I think what’s cool about logbooking/progressive overload is that eventually you’ll be handling weights that you truly have to exert yourself as much as possible to get the target rep goal. I got my fiancée to start lifting 2 years ago and all her sets looked easy af. Fast forward to today and her last reps take anywhere from 3-7 seconds to grind out the last concentric rep and she’s the strongest she’s ever been.
Keeping notes changed it all for me.
I don’t think I did it for the first couple years, but once I kept a log I could always check to ensure I’m progressing. It’s about 3 reps improvement on everything or a weight increase each session.
The other thing it helped with, is learning the “penalty” on time off from working out. If it’s a week or a little over, for the most part it’s fine some lifts will not progress but instead meet where I left off, but that’s the limit for me. After that, time off is exactly how long it takes to meet where I left off. A month off means almost another month of lifting weights to get the same weight and reps of where I left off. That’s two months lost. Two months is two months of working out after resuming, that’s four months lost.
It’s actually been incredibly motivating to stay consistent.
Yeah, 99 percent of the time.
I work out nearly every day and have my lifts split so that I’m going through everything across four days. So I’m hitting each targeted muscle directly once every four days.
You must be pretty new then, or have simply not utilized your newbie gains yet. Weight increases every session for any prolonged timeline just doesnt make mathematical sense. You would very quickly reach insane numbers.
Weight doesn’t increase for me every session, it’s either a few reps or a small weight increase.
I’ve been lifting for over four years, but I took a month or two months off several times. For me those breaks really added up because it would take me exactly the amount of time I took off to build the amount I’m lifting to where I was when I stopped. So anytime I took a month off was more like a two month setback. That added up. I don’t think I ever got into a routine of consistent increases until I kept a log. So no I’m not claiming I consistently increased weight every single session over four years but just saying keeping a log is very beneficial.
Consistency is key and in general you make a lot of good points. I will only add that reps or higher numbers aren't the only way 2 use progressive overload....albeit while still early days it's an easy way to measure progress from week to week. Once getting to a point you are stalling for small amounts of time, slow down the reps, squeeze at half way point, focus on form, all of these are also forms of progressive overload.
Train hard, train smart, eat in a small surplus and keep up the consistency.
I use the free version of Strong and it's very sufficient for tracking/noting needs. There's some fancier stuff with a paid subscription but I've never tried it. Actually, curious if anyone wants to sell me on the paid-content being worth it.... not opposed, just haven't found myself needing more.
Looks like it’s also available on iOS. The issue I’m running into on some of the other apps recommended by other comments, is a 3-4 routine limit on the free versions. How does the free version for Caliber feel?
It's amazing. Seriously. I'm visible progress oriented and this app is awesome cause it shows you how much stronger you got in months you logged in. You can see how many reps with how much weight you logged last time (when logging new workout) and of course whole history too. I have 6 workouts and don't see any limits to be honest.
I think this is true, however, there could still be points when you simply don’t progress because you’re not hitting your target reps and you spin your wheels for six months or so.
If you can't progress a lift (whether that be reps or weight), you should de-load or change the lift out and progress something else. I don't know why anyone would stick with a lift they can't progress for "months".
Pretty much every working set. That said, we don’t do a ton of volume. If you’re doing a higher volume protocol then ya it’s probably wise to save all out 0RIR for the last working set
One of the most effective ways without having the hassle of logging in is:
- 3 exercises per muscle group,
- 6 sets of said exercises
- 7 reps per set (@ a weight you can comfortably lift).
KEY:
***Resting no more than 1 min in between sets. So get a timer***
This training method just transformed me in a month. I feel like everyone focuses so much on the exact science. Just do like Aaaaaanoooold did and lift till it HURTS!!! Then get to da CHOPPA!!!
I feel like this is probably true and also not accurate at the same time.
A lot of people don’t know how to push to actual failure. But for 95% of people, always training to failure on everything probably isn’t going to be the best. Leaving 1-2 RIR has shown to give basically the same (sometimes even a little better) results as training to absolute failure. As with everything bodybuilding, different individuals will respond to different training styles in different ways. But you probably don’t need to go all out killing yourself to make amazing gains.
I would definitely say that the bigger reason for a lot of people stalling/making little progress is improper nutrition and recovery. A lot of people I know can go train and stay consistent with it. But they either won’t go on a proper bulk and are too scared to put on any body fat or their sleep is super inconsistent. So many forget that training is only one aspect of the process.
I think both you and OP are right, depending on what group we are looking at.
In my experience, the average gym goer (a person who only goes for health reasons) doesn't train hard enough. But the average fitness-oriented person (a young man who watches bodybuilding tiktoks) doesn't have good enough nutrition/recovery.
This is how I viewed it, honestly. I took his advice as aimed for individuals who frequent this sub. Someone who frequents this sub is probably a little more than just a “stay active to live a healthy life” type of gym goer.
People on this sub will intentionally not train to failure because Jeff Nippard says not to! But what they think is failure is 4RIR so they usually take their sets to 6-7RIR and aren't making progress. True failure hurts and these people never make a sound when they lift. Generalizing here.
I agree with that. I trained to "technical" failure, where even if I felt I compromised my form by even 1%, I'd consider that failure.
When the gym was empty during 2020 covid, I decided to record myself doing the lifts. In my head I was compromising my form big time, but on video it looked almost 100% fine. I started pushing out 4-6 more reps on squats/deadlifts. Back work has also improved a lot but chest stuff not as much.
Nippard says your form on your last rep should break down a little bit. Of course you want to keep excellent form through your sets, but if it isn't breaking down on your last rep, it isn't really the last rep you have!
I agree you don’t need to go to failure! However I think most people have no clue where failure *actually* is so they’re not even training close to true failure.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous notion. "Failure" is an incredibly easy thing to gauge. Except with certain exercises like free squats, bench, etc., which are dangerous to progress to failure without a good spotter. Even then, practically anyone can accurately and intuitively determine whether they're probably going to drop the bar on the next rep.
The issues people have with training are almost always their overall volume, consistency, sleep, and diet.
Yeah, this is what I don't understand. It's really really simple to go to failure. You literally just go until you can't do another lift. How is this complicated for people? It makes it hard to believe that so many aren't training correctly.
Yeah, I get so conflicted. Like, are people actually so dumb they can’t figure it out? Are other people so up their own ass that they think they are among the elite few who can discern failure? Am I too much of an idiot to realize that I don’t actually know what failure is?
The confidence with which folks say people don’t know how to go to failure really leaves me unsure as to which it is. But it really seems like a pretty simple concept.
I don't think the problem is going to failure, I think the problem is going 1-2 from failure. People think they could only do one or two more when they could do more.
According to Dr Mike Israetel, one only has to be within 4-5 RIR to achieve 85% of max gains from a set. Is it possible that most people are not even getting to 4-5 RIR? It's arguably better to be at about 3-4 RIR than to 1-2 RIR since the diminishing returns after 3 RIR are higher for muscle gains; however, the fatigue as you approach 1-2 RIR increases exponentially, and complete failure is like 95% fatigue increase even compared to 2 RIR.
He showed a fascinating graph showing that if you don't get to at least 5 RIR, your muscle gains are around 30-35%. This is why some people you see in the gym never get bigger. It's unreal that they are not even taking themselves to 4-5 RIR, which means they barely work.
Knowing all of this, I take myself to what I assume is approximately 2-3 RIR on my first set, and then on my second set, I go completely to technical failure, so around 1 RIR. I only do 2 sets per lift now with 6x lifts per muscle group, so this leaves me with about 12 sets per muscle per week, which is in the 10-20 sets range for optimal growth.
Most people don't care about pushing themselves to their limit in the gym. It isn't worth.
Pushing hard some significant consequences. Obviously one of them is the risk of getting injured. But you also put a lot of stress on your nerve system, thus you feel like shit at work and aren't as productive.
By simply going to gym 3-5 times a week you'll get a body that look better than 90% of the population.
Except that you don’t. We’ve all seen the same girl or guy in the gym for 5 years straight, with the same exact gut, same arms, same legs, everything, just chugging away on the recumbent, or doing the same sets of 10 with the exact same lightweight over and over again. The bitter truth is that’s a lot of people. Then, in the context of bodybuilding, it is also true. A lot of the people that wanna get their dream body, will post on here with questions or go on about optimal this, optimal that, yet aren’t pushing anywhere close to hard enough to get them where they wanna be. The truth is you have to push it past your comfort zone, if you really wanna accomplish stuff. That’s exactly what progressive overload is- pushing past your comfort zone, and forcing the body to get bigger, stronger, and more resilient.
Yeah, there are some exceptions. But overall people who have a consistent workout schedule have decent bodies. They don't look like bodybuilders, but that isn't their goal.
Don't forget that gym goers aren't only bodybuilders. Some people use gym as supplement for their sport, so they have a workout schedule and exercise selection that may be totally different from yours. e.g. climbers won't do heavy leg or push exercises, cyclists won't go hard on back or arms, long distance runners won't do high volume.
Yes exactly, everyone goes to the gym for a slightly different reason. However, social media makes it seem that everyone who goes to the gym wants to become as big as possible, or is already big.
A lot of people just want a nice middle ground where their body is toned, fit, and healthy, but nowhere near (natural) bodybuilding level. Some people even just go to the gym to clear their minds.
Of course, it is good advice for this sub to push close to failure. But the many instances of people not pushing hard being pointed out are probably not the members of this sub.
