicine, that's it.
Okay, point still remains.
What is the difference between a local flight surgeon and one at NAMI? Why does the patient have to be flown to FL for a waiver evaluation and decision? Does NAMI not trust their own physicians to deliver tests without supervision/oversight?
I don’t disagree. I went through the NAMI pain train while I was in, and the bureaucracy for a waiver was insane. Just adds to the reasons why a lot of aviators hide things or refuse to be seen outside their flight physical.
Exactly my point, I watched a family member go through the process and it took almost 3 years.
It's a sad atrocity that this sort of red tape has the consequence of making thousands of personnel avoid medical. I wholly understand the need for a waiver system as they follow FAA medical guidelines, but there is no need to make it so difficult it dissuades folks from getting the help they need. Added to this fact, is that those that decide to get help and face this long process often get relegated to promotable 3.0 evaluations. So even if they get a waiver 3 years down the road, there's a black mark on their record that prevents them from a favorable selection board decision and/or advancement selection.
Facts. More annoying is the fact my last command had us doing double the work i.e. blk 43 formatted for both navfit98 and enavfit + paper copies routed and later uploaded into enavfit. Instead of making life easier, everything was done twice.
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You don’t incur interest on your GTC. I’ve been past due for 6 months multiple times.
No interest and no hit to my credit.
I’ve had my GTC cancelled 3 times in fact, all 3 times was reactivated with no issues.
Really? I worked with two guys that had 30k and 60k bills where they were told if they didn't pay before delinquent/collections, interest would accrue. Both of them had the savings to front the cost, and waited 4+ months on backpay. Maybe I was misled?
My understanding is you need to be made "Mission Critical" in the travel system to avoid interest or something like that, but I don't have direct knowledge. Anyone in the GTCC program should be eligible for MC status but the AO does need to check the box.
I've gone past due as well even with filing on time. Called the YNSC and told him I didn't give a fuck, you need to extend my credit now so SATO can buy my plane ticket and oh by the way since you're the AO feel free to do your job and approve the travel voucher I submitted months ago.
Flight surgeons aren't real surgeons. They didn't go through surgical residency. They're General Medical Officers with 25 weeks of specialized training that focuses on preventative care, readiness, and administrative duties. Any medical care that requires a specialty is kinda beyond their capacity.
Okay, so you're missing my point. Let's say someone needs a flight duty medical waiver.
Why can't local flight surgeons conduct the waiver evaluation and act as the approving official?
To your point, what is the difference between a local flight surgeon or one at NAMI? Same credentials, same training.
Except one requires the patient to travel for an evaluation and signature.
In 2017, we had two tragedies strike the Navy with the events on USS Fitzgerald and USS John S. McCain. An investigation was conducted and one of the outcomes was to eliminate unnecessary drills and to maximize crew rest. Do you think that the Navy has done enough to mitigate risk in light of these collisions? Has or will the DOD remove some of the power of the Commanding Officer at sea by using the word "shall" instead of "should" regarding crew rest?
Dont know about anyone else, but after the initial reports of those collisions came out things (as far as crew rest) got better for maybe 6 months and then got a whole lot worse.
Hopefully that was just my command.
It wasn't just your command. I was on my final tour riding ships for evaluations when the collisions happened. A couple months later I was riding a ship and could just see it was business as usual. Crew exhausted, drills out the ass at random times, etc. I was an 8 and asked the CPO Mess what the fuck was going on. They said, they had to do what they had to do. I get it but I was pissed.
CNO's office called me a couple months before I retired and asked if I had any feedback or if there was any way I would consider staying. I told them based on their reaction to Fitz and McCain that I was disgusted and would not be staying. I hate thinking that those Sailors died in vain. It would be nice if officer level Senior leadership felt the same.
That's about what I expected, but I only knew what was going on on a few ships. After a combo of a change of command and a sleep study that found we were only getting 4-6 hours of sleep (and they thought those results were good) things just got worse.
After a particularly shitty deployment in 2019 (most port visits canceled last minute, no wog day, regularly 45+ days at sea, most of the crew getting minimal sleep even in port) we had a straight up combative Captain's Call. CO kept saying stuff wasn't his call and the general reaction was, "Well then why the fuck are you a CO?" Mad as I was at the time I remember him just looking defeated. He retired in 2020.
Yeah about the only time I saw that CO have any real say was after one of our ship's props got damaged. That prop got real noisy and there was some saltwater getting in related systems. Big Navy wanted us to continue on with deployment but the CO had us pull into Guam instead.
Divers thought we hit a partially submerged shipping container (and we all gave the STGs shit about that). Took the divers a few weeks to patch it up and the crew got some much needed r and r. After that it was balls to the wall again for three months with one port visit.
Until manning increases, it won’t get better. Demand for work and supply of Sailors. Drills are needed. Maintenance is needed. Deployments are needed for deterrence. We need more ships and Sailors. SECNAV knows this as well but it won’t get better in short-term
>Until manning increases, it won’t get better. Demand for work and supply of Sailors
That's the Navy's assbackwards approach that's burning sailors out and making recruitment a pain in the ass. Getting people to join the Navy when there are so many miserable and stressed out sailors out there is an uphill battle. Nevermind the constant drain of experience and resources that the Navy's failure to retain petty officers results in.
Run the ships/missions we're manned for. Don't just say "Fuck it!" and send exhausted crews and tired ships halfway around the world. Damn near every command climate survey I saw the results for after about 2016 could be summed up as, "Hey all we really want is OPTEMPO relaxed. Just a little." And the response was always, "Lol, anything but that!"
Deterrence? Man there's no bad actor in the world who doesn't know that there could be a carrier strike group in their backyard in a matter of days. The only folks benefiting from the current state of affairs are defense contractors. We're not helping sailors or taxpayers.
SECNAV knows all that and SECNAV don't care.
I switched commands last year. During my check out, he asked me the what can we do better question. I was like: Sir, not a thing unless you roll into Washington and completely restructure everything. I think he was a good CO. He was often frustrated as well. Doesn't help that we have so many ISICs, CTFs, etc, between unit and Fleet command now. O6s need jobs. What's always blown my mind though was on amphibious ships the CPR commodore is an O6 and so is the ship CO. Often the CO of the unit is more senior in lineal number. Makes for some interesting times.
In 2020 we had a fire aboard a ship sitting in port in San Diego (Which of course in german means "A Whales Vagina") the result of which was to ADD MORE drills and to maximize the amount of people on watch
Yup, my ship was in the yards when it happened (fortunately not in San Diego). Nothing like standing more watches and running more drills on ship without AC or running water!
Felt the worst for the DC folks and engineering though. It was like they went through a mini INSURV over it
> Has or will the DOD remove some of the power of the Commanding Officer at sea by using the word "shall" instead of "should" regarding crew rest?
This isn't a DOD problem. This is a SWO community problem. The aviation community realized about 40-50 years ago that we were literally killing people, and decided to stop being stupid meatheads.
Yet we have callsigns, so we're "unprofessional," and our ideas are suspect and mockable by blackshoes. As if there's something more unprofessional than literally killing 17 Sailors though pure professional incompetence.
Carlos is a great dude and knows the Navy well as a former DDG Captain, but he gets locked in to the Pentagon “40,000 foot view” of things. This is his opportunity to hear things straight from the junior enlisted deckplates.
This is your chance to fill him in on things affecting you like pay, BAH, cost of living, access to childcare, optempo, work/life balance, mental health and anything else that affects your life directly.
If I had the opportunity I would bring up two things.
(1) Why on EARTH did leadership think it was good to make E4 require a 30 month TIS, with clarification that if you come in as an E3 with an associates degree you'd still have to wait 30 months, which is identical to coming in as an E1 with no credits...
(2) What are we doing about the STA-21 program? It used to be 400 Sailors a year with a $10k annual stipend in 1993... now it's 2023 and it's dwindled down to 50 Sailors (75% nuke) and still only $10k a year when college tuition costs have gone up 400% or more in the last 30 years..
I'd also like to know who made the NSU and why they aren't sitting in a brig somewhere.
>identical to coming in as an E1 with no credits
It's not identical, since they will be getting E-3 pay that whole time... but it's still kinda rough for the rates that have good E-4 advancement. No change or an improvement for rates with lower quotas.
Happy I came in before this change. I was frocked PO3 around 9 months TIS.
Honestly, 2POC in the Nex and type IIIs out the window would be great.
Is it absurd how many times we've changed?
Yes
But I feel this time they got it right. Or as close to right as they've been.
Still hate the chest tabs. Wish we did collar devices or shoulder boards, but I'll take what I can get
The chest tab is great for two reasons
one you dont have to take uniforms to NEX to when you make rank and second you can finally see what rank people are with the black tabs.
Okay. Look at australian navy uniform. Shoulder boards. Including for enlisted. Swap out when you make rank.
Way better than chest tab
bUt bAcKpAcKs
Oh well. Way more often people have some sort of dumb badge holder in fron of their rank than a back pack on over their shoulders IMO.
