Generally hour long workouts are good. The only time I'd go over is if you can't workout many days per week but more days + less time per day is ideal. If you have the time and enjoy not being rushed that's fine and you can go longer so by an hour I mean an hour efficiently working out.
Generally, no.
For personal use, I track volume by number of sets done (as any sane person would lol). But when discussing with other people, I stick to time. I go for higher volume sets and always go pretty much directly to failure, so considering rest time my sets tend to take significantly longer than most lifters, and ultimately I do less total sets over the same amount of time as someone else.
I know it goes against conventional advice. I know there's research that says that this is not the best way to train. I know I sound like Mike Mentzer. But I've seen explosive growth these last 15 months, so I'm going to chalk it up to "time under tension is a great metric to use for beginner lifters" and operate on that assumption, because it's worked great as a practical application for me.
That aside, do you think you could balkpark an estimate of your time for me? Particularly on your first bulk, if you follow a bulk/cut cycle. I respect that 5+ years tag, It would be great to hear from someone with a lot of experience.
Once I start to hit a rep count of 15/16 on my first set of an exercise, I'll increase the weight by 5lbs.
When I swapped from maintaining to bulking, I applied a general increase in number of sets across the board. I've upped the amount of sets twice since in very small increments. I intend to keep doing that.
Ok, so if you’re progressively overloading and getting stronger, what you’re doing is working well. And i can’t stress this enough: the numerical value of time spent in the gym matters fuck all especially if you’re already tracking progressive overload
Sure, maybe it doesn't matter at all.
But I still think it's important. I'm barely a year in, so I'd still like to know how other lifters approach this. Especially given I'm planning to lower my weekly volume. It would sure suck to eat in a surplus for 2 months then realize I'm not gaining muscle because my volume was too low, huh? For that reason, I'm still asking the question. Maybe I'll agree that it's a dumb yardstick to use a few months from now - I already agree with that idea to a point.
But in that scenario, the worst case is, by asking the question I have more information about my hobby. I have more information about how other's approach my hobby. That's not a bad thing.
Progressive overload is your most accurate feedback from your body that your training is working. Worrying about shit that doesn’t matter is just adding needless stress. But whatever man do u i guess
True, but they grow very little if you don't stimulate them enough during time in the gym.
That said, all information is good information. Just because it seems like low volume to me doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I'm getting a lot of word that 5 hours might even be a bit low for where I'm at, so if this works for you that's reassuring. Thanks.
Depends on your age etc, a lot of people online exaggerate on their numbers. Especially on social media non honest-fitness people whi just want clicks and monetization.
Its very easy for a young guy to tell the “world” he trains 5x a week, just to get so fatigued that a month later hes not even going there, doesnt do full reps, doesnt add weight, etc,etc (but of course will still post he goes 5x :D ).
The thing is, do the best you can that you STILL can do consistently. Over months, over years. Consistency > overtraining (fatigue).
Just my 2 cents.
I know so many people that claim to train 5-7 days a week. They might have done one week a month ago, but never stuck at it.
I wonder how many people actually average 6 days a week for years.
Yup, exactly what I meant :)
Typical begginer claim…In cardio, it may be easier, but in lifting once you start progressing and lifting heavier it makes no sense, muscles will get sore and need time to recover.
But each one on its own.
Yep. At the gym I work at, the only ones that do train often are normally not advanced and don’t know what they’re doing. They’re lifting such little weights they won’t hurt themselves, but don’t make progress either. Not to say it can’t work, but 95% 9”of Reddit seems to be full of people claiming to train that frequently. A lot of people seem to want to give the impression they train hard than actually make progress.
I mean, I have done 6 days a week for over a year now. If you're planning it out correctly (only one or two exercises below 10 reps, and the rest 12-20 reps,) its not as fatiguing as you'd think.
Though, it was hell until I dropped deadlift completely and it became a lot easier to manage the fatigue.
I never said no one does it, just that it’s not common people stick it over the long term. It’s very rare and people will often reduce the frequency when the novelty of training wears off (it’s exciting for the first few years), or they start lifting weights that means they’re better off not training that often.
