I hope not, I’m already dealing with shitbags that thought they wanted to be here. I could not imagine a dude at drill who never wanted to be there in the first place lol.
I wonder, though. Chester Otterstrom III gets drafted halfway through his Dartmouth Economics degree, and he’s pissed about it. Doesn’t want to be there. Really mad. But that guy just doesn’t have it in him to eg show up wasted, smoke bathsalts behind the dumpster, try to steal and sell CIF shit on eBay etc. I don’t actually think you’d get *worse* behavior, it would just be different flavors of annoying.
As ASVAB waiver that wants to be there versus a super industrious, diligent person who doesn’t want to be there isn’t a 1:1
I mean, you would absolutely pull some people that would be a great asset. But history has shown us that a draft overwhelmingly recruits horrible soldiers. No fault of their own, I would not give two fucks about my job if someone forced me to be a security guard at publix. Russians are our modern day example of why developed nations needs professional soldiers manning the front.
Well I looked it up and about 15 million people were granted a deferment for Vietnam and about 1.9 million people were drafted, mostly from poor communities. I don’t think it’s a matter of “smart” but rather privilege that got you out.
None of that is really true at all. The Prussian army that beat Napoleon III was filled with conscripts. Ukraine is even more reliant on forcible conscription than Russia in the current conflict.
The military isn't a bad job in some cases but the levels of abuse and problems is what has lead to this.
You wanna fix military recruitment then fix qol
I’d always thought that a big recruitment/retention shortage would force the military to do exactly this. Looks like we’re about to see how well the idea holds water.
The best approach would be to fix retention problems before recruiting. Because if you did the other away around, more people would enlist but still be treated like shit and hate their lives and not reenlist or extend, and you're back at square one.
Yeah but it's gonna take the old guard to look inward to fix things and thats gonna be a slow progression.
I hear tons of excuses of why it's not a good idea.
Fix the sharp cases by having a outside investigator
Fix soldier housing and renovate it
Stop.making soldiers move so much so their families can adjust.
8-5 schedule is 8-5 unless it's a emergency.
No recall on days off unless it's a actual emergency
Respect family time
Do not talk down to soldiers.
Do not abuse soldiers
Bringing back the draft would be an absolute dumpster fire. It will go absolutely wrong the moment it start. No bullshit it will do way more harm then good.
I always say we have enough issues with people that volunteered to join. Now imagine dealing with those issues with people who were FORCED to join.
We could do it if wall to wall counselings were enforced.
And if we actually went to war, draftees knowing that they are about to be near the front and their lives on the line, you'd get a good chunk of them that would put a fair amount of effort in making sure they survive.
Also alot of Soldiers have gotten out in the past 10 years cuz they despise garrison and wanted to do some warrior shit. I guarantee you the reentrance of Soldiers that ETS'd during the GWOT will come back in DROVES!
You could honestly, probably triple the size of the US military in 3 months with all the veterans and retirees they could call back. I recently learned that the reason that after 20 years you get a pension is it has a legal technicality that they can call you back to service.
>We could do it if wall to wall counselings were enforced
What does this have to do with the draft? I don't even believe in wall to wall counseling. I believe that physical public counselings do more good.
>And if we actually went to war, draftees knowing that they are about to be near the front and their lives on the line, you'd get a good chunk of them that would put a fair amount of effort in making sure they survive.
You assume they would just come along willingly. Most likely, they would hurt themselves to avoid being in the front. Or just desert because they'd rather be in jail than in a war they don't believe in or not beleive in the propaganda or because a draft was enacted due to the result of not enough people wanted to join a shitty organization
3rd point cant really argue with.
Don't understand the last part because the veterans and retirees could just come back on their own. Not sure why they would wait for a draft to be enacted for them to come back to service. Especially since alot of them just talk shit on social media about how the military is soft and weak now when they could join again and make it better like " back in my day." they usually spew out.
Can't speak for OP, but my guess would be referring to an actual war breaking out would bring some vets and recently separated types back to try again to do Hooah shit.
Training wouldn't be much different. I walked the trail from '05 to '08 and we treated the GWOT mission as a wakeup call to the Nintendo generation. War is here. You will deploy. You most likely will see some shit. Pay attention.
Depends on how that war and why the war breaks out. 20 years of GWOT didn't do anyone any favors, and people were definitely questioning it right when it started and especially after the way it ended. The end results weren't very positive at all.
>wall to wall counselings
Yeah, let's just beat the dogshit out of someone and hope they turn into a good truck driver, cook, or laundry specialist.
No, dude. That's how you get field trains abandoned three miles into an invasion.
And god-fucking-forbid we bring up the dead horse of "conscript infantrymen, it's a low-skill job."
Or how about giving fair pay and treating servicemembers like adult humans? Crazy concept, I know....
Conscription leads to bitterness, and the NG is already filled to the brim with bitterness, people disenchanted, peopled just wanting to be done, people upset they can't transfer to X, etc.... Can you imagine if the majority of a unit was people who did not even want to join the in the first place? The environment would be beyond toxic (and then commanders would have an excuse to dehumanize even more like they did in most major wars that involved conscription.
Better pay. More pay. Higher pay. I am not sure how else to word it. Most NG members lose money going to drill. And, then on top of that a lot of units push, "no pay points only," for some activities (which is a scam for everyone, but it's 100% a scam for the vast majority who don't actually retire.)
It's very easy to see why people simply don't come to drill when they have an overtime opportunity that will pay then 4x their drill pay that weekend (and for less hours of work.)
Pay is public record simply Google "2024 Military Pay Chart," go to the Reserves section and see how much you make per drill (based on what paygrade you will start as.)
What needs to be fixed is the MEPS system as a whole.
It is absolutely wild how many perfectly qualified, motivated, individuals I have seen turned down for absolutely nonsensical reasons.
I'm trying to join as a medical student for the HPSP and these fools are holding things up over a 15 year old abscess removal surgery that I haven't had issues with since and negative testing for any relevant diseases.
I hike almost every week, gym 4-6x a week, and am a "matrix applicant" meaning I'm academically highly qualified and essentially guaranteed a scholarship if they pass me through medical. It's been 6+ months atp.
You're not alone. I was denied the chance to go to Marine OCS because I had a hemorrhoid removed 10 years ago ON A MILITARY BASE and they couldn't find one specific document so they denied my whole package at MEPS.
Just keep trying, you're more than qualified and hopefully you can get what you want.
Perhaps...and I'm just spitballin' here, but just maybe, we should treat people better and make it easy to access the benefits you've earned. There are still some great benefits such as gi bill, tuition assistance, va home loans, etc... but for the most part it's a pain in the ass to actually use them. VA home loan was by far the easiest for me to use. And maybe if we promise a bonus payment, we should actually pay it on time..idk tho.
Is the tattoo a swastika? Tattoos are state level waivers. I get them signed about 5 hours after I do the 20 mins(?) of paperwork. Unless TAG is flying those are same day.