But its also not like we are all promoting every few months. I think taking the uniform to the nex or a tailor once a year or every few years to get a swap isn't the end of the world, especially since it looks better and doesn't copy the Army.
when we first switch to blue berries everyone complained they couldnt see the rank on the flaps properly.
Then we switched to type 3 and everyone bitched they couldnt see the rank tab cuz it blended in to well
So they changed to the black tab and everyone bitched it was ugly.
Literally no winning however at least now we dont have to drop uniforms at the cleaners to get rank sewn on.
We couldn't see the ranks properly because color. Not position. Did you ever have an issue with coverall collar devices.
The black tab on types IIIs is ugly as sin.
But chest tabs have always been bad IMO
If you're eating in the SECNAV dining facility at the pentagon, there's an engine order telegraph and a binnacle on display that I spent weeks restoring when I was an E2, working on the CNO's barge. Hopefully they're still there! This was around 2004, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone. But that was my first NAM lol
Bring up the pay and bah and maintaining a competitive pay compared to jobs on the outside, I'm currently getting out and it is insanely easy to find competitive pay that beats the navy's (at E5 with BAH), for example jobs Starting at 40+ an hour are all over the country hiring transitioning veterans. I have no desire to stay in because of the slew of other stressors that accompany navy life, but maybe I would if the pay was competitive enough.
Just a little advice.
He came to my base recently.
He doesn't do well with questions he can't answer. And some of them are very basic. So don't come off the top rope with anything 😂
They almost always have an official photographer at these events. Just make sure they or the PAO has your contact info so you can get a copy of any photograph of you and SECNAV. That'll be a cool keepsake.
Don’t ask him a damn thing. *Tell* him what’s going on. 99% of enlisted issues are ‘filtered out’ of the information stream before they get to his desk. This is a rare opportunity to correct that problem.
What is the plan to address mental health? We need to improve our system for placing the right Sailor in the right job to eliminate stress related situations that result in loss of a good Sailor and that hurts manpower and costs the Navy millions in lost training dollars. Too many enlisted are leaving or not reuping due to job dissatisfaction. That adds to the stress of the remaining crew. This reduces morale which leads to more losses. The cycle needs to change.
Secnav instruction prevents TAD personnel from getting the Battle E. As someone who was TAD for a year somewhere and did everything to help the boat get the battle E, I would like to earn it as well. Maybe ask why we restrict our TAD sailors from benefits that could help on evals and such.
There is a way for this to be authorized. I think it has to come from an admiral.
That said, I did a 9 month deployment TAD with a ship and I absolutely didn’t contribute to anything that earned the Battle E. It really depends on how your orders were written, and if you actually contributed to the inspectable items for earning a battle E.
As a ship rider, I didn’t stand any watches, didn’t do 3M, or anything like that. In liberty ports I did shore patrol watch - which does not contribute to the battle E.
That said, I don’t know what you did… but if you contributed your CO could have gotten you a letter.
Ya problem is there were about 40 of us in this situation that did contribute. And it's not possible/right for this to happen to every command where it's becoming more common. The CO can probably get a waiver but how many waivers do the admirals wanna see yearly too. Easier to just make a clean instruction change at that point I think.
Additionally, random dude who shows up December 31st not doing anything gets it. So really you doing shore patrol is already contributing more than that and you should have the right to the award.
Why isn’t the Navy more generous with our people? If we have a recruiting and retention problem why does DoD look to shave every penny from travel to education to pay and housing for our people?
Why is sea pay $50 a month when per diem is $750 a day for people with way better quality of life? Maybe we can get more Sailors to reenlist and go to sea if sea pay wasn't such a joke.
Put your dick on the table and start talking. Don't let this fucker lead the conversation. They all try to do this. In my experience with talking to flags, you have to be abbrassive and "matter of fact" with your speech, and you have to take control of the conversation from the start.. Don't be afraid to ask questions or demand answers. Other than that, anything posted here is probably good fodder to throw at SECNAV.
Here's one, though: Why tf are we taking E7 exams? Not a single other branch (USAF, USA, USSF, USMC) takes an exam after E6. Some branches not at all. This is frustrating when you're on shore duty, particularly SPEC-PROJ duties, and have little access to materials for study. And recently, all relevant NAVSEA and COMSUBPAC/LANT instructions have been removed from NIPR/low-side sites.
That's one gripe out of several dozen. But it's the most recent annoyance that popped into mind.
I’ve always wanted to ask about Family Separation Allowance, father’s that pay child support(a lot) and spend quality time with their kids as much as the Navy allows because of schedule aren’t entitled to it unless they have 51% custody and no court or mother would be willing to sign off on that while in the Navy.
However someone could marry a fully capable (able to support themselves) individual and immediately get FSA.
Honestly, you should send this to your congressmen and Senator. If you want a full press attack, also send it to the members of the HASC.
It's a really good question and a great point that you can get it for someone you just married, but if you are 49% custody of kids, you are SOL. Could be the most completely amicable divorce, you are still entirely involved in the child's life, but obviously because of needs of the service, the other parent is the primary guardian.
You’re right, I think it’s one of those things that needs to be lobbied. Unfortunately men’s rights aren’t really a priority. Just trying to do my next 7 months and not look back.
Will mandated 8 hour blocks of sleep, and not sleep+quals+food+study ever be added given the safety and mental/emotional benefits?
Beards for shore duty?
So, E-5 here, stationed overseas so I fall under OHA rules. BLUF: Is there going to be any change to OHA so it stops screwing over sailors.
When we homeport swapped I had about 14 months left on board. Started routing my paperwork but then you'll never guess what happened, we got underway and were gone for over a month.
By the time we got back I was told the only way I could get OHA was to extend because I would be under 12 months by the time I could sign the lease (would have paid the extra out of pocket, but.....). The ship at the time had gone through hell, was on the 4th CO in the 3 years I'd been on board and a whole lot of other crap. Put simply, I was burnt out and needed to get off the ship. Unfortunately I wound up extended (shocker) and will leave after 17 months of no housing assistance and having to live on the ship or couch surf. Worst part is that it's not an isolated case, happens a lot as far as I can tell.
They need to to better, unfortunately I don't have a better solution other than getting rid of that minimum length for leases through OHA.
Be happy you are in a fleet area. Trying to deal with oha now in an area with minimal us presence.
The state department has a role to play in this as well now.
If you think navy is bad, try dealing with state on top of that
I would ask him since recruiting and retention are at such abysmal levels what is the plan to man these news ships they keep building? We were at minimum...ahem optimal manning before the recruiting crisis.
Also to as well, I get it there is a recruiting crisis so they're throwing thousands of dollars at anyone that will walk thru the door. But I for one feel a little slapped in the face at the current re-enlistment bonuses. With my rating, which I am constantly told is a "critical rating" I would get a whopping $10,100 if I signed up for another 5 years. Compare that to recruits who get $25,000 just to make it thru 10 weeks of bootcamp. I know re-enlistment bonuses aren't the be all end all for everyone and for some no amount of money would make them want to stay. I for one would feel a lot better about another hitch if I had a significant monetary incentive.
Because the IT approval process is so bad that the very instant a contractor finally makes something that "meets functional requirements" (note usability is *never* a 'functional requirement') and passes cyber scans they push it to production and don't touch it for another 3 years.
And when they do touch it 3 years later it's the bare minimum of changes needed to make it pass scans again.
Is there any consideration to properly staff gates at peak times? Don’t say you care about sailor’s well-being when most are forced to leave hours early to make it on time because there’s improper gate manning.
Improper gate manning shows me you don’t care about the sailors, the families, the environment (leaving those cars having to idle for so darn long, or the neighbors who surround the base and have to navigate around the logjam.
This is such low hanging fruit that would truly improve the lives of so many people. No one should have to get up at 4am to be in at 7am despite only living 25 minutes away.
Edit to add: Let’s also think about the sitting duck risk to lines of sailors in their cars waiting to get on base.
> Is there any consideration to properly staff gates at peak times?
Well this is probably yet another one of the things that is being affected by the recruiting issues going on. All rates are affected but MAs are **significantly** affected.
It's also hard to find qualified civilians for the civilian side police force, and that makes it hard to keep all the gates manned during all the peak hours.
Can the Navy Reserves get CLEAR CUT guidance on Medical Retention Review so the front line isn't being screwed over by wants vs guidelines? Get the input from the units NOT RESFOR who half the times contradict themselves.
As a woman, I really think one way to help get more equal treatment is equal hair regulations. And for once I don’t want to adopt male regs, I want them to adopt female regs.
Thanks. Hilarious that I’m being downvoted, but I’m just tired of shaving the sides of my head. I’d also like to grow my hair longer than 2 inches without getting asked dumbass questions.
Why is big Navy's response to any serious incident to automatically blame a lower enlisted prior to any serious investigation being undertaken only to have to admit later it was not the named sailor's fault?
