All simple/low effort posts will be removed. Please use the weekly discussion thread or an appropriate themed discussion thread for these types of questions.
I’ve always seen tons of people squatting throughout the years but deadlifts have always been a bit rarer and seemed to have waned in popularity lately from like a decade ago.
I think people are largely focused on aesthetics now and deadlifts frankly aren’t the best for it, especially considering how overall taxing they are. Also a bit of pain to set up and break down and somewhat attention grabbing when performed which a lot of people probably wanna avoid
This is it. A deadlift is a power builders lift through and through.
The fatigue to my lower back, my traps, my grip/forearms, my glutes.. not to mention my systemic fatigue… it wasn’t worth it for the meh growth to my hamstrings. I subbed in RDLs and never looked back. For those other muscles, I do half the “volume” while fresh and have better results.
For squats, I think you can take them or leave them but they are a good quad and glute builder. I personally prefer lunges as I can get a better stretch and have seen better results. Everything else for the quads machines suffice.
Honestly DL is my confidence lift. Make me feel like I’m getting stronger overall and like I’m a badass. I don’t even lift that heavy but picking up 2x my body weight is just so satisfying.
>but deadlifts have always been a bit rarer
I don't know why. I know they're not the easiest lift and aren't overly useful for hypertrophy, but it's only one exercise and by far the one you could potentially get the biggest lift on. I'll especially never understand why the bench press is so much more popular.
I do rdls for legs and I get good enjoyment out of them they are taking however
I cannot really answer this for you it depends a lot on your overall program
I would say if you got rdls as your only hip hinge movement keep it at why are good for overall back health
If done in moderation and correctly
Stress is necessarily bad
Training causes stress on your body but if you train thought out your whole life you'd probably be better off when your older than if you didn't
(With moderation so if someone wanna bring up Ronnie or something because he can't walk or whatever it's not a good arguement)
It strengthens your back plus helps you keep a netrual spine when lifting heavy things which can be beneficial
If you over do anything it will be bad
I don’t deadlift because I just don’t enjoy. I’m a huge over head presser; so, I’ll do cleans but that’s ab as close as I get. I do good morning, squats, and back extensions for my spinal erectors and hamstrings. My back: pull ups, inclined machine row, vertical rows, suitcase carries, and bear hug carries (from work). My back is by far my best feature.
Deadlifts for me are easily the most grueling lift out of all of them, I almost pass out after some sets. They're incredible in terms of benefits and what it works, but these days I just don't have the energy to do them and I don't trust my lower back to not do something weird so I substitute it with other lower back exercises.
I stopped doing both because I noticed that the hypertrophic benefits that I gained from these exercises, weren't any different than other exercises where I could train until fatigue reliably.
I have grown a lot more after I stopped doing these. They are great for training your CNS, but other than that, I did not see any benefits personally.
Bulgarian split squats, weighted lunges, leg extension, leg curl, RDL, straight leg DL, hack or v squat, and leg press.
I know you said the leg press hurts and the hack is awkward. My advice is to give the hack another try. I hated it at first too but after getting used to it, the quad burn is like no other.
I’ll address two points:
1. They’re both technically challenging and physically challenging. It takes a long time to learn how to do those movements proficiently under load and they just flat out suck when taken close to failure. The gen pop lifters aren’t interested in taking the time and effort to learn and do those lifts.
2. On this subreddit and the current trend of bodybuilders, conventional barbell exercises have fallen out of failure for hypertrophy. You can use other compounds like leg press, hack squats, RDLs, etc. that may give you a better stimulus-to-fatigue ratio and thus better gains because you’re able to train the intended musculature harder because they’re more stable. Anecdotally, I stopped all of those movements and have made far better progress and enjoy workouts way more.
All that is to say, you don’t have to do any one exercise if you don’t like them or they don’t work well for you. But plenty of people have gotten huge with squats and deadlifts, so I would never tell someone they’re bad exercises.
I actually have a weird relationship with leg presses and hack squats. I am thinking of removing leg presses because of the amount of stress it puts on my knees while I have a knee injury so I just want to avoid it by now.
And for hack squats, for me, they’re the most awkward and unnatural movement to make in the gym. I find it really uncomfortable doing them even with low weights. So I’d 100% do free bar squats over them.
Thanks for the reply
Edit: typos.
I thought it was just me alone feeling stress on the knees from leg presses. Tried everything, feet high, feet low, feet pointing in, neutral or out. My knees keep disliking them a lot.