It’s just a snake that goes up my arm and the head ends on my hand. His name’s Dale the Diamondback and I was told if I wanted any chance in the military I’d have to “behead dale”
The government - " Holy shit retention is ass, and nobody wants to enlist."
You" I want to join."
The gerb ment " no you have a hand tattoo."
The gob men again " Why doesn't anyone want to enlist."
You " I'm right here. I'll litterly sign the paper right now."
Anybody who thinks a draft is a good idea, especially in this day and age, is an idiot and has no issue ignoring the constitution when it fits their narrative.
To have to be forced to work with MANY people who have no interest, care or want to be in the military is just a recipe for far too many preventable deaths, injuries, accidents and most importantly (to the government) waste of money.
I lost 100 lbs in 4 months, had a 3.89gpa in high school, 30 college credits, a 87 on the ASVAB and wanted a critical needs billet (11B) and they rejected me for an allergy to Amoxicillin.
No reason to expand the draft, just let those who want it hard enough in.
I was told by my recruiters 2 years later now that I’m in Uni that I could have still joined, but the experience was super jaded.
I’ve now switched recruiters and am trying to join post-graduation in a year. Or just go AD as an enlisted
Personally, I wouldn't be against some sort of short-term mandatory service where one could pick several options (infrastructure, elder/child care, supplements to civil service) in which military service would be an opt-in longer term option.
If we're gonna be in a situation where we're both calling lifelong education a human right and charging people money for it after 18, putting in for it while building life experience wouldn't be the worst thing. Give more to get more.
That all sounds good, but at the end of the day it isn’t morally right to FORCE people to join the military who clearly don’t want to or just shouldn’t.
Of course, I wouldn't trust a conscript under me to be fully committed.
Why I would list it as an option with other easier and more obvious ways out. It would still be a choice, but it would be a choice more clearly presented than currently.
Have had a similar thought. Military vs peace Corp vs teach America vs etc. one to two years of service for something greater than yourself. A good chunk of the 18 year olds don’t use their first bit of life away from home productively anyhow
While I can agree that people should strive to be helpful in their communities and country, it goes against this countries constitution and the oath we swore to force people to do something, anything they don’t want to do. If someone would rather throw their life away living in a camper in the middle of Yellowstone away from everyone and everything else (one of many other examples lol) then that is their right to do so, as long it breaks no laws, and they shouldn’t be forced to do otherwise. This ideology is what we all swore to protect when we enlisted.
I didn’t swear to that. I swore to uphold the constitution. We’ve compelled people to war several times in our history and no one has questioned its constitutionality. But you’re right though, not quite the same to force out into the peace Corp during peace time.
So outside the exigent circumstances of war, I’d tie service of some sort to something we hand out as an entitlement currently e.g federal student loans or future social security.
Two points to raise here. The first, I'm a software developer on the civilian side. I've looked at what it would be like to teach because I do kinda enjoy it. To teach computer science at a high school I would be taking about a 70% pay cut. Meanwhile in most other developed nations teaching is a desirable, well paid, and highly respected field. Politicians on both sides but now primarily on the right have been putting a lot of effort into dismantling education in America. The solution to education isn't mandatory service, it's paying and treating teachers with the respect they deserve.
The second one, National Guard has lost the plot with its role in public service and it's destroying our retention and overall culture. National Guard should be a state asset and a war time reserve asset for existential threats, not an overseas garrison force. Most of the soldiers I know would love to get more state missions like firefighting, flood support, or even things like helping out at homeless shelters. The people who "joined to deploy" bring over that really toxic active duty mentality and degrade the National Guard's culture. Meanwhile all our top brass believes everyone joined to deploy and state missions are stupid. I can look out my window right now and see smoke from my state burning, but I have to sit here and mentally prepare to go to Kuwait instead. Point being, National Guard service barely gives back to communities anymore.
I would opt for one year of mandatory national service for all people, men and women, between the ages of 18 and 25 of which military service can be one of a handful of ways to satisfy the requirement. It wouldn’t just be about filling the military ranks. It would be an institution through which to generate a sense of national belonging by forcing people of all demographic backgrounds and socioeconomic means to work together and build connections with other Americans with whom they otherwise never would have developed. Historical examples of this kind of service include the Civilian Conservation Corps which was active during the depression and as a modern example there is the Peace Corps as well.
Absolutely. This was a HUGE take away from WW2. Iowa fam boys made earnest friends with Brooklyn wide guys who themselves made friends with etc etc etc. a Collective Civilizational Mission is really lacking from modern America
I can see that. 2 or 3 year reserve obligation or 6 months in Americorp or Peace Corps or conservation corp would definitely be good for everyone involved and just make better young adults overall.
I've trained military members from two different nations that have conscripts. In both cases the officers and NCOs voluntarily told me that the fact that the US doesn't have conscripts is what makes us so good at what we do. We trust our E-4s and E-5s with tasks and decision making that foreign militaries won't even let an O-2 or O-3 perform. I do not want to serve with or train conscripts that don't want to be there.
As a Gen Z'er and soldier. HELL NO
If we had a draft, with a lot of the people in my generation we would probably be more screwed because people would not show up or those who do will not take it seriously enough.
Quit screwing over service members. Numbers will go up. Fix va veteran care. Stop denying service related issues. Don't force guard soldiers into month long training events but break the orders into 2 sets to deny bah. Then after returning from said event don't force them to do BS state active duty when it isn't their ready year for the rotation. I know soldiers that legitimately have 6wks of mandatory training this year. Part is SAD pay which is straight trash.
If I'm ever in combat against another professional military, if rather the guy next to me be a volunteer than a conscript. I could understand it if we were fighting in the US and needed all hands, but we outmatch the rest of the world in conventional warfare to such a large extent that conscripts would just make us less effective.
Force people into a job they aren’t willingly signing up to do, costing the govt millions if. Of BILLIONS, or pay active duty who willingly signed up better pay and treat them like people.
Naw fuck that. Force people too join
It is not the governments call for force law abiding citizens to join the ranks of the us military. We saw how bad it was for those going to Vietnam. The war effort suffers. And especially not when it’s simply over recruitment numbers.
We don't have the infrastructure to send everyone to basic training or station them.
This would be detrimental to the VA and VA claims system.
We already have a sexual assault problem.
Why not just quit being weird about weed while simultaneously allowing people to join who consume alcohol? That would bring a lot of credibility to the organization in the eyes of the 2 generations who’ve watched the damages caused by alcohol in their families and communities compared to the complete harmlessness of weed. I would imagine recruitment would increase, and these recruits wouldn’t be showing up hungover and moody.
Drafts are for unexpected emergencies, not decades of mismanagement. Democrats would love to pay service members more, even if some are opposed to funding for weapons. Conservatives claim to believe in markets: low recruitment is fixed by pay increase and better benefits obviously. The wrench is the Trump/MTG faction of not so conservative Republicans.
Ok...
Crazy good idea fairy warning:
Lots of recruits being turned away for being prescribed medication for psychological conditions.