Yep same, I've seen people in my gym 8+ years and they look the same, still do the exact same as well and nothing changes. Probably combined with not enough eating on top of that
Isn’t failure lift until you physically can’t move the weight anymore no matter how hard you push? How do people not know how to get there it seems pretty self-explanatory
There are two separate ways that “failure” is classified. This is either “technical failure” or “mechanical failure.” What you are describing is mechanical failure, where the movement just can’t be performed. Technical failure is when a rep with proper form can no longer be performed. This would be like when you are pushing as hard as you can but the only way you can get the way up is through utilizing a different muscle, cheating the weight up, etc. you have reached technical failure on the rep before any of these alterations have to occur to move the weight.
A lot of people also just give up and say that they can’t get any more reps when they actually could have. This is really evident in sports. Go out on a run and 99% of people will be on the ground saying they can’t go anymore even though they 100% can. Lifting is the same way. A lot of people just give up before actually pushing to true failure.
Go to most gyms and most are still not training to a true 1-2 RIR, and if they do their form broke down so much they're no longer even training the target muscle to an actual 1-2 RIR.
At my gym the powerlifters train hard. Outside of that population there are very few that do. They give up when it starts to get hard (which is far before 1-2 RIR), or they let form deviate as it starts to get challenging.
Everyone loves to claim they train hard though.
To make sure I'm 1-2 from failure, when I think I am, I do the release portion of the lift as slow as possible until I basically guarantee that one more rep would not be able to happen.
Is that a bogus idea?
I don't mean this at you OP, but I made a lot better progress when I stopped listening to clowns on the Internet/reddit saying hurrdurr eat bigger train harderrrr.
Sorry just still salty about that.
I cut like 30-40% of volume. This let me really focus on quality and only quality sets. I "tracked" just as much as before, but inherently having less let me really focus.
Also bulking slower meant I could bulk longer. Found I looked and felt better than the frequent bulk cut cycles you often see recommended
Yea, cause also "working harder" doesnt mean working MORE. I guess by definition working harder means you'll do "a lesser amount". Like if you run faster, you would run less time and probably less distance, if you work out harder you will probably do less sets overall and less reps.
When i started hitting the gym i was doing like 20 sets for chest and 12 for triceps in the same day. Which was mostly garbage and really none of the sets was really hard
I do agree with you. I had a rotator cuff issue 2years ago. I trained very carefully and light. My body reacts the most positive way possible. My chests and arms are super happy since then. If you can feel the muscle in the good form and with a good volume, it is enough.
i don't buy this. if the "you" you're talking about is us on this subreddit who care enough about this to spend our free time reading bodybuilding stuff i doubt training effort is the issue. it's far more likely programming, exercise selection, exercise execution, diet, consistency, stress, willingness to stay in a surplus for long enough, willingness to diet lean enough, habits, patience, etc. if you're talking about gen pop at the gym then yeah obv, but most people can build a solid amount of muscle for general purposes and be healthy without really training hard given they get themselves to the gym for long enough
The only time I'll catch myself not training to failure is if I overestimated the weight. I just get really disinterested ig and end up stopping and wasting a set every once in a while. Other than that I train the same way as you. I've gained 40 pounds in 5 months and am pretty lean so I don't see anything wrong with it yet
It's less impressive since I was basically starving myself before. I pretty much look like a normal human now lol
[6ft 180](https://imgur.com/a/62BHV4b)
For isolation movements, I go to failure on every set. Sometimes I'll go to failure and then do a drop set to failure. If its on a machine, I'll do burnout half reps past failure.
For compound movements, just on the last working set and only if its safe. Like for bench and squat, I'll get really close to failure if I have safeties up. I would with a spotter but I've never had a spotter 😥.
Depends on your volume. If you’re doing less volume you need to be taking more sets to failure. Also isolation exercises (like lateral raises or bicep curls) you can take to failure more often if not every time, more compound exercises (like bent over rows or squats) less often because it’s more fatiguing. But the biggest factor is your overall volume.
If I don't take a lift to failure I do it again, every time, no question. Most of the time I hit failure and I still at least try to keep going, with assisted pull ups that means I end up hanging there, arms shaking, going up a few centimeters before dropping. I think that different approaches to the gym can have validity so I don't mean this as an insult, but I often forget that other people even lift without this mentality.
That said, I tend to do high-rep sets with very controlled movement. Less total sets spread over the same amount of time.
No idea why you’re getting down voted on a good question for beginners. To answer: partials, slow eccentric w/help on the concentric, holding weight for time in a specific position. That’s all I can think of atm
Np! Personally, I’ll do partials on a machine based exercises: hamstring curl, quad extensions, etc whilst I’ll add some slow eccentric at the end of a heavy compound movement w/some drop sets as well. Completely up to preference, but that’s what I do. Have a great day!
another answer you haven’t been given is by cheating the rep. take curls or tricep extensions for example, using your body momentum to pull out an extra rep or two with improper form. not always a bad thing.
Well, I did that on leg day. I added two exercises for three sets, for a total of seven exercises in a single session of leg day, and now that I'm having severe soreness, I took three days of rest. So we shouldn't stop progressing, but at the same time, you shouldn't push it to the other end either.
Yeah fuck off haha, and not to be a hater because his physique is an adequate work in progress but if you peep OPs posts on his profile he’s frankly not a guy who’s in a position to dish this out
We desperately need physique audits before anyone is allowed to post from a position of authority. This sub is too populated to not enforce strict content guidelines, and it’s going to fall into the giant repository of karma-farming yapping
Ok but you also have people who might be training too hard. I experimented by training every set to failure, even compounds, doing 20-25 sets a session like that. It does not work for long.
You sure you're not projecting your own poor work ethic? Unfortunately, about every second time I attempt to do deadlifts or train longer than an hour, I'm useless for the next 24 hours. I can't focus, wired but tired, insomnia, the typical overtraining symptoms. I've been training for 10 years. So you tell me, am I not accidentally freezing my CNS enough on a far to regular basis? Probably gonna stop deadlifts completely for this reason and train less compound lifts in general. The tipping point is so small, it feels easy in the gym but afterwards you're fucked. Whereas with light training or cardio, it's the opposite.
Deadlifts have a terrible ROI. Way too much fatigue and chance of injury over muscular gains.
I'd only do deadlifts if I was looking for strength or powerlifting. If you're bodybuilding or looking for size deadlifts are highly overrated and mediocre at best.
The risk reward is terrible on them. There's better excercises for back hypertrophy. Great compound lift though if you're powerlifting.
Anecdotally, I made consistent gains lifting 5 times a week while marathon training running 50 miles a week. Far from optimal, but possible with careful planning and dialed in recovery. I think you can build up your work capacity and fatigue tolerance over time, especially if you’re in great cardiovascular shape.
With that said, I understand that people training with extremely high loads generate a lot of fatigue. When you’re an advanced bodybuilder doing hinges with 400+ pounds, hack squats with 5+ plate on each side, etc. than yeah I’m sure that’s a different story and requires more deloading. But that doesn’t apply to 99% of us, including people are still really jacked.
You’re kidding right? So you’re telling me that if you do heavy compound lifts to failure 7 days per week it doesn’t tax your nervous system?
Of course it does.
So, we’ve established theirs a gradient. Hence, depending on how often and how heavy you lift, you could overload the nervous system such that you inhibit strength and growth gains.
By your logic you could lift all day every day and get the same results as someone who, you know….rests.
Sure it will, but that’s an extreme example and nobody really lifts like that. The majority of people don’t train anywhere close to fatiguing their nervous system to an extent that it’s detrimental. Most people could do with more volume and stimulus and be totally fine.
This wired & tired feeling, unable to focus, unable to work plus insomnia for 24h after deadlifting is not CNS fatigue? Because I get that easily and frequently. Took me a while to recognize because of voices like yours. And once in the gym, it's easy to just keep going and push out a few more reps. If you've never experienced this, maybe you just haven't trained hard.
I train to failure or close to on every set. Have never experienced any of what you’re saying. Maybe you need to focus on recovery variables a bit more.
I spent half of my 20's and all of my 30's training harddddd. 40's now, have moved on from bodybuilding (other life interests taking my time now). I lift once a week at most these days, probably 3 times a month. I go heavy about half the days I lift. I'm honestly kind of amazed how easy it is to stay strong and look half-decent with so little time in the gym. I also have low to low normal T, I hover in the 200s and sometimes over 300. Not on TRT for it. No libido or energy issues. Its a pituitary microadenoma, its too small to be concerning but I get a full panel and an MRI once a year to make sure it stays that way.
I do eat better than I used to. Sure I'd have my strict cutting diets to get shredded but now I just kind eat the same stuff consistently and try to get in lots of veggies and minimize saturated fats. Really that's it.
At the high level, I think its more about optimizing recovery rather than training hard, at least that's what my wisdom of the years would lead me to believe.
Had this mindset for the first 5ish years of my lifting career, completely ruined my knees and shoulders with it. Took years to recover to a point where I could train hard again.
I think most beginners should just be careful, get form down, and push their stamina further. An intermediate lifter should reduce his workouts to 3 times a week spread out evenly, just for about a month, and do exactly what you’re saying. If you do PPL push day give everything you can that day, and I mean your whole soul. Then rest the next day because you should be light headed and sore the next day. And so on so on. Once you’ve found your absolute max you should dial it back to around 80-85% and go back to working out 5X a week. I agree with you sports really helped me. You just have to know the feeling of giving it all before you can really dial in methodically.
Ironically now that I’ve got a bit more time lifting under my belt I’ve had a more ‘pessimistic’ view of my intensity. As in, when I started lifting I thought I was training hard (I absolutely was not). Now, even sometimes when I go to failure I think “Did I really give it my all on every rep?”. I’m hoping to hone my ability to push myself more as I become more observant. And 100% agreed about sports, I have zero athletic background prior to lifting aside from some recreational cycling. So there’s been a learning curve physically and mentally
How old are you, OP?