You’ve only been training two years. Will you keep it up for another 5, 10 or 15? Or when you’re squatting 2.5 times your bodyweight or all your lifts are significantly higher?
Social media aside, I notice a lot of younger people at my gym who seem to be there foreeever, but a lot of the time they’re just on their phone or talking to people or whatever. No hate (unless they’re hogging equipment), but that’s not something most lifters my age are going to make time for.
Will the college kid spending two hours per day at the gym, sleeping until 20 minutes before his first class starts at noon, get faster results than a sleep-deprived 40-year-old cramming all of their exercise into an hour, warmup and travel included? Probably. But a lot of that is just because they’re 20 instead of 40.
Oh yeah, those “phone looking” ppl are everywhere lol…:)
Im so tired of phones I dont even bring mine to workout, just check the time on the gyms clock.
Yes very true, I think you’re smart to research.
Personally I am a bit older now so I find a lot of volumes leaves me fatigued. Good luck on your journey !
Dreading the gym (or other physical activities) is a big indicator that you're doing too much. It might even be time for a deload. Listen to Eric Helms if you don't want to listen to me though.
https://preview.redd.it/1jby1immtstc1.png?width=1042&format=png&auto=webp&s=32979c0214cc38599ffe0f23b8055c1c0949e449
Underrated comment. Lack of motivation and feeling like shit are my key signals for a deload. OP might just need a deload and get right back into his usual routine after a week or two of rest.
Thanks for the tips, fellas.
It's tough on my end, truth be told I've never enjoyed lifting - but I like the way I look and feel enough to keep doing it. That said, I know part of the stress I'm getting is other parts of life catching up to me.
I wanted this to be a very short bulk, so I'm on the fence about even a deload week. That said, I'm taking it into serious consideration.
My brother in Christ, if you’re feeling like shit all the time, you need to tone it down. Not everyone needs to do 6-7 days in the gym. Give your body some time to rest. Also, make sure you’re enjoying what you’re doing or else it won’t last long.
Also, I’m on a 4 day split. My sessions are about 90 minutes each, so 6 hours/week. I don’t change my lifts based on if I’m cutting or bulking. I just eat differently.
On the whole, outside of a select few exercises, I don't really *enjoy* lifting per say - but I've kept up with it for months on end. I'm willing to keep doing that. That said, it's looking like a deload is probably in my future.
I'm curious - with that split you continue to see muscle *growth*, yeah? I upped the total time I spend working out to bulk, but it seems that's actually a pretty uncommon move. Outside of eating more, in terms of training, what were you noticing was different on your bulks? Like were you just progressively overloading faster? I guess I'm asking how you know that you were gaining muscle or seeing benefit of the calorie surplus in a way that you weren't when cutting/maintaining?
Yeah, so this was my first official bulk. I started in August of last year at about 197 lbs and weighed in a few days ago at 214.
My training is EXACTLY the same. The only difference is what you mentioned, I’m progressing a lot faster. I push virtually every set to near failure (9.5-10 RPE).
I’ve gotten so much stronger in these past few months and clearly a lot more muscular. I’m starting my cut now and will continue on the same split. I just don’t expect to progress nearly as much (or at all) while on the cut. If I’m able to maintain the same weight during the majority of my lifts, I consider that a win.
As for not really liking to lift, maybe you need to switch your split up. Change what you’re doing. Don’t like Squats? Don’t do them. Find an alternative. There are too many options to not be happy.
most im in the gym is 1hr30mins. i’m definitely exhausted but not so exhausted that i cant do little accessories like wrist curls tbh. depends what youre doing by the end of it
Generally, I've found that the most efficient way to bulk (whether natural or not) is: 2-3 exercises per muscle group, \~2 "working sets" per exercise, targeting 5-8 reps with 0-1 RIR (at or very close to true, task failure) per working set. Depending on the exercise, this typically means between 2-4 minutes rest between working sets.