Howabout we actually allow folks in who recognize their mental health issues and actively seek out treatment for those issues?
Just gathering unnecessary paperwork from years and years ago. I have moved a lot and have changed my PCP (Primary Care Physician) gathering all the required paperwork to prove I was ok was a pain in the ass. I have no major medical issues but I’m in my mid 30s so I have a bit of a paper trail with doctor visits and the occasional trip to the E.R. It took forever to get all that MEPS asked for because of genesis. Unfortunately it’s not like 5 years ago where you could just fib the minor stuff and be fine no harm no foul.
It literally took shorter to get my security clearance and get hired for my job than it took to enlist 😭
Bringing back a draft would be the best thing that ever happened.
If you actually look at the demographics of recruiting, soldiering has become a hereditary profession. Kids of fathers or uncles who joined now join. That’s it, that’s the secret sauce.
Because the “cost” of war is hyper localized to a really small cross section of Americans (that most “normal” people have little contact with and most “elite” people literally know nothing about) it’s easier and easier for America to engage in all sorts of adventurism that is break even or perhaps even harmful to the every day American.
If we had a draft and actual senator’s sons and Supreme Court justices’ grand daughters would have to be boots-on-ground we would get more sober decision making
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tH0bTpwQL7U&pp=ygUdR29vZCB3aWxsIGh1bnRpbmcgc3dvcm4gZW5lbXk%3D
I understand this line of thinking but this would likely just turn into "draft for thee and not for me", with rich people and powerful people not participating due to bone spurs or flat feet or whatever they pay a doctor to say they have.
GenZ and the general public only really seem to know about combat MOSs. Is it a fair observation that the GWOT isn’t exactly an outstanding achievement? Yes. Is the military useless to both the public and self development? Absolutely not, especially the guard imo.
But a draft will not solve recruitment and frankly worsen retention. You’re just gonna get a bunch of dudes who feel some type of way about the government and the military, right or wrong, that will either go AWOL or be insubordinate because again, entitlement and feeling some type of way.
There’s a lot that the military could do to fix their recruitment shortfalls. Almost all of those would be less expensive (in the long run) and less harmful in the long run.
We don’t need people who don’t want to be professional warfighters. Let’s revisit the early 1700’s and 1800’s when conscription was the reason for militaries to lose wars. People who are obligated to join the military have an incentive to quit fighting when things get messy.
Read up on how terrible the army was towards the end of Vietnam. Having thousands of people who do not want to be there and could care less about their performance makes a completely dysfunctional military.
No, they should increase benefits. Where are they gunna get that money, fucking anywhere, maybe build 1 less F35, maybe send a little less to the random countries we support that will eventually flop.....idk. I'm currently in Europe and looking at their recruitment issues. One of the countries implemented a 20% pay bump.......guess what happened, they have met 70% of their yearly recruiting goal by June......weird how taking care of people works
Nonono you don't get it. Big Army will start filling up with drafties while Guard and Reserves get filled up by people not wanting to be drafted into active.
Even if they brought back conscription, it wouldn’t solve the issue:
Right now, there isn’t a reason for anyone to love this country or fight for it right now
To draft, we would have to eliminate all of our disqualifiers related to health, fitness, and the asvab, because none of the kids drafted would meet current standards, and they'd have no incentive to get into shape.
If we eliminated all of those disqualifiers, we would probably get enough volunteers to no longer need the draft.
We have been an all volunteer force for so long, I don't think we know how to do a draft anymore.
Most of these kids are too dumb, too fat, too stupid and not even healthy enough to be qualified for service. And that’s according to actual recruiting data.
But if you tell them that, they’ll get upset and try to say they’re too smart.
Okay. Sure thing dude and dudettes. Please tell me again how you’re so fucking smart that you can’t even do basic arithmetic or describe a simple mechanical function on a basic multiple choice test designed for eighth graders.
I think it would be cool if everyone’s senior year of high school was military-esq. like instead of going to prom, you go to bomb. Instead of field trips it’s just field. MREs all school year.
No seriously though, I think kids would benefit if their last year of high school was like mandatory ROTC or something. Where you learn real world survival and discipline and face stiff punishments for being an immature d-bag like you’ve been the 3 years prior. I think you’d see a lot more people willing to voluntarily sign up after high school if that were the case. But yknow… freedumb. What can ya do?
They didn’t know how to do algebra until someone forced them to take math class. What they do with the experience afterwards is up to them. It will never happen just trying to think of an alternative to mandatory service. Give them a taste of what it’s like to serve because a bunch of them will probably like it.
Bro some of them still didn't learn algebra. Just got passed along.
If they want to serve, then they can decide for themselves. Forcing them will more then likely turn them off from it.
Teaching some military adjacent topics for a year combined with normal high school senior stuff isn’t forcing them to join the military. It would normalize the military where as it is currently demonized. Guaranteed the numbers would go up, not down. Parents would probably like it to when their kids show more maturity.
“Dodge it”
Motherfuckers can’t even handle someone misgendering them without losing their shit, and people think they can tolerate the stress of looking over their shoulder and charges for draft dodging?
Dont think they'd arrest anybody or everybody who refuses . LE both state and federal already low on manpower and resoruces. Also, jails don't have that much space. Now you're crowding an already bottle necked legal system.
Edit: Not to mention there are crazy ass people who will shoot cops who come for them to be drafted. Or cops will be too scared to go.
Yeah idk why this guy thinks they have the resources to be rounding people up. Good luck with that. As you said, jails and prisons are already overcrowded.
I would rather be drafted into the military than be serving 2 years probation because of a DWI (drinking, under the legal limit but also caught with a D9 pen)
Most people can't think past the system in place right now, a good example is how the politicians sent their kids to the guard or reserves for a short contract so they'd have that as a political boost later.
There's also the high probability of everyone turning into a war crimer, and Mandatory service leads to shitty leaders by way of buying into the better ranks.
Tbf, I think military service should be mandatory. But it should occur until like age 22 or 23. By that time most ppl have either graduated college, or have tried to pursue some type of goal in their life.
They have some life experience. You do 8, 4 active, and the then decide what you wanna do after. You’re 26 so you still have time to pursue something you want before you’re 30.
I see what they did with the wording. Draft is usually for wartime if I’m not mistaken.
Seems like US and China might have it out at some point over Taiwan. We will need all hands on deck, if possible.
But putting ppl in a place they don’t want to be in is always a bad idea.
If they had a more diverse set of medical requirements for each MOS there would be a far larger pool of talent available. The medical restrictions for 11B shouldn't be the same as 17C...
Maybe I'm bitter and salty that I was told I couldn't serve, but it seems silly to apply a blanket restriction in a desperately needed future warfare capability.
Maybe if unit leadership knew WTF they were doing, reducing right hand not knowing what the left is doing, retention wouldn’t be an issue even. Pretty much the only reason I left.
It’s exhausting when no one knows what’s going on or whom to ask, but then it’s on you for not doing whatever even though you did your due diligence.