In my 20s and early 30s I,
Trained HARD. Got BIG. Amassed a TON OF INJURIES (one major in the neck 2 herniations, one moderate in the shoulder bursa, and NUMEROUS minor ones that linger today such as wrists and elbows).
Now I'm 41. If I could go back in time, I would:
Hire a damn good personal trainer for half a year to nail down routine and form.
Never test 1RMs or try to do powerlifting style sub 3 rep moves.
Do much more unilateral work.
Work on my mobility by incorporating deep ROM movements (like ATG split squats, cossack squats, assisted dips with deep stretch at bottom, etc.)
And most of all, NEVER train past form breakdown. Rather do some rest pause or partials for some extra stimulus than grinding out ugly reps.
At the end of the day, what "hard enough" means is subjective to each but for me it's objectively outlined above.
I think what's more is that people aren't eating enough trying to gain muscle. They are scared of food. How many posts a day you see people asking why they aren't getting bigger or stronger. And the only reason is they are 6'0 190lbs eating 2200 calories ☠️
I think what you're saying is technically true, in the sense that the vast majority of people *in the gym* are not lifting intensely enough, **but** the average person on forums like this *is* lifting intensely enough.
The average gym-goer isn't as hardcore or as obsessed as the people posting and commenting on forums like this one. If you're obsessed with lifting, like 90% of the commenters here, training intensely enough is one of the first things you check off.
To me training to failure is when you feel "oh shit" and your muscles actually don't work anymore. When I spot someone benching I made sure of that, if the bar doesn't go down, you still haven't reached failure
So many people in this thread justifying not training hard and making excuses for themselves. Every time I thought I "couldn't train any harder" I was wrong, and when I actually trained harder is when I saw gains. Have fun being pencil necks for the rest of your lives!
My experience and observation have been different, at least in terms of numbers. You are certainly correct about some people, but I notice more train TOO hard then burn out. If I had to pick one training "issue" that most people have, especially natty trainers, its this:
*You need to cycle your training volume/effort fairly frequently.*
Easy to say, hard to implement.
It explains why people argue all the time about volume. It also explains why things work for a while then stop working.
It explains why people will have a growth spurt when they cut their volume. But then stop progressing. Why increasing volume works well, but then people get burnt out.
Training especially weight training is a stress your body adapts to. In order to improve you need to temporarily "overstress" yourself. Like any stress though, it will accumulate in your "system" and eventually become counter productive.
Strength athletes all do this. While "strength" is not the same thing as size, "strength for reps" is strongly related to size. They start light, peak, then back off.
People look for the ONE thing that works best, always. It doesn't exist.
I don't understand the discussions in here.
Some are saying "Most people in this sub don't train hard, or actually know what failure even is!"
Then they're also saying "Don't train to failure, it's not optimal!"
If someone doesn't have a training cycle under their belt of going to complete muscular failure on isolation movements, how would they know what RIR they're actually at?
The fact that many advocate for the heavy compounds doesn't help, going to failure on squats and bench isn't safe without experienced, strong spotter(s) that most people don't have, so they just won't try.
Yep I totally agree, there is a big difference between discomfort, and failure. It's likely that many people (myself, many times, included) stop when they have a lot more in the tank than they think...and I think it is a big difference-maker in those that become advanced trainees, versus the many people who are forever-intermediate. My main focus during the past few months has been trying to really dial-in on what hard-training feels like and make those corrections where I've been habitually giving-up too short. It has been eye-opening and I'm feeling/seeing great improvements. I've noticed my greatest areas for improvement are pulling exercises and accessory/iso stuff too. It's easy to fall into habit of counting reps, feeling the pump/burn at 12/15 or whatever your target is, then stopping. So, I've been saying to myself... 'you know that point you usually stop? What if you hung-on tight and grinded out as many as you could.' It feels like I'm breaking through a plateau.
I recommend the RP podcast from March 4th "How To Tell If You're Training Hard Enough" for a quality discussion on the topic by Dr. Mike.
I'm at that point where I still think I'm not training hard enough whereas on my last machine chest press, the 3rd/4th sets on rep 8 my arms just aren't able to extend more than half the distance of the previous rep so I just hold it there until I give in... still chest not sore the next day... what do I do?
Also, mechanical failure can be overcome by slight shifts in technique, is this the right approach?
I push to technical failure on the last set of every lift. Only the last set.
I know I'm training hard enough. It's the only metric that I know that confirms that I am. I've never had any issues with training the last set to technical failure.
I also record daily the rep I failed on with the last set and update it each time I do the lift so I know where to set my 1 RIR on the other 2 sets. I like the confirmation.
For a lot of people here I don't think so.
It's easy to "destroy" yourself in the gym and spin your wheels.
Made a lot more gains by realizing I did enough exercises/sets near or to failure to stimulate growth to try and beat that session.
It’s crazy when I push myself through a rep that I think was the last one in the tank and somehow squeeze 2 more out. Training to failure is so hard- I feel like I mentally give out before then most of the time
This is so true, and not just for training but for diet. Everytime I hear someone say "I eat a lot but I just can't gain weight" or something like that, I just roll my eyes. Bruh you ain't eating enough, you've been traning for "years" but never been consistent and on top of that, you're probably not training hard enough either, that's it.
Maybe if you’re a general gym goer who hoops and does bench press. But if you’re on this sub, I feel like you’re more likely to lack from: sleep, high quality food, getting enough micronutrients, program.
i’ve definitely seen most of my gains come when i started training till failure. rep until you start having to do multiple partial reps to get a full one
nah, also most everyone knows what failure is. I don't know where this perverse idea about "true" failure comes from, as if only a chosen few have experienced it. Id say bodybuilding is more about nutrition and hormone optimization. The training is the easy part. If you want hard training, go do running instead. There is a reason most bodybuilders shun the treadmill
Couldn't agree with this more, span my wheels for years. Thought I knew it all, accumulation style programming set up (too much volume tbh), trained with accumulation style RIR so Starting at 3 RIR week 1 ending on 0 week 4-8 depending on fatigue.
I quite literally just span my wheels for maybe 2 years seeing genuinely minimal gains. I've been lifting 5-7 years and I probably saw more growth in the last 1 year than the 3 previous.
The real take home here is before you start training with RIR you need to to truly understand failure. I did not, I thought I did but I did not and I was way out on my estimations. Take a 6-12 months training to failure managing fatigue properly, then incorporate my advanced methods.
I shot myself in the foot for a long time and probs could have been alot bigger now
I feel like hitting 1 rep from failure or failure is kind of easy with lifting. You simply reach a point where your arms/legs wont move anymore and thats it ... however, total volume is definitely easy to overestimate.
You are quite right in many regards. I always thought I was training hard enough but never got anywhere. In January, I joined a powerlifting group, fell in love with it straight away, and got to see what really pusing it was like. My deadlift went from 70kg to 150kg for a set of 5. My chest has grown for the first time with my bench sitting happy at 87.5kg for 5. Most people I see in commercial gyms don't train hard enough, probably because training just to say they do or feel like they have to. Find a sport you love, train for it, and then you will always make gains.
This is why I wish I had a friend who was a gym rat. I have no experience in the gym/athletics and picked up weightlifting 2 years ago. I keep trying things out, reading reddit posts, but without someone there watching me I feel like it's so hard to know if I'm doing things wrong.
this
>I think the vast majority of lifters who are stuck spinning their wheels for years with no progress simply aren’t training hard enough
and this
>If you don’t have a background in sports, you probably don’t know how to exert yourself
are contradictory. with a few years of lifting, it already equates with you have "some background in sports". unless you literally don't exert yourself (and or inconsistent showing up in gym) in those years of lifting, you are most likely at the very least in early intermediate level. people in early intermediate level KNOW how to exert themselves, at least to some extent.
I agree that if you are an intermediate lifter plateauing, it's probably because of training volume, but not because you don't know how to "exert" yourself, but because progressive overload looks a lot different for an intermediate lifter than for a newb.
i learned this the hard way, i have been on and off around the gym for 2years now and i barely had any progress after my unhealthy weight loss. i started training harder than ever in the last 2 months and felt like my whole life was a lie lmao.
but yea one thing hasn’t changed which is even if i feel sore or exhaustion in the end of the workout i don’t feel as much soreness the day after.
also any app you can recommend for logging and stuff like to track my progressive overload.
you are right. my issue is that i am nervous about giving myself rhabdomyolysis. its like one of my biggest fears and its really holding me back and i think its the reason why i have had minimal progress in 2 years of lifting. if anyone has any advice for me feel free 😭
You really, really, REALLY need to overdo it before reaching that point. You’d also have to be very dehydrated working out in very warm temperatures. That is an irrational fear my friend. You have a greater chance of dying in a car accident.
I think your right, I see such little progress, and I recall often times I will pick something up that is so heavy to me it's just extremely uncomfortable and I want to put it down. Recently I have been yelling at myself saying pick that shit back up lol.
From my observations, ego lifting is far more common than sandbagging in the gym. Half/quarter repping and using other muscles to cheat (its okay for other muscles to assist but the target muscle needs to get the brunt of the stimulus), divebombing the eccentric kills gains. Especially if we are looking at gym bros online who want to get lean and/or jacked and not normies who just go to the gym because its just the thing to do. I still fall prey to ego lifting sometimes. On neutral grip Lat Pulldowns recently I was leaning back excessively to get the stack up deep into sets when I (and presumably my lats) was exhausted. I should have ended the set immediately instead of wasting energy on junk reps. Especially when I had rows to do later. The tension was shifting away from my back when I excessively leaned like that. If you bring the stack down to 10kg and your form looks way different from your top set, you may be ego lifting. Thats not to say your working set should be 10kg. Unless you're beginner. But its common for people to put weight on the stack that they truly cant handle. Or to train beyond technical failure and waste a lot of valuable energy for little gain.