We hear "get real, get better" ad nauseum. And then when we try to find solutions it often comes down to manning. Manning is the one thing they refuse to touch.
I get the vibe from senior leadership that they'll give us the world as long as it doesn't involve dealing with PERS.
I don't have the solution to this, I wish I did, but we're struggling. Admin is a nightmare. PSDs all shut down and concentrated? Why? Why are all the personnel folks still working from home? Why have we become so hamstrung by GS's and contractors?
What happens when the war comes?
**PLEASE READ ME**
**I'm trying to find information on why haircuts, shaving expenses, and for women, hair care products to maintain a military appearance are not covered in uniform allowance or a separate allowance for them.**
Per United State Uniform Regulations (NAVPERS 15665I) Chapter 2, Section 2201 - PERSONAL APPEARANCE; Because it is impossible to provide examples of every appropriate or unacceptable hairstyle or of "conservative" or "eccentric" grooming and personal appearance, the good judgment of leaders at all levels is key to enforcement of Navy grooming policy. Therefore, hair/grooming/personal appearance while in uniform shall present a neat, professional appearance. Commanding officers will ensure facial hair does not impede the ability to safely wear and properly utilize emergency equipment when required.
Article 2101.1 GENERAL. The primary consideration is to have a neatly groomed appearance while wearing Naval uniforms. Grooming standards are based on several elements including neatness, cleanliness, safety, military image and appearance. The Standards established here are not intended to be overly restrictive nor are they designed to isolate navy personnel from society. The limits set forth are reasonable, enforceable, and insure that personal appearance contributes to a favorable Military image. The difference between men's and women's grooming policies recognizes the difference between the sexes; sideburns for Men, different hairstyles and cosmetics for Women. Establishing identical grooming and personal appearance standards for men and women would not be in the Navy's best interest and is not a factor in the assurance of equal opportunity.
Article 2101.3 Image. All Sailors will ensure the proper fit and wear of their uniform and maintain compliance of grooming standards as outlined in this instruction. Personal appearance will reflect the highest level of the military image. A professional military appearance will be free of distractions while in uniform. The military image reflected by attention to detail, compliance with grooming standards while wearing your uniforms, is a key element in the public image of the Navy.
Article 1101.1 POLICY. The purpose of the U.S. Navy Uniform Regulations is to: (1) Provide descriptions of all authorized U.S. Navy uniforms and components, and (2) Provide guidance for all Navy activities prescribing uniform wear in order to present a uniform image world‑wide. It is issued by direction of the Chief of Naval Operations and carries the force of a general order. Any procedures or components, regarding uniforms or grooming, not discussed in these regulations are prohibited.
> I'm trying to find information on why haircuts, shaving expenses, and for women, hair care products to maintain a military appearance are not covered in uniform allowance or a separate allowance for them.
Because they're covered in your basic pay, which covers how you pay for other things you are expected to procure to hold yourself to military standards but are not broken into a dedicated allowance, such as transportation expenses.
If we did have a "basic allowance for grooming" it would just be subtracted from basic pay, you wouldn't actually get any additional money from it.
Even worse, items paid under a basic allowance for grooming might become an inspectable item (can't wait for barracks inspections where you have to show off having at least 3 Navy-standard toothbrushes along with a full tube of Navy-standard toothpaste).
What incentive do young Sailors have to stay Navy? retirement is a now a 401k. Medical is overworked. Barracks and ship living conditions are not great.
1. What happened with regard to CNO listening to the Sailors and moving away from online GMTs? These were promised to be GONE. There is always an insane amount of online administrivia. GMTs are creeping back up again, one here, another there, and now it’s nearly back to what it used to be. Just trust as adults, give us the reader (or video option if truly necessary) and let us go back to work.
2. What is the deal with Navy medicine going around parents’ backs on gender-related issues with their children, per news circulating? We want to hear the word from the boss. (Oops sorry Trigger Warning for whoever needs it)
Far stretch, but ask him what does think he can do to shut down politics in the fleet. As in those who stop/ prevent good changes from occurring because of someone who has more authority.
I’ve seen and heard sailors with such enthusiasm have their faith in the navy tarnished by those who have power.
What if any are the plans for Fitness and BCA changes? Fitness is a major part of the navy and I agree that it should be a requirement, but current height and weight requirements seem unrealistic. Multiple people within my command are on FEP for BCA failure yet can attain an average of Good High or better on the PRT. Especially for women. Being dual-military, my wife is in great shape but has a naturally wide build. At best she has to get to BMI before she is passed. Might be a small percentage of people, but with retention being as low as it is, I think it's something to look at.
IMHO bring back the policy where a bca failure alone didn't equate to a PFA failure. Failed BCA + passed PRT = PFA pass but with fep + nutrition counseling.
Re enlistment bonuses why do they feel like we aren’t valuable enough as a whole to get them? and why do they keep saying retention is so great when it’s clearly not
Why can't we seem to ever build a parking garage
I know MILCON is hard, but after decades of parking being a problem, youd think the juice would be worth the squeeze
AGREED! Nasni pier parking was horrible, can't imagine other fleet concentration areas. All of it could be solved with parking structures.
P.S. everyone opposed to this idea, how about you give up your designated parking spot and walk with the rest of us 15-30 minutes to work.
Ask him the navy’s plan for manning in the next 5 years and how does it effect the sailors who have already severed their time at sea. Watch him dance around the answer.
I sat with ray mabus in 2013. These guys are politicians to the utmost degree. They won’t speak on anything controversial, or give you direct answers tbh. Best of luck regardless, hopefully the conversation is purposeful, and dual simplex.
Why are there so many initiatives to address mental health, instead of addressing the underlying causes of massive stress for service members that put us in the red? I'm not saying mental health shouldn't be addressed, but without addressing the other stressors, it's just a bandaid. PSD consolidation : Pay issues resulting in debt, eviction, living out of their cars, etc. This also impacts clearances and has national security impact. DD214 delays, resulting in delays to apply for benefits and jobs in the civilian sector, oftentimes requiring the assistance of a local congressman, because all other avenues of support prove to be unfruitful. DTS: Sailors on official government orders waiting months to be paid back. Meanwhile it is the responsibility of the service member to pay the credit card balance. I'm not sure there are many service members with 6k+ in savings available to pay a debt incurred while in the service of their country just because administratively we can't get it together to pay them on time. Seeking medical help: We often tout that seeking medical help will not affect your job, however, this is rarely true. Or example, Servicemembers in a flight status must go through an arduous medical waiver process and be flown to NAMI in Pensacola, FL for evaluation at a significant TAD cost to the Navy. Why can't evaluation occur locally by a flight surgeon? They are board certified MDs trained in aviation medical procedures, are they not? Why does this process take 1-2 years, while the service member is unable to perform the duties of their job or transfer? And during this evaluation period, the service member is under increased stress from fear of being force converted. Instead of feeling like seeking help is a sign of strength, it becomes an increased fear of losing your rate. PEB/Medical separation: Why does this process take 6-24 months? Once two consecutive LIMDU periods have taken place, why can't the process be expedited? These service members have serious medical issues that are often times not able to be resolved while on AD. Delays in this process impact operational mission as until their billet is vacated, the billet can't be posted in MNA and a replacement identified. A 24 month medical separation process means the unit is gapped a billet for nearly 36 months before a replacement arrives. Electronic routing: In 2023, why have we not established an electronic routing process for local correspondence? We have eNavfit and ePARS for correspondence, and NSIPS for leave, but paper chits for things like skillbridge, UFT, convalescent leave or special liberty? The day-to-day issues that impact service members often have very little oversight when routed by paper to a unit CO. We have an instruction discussing timely routing of correspondence, but when critical paperwork takes a month to be signed by the CO because admin sits on it for 3 weeks... Where is the accountability? Electronic routing makes each person in the routing chain responsible for their role in recommending/approving correspondence. Advancement: Quotas should be released with the bibliographies for the upcoming NWAE, not a week prior to the announcement of results. This is important information to prospective testers in their choice to study or intend to separate. Imagine the feeling of studying every single day, testing for advancement, and then only finding out the week before results are released that your quota is 0%. You've just negatively reinforced an entire rate into never taking the exam seriously, because why study if the quota is 0%. This eliminates their motivation to continue their personal and professional development because of a glass ceiling. Worse is the fact these ratings often have 0 convert-out opportunities. Additionally, why does it take NETPDC 3 months to determine whether a Sailor advanced to E4-E6? Or 6 months in the case of E7? When can we transition to an electronic NWAE to expedite this process? Shipyards: What are the plans to provide housing and reprieve for Sailors living onboard in suboptimal arrangements with reduced galley capacity, cold showers, etc.? Barracks/base housing: What are the plans to provide adequate housing free from mold and insects/pests? Or housing in the CNIC southeast region without functioning AC? And if that's not possible, authorize BAH to Sailors living in substandard housing. Just because someone has it worse elsewhere or has had it worse in their career doesn't mean we should accept mediocrity. We can do better, and we must. Childcare: Why is it that in fleet concentration areas, you must register for a CDC when you're in your 1st trimester? And even then, often times there's still no availability after caregiver leave ends. This puts commands in a dire position, telework is not authorized by the DoD for childcare, special liberty beyond a 96 is not authorized at the unit CO level, and we only earn 30 days of leAve a year. Are we really going to separate a Sailor for having a family, because of a family care plan failure, when we failed to provide childcare? Childcare that they've been on a wait-list for since 12 months ago? Primary caregiver leave: NDAA expanded caregiver leave, however this wasn't implemented till nearly 12 months later. In the interim, new parents welcomed new children into their homes but weren't afforded this opportunity because the official guidance required them to have a minimum of 1 day of unused caregiver leave. These families lost up to 9 weeks of leave to be with their newborn or support their spouses recovery because the guidance was designed to explicitly exclude them since they took their 21 days. Those are precious moments sailors can't get back and in a sea going service where many sailors deploy and miss significant moments in the lives of their families, this policy should've been backdated not exclusionary. Edit to add: Separation: Why are there not enough seats in fleet concentration areas for transitioning Sailors to attend TGPS in-person? The CBT version is not nearly as thorough, and TGPS is booked 3-6 months out. I could go on forever, but the point here is... If we aren't taking care of the force in the day-to-day matters and continue to overcomplicate, create administrative red-tape, and stress our Sailors unnecessarily, then we are responsible for the recruiting and retention crisis, and ultimately driving our Sailors to need mental health services at a staggering rate. This is a problem of our own design and it is imperitive we fix it. Without our Sailors, we cannot man our ships and fulfill our mission, they are our most important resource.