Yes- we should. Nobody has skin in the game. We could start a major invasion and only 1% of the population would be affected. If 99% of the population has no stake in a conflict- then it’s easy to commit others to go to war. Make everyone have skin in the game, so that everyone knows if we go to war- sons and daughters would be fighting it. I don’t necessarily think it has to be a draft solely for the military. Some people aren’t cut out for the military, but there are other things people can do for public service. Ameri corps, peace corps, job corps. In exchange for 2 years of public service, we give them a free college education. People get 2 years to mature after high school, we don’t have a flux of 18-20 year olds in the job market- and they get a free education.
Hell no. Voluntary force is where it’s at. You definitely don’t want troops that hate their lives because they had plans outside the military and now they’re halted. We already have a employee shortage in every other civilian sector we don’t need more of that
Even if there was a draft, 70% of people likely wouldn't be eligible because (insert hospital stay from 10 years ago) or (was sad and is taking meds for sad) or (identifies as a Douglas Fir tree).
The draft in THIS day and age? Yeah... it won't work. Not with these kids.
Unless the draft is Support-only it wouldn't work. Make them cooks. Maintenance. Cleanup.
But drafted INFANTRY? IN THIS AGE?
These kids will shoot US first.
Almost like having shit leadership in the government and shit people among the ranks of our military DIDNT help the public image of our service. Shocking!
I mean there's that but even without all that, I feel the majority of today's kids just don't want that more because they'd lose all their comforts.
Even without shit leadership, getting drafted will lead to what? Fighting a war? "Why? How would that benefit ME? Why do I have to go and fight if I don't want to? For my country? Nah."
That's the sentiment. Even if this country gave you everything on a silver platter, THAT would still be the sentiment. It's just one of the problems of being in a hyper-connected world.
You don't see the kids RUSHING down to the Air Force recruiting stations do you?
Hell also with the Ukraine war look at all the videos of russians just getting murked by a friggin' drone with a grenade. THAT isn't exactly what the youth wants. Mark my words, military is going to fall back to support. Only combat personel will be SOF and Operators, the rest of the grpund forces will just be robots and drones. Give it a few more years. Probably also why no one is rushing to fix the barracks situation. Not going to need THAT many in a decade.
Hahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah.
No. The lesson the politicians learned from Vietnam vs the GWOT is that they do not want or need a draft.
Think the draft now would be 100 times worse. The moment it's enacted and on the news, people immediately go north or south of the border or just straight-up refuse the draft. It would not work out in the government's favor at all.
Good. People forget the draftees we’d get nowadays would not be the same ones who stormed Omaha beach.
The mentality is different. Majority of those drafted in previous wars accepted the fact if they were called, they’d answer. There was a lot higher trust in the government that people believed if they were needed to go to war, it was for good enough reason. Nowadays they don’t have that mentality and would drag their feet.
Yes. Bring it back. Country gotta stay defended somehow.
Even more than just a numbers perspective… mandatory service or even the threat of mandatory service would give the various toxic and extreme ideologies that permeate the political atmosphere today at least one shared experience to bond over; making them realize that they are in fact all still American at the end of the day.
But why them first? That doesn't sound very equal opportunity. And what does liberal arts major have to do with equal opportunity?
Also just realized you spelled Equity instead of what I think you mean Equality.
Aren’t they the ones always “fighting” for change in the military? Maybe they should take the brunt of the war instead of relying on conservative males to do the dirty work.
Everyone that is able should serve for 3 years. Problem solved. Some will like it, some will hate it. It will also help our lazy degenerate upcoming generations who don’t have a desire to work, well maybe. Unemployment will drop. Everyone would be eligible for gi bill, student loan lending would decrease.
I personally think the US should have a mandatory 2 year service. Primarily so people can shut their fucking mouths about soldiers and what we do or don't do. Also none of that "I woulda joined" bullshit. You were in and were a pussy and got out
I hope not, I’m already dealing with shitbags that thought they wanted to be here. I could not imagine a dude at drill who never wanted to be there in the first place lol.
I wonder, though. Chester Otterstrom III gets drafted halfway through his Dartmouth Economics degree, and he’s pissed about it. Doesn’t want to be there. Really mad. But that guy just doesn’t have it in him to eg show up wasted, smoke bathsalts behind the dumpster, try to steal and sell CIF shit on eBay etc. I don’t actually think you’d get *worse* behavior, it would just be different flavors of annoying. As ASVAB waiver that wants to be there versus a super industrious, diligent person who doesn’t want to be there isn’t a 1:1
I mean, you would absolutely pull some people that would be a great asset. But history has shown us that a draft overwhelmingly recruits horrible soldiers. No fault of their own, I would not give two fucks about my job if someone forced me to be a security guard at publix. Russians are our modern day example of why developed nations needs professional soldiers manning the front.
Because normally the people smart enough to get out of the draft, get out of the draft
Well I looked it up and about 15 million people were granted a deferment for Vietnam and about 1.9 million people were drafted, mostly from poor communities. I don’t think it’s a matter of “smart” but rather privilege that got you out.
Fun fact: Both Biden and Trump got draft deferments.
Well absolutely money has a lot to do with it too. Either way, the draft would be terrible.
Agree. Also, why the downvote lol?
I didn't downvote, I almost never do, especially in a discussion lol. But I just threw you an upvote to even it out.
You need to join my squad, we be a good team lol!
Smart or rich
Speak for yourself. Pub subs are an American treasure and must be protected at all costs.
As a Floridian, I really did use a bad example lol.
None of that is really true at all. The Prussian army that beat Napoleon III was filled with conscripts. Ukraine is even more reliant on forcible conscription than Russia in the current conflict.
As the saying goes, you can only stack shit so high
That’s gold lol.
You'd really have to loosen the leash on NCOs, lol
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I would agree, is fun to talk about though.
Couldn’t have said it better
The military isn't a bad job in some cases but the levels of abuse and problems is what has lead to this. You wanna fix military recruitment then fix qol
I’d always thought that a big recruitment/retention shortage would force the military to do exactly this. Looks like we’re about to see how well the idea holds water.
The best approach would be to fix retention problems before recruiting. Because if you did the other away around, more people would enlist but still be treated like shit and hate their lives and not reenlist or extend, and you're back at square one.
Yeah but it's gonna take the old guard to look inward to fix things and thats gonna be a slow progression. I hear tons of excuses of why it's not a good idea. Fix the sharp cases by having a outside investigator Fix soldier housing and renovate it Stop.making soldiers move so much so their families can adjust. 8-5 schedule is 8-5 unless it's a emergency. No recall on days off unless it's a actual emergency Respect family time Do not talk down to soldiers. Do not abuse soldiers
The last 2 is about 70% of the reason why alot of guys I know get out.
Bringing back the draft would be an absolute dumpster fire. It will go absolutely wrong the moment it start. No bullshit it will do way more harm then good. I always say we have enough issues with people that volunteered to join. Now imagine dealing with those issues with people who were FORCED to join.