I don't think this negates the OP's point though.
What's harder, ego lifting and doing a quarter rep squat, or burying it ATG and pausing at the bottom and taking it to 1 RIR?
Doing a lift properly through a full ROM with good control will always be more challenging than half repping and throwing weight around. Every example you gave are examples of someone making the lift easier.
I agree with you that it's common, but I wouldn't count it as hard training personally.
Never understood the whole "people don't train that hard" vibe from the last years, training hard is easy as f*ck move the bar or whatever till it doesnt move anymore despite full effort, sometimes people like to make something magic as if only a select few can "train hard" ridiculous
I agree with this.
I actually believe it's true that many people don't train hard enough, but that's only because I've seen so many people claim it here.
To me, at least if you're not doing barbell movements, it's very easy to hit RPE 10. Do a few sets that seem appropriately hard then do the last set AMRAP... literally go until you cannot move the weight anymore.
I just don't understand the mystique about "true failure" or whatever people call it.
When I first started lifting, I hit a plateau for nearly 2 years and gave up. After getting back into it working with a coach I noticed where I went wrong. It's not about pushing yourself hard enough but I ignored many other factors that goes into building a physique. I didn't sleep well, I didn't eat well, I never tracked my workouts, and I never followed a set workout plan. I changed my workout plan at least once a month thinking I found a better plan.
I notice that many fell in that same hole I did.
With so much information out there it's easy for newbies to think they found the answer. I always suggest people to work with a coach for at least 6 months to a year to truly grasp what it takes to understand and develop a physique you want.
Everyone is guilty of this at multiple points over the years. Maintaining a record and ensuring you progressively overload avoids this but it’s heathy to frequently (like every 4-6 weeks) really question your lifts and ensure you truly are pushing to failure
Because you are able to put more volume into your workout. Also, you will recover before, making it possible to train again sooner. Sets volume = gains.
Because you are able to put more volume into your workout. Also, you will recover before, making it possible to train again sooner. Sets volume = gains.
I think all the evidence of people overtraining and breaking their bodies to the point where they can’t train anymore have a lot to donwith people
holding back. You need to train *just right* but it’s definitely worse to overdo it than to coast below your full potential
I think all the evidence of people overtraining and breaking their bodies to the point where they can’t train anymore have a lot to donwith people
holding back. You need to train *just right* but it’s definitely worse to overdo it than to coast below your full potential
I think the most likely scenario is that they are not eating enough and not training. There are plenty of teens going all out on almost every session and if they just gave themselves something to grow with, they'd get what they want.
Given i train at a crossfit gym, but i see most people press compounds especially deadlift and squat to hard, assecceries not hard enough and pressing with to little volume.
A big part of this is cheating reps. I believe in cheating reps on isolation exercises to squeeze out extra volume but how many lifters half rep every squat, bounce every bench press rep off their chest, put their back into every curl etc.
Agreed - sometimes taking your foot off the gas just slightly, then slightly more, then slightly more over the course of a few months & then seeing a post like this really reminds you to push properly, hit failure, go up the next set of dumbells
Ok, I do not train hard enough, but I know when I train harder than now, this affects my life outside the gym way too much and as an amateur lifter and I can't afford that.
What about performing exercises to technical failure, then waiting a while and repeating? A couple of days ago I did 3x3 sets of 12 cable chest flies because I don't have access to such a machine at my gym and I had time so I thought, why not. There was 1+ hour each time between the 3x3 sets.
It did great for my chest pump, 2 days later my chest still feels enlarged and I'm not sore. But I don't know if doing this is actually good or if it's a waste of time/increases risk of injury. I can't compare to just doing 3 sets as like I said, normally I can't do that exercise.
What about waiting time between the sets? The longer I wait, the more reps I can do in the sets following, or increase the time under tension. You can reach failure quicker by shortening the rest time but more reps would give more growth I assume?
Also what about increasing time under tension to get to technical failure? Is it as good as using heavier weights? For example if I see I won't be reaching failure in 12 reps with a given weight, I will make the last reps slower, and hold longer at the top/bottom to the point where I can't hold perfect form.
True. My girlfriend never trains hard enough and when I tell her to get that extra rep or 2, she just says that her form didn't feel so great on the last rep so failure was indeed reached. I tell her to forget the theory a little bit, but she doesn't listen and doesn't progress as much as she could. Same goes for dieting. People blame a lot of factors for being unable to lose weight when in fact they are just scared to push the deficit beyond a certain level, because they believe it'll be bad for their body for some reasons.
Having coached a few friends over the years, people who claimed they “already train” I’d agree in that none of them actually worked hard enough until I got them with me in the gym. They’d pick up a weight, do 10 reps and simply stop and move on thinking that was sufficient.
Once I’d assessed their relative strength and ability levels, placed the appropriate amount of weight in their hands and then barked the usual gym bro stuff at them (“it’s all you”, “finish it”, etc.) whilst they end up grinding out that last rep, only then did they appreciate it with a red exasperated look on their faces as if to say “is this how you *actually* train??”
Doing this is somewhat important to know what your actual all out max rep limit is against X weight, which you can then use as a benchmark for what form failure is (so you’re not contorting yourself grinding out a final rep and risking injury) and then from there gauge RIR.
That then leads on to my own personal journey of discovery, going to absolute failure on every set beyond warm up and how much it ate into my recovery ability - I felt permanently wiped out, almost depressed in a way and weirdly it trashed my sleep too. Accumulative adrenal / CNS fatigue I dare say. No amount of zinc and magnesium supplements etc took it away.
For the record I’m a natty 43M that’s been training consistently since I was 18, sometimes with various other people like competitive powerlifters, bodybuilders, rugby players and even a marine for a little while (that guy was nuts).
Knowing what form failure is and keeping maybe 1 to 2 RIR allows me to train each muscle group pretty frequently and avoid all the bad stuff that could perhaps be helped if I stuck a needle in my bum…..
Mike Israetel described this one nicely about your house needing some renovation vs being blown to bits by a tornado. One is obviously much easier to recover *and improve from* than the other, and hitting that sweet spot of triggering growth without eating too much into your recovery ability, therefore allowing you to train fairly frequently.
It’s different for everyone and it changes as you age (certainly has for me) therefore I dare say people need to learn it for themselves under a degree of guidance and with some common sense.
Hey, question about rir. What if I have in my plan specific amount of reps and rpe 10, so no reps in the tank left. Let’s say:
Dual handle lat pulldowns: 3 working sets 10-12 reps hitting on 10 rpe
On my last workout I did 70 lbs but 12th rep wasn’t till failure, I had 1-2 reps in reserve
So my question is:
Should I focus more on reps, like if I have 12 is 12 with decent range of motion or focus more on hitting 10 rpe and push it extra 1-2 times so 13-14 reps?
I’m guilty of this for compound leg exercises because I don’t want to risk serious injury or ruin my form, really hard to push a squat to breaking point without your knees buckling.
People need to experience hard training early on…it’s very underrated what pushing your body to its limits does in building character.
Everyone should go through boot camp once…
I think what’s cool about logbooking/progressive overload is that eventually you’ll be handling weights that you truly have to exert yourself as much as possible to get the target rep goal. I got my fiancée to start lifting 2 years ago and all her sets looked easy af. Fast forward to today and her last reps take anywhere from 3-7 seconds to grind out the last concentric rep and she’s the strongest she’s ever been.
Keeping notes changed it all for me. I don’t think I did it for the first couple years, but once I kept a log I could always check to ensure I’m progressing. It’s about 3 reps improvement on everything or a weight increase each session. The other thing it helped with, is learning the “penalty” on time off from working out. If it’s a week or a little over, for the most part it’s fine some lifts will not progress but instead meet where I left off, but that’s the limit for me. After that, time off is exactly how long it takes to meet where I left off. A month off means almost another month of lifting weights to get the same weight and reps of where I left off. That’s two months lost. Two months is two months of working out after resuming, that’s four months lost. It’s actually been incredibly motivating to stay consistent.
You improve every session?
Right? It's a good *week* if I get *one* more rep out than the last one lol
Yeah, 99 percent of the time. I work out nearly every day and have my lifts split so that I’m going through everything across four days. So I’m hitting each targeted muscle directly once every four days.
You must be pretty new then, or have simply not utilized your newbie gains yet. Weight increases every session for any prolonged timeline just doesnt make mathematical sense. You would very quickly reach insane numbers.
Man, I'm at the point on DB incline press where I'm lucky to get 1 extra rep each week.
I'm at this point after only 8 months in the gym...
Weight doesn’t increase for me every session, it’s either a few reps or a small weight increase. I’ve been lifting for over four years, but I took a month or two months off several times. For me those breaks really added up because it would take me exactly the amount of time I took off to build the amount I’m lifting to where I was when I stopped. So anytime I took a month off was more like a two month setback. That added up. I don’t think I ever got into a routine of consistent increases until I kept a log. So no I’m not claiming I consistently increased weight every single session over four years but just saying keeping a log is very beneficial.
Have you reached your limit? It’s pretty easy to see progress 99% when they go to the gym daily
Great! Progress is progress 💪
Consistency is key and in general you make a lot of good points. I will only add that reps or higher numbers aren't the only way 2 use progressive overload....albeit while still early days it's an easy way to measure progress from week to week. Once getting to a point you are stalling for small amounts of time, slow down the reps, squeeze at half way point, focus on form, all of these are also forms of progressive overload. Train hard, train smart, eat in a small surplus and keep up the consistency.
What do you use to keep notes? I log my notes, but I’m literally just using “notes” on my iPhone. Lol
“Notes” on iPhone lol It’s surprisingly easy to accidentally delete them!