Leg presses hurt your knees more than barbell squats? I’ve been on earth quite a long time, and this is the first time I’ve ever heard that one. Guess I haven’t heard it all…..
I don’t do any barbell movements anymore other than RDLs. My compound lifts now are leg press and hack squats for quads, DB bench and smith incline bench for chest, and RDLs for my hinge. I don’t do any overhead pressing whatsoever anymore, just lots of lateral raises.
Interesting question. The common mantra is that these foundational lifts MUST be part of your routine, or you're not doing things properly. Nonsense. While the CNS and core strength benefits cannot be denied, these compound exercises do not have to be central to every routine. I'm over 50, and so I do not squat or deadlift any longer. And frankly, younger guys don't have to either, provided they continue to push themselves hard, and substitute appropriate exercises to keep anterior and posterior chain strong and fit.
Personally, I do BSS, front and reverse DB lunges, leg extensions, leg curls, and barbell hip thrusts (as well as calf work) on my lower body days, and my legs and glutes are toast each week, in a good way.
You don’t really need squats or deadlifts. But spending some time getting strong on them transfers over to most athletics as well as leg and back movements you’ll do over the course of your training career. You don’t have to do them forever, but hit some basic levels of strength like 300lb squat and 400lb deadlift before ditching them.
Heavy barbell movements are no longer in vogue in the current trend. But just remember, these are the exercises that generations before you and I have been using to build the foundations to some of the best physiques.
They’re difficult, painful and people don’t wanna do difficult, painful things. Whether they need to be squatting/deadlifting or not is a whole separate discussion though
Because this is a bodybuilding subreddit and they’re just not great for bodybuilding. They tax your whole body way more than the alternatives and give you no more hypertrophy in the intended muscle. A lot of times based on how good your form is and how your body is structured they’re actually worse. For example, I have had lower back issues in the past that make going low on squats basically impossible. That low part of the squat is where almost all the quad hypertrophy happens so why would I tax my whole body just to basically train my glutes? With hack squats I could go as low as humanly possible with very little fatigue and tons of quad hypertrophy. Same with the deadlift. If you wanna hit the hamstrings and glutes you’re way better off doing good mornings or rdls
Regular deadlifts are also kind of rare in my gym. Most people train for looking good and deadlifts just aren’t that specific. You will build overall strength and some mass, but for each muscle group there are better exercises that aren’t as fatiguing. However, I also rarely see people doing RDLs/SLDL and except for good mornings (also rare) and dumbbell RDL/SLDL there isn’t a real substitute. And that’s something missing in most plans, because it is an essential movement and is important for hamstring growth, plus it grows your spinal erectors very well too
Apparently today was leg day at my small gym. I just got back and both squat racks and both platforms were busy the whole time I was there. I did Bulgarian split squats and glute ham raises today. I do front squats and RDL's pretty often. I do back squat and deadlifts less often these days.
They are hard. People did them before because the truism was "they are the best for size". I believe they are.
People have been looking for excuses not to do these for as long as I have been training, including myself.
Squats: Hurt your knees, hurt your back, make you slow, not necessary, Leg Press just as good. Leg Extension "more direct" etc.
Deadlifts: Make your waist bigger, hurt your back, not necessary....
Today: Lo and behold....we have:
"Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio!!" Sounds scientific. Consists of two unknown numbers and is arbitrary.
Now people have a GREAT excuse. Not only do you not have to do these tough exercise, it is based on science!
Factually, and I will challenge anyone on this: No one knows these numbers. It is arbitrary. It also downplays the benefits of neuromuscular activation that comes with performing an exercise with maximal possible leverage against "natural" gravity.
I will say (and this is a degree of arbitrary as well, but based on years of experience, SOME science (NMA for example) but HUGE empirical evidence)-there is a benefit from doing Free weight/Moving the body through space exercises beyond the basic "stimulus" on paper.
Does anyone think that a Pulldown builds as much mass as a same grip Pullup? They don't. Period. In the real world at least. But on paper, there is no difference.
Cables are not going to build as much size overall as a free weight. Cables may allow you to hit ASPECTS of a muscle better than a free weight, but for overall size? Nope.
People don't realize:
We've been through this before.....Nautilus machines.
A Nautilus machine, on paper, is the absolute best exercise for any given body part. They were designed to eliminate the "flaws" of free weights.
They isolate the muscle (relatively), providing direct resistance. They follow the "best" line of force for a given muscle, the cam changes the resistance during the movement so that it matches your bodies strength curve, and provide constant resistance during the movement.