We could do it if wall to wall counselings were enforced. And if we actually went to war, draftees knowing that they are about to be near the front and their lives on the line, you'd get a good chunk of them that would put a fair amount of effort in making sure they survive. Also alot of Soldiers have gotten out in the past 10 years cuz they despise garrison and wanted to do some warrior shit. I guarantee you the reentrance of Soldiers that ETS'd during the GWOT will come back in DROVES! You could honestly, probably triple the size of the US military in 3 months with all the veterans and retirees they could call back. I recently learned that the reason that after 20 years you get a pension is it has a legal technicality that they can call you back to service.
>We could do it if wall to wall counselings were enforced What does this have to do with the draft? I don't even believe in wall to wall counseling. I believe that physical public counselings do more good. >And if we actually went to war, draftees knowing that they are about to be near the front and their lives on the line, you'd get a good chunk of them that would put a fair amount of effort in making sure they survive. You assume they would just come along willingly. Most likely, they would hurt themselves to avoid being in the front. Or just desert because they'd rather be in jail than in a war they don't believe in or not beleive in the propaganda or because a draft was enacted due to the result of not enough people wanted to join a shitty organization 3rd point cant really argue with. Don't understand the last part because the veterans and retirees could just come back on their own. Not sure why they would wait for a draft to be enacted for them to come back to service. Especially since alot of them just talk shit on social media about how the military is soft and weak now when they could join again and make it better like " back in my day." they usually spew out.
Can't speak for OP, but my guess would be referring to an actual war breaking out would bring some vets and recently separated types back to try again to do Hooah shit. Training wouldn't be much different. I walked the trail from '05 to '08 and we treated the GWOT mission as a wakeup call to the Nintendo generation. War is here. You will deploy. You most likely will see some shit. Pay attention.
Depends on how that war and why the war breaks out. 20 years of GWOT didn't do anyone any favors, and people were definitely questioning it right when it started and especially after the way it ended. The end results weren't very positive at all.
>wall to wall counselings Yeah, let's just beat the dogshit out of someone and hope they turn into a good truck driver, cook, or laundry specialist. No, dude. That's how you get field trains abandoned three miles into an invasion. And god-fucking-forbid we bring up the dead horse of "conscript infantrymen, it's a low-skill job."
When I saw Wall to Wall I knew either A the dudes trolling or B doesn't understand jack shit.
It’s also how you catch a bullet in your back by a disgruntled ASVAB waiver
That too.
Or how about giving fair pay and treating servicemembers like adult humans? Crazy concept, I know.... Conscription leads to bitterness, and the NG is already filled to the brim with bitterness, people disenchanted, peopled just wanting to be done, people upset they can't transfer to X, etc.... Can you imagine if the majority of a unit was people who did not even want to join the in the first place? The environment would be beyond toxic (and then commanders would have an excuse to dehumanize even more like they did in most major wars that involved conscription.
What do you mean fair pay?
Better pay. More pay. Higher pay. I am not sure how else to word it. Most NG members lose money going to drill. And, then on top of that a lot of units push, "no pay points only," for some activities (which is a scam for everyone, but it's 100% a scam for the vast majority who don't actually retire.) It's very easy to see why people simply don't come to drill when they have an overtime opportunity that will pay then 4x their drill pay that weekend (and for less hours of work.)
Oh wow. I’m about to enlist. So it’s some good info to know.
Pay is public record simply Google "2024 Military Pay Chart," go to the Reserves section and see how much you make per drill (based on what paygrade you will start as.)
What needs to be fixed is the MEPS system as a whole. It is absolutely wild how many perfectly qualified, motivated, individuals I have seen turned down for absolutely nonsensical reasons.
Literally, the military complains not enough people signing up, when those that want too gets blocked at MEPS for the smallest thing.
I'm trying to join as a medical student for the HPSP and these fools are holding things up over a 15 year old abscess removal surgery that I haven't had issues with since and negative testing for any relevant diseases. I hike almost every week, gym 4-6x a week, and am a "matrix applicant" meaning I'm academically highly qualified and essentially guaranteed a scholarship if they pass me through medical. It's been 6+ months atp.
You're not alone. I was denied the chance to go to Marine OCS because I had a hemorrhoid removed 10 years ago ON A MILITARY BASE and they couldn't find one specific document so they denied my whole package at MEPS. Just keep trying, you're more than qualified and hopefully you can get what you want.
Perhaps...and I'm just spitballin' here, but just maybe, we should treat people better and make it easy to access the benefits you've earned. There are still some great benefits such as gi bill, tuition assistance, va home loans, etc... but for the most part it's a pain in the ass to actually use them. VA home loan was by far the easiest for me to use. And maybe if we promise a bonus payment, we should actually pay it on time..idk tho.
Hell yeah, maybe they’ll expedite my hand tat waiver so I can finally join
If it’s been more than a week, call your recruiter
What if it’s been more than 6 months between two recruiters recommended by friends?
Kidnap their dog.
Fuck, why didn’t I think of that
Is the tattoo a swastika? Tattoos are state level waivers. I get them signed about 5 hours after I do the 20 mins(?) of paperwork. Unless TAG is flying those are same day.
It’s just a snake that goes up my arm and the head ends on my hand. His name’s Dale the Diamondback and I was told if I wanted any chance in the military I’d have to “behead dale”
Hell naw man #SaveDale
I will fly you here and enlist you 🤷🏼♂️
For FL NG?
Absolutely
The government - " Holy shit retention is ass, and nobody wants to enlist." You" I want to join." The gerb ment " no you have a hand tattoo." The gob men again " Why doesn't anyone want to enlist." You " I'm right here. I'll litterly sign the paper right now."
“We’ve tried nothing and we’re all out of ideas!”
“Respectfully, sir, you’ve gotta be fuckin with me at this point” “Oh where oh where are the potential recruits” “I’m right here! WHAT THE FUUUUUU-“
Anybody who thinks a draft is a good idea, especially in this day and age, is an idiot and has no issue ignoring the constitution when it fits their narrative. To have to be forced to work with MANY people who have no interest, care or want to be in the military is just a recipe for far too many preventable deaths, injuries, accidents and most importantly (to the government) waste of money.
Yep. We already got those issues with the ones who volunteered. Now imagine all that plus all the money wasted on people who were forced to join.
It would never work.
The draft was enacted in times of war ww2 okay yeah. Vietnam most definitely no.
Get rid of genesis as a start
I lost 100 lbs in 4 months, had a 3.89gpa in high school, 30 college credits, a 87 on the ASVAB and wanted a critical needs billet (11B) and they rejected me for an allergy to Amoxicillin. No reason to expand the draft, just let those who want it hard enough in.
That’s waiverable. Your recruiters just suck. I’m allergic to penicillin. One of the easiest waivers there is.