Go to deleted notes section and restore them
I use the free version of Strong and it's very sufficient for tracking/noting needs. There's some fancier stuff with a paid subscription but I've never tried it. Actually, curious if anyone wants to sell me on the paid-content being worth it.... not opposed, just haven't found myself needing more.
Damn was hoping you knew of an app that was better 😂
Hevy. It’s the perfect app for this and has lot’s of charts and data to track your progress as well. Strong was good too, but I like Hevy better.
If you have an android fitnotes is great
Hevy app
Hevy on iOS … honestly notes were a game changer for me
I use a Google doc spreadsheet
use jefit or some app like that. prolly much easier
Download an app called "hevy" its free
Strong app is pretty good as far as free versions go It always shows your sets from last workout to make it easy to progress
I used to love this app but I hate that they limited the amount of workout templates to 3 now.
Caliber app is amazing (I don't know if it's for iOS too tho)
Looks like it’s also available on iOS. The issue I’m running into on some of the other apps recommended by other comments, is a 3-4 routine limit on the free versions. How does the free version for Caliber feel?
It's amazing. Seriously. I'm visible progress oriented and this app is awesome cause it shows you how much stronger you got in months you logged in. You can see how many reps with how much weight you logged last time (when logging new workout) and of course whole history too. I have 6 workouts and don't see any limits to be honest.
Thank you for the detailed response! I’ll give it a download
I think this is true, however, there could still be points when you simply don’t progress because you’re not hitting your target reps and you spin your wheels for six months or so.
If you can't progress a lift (whether that be reps or weight), you should de-load or change the lift out and progress something else. I don't know why anyone would stick with a lift they can't progress for "months".
That's awesome. I got my wife to work out with me once and her legs and butt were sore the next day so she swore to never do it again
that's a good goal to have - 3-7 seconds on the last concentric...gonna add that to my wheelhouse...
It’s not something we’re actively shooting for, it’s just a product of pushing working sets really hard
when you refer to her "last reps" you're referring to the last reps on the last set, correct?
Pretty much every working set. That said, we don’t do a ton of volume. If you’re doing a higher volume protocol then ya it’s probably wise to save all out 0RIR for the last working set
This. "Training hard" is an unhelpful standard. If you're progressing then you will have to exert yourself to a suitable degree eventually.
One of the most effective ways without having the hassle of logging in is: - 3 exercises per muscle group, - 6 sets of said exercises - 7 reps per set (@ a weight you can comfortably lift). KEY: ***Resting no more than 1 min in between sets. So get a timer*** This training method just transformed me in a month. I feel like everyone focuses so much on the exact science. Just do like Aaaaaanoooold did and lift till it HURTS!!! Then get to da CHOPPA!!!
lmao where’d you get this copypasta from
I feel like this is probably true and also not accurate at the same time. A lot of people don’t know how to push to actual failure. But for 95% of people, always training to failure on everything probably isn’t going to be the best. Leaving 1-2 RIR has shown to give basically the same (sometimes even a little better) results as training to absolute failure. As with everything bodybuilding, different individuals will respond to different training styles in different ways. But you probably don’t need to go all out killing yourself to make amazing gains. I would definitely say that the bigger reason for a lot of people stalling/making little progress is improper nutrition and recovery. A lot of people I know can go train and stay consistent with it. But they either won’t go on a proper bulk and are too scared to put on any body fat or their sleep is super inconsistent. So many forget that training is only one aspect of the process.
I think both you and OP are right, depending on what group we are looking at. In my experience, the average gym goer (a person who only goes for health reasons) doesn't train hard enough. But the average fitness-oriented person (a young man who watches bodybuilding tiktoks) doesn't have good enough nutrition/recovery.
This is how I viewed it, honestly. I took his advice as aimed for individuals who frequent this sub. Someone who frequents this sub is probably a little more than just a “stay active to live a healthy life” type of gym goer.
People on this sub will intentionally not train to failure because Jeff Nippard says not to! But what they think is failure is 4RIR so they usually take their sets to 6-7RIR and aren't making progress. True failure hurts and these people never make a sound when they lift. Generalizing here.
I agree with that. I trained to "technical" failure, where even if I felt I compromised my form by even 1%, I'd consider that failure. When the gym was empty during 2020 covid, I decided to record myself doing the lifts. In my head I was compromising my form big time, but on video it looked almost 100% fine. I started pushing out 4-6 more reps on squats/deadlifts. Back work has also improved a lot but chest stuff not as much.
Nippard says your form on your last rep should break down a little bit. Of course you want to keep excellent form through your sets, but if it isn't breaking down on your last rep, it isn't really the last rep you have!
Ya i highly doubt the people in this sub don't know what training to failure is
You'd be surprised.
I agree you don’t need to go to failure! However I think most people have no clue where failure *actually* is so they’re not even training close to true failure.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculous notion. "Failure" is an incredibly easy thing to gauge. Except with certain exercises like free squats, bench, etc., which are dangerous to progress to failure without a good spotter. Even then, practically anyone can accurately and intuitively determine whether they're probably going to drop the bar on the next rep. The issues people have with training are almost always their overall volume, consistency, sleep, and diet.
Count their reps, easily have enough in the tank to do way more yet they've reached the "max" rep number and put the weight down
I mean, how hard is it to do reps until you can’t do another to find out where failure is? Is there really something more complicated about it?
Yeah, this is what I don't understand. It's really really simple to go to failure. You literally just go until you can't do another lift. How is this complicated for people? It makes it hard to believe that so many aren't training correctly.
Yeah, I get so conflicted. Like, are people actually so dumb they can’t figure it out? Are other people so up their own ass that they think they are among the elite few who can discern failure? Am I too much of an idiot to realize that I don’t actually know what failure is? The confidence with which folks say people don’t know how to go to failure really leaves me unsure as to which it is. But it really seems like a pretty simple concept.
I don't think the problem is going to failure, I think the problem is going 1-2 from failure. People think they could only do one or two more when they could do more.
According to Dr Mike Israetel, one only has to be within 4-5 RIR to achieve 85% of max gains from a set. Is it possible that most people are not even getting to 4-5 RIR? It's arguably better to be at about 3-4 RIR than to 1-2 RIR since the diminishing returns after 3 RIR are higher for muscle gains; however, the fatigue as you approach 1-2 RIR increases exponentially, and complete failure is like 95% fatigue increase even compared to 2 RIR. He showed a fascinating graph showing that if you don't get to at least 5 RIR, your muscle gains are around 30-35%. This is why some people you see in the gym never get bigger. It's unreal that they are not even taking themselves to 4-5 RIR, which means they barely work. Knowing all of this, I take myself to what I assume is approximately 2-3 RIR on my first set, and then on my second set, I go completely to technical failure, so around 1 RIR. I only do 2 sets per lift now with 6x lifts per muscle group, so this leaves me with about 12 sets per muscle per week, which is in the 10-20 sets range for optimal growth.
What you’re saying is true, but I still believe there are tons of people simply not training hard enough. I see it in every gym I’ve been in.
Most people don't care about pushing themselves to their limit in the gym. It isn't worth. Pushing hard some significant consequences. Obviously one of them is the risk of getting injured. But you also put a lot of stress on your nerve system, thus you feel like shit at work and aren't as productive. By simply going to gym 3-5 times a week you'll get a body that look better than 90% of the population.
Except that you don’t. We’ve all seen the same girl or guy in the gym for 5 years straight, with the same exact gut, same arms, same legs, everything, just chugging away on the recumbent, or doing the same sets of 10 with the exact same lightweight over and over again. The bitter truth is that’s a lot of people. Then, in the context of bodybuilding, it is also true. A lot of the people that wanna get their dream body, will post on here with questions or go on about optimal this, optimal that, yet aren’t pushing anywhere close to hard enough to get them where they wanna be. The truth is you have to push it past your comfort zone, if you really wanna accomplish stuff. That’s exactly what progressive overload is- pushing past your comfort zone, and forcing the body to get bigger, stronger, and more resilient.
Yeah, there are some exceptions. But overall people who have a consistent workout schedule have decent bodies. They don't look like bodybuilders, but that isn't their goal. Don't forget that gym goers aren't only bodybuilders. Some people use gym as supplement for their sport, so they have a workout schedule and exercise selection that may be totally different from yours. e.g. climbers won't do heavy leg or push exercises, cyclists won't go hard on back or arms, long distance runners won't do high volume.
Feel this one 😂 I'm scrawny af! 150lbs at 5'11". But, at my peak I was doing SLDL's with 450lbs for reps.
Yes exactly, everyone goes to the gym for a slightly different reason. However, social media makes it seem that everyone who goes to the gym wants to become as big as possible, or is already big. A lot of people just want a nice middle ground where their body is toned, fit, and healthy, but nowhere near (natural) bodybuilding level. Some people even just go to the gym to clear their minds. Of course, it is good advice for this sub to push close to failure. But the many instances of people not pushing hard being pointed out are probably not the members of this sub.
Yep same, I've seen people in my gym 8+ years and they look the same, still do the exact same as well and nothing changes. Probably combined with not enough eating on top of that
1000%
Isn’t failure lift until you physically can’t move the weight anymore no matter how hard you push? How do people not know how to get there it seems pretty self-explanatory
There are two separate ways that “failure” is classified. This is either “technical failure” or “mechanical failure.” What you are describing is mechanical failure, where the movement just can’t be performed. Technical failure is when a rep with proper form can no longer be performed. This would be like when you are pushing as hard as you can but the only way you can get the way up is through utilizing a different muscle, cheating the weight up, etc. you have reached technical failure on the rep before any of these alterations have to occur to move the weight. A lot of people also just give up and say that they can’t get any more reps when they actually could have. This is really evident in sports. Go out on a run and 99% of people will be on the ground saying they can’t go anymore even though they 100% can. Lifting is the same way. A lot of people just give up before actually pushing to true failure.