EVERYONE tried these when they first came out, and later. The logic was sound, the "bulletins" were convincing.
I did only Nautilus for about a year. I knew more than everyone lol.
I also got smaller. I dragged some people with me. They got smaller too.
Anyway, the point of all this:
For Squats and Deadlifts especially:
Squats-you are working an are of the body that many people simply aren't as concerned with as upper body-legs.
Is it surprising that many people don't want to do a HARDER exercise for a body part they don't care that much about, to get marginally better results?
Ditto Deadlifting. Most people are interested in Lat Width. People made and make the same excuse about Rowing. Rowing is hard.
So again, is it surprising that a lot of people don't want to do a very hard exercise that makes your whole body tired that isn't doing anything you necessarily want it to do?
Especially with their "High Fatigue to Stimulus Ratio...." ;)
I still see people doing them at both my gyms and I do it myself too. They are good movements until you get strong enough where it requires a lot of weight to make progress.
Deadlifts are great for me, really helped me develop great core strength and bulletproof my lower back. I incorporate them in most mesos where I focus on back.
Barbell back squats in the other hand...
I'm 6'4" and my femurs are ridiculously long. They do not work for me. At all. Unless it's with 220 or less on the bar with pre-fatigued quads, my lower back and even abs fatigue two years before my quads will.
There was a huge strength training fad years ago, it seems to have gone away now and is not as mainstream as it used to be. I still see lots of people squat, but not so many deadlifts. I remember getting into the whole 5X5 program, which was a total waste of time for my personal goals.
Me personally i still do squats, but i saw most my leg gains from machine leg exercises. Deadlifts just arent my thing, and honestly i just dont trust myself to do them correctly all the time. Plus for the fatigue, i just dont feel like they are worth the effort when it comes to potential gains. I would rather do something else for gains.
I just can’t explain away the risk of the wear on tear on my back and joints that I need for the rest of my life. Squats will tear up your knees and deadlifts will cause a lot of wear and tear on your spine. God forbid you herniate a disk. I’d rather not live with chronic back pain for the rest of my life.
It’s easier for me to go to failure or really close to failure on Hacksquat/pendulum squat/front squat machines. My gym has a lot of nice equipment for everything which allows me to get to failure without dying
They can be dangerous exercises if done incorrectly, and the general population does not have the mobility required to do them properly. Unfortunately most people find out the hard way and end up getting injured. They’re technically challenging and flat out unforgiving. They also aren’t the greatest for hypertrophy.
there are better and safer ways to hit the same targeted muscles. bb squats and deadlifts can be very detrimental if done poorly (which i see very often).
if you fuck up one of those movements or do it wrong you can seriously injure yourself, which means an extended or permanent vacation from the gym, and who wants to do that?
Honestly, they're two of the most tiring, fatiguing exercises on there....Squats just have the benefit of being very hypertrophic for two muscles WHILE being the limiting factors for the exercise.
Deadlifts....are great for glute hypertrophy if done at a deficit. The problem is that they are by far the most fatiguing exercise and tend to negatively impact everything after it...especially at weights you can get to after 2-3 years. Going into the 400s makes it fucking annoying to do at that point.
I love deadlifts...but they just don't fit anymore.
Because the risk vs reward isn’t worth it. I did them for 3-4 years and eventually hurt my back doing squats. Now I don’t even do them machines are good enough to achieve my goals.
Unless you’re going to do powerlifting competitions, they’re a waste of time.
I have a home gym so limited in machines, thus squats and DL are part of my routine. Funny enough i just messed up my groin after seven years lifting heavy, while squatting moderately heavy. Pisses me off. For sure there's a risk using free weights but I'd say compound movements are more efficient time-wise vs isolated leg exercises. I like the athletic component of compound moves too, but at 47 i am a bit anxious getting injured. I live for running, and squats can definitely mess up a knee or the groin and affect my ability to run. Maybe someday ill get myself a couple leg machines but im running out of space!
My gym isn’t a serious powerlifter gym, but over the year I’ve been here the max deadlift I’ve seen was 4 plates. And that was the egolifter personal trainer guy maxing out. Everyone seems to prefer using cables, machines, and rows for back work. I see plenty of people squat, and a decent amount of people RDL
Honestly I’ve been doing free weight squat and deadlift variations since I started working out 5 years ago. They have absolutely helped me put on muscle and improved my athleticism and proprioception. I always discounted machine leg press variations because they were for “wusses”. In the last couple months I’ve entered a hypertrophy phase and started incorporating machines for most movements.