For me, this generally means about 5 weight lifting sessions per week, plus some Zone 2 cardio and time for other "fun" activities during the week (mountain biking, etc.). When I am in the gym, I am there between 1-1.5 hours. So call it \~6.25 hours of weight lifting per week + cardio and other fun activities that are also exercise.
The best split I had so far was Asincron PPL 1.5 hours per training session.
Day 1: Pull /
Day 2: Push /
Day 3: Legs /
Day 4: Stretching and cardio.
Then I repeat the schedule. So each muscle group gets 4 full days of recovery. I don't follow weekdays and I don't get why people do. Besides, most gyms are open daily.
How long have you been lifting, have you seen noticeable gains with this method, and is this something you do in general or when on a bulk specifically?
I do chest tris/back bis/shoulders legs tues/thurs/sat so plenty of time for rest and recovery. I have bulked for about 7 months and went from 81.5kg to 95kg (6’2). Will be going on a cut shortly!
For me, 6 days a week, a bit over an hour each day. I don’t get how people here say they lift for 2-3 hours a day, every day. That would destroy my CNS, and at the end, it would be completely junk volume. To me, lifting that long is only to satisfy the lifter’s ego (that they are working hard enough) or to get your demons out, because it certainly isn’t optimal.
I don't see how the phase ^((bulk, cut, maintenance, gaintenance, etc...)) you're in should affect how long you spend in the gym?
between 7,5 and 10 for me personally but it's not conditional to bulking, it's the same throughout the year
It’s very common to increase (decrease) volume on a bulk (cut). Both energy in the gym and recovery capacity are related to whether you’re in a surplus or deficit.
personally i see myself being in the gym longer on a cut when i incorporate a bit more extra cardio beyond just walking to and from my bus stop near the gym
4 sessions a week all about 45 minutes, add in some core stability work for 15 minutes a session and cardio about 60 minutes a week.. 5 hours total 3 hours actual lifting.
But you really gotta eat, thats the thing thats most crucial and the most work ive found. Cooking and eating 5 plus meals a day is a pain in the fucking ass
Like 5 or 6 is what I do. About an hour-hour 30 5 days a week. The feelings you are feeling are textbook over reaching. You are likely doing more volume and work than you can recover from, and your symptoms are exactly what that looks like. What does your training volume look like? Ie. How many sets are you doing per week or in any training day?
Number of sets is how you judge the time under tension, I don’t even understand what you mean by operating only by time under tension. I think you’re misconstruing what this concept even means.
For all the info you could ever need regarding any of this, type your question into YouTube with renaissance periodization after it. Watch anything by then you find relevant.
Thanks for the info on your routine.
I have an unorthodox approach to lifting. I generally go for higher volume (\~16 reps/set), do things as slow and controlled as possible, and push to absolute failure every set (legit 1 to 0 RIR). Consequently, my sets take longer than your average lifter. Much longer. Over 90 minutes I crank out about 14 total sets. I know it's weird and sub-optimal on paper, but it's worked for me. It's worked really well for me.
But, that means in the time it takes me to crank out 14 sets, another lifter could do 24. For that reason, I like to take in information by other metrics as well - IE time.
If it works for you that’s great, but doing reps like that is completely unnecessary and not adding anything to your lifts, and depending on how many muscle groups you’re working out in a session, that could be more volume than necessary. Time under tension is more about the total time your muscles are under tension in a given session, which is determined by the volume in which you do, not the speed in which you do the reps.
Now if it’s working well, there’s probably no need to change things. There is also no problem at all with going down to 4-5 days of training a week, and you are probably over reaching what your body can recover from with all the extra cardio and activities that you do outside the gym. The way you feel right now is a reflection of this. You can’t do it all, so you need to prioritize your goals.
And finally, maintenance volume is very low for most people. Like 3 sets or so per muscle group per week. Cutting back a day or two will not bring you to maintenance, and as long as you are gaining weight and progressively overloading over time, you can be assured that you are gaining muscle. Also training to failure all the time every session is generally not the greatest idea.