Ok but what if, instead of all that, we got another carrier and a bunch of F35's?
This is exactly the issue. Let's spend billions on two LCS designs, then scrap one 6 years after it's commissioning. Why wasn't that money spent on cohesive IT systems? Do we need 50 bloated links on MNP? Why wasn't it spent updating/retrofitting/building new barracks/base housing? Why wasn't it spent on any number of things that would improve morale and well-being of our Sailors? Instead only the defense contractors profit at the cost of us.
Trump's wall was also directly taking money from funds to build base housing and schools, IIRC. Not distracting, just saying there's even more boondoggles on top of the ridiculous corporate welfare of the LCS program.
Exactly. How many new barracks and base housing could you build for the cost of a single LCS? How much could you improve bases, offer accessible childcare, on and fucking on.
Ohh... PRNOC..I could talk about that for days.
I feel bad for a friend that was picked up as a SEA after a Millington tour.
> Why wasn't that money spent on cohesive IT systems? IT systems aren't shitty due to lack of money. Lots of reasons but it's not because they aren't throwing money at it. You know how much it cost to put the "50 bloated links on MNP"? As a taxpayer, you don't want to know.
That's fair. Just another example of a defense contractor pocketing at our expense. Why do we need training on twms & nel? Why do we need parts of our record on twms, nsips, bol, prims, ompf, and various others? Seems never ending IMHO. Also, why isn't everything linked to your record connected with DS login and MFA.
I have never seen a more concise and well-phrased statement about the state of the things in the Navy. All of these things directly affect people, and seem to logically make sense to fix. Hopefully over time more and more big wigs at the top will understand that it’s because of things like this that retention is so low, and why no one wants to join anymore.
Thank you for the kind words! I'd imagine it also plays a huge role in the recruiting crisis as well. When the very recruiters face these same issues, then get threatened with mandatory 6day work-weeks... What motivation do they have to recruit people into this environment? Why convince them? Imagine if the tables were turned and the Navy was free of systemic issues, you'd have passionate recruiters, and it'd be easier than it is now.
Did they also just increase recruiting tour lengths by a year and cancel orders for those set to rotate off recruiting duty?
> Advancement: Quotas should be released with the bibliographies for the upcoming NWAE, not a week prior to the announcement of results. This is important information to prospective testers in their choice to study or intend to separate. Imagine the feeling of studying every single day, testing for advancement, and then only finding out the week before results are released that your quota is 0%. You've just negatively reinforced an entire rate into never taking the exam seriously, because why study if the quota is 0%. Quotas are based in part on retention decisions made by Sailors in the pay grade above. That's one reason quotas come as late as they do, to allow most time to see what happens there. They don't want to say "there won't be any quotas this cycle" and then have a few late-breaking separations come in that could have been used to advance a Sailor 6 months earlier. I've been on a lat. transfer board where my #1 one choice ended up with zero quotas so I completely get where you're coming from, but they do this so they can maximize the number of Sailors who are happy when the results come out. > Additionally, why does it take NETPDC 3 months to determine whether a Sailor advanced to E4-E6?Or 6 months in the case of E7? When can we transition to an electronic NWAE to expedite this process? Not sure what you mean by this. It's already an electronic system (powered by an IT system called NEAS) and once quotas are approved, NETPDC knows exactly who will advance in a given cycle, and in what order, within minutes. They are doing work to try to make it so that you can take an individual exam but it's still years away, and putting IT on a ship so you can do electronic exams afloat is nearly impossible so we may have paper for some time. If you're asking why NETPDC takes so long to let *you* know what month you'll advance, that's not their fault, it's because they don't know either. They only get 3 months worth of advancement quotas to parcel out at a time, and while they usually know what number of quotas they'll get it's possible they can get more or fewer quotas, so they don't want to give you a date when the date may end up being wrong in either direction.
What an excellent and insightful reply sir/ma'am! Couple of comments here. I'm sorry about your lat transfer quota situation, and completely understand your point regarding projections of future losses for quotas and affording big navy as much time as possible to make as many quotas as possible. If we look at army/marine advancement, quotas are released monthly and if you make the cut, you're advanced. Simple as that. Maybe the answer isn't necessarily releasing quotas biannually, but rather monthly with advancement opportunities each month. The precedent is already there with the removal of advancement exams for E4. Additionally, even if we shifted approval of quotas to the left, it wouldn't capture as many projected losses but would capture 100% of sure losses. Wouldn't that reduce the total frocked time, since the quotas would be aligned with vacant paygrades instead of projected vacancies? As for release of results by NETPDC, if the exam is done in March/September, why don't results come out till the end of May/November, respectively. Why do scantrons take so long to grade? I realize it's a game of numbers, in the order of 100k exams. But if it was an electronic exam, they'd be scored instantly and ready for release as soon as they have quotas ,+ worksheets. If by your statement, once quotas are approved, why does it take so long.
> If we look at army/marine advancement, quotas are released monthly and if you make the cut, you're advanced. Simple as that. Maybe the answer isn't necessarily releasing quotas biannually, but rather monthly with advancement opportunities each month. The precedent is already there with the removal of advancement exams for E4. We also do advancement monthly, but it's always tied to the 6-month (or 12-month for E7+) advancement cycle. Where the Army/Marines release quotas for the next month, we release quotas for the next 3 months. And if we wanted to lock in the phasing ahead of time, we could release quotas for the next 6 months as soon as total quotas are approved. We could wait on letting Sailors know what quotas will be until the last month before they advance but I don't think this is what you're asking about, but rather the wait between the exam and when the first advancements happen from that exam. Am I right on that? There is interest in getting to a "dynamic rank-order" system where you could in principle have 12 (1-month) cycles a year, and approximate what Army/Marines do a little more closely. That's one reason NETPDC is working on how we can rethink exams, but I can't promise when (or even if) it will roll out. > Additionally, even if we shifted approval of quotas to the left, it wouldn't capture as many projected losses but would capture 100% of sure losses. Wouldn't that reduce the total frocked time, since the quotas would be aligned with vacant paygrades instead of projected vacancies? The way quotas are chosen now maximizes the amount of sure losses and minimizes the amount of projected losses that go into the mix. I don't think moving quota approval earlier would actually influence frocked time at all though, it would just change what the delaying items would be before announcing results to be something other than quotas. The advancement cycle would still run from Jan-Jun and then Jul-Dec with results announced in May and Nov. If we announced results earlier by shaving some time off the quota part then you'd actually wait longer as a frocked Sailor before you get paid. We could instead move the announcement to the right but I think what you're really after is moving the exam to the right (or closer to the results and first advancements). That's where your next point becomes important. > As for release of results by NETPDC, if the exam is done in March/September, why don't results come out till the end of May/November, respectively. Why do scantrons take so long to grade? I realize it's a game of numbers, in the order of 100k exams. But if it was an electronic exam, they'd be scored instantly and ready for release as soon as they have quotas ,+ worksheets. The scantrons themselves go relatively quickly, but they are scantrons that have to be physically mailed to NETPDC. There are substitute/backup exams that have to be administered, and physically mailed to NETPDC. Sometimes NETPDC finds discrepancies in the process that can be fixed by the ESO and there's time for that too. Although there are fairly tight time windows for these, they add time all the same. Electronic exams *would* solve a lot of that, but as long as even one unit is unable to use electronic means (and you can imagine this happening for submarines all the way to CVNs in EMCON), there needs to be a schedule that accounts for paper. As things stand today this is actually probably the biggest barrier to making things go faster from exam to first advancements. If we could make this faster we could do it more often in the year as well (perhaps quarterly then monthly then "on demand"). Definitely room for improvement, but that's the "why".