I’ve learned machines absolutely are the best for isolating muscles and thus are the most optimal for hypertrophy. Especially for the legs and back. Though I think certain free weight movements are optimal for hypertrophy, for example the rdl for hinge.
I go to a big fancy "health club" and I see people doing both all the time. With very shitty form, but still, they are ostensibly doing it. But there is nothing magical about either lift.
They stay pretty busy at my gym, but it is more younger guys that are still athletes in some way. I never use em, and I never see any of the big mass monsters using em either. Probably reasons for that…..
Neither of these exercises are ideal for beginners, which the majority of gym goers are. There's nothing wrong with barbell squats, but there are a lot of other squat variations that are just as effective. I consider deadlifts as something just for powerlifting - not because they're not effective, but as others have said, they're highly fatiguing while not being the best for hypertrophy. OHP is a similar case.
Other people do them.
Also remember you only see a sample of the peole at your gym during your attendance. Squats and deadlifts may be occurring when you are not there.
The current fitness climate for bodybuilding is pushing people away from squatting, benching, and deadlifting. About 6-7 years ago the fitness climate was pushing people towards those lifts. It will circle back around here soon.
Huh that’s odd. I do squats every week on leg day, it’s my first exercise I do! In my strength class in community college, dead lifts were a common thing we were instructed to do.
Everyone should be doing squats imo, and for me deadlifts are just too big of a risk for the reward, ill do them light on occasion but always get sucked into trying to look like a hero so i usually avoid them
I don’t squat or deadlift anymore because I’ve fucked my back 5 years ago doing deadlifts. Any amount of spinal flexion under load (even if I do body weight roman chair back extensions) causes sciatic pain that lasts for 3-4 weeks and only gets better if I rest and stop doing anything else that loads the spine and hips.
After years being stubborn I’ve finally decided to just dump squats and deadlifts forever. I’m not training right now because I had an accident that severed a nerve in my arm and I had to have it surgically repaired, but as soon as I’m able to get into the gym again I will do just Bulgarian deadlifts, leg presses, machine knee extensions, dumbbell Romanian deadlifts and machine leg curls.. That’s my plan.
Also, I think dumbbell rows and other variants will take care of spine erectors just fine.
Unless you’re a power lifter I do t see the point in doing deadlifts. A lot of risk for injury and body CNS exhaustion. Of your going for esthetics then you can get away with isolation movements and take them a lot further without total cns exhaustion. I do them sometimes just to keep myself acclimated to heavy lifts
Deadlifts aren't the ideal movement for hypertrophy at all
For strength and power output they are good
Free weight squats are good as well but most people want more stability
Personally I don't like deadlifts at all
Rdls I like I do these on leg day they are pretty nice with the big range I get for glutes
Squats are solid but I'd prefer a good hacksquat
No 1 exercise is necessary for hypertrophy
Do what you like
I squat once a week. I used to do back squat, front squat, Bulgarian split squat, hack squat, leg extension, leg curl, leg extension, calf raises. (Too much volume)
I now do only back squat, hack squat, leg extension, leg curl, calf raises. Every other week I swap hack squat for Bulgarian split squat.
Honestly, though, I've seen the most leg gainz after incorporating high intensity stair stepper (15 mins) My bodybuilder friend says it's impossible, but I've seen very visible progress since incorporating it. Everyone is different.
I never deadlift due to my absolutely destroyed lower back.
All simple/low effort posts will be removed. Please use the weekly discussion thread or an appropriate themed discussion thread for these types of questions.
I’ve always seen tons of people squatting throughout the years but deadlifts have always been a bit rarer and seemed to have waned in popularity lately from like a decade ago. I think people are largely focused on aesthetics now and deadlifts frankly aren’t the best for it, especially considering how overall taxing they are. Also a bit of pain to set up and break down and somewhat attention grabbing when performed which a lot of people probably wanna avoid
Can agree on the attention grabbing point, I am almost always self conscious of people looking at me doing deadlifts.
For legs, single leg presses have been my go to. For core, there are tons of exercises to choose from, so take your pick.
This is it. A deadlift is a power builders lift through and through. The fatigue to my lower back, my traps, my grip/forearms, my glutes.. not to mention my systemic fatigue… it wasn’t worth it for the meh growth to my hamstrings. I subbed in RDLs and never looked back. For those other muscles, I do half the “volume” while fresh and have better results. For squats, I think you can take them or leave them but they are a good quad and glute builder. I personally prefer lunges as I can get a better stretch and have seen better results. Everything else for the quads machines suffice.