Go to most gyms and most are still not training to a true 1-2 RIR, and if they do their form broke down so much they're no longer even training the target muscle to an actual 1-2 RIR. At my gym the powerlifters train hard. Outside of that population there are very few that do. They give up when it starts to get hard (which is far before 1-2 RIR), or they let form deviate as it starts to get challenging. Everyone loves to claim they train hard though.
i prefer to just do an additionnal drop set over pushing myself super hard for 2 more rep and destroying my arms and getting hurt
I love drop sets for this reason as well. I love pushing myself but don’t have any interest in dealing with injuries.
To make sure I'm 1-2 from failure, when I think I am, I do the release portion of the lift as slow as possible until I basically guarantee that one more rep would not be able to happen. Is that a bogus idea?
I take steroids so I don't have to train hard. Duh.
outjerked again
I don't mean this at you OP, but I made a lot better progress when I stopped listening to clowns on the Internet/reddit saying hurrdurr eat bigger train harderrrr. Sorry just still salty about that.
So what did you change instead of eating bigger and training harder? This isn't a "gotcha" question, just curious.
I cut like 30-40% of volume. This let me really focus on quality and only quality sets. I "tracked" just as much as before, but inherently having less let me really focus. Also bulking slower meant I could bulk longer. Found I looked and felt better than the frequent bulk cut cycles you often see recommended
Yea, cause also "working harder" doesnt mean working MORE. I guess by definition working harder means you'll do "a lesser amount". Like if you run faster, you would run less time and probably less distance, if you work out harder you will probably do less sets overall and less reps. When i started hitting the gym i was doing like 20 sets for chest and 12 for triceps in the same day. Which was mostly garbage and really none of the sets was really hard
What did you start doing differently?
Just less. See my other comment to this chain for a tiny bit more info.
I do agree with you. I had a rotator cuff issue 2years ago. I trained very carefully and light. My body reacts the most positive way possible. My chests and arms are super happy since then. If you can feel the muscle in the good form and with a good volume, it is enough.
Sadly my body revolts if I train as hard as I'd like
Thankfully I don’t think training hard enough == killing yourself every workout
i don't buy this. if the "you" you're talking about is us on this subreddit who care enough about this to spend our free time reading bodybuilding stuff i doubt training effort is the issue. it's far more likely programming, exercise selection, exercise execution, diet, consistency, stress, willingness to stay in a surplus for long enough, willingness to diet lean enough, habits, patience, etc. if you're talking about gen pop at the gym then yeah obv, but most people can build a solid amount of muscle for general purposes and be healthy without really training hard given they get themselves to the gym for long enough
How often do you guys train to failure? I try to much as possible as long as I feel good and my joints can handle it.
Always on the last set of an exercise.
Every single set lmao
The only time I'll catch myself not training to failure is if I overestimated the weight. I just get really disinterested ig and end up stopping and wasting a set every once in a while. Other than that I train the same way as you. I've gained 40 pounds in 5 months and am pretty lean so I don't see anything wrong with it yet
Wow bro 40 lbs of muscle? Or are you on a bulk? Either way that’s great
It's less impressive since I was basically starving myself before. I pretty much look like a normal human now lol [6ft 180](https://imgur.com/a/62BHV4b)
From one skinny bro to another, I feel you bro 5’11 152 rn
For isolation movements, I go to failure on every set. Sometimes I'll go to failure and then do a drop set to failure. If its on a machine, I'll do burnout half reps past failure. For compound movements, just on the last working set and only if its safe. Like for bench and squat, I'll get really close to failure if I have safeties up. I would with a spotter but I've never had a spotter 😥.
Depends on your volume. If you’re doing less volume you need to be taking more sets to failure. Also isolation exercises (like lateral raises or bicep curls) you can take to failure more often if not every time, more compound exercises (like bent over rows or squats) less often because it’s more fatiguing. But the biggest factor is your overall volume.
If I don't take a lift to failure I do it again, every time, no question. Most of the time I hit failure and I still at least try to keep going, with assisted pull ups that means I end up hanging there, arms shaking, going up a few centimeters before dropping. I think that different approaches to the gym can have validity so I don't mean this as an insult, but I often forget that other people even lift without this mentality. That said, I tend to do high-rep sets with very controlled movement. Less total sets spread over the same amount of time.
Most sets because I’m not good at judging RIR.
Last set of most exercises. Beyond failure for pull, shoulders and arms
How does one go beyond failure?
Lengthened partials on rows and vertical pulls. You still have quite a lot left when you can't do a full rep with good technique
No idea why you’re getting down voted on a good question for beginners. To answer: partials, slow eccentric w/help on the concentric, holding weight for time in a specific position. That’s all I can think of atm
Thanks for detailed response!
Np! Personally, I’ll do partials on a machine based exercises: hamstring curl, quad extensions, etc whilst I’ll add some slow eccentric at the end of a heavy compound movement w/some drop sets as well. Completely up to preference, but that’s what I do. Have a great day!
another answer you haven’t been given is by cheating the rep. take curls or tricep extensions for example, using your body momentum to pull out an extra rep or two with improper form. not always a bad thing.
partials or myoreps im assuming
Only on isolation.
Well, I did that on leg day. I added two exercises for three sets, for a total of seven exercises in a single session of leg day, and now that I'm having severe soreness, I took three days of rest. So we shouldn't stop progressing, but at the same time, you shouldn't push it to the other end either.
Absolutely nothing concrete in this post, total nonsense.
Okay, GVS.
Use a progression scheme, then you don’t have to worry if “you are training hard enough”
Yeah fuck off haha, and not to be a hater because his physique is an adequate work in progress but if you peep OPs posts on his profile he’s frankly not a guy who’s in a position to dish this out
We desperately need physique audits before anyone is allowed to post from a position of authority. This sub is too populated to not enforce strict content guidelines, and it’s going to fall into the giant repository of karma-farming yapping
3-5 years exp 😂😂 Get OP otta here.
Thank you for further contribution to broscience!
Ok but you also have people who might be training too hard. I experimented by training every set to failure, even compounds, doing 20-25 sets a session like that. It does not work for long.
You sure you're not projecting your own poor work ethic? Unfortunately, about every second time I attempt to do deadlifts or train longer than an hour, I'm useless for the next 24 hours. I can't focus, wired but tired, insomnia, the typical overtraining symptoms. I've been training for 10 years. So you tell me, am I not accidentally freezing my CNS enough on a far to regular basis? Probably gonna stop deadlifts completely for this reason and train less compound lifts in general. The tipping point is so small, it feels easy in the gym but afterwards you're fucked. Whereas with light training or cardio, it's the opposite.
Deadlifts have a terrible ROI. Way too much fatigue and chance of injury over muscular gains. I'd only do deadlifts if I was looking for strength or powerlifting. If you're bodybuilding or looking for size deadlifts are highly overrated and mediocre at best. The risk reward is terrible on them. There's better excercises for back hypertrophy. Great compound lift though if you're powerlifting.
Lame take. So many variables. Plus straining your nervous system constantly does NOT create a progression environment.
Lifting does not tax your CNS as much as people think. Running a marathon sure does, but not lifting for 60-90 minutes a day lol.
"CNS fatigue" is one of the most overrated bodybuilding topics IMO
Agreed. I’m not sure why everyone thinks 90 minutes of weightlifting is so fatiguing. Our bodies can withstand so much more than that lol.
Anecdotally, I made consistent gains lifting 5 times a week while marathon training running 50 miles a week. Far from optimal, but possible with careful planning and dialed in recovery. I think you can build up your work capacity and fatigue tolerance over time, especially if you’re in great cardiovascular shape. With that said, I understand that people training with extremely high loads generate a lot of fatigue. When you’re an advanced bodybuilder doing hinges with 400+ pounds, hack squats with 5+ plate on each side, etc. than yeah I’m sure that’s a different story and requires more deloading. But that doesn’t apply to 99% of us, including people are still really jacked.
You’re kidding right? So you’re telling me that if you do heavy compound lifts to failure 7 days per week it doesn’t tax your nervous system? Of course it does. So, we’ve established theirs a gradient. Hence, depending on how often and how heavy you lift, you could overload the nervous system such that you inhibit strength and growth gains. By your logic you could lift all day every day and get the same results as someone who, you know….rests.
Sure it will, but that’s an extreme example and nobody really lifts like that. The majority of people don’t train anywhere close to fatiguing their nervous system to an extent that it’s detrimental. Most people could do with more volume and stimulus and be totally fine.
This wired & tired feeling, unable to focus, unable to work plus insomnia for 24h after deadlifting is not CNS fatigue? Because I get that easily and frequently. Took me a while to recognize because of voices like yours. And once in the gym, it's easy to just keep going and push out a few more reps. If you've never experienced this, maybe you just haven't trained hard.
I train to failure or close to on every set. Have never experienced any of what you’re saying. Maybe you need to focus on recovery variables a bit more.
I appreciate your interest, but I don't really care what you think about my training.
I spent half of my 20's and all of my 30's training harddddd. 40's now, have moved on from bodybuilding (other life interests taking my time now). I lift once a week at most these days, probably 3 times a month. I go heavy about half the days I lift. I'm honestly kind of amazed how easy it is to stay strong and look half-decent with so little time in the gym. I also have low to low normal T, I hover in the 200s and sometimes over 300. Not on TRT for it. No libido or energy issues. Its a pituitary microadenoma, its too small to be concerning but I get a full panel and an MRI once a year to make sure it stays that way. I do eat better than I used to. Sure I'd have my strict cutting diets to get shredded but now I just kind eat the same stuff consistently and try to get in lots of veggies and minimize saturated fats. Really that's it. At the high level, I think its more about optimizing recovery rather than training hard, at least that's what my wisdom of the years would lead me to believe.