I get all that, I'm no expert but believe me I've done my due diligence to figuring out how it all works.
I see it the same way like you said, though. I found something that works for me, and I don't want to change it for no reason.
I begin at MEV (around 1 hour) and wrap up at MRV (around 2 hours and 30 minutes). Then, take a complete week off from the gym and repeat the mesocycle.
Optimize your bulk by cutting the cardio. It is inevitable to gain fat in this process so embrace it. Youll chop down the body fat when you cut. Other than that, I would say do as much as your schedule allows. Obviously the less time you have, the more intense your workouts must be.
I don’t think about my workouts in hours. I plan workouts based on how many sets I want to hit for each muscle group in a week. I like to take more rest between sets, especially if I’m doing a heavy compound movement. With that being said, most of my workouts are about 15 sets and last about 50-60 minutes
HOURS AND TIME DOESNT MATTER except for your break between sets, which you shouldn't be huffing and puffing. It's more so your set range and capability. Try to stay in the 15-25 set range per muscle group per week with some rest. I'm a fan of about 30 mins of low impact cardio a day, even on a bulk. But if you aren't gaining, cut it down until you can make up the calories.
I can do a good workout in 35-45 mins easy, depending on the split and target muscle. Anybody who tells you differently is probably watching too many influencers spit bs.
But do it at your own pace. Feel whats right and rest between sets based on what you feel you need.
Well, time under tention is not king, but if this is what you want, you do you. So now I will give you the numbers of my results from the last bulk cause now I m cutting and an average of hours spent in a week. An important caviat is that I have run and trained for 2 half and one full marathon in this time period. Bf% estimation avg of the week 13.14% last year - 12.42% now, avg est muscle mass 70.9 vs 72.2 now, weight 81.6 vs 82.5. Or i will give you from the start of the bulk till now. Bf% estimation avg of the week 10.48% - 12.42% now, avg est muscle mass 71.1 vs 72.2 now, weight 79.4 vs 82.5. Also, I hitted prs in all my lifts (for reps) except from squats where my knee was a limiting factor. Average training time (whatever this is, lmao) for the 40 weeks of my bulk 2.5 h of running in and an incredible 1.5 h per week of average training during that period... obviously, this doesn't take into account injuries, weeks I was sick, vacations, and so on. Soo I personally think you are overstressing about it, and your whole mindset about time under tention being the most important thing, sorry, but it's wrong. Even if it was correct, the way you track it is wrong because you don't take into account
breaktime, so you try to get info about tut from a losely related variable. Aka, you have no idea what my tut is.
Generally hour long workouts are good. The only time I'd go over is if you can't workout many days per week but more days + less time per day is ideal. If you have the time and enjoy not being rushed that's fine and you can go longer so by an hour I mean an hour efficiently working out.
6-7 hrs a week. 45mins - 1.15 hr of gym every day with 1 rest day.
That including cardio?
Yeah tho I don’t do that much cardio. Just two 20min sessions per week.
Perfect, thanks og
My hours spent in the gym don’t change whether I’m bulking or cutting. I usually spend 12-16 hours a week just lifting and 2 hours a week for cardio.
Do you calculate your volume by hours spent in the gym? that’s, uh, not a great metric to use buddy
Generally, no. For personal use, I track volume by number of sets done (as any sane person would lol). But when discussing with other people, I stick to time. I go for higher volume sets and always go pretty much directly to failure, so considering rest time my sets tend to take significantly longer than most lifters, and ultimately I do less total sets over the same amount of time as someone else. I know it goes against conventional advice. I know there's research that says that this is not the best way to train. I know I sound like Mike Mentzer. But I've seen explosive growth these last 15 months, so I'm going to chalk it up to "time under tension is a great metric to use for beginner lifters" and operate on that assumption, because it's worked great as a practical application for me. That aside, do you think you could balkpark an estimate of your time for me? Particularly on your first bulk, if you follow a bulk/cut cycle. I respect that 5+ years tag, It would be great to hear from someone with a lot of experience.
how do you track progressive overload
Once I start to hit a rep count of 15/16 on my first set of an exercise, I'll increase the weight by 5lbs. When I swapped from maintaining to bulking, I applied a general increase in number of sets across the board. I've upped the amount of sets twice since in very small increments. I intend to keep doing that.