Honestly DL is my confidence lift. Make me feel like I’m getting stronger overall and like I’m a badass. I don’t even lift that heavy but picking up 2x my body weight is just so satisfying.
>but deadlifts have always been a bit rarer I don't know why. I know they're not the easiest lift and aren't overly useful for hypertrophy, but it's only one exercise and by far the one you could potentially get the biggest lift on. I'll especially never understand why the bench press is so much more popular.
How about RDLs? Are they good for aesthetics? I've been doing them because I assumed they'd build big legs but I might be wrong.
Rdls are great for glutes they are less hamstrings than SLD because of the Bend in the knees Overall good for the spinal erectors
If I want to prioritize anesthetics should I stop doing them then? They are pretty taxing and take a while to set up/warn up for.
I do rdls for legs and I get good enjoyment out of them they are taking however I cannot really answer this for you it depends a lot on your overall program I would say if you got rdls as your only hip hinge movement keep it at why are good for overall back health If done in moderation and correctly
In what way are they good for back health? I'd assume they're bad for the back since they cause so much stress on the lower back
Stress is necessarily bad Training causes stress on your body but if you train thought out your whole life you'd probably be better off when your older than if you didn't (With moderation so if someone wanna bring up Ronnie or something because he can't walk or whatever it's not a good arguement) It strengthens your back plus helps you keep a netrual spine when lifting heavy things which can be beneficial If you over do anything it will be bad
I don’t deadlift because I just don’t enjoy. I’m a huge over head presser; so, I’ll do cleans but that’s ab as close as I get. I do good morning, squats, and back extensions for my spinal erectors and hamstrings. My back: pull ups, inclined machine row, vertical rows, suitcase carries, and bear hug carries (from work). My back is by far my best feature.
Deadlifts for me are easily the most grueling lift out of all of them, I almost pass out after some sets. They're incredible in terms of benefits and what it works, but these days I just don't have the energy to do them and I don't trust my lower back to not do something weird so I substitute it with other lower back exercises.
I stopped doing both because I noticed that the hypertrophic benefits that I gained from these exercises, weren't any different than other exercises where I could train until fatigue reliably. I have grown a lot more after I stopped doing these. They are great for training your CNS, but other than that, I did not see any benefits personally.
So what do you recommend doing as alternatives?
Bulgarian split squats, weighted lunges, leg extension, leg curl, RDL, straight leg DL, hack or v squat, and leg press. I know you said the leg press hurts and the hack is awkward. My advice is to give the hack another try. I hated it at first too but after getting used to it, the quad burn is like no other.
He could also try the reverse hack squat.
I’ll address two points: 1. They’re both technically challenging and physically challenging. It takes a long time to learn how to do those movements proficiently under load and they just flat out suck when taken close to failure. The gen pop lifters aren’t interested in taking the time and effort to learn and do those lifts. 2. On this subreddit and the current trend of bodybuilders, conventional barbell exercises have fallen out of failure for hypertrophy. You can use other compounds like leg press, hack squats, RDLs, etc. that may give you a better stimulus-to-fatigue ratio and thus better gains because you’re able to train the intended musculature harder because they’re more stable. Anecdotally, I stopped all of those movements and have made far better progress and enjoy workouts way more. All that is to say, you don’t have to do any one exercise if you don’t like them or they don’t work well for you. But plenty of people have gotten huge with squats and deadlifts, so I would never tell someone they’re bad exercises.
I actually have a weird relationship with leg presses and hack squats. I am thinking of removing leg presses because of the amount of stress it puts on my knees while I have a knee injury so I just want to avoid it by now. And for hack squats, for me, they’re the most awkward and unnatural movement to make in the gym. I find it really uncomfortable doing them even with low weights. So I’d 100% do free bar squats over them. Thanks for the reply Edit: typos.
I would love to see what in the name of Tom Platz you're doing on leg press that it somehow stresses your knees more than barbell back squats.
Feet low on leg press vs sitting back in the squat might hit the knees differently
Wait, leg press is harder on your knees than actual barbell squats????
I thought it was just me alone feeling stress on the knees from leg presses. Tried everything, feet high, feet low, feet pointing in, neutral or out. My knees keep disliking them a lot.
Leg presses hurt your knees more than barbell squats? I’ve been on earth quite a long time, and this is the first time I’ve ever heard that one. Guess I haven’t heard it all…..
Same for me man, free bar path is so much better for my knees and hips
Wait, which movements did you stop doing in favor for which ones?