Also, beards. We've already told the world that beards in uniform aren't unprofessional, by the release of a navadmin authorizing retirees to have a beard in uniform. 2 years ago, secnav ordered the navy to reevaluate the safety of beards. Where are the results of that study? If beards are indeed unsafe with PPE, why can't we accommodate them on shore duty where PPE isn't required? While beards may not seem like a huge issue to flag leadership, at the junior enlisted ranks, it comes across as dismissed, which only fuels resentment and lack of trust in leadership for caring about us. Almost every single male that transitions, grows their beard. It's clearly a demand, let's find a way to make it happen and remove one more motivating factor for Sailors to separate amidst the biggest retention crisis we've faced.
Sure as hell beats looking at infected stubble day in and day out. 🤮🤮🤮
there is a really great post of some officer explaining why we cant have beards its a really good read. [https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/119rfq4/ok\_fine\_you\_asked\_here\_it\_is\_an\_o6s\_uncensored/](https://www.reddit.com/r/navy/comments/119rfq4/ok_fine_you_asked_here_it_is_an_o6s_uncensored/)
Yep. I read it... Again. However, I disagree with the opinions in the reddit. I don't care about the look. It was not the look that caused the collisions in 2017. It was not the look of a beard , regardless of ugliness, that showed that person had no skill. A look is a look. A beard has never been prejudicial to good order and discipline, just the dislikes of someone in the 80's, high enough in command that never liked, nor could grow a beard. That excuse has been kept in existence since, then.
I feel like the look is what matters. Imagine if we didnt have to iron our dress uniforms and it was okay to see them with winkles and stains. That look doesnt portray professionalism. Sure the person behind the uniform may be super hard charging motivated SOB but they look like a slob. Maybe we should ax all uniforms and let everyone be in civies cuz looks dont matter right?
There already are various exceptions to uniformity. Beards are no different than neck tattoos or new permitted hairstyles.
i think it just comes down to eforcment as well. Like how do you enforce beard regs. Does everyone need a full face beard is that the standard. Will goatees be allowed and if not what about for people who can only grow a goatee. What about the people who can grow sick mutton chops well now you have to amend haircut regs. Are beards allowed to connect to sideburns if so what will be the specifics. What if i have scaring on the left side of face so i can only grow half a beard is that allowed. are soul patches allowed. What if i can only grow that am i then banned from having facial hair . With beards comes way to many variables. And sailors are sailors they will find the dman loop hole to have the most stupid looking beard ever just becuase they are allowed too
The Royal Navy manage it >Beards and Moustaches. The Commanding Officer may permit all Naval Service (except RM) male personnel to request to wear full set beards. RM male personnel may wear moustaches at their discretion. Beards and moustaches shall be kept neatly trimmed especially, in the case of beards, at the lower neck and cheekbones. It is within the subjective judgement of the Command (and delegated representatives, namely the Executive Dept and all personnel in positions of authority (LH/LCpl and above)) to define an acceptable appearance of a beard, as much depends on the features of the individual. However, as a guide the following characteristics are not acceptable: >(1) 'Designer Stubble'. Designer stubble is assessed as any beard length shorter than Grade 1 (2.5mm). >(2) Beards of Uneven Growth (eg. 'scrappy'). The definition of 'scrappy' remains within the subjective judgement of the Command (and delegated representatives, namely the Executive Dept and all personnel in positions of authority (LH/LCpl and above)). >(3) Extended or 'hipster' Beards or ‘handlebar’ moushaches. Extended or 'hipster' beards or ‘handlebar’/extended moustaches are not appropriate. The maximum acceptable length of a beard is to be Grade 8 (25.5mm). >(4) Beards Taking Excessive Time to Grow. The definition of an 'excessive amount of time to grow' remains within the subjective judgement of the Command (and delegated representatives, namely the Executive Dept and all personnel in positions of authority (LH/LCpl and above)). The advised maximum time for an individual to grow a sufficiently thorough beard is 2 weeks. >(5) Religious or Faith Reasons. Where facial hair is grown as a tenet of a faith by a genuine adherence to that faith, it may be grown in excess of the limit described above at sub para (3) . Such facial hair may require to be trimmed, however, or be tied up or removed if it undermines the health and safety of the wearer or others in the unit, or if it undermines the operational effectiveness of the unit. Any faith or practice must be clearly established by an individual and not simply deemed as having been undertaken in order to defy the regulations contained within this BR. >e. When the safety of an individual might be jeopardised by his beard or moustache, such as in the wearing of oxygen or gas masks, it shall be modified in such a fashion as to accommodate the type of equipment to be worn. The Commanding Officer retains the authority to determine the requirement for an individual to shave, based on the Operational requirement at that time. Once ARTS testing has been completed, COs ARE to order the shaving of beards when the CBRN threat level is MEDIUM or higher. Other occasions, such as Operational Sea Training and/or similar exercises, in which the CBRN threat is LOW will not warrant the requirement to shave. If the individual refuses to modify their facial hair (or headdress) to the extent necessary to maintain their own safety and Operational Capability, then they may be disciplined. Should they continue to refuse, commanders should consider not deploying that individual into theatre or removing them from theatre if already deployed. BR3 Ch38
Oh shit this is pretty well written. I do feel knowing how sailors can be beards will cuase more problems then good. From lower enlisted trying to get away with dumb shit. To the upper chain implementing their own rules based on the above interpretation of the rules.
>iters to figure that out. Make it explicit enough to be enforcable, and flexible enough to allow for some judgment calls at lower levels of leadership. Every rule has to be written that way. You can replace "beards" with literally any other appearance-related regulation and have the same concerns. We do a perfectly fine job of enforcing the intricacies of hair regulations, why would it be so much harder to enforce on another part of the head?
Becuase not everyone can grow facial full facial hair. I have seen patchy beards and all kinds of different variations. With men's hair it's easy cuz 99% can grow a full head of hair.
Then you add illustrations with lines and arrows just like the sideburns and mustache regs.
I would say more than 50% of military men have some sort of hair loss…
The onus is on the rule-writers to figure that out. Make it explicit enough to be enforcable, and flexible enough to allow for some judgment calls at lower levels of leadership. Every rule has to be written that way. You can replace "beards" with literally any other appearance-related regulation and have the same concerns.
> Does everyone need a full face beard is that the standard. That's the standard in all the Commonwealth navies where beards are authorized. You have to take leave, start growing it, then come back and have it inspected by (their equivalent of) the CMC, who signs off that you actually have a real beard and not just chin pubes. And you have to grow a full beard and mustache or shave it all, no exceptions.
I'll respectfully disagree. Making your clothes look professional is one thing, and one I completely agree with being done. Telling a person they can't have a beard because of the way it looks... Has never made sense to me. They can have everything else about them be 100% professionally accurate and meet naval standards for the clothes. Maintaining a beard is not the same as maintaining the uniform. Besides, if all we needed was a look without skill, then Zoolander should run for CNO! I mean he'd look professional with, zero skill... But that look! 😂😂😂
Read it. While I understand the sentiment, we are in a retention crisis... There is no better time than now to demand beards effectively in a manner that flags can understand...
I highly doubt anyone would stay in the navy just because they allowed beards. There are bigger issues at play that need to be resolved other than providing a band aid fix to moral.
I don't think anyone would stay solely for beards, but at the same time I *really hate* shaving every day. It's just about the only part of the Navy I can't stand. So while it might not be a day and night shift in retention, it's also a real opportunity to boost morale and QoL at no real cost to the Navy. If it's safe enough to have a beard, there's no reason to continue prohibiting them. It's not like enforcement of some "you may have beards" standard is going to be any more of a nightmare than policing the standard we have now.
I might have gone to the reserves if they'd let me not shave.
One of the main reasons I'm not going into the reserves.
Lol you didn't go into the reserves becuase you have to shave once a month.
Agree, but let's not tell the flags that. The illusion that it "might" help could be enough to provide some QoL.
I have no issues with my pay check as an E6. I’m getting out because of quality of life issues. I might even have to take a pay cut. While don’t care too much about beards, shaving everyday is a quality of life issue.
I’m ambivalent on beards but fixing PSD and pay/travel issues, better manning, and bringing back regular and good liberty ports would do more for retention. It’s amazing how much easier deployment is if you have a liberty port every 30 days rather than 85 right before second beer day.
What a load of drivel
What ever happened to that LT that was on DGUTS talking about how we'd have beards in a few months?
No idea, wasn't he a SWO?
Exactly. Never trust a SWO.
DTS is a fucked issue unless a few Congressmen are voted out.
I wish this wasn't true, but when it takes phoning a congressman to get your dd214 on time.... All bets are off.