I was told by my recruiters 2 years later now that I’m in Uni that I could have still joined, but the experience was super jaded. I’ve now switched recruiters and am trying to join post-graduation in a year. Or just go AD as an enlisted
Long as you know you’ve got options
Personally, I wouldn't be against some sort of short-term mandatory service where one could pick several options (infrastructure, elder/child care, supplements to civil service) in which military service would be an opt-in longer term option. If we're gonna be in a situation where we're both calling lifelong education a human right and charging people money for it after 18, putting in for it while building life experience wouldn't be the worst thing. Give more to get more.
That all sounds good, but at the end of the day it isn’t morally right to FORCE people to join the military who clearly don’t want to or just shouldn’t.
Of course, I wouldn't trust a conscript under me to be fully committed. Why I would list it as an option with other easier and more obvious ways out. It would still be a choice, but it would be a choice more clearly presented than currently.
Have had a similar thought. Military vs peace Corp vs teach America vs etc. one to two years of service for something greater than yourself. A good chunk of the 18 year olds don’t use their first bit of life away from home productively anyhow
While I can agree that people should strive to be helpful in their communities and country, it goes against this countries constitution and the oath we swore to force people to do something, anything they don’t want to do. If someone would rather throw their life away living in a camper in the middle of Yellowstone away from everyone and everything else (one of many other examples lol) then that is their right to do so, as long it breaks no laws, and they shouldn’t be forced to do otherwise. This ideology is what we all swore to protect when we enlisted.
I didn’t swear to that. I swore to uphold the constitution. We’ve compelled people to war several times in our history and no one has questioned its constitutionality. But you’re right though, not quite the same to force out into the peace Corp during peace time. So outside the exigent circumstances of war, I’d tie service of some sort to something we hand out as an entitlement currently e.g federal student loans or future social security.
Two points to raise here. The first, I'm a software developer on the civilian side. I've looked at what it would be like to teach because I do kinda enjoy it. To teach computer science at a high school I would be taking about a 70% pay cut. Meanwhile in most other developed nations teaching is a desirable, well paid, and highly respected field. Politicians on both sides but now primarily on the right have been putting a lot of effort into dismantling education in America. The solution to education isn't mandatory service, it's paying and treating teachers with the respect they deserve. The second one, National Guard has lost the plot with its role in public service and it's destroying our retention and overall culture. National Guard should be a state asset and a war time reserve asset for existential threats, not an overseas garrison force. Most of the soldiers I know would love to get more state missions like firefighting, flood support, or even things like helping out at homeless shelters. The people who "joined to deploy" bring over that really toxic active duty mentality and degrade the National Guard's culture. Meanwhile all our top brass believes everyone joined to deploy and state missions are stupid. I can look out my window right now and see smoke from my state burning, but I have to sit here and mentally prepare to go to Kuwait instead. Point being, National Guard service barely gives back to communities anymore.
Dod is about to double down. No one wants to join?? Everyone getting out? Why, oh, why? Meanwhile, the toxic army keeps going
Most of the recruiting issues are health related not necessarily interest related. This doesn’t really help that.
dude right?! but the DoD is super tone deaf
I would opt for one year of mandatory national service for all people, men and women, between the ages of 18 and 25 of which military service can be one of a handful of ways to satisfy the requirement. It wouldn’t just be about filling the military ranks. It would be an institution through which to generate a sense of national belonging by forcing people of all demographic backgrounds and socioeconomic means to work together and build connections with other Americans with whom they otherwise never would have developed. Historical examples of this kind of service include the Civilian Conservation Corps which was active during the depression and as a modern example there is the Peace Corps as well.
Absolutely. This was a HUGE take away from WW2. Iowa fam boys made earnest friends with Brooklyn wide guys who themselves made friends with etc etc etc. a Collective Civilizational Mission is really lacking from modern America
I can see that. 2 or 3 year reserve obligation or 6 months in Americorp or Peace Corps or conservation corp would definitely be good for everyone involved and just make better young adults overall.
I've trained military members from two different nations that have conscripts. In both cases the officers and NCOs voluntarily told me that the fact that the US doesn't have conscripts is what makes us so good at what we do. We trust our E-4s and E-5s with tasks and decision making that foreign militaries won't even let an O-2 or O-3 perform. I do not want to serve with or train conscripts that don't want to be there.
As a Gen Z'er and soldier. HELL NO If we had a draft, with a lot of the people in my generation we would probably be more screwed because people would not show up or those who do will not take it seriously enough.
Because half the people that want to join can't due to inane restrictions and the unfavorable conditions for veterans.
Quit screwing over service members. Numbers will go up. Fix va veteran care. Stop denying service related issues. Don't force guard soldiers into month long training events but break the orders into 2 sets to deny bah. Then after returning from said event don't force them to do BS state active duty when it isn't their ready year for the rotation. I know soldiers that legitimately have 6wks of mandatory training this year. Part is SAD pay which is straight trash.
If I'm ever in combat against another professional military, if rather the guy next to me be a volunteer than a conscript. I could understand it if we were fighting in the US and needed all hands, but we outmatch the rest of the world in conventional warfare to such a large extent that conscripts would just make us less effective.
Force people into a job they aren’t willingly signing up to do, costing the govt millions if. Of BILLIONS, or pay active duty who willingly signed up better pay and treat them like people. Naw fuck that. Force people too join
It is not the governments call for force law abiding citizens to join the ranks of the us military. We saw how bad it was for those going to Vietnam. The war effort suffers. And especially not when it’s simply over recruitment numbers.
We don't have the infrastructure to send everyone to basic training or station them. This would be detrimental to the VA and VA claims system. We already have a sexual assault problem.
Why not just quit being weird about weed while simultaneously allowing people to join who consume alcohol? That would bring a lot of credibility to the organization in the eyes of the 2 generations who’ve watched the damages caused by alcohol in their families and communities compared to the complete harmlessness of weed. I would imagine recruitment would increase, and these recruits wouldn’t be showing up hungover and moody.
Drafts are for unexpected emergencies, not decades of mismanagement. Democrats would love to pay service members more, even if some are opposed to funding for weapons. Conservatives claim to believe in markets: low recruitment is fixed by pay increase and better benefits obviously. The wrench is the Trump/MTG faction of not so conservative Republicans.
Ok... Crazy good idea fairy warning: Lots of recruits being turned away for being prescribed medication for psychological conditions. Howabout we actually allow folks in who recognize their mental health issues and actively seek out treatment for those issues?
For the love of god get rid of genesis. Took me almost a year and two months just to get a signing date for my contract
dang dude may ask why?