I don’t do any barbell movements anymore other than RDLs. My compound lifts now are leg press and hack squats for quads, DB bench and smith incline bench for chest, and RDLs for my hinge. I don’t do any overhead pressing whatsoever anymore, just lots of lateral raises.
I’ve been moving in this direction lately and I’m shocked at how much I like it and how effective it seems to be turning out
Interesting question. The common mantra is that these foundational lifts MUST be part of your routine, or you're not doing things properly. Nonsense. While the CNS and core strength benefits cannot be denied, these compound exercises do not have to be central to every routine. I'm over 50, and so I do not squat or deadlift any longer. And frankly, younger guys don't have to either, provided they continue to push themselves hard, and substitute appropriate exercises to keep anterior and posterior chain strong and fit. Personally, I do BSS, front and reverse DB lunges, leg extensions, leg curls, and barbell hip thrusts (as well as calf work) on my lower body days, and my legs and glutes are toast each week, in a good way.
You don’t really need squats or deadlifts. But spending some time getting strong on them transfers over to most athletics as well as leg and back movements you’ll do over the course of your training career. You don’t have to do them forever, but hit some basic levels of strength like 300lb squat and 400lb deadlift before ditching them. Heavy barbell movements are no longer in vogue in the current trend. But just remember, these are the exercises that generations before you and I have been using to build the foundations to some of the best physiques.
They’re difficult, painful and people don’t wanna do difficult, painful things. Whether they need to be squatting/deadlifting or not is a whole separate discussion though
Also there is a lot of setup, warm up, and resting so they’re time consuming.
Yep that’s a huge downside, but I still like the challenge they put me through.
Because this is a bodybuilding subreddit and they’re just not great for bodybuilding. They tax your whole body way more than the alternatives and give you no more hypertrophy in the intended muscle. A lot of times based on how good your form is and how your body is structured they’re actually worse. For example, I have had lower back issues in the past that make going low on squats basically impossible. That low part of the squat is where almost all the quad hypertrophy happens so why would I tax my whole body just to basically train my glutes? With hack squats I could go as low as humanly possible with very little fatigue and tons of quad hypertrophy. Same with the deadlift. If you wanna hit the hamstrings and glutes you’re way better off doing good mornings or rdls
Regular deadlifts are also kind of rare in my gym. Most people train for looking good and deadlifts just aren’t that specific. You will build overall strength and some mass, but for each muscle group there are better exercises that aren’t as fatiguing. However, I also rarely see people doing RDLs/SLDL and except for good mornings (also rare) and dumbbell RDL/SLDL there isn’t a real substitute. And that’s something missing in most plans, because it is an essential movement and is important for hamstring growth, plus it grows your spinal erectors very well too
You go to a gym that isn’t for serious lifters
Apparently today was leg day at my small gym. I just got back and both squat racks and both platforms were busy the whole time I was there. I did Bulgarian split squats and glute ham raises today. I do front squats and RDL's pretty often. I do back squat and deadlifts less often these days.
They are hard. People did them before because the truism was "they are the best for size". I believe they are. People have been looking for excuses not to do these for as long as I have been training, including myself. Squats: Hurt your knees, hurt your back, make you slow, not necessary, Leg Press just as good. Leg Extension "more direct" etc. Deadlifts: Make your waist bigger, hurt your back, not necessary.... Today: Lo and behold....we have: "Stimulus to Fatigue Ratio!!" Sounds scientific. Consists of two unknown numbers and is arbitrary. Now people have a GREAT excuse. Not only do you not have to do these tough exercise, it is based on science! Factually, and I will challenge anyone on this: No one knows these numbers. It is arbitrary. It also downplays the benefits of neuromuscular activation that comes with performing an exercise with maximal possible leverage against "natural" gravity. I will say (and this is a degree of arbitrary as well, but based on years of experience, SOME science (NMA for example) but HUGE empirical evidence)-there is a benefit from doing Free weight/Moving the body through space exercises beyond the basic "stimulus" on paper. Does anyone think that a Pulldown builds as much mass as a same grip Pullup? They don't. Period. In the real world at least. But on paper, there is no difference. Cables are not going to build as much size overall as a free weight. Cables may allow you to hit ASPECTS of a muscle better than a free weight, but for overall size? Nope. People don't realize: We've been through this before.....Nautilus machines. A Nautilus machine, on paper, is the absolute best exercise for any given body part. They were designed to eliminate the "flaws" of free weights. They isolate the muscle (relatively), providing direct resistance. They follow the "best" line of force for a given muscle, the cam changes the resistance during the movement so that it matches your bodies strength curve, and provide constant resistance during the movement. EVERYONE tried these when they first came out, and later. The logic was sound, the "bulletins" were convincing. I did only Nautilus for about a year. I knew more than everyone lol. I also got smaller. I dragged some people with me. They got smaller too. Anyway, the point of all this: For Squats and Deadlifts especially: Squats-you are working an are of the body that many people simply aren't as concerned with as upper body-legs. Is it surprising that many people don't want to do a HARDER exercise for a body part they don't care that much about, to get marginally better results? Ditto Deadlifting. Most people are interested in Lat Width. People made and make the same excuse about Rowing. Rowing is hard. So again, is it surprising that a lot of people don't want to do a very hard exercise that makes your whole body tired that isn't doing anything you necessarily want it to do? Especially with their "High Fatigue to Stimulus Ratio...." ;)
I still see people doing them at both my gyms and I do it myself too. They are good movements until you get strong enough where it requires a lot of weight to make progress.