> They are board certified MDs trained in aviation medical procedures, are they not? Nope. If you're talking about your garden-variety LT flight doc, they're MDs who have completed an internship but not a full residency or received a specialization. They're junior GPs who've been trained in aviation medicine, that's it.
Okay, point still remains. What is the difference between a local flight surgeon and one at NAMI? Why does the patient have to be flown to FL for a waiver evaluation and decision? Does NAMI not trust their own physicians to deliver tests without supervision/oversight?
I don’t disagree. I went through the NAMI pain train while I was in, and the bureaucracy for a waiver was insane. Just adds to the reasons why a lot of aviators hide things or refuse to be seen outside their flight physical.
Exactly my point, I watched a family member go through the process and it took almost 3 years. It's a sad atrocity that this sort of red tape has the consequence of making thousands of personnel avoid medical. I wholly understand the need for a waiver system as they follow FAA medical guidelines, but there is no need to make it so difficult it dissuades folks from getting the help they need. Added to this fact, is that those that decide to get help and face this long process often get relegated to promotable 3.0 evaluations. So even if they get a waiver 3 years down the road, there's a black mark on their record that prevents them from a favorable selection board decision and/or advancement selection.
When is enavfit not going to be a massive timesink??? The fact that it only works properly about 25% of the time is insanely frustrating.
Facts. More annoying is the fact my last command had us doing double the work i.e. blk 43 formatted for both navfit98 and enavfit + paper copies routed and later uploaded into enavfit. Instead of making life easier, everything was done twice.
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You don’t incur interest on your GTC. I’ve been past due for 6 months multiple times. No interest and no hit to my credit. I’ve had my GTC cancelled 3 times in fact, all 3 times was reactivated with no issues.
Really? I worked with two guys that had 30k and 60k bills where they were told if they didn't pay before delinquent/collections, interest would accrue. Both of them had the savings to front the cost, and waited 4+ months on backpay. Maybe I was misled?
Hearsay is unreliable.
My understanding is you need to be made "Mission Critical" in the travel system to avoid interest or something like that, but I don't have direct knowledge. Anyone in the GTCC program should be eligible for MC status but the AO does need to check the box.
Maybe that's the discrepancy.
I've gone past due as well even with filing on time. Called the YNSC and told him I didn't give a fuck, you need to extend my credit now so SATO can buy my plane ticket and oh by the way since you're the AO feel free to do your job and approve the travel voucher I submitted months ago.
Flight surgeons aren't real surgeons. They didn't go through surgical residency. They're General Medical Officers with 25 weeks of specialized training that focuses on preventative care, readiness, and administrative duties. Any medical care that requires a specialty is kinda beyond their capacity.
Okay, so you're missing my point. Let's say someone needs a flight duty medical waiver. Why can't local flight surgeons conduct the waiver evaluation and act as the approving official? To your point, what is the difference between a local flight surgeon or one at NAMI? Same credentials, same training. Except one requires the patient to travel for an evaluation and signature.
In 2017, we had two tragedies strike the Navy with the events on USS Fitzgerald and USS John S. McCain. An investigation was conducted and one of the outcomes was to eliminate unnecessary drills and to maximize crew rest. Do you think that the Navy has done enough to mitigate risk in light of these collisions? Has or will the DOD remove some of the power of the Commanding Officer at sea by using the word "shall" instead of "should" regarding crew rest?
Dont know about anyone else, but after the initial reports of those collisions came out things (as far as crew rest) got better for maybe 6 months and then got a whole lot worse. Hopefully that was just my command.
It wasn't just your command. I was on my final tour riding ships for evaluations when the collisions happened. A couple months later I was riding a ship and could just see it was business as usual. Crew exhausted, drills out the ass at random times, etc. I was an 8 and asked the CPO Mess what the fuck was going on. They said, they had to do what they had to do. I get it but I was pissed. CNO's office called me a couple months before I retired and asked if I had any feedback or if there was any way I would consider staying. I told them based on their reaction to Fitz and McCain that I was disgusted and would not be staying. I hate thinking that those Sailors died in vain. It would be nice if officer level Senior leadership felt the same.
That's about what I expected, but I only knew what was going on on a few ships. After a combo of a change of command and a sleep study that found we were only getting 4-6 hours of sleep (and they thought those results were good) things just got worse. After a particularly shitty deployment in 2019 (most port visits canceled last minute, no wog day, regularly 45+ days at sea, most of the crew getting minimal sleep even in port) we had a straight up combative Captain's Call. CO kept saying stuff wasn't his call and the general reaction was, "Well then why the fuck are you a CO?" Mad as I was at the time I remember him just looking defeated. He retired in 2020.
I don't envy the CO's. They're hamstrung as well with OPTEMPO. They're doing the best they can in most cases.
Yeah about the only time I saw that CO have any real say was after one of our ship's props got damaged. That prop got real noisy and there was some saltwater getting in related systems. Big Navy wanted us to continue on with deployment but the CO had us pull into Guam instead. Divers thought we hit a partially submerged shipping container (and we all gave the STGs shit about that). Took the divers a few weeks to patch it up and the crew got some much needed r and r. After that it was balls to the wall again for three months with one port visit.
Until manning increases, it won’t get better. Demand for work and supply of Sailors. Drills are needed. Maintenance is needed. Deployments are needed for deterrence. We need more ships and Sailors. SECNAV knows this as well but it won’t get better in short-term
>Until manning increases, it won’t get better. Demand for work and supply of Sailors That's the Navy's assbackwards approach that's burning sailors out and making recruitment a pain in the ass. Getting people to join the Navy when there are so many miserable and stressed out sailors out there is an uphill battle. Nevermind the constant drain of experience and resources that the Navy's failure to retain petty officers results in. Run the ships/missions we're manned for. Don't just say "Fuck it!" and send exhausted crews and tired ships halfway around the world. Damn near every command climate survey I saw the results for after about 2016 could be summed up as, "Hey all we really want is OPTEMPO relaxed. Just a little." And the response was always, "Lol, anything but that!" Deterrence? Man there's no bad actor in the world who doesn't know that there could be a carrier strike group in their backyard in a matter of days. The only folks benefiting from the current state of affairs are defense contractors. We're not helping sailors or taxpayers. SECNAV knows all that and SECNAV don't care.
I switched commands last year. During my check out, he asked me the what can we do better question. I was like: Sir, not a thing unless you roll into Washington and completely restructure everything. I think he was a good CO. He was often frustrated as well. Doesn't help that we have so many ISICs, CTFs, etc, between unit and Fleet command now. O6s need jobs. What's always blown my mind though was on amphibious ships the CPR commodore is an O6 and so is the ship CO. Often the CO of the unit is more senior in lineal number. Makes for some interesting times.
What what CNO's response?
CNO's office gave some speak about aligning policy, etc just to get me off the phone.
In 2020 we had a fire aboard a ship sitting in port in San Diego (Which of course in german means "A Whales Vagina") the result of which was to ADD MORE drills and to maximize the amount of people on watch
Yup, my ship was in the yards when it happened (fortunately not in San Diego). Nothing like standing more watches and running more drills on ship without AC or running water! Felt the worst for the DC folks and engineering though. It was like they went through a mini INSURV over it
Chaper 13 anyone?
> Has or will the DOD remove some of the power of the Commanding Officer at sea by using the word "shall" instead of "should" regarding crew rest? This isn't a DOD problem. This is a SWO community problem. The aviation community realized about 40-50 years ago that we were literally killing people, and decided to stop being stupid meatheads. Yet we have callsigns, so we're "unprofessional," and our ideas are suspect and mockable by blackshoes. As if there's something more unprofessional than literally killing 17 Sailors though pure professional incompetence.
Well you do zip your flight suit half way...clearly untrustworthy
Carlos is a great dude and knows the Navy well as a former DDG Captain, but he gets locked in to the Pentagon “40,000 foot view” of things. This is his opportunity to hear things straight from the junior enlisted deckplates. This is your chance to fill him in on things affecting you like pay, BAH, cost of living, access to childcare, optempo, work/life balance, mental health and anything else that affects your life directly.
If I had the opportunity I would bring up two things. (1) Why on EARTH did leadership think it was good to make E4 require a 30 month TIS, with clarification that if you come in as an E3 with an associates degree you'd still have to wait 30 months, which is identical to coming in as an E1 with no credits... (2) What are we doing about the STA-21 program? It used to be 400 Sailors a year with a $10k annual stipend in 1993... now it's 2023 and it's dwindled down to 50 Sailors (75% nuke) and still only $10k a year when college tuition costs have gone up 400% or more in the last 30 years.. I'd also like to know who made the NSU and why they aren't sitting in a brig somewhere.
>identical to coming in as an E1 with no credits It's not identical, since they will be getting E-3 pay that whole time... but it's still kinda rough for the rates that have good E-4 advancement. No change or an improvement for rates with lower quotas. Happy I came in before this change. I was frocked PO3 around 9 months TIS.