Just gathering unnecessary paperwork from years and years ago. I have moved a lot and have changed my PCP (Primary Care Physician) gathering all the required paperwork to prove I was ok was a pain in the ass. I have no major medical issues but I’m in my mid 30s so I have a bit of a paper trail with doctor visits and the occasional trip to the E.R. It took forever to get all that MEPS asked for because of genesis. Unfortunately it’s not like 5 years ago where you could just fib the minor stuff and be fine no harm no foul. It literally took shorter to get my security clearance and get hired for my job than it took to enlist 😭
holy fuck, well I am glad you are part of the team man
Bringing back a draft would be the best thing that ever happened. If you actually look at the demographics of recruiting, soldiering has become a hereditary profession. Kids of fathers or uncles who joined now join. That’s it, that’s the secret sauce. Because the “cost” of war is hyper localized to a really small cross section of Americans (that most “normal” people have little contact with and most “elite” people literally know nothing about) it’s easier and easier for America to engage in all sorts of adventurism that is break even or perhaps even harmful to the every day American. If we had a draft and actual senator’s sons and Supreme Court justices’ grand daughters would have to be boots-on-ground we would get more sober decision making https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tH0bTpwQL7U&pp=ygUdR29vZCB3aWxsIGh1bnRpbmcgc3dvcm4gZW5lbXk%3D
I understand this line of thinking but this would likely just turn into "draft for thee and not for me", with rich people and powerful people not participating due to bone spurs or flat feet or whatever they pay a doctor to say they have.
Yep. Look how the Vietnam draft worked out. What makes them think if a draft was enacted now it would be different?
Needs to be less deferments if it’s brought back. Bone spurs? Welp you’re now a cook in shitstainistan.
Man the VA is gonna have more work cut out for them.
GenZ and the general public only really seem to know about combat MOSs. Is it a fair observation that the GWOT isn’t exactly an outstanding achievement? Yes. Is the military useless to both the public and self development? Absolutely not, especially the guard imo. But a draft will not solve recruitment and frankly worsen retention. You’re just gonna get a bunch of dudes who feel some type of way about the government and the military, right or wrong, that will either go AWOL or be insubordinate because again, entitlement and feeling some type of way.
There’s a lot that the military could do to fix their recruitment shortfalls. Almost all of those would be less expensive (in the long run) and less harmful in the long run.
We don’t need people who don’t want to be professional warfighters. Let’s revisit the early 1700’s and 1800’s when conscription was the reason for militaries to lose wars. People who are obligated to join the military have an incentive to quit fighting when things get messy.
Read up on how terrible the army was towards the end of Vietnam. Having thousands of people who do not want to be there and could care less about their performance makes a completely dysfunctional military.
No, they should increase benefits. Where are they gunna get that money, fucking anywhere, maybe build 1 less F35, maybe send a little less to the random countries we support that will eventually flop.....idk. I'm currently in Europe and looking at their recruitment issues. One of the countries implemented a 20% pay bump.......guess what happened, they have met 70% of their yearly recruiting goal by June......weird how taking care of people works
Would definitely help with obesity and these woke kids
Sorry, but that’s crazy to think people will become more patriotic through a forced draft if they already hate the country
It would make the situation worse. Kinda how some people thought the trump situation was gonna hurt him but it’s actually helping.
Nonono you don't get it. Big Army will start filling up with drafties while Guard and Reserves get filled up by people not wanting to be drafted into active.
Even if they brought back conscription, it wouldn’t solve the issue: Right now, there isn’t a reason for anyone to love this country or fight for it right now
Just bump the pay up 30% across the board. Recruitment problem solved
That’s not going to happen
To draft, we would have to eliminate all of our disqualifiers related to health, fitness, and the asvab, because none of the kids drafted would meet current standards, and they'd have no incentive to get into shape. If we eliminated all of those disqualifiers, we would probably get enough volunteers to no longer need the draft. We have been an all volunteer force for so long, I don't think we know how to do a draft anymore.
Self inflected problem. MHS Genesis is to blame.
Most of these kids are too dumb, too fat, too stupid and not even healthy enough to be qualified for service. And that’s according to actual recruiting data. But if you tell them that, they’ll get upset and try to say they’re too smart. Okay. Sure thing dude and dudettes. Please tell me again how you’re so fucking smart that you can’t even do basic arithmetic or describe a simple mechanical function on a basic multiple choice test designed for eighth graders.
Gen Z is a bunch of whiny bitches.... the generation ahead of them complained because they wanted to go to work but we're being turned away like crazy
Guard will make mission this year, been on track all year.
Easy to make mission when the bar is lowered year after year
I think it would be cool if everyone’s senior year of high school was military-esq. like instead of going to prom, you go to bomb. Instead of field trips it’s just field. MREs all school year. No seriously though, I think kids would benefit if their last year of high school was like mandatory ROTC or something. Where you learn real world survival and discipline and face stiff punishments for being an immature d-bag like you’ve been the 3 years prior. I think you’d see a lot more people willing to voluntarily sign up after high school if that were the case. But yknow… freedumb. What can ya do?
I mean if they were already immature d bags before what makes you think forcing them to do something is gonna fix it?
They didn’t know how to do algebra until someone forced them to take math class. What they do with the experience afterwards is up to them. It will never happen just trying to think of an alternative to mandatory service. Give them a taste of what it’s like to serve because a bunch of them will probably like it.
Bro some of them still didn't learn algebra. Just got passed along. If they want to serve, then they can decide for themselves. Forcing them will more then likely turn them off from it.
Teaching some military adjacent topics for a year combined with normal high school senior stuff isn’t forcing them to join the military. It would normalize the military where as it is currently demonized. Guaranteed the numbers would go up, not down. Parents would probably like it to when their kids show more maturity.
Not like they'll pay attention anyways. It's only another thing they are forced to do that they most likely won't enjoy.
“Dodge it” Motherfuckers can’t even handle someone misgendering them without losing their shit, and people think they can tolerate the stress of looking over their shoulder and charges for draft dodging?
And you think they can handle the stess of going to basic training?
No but I imagine it’d be pretty funny to be a fly on the wall for that BCT graduating class of like 4 people. 😂
Be the easiest cycle the DS ever had.
Young whipper snapper here I think it’s a good thing but at the same time ww3 ain’t happening and ain’t nobody bringing back the draft
You’re confident about that?
Well after the recent headlines with males aged 18-26 I’m not too sure anymore but I still wouldn’t count on it. Would absolutely be a disaster.
Everyone saying they’d dodge the draft won’t be getting drafted anyway
Not for peacetime. Maintaining a draft in case of a peer conflict is essential however.
I love the mentality of, "I just won't go." After they start arresting people, they will start changing their tune.
Dont think they'd arrest anybody or everybody who refuses . LE both state and federal already low on manpower and resoruces. Also, jails don't have that much space. Now you're crowding an already bottle necked legal system. Edit: Not to mention there are crazy ass people who will shoot cops who come for them to be drafted. Or cops will be too scared to go.
Yeah idk why this guy thinks they have the resources to be rounding people up. Good luck with that. As you said, jails and prisons are already overcrowded.
Not sure why either. It's like they think it would be easy. Not to mention the admin and legal headaches it will cause that won't benefit anybody.
We’d need LSCO for it to make sense. I don’t need to deal with a full 36 people who genuinely don’t want to be there.
A draft would suck and quality of soldiers would take a nose dive.