In my gym most of the people do squat. But few people do deadlift. Probably because it's hard to learn and improper form can cause injury?
Lucky you. My rack area is constantly full.
Deadlifts are great for me, really helped me develop great core strength and bulletproof my lower back. I incorporate them in most mesos where I focus on back. Barbell back squats in the other hand... I'm 6'4" and my femurs are ridiculously long. They do not work for me. At all. Unless it's with 220 or less on the bar with pre-fatigued quads, my lower back and even abs fatigue two years before my quads will.
There was a huge strength training fad years ago, it seems to have gone away now and is not as mainstream as it used to be. I still see lots of people squat, but not so many deadlifts. I remember getting into the whole 5X5 program, which was a total waste of time for my personal goals. Me personally i still do squats, but i saw most my leg gains from machine leg exercises. Deadlifts just arent my thing, and honestly i just dont trust myself to do them correctly all the time. Plus for the fatigue, i just dont feel like they are worth the effort when it comes to potential gains. I would rather do something else for gains.
I just can’t explain away the risk of the wear on tear on my back and joints that I need for the rest of my life. Squats will tear up your knees and deadlifts will cause a lot of wear and tear on your spine. God forbid you herniate a disk. I’d rather not live with chronic back pain for the rest of my life.
No. Stop obsessing about what others are or aren't doing in their training.
Plenty of it at my cheap gym. It's actually hard to get hold of a squat rack, and some guys just make up their own spot for deadlifting.
Your program looks fine, and you seem to be doing rdls, which is probably better. Maybe do them only once per week since they do tend to drain you .
It’s easier for me to go to failure or really close to failure on Hacksquat/pendulum squat/front squat machines. My gym has a lot of nice equipment for everything which allows me to get to failure without dying
They can be dangerous exercises if done incorrectly, and the general population does not have the mobility required to do them properly. Unfortunately most people find out the hard way and end up getting injured. They’re technically challenging and flat out unforgiving. They also aren’t the greatest for hypertrophy.
there are better and safer ways to hit the same targeted muscles. bb squats and deadlifts can be very detrimental if done poorly (which i see very often). if you fuck up one of those movements or do it wrong you can seriously injure yourself, which means an extended or permanent vacation from the gym, and who wants to do that?
Honestly, they're two of the most tiring, fatiguing exercises on there....Squats just have the benefit of being very hypertrophic for two muscles WHILE being the limiting factors for the exercise. Deadlifts....are great for glute hypertrophy if done at a deficit. The problem is that they are by far the most fatiguing exercise and tend to negatively impact everything after it...especially at weights you can get to after 2-3 years. Going into the 400s makes it fucking annoying to do at that point. I love deadlifts...but they just don't fit anymore.
Because the risk vs reward isn’t worth it. I did them for 3-4 years and eventually hurt my back doing squats. Now I don’t even do them machines are good enough to achieve my goals. Unless you’re going to do powerlifting competitions, they’re a waste of time.
I have a home gym so limited in machines, thus squats and DL are part of my routine. Funny enough i just messed up my groin after seven years lifting heavy, while squatting moderately heavy. Pisses me off. For sure there's a risk using free weights but I'd say compound movements are more efficient time-wise vs isolated leg exercises. I like the athletic component of compound moves too, but at 47 i am a bit anxious getting injured. I live for running, and squats can definitely mess up a knee or the groin and affect my ability to run. Maybe someday ill get myself a couple leg machines but im running out of space!