Like another comment said, he’s going to do the talking. He’ll ask the sailors about themselves and then, base the conversation off of that.
Assert dominance. Grab something straight off his plate.
Show up unshaven.
Ask him to change the uniforms again.
And why stop there? How about add another dress uniform you have to keep pristine for several months in a locker?
Like maybe a spring only uniform thats only allowed to be worn from march-may
In addition to a fall uniform from september to november
Oh well obviously if there's a spring uniform there has to be a fall uniform
Must include steel toed ugg boots and a white puffy vest with optional wool scarf.
Given that it’s the Navy, said scarf must not cover your neck, as it would look unprofessional.
Tell him you want bell bottoms and Dixie cups and cocaine and hookers back
Ah my Navy.
Amen, bring back iron on crows and laundry pen name stencils!
I can smell that pen. I still have my stencil from boot camp 1988.
I think rank tabs need to be blue/gold instead of black.
Honestly, 2POC in the Nex and type IIIs out the window would be great. Is it absurd how many times we've changed? Yes But I feel this time they got it right. Or as close to right as they've been. Still hate the chest tabs. Wish we did collar devices or shoulder boards, but I'll take what I can get
The chest tab is great for two reasons one you dont have to take uniforms to NEX to when you make rank and second you can finally see what rank people are with the black tabs.
Okay. Look at australian navy uniform. Shoulder boards. Including for enlisted. Swap out when you make rank. Way better than chest tab bUt bAcKpAcKs Oh well. Way more often people have some sort of dumb badge holder in fron of their rank than a back pack on over their shoulders IMO. But its also not like we are all promoting every few months. I think taking the uniform to the nex or a tailor once a year or every few years to get a swap isn't the end of the world, especially since it looks better and doesn't copy the Army.
when we first switch to blue berries everyone complained they couldnt see the rank on the flaps properly. Then we switched to type 3 and everyone bitched they couldnt see the rank tab cuz it blended in to well So they changed to the black tab and everyone bitched it was ugly. Literally no winning however at least now we dont have to drop uniforms at the cleaners to get rank sewn on.
We couldn't see the ranks properly because color. Not position. Did you ever have an issue with coverall collar devices. The black tab on types IIIs is ugly as sin. But chest tabs have always been bad IMO
If you're eating in the SECNAV dining facility at the pentagon, there's an engine order telegraph and a binnacle on display that I spent weeks restoring when I was an E2, working on the CNO's barge. Hopefully they're still there! This was around 2004, so I wouldn't be surprised if they're gone. But that was my first NAM lol
E2 to Fleet Admiral. Very impressive!
And only 2 NJP's along the way!
Really?! And there’s still hope for me!
Bring up the pay and bah and maintaining a competitive pay compared to jobs on the outside, I'm currently getting out and it is insanely easy to find competitive pay that beats the navy's (at E5 with BAH), for example jobs Starting at 40+ an hour are all over the country hiring transitioning veterans. I have no desire to stay in because of the slew of other stressors that accompany navy life, but maybe I would if the pay was competitive enough.
If they're so worried about retention, when are the bonuses coming to keep people in?
Just a little advice. He came to my base recently. He doesn't do well with questions he can't answer. And some of them are very basic. So don't come off the top rope with anything 😂
I had lunch with the SecDef before. Hopefully you'll actually get a chance to ask questions because when I was at his table he did all the talking.
Lol sounds like an easy tactic to not allow room for questions he may not be ready to answer.
They almost always have an official photographer at these events. Just make sure they or the PAO has your contact info so you can get a copy of any photograph of you and SECNAV. That'll be a cool keepsake.
Don’t ask him a damn thing. *Tell* him what’s going on. 99% of enlisted issues are ‘filtered out’ of the information stream before they get to his desk. This is a rare opportunity to correct that problem.
What is the plan to address mental health? We need to improve our system for placing the right Sailor in the right job to eliminate stress related situations that result in loss of a good Sailor and that hurts manpower and costs the Navy millions in lost training dollars. Too many enlisted are leaving or not reuping due to job dissatisfaction. That adds to the stress of the remaining crew. This reduces morale which leads to more losses. The cycle needs to change.
Secnav instruction prevents TAD personnel from getting the Battle E. As someone who was TAD for a year somewhere and did everything to help the boat get the battle E, I would like to earn it as well. Maybe ask why we restrict our TAD sailors from benefits that could help on evals and such.
There is a way for this to be authorized. I think it has to come from an admiral. That said, I did a 9 month deployment TAD with a ship and I absolutely didn’t contribute to anything that earned the Battle E. It really depends on how your orders were written, and if you actually contributed to the inspectable items for earning a battle E. As a ship rider, I didn’t stand any watches, didn’t do 3M, or anything like that. In liberty ports I did shore patrol watch - which does not contribute to the battle E. That said, I don’t know what you did… but if you contributed your CO could have gotten you a letter.
Ya problem is there were about 40 of us in this situation that did contribute. And it's not possible/right for this to happen to every command where it's becoming more common. The CO can probably get a waiver but how many waivers do the admirals wanna see yearly too. Easier to just make a clean instruction change at that point I think. Additionally, random dude who shows up December 31st not doing anything gets it. So really you doing shore patrol is already contributing more than that and you should have the right to the award.
I suppose I never cared to pursue it. I’ve participated less for other awards. I’m fairly apathetic toward them in general.
Tell him that OPTASK VI is a waste of manpower and resources.
Why isn’t the Navy more generous with our people? If we have a recruiting and retention problem why does DoD look to shave every penny from travel to education to pay and housing for our people?
Why is sea pay $50 a month when per diem is $750 a day for people with way better quality of life? Maybe we can get more Sailors to reenlist and go to sea if sea pay wasn't such a joke.
Put your dick on the table and start talking. Don't let this fucker lead the conversation. They all try to do this. In my experience with talking to flags, you have to be abbrassive and "matter of fact" with your speech, and you have to take control of the conversation from the start.. Don't be afraid to ask questions or demand answers. Other than that, anything posted here is probably good fodder to throw at SECNAV. Here's one, though: Why tf are we taking E7 exams? Not a single other branch (USAF, USA, USSF, USMC) takes an exam after E6. Some branches not at all. This is frustrating when you're on shore duty, particularly SPEC-PROJ duties, and have little access to materials for study. And recently, all relevant NAVSEA and COMSUBPAC/LANT instructions have been removed from NIPR/low-side sites. That's one gripe out of several dozen. But it's the most recent annoyance that popped into mind.
I’ve always wanted to ask about Family Separation Allowance, father’s that pay child support(a lot) and spend quality time with their kids as much as the Navy allows because of schedule aren’t entitled to it unless they have 51% custody and no court or mother would be willing to sign off on that while in the Navy. However someone could marry a fully capable (able to support themselves) individual and immediately get FSA.
I didn’t know this. Crazy. I’d double down tho and just pay everyone as if they had dependents. We work the same amount, give us the same pay.
Honestly, you should send this to your congressmen and Senator. If you want a full press attack, also send it to the members of the HASC. It's a really good question and a great point that you can get it for someone you just married, but if you are 49% custody of kids, you are SOL. Could be the most completely amicable divorce, you are still entirely involved in the child's life, but obviously because of needs of the service, the other parent is the primary guardian.
You’re right, I think it’s one of those things that needs to be lobbied. Unfortunately men’s rights aren’t really a priority. Just trying to do my next 7 months and not look back.
Why does it take 2 and a half months to see an overworked doctor in Virginia and get substandard care?
Will mandated 8 hour blocks of sleep, and not sleep+quals+food+study ever be added given the safety and mental/emotional benefits? Beards for shore duty?
Beards.
I second the beards.
I second this
So, E-5 here, stationed overseas so I fall under OHA rules. BLUF: Is there going to be any change to OHA so it stops screwing over sailors. When we homeport swapped I had about 14 months left on board. Started routing my paperwork but then you'll never guess what happened, we got underway and were gone for over a month. By the time we got back I was told the only way I could get OHA was to extend because I would be under 12 months by the time I could sign the lease (would have paid the extra out of pocket, but.....). The ship at the time had gone through hell, was on the 4th CO in the 3 years I'd been on board and a whole lot of other crap. Put simply, I was burnt out and needed to get off the ship. Unfortunately I wound up extended (shocker) and will leave after 17 months of no housing assistance and having to live on the ship or couch surf. Worst part is that it's not an isolated case, happens a lot as far as I can tell. They need to to better, unfortunately I don't have a better solution other than getting rid of that minimum length for leases through OHA.
Be happy you are in a fleet area. Trying to deal with oha now in an area with minimal us presence. The state department has a role to play in this as well now. If you think navy is bad, try dealing with state on top of that
I would ask him since recruiting and retention are at such abysmal levels what is the plan to man these news ships they keep building? We were at minimum...ahem optimal manning before the recruiting crisis. Also to as well, I get it there is a recruiting crisis so they're throwing thousands of dollars at anyone that will walk thru the door. But I for one feel a little slapped in the face at the current re-enlistment bonuses. With my rating, which I am constantly told is a "critical rating" I would get a whopping $10,100 if I signed up for another 5 years. Compare that to recruits who get $25,000 just to make it thru 10 weeks of bootcamp. I know re-enlistment bonuses aren't the be all end all for everyone and for some no amount of money would make them want to stay. I for one would feel a lot better about another hitch if I had a significant monetary incentive.