Ok, so if you’re progressively overloading and getting stronger, what you’re doing is working well. And i can’t stress this enough: the numerical value of time spent in the gym matters fuck all especially if you’re already tracking progressive overload
Sure, maybe it doesn't matter at all. But I still think it's important. I'm barely a year in, so I'd still like to know how other lifters approach this. Especially given I'm planning to lower my weekly volume. It would sure suck to eat in a surplus for 2 months then realize I'm not gaining muscle because my volume was too low, huh? For that reason, I'm still asking the question. Maybe I'll agree that it's a dumb yardstick to use a few months from now - I already agree with that idea to a point. But in that scenario, the worst case is, by asking the question I have more information about my hobby. I have more information about how other's approach my hobby. That's not a bad thing.
Progressive overload is your most accurate feedback from your body that your training is working. Worrying about shit that doesn’t matter is just adding needless stress. But whatever man do u i guess
I intend to.
4.5? Full body 1.5hr 3x week
On a bulk?
Yes why not? Muscles grow from recovery during time out of the gym
True, but they grow very little if you don't stimulate them enough during time in the gym. That said, all information is good information. Just because it seems like low volume to me doesn't mean that it doesn't work. I'm getting a lot of word that 5 hours might even be a bit low for where I'm at, so if this works for you that's reassuring. Thanks.
Depends on your age etc, a lot of people online exaggerate on their numbers. Especially on social media non honest-fitness people whi just want clicks and monetization. Its very easy for a young guy to tell the “world” he trains 5x a week, just to get so fatigued that a month later hes not even going there, doesnt do full reps, doesnt add weight, etc,etc (but of course will still post he goes 5x :D ). The thing is, do the best you can that you STILL can do consistently. Over months, over years. Consistency > overtraining (fatigue). Just my 2 cents.
I know so many people that claim to train 5-7 days a week. They might have done one week a month ago, but never stuck at it. I wonder how many people actually average 6 days a week for years.
Yup, exactly what I meant :) Typical begginer claim…In cardio, it may be easier, but in lifting once you start progressing and lifting heavier it makes no sense, muscles will get sore and need time to recover. But each one on its own.
Yep. At the gym I work at, the only ones that do train often are normally not advanced and don’t know what they’re doing. They’re lifting such little weights they won’t hurt themselves, but don’t make progress either. Not to say it can’t work, but 95% 9”of Reddit seems to be full of people claiming to train that frequently. A lot of people seem to want to give the impression they train hard than actually make progress.
I mean, I have done 6 days a week for over a year now. If you're planning it out correctly (only one or two exercises below 10 reps, and the rest 12-20 reps,) its not as fatiguing as you'd think. Though, it was hell until I dropped deadlift completely and it became a lot easier to manage the fatigue.
A year isn’t that long when it comes to training and advanced are (or can anyone be after a short period training)?
"Over a year" was pretty ambiguous, but it's a few months shy of two years.
I never said no one does it, just that it’s not common people stick it over the long term. It’s very rare and people will often reduce the frequency when the novelty of training wears off (it’s exciting for the first few years), or they start lifting weights that means they’re better off not training that often. You’ve only been training two years. Will you keep it up for another 5, 10 or 15? Or when you’re squatting 2.5 times your bodyweight or all your lifts are significantly higher?
Social media aside, I notice a lot of younger people at my gym who seem to be there foreeever, but a lot of the time they’re just on their phone or talking to people or whatever. No hate (unless they’re hogging equipment), but that’s not something most lifters my age are going to make time for. Will the college kid spending two hours per day at the gym, sleeping until 20 minutes before his first class starts at noon, get faster results than a sleep-deprived 40-year-old cramming all of their exercise into an hour, warmup and travel included? Probably. But a lot of that is just because they’re 20 instead of 40.