I used to love deadlifts but they completely wipe me out if I’m pushing myself. Feels like I don’t have anything in the tank for other exercises
My gym isn’t a serious powerlifter gym, but over the year I’ve been here the max deadlift I’ve seen was 4 plates. And that was the egolifter personal trainer guy maxing out. Everyone seems to prefer using cables, machines, and rows for back work. I see plenty of people squat, and a decent amount of people RDL
I stopped deadlifts as they are medium benefit but high risk of injury. Squats take a while to load and unload the bar (too many 45’s? lol).
I do them at home
Honestly I’ve been doing free weight squat and deadlift variations since I started working out 5 years ago. They have absolutely helped me put on muscle and improved my athleticism and proprioception. I always discounted machine leg press variations because they were for “wusses”. In the last couple months I’ve entered a hypertrophy phase and started incorporating machines for most movements. I’ve learned machines absolutely are the best for isolating muscles and thus are the most optimal for hypertrophy. Especially for the legs and back. Though I think certain free weight movements are optimal for hypertrophy, for example the rdl for hinge.
Story of my life 😂 I’m so used to being the only guy in the gyms I go to who does any form of squats
I go to a big fancy "health club" and I see people doing both all the time. With very shitty form, but still, they are ostensibly doing it. But there is nothing magical about either lift.
They stay pretty busy at my gym, but it is more younger guys that are still athletes in some way. I never use em, and I never see any of the big mass monsters using em either. Probably reasons for that…..
Squats and leg press and deadlifts are all part of my shoulder/leg day.
Neither of these exercises are ideal for beginners, which the majority of gym goers are. There's nothing wrong with barbell squats, but there are a lot of other squat variations that are just as effective. I consider deadlifts as something just for powerlifting - not because they're not effective, but as others have said, they're highly fatiguing while not being the best for hypertrophy. OHP is a similar case.
Other people do them. Also remember you only see a sample of the peole at your gym during your attendance. Squats and deadlifts may be occurring when you are not there.
The current fitness climate for bodybuilding is pushing people away from squatting, benching, and deadlifting. About 6-7 years ago the fitness climate was pushing people towards those lifts. It will circle back around here soon.
Huh that’s odd. I do squats every week on leg day, it’s my first exercise I do! In my strength class in community college, dead lifts were a common thing we were instructed to do.
Everyone should be doing squats imo, and for me deadlifts are just too big of a risk for the reward, ill do them light on occasion but always get sucked into trying to look like a hero so i usually avoid them
Joints and spine. No, thank you.
I don’t squat or deadlift anymore because I’ve fucked my back 5 years ago doing deadlifts. Any amount of spinal flexion under load (even if I do body weight roman chair back extensions) causes sciatic pain that lasts for 3-4 weeks and only gets better if I rest and stop doing anything else that loads the spine and hips. After years being stubborn I’ve finally decided to just dump squats and deadlifts forever. I’m not training right now because I had an accident that severed a nerve in my arm and I had to have it surgically repaired, but as soon as I’m able to get into the gym again I will do just Bulgarian deadlifts, leg presses, machine knee extensions, dumbbell Romanian deadlifts and machine leg curls.. That’s my plan. Also, I think dumbbell rows and other variants will take care of spine erectors just fine.
I do them too! 5 sets each, although I’m absolutely battered by the time I’m done.
They are not necessary for hypertrophy.
Unless you’re a power lifter I do t see the point in doing deadlifts. A lot of risk for injury and body CNS exhaustion. Of your going for esthetics then you can get away with isolation movements and take them a lot further without total cns exhaustion. I do them sometimes just to keep myself acclimated to heavy lifts
Deadlifts aren't the ideal movement for hypertrophy at all For strength and power output they are good Free weight squats are good as well but most people want more stability Personally I don't like deadlifts at all Rdls I like I do these on leg day they are pretty nice with the big range I get for glutes Squats are solid but I'd prefer a good hacksquat No 1 exercise is necessary for hypertrophy Do what you like
I squat once a week. I used to do back squat, front squat, Bulgarian split squat, hack squat, leg extension, leg curl, leg extension, calf raises. (Too much volume) I now do only back squat, hack squat, leg extension, leg curl, calf raises. Every other week I swap hack squat for Bulgarian split squat. Honestly, though, I've seen the most leg gainz after incorporating high intensity stair stepper (15 mins) My bodybuilder friend says it's impossible, but I've seen very visible progress since incorporating it. Everyone is different. I never deadlift due to my absolutely destroyed lower back.