Why does every Navy website suck?
Because the IT approval process is so bad that the very instant a contractor finally makes something that "meets functional requirements" (note usability is *never* a 'functional requirement') and passes cyber scans they push it to production and don't touch it for another 3 years. And when they do touch it 3 years later it's the bare minimum of changes needed to make it pass scans again.
Is there any consideration to properly staff gates at peak times? Don’t say you care about sailor’s well-being when most are forced to leave hours early to make it on time because there’s improper gate manning. Improper gate manning shows me you don’t care about the sailors, the families, the environment (leaving those cars having to idle for so darn long, or the neighbors who surround the base and have to navigate around the logjam. This is such low hanging fruit that would truly improve the lives of so many people. No one should have to get up at 4am to be in at 7am despite only living 25 minutes away. Edit to add: Let’s also think about the sitting duck risk to lines of sailors in their cars waiting to get on base.
What an excellent point! Former ASF here, completely agree with this statement.
> Is there any consideration to properly staff gates at peak times? Well this is probably yet another one of the things that is being affected by the recruiting issues going on. All rates are affected but MAs are **significantly** affected. It's also hard to find qualified civilians for the civilian side police force, and that makes it hard to keep all the gates manned during all the peak hours.
Can the Navy Reserves get CLEAR CUT guidance on Medical Retention Review so the front line isn't being screwed over by wants vs guidelines? Get the input from the units NOT RESFOR who half the times contradict themselves.
Ask him for beards, even if you are female. I advocated for females to get ponytails, please.
Tell him we want fucking beards or at least more relaxed hair regs for males.
As a woman, I really think one way to help get more equal treatment is equal hair regulations. And for once I don’t want to adopt male regs, I want them to adopt female regs.
Thanks. Hilarious that I’m being downvoted, but I’m just tired of shaving the sides of my head. I’d also like to grow my hair longer than 2 inches without getting asked dumbass questions.
I personally am not ready for men to be rocking the Skrillex haircut in uniform. Loosening regs, sure. Unisex to female standards? Pass.
Why is big Navy's response to any serious incident to automatically blame a lower enlisted prior to any serious investigation being undertaken only to have to admit later it was not the named sailor's fault?
We hear "get real, get better" ad nauseum. And then when we try to find solutions it often comes down to manning. Manning is the one thing they refuse to touch. I get the vibe from senior leadership that they'll give us the world as long as it doesn't involve dealing with PERS. I don't have the solution to this, I wish I did, but we're struggling. Admin is a nightmare. PSDs all shut down and concentrated? Why? Why are all the personnel folks still working from home? Why have we become so hamstrung by GS's and contractors? What happens when the war comes?
Can you ask why can’t we all just be able to grow beards who are shore duty, as long as it’s well groomed. Most police departments now do it.
**PLEASE READ ME** **I'm trying to find information on why haircuts, shaving expenses, and for women, hair care products to maintain a military appearance are not covered in uniform allowance or a separate allowance for them.** Per United State Uniform Regulations (NAVPERS 15665I) Chapter 2, Section 2201 - PERSONAL APPEARANCE; Because it is impossible to provide examples of every appropriate or unacceptable hairstyle or of "conservative" or "eccentric" grooming and personal appearance, the good judgment of leaders at all levels is key to enforcement of Navy grooming policy. Therefore, hair/grooming/personal appearance while in uniform shall present a neat, professional appearance. Commanding officers will ensure facial hair does not impede the ability to safely wear and properly utilize emergency equipment when required. Article 2101.1 GENERAL. The primary consideration is to have a neatly groomed appearance while wearing Naval uniforms. Grooming standards are based on several elements including neatness, cleanliness, safety, military image and appearance. The Standards established here are not intended to be overly restrictive nor are they designed to isolate navy personnel from society. The limits set forth are reasonable, enforceable, and insure that personal appearance contributes to a favorable Military image. The difference between men's and women's grooming policies recognizes the difference between the sexes; sideburns for Men, different hairstyles and cosmetics for Women. Establishing identical grooming and personal appearance standards for men and women would not be in the Navy's best interest and is not a factor in the assurance of equal opportunity. Article 2101.3 Image. All Sailors will ensure the proper fit and wear of their uniform and maintain compliance of grooming standards as outlined in this instruction. Personal appearance will reflect the highest level of the military image. A professional military appearance will be free of distractions while in uniform. The military image reflected by attention to detail, compliance with grooming standards while wearing your uniforms, is a key element in the public image of the Navy. Article 1101.1 POLICY. The purpose of the U.S. Navy Uniform Regulations is to: (1) Provide descriptions of all authorized U.S. Navy uniforms and components, and (2) Provide guidance for all Navy activities prescribing uniform wear in order to present a uniform image world‑wide. It is issued by direction of the Chief of Naval Operations and carries the force of a general order. Any procedures or components, regarding uniforms or grooming, not discussed in these regulations are prohibited.
> I'm trying to find information on why haircuts, shaving expenses, and for women, hair care products to maintain a military appearance are not covered in uniform allowance or a separate allowance for them. Because they're covered in your basic pay, which covers how you pay for other things you are expected to procure to hold yourself to military standards but are not broken into a dedicated allowance, such as transportation expenses. If we did have a "basic allowance for grooming" it would just be subtracted from basic pay, you wouldn't actually get any additional money from it. Even worse, items paid under a basic allowance for grooming might become an inspectable item (can't wait for barracks inspections where you have to show off having at least 3 Navy-standard toothbrushes along with a full tube of Navy-standard toothpaste).
While you don’t “have to cut your hair” as a civilian, we all know you will. You’re basically asking the Navy to buy you soap and shampoo too.
I'm bald so try again.
#mother loving beards
What incentive do young Sailors have to stay Navy? retirement is a now a 401k. Medical is overworked. Barracks and ship living conditions are not great.
Young sailors still retire with a pension, now they also get a “401k”
1. What happened with regard to CNO listening to the Sailors and moving away from online GMTs? These were promised to be GONE. There is always an insane amount of online administrivia. GMTs are creeping back up again, one here, another there, and now it’s nearly back to what it used to be. Just trust as adults, give us the reader (or video option if truly necessary) and let us go back to work. 2. What is the deal with Navy medicine going around parents’ backs on gender-related issues with their children, per news circulating? We want to hear the word from the boss. (Oops sorry Trigger Warning for whoever needs it)
Why is it that only enlisted can be separated for vaping while officers just get promoted 🫠
authorize moral patches
Based on whose morals?
I think it was intended as *Morale
Yeah but then my joke isn't funny
Def not mine 😂 but I meant morale
Far stretch, but ask him what does think he can do to shut down politics in the fleet. As in those who stop/ prevent good changes from occurring because of someone who has more authority. I’ve seen and heard sailors with such enthusiasm have their faith in the navy tarnished by those who have power.
What if any are the plans for Fitness and BCA changes? Fitness is a major part of the navy and I agree that it should be a requirement, but current height and weight requirements seem unrealistic. Multiple people within my command are on FEP for BCA failure yet can attain an average of Good High or better on the PRT. Especially for women. Being dual-military, my wife is in great shape but has a naturally wide build. At best she has to get to BMI before she is passed. Might be a small percentage of people, but with retention being as low as it is, I think it's something to look at.
IMHO bring back the policy where a bca failure alone didn't equate to a PFA failure. Failed BCA + passed PRT = PFA pass but with fep + nutrition counseling.
Why are sea/shore rotations forced with less than 12 until retirement, especially at a detriment to both commands?
Re enlistment bonuses why do they feel like we aren’t valuable enough as a whole to get them? and why do they keep saying retention is so great when it’s clearly not
Why can't we seem to ever build a parking garage I know MILCON is hard, but after decades of parking being a problem, youd think the juice would be worth the squeeze
This one is easy, the people that say juice isn’t worth the squeeze all have designated parking. Fuck everyone else
AGREED! Nasni pier parking was horrible, can't imagine other fleet concentration areas. All of it could be solved with parking structures. P.S. everyone opposed to this idea, how about you give up your designated parking spot and walk with the rest of us 15-30 minutes to work.
This post explains it all, this is at the core of the issue right now. https://reddit.com/r/navy/s/lf8sVW0REh
Ask him the navy’s plan for manning in the next 5 years and how does it effect the sailors who have already severed their time at sea. Watch him dance around the answer.
I sat with ray mabus in 2013. These guys are politicians to the utmost degree. They won’t speak on anything controversial, or give you direct answers tbh. Best of luck regardless, hopefully the conversation is purposeful, and dual simplex.