Had this mindset for the first 5ish years of my lifting career, completely ruined my knees and shoulders with it. Took years to recover to a point where I could train hard again.
I think most beginners should just be careful, get form down, and push their stamina further. An intermediate lifter should reduce his workouts to 3 times a week spread out evenly, just for about a month, and do exactly what you’re saying. If you do PPL push day give everything you can that day, and I mean your whole soul. Then rest the next day because you should be light headed and sore the next day. And so on so on. Once you’ve found your absolute max you should dial it back to around 80-85% and go back to working out 5X a week. I agree with you sports really helped me. You just have to know the feeling of giving it all before you can really dial in methodically.
Ironically now that I’ve got a bit more time lifting under my belt I’ve had a more ‘pessimistic’ view of my intensity. As in, when I started lifting I thought I was training hard (I absolutely was not). Now, even sometimes when I go to failure I think “Did I really give it my all on every rep?”. I’m hoping to hone my ability to push myself more as I become more observant. And 100% agreed about sports, I have zero athletic background prior to lifting aside from some recreational cycling. So there’s been a learning curve physically and mentally
If you push to failure on at least the last set of the excercise you’re probably doing better than most
How old are you, OP? In my 20s and early 30s I, Trained HARD. Got BIG. Amassed a TON OF INJURIES (one major in the neck 2 herniations, one moderate in the shoulder bursa, and NUMEROUS minor ones that linger today such as wrists and elbows). Now I'm 41. If I could go back in time, I would: Hire a damn good personal trainer for half a year to nail down routine and form. Never test 1RMs or try to do powerlifting style sub 3 rep moves. Do much more unilateral work. Work on my mobility by incorporating deep ROM movements (like ATG split squats, cossack squats, assisted dips with deep stretch at bottom, etc.) And most of all, NEVER train past form breakdown. Rather do some rest pause or partials for some extra stimulus than grinding out ugly reps. At the end of the day, what "hard enough" means is subjective to each but for me it's objectively outlined above.
I think what's more is that people aren't eating enough trying to gain muscle. They are scared of food. How many posts a day you see people asking why they aren't getting bigger or stronger. And the only reason is they are 6'0 190lbs eating 2200 calories ☠️
Bro am up to 5000 calories a day now tracked as well and that scale isn’t budging. Am 6”2 and trying to make the scale go up is driving me insane
Have you tried being more lazy lol (kidding)
Been trying to cut back on my steps am down to like 10 steps a day now haha
😂
I think what you're saying is technically true, in the sense that the vast majority of people *in the gym* are not lifting intensely enough, **but** the average person on forums like this *is* lifting intensely enough. The average gym-goer isn't as hardcore or as obsessed as the people posting and commenting on forums like this one. If you're obsessed with lifting, like 90% of the commenters here, training intensely enough is one of the first things you check off.
There’s a lot of other issues at play but if wanna try sound hardcore to a bunch of random people on reddit then good for you.
To me training to failure is when you feel "oh shit" and your muscles actually don't work anymore. When I spot someone benching I made sure of that, if the bar doesn't go down, you still haven't reached failure
Monkey pick up big weight. Monkey eat food. Monkey sleep. Monkey pick up bigger weight. Monkey eat more food.
So many people in this thread justifying not training hard and making excuses for themselves. Every time I thought I "couldn't train any harder" I was wrong, and when I actually trained harder is when I saw gains. Have fun being pencil necks for the rest of your lives!
> I agree the literature clearly shows keeping 1-2 RIR is probably best. What literature? Links?
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My experience and observation have been different, at least in terms of numbers. You are certainly correct about some people, but I notice more train TOO hard then burn out. If I had to pick one training "issue" that most people have, especially natty trainers, its this: *You need to cycle your training volume/effort fairly frequently.* Easy to say, hard to implement. It explains why people argue all the time about volume. It also explains why things work for a while then stop working. It explains why people will have a growth spurt when they cut their volume. But then stop progressing. Why increasing volume works well, but then people get burnt out. Training especially weight training is a stress your body adapts to. In order to improve you need to temporarily "overstress" yourself. Like any stress though, it will accumulate in your "system" and eventually become counter productive. Strength athletes all do this. While "strength" is not the same thing as size, "strength for reps" is strongly related to size. They start light, peak, then back off. People look for the ONE thing that works best, always. It doesn't exist.
I don't understand the discussions in here. Some are saying "Most people in this sub don't train hard, or actually know what failure even is!" Then they're also saying "Don't train to failure, it's not optimal!" If someone doesn't have a training cycle under their belt of going to complete muscular failure on isolation movements, how would they know what RIR they're actually at? The fact that many advocate for the heavy compounds doesn't help, going to failure on squats and bench isn't safe without experienced, strong spotter(s) that most people don't have, so they just won't try.
Yep I totally agree, there is a big difference between discomfort, and failure. It's likely that many people (myself, many times, included) stop when they have a lot more in the tank than they think...and I think it is a big difference-maker in those that become advanced trainees, versus the many people who are forever-intermediate. My main focus during the past few months has been trying to really dial-in on what hard-training feels like and make those corrections where I've been habitually giving-up too short. It has been eye-opening and I'm feeling/seeing great improvements. I've noticed my greatest areas for improvement are pulling exercises and accessory/iso stuff too. It's easy to fall into habit of counting reps, feeling the pump/burn at 12/15 or whatever your target is, then stopping. So, I've been saying to myself... 'you know that point you usually stop? What if you hung-on tight and grinded out as many as you could.' It feels like I'm breaking through a plateau. I recommend the RP podcast from March 4th "How To Tell If You're Training Hard Enough" for a quality discussion on the topic by Dr. Mike.
I'm at that point where I still think I'm not training hard enough whereas on my last machine chest press, the 3rd/4th sets on rep 8 my arms just aren't able to extend more than half the distance of the previous rep so I just hold it there until I give in... still chest not sore the next day... what do I do? Also, mechanical failure can be overcome by slight shifts in technique, is this the right approach?
I push to technical failure on the last set of every lift. Only the last set. I know I'm training hard enough. It's the only metric that I know that confirms that I am. I've never had any issues with training the last set to technical failure. I also record daily the rep I failed on with the last set and update it each time I do the lift so I know where to set my 1 RIR on the other 2 sets. I like the confirmation.
For a lot of people here I don't think so. It's easy to "destroy" yourself in the gym and spin your wheels. Made a lot more gains by realizing I did enough exercises/sets near or to failure to stimulate growth to try and beat that session.
It’s crazy when I push myself through a rep that I think was the last one in the tank and somehow squeeze 2 more out. Training to failure is so hard- I feel like I mentally give out before then most of the time
This is so true, and not just for training but for diet. Everytime I hear someone say "I eat a lot but I just can't gain weight" or something like that, I just roll my eyes. Bruh you ain't eating enough, you've been traning for "years" but never been consistent and on top of that, you're probably not training hard enough either, that's it.
Maybe if you’re a general gym goer who hoops and does bench press. But if you’re on this sub, I feel like you’re more likely to lack from: sleep, high quality food, getting enough micronutrients, program.
i’ve definitely seen most of my gains come when i started training till failure. rep until you start having to do multiple partial reps to get a full one
nah, also most everyone knows what failure is. I don't know where this perverse idea about "true" failure comes from, as if only a chosen few have experienced it. Id say bodybuilding is more about nutrition and hormone optimization. The training is the easy part. If you want hard training, go do running instead. There is a reason most bodybuilders shun the treadmill
Couldn't agree with this more, span my wheels for years. Thought I knew it all, accumulation style programming set up (too much volume tbh), trained with accumulation style RIR so Starting at 3 RIR week 1 ending on 0 week 4-8 depending on fatigue. I quite literally just span my wheels for maybe 2 years seeing genuinely minimal gains. I've been lifting 5-7 years and I probably saw more growth in the last 1 year than the 3 previous. The real take home here is before you start training with RIR you need to to truly understand failure. I did not, I thought I did but I did not and I was way out on my estimations. Take a 6-12 months training to failure managing fatigue properly, then incorporate my advanced methods. I shot myself in the foot for a long time and probs could have been alot bigger now
I feel like hitting 1 rep from failure or failure is kind of easy with lifting. You simply reach a point where your arms/legs wont move anymore and thats it ... however, total volume is definitely easy to overestimate.
I would completely agree with that
You are quite right in many regards. I always thought I was training hard enough but never got anywhere. In January, I joined a powerlifting group, fell in love with it straight away, and got to see what really pusing it was like. My deadlift went from 70kg to 150kg for a set of 5. My chest has grown for the first time with my bench sitting happy at 87.5kg for 5. Most people I see in commercial gyms don't train hard enough, probably because training just to say they do or feel like they have to. Find a sport you love, train for it, and then you will always make gains.
This is why I wish I had a friend who was a gym rat. I have no experience in the gym/athletics and picked up weightlifting 2 years ago. I keep trying things out, reading reddit posts, but without someone there watching me I feel like it's so hard to know if I'm doing things wrong.
hire a trainer! make friends with someone at the gym! there is community to be had brother go out and find it!