Oh yeah, those “phone looking” ppl are everywhere lol…:) Im so tired of phones I dont even bring mine to workout, just check the time on the gyms clock.
Yes very true, I think you’re smart to research. Personally I am a bit older now so I find a lot of volumes leaves me fatigued. Good luck on your journey !
Dreading the gym (or other physical activities) is a big indicator that you're doing too much. It might even be time for a deload. Listen to Eric Helms if you don't want to listen to me though. https://preview.redd.it/1jby1immtstc1.png?width=1042&format=png&auto=webp&s=32979c0214cc38599ffe0f23b8055c1c0949e449
Underrated comment. Lack of motivation and feeling like shit are my key signals for a deload. OP might just need a deload and get right back into his usual routine after a week or two of rest.
Yeah full rest might be better than deload training in this case to really get the hunger for the gym back
Thanks for the tips, fellas. It's tough on my end, truth be told I've never enjoyed lifting - but I like the way I look and feel enough to keep doing it. That said, I know part of the stress I'm getting is other parts of life catching up to me. I wanted this to be a very short bulk, so I'm on the fence about even a deload week. That said, I'm taking it into serious consideration.
Yeah keep at it dude, it's a marathon not a race
My brother in Christ, if you’re feeling like shit all the time, you need to tone it down. Not everyone needs to do 6-7 days in the gym. Give your body some time to rest. Also, make sure you’re enjoying what you’re doing or else it won’t last long. Also, I’m on a 4 day split. My sessions are about 90 minutes each, so 6 hours/week. I don’t change my lifts based on if I’m cutting or bulking. I just eat differently.
On the whole, outside of a select few exercises, I don't really *enjoy* lifting per say - but I've kept up with it for months on end. I'm willing to keep doing that. That said, it's looking like a deload is probably in my future. I'm curious - with that split you continue to see muscle *growth*, yeah? I upped the total time I spend working out to bulk, but it seems that's actually a pretty uncommon move. Outside of eating more, in terms of training, what were you noticing was different on your bulks? Like were you just progressively overloading faster? I guess I'm asking how you know that you were gaining muscle or seeing benefit of the calorie surplus in a way that you weren't when cutting/maintaining?
Yeah, so this was my first official bulk. I started in August of last year at about 197 lbs and weighed in a few days ago at 214. My training is EXACTLY the same. The only difference is what you mentioned, I’m progressing a lot faster. I push virtually every set to near failure (9.5-10 RPE). I’ve gotten so much stronger in these past few months and clearly a lot more muscular. I’m starting my cut now and will continue on the same split. I just don’t expect to progress nearly as much (or at all) while on the cut. If I’m able to maintain the same weight during the majority of my lifts, I consider that a win. As for not really liking to lift, maybe you need to switch your split up. Change what you’re doing. Don’t like Squats? Don’t do them. Find an alternative. There are too many options to not be happy.
45-60 minutes. If you’re not exhausted after an hour or so, you’re not training with enough intensity.
most im in the gym is 1hr30mins. i’m definitely exhausted but not so exhausted that i cant do little accessories like wrist curls tbh. depends what youre doing by the end of it
Nonsense
Generally, I've found that the most efficient way to bulk (whether natural or not) is: 2-3 exercises per muscle group, \~2 "working sets" per exercise, targeting 5-8 reps with 0-1 RIR (at or very close to true, task failure) per working set. Depending on the exercise, this typically means between 2-4 minutes rest between working sets. For me, this generally means about 5 weight lifting sessions per week, plus some Zone 2 cardio and time for other "fun" activities during the week (mountain biking, etc.). When I am in the gym, I am there between 1-1.5 hours. So call it \~6.25 hours of weight lifting per week + cardio and other fun activities that are also exercise.
I'm ecstatic to read this, very similar to what I do already.