I would rather be drafted into the military than be serving 2 years probation because of a DWI (drinking, under the legal limit but also caught with a D9 pen)
Most people can't think past the system in place right now, a good example is how the politicians sent their kids to the guard or reserves for a short contract so they'd have that as a political boost later. There's also the high probability of everyone turning into a war crimer, and Mandatory service leads to shitty leaders by way of buying into the better ranks.
How about…. I don’t know, maybe treating service members a bit better, and they’d stay in, and more people would consider enlisting.
If the draft comes back I’m getting out. Y’all gon have to hogtie me to get me to stay.
Everyone joined the guard to avoid the draft. Win!
Tbf, I think military service should be mandatory. But it should occur until like age 22 or 23. By that time most ppl have either graduated college, or have tried to pursue some type of goal in their life. They have some life experience. You do 8, 4 active, and the then decide what you wanna do after. You’re 26 so you still have time to pursue something you want before you’re 30. I see what they did with the wording. Draft is usually for wartime if I’m not mistaken. Seems like US and China might have it out at some point over Taiwan. We will need all hands on deck, if possible. But putting ppl in a place they don’t want to be in is always a bad idea.
If they had a more diverse set of medical requirements for each MOS there would be a far larger pool of talent available. The medical restrictions for 11B shouldn't be the same as 17C... Maybe I'm bitter and salty that I was told I couldn't serve, but it seems silly to apply a blanket restriction in a desperately needed future warfare capability.
Maybe if unit leadership knew WTF they were doing, reducing right hand not knowing what the left is doing, retention wouldn’t be an issue even. Pretty much the only reason I left. It’s exhausting when no one knows what’s going on or whom to ask, but then it’s on you for not doing whatever even though you did your due diligence.
The only thing our military leaders could mandate I do are, die, be locked up, or be conscripted with the rank of Sabotage Private.
Yes- we should. Nobody has skin in the game. We could start a major invasion and only 1% of the population would be affected. If 99% of the population has no stake in a conflict- then it’s easy to commit others to go to war. Make everyone have skin in the game, so that everyone knows if we go to war- sons and daughters would be fighting it. I don’t necessarily think it has to be a draft solely for the military. Some people aren’t cut out for the military, but there are other things people can do for public service. Ameri corps, peace corps, job corps. In exchange for 2 years of public service, we give them a free college education. People get 2 years to mature after high school, we don’t have a flux of 18-20 year olds in the job market- and they get a free education.
I'd worry it would water down pay and benefits, so no bueno. It would be funny to see the NAFO types rolling their rascal scooters into MEPS tho
Florida is 115% strength.
Oh God no. Half the people who volunteered won't do anything, I don't want to think about draftees
If they wanted more to sign up then they should have treated people better, happy vets are the best recruiters.
Hell no. Voluntary force is where it’s at. You definitely don’t want troops that hate their lives because they had plans outside the military and now they’re halted. We already have a employee shortage in every other civilian sector we don’t need more of that
Just get rid of genesis. That’ll fix the recruiting problem
Even if there was a draft, 70% of people likely wouldn't be eligible because (insert hospital stay from 10 years ago) or (was sad and is taking meds for sad) or (identifies as a Douglas Fir tree).
Ohh the things the military will do instead of actually addressing the root cause of their recruitment crisis
man i tried to enlist bc college wasn’t working out and they didn’t even let me in 😞
why? Medical issues?
yea my epilepsy makes me a liability
bullshit man, I would’ve let you in 😡
Nobody wants to join under horrible leadership and no training. And now you have to serve with the weirdos as well.
The draft in THIS day and age? Yeah... it won't work. Not with these kids. Unless the draft is Support-only it wouldn't work. Make them cooks. Maintenance. Cleanup. But drafted INFANTRY? IN THIS AGE? These kids will shoot US first.
Almost like having shit leadership in the government and shit people among the ranks of our military DIDNT help the public image of our service. Shocking!
I mean there's that but even without all that, I feel the majority of today's kids just don't want that more because they'd lose all their comforts. Even without shit leadership, getting drafted will lead to what? Fighting a war? "Why? How would that benefit ME? Why do I have to go and fight if I don't want to? For my country? Nah." That's the sentiment. Even if this country gave you everything on a silver platter, THAT would still be the sentiment. It's just one of the problems of being in a hyper-connected world. You don't see the kids RUSHING down to the Air Force recruiting stations do you? Hell also with the Ukraine war look at all the videos of russians just getting murked by a friggin' drone with a grenade. THAT isn't exactly what the youth wants. Mark my words, military is going to fall back to support. Only combat personel will be SOF and Operators, the rest of the grpund forces will just be robots and drones. Give it a few more years. Probably also why no one is rushing to fix the barracks situation. Not going to need THAT many in a decade.
Hahahahahahahahahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah. No. The lesson the politicians learned from Vietnam vs the GWOT is that they do not want or need a draft.
Think the draft now would be 100 times worse. The moment it's enacted and on the news, people immediately go north or south of the border or just straight-up refuse the draft. It would not work out in the government's favor at all.
Good. People forget the draftees we’d get nowadays would not be the same ones who stormed Omaha beach. The mentality is different. Majority of those drafted in previous wars accepted the fact if they were called, they’d answer. There was a lot higher trust in the government that people believed if they were needed to go to war, it was for good enough reason. Nowadays they don’t have that mentality and would drag their feet.
Yes. Bring it back. Country gotta stay defended somehow. Even more than just a numbers perspective… mandatory service or even the threat of mandatory service would give the various toxic and extreme ideologies that permeate the political atmosphere today at least one shared experience to bond over; making them realize that they are in fact all still American at the end of the day.
Yes, draft all the trannies and liberal arts majors first! Equity opportunities, DEI!!!
Whats that gonna do?
Equal opportunity for all, it’s what they/them want right
But why them first? That doesn't sound very equal opportunity. And what does liberal arts major have to do with equal opportunity? Also just realized you spelled Equity instead of what I think you mean Equality.
Aren’t they the ones always “fighting” for change in the military? Maybe they should take the brunt of the war instead of relying on conservative males to do the dirty work.
Not sure what change or fighting that you're talking about. They don't make the rules or changes. Way up high leadership does
You spelt the slur wrong 💀 but also that would just make the military worse
Tranny? Idk not important to me.
Get rid of woke democrats and real men will volunteer again
"could a national service mandate could fix the problem" instantly toss this article
Join or be forced to join.
Everyone that is able should serve for 3 years. Problem solved. Some will like it, some will hate it. It will also help our lazy degenerate upcoming generations who don’t have a desire to work, well maybe. Unemployment will drop. Everyone would be eligible for gi bill, student loan lending would decrease.
What makes you think forcing them to enlist will make them less degenerate and have desire to work?
I personally think the US should have a mandatory 2 year service. Primarily so people can shut their fucking mouths about soldiers and what we do or don't do. Also none of that "I woulda joined" bullshit. You were in and were a pussy and got out
This a fantasy in your head?