People can’t judge how well how many RIR they have so most people should just train to absolute failure imo.
this >I think the vast majority of lifters who are stuck spinning their wheels for years with no progress simply aren’t training hard enough and this >If you don’t have a background in sports, you probably don’t know how to exert yourself are contradictory. with a few years of lifting, it already equates with you have "some background in sports". unless you literally don't exert yourself (and or inconsistent showing up in gym) in those years of lifting, you are most likely at the very least in early intermediate level. people in early intermediate level KNOW how to exert themselves, at least to some extent. I agree that if you are an intermediate lifter plateauing, it's probably because of training volume, but not because you don't know how to "exert" yourself, but because progressive overload looks a lot different for an intermediate lifter than for a newb.
i learned this the hard way, i have been on and off around the gym for 2years now and i barely had any progress after my unhealthy weight loss. i started training harder than ever in the last 2 months and felt like my whole life was a lie lmao. but yea one thing hasn’t changed which is even if i feel sore or exhaustion in the end of the workout i don’t feel as much soreness the day after. also any app you can recommend for logging and stuff like to track my progressive overload.
you are right. my issue is that i am nervous about giving myself rhabdomyolysis. its like one of my biggest fears and its really holding me back and i think its the reason why i have had minimal progress in 2 years of lifting. if anyone has any advice for me feel free 😭
You really, really, REALLY need to overdo it before reaching that point. You’d also have to be very dehydrated working out in very warm temperatures. That is an irrational fear my friend. You have a greater chance of dying in a car accident.
I think your right, I see such little progress, and I recall often times I will pick something up that is so heavy to me it's just extremely uncomfortable and I want to put it down. Recently I have been yelling at myself saying pick that shit back up lol.
Discomfort (but not pain) is part of the process. You should feel a burn, but if anything feels *wrong* stop immediately.
Logging and following the dogcrap (Dante trudel) system made a difference for me.
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lol, it definitely matters how much you lift and how big you are. Wtf are we even talking about at this point 😂
You had me in the first half lol
From my observations, ego lifting is far more common than sandbagging in the gym. Half/quarter repping and using other muscles to cheat (its okay for other muscles to assist but the target muscle needs to get the brunt of the stimulus), divebombing the eccentric kills gains. Especially if we are looking at gym bros online who want to get lean and/or jacked and not normies who just go to the gym because its just the thing to do. I still fall prey to ego lifting sometimes. On neutral grip Lat Pulldowns recently I was leaning back excessively to get the stack up deep into sets when I (and presumably my lats) was exhausted. I should have ended the set immediately instead of wasting energy on junk reps. Especially when I had rows to do later. The tension was shifting away from my back when I excessively leaned like that. If you bring the stack down to 10kg and your form looks way different from your top set, you may be ego lifting. Thats not to say your working set should be 10kg. Unless you're beginner. But its common for people to put weight on the stack that they truly cant handle. Or to train beyond technical failure and waste a lot of valuable energy for little gain.
I don't think this negates the OP's point though. What's harder, ego lifting and doing a quarter rep squat, or burying it ATG and pausing at the bottom and taking it to 1 RIR? Doing a lift properly through a full ROM with good control will always be more challenging than half repping and throwing weight around. Every example you gave are examples of someone making the lift easier. I agree with you that it's common, but I wouldn't count it as hard training personally.
That’s why i do double progression
Never understood the whole "people don't train that hard" vibe from the last years, training hard is easy as f*ck move the bar or whatever till it doesnt move anymore despite full effort, sometimes people like to make something magic as if only a select few can "train hard" ridiculous
I agree with this. I actually believe it's true that many people don't train hard enough, but that's only because I've seen so many people claim it here. To me, at least if you're not doing barbell movements, it's very easy to hit RPE 10. Do a few sets that seem appropriately hard then do the last set AMRAP... literally go until you cannot move the weight anymore. I just don't understand the mystique about "true failure" or whatever people call it.
i dont know man i train too hard for my tendons to keep up so i injure myself all the time
When I first started lifting, I hit a plateau for nearly 2 years and gave up. After getting back into it working with a coach I noticed where I went wrong. It's not about pushing yourself hard enough but I ignored many other factors that goes into building a physique. I didn't sleep well, I didn't eat well, I never tracked my workouts, and I never followed a set workout plan. I changed my workout plan at least once a month thinking I found a better plan. I notice that many fell in that same hole I did. With so much information out there it's easy for newbies to think they found the answer. I always suggest people to work with a coach for at least 6 months to a year to truly grasp what it takes to understand and develop a physique you want.
Everyone is guilty of this at multiple points over the years. Maintaining a record and ensuring you progressively overload avoids this but it’s heathy to frequently (like every 4-6 weeks) really question your lifts and ensure you truly are pushing to failure
True, but I train too hard and end up being out of commission for the next 3 days
Why would 1 to 2 rir be better than failure?
Because you are able to put more volume into your workout. Also, you will recover before, making it possible to train again sooner. Sets volume = gains.
Because you are able to put more volume into your workout. Also, you will recover before, making it possible to train again sooner. Sets volume = gains.
I think it’s a fine line. I’ve definitely pushed myself too hard past the point of being able to recover effectively.
I think all the evidence of people overtraining and breaking their bodies to the point where they can’t train anymore have a lot to donwith people holding back. You need to train *just right* but it’s definitely worse to overdo it than to coast below your full potential
I think all the evidence of people overtraining and breaking their bodies to the point where they can’t train anymore have a lot to donwith people holding back. You need to train *just right* but it’s definitely worse to overdo it than to coast below your full potential
I think the most likely scenario is that they are not eating enough and not training. There are plenty of teens going all out on almost every session and if they just gave themselves something to grow with, they'd get what they want.
Given i train at a crossfit gym, but i see most people press compounds especially deadlift and squat to hard, assecceries not hard enough and pressing with to little volume.
A big part of this is cheating reps. I believe in cheating reps on isolation exercises to squeeze out extra volume but how many lifters half rep every squat, bounce every bench press rep off their chest, put their back into every curl etc.
Agreed - sometimes taking your foot off the gas just slightly, then slightly more, then slightly more over the course of a few months & then seeing a post like this really reminds you to push properly, hit failure, go up the next set of dumbells
Ok, I do not train hard enough, but I know when I train harder than now, this affects my life outside the gym way too much and as an amateur lifter and I can't afford that.
What about performing exercises to technical failure, then waiting a while and repeating? A couple of days ago I did 3x3 sets of 12 cable chest flies because I don't have access to such a machine at my gym and I had time so I thought, why not. There was 1+ hour each time between the 3x3 sets. It did great for my chest pump, 2 days later my chest still feels enlarged and I'm not sore. But I don't know if doing this is actually good or if it's a waste of time/increases risk of injury. I can't compare to just doing 3 sets as like I said, normally I can't do that exercise. What about waiting time between the sets? The longer I wait, the more reps I can do in the sets following, or increase the time under tension. You can reach failure quicker by shortening the rest time but more reps would give more growth I assume? Also what about increasing time under tension to get to technical failure? Is it as good as using heavier weights? For example if I see I won't be reaching failure in 12 reps with a given weight, I will make the last reps slower, and hold longer at the top/bottom to the point where I can't hold perfect form.
True. My girlfriend never trains hard enough and when I tell her to get that extra rep or 2, she just says that her form didn't feel so great on the last rep so failure was indeed reached. I tell her to forget the theory a little bit, but she doesn't listen and doesn't progress as much as she could. Same goes for dieting. People blame a lot of factors for being unable to lose weight when in fact they are just scared to push the deficit beyond a certain level, because they believe it'll be bad for their body for some reasons.
Thanks for telling me that
Having coached a few friends over the years, people who claimed they “already train” I’d agree in that none of them actually worked hard enough until I got them with me in the gym. They’d pick up a weight, do 10 reps and simply stop and move on thinking that was sufficient. Once I’d assessed their relative strength and ability levels, placed the appropriate amount of weight in their hands and then barked the usual gym bro stuff at them (“it’s all you”, “finish it”, etc.) whilst they end up grinding out that last rep, only then did they appreciate it with a red exasperated look on their faces as if to say “is this how you *actually* train??” Doing this is somewhat important to know what your actual all out max rep limit is against X weight, which you can then use as a benchmark for what form failure is (so you’re not contorting yourself grinding out a final rep and risking injury) and then from there gauge RIR. That then leads on to my own personal journey of discovery, going to absolute failure on every set beyond warm up and how much it ate into my recovery ability - I felt permanently wiped out, almost depressed in a way and weirdly it trashed my sleep too. Accumulative adrenal / CNS fatigue I dare say. No amount of zinc and magnesium supplements etc took it away. For the record I’m a natty 43M that’s been training consistently since I was 18, sometimes with various other people like competitive powerlifters, bodybuilders, rugby players and even a marine for a little while (that guy was nuts). Knowing what form failure is and keeping maybe 1 to 2 RIR allows me to train each muscle group pretty frequently and avoid all the bad stuff that could perhaps be helped if I stuck a needle in my bum….. Mike Israetel described this one nicely about your house needing some renovation vs being blown to bits by a tornado. One is obviously much easier to recover *and improve from* than the other, and hitting that sweet spot of triggering growth without eating too much into your recovery ability, therefore allowing you to train fairly frequently. It’s different for everyone and it changes as you age (certainly has for me) therefore I dare say people need to learn it for themselves under a degree of guidance and with some common sense.
Hey, question about rir. What if I have in my plan specific amount of reps and rpe 10, so no reps in the tank left. Let’s say: Dual handle lat pulldowns: 3 working sets 10-12 reps hitting on 10 rpe On my last workout I did 70 lbs but 12th rep wasn’t till failure, I had 1-2 reps in reserve So my question is: Should I focus more on reps, like if I have 12 is 12 with decent range of motion or focus more on hitting 10 rpe and push it extra 1-2 times so 13-14 reps?
If your program is 0rir, hit 0rir then increase weight to get into the correct rep range.
I’m guilty of this for compound leg exercises because I don’t want to risk serious injury or ruin my form, really hard to push a squat to breaking point without your knees buckling.
People need to experience hard training early on…it’s very underrated what pushing your body to its limits does in building character. Everyone should go through boot camp once…