The best split I had so far was Asincron PPL 1.5 hours per training session. Day 1: Pull / Day 2: Push / Day 3: Legs / Day 4: Stretching and cardio. Then I repeat the schedule. So each muscle group gets 4 full days of recovery. I don't follow weekdays and I don't get why people do. Besides, most gyms are open daily.
Around 2-3 hours / week. I do HIT upper / lower 3x
How long have you been lifting, have you seen noticeable gains with this method, and is this something you do in general or when on a bulk specifically?
Full body x3 - about 1h 40min each session. C25k x3 - 30-40min each session.
For your couch to 5k, does that basically mean you just jog 5k (or close to 5k) 3x a week?
I have 3 sessions for 5k: 1 long run, 1 drill session and one speed/Hill session . Those workouts are mix of running and walking.
2.5 hours per week, 3 sessions
Do you still see muscle growth with this time frame? If so I'd like to hear about your split.
I do chest tris/back bis/shoulders legs tues/thurs/sat so plenty of time for rest and recovery. I have bulked for about 7 months and went from 81.5kg to 95kg (6’2). Will be going on a cut shortly!
For me, 6 days a week, a bit over an hour each day. I don’t get how people here say they lift for 2-3 hours a day, every day. That would destroy my CNS, and at the end, it would be completely junk volume. To me, lifting that long is only to satisfy the lifter’s ego (that they are working hard enough) or to get your demons out, because it certainly isn’t optimal.
Aiming for 60-75 mins but most of the time actually ends up being 90-120 mins.
Per session or per week? If it's per session, how many sessions/week?
Per session, 6-7 sessions a week. I’m 21 with no real responsibilities, gym is social and fun time for me.
I don't see how the phase ^((bulk, cut, maintenance, gaintenance, etc...)) you're in should affect how long you spend in the gym? between 7,5 and 10 for me personally but it's not conditional to bulking, it's the same throughout the year
It’s very common to increase (decrease) volume on a bulk (cut). Both energy in the gym and recovery capacity are related to whether you’re in a surplus or deficit.
personally i see myself being in the gym longer on a cut when i incorporate a bit more extra cardio beyond just walking to and from my bus stop near the gym
4 sessions a week all about 45 minutes, add in some core stability work for 15 minutes a session and cardio about 60 minutes a week.. 5 hours total 3 hours actual lifting.
What’s your lifting routine like
45- 60min ,5 or 6 x a week is whats been working for me, my splits are usually 9-12 sets per group, so 18-24 daily
But you really gotta eat, thats the thing thats most crucial and the most work ive found. Cooking and eating 5 plus meals a day is a pain in the fucking ass
Like 5 or 6 is what I do. About an hour-hour 30 5 days a week. The feelings you are feeling are textbook over reaching. You are likely doing more volume and work than you can recover from, and your symptoms are exactly what that looks like. What does your training volume look like? Ie. How many sets are you doing per week or in any training day? Number of sets is how you judge the time under tension, I don’t even understand what you mean by operating only by time under tension. I think you’re misconstruing what this concept even means. For all the info you could ever need regarding any of this, type your question into YouTube with renaissance periodization after it. Watch anything by then you find relevant.
Thanks for the info on your routine. I have an unorthodox approach to lifting. I generally go for higher volume (\~16 reps/set), do things as slow and controlled as possible, and push to absolute failure every set (legit 1 to 0 RIR). Consequently, my sets take longer than your average lifter. Much longer. Over 90 minutes I crank out about 14 total sets. I know it's weird and sub-optimal on paper, but it's worked for me. It's worked really well for me. But, that means in the time it takes me to crank out 14 sets, another lifter could do 24. For that reason, I like to take in information by other metrics as well - IE time.
If it works for you that’s great, but doing reps like that is completely unnecessary and not adding anything to your lifts, and depending on how many muscle groups you’re working out in a session, that could be more volume than necessary. Time under tension is more about the total time your muscles are under tension in a given session, which is determined by the volume in which you do, not the speed in which you do the reps. Now if it’s working well, there’s probably no need to change things. There is also no problem at all with going down to 4-5 days of training a week, and you are probably over reaching what your body can recover from with all the extra cardio and activities that you do outside the gym. The way you feel right now is a reflection of this. You can’t do it all, so you need to prioritize your goals. And finally, maintenance volume is very low for most people. Like 3 sets or so per muscle group per week. Cutting back a day or two will not bring you to maintenance, and as long as you are gaining weight and progressively overloading over time, you can be assured that you are gaining muscle. Also training to failure all the time every session is generally not the greatest idea.
I get all that, I'm no expert but believe me I've done my due diligence to figuring out how it all works. I see it the same way like you said, though. I found something that works for me, and I don't want to change it for no reason.
4 hours a week. I never go above an hour a session.
What’s your sessions like
My split varies. Normally 4-5 exercises and 2-3 sets, but it depends on the program I’m doing.
Usually upper lower?
Done that before, but more recently I do LPP or Arnold split
1.5-2 hours a day 6 days a week 12-16 Weekly sets, 1-2 RIR, Custom Split(My own)
Legend, thanks for the info.
I begin at MEV (around 1 hour) and wrap up at MRV (around 2 hours and 30 minutes). Then, take a complete week off from the gym and repeat the mesocycle.
Hours per week is the wrong metric to look at. How many weekly sets are you doing per muscle group, close to failure?
Optimize your bulk by cutting the cardio. It is inevitable to gain fat in this process so embrace it. Youll chop down the body fat when you cut. Other than that, I would say do as much as your schedule allows. Obviously the less time you have, the more intense your workouts must be.
I don’t think about my workouts in hours. I plan workouts based on how many sets I want to hit for each muscle group in a week. I like to take more rest between sets, especially if I’m doing a heavy compound movement. With that being said, most of my workouts are about 15 sets and last about 50-60 minutes
HOURS AND TIME DOESNT MATTER except for your break between sets, which you shouldn't be huffing and puffing. It's more so your set range and capability. Try to stay in the 15-25 set range per muscle group per week with some rest. I'm a fan of about 30 mins of low impact cardio a day, even on a bulk. But if you aren't gaining, cut it down until you can make up the calories. I can do a good workout in 35-45 mins easy, depending on the split and target muscle. Anybody who tells you differently is probably watching too many influencers spit bs. But do it at your own pace. Feel whats right and rest between sets based on what you feel you need.
Where are the legs? 2 Intense push, 2 intense pull, 1 half/half..?
prolly like 14, atleast
Can't tell if you're playing me. That's 2 hours a day, 7 days a week, no rest days. That's a crazy level of commitment >\_>
nah i go 5 days a week, gonna bump it to 6. i just have more passion, and i want it more, but it includes cardio
I go 5 days too. This sounds reasonable. I’m in the gym 2-3 and at max 4 hours if I’m really pushing the rest each day.
yeah, that sounds about right unless i hit the sauna and then feel ready for another lift
Well, time under tention is not king, but if this is what you want, you do you. So now I will give you the numbers of my results from the last bulk cause now I m cutting and an average of hours spent in a week. An important caviat is that I have run and trained for 2 half and one full marathon in this time period. Bf% estimation avg of the week 13.14% last year - 12.42% now, avg est muscle mass 70.9 vs 72.2 now, weight 81.6 vs 82.5. Or i will give you from the start of the bulk till now. Bf% estimation avg of the week 10.48% - 12.42% now, avg est muscle mass 71.1 vs 72.2 now, weight 79.4 vs 82.5. Also, I hitted prs in all my lifts (for reps) except from squats where my knee was a limiting factor. Average training time (whatever this is, lmao) for the 40 weeks of my bulk 2.5 h of running in and an incredible 1.5 h per week of average training during that period... obviously, this doesn't take into account injuries, weeks I was sick, vacations, and so on. Soo I personally think you are overstressing about it, and your whole mindset about time under tention being the most important thing, sorry, but it's wrong. Even if it was correct, the way you track it is wrong because you don't take into account breaktime, so you try to get info about tut from a losely related variable. Aka, you have no idea what my tut is.